Friendship Fallouts & Controversy with Kail Lowry

okay so we're here we're finally here kale you're on kate and ty break it down i'm so excited are you excited yeah i'm excited too because we're working together again and i didn't know if i would ever see you guys like in person again here we are and you guys trusted me enough to even ask me for advice and i was like fuck yeah like this is my bread and butter because i'm like all right Let's read up to Kale and ask her about it.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden it just turned into like I had no we had no intention of like oh we'll work together and do this. You weren't going to sign to my network? Well at first we just wanted advice.
No Kale was not. I didn't know what was going on.
Really? You were going to? Hell no. People were like what? Well like that that wasn't our first thought honestly.
It was more or less like you know she's really good what she does she's a friend of ours we like kale you know like i'm gonna ask her some advice yeah and then eventually it progressed that way and i said we would be stupid not to i was like yeah like literally will i any help you guys need like that's what all of us are here well it was authentic and you've always been like that so i was like well it'd be stupid not to act do all of this. I also think that I have paid my dues in the podcast community and where like I have been

through three networks.

And the first one I went through, there was like lawyers and litigation and things like

that.

And I understood that a lot of podcasters enter the podcast world and don't own their

content.

And so signing to my network, I fight for anyone that signs to killer to own their own

stuff.

Thank you. podcasters enter the podcast world and don't own their content and so signing to my network i fight for anyone that signs to killer to own their own stuff so if you decided you're not happy with me you take all your shit with you right i'm not gonna try to capitalize off of your shit which is awesome i say shit yeah i'm not gonna try to capitalize off of what you have built right i mean yeah because i went through that that's been really really important to me like even if someone chooses not to sign with my network, like go somewhere where you're going to own all of your content and you get to take that with you and you can't be replaced because a lot of times what will happen is they'll say, oh, you built break it down.
Perfect. We'll change the names and add two new hosts.
Wow. And they'll use all of the audience that you built.
Right. Wow.
Put someone else there. And so I advocate for that to not.
Well, that's why when we reached out, it was just out of advice at first and then you were like i mean this is what's going on i'm like all right well it seems authentic enough and what yeah yeah what else what do i have to lose you know i mean so it's like you know ty and i we've known you for years and we there's been many moments where it's just been us and you and we talked about deep things and you're just a very authentic person and you know so i was like well i'm just glad that we all got to work together. I think that a lot of people also think that I burnt bridges with MTV and like don't.
Oh, they do? Yeah. Because there was a scene where it's Larry.
There's an iconic scene where I'm in my podcast, one of my podcast studios. And I like flip Larry the bird.
But it wasn't, it wasn't. I think people perceive it however they want to perceive it.
I wasn't flipping Larry off off you know what i mean and so people think that i burnt the bridges with mtv and then i don't have relationships with like you or macy or who are you flipping off i think just in general like i was just like fuck this sort of deal not sort of like fuck larry or fuck mtv it was just like i was not in a good state of mind but it was just sort of like fuck well because in reality Well, because in reality, it's like, how could you even realistically say fuck MTV?

Cause it's like,

you wouldn't,

we wouldn't even,

we wouldn't have what I have without,

I mean,

so I was like,

that's the thing they're like,

well,

kale is,

she has to remember where she came from.

No,

a hundred percent. I do.

And I give flowers and I,

I give credit where credit is due all the time.

I understand that MTV is where I started.

I understand.

But I also feel like some of,

some of the cast,

this is no shade to anyone. Yeah.
Some cast members take that platform and launch and propel themselves into different directions and some don't absolutely so to say that I still owe them something when I've said thank you I've paid my like I've done all the thing I've literally exploited my entire life I also deserve credit for propelling myself wait so platform yeah what you have done with that platform you've yes so people think you still all you're saying that people like i should still be thankful i mean i think you are yeah that's like never gonna go away right right but but it takes away i was gonna say and that it feels like that they take it away yeah when they're not when they're not seeing what Right. To really, like you said, propel yourself to bigger things.

It's sort of like when Ty was talking to us about how like people getting mad at him for your decisions and your power and your choices.

Yeah.

It's sort of like that.

Like, yeah, I know where I came from, but I also have sort of paved the path for other opportunities.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And thank you to MTV for giving me the start. You know what I mean? Right.
Yeah. Right like you said, that'll never go away.
And I think that's normal. Yeah.
Yeah, it's not like you're out here bashing MTV or trying to... Right, I get mad sometimes.
Who doesn't? I mean, who doesn't? Who doesn't? I get mad sometimes. But when you think about our show, I mean, as far as Team Mom goes, it's the only one that's out there that's like this.
I mean, nothing has been followed this diligently, this intense because we're not a party show we're not housewives we are like us nitty-gritty middle of trauma parenting and just marriage is divorce i mean the whole thing and i feel like for you addiction yeah for you that was a big thing it was like all your relationship stuff all of that even my friendships which was something that macy and i talked about Oh, okay i said all of my my falling outs with friends or even just like separating from friends were so public because they were such a huge part of my story on mtv which they're a big part of my life like in general do you regret like having your friendships be so involved on in the tv world do you okay not in a way that i i don't regret the, but I think having them so publicized, but I don't have family members that can be on the show. That's exactly what my thought was.
What am I supposed to do when you want me to have a conversation? It was sort of like, and I hate to say this, but like Farrah really didn't have anyone. Right.
So that's when they, if I remember correctly, that's when they started having to break the fourth wall with her producer because she literally didn't have anyone to talk to. Right it was either that or i was talking to friends and so i think in that way like obviously i needed to have those conversations but at the same time i do think that it changed the dynamic and the intentions of the people that i was talking to was like it either didn't start off authentic and genuine or it turned into something where they wanted to have a following they wanted to get paid they wanted to wanted to.
Something out of it. 100%.
And I think that's where a lot of them sort of went wrong, where Becky and I don't have that same story, which you guys already met Becky earlier. It was like a very different sort of situation that happened.
Well, and I remember Becky from years ago. Meeting in New York City, hanging out.
You know, like I do. Yeah.
And then you guys had a falling out, but it wasn't really publicized by TV cameras, right? No, we never. I don't remember.
We actually never talked about it. We never.
We fell out and it was like very apparent publicly. But I think just having my relationship, my friendship so public has been really rough.
Yeah. Are you still friends with any of those people that like that you had a falling out with publicly on camera? Oh, really? Anyone that has publicly said something about me, you are dead to me and I will never look back.
Right. The fact that Becky never went public about it, I feel like we can grow and we can progress and we can rekindle.
But anyone else, if you've said anything publicly about me and or are falling out, I will never speak to you again. Because I think it speaks to somebody's soul and their authenticity and who they are as a person.
100%. Right? You know, like people who truly love us and are actually really good people and aren't using us to get something wouldn't go to the media.
100%. Wouldn't sell things.
Wouldn't, you know, publicize things. Which is why we literally have the same friends that we've had since we were in middle school.
Because none of them ever, like their motives never changed. Exactly.
And it's super hard when you're on television or just in the spotlight at all to make new friends because I don't trust people. And you know how that is.
I'm like, but I want to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. So I will not trust someone and still let them in because I want to believe they're going to prove me wrong.
Right. Has anyone in your life asked you for money? All the time., yeah.
Really? Oh, yeah. And I've actually, no, I've actually helped a lot of people, but I never would even go public with it because it was my intention was literally just to help you out.
Right. But.
Oh, yeah. We get asked for money all the time.
Oh, yeah. The closest people to me have never asked me for money.
Oh, the closest people to me have asked me. Oh, yeah.
It's the people that I'm not close with that have asked for money that's weird isn't that interesting that's weird becky was offered like ten thousand dollars to sell me out wow so you all talked a little bit about that oh okay okay oh you did yeah we did i didn't get to sit on sit in on the episode okay so for anyone listening to this episode i am helping caitlin and tyler launch their podcast and i'm just here to support you guys in any way I can so if I ever like take over this podcast just stop me yeah but so I wasn't there for the recording with Becky but what did she say she said the same thing how people were reaching out to her and companies were reaching out to her and saying hey we'll pay you this we'll pay you that and she's like and that was never part of like what I would want to do she was like it was just more of hey we're not talking's what it is. Like she was like, it didn't bring any interest to me.
And she said it actually bugged her a lot that all these people were reaching out to her, wanting her to talk about things. Well, even like other friends that I fell out with, she said, reached out to her to try to like, what? See, that's weird.
Be like friends. Well, those people I feel aren't really true friends, obviously.
Right, right, right. with our friends i genuinely like not that they asked for money but they were just i'm not gonna watch you suffer 100 but that's different in my yeah right they're not like i need money right no i have it's like no i i refuse to watch my tribe suffer and if i can do something about it i will do something about it because like me and her and some people even my mom was like why would you do that and it's like mom it's just money is money it comes and it goes I could die tomorrow and it's gone it's worthless to me it's like when I do see a friend of mine that's a single mom that is working her ass off to try to do her best and she is struggling to make you know to find a place of her own I don't it helps me feel good to know that I'm helping my friend who is working her ass off and doing all the right things but just not being able to catch up.
100%. You know what I mean? And it also makes it kind of worth it.
When I'm sitting here in a home with all three of my kids and they have food and they have toys and they have all the things. They have more than enough.
Yes. Yeah.
Last year we did, for Barely Famous, we did a Christmas give back where it was like clear the list but people submitted their stories stories for why they needed help. And I made my kids help me read them.
Because I wanted my kids to understand what was – why we needed to help other people. And them reading some of these stories I feel like made such an impact on them.
And so if there's ever a time that you guys want to ever – That's beautiful. Come together to do something like that.
We do it every year for clear the list like back to school and also for Christmas. Yeah, for the teachers.
Yeah, Ty and I are very like, I do, I've done. Adopt a family.
Well, and I do it for like Thanksgiving dinners. People think that people, just everybody can have a Thanksgiving dinner.
That shit's expensive. Yeah.
And I've taken Nova with me where we go and we get the food and we take it to the person. Nova helps me bring the groceries in and these people like cry.
Yeah. And Nova gets to see it.
I've taken Christmas dinners. We've adopted kids adopted kids and you know because you should you should give back to people for sure you know need it and also like as far as a lot of our friends were just kind of living the same childhoods that we did so like when they're doing all the right things like we we've gotten them houses we've helped them get cars houses i mean trailers but still but yeah all right but our friend though like we helped her you know we helped her get a trailer but she paid us back like and that was the thing she wanted to do all the time yeah you know and she every time she got taxes she sent us the money you know and eventually she paid it back years but i'm fine with that i had someone where i helped them pay off college and she was like i'll pay you back she got her m her MTV check and bought a car.
She, a new car. She already had one.
She went on a cruise with her boyfriend. I was like, okay.
Is this a former friend? Yeah. I mean, we never had a falling out.
We just never spoke again, but I mean, she did things. She never paid me back.
Really? Wow. Hey, whatever.
I probably hasn't thought twice, but it's the, it's the, your intention was pure. So use.
And that's the thing. It's like, I try to hold on to that.
But it's just the point that you said you would pay me back. If you would have never said, oh, I'll pay you back, I wouldn't think twice about it.
Right, right. But it's just like.
But yeah, even recently we got our friend who just got her child back from that. And we got her a car because she was struggling and didn't have a car.
And it's just like. And also letting one of our friends borrow my car.
I'm not going to sit there with two cars in my driveway and then have someone in my tribe actually yeah and not have a car i'm like i'm not even driving this take it use it and they're like oh my god really i'm like yeah it's fine like i feel like like if you take care of your people your people take care of you and it's just like that's how awesome our friends are we've had them since middle school you know that's so crazy to me i feel like i've also moved a lot so i it's been sort of impossible so you have no childhood friends from when you were like young i mean i keep in touch with some like on social or like we might text from time to time but i would say i mean i moved a lot when i was a kid up until even recently i mean i just moved to delaware 10 years ago so any friendships there but then halfway through you know the 10 years javi and i got divorced so the friendship sort of by default not by anybody's fault but sort of sort of separated and then um so I don't think that I have had the even if I wanted to would have had the ability to like maintain a lot of the friendships just by default what is your like longest friendship like years like well how who's your I mean because if you're moving all the time how do you even get connect how do you like establish right i'll stay connected that was the hardest part because i didn't get a cell phone until i was 16 so i didn't any time that i moved before i turned 16 i couldn't maintain a relationship i didn't have a computer i didn't have a phone so it's more like reconnecting once i had a cell phone but i would say like once i got a cell phone was able to like reconnect with people i mean i've kept in touch. Like I said, I think the longest friend would be, I mean, I've been friends with Kristen for 10 years.
Okay. Yeah.
I've been friends with Becky. I mean, obviously with the exception of our falling out about 12 years.
Okay. And so I've had like long-term friends, but like childhood friends.
No, I mean, these are friendships from my adulthood. Wow.
Interesting. Do you know what I mean? i mean yeah i i have again like i don't want to discredit anyone listening to this yeah i'm we're friends but i mean like on a like a really intimate personal level i don't think that i have any really childhood friends yeah so do you feel like because i do you feel like people like get that misconception about you that like oh you you have have so many friends? Because I remember Becky said something about, which I didn't even know.
She's like, yeah, you know, Kale always gets this hate for having revolving door of friends and can't keep like friendships or whatever. I know, we were like, really? That's not being? I'm like, what are you talking about? Oh, yeah.
I mean I think on a regular – especially because, you know, Baby Mama's podcast is done. Yeah.
And so everyone just automatically assumed, oh, it's Kale's fault. Oh, I see.
Because Kale can't keepy i've lost mark i've lost you know there's there's friendships that i have really really people thought were a lot deeper than they were or or maybe because of the situation that we fell out or whatever the case maybe it's always my fault and so that's kind of what i was explaining to you earlier is that i still have this like very um guarded perception that i am so reactive i'm so angry i'm so bitter i can't keep a friend i'm always the problem like that is still you don't come i know so maybe we're just not in a loop that's what people think of me like they truly believe that and i'm just like but it's not even like even with me and becky it wasn't a one-sided situation that caused us to fall out it was very much a mutual decision it was not even a decision but more so like mutual um circumstances yeah that caused it and i think that's across the board for all of them but for some reason people just assume it's me so okay so with the friendships that you had for like 10 years or whatever obviously you had kids in those 10 years and so do your friends are they close with your children and then your children i mean do you have to explain to your kids oh the reason why becky's not around anymore or whatever like you know what i mean becky i had to explain okay becky i definitely had because she was she was at my house like every weekend because we never she lives in jersey and i live in delaware so it was sort of a drive but like we were doing christmases together like wow so there was like a huge gap and we were like everyone was like what's going's going on? But I don't necessarily have to explain. Well, what's fucked up is I had a friend fall out and then they reached out to Isaac.
They were texting him. And I was like, oh, you're weird as fuck.
No, no, no. Yeah.
See, like that's where I draw the line. Like now you've got me fucked up.
Yeah. But you're reaching out to my kids.
Like what? Yeah, that's weird. Yeah.
No. Definitely.
Off limits. Yeah, for sure.
Obviously. Mom of limits yeah for sure obviously and my first thought is obviously you are not an adult because you're reaching out to a child yeah like that's that is very weird that's so interesting because i feel like macy's had the same friends chelsea's had the same friends i think leah hasn't really necessarily had the same friends but nobody talks about that right and i'm not calling her out by any means i don.
No, you're right. I don't want this to be like shade.
No. You know what I mean? So I think that there are why do I but maybe because they're not as big of a part on the show.
That's what I'm saying. That's what Macy said.
Yeah, because you said that all my friends became this huge part of my TV story. Yeah, because you don't have the family and stuff like that too.
Friends is your family. Which I think me and Kay kind of relate to because we're like when you when you come from such a fucked up family you you create your own you you pick and choose your friends they become your tribe and it becomes almost like closer i'm closer to a lot of my friends than i but ever would be to my family like for your story you guys would always have each other to talk to if you didn't have somebody else where like i wasn't always in a relationship Wait, what's Blue Monkey? Okay, so I talk a lot and I – whatever.

So I go into these tangents and it leads off into other shit. So that's why you're going to make a great podcast.
I don't know. We'll see.
But don't. Yeah.
But I'll like, I'll be talking. Usually when we're driving or like when something's happening.
Or in bed. Yeah.
And you know, she's trying to bed, like laying or like having or like having sex? No, like, no, no, no. Just like watching TV.
You're, you're really, no. Like watching TV and he's going on these tangents.
Oh, oh, oh, oh. She's like, I'm just trying to watch fat people get surgery.
Like you're over here talking about. Do you watch 1,000 pounds? Oh, dude.
No. No, she watches 600 pound life and, and, and, and lifting and scrubbing.
I haven't watched my 600 pound life in like six months. She watches toxic shit dude.
I do not. I watch alone naked and afraid.
I watch intervention. I watch All I know is I come in there TLC fat people bro and I'm sorry now.
I love a thousand pound sisters. You can't tell me shit about Amy.
You can't tell me shit about Tammy. A thousand pound sisters is the one with the brow.
Heavy brow. Yes alright sorry no shade not the heavy brow I just saw a picture we should get them on your podcast okay come on Tammy whatever you are no you know what we're actually gonna Kate's gonna be the producer and it's gonna be Ty and Tammy oh I love it it um but back to blue monkey okay oh yeah back to blue monkey okay see what i'm saying um so blue monkey is like if i notice i'm talking a lot and i get annoyed on myself my own head and i'll look over and i can tell that she's just a head nodder okay she's head nodding right now he's saying yeah yeah oh wow and so i'll say like i'll be like yeah you know talking about you know oh my god so maybe we'll build a deck and you know in the blue monkey thing and then we'll do that and she's like yeah yeah yeah i'm like all right that's that's how i know i need to shut my mouth in the middle of a sentence just to see if because if you're really listening you'll catch it and be like blue monkey deck like what are you talking about do that to your like but you did that you didn't come up with that no he just doesn't i just found out this out like three days yeah she just found it out so i swear to god i said no you didn't i swear i was like i and she's like what do you say i said i say blue monkey because i know for a fact i started dying dude because she knows she's like oh i do check out a lot because you go on these rambling things.
So you guys are not together for a day.

Say you guys are going separate ways for whatever reason.

And he wants to tell you a story of what happened.

Is he telling you every little detail from start to finish until the point that you're like, wait, I don't understand what the point of the story is?

All right.

So Tyler is not so much that part.

Okay.

He can say what happened during the day and whatever he's frustrated about.

And I'm like, oh, my God.

Wow, that's crazy. You don't have a conversation conversation it's more or less when he's on like cloud nine and let's just say and he all of a sudden is like you know so you know it always starts off with that first of all and it's always like so you know uh we are all part of the star we have scientists have found out that we are part we have stardust in our genes and we all come from the stars because the stars explode the stars were up in space so actually we're a part of the stars and our ancestors are part of all the stars and do we actually have stardust in us yes or you made that up no i don't make it i'm gonna tell lies and for a while i'm listening like oh wow that's interesting and it's just going wait it's in our dna and going your body's made of stardust yes are you lying listen google it girl go ahead and google it it's all science but anyway that's a good example that's a good example yeah usually a lot of the stuff is are we made of stardust hold on let me google this i have the pop your pussy like this okay are we made of startup people have googled this before yes scientifically speaking humans are considered made of stardust because the atoms that make up our bodies like carbon oxygen and iron were primarily created inside stars through nuclear fusion before our solar system formed meaning that material that constitute us constitutes us originated from the stars that exploded long ago.
Yep. There you go.
Why do you know that? I know, right? Exactly. That's why Blue Monkey is important because there's things that I'm interested in where she just is like, dude.
This is when you were on ketamine. No.
Nope. No, it's not.
This is me and my normal brain, okay? It's exhausting up here. So, the next Inside Out movie is going movie is going to be tyler's brain seriously no too many too many things went on there but yeah so it's like a thing that i do yeah which it's funny because i guess i've been doing it for so long i never thought i'd have to tell you about it because listen this is why i do it i do it because i don't want to make her feel like an asshole for me be like are you listening to me? You know and she's like yeah

I mean I don't know

it's like I don't want

to put the pressure

on because I know

I talk a lot

it's called accountability

I'm a jibber jabber

whatever

and so

it's my way of just

being like

okay it's okay

you're going on

on a tangent

so you're not offended

by it

absolutely not

I'm exhausted myself

I love the self-awareness

I hate

but then I found out

that he used to do

it to his mother

when he was young and that's where it started that's where it. Did it hurt your feelings when you did it to your mom? No.
Really? I knew. Do you have ADHD? Yes.
Yes. Are you medicated? No.
Not like that. Not like.
No, but the animation in his face when he talks is everything. Yeah.
I just. Okay.
It's my own way of. Actually, it's helping you.
I don't want to make you feel like an asshole, but did you just hear what I said? You're like, ugh. You're like, make her feel bad? Yeah, because I know myself.
Right. It's like, shut the fuck up, Tyler.
Right. God damn it.
The good thing about podcasting is that you're able to shut it off when you feel like it because if you over-talk, you can just clip it down. Which, that's great.
I need that. I love that.
We joked about it where Kate's like, I'm about to get you a Tyler Red Button. I know, I'm going to get a Red Button.
Let him do Tyler Rant segments. Oh, that's great.
No, no, no. For many episodes.
I don't think people want to do that. Or no, we're going to do the did you knows.
So did you know? And Kate's like, oh my gosh. We're going to do it because I swear that's how it always starts out.
No, because you know how you do your book stuff? Yeah. And I was talking about, oh, I have, I read books too, and I was like, no.
You do? Join book club.

You would not like my books. Why?

What are your books? The last book. Very scientifical.

Right now I'm reading

Leaving

Faith, and anyway, it's all

philosophy stuff. You should join book

club. Yeah, it's philosophy.
Yeah, but you're reading

like some, some. It's reading matter.

Romance. In the club, we're all fam.

I'm just saying. The

Immortality Key, I don't think anyone

would be interested in the Immortality Key book.

Thank you. some some rating matter romance in the club we're all fam i'm just saying the immortality key i don't think anyone would be interested in the immortality key book okay well obviously people are yeah i would like i would really i'll ask i'll ask in the book club and i'll say we have a special guest like right now i'm reading deconstructing leaving church finding faith which is a whole thing about yeah but so it's always like i don't follow uh what do you call it like stories oh like like fiction yeah exactly they're all like i don't even know what you call self-help um no not even self-help it's more like uh awareness like history yeah um society brain how does the brain work think about things very science see yeah and i'm not into science you're into fat people on tlc i tell i think what it is is because he always complains that i watch boring tv and there's no like plot and twist to it i said to me i'm like i am a mom for so many hours a day and when i get the four hours to just do nothing i don't want to think that hard right you want to watch brainless cell list yes like you don't right garbage she can turn it off and i cannot turn it off i'm always so oh i can shut it off yeah i wish i could i'm envious so yeah i i like to watch just stuff i don't have to really think so when you're you got seven kids so is that what you do you read your books is that how you kind of escape i actually just said that to my book club yesterday i texted in the group because one of the girls is also a mom and she reads as many books as i do and she also she was texting about a show and i said nicole i do not understand how you're a mom you read and you watch tv i get to pick between tv or reading books it's one or the other it's not both right so i was asking uh was i asking you guys yeah i was asking you guys how many of the girls are on team like i don I don't know anything about anything.
Yeah. Because I just read.
I don't even watch TV at all. Listen, the only TV we watch is in our bedroom, which I don't even watch.
I'm reading about stars, and she's watching TLC and Tammy. And so I'm like, you know, our TVs are bluey in Miss Rachel, and that's just what it is.
Like, So I don't really watch TV. I just read.

Read.

Yeah, same.

We have two of them at home because Nova is Tyler to a T.

The animations,

the mind,

the thinking.

Nova, I love that though.

Yes, I do too.

I love it about her.

Oh, I hope that never changes.

Yeah, same thing.

She got out.

I told Tyler this.

I said that one day that

he usually does the morning stuff

with the kids

and gets them up

and gets them ready to school

and I always do the nighttime routine.

So that's how we split it.

Yeah.

Thank you. she got out i told tyler this i said so the one day that he usually does the morning stuff with the kids and gets them up and gets them ready to school and i always do the night times routine so that's how we split it yeah and so but the one morning he didn't sleep well so i got up with the kids nova six o'clock in the morning her eyes are still closed hey mom did you know that we all have stardust in our stuff and no what he exactly yes no tyler to a t and i was like oh my god I just like I just like stir your coffee like dude my kid yes into a child and I told him he goes wow he said but that made me feel so good because she's just intrigued about science like she loves science and she really absorbed everything he said and she was so like in passionate about it and in awe of it of like you know she looks up at the stars now's like, can you believe like we are, our ancestors are a part of that.
Yeah, you know. I love her.
I love her. So it's funny because some days it's just like both, I'm like sitting over there and both of them are.
Maybe he should do the nighttime routine so that they can talk. You know what I mean? Right? Oh, yeah.
I mean, I don't know. No, trust me.
Okay, you want to switch?

You want to switch?

No.

Are you sure?

No. I'm not a morning person.

Oh, dude.

No.

I feel like for you guys, too, like just being together, you don't know any different, right?

Yeah.

Or is it different because you've seen your parents do different things?

No, you know where I think that comes from?

Have you ever read the book Daughters of Alcoholics?

No.

Read it.

Kale?

Yeah. Life-changing.
Yeah. And it resonated with me on so many deep levels.
So many of those pages. I highlighted everything in that book that really stood out to me and like I could relate to.
And I think that children, you know, children that are raised in alcoholic homes, we just subconsciously take on, and you were the oldest, right? The only. The only only okay so perfect you take on all of the roles of like monitoring how your parent is feeling because we don't know how they're going to react we don't know what kind of state they're going to be in when we are there they're very unpredictable so we have to take all of this stuff in and kind of control our environment and make sure everything goes smoothly and nobody freaks out and i i definitely took that into my relationship with tyler there was lots of times where he would like joke around and i would take like offense to it like oh you internalize it a lot and i'm like whoa whoa the same thing always asking are you you know he'd be in a bad mood i'm like oh my god are you okay and you're not okay because it's something i did and it's like 100 yeah and she would i was like do not emotional emotionally monitor me that's what we're doing i'm your safes.
I'm not, oh my God, are you okay? And you're not okay because it's something I did. And it's like.
100%. Yeah.
And I was like, do not emotionally monitor me. That's what we're doing.
I'm your safe. I'm not your mom.
I'm not your abuser. I'm not here to hurt you.
I'm here to love you and support you. So please don't emotionally monitor me.
That's fine. And I felt like at the time, but I didn't know any of that at first.
So I was like, why are you so like paranoid almost? And I was was like what is going on so yeah and reading like you need to like and by the way that book it's a

very easy read it's not very like probably read it on a plane ride yeah it's not very like doctor

yeah yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna send it to you okay because we're going to spain next week and we're

there for two weeks so that's like oh that's sweet yeah lincoln got picked to play soccer

to go yeah so we're gonna go all right speaking of like kids yeah okay so how many of your

Thank you. weeks so that's like oh that's sweet yeah lincoln got picked to play soccer to go awesome yeah so we're gonna go all right speaking of like kids sports okay so how many of your seven kids are in sports yeah so three are in sports one is in like other things so isaac does he's the president of asl club okay he is he just auditioned for a play at school and then he also is in the debate team so he has like like several after school things.
I always want to do the debate team. Well, so it was a little tricky because he showed interest and then he was sort of confused by it because you have to like learn the rules and like the techniques and the tactics to debate properly.
Interesting. And so he was kind of having a rough time, but I was like, listen, you can ask for your professors or your teachers for help or you can get a job because i'm not we're doing one or the other you're either going to fill your schedule with like academics and things that you can put on a resume or you're going to go get a job so it's one or the other and i think at that point he was like okay i'm going to reach out to my teachers and get help and now he likes it okay good um what are the rules and debate i thought there's like certain um like verbiage that you use and there's certain tactics to be able to debate someone like properly.
Okay. Um, I'm not fully versed on it, so I don't even want to like give information, but he was like telling me about why it was like, he didn't understand it.
And I said, that's why you got to ask for help. But like, if you're not going to fill your schedule with academics and clubs and things like that, then we need to figure out a job because you can't go out here at 18 years old and have no skills.
Well, right. And he's not,

and he's in ninth grade.

Yeah.

So like,

I just want him to be able to,

I want to set him up for the future. And if you're not going to have sports on any sort of like application or

resume or something,

like you have to have skills from something.

And I feel like debate is one of the best ones to have.

Oh God.

I don't know that for sure,

but I'm like making it up as I go.

Oh yeah.

You would have succeeded in that.

Oh,

for sure.

And like Isaac reminds me a lot of Tyler.

I reached out to you before. Remember when all that, I was like, I want to let you know it as a – Like, you know, just – Yeah.
Like – A hundred percent. People have these weird – Where they'll categorize them.
They'll try to do all these things. A hundred percent.
But it's because I honestly feel like – And this is just my belief. But I feel like souls like Isaac are wiser.
They may not be in age. But in experience, in wisdom, they just have a way.
I think people like, they kind of... They don't like it.
They don't... If they can't figure it out, they'll vilify it or they'll categorize it or label them.
Because it challenges everything that they stand for and it challenges their own insecurities, I feel. Isaac will challenge any...
If you tell him we're made of stardust, he's going to figure out why we're made of stardust. Where does that come from? Yeah.
Where did you get to that conclusion? Like he wants to know about God, about religion, about all of the things. Yep.
Um, he was asking me about insurance the other day and he was like, wait, so it's basically a scam. And I was like, no, it is.
It is a scam. He's like, I'm moving to Europe.
I'm like, okay, cool. I'm moving to Europe.
I was like, all right, cool. Um, as long as you can be an interpreter over there, there, it's fine.
Lincoln's in basketball and soccer. Okay.
And then Lux and Creed are in soccer, basketball, wrestling, football. Oh my gosh.
Not all at the same time. They're all during different seasons.
Okay. So, so Monday through Friday, you're all at practices, right? Monday through Friday, Isaac has, all of his clubs are three days a week.
So like, three out of the week. Okay.
And then Lincoln has – right now he has game and practice once a week. Like a game on one day, a practice on another.
So he's not in every day yet. Okay.
Lux and Creed are at a practice almost every single day. Oh, my God.
So it's like Monday through Friday. So is Elijah going over here and you're going over here? No.
Right. How do you juggle it all? I think that I've confused people about the nanny thing.
So like there's this whole controversy online about if I have nanny – if I have a nanny and how many nannies I have. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
What controversy is surrounding a nanny? Well, there was this huge like uproar about influencers and reality people that have nannies. And I had – like I am fully transparent when it comes to stuff like that.
So I said I had a nanny i did have a nanny for a long time but by nanny what i meant was i do not have a live-in nanny that helps us 24 7 that's what people seem to they took it and run and they were like oh kale has live-in nanny or nannies no i have child care provider that comes to my home to watch my babies the three babies yeah monday through friday from eight to four wait so because i i never even knew nannies live with people. Oh, yes.
I always thought nannies, like you said, come clock in, clock out during the hours that parents can't. But some people have live in nannies, and I did try to go to- Those are rich.
Actually, no. What? So actually, that's like the more cost-effective.
We'll talk about it later. Okay, nanny living in the house.
Yes. An au pair is actually more affordable than a nanny.
How did you find a nanny, Kale? That you trusted. Yes, because we struggle with that issue.
Well, so that's the thing. So she comes from 8 to 4.
She's literally a saint on this earth. Like truly everything.
So she's 8 to 4 but at 4 o'clock she clocks out. She's done.
we do not have nights we do not have weekends and then um i'm taking i'm ripping and running for the sports luckily he's at in high school and so he stays after school i don't have to like go pick him up and then bring him back so it's sort of like okay pick him up drop lincoln off lincoln's at the age where i can start to drop him off right right i'll never miss a game if i don't have to um but then lux and creed since they're at the same – like sort of the same age, a lot of their things are on the same day and they're all signed up for the same thing. Sweet.
So I'm at the same location for both of them. For both the kids.
Okay, got it. Yeah.
And so luckily right now everything is sort of on different – like Lincoln sports right now are on different days than Lux and Creed or they're at a different time. Got it.
So I can go take the younger ones and go. I want to see how fucking crazy your calendar looks.
Oh, I'll send you a picture. When this episode drops, I'll have a picture.
Yeah, because we just have three in our calendar. I'll say, dude.
No, it's chaos, but I don't know what I would do if we were just home and not doing anything. We landed from Disney and I flew here.
Right. I didn't even have 24 hours at home before I was already on another plane and ready to go.
You keep saying all these random things that people think I keep saying all these random things that people think I'm, I got a nanny. People think I got a nanny.
I'm like, what the fuck is going on? The hate stands out and is so loud and I hate it. Like it drives me crazy because I, it does.
Cause I, you've said multiple things. I'm like, what are you talking about? If I clear it up enough, it'll go away.
But it seems like I clear it up and it doesn't go away. So I don't even know why I do it, but no, I, I kind of that because even when she's gotten we talked the other day about how she got all this hate for, you know, her mental health and, you know, all this stuff that she went through.
And it's like, dude, if you knew Kate at all, you would know if you don't like her, something's wrong with you. I have to tell you that because I'm telling you, like, I don't know.
She wouldn't hurt a fucking fly. So I'm like, I try to save the fly and i would i would i would heal its wing and let him you know teach him how to fly again yes and she's like fam like i don't even like to refer to her as a nanny because but i also don't know how to like because she's not really like a mom to me but she is family to me yeah how long you had her i've she's only actually been working for me for about a year.
But I've known her for like – Oh. I've probably known her for like seven years.
Oh, wow. Like I've known her for a really – like she was family to me before she worked for me.
Okay, right. So how does someone go about how did you find this person? I think that's what something me and Ty struggle with is I don't trust anybody with my kids.
I'll tell you about the agency that I went through first before I got my – I don't even – I don't like to call her a nanny because she's like family, but, um. We got to figure out a comfortable term for her that you like, like, I don't even know.
My helper, my babysitter, my, you know. Well, the kids call her Tata because that's like.
So call her Tata. Sort of like a grandmother.
Yeah. She's Tata.
Yeah, she's Tata. Okay, and how did you meet Tata? I was friends with her stepson for a really long time.
Oh, okay. And then, um, stepson like doing handiwork around the house lawn work okay yeah yeah um he was like my handy guy but then he became literally like a dad to me and then became like a grandfather to my children so and then when his wife came over from puerto rico that was how so it ended up being more like a friend of the family yeah you know yeah following that of those but i absolutely love her because she only speaks spanish too so my kids are learning spanish oh awesome um she has a daughter that's the same age as rio so like they're so then um they like hang out yeah yeah because you know that's something ty and i struggle with it's like i don't trust anybody with my kids no and i would trust her with i would trust her more than i would trust half the people that i am with all and like people don't really get it they'll be oh come out and say dude i can't we'll find a babysitter i'm like i don't have one our parents are shit and like you said they need weeks of notice i can't just say hey can you watch all three of my kids tonight they're like i have a lot of kids and like i don't the thing is that i don't leave lux and creed with anyone anymore like i used to have a nanny for them but i don't leave them with anyone so if lux and creed are not with chris they're not i'm not going yeah right count me out like i don't leave Lux and Creed with anyone anymore.
Like I used to have a nanny for them, but I don't leave them with anyone. So if Lux and Creed are not with Chris, I'm not going.

Yeah.

Right.

Count me out.

Not that I don't – I definitely trust Tata with them, but I don't put them on her either.

No, right.

So you had a nanny before Tata.

So you – and how long did you have that nanny for?

Three years.

Okay.

So from 2020 to 2020.

And did you like that experience?

How did you get that one?

Also fell into my lap

so that was i went to college with her son got it needed a cleaning person she had a cleaning business so she used to clean my house and then she was laid off from her job i hired her as a nanny like a full-time nanny she didn't live with me or anything yeah but like full-time i mean like child care hours right that one was like seven to three so she still got to clock clock out. Yeah, 100%.
And then that was a really traumatic falling out that I haven't really talked about yet.

So it was like a long story.

And I don't think that either one of us ever really got full closure on that.

Oh, that's crappy.

And so it was a very public situation.

Oh, it was.

Oh, okay.

I didn't know that.

So the experience for two out of the three years, I think, was really good.

It's funny because you're like, cleaning.

We need things.

Where's our cleaning lady?

I don't care.

I want a cleaning lady.

I'm overly stressed all the time.

We had a cleaning lady for a little bit, and we felt so shameful for some reason.

I would leave.

We were like, oh, whoa, we got to get out of here.

We're leaving.

I would leave until the kids.

I do prefer to leave when my house is being cleaned. Yeah, it's weird.
i don't want to just sit there and watch you clean my house i feel it feels like like weird yeah i feel shameful i'm like i'm sorry oh let me move that for you and they're like no it's my job oh sorry i gotta get out of here i can't yeah no i i feel like i've gotten really lucky with child care um and clean lady yeah that's nice yeah damn yeah what's what i need something somebody someone to fall into my life please reach out no don't oh yeah no actually don't reach out we don't trust you yeah actually don't the agency they're like certified they're like cpr certified right that's a good credentials they have like there's like things that they have to go through so i definitely i did something i did something on like care.com like care.com. Yeah.
Don't do that. I did that too.
That was a big thing. See, and I paid for some other things.
And then eventually I just had this weird feeling about it. Do your friends sign NDAs? No.
No. No.
Does anyone that comes into your life sign an NDA? No. I don't sign an NDA now.
No. No.
Like if you don't sign an NDA, we can't be friends. Except for Becky.
She's proved her loyalty. I don't need an NDA from her.
Listen, if I need an NDA, I don't want you around me. True.
But I just feel like you don't know until shit hits the fan. That's why no new friends.
No. No new friends here.
If this shit hits the fan, we're going to do this all publicly, bitch. We'll go all out.
We'll just do it all. We'll put it all out there.
I mean. Really? Really, really.
You feel the need for NDAs. Yeah.
Okay. Because you've been fucked over by friends or whatever you want to call it.
Is that what it means? Well, so many people actually. Yeah.
And I'm not saying that I'm innocent, right? Like I've definitely had a hand in like whatever the fallout was. But to go publicly is like next level because truly how I, my personal life is my business unfortunately.
Right, right. It's such like a weird.
And so if you fuck with my business, my life, my personal life is my business, unfortunately. Right, right.

It's such like a weird, and so if you fuck with my business, my life, my personal life,

you're actually affecting the way I'm able to provide for my children.

So how do you separate that?

You can't.

Because we've adopted this kind of lifestyle, right?

And so that's like part of the reason why V and I went our separate ways,

because she didn't want to talk about co-parenting.

And I'm like, but that is my livelihood. Like, that's's how I built everything that I've built is through my personal life my personal life is I guess again now are you and Joe like you guys talk we try not to oh you try not to okay and is that just because you guys just we just don't we don't have we don't see eye to eye on okay we have the same end goal okay but getting there is never the same okay like we just do we clash so hard and it's no shade to him i think that he just has a very different um way right like you guys delivery different delivery yeah i just it's upsetting because it's always kale's always the problem you know what i mean like i can see yeah when that's not factual and of course i've had my hand i've done but i'm just saying nobody's but i'm just saying to get 100 of the blame all the time right it's exhausting it is well and the only way to clear anything up is just to be transparent and this is what really happened but it sucks because i can kind of feel like i've seen you know obviously people talk shit all the time and i've seen some of those things and it's like i feel like what i'm hearing from you is that even when you do explain and you're being truthful and you're telling the truth people still say oh she's lying they don't believe you even though you're like well and then eventually you have to get to a point where like I do and I'm like well believe whatever the fuck you want to believe that's where I'm at now I said what I said I know my worth I know who I am as a person I sleep great at night and because I know you know like who cares and not even like the nitty gritty details.
I think there's a way to talk about things without actually explaining what the actual issue was. Yeah, there is.
You know, it's as sad as it is. A lot of people do struggle with that.
And I think, you know, it's sad, but I completely see where you're coming from. Yeah.
Well, all you can do is just here's what happened, move forward, whatever. It is what it is.
Well, I definitely had more questions that I want to ask you, but I'll save that for a different time. We'll do part two.
I will save that for a different time. Part two, stay tuned.
Hey. Blue monkey.
No, but I mean, obviously, you know, me and Kate adore you and we just thank you so much for, you know, letting us, you know, do this and just helping us. Of course.
Anything y'all need, I'm here. Me, Kristen, Alessandra, Becky, all of us becky you guys are all great chandler's great yeah so anything you need i'm here i think it's good we're all a little team and we're all just gonna we're all yeah i mean it's that's fun and that means level each other and that just means i get to see you more oh yeah no i'm excited for that i know the kids are gonna be out here like fucking polluting against us i love it it.
Well, thanks, Cale.

Yeah, of course.

Thanks for coming out.

Kate and Ty break it down.

Yeah.

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