Meeting Becky: Being Kail's friend, her coming out story & the grueling IVF journey

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Speaker 3 Welcome back to Kate and Ty Break It Down.

Speaker 2 What's up, Becky? What's up, guys? What's happening? How are we? We're great. Yeah.
We don't really know who you are, but that's why we're doing this.

Speaker 2 What's a better way?

Speaker 3 I was going to say, no, like, I've met Becky, you know, I think I've said Ben more than once.

Speaker 4 Yeah, we met at a bunch of reunions.

Speaker 3 And it was years ago.

Speaker 2 Like, years ago.

Speaker 4 You guys, which is wild.

Speaker 2 Already met multiple times. Yeah.

Speaker 4 We just haven't met. We haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet.

Speaker 2 Neither was I. I don't know, but you know, I don't know.
I must have been home with the kids. Yeah, obviously weren't there.

Speaker 3 How many of you were there?

Speaker 2 We went out to dinner.

Speaker 4 It had to have been eight years ago.

Speaker 2 It was a very long time ago.

Speaker 4 Yeah, seven years ago, eight years ago.

Speaker 2 Oh, so we only had one kid.

Speaker 3 If a kid at that point.

Speaker 2 It's been a while.

Speaker 3 It really is.

Speaker 4 I know one time you were pregnant.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So it had to be Nova.

Speaker 2 Wow. Okay.
So it's been a minute.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I've been around for a while. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I've just been a little bit different. And then you just dissipate before.
I know. I'm like, what the hell happened, Becky? How do we

Speaker 2 and then you just

Speaker 4 vibe really well together? Like, oh, for sure. Like, as humans.
So, as long as you're a nice person and cool, I'm good.

Speaker 2 I think I am. Okay.

Speaker 2 We'll see what Daniel does.

Speaker 2 Okay, so first off, since I don't know anything about you, how did you?

Speaker 4 Where'd I come from?

Speaker 2 Where'd you come from?

Speaker 4 How do you know Kaylee?

Speaker 3 Who is Becky? Where are you from?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know. Give us the down low.

Speaker 4 So I met Kale in 2012.

Speaker 4 She was friends with my ex at the time. And so I got brought into her life through mutual, like mutual people.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 we always say that Kale got me in the divorce when her and Javi got divorced. My ex stayed friends with Javi, and then I stayed friends with Kale.
So I've been around for a while.

Speaker 4 I've done a bunch of teen mom with her. I did marriage boot camp with them.
Oh, shit.

Speaker 2 You did marriage boot camp? Yeah.

Speaker 4 She did. Yeah.
I did Kale's dating show. The like.

Speaker 2 what was kale had a dating show

Speaker 2 i don't know

Speaker 4 something clone where like it was all different people that looked like queer quavo

Speaker 4 it was crazy wow um never knew now i'm gonna have to go and find this yeah a bunch of reunions i've done but it was funny because the marriage boot camp the marriage boot camp they made it seem like i was the reason that Kale and Javi got divorced because there was a whole rumor about me and Kale dating.

Speaker 4 So that's the whole rumor on the internet Kale and I dated.

Speaker 4 I was the reason that

Speaker 2 Ty's like

Speaker 2 what is going on.

Speaker 4 I'm like, dude, you said marriage bootcamp.

Speaker 2 I'm like, why were you even in a marriage bootcamp?

Speaker 4 So I was in marriage boot. They were doing like they were doing, sorry, they were doing a mock wedding and they asked if anyone in the audience objected.

Speaker 4 And I just stood up and you should, like, and Javi's face was,

Speaker 2 no.

Speaker 4 Like, what is she? Because he didn't know I was there.

Speaker 2 Oh, you didn't? No.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Like, they had pictures blasted all over their hotel room of me and Kale kissing.

Speaker 2 Which actually makes it seem like we did have something.

Speaker 4 But we did not, I can assure you.

Speaker 2 So how did they get a picture of you kissing?

Speaker 4 So Kale was pregnant. I brought Kale to a pride with me, and she was pregnant, and we took a picture kissing, and she was like, can we just kind of play into this so people don't know I'm pregnant?

Speaker 4 And I was like, yeah, girl.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 What do I have to lose?

Speaker 4 You know, so I got that.

Speaker 3 So, really, so you and Kale never had a relationship?

Speaker 4 No. Me and Kale have always, I'm, I'm naturally a

Speaker 4 like kind of flirtatious person, just in my nature of speaking. Um, I, I enjoy conversation, like, conversating with people.
And me and Kale have always had a very

Speaker 4 interesting dynamic. It's always been very playful, always been completely just like a friendship.
But as Kale navigated her own sexuality, it's always just been a like topic of conversation.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 It has been. I had no idea there was any rumors.

Speaker 3 You didn't?

Speaker 4 Are you living under a rock? Google my name, and all that comes up is Kale's ex-girlfriend, Becky, or did Kale and Becky date? Oh, it's a very good thing.

Speaker 2 We never.

Speaker 4 No. And we spoke about it, I went on her live show with her in Philly, and I spoke about that, it there that I give off this like guilty no when I say it.

Speaker 2 And I don't know why because

Speaker 4 I started dating my now wife that exact time when all those rumors started. And I've been with her since.
So we've been together for eight and a half years. So when would we have dated?

Speaker 3 You know, you know, oh, interesting, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah. So I'm a relationship, a C-year-old dater, and I've almost never been single.
So you would have definitely known if Caitlin and I, and we joke that she's not really my type.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 how long have you and your wife been married, though?

Speaker 4 We just got married this July.

Speaker 2 Oh, congrats. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It looked beautiful wherever you had it at.

Speaker 4 It was at my house. Wow, really? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yes, time tires.

Speaker 2 That's what I mean.

Speaker 2 I'm not taking that.

Speaker 3 I want to sit down.

Speaker 4 I want to know everything right from here.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so

Speaker 4 I am like a hopeless romantic. I am so, I love my wife.

Speaker 4 It's actually very similar to you two, like the lore that the two of you give and how you present yourself and how in love with, you are with her. I've seen that.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 4 And so that I'm very coded in that. I am obsessed with Leah is the most genuine person you will ever meet in your entire life.
Like beautiful human.

Speaker 4 The world is not good enough to have someone like her in this world. You know what I mean? And so I just got lucky that we, our paths crossed.
She's five years younger than I am.

Speaker 4 I always say that she was hanging out with the guys that never left my town.

Speaker 4 And so I came back from, I moved back home from Philly and our paths crossed. And it's kind of been, the rest has been history since then.

Speaker 4 We had a little bit of a rocky the first couple years, but we were dating in our early 20s, as you guys know.

Speaker 4 She was 21 when we met. And yeah, we just got married in July, had a beautiful, beautiful wedding.
It was funny because we were engaged for four years and we had no rush to get married.

Speaker 4 And we went to our first fertility appointment and the doctor was like, Why aren't you guys married?

Speaker 2 And we're like, I don't know.

Speaker 4 And then they were like, this is going to cost you $50,000. And we were like, yeah, let's get married and

Speaker 4 get presents to help pay for IVF.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 4 it is a false rumor that at-home weddings are cheaper than anything.

Speaker 4 Oh, I bet. It's just as expensive.

Speaker 2 And when you think about it,

Speaker 2 it's like a big giant party for everybody else, really.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so we did. So

Speaker 4 I always thought we would elope. I would redo our wedding day every single day of the year if I could.
We did a private ceremony.

Speaker 4 We only had about 30 of our closest family and friends there for the ceremony part and then had a party after.

Speaker 4 We had a really hard time.

Speaker 4 We knew that. a wedding we wanted to be about ourselves, right? I was so present with Leah that entire day.

Speaker 4 It almost felt like no one else was there because of like how present we were with each other. That's beautiful.

Speaker 4 But we really were, we were struggling with, we both have pretty large families, but we wanted to keep our ceremonies small. And it was really hard for us because we had been together.

Speaker 4 When you're together for so long, there's so many people that give into your relationship, right? And

Speaker 4 no offense to my family, but my friends were the reason that I got through that relationship and survived different points of life that I wouldn't have been able to do without them.

Speaker 4 And they deserve to be there. They deserve to see our love.
They deserve to. And so that's why we decided not to do really, really small.

Speaker 4 And we decided to open it up to our closest friends that, you know, meant something to us throughout those almost nine years together.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think we can agree because we have like a, I mean, our families are crazy. So like your friends become your chosen family.
Like it's your tribe. I chose my tribe.

Speaker 2 I was born into kind of a shitty one. So I'm going to redesign it, a little bit.
That's how it was for us.

Speaker 2 But it's funny if you mentioned how people questioned you about, well, you guys have been engaged. Why aren't you getting married? And so we were engaged for what, nine years? Long, long time.
Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I also proposed when we were, we still had braces.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was, yeah, I'm like 17.

Speaker 2 Driving a van that started with a screwdriver. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So we were

Speaker 2 a PC van. Yeah.
But yeah, so it's like, but people always ask us all the time, like, why are you not getting married?

Speaker 2 And it's like, we just listen We got engaged I'm like hey, I promise I love you so much don't want to be anybody else. Yeah, but like what's the what's the rush?

Speaker 2 Yeah, what's the big deal and honestly all the stuff that we went through in the nine years I'm glad it happened while we were engaged and like it I always say that yeah, like it's like but people have a weird like they're like why you just get married It's like dude calm down.

Speaker 2 Yeah

Speaker 4 and how how lucky are we that we've been together with our partner for so long that we've

Speaker 4 the issue is is that people that are together for so many years is we're not the same people, right?

Speaker 2 We grow,

Speaker 4 but we just happen to be lucky, the lucky ones that fall in love with that new version of the person and constantly are falling in love with that new version of the person.

Speaker 4 And that's what that's what ends relationships: is we're not willing to grow and fall in love with that new version of

Speaker 4 the person that they're becoming. And I just, I feel lucky to be in that situation that, you know, my relationship is the most stable thing in my life.

Speaker 3 Same, yeah same you know you just don't have to worry about it yeah and also i think the beautiful thing about it is when you are you know you're committed to somebody for so long and you're engaged for a while uh ty is my best friend you know what i mean i look at my friends my friend group and i'm like he's my best friend he knows everything about me we've been through so much together

Speaker 3 and i feel being best friends is the perfect foundation to a relationship absolutely you know because

Speaker 4 you should talk to kale about this when you have her on your podcast though. Because she completely disagrees that people can be best friends with their partner.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 4 Well, I'm here to show you. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And so it was funny just how she spoke to it. And I'm looking at her and I'm just like, girl, you do not know lesbian relationships.

Speaker 2 No, because honestly, it's like, and it's funny because people are always big, oh, well, do you want to come out and hang out with us? And I'm like, dude, are we lame?

Speaker 2 Cause we'd better just hang out with each other. Yes.
Just like chill. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm not ashamed of the fact that we are best friends, but I also feel like, how do you even, how do you not be best friends? Like, how do you not be best friends with your spouse?

Speaker 2 I don't, I would not, wouldn't want it any other way.

Speaker 4 Like, I want.

Speaker 4 I feel bad for people that,

Speaker 4 you know, because I know people in relationships that don't really like their partner or don't really have a connection with them or there's similar interests

Speaker 4 or any commonality between them. And I just, I feel like a sense of just sorrow, right? Like for them, because, man, like life is just so great spending it with someone that you love and i think

Speaker 2 100

Speaker 2 fact that you don't settle right like if if i and i see me and her talk about it all the time that we see so so many of our friends family members and it's like the more and more i'm seeing that they're just so unhappy yeah and like but they it's just weird how it's like why are you doing this to yourself i don't understand why you're settling especially the person you're going to be with forever it should be like you should want to spend all the time and travel with them and have fun, even when you're doing nothing.

Speaker 3 It's still fun, you know?

Speaker 2 Like, then people will always say stuff like, Oh, well, you're maybe you're just too codependent and you're too enmeshed. And I'm like, Bro, if this is codependent, I'm rocking and I'm codependent.

Speaker 2 I love it

Speaker 2 and I ain't mad about it. Like, I mean, like, whatever, but I think it's funny because people will always say stuff like, Oh, well, do things separately.

Speaker 4 And it's like, We do, yeah, we just prefer to do stuff together. So, that's right,

Speaker 2 we actually like each other, so you know, sorry, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 So, so

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Speaker 2 We're all out of the ordinary.

Speaker 3 Obviously, you're a lesbian. You have a wife, as you said.
I was kind of interested in what, whatever you feel comfortable sharing, but what was like your coming out journey?

Speaker 3 Like how old were you when you realized and kind of your journey of you know coming out and letting me so um it's so funny because everyone knew I was gay before I did.

Speaker 3 She's like Ashley, we have a friend just like it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 You know, I was an athlete. I was your pretty typical,

Speaker 4 you should have known you were a lesbian.

Speaker 4 I didn't come out until I was 19 in my sophomore year of college.

Speaker 4 And it was for no other reason than I didn't know.

Speaker 4 I'm from a very small,

Speaker 4 like 99% white. town

Speaker 4 no queer people, no representation, never saw queer people on the television, never saw queer people represented in really any part of life.

Speaker 4 So I just didn't know, right? And in high school, you know, I had boyfriends, I did everything that you were supposed to. I was really focused on sports, so it was never really that big of a,

Speaker 4 you know, this concept of, is this what love is supposed to feel like?

Speaker 4 And then I went to college and I went to a college that was full of lesbians and they all started to like take bets of who was going to get me to come out first.

Speaker 2 It was a wild. And what would you do? Would you just laugh and they're all talking about it?

Speaker 4 Yeah, and I would just, I would just soak up the attention that I got. I'm the youngest of five, so I've always just loved attention at any capacity.

Speaker 2 Right, right.

Speaker 4 And so I just like, I played into it. I never ended up dating anyone.
And it wasn't until my first girlfriend that I met who didn't show me any attention. And I was like,

Speaker 4 what is going on? Like, why isn't this girl giving me attention?

Speaker 2 What's wrong with you?

Speaker 4 And my, my, I've always gone for

Speaker 4 very beautiful women, very straight-coated, who you would never really identify just visually as gay.

Speaker 3 You love a beautiful woman.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And so we started dating, and the moment we started dating, everything just clicked. It was like, oh, this is what you're supposed to feel like.
This is what butterflies feel like.

Speaker 4 This is what, you know, sexual relationships, like whatever it is feels like.

Speaker 2 Back when you had the like boyfriends in high school, you didn't ever feel it just felt like that's what you were supposed to do, right?

Speaker 4 Like, I went through all the phases of boyfriends and doing whatever you needed to with men. And, you know, it wasn't,

Speaker 4 I just, it never felt like anything other than that's what people were doing. So I just didn't.

Speaker 2 Did you feel like it was an expectation or like a pressure?

Speaker 4 I didn't feel pressured to do it. I just felt like,

Speaker 4 why wouldn't I be doing it kind of thing?

Speaker 2 Or if I don't do it, something's wrong with me or like, I don't know.

Speaker 4 No, I never even like questioned myself of it not it because it didn't matter until I, like, when I met my girlfriend, and then that's, it all just clicked. It was just like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 Because that was this was never, this was never what it was supposed to be. This is how it's supposed to be.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 You never dated the guys and was like, all right, this is like, or it doesn't feel right.

Speaker 4 Just because I like, I love humans in general. And yeah.
And so I, I deep, I'm deeply in love with my friends.

Speaker 2 I'm deeply in love.

Speaker 4 And a lot of my friends are men. So I'm not,

Speaker 4 I can fall in love with men easily. It's just, you know, I just never knew that there was a difference from a physical attraction standpoint until I was physically attracted to the menu.

Speaker 2 But the differentiation between the two, you didn't really, okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 Because that's kind of like, it's interesting because that's the first time I've heard someone that had a story like that.

Speaker 2 Because my best friend, Ashley, she, she, I knew she was gay my whole life was gay. Before she ever came out, our whole friend knew it.
She never had boyfriends and she

Speaker 2 and she had the thing where like, she slowly started to be like, Hey, can I borrow your jeans? And I'm like, Yeah, finally, in my head, I'm like, Yeah, borrow my jeans.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and like, so her whole thing was like, She always knew. She's like, I knew when I was four years old.

Speaker 3 And it was kind of the same thing. You know, where we grew up, it was majority white.
You know, we had like two different kids that were different races.

Speaker 3 You know, we didn't have, you know, lesbians or, you know, any queer people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there it was all of that, just a small little town but but she we all knew yeah we all knew she's obviously she knew but she didn't tell anybody she'd get really mad at me when i would say like you know what

Speaker 2 internalized homophobia is very real i would get so pissed when people would say something yeah and it's almost one of those things where it's like i uh i always tell her all the time because she beats herself up a lot i'm like listen like i don't think you understand the strength it took from the age of four to have to fight that and like yeah your whole life like and she had a lot of struggles you know in her adult life later on, really, I mean, a lot of that can lead up to it, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like it was a big part of it. And when I asked her, I said, Do you think

Speaker 2 being, you know, closeted was an issue that led to you having all these other adult issues? And she said, absolutely.

Speaker 2 Like, it was, it was the driving force of all of her trauma and everything that comes along with it. And it was just like, so I never heard anybody.

Speaker 2 Like, that's, it's interesting that that was like, I didn't really know. I was like, wow, dang, okay.

Speaker 4 Thankfully, I guess.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 There's a couple of key points. Definitely anyone listening to take out of it, though.

Speaker 4 Like your friend, it has nothing to do with the acceptance of the people around you that limits someone's capability of expressing that part of themselves, right?

Speaker 4 So if someone's hiding that and it's late of them coming out,

Speaker 4 it's never a you issue, right? There's a lot of people feel sad that someone didn't trust them. Like, you know, did they do something wrong? But that's just never the case.

Speaker 4 We just live in a world where we just question it. And so when we,

Speaker 4 I speak to this often, queer people live a very different life from a maturity perspective.

Speaker 4 So your friend lived unauthentically themselves for such a long time that when they finally did come out and live authentically themselves, that's when they kind of started life.

Speaker 4 And so they're starting life at a later period of time, right?

Speaker 2 You're

Speaker 2 maturity-wise. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 So you'll notice that a lot of queer people go through this kind of like crazy unhinged stage later in life is because they are finally themselves or in an environment they feel like they can be themselves when most cis, you know, straight people have just lived authentically themselves their entire life.

Speaker 3 Right. And that makes so much sense.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they went through that kind of crazy period, the age that normal people, yeah, that everyone else does. And there's

Speaker 2 that makes a lot of sense too, because she, she had a problem with it.

Speaker 2 I'm actually the one that was like, listen, because she went to jail and she braided her hair and she got it and then she had my jeans on the desk.

Speaker 4 And I said, just it was your jeans that did your hair.

Speaker 2 I swear. I tell her, we need her her laugh about it all the time.
She's like, dude, I wear those jeans all the time.

Speaker 2 And she put her hair in a button. I said, just here, why don't you wear my hat? And just once she wore that hat and had my, I swear it was like, it was like nothing was in her way.

Speaker 3 I'll never forget. I'll never forget when she told me, like, hey, you know, I just want to let you know, like, I'm gay.
And I said,

Speaker 3 it's okay. I know.
It's okay. I love you.
And I know. And I just tried to hold that space for her, but I was just like, yeah, I know.

Speaker 3 I've known, you know, just waiting for you to want to come and say it.

Speaker 4 I hope you guys know that if you haven't recognized it, you guys probably saved and healed a lot of parts of her.

Speaker 4 If you've never thought through, like, just you being there for her and you being and her being comfortable enough to come out to you. And like, that's huge, right?

Speaker 2 Like, that's really, yeah, I felt really honored because when she did tell me, she,

Speaker 2 you know, she, I could tell she was like, almost like, listen, I'm going to tell you this crazy thing. Yeah.
I'm like, I know.

Speaker 2 She's like, thank God.

Speaker 4 Oh, my God. Like, she started laughing.

Speaker 2 She said, I'm so happy that this is how it is.

Speaker 4 It's crazy that's just how we like that's just how we are coded is just this fear right i mean i went through this i i remember i was at um

Speaker 4 i i had all my guy friends my best friends from high school they were up at my college house and we were playing drinking games and i was so nervous to tell them about me like having a girlfriend you were nervous oh so nervously it's very easy to be very vulnerable i just didn't know what to expect you know you never really know and i they gave me no reasons of ever thinking otherwise but i remember telling them and they were just like love you happy for you can we please keep playing this game like right

Speaker 4 yeah like i was gonna say because i feel like when you are you know you know coming out to people or telling people who you really are as a person it's scary and you there's got to be fear and you're being very vulnerable yeah and coming out never ends i you know Even when I started, I work in corporate America and so you're constantly coming out and every new person call that you meet.

Speaker 2 Like, what do you mean? What does that mean that you just?

Speaker 4 Because people assume, right? People assume, you know, I worked in a male-dominated industry for a while and they asked if I had a boyfriend or husband.

Speaker 4 And so I was always in a situation of having to come out again. And there were certain, you know, I spent a large deal of my first career life of just hiding the best part of myself, right?

Speaker 4 It wasn't worth, wasn't worth the conversation or the potential like backlash of it.

Speaker 4 And I never, I didn't experience any type of

Speaker 4 my family, my parents were accepting, my siblings were accepting. That's good.
I never faced any of that hardship, which is really, you know, not common.

Speaker 4 Like a lot of people find, we have two friends that we recently just became friends with, and they just got engaged, and neither of their families support them.

Speaker 4 And it, and when you get engaged, it's just supposed to be this, just the best frigging time of your life.

Speaker 4 When you get engaged, like those, that month is just the most beautiful month that there is, I think, in your entire relationship.

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know, we threw them like this little surprise

Speaker 2 congratulations.

Speaker 4 And they were just so emotional about it. And

Speaker 4 love is just supposed to be celebrated at any capacity.

Speaker 4 And it makes me really sad that people

Speaker 4 have to question and realize. Leah, too.
Leah, my wife,

Speaker 4 she was her, her direct, her mom and dad were accepting, but she was worried. Her dad's a farmer raised in, you know, in this, in the area that we are.
And she

Speaker 4 we dated for a while before she told him. And it was, you know, I felt a little bad because I was like, I can't do this unless they know because I feel like I'm sneaking around.

Speaker 4 And she wrote him a letter, and he thought she was dying. Like, and he started crying.
And it was just, you know, and he was just happy she wasn't dying.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 So, well, you sound like you're blessed with the people around you.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I've, I collect

Speaker 4 outside my family, my sibling, I have really great relationships with, but outside of that, I collect really good people. I've been so blessed.

Speaker 4 Like, the humans in my life are just genuinely good people,

Speaker 4 male and female.

Speaker 4 Like, we have a core group of friends that they're just,

Speaker 4 and that's, I feel like that's how life is. You are who you surround yourself by.
And that's always just been something I live, I have lived by.

Speaker 2 And she's made up her mind to live pretty smart. Learn to budget responsibly right from the start.

Speaker 2 She spends a little less in boots more inter savings, keeps her blood pressure low and credit score raises. She's gonna get red out of her life.

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Speaker 4 Honestly, that's a part of the reason that me and Kale, we weren't friends for the past five years.

Speaker 4 We just, um, she just had surrounded herself with really toxic people, and that was the only situation that I was around toxicness besides my like past relationships.

Speaker 2 Oh really? Like so so you're saying five years you guys are not friends because you didn't like like the people she was around or so I was in a really bad place in life.

Speaker 4 It was 2020. I went through a really dark like wanted to take dirt naps all the time like did not want to be here and so I wasn't able to be present for myself and just adding the stress.

Speaker 4 I mean you guys know Kale she has constant just shit going on around her and just chaos around her.

Speaker 4 And at that point, it was just, you know, she was with Chris and there was just a lot of toxic nature around just

Speaker 4 what she was in. And I just couldn't, I couldn't handle it.
I couldn't deal with it. I didn't want to be alive.
So how was I supposed to want to be alive or, you know, the weight of that as well?

Speaker 4 So that was, we had

Speaker 4 a falling out based on a different conversation, but it all, it kind of all played.

Speaker 2 So the falling out happened because you were like, listen, I can't. No, the falling out.

Speaker 4 I I won't get too deep into it, but the falling out happened. It was based on a political conversation in 2020.

Speaker 2 Okay. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 4 I don't give credit to just that. I think it was an overall we were

Speaker 4 both being played by people that were in her life of just like people bringing the worst out of me, right? People were coming to me. Like, I just started becoming.

Speaker 4 a version of myself that I didn't even, I didn't like. And then she, that, they would go back to Kale and chirp in her ear about

Speaker 3 piling.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I don't deal with that in my life, right? Right.

Speaker 4 Good people in my life. So it was just, it was not a good time for, and then Kale was going through what she was going through, and it wasn't a good time for either of us.

Speaker 4 And you know, now people are like, how are you starting?

Speaker 4 Kale and I started a podcast, Karma and Chaos. And

Speaker 4 they're like, give your guys a second. Like, you just started your friendship again.
And it's not like that because we cared and loved for each other for, you know, almost 10 years prior to that.

Speaker 4 We were, we were great friends. And I mean, did people watch the video?

Speaker 3 She's standing outside your door and she's already bawling

Speaker 3 hysterically before she even sees you. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And I, and

Speaker 4 I, I love and care for her so much as a person. And so

Speaker 4 that never,

Speaker 4 that just kind of came back. And we are both the best versions of ourselves now than we've ever been.
And so we finally get to give each other a friendship that we deserve.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. It's been a really beautiful, she reached out to me.

Speaker 4 So my dad passed away in June. Like yeah, two weeks before my, our, mine and Leo's wedding.
Oh, wow. And Kale reached out when my dad passed away.

Speaker 4 And so I was struggling with a lot of grief, obviously. And

Speaker 4 I was struggling with people in my life who were important with my, in my life that didn't reach out to, you know, that didn't, because of whatever reason, they didn't, you know, just give their whatever that word is that you're supposed to.

Speaker 4 Or just be there for you.

Speaker 4 yeah and so when kale reached out it just like kind of struck something inside me of just validating my own grief of of other people and validating that you should reach out when something

Speaker 4 evaluate who you're around like wait why yeah aren't these people and all that yeah it was it was a very i mean grief brings up so much right and so

Speaker 4 from that we it was funny she she we started a conversation after kind of just check uh catching up and she called me and i was was like, listen, I'm going to be honest, like, I talked my shit the past five years, and I don't want to, I don't want this to come up now.

Speaker 4 And she just like respected that, that I was just like, hey, I talked my shit to the end.

Speaker 2 What do you mean? What do you mean?

Speaker 4 Just like, I just let people come. When Kale Hub would have falling outs with people, they would always come to me to talk shit.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's weird. Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Because they knew, because. And did you know these people that were like, yeah, like most, yeah, most of them I knew.

Speaker 4 And just, and and, you know, you guys know how the life is right after me and Kale had our breakup or whatever it is that you call it, you know, tabloids were reaching out to me one after another trying to get me to sell my story.

Speaker 4 And I think that's also why it was so easy for us because I never went, I never publicly talked about her. I never publicly, you know, talked about our situation.

Speaker 3 And that comes down to you being a good person and you care about the people that you care about, you know, that you love.

Speaker 4 Right. yeah.
And so that's what I said to Kale, it wasn't really more so me talking shit. It was more me welcoming people talking about her.
And that just never left like a good

Speaker 4 feeling for me. Yeah.
But again, that's, I was just like, I don't want these people coming forward and being like,

Speaker 2 right, right.

Speaker 2 And she was like, yeah.

Speaker 3 Okay. Just lay it all out on the table now.

Speaker 2 And you still hang out with those people. Like those people are still in your life.
Okay. No.
No, no.

Speaker 4 They weren't people in my life to begin with. It's just like, for whatever reason, when Kale would have issues with people, they would just

Speaker 2 scurry over to me. I'm just surprising

Speaker 4 every single one.

Speaker 2 It's like a damn plague. Like, they want to just get, let me collect as many people that can hate and agree with my opinion as much as possible.

Speaker 4 It's toxic. Yeah, I just, and that's, and it's,

Speaker 4 I've done a really conscious effort in removing myself from toxic situations.

Speaker 4 I've been in toxic relationships that have hurt people I love because of that relationship pouring over over into my other relationships. And so I'm very conscious of who I give my energy to.
Same.

Speaker 4 And I've been so impressed with Kale in these past however many months of re-getting to know her. And she's grown up so much in the five years that I've been gone.

Speaker 4 You know, she even said, you know, we were talking and she was just like, and

Speaker 4 she was talking about scheduling stuff to record our podcast. And she's like, like, I can come to you, no problem.
And that was never something that Kale would have said when we were friends before.

Speaker 2 What would she have said before?

Speaker 4 That I just drove to her all the time. And almost 10 years of friendship, she had been to my house like a couple of times.
Like it was a huge one. Yeah.
It was like a very, and

Speaker 4 that's interesting. Yeah.
And so, you know, I said to her, I was like, Kale, I just want you to know, like, I recognize this effort and I really, it's really appreciated.

Speaker 4 And she was, you know, she was like, I wasn't a good equal friend to you before.

Speaker 4 And I don't want that to be the situation now and i want to make sure that you know that and even things like little things like that right she'll check in on me and not that she didn't check on me on in on me before it's different right it is different like she cares she i i feel that she cares about me a lot more as a human

Speaker 4 and like i really value that and that's something and i don't keep people around that aren't making those efforts anymore.

Speaker 2 That's a good point. And I feel like her taking accountability is just

Speaker 2 another another example of the growth and that you have to have humility in order to bridge this gap.

Speaker 2 And I feel like, yeah, I think it's right for you to acknowledge it to her and say, like, because people need to hear it.

Speaker 2 Because honestly, I feel like we have a similar, like, you know, just going to therapy and just learning about yourself.

Speaker 2 And so when you do all the work, and it's nice to get validated from someone outside, hey, I see it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, I thank you because I've been blowing my eyes out for, you know, doing all the shadow work. It's hard.

Speaker 3 It's hard work. Yeah, when people are doing good and they're making changes, it's important.

Speaker 2 I feel like if you see it and you are a true friend you do tell them those things like i i make it a point to reach out to all my friends at least once every two weeks and i just say how you doing yeah i just had a kid like i just and it's funny because uh one of my friends wrote me and said hey like how about how are you doing and i was like whoa i was like you know you're the only one that asked me how i'm doing in years

Speaker 2 and uh It's not that I expect them to, you know, return the favor, but it's just one of those things where it's like, if I have a sense of like, I haven't heard from them in a minute, how are are they doing?

Speaker 2 It's important just to, I think, checking up is like one of the best things.

Speaker 4 If someone crosses your mind, text them.

Speaker 4 It's something that I've always lived by.

Speaker 2 And I meditate and I'll be like, listen, you came across my conscience today. I just wanted to reach out and say, how, you know, what you want to do.

Speaker 3 Check in, and then just thinking of you.

Speaker 2 Sometimes they'll write you back a novel. Like,

Speaker 4 you never know what someone's going through.

Speaker 2 So I just want to check in on people is super important.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I was actually just conscious. I was on

Speaker 4 my flight here and I was consciously thinking I've been pretty absent at like I've been pretty absent from my friends the past couple of I would say past month and a half just because Leah and I have been really deep in IVF and I was like now that things have slowed down a little bit I consciously thought I need to everyone's been checking on me which I needed this past month and a half, which is totally fine.

Speaker 4 But I, when I get home, I was like, I need to do a trip around the world and just,

Speaker 4 you know, reach out to those people and check in with them and make sure that they're, they're good too.

Speaker 2 Right. So how is IVF? Like how is that whole process? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, especially being, you know, like a lesbian couple, like going, you know?

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 it's a lot. IVF is a lot for anyone.

Speaker 4 No one prepares you for the mental roller coaster that comes with IVF. We started in February and we

Speaker 4 let's go, let's go through the list. Yes, yes, yes.
Because

Speaker 4 I don't want to just give you the ending. Yes, you know.

Speaker 4 And so when you start with IVF, first you, you know, you go and do your baseline testing, figure out, making sure that this is for a queer, for my experience, for straight people, it's a little different because obviously, if you're going into that, you're going because you think that there's an infertility issue where you need help, which is so freaking common that it's not talked about enough.

Speaker 4 For us, we don't have any,

Speaker 4 we didn't go because we had infertility issues. We just don't have that

Speaker 2 with us. Right, right, right, yes.

Speaker 4 And so we went and did our baseline testing. They they reach out to your insurance.
IVF is fucking expensive, and it shouldn't be. Um, it shouldn't be at the time.

Speaker 4 Neither of our insurances covered it. Luckily, my job switched uh

Speaker 4 their benefit package, and mine ended up did covering it, so we only had to pay for Leah. But we decided that we wanted to do co-IVF, and so that's when you do egg retrievals, you

Speaker 4 fertilize the eggs, and then you swap. So Leo, Leo will carry my embryo, I'll carry her embryo.

Speaker 3 Oh, so you both are going to carry.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 4 we went through also a unique donor selecting process.

Speaker 4 Typically what people do is they'll go online, they'll go to a cryobank, and they'll select a donor based on a baby picture and just a little bit of information.

Speaker 4 That donor stays private and hidden until the child is 18, then the file opens. That's a pretty common.

Speaker 4 Luckily, I had someone reach out because they started a company. They didn't like that experience and wanted a more personal experience.
Oh, nice. And so it was a queer couple.

Speaker 4 It was a pediatrician and a lawyer. They started a private donor matching company.
It's called Seed Scout. And so we went through Seed Scout and it was...

Speaker 4 the only good experience through this whole entire journey.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 we essentially interviewed people.

Speaker 3 That's amazing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so we consciously got to choose a really good human that could be a really huge part of our life.

Speaker 4 In most cases, gay men can't donate to sperm banks.

Speaker 2 And it's all wow. What?

Speaker 3 I never knew that.

Speaker 4 Gay men can't donate blood either.

Speaker 2 It's like, it's all out there. Oh, but I do.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 It's just.

Speaker 4 I don't, that's really. Our country is very codified.

Speaker 3 Well, they should be able to donate blood too. You know, you just run tests.

Speaker 2 Everything's tested.

Speaker 2 It's crazy. But that part.
Oh, man. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So, most, a lot of the men that are a part of Seed Scout are gay men looking to help queer families start, you know, start their own family because they know they're going to have to have help at some point as well.

Speaker 4 So we

Speaker 4 went through this process. They gave us probably like 60 people to start with.
Then we went down to six. Then we interviewed two.
We fell in love, like in love with our donor.

Speaker 4 We met him and his husband and we talked the first time. We probably talked for like three hours.

Speaker 4 And it just felt, we just felt so lucky that we had met him as a person. Right.

Speaker 4 And then we got to consciously make that choice that if our child ever wants to know that side of them, then we know that's a good person they're going to. That's beautiful.

Speaker 4 And we get ongoing medical history, and, you know, which is really important to us. And then they also limit.
to three families that he can donate to. You can

Speaker 4 pay extra to have exclusive with him, but we welcome that three family. So we actually get introduced to the other families as well.

Speaker 4 We actually, Lee and I just went out to dinner with one of the families last weekend. So we met them for the first time.

Speaker 2 So they already have a child right now.

Speaker 4 No, they're trying right now. So our kids are going to be half siblings,

Speaker 4 but we're going to raise them almost like cousins, like, you know, go on family vacations and make sure they know each other and know. We're basically creating our queer little family around.

Speaker 3 You know what, though, in my opinion, that's fucking beautiful.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And it's beautiful to witness and to hear. Like that's amazing.
Okay. Keep going.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

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B21.

Speaker 2 Well, that's the way it should be. Yeah,

Speaker 2 like, like, you know, the fact of like you're actually consciously making a decision to not only invite this person, but the potential to be like a part of the person.

Speaker 4 And you have those conversations, right? Some people go into this not wanting a relationship, and that's totally fine. You can have, you know,

Speaker 4 we get a yearly medical update, you get a yearly picture. And that's how some people want it, which is totally fair.

Speaker 4 For us, we wanted, you know, it was funny when we met him, they were just speaking to how their parents are having a little bit of a harder time just conceptualizing it not being their grandchild.

Speaker 2 Right. Okay.

Speaker 4 Because essentially

Speaker 4 it isn't because it's our child.

Speaker 4 It'll be our child.

Speaker 2 But I was like, if your parents want to love our kid like a grandchild, let them.

Speaker 3 See, this is why I told you if I could go back, I would have picked the gayest couple.

Speaker 2 Yeah, about like, because our adoption journey was obviously.

Speaker 3 It's what it reminds me a lot about, where it's like, you know, you can have these small things or you can be very together. And all that does is love the child more.
Yeah. You know, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 I don't understand why people even have the other idea of like what could be so.

Speaker 3 I think it's fear-based.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, it is fear-based because you never know someone's choice can change.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Obviously, someone's decision can change of what they're. Yeah.
And I think for us, that's why it was important for us to find someone that was.

Speaker 4 married in a relationship that had stability that knew already what their future looked like or what they wanted where

Speaker 4 and also them being a gay couple it's not like another female is going to come in and feel some type of ownership right or some type of way about it so it was beautiful it was and we i we met him for the first time we went out he lives in chicago we went and out to dinner with them i'll show you guys pictures of him later he's beautiful too oh he's beautiful it makes it even better you know yeah yeah um so that was the only good part of our entire journey was choosing our donor uh the rest has been a fucking nightmare uh you have to go through psych evaluations, genetic counseling, lawyers.

Speaker 4 You have to.

Speaker 2 Genetic counseling. What is genetic counseling?

Speaker 4 So you have to, we have to do genetic testing, and our donor has to do genetic testing to make sure we don't, aren't carriers of the same genes.

Speaker 4 Because when you're carriers of the same genes, you have a higher chance of passing that along to your child.

Speaker 4 And that can cause birth defects and things of those sorts, which is really bad, which is... crazy because stray people are just raw dogging it through yeah

Speaker 4 right exactly yeah so

Speaker 4 after you do genetic testing, they come back and you have to have a meeting with a genetic counselor and they go through your genes, the donor's family history, and explaining the likelihood of based on their medical history, what it looks like moving forward, just so you know.

Speaker 4 Okay. Which was fine.

Speaker 4 It's just another way to have to pay more money for that.

Speaker 2 Of course.

Speaker 4 Yeah, our genes were fine. It did it.

Speaker 3 Which is good because you already love this family.

Speaker 4 And that was so nerve-wracking. We were waiting for our genetic testing to get back.
And I told the person that owns the donor company at Seed Scout, I was like,

Speaker 4 listen, I never want to go through this again.

Speaker 4 I'm just letting you know, get people's genetic testing done before they fall in love with someone because we would have been heartbroken

Speaker 4 if we had to go through that again. So, yeah, it was just, we am.
I don't know if you guys know this. IVF costs are private.
So, every clinic is different costs based on their own choosing.

Speaker 4 So, I had to price price shop essentially. I had to go pay $300 fees just to understand what their pricing was for their IBM.
And since, you know, we chose to do a more expensive way.

Speaker 4 That's how we wanted to do it. And we didn't want money to be the reason we didn't start our family how it was.

Speaker 2 You should find a really big difference in private. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 Insane.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 3 Insane. In opinion, that is wrong.
You're literally taking from people who literally just want to have a family.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And so, yeah.
And at the time, we thought we both had to pay. So we went with a more affordable option.

Speaker 4 We've had a really shit experience, not the quality of care, but we've just had a terrible, like we've just been a number in their system. And that is what it is.

Speaker 4 It was worth it to us because it was a third of the cost of anywhere else. And so

Speaker 4 it's been awful.

Speaker 2 The experience has been awful.

Speaker 4 But with that being said,

Speaker 4 One thing I didn't expect either was when we did our retrievals a couple weeks ago, and retrievals is when they take eggs to be able to fertilize turn them into embryos i only got one embryo out of my retrieval wow i had like and i don't know why i'm a pretty emotionally aware person of my emotions but i had a full like mental breakdown i was his i just felt like disappointed in my body like did i do something you know you felt betrayed by your own body yeah yeah and so and then we went to do our transfers and the doctor was like oh someone your your age that's normal the second time you go you'll have a better outcome and i was like why didn't anyone fucking?

Speaker 4 Why didn't you tell me that, man?

Speaker 2 I'm having a mental breakdown.

Speaker 4 Yeah, like we would have mentally prepared to have to do two retrievals, right? And so there was just a lot of emotion. And you're on hormone shots every day for me.

Speaker 2 Oh, you are. Yes.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 4 I mean, like seven different medicine. It's

Speaker 4 wild. Yeah, have side effects and stuff.

Speaker 2 I mean, this is hormonal, you said, so I'm assuming there's something.

Speaker 4 I'm an emotional person. I cry probably twice a day.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 4 for some reason, I think the hormones leveled me out like i felt like hey can i get some more of those

Speaker 4 can you prescribe those for me yeah leo was leah is normally not a moody person she was moody like and people are like what how could you do it together it was beautiful we were also obsessed with each other so it just made sense for us to do it together

Speaker 4 um leah got nine healthy embryos out of her um out of her transfer and then because i only had one they said that we should do a fresh transfer so tip there's two different types of transfers you can do you can freeze the embryos and then do a frozen transfer at any point and transfers are when they implant the embryo into you okay um

Speaker 4 but because i only had one there's a there's a slight a higher chance of embryo embryos kind of dying through the the process right no like that making it the freezing process

Speaker 4 so they didn't want to freeze my embryo because i only had one yeah so leah and I both did five-day fresh transfers like three weeks ago

Speaker 4 my transfer did not take but Leah's did so that one and Leah's pregnant right now

Speaker 4 it makes me so happy I know it's still early but and that's a whole nother

Speaker 4 we never really had to we had to navigate the telling of people of absolutely too early because she's technically when we're recording this now She's six weeks and so still very early it's scary times early But you know what I had a conversation with someone that miscarriages and things of those things are so common that and they're just not talked about enough right issues and complications and so when you wait till they say 12 weeks everyone doesn't get to experience that little glimmer of excitement and hope with us right don't rob it from us yeah and how can if something happens how can they be there with you to support you 100

Speaker 4 That's exactly. And so we're getting, we are so over the moon right now.
We're excited. I'll do another transfer again and I'll try again.

Speaker 4 I wasn't even sad about my transfer not working because I was just so ecstatic about Leah's. Like my little embryo is like inside.

Speaker 2 Oh, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Yeah. And so.

Speaker 3 So she's carrying your one embryo.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So my one embryo to be like, your one embryo to be like, you guys are both going to be like creating a piece of each other.

Speaker 4 So, wow, that's why we did it. Yes.
And that's what it was important to me because, and initially, I never wanted to be pregnant. That was never on my bingo card.

Speaker 4 My friends

Speaker 4 would have been, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 What are you talking about? Why do you think you didn't want to be?

Speaker 4 Because when we started going through this, Leah was, you know, we sat down and she was like, Becky, I'm nervous about carrying your.

Speaker 4 The plan was for her always to carry my embryo first because, so we're both a part of this first pregnancy journey. And she was like, what if this is the only child I can carry?

Speaker 4 What if something happens and I'm never able to carry my own or I'm never able to bring my own blood into this world? Completely valid.

Speaker 4 And I said, I would love to carry your embryo. And she was like, What?

Speaker 5 I was, she was like, Really?

Speaker 4 I was like, Are you kidding? Like, how fucking beautiful is that I get to carry a piece of you? Like, I don't give a shit about carrying my own embryo, but like, I get to like to do that for you.

Speaker 4 Like, how, that's the best thing that I could do.

Speaker 3 You guys guys are beautiful.

Speaker 4 That's so much fun. And so that's where that came from.
And if it ends up being that I can't carry, I think that the

Speaker 4 effort that I made to, I think, eased Leah's mind enough that we, that, that we're trying, right? Right.

Speaker 4 And it's not uncommon for someone, I'm 34, and so it's not uncommon for transfers not to work either. So it's not some huge shocker.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's why we were just happy with hers working and all of her blood work keeps getting stronger and stronger.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, and if it doesn't work for you, you know, we have eight embryos left of hers.

Speaker 4 So we're going to be able to do that.

Speaker 3 She could carry her own if you know you guys are like, we want another child.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I actually think I'm going to do another retrieval before I do a transfer, just so I have a couple more embryos frozen ready for if the day ever comes.

Speaker 3 And was that process painful? The retrieval part?

Speaker 4 So I didn't have any issues with the retrieval part.

Speaker 4 The aftermath is a little weird. It like they had to go through through my abdomen as well as

Speaker 4 like inside. And so

Speaker 4 you just have like tight just pain. So like when you try to go to the bathroom, you can't push because like it's just like cramping.
Yeah. Leah had some complications after her retrieval.

Speaker 4 She had a lot of fluid, which could happen, but

Speaker 3 overall

Speaker 3 differently.

Speaker 4 I wouldn't tell people not to do it. Right.
Like it's nothing to be afraid of. It's worth it.

Speaker 4 It sucks. It is what it is.
Everyone responds to like, this past week has been wild because it just, everything kind of just happened.

Speaker 4 This past week, I just started coming down off a month of hormones. And so it was just, I was just, I was getting my period for the first time after being,

Speaker 4 so this month, this past week was just crazy.

Speaker 2 You've been through it.

Speaker 4 I'm like, like, Leah's like, and it was funny. So they didn't call us when they were supposed to to tell us our pregnancy results.
And like Leah was hysterically crying in bed.

Speaker 4 And I'm sitting there like wide-eyed, like looking at her, like, this girl better be pregnant because what the fuck is going on right now?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But it sounds like there needs to be some reform, even in that department.

Speaker 2 Oh, as far as I can see.

Speaker 4 There just needs to be more guidance of expectations, right? So we didn't have any expectations of how long certain phases were of what we needed. They just send you

Speaker 4 like 14 different medicines and shots and expect you. Leah's a medical provider.
She's a PA.

Speaker 2 so she knows that work. God, right? Yeah.
God. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And if it wasn't for her, like, and not for nothing. Also, a lot of people going through IVF might not have that support of a husband that can help and guide through that journey too.

Speaker 4 And I think about that often of just how lonely we were lucky we got to do it together. We had each other to go through that.
Just how lonely some people must feel going through that.

Speaker 4 process and the emotions that come from it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, IVF could benefit from maybe having like a psychological department with each IVF, like

Speaker 2 a facility or whatever you want to call it, they have like a counterpart.

Speaker 4 I think it should be a caseworker.

Speaker 4 Each person should have a caseworker that helps guide them through each step.

Speaker 4 And it could be that way at other places. That's just not the experience that we have.

Speaker 4 And it could be because we went to somewhere that was cheaper, right? Like we're not getting that personalized experience. It could have been different.
And so

Speaker 4 outside the medical part of it all, I mean, there should be some kind of psychological like just support just support yeah yeah i started therapy i restarted therapy a couple months ago knowing that we were going to go through this um because i wanted someone to know me as a human before all the drugs yeah right like i didn't want to like walk into therapy and just be like hysterically crying and them not knowing me as a person at all right um so i highly definitely suggest finding a therapist throughout this process too because it can be it can be lonely because there's different

Speaker 4 Obviously, we've been we have such a great relationship that we're able to communicate that, but there's so many unexpected feelings that come up through this process

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 4 having a therapist, having a therapist in general is great. It's healthy.
It is healthy.

Speaker 3 What a beautiful, like

Speaker 3 at the end of it, it's such a beautiful thing. Yeah,

Speaker 3 like how exciting.

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Speaker 4 People always say that you're never really ready to have kids, but I think that for us,

Speaker 4 everything kind of made sense.

Speaker 4 I was a partier. I was

Speaker 4 a different

Speaker 4 state every weekend. Leah's a home buddy, which was fine.
That worked for our relationship. She stayed home.
I went out.

Speaker 4 And until a couple, I would say the past couple years, I enjoy sitting at home on the couch with Leah more than anything in this world. And our lives just kind of slowed down.

Speaker 4 We slowed down with our friends. Like we have friends that come over and we hang out and that quote.
And we were just ready. We were just like, yeah, like I'm excited.

Speaker 4 We're excited to experience life with a child now to give them the love. We have so much fucking love to give.
And we have so much love. We have so much support around us.

Speaker 4 And we were just so, we're just so ready. And that's also another thing Leah is highly

Speaker 4 speaks about is if anyone anyone is thinking in the future of wanting to have kids, especially if you're queer, start the process now. We wanted to be pregnant in January, right?

Speaker 4 And so it's been almost a year of this whole process because you could do the process, freeze your embryos, and let them sit there until you're ready to have kids. Right.
But just start.

Speaker 4 Start it, yeah. Because you never know what's going to happen.
You never know, you know, the hurdles that, and you want to, when you're ready to have kids, you want to be able to enjoy it.

Speaker 4 It, it almost doesn't feel real yet because it's just been this scientific process of frustration and,

Speaker 4 you know, ebbs and flows and like whatever.

Speaker 2 But yeah. I'm excited.
I can't wait. I'm like, I don't even know you, but now I know you.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, I know. I love it.
I'm like, oh my God, you guys are so beautiful.

Speaker 2 I'm like a little puddle over here. Seriously.

Speaker 2 It's funny how you mention how like she's more of a homebody or whatever. Yeah.
No, because I feel like we were similar. I was always like, let's go.
I'm going to talk to people.

Speaker 2 And she was more like, dude, i just want to like chill in my house that yeah

Speaker 2 please don't put me in that situation now and then now i'm like i i'm like i'm not hurt i'm unhurt i'm not hurt now it's more sometimes i'm like come on can we please leave i know and i'm like get out of here

Speaker 2 like such a peaceful yeah thing because you you experienced the party and all yeah but now it's like wow this is really nice i've

Speaker 4 i've lived a life for enough people of hundreds of people i've traveled the world i've experienced life i've given everything into my early 20s that you're supposed to. And

Speaker 3 which is so awesome. Now it's time to settle down and give that to a little person.

Speaker 4 I can't even explain. There's no regress now because you didn't.

Speaker 2 No, none. I don't have to sit here like, I didn't get to experience this.

Speaker 4 Literally none. I feel bad a little bit for Leah because she was, she's a physician's assistant.
So her life was a little bit different than mine.

Speaker 4 She didn't get to, I lived college, how everyone's supposed to live college.

Speaker 4 She was studying all through college. So she has a little bit more more traveling that I'd like to see her just experience in the world.

Speaker 3 But you know what's cool? But she has, we have time.

Speaker 3 And you know what's cool, though? It's like your child gets to experience it with you guys and her for the first time, you know? Oh, for sure. That's beautiful.

Speaker 4 Yeah, we're gonna.

Speaker 4 We're excited.

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh, I can't wait to keep up on that.

Speaker 3 I can't wait. You guys are cute.
And I have never even met her. And I'm like, you guys are so cute.

Speaker 2 We need to get her on next.

Speaker 4 I can't wait for the world to just, because

Speaker 4 leah's one of those people and it'll be interesting to see how she does in kind of a scenario leah's really funny but she isn't funny for everyone and you know what i mean like yeah she's a silly goofy girl like she is

Speaker 4 she is so freaking like cute and funny but not everyone gets to really see that like side of her until she is a little bit more comfortable but i'm hoping I'm hoping throughout this, you know, people get to know her and see her.

Speaker 4 She's the best.

Speaker 2 Especially Especially because now that's like, it's like, you can almost just, this is what, this is how our life is. This is the process that we're in.

Speaker 2 And it's like, what a, almost, what a beautiful way to introduce like everything. It's like, this is, it's like, this is what's going on.
And this is what, this is what we built. Like, this in this,

Speaker 2 you've already done your stuff. You partied.
You got all of your systems. Everything.
And now it's like, now I'm, now I'm family life. And it's so like, yeah.

Speaker 4 And I'm excited. It's, it's always been fun for me.

Speaker 4 I've always done well with the attention that comes with being friends with Kale and the things that come along with it.

Speaker 4 And I've always been very conscious of using that attention for things that are going to give back to the world. And even throughout this process of IBF and

Speaker 4 Lee and I creating a family, or even Lee and I getting married, the feedback that I am able to get from people of, you know, we give them hope of what they could potentially have in the future is just, that is what I cannot, I just love that social media gives that to us, right?

Speaker 4 Social media gives us this hope that other people might not see.

Speaker 3 That I never had this representation that that's what I mean for the younger generations, too, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Somebody who feels maybe a little different, you know, like to see people and be like, oh, it's okay. Cause in the future I could have these things.

Speaker 3 I feel like a lot of queer people and trans people, you know, they don't have that.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, it's becoming more common. Yeah.
Just because people like you and our friends, they talk about it.

Speaker 2 Well, by sharing their story. Yeah.
That's why me and me always talk about, like, if T-Mom ever tried to shift over to like housewives kind of shit or we're out.

Speaker 2 Because we always say, like, listen, like, I don't, we don't like to do anything meaningless. I want purpose.

Speaker 2 I want a moral compass for sure in this journey.

Speaker 3 Even if it's one person, I did what I was supposed to, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so we're like, listen, there has to be a bigger reason for why we've gotten this

Speaker 4 undeserving spotlight.

Speaker 2 Like, we don't know why this happened, but here it is. And so let's not waste it.

Speaker 4 Do something good with it.

Speaker 4 I'm so ecstatic that you guys are starting a podcast because leaves

Speaker 4 It leaves you to be able to do that a little bit more.

Speaker 2 Yes, and I love it more freedom because, like, there's so many, you know, T-Mom has changed so yeah, and it's clips of your life.

Speaker 4 It's like it's little, you know, consumable clips that are

Speaker 3 just like a fraction and they're just picked out by somebody else. Yes, there's so much more.

Speaker 2 Thoughtful thoughts.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's so much more.

Speaker 2 But also, it's like me and Kate have done so much work behind the scenes, like just with therapy and just couples counting all that. Just growing, getting older.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's like that stuff, we have a spotlight. Let's just, before it fades, let's

Speaker 2 get all that out there, which is really why we wanted to start this whole podcast in the first place. Yeah, that's beautiful.

Speaker 2 People have been telling us to do it right.

Speaker 3 Well, and we can dive deeper into things

Speaker 2 that are important to us.

Speaker 4 Do that. Conversations are so important.
Like life, and I speak to this so much: is life's not supposed to be lived alone. And we, like, pain is so universal, and

Speaker 4 life's fucking hard. And

Speaker 4 why do it by yourself? And why why not share? Right?

Speaker 4 We have to use the things that happen to us in a way to give back because if we don't, it's just going to consume us.

Speaker 4 And so, what better way to make something worth of pain by helping someone else go through that pain or prevent someone from going through that by using that?

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 And that's feeling alone because I feel like everyone's got something going on. Oh, yeah.
I always try to filter my, even when I'm feeling myself being judgmental.

Speaker 2 I'm like, wait a minute, like, all right, there's something going on. I don't know about it.
There's, you know, there's always something deeper going on.

Speaker 2 Even with the people who are the most cruel and vile, like, you're like, okay, this is coming from somewhere.

Speaker 2 So I feel like, like, thankfully, we're people that think like that, not everybody does, you know?

Speaker 2 Something that's really important that me and Kate strive for is just staying curious. I always want to be curious.

Speaker 2 I don't ever want to label something and just be done with it and put it on the shelf. I want to always keep it open.

Speaker 3 And that's why, like, when we saw who we were, you know, gonna

Speaker 3 interview you, you, I was like, we don't know anything about Becky. I only know a little bit.

Speaker 4 And he was like, well, that that makes it even better We're gonna have the best conversation ever and I'm like you guys should have seen us we like got here and we're just sitting here in silence because we're like trying not to yap too much

Speaker 2 is important

Speaker 4 that's how we grow yeah I mean

Speaker 2 you got to stay curious about your own healing your own journey other people's and I feel like this podcast and this platform is kind of like the perfect

Speaker 4 yeah I think it's gonna open it's gonna open a lot of doors for the two of you to, because you're just such like thought-seeking people, I can tell already, that it's going to open doors for you to continue to grow at a different pace and different perspective than you were able to before.

Speaker 4 You know, consciously making sure that you're bringing on people that are going to challenge you

Speaker 4 and educate you in your own personal growth, which is, I mean, not for nothing, it's going to make you better parents too, right?

Speaker 4 Like you make more connections with people and you allow yourself to open your eyes to that to the possibilities of what could happen and it just makes you a better person overall

Speaker 2 i'm like you don't gain anything by being around people who agree with everything you do like that that is a literally the the definition of being stagnant like you never evolve and if you're not evolving you're just losing like you're you're dying so like the whole point of this is to evolve until i can't no more and it's like that should never be like it's kind of like inhibited because you're surrounding yourself by people who i don't i always say I want to be the dumbest person in the room That's yeah I want I want to surround myself with people who are wiser more experienced because like what do I have to gain if I'm around people who are like yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, I agree with you. It's like no, I love opposing viewpoints.
I love oh god does he

Speaker 4 would love you would love to have a night at my house with my friends because

Speaker 4 we all don't agree on everything and we all agree on the things that matter right

Speaker 4 from you know a moral position but uh we don't agree on and it's always just like bickering back and forth of just it's funny but there's healthy bickering oh for sure and I feel like it's actually important to do that oh 100%

Speaker 2 let's go back and forth about our opposing viewpoints like that's interesting to me because I feel like without that there's no growth no then I'm like if I'm not growing I might as well just die now

Speaker 3 so now you know moving like moving forward all I know now is I want to meet your wife now. You guys sound like amazing people.

Speaker 4 Yeah, Leah is

Speaker 3 the best. I think we need to set something up if she's ever comfortable, even Zoom.

Speaker 4 Like, I want to like

Speaker 4 you guys. She likes

Speaker 4 to, she, like, gives, like, can feel energy, and she, I can tell that she would like being.

Speaker 3 I would love to keep up on your guys' story. Because, like I said, I have a, and I just want to say thank you for coming on and just being vulnerable and sharing who you are as a person.

Speaker 3 I think it's beautiful. And

Speaker 2 now we're in bed.

Speaker 3 No, I am. I said, who she's like talking about all this stuff to her wife.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I'm such a puddle.

Speaker 5 They're so cute. Well, you guys have a house.

Speaker 4 We have a house that is open to people, like hosting people. If you and the fam ever want to come to New Jersey, in the mountain, we have like a mountain house, basically.

Speaker 4 Um, it's beautiful, no cell servers, you said? No, kids can come. There's it's we live on 20 acres, so like lots of stuff in my camper.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I'll camp a hundred yards somewhere.

Speaker 4 Yeah, please come.

Speaker 4 Um, but I thank you guys for having me on. I've really enjoyed this conversation, and I think that there's gonna be a nice friendship that that comes from this.

Speaker 2 I'm so excited. Thank you.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you have a podcast.

Speaker 2 So where can people, where can they find you?

Speaker 4 All of my socials are Hater25, H-A-Y-T-E-R.

Speaker 4 That's Instagram, anything, whatever it is. That's the name for it.
And then Karma and Chaos, you can find that on Spotify, Apple.

Speaker 4 You can find me always on Kale's Instagram as well, which I'm sure everyone listening knows who that is. And then For the Haters is my own personal podcast.

Speaker 2 I remember that. Yeah.
I'm excited to see that.

Speaker 3 That'd be good. We need to come on that.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 4 A thousand percent.

Speaker 3 It fits with us like a thousand.

Speaker 4 I would love to have you guys on that.

Speaker 2 All right, well,

Speaker 3 all right, we got some things to

Speaker 2 ruin.

Speaker 2 Thanks, Soph. Break it down.
Yeah.