We're "Trauma Bonded" and We Like It

welcome you guys back to kate and ty break it down we are on episode don't even remember nope don't recall um but we appreciate you guys listening and chiming in and we've gotten so much feedback we really have like we've been using our instagram page to kind of like kind of bring you guys into this whole experience which i think is the best because you guys bring up stuff that we never even i would never even have thought of no i know and i forgot i did i posted another like what juicy juicy secrets thing today and um because i always think it's so fun just to like yeah uh and i forgot to look at it i posted it this morning um so i really like that you know tyler and i we can create polls and ask you guys questions or you know we really want to do a segment called like unlicensed advice because we're both not therapists but we can kind of of give you what we would do in a certain scenario or situation. You're hanging out with friends and you're like, hey.
Right. And I saw somebody's comment on it was like, can you just be my unlicensed therapist forever? I was like, that is funny.
Sure. Sure.
I'll do it for free. See, like there's already some good anonymous secrets.
Yeah, I might have to pull those up at the end. But for later on in today's episode, I do have some of your guys' questions that you wanted unlicensed advice on.
So we'll talk about that later. And just so everybody knows, whenever you send something in, I always keep it anonymous.
So that way, you know, it just keeps people private. I think it's good say like hey you can say my name right even if you tell us so that you we can say your name we're probably not gonna say your name i think it's better when it's anonymous because hey it just works you don't have to worry about you know people figuring out who you are or whatever yeah yeah for sure so i know like you were talking about what you wanted to talk about certain things to have on the show.
I was thinking about talking about like mental health stuff. I think it kind of all comes together in that realm.
Okay. But I think it's important that we, in the beginning of this, kind of go through stuff that we feel we should just clarify things on or explain further or whatever.
Okay. And the first thing that I was like, well, what I see a lot of is obviously people are taking the clips that we filmed, you know, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago, whatever.
And they're kind of using it in nowadays way. And like, oh, this is what was going on back then.
Trying to dissect it. Yeah.
Whatever it yeah whatever they're trying to do and um and of course it always comes back to like your when you were just had severe postpartum depression and when you were down and out and when you were worried about your weight and and remember we did a whole it was like a whole season oh my god that was the worst season. It was the worst season.
Actually, it was like two seasons. I feel like we had a certain producer and it just wasn't working.
Well, no, but I just felt like also too, it was just very like weight driven. Like the whole story was about like my weight and I'm like, why is this a subject? Especially when I just had a baby, mind you.
Yeah. And then we're talking about weight.
Like that's not good good for any female. Yeah.
Well, I also feel like it's almost like when you're filming a reality show, it's like you bring up one thing. Even if you're just talking to the producer, like, just chilling.
Right. And then they go, oh, and they, like, attack that situation and go, okay, let's, let's, let's.
Because they're like, oh, that's interesting. Like we said before in previous episodes where we would say stuff and they're like, that's interesting.
We're like, what? How? How is that interesting? And I feel like that season was like the moment you mentioned about losing the baby weight because everything was about like oh you're you're our first child we're parenting you know whatever you're getting married now and it was all came all about your weight and i remember being like we talked about it all the time you always mentioned about like i want to lose weight i'm going to do weight watchers i want to do this i want to do that and so we talked about it a lot and it never it never was like a negative bad thing i i like but i think when you're in a situation you're filming a show and they're like hey hey hey hey we're eating a meal right and we're talking about and they're like hey so how's the weight loss thing going right it's like oh of course and what's an awkward spin on it it's like why i wouldn't really be talking about this while i'm eating dinner like what i feel like when that situation was going on it was like what the what the tv didn't show was that behind closed doors you were talking about how bad you want to lose weight yeah how i needed to be held accountable yeah because need help with those certain things. And you, those are your words.
You're like, listen, you need to hold me accountable because I'm not good at this. Like, okay.
And I'm like, I think, you know, 10, 11 years ago, I was, my delivery was off. I messed up tremendously with my delivery.
I won't say my, I don't think my intent was wrong. Yeah yeah i just feel like the way i delivered and expressed that intent was wrong oh i couldn't yeah i understand what you're saying and especially when you're filming a show and they and this is like the fourth time they've asked this question right it's like all right you know how much points is that like what what's you know after a while it gets super annoying but i did it because that's part of our job when we were filming.
So I just feel like I've been seeing all these comments and the people tagging us. And I'm like, well.
I think the biggest one that I see the most is people always play that scene where you're like, well, I don't want a heifer for a wife. Oh my God.
But they don't know the backstory of it. Like, it's not like you met.
It's not like you were saying that I'm a heifer. I'm going to be a heifer.
You know, but I feel like that's how people take it. Like, we joke around shit like that all the time.
Like, you always say, like, well, I'm sure you wouldn't want getting down and dirty with somebody who's got a big old beer bag. Yeah, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I joke about that stuff.
Yeah, and I feel like in that context, like, I notice a lot of the clips they play, they don't play the afterwards where it was like, well, do you think I'm a heifer'm like no my god no well right because i'm like tiktok and stuff they'll edit it you know where they so it hits their narrative and it works good for their story right but um i'm like you know like that heifer scene bro i will never you'll never go to live that down ever live it up but i think it's interesting because they're they play it as if i called you one yeah they do you think. Do you think I called you a heifer? No, I do not think that you called me a heifer.
Great. Yeah.
I'm so glad because I remember thinking, like, you don't, like, there's no way, like, I hope that never came across like I was calling you a heifer. People must really think that I'm just, like, some abused pushover.
You don't know what I mean? I don't know, honey. And that blows my mind.

I have no clue.

Because as far as just like how we talked in the last episode

about you forcing me to do an adoption,

now you're calling me a heifer and I just stay with you.

What the fuck?

Like, do people must really think I'm like a weak bitch?

I don't, I think.

That's how it comes across to me.

I'm like, wow.

I think what they do is they try to understand why, why would this, what's an excuse for her to stay or this to work out? I don't have to have an excuse. And that's the thing.
There is no excuse because I never called you a heifer. It was a producer asking Tyler, what do you, what do you look for? I can't remember what she said.
And I was like, well, obviously I don't want no, I'm being honest. You asked me what I wanted or didn't want.
And I was being honest. And I felt like just the same way I'd ask you, do you want some big old heffin' dude? You're a drinking beer belly guy.
And you're like, no. And I'm like, all right, cool.
Now, I think it's ironic because I think if you said that, I don't think you'd get as much hate. Probably not.
Do you know what I'm saying? It was the fact that I had said what I said and then I'm a guy and you're a girl. I think it just, obviously I get it.
Yes. Looking back.
But, and then I also feel like when we were doing all those scenes and they were asking, it always brought up when we were eating. It was like.
Yeah, it was all the time. The quesadilla thing.
Oh God, yeah. Oh, you know, how's the weight loss going as you're taking a bite? And I'm like, oh, it just came across so harsh.

Well, and I think for me, it was just like, why is this?

I just don't understand why it's becoming the whole part of my life.

My life is so much more than me, like, wanting to lose weight before I get married, you know?

Yeah, but also, one thing that they don't understand is that it was like two seasons.

One where you're pregnant, and then I felt like they just kind of continued on with the weight thing after that because when you're pregnant you had gestational diabetes yeah and your doctor was like it's a big concern and you went in there and you gained it and there she was like you can't yeah something something happened yeah but yeah but i do i do recall though like i had my gestational diabetes on point you did like yeah i was very because it scared the shit out of me do you remember when I went in there I was like crying like oh my god what are we gonna do I can't eat chicken strips with ranch like that was my shit you know but so no I was very and um so at that point when I found out that I had just gestational diabetes I was like so anal about tracking stuff and my sugars were so good and I ended up not gaining any weight after that because I was so like, it scared me. Yeah, it scared the hell out of me too and that's what I think people don't understand is that I was making these I was making these comments and these concerns I was bringing up these concerns based off of like being concerned.
I was like, I'm concerned because she lists all those, I went to the appointment with you and she said all those things that could have possibly happen to the baby yeah the baby could be bigger like all this stuff and i'm like what like it sort of freaked me out so i felt like the way it was portrayed was that i was like doing it in a um like an aggressive control yeah like like you motherfucker what the hell's wrong like play i like seem to take it in but it wasn't like that i i was concerned i was scared i was gonna say you were more you're more or less concerned for me my well-being and the child that is ours that i'm carrying yeah you know i also feel like it comes down to like i'm i'm concerned for your health i just so my intent was my concern for your health my delivery did not wasn't wasn't very good. You know what I'm saying? You're a very like, I know you, you know? So it's like.
They don't. Right.
And I know you on such a deep level where, you know, you're very blunt and very just like, oh, you know what I mean? But I know what, how you are. And also people don't see behind the scenes when I'm like, shut up, you fucking cocky fuck, you know? Like, you know what I need to say like you're cocky as fuck you know or i come around and fucking show my finger up your ass you know dude i don't know about any other guys out there but it's so irritating dude because i like to poke his wife just anytime anything random and she comes out with this finger trying to shove it up my ass and i swear to god like it makes me cleanse up well yeah i know it would be very weird if you liked it you know i don't know but yeah some guys probably like that the hell are out there yeah so i guess but i feel like i don't know i just feel like that that's something i see a lot and i'm like i take full accountability for my delivery it was wrong i we were also kids was young i was naive i didn't know about postpartum depression i didn't know about like i guess my main thing was that i knew you didn't take it offensively no i didn't and so if you would have said that i asked you to hold me accountable you did so and so and they didn't put that on camera, obviously.
Well, that wasn't filmed, though, either. Right.
And I asked you, is this hurting you? Are you offended? And you said no. And so I feel like you would have.
And if you would have said, yeah, that really hurt my feelings. I would have been like, holy shit.
Yeah, you would have felt like shit. I'm so sorry.
Yeah, that wasn't my intent. Like, oh, my God.
I'm so sorry. I didn't mean mean to say that but looking back at clips and the music they play and how they cut i mean i see people's perspective yeah and like you said maybe your uh delivery was wrong you know you think my delivery was wrong i mean i can see like how people could internalize what you said in a different way with your delivery.
Yeah. Yeah.
But you know,

so that's what I'm saying.

Like I know we've been together for so fucking like,

do people forget that shit?

Like we've been together for so long that like,

I just know you as a person and I know that.

And also too,

like I know your heart,

like you're not the type of person that is going to want to say degrading

things to me because you love me.

Yeah.

And vice versa.

So,

and I also feel like I trust you to tell me, Hey, that was fucked hey that was wrong i would say that hurt my feelings yeah and i'm like oh my god you know so i don't know i just feel like that was something that i i see a lot which i'll probably never let that down probably not and people are still gonna always think that i'm a weak ass bitch okay and they're gonna still say that i called you a heifer and that's i mean it, it is what it is. That's fine.
Well, if you watch the clip,

you don't say you're a heifer.

I don't want you as a wife.

You said,

well,

of course I don't want a heifer for a wife.

Like that's different.

And I was literally answering the producer.

She asked the question and I was answering her.

I was like,

why don't I know heifer for a wife?

I mean,

she asked me that question.

Yeah.

So like what I would want or what I didn't,

what I wouldn't want.

So I was just answering the question of my truth,

I guess. You know what I mean? But, but then there's also a scene that I forgot we filmed and it was like we're eating dinner uh with your dad and his girlfriend at the time I've seen that clip recently and I watch it back I'm like oh it was rough that scene was it was cringy yeah yeah it was bad because it was like the whole table was like well yeah that's going on 1200 calorie diet and blah blah yeah and um and they they aired my part speaking about how oh she used to eat so much so little and now oh right and they eat like a bird you said it first you're like why used to eat so much little and then they and then i was like i piggyback off what you said and was like yeah she used to eat all the time and get really full and they didn't air the part of you saying it first about you saying, well, I used to eat really not a lot at all.
Yeah. And get full really fast.
So it just, but that scene, I was like, ooh, God. Yeah, it looked cringe.
And then I thought about my, ooh. And then my dad was like saying stuff and his girlfriend.
Yeah. I was like, dude.
And I think I was just irritated with the whole thing. So my face was just like, oh my God.
Because that was probably the fifth or sixth conversation that producer wanted to have. That we've had about weight, yeah.
Those two seasons were just... Yeah, that was hell.
It was. It was annoying.
Isn't that funny, too, how you see clips and stuff that people post, and you're like, I don't even remember filming that. even know that what is filmed well i think a lot of it when you were at postpartum depression

was pretty like blurry because i remember you were like on the couch a lot and i remember being like

the cameras were coming to film and i remember feeling anxious because i'm like oh my god you

know like maybe we should go film in the kitchen or something because you know you were like down

on the couch a lot or whatever and so like i want i remember feeling anxious like oh my god like i

don't want to i almost look like yeah no no i almost i didn't want i didn't want them to see you in that way like i was i was so like worried about you that i was like i don't want them to see her in this way you're like this is not my wife yeah it's not her this is not who she is like well we were married at that point but yeah yeah but i i didn't know about postpartum depression so i didn that's what was going on. I had no idea.
I just didn't know what was going on. You know what I mean? I think it's crazy because, yeah, like, you know, people ask me questions a lot about the postpartum and stuff.
And the weird part for me was I didn't even know that I had it until I was out of it. Which is crazy.
Yeah. It's wild.
Like, when I was going through it, I just was going through it, I guess. But when I got out of it, on the other side of it, and looked back, I was like, oh, wow.
We were very disconnected. You were very, like, couch, phone, bed.
Yeah, and I was very, I also was like, I don't think people realize, but that was in the beginning stages also of my mental health decline. That was the first time in life that I've ever experienced anything with mental health.
Panic attack. Yeah.
Yeah. Any massive panic attacks out of nowhere or anything.
So I also was on like a massive high dose of antidepressants, which is crazy because it didn't even help with the postpartum depression. Come to find out, you know, years and years down the road, when I did a genetic testing, found out that that medicine wasn't even working within my body.
So it makes sense why it wouldn't help the postpartum because it wasn't even helping me mentally, let alone. You were literally like a robot.
And I think people don't really, people like, I think people look back at that. And a lot of the scenes that were aired were us talking about certain stuff too late for your appointment and i and at that point i am so naive with postpartum depression in general and also just frustrated yeah that this is happening and i'm not understanding why we're about to get married i'm like who am i marrying what's this is what I mean? I'm going through my own shit, but I, I didn't want to like pour all out because I didn't know what was going on.
And so I was trying to tread lightly and I just, I guess I sucked at treading lightly because I, I am too blunt and I just speak and whatever. Like I, yeah, I just know.
I just remember feeling very stuck.

Yeah.

Super like stuck and also concerned that is this the rest of our life? Is this what it's going to be like? This is crazy. Well, and like you said, it comes from just people being uneducated about postpartum depression.
And then also you look at it now. I mean, now we're, you know, as we've dug even deeper about the adoption stuff.
I never knew that, you know, first moms or birth moms, they have a way higher likelihood of having postpartum depression when they go to parent their children. And of course, now that I'm like older and think about it, I'm like, of course, that's totally logical.
Like, how could you not? You know, your body remembers all the stuff that you went through with this baby that you placed. Of course, it's going to freak out when you have another child.
Yeah, it's like post-relinquishment parenting. Yeah.
They call it like, you know, a birth mom who was placed and then she goes on to have other kids. Like, post-relinquishing parenting is a super triggering thing.
And I think, honestly, look back at it, I think that's exactly what happened. You had Nova.
We were all were all we're supposed to be happy and you're like why am i not like feeling like what's going i think it just was subconscious shit yeah it was just like your body remembers the score yeah your nervous system like yeah because even after we got married and stuff too i still had it like people think that postpartum depression is only for a few months, and it depends on the person. It can last up to, like, over a year with some people.
Somewhat a lot longer. Yeah.
And there's very much different degrees of postpartum depression, too. I think mine was just, like, anxiety.
Yeah. Yeah, because it's not like you didn't bond with Nova.
Oh, no, I definitely did. Yeah, about like not even a bond didn't really hold didn't like have the desire and you weren't like that at all you just seemed very robotic it's just like i remember talking to you and you'd be like you know yeah and i was just like god there's not there's no like like reciprocal anything that was overly dozed too and you were like just just just this numb, walking thing.
I mean, that's definitely how it was. I think I couldn't feel anything.
I was just there, if that makes sense. Yeah, that's what it felt like.
I remember when my great-grandma died, and I was like, I didn't even cry. Yeah.
And I was like, how do I not feel? I think I even remember telling you that. Why don I'm not even like, why don't I even just feel sad about it?

Like you didn't feel happy, sad, excited, nothing.

You were just kind of there.

Neutral.

Yeah.

Very neutral.

Yeah.

It's so weird when you think about it because you were not ever like that.

No. So I knew something was off.

I just didn't know how to deal with it.

And like, yeah, I don't know.

I just feel, looking back, I just feel really bad.

I wish I would have been more educated. I wish someone would have like pulled me aside and said like hey have you asked for this have you tried this have you done that you know what i mean i was just trying to like i was almost like trying to pretend like it would just go away well don't beat yourself up too bad about it i mean we all didn't know no i was going on i i was i was i was um what do you call it? I was worried, frustrated, angry.
I was worried for sure. But I think the worry manifested into frustration.
Cause I'm like, all right, get up. We're going to go for a walk.
You're like, come on. Like, you know, and, and then when you just didn't want to do it or you had no enthusiasm, I was like, I just want to shake you.
Like what's wrong with you? Like, you know what I mean? Like, so that concern turned into frustration. I think the frustration is what was delivered when we were filming because they wanted of course to dive deep into that oh she's on the oh let's go and i'm like you know so yeah i don't know i just feel bad i feel if i can go back in time i wish i would have been you know much more educated and more softer well and obviously you must have you must have had a a change of thinking or mind eventually because it wasn't even documented but i mean when you came up to our room you know um when i was upstairs laying in bed and you just said something's wrong are you okay and then they gave me the freedom where i just broke down i was like no i don't think i'm okay like i think something's wrong here you know first you know? At first, I remember at first, like, I don't know.
And I was like, you don't know? Like, I mean, usually people answer like, yeah, I'm good. Or no, I'm not.
You were like, I don't know. And I'm like, that's what I'm saying.
Yeah. And yeah, like, I remember, like, going up to the room, too, because obviously when you went up there to take a nap, I just left, you know, I'm like, whatever, it's fine.
But I remember going up there, I'm like, I can't do this anymore this anymore because i remember thinking ahead of there it comes to a point when you're dealing with someone else who has a mental illness or has something going on where um uh burnout fatigue it's like you get well it takes a toll on the other person the caretaker gets like caretaking fatigue they get burnt out they feel whatever they feel and so i felt like i can't do this anymore because then what? If I lose myself by trying to always protect this,

then... they feel whatever they feel and so i felt like i can't do this anymore because because then what i if i lose myself by trying to always protect this then then what well right now noba's got two parents who are checked out you know what i mean because i'm over here you know whatever so i remember going up to the room and just being like we got it something's gotta something's gotta happen right something's gotta change well i remember you were the very you were a driving force to being like going to go see a psychiatrist.
Like there's people you can talk to, you know, all of the things. And also I feel like it was a blessing that I had you in my life during that time because your mental health journey started at a younger age.
So you kind of knew about seeing, seeing psychiatrists and therapists and thing like things like that.

Mine literally just smacked me in my face.

And I was like 20. younger age so you kind of knew about seeing seeing psychiatrists and therapists and thing

like things like that mine literally just smacked me in my face and i was like 20 or 21 or something yeah and i never experienced anything like that in my entire life so i was like what is this feeling this is scary you know so and you knew kind of the steps to push me in the right direction to help myself. Yeah, it was scary.

I mean... Oh, yeah, it was scary for you.

Because I also feel like people don't know what it's like to be the other person. They're like, oh, my God, you know, I feel so bad.
She's depressed. And she said, but no one knows what it's like when you love somebody watching them do it.
Yeah. Watching them just crumble.
Yeah. In front of you.
And like, you can't do anything about it. Like, it's like you feel so helpless.
It's like, god like what do i do so i feel like at the same time i was going through my own stuff just putting it on the back burner yeah well no but knowing that i'll come back to this yeah like you said i had a little bit more experience with like therapy and stuff like that being younger kids so i knew i was like i'm just gonna put this in the back burner i'll visit visit later. Yeah.
But you were the priority at that point. So I feel like, you know, I just, I don't know.
I just feel like the postpartum depression stuff needs to be talked about more. Like, I mean, it does.
You hear these stories on the news of that one, you know, the one mom killing all three of her kids and jumping out of the window, trying to kill herself. There's been a newer story too, about this mom shooting all of her kids and then shooting herself.

And they're all linked back to postpartum depression.

And it's because there aren't enough resources out into the world to help women.

I mean, you go to your doctors and you answer, like, a test.

And if it comes up that you feel like you have postpartum, they're like, here's some pills.

But nobody directs you into, like, here's, you need to go to therapy. It's normal.

It's okay.

Here's support. Like, there needs to be more support for women after birth.
Yep. And just help out there.
Well, it's one of those things too, like you said, you went to, you go to the doctor and they say, here's some pills. That's half the treatment plan.
Right. Any psychiatrist or therapist will tell you pills are half, 50%.
The other 50% is therapy. Like, dude, you can't just take a pill.
If you could just take a pill, everyone would be on the pill. We would have no mental health crises, right? You could take a pill and everything would be fine.
Yeah, that doesn't solve it. So that's the whole point, is that pills are 50% of the treatment plan.
Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't...
And even 50. Yeah, I mean, it's...
It might be a little less, because you haven't been going to talk therapy and shit, it's hard ass work. Hard.
Yeah. And scary.
Yeah. Like super scary.
But, but I don't think people realize too, when you talk about being the other person and watching your person that you love to, those people need support too. Like the caretaker, you know, the, yeah.
The burnout fatigue. Yeah.
I didn't know about it at all. So my therapist was like, oh, you're, you're burnt out.
And I'm like, okay, I'm a'm a dad. And yeah, sure.
Yeah. No, no, no.
You're not understanding. It's like a thing.
It's like a caretaking fatigue. Like you literally, and they can lead into caretaking.
You can get depressed. Right.
Oh, it makes sense. And I remember, like I said, I was freaked out.
I was like, oh my God, I can't afford that. I said, we can't both be depressed people.
Like, you know, like, oh shit. And it was like 10 months ago.
They god like what and so i remember like learning about it and reading about it and oh okay like this is what i gotta do and that's when i kind of was like that's though that's when i was kind of like okay i can't put this in the back burner for too much no bring it forward but uh yeah i just think yeah i think the the post-birth resources for women should be higher. And I think, uh, yeah, I just think, yeah, I think the post birth resources for women should be higher.
And I think, yeah, like I said, I vividly remember you go to your OB answer like a little spreadsheet, yes or no questions, one out of 10. And they're like, Oh, you're okay.
Or Oh, you're mild or Oh, you're severe. And it's like, Well, here go, you know, you had to get on a Zoloft or whatever.
And it's like, Yeah, yeah okay but what about like support groups or psychiatrists or just counseling out there now where you know like people talk about their experience and also like what about genetic testing like why are we not genetic testing is what you do to figure out what your body metabolizes as far as medication goes it works for everything from Tylenol to antipsychotics. I'll tell you exactly what medication will not work and what medication will work.
Why we're not implementing that into the medical field is weird to me. That should be literally a paid-for insurance-covered thing where you get a genetic test done every time that you go to a doctor.
And then once you get that list you know okay that why why be a guinea pig yeah for medications i don't know because i mean when i was in when i was in treatment and the the doctor there was like i think you should know do you want to do genetic testing and he explained it to me about how yeah you don't have to do the guinea pig stuff and you find out what works for your body i was like absolutely it was expensive but it was worth it yeah my insurance wouldn't cover it but i was like i don't care like that's important to me and then i got the results back and he was like you were on 200 milligrams of zoloft and your body was only metabolizing like 20 25 milligrams and i was on the highest dose and i was like oh my gosh it makes complete sense and even with him he was like of course you're still experiencing all these things even when you're doing therapy and stuff. And so.
Which I think it brings up a good point. People say, oh, she got back from treatment, went back to it, going back to it.
It's like, no, no, no. She went back to treatment because her symptoms were not gone.
They weren't gone. Well, because.
And now we know why. Well, because the first time I went there, I didn't switch any medications, nothing.
I went there for like really intense therapy and it helped a lot. It did.
But then I came home and I felt like something was still off and I was like, you know, I need to go back. I think I need to switch my meds and stuff.
And then I went back, did the genetic testing, still was doing very intense therapies and stuff like that. And then when my results came back, that the medication I was taking wasn't even working for my body, We switched my medications, all of that, continued on with therapy.
And honestly, it literally changed my life. Yep.
Genetic testing. Isn't that crazy? Changed my life because now I'm on the lowest dose of an antidepressant medicine that you can take.
And I don't feel like a zombie. I still have emotions and feelings.
I can still have conversations. And I just feel, I honestly, it saved my life.
I feel like. I think it did too.
Because after the six weeks or whatever, after you being on the new stuff, I was like, oh, wow. Like there's a little bit, I can see a little bit of light coming back.
Right. Yeah, it really, it changed, it changed my life for sure.
And I think, you know, it's been a journey for me, but I feel like it, people are always, you know say like oh you're you were so selfish and you left Tyler to take on everything and I'm glad you were and yada yada yada but I my whole thing too going into it though was like if I'm not 100% me I can't even be nothing for my children let alone my husband or myself like I want to be the best that I can be you know i think i'm proud of you because i think in spite of that like you were worried about oh my god he's gonna be oh god yeah burden and he's gonna feel this and he's gonna feel that but you still like i it's worth the risk like i had to do it for myself i had to do it i remember i'm just i look back damn so i did that because we wouldn't i had to do it i mean, like, it ain't no fucking vacation or walk, like a cakewalk when you're at those places. There was lots of tearful nights, tearful days, clinging on to Nova's little stuffed animal all the time.
You know what I mean? Like, and you're, because you're working, like, it's very intense. It's emotionally exhausting.
Very. And you're missing your family, and your family can't always come for visits.
And, you know, fuck, I was there for fucking Christmas one year. Like, that shit sucked.
Thanksgiving. You know what I mean? Like, it fucking sucked.
But I knew I had to do it for myself so that way I could be 100% me to then show up as a wife and as a mom. And it was scary, but it definitely, it changed my life.
I think it saved it. Yeah.
So I don't know what would have happened. And I, I, I've commented or even like said stuff to people before where I'm like, oh, okay.
So Nova could have a mom that was gone for, you know, six weeks, 12 weeks, or she could have a dead mom. Yeah.
So what's, what's worse? Oh, it's true. And that's what I think people don't understand is that.
And also like, I remember, remember telling you that I can't do this anymore.

If this is what it's going to be like, then we just, we're not going to work.

Yeah.

Because there comes a point in time where I have to retreat and I have to figure out my

shit.

And I think when you got back from treatment, that's when I felt the freedom to do so.

I was like, okay.

Well, you can tell that I was okay.

I was getting my shit. You're good.
Yeah. I was learning.
Yeah. And then you got back and I'm like, all right, you feel, I feel good.
I'm going to, now I'm going to put the, back on the front burner. Right.
And I, and I think people criticize me a lot for that, which is fine. I mean, they criticize you for leaving.
They criticize me for forever. Yeah, of course.
We're always going to be criticized. It's fine.
That's what we what we're here for. But I remember getting criticized because it was like, oh, you know, now you're going to do a trial separation.
Now you're going to do all these things. And it wasn't about...
Which, by the way, he actually spent the night at my house a lot. He couldn't leave.
Ha! I was like, I thought we were supposed to be, like, separated and you're still coming over here every night. I can't help it.
I can't help it. I thought that he wants to play big bad, you know? No, I, Hey, I know.
I fully admit I was a bitch. I could, I didn't do the therapist that I was seeing.
I mean, you did for a minute. The therapist that I was seeing was like, this is what, this is what it's called.
And it's called, you know, you just kind of like, you know, you just separate. Just separate to focus on yourself for a little bit.
Yeah. It feels like.
And then I remember going to my therapist after a week of it and i was like no ain't for me and she's like well why and i'm like well because i i i said i don't i want to be with my wife i want to be with my kid i said and i supported it like it was hard for me yeah no i know and i know it was hard for you too like it was a hard thing you know um but i feel like i was like if you feel like that's something that you need for yourself, then do it. Yeah.
Yeah, because I think that's, I mean, that's what, it was required, I think, for me. Because I was like, I have to do this or else what am I going to do? I didn't want to work out trial separation.
I was like, he loves me. That was an epic fail.
But I do remember there was a part of me, like, when I was at my mom's one time and um my friend showed up at my mom's house and i remember like crying and i was like what if he divorces me who's gonna want to be with somebody who has two kids i was so scared remember how i would mess the whole time be like you're gonna divorce me no i remember you're gonna divorce me the very first time you ever asked me that i said divorce is not even on my radar yeah And I was like, that's bullshit.'re going to divorce me. The very first time you ever asked me that, I said divorce is not even on my radar.
Yeah, and I was like, that's bullshit. Who wants to divorce me? It wasn't even close.
I wasn't even thinking about divorcing. I'm thinking about, I got to separate myself from the, and I think it was important for me to do that because when you were gone, I got in a robot mode of kind of like monitoring your depression because her know was good.
And I got in like, my own dad robotic mode and i knew that i had to like remove myself from it so that way i could like look at it from a different perspective and you deserved the time to i mean yeah because me leaving put a lot on your shoulder yeah it was hard i mean yeah missing and then on top of it you know it's being a single dad yeah i mean schools and yeah just all of... Schools and all.
Yeah, just all of it. And so I knew I needed to get out of it.

No, it makes sense.

For your own mental health.

I was like, for a week.

It was longer than a week, but you would come over and spend the night.

I would come over and spend the night.

Uh-huh.

And then I remember thinking, feeling guilty.

I mean, I got to go back to the house because my therapist told me, I'm going to do this.

That's why I feel like I'm breaking the rules.

I'm not listening.

Well, I feel like it's important when you were going through that just to feel like you needed to do whatever was necessary for your own self and i look back at now and it wasn't necessary but maybe it was i don't know i don't think it was because i and i'm not saying don't listen to your therapist i'm saying follow your intuition my intuition never told me to do the trial separation my intuition was saying then why did you do it i because i i i'm not a professional therapist okay and she and she was talking about all these things and i'm like okay so maybe maybe there's things i think her therapist just deep down hated me honestly no i do i always got bad vibes from her really yeah you did no way swear like she is fucking warping his brain are you serious i mean she helped me loud alphas i mean No, that stuff, yeah, but some of the scenes and stuff I've seen, I'm like, she is fucking warping his brain. Are you serious? I mean, she helped me out.
I mean, she'd talk. No, that stuff.
Yeah, but some of the scenes and stuff I've seen, I'm like, oh, she hates me. She thinks I'm crazy.
Wow. I never got.
Okay. I mean, I guess you're watching it from your whatever.
Okay. Yeah.
But I mean, I don't know. All I know is my intuition was saying otherwise, but I knew I had to be logical because I'm not a mental health professional.
I could be addicted to you.

I could be whatever the fuck was going on.

We're trauma bonded.

Yeah, we're trauma bonded.

Oh my God.

That's why I'm just a weak ass bit.

Hey, listen, I'll be honest with you, everyone out there.

If we're trauma bonded, I really highly suggest it.

Right.

Because we...

And honestly, we have sat down with very, very smart professionals and asked the question if we are trauma bonded, and we got the word, absolutely not. And they also said that everyone to a point, if you're with someone long enough throughout a period of your life, you will bond over trauma.
Of course. It won't be the only bond you have.
No. But you go through, like, for instance, growing up and being married for a long time you know your the spouse's parent dies that's trauma right you're gonna bond over that you are of course i think it's interesting when dr mike was like well everyone's trauma bonded and i was like whoa whoa what does that mean and he's like well everyone he's like what i mean by is that there's a healthy level and there's a toxic level right he's like and like, and, but everyone, just like everyone to a point is codependent.

Yeah.

We have to be here or else all babies would die.

We'd all, we'd all die.

So, um, he's just, there's a, there's a spectrum and a level of where it's, where it's toxic.

We need to get him on here and talk to us about trauma bonding.

So put the fucking.

So everyone knows.

To put the record straight.

Yeah.

Because he was like, absolutely not.

The bad trauma bonded is when you're like abusing each other and be you know just very toxic things yeah um so it's like okay so if you're going through something hard and i'm supporting you and loving you and doing good things for you to make you feel better that's trauma bonded okay okay well love it yeah oh we love each other i don't know bring it you call it trauma bond i it support and love, and I don't know what else to call it. I don't, yeah, I don't understand it.
Hey, if we're trauma bond, I highly suggest it for people. So, I mean, I've confirmed that we're not because we've got confirmed from multiple people.
But, hey. Like I said before, and I'll probably, people will hear me probably say it a lot on here.
It's like, well, I sleep i sleep good at night next to you so and i enjoy our cuddles and our snuggles so you know we're not abused and you know what i mean like people think i am well i well it's like when i you control all of my things i'm a dictating motherfucker um but people like it's also even with our friends and stuff i'll see like in here some of their issues in their relationships and i'm like whoa yeah i think we're like i mean like dude like i don't think people understand we don't fight no we don't we don't raise our voice nothing no and we've never called each other out of like our name yeah i think it's almost like kind of weird, like, kind of weird that, like, I almost, like, something's wrong with us because why are we... It's not nothing wrong with us.
No, I tell you. Other people, yeah, they...
You just don't know how to communicate. We have done such a good job of, like, navigating and building.
Well, and honey, we've been together for, like, what? This year will be, what, 18 years? Yeah, 18 fucking years. Yeah, and we've done a lot of work throughout all of the years, you know? So, of course.

I just think it's interesting, though, how it's like

people, well, every couple fights,

and I'm like, that's not true.

No, I think do we have... It's not if you fight,

it's how you fight. Right, like,

do we have disagreements? Of course.

Can we talk about them? Of course.

But I'm saying, like, I would never consider

anything that we've had a fight, in my

opinion. No, I think the only fight I can

ever recall was the one time...

Do you remember that? Are you thinking

the But I'm saying, like, I would never consider anything that we've had a fight, in my opinion. No, I think the only fight I can ever recall was the one time...
Do you remember that? Are you thinking of what I'm thinking? I don't know. Are you thinking of what I'm thinking? When we lived on Clinton Street? And you threw the keys in my face? Oh, no, I think I was pregnant with Carly at that time, wasn't I? I don't know.
The only one I can think of, so yeah, is that one when I threw the keys at your face. Yeah.
And then one when we were drinking though this was before kids or anything drinking like 20 or something yeah and we like got in a fight in ryan terhune's car and then i was like walking down the street dirt road always yeah and then you were chasing me and then we got home home. And then we were arguing about, like, who each other followed on fucking Facebook.

Oh, wow.

I don't remember that part.

Yeah.

I remember the fight walking on the dirt road all drunk trying to catch it.

No, no, my girlfriend walked down the road.

I was like, we got to get her, dude.

By the way, we were not drunk driving.

We had to drive.

No, yeah, he was driving.

Yeah, he wasn't.

But we were like, I'll remember saying, like, don't let her walk.

I'm walking home. I'm like, dude, we're 50 miles from home in the back roads in the in started it i don't know either but but yeah like we don't there's any we just don't fight so i feel like and i'm saying like it's not if you fight it's how you fight right and i think how we fight i wouldn't call it fight but how we disagree is not toxic.
It's not. No, it's healthy.
We have a conversation. We always come up, come to a conclusion.
I think me and you are both the same in the sense of like, I would, I cannot go to sleep without having a fucking conversation and coming to a conclusion. Even if that conclusion is like, you can do it, but I just don't agree with it or whatever but i could not again like i gotta figure out a solution right now yeah and i think it's important because it's like one of those old cliche things but don't go to sleep mad at each other that's a legit thing well that's my personality though i wouldn't be able to just sit next to you in bed i'd be like i'd be like or like i know there's a lot of like people we know they'll like just pretend that nothing Yeah, which that's the worst.
And that's the worst. I could never deal with that anxiety.
Just sweeping the shit under the rug. It's always going to come back up and bite you, by the way.
I could not. I couldn't do it.
Absolutely not. One thing going back to mental health, though.
I do remember my first psych class in college learning about how if you're going to have a mental illness it always typically comes before the age of 22 when you will have like a mate like that that by that time if you pass 22 it's like way less likely for you to come and have a mental health illness or whatever and i remember being so mad that i fucking didn't make it one year i was like this is some bullshit it had to It had to be handed to me right at fucking 21. I mean, I look at my, like my childhood and shit, everything that I went through, adoption, all of that.
I'm like, of course, how could I not? Fuck. But I remember being pissed about that.
I'm like, wow, if it would have just waited one fucking year. One fucking year.
But your panic attack was pretty bad. And I don't think people realize that it literally, I've never experienced anything like that in my life life and then to literally be woken up out of a steep sleep with the i thought i was having a heart attack i went to the hospital three times made him give me ekgs i didn't know what the fuck was happening yeah it was wild it was a it was bad but thankfully years and years out of it i do i'm glad that i went through what i went through because now i'm so freaking self-aware like i can tell to a t like oh i need to call my counselor or you know like what's that like even with something with your mom recently and stuff you're like i'm calling yep i gotta talk to somebody process this with somebody it's kind of crazy because look at the look at the polarity like i don't need to come in the bedroom and say hey are you okay something's wrong with you you know you go i i'm something me.
I got a call. It's all about learning and growth and learning about what tools you need and all of that.
I'm proud of you. Thanks.
Well, thank you for being there for me. Yeah.
I love you. And for Nova.
I love you too much. Let's just hope Nova doesn't carry any trauma from that.
I don't. I mean.
I hope not. I don't know, honey.
We're going to definitely traumatize our fucking kids eventually. In one way or another, right? In another.
Okay. So.
Moving on. Yeah.
I do have one more thing to say about it, but I don't know. What? What do you mean? Well, one of my things is what also is like fucked up with the world.

We talked about postpartum depression and there being no, you know, like not a lot of things out there for women as far as help when it comes to that. I think another really messed up part is if you do not have money.
I know. And you have a mental health illness.
they want you to stay sick. Because the amount of money that I spent out of my own pocket for my mental health is ridiculous.
It is. And it's wrong.
We're the only country that has this problem. So they want us, they want the poor to stay sick and poor and they want the rich to stay mentally well and rich.

Enabled.

And that's horrible.

It is.

Any Joe Smough from the walks of any part of the earth that is struggling with mental health deserves to get help.

I agree.

And it should be covered.

Absolutely.

It's a mental health thing.

Absolutely. But I think the whole problem is that we have to eventually get to a point where we're looking at it as a real we need to look at mental health the same way you look at diabetes oh my god your diabetes you diagnose okay great epi pen diet change like you know you get a treatment plan right we need to literally look at mental health the same exact way and so it's an illness to incorporate the mental health into the full biology of health issues.
You know what I'm saying? Stop separating it. Yeah.
And stop like demonizing it and stop like, you know, just stop. Stop doing that.
It's a health problem. Yeah, it's sick.
Come on, dude. Because like I said, Nova could have a dead mom or a mom that had to go somewhere to put in some work.
Yeah, or divorced parents who are, yeah. Right.
And that's a whole, yeah, so it's like. And I don't think people realize that.
Like, I literally was at the point where I was like, I cannot live another day like this. Like, I would rather be dead.
Yeah. And that's what I was concerned about.
I knew something was wrong. I'm like, dude, I really, yeah, I just, yeah.
That's not a good feeling. No, no.
Suicidal ideation is fucking real. And I also think it's crazy, too, because I'm just glad that you never had to deal with it like watching some I think I like I think you'd have a hard time if you watch me just like completely just oh my god horrible times just like because you're you start it's hard I'd be doing what you did I'll be like alright we're going here yeah we're talking to this person also it's hard enough to question is something wrong with me oh remember when I was like it like, it's gotta be me.
I gotta be like, you know, and you're like, no, Tyler, it's nothing with you. It's me.
It's my own shit. It's my mom.
It's my life. It's my trauma.
And I'm like, are you sure? Because, you know what I mean? Like, it's hard not to internalize it. Like, okay, she's just not happy with me or something.
You know what I mean? When it back, it's like, no, I just have a bunch of shit in here that I can't figure out on my own. Yeah.
to figure it out yeah so that shit should be free because there was a few times where i was like i'm about to go check myself into the loony bin in new baltimore you were like absolutely not oh you're not and i'm like well i need to go somewhere yeah shit put me on i want i need a sticky grip sock vacation in the fucking hospital.

Put me on a 72-hour hold, bitch.

Paper dress, sticky sock.

Padded room vacation.

That's where I was at.

Straight up.

Damn.

Tell you what, this sounds good right now.

I need a 72-hour hold.

No, I'm just kidding.

Oh, shit.

So I did get some unlicensed advice questions. Okay.
Unlicensed advice. I love it.
Okay. So I wrote down four different questions.
But one is, how do you have a relationship with a toxic parent without getting hurt? I would say boundaries is the only, it's the only way to do it because I mean boundaries. And I think people should understand the difference between boundaries and ultimatums.
Yeah. You can't give ultimatums.
They are two different things. And I think people can sometimes like mesh them together and they're not i think it's hard to well a boundary is to protect me and an ultimatum is to control somebody else and their actions and their behavior right you can never control somebody else's behavior impossible can't do it waste of time you're gonna drive yourself crazy trying to do right so do you know so you can't you just first off get those two things out of your mind where i think people my boundary is you don't you don't stop doing this i'm gonna do this that you know a boundary is not a response to them doing something wrong or bad in spite to spite them it's it's it's for yourself it's to protect yourself it's it's right you know what i mean right yeah like for instance so with my mom you know i had to create

boundaries in order to make myself feel comfortable and safe and my boundaries with her is just don't

drink around me and don't drink around my kids if you're gonna drink let me know ahead of time and

i'll say all right i'll come we'll get together next weekend or whatever i'm not saying you can't

ever drink right you know because then that's me trying together next weekend or whatever. I'm not saying you can't ever drink.

Right. You know, because then that's me trying to control her.
It's just. So in a way, it's almost like your boundaries actually more or less like your boundaries to yourself.
Like my boundary is I will leave and remove myself from the situation if I notice her drinking. Right.
That's the boundary. Yes.
The boundary, it's nothing to do with her, you know, personal behavior. It's like, okay, well, boundaries are also really, nobody can enforce a boundary but you.
Right. The person can't, you are in control of enforcing the boundary or not.
And make yourself feel powerful in enforcing it. Because it can be scary to enforce your boundaries.
Especially when you're so used to a certain dynamic. Yes.
It's hard to break that. I was called a was all gods yeah and i remember it's funny because i remember bringing it up to you like years in your relationship where i'm like you have a you and your mom have a certain dance you do and that's the only i could explain it i'd watch it happen in real time and come to find out it was like your dynamic that's the dynamic you created with your mom and so it takes one person to stop moving i'm gonna stop dancing yeah and the other person starts going whoa you missed a step we got a twirl what are you doing you know what i mean yeah and you're like i'm not doing this dancing the right way and right well i'm actually just kind of stopping this dance i'm stopping this dynamic i'm switching it to something more healthy for me and unfortunately too, I think to other advice for this person is, you know, if your parent

is not respecting your boundaries, then you might have to step away for a while and just

say, like, if it's her still hurting you in a sense, then and they're not respecting what

you asked to make you feel safe, then I think you need to kind of cut ties with that person.

Temporarily or permanently.

Or whatever feels right to you. Yeah.
And kind of reevaluate after the fact. Yeah.
I agree. Okay.
I have another one that said, how do I talk to my partner about not being satisfied in the bedroom without hurting them? I would just, first of all, I'd be honest. You have to be honest and communicate.
Yeah. I mean, I think going into it with the intention of trying not to hurt their feelings is going to be messy.
Right. And just go into it.
Maybe go into it in the fact of like, we're going to make our sex life fire. Yeah.
Like going into it. My goal is to make this amazing.
Right. Not to criticize you, not to judge you, not to make you feel like shit about yourself.
It's so literally just, I'm trying to get the best out of this. Right.
So, I... Because it is hard.
I can understand, like, being nervous. Yeah, especially if it has something to do with them, like...
And this was a female talking about a male. Okay.
Yeah. So I can get where she's like, I don't, you know, I don't want to hurt his feelings or make him feel like i guess i guess my thing is though is that you can't worry about hurting his feelings you first need to just ask yourself what do i want what do i need what am i missing and then you fill in the gaps you don't need to tell them why you're like well it's like just just okay this, just, okay, this is what I want.
This is what I need. And then my whole thing is that like, it's completely a possibility that what you want or what you need, you can't do.
Okay. And that is something that I think people need to like get comfortable with.
Then what do you do? It's a whole different. Okay.
Right. Right.
So we got to first establish, this is what I need. Can you need can you provide yes or no okay right and then i think asking yourself the question to yourself first before asking him i need this and it's like well he can't do that you know what i'm saying like and then kind of like kind of prioritizing it in your own head before coming to him and saying it because that by if you do it to yourself in yourself in your head, you can go, okay, Oh, but you know, that could help.
And so I definitely think don't approach him without having your own solution. I thought about it, what I want and what I need.
And here's a solution. You know what I mean? And that I thought of, do you have any solutions? Is there anything I can do? Also, I think reciprocating like, Hey, I'm going to tell you what I wish you could do better or what I'm missing or what I need and then invite him to do the same exact thing.
Yeah. To say what, okay.
Because there might be things he's not telling you. Exactly.
And that's what's kind of creating this weird like, oh, I'm just going to say nothing. I don't want to hurt your feelings.
I don't want to hurt your feelings. And it's like, well, you know what? If we're in this for the long haul, I've always said this.
I'm not afraid to hurt your feelings. I can apologize later on if it happens.
But we got to get to the nitty gritty. Well, you got to be real and talk to each other.
Because me and you are a firm believer that that is one of the pinnacles. You have to be honest.
You have to be honest. You have to communicate.
And you have to have a healthy sex life. That's it.
I mean. And so when I saw her question, I was like, how what would i do in that situation yeah what would you do i was thinking like if i was in that situation like when we were getting it on i'd be like oh like talk even in that sense when it's happening like oh when you do this it feels really good right you know do that again or that yeah that was really great or oh that hurt don't do that yeah you know because it's you don't have to be like silence.
Right, right. It's like quiet in the middle of being intimate.
Like, speak about what feels good, what doesn't feel good. I think sometimes it's also better because you're in the moment and it's organic.
You're not like, you don't have time to go, oh man, alright, she didn't like that last night. Right, so maybe that would be easier to her if you don't want to hurt his feelings.
Like, oh, when you do this, that feels fucking amazing. Or when you do this, that, oh, no, that hurts.
Or I don't like that. That's weird.
Right, right. I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm thinking about, oh, my God. If we're in the middle of doing something, you're like, ew, don't do that.
But, oh, what? Well, you don't say it like that. You say, ah, no, that hurts.
You're just talking about pain. I know.
Not every girl's getting hurt. True.
So what I'm saying is that is that like if it's not having to do the pain

and you're just like

or you're just like

oh I don't really like

I don't like that

because what if

in the middle of

role reversal

in the middle

I'm like ew

don't do that

or I won't say ew

yeah

why would you say you

don't do that

okay I think we have said that before

I've said that to you

I think I've said that to you before

because you're thinking of pain

like don't do that

you know

you gotta get

okay I'm thinking of like

not everybody's in pain

so what I'm saying is that

if I

vice versa

you don't hurt me

besides when you had to

Thank you. because you're thinking of pain though don't do that you know you gotta get okay I'm thinking of like not everybody's in pain so what I'm saying is that

if I

vice versa

you don't hurt me

besides when you had the fucking IUD

but if I said something

like

don't do that

that wasn't hot

I didn't like that at all

I guess I'd have to lead you

into conversation

why

yeah why don't you like that

yeah why

why don't you like that

maybe that's what needs to happen how How about everyone just, you know what? Hey, whoa. Let's just, okay.
So there needs to be some honest communication happening. And I think, listen, you don't always have to use words spoken.
You can write it in a note. You can text it.
Everyone feels safer. Just communicate in the safest way for you.
But I also think like talk about your needs and wants and then come up with your own solutions. Or at least ideas of a solution.
Yeah. Because what I'm telling you right now, I think even man, woman, if I tell you, I don't like that.
And then you go, what should I do? And I go, I don't know, but I don't like that. Yeah, it doesn't help.
you know what i'm saying like so figure out what your own solution could be so that way you have options to like well so that way you have a very productive conversation about the issue could you imagine i don't like you do that and you're like what should i do different i don't know don't do that i'd be like oh yeah not help me at all so i'm not doing it right but then you don't know what i need that needs to happen but it's it's it's interesting that you bring that up because one of the things I kept seeing from our Instagram was uh the the frequency like I I think when we when we say the relationship advice I a lot of it's sexual like a lot of it yeah like has to do with a huge part of a relationship which I think reiterates my point that I think it's one of the number one pinnacles thing yeah so it's like if I mean what's the frequency some people are like oh i don't i don't want it more than once or twice a week i want it four times a week and it's like that's also an important conversation i also think there are therapists that are specifically yeah for this issue yeah sex therapist will probably open up all the doors you need to be opened in a safe space and then you have a mediator where you don't have to feel like you're hurting his feelings or something. And you talk to a therapist outside and be like, this is my problem.
Okay, we can deliver that in a way that protects everybody. Right.
It's great. So, boom.
That's even something to look into. Yeah.
All right. And so the last one that I thought was, I thought it was good.
And obviously this person is wanting to go about this the right way.

I wasn't really, it's kind of a hard one for me, but they said, I'm wanting to adopt, but we are struggling with trying to find the most ethical options. In your opinion, do you think there's any ethical adoption? Hmm.
I don't necessarily think there is an ethical way to adopt that is completely fully child-centered unless all parties are trauma-informed people yeah that means the parents the birth parents and whatever like they both need to be very trauma-informed about what adoptees experience. My opinion, I don't think infant adoption is ethical.
I just don't. I think foster care adoption is very ethical because you're already going to children in a crisis who need help.
They need help. They're already born.
They're already here. really the foster care system is full of children yeah you know yearning for that so i think the question is what do you seek to get out of adoption do you seek to be a mom to a newborn baby and be able to raise the baby from a baby to an adult because that's So you probably shouldn't adopt.
If so, I don't think you should adopt because no baby is a blank slate.

You don't just get a baby from separated from its mother and has maternal separation trauma and preverbal trauma and stuff like that. And it's a blank slate.
I try to make it your own. It's not, it's not going to happen.
And that's an unfortunate thing. I think if you're struggling with infertility that you should you should go and heal or at least start the process of dissecting that infertility trauma way before you adopt way before you're thinking about it and if it comes to the point where you do want to adopt i highly suggest the next step is through foster care.
I don't think private infant adoption is ethical in any way that I can find out there. So yesterday, I was speaking on a live with a few adoptees that we talked to.
I was on live with them. And then also this birth mom on there, or not this birth mom, this adoptive mom that's on there.
And her herself, she said, you know, she adopted her son. It was through like foster care stuff.
But she even said in turn, if she could go back, she would even do things differently. And she said, I would do like a legal permanent guardianship.
She said, because then his birth certificate would have stayed the same. A lot of his rights would have stayed the same, but I still would be considered like a parent to be able to make all the decisions for him but um and i was like wow that was very shocking to me and i was like i'm very proud of you for saying that because even she you know and she is a very open adoption um and so yeah i know what you're talking about she actually said that um that she was not trauma-informed when she first adopted and that she learned so i had to really learn as an adoptive mom.
I had to break down my own stereotypes that I built in my head. And she was like, I used to justify some of the decisions I made.
I used to justify my desire to be a mom by minimizing or pretty much avoiding the fact that it was trauma-based. You don't have adoption don't have adoption without trauma right and so i thought it was interesting this person that wrote she's like she's not finding any ethical options and it's like because there's not no there's not any ethical options that's why when we're talking about infant adoption we're talking about the adoption is not necessary kinship adoption aunts uncles somewhere grandma yeah anything that's the first option i think if a birth mom is in a situation where it's a crisis and she can't do this and it's not actually first option should be like resources well of course no no right option yeah we would be like kinship adoption kinship adoption and guardianship i even know like the word using the word guardianship is a really, it's the same thing.
So I think, I think all prospective adoptive parents ask yourself, what is my intention for doing this? Is it to help children? Right. Or is it just to become a parent? Become a parent because your infertility trauma does not make you entitled to anyone else's baby.
And you can, you can't justify that desire by saying i'm saving the kid i'm helping you that's gross don't ever say don't ever say you're not no that's disturbing adoptees don't like that and then it also just reiterates what adoptees think like oh they saved me and i need to be grateful i shouldn't want to find my birth family right i shouldn't be having these issues identity crisis that I'm having because I should be grateful and take care of. And that's just not something you do.
So I think any prospective adoptive parents read the primal wound, talk to a therapist about your infertility trauma or why you can't have a parent. Or start the process of it.
Yeah. Because it's got to be very painful.
Yes. I know that there are some people who they just grow up and go, I don't want to my own natural kids i just want to adopt okay if you want to do that foster care right help the children who really need it and are already born or be like a very great foster parent to help their biological family get on their feet and do the parenting classes care is designed for reunification with the biological family.

And that's why.

Because we know that that's best.

We know it's best.

There's data out there.

So just don't go into this blindly.

And also don't go into it selfishly.

I know you want to be a parent.

I understand that.

And I think your trauma about not being able to be one is valid and it's real.

However,

that is your responsibility to figure out. And it is not the responsibility of an innocent child to fulfill that hole or that had no choice who had no choice um to rob them of their biological identity etc etc to fill this void that you have because you can't have your own children yeah that's not fair that's not child-centered if you adopt it needs to be child way around.
Beautiful. I think so, too.
Yeah, because my first thought to her question, I was like, well, permanent legal guardianship. That's the only way that I see it being ethical.
Because then that gives the birth parent some rights, too, and some protection. And also the child.
It's the child. And you still have guardianship.
You still can make all the legal decisions. It's primary, custodial I mean, yes, forever.
There's no difference. Yeah.
Adoption is literally just strip them of everything. It's a legal transfer.
Yeah. That's all it is.
Like it's literally, there's nothing else to it. So, so that was my thing that came to my mind.
Um, but all right guys, well, thank you so much for joining us and listening to this episode. Make sure you like and follow everywhere that you can listen to podcasts and um we just again appreciate all the love and the support that we've received and it's been fun we love it so subscribe like share comment whatever you give us all the love give us all the love we need it all right we'll talk to you guys next week.
Have a good one. Bye.
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