Club Shay Shay - Miguel Part 1

Transcript

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Speaker 23 Of all the artists that you've worked with, who would you like to collab and do an album with?

Speaker 29 Man, I was just texting Cole.

Speaker 23 Really?

Speaker 29 Oh, bro, I'm sitting here on Shay Shay.

Speaker 23 Tell him, welcome anytime. In the interview, real quick.

Speaker 29 But Shay, say, what up?

Speaker 23 All my life, been grinding all my life.

Speaker 23 Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

Speaker 1 Want a slice.

Speaker 23 Got the roll of dice. That's why.
All my life. I've been grinding all my life.

Speaker 23 All my life, been grinding all my life.

Speaker 1 Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

Speaker 23 Want a slice, got to roll a dice, that's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life.

Speaker 23 Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Sheche. I am your host, Shannon Sharp.
I'm also the proprietor of Club Sheche.

Speaker 23 Stopping by for conversation and a drink today is a Grammy Award-winning singer, a multi-platinum selling songwriter, an R ⁇ B superstar, a career that spans over two decades.

Speaker 23 His music has transcended generations. A creator of timeless music,

Speaker 23 a premier genre-defining progressive artist, a global pioneer, a visionary, a trailblazer, a talented musician, guitarist, stage performer, producer, sought-after collaborator.

Speaker 23 He's here to perform two songs off his new album called Chaos. The first song is titled Always Time.
Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Miguel.

Speaker 23 Broken glass,

Speaker 23 piercing words.

Speaker 23 You change so fast,

Speaker 23 yet hurts.

Speaker 23 Rocky past,

Speaker 23 lessons learned. Don't say it's too late.
I thought there was always time

Speaker 23 when you love this heart.

Speaker 23 And you try this hard,

Speaker 23 but it's still not enough.

Speaker 23 Maybe this time love means letting go,

Speaker 23 let it go,

Speaker 23 let it go.

Speaker 23 Maybe this time love means letting go,

Speaker 23 letting go.

Speaker 23 Maybe this time love means

Speaker 23 let him go.

Speaker 29 private truths, public woes.

Speaker 23 All my favorite songs have highs and lows.

Speaker 23 Laugh with the world

Speaker 23 or cry alone.

Speaker 23 No, it's too late. I thought there was always

Speaker 23 time

Speaker 23 when you laugh this high

Speaker 23 and you cry this hard,

Speaker 23 but it's still not enough.

Speaker 23 Maybe this term love means let it go,

Speaker 23 Maybe this time love me.

Speaker 23 Oh, when you cry and you try,

Speaker 23 cry and you cry,

Speaker 23 fight and you fight

Speaker 23 all the opposite ways that you blow.

Speaker 23 Maybe this time

Speaker 23 of me.

Speaker 23 go

Speaker 23 Let it go

Speaker 23 Broken glass,

Speaker 23 and words

Speaker 23 It changed so fast

Speaker 23 Yeah

Speaker 23 Rocky Bath.

Speaker 23 Lessons learned. I know it's too late.
I thought there was always

Speaker 23 time.

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Speaker 23 Listening to this song, Always Time.

Speaker 23 You talk about when you love this hard and you try this hard, but it's still not enough. Maybe this love means letting go, letting go, letting go.

Speaker 23 I can tell when someone sings a song and it's coming from a place of hurt, when it's coming from a place of disappointment, because you pour all those emotions into that song. And I could feel it.

Speaker 23 When you perform, when you, how did this song come about?

Speaker 29 Yeah, this is, and thank you. That's

Speaker 29 the goal, you know, is to make music that still

Speaker 29 carries the

Speaker 29 emotion in it, right?

Speaker 31 That's why we love music. Yeah, we love music.

Speaker 23 Especially we can relate.

Speaker 29 Man, it's a trip.

Speaker 29 It's really a trip.

Speaker 29 Because I grew up always,

Speaker 29 you know, I'm a very, I'm like loyal to a fault.

Speaker 29 Kind of,

Speaker 29 that's how I know how to love. That's how I've taught, been taught how to love.

Speaker 31 You know,

Speaker 29 love covers all things. You know, it bridges all things, heals all things.
And

Speaker 29 I think

Speaker 29 for

Speaker 29 this song,

Speaker 29 it tracks all of the growth and the learning about love

Speaker 29 in the lyric and in the message because it started out as a, man Shannon, I started this song as like a, it was a positive song.

Speaker 31 Right.

Speaker 29 It was a song like,

Speaker 29 there's always time.

Speaker 29 And because of love, there's always time. And there was a hope.
You know, it was a hopeful song.

Speaker 29 There's a lot of faith in the song. And

Speaker 29 over time, I think I've learned,

Speaker 29 you know,

Speaker 29 that love sometimes actually means

Speaker 29 caring so much about and loving someone

Speaker 29 more than yourself and what you want

Speaker 29 so as

Speaker 29 to act on behalf of them to protect them. You know, and I think the song,

Speaker 29 it's crazy, the song kind of evolved like that. And I realized that maybe we were growing in, you know, I was growing in a different direction.

Speaker 29 And

Speaker 29 it's a trip. The song kind of

Speaker 29 it encapsulates like a whole relationship, you know.

Speaker 23 Normally when we love something so much, we want to hold it closer. We want to pull it to us.
We don't want to let it go. But you say this time, maybe it means letting go, letting go, letting go.

Speaker 23 Maybe I love you so much.

Speaker 23 Maybe the best way that I can show you that I really love you is to let you go.

Speaker 23 That's it.

Speaker 29 That's a it's a hard

Speaker 23 lesson. Because you see, you understand how that's oxymoronic.

Speaker 23 Is that normally

Speaker 23 we love something, we want to hold it. We don't want to let it go.

Speaker 29 It's counterintuitive.

Speaker 23 Yes. For sure.

Speaker 29 For sure. Especially when you're raised to,

Speaker 29 you know, again, like I said, like, you know, love really covers all things, you know.

Speaker 31 And so,

Speaker 29 yeah, it's definitely one of those ones as a human being that

Speaker 29 I learned

Speaker 29 over the course of

Speaker 29 a long span of my life, you know, a period of my life where there's a lot of growing and learning in real time. So, yeah, the song reflects that.

Speaker 23 How hard is it to end a relationship? when you do love someone. I always think, Miguel, that a relationship, ending a relationship is easy if you the one that wants to end it.
Valid.

Speaker 23 It gets difficult when you don't want to,

Speaker 23 yeah, you on the other end.

Speaker 32 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 23 But how hard is it? Because, you know, like you said, it's that tug that I love you, but I got to let you go because.

Speaker 31 I mean, we've

Speaker 29 all had to let go of things that we didn't want to. That's just a part of life, you know, I think when it really gets hard is like when it's become

Speaker 29 a part of

Speaker 29 when it becomes a part of your everyday

Speaker 29 digging, you know, it's a reality. It's like

Speaker 29 it makes you really challenging.

Speaker 31 And

Speaker 29 it is like one of those ones that I think proves, proves real,

Speaker 29 real

Speaker 29 consideration

Speaker 31 and

Speaker 31 care

Speaker 29 to be able to go, you know what, actually

Speaker 29 nope can't I can't

Speaker 29 I can't

Speaker 29 fulfill what is deserved here you know

Speaker 31 and

Speaker 29 it's a song like this that actually helped me heal

Speaker 29 always time actually really helped me heal and and and hopefully like all the songs on this album

Speaker 31 it

Speaker 29 it really actually helps people understand that like we all have things that

Speaker 29 we're trying to clarify in life

Speaker 29 and we're all trying to do the best that we can and

Speaker 29 sometimes some things we get and it comes very naturally. I took to walking and running and riding a bike completely naturally.

Speaker 29 I've realized over time that like ironically communication is not my strong truth.

Speaker 29 You would think that as a songwriter and as a musician, you know, that my communication skills would be, I thought they were so much stronger and better than they actually are.

Speaker 29 And it took some time, this song being one of the indications and the writing of this album

Speaker 29 that I learned that there was a lot of work to be done there. And

Speaker 29 that's, I think, everybody's got their own things that they're clarifying and working on. But that's one of the ones.
So I'm really happy that it came together on this song because...

Speaker 29 I don't think I've been able to put it together like that before, like that.

Speaker 23 What if you're communicating in a language she doesn't understand?

Speaker 29 Man, isn't that the crazy thing? I just learned about

Speaker 29 not just because we've heard like love styles, right? That people have different ways of like communicating.

Speaker 23 Yes.

Speaker 29 I just learned about apology styles. Like, I didn't know that there were different styles, and that we receive apology in different ways.
Yes. Right.

Speaker 29 So, like, me personally, what I've learned is that I'm a by action, planned action. So, like,

Speaker 29 when I apologize,

Speaker 29 it's best for me, and it's the most meaning for me to say, Well, you know,

Speaker 29 what I'm understanding you say is I did A, B, and C, and that made you feel A, B, and C.

Speaker 29 And so, next time when this happens, what I'm gonna do is do this, this, and this.

Speaker 29 How does that feel? You know, right. That to me is how

Speaker 29 I've learned now is the most

Speaker 29 that's

Speaker 29 the most impactful way of me saying i'm actually really

Speaker 29 i'm really apart i'm really apart i'm really sorry you know action and vice versa i see it that way so um

Speaker 29 so i've been learning so much man we're just learning and and um i do think that like look it wasn't like it was given to us you know everything we've we got a lot of great teaching and then we got some things that need to be built on every you know so these are definitely ones that that have made a difference for me you and your ex your wife you guys dated from the time you were 19 until the time you were 36.

Speaker 29 Man, we really jumped into this one. Yeah.
I was asking for it.

Speaker 29 I was asking for it with the song.

Speaker 23 Yes, because

Speaker 23 is that what you mean when you've invested so much? You're talking about 19, you're a teenager. And here you are in your late 30s

Speaker 23 and having to walk away after you've invested so much time. And this is what I tell people, Miguel, is that...
The more you invest in something, the more it hurts when it doesn't work out. Man.

Speaker 23 It hurt me to lose because I know know how much time I invested in lifting those weights and meetings and the way I ate and the discipline I had of not going out and denying myself certain things.

Speaker 23 So you damn right it hurt when it didn't work out.

Speaker 23 When you spend this amount of time with someone, you think, okay, this is it.

Speaker 23 I got someone that didn't, when I didn't have anything. Right.
And she sees this maturation as we go through this thing called life.

Speaker 23 And damn. Yeah.

Speaker 23 Baby, what?

Speaker 23 And I'm sure you're asking yourself, what, what?

Speaker 23 Where did I go wrong? Where did we go wrong? What happened?

Speaker 29 No, I know.

Speaker 23 I know where I went wrong, though.

Speaker 29 Oh, you know, I wasn't whole, though. I was, and I'm not saying that I'm like, oh, my God,

Speaker 23 I got all the answers now.

Speaker 29 But

Speaker 29 even being able to say and admit that I'm not whole and to come to, it completely changes the way that I approach things. You know, it's more as a student.
It's more

Speaker 29 from a place of, well, what I do know is this is where I'm leading from, and this is what

Speaker 29 is guiding and

Speaker 29 directing my decision making. And

Speaker 29 it's such a domino effect when you can't start like that. You know, at 19,

Speaker 29 and especially at 19 and coming into

Speaker 29 into

Speaker 29 really wanting to focus on your career and all of that,

Speaker 29 I wasn't in the headspace to be with anyone, and I didn't know how to, I didn't communicate,

Speaker 29 you know?

Speaker 29 So there's a lot of things that I did wrong. I did, I set up with my ex, I set it up, I didn't set it up properly.
You know, I didn't, I didn't build,

Speaker 29 just build the, the, the, the trust as a, just a friendship to protect that later on, the, the, the becoming a relationship

Speaker 29 the way that I could have.

Speaker 29 You know, i think if i was to do it again i would have i would have really said hey i'm actually not ready right now you know but it also is a trip because you know when you meet someone you're like man i really there's something special here

Speaker 29 so i can see where my where where everything happened i was young and i was excited that i had met someone that i felt was significant, you know, and that we had a real connection and we did.

Speaker 23 Yes.

Speaker 29 And

Speaker 29 I think that's what makes it the hardest now. Because, you know, in there, I could have protected it by saying, you know, maybe this is too early.
This is too soon. And I didn't.
But

Speaker 29 it's all clear in hindsight. You know what I mean?

Speaker 23 It's clear.

Speaker 23 It is.

Speaker 23 So when you go to her and you say, babe,

Speaker 33 I don't think this is working anymore.

Speaker 33 I'm sure she probably said, well, Well, what do you mean?

Speaker 23 You're like, babe, I just

Speaker 23 because you're a different person at 19 than you are at 36.

Speaker 23 You're a different person at 25 than you are at 35.

Speaker 29 You know, the real thing is, and I don't want to spend too much time on it because

Speaker 29 I know that

Speaker 29 I know that we both have a tremendous amount of love for each other.

Speaker 29 And

Speaker 29 we're working very hard to

Speaker 29 not make it about

Speaker 29 what was,

Speaker 29 you know, what it was, you know? And,

Speaker 29 you know, I think a lot of people

Speaker 29 liked the vision of it, you know, and liked the aesthetic and like the end.

Speaker 23 The happily ever after.

Speaker 29 Yeah,

Speaker 29 I think we all, you know, want to,

Speaker 29 there's a part of that that I think lives in a lot of, in a lot of the memory of it and the the symbolism right

Speaker 29 it is like it's a song like this that I think that allowed me to kind of

Speaker 29 Look at myself and go, you know

Speaker 29 I made a lot of mistakes man.

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Speaker 29 I'm a much more aware person now,

Speaker 29 and I hate that I had to learn it the hard way, but we must continue, you know, and this is the, this is the thing in life. So

Speaker 29 I think this song represents always time represents.

Speaker 29 And that's why when I sing it, I'm happy to be in the moment, in the presence of it, as honor to the time and effort and the sacrifice that she put in it and myself, I put in it too

Speaker 29 through all of the

Speaker 29 just the honor of the whole thing. Because it was through time and effort that we both really had to come to letting things go.
And

Speaker 29 she's an amazing person. She's an amazing person.
It

Speaker 29 deserves the best

Speaker 29 as we all do.

Speaker 23 To move on from this.

Speaker 23 When things don't go as planned,

Speaker 23 how does one move on? Because I'm sure you had forever after

Speaker 23 in your plan. That's why you use Wither for that length of time.
And careers blossom, growing, and everything is happening.

Speaker 23 And now, how should people, how do people, because I think it's different for everybody that you transition, like, damn,

Speaker 23 I can't just lie here and wallow it, like, oh, this didn't work out. I got to move on.
I got to live. Tomorrow is coming.

Speaker 29 Everybody got to. Everyone has to move, move forward.

Speaker 29 I mean, I live through my music you know i'm not i think that's another thing i think is

Speaker 29 music decorates time the way that fine art decorates space you know

Speaker 29 and

Speaker 29 every moment of the music that i've given is a reflection of that

Speaker 23 time um

Speaker 29 and i like to keep it that way so

Speaker 29 I'm um what did Lauren Hill say if it's not growing it's dead

Speaker 29 I'm a I'm I'm um

Speaker 29 I'm just trying to do it better. You know what I mean? Every day, I'm trying to do it better.
So the music is a reflection of that. And the song is really my

Speaker 29 real letting go. You know, it's my real,

Speaker 29 hey, like, I've really come to a place where I understand my mistakes. And

Speaker 29 I have remorse for these mistakes. And I've learned the lesson.
I've taken the time to absorb the lesson.

Speaker 29 As we know, like, like, you just, if you make a mistake and you don't really learn the lesson, you're just gonna keep,

Speaker 29 it's gonna keep coming back and you're gonna keep hitting the same wall and

Speaker 29 it's gonna cause the same pain, right? And so

Speaker 29 the song means to kind of like be the, you know what? I got it, okay?

Speaker 29 It's time to let go and it's time to.

Speaker 29 It's time to grow. Learn from it.
Take it.

Speaker 23 I heard a guy say many, many years ago, lessons not learned in blood are destined to repeat themselves.

Speaker 29 But this is our life's work, though, right?

Speaker 29 Everyone has a bit of

Speaker 29 their,

Speaker 29 you know, the things that we've received from our past, from our family, from our upbringing.

Speaker 23 All of that shapes us, though.

Speaker 29 Yeah, it's passed down and

Speaker 29 we take it on and we make it a part of our identity.

Speaker 29 And at some point, you got to kind of like

Speaker 29 take it off and like look at it and go like, oh, I kind of assumed all of this, you know, and then I'm like, well, is it, do I really need that? Like, is it extra? Is it just extra?

Speaker 29 Is it just dead weight? Is it, um,

Speaker 29 that's the refining process, man. That's a, that's a part of it.
And anyone who's done anything, I think people who are doers understands, right?

Speaker 29 It's like that journey is a, it's a refining process that continues and continues and continues.

Speaker 23 So the road get bumpy sometimes. Hey, it's not straight either.
Oh no, that.

Speaker 29 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's non-linear.

Speaker 23 You get a flat tire, you can get it. You need the engine run high.

Speaker 29 You are going to hit the pothole.

Speaker 29 Yeah. You're going to swerve sometimes.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 23 All right. It's all right.

Speaker 29 And we will continue. It's like that.
So,

Speaker 29 yeah, you know. Yeah.
It trips me out, though, sometimes how people get really judgmental. You know, people get really judgmental about it.
And I say, you know,

Speaker 29 if we're moving forward, moving forward and we're trying, like, trying, and we're doing actionable things

Speaker 29 to make a difference in the way that we behave and how it affects other people, especially when

Speaker 31 it's not good.

Speaker 29 Like, I think that's commendable. You know, and who are we to judge other people? That's why I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I don't look at, I don't pay attention um

Speaker 29 to to the way that that

Speaker 29 things happen right in the here and now everybody's on their own journey and got their own

Speaker 23 shit that's so you know we just try to do it better every day yeah let's get to this album

Speaker 23 um

Speaker 23 congratulations first of all congratulations on chaos it came out on your 40th birthday man let's let's still look closer man this hey

Speaker 23 with it was that by was that my plan?

Speaker 29 That you. I don't know.
Was it a plan? I don't know. Salu.

Speaker 23 You seem like a guy that's very thoughtful, that you plan things to the up team. Oh, listen.

Speaker 29 I definitely am dropping my album on my birthday for sure. But it just so happens that I'm also on your show, you know, around it.
So it's nice. Thank you.
Saloon. Salute.

Speaker 23 Cheers, man.

Speaker 29 That's nice.

Speaker 23 Y'all heard what he did.

Speaker 23 Y'all heard what he said.

Speaker 29 What is that on the back end of that?

Speaker 23 You know, you taste a little marshmallow, you know, yeah.

Speaker 23 Went to cognac myself. Okay.

Speaker 29 That's the way to get it.

Speaker 23 Uh-huh. Uni Blanc and a petite champagne.
Okay. Oak barrel.
You know, you know the concept behind cognac? For it to be called a cognac, it has to originate the first two years. in that region.
I see.

Speaker 23 And so

Speaker 23 a VSOP, this is a VSOP, okay. a very special OP,

Speaker 23 four to six years.

Speaker 23 And then officer, you go, you know, XO, and you go to eight to ten, eight to twelve.

Speaker 29 Then they become the XO. Then they become XO.

Speaker 23 Yes, the longer you let it sit. But we add no artificial colors, no artificial, no, no preservatives.
So the color takes on from the barrel. Banger.
So it's, we think we've done a great job.

Speaker 23 And for you to say, yeah, I like that. Man, that's what.
I mean, that's

Speaker 23 my son. Salute.
Cheers to that.

Speaker 23 Oh, man.

Speaker 29 That's nice.

Speaker 23 Yeah, sorry.

Speaker 29 We were talking about

Speaker 29 the VSOPS.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 23 So

Speaker 23 your 40s. So what do you hope to accomplish? What do you think you missed out, you didn't accomplish in your 20s and 30s that you say, you know what?

Speaker 23 My 40s, there are some things that I didn't do in my 20s and 30s that I got to make sure I get done in my 40s.

Speaker 29 I would say I didn't miss out on anything. I actually got really lucky early on and I focused so heavily on my career

Speaker 29 so much so that I actually

Speaker 29 didn't, I did the catching up on my personal work in the last eight years.

Speaker 29 So I sort of focused all of my time and energy. I think that's another insight that it took some time to really understand.

Speaker 29 Man, being passionate and being driven about something really really is a beautiful thing.

Speaker 29 But

Speaker 29 my learning in the past eight years, being able to do a lot of catch-up work, has been that, you know,

Speaker 29 it's so important

Speaker 29 to stay locked in with yourself so much so that

Speaker 29 you're never making excuses on behalf of your passion.

Speaker 29 And I think

Speaker 23 in real, like, just

Speaker 29 for real, for real, I did a lot of like avoiding of my own work that I needed to do to lock in with me. And in

Speaker 29 the

Speaker 29 journey of being a musician and wanting to get the music right and dialing in and like

Speaker 29 doing all the things that felt necessary in the time

Speaker 29 to get the music right came at the sacrifice. Not necessarily, but I actually actively chose whether I was conscious or subconscious.
It was subconscious. I just wasn't doing the me work, you know?

Speaker 29 And so the last eight years and what this album represents is a lot of me work. And it's why the album isn't about love and it's not about sex, even though that's a part of what's in there.

Speaker 29 It's more about how painful it is to be human, you know, and that's why the opening lyric on Rip is like, man, can I surrender you?

Speaker 29 to you all my defenses are down it hurts to be human wow and it really is it's a challenge everybody

Speaker 29 i'm sure you felt like, man, this is really tough.

Speaker 23 Yep, of course.

Speaker 29 You know, and it is.

Speaker 29 That's a part of it.

Speaker 29 In the last eight years, what I've learned is

Speaker 29 better in bites. You know what I mean? Like, do it increment, do it in increments.
And like, you can, it's more manageable.

Speaker 29 And so that's how my next 10 years will be.

Speaker 29 So to answer your question, My focus in the next 10 years is really like staying locked in with me and locked in on how I want to feel and devoting my time and attention to you know left to center black brown Latino creators like myself who deserve to be developed and their ideas papered you know what I mean basically like they

Speaker 29 great ideas it requires a lot of time energy and development and I'm building out a building out a whole

Speaker 29 built out my whole company around supporting artists like myself, black, brown, Latino, came from underserved, you know what I'm saying, communities who have ideas that could serve this world, you know, especially through their art and their IP.

Speaker 29 So that's my next 10.

Speaker 23 What about the sacrifices that it takes?

Speaker 23 You said that sometimes that you denied your music in order to, maybe it was to appease someone else or to do something else when you probably should have been focusing probably more on the music.

Speaker 23 And you said in your 40s,

Speaker 23 you're going to get back to that.

Speaker 23 Can you share what it's like to have to sacrifice to because in order to sacrifice somebody's going to have to go without that's what sacrifice means someone or something has to

Speaker 23 it has to come from somewhere somewhere it's got to come from somewhere I'm taking from this bucket I'm taking from that bucket I'm taking from this but I'm taking from these buckets to pour all into one bucket which is to make Miguel the best he can possibly right right right right that's an interesting one

Speaker 29 and I would actually ask you I'm like how do you know there's there's so much like

Speaker 29 anyone who's done the doers know yes doers know that you are at some point in time it's gonna come at the expense your

Speaker 29 your pursuit is gonna come at the expense of someone else leadership is also at the expense of the whole is can't make everyone happy.

Speaker 29 You're looking at, okay, well, what's the best overall?

Speaker 29 It's going to come at the sacrifice of somebody's immediate happiness but overall it's for the better the bigger that is correct vision right um

Speaker 29 i think i think what i love to get insight from you is like you know like what is the

Speaker 29 how have you learned to navigate that because i mean excellence we're talking about excellence in in the highest performing, most aggressive,

Speaker 29 and not just the sport. I'm talking about about the mentality the headspace yeah you know

Speaker 29 you know how do you how does one navigate that

Speaker 29 kind of pressure because then because you really got to then sacrifice and be like oh no I am the best I am the shit I am the everything yes and it kind of like you know on the field you have to believe that right then when you leave the field it's hard to turn that off

Speaker 23 It's hard to turn that off. And I've said this before, Miguel,

Speaker 23 I've ruined a lot of relationships for the simple fact that

Speaker 23 I'm good at compartmentalizing. I can't do two things.

Speaker 23 I can't love you like I love football. I can't love you like I love the pursuit of greatness.

Speaker 23 And so I sacrificed kids' events, family events, relationships. That's what killed my relationships.

Speaker 23 I'd have been married for 30 years

Speaker 23 had I poured into a relationship what I poured into football.

Speaker 23 But

Speaker 23 when I laid in my bed as a kid,

Speaker 23 being married or having that one person next to me,

Speaker 23 that wasn't in my dream. My brother always say, a dream is a gift you give to yourself.

Speaker 23 The gift that I gave to myself was to get my grandmother out of that thousand square foot single block home. Valid.

Speaker 23 The dream that I gave to myself was to make sure my family never had to eat cold oatmeal and eat the type of animals that we ate when we were growing up. That was the gift that I gave to myself.

Speaker 23 Looking back on it, could I have done something different? Yes.

Speaker 23 But I wouldn't have been this. Right.

Speaker 23 No possible way. And you talk to anybody that's been great, any athlete, any professional, and people are like, well, yeah, look at them guys now.
Yeah. Jeff Bezos has that life now.

Speaker 23 He didn't have that in his 20s and 30s.

Speaker 23 Bill Gates didn't have that in his 20s and 30s. Larry Ellison, Zuckerberg.

Speaker 23 They didn't have that. Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, LeBron, Kobe, rest his soul, Steph Curry.

Speaker 23 Yeah, you you get to a point. And for me,

Speaker 23 money wasn't the goal. Money is the tool.
Freedom is the goal.

Speaker 29 Freedom is always the, that's the one.

Speaker 23 And so

Speaker 23 I can just imagine this tunnel vision that a Beyonce,

Speaker 23 that a Michael Jackson, that a Prince, people that you like yourself, in order to be great, you've got to sacrifice something. You have to.
In the Bible, they talk about sacrifice dead.

Speaker 23 You had to sacrifice a goat. man.
You had to sacrifice something

Speaker 23 of importance.

Speaker 23 That's the only way. There's no other way around it.
Say it. And that's the so that.

Speaker 29 So,

Speaker 29 my thinking in this version

Speaker 23 is,

Speaker 29 you know, making the communication about the sacrifice really clear

Speaker 29 and

Speaker 29 really like

Speaker 23 upfront.

Speaker 29 Because

Speaker 29 in that way

Speaker 29 it also keeps it's kept me more um

Speaker 29 what is that uh uh

Speaker 29 when you are accountable it's it's kept me accountable because

Speaker 29 what it actually does is it makes me pay more attention in real time and I don't want to ever spend my you know spend another

Speaker 29 decade where I'm just so

Speaker 23 locked in locked in that I'm missing

Speaker 29 other things that are really important. And I think in doing that,

Speaker 29 what I've learned is it actually mitigates and actually helps include people, include my relationships as opposed to separating them and compartmentalizing because

Speaker 29 I'm good at compartmentalizing too.

Speaker 29 And I think anyone that

Speaker 29 is really locked in on a goal, on a purpose, it comes with the territory to be able to go, well, I know that the odds are this, and everyone's saying this, and I'm coming from here, and it's unlikely in these ways.

Speaker 29 And who knows if this is going to happen? You got to be so fucked in.

Speaker 23 I'm focused on a singular goal, a singular task, and everything that's going on. I don't, I don't even hear it.
It's almost like when you're at the game, you don't even hear the crowd.

Speaker 23 All you do is that you're running the play, and it's total silence.

Speaker 23 And then you make a play, and you get up, and it's

Speaker 23 chaos. Yeah.

Speaker 23 So when I'm locked in on what I'm locked in on, I don't hear anything else. And that's

Speaker 23 that's bad. You said something very interesting.
It's like you find someone, everybody says they can be second

Speaker 23 until they're asked to be second.

Speaker 23 It's fine. I want you to do your thing.
Do you, do you? But the minute, can we go out, babe? I got to study. I got to watch film.
I got to go take club shape shit. I got to do nightcap.

Speaker 23 No, I got to go to this thing.

Speaker 23 You ain't got no time.

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Speaker 23 I say, babe, I told you.

Speaker 23 See, everybody says that until they're asked to do that.

Speaker 29 It really is a tough. It's tough.

Speaker 23 It's tough.

Speaker 29 It's hard to understand unless you're in it.

Speaker 29 It does make you, it does does make you

Speaker 29 it does make one really appreciate the ones in our lives that can

Speaker 29 understand. Yes.
You know, I think what I've what I want my next 10, my next 10, I want to be

Speaker 29 more present.

Speaker 29 And I think it's also like what I've learned too is that I could be more present in the times that I sh that I'm supposed to be. Right.

Speaker 29 You know, it's like maximize on the time that I have when I have it.

Speaker 23 make it really count so that it's never so when you're present, you're really present, you're not thinking about, man, I really need to get back to the studio.

Speaker 29 Check that email, or oh man, I had this idea.

Speaker 29 Did I get those files? Oh man, let me reach out to so-and-so, man. They had these ideas last time.
That's just, you know, or mind going in other directions, whatever.

Speaker 29 But to lock in with the people that I get in the time that I have in the most

Speaker 29 quality way.

Speaker 23 It's hard when you've never done that in 40 years and all of a sudden ask yourself i'm still learning i'm still learning but it it's it's really helpful i think having

Speaker 29 having um taken the time to appreciate the opportunity makes it makes it more um manageable makes it more manageable also with my son too you know it's like listen i gotta i want to maximize time with it right yeah i've listened to like scorpio silza frank ocean sierra ellie may willow amarion muratas do you i mean what is it about Scorpios?

Speaker 23 I mean, what is it about you guys?

Speaker 29 We're the best.

Speaker 23 Y'all are dangerous.

Speaker 29 Look, don't get me in trouble.

Speaker 23 Scorpios are dangerous. I mean, look,

Speaker 29 we're definitely passionate, driven, you know, again, loyal to a fault,

Speaker 29 you know, effective. I think that can rub people the wrong way.

Speaker 29 For me, communication

Speaker 29 is the key, you know, and learning how better to communicate.

Speaker 29 I realized this too, that I went to music because I didn't know how to say how I was feeling. And I didn't feel like I had a place to say how I was feeling.

Speaker 29 And it became the place that I went to express myself. So it makes sense now

Speaker 29 in this time in my life when I reflect that all the times that I thought I was communicating, that I wasn't, it wasn't,

Speaker 29 it wasn't effective. I wasn't doing the thing.

Speaker 23 Well, you was communicating. It was the only language that you understood.
Exactly.

Speaker 29 Or just communicating with myself. If you're a Scorpio, you know, you might just be talking to yourself.

Speaker 23 You know, you go in those shops to get your nails and they be talking. You're like, I wonder what they saying.
Well, you thought you was communicating.

Speaker 23 She was like, I wonder what he thinks he's saying to me. Cause I don't get what he's saying.
Yeah. And vice versa.
Right.

Speaker 23 So you're going to have to learn, you know, sometimes you might have to learn a second language in order to communicate with our partner. So we both understand what.

Speaker 23 what she needs and she understands what you need.

Speaker 29 Also, we speak different languages. Like, like,

Speaker 29 you, have you ever noticed, like, your friends, like, or, you know, whomever, just, they hear things a different way.

Speaker 29 So sometimes you just got to know, like, okay, they're going to hear that like that. So let me just be cognizant.
Yes. If I say it like this, they're going to receive it like this.

Speaker 29 That's the consideration that you have when you care about somebody.

Speaker 23 I had to learn that because I'm like,

Speaker 23 I would say something and I just automatically assume they would understand what I'm talking about.

Speaker 23 and I'm like why can't you understand

Speaker 29 but what I said was well you said it like this and then what it what what you you know

Speaker 23 I've had to learn yeah to be very specific Shannon they're not in your head they don't think like you think you don't they don't feel like you feel they don't see it how you see it that was the hardest thing because I'm saying something I'm like why you why is that so I'm like why is that bothering you why why does that bother you all I said was this and this and I meant it like this, you know, but but it's learning, you know?

Speaker 23 Yeah. I'm going to.

Speaker 23 Miguel,

Speaker 23 what's your favorite song that you recorded?

Speaker 29 A song called El Pleto. Right now, right now, there's a song on this album called El Pleto, which is about

Speaker 29 the sacrifice that all of our,

Speaker 29 well, that we make. that life requires.
Again, sacrifice is what

Speaker 29 that life requires and all of the sacrifice that we are the uh the summation of okay be it our parents and their parents and their parents before them it took a lot of luck to be here and a lot of sacrifice and um that song is about how proud i am to have have gone through what i've gone through and whether it was the easy way or the hard way to have learned what i've learned and to and to have my soul intact you know i think that's the

Speaker 29 the thing i'm the most proud of is that you know I've done a lot of things that I wouldn't repeat, you know. And

Speaker 29 I've

Speaker 29 decided that

Speaker 29 actionably, I will do things like this and operate like this with a lot of consideration. And

Speaker 29 I'm proud of myself, man. And that song is about

Speaker 29 the fight that we all have. to get to that place of like, man, I'm really actually proud of myself.
I've been through A, B, and C.

Speaker 29 You know what? My soul is still standing. There's a line in there.

Speaker 29 La mis ma sangreca ro na que mi jefe, which is like the same blood as my father. Okay.

Speaker 29 La mis más sangrecaca rona que mi Jefe.

Speaker 29 Erido pero al ma en pie, which is broken but soul standing. And how many times have we all been broken? How many lives have we lived where we've gone, you know what?

Speaker 29 Let me figure it out and do it better. And done it.
You got to be proud of yourself for these times, you know? And keeping your soul intact is probably one of the hardest things.

Speaker 29 So, man, that song is one of my, I'm the most, one of the most proud, I'm the most proud about that song, especially on this album.

Speaker 23 Do you feel you've learned more from mistakes?

Speaker 29 I wrote a song on my first album called Hard Way, and it's the lyric is like, I always learn the hard way.

Speaker 29 I wish I didn't write that song because maybe I spoke in it too.

Speaker 23 Yeah, you spoke, yeah,

Speaker 23 there's power. They say there's power in the tongue, there's power in the pen.

Speaker 29 In the pen, man, it's, it's, I've learned a lot of a lot of things by mistake. Yeah.
I hope wisdom

Speaker 29 leads in my next 10.

Speaker 23 I hope I leave it wisdom.

Speaker 23 Sure thing.

Speaker 23 That's what that song.

Speaker 29 One of those ones, man.

Speaker 23 That's really good.

Speaker 29 I drink Mascala and I'm like, man, that's really good.

Speaker 23 Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate it.
Y'all heard that right there?

Speaker 23 Miguel, the man ain't gonna lie to you and say he turned his life over. So he ain't gonna

Speaker 23 switch my whole whole stance.

Speaker 29 You see me with the VSOP.

Speaker 23 So hold on. Sure thing.

Speaker 23 If you be the cash, I'll be the rubber man. Right.
You be the match, I'll be the fuse.

Speaker 23 Bro. Yeah.

Speaker 23 She was like, he had you like that? Yeah.

Speaker 23 No. Y'all were like that.

Speaker 29 My pen was like that.

Speaker 29 How could I? Look, I'm going to be honest with you, man.

Speaker 29 I'm a dreamer. I think every

Speaker 29 artist knows how to

Speaker 29 dream their emotion, you know, and they're pulling from emotion to make the dream

Speaker 29 real in their practice. And

Speaker 29 I was 19. There was no way I could experience.
I could I never knew love like that.

Speaker 29 But I knew that I wanted love like that.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 29 And I knew that,

Speaker 29 you know, I was in a relation you know with with

Speaker 29 with my significant other we were

Speaker 23 we were

Speaker 29 we i feel like even early on we felt really like oh no like this is special

Speaker 29 so i always feel that way you know i always i always have that regard it's in that song but i didn't necessarily know what that meant when i was writing it I was, I was, that was my pen.

Speaker 23 Yeah, because I'm like, damn.

Speaker 23 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 23 I actually still carry my money in a rubber band.

Speaker 23 I actually do. You know,

Speaker 23 a lot of times, you know,

Speaker 23 you hear artists say, you know, they get this from an inspiration,

Speaker 23 you know, a relationship or this, something in their childhood. But you said at the time you just wrote that, you were, I mean, obviously you had just started.

Speaker 23 with your significant other that you was with for an extended period of time. But I'm like, y'all, you felt that like, that's what you wanted.

Speaker 23 You wanted someone that, like, I'm the fuse, you're the match. I'm the rubber, you're the cash, I'm the rubber band.
We're locked in, we're connected just like that.

Speaker 23 You wanted that at that young of an age.

Speaker 29 I mean, again, like, and this is not to take away, like, I'm not, I don't want to downplay or like minimize anything. That's not at all what I'm doing.

Speaker 29 I'm being real when I say, man, I was, I was 19 years old. Right.
I'm only now really learning new levels of love. Okay.

Speaker 29 And I said this more recently in another conversation, another interview. I'm like, man, I'm learning how to love myself.
Like

Speaker 29 the depth of what I understand love can be is evolving. So what I was writing was aspirational.
I was aspiring to have love like that.

Speaker 29 And it doesn't take away that in my life I had someone that showed me that that's a possibility.

Speaker 29 So I don't want to take away. I want to say that maybe I didn't experience it then, but I was looking for it.

Speaker 29 And I did have someone that I was like, Man, maybe this could be the kind of love that we have, you know. 19 years old,

Speaker 29 yeah, what you know about love at 19, man, like, yeah,

Speaker 23 yeah, I'm marrying this girl, yeah, you know,

Speaker 29 and more power to anyone who does.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 29 I think that's I think it's very rare. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 23 Guys that been with their girlfriend since sixth, seventh grade and through high school and through college, and they're together. I commend them for that.

Speaker 23 But more times than not, at that age you don't really know what you want yeah i i

Speaker 23 you're not really developed or experienced enough but some people to kudos to those that who have it who who have that yeah man that's incredible also it's

Speaker 23 that's lucky yes so lucky yeah for sure man to find someone

Speaker 23 to

Speaker 23 well

Speaker 23 I shouldn't say luck. Luck is what happened when preparation meets opportunity.
But I think I look at it like this.

Speaker 23 it's easy if you're physically attracted to someone. Like football was easy to me,

Speaker 23 but I still had to work. I had to train.
I had to eat right. I had to study.
So I had to do it. I had to practice.
So, in other words, I had to work at it. Still had to work.

Speaker 23 A lot of times in a relationship, we get the things that bring us to the relationship. You forget there's still work to be done.

Speaker 29 Bro, key.

Speaker 23 What'd that be?

Speaker 29 Key, that's a that's like that's a ball.

Speaker 23 That's the thing. People don't realize

Speaker 29 You may show up naturally disposed, like, oh, no, this actually, there's a natural thing. Doesn't negate that.
You still have to work.

Speaker 23 You have to work.

Speaker 29 And it also requires, like, it's a teamwork.

Speaker 23 Yes.

Speaker 29 It's like, so one can work, and if the other's not working, it's, it's.

Speaker 23 It's two people against a problem. Yeah.
Not me against you. Because a lot of times we think it's me against you.

Speaker 29 Man, I should have got him as a therapist.

Speaker 23 I should have got Shannon. No, well, I should have listened to my therapist.

Speaker 23 Had I listened to my therapist,

Speaker 23 I'd be in a better place. But I think the thing is, is that

Speaker 23 you don't, when you're in it, when you're living it,

Speaker 29 you don't see it. You can't see it.
It's hard.

Speaker 23 And then when you get out of it, you're like, how did I miss that?

Speaker 23 Yeah.

Speaker 29 It's so true. In retrospect, it's so easy to kind of identify.

Speaker 23 It is. You know what?

Speaker 29 I wasn't putting in the work here. Again, the

Speaker 29 so I can, yeah, it's definitely one of those ones where I can see in the songwriting, I was aspiring

Speaker 23 for,

Speaker 29 I was aspiring for, it was, it was an aspirational

Speaker 23 thing.

Speaker 23 But, um, do you remember where you were when you wrote that, when you was thinking about that song?

Speaker 29 So I wrote the song. I wrote the beginnings of that song and the chorus in the car.

Speaker 29 I was leaving a,

Speaker 29 I left a, yo, shout out to Happy Perez.

Speaker 29 Happy Perez invited me to a session just down the street from where we are right now. Okay.
Just a few short blocks.

Speaker 29 And I go into this session and it's for a group unknown. Actually, never really, I don't think the group ever made it out.
Wow. But the ANR basically was like, what do you,

Speaker 23 who are you?

Speaker 29 You know, you know, this is a session, it's a closed session. And I was like, oh, I'm here.

Speaker 29 I was invited by, you know, Happy Perez. He's the producer.

Speaker 29 And they're like, we're sorry, we don't have you here and you can't be here.

Speaker 29 Hap was like, Man, don't worry, they're tripping, whatever. He was like, But I got some beats, I'm gonna give them to you, and like, maybe we can link later on.
Wow, gave me a beat CD.

Speaker 29 This is back when CDs were

Speaker 23 a thing, were a thing, burned me a CD.

Speaker 29 I jumped in the whip,

Speaker 29 first beat that came on, sure thing.

Speaker 29 And that chorus, now the verse,

Speaker 29 if you be the cash, you be the rubber band, you be the match, i won't be a fuse all that in the car

Speaker 29 and i actually wrote a completely different course actually in the car by the time i got to the crib got my inbox out for anyone out there who knows what an inbox is you know what i mean you've been doing it for a long time not a long video yeah it's a it's a it was like the early home recording okay kind of kind of pro tools okay hardware interface um went to my room and I cut it a whole different course.

Speaker 29 And Happy has it somewhere. It's not nearly as good as the course.
But I was like, I feel like it should be something else.

Speaker 29 And I rewrote the chorus, and the rest is kind of history. Wow.

Speaker 23 Did you know?

Speaker 23 Like, when you're writing this song, like, I mean, because he gave you the beat, I mean, you thought you was gonna go hang out, you like you couldn't be here, it's a private session, and then you go home and you listen to it on the way home, and you get home and you write it.

Speaker 23 Did you know that you had something special?

Speaker 29 I think when the song was done, when I finished the song, I knew the song was special. Um,

Speaker 29 I didn't know how special, special, but I knew that there was like a, there was a,

Speaker 29 there was something in it that felt

Speaker 29 new

Speaker 29 and

Speaker 29 cool.

Speaker 23 Right.

Speaker 29 You know, it just felt like, no, this feels like now, like, this is how

Speaker 29 our song should be written, you know? And, um, and at the time it was like that. It was actually a very, like,

Speaker 23 forward, it was a very

Speaker 29 in terms of the approach, it was a, it was a, a new approach in terms of RB.

Speaker 23 You do realize that there are probably some women out there probably thinking that song was about their right.

Speaker 23 You know, just so you know, just so you know.

Speaker 29 In many ways, like, there's listen, the best part about being a musician and writing songs is like how many people have found themselves in the details

Speaker 29 of the pen.

Speaker 29 And I think what makes that song special is those details. You can see them and they're vibrant.
And, like,

Speaker 29 who doesn't want it, like, what woman doesn't want to be?

Speaker 23 That was me. That was me, girl.
You You like,

Speaker 23 it went like I'll pop.

Speaker 29 you know, I don't know how many got slayed to that song that it was actually really meant in the way that it was written, but, you know,

Speaker 29 it just gets, it's what happens.

Speaker 23 Is it true the record company tried to get under Usher?

Speaker 29 So I submitted that record for Usher.

Speaker 23 Oh, you tried to give it to him. Yeah.

Speaker 29 Man, I was a starving, you know, starving artist. I was

Speaker 29 unknown, obscure, grew up here in Englewood and San Pedro and like didn't have connections like that.

Speaker 29 So it was a song that I was like, yeah, I'm willing to give it up if it's going to mean getting to the next level.

Speaker 23 Yeah. He didn't want it or that you couldn't get it to him?

Speaker 29 What I understand is like it was.

Speaker 29 I think he had the song for some time and he liked it, but just never, it didn't really make sense with

Speaker 29 everything else they were doing.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 29 And so he never really cut it, but it worked out.

Speaker 23 Did the art, did your Labor try to give any of the other songs to artists?

Speaker 29 No, not really. I think after that, they were like, nah, we're just going to let him rock.

Speaker 23 We're going to let him cook.

Speaker 23 We're just going to let him cook.

Speaker 29 He's a weirdo. Let him do his weird songs and just do his thing.

Speaker 23 I know Michael. Did you ever meet Michael Jackson?

Speaker 26 No.

Speaker 29 You know, the interesting to that song, I played that song for a couple people, and there was a point where I had gotten word through my publisher at the time

Speaker 29 and some people that I knew were kind of associated and around Michael

Speaker 29 that he had interest in Sure Thing.

Speaker 23 But I don't, I can't, I can't really confirm that.

Speaker 29 That's what I was

Speaker 23 told. It could have just been hearsay, but

Speaker 23 that would have been crazy. Wow.
That would have been amazing.

Speaker 29 That would have been a dream.

Speaker 23 This song kind of blew up like on TikTok and to hear it. So now you put this song out.
You're like, I think I got something. You don't really know.

Speaker 23 I mean, I'm sure there's no way that Michael Jackson thought Thriller would do 100 million copies. He thought he had some good songs on there, but to go to that.
Oh, he was aiming, but I

Speaker 29 you know, Mike was mad. He was like, he was like, no, I'm about to have the biggest and be the biggest.

Speaker 23 Yeah, but I mean, probably at that time, what, maybe the Beatles, maybe what, 15 million copies or Elvis or something like that? Right.

Speaker 23 When you do, I mean, in an era, I mean, you do 15 in the heat of battle.

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Speaker 23 Time, that album is

Speaker 23 100 times platinum. Yeah.
It's like, you know,

Speaker 23 you 10, 14, 15 times diamond. That's crazy.
I don't know who will ever see another album do that. Not likely.

Speaker 29 It's not likely. That's not likely.

Speaker 23 But do you know? Like, when you do a song, do you know, man, this is a banger. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 29 I know when there are songs that

Speaker 29 I take that back. I know when they're bangers to me.
Correct.

Speaker 23 Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 29 I'm like, no, that's a banger, but you know, I have my taste, that's why there's my album. I can do whatever I want, but um,

Speaker 29 some of them I don't know, honestly. Like, I'll be honest with you, I have to play it for people close to me.
Like, Drew, right, Drew over here called Skywalker early. He walked into the session.

Speaker 23 We were also close by.

Speaker 29 He walked into the session and he heard that. He was like,

Speaker 29 That's the one.

Speaker 29 And he's called it a couple times.

Speaker 23 Wow.

Speaker 29 All I want is you. He called Come Through and Chill.

Speaker 29 Yeah, yeah, Skywalker. He called all the early ones, Quickie.

Speaker 23 He was like, Oh, that's it.

Speaker 29 Those are the ones. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not always, I'm not always

Speaker 29 key to the ones that are going to be like bigger, but I do know when they're special.

Speaker 23 So, did you end up making money? You, that, that was, that was, you made some money for that one, huh? We did good.

Speaker 29 We did good. I think the uh,

Speaker 29 I always say I got lucky. I have an audience who's really down to ride

Speaker 29 because none of my albums are the same.

Speaker 29 And

Speaker 29 I know that I'm not like the obvious choice.

Speaker 29 I think that's where I built this course.

Speaker 29 We were recently invited to be scholar in residence at NYU.

Speaker 29 And I built the course around what I've learned not being the

Speaker 29 obvious choice.

Speaker 29 And what it really is, the course is called Speaking Chaos to Power.

Speaker 29 But it is about taking the uncertainty of the systems that are in front of us and finding ways to guide and direct them in ways that are more equitable for artists and i think it can be applied to anything but it's about really connecting with their audience

Speaker 29 and um i got really lucky to do that early on and um

Speaker 29 and what my next 10 you know is or are about is really helping other artists do that and become not just financially free, but also have creative freedom and to do it in parallel.

Speaker 29 I think often what we find and what I've seen that I got lucky,

Speaker 29 how I feel the most lucky is that I didn't, that I got both, you know, by accident somehow, you know, and I had, and I had great people who were kind of mentoring me, you know.

Speaker 29 So what we need, I think, now, especially for art, is to reflect the times. I think it's really important.

Speaker 29 Music was a big part of the movements that we know changed the course of this country. You know,

Speaker 29 when you hear Nina Simone say that it's important for artists to reflect the times, like

Speaker 29 she was actively

Speaker 29 doing that, strange.

Speaker 23 Change gonna come.

Speaker 29 Sam Cook, Bob Dylan's song over the big Sam Cook is the best, like one of the best.

Speaker 29 So we look at these times, it always had music and art and all of that was part of it. You know, what's going on?

Speaker 23 If we are

Speaker 29 really wanting the change i think it it's a holistic thing

Speaker 23 to

Speaker 29 expect the art to reflect the the um the desire

Speaker 29 and the need that that is change and then obviously organization and you know mobilizing of a lot of people

Speaker 29 so the course is about that and and you know making money is is one of those things that i've got to learn through a lot of mistakes

Speaker 29 that I feel like is just teachable. It's teachable for artists.
So that's my next 10.

Speaker 29 My next 10 is really dedicated to, again, black, Latino, brown voices, storytellers, leftist center like myself, who deserve development and capital to build out their ideas so as to affect the kind of change in the systems and

Speaker 29 culture that we deserve, the kind that we deserve. And I'm not being like, I'm not acting like I'm, you know,

Speaker 29 it's all altruistic. You know what I mean? It is for profit, you know.

Speaker 29 In the system that we live in right now, that is how we're interfacing. Maybe one day it'll be different.

Speaker 29 And I hope if we can, we get to inspire some of those voices that maybe change the way that things work in this paradigm. But until we get there,

Speaker 29 I want to help artists

Speaker 29 that come from similar places that I do to

Speaker 29 get there, to lock in

Speaker 29 without it being at the expense of their

Speaker 29 relationships and all the things that are.

Speaker 23 Is that really possible?

Speaker 29 I think it is.

Speaker 23 Can you reach that

Speaker 23 upper, upper, upper, that Michael Jackson, Beyonce, that I'm talking about the upper paradigm of Tom Brady, LeBron, Michael Jordan, Serena Williams. Can you reach that paradigm?

Speaker 29 You know, I'm not there. I'm not there.

Speaker 23 But you still sacrificed to get to where you said, okay, Shannon, I'm not there, but I'm here. And I still had to sacrifice.

Speaker 23 And you said you probably should have sacrificed more because you did devote some time.

Speaker 29 Well, I didn't say I should sacrifice more.

Speaker 29 I think what is important is like

Speaker 29 however I did it to get here, I could do it better. And I'm not going to get there doing it the way that I did it before.
Okay. So I want to believe, and maybe I'm crazy.

Speaker 29 Tell me, this is a conversation we'll have to keep having. Maybe I'm crazy, but I have to believe that there's a better way, that there is a holistic way to.

Speaker 23 That you can do it without the kind of sacrifices that it's going to take, maybe denying a wife or denying kids recitals or football games or soccer games.

Speaker 29 No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. What I'm saying is that it doesn't have to come at the total sacrifice of your relationships and your...

Speaker 23 Being whole and being real.

Speaker 29 It's going to require sacrifice. I do think there's a better way where,

Speaker 23 than I did,

Speaker 29 whereby your relationships stay intact, that you stay locked in with them and whole with all of your relationships, and that those things keep you sustainable.

Speaker 29 I think that's actually what when I when I've kind of like taken a break, it's the relationships with my family, my friends. Those are the ones that actually really came around me and

Speaker 29 really helped bolster me.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I think so. What type of woman do you want? If you want an independent woman, you have to understand.
I had someone say, Shannon, do you know why movie stars marry other movie stars?

Speaker 23 I say, they like each other. He's like, yeah, that's a part of it.
He said, because the other know what it's like to live in that world.

Speaker 23 So if you want a housewife, understand, you're going to have to take care of her. Right.
If you get an independent woman, she's going to think independently.

Speaker 23 So the question is, if you're going to do all that, what type of woman are you going to get? Because she's going to have to understand and she understands Savannah James, Aisha Curry, they understand.

Speaker 23 most of the time someone that has a uh a wife or significant other that does that

Speaker 23 they're not they don't have their own they're not working because i can't i can't because i can't focus on me and give you yeah

Speaker 23 so miguel what do you you know you say i don't know i thought we were talking about individual shit but yeah but i'm saying that no no no that is individual yeah you said you think you can you know sacrifice do it differently this time while keeping the relation keeping the the partner intact right yeah yeah well I mean all relationships but in in answer to my answer to your question is personally I always want to be with someone who is able to dream a dream

Speaker 29 and

Speaker 29 also have their own dream I the one thing I cannot be I can't be with someone who doesn't have a vision for themselves I need someone who also has a passion and a purpose that they feel so deeply that they're on their own mission as well.

Speaker 29 So in the way that you kind of use the analogy or the example of like an actor may be with an actor because they understand that the lifestyle is going to demand time away and this and that,

Speaker 29 I think at my core, I will always need to be and I'll always be with someone who,

Speaker 29 a person who has their own.

Speaker 29 vision and their own purpose and it's deeply like believes in it and is also effective and and So you don't understand that she's not going to always be there for you.

Speaker 23 You're back in Carl right now. And that's why it's great.
I'm a Scorpio, so I'd be like, leave me alone anyway. You feel me? I'm allowed in my space.
You know what I'm saying? Yes.

Speaker 23 That's me, though.

Speaker 29 Yeah. Yeah.
So it kind of works out. That works out.

Speaker 23 Let me ask you this. I've been always wanting to know, because I'm getting so many different answers.
Streaming.

Speaker 23 Now, I'm sure Drake and Taylor Swift and The Weekend, they cool with streaming. Yeah.
They're doing billion, billion, billion, billion.

Speaker 23 Where is Miguel on streaming?

Speaker 29 Miguel currently, the real numbers are like 27 million a month.

Speaker 29 Every million translates to about $4,000 currently.

Speaker 29 So do the math.

Speaker 23 That ain't no bad money. Okay.
So, so.

Speaker 23 I mean, I could make it work. Right.
But

Speaker 23 I could make it work.

Speaker 29 We can make it work.

Speaker 29 However, when you look at what

Speaker 29 kind of money would be made with a purchase,

Speaker 29 that's when all music is all available at $9.99 a month at all times. So we're fighting for attention.

Speaker 23 Well,

Speaker 29 streaming as it is, as a paradigm, devalues the art and the

Speaker 29 sacrifice, the time of a lot of people, not just the artists, but the engineers, the writers, all of the ecosystem of really making music.

Speaker 23 So

Speaker 29 the way I I see it is that streaming is not in and of itself,

Speaker 29 the offering is not in and of itself

Speaker 29 a threat.

Speaker 29 The idea is fine. It's the ownership, it's the equity, it is the payout,

Speaker 29 it is the mechanical way that it works on behalf of the art that empowers it, that is the lifeblood of it that needs to be corrected. And personally, I think the answer really comes in

Speaker 29 somewhere in

Speaker 29 ownership, artist ownership of. And I don't have no answer to this.
I'm not invested in any company. I've heard of a couple.
I have a lot of interest in companies like Subvert.

Speaker 29 Big shout out to Subvert. Love what they're doing.

Speaker 29 There's a couple companies out here who are looking for better alternatives whereby the artist has ownership in the company itself, streaming, and obviously their IP.

Speaker 29 It's an important issue that I think,

Speaker 29 once answered, will

Speaker 29 revolutionize

Speaker 29 not just the business part, but the actual quality of the music.

Speaker 29 And until it becomes something that's owned by artists, artists owned, and there's equity there for artists at this stage of

Speaker 29 the paradigm that we live in, because we know too much now.

Speaker 29 We know that we've been taken advantage of for decades, for centuries, as artists when it comes to writing and

Speaker 29 ownership of masters and whatnot. And we've seen great examples of ownership and retaining ownership of masters.

Speaker 23 A la,

Speaker 29 Birdman, and

Speaker 23 No Limit.

Speaker 29 We've seen it do really well.

Speaker 29 That the only next step is for there to be an artist-owned, to me, an artist-owned streaming platform.

Speaker 29 When it's artists-owned and protected and maintained, to me, that then gives it a whole other level of

Speaker 29 it is is for us by us.

Speaker 29 You know, and I think personally, what I would love to see in the next five is for there to emerge an artist-owned, not one artist, but a collective of artists-owned streaming platform.

Speaker 29 And I think with that leverage,

Speaker 29 it will probably benefit the people who create the music. And that's what we deserve.

Speaker 23 But

Speaker 23 will it ever be like it was in the 70s and 80s and the 90s when people actually go purchase hard copies of albums? I hope so.

Speaker 29 You can go get my vinyl right now.

Speaker 29 S1c.la.

Speaker 29 I hope so. I think people are still, I still buy vinyl.
I still buy music, you know.

Speaker 23 Yeah, but you have to go to like what, like one of those little specialty shops, like, right? Because there's no more tower music. And, you know, what was the other one?

Speaker 23 I forget the other name, the name. They used to go and, you know, you go through it.
I remember back in the 70s, you go and like, could you play this for me? And they would put it on and you listen.

Speaker 23 And you listen to it like, yeah, this okay okay i'm gonna i'm gonna get this but

Speaker 23 you know

Speaker 29 it it will it ever will it ever be a time like that again i think it'll be novelty i think that version will be a novelty experience which is which is dope like i still love to go to a record store and put a record on and go like let me listen to it in headphones yeah yeah that would man it's dope It's a dope experience.

Speaker 29 And that will be there just the same way like people still go

Speaker 29 jump.

Speaker 23 Play video games.

Speaker 29 People still go ride ride horses like we had the car we the car replaced the horse but the horse is still an experience you know and there's a market for that it's still something about having that physical copy of that album yeah but we are people we're we're

Speaker 29 we're we like convenience you know what i'm saying like this vsop is is the product of a lot of hard work correct and development and all of that but you're trying to you having that available at all times is the goal yes when it's on demand yeah you want to have it yeah hold it When we originally had, it only came out e-commerce, but we didn't really start taking off until we got it in the packaging shop.

Speaker 23 Right. You know, the Lee's liquors, you know, the total wine, the ABC.

Speaker 33 Yeah.

Speaker 23 So I definitely get what you're saying. And people have made everything so convenient.
That's why Amazon is what it is. Because, hey.

Speaker 23 They give it to you the next day. They might get it to you that day.
You really want it.

Speaker 29 Listen, if it's not on prime, you might just not buy it now.

Speaker 23 You know what I'm saying? Like, if it's not prime.

Speaker 29 So, so, you know, there's a part of that experience that's just the reality. So I don't know that we'll ever fully go back to just hard copy, but I do think that

Speaker 29 as it affects the music, finding a way to take back the value and

Speaker 29 reaffirm, re-establish the value of music

Speaker 29 is something that... to me is top of mind because I love this art form.

Speaker 29 This is not my livelihood only. I'm passionate about music.
I love music and it changes. We don't do anything without music.

Speaker 23 No.

Speaker 29 There's an intro to this show. Yes.
With music.

Speaker 23 Yes.

Speaker 29 Every film has music.

Speaker 29 Every experience that was significant to you, well, maybe not every, but we've got plenty of memories that.

Speaker 23 Well, we grew up around it. We cleaned the house on Saturday.

Speaker 29 We listened to music. Listen, the toilet would never be as clean as it is if there was not music.

Speaker 23 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 29 Like, we clean different with music.

Speaker 29 So

Speaker 29 I do think that

Speaker 29 there's a big discrepancy between the real value and what it means to people in life and actually

Speaker 29 how that is reflected in how we show that it's valuable.

Speaker 29 And there is a better way. It is my,

Speaker 29 I believe that that can be

Speaker 29 evolved and be more equitable for artists once there's an artist-owned platform.

Speaker 23 What have you learned about the music business? Being in it for two decades.

Speaker 23 what have you learned about the music industry?

Speaker 29 All of it is, you know, money is a tool and it is motivated by money.

Speaker 29 That's why I don't take things personally. You know, it's like even the Grammys, and I don't mean to remove anything from

Speaker 29 the significance of winning a Grammy at all. I'm being,

Speaker 29 having won, has changed my life.

Speaker 29 So

Speaker 29 I can't wait to perform on the Grammys again, if it should ever happen, or win a Grammy, whatever.

Speaker 29 But the Grammys, any award show, all of that is still a part of a larger

Speaker 29 economic effort to make money.

Speaker 29 So that program that you watch when you see your favorite artists on the stage performing is really to make ad dollars.

Speaker 30 Crazy, the NFL.

Speaker 29 Every single advertisement you see during the Super Bowl, they make him

Speaker 29 millions of people

Speaker 23 for 30 seconds.

Speaker 29 So

Speaker 29 this is all to say that my understanding of the music business is that it's really been in the interest of

Speaker 29 the people at the top again.

Speaker 29 And

Speaker 29 in the same thinking of the conversation about the streaming platforms, it's really like, at what point are we going to take the savvy that we are accumulating over social media and the information being shared and what we've learned in history to really take ownership

Speaker 29 of the opportunities

Speaker 29 to

Speaker 29 really be directly connected to our audience? I think plenty of them are. That's why you see Tyler.
That's why you see Billy. That's why you see certain ones, Gokray.

Speaker 29 I mean, these are artists I love, who have really tapped into their audience and really connected deeply with their audience in a way that whatever they do, wherever they go, products they make, they are locked in, you know?

Speaker 29 Yeah.

Speaker 23 You mentioned something earlier. You said in your 40s you want to be able to help people,

Speaker 23 young, black, brown,

Speaker 23 Latino communities. What advice,

Speaker 23 you've been in this thing two decades. What advice are you going to impart

Speaker 23 on the youth coming up that want to do what you did?

Speaker 29 Be your own hero. Operate by your values.

Speaker 29 If you don't know the answer,

Speaker 29 go with the best

Speaker 29 option and adjust.

Speaker 29 Overthinking will stunt the growth. And

Speaker 29 that's it. Live by your values.
Be your own hero. Make the best decision right in front of you and adjust as needed.

Speaker 29 If you can operate from your values, you'll always get to the feeling that you're actually

Speaker 29 looking for. Wow.

Speaker 23 This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on.

Speaker 23 Just simply go back to Club Shea Shea profile, and I'll see you there.

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Club Shay Shay - Miguel Part 1

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