Can't Right Their Wrongs feat. Maci Bookout & Natalie Gard

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The time is here.

Are y'all nervous like we were?

No, I'm not nervous.

I'm more excited.

And we've been waiting for this for a long time.

A long time.

Yeah, yeah.

We're excited.

Yeah, so I'm excited to have you guys on.

Kate and Ty break it down.

We're just going to break some stuff down.

That's what we do.

We're pretty good at it.

Maybe

dance a little.

I could talk.

Maybe a little jiggle.

Maybe a little turkey tour.

okay

but

you know maybe one day i appreciate guys coming on though i really do i'm like i'm like i feel honored i'm like you got macy you got natalie just met you

know we're thank you very excited i'm interested to know what y'all want to know about us well first off how did you guys like get connected like what happened yeah so i am in radio that was my that's always been my profession we actually went to chattanooga state together but at different times but in the same program.

So I obviously grew up loving Macy,

watching the show.

Oh, so you watched the show before?

Yeah,

she would always tell me when we first really got to know each other, she's like, you're the reason I didn't get pregnant.

as a teenager.

Literally, I was scared out of my mind.

I'm glad to hear you.

That is why I did not lose my virginity in high school.

But so I've always been in radio and she was at an event who

Big Al was there.

And I was like, hey, do you want to meet him, get a picture with him?

And so they did.

And I just emailed her business account with the picture because I figured she'd want it.

And literally a few months later, she was like, hey,

I want to talk about PCOS on the radio because we both, I didn't know it at the time, but we both suffer from PCOS.

Yeah, PCOS Awareness Day.

Okay, so you guys both have PCOS and that's kind of how the whole little bridge happened.

Yeah, so she came on my radio show.

We did a segment.

It was on it was on the show.

And then a few years went by and we just stayed in touch on social media, really.

And I just put out on socials one day.

I was like, would anyone be interested in a true crime podcast based out of Chattanooga, Tennessee?

Like, would you listen to it?

Would you listen to it?

Yeah.

And I was just going to do it.

And she commented and she was like, call me right now.

And so I called her.

And that's kind of how it was born.

I'm like, uh, I'll be interested in it.

I'll do it.

Yeah.

Well, plus, yeah, like, you're just like me.

I'm very intrigued by the whole like murder mystery stuff and unsolved cases and stuff like that.

So yeah, I'd be jumping on that train too.

And then I'm pretty sure our professor that we both had in college like commented something on it and was like something along the lines of like, oh, I see something's in the work works, like knew that that's what when I said call me.

He was like, he already knew.

He's like, uh-oh, this is going to happen.

We were getting together.

Yeah,

for sure.

That's been awesome, too.

Like they, when we first started out, they any equipment from the media technologies department that they have, like if they're upgrading, they'll always, like, we can just be like, hey, do you have any of these you're not using?

Like, they've been very, very helpful and supportive, which is awesome.

This means we're, were we good students or bad students?

I think that means that's what I'm saying.

I was going to say, your professor is, yeah, yeah, I think that means good.

Yeah.

Also, that's funny.

So just through like networking, you know, networking,

networking, networking, networking.

I kind of like that.

Doesn't it sound better?

People will tend to know that I have issue with like some bigger.

I can't help it.

I gotta listen to it.

It's just compartmentalizing.

Yeah, you know, it's like my brain doesn't work that great.

Like, I need to slow down and, you know, I she does a lot of Siri.

Oh, for sure.

She'll be like type in.

She'll be like,

reorganize.

I struggle.

What was Elling earlier?

Acidity?

Yeah,

exactly.

Great example.

I can't speak sometimes, you know, just the big words or whatever.

So that's cool.

So through all that, then it's kind of nice.

And you have experience in radio.

So you kind of like, you know, I mean, you think about it, podcasting is pretty much radio on steroids.

Right, right, right, yeah.

So I mean, you guys have a little bit of.

I'm radio, she's TV, you together, made a great podcast.

Podcasting is exactly what we both do with a little less regulation.

Yeah,

and limitations.

That's funner.

Like, definitely.

You know, especially it's kind of nice too to just like do something outside of the TV world, you know, that's different.

Yes.

And we can talk more in depth about certain things.

I think that's what really drove me and Ty to want to do it is because we can go more in depth in certain situations of our lives.

And, you know, I mean, yours is different because you're covering cases.

But in the same way, people didn't know you were into

crime as much as you are.

So now you're able to kind of showcase with the podcast platform that, hey, you didn't know this about me, but you know, here I am.

Like, it's awesome.

I'm a queen sleuther.

Well, I can tell you right now, if you, you know, if there's any rumors you need to squash, you can always hit Ty and I up and we'll just keep bringing you on.

Yeah, there you go.

Anytime.

You know, because

those are there's plenty of those.

Yeah, and because I mean, you think about it, like, we've been on a TV journey with each other for 16, 17 years.

So, you know, we've been friends for that long.

Literally.

We have been through hell and bad.

Everything, yeah.

You know, and it's so it's, it's cool to be able to do something different

with you.

And yeah, together.

Yes.

It's really cool.

Meeting each other in a different,

whether we're in pajamas eating pizza or filming.

Right.

You know, like either or.

So this is like cool doing.

doing something different.

And it's one of those things where we, it's the only thing that we, like, no one else knows this experience of being on TV for 15 years, raising kids.

Which I have to say, it's like one of those things where it's like people don't get that we are doing the most triggering, vulnerable, precious thing

with the world just criticizing and literally focal pointing on our parenting, which is the most, I mean, nothing brings out your claws more than someone judging your kids or judging your parenting style.

So it's like,

I don't think people get the scope of intensity and how hard.

it really is.

Yeah, our show is.

That's all it's about.

And to remain authentic throughout as well.

Like knowing that just helping one person makes up for all the 500,000 dick wads that are hating on you you know what I mean like just to help the one person or to be relatable for one person yeah but it takes a special like I don't know perseverance character or whatever to be able to just kind of you know eliminate or try to like filter out 500 negative comments just to get the the one positive point across to somebody else.

Like it's difficult.

I mean, it takes a special kind of tenacity to be able to like handle all of that because it's difficult, especially about parenting.

It's like nothing gets you more fired up than someone saying, judging your parenting.

And when you think about it, that's what our whole jobs have been.

Yeah, they've been judging our parenting.

That's why our job requires the judgment of viewers.

And it's like, yeah, it's hard.

That's why most of the time I say to people, like, well, thank God they

thank God that these are not your children.

Yeah.

And they're mine.

Right?

Exactly.

It's my job, not yours.

I have, I feel like she and I, I was, when you're not in the TV world and

then you do something like this, I remember having to tell her, like,

stay

out of the comment section.

Don't read it.

Don't read it.

And I fell for it a few times.

And we had conversations.

And it's like, no, no, no.

Didn't have it.

Well, it's different than radio.

You don't have someone like on Instagram, like right away being able to comment on stuff that you're passionate about.

Well, and also, I mean,

I come as, you know, a co-host, a partner, and now like a best friend to her.

But in the beginning, it's like, oh, by the way, I also come with a shitload of haters.

Welcome.

Welcome.

Well, how did you navigate that?

Did you see it?

Just

trial and error.

She would be like, don't look at the comments.

And I would obviously look at them because

I am.

I'm going to try and delete them before she could see them.

Yeah.

And just, she's just like, no, all press is good press.

It doesn't matter.

They're still talking about you.

And most of the time, they have no idea what they're actually talking about.

Well, it's coming from ignorance, which is why I feel like doing doing a podcast is important because if you see a really heavy opinion out there, a public opinion, you can correct it or give more data, information about why that's happening, which I feel like is kind of important in our journey with Teen Mom because it's like now we get five minutes of screen time each episode.

It's one of those things where now we have to like, okay, how do we fill in the blanks?

Yeah, because people deserve.

to have the blanks filled in, I feel like, because they've been so, you know, loyal to our story and following it.

Like we have a, I feel like a duty to like, you guys got a quarter percent of the truth.

Here's the rest of it.

Yeah, or like if you're going, everyone is going to have an opinion.

Yeah.

But it's like, here, let me give you all of it so you can actually form an educated opinion.

It's still, I don't have to like your opinion.

Right.

But I want you to have all of the

get all of it first.

Then tell me how you really feel.

You're obviously not in TV world.

So all the comments, all the negative stuff, like, I mean, that's hard.

That's hard to handle it was very difficult at first just trying to trying to you know when you get a notification you want to know what it is you want to open your phone and see what somebody said and it was especially when we first came out we want to hear what we're doing right what we're doing wrong right and then some of it's just pure hate and trying to get past it like hate with no purpose like you're not you're not critic you're not giving any constructive criticism you're literally just typing this to try to hurt me which is why i kind of think like like if you're on Reddit, you're probably a piece of shit.

For sure.

Like, I mean, I don't know why you'd go to an anonymous forum page to talk shit about random people.

And I didn't even know about Reddit until like a year ago.

And someone's like, oh, yeah, there's a whole.

It was a few years ago, but yeah.

Yeah, there's a whole teen mom like thing.

And I'm like, oh, well, that's weird.

No, I can't.

Random motherfucker.

I mean, go on my Instagram and talk shit to me.

Yeah,

why are you hiding your little in that corner?

I don't understand what you're doing over there.

You ain't got no power over there.

It's anonymous.

So I thought it was weird.

I often wonder why

people will argue in my comment section with people that they don't know about someone they don't know yep it makes absolute no sense at all who has time for that that's what I'm saying like I can only handle my own bullshit I can't be worried about somebody else's and I never once actually commented like I hate you mother like I never ever I never even had the urge to comment something like negative or bad so I don't really get the ever I don't either because if I see something if I see something I don't like or I disagree with I just keep scrolling yeah I think what it is though it's it's this easy access to collective like tribal oh I find all these people that share my same opinion so now I feel validated and it's like it's almost it's toxic though because if you stay in that little bubble like a reddit page you're not you're not gaining any outside perspective you're not gaining any you know deeper context you're literally just confirmation bias, and you're just doing it to yourself.

Like, I'm confused on what the purpose of it is and why you feel the need to

go hang out with a bunch of people who

are full of hate.

That you're only connected with hate.

You're not connected with, oh, I love the show.

So you're connected by the criticizing of people you don't know.

Yeah, I think it's some sort of validation that they might

one must not be getting in their

real life.

And she told me that.

She's like, these people are commenting on things that they'd have no idea.

And that, I mean, that's so sad, you know?

I feel, I've, I've come to, instead of being sad from those comments, I feel sad for them.

Right.

Yeah.

I think, yeah, because I think

even I know for myself when I started this whole TV journey and stuff,

it took years to, you know, you to grow thick skin to it.

Like, I, there was a period in my life I had to take two years off social media, you know, because, and eventually now it's to the point and has been for a while, but I post stuff and if you don't like it, you don't like it.

I don't go back and read the comments, nothing.

Unless I see somebody I know, then I read theirs because it'll pop up, you know?

But I'm like, I post what I want to post.

If you don't like it, I don't really care because this is my page and I'm not going to read it.

I think what it comes down to, too, is like, they don't understand that their perception of me is just a reflection of them.

And they don't even realize that.

Like, they're almost, don't even get it.

Like, you understand that you're projecting right now.

You're talking yourself in the mirror, but you're using me as a really easy catalyst to do it and feel good about it because other people are like yeah, you're right and it's like yeah, I'm right and it's like you're not but okay, it's fine.

Yeah, so I feel like yeah, like your perception of me is just it's literally a reflection of yourself which the faster you understand that the quicker you can maybe heal some of your hate or vibe or whatever the hell is wrong with you because something's going on but you actually had I have to say because that two years you took off of social media like that was great for me yeah and it was really good for you, but I also felt like like I think it would be different if that stuff happened nowadays because I've never seen someone get so much hate for attacking their mental health.

And like literally,

like you like, I mean, people are like, oh yeah, they went to rehab.

Good for them.

And it's like you went to rehab or treatment and you were just like.

Yeah, it's interesting how it's like people.

Yeah, it is.

You know, you say that and it's people that go to rehab for addiction problems.

Like people are proud.

Yeah.

But if you're going for your mental health, which is part of

the world,

then people look down on you and say, oh, you're selfish or you don't care about your kids.

You just need to get over it.

Yeah.

It's like, how does that even make any sense?

I just feel like the hate you got was really unjustified.

100%.

Because like you said, we celebrate these recovering addicts and we celebrate them going to rehab and getting help.

But a mom who has postpartum depression and is a birth mom and has generational trauma going back.

I mean, and is ultimately doing it in front of the entire world and being judged on top of that.

Yeah, like it was, it was a lot.

Um, but I think that is interesting.

Just haters are always gonna hate.

And I always tell myself, like, well, haters, they just study keep us famous because they're spreading our name all over the place,

you know, like whatever.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

It really is.

But do you find yourself not reading this stuff now?

Yeah,

right, right.

Don't even open the door because it ain't worth it.

Yeah,

to you, my darling.

No, to you.

The roses were living the dream.

More champagne for me, people.

Until it all came crashing down.

He got fired.

Buy it.

From the director of Meet the Parents.

You're a failure.

Women don't like that.

If you need a shoulder or an inner thigh to lean on.

On August 29th.

I just want the house.

We want everything.

Wow.

Stop.

Yes.

And see the roses.

These people.

The roses.

Rated R.

Under 17, Not Minute Without Parents.

In theaters everywhere, August 29th.

So, how long?

You guys have been doing your podcast for two years, right?

Yes.

Okay.

And what do you think was the like what do you, what's your advice for us?

Help us out.

Like what do you wish to have?

Give me advice.

Yeah, what do you wish to have known or done differently?

Stay authentic.

There is,

I would say there's more of a benefit than you could ever imagine until you do it in like the trial and error, in the troubleshooting,

in the make sure you're confident and comfortable with what you're talking about.

But I think as long as you like keep your, what your direction is, what your goal is for each episode, I feel like y'all are going to be great.

So stay loyal to your intention.

Yeah.

Your purpose for it.

And make a list.

I'm very much a list maker.

Yeah.

No, that's how I am too.

Like if it were me and Taylor, he's not really a list.

I'm not a list person.

Yep.

Yeah, see, I'm like that.

I'm making a list.

Penny paper and I'm making a list.

Yeah, you know, it'll be just fine.

I mean,

you know, you've been in this world of production and things like that.

As long as you're yourself, people will love you or hate you, but

your name is still in their mouth.

Yeah, and honestly, if they hate me, well, then, you know, you're just weeding out the people.

I love, let the maggots rise up so I can, it's easier that way.

I love that.

Show me your hate so that letting go loop.

I would also say, too, just like with anything in life, like make sure that you don't overwork yourself.

because sometimes we've even had periods where it's like what we were talking about earlier before we were recording like people think oh you come in you sit down you talk for an hour and then you leave and you go home and it's just that's what a pod no there's like a lot of work that goes into making a podcast and publishing a podcast especially a good one um

But give yourself room to like rest and breathe and grace to say, you know what?

I don't want to put something out just to put something out.

Right.

And if you're not feeling passionate about what you're going to be talking about or who you're going to be talking to, then give it a week and try again the next.

But you know what I mean?

Like, don't force it.

Just make sure that.

Which I feel like, yeah, I feel like for us, like I'm loyal to the authenticity.

I'm not loyal to the deadline.

And if that deadline has to be pushed in order for my authenticity to take over, then that's what I'll do.

And like how you said about being passionate about it.

Like I want to talk about things that I'm passionate about and that I'm educated about.

I don't want to be spreading misinformation.

misinformation yeah and i don't want to sit here and pretend that i'm liking what i'm talking about because that's not fun either you know yes exactly i think that's that's pretty much the baseline um i also feel like you'll learn as you go yeah and that's kind of fun yeah it's it's and a bit rewarding too um because you can go back and be like look how shitty that was look how far we are now it's one of those things where it's like you got to be brave enough to be bad at something definitely know at it first, you know, and then that's how you learn and grow.

Sometimes failures are actually just a bigger push forward.

Failures are opportunities to learn and grow.

Yes, ma'am.

Yeah, and honestly, failure is, you can't get success without it.

Exactly.

It's impossible.

You're going to go through something.

You're going to fail at something in order to get to the top.

So, I mean, it's

the journey.

Yeah.

Which we're excited about.

That's why we're excited.

No, I'm excited.

Yeah, I'm excited for it.

I almost feel like we've been brewing on this for so long that it's like, we're almost like, okay, we'll talk about that now.

Yeah.

volcano ready to explode yeah that's what I mean going back to the list I have to write down stuff because he's throwing all these things and I'm like whoa

slow down okay you'll be driving the car and she'd be like listen I like can't even deal with the eight million subjects that you just covered in 10 minutes I'm sorry I'm sorry like can we just throw four can you think your top four you know because he's very much he jumps all over the place in every direction and you know I know when you're not listening because I say blue monkey I was literally just thinking

so I'll be like talking.

I can tell when she's like just like

he works with me, I guess.

He says secret words when he says sees me, I go, oh yeah.

And he's like, oh, it's a way for me to know though.

All right, Tara, shut up.

Yeah.

You're rambling.

Yeah.

You need to shut up.

So I'll be like, oh, you know, yeah, about that.

Uh, Nova's practice and blue monkey.

And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm like, okay, well,

I'm like, really?

You've done that?

Oh, but all the time.

It's a way of me saying, hey, are you listening to me?

Yeah.

And then it puts you in a position to be like, I wasn't, I'm sorry.

sorry.

So I'm like, I'm just eliminate it because I know I can talk a lot and really fast.

So I'll just say, I'll just add in Blue Monkey.

And if you go, yeah, oh, yeah.

I'm like, oh, yeah.

That's a sign.

I lost her because I lost her.

But then he's hilarious.

Then he told me that what you used to do, that to your mom growing up, you would throw out random words.

I could tell she's cooking dinner.

And I'm like, Monty, did you know that?

You know, just going on.

And I'd be like, Blue Monkey.

And she's like, yeah, it's hi.

Yeah, yeah.

She's like, all right, mom, go to my room now.

Oh, my gosh.

That's so funny.

That's great.

Because Nova's the the exact same way.

She's like our very talkative, curious, wants to know things, asks questions.

I mean, that kid will roll out of bed.

That reminds me so much.

Oh, she is.

My mom tells me the same thing.

Same thing.

She, like, he usually does, we split it up really good.

He usually does the morning stuff with the kids and gets them up for school.

And I usually do the nighttime things, like baths, bedtime.

Love it.

Love it.

It's a nice quality.

It's still good.

Yeah, I love it.

But man, there's mornings when Nova literally, her hair is still fluffed.

She could be still wrapped in a blanket.

And she's just like, My, you ever, you know, I was thinking this thing, you ever look at the stars and you just feel really connected because we're part of the stars and our ancestors are a part of the stars.

So we're just like really connected to stars.

And I'm like, oh,

you're trying to stir your cup of coffee.

Yeah, dude.

I'm like, it is 6.05 in the morning.

Like, where is it?

And she will just go on and on.

and on.

And I love that about her.

I do.

But sometimes I'm just like, ever since she was was yay big, she just talked, started talking, and she's never stopped.

I taught her Blue Monkey.

I said, Nova, if you ever want to just throw it out there and you'll know.

Yeah, I did.

Yeah.

That's really smart.

I'm going to, okay, I'm going to use that.

I'm like, go ahead.

I wonder if she's ever used it on me.

No, seriously.

Oh, my God.

That's it.

Are any of one of your kids like that?

Like, very, very...

Jade.

Oh, okay.

I feel like her and Nova are actually very similar.

And I I didn't realize that they were.

I guess it never occurred to me that Nova and Jade are literally nine.

Yeah.

Same age.

Yeah.

Nova's, what, January 1st?

Yep, New Year's Day.

And Jade's May 29th.

Just right after her.

Yeah.

They are close, but they are so similar.

So similar.

Like the whole wake up in the morning and like just talk about some random thing.

It's like this whole philosophy.

It's like they spent their whole night like a rabbit hole without the internet type of thing.

And I'm like, uh

Jade, give me a second.

Like, I haven't even brushed my teeth yet.

And honestly, neither have you.

Like, I know.

I'm like, where does all this stuff come from?

Because I'm not a morning person.

Me neither.

Like, don't talk to me.

I mean, I'm more talkative, but I just don't like getting up early.

That's my problem.

No, just don't talk to me.

Don't look at me.

I need a good 30 minutes.

I get up the morning of the kids.

I purposely get up a half hour before getting any of them up.

That's what Taylor does, too.

I need it.

I can't handle the chaos, especially because Nova is the first that gets up.

and she is a very like dad.

I'm like, dude, I can't even.

And now she gets up at six now.

I know, because her bearded dragon.

Now she's got to feed her bearded dragon.

So here I am get my coffee.

Here she comes going to the fridge and getting lettuce.

And I'm like, please don't speak yet.

But she does.

She does.

Yeah.

And then I think it's funny.

I know we're all on kids right now, but also I think it's funny that,

you know, you have a spicy one and I have a spicy one.

Who's the spicy one now?

We were cracked.

We were over there yesterday at dinner and we were just like, I was, he is, he's the best.

He's a ball of fire.

His little remarks and stuff.

Oh, yeah.

Like Veda, we call her like, she's our Mowgli.

Yep, Mowgli.

And she's just a Spitfire.

She knows what she wants.

She knows how to get what she wants.

And she doesn't care,

what you say or what you tell her.

She's going to get it.

Veda's going to learn the hard way.

That's Maverick.

That is Maverick.

That's learning the hard way.

He will, I can literally see his gears turning.

And he's like,

risk versus reward.

Don't care what the risk is.

Gonna get it.

Whatever happens, happens.

I'll deal with it after.

Whatever.

It's fine.

And they're so sneaky.

One time I was watching them, Mav and Jade, and they were like, Yeah, mom lets us drive the golf cart all the time.

And I let them, because I'm so gullible, I let them do whatever.

And they were not supposed to drive the golf cart.

No.

How did you find out?

Did you say, hey, oh yeah, they're going to try the golf cart?

I was like, I didn't know this.

You got to be kidding me.

Yeah.

So what did you say to her, get them off?

No, they're not.

No, no, I didn't say that.

She waited until she got home.

Yeah, Beth said, hey, they.

Did y'all say that?

Tell Atali.

I know what I did.

I knew they talked her in or told her that it was okay, even though they knew it wasn't okay.

But yeah, they'll, especially together, they will

find a way to manipulate the situation, especially if they know, for instance, like.

They had never been alone like with Natalie.

It's like it's just been all of us.

And it's like, oh, let's see if we can get this one over on her, you know.

And they're like, hey, ma, yeah, we want her to babysit again, yeah, for sure.

We're gonna tell her that we could drive a suburban, you know,

yeah, we could totally ride our dirt bikes in the rocks with no helmets on.

It's fine.

Does Matt, does Mav and Jalen?

Do they ever, are they close with Bentley's other siblings?

Yes.

Are they?

That's good.

That's cool.

That's really good.

They actually, anytime

his siblings are with Ryan, it's like, can we go to Ryan's?

Can we go to meet me and Papa's?

Like, they're big buddies.

That's super cool that they can all be involved because they're all

like Bentley's siblings.

Yeah, it's so funny because they're always like,

man, our family's kind of weird, but it's kind of cool.

Like, we have a lot of family.

I don't think my friends have family.

Like, their family's not like this.

I'm like, nope, probably not.

Because collectively, Bentley has how many siblings?

One, two,

three,

four,

five,

six,

step.

So, that's really seven?

Six, seven, yeah.

I only have one sister, so I'm like, that's cool.

I only have one brother.

That's crazy.

I mean, that's literally insane.

Like, holy crap.

It is.

So, the fact that they can all get along and stuff like that's cool.

Yes.

I mean, Bentley is much older than all of them, and he is very much on the same page as me.

Like, if I ever found out I was going to have a birth a child, y'all need to check on me.

I might end up in a facility somewhere.

Bentley's like, no more babies, please.

Oh, is he over it now?

Yeah, he's like, this is too much.

It's too much.

Well, yeah, because you think about it, like, his youngest is going to be born soon, and he's going to be 16 years older.

That was me and my brother Nick.

Yeah, that wasn't me.

But that's what Bentley said.

He's like, holy crap.

So, technically, like, I'm 16 now, and this baby is like you were 16 with me I'm like yep and I'm like could you imagine moving out and taking care of this said baby and he's like absolutely not like yep there you go

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Is any of Bentley's friends?

Anyone in his school, like they,

what are you seeing as far as teen pregnancy?

Is it down?

Is it up?

I was curious about that yesterday.

I think overall, even not even just in Bentley's school, but like, you know, friends that he plays other sports and stuff with that go to other schools.

schools.

I think overall it's down.

But I also think that the resources available for kids to find other education paths and programs and things kind of eliminate the awareness of it or people knowing about it.

Not because they're hiding it, but just there are many more resources available now.

But also, I think

the climate's changed.

You know, the conversations are different.

And with social media and the internet, I feel like kids are exposed to so many things earlier than even we were.

Yeah.

And it's kind of forcing conversations to happen.

So, I mean, just like our show, too.

Yeah.

So I think a bit more responsibility and smarter decisions are

being made.

Has Batman like ever asked you or like mentioned to you about like why are we doing this stupid show?

Why are you still doing it?

Or like anything negative, like, any kind of, you know what I mean?

Because as our kids get older, Noble's gonna be 10.

Yeah.

And then we're kind of like, you know, and there's days where her, her mic, and she's just, I'm like, so I'm like, she also knows.

She also knows too, if you don't want to film, you don't have to.

Yeah.

She has the freedom to go in her room.

Yeah.

Our kids know,

even if they're like, okay, I'm okay with it.

And then they're like, yeah, five minutes later, changed my mind.

All right.

Right.

Cool.

Like, you never, ever have to.

No, he doesn't hate it.

I mean, it is one of those, like,

oh man, I just got home from school and they're filming.

But he'll just, you know, go up to his room or

eat a snack, you know, off-camera or whatever.

But he's never really asked why.

I think because,

honestly, I think it's because of just the conversations that we have while we're filming.

And then also

when people in public will come up to us.

He's always just kind of heard like, oh my God, you know, I was a teen mom too and you guys helped me so so much.

Or he hears, you know, the moms that were like, my

son or daughter was 15 years old.

And with, if the show wasn't on, like, I would have never talked to them about

that.

Like, y'all gave me a way in to have that conversation.

So I think he's always kind of known that that's.

That's why, you know, is hopefully to be relatable, to help someone

or to make someone realize they're not alone in certain things that they're going through yeah whether it be that they relate to me or y'all or any other person that's you know crazy and brave enough to share their story on the show we all have something different to offer but i think he's just grown up hearing that and seeing it so i don't he's never asked that

and to go back to about like people are i feel like our age that are having kids and stuff it does we're talking to our children more so because we're learning that children are not stupid and they're actually really smart um

we we're starting to talk to them younger which i think is amazing like people sometimes look at me and ty like we're crazy yeah but like our 10 year old she knows what sex is she knows how it works that there needs to be a sperm and an egg yeah she knows that there's protection out there she knows about birth control she and it's all because she is genuinely driven it really yes and asked the questions when she was five it clicked in her mind, and she looked at Ty and I and she said, Oh, so you guys just mated.

She just watches

horses, and you gotta make it says, click mate, and they make a new horse.

Yeah, me and him.

So, Ty and I looked at each other.

I said, That's it.

We made it.

Yeah,

and eventually, she would ask more questions, and it would lead into, like, well, I can't lie to her.

Yeah.

Baby, don't grow in your belly or come out your belly button.

Like, I'm not gonna lie, you know?

Yeah, it actually, I'm the same way.

Yeah, that led us into her learning that we're like primates because she's like, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you were animals.

And she's like, whoa, what?

I'm an animal.

Yeah.

Because as much as she loves animals,

oh, yeah.

Yes, I'm an ant.

And I think it's good.

I do too.

Because she says it now.

She even says, like, she said, she talks about it a lot more so lately.

And she says, I don't think I ever want to have kids.

She said, I really want to be the cool ant

that has all the reptiles and I can spoil them and give them back.

And I I said, That's totally fine.

That might change.

And she says,

When I start my period, she goes, I'm getting on birth control.

And I said, Okay, well, there's other things we can do too, you know, like, you know, so she, and it's funny.

It's like, kids are smart.

And I,

you know, our show has even taught me in a sense.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Watching other people's stories and knowing that we have to talk to our children about all these things at a young age.

Have you seen a shift?

Like, as far as like, because you obviously you grew up, you, watched.

How old are you?

29.

Okay, so you're a little younger, but like you, did you see a shift in culture or like

in school and stuff?

Did kids talk about it?

Like

after the show?

After the show?

Like when the show aired?

Like when they got watching the show?

I think we were still in that time where you don't talk about it.

Like I had a sex,

my first sex talk was at church.

Oh.

Wow.

Weird.

And it was

with like the female youth.

Okay, female youth pastor.

It was all females in the room.

Was it a conversation of like

scare them out of sex?

No, it was more or less like,

this is what married people do.

This is only what you should do with marriage.

You know, just very cookie cutter, not, it's a penis and a vagina and an egg and a sperm.

Nothing like that.

Very.

Oh, okay.

It was put in a beautiful package and

a bow on it.

Did you absorb it?

A bow of bullshit.

I mean, not really.

They didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know.

I knew, you know, I knew what it was.

You probably knew a little more and was like, this is not real.

This is bullshit.

This is not exactly what it is.

And kids hate to break it to y'all, but did y'all know that?

Yeah, by the way.

You don't have to.

Maybe I should educate you.

Right.

I already knew this, and I kind of know more than that.

Yeah, so, okay, so that's, did you go to a public school or was it like a Christian?

Okay, okay, okay.

That's what I was wondering.

I'm like, did the, I didn't know if you like.

We did have health class, and that was educational yeah um

but I still feel like it could have been more you know yeah but you don't ever remember like kids talk about 16 are pregnant or a team mom or I feel like that was the age where y'all were just it was like y'all were just starting out and I was just getting into high school and so

it was like

not the

wanted end result.

Yeah.

No, it's because I remember when it first started, like we had to go defend the show to Matt Lauer on today's show.

It was like no one told us about it.

And it was like, you're going to talk to Matt Lauer about this new show.

I'm like, all right, or what, whatever's going on.

And I literally got grilled by Matt Lauer about why we're glamorizing.

Yeah, do you think you're glamorizing Tea Party?

And we're literally 17 years old.

And I'm like,

no, I don't, sir.

And I don't like, you know, it was just like.

If you think having to place a child for adoption because you have no support is glamorizing.

If you think

about it.

The son not having his dad around, can't pay bills, can't go to work.

It's glamorous.

you're like, right, like, this is not glamorizing, and it's, we're trying to show that it's not fun.

Yeah, it's like, that was crazy.

It was.

We were like, what?

And then it, don't you think it took a minute for culture and society to kind of get it?

Which I get.

It's tamboo.

It's shocking.

Like you said, nobody wants to talk about it.

Well, we need to talk about it if we want to stop the problems.

You have to know and recognize and.

Accept that there's a problem or anything's going to change.

Oh, man.

I don't know.

It took a minute.

I remember wanting, I would get so hot in those interviews.

Yeah.

Well, especially when you're not prepared for it.

They're like, go on today's show and talk about Team Mountain.

It's like, no, this guy's reading cue card gorilla us about why we're gonna destroy America's youth because now they're all gonna want to get pregnant to be on TV and stuff.

I'm like, if anybody has watched 16 and pregnant, like, trust me, if I had not gotten myself into this mess, I would not watch this show and be like, yeah, that looks funny, right?

Right.

Not at all.

I totally, that's exactly what I want my life to be.

And plus, I think one thing that our you that our like cast, the original people, is unique is that we didn't know anything about what it was going to be like.

No.

For Team Mom 2 and 16 and PCs and whatever, they already saw

the potential.

They're like, oh, this is where it could lead into.

We were the guinea pigs.

We had no idea where.

So to say that we're glam, like, glamorizing what our punk is got a thousand dollar capital, literally, like, how do I

still have a trailer, bro?

I'm still up that all the couple thousand dollars, and I split it with you, and then my mom took a thousand from me.

Yeah,

you know,

and I've never seen that ever again.

She dictated herself and she needed to be a bad thing.

I don't know what it was for.

All I remember is she took a thousand dollars from me, and I gave you 2,500, and so I was stuck with like $1,000.

Yep, and shared the biggest trauma of my life on television.

You forgot about your mom taking a the thousands.

Yeah, dude.

Yeah.

For a semester of school.

And that's when I was going back.

Oh, yeah.

And who knows what?

See?

Damn.

Wow.

All right.

Yeah.

I forgot about that.

Yeah.

So, wow.

I'm like, I remember going around telling people, like, oh, yeah.

They'd be like, oh, what show are you filming?

I'm like, we're going to be at True Life.

Like, True Life, I'm knocked up as a teen or something.

Yeah.

Like, I'm going to be a True Life.

Like, I feel like even the producers and stuff didn't know.

Yeah, because it really was.

It was like a True Life, like, docu series.

Yeah, like there was no.

Oh, I love that about it.

Yes.

I like the docu series part of it.

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Like, one of the craziest things I think about was when after Bentley was born, there would be a camera op that would literally sleep on the couch in the apartment to film

when the baby was wake, like when Bentley would wake up.

And I was like, I look back now and I'm like,

That is so insane, but also like, that's why that dog used to, it was so good.

It was.

Actually, I was so real on the bed and saying, Ryan, you're doing this.

I'm like, I have to do homework.

Yeah,

yeah.

Yes.

And his face looked completely like crazy.

What do you want me to do about it?

You were like, dude.

Do what?

Do something.

Take care of your kids.

Anything.

Just anything.

Seriously.

Anything's better than nothing at this point.

Yeah, seriously.

Golly.

Oh, man.

How's that going, though, as far as just like, you know, Bentley and Ryan?

And I mean, everything.

Everything's

normal and um on the up and up yeah I've it's been pretty good

we're gonna talk to her about Ryan oh she always talks about Ryan

but I meant like well Bentley

it's kind of odd how

normal

normal is is now like what the normal is and how much healthier that's it is um

but he's been sober for over a year and a half.

Good for him.

Two years in April.

That's awesome.

All we're interested in knowing is you as a mom.

I don't think people get to hear their perspective of being a mom who has to navigate protecting my kid while also trying to be as much of a bridge as possible to the other parent.

Like, I mean, my mom, I feel like, had a similar situation to my dad that you had, which is like, how do I, and she asked me when my dad was in prison, she was like, do you want to go see him?

And there's an age where I I was like, I don't want to go see him through the glass.

It's weird.

And so, and I remember her saying, Are you sure?

I don't want you to regret it, you know, because my sister would go and I wouldn't go.

And so, like, I thought about, I'm like, dang, like, the perspective of being a mom of having to protect your kids while also trying to nurture and build a bridge to something that could potentially that you're not in control of, harm them.

It's like, how does that, how do you do it?

You know, for a very long time, I had no idea how to do it.

It's much more of a follow your gut.

Yeah.

What feels right usually is, at least for the time being.

After doing a lot of therapy and like Al-Anon and all kinds of things like that over the last, like,

honestly, what, four or five years now?

Learning

what I can control and what I can't, what my responsibilities are, what are not my responsibilities.

But I think for me, the biggest change and shift for me was learning that it is also not my responsibility to right Ryan's wrongs.

I cannot do that.

I could try over and over and over again.

I cannot do anything about that.

And that makes sense because I could see as like a mom or a parent, the other one.

You want to fix it.

You want to

maybe start to overcompensate with this child because you know the lack of things that he's missing out on from somebody else.

You know, that would be hard.

It's a whole matter of just really shifting focus from the addict or even your child and focusing on you, working on you, learning what your boundaries are, what

trauma the experiences have brought you,

how maybe your feelings toward the other parent affect how you parent,

but also how

you might get in the way or

detach, which also isn't good for the kid.

But it's way more about looking internally because that I can only control me.

I can only

uphold my responsibilities.

And I can also just show,

be an example of like working on yourself, doing the work to try to get healthier mentally and emotionally

and talking about it and this is something that i like

before i did a lot of work and therapy and stuff on myself trying to make sense of his addiction and like trying to trying to figure it out you know if i figure it out then maybe i can fix it or then maybe i can do this but i think it was a matter of like when

when we got pregnant with Bentley and we moved into an apartment and then Bentley was born, neither one of us knew what we were doing at all, obviously.

Right.

We were kids, having a kid.

And I think for

me, it was like, I don't know what I'm doing, but also my motherly instinct kicked in.

And I was very much still like, well, I don't have time to sit here and like focus on what I don't know.

Like, I just got to do it.

And I got to do it.

And it was like, just do it.

And on the surface, I looked like I knew what I was doing and I looked like I was okay and I looked like I wasn't panicking all the fucking time you know whereas with him it's like he doesn't know what he's doing either right and I look like I know what I'm doing and I don't have time to slow down and help him like we didn't talk about things like that and I think for him it's like holy shit every they seem fine I don't know what I'm doing and I'm panicking why is she not panicking what how does she know what to do and I don't know what to do wrong right Or like that you're just failing.

Yeah.

And it's like, we were so young.

We didn't know to talk about those things with each other.

We didn't,

our relationship was full of love, but it was nowhere, it was not a mature relate because we weren't mature.

We weren't emotionally mature.

We weren't

even from a relationship standpoint.

Again, we were kids.

And it's like, I'm trying to keep my head above water.

And he's like, wait, but she's doing it and she's not saying that she's freaking out but i'm still freaking out and i still don't know like it was just a whole like so do you think vulnerability might have been missing like just being honest with each other about this is hard i don't i'm freaking out and i don't know what i'm doing yes like because then you guys could have maybe connected on that yeah and being so in survival mode

you naturally become selfish, especially when you're a kid.

Robot mode.

Yeah.

And it's like, I wasn't thinking about how he was doing.

Right.

You know, because I could hardly wipe my own ass.

Like, I couldn't, you know, I can't help you because I don't even know how to help myself.

But I think you being curious about what he was experiencing is like your curiosity really is empathy.

You're trying to like make a connect, like, you know what I mean?

Which is, like I said, I commend you because a lot of people can get hardened and they can stay hardened.

You got hardened, which is a part of the process, but then you eventually, listen, I need to, your curiosity took over.

Yeah.

Which I think is that creates healing.

I mean, I agree.

And I think too, when you do get hardened and you are just angry all the time,

if you allow yourself to do it, like you finally realize, like, at that point, you're just poisoning yourself.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, you are.

Wait for them to die.

Yeah.

It's not

they're not poisoning.

Like, I'm poisoning myself by.

And you say that stuff a lot.

Like, you've also said that to Nova.

Like, with certain things,

you know, if you take on, like, how, whatever the saying, you always say it to her.

I have too many.

When people are bullying her or like doing hard things or You're right at the in the end it ends up just hurting yourself more you're point literally poisoning yourself

and like you said waiting for them to die

But again you're the one holding the bottle

Yeah, exactly.

You're the one that's like in control of what you're doing and how you're being affected

But you're so focused on what somebody else is doing instead of focusing on yourself and what you're doing.

Like, how are you helping yourself, you know?

Yeah.

If you're just focused on fixing them or figuring them out, I'm never going to be good.

That's, yeah, it's, it's, that's one thing about Al-Anon that was like mind-blowing to me is like, it actually has nothing to do with the addict and everything to do with you.

And I've never actually been to Al-Anon.

It's amazing.

But people have, I mean, Dr.

Drew's been telling me.

Oh, yeah.

It is

a game changer.

But one thing I love about you and just watching your whole journey and just being a friend of yours is: I told her last night, I said,

I'm just, you're such a good mom in the sense of, you know, you let your kids, you're supportive of them and you help them, but you literally let Bentley grow and make his own opinion of his father.

And I feel like Tyler's mom did the same thing with him.

She never down-talked him.

She was honest with him if things were going on and he asked questions, but Tyler was able to grow up and make his own opinion of his father for what it is.

And that takes hard work to do because as a parent, I'm sure you probably want to say,

no, your dad's a fucking piece of shit.

You know, or whatever it is, he's a drug addict.

And, you know, like, because you are angry at times because you see your child in pain.

It takes self-control.

The most important thing, though, is knowing that when you talk bad about

your child's other parent, you're telling your child that half of them is bad.

Half of them is wrong.

Half of them is a piece of shit.

Half of them is worthless.

They're made of both of you, and you're just literally telling your child that half of them is worthless.

Right.

I think a lot of people need to hear what you just said.

Yeah.

Yep.

Because there's a lot of co-parenting situations that don't go that way.

And little kids have to hear

their other parent being talked about in negative ways.

Definitely.

And I think,

as a humankind, we are all

now.

given our podcast we do find that some people are just bad yeah like they're just yeah they're just not yeah not good but majority we all have goodness inside we all have growth and trauma and love and want to do and be healthy and loving and caring but you know for a kid

they're supposed to feel loved and if they're not getting it from one of their parents and then the parent that does claim and show up to love them and support them is

Dogging them.

It's like as a kid, it's like

so you don't love me enough to not tell me that half of me is fucked up, right?

Like it's not about it's they're a child like

it sucks.

That's one of my biggest things.

I'm like, hey, don't don't don't do that.

And also just respecting the fact that they have a different love that's just as vital with that person than you do with them, so it's like you have to understand and nurture that.

That's what I'm saying.

It's hard to do, though.

And you're kind of also telling them that how they feel about that person is wrong, right?

You should feel mad like me.

You should think these things like I do.

Yeah, when children, they just loved because they loved.

Yes, you know, you can learn a lot more from kids.

Oh,

yeah.

My kids teach me something new on the daily.

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But Natalie, do you have any, like,

did you have anyone in your family that was in addiction or have you ever experienced?

We had family members.

I've never been like face to face with it or lived with someone in active addiction.

I think we all have traumas and they shape us in different ways.

When I was growing up,

before I was a school age, I had a babysitter and it was just this couple that my aunt knew from church and

they had several kids that they would watch during the day

and I was raped by them, by the husband.

And it was so odd because after I got out of that situation and it's like I forgot about it.

Like it was like too much for my little brain to handle that I blocked it out for so many years.

Like I just, it was like one day I was like, oh yeah.

That happened to me.

That happened to me.

Yep.

And then you have to deal with it.

Yeah.

And that's where therapy comes in.

And,

you know, and then my, the person I lost my virginity to used to hit me.

And I felt like that was a really pivotal time for me

because I was able to connect that those acts are not okay.

They're not loving.

They're not healthy.

They're not, you know.

It's not what love looks like.

It's not what love is.

And it's okay to get out of it.

But

you gotta treat yourself.

You've got to make sure that your mental health is okay.

I wanna say, first of all, I wanna say

thanks for being vulnerable and sharing that because you don't have to.

And also, I hope you know that it takes a lot of strength and power to speak upon that.

And that I'm sad that that happened to you.

Did you ever, you know, don't ever, you don't have to answer anything if it's too personal or you're uncomfortable.

But

did you ever speak about it to your family?

Was there anything done to this person?

So I did not know that I was being hurt.

You know, when you're three or four, you think an adult's telling you to do something, you're supposed to do it.

And I didn't think anything of it at first.

And I just randomly,

I have a different memory of it.

Me and my mom have talked about it.

Like I remember we were at like Chick-fil-A and I told her and she was like, no, we were driving home and you told me.

So my memory is a little off on how, but I was like, this person is doing this to me.

And she was like, like, what?

And then we had a deeper conversation about it.

And

they did sit down with the husband and wife.

We all went to a park, and I was there.

I was there, my parents were there, and the couple was there.

We sat down at a park, and the woman goes, Tell your mom and dad you're lying.

Tell your mom and dad, this didn't happen.

She would go and get her hair done once a week, and that's when it would happen.

And I was like, No, this

happened to me.

Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let my parents think I'm lying because I'm not lying.

Right.

But no, no, no repercussions forever.

So in front of your mom, she said, tell your mom you're lying.

Did I?

I'd whip her.

Could you?

No, I'm like, I mean,

her anxiety is like, what?

Handcuffed.

Okay, so let me ask you a question.

Do you think that the way that that was handled was the right way?

No.

Okay.

So if,

like, because kids experience this all the time and they don't know how to say that.

I was going to say how she said that the memories came up.

The same thing happened to my mother.

Yeah.

Something happened to her when she was younger, and she started getting flashbacks when she was like 17 years old.

That's exactly what happened.

Wow.

When you got older, you were way older.

I did not, I didn't think about it through elementary school.

I don't remember thinking about it in middle school, high school,

when you start getting into, you know,

four months.

It's all came together.

Yeah.

Wow.

And it really helped because I took a psychology class in high school and it was like, I can't remember what the like point of view was or the thesis was, but it was just like,

tell your parents something that you may not have told them before or your experience.

And then I'd let my mom read it.

And she was like, oh, well, this is different or this is different.

Or she remembered it differently.

Wow.

Yeah.

So I want to bring up the point though that you being a victim said, I wish my parents would have handled it differently.

And it was a different time.

It was a different time.

But I feel like people who are listening or possibly anyone, like, you know, it's like, what would you have wanted it to be handled?

Do you think it was.

Do you think it would have been better if you weren't involved and that they would have been like legal stuff happened?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

I should have never seen him after that.

Yeah.

And I did see him after that.

Yeah, which is like, I'm like, it's, that's.

The promise was I was never to be left alone with him.

So.

Okay, wait a minute.

So how often were you?

Once a week.

Alone with him.

No, after the after I told my parents, I started going to the hair salon with her.

But I still went back.

Okay.

Right.

My parents didn't know how to handle it.

They didn't know what to do.

But as a kid of that and as a survivor of that, does that make you feel like, did that make you feel like they didn't believe you in a sense?

Because I told you this thing a little.

Yeah, and then I'm still around this.

Or made you feel like you probably should just not talk about it because clearly I said something and now I'm back in this.

And I think that's probably why I forgot about it for so long.

It was like, okay, it's here.

This is what happened.

There's nothing that we can do to change it.

Let's just never talk about it again.

And

have your parents ever like addressed it?

Yeah, they feel really bad.

Okay, right, because they obviously now know better or whatever.

Because

I think one of the hard things, though, is that like when you're a kid and you're like, because when I was sexually abused, I told my mom and she was off and slap me.

She was so mad thinking that I was lying, which I get from her perspective now as an adult.

I'm like, okay, well, it's a horrible lie.

lie.

And you can incriminate a lot of innocent people.

And she just thought I was making up stories.

But it's one of those things where it's like, if, if,

you know, by you sharing your story about that, I share my story.

If we can just, if this even gets out to one parent, like, this is how you handle it.

The child should never, ever be around that person ever again, never be forced to see them unless...

Unfortunately, it's at a court date when they have to testify.

And that's the only, that should be the last time.

Well, yeah, and Tyne, I've always said, too, like, when it comes to any situation like that, I will believe in my child until proven otherwise.

I will fight to the nail because

some parents end up, like, pushing aside or like, oh, maybe they're making up stories or whatever.

And you can't do that.

I think also, though, a lot of parents do the wrong,

they kind of absorb it the wrong ways and like, oh, no.

It's a reflection of my parenting.

I'm bad.

I failed.

I don't want anyone to know that I put my kid in a bad situation.

So shining.

That could have been

very much it.

They didn't know what to do.

So they wanted it to go away.

Go away.

Just disappear.

And also from their community, I'm pretty sure they didn't want people to, you know what I mean?

Because I think.

It's like I put my kid in that situation.

Yeah, right.

And so I think parents just swallow your pride,

believe your child until proven otherwise.

And yeah.

I appreciate you sharing that though, because that's hard.

I mean, that's yeah.

It's all about helping other people.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for sharing that.

But so you've never dealt with any addiction, though.

That's it's okay.

Interesting.

But you're right, trauma is trauma.

Trauma is trauma, you know.

And you have to deal with it, or it's going to come back to you in the ass at some point in your life.

And you got to deal with it.

You got to go to it.

It really does.

Yeah.

Mine slapped me in the face at 21 years old and hit me like a ton of bricks.

I really firmly believe, too, that until you've really gotten to know your trauma and gotten to know every

way of yourself, you truly cannot love yourself.

True.

You know, until you've really gotten to know the good, the bad, the ugly, the

child in you.

Like until you've really just sat with your own shit

long enough to get comfortable, you really cannot truly love yourself and care for yourself if you don't get to know.

who you are.

And I actually have this.

It's a picture that one of those two people that babysat me when I was younger, I have a picture of myself that they took that I look at.

It's on my fridge.

And anytime I'm like, God, Harlie, you've done this.

You've done that.

You're feeling bad about myself.

I'm like, I'm talking to that little girl.

Yes.

Yes.

That is who you're talking to.

Who in a way,

as an adult, you can look back and say, deserve better.

Yeah.

Deserve better.

And it's okay to say that.

I'm not shaming your parents.

It's just being honest.

They didn't know.

They didn't know.

They didn't have the resources that we have now.

Yeah, because

I feel like with therapy, it's like, you don't have to be this hugely traumatized person to benefit from therapy.

I think therapy comes along as like,

curiosity leads to understanding.

A deeper understanding leads to healing.

It's like,

I don't know, I can better process it if I know why I act this way.

And so it's like, okay, you have to be, just stay curious about your healing.

One of the therapists I worked with for a very long time had a a great metaphor for therapy.

And like you said, you don't have to necessarily have a lot of trauma that is really

deep and sad and scary and ugly for therapy to be beneficial.

You think of it as like, all right, you have a toolbox.

And when you go to therapy, you're going to get a new tool to help you navigate life easier, better, healthier because of the tools you have in your toolbox that you get from therapy.

And that's whether it's trauma, whether it's something in the future, like therapy is just filling that toolbox.

The more things, the more full of tools.

Yeah, the more tools you have, the more things you can fix.

Yes,

you know, my toolbox saves me all the time.

Coping strategies and stuff.

But I think, you know, it's almost like looking at yourself like you're like

an outside experiment.

Let me, I'm so curious on why my brain does this.

why don't that, why does that trigger me?

Yeah, why do I react?

Why do I react this way?

Where's the power being held here?

Like my current, if it wasn't for me being curious, I would never would have started therapy.

But I just knew, I was like, I don't know, why do you do this?

Like, what's wrong with you?

Yeah, how do I figure me out?

I'm gonna figure myself out.

Help me, you know?

I need help figuring out myself, my mind.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a, but it's, it's a conscious decision you have to make.

Definitely.

As an adult.

And I also feel like the adults, a lot of adults need to just take more accountability for not being curious enough.

Why are you not curious enough?

Don't you want to know more about who you are?

So that way you can raise little kids and help them know better who they are.

And it's like, it has a ripple effect.

I mean, you know,

it does.

Yeah.

Therapy, therapy, therapy, therapy.

Therapy.

Your mental health matters.

Yeah.

You matter.

Therapy has helped me.

you know, put some generational traumas stopped in its tracks, you know?

So and there's still some people who don't believe in generational generational trauma, which is mind-blowing to me.

I can literally name things off the top of my head that has been carried down from generation to generation in my family.

It's insane.

And like I said, it can be, it doesn't always come in a

like,

like really all clear, there's something wrong here.

Yeah, or the exact same.

Yeah, because honestly, it's like, I know a lot of people who grew up, like I said, a beautiful family, great house, awesome parents, and there's shit that happened.

And it's like, yeah, I just feel like you can't ever,

you have nothing to lose from gor therapy that you have nothing to lose only everything to gain so yeah learn about your damn self

i did too so i wanted to know um like where can people find your guys's podcast um how can you listen instagram any wherever you download podcasts oh okay good yeah and

apple i just I appreciate you guys hopping on here.

I feel like, you know, we started off really fluffy and then shit gets really deep and we gotta fluffy, you know what I mean?

Like that's how conversations go with us.

I kind of feel like this was kind of therapeutic though.

Yeah.

It's been really good.

Telling your story is therapeutic.

Definitely.

It is.

But I just want to say thank you because I mean, you don't really know us and that's, you know, I try to be as open as possible because I know someone somewhere is relating to me right now.

100%.

We still have to do that.

And that's why perfect partner.

Yeah.

See, it works.

It works great.

You got to have that.

You got to have that purpose.

The purpose.

Yeah.

And like I said, if you guys ever want to come on in or you want us to come on, let me me know.

Or you want to squash something, you know, you just pick up.

You know, we'll figure something out.

I'll be sent to Michigan unsolved mysteries.

Oh, please.

Oh, no.

Yeah, when I find that out, I'm totally.

I want to

be a mystery.

Let us be a guest.

Let us, like, let's like.

I want to get into some shit.

Yeah, but I'm going to be like, hey, can you find this address and please time this drive?

Okay, all right, got it.

Got it.

How many steps?

Make sure to fimble from behind the scenes.

Yeah, so if you drive a water area, we'll be good.

Yeah.

We're in that little area.

The doctor's a little

Definitely.

No, it's been fun.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah, thank you for having us.

Yeah, well, no.

It's been awesome.

Thank you for having me guys.

Yeah.

Damn, do we, huh?

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