Bringing The Truth To Light with Jordy Cray

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So, hi, Jordi. It's nice to meet you.
Thanks for having me here. Very very excited I was telling Kale I was like this must be how Kelly Clarkson felt when she won American Idol oh damn you're putting it way out there dang okay you're amazing living large now I know I appreciate it so I'm excited to be here well I know, I know that you and Ty met just a little bit.

A little bit.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

But I've never even seen you or anything until all this stuff happened.

So I was like, oh, that would be nice just to talk, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, you don't know.

I don't even think you watched a live that we did.

No, I did not.

No.

You were doing a live with somebody else that day, I think.

Probably with Ray.

Yeah.

Yeah, it happened really fast.

I just messaged you and was like, hey, don't go live. And you're like, yeah, give me know i was like oh my god i'm not prepared but it was good yeah it was good i mean i felt like we had a good conversation it was pretty civil you know i mean i felt like you know we got a little more information you got some more context yeah um so okay i wanted to ask you though what did you after we had our conversation did anybody reach out to you as far as like adopted people on tiktok did anybody like because i know tiktok's like your big that's like where you're all your followers are right how many how many do you have like where you at now my god almost 600 000 dang okay half a mil how did you well how did you even get started on tiktok like what made think? So I discovered that Hilary Duff and her sister were beefing.
Oh, okay. Um, just social media sleuth that I am.
And, um, it kind of blew up my first video ever. And then it just kind of went on from there.
Oh, okay. But I, I consider myself a teen mom historian.
So I wanted to show, you know, different sides of my personality and, you know, things that I enjoy. enjoy so when i started talking about teen mom that kind of blew up too because i you know have a lot of opinions that's why you're here yeah everybody does everybody does no yeah especially on tiktok i mean people got a lot of opinions on teen mom i feel like yes because tiktok wasn't around when teen mom first started no no so now space was still around so now that tiktok's here it's like now people are going back i feel like and watching from the beginning and now we have a whole new like yep almost new generation of listen or watchers that are like didn't know anything and now they're all getting you know opinions so i mean you got to say yeah it's like yeah 100 but yeah i thought it was interesting though because i was like, like your perception of it is that we, you know, like talking about Carly or our adoption story was, you were like not a good, you don't think it's a good idea to do it.
Mm-hmm. Right? I want to hear your opinion.
No, it's fine. So I was just having a hard time wrapping my mind around.

I know that there's contention between, you know, Brandon and Teresa, and there has been for quite some time.

But venting on social media, I felt like hurt your guys' cause because we know some of the Teen Mom fans are crazy.

I mean, I'm crazy, but I'm not that crazy.

But it gets them all riled up and then they start, you know, now we know everybody's involved now.

So I feel like it just causes a bigger issue and would piss off Brandon and Teresa even more. And so when you say, like, you think that it creates a bigger issue, in what sense do you mean? Because everybody's involved.
Everybody has, now everybody you know more backlash for you guys more backlash for Brandon and Teresa and it's I don't know I feel like although it's a private matter you guys live your life in public so I don't know if anything's really private so that's what's kind of like difficult about it yeah um and I know something that you probably brought up and we can talk about this too because i'm a child of addicts too and i know that you are too and i had said something that i think that you two have inherited certain traits from your parents that were like if you don't get your way you can use that to like manipulate situations or like you know try to like get back at people you know what i mean in like in like a vindictive way or yeah so so your opinion is that you are saying that we like okay so yeah well what you said was like we manipulate to get sympathy that yeah yeah that's what you said and so i want you to elaborate on why you believe that is um because i never really understood what the point of it was except to get sympathy and to try and get people to get on your side of things okay so you feel like we're recruiting people to like get on our side like from an outside perspective looking into like story, I can I can see where you would think that. And I understand that, you know, that thought on that.
But I think our main goal for putting stuff out publicly was because if Carly has a chance of being able to see that we never stop trying, she deserves to know that, in my opinion. Also, it is bringing awareness to everybody that is involved in adoption.
It's bringing awareness to adoptive parents that stuff like this happens, birth parents, and also it's giving a voice for adopted kids you know which is the main thing the adoptees need um but i can see i can see where you where you would think that i have a question do you believe do you so do you believe that other people on the cast manipulate to get sympathy or to recruit people to get on their sides yeah okay okay because i feel like because i feel like so where do we cross the line with sharing our story on a reality TV show as people or then turns into manipulation for sympathy? You asked, where do you cross the line? Where's the line? Where's the line of like, oh, I'm just, you know, a reality TV person, you know, whatever that is sharing my story, have been doing it for 15 years. Where's the line cross from just sharing our story, being vulnerable, honest to manipulation to get sympathy or recruit people to be on our side i mean that's a good question i i just when i talked to you on instagram you said that you didn't even care if brandon and theresa got upset about this kind of thing and what i still struggle with is that carly's gonna see all of this.
Like when she's 18 and watches the show, hopefully, you know, in college, wherever she goes. So even though you're like venting and stuff on social media, which, by the way, you guys have every right to do.
Because you do the same thing. Right.
Exactly. Yeah.
I mean, yeah. So she's going to see it anyway.
So do you think that you putting it on social media is going like annoy her or drive her away even more you know i mean we don't we don't know um obviously because you know they have completely cut us off blocked me you know it's now she's telling us that we're not allowed to even send gifts to the house anymore when they say that um this was a few months ago yeah well everything is before the block no no this is after the block oh wait wait spill that what happened yes so i want to give you a little bit of backstory yes please do okay so what happened was is so there's carly but they also have another adopted child okay and so me and that birth mom she lives in michigan she has you know kids she's raising and stuff me and her talk and um we're pretty close because we share that bond um it all started with his the it's hard it gets confusing but carly's um her brother's birth mom reached out to, hey, do you think we're getting a visit this year? The kids are getting older. You know, has Teresa said anything to you? And I said, no, but I can start a group text and we can ask her, you know.
So that's what we did. And so I we sent a text in this group chat and I just said, hey, you know, we would love to try to get together this summer.
we'd be more than willing to come to North Carolina and even meet up just for dinner one day uh and after I said that to her she ghosts me for weeks which this is typical of Teresa I can message Carly and say I can message Teresa and say hey how is Carly in school is she liking it not here anything for weeks it's not really a shocker it's not nothing new that always happens and then so days go by a week goes by and then the birth mom messages me hey has she said anything no so I reach out in hey just checking in on on this wondering if you and Brandon had the time to talk about it and she was just like you know it's just I know it's disappointing but no we're not planning to have a visit this year and I said I said yeah I said it's disappointing just because of all the kids you know like all the kids like my kids are getting older they know Carly they know that's her sister the other birth mom's kids same thing they know that their brother is out there and they ask questions I said so it sucks that you know we can't even meet up just for a dinner you know and then theresa was like yeah i understand you know whatever but um just know that we love and we care about you guys so much um and she also said no to the dinner because we were like oh we'll come to you we'll make it really easy i know you're busy with the kids and if that's a problem then we'll just come to you and make it meet up at a restaurant for an hour dinner you know make it simple not like a long weekend long visit like we usually have how they are yeah and um and then so and she got upset with me because i said you know it doesn't feel like love you know like people that i truly love and i care about that are involved in my life i make time for those people i even if it's just an hour like I want to spend time with the people that I love and I care about. So she got upset with me that I said that.
And then you fast forward a few weeks and it was like Carly's birthday. So of course I'm like, Hey, I texted Teresa.
Like, Hey, I sent Carly gifts. Please let me know if she gets them.
Um, and she answered me on that day. But even a few days after her birthday, I checked in again, and it was like she never responds.
You know, weeks go by, then I check in again, no response. And I'm like, okay, you know, what's going on? Does she like our gifts? Right, you know, or whatever.
And then she just came back with like, you know, the way that you speak about us isn't nice, and we're not going to be responding for a while, which kind of blew mine in a little bit because I was like, I've never, I mean, you can watch everything that I've shown on this journey and I have never called them out of their names. I have never said that they were shitty ass parents, weren't doing a good job raising my child because I believe all those things.
I believe that they do. She's an amazing, well-rounded kid because of them, you know.
And so when she said that, my response to her was basically like, I get that. I get that if your feelings are hurt and my feelings are hurt, too.
And when you want to have a conversation about that, I'm here for it. And we should have that conversation.
And I told her, I said, but you know, until then,

I'm going to continue to send gifts to Carly like I always have.

And I'm going to continue to send updates like I always have.

And so that's why when people online said like, Oh my God,

Caitlin's just blowing her up all the time. It was like, no,

that all those messages were from after I got that text from her and me

telling Teresa, like, okay, I get it, but I'm going to send updates. And they were like once directed to Carly.
Yeah. Once like every other week.
And one of the main reasons why I decided to do that also was because I had a lot of adoptees and birth parents reaching out to me and saying, don't ever stop. one day she is going to see all of those things that you tried to give her and show her and all of the things.
And so I continued to do that. Then I found out she blocked me, and I found that out through our adoption counselor, Dawn.
And I was still sending gifts every once in a while, you know, or or whatever for a birthday i sent her crumble cookies because teens love crumble cookies i don't know what it is i hate them do you yeah i had him for the first time a couple months ago trash disgusting yeah what did you have because i like the chocolate chip what you don't like a chocolate chip it was too heavy it was like heavy i could have like knocked my husband out with it like it was just ridiculous what is this cookie yeah yeah sorry no no no you're fine you're totally crumbled vacation season is nearly upon us and i literally cannot wait this year i'm treating myself to luxe upgrades that i deserve with quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices like Like lightweight European linen styles from $30, washable silk tops, and comfy lounge sets. I love those.
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So then, yeah, and so I obviously unblocked from her phone number still and so i sent um carly i sent her some flowers and it had like a note on it and so i asked on can you reach out to theresa i just want to make sure that they got there and then she came back to theresa and said you know you can tell kate and ty this but they're no longer allowed to send gifts to our house it is disrespectful and that really took me and ty back because back because – We never thought – I mean gifts are gifts. So not even gifts.
No. Because I feel like honestly I would accept a gift from anyone for my kid.
How am I going to stop and withhold an expression of love to the child when it's been happening for 15 years especially? But even just like anyone can give my kid a gift. And I'm like awesome.
That's great. My kid's going to love it.
Yeah, he doesn't love a gift. Yeah, it's a gift we never thought like okay we get you're you're upset and you don't want to talk about anything and that's fine but not to send gifts and also not to send gifts when it's been a thing for 15 years it's all carly's ever known so how do you explain to the child now all of a sudden the gifts stop yeah and and i and i since i can't talk to carly and tell her that, how are you doing that? And what, you know, we have no say so in how she gets that information about not getting gifts.
She watches the show? No, they keep her from it. Well, when she's 18, I mean.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah.
I thought you meant right now. Sorry.
So, I mean, so it was just the whole gift thing. And the thing that, yeah, like how Ty said about, I don't understand why you would stop gifts, especially after 15 years.
One of my things also, too, is like I sat there as a child, a literal child. And that was my main thing that I said to her and Brandon was like, I don't, you know, above everything else else I just want to be able to send her birthday gifts and send her Christmas gifts and Easter I remember telling him I will send everything for any holiday just because I want her to know that she is loved by us and that we haven't forgotten about her so and they agreed they were totally on board they were yeah so I think there's a lot of underneath going on and i know a lot of people say that we are exploiting carly or posting stuff when we were asked not to and part of this podcast is to also get my part out of that's not all factual there's a lot of things yeah i mean because the fact of the matter is we even asked before being blocked like we just want to know if what we're doing is harming carly or not is it is it her is she saying hey i don't want to see pictures of my sister my sisters it's it's hurting me or i don't want to get gifts and theresa responded no she just ignored well no she told dawn we haven't answered that question but you're forbidden you're forbidden to tell Tyler and Caitlin what that answer is.
And so my thing is, is that, listen, you. If it was Carly and you're the parent.
You should advocate for your child and tell us, hey, you're hurting my kid. Please stop.
Right. So the fact that you're not willing to do that means who are you prioritizing here? Why are you not advocating for this child and saying, hey.
Because if one of our kids, if someone's like hurt – I don't know who it is. I'd be like, you're hurting my kid.
Stop doing it. Not, hey, I have an answer for you, but you're not going to get it.
The power dynamic is weird and doesn't make any sense. And I don't think that you withholding that information from us, which would help and benefit everything moving forward.
All I got to do is communicate and is what's going on it would eliminate all this so i'm confused on why that's not happening and i just feel like you have the opportunity to advocate for that child so why are you not doing that i feel like you know and we want you to do that yeah i want you to advocate for her and also you know i feel like we you agreed on this open adoption you agreed on all these things and so you agreed on it being filmed you agreed to show up on reunions i just re-watched your 16 and pregnant the other day like in preparation of this and i remember god right after you gave birth she gave you like the bracelets yeah yeah do you and she's like i'll never take it off yeah and so like what'd she do with that? Like, where's all that? You know? I don't know. I still have mine.
Yeah. It mostly sits in my jewelry box because I have lost it a few times being a kid, you know? So that stays.
But yeah, things like that. You know, when it's beneficial for them to exploit Carly and to post.
What do you mean by that? I mean as far as. That means like they allow, we asked can we post pictures and they said only the back of her head.
Right. If you can't see her face, we're fine with it.
Right. So that's what we did.
I think people get really confused about you keep, they keep saying, oh, well, you keep, you know, breaking the boundaries with Brandon Teresa trees you keep disrespecting what their wishes are and it's like well it happened one time where um when we were what 17 18 years old in the way beginning uh yeah that you know i posted a picture a video or something i can't remember what it was and they and then we had a conversation it was filmed you're pregnant with nova we hashed it all out and we agreed from that moment forward like

we won't post any more pictures any unapproved yeah any unapproved photos right and then yeah that's when you fast forward a few years because nova was born and that was the other visit where they got to meet for the first time and theresa said i sent pictures like can i post this one and this one and she's like as long as you don't see her face i'm fine with it just like how they've done for mtv when they cover some of our visits like just the back of her head or sometimes they've used like clips of her voice but they kind of auto i don't know like auto tune it so you can't really can't really tell yeah like tell what her voice sounds like and stuff um so what i mean as far as like they have kind of they've kind of exploited their situation too um is is those things. Like people want to put all the blame on us.
Like you're on a reality TV show and they didn't sign up for this. It's like actually – Well, they did sign up for that.
I will defend you guys with that. They did.
I will defend that. And they also agreed on the whole thing about, yeah, MTV, you can show the back of her head and we're going to get compensated for it.
all that only and so and if you don't compensate us then you're not allowed to use these pictures on TV and so it's so I guess they financially benefited from this as well oh yeah hugely which is why I feel that it's hypocritical and I don't understand your moral if it's a really moral standpoint that you're taking it doesn't totally get it yeah but it's not because you literally went on the magazine when she was five and put her face out there and that was fine and that was okay and i really wish we had that article because in that article that magazine that says we are so blessed with the open adoption we love that we can get have contact with them we love it for our kids and we're going to continue to do all that. You know how beneficial it is for the adoptee.
And so, yeah, and things like that. And then, you know, fast forward when we would post only approved pics, like she said, and then she got upset because we posted this last visit we had.
I don't know if you've seen it. When was the last one? It was two years ago.
It was like two years ago. That's the last time you saw her? Yeah.
Yeah, and I posted a picture on my Instagram. It was like all of us walking.
Yes, I did see that. And then Tyler posted one where it was him, ago two years ago that's the last time you saw her yeah yeah and i posted a picture on my instagram it was like all of us walking yes i did see that and then tyler posted one where it was him carly and nova and it was the back of them and then they called us and had a conversation and the only reason why they were upset because we had the conversation i said you always told me yeah the back of her head it's fine yeah and she goes well i guess i'm just well it was actually brandon who said well i guess we're just kind of upset about it because now MTV can't pay us because it's not an exclusive picture because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because

because

because

because

because

because

because

because

because

because

it's not an exclusive picture. Because now it's not an exclusive.
Because we did it first. That's T right there.
And so I'm saying a lot of people don't know that there's so much backstory to our story. Well, I appreciate you telling me that because that changes a few things for me.
Well, I would like to know your opinion, though. I think that's bullshit that they, you know, they can be so greedy in that sense and then turn around and act like they're this you know morally you know righteous christian you know of people of god which i mean i'm sure they are no yeah at the same time let's cut the bullshit well and my thing is is that like and we have stayed silent on all those little details up until now because now we literally have nothing to lose but then it does make and then but then it does have people looking at us like oh my gosh you're breaking boundaries you're disrespecting which i understand why you nobody knows the full scope of things but i'm telling you it's not so black and white no this whole journey if and it's not like they get the money and they put it in account for carly no they're using it to pay for their flights pay for their hotel all that stuff which i get but when we had that conversation we had that conversation with them on the phone, I said, I wish you would have told me.
I said, I would have helped you. I would have fought for you.
I'm the best person that could help you and say, you ain't getting my picture either that I posted on Instagram unless you help them with their travel. Right.
Like, I get that. But the way that they would just always, like, if it benefited them, they were going to do it.
And if it made the adoption look really good. They were going to do it.
But if it was but yeah you express your feelings or anything that was negative about it it was like you can't do that no now it's bad now we're mad yeah it's just a weird it's a weird power dynamic and it feels like for so long we had to be silent because like you said i don't want to ruffle feathers i'm not in control so we have to kind of be like okay like all right because I don't want you to take her away so we didn't speak on a lot of things that happened behind closed doors because I want to that's priority number one is to be able to see her and have access to her so now that access is taken away it's like well then I mean you guys don't have anything left to lose at this point I don't yeah we don't have anything to lose and also just the fact of the matter that I truly in my my heart of heart, do not believe that it's Carly that wants this. If you had to pinpoint what it is, what do you think it is? I think it is fear-based.
I think that it is... I think it's parental insecurity.
Yes, I think there's some infertility trauma because that's hard. Very.
Not being able to have your own shot you know like that's hard and it's sad and i do feel like it's gotten it's gotten things have gotten more rocky as she has gotten older and asking questions yeah yes she's been asking and i she's asked questions i've been informed of these questions that she's asking and i think it scares them which i get that when she's older she might want everything to do with us and nothing with them and that's pretty much the main fear that we believe is right driving everything and the sad thing is though is like I have told them even face to face um like Carly could come to me and say like oh my gosh my mom and my dad just bug me because they want me to do this this this and this I said I will always have your back and I will always say they're your parents and those are your parents and they love you and they're doing those things because they want the best for you and why i will if even i can not agree with everything that they do so advocate for i will always advocate for them and have their backs because guess what they raised her yeah they raised her yeah i always tell time like those are the people who cuddled her when she scraped her knee riding her bike those are the ones who are cleaning up puke at two in the morning off the floor like they love her and so they deserve that advocacy in our opinion yes and we always do that and i've told them that face to face so just the way that it's gotten is sad yeah you know i mean a lot of people didn't see before all this bloop on social media and the aftermath that i was physically going through um it brought up brought up a lot of PTSD for me, um, and for him. And it was a very hard time in my life.
And it's just, and now that's why we're going to put the truth out there in ways that we can, because it's not all, there's bad things that each of us have done as people and but i think we're we take accountability for those things and we we i mean we always try to put ourselves in their shoes and that's why we did say silent for so long because it's like i don't want to i'm trying to understand your perception as her parents and i get why all these things are you have all these fears and stuff but I just feel like for you as a parent to allow your insecurity in this fear to trump the best interest of her doesn't make sense to me and that's also not what we wanted and what we agreed upon 15 years ago like it's we always were supposed to be a team and to to you know for her and so when we ask you is anything we're doing harming her you know is anything that we're talking about affecting her or these visits not wanting to have the visits because i would take that and yeah i would i would probably cry about it but i would respect it and then none of this would be happening yeah but they don't even want to talk to you no so it's hard to so it's hard to like do anything or mend anything when you don't when you just cut off communication it't make any sense. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't in this type of situation.
One thing that shook me, Tyler, when we were on our live is when I asked you like what are like your regrets about it and you said you wish you chose different parents for Carly. Kate and Ty Break It Down is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash break it down. Did they reach out to Dawn and say anything about that like did you get any response from that i mean no not that i know that's what we know but i think i think it's interesting that you bring that up because if i would have said my only regret is i wish i would have parented that is literally the same thing as saying i wish she had different parents because i would be we would be her parents there's no difference in me saying then that would have been accepted by tiktok people and everyone that would have been fine if I were like oh my biggest regrets I wish I would have parented her and everyone would have been like oh wow yeah of course yeah the fact that I said I regret and wish I would have picked different parents for her everyone freaked out and it was like I mean I was shook I didn't know what the hell to say I was like oh but oh god if i said i wish i would have parented her and no i would have understood that okay so that there's no so there's no difference in those two answers so does that make sense do you do you take that back and say i wish that we if we knew like if we knew how far like teen mom and everything would have gone i wish that we would have kept her you know i always say it's hard it's a hard thing yeah I think for well for me personally I always say to myself um you know if I could go back there's things that I would change about my adoption and I wish there was more things I was educated about when I was making that decision I still think that I would have chose that option for her because all of the shit that I went through and shit afterwards my my mental health stuff, all of it.
You know what I mean? Like I definitely still would have. I just was not ready at that time and I didn't, you know, just yeah.
And also the fact we didn't get to spend a lot of time with them. We only met them one time and then we met them again when she was giving birth.
So it's like, I think for sure. I would change some things.
Yeah. And also we weren't educated on the fact of that they always wanted a closed adoption.
I didn't find that out until way later in life. Which we thought was really weird.
But we also were like, oh, that's why we don't know their last name for years. That's why we don't know their address.
That's why we can't have their phone number for years. Because at first, we were like.
Because I remember she was born. I was like, oh, what's her last name? And they were like, oh, we don't want to tell you.
And so me and Karen. And I was like, what? Okay.
And then we get a card on her first birthday and it had their full name on it. Like Brandon True's full names with their last names.
And it didn't click at first. I'm like, what? We went a year without knowing their last name.
We went multiple years without being able to send gifts right to their house. We had to go to Dawn.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like we would go to Dawn to dawn and then dawn would ship them they would send stuff to dawn and then but it was so even some things came out after she was born and years down the road like i didn't know they always wanted a closed adoption which that's why i want to bring up to the point that like there were only there was four people involved in this agreement and two of them were children and two of them were adults. And so when you find out that you originally wanted closed, why did you not just say, we're not a good fit? We want to open.
Why didn't Dawn say that? Well, she mentioned to them, she said, hey, they want to open. Why didn't she tell you guys that? We don't know.
I don't know. I think it's because the whole goal is to get a baby.
So we're going to. It's messed up.

It is.

And that's why the industry needs to kind of.

We need adoption reform period.

And especially being like.

In all ranges of it.

But.

Being children like you said.

Sign like signing these.

They're not legally binding in any way.

So it's not like I can get a lawyer.

And fight to see my kid.

Not like I would do that anyways.

Right.

Yeah.

But.

I had.

We had no legal representation. We had nobody really.
When when you're 16 you didn't have guidance either right no yeah we didn't have any guidance and i was going off of a verbal saying oh my gosh i'm giving them my child that i want so badly of course they're gonna list of course they're gonna do everything they're gonna say they're gonna do you know and also because we're kids and we're trusting the adults around us to try to like okay i'm gonna listen to you i don't know anything about this and you do and you're a grown up and I'm not. And so we're going to kind of trust your whole – trust your word and we're going to go with that.
But it's like when we – afterwards all these things unfolded and we also felt like I think we were trying to kind of like heal about what's going on. So we didn't push back at all because we were like we never did this before.
I don't know how to navigate all this or whatever. You don't even know what the questions to ask.
Yeah, and I also feel like if you were an adult and you knew what you wanted, I think your responsibility should have been, this isn't a good fit for us. We want clothes.
The fact that you shifted your desires to get the baby is selfish to me. Yeah.
Because i feel like that automatically kind of shows that you weren't really planning on you know doing what we agreed upon right away that's what it felt like at least yeah i mean that's what it felt like when we got all this out yeah and for john to not you know tell you guys that is disappointing yeah i agree i can look back on some things and i i see some clips now that i'm older and i'm like whoa she wasn't forthcoming with certain things yeah it's i wanted the whole adoption thing is just crazy it's insane the fact that this is such a unique story and it's been shown on tv and people have every journey is not the same at all yeah he was gonna ask a question. Yeah, I wanted to ask, have Brandon and Teresa ever said to you guys that,

you know, now that she's getting older, like, does she get recognized?

Do they get recognized?

Like, is that a problem for them?

Because Carly, I'm assuming, I don't know, looks just like your other kids.

So do they get recognized in public?

They have never said anything to us. I feel like Brandon, i mean i feel like they probably do assuming and i don't know if it's just the the culture of t-mom fans and them just and being in the south respecting them or maybe people do come up to brain and theresa because they are very recognizable people right now some though i remember we asked them at a visit they said no no where everything's everyone where we live is everything's really great and so we were like oh okay so i don't know if it's just a southern thing and like respect because i mean like you said there are weird people out there like we have had people message us and be like oh my gosh carly just walked into my coffee shop today and she was the sweetest little like i'm telling you yeah so people are you know weird but obviously people know who she is i just think down there maybe it's like a respect thing because they know Brandon and Teresa don't want to.

But then it's weird because – but then a part of Brandon and Teresa does want to.

So it's confusing.

Yeah, because my whole thing is that like – and if – like your moral ground can't be shaky.

It's got to be firm.

And I feel like their moral ground –

Like the line is always moving with them.

And so it's weird.

It's like, okay, if your concern is for her safety or or her privacy then why are you agreeing to get paid for a photo of the back of her head and why what what is the point that's crazy to me what is what is that stuff that people don't know so i get why we look like yeah i understand we're disobeying or breaking boundaries who asked for money to for a picture of the back of the head yeah like that's that's crazy so that's what saying. Why does the moral ground keep moving? I don't know.
It's one of those things where it's like for years those things would be happening behind closed doors. And obviously we're just kind of like don't want to shake the basket at all.
So we're like, oh, we're not going to say anything. But at this point it's like I think it's only fair that the full full scope of the story gets put out there and for the sake of if carly is the one not wanting this disconnect if she's the one that actually wants to have access to communicate with us and they're not allowing that then this is all i have to advocate for her as her birth parent to get this information out to her in addition to the show yeah and i, and I don't know what they're telling her.
So it's just a whole thing of all the years we've tried to get them on the phone. And it was like, we would have to wait weeks and then we'd get a response and it's very like, it almost sounds like a prompt, like a scripted response.
And we're over here like- Like an AI kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.
We're like, dude, you're're not giving a presidential speech we just want to talk like right and so then we used to we used to kind of like be in denial or in their defense be like oh well they're southern and we're midwest and maybe think we were in the fog like how adoptees go through fog i swear i think there's a birth parent fog i mean i never really thought about i swear i think there is one Like how you said you go through life being like i did the best thing and no i'm so happy because look at her life and i did the best thing for her and i gave her life and i gave this couple of kids and i'm not gonna say my feelings because they could take my i swear i think it's a whole fog and then eventually you get older and you're like whoa no wait this shit is hard yeah it hurts and we also deserve to share express our feelings but it's like every time we do we get shamed for it well it's weird only when we've shared the hurt feelings we've gotten shamed for it you know like if that makes sense like every time we've talked about the good it's always praised and you did such an amazing thing and all of that but the one time i come out and say it doesn't feel like love it hurts and i'm sad people are like sit down that's not correct you know look how dare you yeah be upset about her and it's like whoa i'm just saying you're not saying that they didn't save her yeah i'm just saying that it sometimes it hurts i wanted to like make sure that you got the full story because on your tiktoks you're really passionate and you're very spicy and like you have a lot of opinions and there are strong opinions, which is cool, great.

But if you're going to have an opinion, have all the information and then you can cast it.

You know what I mean?

Which I feel like that's kind of the whole purpose of this.

And that's why we and her were like, listen, we want to make this podcast be an open platform for people who don't agree with us, who have opposing viewpoints or whatever.

Because I think it's important to have how boring would it be to conversate with someone who agrees with you all the time that's stupid right yeah exactly and i feel like it's it can be constructive and help people so i mean that's the only reason why we're like yeah yeah and the whole like when i was making the videos in our discussion i i was having a hard time finding like what the end goal was for both of you But you both have made it pretty clear that like you don't care what happens with Brandon and Teresa now.

So for that, I mean, might as well just keep, you know, airing it out because bridges have been burned at this point.

And there's never going to be, I mean, I don't think a civil relationship.

Again, I think too much has gone down, unfortunately. Do you think that carly's friends have told her about the show i have no idea she goes to very very uh conservative you know private christian school and i feel like a lot of their uh you know they're not into like no social media her phone you know it's very like monitored which is a good thing yeah you thing.
And that's how they live their life. But I mean, I'm not really sure.
I guess when you say the end goal, my end goal with this is truth. And I feel like with the truth, people can form their own opinion better in a more educated opinion.
And so it's like the end goal with this is just the truth. And that is a truth for Carly to know these things and to not be put in the dark, which a lot of adoptees are.
And they're lied to and they're, you know, told things that aren't true about their bio parents. And we after kind of coming out with it, it's like we've kind of seen that.
But priority of adoptees. Yeah.
The priority needs to be the adoptees. Like they're the ones that are most affected by this choice of adoption yeah and they deserve uh to to be you know represented and that we should prioritize their experience and their feelings about being an adoptee and so that's the whole goal of this is to advocate for carly in this only way that we really can i wish we could just talk to her ourselves and ask these questions or her parents would be more transparent with us.

But unfortunately, this is where we're at.

What else are we supposed to do?

And I think a lot of people are like, oh, well, just wait until she's 18 and stop.

And all the adoptees that have reached out and said, do not do that because all we ever wanted was to know that our bio parents tried and kept fighting for us. And so I feel like with that being said, it's like I don't care about Brian Teresa right now.
It's about this kid, and she deserves this. And like I said, unless they told us and said, it's hard for her to see you raising her sisters or whatever it is, I understand that and get it.
So I would be like, hey, we'll step back and we'll be here if she ever has any questions or wants to and we also say like we almost in a way wish it was her because then all this would be not happening it'd be oh so much easier all right cool cool we can just forget about this and it would be hard but i get it yeah um but the fact of the matter is we don't know that and yeah so with those two scenarios that are possibilities i feel a duty to do this and i want to circle back on what you said about you know the adoptees community and everybody um that were telling you never stop never stop do you think that they kind of gassed you up so to speak to the point where it made you want to vent even more on social media, which is what ended up getting you blocked? No, I think it confirms that what we were doing was what we needed to do. Because I feel like that didn't happen until after we said what we said and pretty much announced that we were blocked.
They closed adoption. And then they were like, all right, well, as an adoptee community this is what we feel you should you know what you should do and so if anything it just kind of confirmed for us all right all right here we go let's let's get into this because i feel like the reason why we were blocked it wasn't because kate expressed her things online it was the fact that her expressing her things online put adoption in a bad light and put them in a bad yeah it was starting to show i was starting to show a little bit more of the truth side of our adoption journey with them and i think like them being super conservative and in the south like you they don't want people to look at them in a negative way like for instance when um when theresa told Dawn to tell us like don't be sending any more gifts um it's uncalled for she also told dawn to tell us that you can't send any more gifts or anything it's uncalled for and disrespectful but don't tell anybody that i said that so we were like does that make sense almost in the fact of like you don't want the full truth out because then it's actually showing how you really are being as an adoptive family and then you're telling me that i can't say that though so in turn it's making me look like the bad guy or also trying to like control the whole narrative of our story which as you said what's a sign of manipulation right that's what i was okay see see on social media that's all i, that's all I saw.
I get it. Right.
Which is what that's. Yeah, I get it.
Right. I get it.
Which was my whole point of everything. But hearing your side, it does change certain things for me because there is a lot that we do not see behind the scenes that I guess your goal is to get it out on social media.
Yeah. I mean, it's tough.
And all the comments that I had in like my TikTok and Instagram section, very mixed. I would say it's 50-50.
Half the people support you. Half the people want you to shut up.
Right. Yeah.
You know, and I will say, even though I came in pretty hot and heavy and everything, I'm glad I did because I was educated by people in the adoptee community. They messaged me.
They're like, hey, stop saying giving up for adoption. Yeah.
Yeah. Right.
They talk about the wording. Yes.
Or the savior complex and the gifting thing. They hate.
Yes. They were like, say placed for adoption.
Yeah. And this is why.
Because, you know, and they explained it to me. And I'm open to learning about that stuff.
Right. Same.
Because I've never had to think about that because I wasn't adopted. Right.
And I've never given a child or placed a child up for adoption. See? See? But I'm learning.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Right.
Yeah. That's good.
I'm glad I did because I wasn't adopted. I've never given a child or placed a child up for adoption.
But I'm learning. So I'm glad I did because I'm, you know, and I've made friends with people on social media and everything.
So it's, it's, it has been beneficial. Yeah, no.
And I'm glad you did too, because I think it, it brought the discussion even further, you know, and more just education about it and different sides of it and things like that which is kind of the whole point of us doing this right let's get the conversation going like you said came in hot and heavy it get you know now it's getting this community to be hey this is what we like this is what's respectful for us and whatever then you learn and it's like you know you mean you take accountability and here i am and you're learning and it's great and that's the whole point of all this. Take accountability for what we did wrong and own it, you know, and I think to like through this whole journey and and everything now.
And it's still about Carly. And I but I think it's also shifted and it's made me learn even more as a birth mom.
I've just been talking to it's just shifted for me in the sense of just listening to adoptees and all of their stories and what they wish their birth parents would have done, what they wish their adoptive parents would have done. And so now it's more or less like a lot of them feel silenced.
They feel like they have to protect their adoptive parents' feelings. They feel like their stories are always told for them when it's their story to tell.
And so now it's kind of shifted where it's like they need to have a voice because i feel if you're hearing it from the mouths of the people that are the most affected by it maybe there can be change maybe there's better understanding you know maybe there can be some things that are reformed with adoption that only benefits the child who's the most affected by it all so it's kind of shifted now it's like and that still in turn will help carly in the future because she will see us advocating for people who are just like her to have a voice and yeah i mean that's the whole that's pretty much the whole main goal of all this it's not to you know try to get sympathy from people it's not to try to you know control and get recruit people to be on our side like i said we invited you because you're having a couple opposing viewpoints i want to love that stuff yeah i love the criticism let's hear it let's get into it uh let's talk about it yeah and i think it's just a good way the only way really we have i wish we like i said i wish we could just talk to them and call her ourselves but we can't so here we are you know i mean there's no other way to get the voices heard and and since we're not like you know we're not allowed to call them or text them or send gifts anymore either the reason why we are still talking about it and filming about it for our show and everything too is because you know she's 15 years old what's going to happen she wakes up on Christmas and her adopted, her brother, who's also adopted as opening all these gifts from his birth family. And she's sitting there with nothing from us.
For the first time in 15 years. For her birthdays and Christmas, Easter, you know, stuff like that.
And how are they going to explain that? So Brandon and Teresa are still in communication with her brother's birth mom. Oh yeah.
Right. Because I know that you said in the beginning that.
Yeah. She's very much like them as far as like being conservative christian and like you know like that kind of stuff never ask questions or but she's not blocked from no and i and i feel like in a sense she would always come to me and ask if we're going to give visits things like that because she knew like okay we'll ask the question you know she'll ask hey but i think that's one of my fears is like is you know is Carly sitting there wondering like wow after 15 years 16 years I'm getting nothing and why why am I not getting anything and are they telling her the truth of it all are they telling her that they are the ones that said you can't send gifts anymore are you the one are you telling her all of these things you know and so that's why I feel so passionate about it because like like you said, her friends, what if her friends come across something and they say, look, they're still trying because she's going to talk to her peers more than she is going to be like her parents, her, her friends probably know on a deeper level what she feels and wants, you know? Yeah.
And so that's, that's, that's a thing. Like I, it's just, I don't want her sitting in there thinking like, wow, after 15 years, they just stopped and they folded and they listened and didn't try.
I think it's honestly one thing that Bray and Teresa are going to have to answer. They will.
And I think the difference between me and Kate and Bray and Teresa is that I'm an open book. I have nothing to hide.
I have no shame. And so when she comes to me and asks these questions, I will – I'll be honest.
I'll be honest. And hopefully you're doing the same thing.

So when she does wake up on Christmas morning and for the first time in 15 years not have a present from us, I hope you're explaining it to her.

I hope you're in the right way and giving her the truth.

And not saying, oh, I don't know.

Yeah.

Maybe they skipped you this year.

Like I hope that's not the case.

Yeah, I hope not either.

And I hope that they're telling her that we reach out every year for a visit and they say no next year. And so all those kind of things I just.
Because I do. I reach out every year.
I would. Well, did.
Yeah. Well.
This will be the first Christmas you're not. Sending gifts.
Yeah. Because I think in this regard, it's like, okay, fine.
And everyone's, it's funny because people are like, respect them, respect them. Okay, I respect them.
I won't send gifts. But who's that harming at the end of the day? But who's that harming? I'm making sure Branch Reese are good.
But what about Carly, who's not going to have a present for the first? Especially when adoption is supposed to be centered around the adoptee. And it's not legally binding either.
So it's not like there's anything that you could even do. Your hands are kind of tied in that sense where it's like.
And I noticed a lot of people saying that. Get a lawyer.
Get a lawyer. And I'm like, You guys.
You can't do anything. Adoption is not legally binding.
Which honestly. Doesn't that kind of prove the point.
Of the intention of doing this. Because people still like.
Well just get a lawyer. It's like.
You guys don't even know how adoption works. Like there's nothing legally binding at all.
It's a verbal agreement. With this adoption agency.
And that's it. Yeah.
And so. And I think it's interesting.
Because people will bring up contract that we signed at 16 that said like the first five years or something like that but does precedence not matter? I know you said for the first five years but you continued to have this pattern in ritual and in tradition and so it's like people are like, go back to the contract and never, it's like what? Guys, they are the ones that didn't it yeah it changed it changed which we always say we're really thankful that the fact that it's a double-edged sword right like we're glad that you want to close and you chose to kind of vulnerably open it up more than you ever wanted to yeah but at the same time like it just doesn't make any sense that now you take it away without really a good enough reason. Well, and now the fact of the matter, too, of Carly being 14, it's not like she doesn't remember all those memories.
Right. And she's FaceTime our kids and they talk.
So it's like you can't just cut it all off and pretend nothing happened. I watched an episode recently where they said it would have to be really bad to cut you both off.
Yeah.'re not giving you a reason of as to what it is yeah i'm like we were literally left in the dark and that's funny oh you're talking about the clip that we had yeah okay yes i think it's really interesting to bring that up because i we don't watch the show we don't really some stuff too hard yeah yeah but i have gotten to me. Yeah, it's recreated.
And I think if you pay attention to her demeanor and her – She's spicy. And her delivery.
She is, yeah. And her respect or empathy, it's like it's – that is what we have dealt with the last 15 years.
It's kind of like when I'm expressing a vulnerability, you're like – Like it's like a – you know what I mean? No, it comes across really like, yeah. Like our feelings don't matter.
That's what it's felt like. Yeah.
Yeah. Almost.
It's very, uh, she comes across very, um, passive aggressive at certain points. She can be very bless your heart.
Yeah. She's spicy.
And yeah. Yeah.
So, but she doesn't like when, you know, I don't think she wants to be kind of painted in that

light.

So.

So I guess we're the ones that get in trouble for that.

And I mean, you're an easier target because you guys are on national television.

Right.

Exactly.

But I also feel like what a missed opportunity.

You're an adoptive parent.

You could have really helped the community in adoption.

You could have really been a voice for adoptive parents. You could have taken this opportunity and really just put a different light on it.
But you didn't. And you're okay with it sometimes and not okay with it other times.
And it's just inconsistent. Then it's like wishy-washy.
It's like, oh, whoa, but you were fine with it last year. But okay, now you're not.
Now we're in trouble. And we were able to say the word sisters for years.
And now we're not allowed to say that word because you don't like it. And it's just so weird.
So like you said, there's way more, you know, and I'm sure they have a whole another side too. Right.
And I would be down to hear it. Yeah.
And I privately and have a conversation, you know, like I would. Yeah.
And I asked you Tyler about like your only fans. Like, is that the thing that like really did it for them? They're like, Oh no no we can't have this because she's tattooed on you yeah I think her name I think it's interesting too because all this stuff happened so much not not the considerate closing completely but it she's had issues before that ever happened right so was that the cherry on top I have no idea I I'm not I don't know and you said that you had asked her on the live.
Like how did, please tell me how that conversation went. On the live.
What do you mean? Yeah. I was like, did, was the only fans that did it.
And you're like, I've asked, like, who did you ask? Because I would love to hear that conversation. Well, no, I asked Brandon and Teresa.
Like, did you see my, no, no, no. I asked Dawn.
I was like, is anything that I've done online? If I, any new things that I've done, like, you know, I didn't say outright say it, but I was like, yeah yeah if she would have told on that that would have you know triggered dawn's brain like oh yeah this yeah um but no and and honestly and we shut it down i shut it down i said just think you know because that's a good point okay i get it you know we live a different very different lifestyle than they do and i think that's okay to have different morals and ethics and what's good and what's not and so so even if that was the case, fine, take it down. We took it down.
Shut it down. Shut it down.
I can respect that. And I did.
You got a lot of backlash for your OnlyFans because, you know, you guys gave Farrah a bunch of crap about, you know, being, you know, doing what she did. He apologized.
Yes, you did. And I think a lot of people forget that because I went back and rewatched.
And you guys admitted that you were wrong for that yeah i mean so i i mean i've done what i could in that especially like being parents now you know right you have daughters and stuff like that like obviously what i want i'm going doing porn or you know but no if they want to take spicy photos or they feel really good about themselves then they want with our girls we talk about body all the time all the time sexual like talking about sex and stuff like that shouldn't be looked down upon like because it's a natural thing right so there are certain things yeah where it's like what yeah we did give her a hard time but i also but you acknowledge you're wrong and also and also i think is it not safe that things change your opinions change people evolve like people like things evolve Things that were taboo 10 years ago are not taboo now we have more information on it and and so i think people should not be so concretely oh my god it's like no no wait we are allowed to shift our values are allowed to shift and change and move with new information and new data and that's what's happening so i feel like all i can do is say uh i'm sorry for the way that she uh was treated yeah um am I do I feel she's very not a nice person right you can just like her for a couple other things yeah and I think people get it confused that that's why she was fired and it wasn't she used team on the title it was a whole produced film versus a paid paywall 18 and older website which is blocked by, you know, so there's a difference. There's a difference.
I'm not saying that like it justifies anything. But should she have gotten a bunch of hate for it? I mean, no.
I mean, there's porn stars. There's sex workers.
Well, it's because she said it was a home video. Yeah, and it wasn't.
That was our production. Me and Ty used to always say like, don lie just be truthful about it just to say it no one cares yep I did it

I'm on team mom

I want to capitalize on my shit

and this is how I did it

I'm like girl

yes

I want to follow

Kim K's thing

and you did that

it's fine

I think the approach

was really weird

because you're like

trying to pretend

it's just

yeah there is a little bit

of that

where it's like

I would apologize

to Farrah and tell her that

you know

I don't think she'd really

hear it

no maybe not

but we do

she might hear that now

yeah she might

maybe I don't know

I'm not really sure

but I guess

I'll see you next time. tell her that you know i i don't think she's really hear it but no i mean not but you know but we do she might hear that now yeah she might maybe i don't know i'm not really sure but uh i guess it's all i can do right right accountability okay yeah we took the only fans down just in case if that was a thing i think it's really clear though do i agree that that is not morally correct it's like no i i have we have freedom and everyone does according to them though because they're super super religious right right but i think it's one of those things where it's like uh we're allowed to live different lives and have different religious beliefs and then it brings up the question too like so you know just if this was the case it's like you know you have people that work at strip clubs and they're strippers and they dance and they show their tits and some can be fully nude you know there's underwear models on billboards right but like you know are strippers not allowed to have children or does that hurt their children i don't know does yeah kelvin klein models and their underwear are they not allowed to have children you know so right it's a hard thing to balance but that's why we just said well we'll take it down if that's their reasoning yeah that we don't know if it is or not just in case yeah do we think we're morally wrong no not really i think it's empowering it's freedom and that's what it is and i think anyone pamela anderson she's allowed to have kids just because she did her thing doesn't mean she's not allowed to be a parent i think people the backlash is like you have children it's like well yeah and how do you get children you have sex you know, how do you like, you know, and eventually those children are going to be adults and do the same fucking thing.
Yeah. And what's the difference between a model on a billboard in Times Square or a bathing suit guy in a bathing suit at the beach? Like your children.
So it's like it's it's I think it brings up an interesting topic. Yeah.
I think that's the only reason why you got backlash was because of what you guys said to Farrah. But like you said, you guys did.
People need to rewatch the episodes because I think all of you, Macy included, acknowledge you were wrong. Oh, for sure.
I mean, it's all we can do, right? Right. It's all I can do.
I can't. Exactly.
We're very accountable. I can say, oh, shit.
Yeah, that wasn't really good. And I'm sorry.
And my morals, they have changed. They shifted.
Yeah, my beliefs have changed. Yeah, I have more understanding or whatever the case is.
Yeah, I mean, so this whole thing is just messy. It is.
And it's gotten to a point where it's like I only have control of what I have control of, which is us sharing our story. And so that's what we're going to do.
And I feel like if people are going to go online and have strong opinions, I want you to have all the information. And so that's the whole goal, really.
I mean, it's not our job to protect brain trees. And I think people even kind of deem that as controversial.
But when you know their operation, how they've handled this for the 15 years, it's like it's hypocritical to think that we're're not protecting them they're not even doing the things that they said you know publicly yeah so it's it's just the whole thing is it's just messy it's messy they're pretty behind the scenes and everything which is why i'm glad that we had this conversation and everything because we don't know the full story until we ask the right like ask the questions from people directly yeah yeah and that's why i thought it was important to talk to you because i mean you know it's just important for people to know there's two sides to every story yeah and you're and you said you also you're the child of an addict you're an addict yourself we talked about this on instagram which i commend your sobriety i think it's amazing and great you got me googling like how do i become like yeah yeah but um so i think that's really great and uh but i wondered I'm like I wonder if that is why your opinion was so strong about oh they're manipulating for sympathy and I was like oh I it's kind of interesting because I wonder if you are almost saying that because you you're you've done that you spot it you got it you like you like you like you got it you've done that as an addict yes I've never been an addict yep um but you have parents that have taught you certain behaviors that you've inherited whether you know you guys are aware of it or not you guys by the way you guys are not your parents i just want to clarify that yeah you are not your parents um but i mean when you're the child of an addict like they teach you oh yeah i mean i would i would be lying if i say that the way that my mother uh was growing up didn't it didn't affect me in a good voice it has yeah I've had to do lots of therapies to re to rewrite those ways you know mine's more or less like social monitoring and monitoring and creating or uh controlling emotions when I walk into a room of other people and so I you know what I get're saying. Yeah, but I get your perception.
I just feel like, you know, that's why I asked about the whole thing of where's the line of me sharing my story versus now manipulating for sympathy. It's kind of a, you know what I mean? Yeah.
So I don't know. After all of that, I don't really know what your updated version of thinking is or not.
If we changed anything, if we brought awareness. It wasn't the goal.
Not that it was the goal. I it was a goal yeah that's not so i'll tell you what i and be upfront honest i'll be upfront and honest okay i still think that venting is not a great idea just because of the negativity that it attracts okay but at the same time brandon and theresa's hands are not clean yeah so i think that there is blame on both sides I think that it's messy it's not black and white this whole thing is gray um and I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about this because I feel like it's very unprecedented you know yeah nobody has ever had an adoption story on national tv in this way right yeah and it's continued on 15 you know or so years later so I feel like there's no roadmap for you guys to go off of there's nobody that has walked in your shoes before this is a very unique situation yeah so I don't know although I mean we judge it on tv and everything but I don't know if I can judge completely because I don't know all the facts about things that have happened behind the scenes.

But I'm glad that you guys share that, because when you reveal certain things about Brandon and Teresa and how, you know, they're not doing their end of the bargain, it does make me look at them differently. I'm like, hmm, yeah, I would probably vent.
I was going to say too because I wonder if now with that understanding, do you think that some of your opinions on other reality TV or anyone that you talk about pop culture wise it's you should try to just i mean as much as you can try to like dig into that that makes you what you do even better yeah it makes you better at your job because your job is just a yeah when i do deep dives i try to show all sides um i did one on the chrisley family i'm very interested to meet uh lindsey because i've talked about her on there too um but i do try to show all sides because there are all different sides to different stories so yeah so now that carly is about the same age of being 16 like you were when you got pregnant and the start of the show what would you guys say to two 16 year olds that were going through the same thing and thinking about placing their child up for adoption? I think my biggest thing would be, um, you have to, I would, I'm going to help you with research. Yeah.
We're going to research this together cause I'm an adult and I can help you. And you deserve resources.
Yep. Um, I think also I would give the advice of like really get to know these people don't only just meet them once you know get find somebody who wants what you want if you want an open adoption let's look at all the couples that want really open adoption meet with them more than once let's go to barbecues you talk to the just talk and talk and talk and talk as much as you want.
Um, for, I would do my whole pregnancy. Yeah.
You know, as soon as I knew I was going to make that decision, I would have continuously done that. But I also feel like making the decision of placing your child for adoption.
I think it should be like really talked about that. That should be the last resort.
The first resort you should have is support resources, being being a young child in a crisis situation. And adoption should be the very last thing that you look at as an option.
There are options. There are grants.
There are foundations that can help you. So I feel like – And we were never told any of that.
Yeah. It was pretty much – we were pretty much told that the best thing for you to do is let go and do this sacrifice for her.
And so, of course, we're like, okay. And like I said, we have adults telling us this thing.
So we don't have adults saying, hey, you know, there's someone who will help you get an apartment and there's someone who will get you a crib. And this company will help you get a job and get on your feet.
Yeah, like that wasn't, you know. That was for you.
It was like, it was this or nothing. Yeah, it was this or go home to drug addicts.
And be stuck in chaos. And be stuck.
That's pretty much much what it was it was like you take her home and you're struggling or you place her and she's gonna be completely great and there were times when we're going through the adoption where it was told to us like well what's best for her are you gonna take her back to your bedroom and have a crib in your bedroom with your alcoholic and drug addict parents and we were like oh my god so in a way it's like you they make you it makes you feel like not doing the adoption is wrong and you're a bad parent already and you haven't even birthed this child out in the world yet so i feel like yeah i feel like kids who find themselves in situations but also you can find yourself in this type of situation at any age it's not yeah it doesn't just happen you know to young kids um i feel like being educated about all of the resources that there are in the world that can help you if you decide to parent. Also, if, say, you choose that adoption is what you want to do, get legal representation for yourself.
And learn about adoption trauma and what that means because all adoptees inevitably face it and we were never told any of that i wasn't told the statistics that my adopted child would be way high higher likelihood of drug addiction of suicide of mental health issues especially because i mean addiction runs in your family too so even higher yeah mental health does so now she's even double dose dosed because then she's placed like they don't tell you none of these things right so i think that's why when i say there needs to be some sort of reform and there needs to be deeper things talked about because then we can make the best decisions for our children right you needed an advocate watching you're 16 and pregnant i was like my%. Like, you needed somebody truly on your side that was there for you.
And his mom most recently just, like, got really upset. Like, we're super close with Ty's mom.
And she got super upset, and she just apologized, and she said, I am so sorry that I wasn't educated enough to not know that adoption wasn't the only choice either. And you can tell she's regretful about that.
I can see it, yeah, in her face and stuff. And it sucks because we're all years out of it, and now we know.
It's almost like if we would have known, not what we know, you know? And so you're right. We did.
We deserved to have adults, you know, looking out for me after we gave. And we never even watched it, so we can't.
I don't even know. You've never watched it? No, I can't.
We only watched it once when we were young. Oh, I can understand.
And we never watched it ever again. So I can only imagine what it's like after knowing everything now and going back and watching it.
It's probably a whole different... It's hard.
It's hard to watch. I mean, it's hard for me to watch.
Well, yes, now you know. You're a team.
I'm a historian, so now you're going back. Right.
You know, it's like... It's wild to see.
Yeah, it gives a different context. And the fact of the matter, too, she was like literally after placing Carly for adoption, everybody saw what I was going back home to.
All the adults in my life saw what I was going back home to. And you were a child.
There needs to be more resources for the birth parents and education because I was just sent back into the chaos. And actually, it was 10 times worse than what it was.
10 times worse because now they're all attacking you and it's like it was horrible. So I think that's what I would just – yeah, I would love to just talk and educate them and give them all the facts and they'd probably think I'm annoying after a while because I'd be like this, this, this, this, this.
Read this book. No, but good for you for using your platform for the good because people need it.
Yeah, I'm trying. Well, hopefully now that you have a platform too, so hopefully hopefully now with new information, you go on your platform and say, hey, adoptees, like this is, you know, or anyone.
Or I learned more, or, you know, I heard more, or this is what I still believe, and this is what I changed opinions on. Yeah, because the whole goal is not to persuade you differently.
No, I get it. I just wanted to hear opposing viewpoints and then obviously the information.
I think we both were able to see where each other were coming from. Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
And so, you know, I just really thank you for taking the time. Thank you for having me.
This is great. No, this is great for you.
You're about to blow up. But I think even in the future, I think there's other conversations we could have about different things.
Yeah. I mean, addiction.
I mean, I really want to have you back on and kind of dive deeper into that we could even do it via like a zoom type of app and stuff too from home and I just really appreciate your you know your opinions and your thoughts and your inputs on the situation and just thank you for coming yeah thanks for coming on Kate and Ty break it down thank you and remember to stay curious yeah and where can everybody

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