Nightcap Hour 1: Tua APOLOGIZES for SNITCHING + Rico Dowdle talks BREAKOUT PERFORMANCE vs Cowboys + FLACCO & CHASE take CONTROL + Pickens SHOWCASES Talents

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Speaker 4 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. Y'all know who I am.
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Speaker 4 that link is pinned in the chat nightcap won listener's choice today ocho in both categories from signal we want to want to thank each and every one of our listeners and subscribers and everyone that voted for nightcap we could not have done it without you we got special guests joining us a little later in the show We got Rico Dottle and Devin White joining us a little later in the show.

Speaker 4 But first, Ocho, Tua apologized for criticizing teammates for being late to a players-only meeting. Let's take a listen to what Tua had to say.

Speaker 10 Here's his full statement: made a mistake, and I'm owning up to that right now.

Speaker 10 You know, I've talked to guys on the team about it, talked to the leaders about it. And, you know, that

Speaker 10 they know my heart. They know that

Speaker 10 the intent was right. But no matter the intent,

Speaker 10 you know, the intent can be right, but when things get misconstrued or however the media wants to portray it,

Speaker 10 that leaves a void of silence and a lot of questions for the guys on our team. Now, being one in five,

Speaker 10 you know, we talk a lot about, all right, we got to get this going, we got to get this going, come in excited to go to work, forget about the noise, noise.

Speaker 10 And I feel like I just added onto that for our guys.

Speaker 10 You know, for myself, I got to look at myself as a leader, protecting the team. I don't feel like

Speaker 10 I did that to the best of my abilities. I felt like I let the emotions of the game get to me after the game.
And, you know, that's something that I can learn from as a leader on this team.

Speaker 10 and what happens in-house should be protected and none of that should have gotten out And so I want to publicly apologize about that. I want to move forward.
And now I want to focus on Stephen Browns.

Speaker 11 Hey, I love Tua.

Speaker 11 I love him to death. You know,

Speaker 11 I love what he stands for. I love what he represents.

Speaker 11 Being one and five, you also have to be self-aware. It's all about being self-aware.

Speaker 11 If you had meetings, if you had things that go inside, go on in-house, they have to stay in-house. You should know that.

Speaker 11 Whether you're five and one or whether you're one in five, there's certain things that you don't talk about to the media as a quarterback as a leader of that team as a person with that c on your chest it is your duty to protect those that are in that locker room

Speaker 11 it's your duty so to put it out there in the media and say what some of the other players are doing or haven't done that is

Speaker 11 You know what? I'm not going to use the word. I'm not going to use that word tonight, but it's throwing people under the bus.
You can't do that.

Speaker 4 You just can't. You can't always be truthful.

Speaker 4 Sometimes it's okay not to tell the truth. Come on.
Here's the problem that I have.

Speaker 4 I got me. That would be, though, Joe.
You got me. That would be.

Speaker 11 You got me. You got me.

Speaker 4 You got me.

Speaker 4 No, but

Speaker 4 in all honesty.

Speaker 11 Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 The only problem I have with this, now the media misconstrued it.

Speaker 11 Yes.

Speaker 4 How do the players, okay, if you said what you said, the meters didn't say anything. Your teammates heard what you you said.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 So if anybody misconstrued it, they misconstrued it because the media didn't put no spin on it. All they did was have a bunch of microphones and tape recorders there.

Speaker 4 You said what you said unprompted.

Speaker 11 Yes.

Speaker 4 Unprompted. So and to use Ocho's term, he dry snitched.
Ain't nobody asked him, did players come late?

Speaker 4 for practice was uh you when you had a players only meeting the media didn't know nothing about didn't know anything about that meeting you brought that up and then you also brought up that there are players that were late or didn't or didn't arrive on time or maybe didn't even come to the meeting at all you did that how is it you see that's the problem that i have

Speaker 4 just own up to it yeah and say you know what i was wrong don't add the media the media didn't do anything

Speaker 4 All they did was put the put the microphones in front of you and you volunteer that. So in other words, you dry snitch unprompted information that no one asked you for.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Now, with that being said, it was no choice. And I saw in the chat someone said if that was Tom Brady

Speaker 4 or Troy Aikman, everybody would have been there on time. I told y'all that the other day.
They don't respect him as a leader. But y'all don't want to, see,

Speaker 4 because I'm not in the locker room, you don't think I know what I'm talking about, but I've been a leader.

Speaker 4 And I guarantee you, every time I've called a meeting, which wasn't very many, or anytime I had something, guys showed up on time.

Speaker 4 There was a respect level there that was earned,

Speaker 4 not what I deserved based on what I had done.

Speaker 4 I had earned the right to call a meeting based on the way I conducted myself, the way I played, the way I practiced, the way I met, and what I had accomplished. So I had earned their respect.

Speaker 11 Yeah. You're right.
And

Speaker 11 you know what? Matter of fact, if you do, if they did had a meeting that they didn't show up to or or they weren't on time, and this could be a tall tale on why they didn't.

Speaker 4 Yeah, for sure. Look what happens.

Speaker 11 Look, I mean, so there might be an underlying issue that we don't even know about that has been going on.

Speaker 4 Or to fact, to the point. That's the underlying issue.
Oh, well, listen.

Speaker 4 Let's let's keep it.

Speaker 4 As two guys that spent time in locker rooms, that played the game at an extreme high level.

Speaker 4 He's it.

Speaker 11 Yeah,

Speaker 11 it's unfortunate. And you know what? Even though he came out and apologized, it's too late now.

Speaker 11 Because how do you think that taste, that bad taste that's in those players' mouths that you talked about that know they were late or weren't on time to that meeting?

Speaker 11 How do you think other teammates feel? How do you think they're looking at, even though he's the quarterback, how do you think they're viewing you now?

Speaker 11 It's not the same, Monk, and it would never be the same. So this makes everything even worse on top of being one in five.
Yes.

Speaker 11 Forget the football aspect because now you open up a whole new can of worms.

Speaker 4 I give you a prime example, Ojo. You in a courtroom.

Speaker 11 Yeah.

Speaker 4 One of the attorneys says something. The other attorney stands up and says, I object.
Right. The judge says, sustain.

Speaker 4 How do I make the jury unhear what they heard?

Speaker 4 They heard it. Whether it's sustained

Speaker 4 doesn't matter.

Speaker 11 Too late.

Speaker 4 Or he'll allow it. I've already heard what that man wanted me to get out.
He or she wanted to say. So you can't make me unhear what I heard.
I get the apology.

Speaker 4 The best apology is change behavior we're going to see moving forward

Speaker 4 the greater the player the greater the leeway is

Speaker 4 that's with anything yeah first of all when you say troy eggman and tom brady first of all tua is not on that level second of all they've garnered so much respect you see how the players went to bat for troy

Speaker 4 Tom Brady, that's a whole different animal. Don't ever put Tom Brady.
Tom Brady, he's reserved.

Speaker 4 There might have been three or four other guys in the history of the game that garnered the respect that Tom Brady. Tua isn't one of those three or four guys with that being said

Speaker 4 you have to be mindful ocho because

Speaker 4 and this is what i tell guys that that i think at some point in time will be leaders

Speaker 4 you don't know who's actually watching you what you do what you say how you do it right

Speaker 4 But all I can tell you is this, if they see you behave in a certain type of manner and you make money and you get things, they'll behave that same way because they believe that is acceptable behavior.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 even though you don't know who's watching, if they're watching, or why they're watching,

Speaker 4 just always try to put your best foot forward. That's all you can do.

Speaker 4 He will learn from this, hopefully.

Speaker 4 It's hard for me to believe that a guy that played at Alabama, played at such a high level, at such a prestigious program, wouldn't know that you can't throw teammates under the bus, that sometimes, Ocho, sometimes, look, and we talked about this, Ocho, all the time.

Speaker 4 As a coach, sometimes you got to lie to your players, even if you don't think they can win. Hey, we can beat these teams, we can beat them,

Speaker 4 hey, we do X, Y, and Z. Sometimes you gotta lie because sometimes it caused great hurt, harm, or embarrassment.
Yes, and it might have caused all three. Now, like you said,

Speaker 4 how do we get that back?

Speaker 4 I'm not so sure. So, because I'm thinking, bro, when you go home, you'll be pillow talking like a mofo.

Speaker 11 Yeah, it is,

Speaker 11 it's no way to get that back huh there's no way to get it back there's only one thing that cures everything there's one thing that cures everything when you

Speaker 4 do that

Speaker 11 my point exactly winning is the only thing that can cure it but i still think they won't view him the same in that same light no matter what you can apologize you can say everything you could you can talk to him quite you know privately but once you leave that locker room and you out of that space that's supposed to give you You don't have to worry about any of the bullshit you got to deal with on the outside world.

Speaker 4 Right. Wait a minute.

Speaker 11 Now I got to deal with it when I come to work.

Speaker 11 My own quarterback, right? Nah, man, they never gonna look at it the same.

Speaker 4 That's why I say that's what quarterbacks court. If you notice, the most of the great quarterbacks, no matter how good they play or how bad they play, they always take responsibility.

Speaker 4 Yeah, when Peyton Manning, they lost the game, Peyton Manning said, I got to play better. It's on him.
Tom Brady says, I got to play better.

Speaker 4 John Elwyn, guys would always say, I need to play better. They never said, even though they played great, a drop pass here, a missed assignment there, the defense gave up 12 points late.

Speaker 4 They always put the onus on themselves. That's a part of being a leader.

Speaker 4 If you're the leader, even though somebody made a mistake, I'll take it. That's on me.
Now, I'll call them and say, hey, we need to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Speaker 4 Make sure we get it corrected, but this is on me. And that's what Tua needs to understand.
You would like to thank a guy that's been the quarterback for an extended period of time at levels.

Speaker 4 He's a high school quarterback. Normally, the quarterback

Speaker 4 is the leader. Not always, but the majority of the time, I would say 80% of the time, because a lot of times their best player is the quarterback, coach up.
So he's normally the leader.

Speaker 4 In college, it probably kicks up

Speaker 4 85%. In the pros,

Speaker 4 I don't know if I've ever seen a starting quarterback that didn't have the seat since they've been allowed it. Have you? No.

Speaker 4 I haven't either. So with that being said, he just has to be mindful.
It's a mind feel

Speaker 4 what's going on. And it's easy to get frustrated, especially, like you said, when you're losing.
You're one and five.

Speaker 4 Because if they're five and one and they're six and oh, ain't nobody, hey, we're not having this conversation.

Speaker 4 Even if guys are coming late, even if guys are late to practice, ain't nobody said a word.

Speaker 11 We're not having this conversation.

Speaker 4 You should have nipped this in the bud a year ago or two years ago when you were winning and you were allowing guys to show up late. That's when you nip it in the bud.

Speaker 4 But you allow things in a win. Now it's a problem when you lose.

Speaker 4 You see, when you lose, Ocho, it's not how we play it on the field. it's all the other things.
Right.

Speaker 4 All the other things. Like I said, you don't win a football game on Sunday, you win a football game Monday through Friday.

Speaker 4 Yes, that's when you win the games in your how we meet, how do we practice, how do we study, how do we prepare, did we get treatment like we're supposed to?

Speaker 4 If we got a little nagging, did we take care of it before it became a big issue? Right.

Speaker 4 Hopefully, Tu will learn this lesson. Yeah, hopefully, he does.
It's tough because if they don't start winning games,

Speaker 4 it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
And

Speaker 4 look, like I said, the greatest apology is change behavior. We're going to see.
Go ahead, Ocho.

Speaker 11 Change behavior. Well, it's not change behavior off the field.
It's to change behavior on the field.

Speaker 11 You know what the best sorry is for his teammates? What? Your performance.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 11 And how you play, being the difference maker, being that you are the quarterback, being that you do make the most money on the field, that means your level of play has to be up here.

Speaker 11 It has to be eons above everybody else, especially when you come out and you do something like this. Well, hold on.
You can't be stinging at the joint.

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 11 Then going in front of the camera and telling what we got going on behind closed doors and then looking like, you know what?

Speaker 4 I don't know.

Speaker 11 No, you can't. You can't.

Speaker 11 You got the whole locker room looking at you funny.

Speaker 11 I'm telling you.

Speaker 11 And I'm not even in there.

Speaker 4 i'm telling you

Speaker 11 he could fix it but he could fix it with his plate with his plate it'd be all smiles

Speaker 4 if

Speaker 4 even if he he would have been wrong even if he had thrown for 400 yards and four touchdowns yeah

Speaker 4 ex he exacerbated

Speaker 4 the term

Speaker 4 aggravate which means to make worse He aggravated the situation. It was already bad, Ocho, but he aggravated the situation.
Why, Ocho? Because he threw three picks.

Speaker 4 So he made a situation that was bad. He made it worse with his plate.

Speaker 11 Yeah. Well, listen, it was already a fire, right? It was already a fire.
Yep. So it was already a fire.
He took the goddamn gasoline

Speaker 11 and threw it on the fire.

Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 11 Well, shit, all it did was make the fire goddamn bigger. It made it worse.

Speaker 4 Made it worse.

Speaker 11 Now you're going to have hell putting it out.

Speaker 4 For sure.

Speaker 4 Is that me or you, Ocho?

Speaker 11 What I do? I'm right here. I'm looking at you.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 4 Because for a second, I couldn't hear you.

Speaker 11 Oh, yeah, I'm good. I'm good.

Speaker 4 You sure? Yeah, you're good.

Speaker 4 And what has happened, Ocho, is that for a fire to burn, it needs oxygen.

Speaker 4 What he gave the fire was oxygen.

Speaker 4 A lot of. A fire will not burn.
Hey, you could have the biggest fire rob it of its oxygen. You see a candle?

Speaker 4 Put a jar over the candle and it can't get any more oxygen, it'll go out.

Speaker 4 You gave it oxygen. That's why when people say things, OJo, we have to be careful how we respond because we're giving it oxygen and it'll keep burning.
See, things will burn as long as it has oxygen.

Speaker 4 Let it die out. He could have just let it die out.
Oh, yeah, I understand that he's seething. I understand that he's upset.
You're losing ball games that you don't think you should have lost.

Speaker 4 Guys are

Speaker 4 coming in two minutes, five minutes, 10, however many late. They're late to meet it, late to practice.
You know, it doesn't seem to be important. They're not as attentive as they need to be.

Speaker 4 Yes, it can get frustrating, especially, especially. Like I said, I don't know what he's actually like.
I've been around players that it was the end-all be-all.

Speaker 4 Everybody is not like that, the end-all-be-all.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 it was probably bothering him. He's like, well, this is probably why we're losing.
Guys are not taking this as serious as they need to. Okay.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 if they held you in such high regard, if they respected you as the leader, they're not coming late. No.
They're just not.

Speaker 4 I mean, a little thing, Locho, hey, man, check this out, man. We need, hey,

Speaker 4 let's go to the movies.

Speaker 4 After a workout on Monday, guess what? 15, 20 of us go to the movies. Yeah.
Hey, man, let's go bowling. 15, 20 of us go bowling.

Speaker 4 It's things like that. Yeah.
But they got to respect you.

Speaker 4 Guys don't respect you.

Speaker 4 They're going to blow you off. It's really that simple.
Tour, you're going to have to play better. You're going to have to be better.

Speaker 4 Not just on the field because leadership is just not a call and plays and in the hole and you got to see on your jersey. You got to, it's off the field, Ocho.
It's the things, it's things like that.

Speaker 4 You suppress things that mike mcdaniel or upstairs don't even know about a fight that was about to happen something's about to go down somebody owe somebody some money okay what happened

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Speaker 4 Right. Ocho, we're going to get back to this.
We got a very special guest guest joining us. He had a monster game the week before.
He told his former team, y'all buckle up.

Speaker 11 Buckle up. Buckle up.

Speaker 4 And lo and behold, he came and gave him that work.

Speaker 4 186 yards. I think he had over 230 yards.
I think he had like 230 of a total offense with receiving and running the football. Rico Dowdle joins us.
Rico, how you doing, bro?

Speaker 11 Great, man. Can't complain.
How you doing?

Speaker 4 I'm doing amazing. I'm doing amazing, bro.

Speaker 11 Hey, all is well rd before before unk starts my first question my first question to you would you come into the game like that obviously saying what you had to say giving the team bulletin board material before the game even started did you have a chip on your shoulder did you have a chip on your shoulder going to that game oh yeah for sure you know that was one of those games i had circle early on in the season but i think i always played chip on my shoulder since since coming into the league so so it's a chip on my shoulder when i step out there

Speaker 4 okay no go ahead go ahead i was surprised because you said this they know it look you were there so they know what type of person you are they know what type of running back you are do you think they underestimated you that's like man this rico just doing talking man rico ain't gonna do none of that on us what i mean because obviously you said it i mean you just came off a monster performance the week before and you called them out you said hey buckle up Yeah, I probably, they probably underestimated me a little bit because they know, like you said, they know I talked to him, and I'm going to talk a little bit.

Speaker 11 uh he actually told me that before the game uh sam i talked to sam before the game he was like yeah i told him

Speaker 11 he was like i told him that's just you you're gonna talk da-da-da i don't know what the chatter was in the locker room but i don't think they relayed the message uh to the four people

Speaker 11 i got i don't think they did for sure

Speaker 11 Yeah,

Speaker 11 I think, obviously, RD,

Speaker 11 I've been high on the Carolina Panthers for a very long time. Obviously, before the season started, I continuously said it over and over and over.

Speaker 11 For those in the chat that are watching, I'm not sure if you heard it in general. I was very high on them.
And I said they were one of the two teams to watch this year.

Speaker 11 And I said they would surprise everybody. You guys are playing extremely well.

Speaker 11 And after last week's game, what is it that you guys need to continue to build on to make sure everything continues to go in the right direction?

Speaker 11 Headed towards the end of the year. Yeah, I say just really playing

Speaker 11 complimentary football, all three phases, offense, defense, specialties. I think that's one of the main things.

Speaker 11 As long as we do that, I think we'll be fine, not hurting ourselves how we did early in games, having to dig out of the hole early. No, if it was penalties, turnovers, and things like that.

Speaker 11 So I think if we do that and just continue to do that and be able to execute, keep executing at a high level, I think we'll be fine.

Speaker 11 Okay.

Speaker 4 How disappointed were you? You came in, you run for over a thousand yards, and you're like, man, I had a good season. Okay, I'm young.
I ain't got a whole lot of mileage on me.

Speaker 4 I know they're going to come. I know they're going to break your boy off.
I'm going to be able to stay here.

Speaker 4 I'm settled here. I like it here.
They know what they got with me. I know what I have with them.
And then come free agency. And I don't know if they called you.
I don't know if they lowballed you.

Speaker 4 Walk us through.

Speaker 4 Your thought process after the season ends. You have your exit meeting with your running back coach, maybe the head coach, the general manager.

Speaker 4 Walk us through the steps up until you made the decision you're going to Carolina.

Speaker 11 Yeah, so

Speaker 11 um they never made an offer at all um in free agency yeah they never made an offer at all um so just going through when we got out my agent we obviously thought we would get something hear back from but they just the kind of team they like go test the market let us know what you hear and then come back and let us know and we'll see if we can do something with it so it was that kind of situation they told me to go out they're gonna let me test the market and um

Speaker 11 So I didn't take liking of that because I thought maybe what I've been through there in my five years and what I was able to do once I was given the opportunity to run the ball, what I was able to do, I thought maybe they would have an offer, but you know, they didn't and it worked out for me in this way.

Speaker 11 And I'm getting a show now. So happy where I'm at now.

Speaker 4 With them telling you to go test the market and they'll see, that probably kind of left you feeling some type of way like, nah, bro, if I, it's like, bro, and you tell your girl, you go test the market.

Speaker 4 If you find somebody out there, you like, if somebody like you out there, I might come back and take you up. But if not, you know,

Speaker 4 you welcome to go. No, bro, you set me free, I'm good.

Speaker 11 Yeah, it definitely doesn't work like that. But yeah, it definitely

Speaker 11 left. Uh, I wouldn't necessarily say I was just too disappointed because I know the nature of the business and how they operated.

Speaker 11 I mean, I was a free agent the year before, and they pretty much told me the same thing, but I ended up signing back there.

Speaker 11 So, um, yeah, I just know the nature of the business, so I couldn't take uh harp on it too much. Just know I had to look for the next best opportunity for me and where I can go make an impact.

Speaker 4 You look at a situation, Dave Canalis, your head coach, he was very non-committal. Chuba Hubbard is coming back.
You rush for 389 yards

Speaker 4 in the past two ball games, 473 yards of total offense. And

Speaker 4 he was like, they asked him Sunday after the game. He's like, hey, Rico's playing extremely well.
We're definitely going to have a package. But he didn't say who's going to start.

Speaker 4 When that first offense runs out there on the field, is Rico running out there with the field?

Speaker 11 No, we'll see Sunday when the game comes.

Speaker 11 Coach and he ain't really uh put too much into it but he just saying we'll see when the game comes we're gonna go through this week and then when the game comes sunday we'll see

Speaker 11 and you know and honestly honestly that's not a bad thing when you think about it obviously i know you want to you want to be the starter you want to be the one to get the bulk of the carries but when you have a two-headed monster like you and hubbard back there like that it opens up everything else man because of what you did last week you don't you don't you you don't understand i mean as a player i think you might get it but as a as a fan of the game and watching and understanding that that and played it, but what you just did last week, it makes it that much easier for whoever's calling the plays, whether it's Dave or whether it's the officer coordinator, you made Bryce Young's job easier.

Speaker 11 You made every receiver, T-Mac and Legged and 100, you made all their jobs easier. Because now when you play, oh, well, goddamn, already in the game, safety.
Man, come on down in that box, please.

Speaker 11 Every time.

Speaker 11 Every time you in the game, The defense is checking to something different because you are the one threat offensively that you got to worry about yeah for sure i definitely i definitely following what you're saying there that's one thing that's going to i think is going to help is fan the whole offense play action they got to respect the run i think it's going to open up your pass for sure

Speaker 4 oh yeah so what what if your coach what if the uh coach canalis the head coach what is your running back coach told you okay you know hubbard is going down this is your opportunity because you know you split in carries and you know he get hot you might not get the amount of carries because running i mean most skill position is all about rhythm and it's hard to get a rhythm.

Speaker 4 You get one carry, you get a carry the first drive, and then you might not get another carry to the third drive. And then you might have five carries in the first half and only get two.

Speaker 4 So now, with you being the big-time running back, the full-time running back, now you're able to get into a rhythm.

Speaker 4 What has coach told you to say, okay, just make sure you stay, keep your head in the game, make sure you stay ready?

Speaker 4 Is that some of the things that your coach and your position coach have relayed to you?

Speaker 11 Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 11 Going into it, I only talked to my running back coach about it. And he is like, okay, just kill your ops, you know, when the opportunity has presented itself to go out there and show what I can do.

Speaker 11 Just make sure I make the most of it. And I think I was able to do that.

Speaker 11 Absolutely.

Speaker 4 One-year deal. So, would you like to remain with Carolina long-term? Or are you like, look, I'm going to take it one year at a time.

Speaker 4 I'm going to go out here and play my absolute best this year, and then I'm going to let the chips fall where they may. Ain't nothing promised.

Speaker 4 The only thing I can promise you, I'm going to give you everything I got, every down I'm not going to be here.

Speaker 11 Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
So, exactly. That's all I'm gonna say on that.
Just go out there, take it this year, and then see how it goes. Just got to be productive.

Speaker 11 I know it's a production-based business, so as long as I'm productive, the rest will take care of it. So,

Speaker 4 yeah, do you look back? Do you are like,

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's good, y'all should have kept me. Will you look up at all your former team and you see them struggling, and you're like, Yeah,

Speaker 4 that's what you get. Do you, I mean, because I understand that you have friends over there.
I mean, you still use there for five years, so you do you have built relationships, but it's not like

Speaker 4 I want y'all to have success.

Speaker 11 Yeah, no, I don't really look at it like that. Like you said, a lot of those guys are my friends.
I ain't really rooting for that, rooting for that downfall.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 11 the dude they got over there, Javante, he's been having a pretty good season too. So,

Speaker 4 yeah, he also has a pretty good season, too.

Speaker 11 But yeah, I'm not really, I wouldn't really be rooting on that down. I want him to win and things like that, all my friends there, but I just wanted to beat him when we played them.

Speaker 4 I'm gonna help you out with this. You had an injury, your career in South Carolina.
You had a lot of injuries. How are you able to stay healthy?

Speaker 4 Because normally if you limp into the NFL, you're going to limp out of it. You had injuries in college, but for some reason,

Speaker 4 you've been able to stay healthy in the league.

Speaker 11 Yeah, I think that was one of my biggest things coming out of college injuries, just not being able to stay healthy.

Speaker 11 But thankfully, I never had no injury where it was, I think, longer than like 10 weeks recovery.

Speaker 11 That was my longest injury. But yeah, in college, just had a bunch of nicks and nets.
I broke my fibula and tore my hamstring, had four knee surgeries, surgeries sports hand

Speaker 11 damn god damn you need to tell me you ain't had nobody to keep you out of 10 weeks i broke a fibula yeah the longest one was 10 i broke my fibula like week five my sophomore year of college played in the ball game but yeah that was like my worst one i think in college so but i'm like eight surgeries deep though but this thing helped me eight yeah eight surgeries deep Did you think like, damn, I got buzzard.

Speaker 4 Look, I can't catch a breath.

Speaker 11 That's exactly what I was thinking.

Speaker 4 Like, why it keeps happening? I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Speaker 11 I don't know why I keep happening. But, yeah, since just getting in the NFL, I think those first couple years, just sitting out,

Speaker 11 taking a brand of my body and figuring my body out, really, that's what allowed for me to stay healthy now, just figuring out what worked best for me. Dropped my weight.

Speaker 11 I played it like 225 in college. I played like 210, 215 now.

Speaker 11 So just figuring out what worked best for me.

Speaker 4 Hey, you know, that college training table.

Speaker 11 Hey, does it ever be in the back of your mind when you're playing, like trying to be cautious and a little hesitant based on you know what you want to do, or you just you free will don't even care about the past injuries and you just go out there and just yeah, I go out there and play.

Speaker 11 I'm trying to bring the punishment. I don't really think about that at all.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I don't think about it at all.

Speaker 4 Look, you went to the game. Let me ask you a question: who are your top five, your top five running backs at USC all time? Game cocks,

Speaker 11 top five all time.

Speaker 11 I know you're gonna have to put Marcus Lattimore up there for sure.

Speaker 4 Okay, Marcus,

Speaker 11 you got Deuce Staley.

Speaker 4 Okay, uh,

Speaker 11 who else?

Speaker 4 I don't really know.

Speaker 4 Well, George Rogers gotta be first.

Speaker 11 Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I don't know how

Speaker 4 George Rogers got him on Deuce Staley.

Speaker 11 And then you got

Speaker 11 22. What was number 22? I don't remember.
I don't remember our own name.

Speaker 4 I don't

Speaker 4 Harold Green.

Speaker 4 I don't think

Speaker 4 I'm going to be able to do that.

Speaker 4 That was before your time.

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Speaker 4 george graduated george graduated in 80 or graduated left in 80 so oh yes waiting for me i'm born in 98.

Speaker 4 Hey, man, Rico, man, continued success, man. Congratulations on a great start to a new year, a new year, a new team.

Speaker 4 you've been playing unbelievable keep up the great work stay prayed up stay positive yeah good things have happened down the road and when you make the pro bowl this year as one of those uh nfc running backs yeah come back and tell us how you did appreciate it

Speaker 11 hey hey hey hey do me a small favor yo y'all got practice tomorrow right

Speaker 11 man tell the receivers man all together at the same time telling boys i'm betting the house on them this weekend i'm gonna make sure i relate

Speaker 11 Yeah, letting the boys know. Tell them boys I say, keep pounding, bitch.

Speaker 11 I'm gonna let them know for sure.

Speaker 4 All right, love. Appreciate that, Rico.

Speaker 4 Appreciate you stopping by.

Speaker 4 All right, man.

Speaker 4 Oh, Joe. Joe Flacco was asking about the idea of Jamar Chase going off script and changing his routes.
This is what Joe said.

Speaker 10 What is it like when Jamar comes to you and says, I understand the play call was this, but.

Speaker 10 Oh, yeah. I know.

Speaker 10 I don't think he's out there freestyling, at least not with me right now, you know?

Speaker 10 And listen, I mean, ultimately, if he came to me and said, hey, I know the play is this, but I'm going to do this, I'd say, okay, I guess, yeah, that's what you're going to do. Okay.

Speaker 10 It sounds good to me.

Speaker 10 I would lean on him to feel it out.

Speaker 10 I don't necessarily see that happening, but I'm just saying, and hypothetically, if he was to come to me and do that, I'd just say, yes, sir.

Speaker 4 That's what we'll do.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 11 Hey, you know what, Uncle?

Speaker 11 That's a beautiful thing, too, when you have a veteran quarterback like that and the receiver can see things that the quarterback can't see and the receiver can see things that the officer coordinator might not be able to see obviously he's he's up there maybe in the box but it's different when you when you feel side and you got a a bird's eye view it not a bird's eye view but a a a front view of everything and what you what you can and can't do if if if um jamar chase and Joe Flacco get some type of communication skills or maybe a number system.

Speaker 11 I know that's not the offense that they're running right now, but with Joe can hit him something like down by the hip honk, like if he sees something, they're playing off and they got the eye contact, you just throw him something simple.

Speaker 11 You know how many yards, how many yards receive, I'm talking about good receivers, good receivers, and quarterbacks leave out there because they stay on script

Speaker 11 when it's right there. The game of football is not complicated.
You can go off script and do something very safe.

Speaker 11 Oh, he's playing off seven yards, the safety in the middle of the field, give him a hitch, give him a slant. And we seen, we seen Uno, we done seen him take a goddamn slant 80 goddamn yards.

Speaker 11 We'd have seen him take a hitch, break a tackle, and go down 30, 40 yards

Speaker 11 until backside catching. I mean, it's just little stuff like that, man.
And it's good. I'm glad we have Joe.
I'm glad they asked that question because now

Speaker 11 what's going to happen now is when they play this goddamn game tomorrow night,

Speaker 11 they're going to come a time where there's a play-ass call.

Speaker 11 And they're going to be on their own page.

Speaker 4 Well, I think that's something like he said Jamar comes to him and tell him that right they don't have the type of relationship they haven't worked together long enough that Joe will know that okay, it's this coverage and he's supposed to do this He's gonna do that.

Speaker 4 They haven't played together long enough It takes time.

Speaker 11 It takes time. That's what that's why I said some kind of some kind of some kind of something that they can do with their hands It got to be something

Speaker 11 It got to be something just because you leave so many plays out there.

Speaker 11 You leave so many yards out there trying to do everything by the book sometimes you just have to play football Sometimes it's not just X and O's. Sometimes it's not scheme.

Speaker 11 Sometimes you can go off script and still have success based on what you see.

Speaker 4 But the thing is, Ocho, look, Joe, you mentioned Joe just been there. He's been there 10 days.

Speaker 4 It's hard to build a connection and where, hey,

Speaker 4 Ocho, I touch my chin, run a smoke.

Speaker 11 Yeah.

Speaker 4 See? You know,

Speaker 4 I touch my hip, run a square out. It's hard to get that because, hell, I tell it back.
I'm like, hey, my chin was just itching. No, I didn't mean to do it.
My chin was itching.

Speaker 4 So, you know what I'm saying? Don't show you and Carson had that because you and Carson have built up a rapport, a relationship, and that's something that you talked about. Right.

Speaker 4 You know, John, I would know if a guy's playing this kind of leverage, this is what John expects me to do. If I'm getting man coverage, he expects me to bust it out of the break.

Speaker 4 If he's outside, he already knows. I'm going to take three steps and I'm pulling up.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 So that's, but that was over years and years and years. Or if I'm going to uncover.
But that's asking a lot. And I'm glad Chase comes to him and says, look, I know I'm supposed to do this, but

Speaker 4 on this plate right here, I'm going to do that. Right.
So now he's already put the seed. He's already planted the seed in Joe's hand.

Speaker 4 Hey, don't you throw that. Don't you throw that in, cut, because I'm running out.

Speaker 4 Because if you throw it in, you will hit it right in the chest. Because I'm telling you what I'm doing.

Speaker 11 Yeah, listen, long day on the same page. Long as they on the same page, because we are not built.
Obviously, with Joe just getting there, you just said it.

Speaker 11 Joe only been there, goddamn, you've been there, goddamn, 10 minutes. He only been there 10 minutes.
So we can't overcome mistakes. We can't overcome turnovers.

Speaker 11 We got to be as efficient as possible on offense all four quarters. The same way we looked.

Speaker 11 When we came out of halftime at that Green Bay game, that 17 play drive. That's what we got to look like all four quarters.

Speaker 11 Now that Joe has a little bit more time with the offense with the play calling getting a little familiar with the system

Speaker 11 I think we have a good chance at competing and beating The Steelers that are on a roll right now Aaron Rodgers is on fire. I'm not gonna sit here and lie.
I'm not gonna sit here and try to talk trash.

Speaker 11 Boy, they look good, huh? But I think we can compete with them. Now, I don't know what we're gonna do on the defensive side of the ball.

Speaker 11 That's the problem. That's been our Achilles heel for a while now.
But offensively, Joe can keep our head above the water. So basically, I'm saying if this was the Titanic,

Speaker 11 the Bengals offense is Rose.

Speaker 11 We might be in the water, but she's on the dough.

Speaker 4 So, in other words,

Speaker 4 right now, you're not a fast sinker, you're slow sinking. I mean, it's going to take some time for you guys to get to the bottom.
But, you know, hey, right now, you got a hole.

Speaker 4 You got a little hole in your hole, OJ. I'm just saying, you got a hole in your hole.

Speaker 11 Hey, listen, the boat done sunk. Can Joe, I mean, Joe Burrow's hurt, right? But listen,

Speaker 11 if the offense is Rose and Rose Rose is on the dough in the water,

Speaker 11 Rose is on the dough in the water. So she's floating.

Speaker 4 Yep.

Speaker 11 She's floating. So we good right now.

Speaker 11 We good.

Speaker 4 That water real cold, Locho. Oh, it's cold.

Speaker 11 It's going to be, you know, I'm going to the game tomorrow. I'm flying out there.
It's cold. We're going to be all right, though.

Speaker 4 Look,

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 4 the Steelers' defense is playing unbelievable. I mean, Jalen Rams is giving them a boost because he can do so many things.

Speaker 4 He can play safety. He can play corner.
He can play slot. He can blitz.
He's an outstanding tackler.

Speaker 4 He's not afraid to get his uniform dirty.

Speaker 4 He's one of those guys that he wants, you know, Ocho, you remember back in the day, Ocho, we wanted our jersey. We wanted our uniform to get dirty.

Speaker 4 And guys that didn't play, they rolling on the ground trying to see like they got their uniform dirty in the game. Nah, bro, you just rolled on the ground.
You ain't getting no action.

Speaker 4 Jalen Ramsey is a guy that'll get his uniform dirty.

Speaker 11 Hey, he's going to come up and hit you now. Hell yeah.

Speaker 11 Hey, you know who you remind me of? I mean, listen, I know you watched a lot of football over the years, a lot of defensive back play, and you know how much I love DBs.

Speaker 11 And I've never, I've never seen two DBs that always come to mind when I think of defensive backs, forget covering. They can cover, but boy, they will come up and smack you.

Speaker 11 I'm talking about smack you. That goddamn Antoine Winfield, as small as he was when he played.

Speaker 4 Yeah, shit, yeah.

Speaker 11 And that goddamn Nate Clemens when he was in Buffalo. Yeah.
Man, Lord have mercy. Yeah.
Boy, y'all don't have no regard for your body.

Speaker 11 They ain't care. And you got to remember, this is the running era.
So I'm watching them pull up shared blocks and taking

Speaker 11 running backs that's way bigger than them. I'm not talking about going low and going.
I'm talking about up high. Man, what is you doing?

Speaker 4 Yeah, you got to, I mean, in that era, you know, champ was a good tackler. Champ

Speaker 4 didn't mind hitting. Yeah.
You know, you run to a guy, you run to a side where you're like, oh, man, he's not a tackler. Okay, we're going to try to, hey,

Speaker 4 what we're going to try to do.

Speaker 4 do, we're gonna try to put a lineman on him, we're gonna try to put out safe, because what you do, you push the corner, and then you have the corner track crack the safety, and so we're gonna see if you want to make a tackle.

Speaker 4 We know the safety, most safeties are good tacklers, especially strong safety. We know they'll tackle.
We want to see if you'll tackle.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's what we want to see. Are you going to retreat and hope somebody, because a lot of times, though, they'll retreat hoping somebody else come.
Y'all make the tackle. I'm going to hold it up.

Speaker 4 Now I'm going to hold it up. I'm going to keep giving ground.
Now y'all come and make this tackle.

Speaker 11 Waiting on pursuit to come help.

Speaker 4 that's exactly what they're waiting on

Speaker 11 you know what's scary too and i think about db especially during our era during our era what's even worse now is when you when you crack replace and that goddamn guard is pulling

Speaker 4 it

Speaker 4 it's more difficult now ojo because the db can't go low on the offensive lineman you can't you know back in the day the dbs could go low they could cut the lineman now and create a penalty but they cut that out that's a penalty now that's a 15 yard penalty if you cut the legs out of an offensive lineman,

Speaker 4 so much. Oh, yeah, you got to step up and take that punishment.
And most corners ain't really trying to take on no guard, not trying to take on no tackles or anything like that.

Speaker 4 So you think the Bengals got a shot tomorrow, Ocho?

Speaker 11 I think so. And I'm only saying this from an offensive perspective.
You know,

Speaker 11 I'm only saying from the offensive perspective. And the fact that it's a division game, both teams are familiar with each other.
They know exactly what each other like to do.

Speaker 11 I know they have a different quarterback. I know they have a different quarterback.
Hell, we got a different one, too. But for some reason, the game is always close.

Speaker 11 I don't think it will be a blowout. It will probably be a low-scoring game.
And in order for us to win up front, off the line, you got to have some type of pride, baby.

Speaker 11 You got to have some type of pride. I know TJ White is going to make his plays.
They get played too. I know they're going to make their plays, but for the most part, if you keep...

Speaker 11 Joe Flacco upright, he can wheel and deal. And we saw that early in the second half of of that Green Bay game.
We saw it. We saw it.
So I'm hoping to get a little bit more of that all four quarters.

Speaker 4 Arto Joe, we're back with our newest segment, Player Fade, presented by Prize Picks, and we've got new animation. Let's take a look at our animation.

Speaker 4 Hey.

Speaker 4 That's what you came up with, Ash?

Speaker 4 Download the app today. Use code Shannon to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.
This is how it works. The Nightcap staff has made lineups, and here are their picks.

Speaker 4 We either play their lineup or we make some changes choosing more or less. Let me see what you got on here.
Jamar Chase over 74 and a half yards.

Speaker 11 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 11 Absolutely. And listen,

Speaker 11 they're going to make a conscious effort to get him the ball. They're going to make a conscious effort to get him the ball.
So he definitely going to be over 74.

Speaker 11 Damn.

Speaker 11 What's wrong?

Speaker 4 You sure about that, OJ?

Speaker 11 Hey, um,

Speaker 11 they playing man.

Speaker 11 They playing man.

Speaker 11 But if you're, this is the Steelers. This is Steelers.

Speaker 11 They ain't showing no love. They ain't showing no love.

Speaker 11 They're not giving you no special privileges. We're going to line up.
We got Darius Slate. We got Jalen Ramsey.
And we're going to be in your face.

Speaker 4 I'm going to have to get back to that one. Joe Flacco over 36 and a half pass attempts.
How many attempts did he have on Sunday against the Packers?

Speaker 4 45?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I'm going over.

Speaker 4 He definitely got to to throw it because you're not running on the Steelers.

Speaker 11 And why would I just get ready to say that? If we don't establish the guy, you're not running on them.

Speaker 11 We ain't going to have no choice but to throw the ball.

Speaker 4 TJ Watt over 3.5 tackles and assists. Yeah, he's going to have two sacks.
So you mean to tell me that man they're going to get two more tackles?

Speaker 11 They did not say that.

Speaker 11 They said assists and tackles. He might not get a sack.

Speaker 4 Oh, he's going to get a sack.

Speaker 11 You real confident over there.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 TJ Watt, a bag boy. And Joe Flacco, Whole Foods Grocery.
So, what you do? Sack him up.

Speaker 11 You sound real confident.

Speaker 4 I'm going over. I'm going over.
I'm going over with

Speaker 4 TJ Watt, three and a half tackles and assist. Jamar Chase, 74.5 receiving yards.
God almighty know.

Speaker 4 Ooh!

Speaker 11 I'm going to let you get that one.

Speaker 4 You got it.

Speaker 4 Packers defense ain't like the Steelers, though.

Speaker 4 I mean, the Steelers defense. Steelers defense.
The Packers defense isn't like the Steelers, right? That's what it means. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Have the Steelers given up a 100-yard receiver?

Speaker 4 How many.

Speaker 4 Who did? Stannon?

Speaker 4 Oh, from Cleveland?

Speaker 11 Who?

Speaker 4 Yeah, Cleveland. Fannin had 81.
What did they have?

Speaker 4 What about Seattle?

Speaker 4 Did they play Seattle? When they did the Vikings. Vikings.
Jamar Chase went crazy. Jefferson had...
Yeah, Jefferson. I mean, Jefferson.

Speaker 11 Just Jefferson?

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, yeah, over, over, over. Over.
Oh, oh,

Speaker 11 I said over from the beginning. I'm not sure what you was comfortable with.

Speaker 4 But I don't know if Joe Flacco can walk it to him like Wentz. Or walking to a Wentz.

Speaker 11 What?

Speaker 4 Or walk it to him?

Speaker 4 Because you remember

Speaker 4 when the Steelers played the Vikings, the Vikings had two receivers over 100 yards, Jefferson and Addison.

Speaker 4 Steelers won, but I'm going to go over. I'm going to go over.

Speaker 11 I told you, you shouldn't.

Speaker 4 I mean, I'm taking the staff picks.

Speaker 11 That was a no-brainer.

Speaker 4 Now, this is the last time.

Speaker 4 Ain't letting y'all pick ish else if y'all get this one wrong. Download the app today.
Use code Shannon to get $50 in lineups after you play your first five dollar lineup it's good to be right

Speaker 4 yeah y'all

Speaker 4 oh joe george pickens who's set to become an unrestricted free agent after the season praised the cowboys but noted he also wants to showcase my talents uh pickens was asked about staying in dallas long term and said i wouldn't mind it The guys in the locker room are super cool.

Speaker 4 The energy is great. But like I've said,

Speaker 4 I always want to showcase my talent, most definitely. Pickens, who turns 25 next March, figures to be one of the most sought-after

Speaker 4 receivers in free agency should he hit the market. On Tuesday, Jerry Jones did not want to get into whether the team would like to open talks on a new contract with Pickens.

Speaker 4 Ocho?

Speaker 11 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Pickens is going to want somewhere between $32 and $36 million.

Speaker 11 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Is he staying in Dallas or

Speaker 4 is Jerry going to hand him walking papers? Let him walk.

Speaker 11 I don't know. If I was him, I wouldn't even play.
I wouldn't even want to be there, honestly.

Speaker 11 I'm just saying that's just me personally. I want to maximize my potential.
I want to maximize my earnings and go somewhere else where I can contribute. He's about you want to show your talent.

Speaker 4 We know.

Speaker 4 I mean, he's going to need to be the number one. He wants to go somewhere and be number one.
He wants to be number one then.

Speaker 11 I mean, that's what he is. That's what he is.
It's

Speaker 11 me. Hey,

Speaker 11 they're in a great situation. Obviously, it was unfortunate that CeeDee Lamb got hurt where Dak Prescott had two number one receivers.

Speaker 11 But he needs to go somewhere else to maximize as much as he can get, be that number one, and continue to build his career in being a number one player and doing

Speaker 4 that

Speaker 11 he knows he can do. Where? You said Cleveland?

Speaker 4 Cleveland.

Speaker 4 They need a number one receiver.

Speaker 4 I'm trying to think of places. Oh, the Raiders.

Speaker 11 Ooh, I like it.

Speaker 4 The Raiders.

Speaker 11 Hey, wait a minute. Do you understand how you understand how that marriage right there would be perfect? George Piggins, NFL young boy, at the Raiders?

Speaker 11 No, that is a great matchup. That's a great matchup.

Speaker 4 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 11 It makes sense. It fits.

Speaker 11 It fits him, his persona, his image. You know, being that, hey, that is perfect.
Pete Carroll. Hey, Pete.
I'm not tampering. I'm just telling you ahead of time.
Geno Smith.

Speaker 4 You know where he'll be good at too, Ocho? Yeah, where? The Giants.

Speaker 11 Oh,

Speaker 11 until.

Speaker 4 Jackson Dart?

Speaker 4 Hey. Oh, neighbors.
They got neighbors. Neighbors coming back.
Never mind. Okay.
Not there. All right.
Hold up. Let me see.
Atlanta got

Speaker 4 Drake London. Drake London.
Drake London.

Speaker 4 Tampa got Mbuka and they got Godwin.

Speaker 11 They got Mike.

Speaker 4 New Orleans, they got Olave.

Speaker 4 Shaheed.

Speaker 4 Yeah. But I think, me personally, I think George Pickens is better than both of those guys.

Speaker 11 Different type of player, different type of receiver.

Speaker 4 I'm trying to,

Speaker 11 I like the rate. I like the Raiders, huh?

Speaker 4 I love the Raiders. I love the Raiders.

Speaker 11 I like the Raiders' idea, honestly.

Speaker 4 All things being equal, yeah.

Speaker 4 The question is: do they like Zay Flowers or do you like George Pickens?

Speaker 4 Who?

Speaker 4 Because both of them are going to be up.

Speaker 4 Huh?

Speaker 11 Pick going and pick going to the Raiders. I'm telling you, I'm putting that in the universe right now.

Speaker 11 Because

Speaker 11 that CeeDee Lamb team over there in Dallas

Speaker 4 on his helmet.

Speaker 4 The Colts need a receiver.

Speaker 11 Damn.

Speaker 4 Okay, we got to do that. You like the Colts with Indiana Jones?

Speaker 11 Yeah, I like it. I like it.
But they kind of set.

Speaker 4 I mean, Tennessee, they're not set.

Speaker 4 What? Oh, yeah, dude. I mean, they got Pittman.
They played. They paid

Speaker 11 Pittman, Downs. They good.
They good. They got a nice little squad.

Speaker 11 And you know what I like about the Coast Receivers?

Speaker 11 Everybody has a different strength.

Speaker 11 Everybody has a different strength. Everybody does something that the other doesn't.
So I like what they have right now. I'm telling you, pick it to the Raiders.

Speaker 4 You're right. From me, you know what, Ocho?

Speaker 4 The Patriots.

Speaker 11 No, man. No, no, no, no.

Speaker 11 No.

Speaker 11 Hell, nah. No.

Speaker 4 You don't like it with Drake May?

Speaker 11 No, no.

Speaker 11 I like Drake May, but they got

Speaker 11 their core. Like, Pickens and Patriots, that, no, don't put him in that environment.
Absolutely not.

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 4 You don't like that structure. It's too structured.
Yeah, no, yeah, don't put the man in that. You think you're slick, OJo? What?

Speaker 4 Don't put him in that environment. Nah, man.

Speaker 11 Hell nah. Hell nah.

Speaker 4 I mean, so what? What do you think as far as a market? Open market? You think about, I mean, what type of numbers are we looking at? Somewhere 32, 32, 33, 35, 36.

Speaker 11 Based on what I'm seeing right now from him and what he's done in the past and what he's probably going to finish with this year, he's probably going to get somewhere between

Speaker 11 34,

Speaker 11 36 on the open market.

Speaker 11 I'm telling you, it's going to be P. Carroll.
It's going to be,

Speaker 11 I'm not his agent, but I'm going to be responsible for him getting over there over there with Gino. So Gino got somebody to get that thing to, you know?

Speaker 4 I tell you what, Gino, keep turning the ball over. Gino ain't going to be there throwing it to him.

Speaker 4 He better stop turning the ball over. He got 10 interceptions in six games.

Speaker 4 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Speaker 11 See, you know, you know what would probably relieve some of those interceptions?

Speaker 4 Him not hitting other guys in the chest.

Speaker 11 Or having a target like George Pickett to throw to.

Speaker 11 Brock Bauer still hurt. Brock Bauer still hurt, huh?

Speaker 4 He is.

Speaker 11 Damn.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Look, he is engaged. Yeah.

Speaker 4 He knows the Cowboys are going to throw the football. He knows he has a quarterback that can get him to football and die.

Speaker 4 He's getting more opportunities because

Speaker 4 cd is down yeah now the question is when cd comes back will he still get 10 11 targets a game normally the 10 11 12 targets go to cd yeah so let's just say for the sake of argument ojo we take five of those four of those targets away and so instead of getting 10 11 12 he gets six seven eight

Speaker 4 can he still give us I mean, there'll be games that he still can give you 100, but if he can give us, you know, 70, a quick 70, quick 80, a tub here or there

Speaker 4 he gonna get paid oh oh yo the guy is gonna be he's gonna be 25 yeah the start of the 2026 season

Speaker 11 he ain't even he ain't even he not even close to his prime no not yet he ain't even got his prime and me won't get his prime for another two years yeah he gonna he gonna get it listen i and i i told you i told you didn't i tell you when i talked to pick last year didn't i tell you wouldn't be no more problems yep you ain't had and we ain't had a problem yet I told you, and I'm and I stand on that.

Speaker 11 And he's going to get rewarded not only for,

Speaker 11 I hate using the word good behavior, but being a professional, but you're going to get rewarded for your play on the field, not what you're doing off of it.

Speaker 11 You're going to get rewarded for your play on the field tremendously. And I know you're going to see this, young bull.
Stay locked in. Keep the main thing, the main thing.

Speaker 11 And you're going to get what you deserve.

Speaker 4 I got a place where he can go.

Speaker 4 Well, Green Bay.

Speaker 4 josh jacobs said they need a number one

Speaker 11 i like hey that's a good one on that's a good one josh jacobs said they need a number let me let me let me let me tell you something though let me tell you something i look at the green bay offense

Speaker 11 the same way i look at look at the indianapolis colts

Speaker 11 where they all are by committee and each game you never know whose day it's gonna be right you never know who's day whose day it's gonna be

Speaker 11 yeah you can run it by it might be it might be wicks it might be uh, goddamn Reed

Speaker 11 come back, it might be Dobbs. You, you never know.
That I, so I like what they have over there. I like that little young system they got.

Speaker 11 I want him to be that man over there in oh, in Las Vegas

Speaker 11 because it's just gonna be him, you ain't got to worry about nothing else. You know, every game you get 10-11

Speaker 11 targets

Speaker 11 going crazy.

Speaker 11 Pete Carroll, what are we talking about?

Speaker 11 I like it.

Speaker 4 I like,

Speaker 4 look,

Speaker 4 I like,

Speaker 4 I always thought he was talented. I thought he was immensely talented.
The catches that he's making, he's tremendous run after the catch.

Speaker 4 It's just, you know, sometimes you need a change of scenery.

Speaker 11 Yeah, that's all I have to do.

Speaker 4 Sometimes you need a change of scenery.

Speaker 4 He had worn out his welcome in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was, you know, Ocho,

Speaker 4 Pittsburgh and George Pickens were sick. They were sick of him and he was sick of them.

Speaker 11 Yeah.

Speaker 4 So, when you get a situation like that, the best thing to do is to go ahead and part ways.

Speaker 4 They were able to get something for him.

Speaker 4 He was able to get a place. They're going to throw him the football.
Now, it worked out perfectly. I hate that CD got hurt in order for people to see just how good George Pickens is.

Speaker 4 Because I think the thing is that, you know, his behavior, his petulant behavior, you forget that he's an immensely talented receiver.

Speaker 4 CD going down, he got an opportunity to showcase that.

Speaker 4 I don't know if CD's back this week or when CD's coming back, but he's put enough on tape to make people understand, to let people know, oh, he's for real now. I'm him.
He's the real deal.

Speaker 11 I'm him. What are we talking about?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Jerry Jones says he's open to making a trade before the November 4th trade deadline. We have thoughts all along that if we see a way to improve this year with a trade at the

Speaker 4 trade at the deadline, then we'll take advantage of it. If there's a trade that will help the defense, we're in position to make that trade.

Speaker 4 I want to remind everyone, one of the great things about our trade we have with Green Bay is that our tackle makes about $22 million a year. He cost us two.

Speaker 4 Cost him $2 million, Ocho. We're getting a $20-something million dollar player for $2 to $3 million right now.
And he's playing about as well as anybody on the defense. Why do I bring that up?

Speaker 4 That alone has increased our flexibility of being able to look at potential trade right, whereas you might have had cramps before.

Speaker 4 So we're in position to look at that trade, and that means we're going to make one. That doesn't mean we're going to make one, but Jerry is saying, Ocho,

Speaker 4 we have the assets, we have the cap space. If there's somebody out there that can help this defense at the deadline,

Speaker 4 we go do it. I mean,

Speaker 4 that's wishful thinking. I told you.

Speaker 4 Does that strike me as something Jerry would do? No, but

Speaker 4 the question is, Ocho, is there a Charles Haley out there?

Speaker 11 No, but listen, they have a problem stopping the run. And I told you who to go get.

Speaker 11 I told you who to go get over there in Tennessee. He went 98.

Speaker 11 He nice, a very good run stopper.

Speaker 11 Listen, I'm not sure who the Mike Back is, but you should have a feast. You should have a hell of a time.
If Jerry makes that move and go get Brother Simmons,

Speaker 4 Jerry just, he just keeps throwing shade. And we got a D-tackle that's making $2 to $3 billion a year.
You know, okay, Jerry, you got off Micah. You didn't have to pay the $200 million.

Speaker 4 It's moving along. But guess what? Yeah.
Those picks that you got, you're going to have to give them up if you want somebody at the trade deadline that can help your team.

Speaker 4 Because I know you don't think somebody's just going to hand you over one of their best defensive players for what?

Speaker 4 They say, oh, you got three first rounders

Speaker 4 no you want this player where you had three now you got one

Speaker 4 or you give up one of those for a first rounder and a second round or something so but the question is is simmons available

Speaker 4 because simmons can stop the run and he can rush the passer

Speaker 4 right

Speaker 4 so the question is

Speaker 4 who's available

Speaker 4 And what are you willing up to?

Speaker 4 What are you willing to give up to get him? Right.

Speaker 4 That's what that's that's all about ojo yeah you have the capital you have the cap flexibility and you have the draft capital to go to satisfy

Speaker 11 but but think about this even if you do have the capital

Speaker 11 who are you gonna who are you gonna go get that's gonna make a difference that's gonna make a change that can put a dent in some of the issues that you have right now i mean who

Speaker 11 It would have to be, it would still have to be a big name.

Speaker 11 It would still have to be a name that's going to cost you because anything else outside of that and just going to be another body and i don't mean that in a disrespectful way it's just going to be another body that's it taking up space not someone that can actually make a difference for you defensively and change the trajectory look oh i'm messing up my words trajectory of your defense

Speaker 4 look if i'm cleveland if i'm cleveland jerry give me three first rounders and a second round pick i'll give you miles garrett

Speaker 11 well then you put yourself right back in the same situation you would have been in if you had kept Micah and paid Micah. So you right back in the same boat, claiming

Speaker 4 this is not what we needed.

Speaker 11 You said we got better.

Speaker 11 Jerry said we got better when we let Micah go.

Speaker 4 If I put my finger to Jerry's back and says, who's better, Micah or Miles Garrett? Who you think Jerry's going to say?

Speaker 11 Miles Garrett. Okay.

Speaker 11 Am I wrong or am I right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, you're right. I believe he'll say Miles Garrett.
I get what you're saying, too. You're saying, well, okay, you gave up all that, what you acquired, so you got a very similar player.

Speaker 4 But I believe Jerry believes that Miles Garrett is an upgrade of some staff. I'm not saying head over heels.
I'm not saying two, but I believe he believes he's an upgrade over Michael Parsons.

Speaker 11 Well, then it would still be the same thing because also he said, I let Michael Parsons go because when we did have him, we didn't win the Super Bowl.

Speaker 11 So are you saying Michael Parsons is going to be the one to come here and change? My Miles Garrett is going to be the one to come here and change that?

Speaker 11 Are you going to win the Super Bowl? Are you going to get close to winning the Super Bowl?

Speaker 4 I'm trying to find difference makers

Speaker 4 that

Speaker 4 could help the Cowboys. You have

Speaker 4 a difference maker? Okay, Trey Hendrickson, do you believe Hendrickson's available?

Speaker 4 Is Jeffrey Simmons? I don't know. We'll find out.
Hold on.

Speaker 4 The 15th. So

Speaker 4 we're about 19 days. We're about three weeks away from finding out what's going to be available.