Club Shay Shay - Paul Pierce Part 2

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Part two is underway.

You said something very interesting.

You said it takes

more than one great player to win a championship.

You see LeBron leave Cleveland and then go to Miami, team up with D-Wade, team up with Bosch.

But it's still, it took a Battier making shots.

It took a Mike Miller making shots.

It took a real

making shots.

Can you explain to people that

watch the game of basketball, love the game of basketball,

why and how it's so difficult to win a championship?

Because you play,

I mean, all the 82 games and, you know, a Tuesday night game, man, I don't feel like it, but somehow you got to summon it up to give it everything that you got.

Why is it so difficult to win an NBA title?

Because you have to be good and lucky.

Like, there's going to be an element of luck involved in every championship run in year.

And what I mean by that is health is a thing.

Yep.

Because if you think about it, like Toronto is not beating Golden State if KD.

It's 100% healthy.

Absolutely not.

Right?

No.

And there's just certain things that happen along the route that it's just like, like, if Kawhi misses that shot, that bounces off the like.

Yeah, it's just like a luck is a major factor.

Right.

And

health.

Like, if you're one of the elite, I always say this.

They're like, Paul, who's going to win the championship?

So every year, you got about four or five teams that can win it.

You can realistically win it.

So I say, all right, whatever team is the healthiest at the end will win.

So like, look at OKC's run.

They win seven games with Denver.

The kid strains his hamstring.

What's his name?

Gordon.

Gordon.

Gordon.

Aaron Gordon.

I'm thinking like, man, they pushed him to seven.

If he's healthy, it's going to be tough.

And look at Indiana.

Tyrese Halliburton.

How lucky was he?

Them shots, boom.

Like, it's an element in all of this.

I think he hit like three game winners with it.

Three game winners that went in Indiana.

And then

they go seven with Indiana.

But he tears his Achilles early in the game.

So

who knows?

Like, does OKC beat a healthy Boston team?

Right.

You know, who knows?

So, I mean, it is what it is, and it's part of the game.

So, I always say that luck is an element.

I feel like in 2010, if Perkins don't tear his ACL, we got somebody that we can put on Kasal to where, because Kasal went crazy on us in game seven.

Yes.

And so I feel like, man, man, maybe they got lucky.

Right.

You know, so it's always something.

You know, so I feel like those are the two big reasons you win or you don't.

Being around the game, following the game, you still study the game.

Has there been a player ever been as criticized as LeBron James?

Never.

Like the pressure that was on, like I told you earlier in this conversation.

Because you said when you were in a locker room, you was in the All-Star Game in Philly, and they said there's a 17-year-old kid that's in high school that can play in this game right now.

That's the hype he was getting.

And under these conditions with the social media and to be able to live up to it, like when you look look at all the great athletes all through time, and you know, people will say, I don't like LeBron.

That's not true.

I have much respect for LeBron.

Like, LeBron.

Y'all have battles.

Like, LeBron is the reason I am who I am.

Right.

You know, like, I became a better player playing against him.

And what I will say, there's nobody in the history of the game

that's

been as hype, that's lived up to it and surpassed it and had to carry so much weight on his shoulders politically,

athletically, and then be under the microscope to be a household citizen.

Yes.

Like he has no blemishes.

He got no margin for error.

Like he and he has no margin.

Think about all our great athletes.

Ali had his.

You know, Russell went through his, the magic went through.

Jordan had his thing with the gambling.

Like every Floyd Mayweather had his issues with the jail.

Tyson, all the great, great, greats at the top went through something.

LeBron is 20-something years in, and I don't see no blemish.

That's incredible to me.

Because I had to really sit back at it, like, damn, you know, Cole dealt with his thing in Colorado, got past that.

Like, he ain't, what did he deal with?

Man, man, he's been.

Model citizen.

Like, even if it's some speculated rumors, it ain't naturally, whatever, whatever he deal with behind it, whatever, who cares?

But

to go through your career, how he's went through it, is incredible, man.

I tell people all the time, I say, no matter what you thought he would be, he superseded it.

He became that and more.

Ain't nobody you thought, you like, yeah, he good.

He really good.

But you ain't thought this man was going to be no four-time league MVP, no four-times finals MVP, would play this many years, be the all, because people thought Kareem's record was going to be untouchable.

Because

Biggs, because, you know, Big, after Kareem got, hey, they went, Kareem gets the rebound, pass it out.

Magic hold that thing up.

All right, get on down there.

Go get that cap and throw it to him.

He's a wing guy.

Guys ain't supposed to play that long, play that well.

Pete, true, that ain't supposed to happen.

I don't care what anybody say.

You're not supposed to play 23 years, 22 years, and play at the level.

The man was an all-NBA selection.

The man was sixth in MVP voting in year 22.

And he's still regarded as a top 10 10 player i'm just trying to think like if i was given the nickname truth my rookie year

and i made one all-star game i'd be getting killed

like he had the nickname king from day one day one and lived up to it yes you know think about nobody got their nickname only one that got their nickname early was magic yes that he had that in high school lived up to it yes like like who had a nickname as a rookie coming in and lived up to it?

Like, we all got our nicknames.

Like, Alan Iverson, the answer, got his when he became the answer.

And the ticket got his when he got that big contract.

Right.

He got a big contract.

Like, the nicknames didn't come until you really did something.

Right.

You know, he got his before he actually did something and lived up to it.

So that's crazy right there.

Those battles that you had with LeBron, you say it helped shape.

who you became.

And you knew that you had to go through Cleveland when he was on Cleveland in order to get to where you wanted to go the destination you had to go through you had to go through the king well yeah I mean I'm not a top 75 player today if I don't have battles with him and having those type of game sevens right and and playoff moments against him I'm not a hall of famer if you know I don't do those things against him and Kobe like so that's why I say like you know, me being there to put on that jacket, he was a big part of that.

You know,

you got to

go through some real battles with some real players

to really get that kind of credibility.

You know, yeah, I was an all-star player, but you got to have shining moments versus the best.

You do.

You know, versus the best.

And when you do that, then you get verified.

Yeah.

And so I needed him.

And I think he needed me too.

For sure.

Like, because when I look at it, like.

We was putting him out the playoffs and that critical game six in

Boston that he had.

If he loses that game, that changes.

Oh, yeah.

He's not thought of.

He's not thought of in the light that he's thought of now.

Absolutely.

After losing the way, losing in the fashion that they lost the previous year to Dallas and to come back and to lose in sixth game.

And yeah.

But it was that game that now

it re-invented.

Like, okay.

Now we see why people call him that.

Now we see why.

45 and 15.

Nobody expected that.

Yeah, but like that was a game where he went into a hostile environment.

We win that game.

We go back to the finals.

Yes.

So he went there.

He had to have the mindset where people was like, he's not, he doesn't have the killer instinct.

He's not clutch.

It was all these things being said about him.

He erased all that in that game.

And then in game seven, when they beat us in Miami.

Because he had like 30, well, he had like 30, 15, 40, probably that game, too.

So like when you start having games like that, it

builds that in you now.

So like when I start hitting game winners, I feel like I hit them all the time.

You know what I'm saying?

Hey, let's run this pen down.

Let's run this flare to P.

Let P come up off this name.

So now that aura in him, I felt like it grew

going through Boston and having that type of game.

Wow.

You get to your first finals.

Unfortunately, you got to play your hometown team.

You got a team that you grew up

thinking about you saw Magic with all those titles.

You saw Cap, Kareem, and Word and all those.

You grew up.

You understand the tradition of of the Los Angeles Lakers, but you also understand the rivalry that is the Los Angeles Lakers and the Boston Celtics.

So now, like, damn,

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Boston versus the Lakers, but they got a Mofo over there that wear that number.

He was 24 at the time.

I think he's 24 then.

He's 24.

Like, man, why could I get somebody else that's a little easier to get me?

And Shannon, you know this.

Like, to win is stressful.

It is.

It's like, because like people don't take into the account,

I'm not talking to family members.

I'm not, I'm like, I'm.

You locked in.

I'm so locked in that it's putting stress on my wife and kids because I don't want to sleep in the same room now.

Right.

Because I want to be over here.

And now I lose a game.

Now I'm not talking to nobody.

Nobody.

It's so stressful and it puts a strain on the people around me.

And that's the part that don't get talked about enough.

Like it's more than a game.

It is.

You got that seven times.

See, we in the Super Bowl, it's one game.

Yeah.

So my family's coming.

The kids are coming.

I go see them for like a 30 minutes that Thursday when they arrive.

After that, my mom, everybody said, y'all not going to see your dad until after the game.

Ain't nobody going to call me until after the game because I'm focused.

I don't need to, hey, go to SeaWorld, go to Disneyland, go wherever y'all want to go.

Hey, it's on me, but don't call me unless it's an absolute emergency, Somebody going to the hospital, I won't hear nothing.

Just the

rise and fall of the emotions.

It is.

And I'm like, damn, all right, we beat LeBron.

All right, cool.

Now we got a cold, king cold.

Mama, like, man, it's like,

you can't sleep sometimes.

Right.

You got to figure out, like, damn, you know, you up watching tape.

You, you, then you in the whole day.

Thing, this party I'm talking about when you in the hotel, they might, people yelling outside the hotel.

Yeah.

Like, pull the fire alarm.

You can't get no sleep at night.

It's all kind of things that can distract you.

It's like, that's like, but I wouldn't have wanted no other way.

You know, for me as a kid growing up in Englewood to play the Lakers, a team that I grew up a fan of.

And then now I'm a part of this history of Boston and L.A.

Like, I couldn't have asked it to be any other way.

It was almost storybook.

Right.

Like, damn, I'm really playing the Lakers in the finals.

Like, I'm a part, be part of this

Forever.

Let me ask you this, because I've heard, and not just

in basketball, but I've heard this in football too.

I've heard guys said that when they won a championship, it's not what they thought it would be.

Like, is this it?

When you won the championship, was it everything that you thought it would be?

Man, Shannon, it was everything and more.

I built my whole life around this.

Like, it's just like, I don't know who say stuff like that, but like when I dedicate my life to this,

and for just this one moment, even if it was only for like that night or whatever, I can say this for the rest of my life, it was everything and more.

I still feel it.

When I go to Boston, it's cheers.

When I look up and I see that banner, it's not going nowhere.

It's over.

It never.

Everything and more.

I'm a part of this.

When I go to,

Pierce Bill is on us.

Like, it's everything and more than I thought it was going to be.

Because I didn't know, I mean, the feeling is there, but when you, it's getting, it's constantly like you still feel it.

Like, it's been

17 years

since I won.

And it's still, every time I'm in the city, it's still in the city.

It's still kind of like y'all.

It's still like we won it yesterday.

It does.

You know, it does.

Because to be a part of it, Denver, I was the part of the first one to win a championship in Denver.

We went back to back.

I went to Baltimore.

I was the first to win there.

When you put,

and that's what I don't know how you felt because I and I always I like to ask athletes they was like man when you lost I said man it broke me

I said because I knew how I said

things hurt when you put so much into it when you put so much of your time your energy and effort into something and it doesn't work out it don't just have to be sports it can be a relationship it can be a business the more you put something the more you put into something the more it hurt when it doesn't work right man look here.

I still, I lost to Jacksonville in 96.

I still ain't got over that.

It's been 30 years.

Yeah, I ain't got over 2010.

Gotta step.

Damn, we up in the fourth quarter.

Like, it's still.

Because you know what you put into it.

You know how many times you ran those dooms.

You know how many times that you denied certain things just so you could be the best truth you could possibly be.

And when it doesn't work.

Man, it's equivalent to a man being married 20 years and divorcing.

You like, damn, I invested all of this time and time and energy and it didn't work out.

That feeling is not a good feeling.

It's not.

And it's sticking.

Because you feel like you're a failure.

Because

what did I do?

Because now, guess what?

I got to do, IP, I got to play, replay it over and over.

Over and over.

What could I have done differently?

What should I have done differently?

Man, if I'd have trained, man, if I'd have trained a little harder, if I'd have lifted a little bit more weight, maybe if I didn't go out that night, maybe if I'd have studied a little, I mean, all that.

It's the the same thing, same thing.

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

I'll never let it go.

You know, to this day, I never watched that game.

That game seven we lost.

I haven't watched that game, that division round play I've never seen.

I haven't watched that.

I don't need to see that.

I don't need to see that.

I know what happened.

Right, right.

People always ask you, but no, I ain't watching that.

I ain't watching that.

I know what happened.

Right, like you said.

But in that game, man, hold on.

I'll be trying to figure out how you get wheeled off in a wheelchair, P

All right, look.

So the diagnosis is a strained meniscus.

That was the diagnosis the next day.

Have you ever strained a meniscus?

I have.

You know, you can still play on that.

Yeah.

But it hurts.

It hurts.

It still hurts.

You know, and I don't know.

And then your knee is kind of loose.

Yeah.

It's weird.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't have reasonability.

I don't mean maybe y'all can play on it.

It's hard to play on that if you're a football player all that platinum cut that we got to do.

And so when it first happened, it was like a sharp pain.

Yeah.

So it was going down my leg, and I was just like, I ain't ain't never felt no sharp pain in my knee.

Right.

And so that's why I reacted the way I reacted, but I didn't know the severity of it.

Right.

I just felt a sharp pain.

Right.

And I knew it was something.

So like

doctors like, oh,

get away from them.

You know what I mean?

Like, dang,

pick him up, pick him up.

Get the wheelchair.

I ain't asked for no wheelchair.

I just say, hey, hold on, get the wheelchair.

You know, they just brought it out.

It just, and then they had cameras all on everything, all in the hallway and everything.

So I was just like, man, when I got back to the back, I was like, all right, hold on, man.

Let me stand up.

Let me see how to put weight on it.

I had to put weight on it.

Think about it because they carried me.

Yeah.

And I sat down.

So let me see where it's at.

So I stood up.

I was like, yeah, all right.

It ain't bad.

It ain't that bad.

I'm doing this and it's kind of loose.

Right.

But it ain't, it ain't.

I'm weight-bearing.

And you know anything that's weight-bearing, you good.

You good?

Yeah.

You know, because you know I'll sprain ankle feel, it's hard to put the the weight on.

Yeah, you can hit it.

And any other injury that when it's in your legs, it's hard to put the weight on.

So once I put the weight on it, I was like, it ain't as bad.

Let me give me a knee brace.

It just feels like loose, like it's going to tear any second.

Let me just stabilize it

and let me see how I feel.

Right.

And it's the finals.

Right.

I ain't never been to the finals.

Right.

And it's game one.

And I don't know if I'm ever going to come back to the finals.

If I'm ever coming back, I'm going back out there.

Right.

Doc was like, no, I said, man, I can put weight on it.

I just ran out there.

I was supposed to be on the thing.

He was supposed to test it.

Right.

Do all this other stuff just to make sure it wasn't nothing.

I ran out of there.

I was like, no, I'm good.

Give me the knee brace.

And I just ran out of there.

So it wasn't for you to go to the bathroom?

No, no.

I made a joke up on the halftime show.

Man, come on.

Why would I go to the bathroom in the biggest game of my life?

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

Why?

I mean, but if y'all have to go to the bathroom, but if y'all have to go to the bathroom,

I've never had to go to the bathroom during the game.

Never.

Because we got to go, we go on the sideline.

Yeah, but I ain't never walked off the bench to go to the bathroom.

Really?

Never.

If I have to, it's going to be at halftime.

No, you can't wait that.

I ain't never left the bench to lose the bathroom.

Ever.

Ever.

You end up with dropping 15 points in the third quarter, shooting 70% from the field.

People like, man,

I don't know if Truber really hurts.

I love that.

This is going to live forever.

Hey, I love that.

That's your Kirk Gibson moment.

Kirk Gibson

against

the A's when he hit that home run.

That lean,

that stretch y'all home run.

Yeah, I remember that.

Oh, man.

It's going to be a big one.

You win it the first year, and then you come back, you're back in the finals, and you're facing the same team.

And it comes down to a game seller.

Against the mamba again.

Again.

Man.

That's tough, you know, because he's talking about we got to play the greatest and he ain't going to just keep struggling, you feel like.

But they was built.

And Kobe, his will, and he didn't have the best game, but he turned Powell Gasol into Powell Gasol.

Right.

Because y'all neutralized him.

It was Powell and

Duron Hartz metal roar of peace, but then he hit that shot.

When he hit that shot, ball, what went through your mind?

You know what?

I couldn't even be mad because I didn't watch the game, but I know to play because it's

think about this.

You got Kobe Bryant is ISO on the left wing on Ray Allen, and this is a crucial possession.

Because I think they'll up one?

They up one.

So if we get a stop,

we like because Kobe known for icing the game right here.

So I'm like, all right, let me help off of Meta

because that's Kobe.

Like, let's not forget who this is.

Like, we'll worry about him later.

So when Kobe drove, I stepped up to like, hell no, we can't let him beat us because he can beat us.

They're going to have to prove that these other guys can beat us.

And when he hit the shot, it just proved that he had other guys that can beat us.

So I couldn't even be mad, you know, that Ron, because he was struggling from three.

all series long.

So I was just like, he had a late contested three, then hats off.

Couldn't even be mad because I'm not, we can't let this dude beat it.

Yes.

Anybody but Kobe.

Anybody, because we know he can beat us.

Yes.

Because he's beaten too many teams.

So it was just like, damn.

And we had to lead most of the game.

I think we led like 90% of the game.

It was unreal.

I can't even.

You mentioned game seven.

Is it fair that Doc receives criticism for the game sevens that he lost?

He's lost them to the Clippers.

He lost.

You guys had a 3-2 lead in that series because they went back for both games and they won game six and game seven.

Is it fair that Doc receives the criticism that he receives for losing game seven?

No coach in NBA history has lost more game seven.

Really?

Really?

Nope.

Oh, wow.

Remember they

lost.

The really the one that really is that when they had him beat and hard and they lost, I think it was the beat.

I think they had.

And they lost to the Hawks.

Remember they lost to the Hawks?

They lost to the Hawks?

Yeah.

When Ben Simmons wouldn't take that shot.

Oh, damn.

Oh, right, right.

Did he have a dunk?

Yes, yes.

And then they have another one, I think.

Who did it lose to?

They might have lost to the Celtics.

Yeah, I said to the Celtics, I think.

In a game, seven.

Yeah, a couple years ago.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think so.

But the thing is, like,

I will say this about the NBA, and it's different from football.

Like,

you can have a player

carry you to a win.

One player is good enough, your best player, to say, come on, guys.

I got hot tonight.

You know what I'm saying?

You've done seen it too many times.

I got this tonight.

We done seen Dirk Nawiski do it to the heat.

Like, y'all get on my back.

And then when you get to the game seven, really, coaching is out the window.

It's like

they know all our plays.

You know,

the Scout Roads.

You know what they do.

This comes down to your stars.

Yes.

All game seven comes down to your stars.

And point blank, period.

So it ain't, I can't put that on Doc.

You know, I could put the 3-1 blown series leads on Doc

when he's been up 3-1.

Yeah.

He's blown like two or three series.

Yeah, it was Clippers and this is the Nuggets.

He had that with the magic against the Pistons.

Yep.

Tracy McGrady.

Remember that because Tracy was like, yeah.

Tracy was like, yeah, I know what it's like to go to the second round.

He ain't made it.

I'll never forget that.

I'll never forget that.

That's on the coach and the player then.

But like game seven is on your best players, truthfully.

Like they got to step up and bring you home.

We need some clarification.

The reality.

Ray decides to go to the heat.

Right.

You, KG, Rondo.

Are you upset that he left or are you upset?

Part of you might be upset that he left, but did it have more to do with where he left and went to?

Absolutely.

It was absolutely where he went.

You got to understand, we've been battling on LeBron for the last four or five years.

Yeah.

So now it's they're our rival.

Like not the heat on our rival, it's LeBron.

He's our rival.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

So like, dude, we just played them in the playoffs a year ago.

Like, you can't go play with them.

So you don't want him to go help them, help him get a championship?

Yeah, nah, that ain't how this worked.

No,

I would have been better off him going to the Lakers.

And that's our biggest.

Damn.

I would have been cooler with him doing that.

So you, so

if Ray ever said, you know what, hey, man, look here, I'm leaving, you know, blah, blah, blah.

I'm going to lay.

I'm going to join Kobe.

You cool with that?

If we had that conversation and it was like a conversation, I think the biggest issue, Shannon, was we didn't have no conversation with him.

Listen, we, and I tell this story all the time, we, we was a brotherhood.

When you win and you know our wives are friends and our kids are friends.

We doing family stuff Halloween thanksgiving

and for you to abruptly leave without a conversation like hey I'm thinking about you know doing this right we built something here like is this Welcome to AutoZone.

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What I'm really high-key obsessed with is Sinners.

I just saw it.

It's so good.

It's so good.

It is one of the best horror movies in a good minute.

And I like it because it was allowing me to get into arguments with strangers on the street being like, oh, so you didn't like this, but you like the substance.

And then you made a friend.

Exactly.

And I made a friend who blocked me.

I'm actually a person that avoids horror.

And the way that I was the loudest in my theater, and I don't even think that was like all the way as scary as it could have been.

Someone came over to my house and they like asked to come in.

I said, what do you mean?

Excuse me?

Yeah, don't play with that.

And it was a white person.

Well, I got minced garlic in my fridge right now if you really want to play.

I'm chewing on that garlic.

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Like if there was an issue with contract, maybe there's something I can talk to Danny about or Wick.

Like lean on us first.

Like to us to wake up and hear it.

Right.

Like that's the issue I had.

And me and him had that conversation.

I was like, damn, we couldn't even get a phone call or nothing.

Like is it something we could have done?

Like we could have maybe talked to Doc if the contract wasn't to your liking or whatnot.

You didn't like your role on the team.

Like something.

like what is it?

You know, maybe we can help, but like to just like get up, leave the house,

don't tell us where you're going, then we see where you at.

You know,

mama didn't like that.

You know, I couldn't do that.

The rumor had it that Ray was looking for homes when he.

While during the Miami series the year before.

Like before.

Is that true?

No, this was the rumor that we were playing Miami in the playoffs the year before.

Right.

While we were down there, he was already looking at houses.

I mean, Miami is nice, B.

Like, you can't be in a series.

You already checked out.

No, no, I ain't checked out, but you know, mama would have lived in Miami.

Nah.

The weather is nice.

I don't want to live in Boston year-round.

You already in this series.

Like, there's some bullshit.

I'm coming to play for them next year, who we're battling.

You think he was upset with his role?

I think he was upset with his role.

And then went to Miami and got the same role.

If Ray stayed, we could have won too.

I feel like.

You felt at that point in time, if Ray comes back,

y'all are equipped to deal with

LeBron?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You got to understand.

We went back to the Eastern Conference Finals.

Yeah.

Two years, like we went to the finals 2010, but then we played them again in the conference finals like two or three years later in Miami.

Remember that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we was was equipped for a few more years if he stayed.

Right.

So that's, I mean, that's.

It is funny how you guys used to handle disagreements in Boston.

It's reported that there was a disagreement between Ray Allen and Rondo.

For sure.

And you brought boxing gloves.

Yep.

And y'all say, okay, settle it.

Man, we was having a lot of tension at the time in the locker room, and it was like little clicks.

You know, that teams be

clicking up.

And, you know,

we was in a situation.

Our team was built.

Oh, young.

The young guys kicked it.

The old guy kicked it.

So we felt

the young guys was like, y'all don't mess with us no more.

You know what I'm saying?

Because something happened, Shan.

Like,

something happened, man.

We was on the road one day and something got back to the wifeies.

Who pillow talking?

Man, it was some pillow talk going on to where it was messing with the locker room.

Oh, for sure.

Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying?

It came from the young guys.

So the old heads, we was like, man, we got to just move like this now.

You know what I'm saying?

We have to move differently.

And they like, man, we don't mess.

Y'all don't mess with the young dudes.

Nah, y'all talking.

Y'all pillow talking.

Yeah.

And so then KG got into it with Perk.

Rondo got into it with Ray over something.

It was just like a division.

So it was just too much going on.

It was just like, man, all right, we're going to get your issue off.

I brought these gloves.

I had an issue at the time.

We had another dude on our team named Patrick O'Brien.

So I started off first.

Yeah.

I said, all right, we're going to get our issue off.

Let's put these gloves on because I got an issue with you.

Damn.

We put the gloves on, right?

So, no, no, no, no.

We're going to go three minutes.

Boom, boom, boom.

So, then, next.

So, then we didn't know that Big Baby had an issue with Tony Allen.

So, now Big Baby and Tony Allen,

they get their issue.

All right, who next?

Rondo, I want him.

Me and Wright.

Damn, he's already.

I want him.

Come on.

Let's get it off.

And when I tell you, I was right there,

man.

You remember, you just watched that fight, Canelo Bud.

Canelo and Bud.

Remember that ninth round, how Bud came out?

Yeah.

Ninth round?

Rondo came out like that with conviction.

He wanted to,

like, he missed all of them.

Yeah.

But he was trying to tear red head off.

If he had connected on one of them, bro.

Man, oh man.

I'm glad he didn't connect on one of them because he was swinging with some conviction.

I'm talking about, it wasn't no jabs.

He wasn't throwing up a haymaker.

Man, it was no jabs.

So Rodney was throwing one hitter quitter.

Whoa.

And I was just like, damn, okay.

You got that?

We got that.

We got to break this up.

We got to break this up.

If somebody connects, this is going to get out of control.

So we broke it up.

But yeah, they had a little issue.

And, you know, I was like,

Did they mend once they got past that?

So was it better after that?

Or they still had friction?

No, it was friction still.

You know.

Because the report was, is that Ray wanted Chris Paul.

Ooh, I don't know that.

Oh, maybe so.

It was like, yeah, and I think it got back to Rondo.

Yes.

That's one of them.

But it was a lot of other stuff I believe that Ray was doing.

Because I think, you know, Ray would often go to doc and be like, you know, Rondo not.

Give me the rock.

Give me the rock.

and i used to be like right you just go to go to rondo just go rondo yeah because i used to be like rondo run that like come on dog like like come on dog hey we gotta like come on man don't go to yeah just to go to him because he don't feel you snitching on it yeah like go to him yeah because i'll just go right to rondo sitting right here like rondo come on man What are we doing out here?

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

That was like, all right, P, I got you.

All right, cool.

But see, Ray's personality is not like yours.

See, Ray not confrontational.

Ray going to go to the coach, hey, coach, handle that.

And then, but see, Rondo gonna realize where it's coming from.

Yeah, yeah.

But Ray is not as controversial, but he's political.

Yeah.

So you can politically talk to Rondo.

Like, you can use them words to better understand.

Like, me and Rondo might have a shouting match, but we're going to get over it.

You're going to talk better to him than me and him.

Like, yours is going to come off different.

We're going to shout it out and then we're going to be cool, though.

But that's, I mean, that's how we are.

But you guys, and then there was a ceremony, I think the championship ceremony that, and Ray didn't come back for.

Or maybe, or maybe there's something that he was, you guys didn't invite him back.

No.

Oh, oh, it was something.

Ray didn't come to.

It was a few things Ray didn't come to.

I'm telling you.

And that's what made the relationship tough.

Because when Rondo first re-signed this new deal, we all had a get-together for him at a restaurant.

He didn't show up.

Look here, the man tried to tear my head off.

I ain't coming, P.

I'm going to be honest with you.

It's a team thing, though.

And so, like, all that built up to.

Man, I might have came and kicked that whole cake over.

So, but we just felt like no matter your relationship, like, we got to support each other.

Okay, I see what you said.

If I got a bowling event, y'all got to come.

Yeah, for sure.

Like, if they doing this, like, come on, everybody support each other.

We're on the same.

We're trying to win, bro.

Like, you ain't got to stay long.

Right.

You know, and that's, you know, and that's, that was kind of like the beginning of the breakup with all of us.

And it was just like, man, wish we could have stayed together a few more years.

You mentioned one of your former teammates,

Glenn Big Baby Davis, and he had an unfortunate situation where got involved with some activities.

And now he finds himself in federal prison.

How difficult is it to see?

You know, for me, it's very difficult to see my former teammates when they fall on hard times.

Because I remember, you know, I choose to remember the great times that we have in the locker rooms, on the bus, on the planes, planes, laughing and joking on the practice field, and to see him going through what he's going through.

How difficult is that you, Pete?

Man, you hate to see, you know, a few things when you're done playing that you've accomplished so much with people.

You hate to see, you know, them go broke, yeah, you know, and need something from you because I'm always willing to help.

Yeah, you hate to see them go to jail, which has happened in this situation.

And I haven't had a chance to talk to Big Baby.

I would love to like reach out.

I've had a few teammates go to jail, actually.

And sometimes

it's hard to communicate because you got the letter writing and the visitations, you got to do so much.

And then they in other states.

And so you try to just talk through other people and get the message closer to family members.

But you hate to see that type of stuff because of the bonds

you built.

And you hate to see people fall on.

tough times.

And, you know, hopefully this makes him stronger because like him going in, he seemed like he was on some positive vibes.

He didn't seem like worried because he was all on Instagram.

And you never know, Instagram covers up a lot of our emotions.

Yeah, Instagram thinks.

Yeah, you know, it covers up who we really are.

Because Instagram got me thinking I'm broke.

Because everybody living, everybody got colour in it.

Everybody got urgent.

Everybody.

I'm like, well, damn.

What are they doing that I?

Right.

I'm like, well, damn, y'all got it like that.

Right, right.

Everybody happy.

Everybody in a happy relationship, P.

Everybody been married for 10, 15 years.

They got the woman of their dream.

They got the man of their dream.

The family is great.

I'm like, come on now.

Nah.

What you see on there and what you see in person is two different things.

Entirely.

That makeup come off.

We know what's under that makeup.

KG.

You mentioned that you guys had a great relationship and everybody talked about how, you know, how intense he is and how much he talks.

Could you tell when KG was getting on the people's skin?

Yeah.

I mean, dude, KG just is just an intimidating force, just like looking at him.

Like,

man, like his aura.

Yeah.

Like, he got a whole aura about him, like just walking in the room.

And then if he started barking at you and saying stuff, it's just like, you got to understand a lot of the, and he do it to the younger guys too.

A lot of the younger guys looked up to him.

They did.

And it was just like, you know, I didn't heard some stuff like, ooh.

Is that true what he told, what he told

Joe Kim Noah?

Because he's like, hey, man, I admire you, man, the way you play.

He said, man,

get off my D-bad.

Stop him.

I was right there.

I was right there.

He said that for real, Pete.

Man, 100%.

Man, look, dog, Joe Kim, and they made up since then, and we laugh about each other.

Yeah, man.

Joe Kim is cool.

So we was at the free throw line.

He was like, man, I'm sitting right there.

I heard the whole thing.

I'm right there.

He was like, yeah, KG, man, I just want you to know, you know, man i look up to you uh man i had your poster and everything man damn you know i would love to work out something something along that yeah

man get off my d like

i was like damn

no but look no but look it was another one here go another one here go another story that all thing got out It was another player.

He was like, hey,

hey, we had the free throw line again.

Cause, you know, this is what guys like to talk

he's like hey kev man i just want to invite you you know i'm having my wedding this summer uh you know i would like to continue to invite him man

kevin man looked up and said

fuck you

like oh damn

i was like damn kg

I look like,

so the one thing I did learn, dude, don't talk to Kevin during the game.

Talk to him before or after or text him that like y'all over here telling this stuff during the game he is in full gladiator mode right now dude leave him alone right like come on stop that y'all the the the the the situation that he and car mellow got into it the cheerios things have been debunked yeah but how surprised were you so were you that mellow was waiting at the bus and wanted to throw heads at kg yeah i see i didn't know what was going on because i think i was still in the shower or something

You know, before I realized what was going on.

Like, and I didn't even hear what was said to this day, and I've never asked him.

Right.

You know, it's just certain things you just don't even want to know if it's true or not.

You know, and that's one of them for me.

And

it was just like, damn, he must have, he really got under Mello's skin.

And then when it came out that he was talking about something about his wife and all that, and I was like, man, I didn't heard KG talk a lot of shit, but he ain't, I don't think he went there with me.

You know what I'm saying?

Maybe he thought he heard something like that, but I ain't, I ain't never heard nothing to that

to where you like that's crossing the line.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Hey, man, people, wife, man, people don't play about the wives, the girlfriend, kids.

Hey, you stay away from that.

Yeah, stay away from that.

Everything else is fair game.

All right, we're playing the game, it's whatever, but like the personal family and kids and wives, keep that out of it.

Now, I've heard the girlfriend stuff a lot.

The girlfriends open.

Yo, they do.

Yeah, but the girl, if it's just your girlfriend, that's open season.

I done heard stuff like that.

Not from here, but other players.

Like, hey, that's your girl.

Oh, yeah, she was with me.

It's like, you said that?

Like,

I was like, what?

To the other player.

And the player was out his game the rest of the day.

Man, it's some stuff.

I know you heard some stuff, too.

Oh, for sure.

Oh, man.

I might have uttered a few days ago.

Let's go ahead and talk, man.

You know.

like you said, fair game.

Fair game.

Fair game.

Did you smack talk, trash talk to Kobe?

Sometime, but like, like Kobe,

he different.

Like, he just,

like, sometimes his smack talker was breathing hard on you.

Like, he had just had his look and his nose.

He had this thing with his nose and flickering.

Like, he wouldn't say nothing

you know what i shouldn't have said nothing

no but it was one all-star game uh so we beat them in the final so the next year in the all-star game he at the free throw line

and i yelled something from the bench like that's why y'all blew it last year or something i said something foul yeah you You gonna choke like you did in the final last year?

Choke, yeah.

I said, you choke, you gonna choke.

Man, we was about to fight in the all-star game.

For real.

Dude, he came over to me on the bench, walked right dead over there, got in my face.

I had to stand up.

Like, hold on, hold on.

You ain't gonna stand up over me, not coming.

Yeah, yeah.

You ain't for me.

Yeah, so I had to stand up.

Like, what you talking about then?

So I'm thinking, like, dude, like, he, he really, like, it's the all-star game.

I don't know, we about to play.

Like, I'm thinking we about to squad more in the all-star game.

He was, he was hot.

I was like, damn, all right, you know what?

I ain't trying to do all that in the all-star game.

For real.

Man, I was like, damn, I should, you know what?

Let me chill.

You mentioned the battles.

Like, you said, look, I'm not a top 75 player.

I'm not thought of as the player I am if I don't have those battles with LeBron.

When he's at Cleveland, when he's at Miami, he's at Miami.

I'm in

Brooklyn.

You.

A lot of times you guys guarded each other.

That game, that game, I think, was that game six?

I think it was game six.

You had 40, he had 42, or you had 42, he had 40, but you guys were going at it.

You guys were, I mean,

that was,

we game seven, Boston, we both had 40.

Yeah, you guys were going at it.

Yeah.

So how you, what are you trying to do to get him off his game?

Is there a spot you're trying to keep him from getting to?

Are you talking to him like, bro,

this is not your year?

This is not it.

I would talk to LeBron at the meetings at the free throw line again.

I always used to say he going to choke at the line.

Because at the time, he was always missing big free throws.

But

when he's on, you can't stop him.

Because the strategy is to make him shoot jumpers.

But if his jumper is on, if he hitting, then it's over.

Right.

And that's what happened in

that game six in the guard.

Yeah.

Oh, he was hitting everything.

Fadeaways, threes, because the scouting is to go under the pick and roll.

Right.

Let him shoot jumpers.

And if his jumper is on it's nothing you can do because he's on now if you like when you get down you don't want to give him the free jumper because now you got to get up right now he going by you and doing all that man it was just like man you got to pick the the lesser of two evils but if he got them both going it's a long night And he's so strong, man.

I just remember trying to foul him, bro.

You damn near had to WWF him to just stop him from getting the and one.

Like, I remember so many different fouls I gave.

I'm damn near tackling them.

And he's still almost.

So, you see the one with the Mars twin when he's playing Boston, and he grabs him by the back, and LeBron still lays it up and get the ant one.

I've done that so many times to where it's down.

You damn near got to tackle him to stop him from like getting the and one, right?

Especially when he got that full steam ahead.

It's like, man.

You mentioned it's reported that you told him I have the ball to take that shot in game five of the 2000 Eastern Conference finals.

You said that.

That sounds like me.

That sounds like something something about sex.

I'm trying to figure out why you and UD got here.

You and UD

iron y'all's differences out.

I ain't talked to UD.

I really ain't got no beef with UD.

Like, because like, and I said some things,

and the reason I said what I said, because I didn't appreciate what UD said about Russell.

Russell Westbrook.

No, Bill Russell.

Bill Russell, okay.

You know, he said something I thought that was foul.

You know, Russell was passed by then.

Yeah.

You know, and I didn't appreciate that.

And, you know, we got a long rivalry with Boston, Miami, and everything.

And I threw a shot.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, and that's all it was because, like, when we played against each other, it wasn't never no me and him and each other's face.

It was more like me and D.

Wade.

Right.

Or me and Bronx.

You know, so it wasn't nothing like that.

So I said what he said, what he said, and I was like, kind of like defending our culture, our, our, our side.

Because what I said was, I went on Stephen Jackson page

and he got his jersey retired

downis, and Stephen Jackson was like, well deserved.

And I said, I think I said, not given.

It wasn't deserved, it was given.

Right.

Like, something like that.

And it was a shot.

And I probably, and I probably shouldn't have said nothing like that, but I just.

Yeah, you know, damn well, you ain't supposed to go on somebody else's page and

take no shot in nobody.

Because that ain't me.

Usually, I usually don't do that because I tell a person.

You know, and I just felt the need to like say that because of what was said.

I felt it was a disrespect toward Russell.

But like, you know, I ain't got no issue with UD.

But like

if we see each other like face to face, you know, I tell them the same thing.

Like, man, I ain't really got no issue with you.

You know, we grown.

We retired.

We got kids.

We got kids.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

I ain't trying to have no issue with nobody.

Who you think talked more?

Gary Payton or KG?

Gary, bro.

You can't shut Gary up.

That's why I didn't.

Bad GP be out of his mind, man.

You can't shut him up.

Like, once he gets going, man, I'm telling you, man, when GP, you know, we played in Boston with me.

Man, GP, me and GP was going to fight one day.

And I looked up to GP.

Like, I completely looked up to GP.

He from Oakland.

I followed him all the way through.

You know, him and my brother knew each other growing up.

And GP was saying something.

And I was like, man, shut up a little man.

I'll beat y'all out.

He was like, well, do it then.

He was like, he started yelling and he started getting all hyped hyped up.

You know, I was like,

come on.

He got so turnt up.

And I'm like, man, I respect G.

And I'm bigger than him.

I'm younger than him.

I'm like, G, yeah, come on, man.

I had to smile it off.

I had to let him, you know, I'm a G, G, G, my man.

I love G to this day.

That's my big brother, man.

But ain't nobody, ain't nobody talk more than G.

G is not going to stop.

Like, JG, like, KG is going to spit here and there, but G is just gonna keep

on like all night.

It's like, damn, I done turned him on.

A guy that's caught a lot of criticism, I think he does a great job on television.

I work with him on both shows, Undisputed and ESPN.

It's Perk.

Okay.

He played his role.

You know, look, Perk, you know, Perk ain't gonna get you no 20, but he gonna set great screens.

He gonna rebound.

He gonna hard foul you.

But he's caught a lot of criticism.

Russ, he said that, you know, he and Russ had a falling out because he said something about Russ and his wife sent him a letter.

He and Katie have been going back and forth a little bit on Twitter, stuff like that.

What was it like playing with Perk?

Man, I love playing with Perk.

He understood his role.

And, you know, he was our

enforcer.

You know, he was our big man.

And I'll never forget.

When I felt like I knew we would win the series.

I'll tell you this one series.

This was when when Cleveland was the number one seed with Shaq.

We were the four seeds, and we played them in the second round.

And I remember Shaq tried to punk Perk.

Man, Perk stood in Shaq's face like, I'll beat yo.

Like, and I was just like, ooh, okay.

You know, I ain't never seen nobody stand up to Shaq.

Like, I was like, ooh, that gave me confidence.

Like, oh, yeah, we going to whoop them.

You know what I'm saying?

Because Shaq is intimidating.

I don't care how old Shaq is.

I don't care.

He could be 99 years old.

Shaq is intimidating

to this day.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, Perk just like low-key kind of got in Shaq face.

Right.

I'm like, oh, man, we about to get them.

And, you know, but that Perk understood his role.

And that's why I say, if he don't get hurt, I feel like we win two rings.

Did Perk have hot takes in the locker room?

Was Perk a talker back then?

I mean.

He understood the game.

And most of the time, it'd be me and Kevin because we stuck around longer in the locker room.

Me and Kevin, like, we'd be there because we the old man.

They usually leave.

But Perk was always knowledgeable.

He always had his say in the conversation, but they gone.

But then when we retired,

me and him would talk and he'd just be like, man, you know, I'm looking to get into the business.

P, you know, what you think?

You know, and I was like, he's very strong opinionated.

He's always been that.

Perfect.

That's what you got to have.

You got to have an opinion.

He's always very been.

been strong opinionated and that's what you have.

You got to stand on.

You've got to stand on.

That's what you say.

Anybody can say, well, I like both guys.

You know what?

It's really.

No, you got to have an opinion and stand when you, because criticism is going to come.

Eventually, criticism is going to come because you're not going to be on the right side of everybody's opinion.

And you got to stand on it.

And you can't be in this trying to be liked all the time.

Nope.

No.

You know, you got to say what you feel.

What you feel.

And, you know, he's always done that.

Yes.

And so that's why he's great in this

space.

What was it like playing with Shaq?

Because

you didn't get the Magic Shaq.

You didn't get

Laker Shaq.

You didn't even get

Heat Shaq.

You got a guy that had been around.

I think he had gone to Phoenix

and came to you guys.

I think he ended up going to Cleveland last.

But what was it like with Shaq?

Man, that was one of the funnest teams I ever played on.

We didn't win it, but I promise you, Shanna, if Shaq had been healthy, we would have won it that year.

Really?

Dude, go back and look at our record with Shaq.

I think we were like 28 and the three.

Wow.

Like, and then he gets hurt.

Yeah.

Something like that.

Like, we were rolling.

All we needed was his presence.

Because the thing about Shaq, when you drive to the lane, ain't nobody helping off of him.

So the lane wide open.

Right.

And you're not helping off KG.

Right.

I was having a field day with them.

Like, Rondo was having a field day with them too in the lineup.

Double layups.

But then off the court, man, just the laughs we had with him.

And you just know, you know, Shaq, he just, he funny.

He just, he's just a comedian.

He's a big ass kid.

He's a big big old kid.

And then we had Nate Robinson with him.

Oh, man.

That was one of the funniest times because we all kicked it we all went to dinner and this was the one

the only person

shock is the only one that had a bigger aura than kg wow because going you know being in practice in the locker room kg he got the biggest aura then you see another big aura come in there and you're like it's bigger than that one right it's like i'm in the locker room these these are like a big big sun

in the locker room shining i'm like man and then and then we sitting there having story time after practice.

You know, the OGs, we're going to sit there after practice, be chopping it up, talking about whatever, shooting and shit.

So that was one of the funnest times.

Was Shaq still pranking people when he got to Boston?

Was he still pranking?

Man, that is never going to stop.

Man, come on.

Shaq was doing putting stuff in people's shoes.

Yeah.

He was doing.

T-Lou told a story of how he took a dump in Devin George's shoes.

Man, he was doing, man, he was still doing stuff like that.

Him and Nate Robinson, dude, I'm telling you, it was the two,

it was crazy.

But that's who Shaq is, you know.

So it made the locker room fun.

Yeah.

You also have had a teammate, Delante West, who's kind of falling on hard times.

He's dealing with some issues.

Mark Cuban has tried to help him out, but he kind of had a relapse and he's back in it.

What was he like?

What was playing with Delante like?

And did you see anything that would lead you to believe that this could possibly be a fate down the road?

No, I mean, actually, Delante was one of my favorite teammates because I had him, young Delante.

You know, just having him and Tony Allen together was like,

man, you wouldn't believe it.

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They was like the good friends on the team and they was my youngins.

And Delante was really good, dog.

But just to like

be around him every day, his competitive spirit, and to know where he came from.

And I knew when he was in the league, he needed medication.

It was our, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was, it was like when he was playing for us, he needed medication then.

And I didn't know it would turn into what we see today, but we knew he had like, uh, I don't know if it's a bipolar disorder or something like that.

I think he was diagnosed with to where you know, Danny would like talk to him and make sure, try to make sure he take his meds and all that.

Because, like, you saw a couple episodes, like to where he go off, and you know, he had a couple fights in the locker room, but you know, you didn't think it'd just turn into like full-on, just

like he just had an episode.

Yes, yes, like, and you know, it just goes to show you how difficult it is to deal with

mental health.

I have two nephews, and I have a chance to see it firsthand, Shannon, with schizophrenia is like

it's the worst thing that

you can have for a family to deal with every day because every day is new and it's different and you don't know what can happen.

You know, and you know, I just encourage people to just, if you're dealing with this in your family and the people around you,

you know, just show the love and make sure that you can give the support that you can give because it's a real thing.

And it can damage, it can break a family apart.

Oh, for sure.

Absolutely.

You know,

I've seen, you know, that firsthand.

And, you know, you try to pray and you try to.

not wish that upon people, but it's just, it's difficult.

And like I said, it can break families apart.

Wow.

LeBron,

heading into year 23, year 22 averaged almost 25 points a game, eight rebounds a game, eight sisters a game, shot over 50% from the floor, shot 38% from the three, shot one of his career highs from the free throw line.

You said you believed 23 would be his last season.

You still believe 23 is his last season?

Is that this year?

Yeah.

Yeah, I think this will be his last season.

You know, I mean,

he's accomplished so much.

He's played so long.

And I truly believe that now that you've had the opportunity, like you've done something that's never been done in the game multiple times.

Right.

And the one ultimate thing that's, there's two things that's never going to happen while I'm alive.

Nobody's going to break his scoring record and no other player will play with their son.

Right.

I don't believe that those two things will happen.

I think like there has to be.

Unless you have a son in high school.

Yeah, right, right.

And I just have to believe that he has a sense of fulfillment now.

That, you know, he's done it all and accomplished so much.

And

now he's built up such a great off-the-court presence with his businesses and things of that nature that that's going to be his next challenge in growing that and becoming the best in that field.

And, you know, because I know it eats at him every year he doesn't win a championship.

And I know he loves the game, but I truly believe that

you don't believe KD can break his scoring record

KD's at almost 30,000 where's LeBron at 50 50 42 regular season points so no and so much things have to go right he has to be healthy for like the next 10 years I think because I mean he has to play he has to play basically at least seven years and play all the games and play the game yeah all of them no no injuries no sit outs and LeBron's playing this year I

I think it's really hard because normally guys retire when they can't play at the level they're accustomed to.

You averaging 25 points of a game, P with eight and eight.

It's hard to walk away.

And you make it now.

It's different because we've never seen LeBron in the final year of his contract.

Unless LeBron really wants to be in the final year of his contract.

It's reported that the Lakers.

Like, nah, we're going to wait and see how this year turns out.

So I don't think LeBron goes.

I don't think he really wants to go anywhere else.

He's building a compound here in LA.

He loves L.A.

He came to LA.

They didn't recruit him.

He came to them.

It's like winning the lot.

I ain't even played a lottery, but I won.

Magic ain't doing that.

He showed up at, he and Rich Paul showed up at Magic's house.

That's going to be a hard, that's going to be a hard decision.

This is all he knows.

Over half this man's life has been in the NBA.

Think about it.

He's going to be 41.

This will be two years.

So since he was 18, all he knows is the NBA.

But I have to believe that he doesn't want to play just to play.

True.

You know, he wants to win.

Like he wants to win a championship.

And

if there's a situation to where if the Lakers lose the first round

or how they lose.

Well, he should want to go.

If you lose in the first round with Luca

and Austin Reeves and what you have, I get it.

You don't have no history.

You don't got no great big man.

But with Luke and LeBron, you should never lose in the first round.

Right.

That in and of itself, you should never lose in a first round.

Yep.

So I believe it's all going to depend.

I don't think he'll announce it,

but I think barn circumstances on how they go out this year, he'll make that decision.

You.

Your LeBron mom almost beat you up for filing that man hard.

That was what LeBron, like, LeBron

told Glow to Glo, sit down.

Glow tried to get, hey, Glo, come on, Mama.

You know we love you.

Come on, mama.

Hey, why are you trying to come?

I'm just trying to just not let him make the layup, mama.

I wouldn't try to hurt him.

I ain't never tried to hurt him.

You guys have played.

You guys have played a lot.

Yeah, we played.

LeBron has beat you 35 times.

You beat him 34 times.

Yes.

You won't go back and get tie to stay up.

You're going to try to stay up

with a dagger three.

I'll in the corner.

I ain't going to let him tie this up.

Damn, I'm trying to think.

What was the last game?

The last game was probably in Brooklyn.

Yeah.

Or Washington.

Washington.

Oh, this is regular season, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Damn.

That close.

What if you guys were the same age?

What if you came in?

Because you came in 98.

LeBron came in 03.

If you guys were like.

If we were the same age, I don't believe he would have had four championships.

He wouldn't have got him.

You kept him for four?

He wouldn't have got those two in Miami.

Because

I got to believe if we're the same age and I could offset him.

And that would have been good enough.

Right.

You know, like, if he had got 40 in game six and we the same, I would probably got 40 and offset him.

Right.

You know, I was at an older age then, a lot of miles and stuff.

And it was hard for me to keep up with him.

I ain't going to lie.

I'll I'll be looking at that tape shed and I'm like,

like, damn.

I couldn't even move.

Like,

younger, I could have moved with him.

But I'm like,

because you don't put in Brooklyn, you say you got it.

You're gonna DM up in Brooklyn.

I don't know what you was on that day.

Your mind and body say two different things.

Your mind was saying one thing.

That body said, no, I ain't got it.

You got him.

You know, I thought I did.

Oh, man.

I ain't gonna lie.

That's right.

You were very outspoken about KD going to the Warriors.

You say it's not so much that they have the ability to go.

LeBron and KD had the ability to go wherever they wanted.

But it was KD going to a team that won 73 games.

They have the MVP and they had just lost the finals.

Do you believe that KD would have been

judged differently had he gone somewhere else and helped that team win a championship as opposed to the Warriors?

Yeah, of course he would have got judged differently because the way, and it's the same thing with Ray.

We just lost to Miami, then you joined him.

Right.

KD, you just lost to go to state who you should have beat.

Right.

Because you the up 3-1.

You was up three and you joined him.

And so that's why, that's where the criticism come in because it was just like, damn, KD, you good enough to beat them.

Right.

Like, we feel like that's, cause that's how the old school stars won.

We like, man, I'm going to get over the hump.

I'm going to take my lumps.

Take my lumps of lumps.

And people just thought, felt like he took the easy way out.

Okay.

And that's all.

But like,

you know, I get it because we live in a culture to where we're going to be.

Rings now.

Rings are everything now.

He judged off your championship.

So he said, let me get that out the way.

Yep.

So now what y'all going to talk about.

Right.

And so I get it.

You know, it's more understandable now because I come from the old school and I feel like, man, you got to, you got to get it the hard way sometimes.

You got to take your lumps.

And maybe, hey, and maybe you don't get over the hump.

Yeah.

Charles Barkley and Carl Malone, maybe you don't get over the hump.

But what you don't do is,

I look at it like this.

He paid his debt to society.

He paid his debt to

the Thunder.

His contract was up.

I'm trying to think, I don't know if he could have gone.

Where could he have gone and won a championship?

If you look at the landscape, if you go back, if you can remember, if you go back and look at the landscape, where is he going?

If he goes to the Knicks,

he's not beating Kyrie and Kevin Love and Braun in Cleveland.

If he goes anywhere else, they're not going to beat the Warriors.

He got to go back to OKC.

He's staying OKC.

Okay, okay.

You got to stay right.

You went to the finals with that team.

Right.

And you up 3-1 against it.

This was supposed to be the rivalry that we should have saw the next five, six years to where one of these two teams is going to go to the finals every year.

Right.

You know, you stay there.

You got the team.

Yeah.

But I think a lot of that had to do with Russ.

Yeah.

You know, I think they had they were bumping him.

Yeah.

And it looked like it on the court

because you felt like Russ should have got him the ball more, but Russ felt like I'm the man.

Right.

You know.

And then, you know, it's hard to argue because the next year he goes to win the MVP and averages triple-double.

So it's hard to say that he couldn't be the man.

He, and that's the hardest thing.

Right.

Is that Shaq and Kobe should have won more championships together.

Right.

But Kobe like, I'm the man.

And Shaq like, nah, you little bro.

He said, no, not no more.

Damn.

Because just imagine,

the perfect situation is Kareem and Magic.

If that magic was fine, Cap, what do you want the ball?

Gotcha.

Right.

It's hard when one guy believes that he can be the man and he should be the man.

Magic knew he could be, because Magic, because when Pat Riley challenged him and said, I need you to score more, Magic went out and scored more averaged over 20 and won the MVP.

Right.

But he's like,

Magic tells the story that when Cap, when Pat Riley told him that he needed the scoreboard, he's like, you run that by Cap?

Wow.

Hey, I need you to clear that up with Cap.

Right.

But damn, that was Magic's game was passing.

You know, when you got two guys who they game and scoring, then you got to say who's going to

take the lesser role in all of this.

It's hard because the way we live in a society, we got to determine credit.

Somebody, it ain't no 50-50.

No.

Truth.

We got to get somebody to need 51.

We got to get somebody 49.

We got to be 60-40.

We got to be 70-30.

Ain't no 50-50.

So whose team is it?

Right.

Kobe got tired of hearing he Batman.

I mean, he got, he robbing.

Right.

That he riding Shaq's coattails.

He was chasing something else.

Yes.

He was chasing something else.

He knew that in order for him to become, he couldn't, he can't.

Yes, he had the mama name with Shaq.

But in order for us to look at him differently, he had to do this without Shaq.

We're never going to look at him if he's doing all the.

He won five championships with Shaq.

We're not looking at Kobe the same as we look at him now.

100%.

Yeah, he was on a mission.

He knew that he had to get under that shadow.

He had to.

Damn.

You just, it's a lot of just in the histories of sports, it's a lot of what-ifs.

Damn.

And plus, we got to assign credit to somebody.

Yeah.

We got to sign.

We see this in football with Coach Belichick and Tom Brady.

Who gets the most credit?

Right.

Well, when Tom left, Tom went and got a championship with New Inc, with Tampa.

Coach Belichick went to the playoffs, and then two years of mediocrity, he's the coach at UNC.

We look at the 49ers, we look at Bill Walsh, we look at Joe Montana.

Coach Walsh retired.

Joe wins another one with Tom, with Sefert, George Seifert.

So we can say, so now we can definitively say, okay, it was him.

Right.

We got to be able to determine who the reason why we win to these championships through.

That's just the way we're we're wired.

That's the way.

It's not good enough.

Right.

Shaq and Kobe.

Nah, nah, nope.

But Shaq was so dominant.

You bet.

You had to see it.

People don't realize.

Because people look at Shaq now and they see him.

He's having fun.

People just don't realize.

You couldn't do nothing with it.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Just imagine if they called foul.

Shaq would shoot like 50 free throws a game if they called.

They called every foul.

Man, come on.

Damn, you couldn't do nothing with the dick.

You couldn't.

People don't realize just how athletic, considering his size,

considering his agility.

People don't realize how good.

People think, oh, Joe, Joe LB, Joe LB couldn't move like Shaq.

Yo, when Shaq, when Shaq,

Orlando Shaq, and first three years of LA Shaq,

there wasn't a better athlete on the planet.

No.

Yep.

He's 7-1.

He's 335, 30 pounds, and he can move like a 6'7 guy that's 200 pounds.

Yep.

Yep.

You had to see it.

Like I said, some things, like you had to see Barry Sanders play in person to really appreciate what he was doing.

You had to see Jerry Rice.

You had to see Prime.

Some things you just have to see in person.

So why is it you don't think that Jordan is better than LeBron?

You saw him both in Japan.

I did.

I saw him in person.

go James, man.

Come on.

Come on, Shadda.

I mean, because you think about it.

Come on.

Because he could do more.

He could rebound better.

So what do we go off of, dude?

Because this is the argument that I have today.

Like,

you know,

like, better player is one thing.

Yes.

Like, is he just like, let's take away all the accolades?

Yeah.

Like, LeBron

is probably the greatest player of the game, right?

But it's unfortunate that we got to add the accolades.

We have to add

team selections.

So, we're going to put those like

20 all-NBA selections in there?

21 all-NBA selections?

Yeah, you can do that.

We're going to put it in there.

We're going to put that in there.

We're going to put those 20 dollars in there.

No, no, no, no, no, we're not going to put those in there.

Oh, okay.

We're not going to do accolades.

This is what we're going to do.

Okay, we're going to do it.

We're going to take

the 15 years or 13 years Jordan played, and let's match him up with the 15 years.

My guy's still playing.

Huh?

My guy's still playing.

You can't say this guy, if this guy was.

So we're crediting longevity as a reason.

You make it seem like LeBron just out there.

No, he's not out there, but I'm still

at the peak of your superpowers.

Did you see Jordan in Washington?

I've never seen Jordan disappoint in a big moment.

Did you see Jordan in Washington?

Yeah, I played against Jordan in Washington.

Yeah.

That was like a farewell tour.

do my guy still going at 23.

Ain't no farewell, ain't no telling witness to me.

Ain't no witness, ain't no telling.

We got a book that's a five-minute page, it ain't DNA.

We're at DNA, Paul.

Oh, man, you ain't lying.

I mean, that's nothing's ever going.

You're not going to do that.

Nobody's going to do what he's doing ever again.

I mean, think about those points.

Truth.

But is this a statistical thing?

Then if it was, then why don't we say Kareem was the greatest before LeBron?

But see, that was the, that was but here's the thing because people say championships but they crowned jordan as the greatest players when he had none

if you go back and look at the late 80s the early the late 80s they crowned him as the best player in the league they said he was the greatest player that we'd ever seen and he had no championships they didn't call him the goat though but that we uh uh first of all they didn't call him the goat

They said he was the greatest player we've ever seen.

Yes.

Just like when Barry Sanders was there, that's the greatest running back we've ever seen.

Yes, but they said running back.

He wasn't the goat.

They didn't say he's the greatest player.

They said Jordan was the greatest player we had ever seen, and he had no championships.

Yeah, but they didn't say he's the goat.

There's a difference between greatest player and the goat.

But how do you like that?

Like Tom Brady, like Tom Brady, when we just look at Tom, like he's like, he's the GOAT, right?

Yeah.

But like when you look at him compared to like Rodgers and Mahomes, if you just watch him,

like he don't look better than them.

Right.

But see, for me, I mean, look, I think, Tom, it's because the quarterback is so, so damn important.

But I can make a

case that L.T.

or Jerry Rice is the greatest players of all time.

But they're not as important as the quarterback because he touches the ball.

LeBron, Jordan was never asked to do what LeBron has been asked to do.

Jordan had a specific task.

LeBron, they asked LeBron, said, LeBron, we need you to give us 27.

We need you to give us 10.

And we need you to give us 10.

And we need you to do that every night.

And in the meantime, we still need you to guard the best player.

All right, I will say this.

LeBron

has, he has the greatest of all time influence on winning.

Okay.

Like,

from day one, you put him on this team, they're a 30.

They're a better team than what DEP is not on it.

Well, you can say that about Jordan, but just like his influence on winning is greater than Jordan.

Okay.

Because you look at the teams he took to the finals, you know, it's like, damn, you dragged them.

Oh, you dragged them to the finals.

That 2018 team ain't got no business in the finals.

Then you kind of erase that because then you'd be like, damn, how did you lose when you had this?

I think if you think about it, the only thing, the only team, the only time that I think LeBron really should have won the championship

was against the Dallas Mavericks.

He wasn't favored in any other championship, really.

Does the journey matter

how you win?

Does that matter?

It does to me.

It matters, right?

It does.

Like, because if you're saying Kobe became something different because he stuck it out with the Lakers and won without Shaq, that matters.

That's elevated Kobe.

Well, see, if they could have got him pieces, do you think Kobe wins if he doesn't get power?

If they don't get metal, Powell is not a top 75 player.

But I'm saying if they don't get him.

No, they don't.

LeBron couldn't get nobody to come to Cleveland.

Bro, he took.

Think about it.

He got Timothy Marsgoff 75 million.

He had Della Dover.

Della Dova is your starting partner.

He's starting up there.

See, that's my point.

That's what he was up against.

Just imagine if Jerry West was his GM.

He would have knew what pieces to put around LeBron.

But that's what makes the journey matter.

Like, when you go through the rough times, like.

Like, me and Cole, like we talked about earlier, we were like, oh, we going,

we, you know, the journey's over, but he stuck it out.

Yeah.

He, and that meant something for him to stay a Laker and wait for them to see if they were gonna do something.

Right.

He never ran.

LeBron raided.

LeBron waited.

What year was it?

Yeah, like year seven.

He just realized.

What year did Jordan win?

Seven or eight?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But here's the thing.

They got him Scotty Pippen.

They got him whole grain.

Scotty became something.

You don't know Scotty.

They didn't go get Scotty Pippen.

They drafted well.

That's what I'm saying.

They weren't drafting well, though.

Truth.

But they were trying to do everything to get him.

They got Ben Wallace, Shaq, Antoine.

They was trying.

But Ben Wallace was my age.

Yeah, I mean.

Shaq was my age.

But you think that, think about this.

The great players, people always gravitate towards the great players.

Yes.

The good role players gravitate.

Yeah, but they ain't going to Cleveland to gravitate towards them.

Why not?

People.

Because I ain't tried to go to Cleveland.

Milwaukee won.

Yeah.

Denver won.

I'll tell you what.

Let me ask you this.

You think Giannis is going to finish his career in Milwaukee?

I mean, in the landscape we are today, it's not hard to say that somebody's going to finish a career with one team.

Yeah.

Because he wants to win.

And, you know, once you get a taste of that winning truth.

Yeah.

But whose journey was better, Jordan's?

Or LeBron's?

You think it's harder to win as many championships as Jordan did with one team or win the championships that he's won like LeBron on multiple teams?

It's hard to win, period.

Yeah, oh, for sure.

We've agreed to that.

Yeah, we're going to agree with that.

But now,

if

I go say, all right, I want to go over here, but then I get the handpick,

what part of the journey is that?

That has to mean something.

That has to mean like, Jordan didn't say pick Pippin.

Did he?

Right.

They got him on a hinge that's saying, hey, maybe he become something.

Right.

You know, like, the journey has to, like, mean something.

And, you know, it doesn't take away from LeBron's ability.

Right.

Like, he's, like, like, just take away all everybody.

Take away everybody's championships.

LeBron has the greatest ability of any basketball player ever, like, skill watch.

Right.

Like, I mean, dude, he's the scoring champ.

He can pass like Magic.

He can rebound like Robin.

I mean, he can do

it.

He can do it all.

Like, if I'm building a basketball player, I want to build LeBron, like an athletic player.

No player has been able to do more.

But the mental fortitude is what we always questioned about him.

Well, just let me ask you a question.

Let's just say for the sake of argument, LeBron James would have had a historically great coach.

Say he had a Dean Smith in college for three years, and then he get a Phil Jackson for the better part of his career.

What coach did you believe that LeBron James is going to have that's going to go to the Hall of Fame?

Maybe Spolstra?

Spolstra will go to the Hall of Fame.

Tylu will go to the Hall of Fame.

Let's see who he with right now.

J.J.

Redding.

Oh, J.J.

Redding.

Mike Brown.

Bogle.

But who made who?

Who made who?

Did Phil make Jordan?

All I know is Phil left somewhere else and went and won a championship.

But did Phil make Jordan?

I'm just asking you a question.

Did Healy tell me the coach?

Tell me the coach that's won a championship after they left LeBron.

Probably nobody.

Why that?

Because LeBron elevated the coach.

Right?

Yeah.

So did Jordan.

Phil won five championships after he left Jordan.

I mean, come on.

You inherited Kobe and Shaq.

I just said what he did.

You inherited.

That's like right now, if you inherit, like,

who ain't won a championship of a great player in the league right now?

Vogo inherited, Vogo inherited,

didn't he have KD and Book?

Oh, Vogo won with Bron.

Yes.

But didn't he get Book and wasn't he in Phoenix?

Yeah, that was trash.

Oh, God, my goodness.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm not taking nothing away, LeBron.

I think the coach.

I think me profit.

I give more credit to the player than the coach, though.

Do you?

Yeah.

Yep.

I can see that.

I give way in the NBA.

Yeah.

NFL is coaching.

NBA is the player.

You know that.

One player can change your fortune in the NBA.

It's different in the NBA.

I agree.

You know what I'm saying?

I definitely agree with that.

Let me ask you this.

Clippers, you go to the Clippers.

You said that you hated that you demanded to trade to leave Boston.

If you had it to do over again, you finish your whole career in Boston, even though you don't win another championship.

Because it seems like once you won, you start trade.

You still, you know, that high.

That high of winning a championship is like they say it's called chasing the dragon.

So you never get that high that you initially felt the first time you did it, but you chase it.

Yeah.

So you won it in Boston.

Let me go to Brooklyn.

Yeah, maybe.

Let me go to the Clippers.

Let me go to the Wizards.

You chasing that.

You wish you had, like, you know what?

If I'm going to win another one, it's going to be here in Boston.

Yeah.

I wish I could have stayed there my whole career.

Yeah, I really do.

But I'm not mad at my path because I had a chance to be an influence on some other young teams.

Yeah.

You know, and I enjoyed that experience.

I really did.

Like, just because being in one place your whole career is great.

Yeah.

But to go to Brooklyn and experience the big city.

You know, then go to Washington to play with these young two all-stars and give them some game.

Yeah.

And then to reunite with Doc at home to finish it out.

Like, I love the way I ended it, actually.

Even though I would have loved to end in Boston,

I loved having that experience on the way out the way I did it.

Because, like, even then being back home in LA, it was like, it gave me a chance to retire and really kind of like put my feet down and ease into retirement in a smooth way.

Right.

Because I hadn't already had it figured out because I'm home.

I have my house here, my kids, everything.

I retired.

I jumped into sports,

analyst media and it was a good transition for me

how difficult was it for the clippers because bro you're a 10-time all-star you're finals mvp you're an all-NBA selections and you coming off the bench

you know it's crazy I just called game in Washington too

and dog dog put me on the bench I was hot I was like, I just, I could have stayed in Washington

and started.

Like, I was just just like i had it it was like

when you get to that level and i understood what russ felt in la now russell westbrook yes this is my first time ever coming off the bench yeah it was like a shock i was just like damn it was just like hold on like you got to see who i'm coming off the bench for

because they started land stevens or wasn't it it was it was uh

It was Wesley Johnson.

Oh.

And I was like, you know, it ain't a knock on Wesley, but I think I'm still better.

It was a knock on Wesley.

You said it.

i think i'm still better than him and i was just like you know it got to the point to where i just had to be like but you was coming out the bit you coming in the cleanup time they be like three four minutes in the game truth and they put you in at some point but then it got to the point i wasn't playing for at all at all

i was like man you know i have to explain did you talk to jock

man we had little conversations but then it was just like it got to the point to where I understood my world right now.

Yeah.

I'm at the end.

This is when the light.

The light comes off.

This is it for me.

And then I was like, Cause Sam Cassell is on the staff, right?

So, you know, practices going.

I'm on the sideline.

I get to practice early workouts.

So he's like, Pete, get in there and get some reps.

I looked at Sam.

I said, Sam,

in your last year, did I bother you?

I said, get away from me.

Because Because he was with us in this last year.

Yeah, man.

I remember.

He said, what did he get in?

I looked at him, like, boy, I was on the sideline chilling.

Hey, bother you, man.

I got here early, got my workout in.

Now I'm watching practice.

Everybody remember the viral clip.

You going back and forth with Draymond.

Draymond, I mean, it's quiet in Draymond.

Hey,

you thought you was going to get that COVID treatment.

They don't love you like that, man.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what's crazy?

I didn't hear him say that.

So you didn't hear him say?

No, I'm on the bench and I'm talking to Draymond because, look, Golden State Warriors was like big brother to the Clippers.

And I'm coming over there like, you know, I'm the OG.

Like, hold on, y'all ain't about to be punking this while I'm over here.

And I'm like, Blake, you know, I'm trying to put a battery in Blake back.

You know, because Draymond, he, you know, he going to yeah.

man, he going, he's trying to go at Blake.

But Blake, an all-star too, now,

and he was like, shut up, you ain't Kobe.

I guess I didn't hear it until after the game because he said it under the basket where the mic picked it up.

So everybody on TV heard it.

But like in them arenas, it's hard to hear.

Right.

So I didn't even, I couldn't even hear it when he first said it.

Right.

I didn't know until I got into the locker room and Twitter going off and everybody said everything.

It's going crazy.

It's going crazy because, you know, everybody thinking I'm just ignoring him, but I'm just kind of like,

I didn't hear him.

Right.

And so, you know, it was funny.

I give it to Draymond.

He's one of the all-time trash talkers.

He got me.

He got me.

Oh, baby, babe.

You also, bad, you've been going viral because you said you better than D-Wade.

I did say that.

Yeah.

But you know what, Shannon, that's what made me who I am.

You already believe that, too.

Yeah.

That's what gave me my.

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Listen to High Key, a bold, joyful, and unfiltered culture podcast coming at you every Friday.

You better listen.

What I'm really high-key obsessed with is Sinners.

I just saw it.

It's so good.

It's so good.

It is one of the best horror movies in a good minute, and I like it because it was allowing me to get into arguments with strangers on the street being like, oh, so you didn't like this, but you like the substance, and then you made a friend exactly.

And I made a friend who blocked me.

I'm actually a person that avoids horror, and the way that I was the loudest in my theater, and I don't even think that was like all the way as scary as it could have been.

Someone came over to my house and they like asked to come in.

I said, What do you mean?

Excuse me?

Yeah, don't play with that.

And it was a white person.

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I edge.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

You know, I never cared about what people thought of me or other people's opinion.

When I step on the court, I'm better than all of y'all.

Right.

You know, and that's what made me who I am.

And I'm going to work toward it.

You got to believe that, though.

You know what I'm saying?

And so I'm never, I'm never going to, like, I'm retired now and I can change up, whatever.

And I knew I was retired then when I said it, but like, that's who I was.

And that was my age.

I felt like every time I stepped on the court, I was the best player.

And that's why I made

the accolades I made.

Right.

Why didn't it work out with Kyrie and the Clipper and the Celtics?

Man, I don't know, man, because I thought, you know, in the preseason, I was at that that game, at the practice.

He said, I'm going to be a clipper for life.

I mean,

a Celtic for life, and I'm going to re-sign.

And,

man, but, you know, Kyrie different.

You know, he think on a whole different level.

Yeah, he's a whole different level.

He on a whole different wave.

He's on the whole level wavelength for a whole different stratosphere.

And I thought that could be something that was going to work out.

They can win a championship with him.

But,

you know, Kyrie.

You know, it didn't work out with him and Bron.

It didn't work out with him and KD in KD in Brooklyn.

It didn't hurt to work out.

you know, so you never know what Kyrie is thinking.

Right.

We would have loved to have him in Boston for all them years, but it worked out.

You know, it allowed Jason and Jalen to grow on their own because, you know, Kyrie was the OG.

And, you know, but everything happens for a reason.

What do you expect from the Clippers?

They got Chris Paul.

They got Bradley Bill.

They got James Harden.

Kawhi seems to be healthy.

He worked out for like a month after the season.

Talking to T.

Lou.

T.

Lou said he wanted to make sure his body, he missed half of the season last year, but he looked good, and they're a different team when he plays.

What do you expect from the Clippers with Kyrie,

excuse me, with Kawhi being healthy and all the additions?

Man, I just think, I think they'll be competitive, but I just think their time has kind of passed.

Yeah.

You know, they're older.

James Harden is older.

Kawhi is older, dealt with so many surgeries, and Bill is older.

It's just like, this is a young man's game.

You know, and these young teams is

good.

OKC, Minnesota, and you still got Denver over there.

I think they'll be competitive and Tylu's a great coach and y'all got talent, but them is a lot of big names.

And we all know that older big names usually don't win.

They don't win.

And so

they'll be good.

They may be better than the Lakers, maybe.

But I don't see it.

I don't see it.

John Wall called it a career.

Are you surprised that how soon it ended for him?

Man, John had a lot of lengthy injuries.

You know, sometimes that can take a toll on you mentally.

You know, then I think he lost his mom.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, he's made a lot of money.

Yeah.

You know, in this game.

And, you know, he probably didn't accomplish all the things he wanted to accomplish.

But, man, he had a great career.

He had an unbelievable career.

He had a great career.

He's been an all-star.

He was the number one pick, man.

My shout out to the young fella.

I'm glad I had to spend a year with him, give him some game.

You know, and I text him from time to time, hit him up, and just be like, you know, how you doing, young fella?

And, you know,

he has nothing to hold his head down.

And I know it didn't end the way he wanted it to end.

Correct.

And we all.

We all want that storybook hit it, though.

Yeah, we all want the storybook in, but sometimes it don't go that way.

I mean, you know what?

He had a storybook.

Coming from where he came from and

made hundreds of millions.

Why is that on a storybook, Shannon?

Yeah, you're right.

We always got to judge on championships and all that.

Like what?

Or retiring on our terms.

Yeah, like, no, I mean, he's made hundreds of millions of dollars.

He's played in the NBA.

He was the number one pick.

He got a storybook, Life.

Yes.

How about that?

How about that?

You're right.

You walked to work 20 miles in a bathrobe.

The Knicks.

You really, you was convinced the Knicks were going to lose to the Celsius World.

Man, oh, I was sick.

I was convinced.

I hate the Knicks.

And they hate me.

They hate me.

You know, that's a Boston, New York thing, man.

And I know I put my foot in my mouth.

I said that on national television.

And

to this day, I don't regret it.

And people everywhere I go say, did you really walk?

You saw it.

You saw me in my room walk inside the road.

You saw it.

You saw it.

You got a new show.

Truth After Dark.

Yeah.

Where it seems you're talking, you giving advice about relationships.

And people seem to don't want to take advice from anybody that's not married, that's not in a relationship for 20 plus years, been stable.

Why do you feel you're one of the best to give advice on relationships?

I mean, because I've seen all sides of a relationship.

You know what I'm saying?

I've been married in long-term relationships for 10 plus years, a couple of them.

I've had

kids.

I've had long-term girlfriends.

I've been on both sides, so I can speak on it.

Like, Like, it's like you being in the NFL.

You can speak on it.

Yes.

You're like, I can speak on being married.

If I'm not married now, I can speak on it.

Right.

Because I was married for a long time.

Yeah.

You know, and I've been engaged and I've had girlfriends.

And like, I just, you know, I see my perspective the way I see it.

And it ain't for everybody.

Right.

You know, I mean, I try to speak for everybody, but, you know, everybody different.

Right.

I just go off a lot of my experience, Shannon, and you can take it how you want it.

Right.

You know, but like i've i've seen it all and even if i didn't experience i've saw other people yeah experience and i learned from them and

that's why i feel like i'm more than qualified right to give you know a relationship advice

you once said that marriage is for poor people it offers no advantage to a man yes

So under that premise, would you get married again?

That's a good question, man.

Like,

yeah, I'll get married again because I'm getting old.

So you want a hospice wife.

You want somebody to take.

Yeah.

I'm getting old, shit.

Yeah, I'll get married again.

I mean, I mean, it's just, it just, I hear too many of the horror stories, like, especially for,

like I said, old people and poor people.

Like, think about a man, successful, rich man.

Like, I hate seeing stories like she got 70% of his wealth.

Right.

And she got the kids.

Right.

And she, like, exactly.

She feel like you stripped a man down of his dignity.

Yeah.

Like, I hate seeing them stories.

Man, it just drives me nuts.

And it's too many of them.

Right.

And the percentages ain't in her favor.

Right.

As successful,

not only black, just people in that upper tax bracket.

It's just like,

no advantage for us.

And I'm not saying don't do it.

Just, you know, wait till you get old

or you broke.

Did you and your wife grow apart because you had, like you said, you'd been married 10 plus years.

You got kids.

Yeah.

How did you come to the conclusion?

You're like, you know what, babe,

we need to part ways.

Man, you know, I think it happens over time.

It wasn't like a sit-down, one sit-down.

Yeah, yo,

no, no, no.

There's a continuation.

You know, and it happened in retirement.

And a lot of players, you know, get divorced in retirement.

Yeah.

And it's just like, it's a whole new dynamic that happens.

You whole dynamics.

Yeah, because like it's cool when you in and out.

You miss each other.

You're going through whatever you're going through and you can deal with it.

And, you know, she gets to get on, go to the game, highlight herself.

She's in the limelight still, too.

But then the lights cut off.

And now you coming home telling the kids to do this and changing the whole family dynamic.

Yes.

And it causes a riff.

You know what I'm saying?

And it just like, it causes like, like, you start side-eye and looking at each other like, nah, I wouldn't allow this if I was home all the time.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

And then it just causes a divide.

And I just think like,

kind of like, that's what happened.

Yeah.

You know, the divide and the communication wasn't there in my situation.

And,

you know, and it happens to a lot of us.

Yeah.

You know, it's hard to make that adjustment after you done playing.

Be home all the time.

And then now you home all the time.

Then you just get up and be like, I need to go somewhere.

Right.

And now y'all, you arguing because you gotta why you, why you go, you ain't got, you ain't got no practice.

Yeah, you ain't got no

like now you because you just so antsy.

You used to traveling every week.

You used to leave it.

Every week, you just like, I don't know how to sit down.

Right.

And then now that's something.

That's a conflict.

That's a conflict.

And, you know, if I had it to do all over again,

what I know now, I would have been probably more sensitive to their needs instead of being selfish.

You know what I'm saying?

It was selfish.

Well, you got to be selfish to be great.

Yeah, and I think

you hear LeBron when LeBron talks.

Mm-hmm.

LeBron says, I denied a faith.

And the first thing he says is family.

Because when you, when you, what you and I did,

because family is the closest.

That's why we mentioned them first is that we apologize to them for being selfish.

In order to be great, you got to be selfish.

Because you're going to miss recitals.

You're going to miss certain things.

You're going to miss miss this because guess what?

Oh, I can't go play in the game because I have my daughter's recital.

Well, I can't do to celebrate my anniversary because I got to miss this game.

So, because I got to do my wife's anniversary.

So, you become selfish.

The greater the player, the more selfish he or she is.

Right.

I've said this.

I said, I've took those traits that made me who I am and it affected my man.

You take it in a relationship, but it ruined it.

Yep, it affected the relationship.

Yes.

Because now you're seeing it all the time when you're home.

Yes.

Selfishness, doing what you want to just, just so many things.

And like, you just...

And they might let it be.

They'll let it slide.

When you got a basketball, when you play basketball, you play football, you play a professional sport or you have a business.

But when you retire and says, oh, I want to spend more time with the family.

Yeah.

That ain't what you were.

Man, you ain't been there in 20 years.

Right.

And then you will come in there and think she's going to let you change everything and how the apparatus, how this is how the system works.

Ain't going to happen.

I didn't know what the system was.

I tried to come in there and change it.

So, but you know, to this day, you know, everybody cool.

Yeah, that's great.

You know, kids is where everybody gets along.

So, you know, like it's an experience.

Yes.

You know, and you go through and you learn from it and you move on.

Did you see the story where

the guy sent the young lady $200 and she sent it back?

She sent it back to him.

What?

Say because she knows her worth.

Was it 200 or 2,000?

I know my worth.

If a girl sent me $2,000, it was $20,000, wasn't it?

It was $2,000.

$2,000?

Yes.

He sent her $2,000.

She said, she says, I know my worth.

We've been dealing with each other for an extremely long period of time.

She sent it back to him.

That's a red flag, Shannon.

Anybody can use two racks.

I'll take two racks right now.

I can use two racks.

I mean, damn, like, what you mean?

Like, Like, you, like, girls like that,

you stay away from them because, like, oh, you must used to be dealing with, who you dealing with?

Yes.

Who you dealing with?

That's doing that.

I don't want somebody to throw, well, such and such used to do this for me.

Well, he not doing it no more, so why he stopped doing it?

Right.

You telling me who used to do it.

I want to know why he stopped.

Right.

That's the question right there.

That's the question.

They quick to throw that up in your face, though, P.

Man, that's why I be trying to tell them, look, you got to,

it's messed up right now shan

it's messed up

the game is messed up you've been giving some good advice you told us that look a hardworking man that's building something leave them pretty girls alone get you a five get you a solid six

keep it read you get you a five solid six get somebody that's humble yeah that don't require all this because nine tens that's a lot of maintenance that's a lot of upkeep and see and i and i and i always have to go back i'm not gonna tell her she a five or six right like we all know

i'm gonna let her give her a nine yeah yeah yeah but you know the public know you a five or six look but i'm gonna make you feel like a nine ten i'm a six you a six yeah that's a school that's that's over 10 right we good we good yeah man somebody who humble who don't care about man let's go get a sandwich on a friday night right like and not you know and not be tripping you ain't got look i understand that you know occasionally we're gonna go to a damascro's we're gonna go to state 48

We will go to the nice establishment, but that is not a prerequisite.

You don't have to walk on the red carpet.

You don't have to be seen.

We don't have to post everything on social media.

Oh, look, you know, my soulmate, my rib, and all that other food.

Because

you hiding things.

You understand what I'm saying?

I feel like just the prettier girls are like that.

They're caught into the clout.

They're caught into the nice things because we feed them now.

Yeah,

you know, because when, like, if I'm not constantly feeding her ego as like a beautiful woman and a beautiful, that's why I say that.

You're on your phone and somebody is, and that's what you want all the time.

Yes.

And I can't keep up with that.

Yes.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Yes, I know.

I can't keep up with that.

Hey, it was one like you had to tell her all the time.

Like that you would, babe, you're amazing.

Right.

You, you, you, you, are, you awesome.

You this and that.

But I've never, I've never, I've never been in a situation like that when I had to constantly reinforce who she she was and who she is and what type of person and you know what type of body and how she looked and everything.

I'm like, well, damn.

I felt like I was a full-time cheerleader.

Yeah.

I had

they constantly getting it so they need it.

They want it from you.

And the minute you don't, oh, I'll get it somewhere else.

Yes.

Or

somebody will.

Like, it's hard to keep up with that, man.

And I hate that it's like that.

And that's why I said, man, let me, I'm going to go this route.

You know, somebody who's a little more humble, who actually like

appreciates the comments.

Well, do you know, do you shot your shot at Ruby Rose?

I mean,

I mean, the truth, the truth, he normally calls game.

The one thing I know about truth, he called

game.

It goes in.

You hit that bucket, you pull the step, pull it up a 30.

Nah, nah.

I had to catch myself.

I had to catch myself.

Cam just went viral.

He says he wants to know a girl's past,

the man that she slept with.

Ooh, I don't be wanting to know.

I don't either.

No.

But how about this here?

A woman's past is as important to a man

as a man's future is to a woman.

Would you agree with that?

A woman's past is important to a man as a woman's future.

Is to a woman.

Because you want to know if he's going to beat that bread,

he's going to be racked up.

He wants to know

how many bodies you got.

And is any of them in the NBA, NFL, or MLB?

She wants to know, you going to the NFL?

You in the NBA?

You going to play in the major leagues?

Are you going to be, you know, you going to be working CEO?

No, I don't know, because most of them girls, they chasing them that's already in there.

So his future is important to her.

Yeah.

Yeah, that is true.

That is true.

Damn.

I don't want to know the past.

I don't either.

I don't really care because you, like me asking, you can lie.

Yeah.

I'm going to go

more time I spend with you, it's going to show up.

Yes.

Yes.

You know what I'm saying?

It's always going to come out.

Yeah.

Like anytime I've ever caught a girl up on something, I didn't have to look.

Yeah.

It was just like,

damn, what is this?

It's right here in my face.

We go somewhere.

Hey, you knew everybody.

Like, damn.

That's my boy.

That's right.

Like, it's right.

How many boys you got, right?

I can give you one.

I can't give you both.

My friend.

Yeah, it's going to come out.

For sure.

Every time it never fails.

I never had to look.

Right.

I'm going to just chill, you know, and then it's going to, oh, for real.

Okay.

That's what it is.

I see it.

I see it.

You have daughters, and

they hear you, you know, my daughter like daddy.

You got to say that.

You got to talk like that.

Because I got, you know, my daughter's in their 30s.

And so they're asking me questions, you know.

I said, babe, I'm in the entertainment bitch.

But can you find another way to entertain daddy?

Right.

Like, damn.

Right.

How difficult is it to have that conversation with?

Man, that's difficult, Shan, because like, you know, I had to deal with the situation,

you know, the ESPN situation with.

Oh, the live stream.

The live stream, you know, I had to deal.

That was a difficult situation because it was just like, damn.

And, you know, even doing this Truth After Dark, I say some things, you know, about, you know, relationships or black women and everything.

And I'm like you on this.

Like, you know, at this point, I'm entertainment, but then there'd be some hard conversations, too, that we got to have.

I don't know if you'd be like that when you make the mistake.

It's just like, man, you know, I'm human, but it don't change the fact that I'm still your dad.

Right.

And

I'm human.

And I know you probably look at me like a superhero sometimes

and all of that.

But, you know, I make some mistakes.

Yeah.

You know, I'm just like anybody else out here.

I'll make some mistakes.

You know, some

I regret and I say some things.

And, you know, they may not come off a certain way, but like some of these things I believe.

You know, and don't you want a dad that's truthful and stand on his words?

And I know they not always sound like the best thing, but at the end of the day, when I'm long gone and everything, the one thing you can say about me is like, you know what?

At the end of the day, dad, he was

solid.

He was solid.

He spoke his mind.

And he didn't give a damn what people said about him.

And I know sometimes it may be hurt or something like that.

But hopefully some of the traits I give and my opinion and the things I do and say can carry over to make you a strong person because I didn't.

I block out the crowd noise, I block out the negative.

And I hope that my kids can do the same thing.

You ain't gonna always be the most popular person in the room, you ain't gonna always be liked, and that's what's gonna build your character and make you stronger.

And that's what it's done for me.

You still gamble like you used to?

You don't gamble no more, huh?

No, not that much.

Like once every six months, maybe

like if I go to Vegas, hang out, but no, not like I used to.

And because

you try to fuel that competitiveness.

Because we competitive.

Yeah, for sure.

And that never leave.

And that's why we miss the sport.

What can we do to

replace what we've done for the last 20 years?

It's hard.

It's no replacement.

None.

Nothing to complain.

That bus ride, that plane ride, that locker room,

that chemistry, that camaraderie, ain't nothing.

You just got to find what makes you happy.

You know, I've been trying to like, for me, it's pouring into my kids.

Yes.

You know, the more time I do with that and just like try, try to stay busy.

Try to get, the key is when you retire is try to get routine.

Yes.

You know, because we are.

We're so routine because we know the structure.

Okay, I got practice at this time, so I need to get my workout in at this time.

I need to do this.

I need to eat.

I take my nap.

Get on the bus.

Go to the stadium.

I'm going to play the game.

Everything is so structured.

Structure, routine.

Now, I got all this time on my damn hand.

What the hell am I going to do?

You got to get your, when you first retire, you're like, I got free time.

I can just do whatever I want.

I can travel here.

That's the worst thing.

That's the worst thing.

So now, since I've been back in routine, I've been good.

I got, you know, I get up, I work out.

It's the first thing I do.

Take care of the mail,

run my emails.

Yeah.

kids, sports with them.

Like, it's just, I got a good routine going, do my podcast and this and that.

And so I got a good flow right now.

So, but it's hard, you know?

Right.

It's hard.

What's next for Paul Pierce?

What's next for Paul Pierce, man?

You know, I'm getting older.

My kids are,

I got a couple kids in high school.

I got a young one.

I'm just trying to still go out here and build out my media career.

You know, I've been doing that from day one since I retired.

I stepped into the...

media field and I enjoy doing that.

You know what I'm saying?

I enjoy talking sports.

I enjoy talking life and relationships.

And I'm just trying to build on it.

You know, I'm trying to be a positive influence.

I'm trying to have a respectable opinion.

And, you know, I really love what you've been able to build, Shannon.

You know, a lot of us in this culture, we look up to like a lot of things that you've been able to build and admire and appreciate, you know, because we got a lot of things in common.

And, you know.

I think it's important for all of us to support each other.

Yes.

And that's it.

Just try to be a positive influence, take care of my kids, and you know, eventually ride into the sunset.

The truth.

All periods, ladies and gentlemen.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

Want a slice, got the roll of dice, that's why all my life.

I've been grinding all my life.

Been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

Want a slice, got the roll of dice, that's why.

All my life, I've

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