Club Shay Shay - Miguel Part 2

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Speaker 8 Thank you for coming back. Part two is underway.

Speaker 8 What is money?

Speaker 8 What have you learned about money?

Speaker 10 You got to make money work for you.

Speaker 10 The saying is true often that, you know,

Speaker 10 you got to put up big money if you want to win big money. Yes.

Speaker 10 Debt is good.

Speaker 8 It's crazy. Yeah.
The right debt. Right.

Speaker 10 And of course, like you said, I love that you said this early, that it's a tool.

Speaker 10 The great thing is that even though I was raised really religiously, somehow I didn't didn't ever feel that money was bad.

Speaker 10 It was the pursuit of money that was bad.

Speaker 10 And I think a lot of

Speaker 10 my

Speaker 10 friends, and I think culturally,

Speaker 10 often what we get is that money is the root of all evil. And

Speaker 10 it's actually not, it's just a tool. It's the pursuit of money and making that

Speaker 10 the thing, the all end-all be-all seeing, all-being

Speaker 8 goal.

Speaker 10 That's what becomes the root of all evil. It's the pursuit of that at any expense.

Speaker 10 So, you know, just remaining, remaining balanced in the perspective that it's a tool and that the ultimate, the ultimate, like you said, is like freedom.

Speaker 10 It's like what we're really looking for is freedom. Yes.
And what does that actually mean? And everyone has a different definition of what that is, right?

Speaker 8 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 10 How about you? Like, what's the what is money for you?

Speaker 8 I buy very little for myself.

Speaker 10 A sister, a mom,

Speaker 8 a brother, my kids.

Speaker 8 I live. I got a house.

Speaker 8 I got two cars. Hadn't bought a car in five years.
Probably going to be another five years before I buy a car because

Speaker 8 I just get in the car and drive the same car.

Speaker 8 My battery is dead in my car now because I haven't driven. Haven't been home.

Speaker 8 So me,

Speaker 8 I've always,

Speaker 8 I'm a provider.

Speaker 8 I've always been that. From the time I was five or six years old, I was working in the field.
I would come home and give my grandmother $10.

Speaker 8 $10 back in 75, 76, 77 was a lot of money. But it was the fact it made me feel a sense of accomplishment.

Speaker 8 So I still feel that now that I'm able to provide for my family and take care of my family. So that's what it, that's what it, for me,

Speaker 8 that's what it provide.

Speaker 10 Yes.

Speaker 8 I've got to provide for my family. I got to make sure they're okay.

Speaker 8 Me, I'm going to be fine. Because if I got to eat ketchup with a knit needle, that's what I'll do.

Speaker 8 But they.

Speaker 10 Cereal with the fork.

Speaker 8 I just need to. I don't ever want my family.
I never wanted my grandmother to worry. I'll worry.

Speaker 8 I never wanted her to worry. I never want my sister, my kids, my brother, my mom.
I don't want them to worry. Let me stay up at night.
I don't sleep anyway. I got insomnia.

Speaker 8 So let me worry about all that stuff that you guys get to rest comfortable.

Speaker 8 worried about.

Speaker 8 It's like Colonel Nathan Jessop said when he had caffeine to think, hey,

Speaker 8 you need me on that wall.

Speaker 8 They need me on that wall. Word.
So they can rest comfortably.

Speaker 8 So that's what. So what are some of the purchase? When you got some money, you're like, damn.

Speaker 8 Growing up in Inglewood and San Pedro, you're like, give me some bread.

Speaker 8 What I would do? What I would do?

Speaker 10 I've never, in the same way, though, I've actually been kind of the same, same vibe. Like growing up, first job as soon as I could, 15, I was a tutor you know my my my parents were split up

Speaker 10 and my dad was a teacher

Speaker 10 but my mom quit her job to make sure that we were on a we didn't get we didn't go too you didn't get sidetracked yeah we didn't get the end and I was a knucklehead I wasn't like bad but I was mischievous yeah and so sometimes I would find myself in the wrong crowd

Speaker 10 and My mom just wouldn't have it, you know, and I think when she caught wind of that,

Speaker 10 my tendency to kind of like, oh, oh,

Speaker 8 let's go have some fun, this and that.

Speaker 10 She was like, no.

Speaker 10 So in a lot of ways, I took on responsibility early on to help with my brother, to help with my own.

Speaker 10 And I've, in the same way, been, I've taken the same view. So I don't really buy a lot for myself.

Speaker 8 Man,

Speaker 10 the only car I bought, I bought as a gift. I did.
as a gift to myself. It was an old F-430 Ferrari.
It's a car I wanted when I was younger. And it was already old.

Speaker 10 It was already old, but it's the only car I've ever bought and it's still there. I still got it.
I drive it every once in a while. But I'm not really big on a

Speaker 10 on

Speaker 8 you're not big, big on material things, huh?

Speaker 10 I'm not really a big, I don't collect watches.

Speaker 10 When you see me, it's pretty, pretty chill.

Speaker 10 But yeah, I do, I do care deeply about how my family is. So I think my biggest accomplishments, the biggest things, was buying my mama house.

Speaker 10 Like you said, like, that's a, I think all of us is like, yeah, you got mama house, you got getting, getting, you know, out of poverty, but like fixing, fixing this thing at Pop's house, or like, let's, you know, like, oh, you want that?

Speaker 10 Okay, bet at the crib, got you, let's do that. Or, my cousin needed to bail my cousin out, or hospital bills, or I actually feel more

Speaker 10 accomplished being able to do those things. Yes, um,

Speaker 10 Especially because it means so much more with your family. We're losing.
I feel like I'm losing my family so fast.

Speaker 10 And when my grandmothers passed, when my grandparents started to pass, and I started to see, like, my, I really started to pay attention. Like, everyone's getting older.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 I feel the same way because I'm at the age where, man, they old. That's me.
Yo, we're the same age.

Speaker 8 That's me. I'm like, oh, wait, that ain't old.

Speaker 8 All of a sudden, 50s is not old anymore. It used to be

Speaker 8 so old. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 Ooh, you have a hundred. You almost there.

Speaker 8 Shit. You almost there.
Now all of a sudden, man, that's a long way, man.

Speaker 8 You got plenty of time.

Speaker 10 Yeah. So much time.

Speaker 8 That's how we look at it.

Speaker 10 That's real. It's real.
But yeah,

Speaker 10 those are my more.

Speaker 10 I prefer to save my money for those things.

Speaker 10 And then in the meantime, again, in terms of like, I want to put it to work.

Speaker 10 I want it to work.

Speaker 8 So when things happen do everybody okay yeah if you could go back at any point in time

Speaker 8 I'm gonna give you a

Speaker 8 pen or an eraser right and you can go back and erase and do anything over would you

Speaker 10 no I think everything that I thought was kind of one of those ones that I was like oh I I

Speaker 10 would do it differently

Speaker 10 it's built character and it's actually fortified my

Speaker 10 my sense of self and it gave me an opportunity to um prove to myself that I'm proud of myself right to do things that make me proud of myself

Speaker 10 to hold myself accountable or to to go hey

Speaker 10 that wasn't right man get it together and then to go okay i'm gonna do it like this now and to have the conversations and to go you know i'm deeply sorry when i was wrong um to when i make you know when i anything that i felt was like oh i wish i I could do it better

Speaker 10 I look at it with so much Gratitude now more so because I've taken time to kind of go I've learned a lesson from it and I have an actionable way by which I will do it different now will that yield the result that I'm looking for

Speaker 10 I'm learning in real time, but I know one thing I'm proud of myself at paying attention to how I am to see things that do just like I said when you're when you're saying um whatever advice that you were giving it's really like,

Speaker 10 look at my

Speaker 10 morals and the things that I'm operating from, you know? And that's what's actually informing all of my action now. So, no, I wouldn't change it.
I wouldn't take that eraser. Yeah.
Because

Speaker 10 who's to say that I would ever get to this point where I would be like,

Speaker 8 I was thinking the same thing.

Speaker 8 If I could go back and change some things,

Speaker 8 I don't go to Savannah State. I probably don't meet the people that impacted me the most in my life.

Speaker 8 I had some great professors at Savannah State, from Haynes Walton to Norman Elmore to Joanne Green to

Speaker 8 Joyce McLemore.

Speaker 8 I don't meet these people. And maybe I don't go on the path that I'm on.
So I don't want to change it.

Speaker 8 Even if I could,

Speaker 8 I don't want to change it.

Speaker 10 You miss

Speaker 10 all of the great things that you've got in the world.

Speaker 8 That shape and make me, make us who we are.

Speaker 8 It is

Speaker 10 probably the coolest thing in looking back now, because I i think before when i would look at things like with

Speaker 10 a little bit of sadness i think in the beginning of the eight years between my last album and now

Speaker 10 looking back was painful and i think now it's with so much like okay gratitude i see where i was i see what i was doing i understand took me some time to really like uncover like what was going on there

Speaker 10 all right mike you were You were going through this. You had resentment about this.
You really were trying to figure yourself out here.

Speaker 10 and to look at all of the things and go man through the chaos through the chaos you've actually found a part of yourself that is worthy of celebrating and building on and preserving and look at you you're a good human being man you're able to address your your wrongs you're able to stand up on the things that you're right about and you fight for what you believe in you speak out about what you see that's not right you're You're deeply passionate.

Speaker 10 You're deeply happy. You have a pureness about what you do and how you approach things that mean that you care about this world and preserving something that it matters.

Speaker 10 That there's real hope and there's faith that is to be like nurtured regardless of what's happening.

Speaker 10 And somehow you've been able to do all that. Damn, you got a great family.
Your dad is the best. best teacher.
Your mom is the most beautiful, incredible, like supportive person in the world.

Speaker 10 You got a great latino family who gave you all you know what i'm saying you got poured into like all of it you're not like your grand like your nan just sacrifice you just start i go i go back now with so much more like

Speaker 10 gratitude uh

Speaker 10 i i couldn't take that eraser today

Speaker 8 couldn't do it do you ever find yourself sitting back um i find myself and i i really do it like when my brother and i talk because we talk a lot about how we grew up and growing up and him being there and he was always there for me do you find yourself looking back and like, damn,

Speaker 8 I come a mighty, mighty, mighty long way?

Speaker 8 Even in that dream, the gift that I gave to myself, it wasn't this good. Word.

Speaker 8 Ooh, say that. Cheers to that.

Speaker 8 Salute to that.

Speaker 10 Cheers to that. I will say,

Speaker 8 man,

Speaker 10 Third and Center, I grew up on Third and Center in San Pedro.

Speaker 10 I don't know if any, any, anyone from L.A., most people from L.A. don't even know where San Pedro is or where that is, in terms of like how deep and how far away that is from

Speaker 10 this that we're experiencing.

Speaker 10 It's one of the most obscure places.

Speaker 10 And from there,

Speaker 10 by way of like delusion and passion and nurturing,

Speaker 10 lots of bad decisions lots of great decisions yes

Speaker 10 a lot of lost sleep and sacrifice that we've talked about

Speaker 10 man I look at it and I go

Speaker 10 who could have ever imagined and yet I knew yeah

Speaker 10 and and how dope it is like when you when you work with young up-and-coming talent on the field off the field how important it is to have that and I think that's like the

Speaker 10 I think why I watch, you know, Shay Shay

Speaker 10 is I love to see

Speaker 10 how incredibly delusional everyone had to be and all the things they accomplished and the greatness that they've achieved to be to sit here across from

Speaker 10 you.

Speaker 10 You know what I mean? It's like we've, we've devoted ourselves. And everyone that we get to work with is why when I step into a room, I never, I don't treat people more or less.
Everyone is the.

Speaker 8 Yeah, everybody's here for a reason.

Speaker 10 We all have a real purpose. And that's the beauty of this whole thing.
And that's why, you know,

Speaker 10 I'll never want to take the eraser and, you know, and do it. Yeah.
You know,

Speaker 10 we, we worked hard to get here. And

Speaker 10 I believe that's a, that's, that's what this whole thing is about. You know what I'm saying? It's about looking at all the chaos, all the chaos that we experience in each iteration of our life.

Speaker 10 And taking that and building on it and refining and honing on on what is valuable and what's worth preserving and what's worth letting go.

Speaker 10 So, you know,

Speaker 10 whether it's, you know, becoming the kind of voice that says, okay, this is not right in the world or what have you, or if it's just about every day going, this is not right right here, let me address it.

Speaker 10 I think the purpose is always, we're getting better and we're doing it better.

Speaker 10 And I'm so blessed to be around so many who do it every day every day you know I'm saying that's that that's the best part you work with Kendrick Lamar J.

Speaker 8 Cole Travis Scott Mariah Carey Alicia Keys ASAP Rocky Lil Yachty Wale

Speaker 8 obviously that's a very eclectic very very different group all bangers

Speaker 8 all

Speaker 8 so when you so when you when you go work with somebody what's your what's your mindset okay we go in there so today is today is the day and tomorrow I'm going to meet with Mariah I'm going to meet with this Alicia Keys or I'm going to meet with this person so what's your mindset the night before you go meet with said person to sit down and try to come together on a project?

Speaker 10 I don't even, I never, I'm more like, I'm going to walk into a space, I'm going to be myself.

Speaker 10 Whatever happens, that's all we ever did. Yeah, that's all we ever had to do is to just go in and go.
I did the work.

Speaker 10 I trust the work. You know, I trust the work.
So, I've been really, really fortunate to kind of of like

Speaker 10 get these moments where with people who also believe in their craft in the same way and also there's a lot of trust.

Speaker 10 Yes, it's like when you get on the line, you know, it's like anytime you line up and everybody's on the same accord, and we're like, all right, well, shit, we done rehearsed this.

Speaker 10 We ran this play a million times.

Speaker 8 We're trying to play and come together.

Speaker 10 Hey, I trust you. I trust you.
We, let's go. We're going to do it.

Speaker 10 You know, and so I think there's a little bit of all of the work that gets anyone into a session that leads to them being in that room and going, hey, I fuck with you. I love what you do.

Speaker 10 Trust what you do. It's going to be dope.
I'm going to do what I do. It's going to be dope.

Speaker 10 Let's make the best shit that we can.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 So is that, so

Speaker 8 I read that you and Alicia, your project, you guys were in Jamaica. So how does that, how does that, how does that work? So

Speaker 8 when you guys come together, they invite you, they say, Miguel,

Speaker 8 we want you on this project. So do they tell you before you get there what they're thinking is, what they're trying to do? You don't realize what's good.

Speaker 8 You don't understand what the direction that they want to go until you actually get there. Yeah, and then you hear their vision for this project.
And he's like, okay, okay. Okay.

Speaker 10 Yeah, the like for that for where

Speaker 10 in that example, this is different because Alicia's, she's going to, she's like, bring you into her world. Okay.
You know, and so at this time, we got on the plane and we got on a prop plane.

Speaker 10 Me and Drew was on the plane.

Speaker 8 Like the dude with the, with the,

Speaker 10 the dude took our bags. He was like, welcome.
Thank you very much. Took our bags, put him in the back of the plane, took off

Speaker 10 the vest, and then jumped in the pilot seat.

Speaker 8 And we looked at the ball. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 10 Are we going to be all right?

Speaker 8 Hold on. We understand that Jamaicans have a lot of jobs, but

Speaker 8 this ain't what we feel.

Speaker 10 I love that they're hard working.

Speaker 8 Yeah, you take your baggage. And you fly in the plane?

Speaker 10 I said, okay, wait a second.

Speaker 10 We prayed.

Speaker 8 We prayed and prayed.

Speaker 10 It's a three-person prop plane. And we go and finally we get there.
And, of course, Alicia's there with the biggest smile. And she's super welcoming.
Swiss is there. We eat great food.

Speaker 10 And she brings you into her world. That's a different thing.

Speaker 10 She has a vision. And

Speaker 10 for her, she's an artist. She's an album artist.
Yes. You know what I mean? And Alicia obviously has had massive songs.
And of course, but she's one of those artists that is like, she's crafting.

Speaker 10 She's really chefing when she gives you an album. That experience is different than you know when you go in and it's like, okay, we're trying to make a, like, we're trying to make a banger.

Speaker 10 We want to, we want a song that's going to hit everything and everybody, and they're going to love it, they're going to go crazy. Different headspace.
Um, but I always, I always go in with, like,

Speaker 10 what's what is the, um,

Speaker 10 what is the, what is at the fringe of what you want to say and how you want to feel? And like, how can I actually just be the person to say it?

Speaker 10 Um,

Speaker 10 and that always has has worked out. So yeah, I just want to want to, I'm an enabler when I step into the room.

Speaker 10 Even if I'm not on the record,

Speaker 10 when I step into the room, I'm an enabler.

Speaker 8 I'm like,

Speaker 10 what is the most potent, wild, pure, honest thing that we could say or you could say right now that is like,

Speaker 10 no, we want to hear that. We want to feel that as a fan.

Speaker 10 So that's how I step in.

Speaker 8 I read you say Kendrick is one of your inspirations.

Speaker 8 I mean,

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Speaker 8 I think Kendrick's from Compton, right? Yeah. Compton, you're from like Englewood, grew up in San Pedro.

Speaker 8 Did you know Kendrick before? Like,

Speaker 8 were you familiar with him before?

Speaker 10 No, no, no, no. I met Kendrick through music.
And I would say, like, he's one of many. You know, I would say a lot.
I'm inspired by my peers

Speaker 10 in the sense that I love watching them go.

Speaker 10 I love watching

Speaker 8 the world grow

Speaker 10 because of them.

Speaker 10 You know, I think Kendrick put a lot of people on to Compton in a different way in this generation. Yes.

Speaker 8 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 that's real, that's the world, you know, knows about Compton and he reps it super hard. But it's the same way that there's plenty of artists who rep where they come from.

Speaker 10 And have put those places on the map that I just, I just go like, man, I'm inspired by that.

Speaker 10 I love the education part of bringing people into your world.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 yeah, I'm working constantly to refine how I do that. So, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8 Of all the artists that you've worked with, who would you like to collab and do an album with?

Speaker 8 Of all the artists that you've worked with, they say, you know what, you know what, Miguel, you know what? Let's let's let's do this album.

Speaker 10 Man, I was just texting Cole.

Speaker 21 Really?

Speaker 10 I was just texting Cole. It's work.

Speaker 10 I think a collab album with Cole is like one one that they've been asking for.

Speaker 10 Oh, bro, I'm sitting here on Shay Shay.

Speaker 8 Tell him he's welcome anytime. Yeah.

Speaker 10 In an interview, real quick.

Speaker 10 But Shay said, what up?

Speaker 10 I think Cole would be special.

Speaker 10 I want to do another project with Blue.

Speaker 10 I did a project with,

Speaker 10 I'm on a project with

Speaker 10 Blue. I don't know if you know who Blue and Exile are.

Speaker 8 Blue,

Speaker 10 I met Blue when I was maybe like 14.

Speaker 10 We went to high school together.

Speaker 8 Yeah, okay. I thought you were going to say Blue Cantrell, but clearly you're talking about somebody else.

Speaker 10 No, no, we're, but, um, but Blue is like, has a classic hip-hop album. Blue and Exile, Below the Heavens.
Shay, listen to this album.

Speaker 8 Okay, I'm going to take it out.

Speaker 10 This is a one. This is like, when you get on the plane, you can listen to this.

Speaker 8 Yeah, see, I like to slow it down. I mean, yeah, and it's

Speaker 8 vibey.

Speaker 10 super, it's, it's, it's a good one, and it's like, it's a headphone album, so it's good for travel. Yeah, no, you know, so when you go back to the crib, yeah, and have to charge your car back up,

Speaker 10 but it's a, but I want to do it, I want to do another album blue, okay, but I want a proper album, but I love to do it with um

Speaker 10 with Cole, I think Cole would be really, really special, especially because we're we're um

Speaker 10 I think we're aligned in a lot of the

Speaker 10 human ways. You know, it's like, nah, like, we're trying to be good human beings, you know.
Not that anyone else isn't, but I just know, I know him enough that way where I'm like, oh, no, yeah,

Speaker 10 it'll be dope. Yeah.
Are you the king of

Speaker 8 hip-hop collabs?

Speaker 8 I don't know.

Speaker 10 I wouldn't say the king. I think there's a...

Speaker 10 I'm definitely, I definitely have some special ones. I got some special ones for sure.
Yeah. Like,

Speaker 8 you wrote for Usher. I think...
Did you write for Usher, Mary J? Jaheim?

Speaker 10 Yes, I did. Uh-huh.
Jaheim,

Speaker 10 Mary J.

Speaker 8 Music, Soul Child.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 10 We've done some ones.

Speaker 8 Did I?

Speaker 10 I don't think I do it for, I don't think I did for music, though. You didn't do anything for music? I don't think so.
Can we double-check that? There might be records.

Speaker 10 I've written records and I don't even.

Speaker 8 Wow.

Speaker 10 It's true.

Speaker 8 Make sure you get that credit now.

Speaker 10 That's why I turn, when you turn 40, you forget things that you did.

Speaker 8 Make sure you get that credit. Um,

Speaker 8 how is it

Speaker 8 because it's very interesting to me because, like, like when I get a script, let's just say I got to read something for this pro this product

Speaker 8 and it comes out a certain way, but I have to add some of it, I add live because I needed to sound like I talk.

Speaker 10 Yeah, it's you, it's you.

Speaker 8 So, when you write, let's just say for the sake of argument, you're writing for Mary J

Speaker 8 You're male, she's female, yeah, or Beyonce, Beyonce, right?

Speaker 8 How? Because it's it's funny how you're you're able to do that. Because

Speaker 8 I look at Hove.

Speaker 8 He wrote Steel D-R-E for Dr. Dre.

Speaker 8 You couldn't tell me Dre didn't walk, didn't write that because it sounds just like,

Speaker 8 how the hell? That takes a special talent to write a song

Speaker 8 that you're not going to sing. Someone else is going to sing it, but you're writing it in their voice.
Valid.

Speaker 10 Yeah, valid. And it takes a special talent to be able to take that and make it their own.
Yes.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 there's an art to that as well.

Speaker 10 I think I always,

Speaker 10 I think, in terms of, like I said, I'm an enabler.

Speaker 10 I'm like mischievous, though. Like, I'm your friend that's going to be like, yeah, we should, though.
Like, let's go.

Speaker 10 If you have an idea and you're like, man, I don't know if I should do this, but I kind of want to go do this.

Speaker 8 You that little thing on the shoulder, like, yeah, we should do this. I'm the friend.

Speaker 10 But not in a way that's like,

Speaker 10 I'm also realistic and I'm also, you know,

Speaker 10 I'm paying attention to all the things, but I think that there's something special about excitement.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 I honor excitement. Right.
When you're excited about something, that is an indication that

Speaker 10 it's like hitting your

Speaker 10 spirit.

Speaker 10 It's like you're like, ooh, I'm like, I want to do this, you know, and I think

Speaker 10 more. I didn't realize this one, sorry.

Speaker 10 It's cool.

Speaker 8 Sorry.

Speaker 8 He called it?

Speaker 10 Yeah, I just told him I was.

Speaker 8 He would call it. Yeah,

Speaker 8 he just, he just hung it.

Speaker 10 There's something about excitement that's special and that I really do honor. So

Speaker 10 I think about what excites the artist,

Speaker 10 what would excite the artist,

Speaker 10 and I'm a fan first. So I'm thinking about them in a fan way and what I know about them and what they seem to resonate with the most.
And I'm thinking of anything that may excite them.

Speaker 10 And then I'm thinking of what their audience may be excited by. So, like,

Speaker 10 for example, for Rocket, for Beyonce, yes, and I was going the next, but Let Me Sit This Ass on You

Speaker 10 is the first line.

Speaker 8 Damn.

Speaker 10 Which one of us is not thinking? And I'm sorry, this is a long time ago. Don't also the whiskey kind of

Speaker 10 call might have me, you you know, speaking.

Speaker 10 But

Speaker 10 I'm thinking in terms of like,

Speaker 10 as a man listening to Beyonce,

Speaker 10 what do I want to hear? What excites me? And then I'm going,

Speaker 10 what is she trying to convey?

Speaker 10 And at the time, I think she was wanting to, she was, from what I understood, is that she really wanted to lean into the fact that she's a grown woman and she was in, you know what I mean? So

Speaker 10 I'm listening to her tell me, like, okay, this is where I'm at. I'm I'm going, okay, bet, bet, bet, bet, bet.

Speaker 10 What's exciting? To her, exciting was showing that she's like, you know, leaning into her feminine and she's being sexual and I'm grown and I'm owning my sexuality and this and that.

Speaker 10 And I'm going, well, shit, I'm a fan. And I'm what guys, like, what do we want to hear?

Speaker 8 And what do girls?

Speaker 8 Even what do women want to hear?

Speaker 10 What do her audience want to say for themselves too?

Speaker 10 What's exciting? Shit, let me sit there. Let me sit this ass on you bet i'm gonna go with the thing that sounds the most exciting so that's where quickie came from um

Speaker 8 that's where do you ever get afraid that you're gonna write something like what are you thinking no

Speaker 10 yeah uh that's why a lot of songs are not out a lot

Speaker 10 we'll keep those in the bault

Speaker 8 but um but no i think that's where i come from excitement like what's he said because that's interesting because writing a song for a woman when you're a male and i'm not saying obviously there are a lot of there are a lot of male songwriters that write for for women but right how how how difficult is that because you you don't you don't think like they think you don't see things how they see them but right on this song i've got to right

Speaker 10 um it's only how i've only written four four four specifically maybe like again the um like beautiful i didn't start that song thinking about writing for mariah care

Speaker 10 i wrote that song actually as a song for my album.

Speaker 10 And it actually didn't, it didn't fit the tone overall.

Speaker 10 And then we adapted it to better fit Mariah.

Speaker 10 And she wrote on the record to make it fit her, right?

Speaker 10 Same thing with B, but B was a little closer because she was telling me,

Speaker 10 and she was telling all of the people that she was working with where she was at and what she was looking for. So I think

Speaker 10 it just depends on the situation.

Speaker 10 And I think with female, which is one of the things I want to explore more is working with more, like collaborating more with

Speaker 10 just artists in general, but like, I feel like there's an EP with female artists like in

Speaker 10 there.

Speaker 10 Writing on their behalf, I think, is about the conversation that we have and what they want to communicate. So it's more about them and what they want to say.
And then me enabling that.

Speaker 8 Was Rocket inspired by D'Angelo's Rest Your Soul? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 8 How does it feel?

Speaker 10 What ballad at this point is not inspired by Untitled? Like, there's really...

Speaker 10 I think we'll always go back to the church of D'Angelo. And that song is a...

Speaker 10 It is a...

Speaker 10 Some artists have songs that are like statements of their artistry and what they represent. And

Speaker 10 that will forever be like a

Speaker 10 mainstay of the

Speaker 10 power and soul and funk in connection to the legacy of all of those things in his predecessors, our predecessors,

Speaker 10 that live forever in his music. And also his ability to do it in his own

Speaker 10 new way. It's what makes him.

Speaker 10 Yeah, it's his, it's a,

Speaker 10 what is the word for that? There's a word for when things are just theirs.

Speaker 10 But it's, it's one of those, you know, it's, it's that. So

Speaker 8 yeah, for sure.

Speaker 10 I mean,

Speaker 10 there's probably not a session that I don't go into where we're not like

Speaker 10 just even in conversation talking about

Speaker 10 untitled.

Speaker 8 And voodoo. Yeah.
It is so sad that such a young man

Speaker 8 gone at such a young age.

Speaker 10 But isn't this crazy, though? Like, our health is

Speaker 10 this, this could go in a million different directions, Shay. Like, we could talk about how systematically, you know, our health is being tampered with every day.

Speaker 10 And it has been for decades, especially amongst blacks.

Speaker 10 You know,

Speaker 10 the Tuskegee,

Speaker 10 those experiments, we're all aware about that.

Speaker 10 But are we paying attention to how the water is being tampered with? Are we paying attention to how

Speaker 10 the produce in this country is not nearly at the level of

Speaker 10 the potency in terms of vitamin and all that stuff? It's not as potent as it was before decades ago.

Speaker 10 We've got things in our air that are being sprinkled from above,

Speaker 10 aluminum and so on and so forth. And that's verified.
We have our weather being manipulated. We have, you know, it's a lot of things that have to do with our health that it's crazy right you know it's

Speaker 10 and and so when when i when we hear

Speaker 10 an artist like this being

Speaker 10 you know having passed so early because of cancer

Speaker 10 what is it

Speaker 10 what's this it's crazy man it is it's crazy also it says a lot about how we we gotta we we should we should

Speaker 10 be talking about our health more often i think there's a big big i mean look i'm going to talk i haven't i'm turning 40 i have yet to go do like prostate oh yeah all that stuff i'm late i'm a prostate cancer survivor man

Speaker 8 but i when did you find out well i started getting i started getting tested early uh i started getting testing at the age of 35.

Speaker 8 my dad died at 39 and from prostate cancer no he had oral cancer throat cancer okay so

Speaker 8 and uh he had two brothers that didn't make it to 50. so it ran in my family so let me me, I started getting testing at 35 and went in for a routine colonoscopy.
And

Speaker 8 my doctor, I knew something was wrong when my doctor didn't call me back.

Speaker 10 It's already been some days.

Speaker 8 Yeah, this was in 2016. I was diagnosed in 2016, had the surgery in 2017.
And I've been clear ever since. Wow, man.

Speaker 8 Yes. Oh, man, I go to the doctor now.

Speaker 8 I go to the doctor. For what they call, what this premium cost? Or I'm going.

Speaker 8 Let me go to the doctor. Listen.

Speaker 10 But hey, I'm going to take advantage of it for real. Listen.
Come on.

Speaker 10 It's crazy.

Speaker 10 It's not a part of the conversation.

Speaker 10 You know,

Speaker 10 on both sides of my family, there's been cancer. So I should be paying attention.
And yet I know, and I have not, you know, and why is it not something that we are talking about more? It's crazy.

Speaker 8 Well, we couldn't, well, growing up, there are not a whole lot of blacks that could afford insurance. So we didn't go to the doctor unless Jesus was sitting on the foot of the bed.

Speaker 10 That's valid.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I mean, okay, I saw him at the foot of the bed. I got to go to the doctor now.
That's valid. But before then, we weren't going because we didn't have health insurance.

Speaker 8 You put your family in debt forever and forever to pay those bills.

Speaker 8 And we weren't going to burden.

Speaker 8 We looked at it as a burden. The one thing we're not going to do is burden our family with debt.
Yeah.

Speaker 8 So we wouldn't go. That's it.
Yeah. So now I'm going.

Speaker 8 I'm going. I go through my deductible.
But first two months of the year, I'm going through my deductible. Let's run it.

Speaker 8 Let's go now. Let's go.

Speaker 10 Run it. That's why you got to go to Thailand and get all your shit checked out.

Speaker 8 Knock it off too much. Look it up.

Speaker 10 I'm telling you.

Speaker 8 For real.

Speaker 8 You wrote for TT, Tiana Taylor. Did I? No, she covered your song, The Girl With the Tattoo.

Speaker 10 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 8 How does that feel? Let me ask you: how does that feel when someone covers one of your songs?

Speaker 10 You just like, that's ultimate. That's that's ultimate

Speaker 8 nod.

Speaker 10 You know, it's like a tip of the cows. Yeah, it's a really dope nod.

Speaker 10 And also,

Speaker 8 her voice is incredible. Yeah.
Yeah. I love it.
She's incredible with everything. She's like,

Speaker 8 she can sing, she can dance, she can choreogue.

Speaker 10 I honestly think when,

Speaker 8 I think she's going to

Speaker 8 Oscar is in. Yes.

Speaker 10 Tay honest, that's like.

Speaker 8 She can really, she can theoretically, she can get an egot. For sure.
Emmy Grammy, Tony Oscar. She can do it all.
There's really nothing she can't do.

Speaker 10 Exactly. Like creative directing, too.
I'd be like, man, she's shooting other people's videos, directing other people's music.

Speaker 8 I'm like, she's talented. Man,

Speaker 10 when someone covers a record, or like even when they're asking for like a, you know, they want to clear, clear a sample or a song, I think that's like a nod to

Speaker 10 I

Speaker 10 talk to my younger self. Yeah.
And I go,

Speaker 8 see,

Speaker 8 you are right.

Speaker 10 And then that in itself is like a, keep going. Whatever you're doing now, just keep going.
They'll figure it.

Speaker 10 It will be heard and felt by who it's meant to be felt by. And that's, what's the most like gratifying.

Speaker 8 You covered

Speaker 8 Scissors the weekend.

Speaker 8 Would you like to do something with Scissors? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, why not? Why not?

Speaker 8 I'd love that.

Speaker 10 I think the fans would love that.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 But there's a lot of people.

Speaker 10 I think there's

Speaker 10 a lot of, like I was saying, there's a lot of collabs that should happen.

Speaker 10 There's a lot that should happen.

Speaker 8 Do you have your people reach out to their people? Or if you bump into them, let's do something together.

Speaker 10 It's always like that. Everyone's always like, let's do something together.

Speaker 8 But, you know, sometimes they just be playing. Like, hey, man, give me a call.
Hey, here's my number. And you change the number tomorrow.

Speaker 8 It'd be like that.

Speaker 8 It's like that.

Speaker 10 Come on, man. It's like that in every, all of our industries that people be like, y'all, y'all.

Speaker 10 Look, I'm going to tell you, I've done it before myself. I have also been the one that's been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool, cool.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I'm going to tell you that. That's not going to happen.
That's not going to happen.

Speaker 8 I don't know that fool. You know what, though?

Speaker 10 I've actually decided in my life now that I don't want to make music with people that I can't. go have coffee with or have a drink with.
Okay.

Speaker 10 I'll probably be more likely to be like, Shay, let's jump in the studio.

Speaker 8 That's what I'm talking about. You gotta, we have a drink together, you feel me?

Speaker 10 Like,

Speaker 8 a couple drinks now,

Speaker 8 yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 I mean, I would with some artists because what I've learned is like

Speaker 10 what happens is you get in the studio and then you start to learn the motivation is different.

Speaker 10 Their motivation is what they're looking for out of this, out of this thing, may be different than what you're looking for.

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Speaker 10 For what you're actually showing up for and then once the music is made then you got to show up for the video and then you got to show up for the you know you want to you want to promote it and this and that and then if the song isn't really representative of what you both actually are like

Speaker 10 if there's not a real thing that you really are like oh no we're trying we're trying to make music that matters right if they're like no I just want the hit and you're like well I want to say something that is different

Speaker 10 interesting or like hasn't been done before or you know whatever Oh, wow. Look, would love to be impactful, but I'm not chasing that.

Speaker 10 Well, then you come out with a product that ends up being some weird mix, and then you still have to promote it. And I'm

Speaker 8 not sure if that shit. Yeah.

Speaker 8 You did a karaoke of Rihanna, my girl.

Speaker 8 You want to work with Ree?

Speaker 10 You know what? We've talked about working so many times, bro.

Speaker 10 I would kill that. Like, I would.
produce an entire album for her that would go crazy.

Speaker 8 You think, man, Ree, Ree, she like really in a family. She got kids now.
I don't know.

Speaker 10 I don't know if she's really into it. Right.
Really like that. And actually, what would be crazy, I would EP an album for her and Rocky.
That shit would be insane. Because I have both.
Right.

Speaker 10 I have both.

Speaker 10 Like the energy, I'm like, oh no, and I've, I've worked.

Speaker 10 I would crush an album for both of them for sure.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 I know you saw when Jamie did Sure Thing and Blame It.

Speaker 10 Bruh.

Speaker 8 I just saw uh jamie at the blue note too he uh you know what it's funny we used to have a uh uh a southern spot at savannah state called a blue note where you go get fried chicken and and and and gizzards livers and fries uh it's in thunderbolt georgia it's right walking distance from savannah state campus so when you said the blue note it made me think of that bro did you for real gizzards for real yeah oh you don't eat gizzards not really

Speaker 10 not really huh i've never had gizzards really how are they prepared fried everything fried is good

Speaker 8 Boot daddy is. The right.

Speaker 8 Hey.

Speaker 8 Man, what is that? It's fried. Okay, it's good.
It's good.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 8 It's busting. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8 But

Speaker 8 would you do something with Jamie? Fox? Yeah.

Speaker 10 That's also one of those people where you can sit and talk. Like,

Speaker 10 Jamie is one of the coolest.

Speaker 8 He is. All he wants to do is joke, though, man.
He got

Speaker 8 a conversation without you joking all the time.

Speaker 10 Yeah, but I mean, it's the best. It's the best.

Speaker 8 he is man he unbelievable yeah

Speaker 10 i would love to write write with him work with him um

Speaker 10 i think he's he's also one of those ones that's like he's one of our talents that i feel are

Speaker 10 even still unrealized in terms of yeah people don't realize realities their impact yeah like jamie on the jamie fox show

Speaker 10 was incredible yeah Jamie before that

Speaker 10 stand up on in living color and stand up incredible then you move forward and you're like, his career as an actor,

Speaker 10 incredible.

Speaker 10 And then in music, incredible. So you're just like, oh, man.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
He might be one of the most talented people that's ever been created.

Speaker 10 And not really

Speaker 10 trying to be like, nah, I am.

Speaker 8 I'm the. No, no, he really.

Speaker 8 But, like you said, I mean, from stand-up to

Speaker 8 acting, I mean, when he did Ray,

Speaker 8 and he did uh uh what is it the pianist with the piano when he was the uh the guy the homeless guy he i mean what can he do he's um

Speaker 8 yeah

Speaker 10 the uh the range

Speaker 8 that range is like i don't know if we've seen someone with range like that it's like when we say acting range when you look at a tom cruise or you look at robin williams rest his soul you look at a samuel l jackson yeah guys that i'm talking about can make you laugh can be serious

Speaker 10 robin is actually a great one. Cause that's like, yeah, because that's the kind of like he could do a kids movie and he could be a villain and he can make you laugh like it's your your family.

Speaker 10 You know, it's like, it's, it's crazy.

Speaker 8 He was incredible.

Speaker 8 What's your favorite song right now? Like,

Speaker 8 who you listen, who, who's Miguel listening to in the car?

Speaker 10 Right now, I've been listening to Show Me the Body, which is a,

Speaker 10 and I'm waiting for them to put new music out. I think they just dropped the album, but Show Me the Body is a, is like a punk band from New York.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah. So you got a very eclectic taste in music.
Because I, I mean, a lot of people.

Speaker 10 I was like, you were not expecting that.

Speaker 8 No, I was not expecting that. I, because I, some of the groups that you're naming, I'm like, I ain't never heard of it.

Speaker 10 You know what? The new, um, the new turnstile album is fire? What? Turnstile. No.

Speaker 10 Um, punk band. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Um, so you're you're you're in the punk band.

Speaker 10 I grew up in San Pedro, which is a art punk haven so when punk music was really like kind of hitting its peak

Speaker 10 san pedro in the united states was a place where like

Speaker 10 the more avant-garde punk music was really like flourishing okay there's a band called the minute men that come from san pedro and i grew up maybe four blocks away from like one of the premier venues that they would come and play.

Speaker 10 It's also like a it's also a big skate city. So a lot of skaters would come to San Pedro.
And I also grew up kind of at the apex of where all of that comes together. So, punk music,

Speaker 10 classic rock from

Speaker 10 my father's side, and then solo music all have a big influence. And just alternative music overall

Speaker 10 have a big influence on the sound. And that's why you hear a lot of like heavy guitar in my music, why

Speaker 10 even melodically I approach music the way that I do.

Speaker 8 Would you do a cover song?

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 What did I cover more recently? I covered Careless Whisperer for the Rocky.

Speaker 8 George Michael, huh? Yeah.

Speaker 10 Yeah, we did that.

Speaker 8 But like on record. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Because, I mean, you got to look.

Speaker 8 You got to be really, really good when you do a cover.

Speaker 8 People go say you should have left that alone. That's valid.

Speaker 10 That's true. They get real like.

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 10 And I'm also protective of my favorite artist. Yeah.
You should have left that alone. Don't touch that.

Speaker 8 Now, the guy that did the cover, and you like, he sounded better is Luther

Speaker 8 or Whitney because Whitney take your song you're like Whitney took a dollar you should not you should

Speaker 8 it took Dolly

Speaker 8 I'll always love you that was Dolly Fart come on and and Luther took like seven or eight you like I don't know who sung that before Luther but they should have left that alone I don't think I have the voice for that honestly I don't I don't I'm I don't think that I'm um

Speaker 10 but see like D'Angelo covered

Speaker 10 he always had a cover on his record you know um cruising yes you know smokey robins

Speaker 10 yep you know um africa we're looking we're listening to records and africa on voodoo is like a one yeah it's a it's very it's like i will always go to that record on a sunday you know i don't know um

Speaker 10 i don't know that i have the the voice for it but i i would i have

Speaker 8 i don't know if i have i'm brave enough to put it on record record record yeah because hey because people go you should leave that alone man

Speaker 8 That's rough.

Speaker 8 Like, what would I cover? That's a good question. Let me ask you this.

Speaker 8 When people, because it's funny, because I talked to LL and I talked to a lot of different people that have had people do their songs or sample their songs. And I say, let me ask you this.

Speaker 8 When someone comes and says, I want to do this, do you have to hear

Speaker 8 their song before you like you give it clearance? So if somebody came to you and they say, man, let me check this problem.

Speaker 8 I want to do it. You want to take your song and do with it? Do something with it.
Hell yeah. No, I got to hear it.
Nah.

Speaker 8 Because I had Bobby Brown on the Bobby say, man, if I had known, I wouldn't let Brittany do Bamparai.

Speaker 8 I mean, come on, Bobby's like, nah, bad. I mean, it kind of fit, though.
Yeah. It kind of fit.
I get it. I get it.

Speaker 10 In terms of, you know, you know, also.

Speaker 8 But I mean, he probably liked the check, though.

Speaker 10 The check was probably nice.

Speaker 8 Really?

Speaker 10 Listen, we're not mad at the bag. But yeah, sometimes it's not really worth it.

Speaker 8 But, yeah, I do have to hear it. Right.
I I got to hear it.

Speaker 10 Because sometimes they are not.

Speaker 8 Yeah, they be joking. They be trying to joke on your song, and I ain't putting it.
No, we can't do that. No.

Speaker 1 You're not about to take this.

Speaker 10 Nah.

Speaker 8 Have you ever had a song stolen?

Speaker 10 Song stolen?

Speaker 10 No, but I've been a part of some songs where I didn't get credit that I thought I should have. Nothing that I would, I would, I'll never say it.

Speaker 10 But,

Speaker 10 but, you know, I came up as a writer. Right.

Speaker 10 It was the way that they explained to me that I would actually make my way to being an artist.

Speaker 10 You know, people, what you're trying to do is too left. No one knows what you look like or what you are.
Like, you're too ambiguous and, you know, nigga, you're weird, dress on weird.

Speaker 8 So they were like, right, right, be a writer.

Speaker 10 And that's how you'll carve a path for yourself.

Speaker 10 And in that process, I definitely missed some credits that I should have gotten.

Speaker 10 But there's always get back.

Speaker 10 I think it always comes back. So,

Speaker 10 yeah,

Speaker 10 it's just a part of the part of the thing. And

Speaker 10 that's why

Speaker 10 I started S1C. I started S1C for the same reason, for the same reason of like, don't want people to be taken advantage of, be educated about the industries that we are

Speaker 10 a part of making our work seen and that

Speaker 10 really

Speaker 10 um enable the stories to be told but going with leverage and knowledge about how they work right so we're never agreeing to or acquiescing to things that in the long term don't benefit the creative freedom or the financial freedom that we deserve you know

Speaker 8 so let me

Speaker 8 was your introduction to mainstream reality tv when you was on bt yes Well, I had already seen, we had seen like, you know, the real world. There were a couple seasons of real world.

Speaker 8 That was the first introduction of reality TV real world yeah yeah yeah but um

Speaker 10 but in terms of being on television and being a part of that process and like

Speaker 10 narrative being a part of someone's narrative that you have no clue about I just when they don't paint you as favorable bruh I was I was the villain yeah but they told they told you up yeah they did but you know I I again I always say like it always comes back like it always works out That's why when you asked earlier, you were like, would you take an eraser to it?

Speaker 10 And I'm like, you know what? No.

Speaker 10 Because in the end, I always end up, the truth always is always like, look, when I'm wrong, I say

Speaker 8 I was wrong.

Speaker 10 Hey, and look, if people are going to hate me for that, when I was wrong.

Speaker 10 That's their prerogative.

Speaker 8 That's cool.

Speaker 10 Everybody that's supposed to be with me and pay attention and support and whatever, they here because they really care and that's what they want to do.

Speaker 10 I actually would be wasting my time trying to to convince people who don't want to.

Speaker 10 So, cool, that's great, that's fine. But it always comes back around.

Speaker 10 I was on this show, and they painted me as a villain. They told me that I was walking into a situation that they were looking for a lead singer.

Speaker 8 Huh? How do you go from a lead singer to a villain?

Speaker 10 So, I walked in and they're like, yo, so we're looking to bring in a lead singer. We found all the supporting members.
We just need a lead singer. And I'm 14.

Speaker 8 I'm like, bet 15

Speaker 10 you got the right one all right bet i'm down i'm ready i never considered being in a group but i'll be a lead singer bet

Speaker 10 so i go in and um and yeah it's it's a thing they were they had already had their group together and to them it was painted as this guy's coming in to take someone's spot oh so we don't know who it's gonna be but we're gonna see and one of you is gonna have to go home really and so their whole interfacing with me from Jump was like, Who's this?

Speaker 8 Like, who

Speaker 8 are you coming in?

Speaker 10 We've been hanging out, we've been, we earned our spots here. And who are you to come in here? And that was the position that they took.

Speaker 10 It's so crazy that that's kind of like still one of those things, but yeah, that was my introduction. I learned very quickly the uh, it's TV and editing, right?

Speaker 8 You know what I mean?

Speaker 10 It's editing.

Speaker 8 So, they made you look really bad. They cut

Speaker 8 they told you up, though. I don't think they made me look that bad, though.
They did,

Speaker 8 They did. They did.

Speaker 10 But, you know, shit.

Speaker 8 We here.

Speaker 8 So let's get your image when you first came out. They had you with tall tees.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Bro.

Speaker 8 You're not a rapper?

Speaker 10 Yeah, definitely not.

Speaker 8 But that was the image they wanted to portray?

Speaker 8 And they thought that's what would sell?

Speaker 10 Man, I think

Speaker 10 even I was like, okay,

Speaker 10 this is me.

Speaker 8 Bro, you're trying to get on. You accepted everything.

Speaker 10 I'm looking at it like, okay, well, shit, I'll put on a, like, I was already wearing like big t-shirts.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 10 You know what I'm saying? It wasn't like it was like, I all of a sudden became a different person. Right.

Speaker 10 But when you look at what I was choosing in that time versus the real person behind the music and like all of the things that inform like who I, my identity, who I am.

Speaker 10 It definitely was like one of those ones where I was like, all right, well, I'm trying to figure it out. But I mean,

Speaker 8 how did you dress

Speaker 10 20 years ago? You know, it's like,

Speaker 8 good and terrible. You know what I'm saying? Good and terrible.

Speaker 10 That's how, that's how it was.

Speaker 8 You know, I think the thing is, like, when you get some, when you have an idea of how you want to dress, if I ever got some money. Right.
You know,

Speaker 8 I wore summer clothes. When I was a kid, I wore summer clothes year-round.
Some of my brothers, some of my uncles, some of my cousins. You know what I'm saying? So I had summer clothes.

Speaker 8 So I always said, if I got me some money,

Speaker 8 I would get me something nice.

Speaker 8 And so

Speaker 8 when I started making money, I dressed, you know,

Speaker 8 I went through the fab where I had all the throwback jerseys,

Speaker 8 the Dave Winfield, the

Speaker 8 creams, all that stuff. And then you go through the big oversized jeans,

Speaker 8 the red monkey.

Speaker 10 That was the era.

Speaker 8 Yeah. And so you go through that phase and then you realize, like, bro, leave that for them, young kids, man.
You, you, in your late 30s, you can't be dressing like these kids, right?

Speaker 8 And so, now you know, you just dress how I'm comfortable. And I'm like, man, you dress like a yoga teacher, bro.
I'm 57.

Speaker 10 What am I supposed to dress like? I'm relaxed.

Speaker 8 You know what I mean? I'll just try to figure out you. I earned this.
Yeah, you want me to dress like what? You want me to dress like Kendrick?

Speaker 8 You want me to dress like, you know, who am I supposed to dress like? Right. I'm going to dress like a 57-year-old.
Right, right. And so that's that's the thing.

Speaker 8 It's just like, okay, just accept who you are and

Speaker 8 dress what makes you feel comfortable.

Speaker 10 I think the key was really figuring out like my, I was figuring out my voice, even as a writer, even as an artist at the time.

Speaker 10 And I was working with a lot of people who, again, I was telling you, I was like, coming from being a writer, it was a lot of people who are like, you should do it like this, do it like this.

Speaker 10 And just trying to find my identity and find my way. So, yeah, when I started out, you guys, I mean, anyone watching, you can go back, look at the get your hands up video.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 10 I've got the fitted on. I've got

Speaker 10 big, big big shirt on big um big pants on but you know everyone every artist has their journey that's that's where i was at at the time um

Speaker 10 the journey is everything right the whole journey is everything

Speaker 10 it's about it really is about like honing and and refining right have you ever been starstruck

Speaker 10 yeah first time i met um jay for sure

Speaker 10 i was like man this is like reasonable doubt this is

Speaker 10 like whoa okay blueprint i'm i'm and i'm a i'm a i'm a student of hip hop i come from hip hop like really so i think the one of the biggest artists i met at the time you know one of the first was meeting jay and i was like uh and it wasn't it wasn't um

Speaker 10 that i was fumbling i just was like oh shit

Speaker 10 i've i'm really in this room

Speaker 10 with jay-z wow with ho

Speaker 10 i'm you know what i mean and it's it was it was a oh i'm the work is here it's put me here so it was it was cool also yay was there you know it was it was a lot it was a lot

Speaker 8 how hard was it

Speaker 8 i guess the music industry looked at you said here's a guy he's half meskin he sounds black he looks filipino right so so so what so what we do it here

Speaker 10 that's the that's that's been the hurdle i've been i've been i've been you know trying trying to clear this whole time.

Speaker 10 Look, man,

Speaker 10 I would say I'm like, I'm the cutting edge, man. What can I say? Shout out to my parents.
They were forward-thinking. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 Big shout out to my parents. They were way ahead of their time.

Speaker 8 Your mom is black. Your dad is Mexican.
Yeah. Yeah.
But you got coming up

Speaker 8 being biracial.

Speaker 8 You're not black enough. You're not Hispanic enough.
So you kind kind of in purgatory. It's like, like, where do you, I mean, how did you, how did that, like, as a child?

Speaker 8 Because, you know, a lot of biracial kids, especially if you're black or white, you're not black enough. You're not, you're not white enough.
Well,

Speaker 10 I've gone through a lot of my life trying to

Speaker 10 trying

Speaker 10 to figure out how to make

Speaker 10 make

Speaker 10 to get myself to a place where I felt like I was enough. Enough is the right word because that is the feeling.
It's like, well, I'm, I wrote a whole song about this called What's Normal Anyway

Speaker 10 on Wild Heart, an album I put out called Wild Heart. And

Speaker 10 it very much starts too proper for the black kids, too black for the Mexicans, too square to be a hood. What's Normal Anyway? You know, and it's

Speaker 10 that was the that's how it felt growing up. I think now I don't, I'm really proud to be both.

Speaker 10 I'm so proud to be like, man, I get to, I'm repping for both.

Speaker 10 I don't feel like I have to,

Speaker 10 I don't have to be any more or less,

Speaker 10 you know, than anything.

Speaker 10 I think there's a tremendous amount of work in that feeling. So I'm, I'm grateful for that.
And, and man, shout out to everybody out there, you know, multicultural.

Speaker 10 It's definitely

Speaker 10 a challenge because the way that

Speaker 10 the world is feels like you're supposed to choose.

Speaker 10 And sometimes it's insinuated that you have to be a certain way.

Speaker 10 But

Speaker 10 what I found in these last eight years was a tremendous amount of acceptance,

Speaker 10 first and foremost, like

Speaker 10 of myself,

Speaker 10 which allowed me to see that I was already accepted as both from both. You know what I mean? It was already there, but I had to claim it for myself.

Speaker 10 Which is,

Speaker 10 which is an important learning.

Speaker 8 So, yeah. Bad bunny performing at the Super Bowl.
Absolutely. Oh, thank God.

Speaker 8 Bro, you know, a lot of people ain't happy about that.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 10 And watch the money flow to where he's performing.

Speaker 10 The real thing is, like, we're seeing how.

Speaker 10 It's really all about money. When you were asking about money, I wanted to talk about this.
But my view of money is that is

Speaker 10 that's the motive for everything.

Speaker 8 and

Speaker 10 understanding that it can't be the daily

Speaker 10 the goal like that can't be our motivation for money but understanding its

Speaker 10 its significance in the paradigm and how that that affects everything so it trickles down when we hit money when we touch the money and and when we when we stop viewing things and then it starts that's why when you see jimmy kimmel and they cancel him and they bring him back because the viewership goes down crazy That hit the money.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 You feel what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 So,

Speaker 10 you know,

Speaker 10 the Super Bowl having Bad Bunny, they're probably going to make the most money they ever made.

Speaker 10 I almost would go on whatever betting side and be like, I bet you they make the most money they've ever made to date

Speaker 10 because of his performance.

Speaker 10 But ultimately, the whole thing is, you know, it really comes down to the money. And when they see that, bet you they bring another Latino on.

Speaker 8 on your on your new album chaos you do a couple of songs in spanish

Speaker 8 um

Speaker 8 why'd you do it this step why you do

Speaker 10 that's like that that's the

Speaker 10 accepting and feeling accepted and

Speaker 10 discovering a new like

Speaker 10 um

Speaker 10 It's discovering a new sense of identity, a more

Speaker 10 proud sense of identity that feels like I can be proud to be this, you know, and that I don't have to prove anything

Speaker 10 I am, you know, that felt

Speaker 10 natural.

Speaker 10 And I think also that has to do with

Speaker 10 becoming a father really

Speaker 10 does

Speaker 10 give you a different appreciation for where you how you were raised and your parents and your upbringing and looking at well it has for me it's made me look at my my experience growing up with so much gratitude.

Speaker 10 And in that is

Speaker 10 my gratitude for the culture I was given on both sides.

Speaker 10 And that made me feel even more empowered and more like, no, this is very natural for me.

Speaker 10 And what it did was writing in Spanish unlocked saying some things that I didn't know that I needed to say.

Speaker 10 Some things that paid homage to like my family that I needed to say.

Speaker 8 You mentioned, touched on it, your father now. He's got a new baby.

Speaker 8 And you posted it on social media. Blurred out the face, but

Speaker 8 you didn't.

Speaker 8 Why? I mean,

Speaker 8 what made you decide? Because a lot of times when people...

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Speaker 8 They don't post their kids or they'll blur out the face, but you like, hey, it's like,

Speaker 8 hey, there's my offspring.

Speaker 10 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 The

Speaker 10 so in the in the album, not just in the album, in my life,

Speaker 10 it was having my son that really triggered a lot of the

Speaker 10 work that I needed to do

Speaker 10 and

Speaker 10 the

Speaker 10 realizations that I kind of had

Speaker 10 it really triggered a lot of things that

Speaker 10 make this album whole and it wasn't until writing Angel Song

Speaker 10 and seeing him for the first time and forgetting the madness that's playing out in front of us that I felt a different kind of hope and faith that I haven't felt in a long, long time

Speaker 10 and so that really just gave me a whole other perspective of life. And it made me be able to finish some songs.

Speaker 10 It was so significant. Then also I know that I've lived out a lot of my

Speaker 10 relationship in the public.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 this was so significant that I felt if I didn't

Speaker 10 express the immense like how proud I was to be a father, how impactful it's been on my life, and also how impactful it's been on my creativity.

Speaker 10 I would have never, I couldn't put out an album if it, honestly, I couldn't have put this album out if I didn't have my son. Wow.
I wasn't going to do another album.

Speaker 10 I don't think I would have had the

Speaker 10 at the way that I was moving

Speaker 10 or avoiding the work that needed to be done,

Speaker 10 I would not have had the fortitude to put another album out.

Speaker 10 And that's because, you know, the moment you do something in the public, you become public scrutiny. Everything you do becomes public scrutiny.
And I'm tremendously sensitive about my work.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 the last time I did this, I just was like, man, you know what?

Speaker 10 I could see my influence and not just mine, but the influence of me and my peers in the work now.

Speaker 10 And at the time,

Speaker 10 They said it was I was a weirdo. They said this and that.
And I had all these feelings and all these emotions.

Speaker 10 And I said, you know what?

Speaker 10 I've been lucky enough to do this and I'm okay. I can provide for my family.
And I'm like I said, about my mom's crib. I can look out for my pop.
I'm doing, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 I can provide for myself, myself, all of these things. If anybody comes to me, I can do it.

Speaker 10 Man, I did it.

Speaker 10 Do I really want to deal with everybody

Speaker 10 about this and that with no context? With also the insensitivity of like, I'm a human being just like you.

Speaker 10 I've actually, at every point, I've given myself to this and I put it in front of you just because I'm like, man,

Speaker 10 I want to live it out out loud. And

Speaker 10 that takes a lot of energy. Anybody that you've met here knows that.
You know that. You know that.

Speaker 10 So I didn't know that I want to do this again. And it was him that actually gave me the fortitude.

Speaker 10 It was having him that gave me the, it was the domino that made me look at myself, that made me

Speaker 10 find that that the the the pride and the and the gratitude that I needed to push me into prioritizing this is what's the most important moving forward to finding that I want to give my time and attention to things that are impactful to other people so when I am away I can justify it and go, daddy, Baby was away, but you know, we got to do this for these people.

Speaker 10 And look what we're doing. And look at the time that we spent.
You know, I'm so sorry I was away, but this is how it I can justify that.

Speaker 8 Right.

Speaker 10 You feel me? Yeah. It was the domino, and I found so much learning and empowerment through it that I couldn't not keep it a secret.

Speaker 8 Wow.

Speaker 10 There was no way. It was such a,

Speaker 10 it's such a significant part of my growth. So yeah, that was.

Speaker 8 Aside of money,

Speaker 8 how different

Speaker 8 are you raising your son to what your dad did for you?

Speaker 8 Money aside, do you see similarities in things that your dad said to you that you now say to your son? Obviously, he's very, very young.

Speaker 8 But how different or how similar are you going to raise your son to the way you were raised?

Speaker 10 I would say similar. I would say my dad was like, and is.
My dad is like,

Speaker 10 my dad is like my

Speaker 10 he didn't have the most support

Speaker 10 from his father not that i i don't think my that my grandfather didn't want to support him i think there was a lot of they're very similar so they butt heads but man i see you get emotional when you talk about this man

Speaker 10 my dad's the shit

Speaker 10 he's your hero isn't he he's the man mr p is the man you know he's he's

Speaker 10 he really believed and he always told me i could could do it.

Speaker 8 He gave me a lot of things, but I think the thing, the most thing that he gave you was confidence in you. That's right.

Speaker 8 Of all the things that he's given you,

Speaker 8 life and he was your father. He's been in your life.
But he convinced you

Speaker 10 that you could do this.

Speaker 8 It's valid.

Speaker 10 It's super valid. He never took away.
I think we're born with the convincing that we need.

Speaker 10 That we deserve and that we are. Everyone, each and every one of us, you know.
but my father was um he was aware enough in his youth he was only 23 22 going on 23

Speaker 10 he was aware enough to not rob me of that but to mean but to

Speaker 10 reassure me that i could

Speaker 10 and i mean that makes me one of the luckiest people in the world you know

Speaker 8 did you always want kids

Speaker 10 yeah i always thought i because my dad was so dope and look my mom is amazing don't get me wrong, but I think very often we we

Speaker 10 We forget that that that dad is you know when we have I was lucky, you know, so I just I because everybody's like hi mom happy Mother's Day.

Speaker 8 We do all this stuff. We do all this stuff for the moms and we should I don't want to say but

Speaker 8 sometimes the day

Speaker 10 shit. My mom is the shit.
I like my mom is especially now in my life. I'm like it's a whole different kind of

Speaker 10 I

Speaker 10 I love her in a way where I felt maybe I couldn't have even understood, I couldn't have understood the sacrifice of her body, of her time, and her, you know, that she put in.

Speaker 10 But yeah, my dad was the shit in terms of like this vision and me being

Speaker 10 the man that I am and becoming who I am. A lot of it is from him.

Speaker 10 You know, a lot of that, both of my parents, but my dad believed heavy right and said verbally you can do whatever you what do you want to do like he was like what do you want to do puppy do you want to go to the you want to be an astronaut you want to you want to be a fireman you want to be a teach what do you want to be you can do it whatever if i said today if i said anything he would be like you can do that wow you can do it right

Speaker 10 and he'll be real about it yeah you know so I have a tremendous,

Speaker 10 there's a special thing about my father. He's just,

Speaker 8 he's the shit, man. You're going gonna get married again? Your ex, you and your ex, you dated 10, you tated 10 years before you got married.
You was married for eight, nine years.

Speaker 8 You see marriage in your future again?

Speaker 10 The real short answer is no, probably, probably not. I'll probably never get married again.

Speaker 10 Um,

Speaker 10 I think

Speaker 10 I'm, I'm open to it

Speaker 10 if I feel that the real

Speaker 10 partnership

Speaker 10 supports it. And that's really the thing.
But right now, I'm very happy to love someone and I'm very happy to be loved, you know, and

Speaker 10 to really be able to lock in, especially on behalf of our son.

Speaker 10 So,

Speaker 10 where even though I may not believe in the construct of marriage because of what it actually has become as a marketing thing,

Speaker 10 I believe in the in the partnership part, right? You know what I'm saying? So, I may not call it marriage,

Speaker 10 but I do believe in locking in in with somebody and having partnerships, right? Whatever that means for anyone out there, you know what I'm saying? However, that looks right.

Speaker 8 Yeah, you're gonna bless us with a new another song from the track

Speaker 8 on the album Chaos. It's called New Martyrs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We gotta do it.
Let's do it.

Speaker 8 I got a chip on my show,

Speaker 8 I got the blick on my waist I check the time on my phone I put this mask on my face If you tell me that you're with it, babe

Speaker 8 Are you with it, babe?

Speaker 8 Tell me that you're with it, babe

Speaker 8 Cause I'm with it, babe

Speaker 8 I got my pride on my sleeve I got my seat on my mind

Speaker 8 If this shit don't go, it's plain Swear I won't leave you behind. If you tell me that you're with it, babe,

Speaker 8 oh, why you with it, baby?

Speaker 8 Tell me that you're with it, babe.

Speaker 8 Cause I'm with it, babe.

Speaker 8 And she said, I'll ride for you.

Speaker 8 I'll ride for you.

Speaker 8 Oh,

Speaker 8 I'll ride for you

Speaker 8 Tell me that you're with it, baby

Speaker 8 Cause I'm with it, honey

Speaker 8 Yeah,

Speaker 8 yeah,

Speaker 8 yeah

Speaker 8 Here we go, baby

Speaker 8 Ready

Speaker 8 I put two shots in and

Speaker 8 tell everybody to drop They hit that silent alarm Just keep your eyes on that clock.

Speaker 10 I'll watch them while you get it, babe.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I get it, babe.

Speaker 8 No matter what they call us,

Speaker 8 lawless or new martyrs.

Speaker 8 They say God never gives

Speaker 8 any more than we

Speaker 8 can

Speaker 8 babe.

Speaker 8 much can I lose without

Speaker 8 changing who I am?

Speaker 8 Yeah,

Speaker 8 yeah, give me what's mine.

Speaker 8 Are we gonna take it, take it? Yeah,

Speaker 8 yeah, give me what's mine.

Speaker 8 And if I hear sirens outside, and I can see the lights flash,

Speaker 8 let me kiss you goodbye.

Speaker 8 You know, I'm ready to blast.

Speaker 8 And she said, I'll ride for you.

Speaker 8 I'll ride for you.

Speaker 8 Oh,

Speaker 8 I

Speaker 8 ride for you.

Speaker 8 Tell me that you're with it, baby.

Speaker 8 I'm with it and

Speaker 8 love

Speaker 8 can't be silent when

Speaker 8 love can't be silent.

Speaker 8 The system

Speaker 8 Wow,

Speaker 8 yeah,

Speaker 8 yeah, banger, new martyrs. Yeah, how did that song come about?

Speaker 10 That song is just about

Speaker 10 being angry. It's about being angry with all of of the

Speaker 8 all of the

Speaker 10 injustice that we're seeing, especially like on a human level. And like how

Speaker 10 we're also seeing extreme action being taken that's relatable, that feels,

Speaker 10 that could be felt as like justified.

Speaker 10 I think we're going to see more and more of that as we go on because we're just watching the systems by which we're meant to express our wants,

Speaker 10 our demands,

Speaker 10 what we deserve out of this country. We're going to see, as we're seeing that fail, we're going to see more and more people taking extreme action.
I mean,

Speaker 10 it's wild to watch people be killed on tele, you know, in the news, you know, people who are making decisions that affect people on an everyday basis.

Speaker 10 making decisions that affect their pockets at the expense of

Speaker 10 human beings, you know? So

Speaker 10 I think this song comes from just that anger of watching that happen in front of us. Yeah.

Speaker 8 How difficult is it to see a lot of people? Some people's been here 10, 15, 20 years, 30 years, hardworking people that have paid taxes and families being ripped apart.

Speaker 10 Man.

Speaker 10 There are people being pulled out of their homes. We're talking about citizens being pulled out of their homes.
This is like, this is like Estapo type shit that we're seeing. And the question is:

Speaker 10 what does it look like, not today and tomorrow, but what does it look like in a year from now? By the way,

Speaker 10 how does it look 10 years from now? And what does that mean for us? You know, that's the question.

Speaker 10 When you look at

Speaker 10 the parallels in terms of Nazi Germany and the

Speaker 10 just the signs that were kind of like

Speaker 10 pointing towards

Speaker 10 where the energy was going.

Speaker 10 There's a lot of parallels. It's a lot of parallels.
The institution of kind of a private force

Speaker 10 kind of

Speaker 10 enforcing that

Speaker 10 nationalistic sort of

Speaker 10 narrative. that

Speaker 10 immigrants shouldn't be there, you know, and to the point where they were, it was, it's, it's, it's very similar. It's very similar.
So, you know, it's a scary time. It's a trip.

Speaker 8 As a society, are we becoming more desensitized? It used to be when we saw something on television, I can't believe that. We were shocked.
It was shocked the very conscience of our soul.

Speaker 8 Now we see it and we're just like, oh, okay.

Speaker 10 Man, everybody got a million things going on. So it's easy.
And then the scroll is so, it's just like, you know, this is every day.

Speaker 10 It's not impacting me so i just keep it moving that's how i and to a degree you can't really this is systematic though we have to like pay attention to the fact that it's like been systematic it wasn't always like this exactly it's just every you know just a new update new

Speaker 10 new thing they're rolling out a new initiative it's a new thing it's just inch by inch then you figure out then you realize how far away you were from the goal you know so um

Speaker 10 i do think it's it's with intention and I, um,

Speaker 10 and it's with a long view. You know, I think this is.

Speaker 8 Yeah, this is not a short-term, no, no.

Speaker 10 Yeah, this is not a short-term play. So, um,

Speaker 10 look, I'm not, I don't pretend to be like I'm, I know all the history and all that, but I, I've, I've

Speaker 10 done a little bit of research and, and I know how I feel.

Speaker 10 And that's where the song really actually comes

Speaker 10 from. It comes from, man, you know, it's really feeling like something's off.

Speaker 10 And I and I would, I would wager most people feel like something's not right. You know, something's not right.

Speaker 10 So, you know, the song is really meant to just reflect the angst I think that we're all feeling

Speaker 10 that we deserve better.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 I'm really happy that, you know, we're able to perform it today. So, yeah.

Speaker 8 Mikael, you're part Hispanic.

Speaker 8 When you see Hispanics for Trump and you see what's happening in your community, like you said, some law-abiding citizens, some people have paid taxes for 20, 30 years, and some,

Speaker 8 this is the only home they know. They don't know Mexico or wherever they came from.

Speaker 8 They know this.

Speaker 8 And they're being pulled apart. When you see Hispanic for Trump and you see what's happening in your community, do you feel a certain type of way?

Speaker 10 I'm not here to judge anybody. You know, I think everyone is allowed their own perspective.
That's the whole beauty of what was supposed to be

Speaker 10 a democratic system in America, right? Listen, you're free to believe and, you know, believe as you, as you will and express, you know, with the due process your opinion, right?

Speaker 10 I do think that there's

Speaker 10 so much information that it's hard to see the truth. And even the truth, you have to

Speaker 10 do a lot. You have to search for where the truth is coming from.
I think also systematically, how we get information is being controlled, what information we get, and

Speaker 10 and seeing seeing the information in its pure state uncut unstepped on unused you feel me

Speaker 10 it's so it's it's a it's a task and we're already so tired so i understand that people can be

Speaker 10 it's easy to

Speaker 10 uh maneuver people and and skew skew the truth in a way that maybe appeals to you know certain people um

Speaker 10 i don't judge judge anybody for how they feel. Look, I'm going to tell you, I have Democratic beliefs and I have, you know what I mean, Republican beliefs.

Speaker 10 That's, that's, and I think the bipartisan system overall is really at the core of the, look, we,

Speaker 10 a lot of that is, is, it's rooted in a lot of the same spirit, executed in a different manner, you know, and so.

Speaker 8 But we used to be able to talk. Now we can't, now we can't even talk.
Oh, you over there? We'll stay over there. I'm over here.
I'm going to stay over here. That's it.

Speaker 8 And I'll just speak to you over over the cup you you got your it used to be okay we agree to disagree now we can't disagree yeah

Speaker 10 yeah we disagree i hate you it's because it's become too sensitive everything i think is everyone is very sensitive or overall there's a sensitivity that actually works against getting to a solution um

Speaker 10 and and

Speaker 10 the greater ones always say that they're willing to come to the table, that they want to have conversation in order to find a solution.

Speaker 10 And I think anyone who takes a strong stance in terms of our representatives, so as to

Speaker 10 sort of like rule out having real conversation, constructive criticism and conversation around issues is a red flag.

Speaker 8 I'm going to get you out of here on this.

Speaker 8 Your father was black.

Speaker 10 My father's Mexican. Mexican.

Speaker 8 Your mother's black.

Speaker 8 So you're

Speaker 8 biracial, and then his mom, your son's mom, is

Speaker 8 Asian. Chinese, yeah.
So,

Speaker 8 are you gonna sit down and explain to him

Speaker 8 you're part Asian, you're part Hispanic, you have the best of both worlds, you don't have to choose a side, you have the best food from all palace

Speaker 10 ladas, and you got all

Speaker 10 I will do my best to

Speaker 10 instill in him

Speaker 8 the

Speaker 10 fact that he is more than enough and he's human.

Speaker 10 And from what I've learned through art is that this whole experience is about humanity.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 all of the things that people think are different about you

Speaker 10 are a reflection of their interfacing with this world and with this thing.

Speaker 10 But really what I hope to instill in him is that he will have to find his wholeness and

Speaker 10 in this whole thing or maintain it. And I, more than anything, want to bolster that.

Speaker 10 I want to protect that he always feels whole and never feels any question.

Speaker 10 But no one can make anyone feel

Speaker 10 more or less. that they don't decide to subscribe to.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 So what I hope to do is just instill in him that, man,

Speaker 10 he is everything, all-powerful, all-knowing already. You know what I mean? He's got it in him.
He's a reflection of the source. You know what I mean? We are made in his image.

Speaker 10 And as long as I

Speaker 10 can help protect that by just by, you know, reminding that everything is possible, all things are possible. If you can

Speaker 10 feel it and see it and imagine it clearly and to move in that direction with like a real principle, I think we won. You know,

Speaker 8 this is Miguel. His album drops Chaos.
Make sure you go stream it and buy it. Grab your tickets for his North American tour, which kicks off February 10th of 2026.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 he's a scholar at NYU. Miguel, that's right.
Thank you. Thank you so much, man.
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Speaker 8 that's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life,

Speaker 8 all my life, been grinding all my life,

Speaker 9 sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, wanna slice, got the rolling dice, that's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life

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