Club Shay Shay - Paul Pierce Part 1

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What if you guys were the same age?

What if you came in, because you came in 98, LeBron came in 003?

If we were the same age, I don't believe he would have had four championships.

He wouldn't have got.

You kept him before?

He wouldn't have got those two in Miami.

You know, I was at an older age then, a lot of miles and stuff, and it was hard for me to keep up with him.

I'll be looking at that tape shed, and I'm like,

like, damn,

I couldn't even move.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

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That's why all my life, I've been grinding all my life.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle paid the price, want a slice, got to roll a dice.

That's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life.

Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shay Shay.

I am your host, Shannon Sharp.

I'm also the proprietor of Club Shay Shay.

Stopping by for conversation on a drink today is one of the greatest small forwards in NBA history.

He's an NBA legend, an NBA champion, a finals MVP, 10-time All-Star, four-time all-NBA selection, a member of the very prestigious 75th anniversary team, signifying he's one of the greatest 75 players in NBA history.

NBA scoring champ, NBA three-point contest champ, self-proclaimed best scorer in NBA history, pure scorer in NBA history.

Pure.

Hall of Famer.

His jersey is retired by two storied franchises, the Boston Celtics and the Kansas Jayhawks.

He's a McDonald's all-American, Mr.

Basketball in the state of California.

Government name is Paul Pierce, but you know him as the truth.

Here he is.

What's up?

Truth.

Great to see you, dog.

I'm always, I always, like, when I read off people's accolades, I'm always, I'm anxious to hear when you hear everything that I read off.

And it's not that you deserve that, you earned that.

When you hear all the things that I read, what's going through your mind?

I'm like,

I'm like, damn, I ain't heard it like a minute, minute, like, for real.

I'm like, man, I really did left my mark on the game.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

And it's come from childhood, you know, coming from here in Inglewood and

going through every stage and being one of the top from like high school to college to making it to the league.

I mean, it's, oh, I've been blessed.

You know what I'm saying?

It's just a testament, I think, of my hard work, my dedication to everything, and

it's showing, you know, based off what you read off.

Right.

Man, let's toast that then.

Oh, man, it's great to have you on.

Man, for sure.

You did break the internet.

You said you're the best pure scorer in NBA history.

I want to, because when people think of scorers, having followed a game as long as I follow, people talk about Kobe, people talk about Jordan, they talk about Kevin Durant, they talk about James Harden.

You said you are a better, a pure scorer.

What is your definition of a pure score?

All right, this is this is what I'm gonna say because when I said it, I didn't give enough context to it.

Correct.

And so like, this is, I'll say it like this.

If you just took

everybody's greatest scoring strength,

or just say they're athleticisms, let's just say the athleticism.

Okay.

And put me in that realm with them.

That's how I feel.

But, Paul, you know, people don't look at you as being athletic, Paul.

You don't jump high, you don't run.

I know.

You know what I know?

That's what I'm saying.

That's why I feel if you take the athleticism out of them, okay, okay, okay.

You know what I'm saying?

Yes, yes.

Take Jordan's athleticism out, where he can't just jump over you to score, and we just do everything on the floor.

I feel like my skill level is better than Cobe?

Man, Cobe is close.

He close with you.

You close to him when he closed the

because if you ever watch Cole interviews about me, you know, he always talked about my footwork.

Yes.

And Cove had elite footwork too.

Yeah.

And so, like, Cole, without his athleticism, was still pretty elite because of that, because of his IQ and his footwork.

Correct.

And there's not a lot of players I can say that about once I take their athleticism away.

So if there is anybody,

he's right there.

Well, Hardin is not the most athletic, but Hardin can put the ball in the basket at an elite level.

Yeah, but listen to this.

When you look at how you score.

Okay.

So like, say, like, if you look at Hardin, one of the greatest scorers, ever had a historic season, but he was all threes and layouts of free throws.

Yeah.

Like.

No MIDI.

Like, he could shoot the MIDI, but like, think about this.

I could come off, like, today's game, name me one player that can come off a down screen and hit a jumper.

Right.

They don't even run.

Anybody tried to hit that.

Nobody can do that.

Like maybe Kevin Durant and Steph Kerr.

But like post-game, mid-range, off the dribble three, step back, off the pick and roll.

We're not talking about nothing out of that, just getting buckets.

I feel like

post-game, mid-game, elbow, three, all the way out.

I have no offensive weaknesses.

Like, not one.

So when you said that statement, how many former or current NBA players call and say, true, man, what you talking about?

I mean, they thought I was on something, but I'm like, I mean, they don't think like how I was thinking and like how I'm explaining.

And now,

I think it'll make more sense when people watch this, you know, when you say, but even that, take all the top scorers, take the best thing they do.

Right.

And you can take the best thing I do.

See, the thing about me, you can't even tell me what's the best thing I do offensively because I think I do all of them the same thing.

Really well.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, you can say Curry, take his shooting ability away.

Right.

Jordan, what, his fade away or whatever?

Like you, like, what do you take away from me?

Like, I can do, like, what's my greatest scoring strength?

Nobody can even tell you because I did it all well.

I'm going to push you to the three-point line.

I won a three-point championship contest.

I won a three-point contest.

That ain't nobody guarding you.

I mean, I've dominated games from the three.

Yeah.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

So I say it like that.

And it's not a knock on the great scorers because I respect all of them.

And, you know, it wasn't a knock on Jordan because I respect Carmelo, Kobe, and all of them.

But I'm like, I'm right there.

Right.

You did, you did something that you're the first player to win the three-point competition

for a Celtic since Lagbird, and you beat Steph Curry.

Right.

So I always tell people.

That's the thing.

See, it's not just winning the three-point competition.

It's who you beat in order to win the three-point competition.

I say, hey, Steph Curry was in the content.

They'd be like, oh, he was a rookie.

It was still Steph.

It was still Steph Curry.

It wasn't Steph Curry.

That's all I need to know.

Steph Curry was in the contest because in 10 years from now,

that's Steph Curry, and I beat him.

I don't know how old he was.

I don't know how old he was.

You know what I'm saying?

He was there.

He was there.

Hey, we ain't talking.

Hey, we're not talking about 10 years still.

We're not talking about...

No, we're talking about Steph.

He feels him.

Is he the greatest shooter ever?

He's the greatest shooter ever.

Well, I beat him.

That's all I'm saying.

Kevin Durant responded and said, you know what?

He said,

I really didn't see any weakness in Paul's game.

I understand where his confidence comes from.

You mentioned, I ain't have no hoes.

I could post you.

I could hit the MIDI.

I could shoot the three.

I could drive the basketball.

I could drive and pull up.

I can go to the A.

I could put the ball on the floor and get to the rim.

You find me.

I'm going to the free throw line.

I'm going to make 80 plus percent of those.

So when you look at it, it ain't really no.

That's what I'm saying.

Like, what can they do that I can't except jump over somebody?

You know what I'm saying?

Like,

I got, I can shoot the three, I can shoot the pull-up, I can shoot all.

Who's the greatest scorer?

Kevin Durant?

I can do everything he can do.

He just probably do it at a higher percentage.

Oh, yeah, he's going to shoot it out.

Yeah.

He gonna do it.

And that's the difference when you talk about the scores.

The efficiency in which he does, the efficiency in which someone does something.

Yeah.

That's what they're looking at now.

That's what they're looking at.

But if we just talk about just the ability to do

that way,

then i'm right there but like when you're doing it at a higher percentage it looks different like on another level and and that's what he does in today's game who do you when you watch in today's game you like okay i see a little bit of my game in him

man um

uh i probably i say shea gilgis because he played below the rim yeah you know what i'm saying he not Just blowing by people.

He's footwork, pivots, and stuff.

And he just

gets to the money.

And so I can say him, Jason Tatum,

I could say that about him.

Yeah, I definitely see Tatum more so.

Yeah, Jimmy Butler, too.

And the reason I see Jimmy Butler, because he gets overlooked a lot.

You know what I'm saying?

It ain't all flashy.

No.

You know what I'm saying?

But he gets to point A to point B, and it gets, and that's how I was.

And

his mental, it's like we got the same type of mental type.

And people like Flash.

Yeah.

That's why Jordan, because we had never seen a player like Jordan.

I mean, the tongue hanging out, the way he got the ball in the hand, got it in your face.

He elevating over people.

You know, Connie Hawkins and

Dr.

J could elevate, but Jordan, it was just something about that pavana.

Sweet.

And this from that point on,

you find a guy that has that flash, Kobe came with flash.

And it's like, now, if a guy can score, man, he don't look like Jordan.

He don't do it like Cole.

Right.

You got to have flash with it.

Now, as great as Shay is, I don't think he gets the appreciation because it's fundamental.

Right.

We like things unorthodox.

We don't need to.

We don't want fundamentals.

fundamentally.

I mean, you know, we come from the era, Shannon, to where, you know, as a culture, we flashy.

Yes.

You know what I'm saying?

Like the way we dress, the way we walk, the way we hear me before you see me.

Yeah, the way we play.

You look at my car.

That's how we play sports.

So we gravitate towards that.

We do.

You know what I'm saying?

And that's why when they start talking about the face of the league, they gravitating toward Anthony Edwards because of his flash.

That's right.

When Jason Tatum has won the chip now, has been on top of the world.

And nobody really gave him that when they were.

You know what I'm saying?

So we look at that shiny

that's attractive that we gravitate to.

And so, and that's why I never really got a lot of the credit because I wasn't that.

I was more of a no-nonsense player.

Right.

And that's why I throw Jimmy Butler in there.

He's like that.

I feel like LeBron been the face of the league since his second or third year.

You know what I'm saying?

We was calling him the king from day one.

You know what I'm saying?

I heard about him in high school.

NBA Caps was flying to his game.

I was in the all-star game in Philadelphia.

I'll never forget this.

We was in the locker room because we all congregate both teams, East and West.

They was like, it's a kid right now that can play an all-star game today.

And I was like, what?

They were saying that in the NBA all-star locker room while this kid was in high school.

That's when I heard about him.

So LeBron had to be what?

He's by the teens.

18.

They was like, this kid can play in this game today.

That's what they were saying in the locker room.

Oh, my goodness.

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Baron Davis said, you're the greatest player to come out of Los Angeles.

Jackie Robinson, John Elway, Lisa Leslie, Oscar De La Hoya, Willie McGinnis.

I mean, Shermill is not from L.A.

She's from a suburb, but she's from, we're going to group her in there.

You the best athlete come out of LA?

No, not the best athlete.

He probably meant more like basketball player.

But I wouldn't even, I wouldn't give myself best basketball player.

Who are you going to get into?

I give it to Lisa.

Okay.

I give it to Lisa Leslie.

I've always had admiration for her.

She's from Inglewood.

Okay.

Okay.

You know what I'm saying?

I had an honor to see her play in high school when you know the word around town.

Inglewood's small.

Yeah.

So, like, you hear about people, you young, you're like, let me go check out.

Everybody talk about Lisa.

She scored 100 points.

Like, and the half.

Man, I'm trying to get it.

I can't get 100 points at a half, even if you by yourself.

Right, right.

She was cold, man.

I'm telling you, I got to give flowers to Lisa.

Right.

You know, I looked up to her as a kid, watching her at Morningside, green that we come from the same place.

Right.

And so

I give it to her.

Give it to her.

I'll probably be in the top three or four, maybe, basketball players.

But like, athlete, that's kind of a stretch because there's so many great athletes come out the city.

Because Callie's so big.

Yeah, yeah.

What's your fondest memories of growing up in Inglewood?

What did

seven-year-old, 10-year-old, 12-year-old Paul Pierce, what did he want to be?

Growing up

and running around Inglewood, what did you want to be?

Man, I think as a young black kid growing up, and like, so I'm going to tell you this little Shan, I was born in East Oakland.

Okay.

You know, and then I moved to LA when I was like nine years old.

Okay.

So like everybody dream as a kid is just like to be a sports or rap.

You know,

you know, that's just what it was in the black community.

You know, we didn't feel like we can be doctors or the huxtables, even though we watched that.

You know, we just felt like that was the only way out to ghetto.

And so my dream was was always to be in the NBA or

professional sports because all our heroes was that.

Yes.

You know, unless you rap, you know, because I'm looking at other black kids and black successful people

rapped sports.

Correct.

You know, so my dream was always to be

in the NBA, man.

It was like, it was all or nothing.

You know what I'm saying?

And

I was a pretty smart kid.

You know, I went to my classes.

I'm not saying if I didn't make any hoop that I wouldn't have been nothing, but I would have found a way to do something, whether it be sports or just succeed in life, because I'm a hustler, I'm a grinder, and I'm going to find a way.

You're going to find a way to figure it out.

You just devoted.

It's not that you couldn't have been better

in your books, but the books.

was about let me do what I need to do to make sure this basketball thing pans out.

And if that basketball thing don't pan out, then I think about something else.

But you got a singular focus.

And I think you have to.

Nothing else.

well i got a plan b i got a plan c i got a plan c dot i got plan a right if a don't work i i

after a couple years if a don't work out i'll get to b c and d but right now it's all eight man and then you don't realize how hard you really work or like people say it yeah but they don't do what it takes to actually get to the dream yeah you know like me when everybody going out man i'm telling you man me and my boys we used to when i was like in college we would go out to the club and we'll leave the club and go to the beach and run and go to the sand dunes and run up that hill we were so obsessed with it we was like man you know what ain't nobody talking about nothing tonight let's go let's let's go to the gym let's go to the sand dunes you gotta be obsessed with it my grandfather used to tell me and my brother and i all the time we were growing up in rural south georgia he said never mistake habit for hard work And it took a while for me to understand I had to get older.

See, people do things over and over and think they're working hard.

Just because you go to the gym every day, that don't mean you're working hard.

You're doing that out of habit.

Yeah, for sure.

So, people mistake habit for hard work.

And when they don't get the results, see,

you can't complain about the results you didn't get for the work you didn't put in.

Man, coach messed over me, man.

I was spoke back.

Hey, hey, Paul, wasn't I better than you?

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Eighth grade.

Yo, Paul, why not better than you?

Sure was.

Yeah, he was, dog, but

you showed complacent.

Exactly.

You got complacent.

But it's funny to hear other athletes say it

and if you've been a professional athlete you understand what it takes to get to that level yeah man coach just like you that

coach ain't putting no ball in the basket coach ain't catching no passes see those people is excuse makers yes you know what i'm saying like whenever my mom was like you know she always told me like listen though you're gonna forge your own path and don't don't get discouraged But you got to put in the work, but like don't make excuses for this shit.

Yeah.

Like

you, you, it's on you.

If something happens, it's on you.

Correct.

Don't stop blaming everybody else because you're going to spend the rest of your life blaming everybody else for your failures.

Yes.

I blame me for every time I mess up something.

That's the only person.

And then I can get over it better.

Yes.

So it's easy.

But you grew up in Oakland.

You started your first nine years was in Oakland.

Then you come to Inglewood.

The gang culture was heavily in both areas.

How did you not succumb to that?

Man,

that's a story we don't document enough.

Like, I think there needs to be like a documentary on the way sports and gang culture came up, especially for like inner city kids.

It kind of went hand in hand.

Yeah.

You know, because you grow up with guys and once you start getting older, you start forging your path, but y'all still live in the same,

we still cool.

And so it's like, you can easily get caught up because I've seen guys that was great at basketball, but they were still in the streets.

You know, and and that comes from like, I think having like

the right people around you, the right friends,

you know, and the right parents.

I saw my mom struggle.

I come from a single-parent home.

Okay.

And I never met my father, you know.

To this day.

Well, I've seen pictures of us when I was little.

I don't remember.

You don't really remember it, though.

No.

Like I was like three or four.

Okay.

But I don't have a memory of them.

And so, you know, the one thing that I always preach, like, don't be a follower you know because I think that's what that's what you know the gangs is all about just following each other you know one of the bills

I've heard people say it's the only family I know it's the only family I had they made me feel like I was a part of something and that's what family you know you're supposed to feel the love and I never felt love at home but I felt love from this group But like, if this is love, then why y'all beating my ass?

Like, to get on?

If this is love, why are you asking me to put my life on the line and have dangerous acts right you know i'm getting in a car and there's a drive-by i can go to jail right you know i've been caught in one of them cars shan

man i've been caught in one of them cars and i looked at my life flash between my eyes and i never got in that car i didn't know it was gonna happen right but i was just like i can't put myself in this situation no more you know what i'm saying because i see a lot of my young friends

get killed.

I seen a lot of my young friends like it's it's it's crazy like as a kid you don't really think about it because we're so used to it growing up in the house.

Like it's traumatizing now.

Like when you think about it, like.

What could have been or what could have been lost?

But we taught to be tough when I just lost my friend I was with at the movies yesterday.

I went to like three funerals in high school.

That's not normal.

Right.

No, absolutely not.

You know what I'm saying?

But we looked at it as like, man, deal with it.

Right.

You know, this is what happens.

You know, like today,

you know, you're going to have to see or see somebody and talk about it.

Whereas like you you got to deal with it.

But I'm like, man, just don't stay from this area.

Right.

Watch, you know, watch.

And that's not normal the mindset.

Cause like my mindset was like, man, I just want to make it to 21.

Yes.

Wow.

You know, like, damn, what you want to be when you grow up?

Man, I want to just be 21.

21.

Because, you know, the statistics was most young black kids before the age of 21 would be dead or in jail.

Correct.

And you hear that all the time growing up.

And I was just like,

get to 21.

Paul, was there ever a situation I remember with like

when I was in college and then I got to the league, I had guys that I went to high school with.

I knew what they were doing, but they would never put me in harm's way.

I would be somewhere.

I was like, hey, man, I'm headed back downtown.

Anybody want to ride with me?

They're like, nah, Sharp, I got that stuff on me.

I ain't going to, cause I ain't going to even put you in harm's way.

You get stopped.

They already know I'm dirty.

Now, if they ain't going to talk about me, they're going to talk about Sharp's homeboy in the NFL, so forth and so on.

Was it a situation?

Because it used to be like that.

Guys would not let guys, bro, you got some, man, get your ass out of here.

You got stuff going on for you.

Get to help them around here.

Yeah, that's what gang cultures are.

Once you started getting good in your neighborhood, that's the thing about the gang culture and sports.

They started rallying around that.

So they were just like, nah, you can't come over here today.

Right.

Or nah, we got to make sure you get home because if anybody's going to make it a hood, we're going to make sure you make it.

Yes.

You know, and that's the story don't get talked about.

You know what?

We're going to go to the gangs.

Ain't nobody going to do nothing.

It was like, yo, your

security.

You know, you had security way back then.

Yeah, security way back then.

Like, don't mess with Pete.

You know, he's going to make it out.

Right.

You know, because if he make it out, we feel like we all made it.

We do.

And that was the culture.

And that's what it was.

I did have that.

You know, it'd be times like, you know, I'm over there, they smoking weed and everything.

Like, man, you got to go home, man.

You know, go home, get home.

I'm just outside around the corner.

Right.

But this is what I live around.

You know, they all standing outside.

Like, man, go home, man.

Get ready.

Go to the gym or go shoot some hoops.

Right.

Like, all right, get out of here.

Bet.

You know what I'm saying?

Is it true that you got cut from your uh high school basketball team as a freshman and a sophomore sophomore yeah i got demoted like so so you tried out for bars and they put you on jv yeah yeah but then he brought me back up uh

he brought me back up because look we was missing some players

He brought me back up because we was missing some players.

I think we only had like seven players for this tournament.

Damn.

You know what I'm saying?

Because over Christmas break.

Right.

It was going everywhere.

So I was there.

So he had no choice but to play.

And so I started ball.

I took advantage of the opportunity.

You know, and that's when people got to realize when your window is there, you got to seize it.

That was my window.

Right.

Because, like, maybe I wouldn't have gained the confidence I gained if

I didn't take advantage of my window.

And from that point on, it just, my confidence grew.

Yes.

I was the youngest on the team.

And then they were just like, man, you know what?

We're going to keep him up on varsity.

He's going to start the rest of the year.

Wow.

Like the last 16 games started.

And from that point,

that was it.

I started gaining confidence.

I was getting stronger.

And I was just like, man, I can be good.

So now I'm like, shoot,

I'm in a gym.

Like, I'm getting better.

I'm starting.

I'm growing into my little grown man phase now.

And I'm just like, ooh, okay.

Cause you know, when you get that confidence and you just see

everything, when you start seeing shots go in and you getting better and you growing and you like, oh man, I can do it.

And then I got the people around me saying, man, you can do it.

You're like, I don't know who job I took, but he ain't getting it back.

Ain't no coming back from this.

Ain't no coming from this.

You're about to stay on Christmas break, bro.

Yep, ain't no coming back from this.

Banks, right?

The reason why you moved to LA, did you burn the house down?

I did have a situation like that, man.

What you mean a situation?

Man, I was a kid.

You know,

this is something

a lot of people don't know this story.

And thank God social media wasn't out because I was

I was playing with matches as a like eight-year-old.

We had a little small two-bedroom house and three three boys in it.

And I was playing with them.

I'll never forget it either.

I'm whitening up the quilt, blowing it out.

Like, you know, we called it quilts then.

Yeah.

Kids don't know about that.

The quilt that was handmade.

So I'm blowing it out, seeing how matches work, and it lit it, and it said,

and I looked and I,

and it was so out of control in my mama's bedroom, I ran out and sat on the couch.

You ain't tell nobody?

Didn't say nothing.

Didn't say nothing.

Next Next thing you know, it's smoke.

And next thing you know, man, we, we, man, I'm in front of the house, the whole neighborhood outside, fire trucks.

Did you tell them what happened?

Yeah, eventually I got my ass whooped a lot.

Man.

They beat it out yard.

Yeah.

You know, and that's why I'm so proud that I made it.

That I was able to reward my mom with a house when I got to the league.

Yeah, this is the house I burned.

Mama, this was the one I burned down.

Man, this is a true story, man.

I got relatives to this day that'll tell you this story.

Man, I'm telling you.

And then, so as a kid, when I get back to the neighborhood a year later, we move back in the house.

I guess a year later, we move back in the house.

I'm going around the neighborhood.

They like arson.

The older kids is calling me arsonist.

I don't even know what that is.

I have no clue what an arsonist is at the age of eight.

You know what I'm saying?

So I'm like, why are they calling me that?

You know what I'm saying?

I was like, damn.

And then later I found out, oh, you said

fires you said fire man you didn't get that smoke in America PSA I know don't play with badges man things happen for a reason you know

did you ever try

do you ever try football yeah I was good at football you was good at football what position I was I was a quarterback and then I played DN also I started in football and baseball like damn but I broke my leg I was playing uh with older kids.

So I was like eight, nine years old playing with like 13, 14 year olds because I was a big kid.

Broke my leg,

and then I broke my leg again when I turned 12.

Okay, so I broke my leg twice before I was even a teenager.

Damn, and so moms is like, You're gonna stunt your growth, you can't play for you, they thought you were gonna break your growth.

Yeah, that's that's the stories we got told: don't lift weights, and don't you broke something, you can't play no more.

But I was originally football and baseball before I even

thought about basketball, right?

So, so high school, you turn it out, you go to the McDonald's All-American game.

Yeah.

And you were recently named one of the 35 greatest McDonald's All-American players in the history of the game.

So what was it like?

Okay, you finish up your senior year, you get to call, Paul, you're a McDonald's All-American.

Obviously, if you play basketball, there is no higher honor for a high school basketball player.

You miss the basketball in the state of California.

You get to invite McDonald's All-America.

That was everything because I remember my sophomore year, I told everybody I want to be in that game.

I remember watching Jason Kidd in that game when I was outside.

I said, I'm going to play in that game.

I'm telling one of my best friends, and he was like, Man, shut up.

You know, get out of here.

I said, Watch, I'm going to play in that game.

That's when my constructed growing.

And so when I got that invitation, I was like, Man, this is it.

This is the top of the top.

Yes.

You know what I'm saying?

And then I got KG there because the summer before, me and KG played together AAU.

He stayed at my house.

So me and KG history go way back.

That explains it.

Now, because I was wondering, I said, well, damn, how they, I mean, they didn't come out together.

And then the research and I was like, okay, they was in the McDonald's All-American game together.

I didn't know the AAU story, though.

How many people know that AAU story?

It's out there.

So

our AAU coach flew Kevin out to L.A.

in the summer, our 11th grade, going to 12th grade year.

He was like, I got this kid, Paul Pierce, because then you have to read about cats.

You didn't know.

Yeah, it wasn't no internet.

He saw a picture.

He couldn't see.

So he flew him out.

He actually stayed at my place

for a whole week.

And we practiced at Englewood High School and we drove out to Vegas and we played in the tournament, won the tournament.

And so that year, KG was in South Carolina, was going to move.

He was getting out of South Carolina because he was dealing with some issues out.

So I was trying to get him to move out to Englewood.

You can stay with me.

So he was feeling either coming out to Englewood or going to Chicago.

Wound up going to Chicago and, you know, the rest is history, left out of high school and all that.

But that's when we started our relationship the summer before.

Okay.

I'm looking at that game, KG, Vince Carter, Stefan Marlberry.

You're like, okay, because Vince won the MVP.

Who won the all-star game MVP?

KG won.

KG won.

Vince won the dunk contest.

Yeah, he embarrassed me in that thing.

True.

You know, you know how I fly.

I know.

And you know what?

You know what's so crazy shit?

I was so excited to be in the McDonald's game.

I participated in the three-boy contest, the dunk contest.

I just said, sign me up.

I knew I had no business being in that, but I was just like, sign me up.

You missed six dunks.

I know.

And then I seen Vince for the first time, and I was just like, whoa.

Yeah, he's going to win.

He's going to win a lot of these for years to come.

He could have won the NBA dunk contest as a senior in high school.

Because he was, I mean, you see old footage and his head is at the realm in high school.

Man, that's what I'm saying.

I just was happy to be there and I want to participate.

I'm trying to help me understand this.

A kid from California, Englewood, California.

How the hell you end up in Lawrence, Kansas?

Only Dorothy wanted to go back home.

You're right.

Kansas?

No beaches.

Yep.

Ain't a whole lot of people that look like you out there.

Not at all.

And you was like, yeah, this is where I need to go.

100%.

Hey, listen, when you grow up in the streets out there, you seeing what's going on, I need to get away from this.

You try to get as far away as I can.

I'm not going to be far away from this.

And I'm not coming back.

I'm going to come back for a week to see my mama.

Right.

You know what?

It's crazy.

I took my visit.

You said, Lad, you know, you know, you take your visit.

Party up.

USC, it's fun.

It's fun.

Cal, Arizona is fun, fun.

When I went to Kansas, it was nothing going on.

I was like, this is where I need to be.

Focus.

Locked in.

I ain't got to worry about it because, see, if you are UCLA, USC, every weekend, you're going to be home.

They're going to be like, hey, you want to go to the game?

They're going to go back into the neighborhood.

I came out there.

I was like, you know what?

This is just nothing going on out here.

They got a long John Silvers to eat.

I'm cool with that.

You know, I'm coming here.

Right.

And that was it.

Because

I was mature.

I knew what I needed.

And I knew I was like, man,

I'm not coming back to the wood because it's too much.

Too much going on.

When you look at Kansas players, where does Paul Priest rank himself?

You got Wilt Chamberlain.

You got Embed.

You got Wiggins.

You got Danny Manning.

I mean, you got some great Kansas Jayhawk players.

I'll put myself in the top five.

I'm going to say Wilk is the greatest player to ever come out of Kansas.

And then, you know, everything's up for debate.

You know, Embiid was the number one pick.

Wiggins was the number one pick.

You know, but if we just talk about your Kansas career,

you know, you got to put like

second.

Yeah.

I remember Danny in the miracles.

Yeah, Danny Pickles.

Ain't no way he supposed to, they smoked the one of Master Championship.

You You got to put Danny, man.

And I never even went to a Final Four.

I was the first team All-American, and I had some good statistics, but, you know, it's guys that really had great college career.

Mario Chalmers in there.

Fourth national championship.

Final most outstanding player.

Forrest Twins.

Thomas Robinson.

He was national player of the year, I think.

So we had some great players come out.

I'll put myself in the top five because of what I was able to accomplish from college all the way through.

You look at at the end of the story.

Oh, wait, well, you number two.

But I will.

Yeah, I'll probably be number two.

You'll be number two by five.

And

that ain't a bad day.

That ain't bad.

So now you come out.

You have a great college career.

You come out in your draft, Vince Carter.

You got Dirk Novinsky.

You got Mike Baby, Antoine Jamison, Jason Williams, Larry Hughes.

So if they were to redraft, Say, you know what?

We know what we know now, and they redraft, where are you going in the draft?

I'll probably go number two.

It'll probably be Dirk.

Yeah.

And then me.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would say that.

You redraft, then you probably go Vince.

Yeah.

Dirk, me, Vince.

Then

it's close from then.

I mean, you could say Mike Bibby or Antoine Jameson, something like that.

Yeah, but that'll be the top three right there.

Do you believe you should have won rookie of the year?

Man, as much as

I was after the first month,

I went to one, but then I sprained my ankle.

Let me tell you this story, Shay.

My boy was living with me my rookie year.

He came out from the wood, and he was like, Oh, I've sprained my ankle.

He came in, like, did you see what Vince did last night?

And I was like, man, I don't care what Vince did, like, because we compete for rookie of the year.

And I'm like, damn, you know what?

He is killing.

He's showing me all these dunks.

And so

I couldn't deny what Vince was doing this rookie year.

Yeah, he was crazy, man.

He was going crazy.

I mean, he was dunking on everybody.

Man, he got Zoe.

He got Rick Smith.

He got everybody.

As a rookie, too.

I mean, he just, that was his coming out party.

And I was just like, I couldn't deny that.

So

I deserve second because I miss, because I was hurt.

And I was, if I didn't get hurt,

it would have been a closer race.

Closer race.

But Vince deserved that.

As a rookie, what are some of the, because I think every league has what rookies have to go through.

Some people call it hazing or initiation.

You got to bring donuts or you got to get chicken or burgers for the play.

You know what I'm saying?

It's a ritual.

It's an initiation that, you know, I'd be like, man, I can't wait.

I'm like, I will make the team next year just because I want somebody to bring me-ish that I got to bring everybody else.

That's the sole reason.

So, what as a rookie, what did they have you doing?

Man, Shannon.

You know, you had to bring that care package to the vets.

Make sure you put it in the bag.

Don't about to go on the road.

You know what that care package was.

You know how a little bit of everything.

You wasn't afraid, like, hold on, man.

Y'all put me at risk.

Yeah.

Come on, man.

Come on, now.

Risk.

Hey, you playing at the highest level.

You got that

care package.

Hey, put that in the luggage when we get to the airplane.

Damn.

And then I got to take the package back when we land.

Whatever's left of the package

and dispose of it.

Yeah.

So

you get drafted.

You're going to the Boston Celtics.

What would you think?

Like, damn.

Where did you want to go?

Did you work out for the Celtics?

I didn't work out for the Celtics.

Damn.

That's what I'm saying.

I was projected to go number two

in the draft.

So the number one pick was the Clippers at the time.

And number two is Vancouver Vancouver had a need for my position but the Clippers did too right and so I asked Elgin Bailey let me work out again because I wouldn't have mind coming home to the Clippers my first year right

they took Oliver Candy and then number two was Mike Bibby three was right from the France then it was like Antoine Jameson Vince Carter

And you know, the crazy part, when they picked Jason Williams, white chocolate, I didn't even know who that was at the time.

He went to sack, right?

Yes, but i didn't even know who he was because apparently he went to floor i didn't even know what college he went to apparently he got suspended for something right play right and i was just like i was sitting there like who is that right you know and then when boston called me my name i was just like i didn't even work out for them

you know and then like a good friend of mine is chauncey billups i remember talking to him while he was in boston right

And he was telling me how like, I was like, how the league is, man.

You know, this is before I got drafted.

Right.

And he was like, man, you know, training count was tough, dog.

I got Ray Petino.

He had like five or six of us on IVs.

And I was like, what?

Like, we running like, y'all run like that in the league?

He was like, yeah.

So when he called, when they called my name, Boston, that's all that's going through.

That's all he's going through.

Yeah.

He's going to kill us.

Oh, man, he's going to kill us.

He's going to be on the IVs.

So I'm going hard this summer.

Like, I ain't about to be on no IV.

I'm about to be running these sales.

But it was just, it was a shock, truthfully.

I didn't know whether to smile.

I was smiling, but I wasn't happy.

Because you understand, a Boston Celtics was one of the premier franchises in basketball.

I mean, at the time, you're talking about Knicks, you talking about the Lakers, you talk about the Celtics and the Bulls at the time because Jordan had reinvigorated.

Everybody was talking about the Bulls.

So you go into a storied, a historically great franchise, although they had been on some lean years.

Did you look at it like, man, man, the history?

It's hard to say an NBA team got more history than the Boston Celtics.

All those championships, all those great, those great names names and those jersey retired.

You see six and 32 and 34.

I mean, excuse me, 33 and you got double zero and you got cooling number retired and, you know,

all the

KC and Sam Jones.

Yeah.

You know, it's crazy.

When I first got there, one of the first persons I met was Red Arback,

you know, because he throw a charity golf tournament before the season.

So I had a chance to sit with him.

He was like, Paul, come here.

And I looked, and I didn't think he was talking to me.

I didn't even think he knew who I was.

So I had a a chance to sit down with him.

But then it was such a blessing, Shannon, because think about this.

I'm a kid from Los Angeles area.

Going to the Boston Celtics,

I'm really going to find out who my friends are.

You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

You know, let me see who's rocking with me now.

Right.

You know, because we, as LA, as a black kid, we hated Boston.

I hated Boston.

We hated Boston.

You know, I'm a Laker fan.

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Absolutely.

What I'm saying, so it was was just like,

let me see who the homies is now.

But if they roll with you.

Yeah, but like I had a homie I invited to the gang.

We played the Lakers.

Man, he wore the whole Laker uniform.

So me in the back, you know, my mom, my mom didn't play that.

Yeah.

She was like, who's this?

Right?

He with you?

You can't be, we ain't doing that.

Because my mom, my whole family is going to have my jersey on.

You know, my sexy art,

he's standing next to all the Celtics jersey.

With a Laker jersey on.

Yeah, with a Laker jersey on.

This is all like, come on.

I know we all from LA, but it's time to switch up, y'all.

You put that on when you go back out there.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, but like, damn, you know, so I found out who the real homies was fast.

You get that first check.

Obviously, all the things that you're like, I'm going to the NBA.

I'm going to be a professional athlete.

And all the things that you wanted to be able to accomplish and you always wanted to do.

Now you have that opportunity.

When you got that first million dollars, what's going through your mind?

Man, it took a while to get that million, Shannon.

People think, because

let me tell you this.

When I got drafted, number 10, my check for the year was a million.

Right.

We had a lockout, so cut that in half.

Ooh.

So then it's $500,000.

Right.

Taxes.

Cut that in half.

So really, all I had was about like $200,000.

By the time you said my time.

3 to 5%.

Yep.

So knock that down.

I needed me an apartment to rent.

Right.

And probably 2,500, 3,000.

About 3,000 at the time.

Yeah.

In LA too and Boston.

So I just had like

you got to have, you got to get around.

WIP, man, when I tell you, I had about like my first year, I probably had about like 10,000 left.

Were you able to get mom anything?

Man, mom's, I hardly gave her anything.

I had to sign cards, you know, and I was, you know, and I retired and I was like, it's going to come in my year.

But, man,

I didn't even get her house my first year.

Wow.

I don't think I got her house till like my third year.

Right.

So, you know.

Well, you got that first big check, though.

When you looked at it,

you re-signed, you re-up, and you're like, damn.

Man, this more money.

I mean, what I was dreaming,

I don't know if the money, I don't know if the check was this big, even in my dreams.

But now this is a reality.

Right.

And that's when moms got that house.

Go ahead, mom.

We driving around Beverly Hills.

We up in the hills.

Yes.

You know, so I got her something nice.

That was a, it was just so special for me to just see the look on her face.

You know, and, you know, my mom old school, I got her a Cadillac.

Right.

You know, she wanted the new, it was the new version of the Cadillac, though.

You know, because we always dream, like, I want, my mom used to, I want that Cadillac.

That hell dog.

That was like, you know, in the black neighborhood, the the Cadillac was like Benz today.

Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying?

The Cadillac was that.

Blacks damn near saved Cadillac because that's all blacks got.

They didn't get no words.

The 80s Benz or BMW.

They wanted the Caddy.

Caddy.

Crown.

They wanted

that L-Dog.

That Coupe de Ville.

That Coupe de Ville.

That Cadillac Coupe.

Man, they want that long boy.

Yeah.

Put you on.

But it was the new body style at the time

around late, you know, early 2000s.

Because we grew up looking at that long thing with the couch seats, yeah, yeah,

but I got her a Cadillac, and she was happy to go, you know, she just wanted to get her good outfits to go to church in and her Cadillac, right?

Get her nice hat, and just to have mom looking like that in church was like, man, everything you pulling there with a hat on, and that

caddy with the hat on,

just to go in there with her, sit next to her, that was everything for her.

Paul, we was talking a little bit this off-camera about guys making so much money and due through maybe it's a bad investment.

Maybe it's a divorce.

Maybe it's even if it's kids, you had kids in the marriage and you're not divorced.

If you have kids outside the marriage, you can imagine what it costs.

I mean, private schools and, you know, all that other stuff, insurance, no things like that.

And guys going belly up.

And now it happens in a lot of sports, but you know, football players, even though they're making great money now, their money is not guaranteed.

Basketball players, you see 100 million, they're going to get $100 million minus the taxes.

$200 million, they're going to get $200 million minus the taxes.

$300, you say, I think Luca can be the first guy to make $400 million in $28.

Having been around and seen guys, like, how does a guy lose that kind of money?

Man, I think people don't understand.

Like, because when people see you saying, like, today the number is so ridiculously high, it's going to be hard to lose that.

Yeah.

So, like, my maximum contract, my first contract was 80 million.

Right.

So let's cut that in half.

That's 40.

40.

Minus the 3% to 5% for the agent.

Agent fee.

Boom.

You talk about that.

Then you talk about you want to get a house.

Yeah.

Now I got a big deal.

I want to get a house now.

So I spent like $4 or $5 million on the house.

State taxes on that.

Now I got, you know, the family on payroll.

Yeah.

Boom.

So now that's about another like half a million, which every half a million costs you a million.

A million.

And so it can go faster than you think.

Yeah.

You know, and then everybody everybody ain't making my money.

Right.

You know, majority of the league is making lower than that.

But here's the problem that they run into.

Half the league ain't making your money, but that same half spending your money.

Now you want now, yep, well, now I want to go stunt at the club, have nice meals.

Yep.

I want to go to the club.

Get that bottle service.

$5,000 every time I go out to the club.

Oh, man.

Man, all right, now.

Shoot.

Oh, damn, I got.

Let me take care of this girl over here.

Let me throw her $2,000 a month on rent.

This is my girl.

You know, I don't want her to live with me, but I'll make sure she got her apartment.

Get her a nice little car, get a little car to get around.

This is my girl.

You know, I got her a little something.

That's my girl.

And I don't want her, you know.

So that's.

What about the homies?

You flying the homies out.

You got three or four homies.

You bring them out.

They first class.

They stayed at the, if they not stayed with you, they stayed in the hotel.

You paying for everything.

Paying for everything.

And they got that reflective shine.

So they, hey, that's Paul Pierre, homeboy.

Yeah.

Hell yeah, that's me.

Then you're going to go on at least one trip.

One.

At least one when you got about four or five of them.

And you paying for everything.

Where we gonna stay at?

The Ritz?

Well, P, what's your room?

Oh, I got the fit house suite.

Right, you're right.

I'm gonna get, but the Ritz, the regular rooms is $800 a night.

Right, right.

And you out there a wheat.

Your room, $2,500 a night.

Right.

Man, and then you keep constantly doing that.

That add up, man.

People don't know.

If you ain't got them endorsements, I was fortunate enough to have some endorsements, so I used to use my endorsement, but I'm just going to use that, pay for that, put my NBA money over here.

You know what I'm saying?

But like, for the guys who ain't making max deals,

man, you look up after

five, six years, you look up and like, man, I'm checked the check.

Yeah, that happens a lot.

It does.

And is gambling?

Because, you know, we are very competitive.

We compared to everything.

Man, let's shoot for $5,000.

Let's shoot for $10,000.

Let's play Tonk.

Let's play Bo-Ray.

Let's play Guts.

You know the black culture.

Nothing for free.

The black culture

is built around gambling when you got money and you're successful.

Yeah.

You see it everywhere with us.

You know, you see it in the music videos, shooting dice.

You see the card games on the planes.

You know, guys want to be, you know, they want to impress their girls high road, go to, you know, and I was a victim of that.

I was going gambling, you know, going to games.

You did casino gambling?

Yeah, I was going to the casinos and stuff and doing all that.

Would you play Blackjack?

You played?

I played Black Jack.

I played Black Jack.

And it's easy when the money rolling in.

You know what I'm saying?

But I had a lot of examples around me to say, like, you know what, P, you better slow down.

Right.

Like, they're losing money.

You can end up like this.

You know,

my teammate, you know, Antoine Walker was a victim

of gambling.

And he told a story that, you know,

I'm bringing all my homeboys.

I'm taking five, ten homeboys with me.

I'm gambling five, ten, fifteen thousand a hand.

Yeah.

Yeah, I ain't never did that.

No, I never did that.

My living is like $300,000 a hand.

That's a lot.

But see, what happens is you get around somebody that got that kind of money and they playing like that, you want to impress people.

Yeah, I seen that.

Hey, nah, I ain't.

I see now.

I'm watching that.

I like this.

Like, I had a chance to watch, you know, Michael Jordan and

Charles Barkley and them.

And I was like, yeah, see, Mike, see, Mike be trying to, he know

he want to make, he want to be enough to make you uncomfortable.

Bro, I'm not finna lose my house folding with you trying to impress you.

Nah, hell nah.

And now, you know what?

A lot of guys get caught up with taking the credit lines.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

So I don't take the credit lines.

So I bring once you got what

once you got what I came with.

Yeah.

I'm good.

That's it.

This is this, and this entertainment, you took this?

All right, I'm good.

In Boston, you had a situation.

You got stabbed.

Neck, back.

you got hit over the head.

Had you ever had any issues in Boston before that incident?

I never had no issues before that.

You know, I was in my third year.

Yes.

I have had no problems in the streets with nobody.

I really believe that it was an isolated incident.

Okay.

And, you know, I think egos got involved.

Yes.

Okay.

You know what I'm saying?

And

it shouldn't have happened.

You know, it's a situation to where I tell the story.

You know, we played pool.

We ended up the pool game.

Went over to the club.

You know, it happened so fast, Shannon.

It was so crazy because we literally just got there.

It was me,

Tony Batty, Derek Batty, maybe a few other guys.

And it was just like, man, I'm young.

You're going to have a good time.

The honey, Derek.

It's going to be lit.

I'm going to go talk to some girls or whatever.

I mean, what?

I'm in the league.

Am I doing something wrong?

No, I'm not doing nothing wrong.

I want to meet some girls that's attractive.

I'm, you know, I'm young, successful.

And, you know, and I get into a situation and

it's still blurry.

Like,

I don't remember completely because I was like, I had a concussion from it

and everything.

But the only thing I really remember was three girls and one guy.

You know, and it was just like a situation where

I wasn't disrespectful.

You know, I never want to disrespect somebody that I, in a situation, in a town where I don't know.

You don't really know what's going on.

But my fault, where I messed up at, was we walk in as a group

and I tell off.

I don't go to the section with them.

I walk this way instead.

Yeah.

Like when you together, y'all folks stick together.

Got to.

You know, and that's a lesson I learned.

It was a hard lesson.

Yeah.

You know, because if something escalated, at least if my guys was there, they could have de-escalated it.

Correct.

And, you know, I wouldn't have ended up in that situation.

And, you know, it happened.

It was just like, I guess

it went from talking to some girls to an argument pursuing.

And then next thing you know, I'm feeling attacked.

So I'm just like.

It was one guy, it was more than

it looked like one guy right here.

But like, after it was all said and done, it was like three or four guys.

And I'm a big dude.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

So you ain't going to just take me down.

Right.

And so, you know, the reports that came out from the people was like man if you didn't fight for your life you would have been dead it was like you was fighting but they was a jumping on you and everything but you were still fighting back and everything and you know when three guys with three knots it's three knives wow you know what I'm saying it wasn't just one right it was like three it was like based on the puncture wounds it was three different knives wow so they all was boom boom poke you

And I'm just so blessed that like, damn.

They said if you didn't have that leather coat on, it would have been much worse than what it was.

You possibly could have lost your life.

Yeah, I had a leather, a tough leather Avorax jacket.

I wish I had a picture of it because it was shredded.

And then when I came out of all of it, I just remember the end of it.

You know, I'm looking at myself like, I'm like bloodied up.

Boom.

I just remember wiping blood.

I couldn't, it was like profusely, bleeding profusely.

And then they were just like, damn, I need to go to the hospital, you know, because my clothes are soaked in blood.

and and fortunately I made it down the stairs because I got pulled into like a black room over here didn't go down the stairs and the hospital was literally one block away like literally I could have walked there but we drove there got and if man who knows if I if the hospital wasn't right there I couldn't be sitting here talking to you today

and you know that that right there really changed my life

it changed did it

Did it change where you go?

Did it change how you move?

Did it change how you talk to people?

Did it change how you assemble

the women, you know, like, okay, you got somebody?

Because you got somebody.

I don't want to hear this.

I just broke up last.

Me and my man broke up last week.

Or, you know, I'm getting a divorce, but we still together.

How did it change the way Paul Pierce interacted moving forward?

Man, it just changed.

Like, like you said a lot of it, it changed how I went out because after the incident, I didn't go out for a...

A couple years.

Yeah.

I can imagine.

It took a couple years for me to step into a club again.

You know, it just changed my whole mindset because I didn't realize how many people it affected.

You know, I'm sitting in the hospital and I'm seeing stacks of letters and I'm seeing, no, my mom's my brother.

Your mom's worried to death because your mom in the church.

So she's a woman of faith.

Man, woman of faith.

Pray every day.

Like, and I'm just like, damn, I'm looking at how it affected everybody around me.

And it was just like, man, I put myself in a situation to to where I affected all these people that love me.

And I was like, I can't do that again.

Never.

I can't do that again.

I'm like, I'm too valuable to the family right now.

You know, I'd have made it this far not to throw it away like this on some, on some bullshit.

Yep.

You know what I'm saying?

I don't have to go to the club.

Like, you know, I came out here to hoop.

You know, and I ain't even signed my deal yet.

Right.

I ain't even got my big deal.

What am I doing?

Right.

You know, and I know you young, want to have fun.

But I but everybody, truth, I tell guys all the time.

I say there are a lot of guys that are excited and happy.

Yeah, man, that's truth.

That's sharp, man.

Hey, man, how you doing?

Man, I love the Broncos.

I love the Celtics.

But there's another group that feels some type of way because of who you are.

Oh, you think you can talk to my lady?

Oh, you can, you know, your lady choosing me, bro.

I didn't say anything, but it's that way.

And so for me, that's one of the reasons why I was very, very

how I moved.

And I didn't really go out.

And I only went out.

This one teammate when I was in Denver.

If he wasn't going, I wasn't going.

Right.

And that, and we always, we walked in together.

We never left separate.

When he walked in, I walked in.

When I walked out, he walked out.

Yeah.

And I look, and I would tell the guys, you know, a lot of times, because a lot of guys do feel this way, truth, is that they see somebody, their football player, and they touching somebody.

I say, bro, don't do that.

I said, you got to understand, a man going to fight really, really hard in front of his lady because he's not going to let you punk it.

I say, and you don't know what he got on him.

So just let that go, let it go.

Hey, you know, I had a situation, man,

man, I'm about to fight my own teammate.

He's touching the girl.

He's like, oh, you got some on your back.

Oh, he with you.

I say, oh, I said, bro, that's enough.

No, we're not fit to do that.

But you have to understand.

Did you ever go back to that club again?

No, never again.

You know, and if there was some advice that I can give to the young professionals

coming to the NBA or coming to the NFL, whatever sports you play with you at a high level, I would say, like, you know, I was on a young team.

I should have got with a vet.

Yes.

You know, right away, like, man, you know, I want to go out with you.

I want to kind of see how you move.

How you move.

And everything because I don't know how to move.

I'm still learning how to, you know, make the money and what to do with it when I go out.

What, you 21, 22 years old?

Yeah, I'm 21, 22 years old.

I don't know how to move like that yet.

I'm not knowing that, like, maybe I should get a security guard or a table

to escort me in a certain different way.

Yeah.

You know, and stay with the group.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

So for the young players and the young

hoopers or whoever you are, a successful black athlete who are in the limelight, you know, get with somebody who been there, done that.

Right.

Who been around for a minute, though?

Not no four or five years, like somebody 10 years in the game or something like that.

They understand it.

That understand, like, you got to do it like that and talk to them.

Mm-hmm.

You know, So that's what I would say.

From that point on, did it change like the type of woman that you dated or the type of woman that you was like interested in?

Because

sometimes

we like what we like, but sometimes what we like get us in trouble.

True that.

Yeah, but you can't go to the places

where

they're going to be it.

They're going to be at.

You know what I'm saying?

I know exactly what you do.

I can't like, I know I like what I like, but

if she kick it there, I probably don't need to like her.

You know, but if she.

Because that ain't no first time problem.

Yeah, exactly.

That's what he said.

And it's just like,

you never know.

Right.

You don't.

You don't know.

And that's why you need to get with the vet.

Because the vet can pull your coattail.

Hey, bro, I know she look good, but.

Hey.

She done been around.

She done been, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, so forth and so on.

So not put you in harm's way.

Because you know how guys are.

You get with somebody, they gonna let you, they gonna tell you at first they're gonna clown you yeah they got they gotta get

they gonna clown you at first i'm just telling you how to be real having been a professional athlete and see young guys come in and see this young lady that has dated several guys on the team and maybe one of the nuggets

i'd have seen that

yeah

you know what i'm saying but i don't know because i i don't i'm not out there like that so i don't know until you bring her round and then when i see i'm like bro bro what what you doing no man I got a good girl yeah

no you don't yeah

but if at that point in time no matter what I think of her or know what she's done I got to respect that man's choice because he chose her yeah and I the last thing I want to do is cause friction between he and I right

but you can't let

outside interference ruin the locker room.

I done seen that, man.

For sure.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

So you got to have that talk.

You know, like, come on, man.

It'll ruin the locker room if you go that route.

You know, and I don't want to have to break the news to you later.

You know, because I didn't seen it happen.

But the bottom line, you just got to be careful who you with, where you go,

areas you in, what time you in and out.

So, you know, I never stay to the end.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

I love you.

I never stay to the end no more.

I'm never going to hear last call.

Never.

Never.

You're not going to be, they're not going to be putting the stools on the bar.

All the lights come on so you can really see everybody before.

If you stay too long,

if they say last call, if they putting the stools on the, if the lights come on, you stayed too long, bro.

Yep.

Yep.

But there's a lesson to be learned, and I'm happy that the lesson that I learned, that I'm still here, that I can be the game

to the future and the young general.

I'm not saying not to go out and not have fun.

Enjoy it.

You know what I'm saying?

Because it comes and goes.

but be careful and be smart be smart yeah boston we hear a lot of different stories i mean uh um

mr russell bill russell wrote a book about what they did to him he's the winning this uh uh uh sports i mean 11 championships in 13 seasons and everything that he had done he had fought for the civil rights i think it was a 67 summit that he was there and all those guys and he did that so and i've heard a lot of people come from the outside and say, well, Red Sox fan and Boston fans, they yell this and they yell that.

I don't know if I've ever talked to a player that actually played for the Boston team.

What is it like playing in Boston?

Did you see any of the racism?

Did you feel any tension?

I never had a chance to experience that.

Shannon, I think, you know, as fans, sometimes when opposite teams come in, you feel like

you feel a certain type of way.

You know, Boston is a sports city, and it's hate amongst our fans toward anybody else who ain't Boston.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

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And say the N-word or something or whatever.

You know, it probably has happened.

It's never happened to me.

Right.

You know, being that I was a player there.

I was loved there in the city.

You know, it's times I went to the restaurant, got a standing standing ovation.

It was just like, I mean, it's a real sports town.

But, like, I've never felt like the racism.

And, you know, but, you know, you go back

in the day, you know, a lot of the Irish migrated to Boston and a lot of them was, you know, racist.

Yeah.

And so I'm sure there was a lot of

parts of the city where it's still like that.

I just never experienced it.

Right.

And you didn't go to those parts to try to figure it out.

I wasn't at the Irish pubs.

Right, right, right.

You know what I'm saying?

You're not going to Charlestown.

You're not salvage?

Nah.

To give them an opportunity to get liquored up and call me a n ⁇ .

How tough was it?

You get to the Celtics.

You understand the tradition of the Celtics.

60s, they won all the time.

The 70s, they won.

The 80s, they won.

Now you get there and you guys are struggling.

How tough was that to deal with?

Because, like you said, the Boston fans, they're used to winning championships.

They won eight in the 60s and then they won what they won in the 70s and they won what they won in the 80s.

And now you're in the 90s and the early 2000s.

You guys aren't winning championships.

Yeah, well, you got to understand

the support system is amazing.

From the former players,

man, that kept my head up.

Just Red Urabach coming in town, going to dinner with him.

Like, keep your head up, giving me a cigar.

Bill Russell, going to dinner with him.

You know what I'm saying?

Hanging out with Cedric Maxwell.

You know, they kept my hat.

Brad be hating.

That's my guy.

Brad, you be hating them.

Brad, my man.

Yeah, man.

He's good.

He's a great dude, man.

Man, that's like my big brother.

I used to tell him everything.

And, you know, just having them around, just like, man, what do I got to do?

You know, I'm talking to Bill, having dinners with him.

And just like, man, you just got to stay on the path and everything.

And, you know, they kept my sanity of not wanting to.

get traded or go somewhere else.

You know, just having those guys around, Jojo White.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, he lived there.

He was instrumental to me just keeping my sanity going through all the losing years.

It's just like the family of the Celtic culture kept everything together.

And so, you know, that's what I try to bring now with this generation.

You know, I try to be there at the games and go to practices and call Jason time and time again,

trying to see if they good.

So, you know, I try to just carry on what they was able to do for me.

Man, that's awesome.

Did you ever think in those years you got drafted in 98 and then it was a long time before you won that championship.

Did you ever think you was going to win a ring, Truth?

Man.

Because you see Kobe.

Damn, Kobe and Shaq, man, they winning.

Oh, damn.

And you see the Spurs with Tim Duncan

and Manu and Tony Parker, they're winning.

Man, I'm going to tell you, I didn't think it was going to happen, Shannon, like this 2006, seventh season, when I broke my foot.

30 games in, I believe, and we lost 18 games in a row.

Damn.

I was just like, damn, we farther off than I thought we was.

We more than one piece away.

Yeah.

So I was like, I didn't think it would happen.

You know, so I'm having meetings with ownership,

Danny, Doc, like, you know,

man, this is the year of Kevin Durant coming out.

I'm telling you, this dude, we looking at Kevin like, ooh, y'all need to, yo, and we got young Perkins, we got young

Al Jefferson, young Tony Allen.

Them guys was out of my range

for winning.

You know, I got to wait for them to develop in four years.

I'm going to be in my 10th year or 12th year.

I'm going to be like out of my prime or something.

So I didn't think it was going to happen.

But

that was the crossroads.

That was the crossroads.

It was like a blessing in the skies that I broke my foot, that we lost that many games because

we was at least middle of the road.

Team was healthy.

We was like hovering around 500.

But when I broke my foot and we was able to get that draft pick that led to Ray and Kevin, it was like a blessing in the skies because

I was ready to go.

Wow.

Yep, it was.

Because

you was not good enough to win the championship, but you wasn't bad enough to lose the tank and

get a top three, top four pick.

I'm on losing teams, and I'm still making the all-star game.

You know, I'm every year losing teams, and that's hard to do.

On a losing team, still, they like, man, he's in the all-star.

He's in.

But we losing.

And so I was just like, man, it ain't going to happen.

But that was the crossroads of the summer to where

we was favored to get the number one pick.

The fifth pick.

I had a watch party for the draft.

I was like, oh, I'm thinking like we get Kevin Duran.

I can stick around.

This kid is going to turn the franchise around.

I could see that.

We didn't get it.

I was like, I thought that was it.

I thought I was out of there.

Then they maneuvered, got Ray.

I was like, oh, hold on.

They just traded for Ray.

I know I'm sticking around.

You ain't going to trade for an older player

to not have me.

Right.

So we must be in rumors, Kevin coming.

Yo, we trying to get Kevin.

Oh, man.

That's all I ever wanted.

That's all I ever wanted.

You got a ticket.

You good now.

Man, all I ever wanted was just a chance.

Right.

Just give me a chance.

You know, like, when you look at the great players,

like, even look at LeBron.

He needed Wade and Bosch.

Yes.

I don't care how great LeBron was.

He needed to be winning by yourself.

It's tough to win by yourself.

You need other people.

You can win.

But winning a championship.

Win a championship.

Right.

You got to have another great player.

And so

it was a blessing in the skies.

And the rest was history.

Is it true that you demanded to be traded to the Mavericks?

I actually was in the club that summer and ran into Mark Cuban.

And they're partying.

Went to their section.

And I was like.

Telling my agent I want to go play them.

Because that year, oh, yes.

So that year,

they was a win team yeah i think they was the number one seed in the west and they lost the first round yeah so i was just like this is perfect that's the year they lost to the warriors wasn't it yes so i was like i thought it was lined up i was like oh

they primed they can win it they need if they get me right because they already really good yeah

we can win it so my mind was like oh i'm all dirty knee yeah so i'm like i'm trying to line that up like oh if i can get the dallas they already good i can give them that extra dog they need

but it didn't work out.

And then the Celtics did what they did.

Right.

Is it true that you and Kobe had a bet that who was going to get traded first?

Yeah, we did.

How do you know about that?

Damn, that was crazy.

He was at UCLA playing pickup games.

And this is the same year.

We both garbage.

We both in the lottery.

We had UCLA.

We playing against each other.

Then it was like the rounds was over.

So, you know, he sit on the sideline.

I was like, man, we weak.

He was like, yeah, I'm trying to get out of there.

I think he was talking about Chicago.

Yeah, you almost got dealt in Chicago.

I think he was talking, that's how me was talking because we used to play in the summer.

And he was like, man, I'm going to get you out.

He's like, I'm out of here.

I said, I'm out of there, too.

And then he was like, I bet I'll get out of there before you.

He was like on the sideline, chopping it up like that because we were so bad the year before.

And then the crazy part about it, that next year, we in a championship against each other.

Ain't that crazy?

Because that's what they got power, right?

Yep.

Yep.

The summer before we both was thought, we was

out of there.

Do you believe had they not gotten power, had you not got Ray and ticket, you'd have left?

Yeah, 100%.

100%.

It was, the marriage would have been over.

It would have been too frustrating.

I wasn't going to be happy.

It would have got to the point to where I probably would have forced my way.

It would have

boiling over.

Well, you get ticket, you get Ray.

How are you guys able to blend it?

Because

normally it takes time for a team.

You guys have never played together.

Maybe you played with Ray when he was in Milwaukee and y'all was in the All-Star game together.

But Ticket was always in the West.

I know you had a relationship with Ticket when he was in the McDonald's All-American game, but you guys have never played together.

How was Doc able to mesh you guys?

Those are a lot of big personalities now that you got to mesh together.

That's a lie.

You got to break it to a locker room.

Yeah, I'll tell you one thing.

Doc is great at that.

Man, what Doc first did when they first did the press conference, man, we went on a duckbow ride.

Just us three.

We went around the city and we was just talking to Doc, like, how are we going to make this work?

You know, because everybody, it was a lot of speculation that I was going to be the odd man, that I was going to be the egotistical one out of everybody.

And Paul is, he's going to be selfish.

He ain't going to work with them.

It was a lot of people saying that.

And I was just like, all I ever wanted was some other

opportunity.

But I will tell you, like, Kevin,

he was the lead dog in all this.

You know, to be honest, because Kevin is the most selfless superstar

ever in history.

Wow.

He came in and was just like, Paul, this is your team.

I'm just here to help.

I was just like, damn, because I was thinking like, man, Kevin's the man.

He's been the MVP.

He just was like, P, this is your squad.

I just want to help win a championship.

Man, I ain't trying to step on no toes.

Everybody dropped their egos at the door.

But the thing is, we all had previous relationships, whether it was me with Kevin, Kevin with Ray, Kevin with both of us.

And that whole summer, we talked on the phone every day.

Wow.

Call Kevin.

Hey, let's book Ray in.

Boom, boom, man.

Let's get to Boston early, man.

We're going to do this.

Man,

we was making summer plans to win the championship the summer before.

That's how we was talking.

Say, man, we're going to win it together.

And then when we win it, we're going to go to Italy.

That's the conversation we had.

We're going to go here.

I'm telling you, we was already seen it.

Yeah, y'all was already locked in like that.

Man, we seen it.

We was like, man, we gonna win this.

And, of course, everybody, we on the cover every magazine.

I'm talking about people hated that.

Oh, man, the teams across the league, like, they ain't won nothing yet.

Why are y'all crowning this?

Right.

But it just, it was like the Holy Trinity.

It just came together right away.

So, man, it was just.

It was crazy.

I couldn't believe.

When you look back at it now, it do take time to come together.

It came right together.

Like day one, we got out the gate like 7-0.

and oh like came out like didn't have no issues oh you know what our first issue was the first round of the playoffs we like when we went to game seven with the hawks that was our first adversity we had no adversity throughout the whole year we came out just smacking teams like out the gate first adversity was in the playoffs that's when we started learning more game seven first round

Second round, another game seven again versus LeBron.

Yeah.

Like, man, we like, oh, damn.

So once you guys got past that, you you like, we're going to win the championship.

100%.

Once we got past that young bull, I was like, it was all down here.

But then you think that, like, you get Detroit, but then you got to run into the bomba.

Yeah.

That's why I was telling people, it's hard to win.

Yes.

It's hard to win a chip.

Shannon, you know this.

Yes, for sure.

The hardest thing to do is win in professional sports and then win consistently.

Yeah.

Because you can have a little success, and sometimes a little success goes to people's head.

Right.

Because the hardest, you know, I remember

we won the first Super Bowl.

Gary Kubiak, who was our offensive coordinator, he called me now.

He's an 84.

He said, you know what, congratulations.

He congratulated.

He's like, he said, you know, the hardest thing to do, he says, to repeat.

I said, why you say that, cool?

He says, because everybody thinks they're the reason why they won.

He said, the people that cut the grass out there, the reason why you won is because look at who we cut that grass.

The people that craft services, that bring the food, it's them.

It's the people that clean, it's them.

Everybody thinks they're the reason why.

Yes, yes.

And that's not it.

We saw that with our team, you know, and you see it.

Like, once you win it,

people think they can do more.

They didn't do more before.

You know what I'm saying?

Yep.

Like, you saw that, huh?

We saw that, too, because people wanted more of a role now.

Yes.

They went from like, nah, I want to, nah, I want to, you know, I'm making the fries.

I want to make the burgers now.

Yeah, hey.

Like, Like, nah.

No, I don't wanna make no fries.

I want to be cashier.

I don't need to be mad at how they can't be greedy flopping on me.

Right.

I want to be, and who was at the cashier?

Now they want to be a manager.

Right, right.

Now you, like, come on, man.

Absolutely.

This is why it worked.

This is why,

you know, this is why this system worked.

Right.

She was doing that.

The super team.

You guys were, some people don't want to say it, but you guys were a super team because Ray was a perennial all-star.

For sure.

ticket was a perennial all-star and an mvp you were a perennial all-star

i would i would consider that a super team

did you consider it a super team at the time

the way we was

flying in these cities in our hotels it was packed outside it felt like it

That's what I do.

We were a super team.

Hey, look, that's what I do.

I didn't know at first, but when we landed in certain cities, and that crowd be out there in front of that hotel, yeah, we was a super team.

But you know what?

And what irks me is that I'm old enough to remember, is that it seems like fans are okay if a team put a super team together.

They've always been super teens.

What the hell you think the 80 Lakers were?

What do you think the 80 Celtics were?

Six.

They were super teens.

They just had Burt.

I mean, think about it.

Byrne is a 50th anniversary team.

So is Kevin McHale.

And so is Robert Perry.

they had dennis johnson yep they had tiny archibald five hall of famers they had uh uh uh bill walton yeah look at look at the lakers correen magic worthy wilts yeah bob mcadoo yeah i don't know if y'all noticed anything all those guys in the hall of fame so they were a super team they've always been super teams go back and look at the 60 celtics they had 11 hall of famers of 13 guys

look at the lakers so they've always been that it's just that guys now have better relationships.

They grew up like you and Kevin.

They play AAU ball together.

They're comfortable playing.

Well, Bird would have never wanted to play with Magic.

Well, Bird didn't have a relationship since he was nine, 10 years old with Magic.

So the only time they saw each other, maybe was the McDonald's All-America or once they got to the NBA.

Yeah.

But I think the problem what people have with the super teams today or with...

whenever, you know, Kevin and LeBron is how they came together.

Right.

You know, like ours was manufactured.

It wasn't like, hey, Kev, come play with me or Ray.

You know, it was Danny maneuvering the trades and hopefully things had to be.

Well, everybody ain't got Danny Aines, though.

You had to have the right pieces

and all of that.

And so I think people kind of frown upon like, you know, Bron going there and Durant going, you know, where he went.

But, you know, you got to have other great players to win.

You got to.

You got to.

Just think about it.

The Lakers won the NBA title and got the number one pick in the draft.

So just imagine if y'all that won the title and you get the next year, y'all get the number one pick in the draft.

They won the NBA title and got James Worthy.

How is that fair?

Yeah.

I don't know how they was maneuvering back then.

Jerry Buster and Red R.

Back, I don't know how they was maneuvering.

They was running the league, huh?

Because you know back then, you could like declare for the draft.

And there's and go, but Larry Bird declared for the draft and went back.

Yeah.

So that's how the Celtics kept his rights and the Celtics kept its rights.

Yeah, right.

So just think about it.

Be like, well, yeah, nah, I'm going back to school.

And they still got your rights.

Right.

So it was, and back then, you know, they had territorial rights.

So you come out, you go into a city that was close by you.

There's a lot of things that

if they were to do that now,

people lose their mind.

Yeah, there was some things.

Now, it was some chess going on back then for sure.

And that's why the league grew to what it grew into.

This concludes the first half of my conversation.

Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on.

Just simply go back to Club Shether profile, and I'll see you there.