Club Shay Shay - Killer Mike Part 2

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Thank you for coming back.

Part two is underway.

Would you consider,

because you're so versed, because you're so well read, because you know the history of this country and you understand what our people are going through, would you ever consider running for political political office?

Yeah, but

I got to get real.

You got to get some more paper, though.

Yeah, real talk.

Y'all want to be unbribable.

Yeah.

See, a lot of our folks get caught up because they're poor.

You know what I mean?

What I mean is when you're poor is when you like, if you look at white politicians, they're doctors, they're lawyers, they're engineers, they're people that understand the economy and finance.

So they are above.

They are above certain levels of bribery.

Man, some of my folks get caught taking $3,700 for a goddamn youth league team or some shit.

And you be like, God damn that, bro.

You're too intelligent.

We ain't need to lose you for it.

know so for me it's important that i that i have a certain amount of stability so when i get at about 22 23 million dollars you see me pop up i'll run for something local hyper local you know what i mean so i i want i want to service my community but right now the best thing i can do to service my community is be as strong individuals i can take care of this women and children you know take care my sisters my take care of my nieces nephews and and once we as a family get stable you know i want to be the i want to be the kennedys you know i want to be i want to i've seen the king family.

I've seen the King family keep the integrity.

I've seen the King family make good investments.

I've seen Bernice and Dexter, God bless the dead, and Yolanda, God bless the dead, and Martin III do solid investments in our community.

And so I want to be that.

I don't want to be pandering.

I remember Bernie Sanders, I met with the OG one time in D.C.

Me King, and Nina Turner met, and

I think with Eddie Gaugh, too.

Bernie said, you used to come to DC to make a change and go back home and say, this is the change we've made.

Now we've just become a political fundraising, you know.

And I didn't like the idea of that.

That's not what I want to be a part of.

You had young Thug on the album also.

Yeah, shout out to Thug.

Let me ask you this.

What do you feel about, and I don't get this.

Why would all of a sudden they release those jail, those recorded jailhouse calls?

I mean, as a consorted effort to

keep black people out of power.

As Thug matured, I saw him mature as a human being.

As he matured, past, you young, you got ego.

I remember sitting with him, and this is before he ever went to jail, got released, him saying, man, I can't feel no way about Lucci.

He take too good of care of his mom and his children.

So I don't want to see nothing happening to him.

Now, he's saying, this is we record and run.

This is not after he's been in jail.

And I've seen him say it, post that.

I've talked to Lucci and heard Lucy say, man, I don't have no problem with Thug.

I don't want no issue.

I'm just trying to make money, take care of my family.

I think at the core, we all want the same things.

But our pride and ego is a lot of times times fuel is added to a fire because of the people around us, because of beats and stuff we don't have.

And my hope for Thug and Luchi, my hope for all these young men that are coming up in Atlanta is for them to take time to be mentored by the black men and women that over the last 60 years have shaped.

and formed that community.

Because what you don't understand is a lot of time our behavior is an embarrassment to them and it loses them political equity and real equity and money.

Atlanta is Atlanta and it's a special place.

I feel like Atlanta should be treated by black people like America is to Muslims, right?

You have economic opportunity thanks to Maynard Jackson.

You have economic opportunity on 10 and international because of people like Andy Young.

You have economic opportunity because of Shirley Franklin, Bill Campbell, Keisha Lance Bottoms, Kassene Reed, Mayor Dickens.

You have economic opportunity.

Your reputation and the reputation you bring that city could possibly ruin it if you're too thuggish, you're too ruggish, you're too outlandish, too you're too bare bones minimum

and especially violence violence is not good for money violence is not good for bringing new hotels for bringing new tours bringing new conferences bringing super bowl fifa major league baseball is not good so when we as the entertainment and athlete class we have two choices we can take the low roll and do the typical and be the top of the street And we all know where that ends up, jail or early funeral.

Or we could be the youngest and the mentees of the business class and the social class and say, say hey this is how we can make the city better we could take our cues from the people on the streets organizing we can take our cues from the people who in the who in the who in those big suites organizing making it work like Andy built a dome with no public money.

He was a pension planner out of California.

So he was able to build our city and not have to overtax you, out tax you.

Keisha Lands Bottoms put a furlough on anybody building that would take the taxes up on legacy residents.

These people have made the right investments.

So we need to consult with the Keisha Lands Bottoms and Michael Thurmas.

We need to say what can we do to be better?

Because if we don't, we're going to lose a city for our people that generates so much money and so much economic opportunity.

And we don't understand that because we used nobody paying us attention.

We used to nobody caring about us.

We think that because public school teachers didn't pay attention to us like we want to, nobody else is.

Well, the students paying attention to you, and we owe those students an opportunity.

So I would say in Atlanta.

Keep rapping, keep making money, keep slamming basketballs, keep scoring touchdowns, keep getting home runs, but keep your ass in front of a YouTube or John Hope Bryant.

Keep your ass in front of when Stokely Carmichael or Kwame Antouri spoke at UGA.

Go look at those old tapes and you will understand we have a greater responsibility than just the flash of right now.

We have a greater responsibility than just the winning of right now.

Our responsibility should be to plant a tree that we'll never get to enjoy the shade of, that these two, three, four generations down will get an opportunity to say, like I can say about Alonzo Herney, who started the Atlanta Life Insurance Company, because he started a barbershop.

He had a barbershop that serviced all white men, but it was all black barbers.

He heard about the insurance game, life insurance game, which you just learned about now.

He heard about that, started selling black people life insurance.

Magic Johnson recently acquired that company.

When they asked Magic Johnson, why did you acquire the Atlanta Life Insurance Company?

He said, I saw this interview with Killer Mike.

And that's the unique thing about you as an Atlanta.

As an Atlanta, you get to live your history.

Your black history don't just happen in February.

Your black history is happening every day.

And your black ass has a responsibility.

And part of that responsibility is to rise above the streets.

You got an opportunity to rise above the streets and become somebody because because you have kids that are coming after you that look up to you, that admire you, and they need to know that opportunity is there.

Atlanta ain't been no champion city because we got no funky ass reality show programs or some been singing and dancing since 1990.

This is 124 years of excellence you're looking at.

Book T Washington.

W.B.

Du Bois had the Atlanta conferences here in what, 1904, 1905.

Alonzo Herney had been there since 1900.

So you have a social responsibility.

John Wesley Dobb was the mayor of Black Atlanta before there was a, his grandson became the mayor of all Atlanta.

We have a responsibility.

We have that responsibility in Savannah.

We have that responsibility in Macon.

We have that responsibility in Athens, Augusta, and Columbus too.

And if we don't hold true to our responsibilities, it's nobody's fault.

Like Mr.

John told me down the street from my barbershop on Edgewood Avenue.

He said, hey, they're going to come along and tell you that white folks bought this neighborhood up and Jacobi and took it for us.

And that's a goddamn lie.

He said the kids thought they were better than the stores their parents owned and bought.

And they sold it and they sold it for too cheap.

So I'm telling my athletes and my rappers out there, we have a responsibility.

And our responsibility is to learn to do good business and become businessmen and women.

You wrote a letter for Wife and Lucci.

Yes.

Why'd you do it?

What made you do that?

Because it's the right thing to do.

That brother is better on the streets with his mom and his children and people.

I remember getting a call from some very powerful people.

And they said, hey, man,

we called you and T.I.

And we telling you to call Lucy because I know you have a relationship with Drew Finley, his lawyer.

And I know you have some relationship with him.

And although it wasn't a very deep, a long relationship, Drew is my guy.

Love his lawyer.

Have grown to love and respect the hell out of Brian Steele, who defended Thug.

I consider both of them friends now.

And I talked to them more often than not.

But I got that call.

It said, hey, man, we want you to call Lucha and tell him if there's any bullshit, tell him it's time to cut the bullshit.

Tip got the call, say, hey, man, call Thug.

Tell him if there's any bullshit, it's time to cut the bullshit.

Me and Tip both did what we actually do.

We made the calls.

We both got the same reply.

I was like, man, hey, man, I don't even know what you're talking about.

You know, the big homie, little little homie talks so the little homie man i don't know what you're talking about you know and the next thing you know all hell broke loose and everybody went to jail got snatched because you guys who think that you run the streets god bless our souls because i've been one of them guys we don't run shit The black political class in the Southeast runs us with an absolute hand.

And if you get in the way of that money, if you get in the way of that port money of Savannah, if you get in the way of that peaches and cotton money or that tobacco money in the

if you get in the way of that airport money in Atlanta, they got somewhere to sit your ass down for a few years.

And if you have a reputation, they've been ruining each other's reputation in politics so long, you don't think they know how to ruin our reputation.

You understand what I'm saying?

So I just want to tell the athletes and the entertainers to take yourself more seriously than the homies around you take you because they want you to be the top of the streets.

And I'm telling you, you could be the top of the sweets if you play it right.

Wow.

You are a great peacemaker.

You can sit sit down and somebody might have been arguing for years and years and years and you can bring them together.

Your voice is soothing.

You just have a way with words and people gravitate towards you, Mike.

You think you can sit down and get Thug and Gunnar back together?

I don't know if I can get Thug and Gunner back together because I don't have that relationship with them.

But I do know a guy named Troop.

God bless the dead.

And I love Troop because Troop was a big homie to an entire neighborhood.

And before he was ever even known as a big homie to that neighborhood, he saved one of my cousins' life.

Troop was a gambler instinctively.

He gambled.

Him and a lot of athletes, he made a lot of money off athletes.

He never helped touch a field.

And what I do know is that

Troop had the respect of a lot of people and it wasn't based on violence.

It was based on the fact that he in a gambling house could get you out of that gambling house without getting your head knocked off because he could help everybody understand that, hey, man, you're going to win something, you're going to lose something yeah so next time when you win and ain't nobody gonna put no hands on you tonight you can't put your hands on them so if i had an opportunity to say anything to gunner thug i'll remind them because they so young of a guy named art art was in a in a gang i believe the gang was i refuse and he remember i remember watching the news with art sitting in a hotel room as they busted these guys and the guys were getting locked up and everybody looked at art man he a snitch he a rat and um i saw art go serve time and and then i got a message in my facebook one time from a guy named art who said i need you to help me help some young men and i remember how turned off i was about it at first like man i do you you the guy that sent in the neighborhood i remember how the big homies felt about you but i remember how many big homies had used and abused us had took advantage of paid us a dollar on the time on on on a hundred dollars when we should have been getting ten dollars on a hundred dollars and i thought about what that man must have had went through and he got out of jail and his job became helping and saving young men and i said well i owe him and I got to do something for him.

So art is do a favor for me.

I saw art change and evolve.

You know, that's what I saw.

So I would just encourage them brothers to change and evolve and show an example that we can get past whatever.

Whatever our differences are.

Whatever our differences are, we can get past them.

And if we choose to do that, see, when America lands in Afghanistan, they get the tribal leaders together.

And they say, hey, now, we need y'all to stop doing it.

So we need y'all to come up with a peace agreement.

When we go into other countries, that's the first thing that we do.

If America really wanted gang violence to end, Jeff Fort would be free.

Larry Hu would be would be free.

They would have been free 30 years ago, and they would have been organizing.

You know, if America really wanted this stuff to stop, you know, there's somebody, man, right now in this city.

I don't know if he's going to do jail time or not.

You know, his name was Big U.

They got their brother.

They got their brother locked up and they got him, you know, some pretty serious charges.

But the guy I saw,

the guy I saw wasn't bullying people.

Me and Tip said it.

We said, well, he never asked us for anything, never forced our hands.

He never asked us for anything but our presence in front of the little boys boys that he was mentoring.

He told me, Mike, you know, money will flood in when the violence is high.

And when we get violence to come down, the money dries up.

And then the money dries up, goes the police force, and then it rises back up again, then money comes back our way.

So a lot of this is just a part of a system that perpetuates it.

So I just, I'm highly suspect of our people when they get locked up.

I'm highly suspect of a system that has an incentive to keep us in slavery because incarceration is slavery.

And I would just encourage every young man out there to do what Amina Matthews and Gary Davis.

Gary Davis has the next level boys academy in Atlanta.

Amina Matthews is Jeff Ford's daughter.

And they get young men together at a table and they moderate and mediate conversations.

So I get to say to you, this is what you did to offend me.

I believe the Jewish people, there's so many Jewish in the room, let me know.

Is it Rosh Hashanah where you get together and you ask each one another's forgiveness?

And then the person has the option.

to forgive or not forgive or wait till next year.

We need to develop systems like that in our community where we can sit down down and say, man, I know ideas you're wrong.

And I'm asking that you forgive me and give each other an opportunity to give each other grace.

Because at the end of the day, you know, most of us in the Southeast are Christian of some sort, and we follow this guy named Jesus, this ultimate character.

And when you look at who was the last person that he saved, that he cared about was a prisoner, a self-confessed thief, somebody that had took something from somebody, somebody that was loaded, somebody nobody cared about.

Christ gave that person grace.

That's the person who went to and send it to heaven with him.

So for me, I would just say we need to learn to give each other grace.

We need to give ourselves some grace.

We need to be real leaders amongst our crews and tell our crews, hey, man, that beef we had, that beef gotta go.

Because nut dead.

We don't need another dead man.

Troop dead.

We don't need another dead man.

We've lost too many good people.

Trouble dead.

We don't need another dead man.

You know, so we need to figure out a way to get at a table together to discuss, to forget, to forgive, and then move on in unity because it's better for our people if we do.

That's all.

Kendrick put you on the Pimple Butterfly.

He mentioned you in Pimple Butfly.

Yeah, he did.

He did.

I mean, because at the time, that was Kendrick's biggest.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

I appreciate him.

I just, man, man, thank you, K.

I appreciate you.

You can, you know, from a stylistic standpoint, you can overtly hear the Dungeon Family influence on him, and it's just amazing.

And I'm glad somebody was paying attention to DF like I was.

I'm glad to have been mentioned by him.

But boy, I could use a feature.

So if you're at home thinking about it, KDI, man,

I love getting, you know, shit.

And that's for his whole crew.

Al, you know,

schoolboy, just amazing.

What TD is was able to do was amazing.

But K-Dot, I would,

I love it.

You work with Cube, work with Hove.

I mean, what, what, because, man, I don't think.

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oh man

oh man he ain't lost a step the the the the oh man he he the one pimmy man ice cube and scarface i'm a direct student of them i'm a just you've been hearing them on music i'm a direct but that boy o'shay jackson senior man oh man that man don't play everything he has become You know, I remember reading the Rolling Stone article where his parents made him go to drafting school in Arizona.

They were like, like, hey, rap shit, cool, but you're going to have an education.

He's always been proud to be brilliant.

He's always used his imagination to give you a world that you might not have known, but he brought you into.

Whether it was NWA or whether later America's Most Wanted, death certificate, Kill at Will.

He's always taken you beyond where you thought he could go.

When he showed you you could laugh at movies like Friday, one, two, when he gave you new, when he popped up as an actor.

Cube has shown me since I was 12 years old that all possibilities are possible.

When you see Killer Mike going on now, a television show, you know, the lowdown, when you see me next to Ethan Hawk, I'm unafraid.

I'm informed by Ethan on this is how you pull it off, but I'm unafraid because I saw my idol do it.

I saw Cube do it.

So I know I can do it.

I'm unafraid to do business with people who don't look like me because I've seen Cube do it with priority records.

I've seen him do it with Hollywood.

I've seen him be a black man.

Stand up.

I've seen him be married to one black woman create these black children.

I just shot a scene with O.

Shea Jackson Jr.

Just did a scene in a movie with him.

And just, I said, first of all, trippy, you look so much like your dad.

You know what I'm saying?

I scraped the f up.

I'm going to tell you.

But I thanked him for sharing his family, for sharing his dad with the world.

Because your dad has been an uncle, has been a father-like figure, has been a big homie to so many of us.

So, man, when it comes to Ice Cube, I just want to tell kids: hip-hop's finally 51, 52 years old.

It's finally old enough for you to go back on a nostalgia run.

Make him a part of that nostalgia run.

Make Ice Cube a part of that.

Make

E40 a part of that.

Make Scarface, who is my personal GOAT, a part of that.

You know, the ghetto boys,

you have to know where you're being to know where you're going.

Or else is somebody to resell you something you already did and give it a new name.

You know, Rock and Roll did not look like Elvis, and there ain't no disrespect to Elvis, but he wasn't no Chuck Berry or Lil Richard.

Was it?

Ho.

Ho.

That's my guy, man.

I mean, we hear this.

He might be coming out with music.

I talked, talked to Bleak said, man, that ain't where his head is right now.

he ain't in that mindset he's a he's a businessman yeah yeah yeah so that's where that's where his head's at yeah you think hove gonna gonna gonna give us something i don't know i think when you're an artist i think you never stop Like I walk around the house just mumbling to myself.

You know what I'm saying?

So I don't think he ever stops.

I think Hove got some raps in there.

He never stops.

And as an artist, he sees the world in an artful way.

Just me and me channeling that in a different way.

Like I look at no ID.

No ID's been taking more pictures and making more beats now.

You know what I'm saying?

And there's an art to business.

Like I remember, so we got Mayor Bill Campbell in Atlanta,

black mayor from the Carolinas, but he understands the Atlanta way.

The Atlanta way is you create opportunity on the private and equity side for black business people who are going to do the job right.

Correct.

What other city would have told Magic Johnson,

who had been involved in scandal, you know, with acquiring HIV, but then becoming a staunch advocate for everyone being tested and all,

had been, you know, basically treated badly toward his last days in the NBA by all the players and stuff, how they handle him.

And And then Smagic at some point had to figure out what to do and how to do it.

And he figured out business brought him to some degree the same satisfaction of athleticism.

Exactly.

So in my mind, Jay-Z has made business his art

in some capacity.

So he wants to master that in the same way he mastered bars and flows.

I saw Magic Johnson come to Atlanta and I saw Starbucks want to get in Southwest Atlanta and they did it with Magic Johnson.

I saw TGI Fridays get in Southwest Atlanta with Magic Johnson.

AMC Theaters get in there with Magic Johnson.

I saw Magic Maggie Johnson completely become a businessman by way of doing business in Atlanta and then coming back 30 years later now to own the Atlanta Life Insurance Company.

So for me, I cheer for Hove in that capacity because it's not only Hove, Nas has learned how to become a business person.

Absolutely.

Big Boy has learned how to become a business person.

My man, Chameleonaire, has learned how to become a business person.

And there's nothing wrong with that because when we lose that element, when we lose these people, what we're losing is people who give other people like us an opportunity.

So I cheer for Hove.

I would love another Hove album, but if you never give me another one, if you just give me some guest verses,

you know, we can live, but I would like to see him succeed more, not less.

And I would like to see Kareem succeed.

And I would like to see Dame succeed and DNY.

You know what I mean?

I'd like to see Dallas Austin and Jermaine Dupree, Brian Michael Cox

keep succeeding because if we don't have these mega men of sorts, then you never get people like me.

I'm a small business person, you know, but but I'm invigorated when I see my brothers win huge and big.

And I know this isn't small business to some people, but it's small business compared to the billionaires.

I think I have a $100 million company here.

But would I dare to think like that if it hadn't been for Jay?

Would I dare to think like that if it hadn't been for brands like Outcast?

Would I dare to think like that if it wouldn't have been for people like Yeezy taking over the world?

Would I dare to think?

So I'm inspired by that.

Because as I have grown into a stronger, more competent rapper, I've also learned to do better business.

And, you know, my businesses are small businesses, but they're ones I believe in and they're brands I see growing.

I want this to be a hundred million dollar company.

I want Bankhead Seafood to be a destination point.

I want you to land in Atlanta, get off at Bankhead Highway, stop by the Blue Flame, then come to Bankhead Seafood.

You know, come see us, man.

T.I.

Yeah, that's my friend.

You've known T.I.

for a minute.

That's my brother, man.

You in business together?

I mean, hey,

the South King, I mean, he called himself the king of the South, and I can't say that I disagree with him.

He is, but when when you talk Atlanta rappers, you got to mention him somewhere

in some shape, form, or fashion.

Yeah, absolutely.

How did you and T.I.

meet?

Man, KP, who's a Dundee family member, and DJ Toon,

they found the kid and they developed him.

I mean, when I remember walking in the gentleman's club, seeing the kids with Cartier frames, he used to have a gold toothpick on, and I never understood how his hat stayed on his head.

Yeah.

He used to wear it like that.

He would like one of them old men in the South who owned the gas station.

They might call Plea.

You know, they oversee Plea, man.

But he was such a player he was such a player man at a young age he was i'm five years old and tip so if he's 19 i'm what 24 but such a player man so confident you know i mean he was he he reminded me of of my cousin jimmy you know my cousin man and i and i just i i knew i rap though so i never was intimidated so when we would get in rooms together people asked us to do versus rap whatever i was i was um

It's like watching, it's like watching on the football field, your boy get it off.

Oh, man, your boy might play defense, but he got it off.

Oh man, I got to get it off.

I got to get it off.

Now I just seen my dog do it.

And that's how I feel around him and in drop particular.

Like when you, when you talk about the West Side, man, you're talking about from Patterson Flows who people are emulating.

You're talking about Tip, you're talking about Droke in terms of just lyricism, man.

So

I really am grateful to be his brother and his friend in business, in music, and beyond, because I truly love him as though we blood.

You dropped your debut album the same day 50 dropped Get Richard Die Trying.

Phil whooped everybody ass that year, man.

He was an ass whooping.

I got a lot of love for Philip, man.

I tell him every time I see him, he let me,

when I was on the down, Phil, I think I made maybe 10 grand for a show.

I had to go to Europe.

Yale was always kind to me.

Shouts out to Buck and Banks, too.

But Phil let me open for a show, and I made some money.

I really appreciate him because I really need it at the time.

But let me tell you something, boy.

You kicked everybody's ass.

Oh, man, you whooped so much ass.

I just remember looking at the billboard charts just looking at myself fall, like, damn.

And every week you sell a quarter million.

Boom, boom, boom.

But what I really love about it is I still went gold.

Yeah.

And I was proud for that, but I learned to don't confine yourself to gold and platinum.

Don't confine yourself to what's good enough.

Because that's what I was going to ask you.

I was going to ask you, why didn't you get discouraged?

You could, like, man, man,

this man did came out.

He jumped out of the box, did 10 million, he diamond.

And here I am.

I'm gold, which is good.

Yeah.

But that ain't

because because you got drafted 192 in the seventh round yep and you're in the hall of fame yep and you're you got a ring yep yeah that's why because you don't because all i need is the opportunity right you went to savannah state correct you didn't go to uga nope you know you didn't go to georgia tech right you went to savanna state you go to balma you know tennessee you went you went to savannah so in other words you're like you know what i'm not judging my success by somebody else's i'm michael i'm here I'm here, baby.

Y'all let me in.

I'm going to stick around for a while.

See, when I asked God

for a long career, I didn't understand the perils that came with it.

I just know I asked Lord, I said, I want a career like Bun B.

I want a career like Scarface.

But I didn't understand that a 20-year career, you're going to take some ups, you're going to take some downs.

You know, I didn't understand that the highs and lows.

You're going to learn as much in the valley as you enjoy seeing the peak.

So I'm thankful.

I'm thankful to still be in a room and have 50 Cent acknowledge me and acknowledge him and me again.

Say, hey, man, thank you for that show years ago.

You don't know it kept me going another couple months.

I really appreciate that.

I'm thankful to watch you because his first attempts at doing film and television didn't just take right off, but I saw him not quit.

So I learned from him, you know, as much.

And I'm just a student, man, and I'm an appreciator of, you know, even people who I might not agree with, might not agree with me.

I still appreciate you.

I still learn from you.

But fifth, man, that year, I just got to say,

you whooped ass.

You whooped ass, bubble.

And shouts out to you, Dre and M, you know?

Independent.

Oh, and I got to give shouts to the game, too.

Oh, yeah.

I forgot to mention that game was early in my career, man.

He was on the West Coast.

Game's one of the best rappers ever.

And he,

I never forget, they had Vibe Magazine

had us do like a call one of your homeboys who wrap up and tell him you just got a flat tire.

You an hour crop tire.

I said, Gang, man, I'm out here on such and such.

I'm in a, I forgot what street neighborhood I said, I'm in.

I said, man, I'm fucked up.

He was on his way to buy Bentley.

He told whoever, he said, hey, man, stop the car.

He said, kills, don't get out.

Car, man, turn around for the come get you now.

I was like, no, no, we just joking.

We just joking.

But I got to appreciate the game, too.

It was as a member of Gene Unit.

He was definitely a friend and just one of the Raws.

Gene Unit just had a Trump type crew name.

So shouts out.

Major versus Independent.

Yeah.

I hear Stephanie Mill, I think she's going on tour with Patty LaBelle, Shaka Khan.

Somebody saw that show.

They told me about it.

And they asked Stephanie Mills and she said, she said,

if I know, if I knew then what I know now, I would do it independently.

She said, because basically a major record company, they're marketing.

But I know what I'm worth.

I know what I want to sell.

If I sell this, many, I get that.

If I sell that, many, I get this.

Break down.

You've been at this thing three decades.

Yeah.

Break it down.

Major record label, independent.

Pros, cons for both.

Well, I mean, a major label, man, you're in the major record.

You got an engine.

Yep, and they really believe in you going a major way.

But, man, I'm in the NFL.

I don't give a damn if I'm playing for the New York Times or the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

I'm in the NFL.

I'm in the NFL.

I'm in the NFL, baby.

So I have had a better relationship.

Working as an indie with

a smaller indie that's backed by a major and Loma Vista, being being able to work with Loma Vista who's parented by Concorde, now that I understand fully who I am, now that me and Will have been through the pure independence of SMC, now that I've turned down a major in Virgin with Jermaine was the head over there and I've been on a major with Columbia and Electoral before, I think I found a middle ground in where I'm independent enough.

to know when I need some major help.

Right.

You know, okay, you know, so, and I think that that really is it because if you can go through the roof, you're going to need some extra fuel on that fire, and that's what they help you, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But Andy Young said to me, I don't understand why you young guys don't just buy a house you can afford, get a couple of nice cars, and I know you like nice cars, and just be satisfied.

Beyond major independent, one of the best things you could do, and I've encouraged a lot of artists and athletes to do this, is find you a house in the South.

Find you a house in Atlanta, Savannah, Nashville, Chattanooga, Charlotte.

Find you a house.

Send your mama, your baby mama, whoever there, and buy it outright.

And you don't need every car get you a couple you want something fancy get you a couple german cars or whatever get you a pickup truck get you one german car and just stack everything for the first five four or five years put your money in the s p 500s don't try to get too somebody you know that right when you grew up like we grew up yeah man all we dreamed that's my car yeah i dreamed of having that when i saw uh uh uh

Miami Vice.

Yes.

When I saw them wearing Versace and I saw Rolex and Ferrari.

Yeah.

Man, I, but we gotta have what you gotta do.

What?

Get you one Rolex.

You don't need four.

So your boy got the Ferrari.

You got the Porsche.

You get what you gotta do.

Hey, man, I can draw your Rari today.

Yeah, let me hold that Porsche, dog.

Don't nobody know.

The girls at the club ain't gonna know.

So I'm just here to say, man, I'm here to say, man, you gotta stay tough, nigga, tight, man.

The most successful drug dealers I saw live like working dudes.

The most successful ones I saw, the ones that managed to escape the game.

Like, nigga, you look at, you look out in my neighborhood, man,

a guy like my man Roy.

If you didn't catch Roy before, seven o'clock, after seven you wouldn't catch him because he had a job

never went to jail came pinned out ended up doing well for himself got out the guy he needs but man

he lived like a regular guy if you manage living modestly for long enough man you're gonna have an abundance so again if you and your homeboys if you 18 right you ain't got a bunch but you and three of your cousins y'all go to trade school yeah one learn carpentry one learn flooring one learn everybody learn something go buy y'all a quadriplex together yeah live in one or two of them and rent the other two out.

And then repeat process till you buy another and another and another.

Then you can do it.

Instead of saying, well, I got a car.

Well, man, shit, I bought a Chevelle.

My brother bought, what's the name?

If I want to drive with cousins, I just get my brother cousin and drive.

We have to start doing these little tricks because we talk about immigrants doing these tricks.

Now, your grandparents did these tricks.

My big mama and big daddy lived on land.

My big daddy's...

Sister T-Suite lived at the top of their land in a house.

In the next five years, I'm going to have a compound.

What me and all my sisters got housed on the same compound?

We're not going to sell the houses we got.

Those houses are going to go to my nieces, my nephews, somebody, they're going to be in a trust so they can't wake up and do no stupid shit like selling one day.

But that's what you do.

That's what you do.

Repeat what made people in your family successful.

Everybody got that one conservative bad auntie or uncle who do it the right way.

So that's who we need to start emulating.

I love Miami Vice, but that wasn't Don Johnson Farrar.

He just got the drive.

Act, it seems to be you've been bit by the acting bug now.

Yeah.

I mean, I saw your, I mean, I saw

my favorite show, Ozark.

Yeah, man.

Oh, man.

Man.

Oh, man.

Man, and you're in this movie now with the series with Ether the Hall.

Yeah.

When did you get the acting bug?

I mean, I've been acting out my whole life.

You know, I've got acting my way out a few tickets.

I acting like I wanted that woman.

How was she pulling that pistol off me on me?

It's just it's just creative, and it's just my imagination.

I remember acting like Miami Vice scenes when I was a kid.

Right.

Laura Lenny, I met on the plane.

She used to be on a show called the Big C, where she put a woman who was dying of cancer.

And what her last days were like, and it was a very uplifting show.

I met her.

My wife says, I do this all the time.

I introduce myself to people on the plane.

I learned that when I flew to Daytona when I was a kid.

You sit down and you say, you know, and it used to be in the plane.

You didn't put your luggage right above you.

You put your luggage across me so you can see your luggage.

So

I still do that.

And then I introduced myself hey i'm michael i was i was like hey lord i watch your show my wife loves it and whatnot and um we just kept in contact so she's always been an encourager of omar dorsey friend of mine has always been an encourager of ethan when i met him on bill maher show um called me out to do good lord bird just a big part but he saw something in me that i wanted y'all i wanted to kind of act you know you know you figure out what else you knew because as an artist you're compelled to do other things but um sterling who wrote the show who wrote wrote Reservation Dogs, and just is a brilliant writer.

And

he and Ethan thought I might be good for this part.

Reservoir Dogs.

Yeah.

No, not Reservoir.

Reservation Dogs.

Reservation Dogs.

Reservation Dogs was a series about kids who were growing up on Indian Reservations.

Okay.

Yeah, Reservoir Dogs was written by Tarantino, who's a favorite director of mine.

Oh, Hateful Lady is one of the most amazing movies ever.

But they had collaborated on an episode and they thought I'd be perfect to play this character.

And I was nervous as shit.

Ethan gave me one of them pep talks: like, hey, man, you're made for this, buddy.

Right.

You know, he gave me one of your white friend pep talks.

Hey, buddy,

what do you mean?

You're made for this.

And

I tried out and I got the part.

And then I got called back, saying, You're going to be in a few more episodes.

And the next thing you know, oh shit, I'm really acting.

And

acting is about using the live imagination to tell a grander truth.

And

I think I'm kind of made for that.

You've been at this speaking about politics and race and understanding.

And I think

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Yeah, yeah.

He said, if you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket.

He won't know.

He said, if you give him somebody to look down on, he'll empty his pockets for you.

There you go.

At the time that Dr.

King was in Mississippi trying to help workers organize, the Klan was at its height trying to fight against blacks having the ability to organize and be on jobs with them.

The lowest paid white man in the country was in Mississippi.

When me and Bernie Sanders went to Alabama a few years ago to try to help them unionizing Amazon, you know, you can just know Alabama for as far as it could be, it isn't as far as it could be because there's something that's holding it down.

I just want to say to my brothers and sisters in the South or the working class, it doesn't matter to me which color you are.

It doesn't matter to me who you're like in terms of a national figure speaking on social issues.

I need you to understand that the same people that invented the word invented the word cracker.

And they meant for you and crackers to stay on the bottom.

Because there's a rich class in the South.

There's what they call a planter class, a master class of people.

And they own Georgia and Tennessee and the Carolinas, Florida, the Mississippi, all up through Arkansas.

They own it.

And they ruled it with an iron fist.

And if we don't start to understand, more like Fred Hampton understood, that we truly need a rainbow coalition of workers pushing forward in this country on each other's behalf.

Then we're going to stay separate, we're going to stay unequal, and we're all going to stay without.

How have they been able to convince

one group

to vote against their own best interests

and to look down on the other group

when

you're in the same boat?

Well, the oligarchs have always done it.

Because

you get the thing that a trailer park is different from the projects.

No, it's both set aside for people who are poor.

That's it.

We have to understand that at some point, race is just an economic tool used under this particular system of capitalism to keep us in fighting so that we never get greater gains.

I believe there's a more compassionate version of capitalism.

I believe that there's a version where free trade and labor will work, where a working man can grow his own food and sell his food to his neighbor, and that's not outlawed by the state.

Again, I believe in being able to brew your own whiskey.

I don't think you should have to have a tax stamp on your whiskey.

So when I hear about somebody like Popeye Sutton, you know, who's a white man, who was a bootlegger up in Tennessee, rather than serve federal time, he killed himself.

He said, I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to bow to these oligarchs.

He becomes a hero of mine.

And the same way that John Brown's a hero of mine.

So, for me, I think that we need to look outside of our own culture, our own race, our own class for other people that we admire and that we agree with, too.

Because that way, you know, the possibility of better is in other people as well.

And you start to form union, you start to form collaboration, you start to form coalitions in which the best interests of everyone is served.

And I believe that in particular, in the working class in the South, that we have a duty and an obligation to just like we worked in fields, to have an opportunity to work other things that will work better for all of us.

Did you always feel like this?

Because you caught a lot of criticism because you went and sat down with Deal.

No, no, I sat down with Kemp, Governor Kim.

Governor Kimp.

And you got a lot of, like, man, Mike, why are you sitting down with him?

Because

he's my governor.

And you say, look, I'm going to sit down with the man because it might be an opportunity before I can help people that look like me.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And when you see when he passed the arm, when he

reinstated the Hope Scholarship, he added trades to it too.

The Hope Scholarship used to exclusively be for intellectuals.

You know, if you're going to college, you're going to Spanish State, going to UGA, where you go to Hope Scholarship.

But our boys and girls who wanted to go to trade school were left out.

He added that.

Well, I was an asshole about trades.

I was picking them, poking them.

He put me in touch with the head of trades.

I talked to him, but I still was calling him back.

Governor, I think we need to do this.

So if you are politically unengaged, you are a fool.

I'm going to just tell you that.

No matter who wins,

no matter who I campaign for, the day after, I'm going to congratulate the winner and say, okay, well, we're going to do to make Georgia a better state.

How can I help you?

So no matter who ends up being governor, if it's Keisha Lance Bottoms, if it's Michael Thurman, if it's one of the people who won from the other side, I have to.

I'm required to, like my grandmother said, you do this because it's what you're supposed to do.

You know, you're supposed to have a political voice.

Whether it's your city council whether it's your county commissioner whether it's your mayor whether it's your governor your congressman or senators you better make sure you do that because what you don't want to be is without voice so a lot of people that criticize me they aren't even georgians if you're on a georgian i'm not even you don't even worry about what

yes what the fuck are your votes you thinking about you a minority where you live at right yeah you listen to no goddamn minority we make up 35 of the state in georgia we make over um just under 50 in atlanta what am i gonna listen to you for not gonna listen you don't even know what it feels like to be the majority you don't know what it is to see a black city council You don't know what it is to only have known black marriage.

You got so goddamn happy about Obama, you could appeased yourself.

I ain't never known nothing but black leadership.

That's it.

My God, come on.

And then good luck trying to get another with it.

Yeah, that's all I'm saying.

So I don't have the capacity to tolerate some of the shit y'all be talking because y'all don't know what y'all talking about.

Again, all my heroes and enemies look like me.

All my heroes and enemies, what I was growing up, look like me.

I grew up in an all-black neighborhood.

My neighborhood wasn't a form of Fair Street Bottom or Buttermilk Bottom, which were real neighborhoods in Atlanta.

I didn't grow up in the bluff.

I ended up buying apartments in the bluff as the bluff is re, and the bluff is only two miles from the dome.

As the bluff is changing, I'm a part of that change.

I grew up in the Carrier Heights.

I grew up in these, where these working class people, 900 square foot houses, grew up white with the Russells, who were the biggest black developers in the nation at the time.

That's who I grew up with.

I grew up with the people that built the Fulon County Stadium in the dome.

So nigga, you can't tell me nothing impossible because I could ride my bike three streets back and see a black house with an indoor pool, tennis court, and basketball court.

So the fuck you gonna tell me?

Nigga, you talking about your imagination.

I'm talking about some shit I've seen for real.

You know what I mean?

So I I don't listen to y'all Negroes.

Just know when you write that kind of shit, I giggle.

I roll over in my big old bed, my $11,000 bed.

I get up, you know, that my wife got for $4,000.

You know what I'm saying?

I wake up and I yawn.

I look at y'all, nigga, like man, y'all nigga don't know what y'all talking about.

Because you ain't never seen nothing.

That's why you tend to only think it's an impossibility.

It can't possibly happen.

Because you've never seen it.

Your grandfather didn't tell you about Jack Johnson.

So you didn't know you could whoop no ass.

You didn't know who Tiger Flowers is.

Tiger Flowers, middleweight champion.

They call him the Deacon Out of Georgia on the mansion right there in Dixie Hills.

So when you walk by the fire station, you get to read about this man.

You never stop to read, nigga.

You don't know what the f ⁇ you talking about.

I read The Wretched Nerf.

I read Franz Fanon.

I read all these books, but I also read Wash a White Guy Always Have All the Fun.

I've also read some Thomas Soul.

I also read some Walt T.

Williams.

So I read enough to take a look from here, to take a look from there, and to form my own.

If you only read and are instructed by how you read, you're just a clone.

You know, I read that nigga book.

He read that book.

He ain't do nothing but quote a bunch of other people to tell me what I can't do.

Shut up.

I'm out here doing it.

You professor.

Professor, what they say.

They say those who can do, do...

Those who can do, those that can't teach.

And those who can't and don't know how to teach teachers.

Talk to me about DEI.

I've heard a lot of...

Diversity, equity, inclusion.

Yes.

I mean, I think if you can get it, get it.

But if you can't, no, just understand you can't and make away.

I think DEI is best served when politically we put the pressure.

There are federal grants and loans that should be given to you that aren't given to you right now.

That don't have nothing to do with just overt DI programs.

Because let's say, DEI programs work for white women too.

They work for immigrant populations.

They got a chance to jump ahead of you and things of that nature.

But my thing is, whatever you can make work, work.

So if DEI is working, work it.

But if it ain't working, you got to find something else to work.

But work it.

What works better than DEI is having politicians that understand the need for it.

George Wallace was a white politician.

George Wallace was a van who essentially said segregation down forever.

George Wallace got shot and then getting shot, he saw Jesus.

He must have saw Jesus was black.

Because after that, his administration was blacker than any other administration before or after.

So you didn't have to tell him about D.I.

because he all of a sudden understood once being shot, oh shit, I need to change my ways and models and thinking.

Black people coming out of slavery were the most skilled workforce in this nation.

And they understood capitalism.

They understood business in a way that other people didn't.

If they didn't, they they wouldn't have been able to build things like the land life insurance company.

If they didn't, the blacksmith wouldn't have been able to say to the master, well, boss, he won't call a master no more.

Well, boss, you know, I can do the work, but it's going to cost you now.

We understood capitalism when we were still slaves.

So I used to wonder how when they would say, well, how does a family buy their freedom?

Well, they rented their own self out on Fridays.

I mean, on Sundays, because every landowner wasn't a slave owner.

You had some people that were just middle class, were working class, that were poor class.

They didn't have the ability to have an extra seven hands.

So those people would then say, hey,

if your guy lets you work for me on Sunday, I need you on Sunday.

You go negotiate a price, then you pay your master 60%.

You keep it 40%.

You save until you bought your own freedom, bought your wife, freedom, bought your children, freedom.

So it's not like you don't understand capitalism, but the question becomes, how are you going to make it work for you?

How are you going to make sure that the gas stations you go to are owned by you?

How are you going to make sure that the dollar is turning in your community beyond your church?

You've done it before.

I don't have all the answers, but I do know that the guy who does my HVAC lives in the same neighborhood as T.I.

You know, I do know that.

I know he makes as much money doing HVAC as we make singing and goddamn dancing.

And we have the opportunity to use our minds in this country to advance ourselves in a way that other black folks globally are not.

And we should take advantage of that.

And now the companies that don't want to play fair, punish their ass.

Punish their ass by not supporting them.

I like what Jamal Bryan has done, right or wrong, showing Target, hey man, I can knock you down a quarter.

I like what T.I.

did with Gucci.

When T.I.

said, hey, man, we're going to knock Gucci down a quarter.

They worked.

Now, Gucci was smart.

They went and got Simone Sanders.

They said, hey, Simone, we need you.

We need you in that pretty haircut.

And your mom, we give you some purse.

We give you some money.

But T.I.

showed their ass.

He bumped their ass down.

And they had to haze.

They had to tighten up.

So it ain't nothing wrong with showing companies they have to tighten up.

You know, ain't nothing wrong with that.

Freedom of speech.

We saw what happened with Jimmy Kimmel.

I guess they didn't agree with the marks that he made about Charlie Kirk, who tragically lost his life at a rally in Utah.

And they took him off the air.

Yeah.

I think one of the biggest Sinclair said, we're not going to put him back on, but ABC Disney has reinstated him.

Yeah, he should be.

Where are we headed with this, Mike?

A scary place.

Freedom of speech.

If you don't believe in freedoms of speech for those you vehemently disagree with, you don't believe in freedom of speech.

And what scared me most about freedom of speech, I think Noam Chomsky said that, but what scares me most about freedom of speech is everybody only want it for their side.

Yes.

And I'm pro-freedom of speech for all sides.

Eric Nielsen wrote a book called Wrath on Trial.

I wrote the foreword for it.

But we're figuring out maybe putting together a tour of some sort because we have to get back in this country to having hard conversations with one another.

And that requires freedom of speech.

It requires that

I'm going to listen to something I may not like that will make me uncomfortable.

But in listening to that, I'm going to learn or impart a wisdom or that goes both ways.

We have reciprocity, but that's what makes this republic different.

That's what makes this republic great.

Hey, man, I got no problems against Europe.

They got some cool museums and old shit over there.

They got some nice food a couple places, but I do not like hate speech laws in the United United Kingdom.

Like, how you gonna give me a hate speech law?

You ain't gave me my artifacts from Africa back yet.

Shit, you're gonna make it so I can't even say I want my shit back.

You know what I mean?

So I would warn Americans against any restrictions on your First Amendment.

Because that restricts you from protesting police officers.

That restricts you from

congregating religiously.

It restricts you from policing and and talking down on politicians you may not agree with.

It restricts you from public assembly.

So I'm going to just say, I'd rather have the uncomfortable conversations where we disagree.

That's it.

That's it.

James Baldwin.

Say, we can disagree and still love you as long as your disagreement isn't draped in my lack of humanity.

Come on, man.

Come on, man.

That's him.

That's him, man.

James, man, that man.

I mean, some of the stuff that he said, you, and like, you know, when our grandparents used to talk to us, Mike,

I didn't know at the time what they were actually saying.

It was when I got much older, because they talked in parables.

They talked in phrases.

They didn't come out and say, don't do this.

You know, my grandfather used to say, boy, don't make me chew this food twice.

I'm like, you're going to chew it more than that.

But he was saying, don't make him repeat himself.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Because they wanted to raise.

thinkers.

They wanted you to understand that this thing that resting between your ears is a tool for you to use.

Not be used by it, don't be used by anxiety, don't be used by pressure, don't be used by overthinking.

Use this tool to look at the problem and solve the problem.

And once I've solved the problem once, I don't need to keep revisiting the problem, trying to save it twice.

My grandfather, man, I'm talking about, he would tell me, well, what is they learning you in school?

And what I realized is over the last 60 years, public schools hadn't learned us as much as we should be learning because they're not truly trying to raise thinkers.

They're trying to raise people that go along with the program.

You got people now that tell you what you can and can't say, and they've never read the Bill of Rights.

They've never read the United States Constitution.

It's a beautiful document in its aspiration.

Doesn't mean we've always lived up to it, but in its aspiration.

You know,

there's a brother man,

a brother named Chad.

I like the brother.

He's a plumber.

I like him because he's a tradesman, but he's an intellectual.

But this brother's been going on a terrible rant about Dr.

King.

He's probably going to put this up on the clip, and I hope he do.

But I'm saying it's unfair.

I support your right to say anything you want to say.

He's very much against Marxism and communism, but he's taking some low blows to me in talking about Dr.

King.

And I say, I wonder who's funding my brother.

He's a black man.

And the reason I say that is, because you can talk about Dr.

King being an alleged perverter, having orgies, things of that nature, having multiple women.

But we aren't talking about our founding fathers as sex traffickers.

Benjamin Franklin had a 13-year-old girl, black girl.

Oh, they were in love.

No, they weren't.

He was sexually assaulting that girl.

She was his property.

George Washington owned 300 human beings, and I'm sure took advantage.

I sit here right now as a product of Crawford Long's family.

Someone in Crawford Long's family had sex with someone that was owned or enslaved, which led to the Long family out of North Georgia, Michael Render's mother's maternal family, and I'm related to Crawford Long.

the man who invented anesthesia for the battlefield for the Civil War.

I'm here because of a rape.

And if you're going to criticize Dr.

King and you don't find time to criticize the so many white men that founded our country, then that tells me that somebody's paying you to do what you're doing.

And although I support your ability,

I support your rights to do that, I'm saying that we got to play the game fair, Bubba.

We got to play the game fair.

And we got to say oftentimes great men fall short of the glory of God, but that don't mean they can't be redeemed.

And that does not mean that dream isn't a redeeming thing.

Because I didn't know Dr.

King, but I knew everybody who knew him.

I knew Hosea Williams.

I know Andy Young.

I knew Joseph Lowry.

I knew James Orange.

And what I know is these men are stoic in terms of the way they live their life.

And as young men, who might, who knows how wild they may have been, but I know that as they've got older, the wisdom that they gave us as young men and the wisdom that they gave us now is priceless.

So as a man, I'm going to fall short.

I'm going to make some mistakes.

My wife might show up at 357 one day, but

I guarantee you after I talked to my auntie Deborah,

I tightened up.

You know what I mean?

So I just want to encourage us that while we are defending that First Amendment, let's make sure that we're looking at the rules fair for everyone.

What are some of the changes?

I'm going to make you president.

You president of the United States.

I'm going to give you, you got four years.

Yeah.

What you going to do?

Create a reparations plan that's going to get African Americans proper education and trades and intellectual education.

It's going to get African Americans proper financial education.

It's going to give them land grants and the ability to own the land of their ancestors along, particularly in the Southeast.

54% of African Americans live in the Southeast.

I think that 54% of the investment should be there.

I think that there should be a heavy investment in terms of making sure that that class of people is brought up because when the African-American economy and the community is doing better, this whole country does better.

I would make a pathway toward legal citizenship easier.

I would create bilingual classes very early so that we can communicate to one another.

I would return trades to high schools on the federal level.

I would support that.

I would guarantee trades programs in high schools.

I also would guarantee

minority businesses,

construction, like the Ali construction company down in Georgia, that they can get more federal grants.

The construction company I'm telling you about now is the ones who build all the furniture in the Delta VIP lounge, black company.

I would make sure that we have a vested interest.

I would make sure that public school returns to the greatness of what public schools was in the 30s, 40s, and 50s, meaning physical education is important, artistic and music education is important, and your reading, writing, and arithmetic is important.

I try to say, why were we so effective in public education, even all through college in the 50s and 60s, and where did we fill off from?

I would take debt out of college.

I would forgive all college debt.

I would make state schools more open to state kids again.

I would start to support older people in a way that they would be engaged.

I would make the retirement age earlier instead of later.

And those that

didn't have the option of retiring, I would give them some type of government-subsidized job where they can help, whether it be voting booths or librarians or something.

So, those are some of the things I would do because I believe when you have a society that can take care of themselves, that can make money and turn a dollar, it creates a more effective society than not.

Wow,

upbringing:

your mom had you at 16.

Yeah, you were raised by your grandparents.

Yeah, what is

talk to me about this?

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Women raising black boys.

Man, I'm going to say it take a village.

I like the village concept.

That's how it was when we were.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like everybody was repaired.

Got the Miss Ophelia myself.

The lady down the street can be.

If you back it up,

I'm going to tell you.

I'm going to tell you your grandma, man.

Miss Ophelia.

Hey, boy.

Boy.

Yes, ma'am.

Where you going?

The candy lady.

Your mama know where you're going?

Yes, ma'am.

Hold on.

She'll go to another room and call.

Betty.

Betty,

this boy, you had a fat one.

He going down there to the candy.

Did you tell him he can eat some candy?

Okay.

Well, I guess you can go on there.

And while you're gone, make sure you bring me.

It's just like,

like, damn, it's okay.

You could have just asked me to bring you.

You know what I mean?

So it's like, I believe in the village concept.

I remember, man, Denise getting on me so bad one time.

And she said, I'm sorry.

You know, Denise is my mommy.

I said, she said, I'm sorry I got to be so hard on you, but you're the only son I got.

I don't get a second chance.

You know, my grandmother told Shay one time,

she said, he was so bad.

She said, I hate I had to beat him so much, but he was so bad.

And what she really means is I was adventurous, I was curious, I was terrible at times, you know, but she knew that if I didn't impart a certain amount of discipline on this boy, he was going to go wild.

Yes.

My grandfather only spanked me once.

Shit, he had me cry.

And my grandfather.

It shocked you because you didn't expect it.

I didn't expect it from my guy, man.

But he was so loving.

And I realized him not having a father, having to drop out of school in the third grade, having to work in a sawmill at nine years old to support his sisters and his mother.

He understood how to be a father because he had been robbed of that opportunity himself.

So he was the best to me and my sisters.

I come in the bedroom sometimes, and because my grandfather was, you know, real yellow with the curly hair, my sister had borets in his hair.

He's just sitting there on the bed looking at the braves gang, letting them do whatever they want to do.

Because he understood that this is bigger than how I'm perceived.

And you know, anybody.

So when it came time for me to have to put on my sister prom dress while my grandma hemmed it, I'm standing there, my buddies looking at the window, laughing at me.

I'm like, nigga, I don't care.

This is my sister.

I got to do this for my little sister.

So for me,

I take the village village approach, which means mothers.

You're going to have to allow your young man, if his father is absent via you all don't get along or God forbid, death or prison or something.

You're going to have to allow the other men that you trust.

Not just a guy you're dating and you might know, but the guy who's dating you, who says, I'm in with you now, I'm in with you to raise this boy.

You're going to have to give him.

You're going to have to give him some authority over that boy.

If he has an uncle, your brother, you're going to have to get some authority over that boy.

You're going to have to get that boy in things like Next Level Boys Academy that Garris Davis runs, like Bear Strong, which Bear from the neighborhood down there in College Park, you're going to have to give up because mothering is an authoritarian.

It's an absolute.

I'm your mother.

I made the sacrifice for you.

God sent you through me.

And we're indebted to that until we not.

And then we get wild.

I had a call from a friend of mine yesterday.

It's like, Mike, I just don't know what to do.

These boys, they were in regular school, and I took them out.

He in alternate school.

Now I found out he not going to alternate school.

And she said, I'm fearing the the words now, Jay.

I'm just going to have to put him out.

I said, well, let's first sit down.

Let's have a talk with him.

Let's get in with Gary Davis.

Let's have a talk with him at the next level.

And let's just say, hey, you know, as a mom, I'm so frustrated now.

I don't know what to do with you.

I'm about to put you out.

And I don't want to put you out, but you're not holding up your hand at the bargain.

See, it used to be understood in our community, your bargain was that I brought you a diploma.

No matter what happened, your sacrifice requires me to bring you a high school diploma.

I'm sure your grandparents said that was it, right?

Right?

So for me, we have to start to set these regulations back up.

And, women, Lord knows I love you to death.

But, man, if the government divorced you tomorrow, you wouldn't have nothing but us.

See, because the government could divorce you tomorrow, they've shown you that.

They fired the ones that worked for them.

It won't be so long before they tighten it up on welfare.

And I'm not saying every black woman's on welfare because more white people are on welfare.

Absolutely.

They call it snap.

They give it a whole new cool name and shit.

Snap of the heel.

They change the name.

Your ass at the EBT.

I seen a white man.

It's a goddamn clause at the goddamn EBT.

Going like, oh, you get in the way of that, too.

You know what I mean?

So for me, we better start turning inward toward each other.

And we better start figuring out how to save these young men from themselves.

And that discipline can happen from the village.

And I think that we have to return to a village-minded concept.

Mike,

when did this happen that we became so envious of one another?

Like, Mike got it.

Man, I don't know why he got it.

I don't know why he bought that car.

I don't know why he's doing so well.

When did that, Mike?

It wasn't like that.

Maybe I didn't see it.

Maybe everybody was like us.

Nobody had any more than anybody else.

So they couldn't say why he had such and such because they didn't have no running water or no indoor plumbing either.

You act like the people who owned you.

We become too American.

You know, Americans will sell you a dream of

rugged individualism and having more through hard work, but they don't tell you how much they cooperate behind your back.

Them state senators in Georgia cooperated.

And that's why they got the financial and physical advantage over so many people,

poor, black, and white, underneath them.

We have to learn that cooperation is going to be the way again.

Envy doesn't bring you.

Envy comparison is a thief of joy.

Oh, man, I was so happy.

We used to be in Tuskegee the first few days.

I'm down there.

I'm like, we ain't got no goddamn video games.

We ain't got no, we just want TV.

Man, by the third or fourth day, you'd have forgot all that exists because you just on a farm with your cousins.

Yep.

Hanging out.

You're free all day.

Yep.

You know what I'm saying?

Running outside with shorts and no shirt on.

Just running.

And there's a freedom in that.

So

I think that that I'm going to say that a lot of the people, most of the people that are telling you how great their life is on Instagram are lying and capping and flexing.

Decide what makes you happy and really, really just decide what makes you happy and aim toward that.

And man, stop comparing yourself to other people.

Stop comparing yourself because you ain't had to suffer the suffering they've had to suffer.

You don't know what they went through.

You don't know.

Boy, I heard that so many times in my life.

You don't know what they had to do to get it.

You know, go listen to that song Jezebel by Sade.

Yep.

You know, when she talks about a new dress that that woman is wearing and boy, you never know what she had to do to get it.

Oh, bad.

Looks like a princess in her new dress.

Come on, man.

How did you get that?

Do you really want to know?

She said.

Do you really want to know?

That's what I'm saying.

Everybody got something to say bad about a dancer because they ain't never been forced to dance.

But them girls get up there, they do their jobs, man.

But, man, them same girls that be at church, same girls start their businesses.

So don't envy.

Don't envy.

Envy is a thief of joy.

I almost felt myself envy a friend one time.

I checked myself so quick.

I literally had to go in the the bathroom and talk to myself.

Like, what's wrong with you?

Wow.

This is your friend.

Yeah.

Like, what's wrong with you?

You know what I mean?

Like, I had to have a talk with myself, but that evil never got back in my ear again.

Right.

You know?

Mike, you had a relationship with your grandmother, like I had with mine.

Yeah.

And I remember when my grandmother was about to leave, and I remember coming back in the room, and I held her my arm, and I said, Granny, I got it.

Yeah.

I said, you don't have to worry about mama.

You don't have to worry about spanking Libby.

I got it.

I said, you've done your job.

I I said, you can go now in peace.

And probably a week later, she was gone.

But she just needed me to reassure her that her baby could hold it down.

Because now

I'm in charge.

Your grandmother passed in your arms.

Yeah, I'm a girl, man.

I mean,

because I slept with my grandmother till I was 15.

Yeah, come on, man.

I was going to be a sophomore in high school, and I'm sleeping in the bed.

When my grandfather died, I slept with my grandmother.

My brother slept with my grandfather.

My grandfather died in 77.

I didn't get out of the bed with my grandmother until 83.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

So what she meant and to see

the woman that you love so much that poured everything into you

and the life just leave.

Man, this girl had been trying to get me to believe in the Lord my whole life.

Not that I didn't believe.

I just had questions.

Just like, man.

Because you've been an inquisitive kid.

Yeah, I'm just like, man, I don't really get it.

You know what I'm saying?

Like,

and I remember we was at Shelter in Arms, man.

Shouts out to that organization and that Take Care.

My daughter, Mikey, went there.

Now she's freshman in Hampton.

They're having a Black History Month.

She died

in a leap here on the last day.

And

the guy told us we had to park down and walk up.

I said, mama, you shot so I could dry you up.

I was like, no, no, I'm fine walking.

And we walked, we got about halfway up the hill, man.

She thought her name was too plain.

It was Betty with an IE.

so i called her beatrice i said that's fancy enough for you beat right i said beat

i'll take you she said no i won't walk and we walked and we got about halfway up the hill but we had just had an argument

i picked her up and i'm taking her down there and her mother had gotten married and

her mother

was married to a solid dude you know he was kind of dude coach football and uh he had actually coached my youngest son pony and he was involved in and and and and kids in the community so i liked him enough i told him you know know, if we going to both father this child, we have to have a relationship.

You know, he ain't going to just get to be over my daughter and we don't talk.

We got to chop it up.

You my friend now, both.

I asked my grandma, I said,

why are you talking to me about being married?

You know what I mean?

She said, well, I've been thinking.

I was like, what you been thinking?

Well, why don't you just let him adopt her?

I mean, you got three other kids.

Oh, man, I lost my goddamn mind.

I lost my motherfucking mind.

I said shit to my grandma.

I said, what the fuck you talking about?

I'm talking to the woman that raised, that used to beat my ass with switches.

I'm like, what?

Like, what do you, I finally figured my life out.

I finally got stable.

I've gotten married.

I have, I have this.

I can take care of it.

I can do this now.

And after I went on a rant, she said something she never said.

My grandmother, she did something wrong out of bed.

She said, I beg your pardon.

You know, I beg your pardon.

But she said, I hurt your feelings.

I said, yeah, mama.

And I'm going damn near crying.

I said, what are you going to say something like that for?

I said, mother, her name's Michael.

The f ⁇ another n ⁇ raise Michael.

You know what I mean?

I'm looking like, I'm gonna let another, her name can't be nothing but Michael Render.

She said, I'm sorry.

And we rode there, and the guy instructed us.

We had to walk up.

And when she got up the hill, she looked at me

and she looked past me and she seen something.

And I just couldn't take my eyes off her, but I knew I was witnessing in that moment something.

And when she seen something, she smiled.

And she looked back at me, and she smiled, and she put her arms around me, and she was gone.

I was by myself.

I was in the presence.

It was that quick.

It was that quick.

I was in the presence for that moment of my

spirit, my mother, because my grandmother raised me.

I was in that moment with her and with our Creator.

And then she looked at me and it was as though she said, I've done my job.

I've done my job and I'm gone.

And I remember

attempting CPR on her

and then it was just like the spirit that came over me to say, I got her.

She's gone.

And since that day, I have not stopped working.

Since that day, blessings have not stopped pouring in since that day and that day made me a believer that I am here for a purpose i don't know that purpose but i know i have one i know i'm on a journey set forth by a righteous and divine being and man i tell you what the utter absurdity of having a mother that's only 16 years older than you my mother told me in the funeral car as we're going to the grave site she spazzed on me on my uncle who's autistic on everybody me and shay in the car she's like that shit went foul you got to be with my mama when she was dying.

And I was like, I didn't want the f ⁇ ing job.

Denise was usually cursing.

I'm like, I didn't want the fing job.

Like,

she said, it ain't fair.

You think that's your mama?

I'm your mama.

And one day, I'm going to be gone.

And you're going to realize that.

And God damn it, she died on me.

She died on me like six, seven years later.

And when she died on me, it hit me that

my mother at 16 years old made a decision like the woman in the parable of Solomon when they came before two women said, this is my child.

And Solomon said, well, cut them in half and give each half.

And the one who was really the mother said, no,

I give this child to you because it'll be better raised.

And that's when I realized, man, I'm so blessed.

I'm so blessed.

My grandmother was such a good mother to me.

She was such an impression that I had, I found a woman and married a woman that was just like her.

She was, her and my grandfather gave the second half of their life up to raise me.

So when you compliment my intelligence, you complimenting them.

You compliment an illiterate man from Edenton, Georgia, who would sit me in his lap and say, read to me.

You compliment a girl from a big family that owned land in Tuskegee that said, I'm going to take these kids and show them that it isn't about material stuff, but it's about what's in your head and your heart.

You took that, but a

year old girl said that I'm gonna allow my mama to raise this baby because he don't have a better shot oh man that's when I really realized like

oh man I realized that that that God favors me and my mother was a part of that favoring because as much as a mother as my grandmother was the choice to give me up to her by my mother is probably the most important decision that's ever been made for me.

And I wish, you know, LeCrae got me here a tip on a song now called headphones.

headphones and if my mother really did have headphones right now in heaven i just tell her thank you

just thank you so much i tell people that same story yeah my grandmother my mom sending my brother my sister and my myself to my grandmother yeah and my grandmother raising my mom's three

and loving my mom's three more than she loved her own yeah

I say sometimes the best decision doesn't involve you.

Man, hard.

And people don't understand.

Sometimes you can only under, sometimes

things can only be seen through the eyes that are crying.

I know this story because I lived it.

You know my story because you lived it.

Amen.

Amen.

And you have a greater appreciation.

Because there ain't no question in my mind.

Your grandmother loved you more than she loved her own kids.

And that's why your mom said what she said.

Boy.

Boy.

I get it.

I understand.

That's all I wish I could.

I understand.

What's next with Killer Mike?

I don't know.

I just know God got somewhere for me to go.

It's my job to be dressed and showered and ready.

You know,

I know that I have things to fulfill with people I love that I made promises to.

I know that ultimately my promise is to the person I look in the mirror and I say, I'm going to do this for you.

I know that Shay and I have someone to go and grow.

I know my children, I got to make sure they can take care of themselves before I get out of here.

I pray that I'm around to see grandchildren and great-grands.

So I'm 25 more pounds down.

I'm out to 300 clubs.

So that's the immediate goal.

What did you try to get down to?

I was up the family at 420.

What?

I'm down to 325 now.

So

you're going to get on the three?

Yeah, I mean, I'm getting on the three.

That's the goal.

Get on the three.

Tighten up.

Like my girl Shay.

Shay about to start cooking, Shay.

She cooking.

But I...

Have it my hammer, brother.

I'll give you this.

In the immediate, I want y'all drinking this because this is really good.

And Elle and I worked hard.

In the immediate, I want y'all to listen to me on Conversate because I'm talking about some real things.

In the immediate, I'm going to put up a newsletter soon and a place to buy this.

I want y'all to, if you can't get to the swag shop, get some products.

In the immediate, I'm going to keep truth-telling.

I'm going to keep, I'm about to go in.

We're about to make another Michael.

If Elle is in Amsterdam and he calls me and says, hey, man, I got all the beasts from Running Jewels 5.

I'll fly to Amsterdam and we'll get that done.

But I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.

And ultimately, it's what my grandmother said.

I'm going to keep doing good and I'm going to keep doing what I'm supposed to do.

Kill a mic, ladies and gentlemen.

That was ugly.

That was excellent.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

Want to slice, got to roll the dice.

That's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

Want a slice, got to roll the dice.

That's why.

All my life, I've been grinding all my life.

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You

Yeah, that one.

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So, what do this animal

and this animal

and this animal

have in common?

They all live on an organic valley farm.

Organic Valley dairy comes from small organic family farms that protect the land and the plants and animals that live on it from toxic pesticides, which leads to a thriving ecosystem and delicious, nutritious milk and cheese.

Learn more at OV.coop and taste the difference.

Hi, it's Colin from the Colin Coward podcast.

I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it, or in this case, when I taste it.

Tito's handmade vodka.

Good stuff.

No flash, no gimmicks.

Smooth, clean tasting, made the right way.

Tito's made in Austin, Texas.

Real attention to detail.

I like to keep it simple.

Tito's soda.

one lime, a lot of ice, refreshing, easy.

Summer, winter, spring, totally versatile, always works.

Listen, baseball season's here.

The perfect time to kick back with some Titos.

It's what I pour, you should too.

Distilled and bottled by Fifth Generation Inc., Austin, Texas.

40% alcohol by volume saver responsibly.