Club Shay Shay - Dr. Cheyenne Bryant Part 1

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One of of the biggest things that kind of breaks my heart with you is you've accomplished so much in everything you've touched transactionally.

It has turned to gold, all the way down to the gold jacket.

But like the fig tree, you still haven't found yourself.

And finding yourself takes the heart. The mind replays what the heart can't delete.
Hello. It's time for the grown man in you to grow up.

All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.
Want a slice, got the roll of dice, that's why. All my life, I've been grinding all my life.

Been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price. Want a slice, got to roll the dice.
That's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life.

Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Sheche. I am your host, Shannon Sharp.
I'm also the proud of Club Shete.

Stopping by for conversation on the drink today is a revered voice in popular media and academic circles. She's dedicated near two decades to transforming lives.

A renowned life coach, a spiritual mentor, a psychology expert, a community activist, a motivational speaker, a cultural change maker, influential brand ambassador, a producer, an author, and a host.

Here she is, ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Cheyenne Bryant.
You know, that was good. That was good.

Did we do you justice? You did me good. I appreciate that.
Well, thank you so much. Appreciate you for stopping by, Club Shayshay.
It's been an honor. It's an honor to have you here.

Yeah, it's an honor to be here. I watch your show, obviously.
Thank you. I think you are a genius of what I just told you off camera, right?

How you pose your questions. It ain't messy, but it's creative.
Thank you. And it's wordplay, and I like it.
So I'm excited to be here and be able to provide my expertise to your viewers.

But you're good today. You're good.
You're in a good space. I am so good.
I am so good. My book launched today.
Dead. Literally, today that we're filming at least.
Yes.

My book, Mental Detox, launched today. I got a double book deal.
Shout out to 50 Cent, Curtis Jackson, for taking the lead on that

with Random House, which is the biggest publishing company in the world. Wow.
And so 50 believed in me, and he took the lead. And they said, Well, we believe in her too.
We love her.

And so here I am with two book deals. My first book, Mental Detox, launches today.
And then my second book, Marches in 2026, launches. So I'm excited.
I'm a happy camper.

You would like to toast this to the great congratulations, two-book deal, Mental Detox, just launched, and another book coming in 2026. Congratulations on all your success.
Thank you. Thank you.

Oh, and I'm not a a drinker, but this is some movie.

That's what I talked about.

It's about to get good in here. It's about to get good.
My chest ain't even burned this, but it is good. No.
You know, dark brings. You sure you want this interview after this, dark?

Dark makes you go crazy. Okay?

Let me say,

we're going to be tame. We're going to be tame the first the first hour.

No. Now you ain't going to tell me what to do.
Okay, okay. Bye bad.
Bye.

Let's go back. Let's start where it began.
Yeah. You're a native, Los Angeles.
I am.

As a kid,

what were you like as a child? What was Cheyenne like? Yes, what was Cheyenne like?

I was always feisty and strong.

Always

an overthinker, a processor. I was naturally an analyst.
I've always been the leader amongst my friend group who are also leaders. You know, I don't have followers in my group.
Everybody's leaders.

Everybody's a leader. Everyone Everyone leads.
I love that. We're all strong and we all are so solid and vertical within ourselves that we don't need followers.
We're solid with the leadership.

I was a product of teenage parents. My parents were 16 when they had me.
They were high school sweethearts

and they planned me. And so I was the product of, yeah, of an oopsie.
They said, hey, walking home from school one day, a true story. My father brags about it all the time.

He says, baby, you were made from love. And he says, they were walking home and they planned me and they can only afford a motel.

and they went and paid for a motel and they conceived me yeah I was born conceived in a motel y'all okay in a motel and then you know and then here I go and so my grandparents stepped in and raised me because my parents are obviously teenage parents that didn't understand that you know you have to raise a child after the birth of a child they were they were they were basically kids themselves

trying to raise a kid nobody had it look yeah there's really no guide to how to you know be a parent i mean everybody thinks they had it figured out but at 16 yeah we're kids trying to figure out our life and now we brought another life life into the mix.

There you go, and so I mean, it's like you're growing up beside, like your parents are like 20, you're a four or five-year-old. Yeah, and you're like, is that your sister? Is that your brother?

And so, we grew up together. Yes, we grew up together.
And what was that like? It was actually, no, it was amazing.

Um, my father, he ended up being one of the biggest gangster and dope dealers in the South Bay area. And, you know, moving weight to the East Coast,

Ohio, being one of them, youngstown. And I could tell it now because it's no longer going on.

But he transitioned from being one of the biggest dope dealers into being one of the biggest entrepreneurs and a longsherman here in Los Angeles, which is working for the port for 20 years.

And I got to see him go from the hood to the hills.

And it was really beautiful seeing that. I mean, Shannon, we would come home days when he was in his gangsta era and I couldn't have a key to the house.
I couldn't be there alone.

And he would have to go in. the house with a pistol first and check everything to make sure we can go in.
I had the password to the safe that was in the garage.

And so that if anybody came in, give them everything. You know, don't let them hold you hostage or doing that.

So I grew up a product of a street guy, a straight gangster who didn't play about me, who, if I made a phone call, he was going to air it out. And that was a luxury for me.

And so I was on Sway's radio one time and he said, you know, Doc, you talk about your upbringing and your father and being the little girl from the inner city as though it was like an honor.

You don't talk about it in a way that's like, you know, I came from the hood and it was all this

adversity. It was adversity.
But

I'm a proud little girl from the hood. And I'm a proud product of a father who was a street daddy.
I'm a proud product of a mother who, you know, also was in the streets with him.

And if it wasn't for me being a product of them, I wouldn't know how to create the peace and the tools that I have now to provide to my clients, to your viewers, to everyone else who follows me, because I wouldn't have had to bear crawl to understand how to get out this thing called the inner city.

And I always say it wasn't me knowing where I was going. It was me knowing that I had to get get the hell out of there.
Right.

And oftentimes I think of all ages, people get stuck in, well, I don't know where I'm going. What's my purpose? All you really need to know, Shannon, is that I don't

want to be. I don't want to be here.
And that day that I realized that, I put my track shoes on, even though people see heels every day now. And my track shoes are still on.
I'm never taking them off.

And I ran as far as I could. I ran into six degrees, three doctorates, a master's degree, a house at 19, my first home, a daycare at 19, three retail stores on Merrill's.

But damn, you was a professional student.

But I was a professional student for a long time and entrepreneur.

But but I really want people to know, and I know we're early on in the interview, but I want people to know who are watching that you do not have to know where you are going.

You just have to know you want to get the hell up out of whatever you're in, whether it's a relationship, a circumstance, an environment. Just go.

And when you start to trust God, He does something really special, which is ordering your steps.

And as He orders your steps and you stay vertical in who you are and you lean on Him and all your understanding, you nest in that word and you call Him out on His principles that are in the Bible that he promises you.

I'm telling you, God shows up and he shows out. And he does give you back

the time that the locusts and the canken worms took from you. He really does give that back to you.
So I want folks watching this to know that, listen, I was just a little girl in the hood.

And I promise you, there was nothing around me, not to put the people down around me. There was nothing in my environment that I looked at and said, I want to be.

There was everything in my environment that said, hell, no, hell, no, and hell no. No.
And those hell no's got me to all my yeses.

So I just want people to know that early on because people look at me or you and they're like, you know, they're way over there. I'm not way over there for people.
I'm still touchable.

I'm still that little girl in the hood. I just happened to grow up and make different decisions now.
But I'm still her. And I never ever will not claim her.

I never will not allow her to show up in a conversation and not allow her to be in her abandonment sometimes. And I will always make sure she knows you can feel that way as a little girl.

The woman in me, I have your back. And I'll knock everything off this table for you every time.
That's what self-love is.

And I want people, men and women, to know that, especially within our community, because it's important that they see our wounds, not just the heal Dr. Bryant, because that's not where it started.

So you made a conscious decision that I'm not going to be a product of my environment and I'm not going to be. my circumstances in which I'm currently in.

You made that decision at a very, very young age that, you know what? Yes, this is my environment. I don't really see anybody that I aspire to be like.

So let me get the hell out of here and find some people that I do aspire to be like. There you go.
And I'm the oldest of seven. Oh, so that's.
And I'm the first grandchild.

So there was nobody ahead of me, Shannon, to say this is the blueprint. It was just folks around me to show me what not to do.
And I say this about a lot of folks who are PCs, pastor kids, right?

Or they got parents who've been married 30, 40 years. Right.
And the marriage is rocking and rolling. Oftentimes, those kids are robbed of seeing all of the.

Fake perfection and not seeing what not to do. So they usually come out that household and they're extremely rebellious and they end up doing the total opposite of what their parents did.

And I say this, you know, because I love Cam. Me and Cam, we are great friends.
Cam has thanked me for a lot of

the impact, positive impact I've had on. Cam Newton or Cam Newton.
Cam Newton. Cam Newton.
Okay, okay. Cam Newton.
Okay. Okay.
You say Cam. No, no, Cam Newton.
Put it up. Cam Newton.

But I say, and I want to say Cam is a perfect example of what I just described. He is a pastor's child.
Yes. His parents are still married.
Yes. He comes from good stock.
Yes.

And we're not saying that Cam ain't good stock, but his decisions are not good stock.

So just want to show people the example of what I'm referring to.

Then you get a little girl like me from the inner city and parents, our teenage parents, we got a lot of trauma and different drug dealing and drug addiction and things going on and trauma in the house.

And I was had the luxury of seeing what not to do. And I just knew if I did the opposite, it had to be better than that.

And it ended up being way better than that. Now it makes sense to me why your dad was so inappropriate.
You're the oldest. You're the oldest.
He was the girl. You're the oldest.
He was daddy's girl.

Daddy's girl. Yeah.
It makes perfect sense now because you adore.

I'm just listening at you talking the first 10 minutes your daddy's your world you adore it i adore him and and i and and we're gonna get into this because it's i mean it's i mean all these advanced degrees that you have

were you a good were you you were good in school i was good in school but i was uh i was very um

very

you got me

oh there you go you were i was very good in school but i was you probably

you're not gonna talk to me anyway you're not gonna disrespect me and one thing my parents did, and I say my parents are my mother and father, Kim and Darren, and my grandparents, Mariah and Bailey, because all four of them were the village that raised me.

One thing, not one, one of the many things they did amazing was they raised a little girl with a lot of self-love and a hell of a backbone. I'm very vertical.

And so I stand very strong on respect and on boundaries. That wasn't something I was lacking.
But when those boundaries were crossed, when it came to, you know, K-Tell academia was amazing.

But I was one that I got kicked out of LA Unified School District and I had to go

permit to Long Beach Unified School District.

I mean, I was just not going to tolerate no BS.

And so if that meant that I had to strong arm or use muscle, whether it be verbally or physical, then I was going to make sure that they understood that this is a tree you don't bark up.

Look it like this. Because normally when we came up, women like to have this complexion like this.
What did we do? They were like, oh,

I'm not going to even entertain this. Oh, oh, oh.
So listen.

I think I brought the entertainment, the production, the cameras, and I edited it just the way I wanted it to be edited. Yes.
And you brought that life dock.

But also, you have to remember that I was a little girl who had the privilege of being able to make one phone call. Oh, that was scary.
You see, you have to scare your dad. So, but I hadn't all you.

I had that muscle too. And I got to give my father and my family props because we were the family that would, you know, they would pull up and they would be very, very protective over me.

My father has done many things that has protected me. He's ran into clubs.
He's done a lot lot of things on behalf of me alongside my grandmother, my mother.

They're a very protective family. You're going to never get that mad.

Well, listen,

my father passed away two years ago. Oh, okay.
I'm sorry to hear you. No.
I'm sorry to hear you. That's okay.
So being that, I might get

what now. Because to your point, he used to be like, ain't nobody coming around.
And he used to say, and he gave me a ring when I was a teenager. Funny you said that.
And

it was like his pinky ring, which is a big ring with a lot of diamonds.

And said, put put this on your finger until a man gives you a ring i'll take it off well i've had two rings but he also wasn't too fond of me being married because he would say baby you know successful women don't have to get married i'm like daddy no i want to be a mother and a and a wife right so it's going to happen on your my watch your watch everybody watch this episode is brought to you by prize pick it's the holiday season the best time of year for sports bowl games basketball matchup playoff pushes it's all happening at once and while you and i out here making decisions every day what gifts to buy, what to eat, which games to watch, there's one place where it feels good to be right.

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You mentioned that you, teenage parents, and your father sold drugs, and I think your mom became addicted to drugs. My mom was addicted to the drug that my father sold at the same time.

How did that work?

How did it work? You mean for them or for me, the little girl trying to provide it?

I'm kind of like, if I'm selling and I'm the person that I care about that I can see the child with, I'm going to do everything I can not to let her get a hold of it.

And I definitely don't want to see

my baby see this, see her mommy in this condition and knowing I'm the supply. I'm part of the reason why.
Wow. I love that you said that.
You're so on point.

He went and put out a flute on the street and said, if anyone sells to her, then

got to deal with me. And after he seen that he couldn't control or take everybody out, right?

At some point, from what he told me, he had to put his hands up. And he had to just let, you know, life take its form.

And the beautiful thing thing is that at some point before he passed away, thank God, my mother ended up being, she got some health conditions that handicapped her where she couldn't pick her arms up and she couldn't even move or walk.

And it was in her addiction. And I remember her calling me, saying, baby, I can't lift my hands.
And I'm like, huh?

And so we spent years of having her go to different specialists and seeing what they can do. And finally, my good friend, Dr.
Aromo Ursino, Ursino Aromo, he said, she needs surgery.

Or this is, she has a disgenerated disc disease. It's never going get better so anyway she had surgery when I tell you that God

God keeps his promises and he does hear your prayers and the funny thing is Shannon all my life I prayed for her to be off drugs to be off drugs be off drugs when I finally told God you know what I no longer can pray that because it's starting to consume me

I'm gonna let you have her now I'm gonna pay bills and I'm gonna feed her So I'm gonna always take care of my mother. But as far as her trajectory of her life, I got a hands-on.
She was in your hands.

Hands off. That's when her health condition came upon her.
And he broke her down to where she couldn't even move. And after her surgery, she came home and it was just her and I.

And she had a bag that she had to use the bathroom in. She couldn't get up.
I mean, nothing. It was an eight-hour surgery.
And they removed all of her discs. And it was just so intense.

She ain't touched a drug. Every since then.
She is now the vice president of my company. She has her own health care company where she helps people who are disabled like herself.

That is her company, her business that she started.

She cooks and cleans and runs my entire household. I bought the house.
She makes it a home.

And so when I tell you again that God will give you back the time that the locusts and the cake and worms took, I am not playing. But the

key to him doing that is your obedience to him. And, you know, the Bible says it's better to be obedient than sacrifice.

And I was obedient to his word and I never wavered in well-doing, even with the adversity that was going on with my mom being on that.

When I turned him, her over to him, God showed me the power of surrender. And from that day, my mom has been sober.
She has been the best mother that me and my brother can ever ask for.

She does everything she's never done as a child. And to this day, it is, I still look at her sometimes across the room.
I'm like, she is really like

sober and a mom. Wow.
And it's natural. And she's doing this.
And we're here. And, you know, that's something that when someone was in addiction for 20, 25 years,

you don't break it they usually die yeah at the hands of that substance um so just always wanting to give god that glory but but i again i want people to know that god's promises are always sitting right there available for you and i'm telling you what breaks that promise open is our obedience and our trust and our faith in him that's all we need he don't ask for much and faith isn't something that we know faith is an action word belief is an action word it is keeping your commitment to god doing what you said you would do even when you don't feel like it.

Also saying, God, and this is my affirmation to this day. I said, God, I don't know what's going on, but I know it ought to trust you.

As long as I can trust you, I can nest in you, then I know that I'm good. And so I show up to whatever GPS God gives me, and I say, but I showed up.
And when I tell you, he always does

everything in the perfect position and in the perfect,

in the perfect alignment when you just show up. See, people think they got to know everything.

If I know everything or if I don't know everything, I should say then I can't show up. I don't know how to do it.
But what does God say that I am? But if you know everything, that's not faith.

Faith is believing in the unknown. You're going to take this leap and know that everything's going to be okay.
And faith is a spirit thing. It's not an ego thing.

Faith is I know like I know like I know. It's not I think.
And it's also you saying that I understand that if God is closer than my breath, then he can't be outside of me.

So that's why he says I never leave you or forsake you because he can't. And I want to wrap on this.
He also says if you make your bed in hell, there I am.

That means that God allows you to have your free will because he loves you.

But if your free will happens to be in hell, he's not going to stop you, but he'll be in there with you, which means all you got to do is tap him because he's there. Ask.
And then he'll shift you.

But how many of us are not willing to shift? Because we get so stuck in the dysfunction that we know,

the dysfunctional relationships, the dysfunctional part of ourself that we know, that the shift becomes so scary, that the better is something that is uncertain. So we don't go to the better.

We stay with with what we know. And God says, Well, I'll stay with you.
But the Bible says, What reports will you believe? Will you believe the reports of your dysfunction, your trauma?

You're not good enough. You're not qualified.
That you are the things you've been through. You are the things that you see in your environment.
Or will you believe the reports that I told you?

That I'm the big dog. I'm the Alpha, the Omega, I'm omnipresent, that I know the plans I have for you when I formed you in the belly.
And then

plans were to prosper you, give you a good life, not to harm you. So whenever you are in harm, you're not in what? My plans.

So, how do you know when you're not in God's alignment? Is when it's you in harm, when it's not prosperous.

Because he also says, Think only on these thoughts that are prosperous, positive, and praiseworthy. The reason why he tells you that is because, as a man thinketh, so be it.
Come on, baby.

So, he's telling you what to think. So, when you think on those thoughts, hold on.
So, are you?

So, the man that says he is, and the man that says he is not, are what?

Both right.

So, God said, what reports will you believe? And I love you so much, I'll let you believe them. And even if you believe yourself in hell, I'm a ride with you in there.

There ain't, listen, there ain't a human that can ride like that. And this is why I tell people, I'm not here to be liked.
I got a purpose. And my obedience is to God, not to y'all.

Because as long as I'm obedient to God, we're riding in His will. But the moment that I fall prey to dogma or being obedient to your thoughts or what you think or what you need, now I'm in your will.

And the only thing that had Peter, who was walking on water to Jesus, depart depart and fall was because he took his eyes

off the wheel.

And really quick, I got to say this because Peter called Jesus out. How many of us call God out? I'm asking for this.
If it's really you, God, show up. Peter said, Jesus, if it's you and you real,

call on me to walk on this water. Jesus said, I'm that dude.
What's up? Peter.

Got off his boat, walked on water, and Jesus said, all you got to do is keep your eyes on me because I'm the one you called.

I'm the one that's blessing you. He looked down in.
He looked down, but you know why he looked down? Because a storm came.

A storm. How many of us have been in storms that have us lose our faith, lose our walk, lose our goal, lose our focus? Most of the time.

You know why? Because most of the time, that's the only time we really call on God is when we're in trouble.

Like when we're prosperous, we're ascending to the top. We don't need him.

We need him when, oh, damn, lost my job. I lost this.
I didn't get this promotion. Things happened in my life.
I'll call on him now. But when things was going good, you thought it was all you.

You didn't know he was right there with you the whole while. He'd been riding.
Well, you was riding shotgun. He was driving.
But you didn't realize that.

And when you called on him, like Peter called on Jesus, when the storm came again, why did you take your eyes off of who already saved you from the last storm and the last storm and the last storm?

This is why I say the only person I have to focus on is my God. The only person I'm obedient to is my God.
It don't matter who don't like me.

No one has to like me. I'm vertical in the God that's in me.
Nothing else has to make sense for me because I'm not here for it to make sense. I'm here to do what?

Trust him in all my ways and acknowledge him first. Congratulations on your mom being sober.
But let me ask you this.

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hey what up y'all it's dj envy from the breakfast club now picture this you open the car door you step inside and there's no driver in the front seat The car is driving itself, handling everything from pickup to drop off.

That's what hits you. Waymo isn't just another ride share, it's the future of rideshare.
It's a total Waymoment.

It's the feeling when you finally get a minute to yourself where you can sit back, relax, and actually enjoy the ride. No mystery car, no small talk, just you and your moment on the go.

Download the Waymo app and request your first ride today. Get 30% off your first three rides with promo code B Club30.
That's B Club30. That's B C L U B 30.
See terms in the app.

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I'm Shay Shea at checkout: terms and conditions. Why? You say you're the oldest of seven, correct? Your dad has six kids with five different women.
Oh, you done did your homework, baby.

With that being said, and we know how you view your dad,

when you found out that you had other siblings,

how did that make you feel? I love that. So

when my father went to have my first little sister,

Ginger,

I said, and I was only 10, and I said, Dad, why would you have another child?

and I said it better not be a girl uh-oh yeah

and he said well baby

it's a girl it's a girl and things happen right because I'm 10 and I said well I don't like her I'm not happy you ain't even met her yet and I won't be her sister right at 10 years old my little sister Ginger came out to love and worship the ground I walk on

And it took me, and this is something that I just have to be transparent about. It took me until I I was early 20s to have a sit down with my sister Ginger, who is my baby now, and say, I'm sorry.

I didn't accept you. It had nothing to do with you.

But I love you. You're my sister.
I'll rock with you. You're mine.
And so for my father, it was an issue. But what saved him and me was he kept having kids.

So what I realized was,

You know, anyone can replace the baby. You just got to have another baby.

But guess what? person can never be replaced? You can never have another firstborn. Nope.
Ever.

So when God told me, listen, I put you in the firstborn order. So you ain't got to worry about being replaced.
Whoever's next got to worry about being replaced. I said, you know what?

I'm good with that.

And my father and I, not that he doesn't love all of his kids. They know he does, but they also know I grew up with him.
I grew up in his gangster era.

I grew up in his dope Dylan era. I watched him transition from, you know, being bullhead in the streets to being Darren, the family working man.

And he always tells me no one else got that opportunity. You know, I witnessed him, you know, being shot.
I witnessed him just so much. And it's like

I had the opportunity to see the transition that they didn't get. And not that.
you know, they were robbed because it was tough times.

They actually probably had a luxury of not seeing it, but it gave me a different oomph in me that we all have, but that makes me the most like my father. And yeah, we have have a special bond.

We really adore each other. And he dotes on me.
He would tell me, you the Kobe Bryant. You're the Michael Jordan of the woman.
And, you know, to all the fathers out there, that is so important. Yes.

If you have daughters,

you know,

a woman is what her daddy makes her. Straight up, especially when it comes to men.

And she can easily be manipulated if you're a man who doesn't input the things in her that allow her to see red flags. My father would have real one-on-one conversations with me.

He talked to me like his baby, but he also would say, you know, do X, Y, and Z. And it would be a n ⁇ .
And I like that because he talked to me straight up. Right.

And he would explain to me that, you know, men use money to run power like this, or men may say these things that mean this. And so I had this open relationship where I was.
So you had the playbook.

I had the playbook. And I can come to him and say, dad, you know, this is what's happening in my relationship.
What does this mean?

Even if it was sexual. Now, if it was sexual, he loved Jack and Coke.
He said, baby, let me get my Jack and my Coke before we have that conversation.

But he was very open to those conversations. But I want men to know that a woman is what her daddy makes her.

And so it is your responsibility to build that woman up so that when she's out there, she has a realistic expectation of a man, not a fairy tale ideology.

Because I ended up to you, what you said earlier about, you know, you're never going to have a man. I ended up with a fairy tale ideology that I had to.

work through and process and unpack because I expected men to be this fairy tale that my father was. He was this knight shining armor.
You call him, he's there. He bought me my first car.

We're in Vegas and, you know, he was a drug guy. So we're in Vegas and I'm 16.
He's giving me thousands and thousands to gamble, to spend. And that was reality for that type of guy.

But my dad also told me if a man looks like me, smells like me, or acts like me, run. Run.
Do not bring him home and do not date him. So he never glamorized being a womanizer.

He never glamorized having six by five women. He told me, this is what daddy did, but I don't want this for you.
And there's too many men who do those things.

And because they are too egocentric, right, versus caring about their daughters, that they would glamorize their behavior so their daughters won't look at them in a certain way.

But you are tearing her up because now she thinks that the right chosen person looks and acts like you. So when she brings you home, that's your problem.

But my father told me from the beginning, it's a hard no. And when I did attempt to date, because I really never dated street guys, probably because he raised me like that.

I dated more like athletes when I was in a college athlete or some of that sort or just a really good boy next door.

Go ahead. I'm just I'm just see I told y'all he not messy but he crafty.
I told y'all that. See? See?

But when I when I first tried to date my first little street guy, my dad didn't even he said, let me see a picture. He said, what do you do? I said he does real estate.

He said, just like he said, that

don't do real estate.

I said, he don't. He don't.
He don't. And my dad called me every day.
I'm not lying for seven days to tell me to get rid of that man because one of them is going to end up dead or in jail.

So guess what? You got rid of him. Got rid of him.
The right thing to do. Yeah.

You said your dad said that if he ever got married, the wife would become before the kids.

He said the opposite. The kids come first? And I disagreed with him.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I disagree.
Absolutely. We had literally almost a two-hour debate.
Me and my father would debate a lot.

We have almost identical personalities. Okay.
And he would never tuck his tail to anybody. I'm like the only person he'd tuck and say, baby, listen, if we got to agree to disagree, then that's fine.

Or daddy's not trying to say nothing that's going to upset you. Baby, we saying the same thing.
We say it because he's just trying to be daddy and not hurt me.

But anybody else, it would have been, you know, just it is what it is. So move on.
Move on. What have been war? But we had a long conversation.

He told me, because I had a fiancé at the time who actually had two beautiful girls. And he was putting me before his adult daughters.
And that's the right hierarchy. Yes.

And my father said, he can do that in your household, but the woman in my house would never come ever before my kids. And I said, Daddy, I don't agree.
And I'm your daughter.

I don't agree in that hierarchy. He said, you don't have to agree with what I do in my household.
But when y'all come here,

a woman will never come before my girls ever. And so, you know, but again,

that's also a man who has six kids by five different women. Right.
And I love my father, as y'all can see, but I'm also a realist. A man who can

procreate with multiple women and not make a family with none of them or only one of them. That says a lot about his lack of respect for women in general.

So I would have never expected my father to say that he respects a woman who he's romantic with so much that she would come before his kids.

Because obviously the respect level for women was limited from the jump in order for you to be able to do things in that nature. And that's for any man, including myself.

You think that's a respect thing?

A man that he lacks respect for women, if he lays down and have kids with multiple women, he doesn't doesn't respect them. Is that what?

Yes. And in addition to that, he doesn't respect himself.
And I also think that he lacks self-love. Any man who will lay with a woman unprotected, right?

Let's not just talk about obviously procreating that can happen. We're talking about health-wise diseases that can happen.

He lacks. What if he protected himself? Would it be better?

Now, this is my thing. I do agree.
I think that. It's not about what we do, it's how we do it.

So if a man wants to be a man who is very honest and transparent about, look, I'm just trying to be intimate. I'm in my intimacies.

I'm just trying to have sex and have a good time, but we're going to do it safe. We're going to get tested and use protection and no one's getting pregnant.

And I'm telling you out on the front, there is nothing wrong with a transparent man who women are signing up to or a transparent woman that men are going to sign up to be in alignment with.

Nothing at all. I'm talking about a man who is sleeping with the woman and the woman who's sleeping with the man and both are unprotected.
It ain't just the man's accountable.

The woman is accountable as well. And now you have multiple families and multiple homes that are broken.
We have an issue here. That is a bad decision-making crisis in our community.

And it's also people who are living in this very present world of they're so used to dysfunction and it's become a pathology within our community that that is the norm and their baseline of what they do.

And so doing anything outside of that is not just only unknown, but it's not even a norm that they know how to create. That's the part that makes it sad to me.

You hold, held your father in such high regard.

How was it,

how were you able to shift and say, you know what, I love my dad,

but I don't love him enough to have a partner like my dad. Love that.
My dad is a hell of a father. He is not a good man to his women.
My dad is a womanizer, but he is a hell of a father.

I truly believe that

the womanizer in him and him being able to take his ego out of it when it comes to his relationship with his kids and not glamorize his bad behavior is what made him such an amazing father.

Because he's able to say, I know what I do to women. So let me teach you what it looks like so you don't run into the same type of joker.
And my father never

put himself on a pedestal. about the decisions that he was making.
When I got with my ex-fiancé, who had two beautiful girls, right, by two different women, my father said, who took great care of me.

I was a kept woman. The man was a great guy.
My father said, Let me explain something to you, baby. We got engaged.

He said, You told me since you can even speak that you never want a man who has multiple kids with multiple women, that you never want a man who is a man like daddy is.

He said, What makes that man different? Because it's two and not five.

And I said, You know what? You're on to something.

You're on to something. You're right.
It doesn't make a difference. He still is a man who has multiple kids by multiple women.

But even in that, my father didn't say, Well, it's okay because I got multiple kids. You know, some guys like that could be a good man.
He said, you told me as my daughter, you didn't want that.

So even as a father who is doing the same thing, if I have to put myself in a bad light for you to have what's right,

then

so be it. That is what parenting is about, Shannon.
Parenting is about I remove myself from this for the betterment of you. That is what love is.

Not if I tell you, Shannon, don't get a woman who's of age like me, who's a doctor, who don't want a man with kids. Don't, you know, don't get a woman like me.

I don't want to tell you that because if I tell you that, then what? It makes me look bad.

No, if I love you, that means I use anything I have to help you get in a better position and do what's best for you. That's what parenting is about.
It's funny that you say that.

Why can women have choices, but men can't? Women can say, I don't want a man to have kids. I want this.
I want that.

I want a man to make six, seven figures. I want him to be educated.
I want him to be God-fearing. I want him to be able to be world travel.

But a man can't say, well, I want a woman that's five foot seven. I want a woman that has long natural hair.
I want her to be of this complexion. I want her to be shaped like this.

Why can't men say what we want, but women can say what we want? Let's add one more thing because I feel like we're deflecting from one more thing. Okay.
We want her to be this race.

We want her to be this type. Let's keep it real.
We're not going to deflect from nothing. What thing? There's men who, there's black men who only date non-black women.
Okay.

We don't have to say white women. Just say non-black.
Because there is black men who only date Latino women, but not white women. There are white men who only have a thing for black women.

There's nothing wrong with a preference. I don't think a man saying,

I am only attracted to, or I have only been attracted to this type of woman means that he doesn't love or respect these other kind of women.

Now, on the flip side, a man who says, I am turned off and do not like black women. So I date.
non-black women. He has mommy issues.

He has an identity crisis because you came from the woman you're you're saying you dislike. So now we have a deeper-rooted issue.

I'm not saying that a brother who only dates outside a black woman cannot also have mommy issues.

But if that's just his preference, then that's different than saying I don't date because my experience was bad. I don't date because I don't like the way black women show up.

I don't date because I don't like the way black women are strong or they talk too much. And I'm not saying those things ain't true for a lot of us.
Okay.

But what I'm saying is everyone has a right to have their preference. But I do believe that people need to look deep down and say, why is that your preference? Take inventory on that.

I know my preference of a man with no kids is because growing up as a little girl, I had to share my father with six other siblings. You want undivided attention.

And I'm not sharing another finger man in my life.

And I'm also not going to put my children in a position to have to share their father with anybody else at all. And I'm going to go even deeper.

When When my father passed away, which I'm happy my dad did, it's so perfect, right? His life insurance went split up amongst his babies. Now, I love that because I love my babies.

I'm the oldest of seven. Those are all my babies, okay? And if he would have gave it all to me, I would have split it with everybody anyway.

But I'm happy he did it on his own.

But my point in saying that is when A man or woman gets with somebody who has other offsprings and kids, you have to not only think about the relationship presently, but also in the exit strategy.

So my kids do have to split things. My kids are being born into a deficit because guess what? You won't be able to be present every day with my child if you are going to be a father to those children.

And when Christmas comes or holidays come or school comes or God forbid something happens to your other children, like an emergency. What if our kids have an emergency at the same time?

Who do you choose? What happens? Do I show up as a single mother in that moment? Because dad has to be here. How do I explain that to our babies? And why do I have to?

And I won't have to if I choose a man who I know can be present.

Because being present is being in my house, in our house, in our children's home, taking them to school, waking up in the morning, them seeing you with the good morning, our son being able to watch how you process your emotions as a man.

Watch how you interact with me as a man. Watch how you sit with your legs like that.
Watch how when the game is on, you sit and watch it in a certain statue.

Watch how you yell at the TV the way you do what you do i yell at the tv when i watch football and i am a football head because my grandfather my father were football men so we would sit and watch football non-stop i'm calling pick six all day i mean i am i'm calling flag on the plate pi come on ref that's me right other women don't watch it like that correct because how did i learn it by watching the men in my house by being the only girl for so long kids are very observant so my thing is and i'll wrap on this is it's not that people with kids multiple folks are doomed,

it's a different way that they have to parent. And whether you parent perfectly, not perfectly, but you parent at your best or not, those kids are still going to be in a deficit.

And I want to say this part too: because

a present parent can also present trauma. So, I don't want to make it seem like because if you're in the household, you're not presenting trauma.
Because it's also sometimes

a parent or a couple that decides not being together will create a more peaceful, healthy environment for the kids and us is the better decision.

So, I'm not condoning or advocating for people to stay together in trauma-not dysfunctional, abusive relationships, where they're creating now not just a broken home, but a broken family because of the two different things, right?

I'm saying you got to do what's best.

But if you make decisions at the very beginning that are good, then you are able to date better, marry better, parent better, and you do get kids, even if they choose to detour off, like the Bible says, who have the tools to be better.

And that's all that I'm pushing for our community. I'm not pushing that people who are baby mamas or baby daddies to beat themselves up and say they're doomed.
That's not what it is.

But what I am saying, damn it, is now today, make a better decision.

Do something different. Show your kids that there's a different way to do it.
And, you know, let's teach folks to get out there and figure out the sense of self. So our divorce rate isn't so high.

And let's figure out, Shannon, how we can do more than just make good love and have a drink together. Like, how come we can't have better conversations together?

We don't have to be romantic to have good, intellectual, emotionally, intelligent conversations. We don't have to have gender wars because we don't agree on a topic.

You believe men and you believe men and women can have a friendship. Steve Harvey said he ain't got no women friend.
And he shouldn't. But you're married.
So a man, so like me, you and I married.

Don't get me on this conversation.

I'm just saying. So you believe men and women can have a true platonic, hey, hey, let's meet here.
Let's go get a drink. Let's go get a bite to eat.
And it stays that.

Because a lot of people is like, oh, he's just waiting for his opportunity.

He's just waiting for you at a moment of weakness and something went wrong with in your other relationship and he got that big shoulder for you to cry on and next thing you know voila

I had a best friend of 24 years. He was there through both engagements.
He was going to be on both weddings.

And as soon as that second engagement was off, he said, Have you found someone new?

I do it. I do it.
Hold on, Shannon. I said, No, we were friends since we were 14.
I said, No, I haven't. He said, Well,

why don't we try it? I said, I know you too well. Listen to this.
So I could never be in a relationship with you. He had no kids.
He does well.

Attorney. All those things.
I had no kids. That's you.
Well, that's you. That's you.

That's me. That was me.
That was me. The man behind the crazy site.
Right here in front of him. Right here.
Right here.

Okay, so I said, we can probably be homie lover friends and be intimate because I've known you for so long. So I feel very safe with being intimate with you.

And he says, if I can't have you in every way and marry you, I won't touch your body. So I said, okay, well, let's try this dating thing.
We tried the dating thing. Exactly what I told him was right.

Sex was

fire.

Absolutely amazing. Absolutely amazing.

The relationship,

what was wrong? Everything that he did in

all of his previous relationships, he started to do in ours. He brought it back.
Because people are who they are. This is another thing.
People don't change. We shift.

We learn how to manage the things in us that we don't like or that we learn don't serve us. So if lying never served nobody, that person is still a liar who has to manage the behavior of not lying.

No different than an addict.

A person who was addicted to porn is managing, no longer looking at porn. Management could look like this.
They won't go in the environment of maybe a strip club.

They will not go in an environment where there's a porn on television.

Same thing for alcoholics, right? They try their best to not go around it as much as possible. There's a lot, a lot of

willpower that that takes, a lot of managing. You don't wake up in the next day or go through six months or a year of therapy, Shannon, and you are no longer built the way you are biologically.

You no longer think think the way you think. You no longer have the appetite that you used to have.
Do we grow out of some things naturally? Yes.

But evolving and growing out of something is very different than saying, now that I'm with you, I want to stop smoking cigarettes. Now that I'm with you, I no longer want to watch porn.

You're managing yourself. So it's only a matter of time before who you don't like about me shows up in this relationship.
So I always ask people this.

Instead of finding people that you have to change for or that you want to change for you, find somebody who's conducive to the shit you got going on.

Meaning, if you are in your dysfunctional era, I'm serious, you find someone who your dysfunction does not create dysfunction in them.

Your dysfunction may be something that they need and they can feed in a healthy way because that happens often.

For example, people who have anxious attachment, those are the people who are just always want to be up under you, want to call you, want to attach you, want to do that, right? What you doing?

Not talking to you right now. Watch this.
Now, I'm an abandoned little girl who's grown up to be an abandoned woman. I have worked through a lot of my stuff,

but that axious attachment person would drive somebody who is in avoidant or even secure attachment crazy. That is system overload way too much for them.
Me,

I love me a clingy man. So, if my man, hold on, I'm not saying he's sitting at home not doing nothing, playing video games.

I'm saying he's traveling, he's doing his work, he's doing his thing, but maybe in between work, in between sessions, in between lunch, he wants to FaceTime me or text me or baby. I miss you.

And when he's done with work, he wants to get right back home to mama. I love me a man like that.
Or he wants to fly me out right. Oh, hell yes.

So you, you, you, you, you, uh, you got a therapist session. You talk, you told Mr.
Johnson. So how is it that Mrs.
Johnson feels that you're not meeting so forth and so on?

And then you get out of that session, you got like

five text messages, three missed calls. Okay, so see, see, now you're going obsessive.
I didn't say that the person will crash out.

That's different. That's somebody who's having an anxiety attack because you're not available.
That's more of codependency. Okay.

I'm saying somebody who has an attachment style where they love being plugged into their partner.

They want to plug, they want to see, you want to see your woman's face before me and you do this interview. Right.
So when I walked in, you might have been saying, okay, baby, hey, Dr.

Brian, just walked in. I'll call you right back.
And then you hang up and I'm like, hey, Shannon. Yes.
That is what's healthy for me. Okay.
But for many other people,

that attachment style may not work for them they may say i'm too needy or that person's too needy yeah so what i try to teach people is stop finding someone who is avoidant right and i want someone who's gonna be attached and now i'm telling you all day shannon like you don't call me enough right like are you not into me You know, you're not slapping my ass every time I walk by.

You know, it's like you need your space downstairs in the man cave for an hour when you get home to debrief. But to me, that makes me feel a little detached from you, right?

Versus finding a man who says, shit, you are my man Kay. I can't, daddy can't wait.
Come on down here. Let's watch this game.
Come on, baby. Now we're talking.

And while you at it, mama, bring that, bring that good shade. That good shade, dark.
Bring that good shade dark. You know what I'm saying?

That's what I mean by us finding what's conducive to us, not finding the person who needs us to change and be something else, because that's also a deeper-rooted issue.

If I'm always attracting and choosing people who want me to change, that is an identity crisis issue. That is a lack of self-love.
Something in me doesn't like myself.

So I'm calibrating you who is pointing out for me what I don't like that I need to change. And I'm making you my motivating factor to change.

When if I don't like that about myself, shouldn't that be an inside job? Right. Shouldn't I sit with me first and say, these are the things I don't like about me.

Let me lose the weight. Let me have better self-care.
Let me tailor down on my smart mouth. Whatever it is I feel I need to do.
Why do I need to choose you?

to tell me I need to change and me be motivated by you. That's codependency.
That's unhealthy.

So people, listen, get a sense of self and then find somebody who's conducive to who you are. Because no one's ever going to be perfect.
We're all going to be broken when we meet whoever we meet.

And there's no such thing as a fully healed person. So all this wait till you're heal to find somebody you're going to be waiting forever.
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What happens is while you are trying to isolate to heal, you are also unlearning how to socialize. You are also dediting your chemistry muscle.

So when you go back out the house six months, five years, however long y'all trying to isolate, then you're going, I'm socially awkward. How come I can't connect with people?

How come there's no chemistry with anybody? Well, you ain't used it. So you lost it.
It hadn't been updated. There you go.
So it's about having healthy. distractions.

I'm going to heal for two hours a day and meditate and take self-inventory and do my therapy. But then Monday, Wednesday, Friday at seven o'clock, I have to get out and socialize.

I have to get out and meet people who are celebrating me. I have to get out and create a circle of wealth who are pouring into me.

So I have a balance of healing and also a norm that's going to allow me to be me and be around people and socialize and meet someone who I can possibly be conducive with, who I don't have to look forward to being my motivator to change and be a better me.

Being better comes from the inside. A woman will never make a man a better man.
Y'all gonna change when you want to. As you see, in my father's words, a nigga is going to be a nigga.

A womanizer is going to be a womanizer. A A woman will become a product of your environment.
Offset and Cardi B is a perfect example. Cardi B came into it.
She had no kids. She was in her career.

She's going diamond and platinum with her records. No kids.
Offset had how many? By how many? I think you had a couple. So who became a product of whose environment?

Cardi now has two by two.

My theory. Proven.
Right. Again.
She has two by two.

So she's a product of his environment.

I'm just saying what it is because a man who's going to marry is a man who's going to what? Marry. He's looking for marriage.
But a man who's just looking for ass is what? He's looking for ass.

It don't matter if he runs into Dr. Bryant.

People in general, especially women, have to be, stop being so arrogant to think that anything we got, from a face to a walk to a dwalk to anything, can take a man and make him what he's not.

We ain't build him. We ain't never made y'all.
We will never change y'all.

Only thing we can do is choose y'all and say if this man never changes this right here i will love everything about this man exactly how he is but we don't do that i do now but most women don't we go i like 25 35

i think i think that's that's 65 once he meets me makes love to me and see i can cook and i can clean and i can do these other things and my knees is good and i do cook yeah and the man cleans

i'll cook it for you but i but i don't eat red meat, but I'll cook it. I'll cook it for my man, but I'll eat red meat.
But dang, you bore all that? All that. Mac and cheese, but bait.
Guess what?

That ain't gonna change who you are. That's not gonna change the type of man you are.
I don't even want to go out no more. Lose my number, homeboy.
Don't ever call me again. I'm happy here.

There you go. Let me ask you this, because

it seemed like in today's time. Dog, when I was coming up and was like...
Hey, this is so good.

I don't even drink. This is so good.
Thank you.

Shoot, I'm about to come up with a Shea,

a Dr. B something.
This is good.

When I was coming up, it was

like

the ladies wanted you to call them. And you just couldn't call.
Like now, if you talk to the person once a week, they cool. If you...

Who's they?

Okay, the mother ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Don't call me once a week. Call me all.
Listen, I said, love me. At least once a week.
Love me like this.

Do not love me like that.

Literally and figuratively. Love me like this.

You got to love me up close. Doc on demon time.

Demon time.

See, you shut this down.

Love me up close.

But I want you to finish your question because

healthy.

people

know how to love. Okay.

Healthy people don't have to love you at a a distance. Okay.

Because a distance means that I'm putting barriers in front of them. Yes.
Yes. So if I am not afraid of love, then why am I not loving all the way like this? Why am I not loving like this?

Why am I not loving like this? Why is it that I'm putting stipulations or barriers or limitations on how I love you? I was made from love. My parents loved the shit out of me.

My mom still treats me like I'm four. My dad still opened my door at the age of 38 when he would take me to dinner.

So I am a love bug. So I don't need you to love me from a distance because you are starving me of the love that we could both be having if you didn't have issues with love.

Because when you think of love, Shannon, you think of love as limitations? No, it's limitless.

So then why is there a number amount on how many calls or texts I can give or get from you a day?

Why is it that, you know, too much time is too much time to be spent if we really love and like each other? Right. How come I can't just miss you while I'm in your presence?

How come I can't just had made love to you, laid up under you, and want to lean over and still smell you again?

What is wrong with that? Nothing. How come I can't make love to you, been with you for four days straight, we'd have made love four or five times already, and then say, daddy, I miss you.
Really?

That's not obsessive. That's healthy love.

That happened in today's time? That's how I love shit. It's healthy love.

And that's why I can't just be giving my love into anybody because not because

you have that kind of personality.

There's people who are pints. Okay.
Gallons have to be careful of pints, and pints have to be careful. No one's better.
It's just different bandwidth. Right.
My love is this.

So if a pint pours everything they have into me, how much is left? Oh, you still got room. If I pour everything into them, system overload.
They cannot facilitate me.

This is why I said we have to find conduciveness, we have to find people who are what

bandwidth, capacity-driven. We got to stop looking at this dude got a contract for a hundred million dollars so that contract could pay these bills.

But then, after you get these kids and you see that the trainer that you've been training with, who possibly can't pay all the bills, has a bandwidth.

I'm not saying be with the trainer, what I'm saying is you got to find the in-between where it's conducive for you.

Okay, because people are too driven in things that don't sustain them, and then they end up making decisions that have them doing time because they didn't take their time. That's a problem.

Is it in the relationship now, do we have two unrealistic expectations?

Because I think the thing is that, and what I've like, I'm a firm believer, and the lady told me, say, Shannon, you're never going to find someone that has everything.

You're not going to find someone that can cook, that has a job, to do your X, Y, and Z. Because Shannon, if she has a job, how do you expect her to be at your beck and call?

And then you're going to get tired. If she's at your beck and call all the time, you're going to get tired of her being at your beck and call.
So you're not going to find someone that has everything.

Just find someone that has enough of the qualities that you want that a few of the ones that she don't, you can survive. Perfect.
And I say this. What are your non-negotiables? Right?

My non-negotiables is a man with children.

That's pretty much it. Yeah.
Right? I mean, of course, we can't be abusive. Those are the common sense things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Common sense, okay? No kids. Right.
So as long as he has no kids, I go down the list. He's kind.
He's He's loving. You know, he has that attachment style I like.

He wants to get his suitcase and live up in me. I love it.
You know, that type of thing. And he loves on me.
He's faithful. I like transparency.
I don't like honesty. So he's transparent.

And so what people need to do is say. Transparency is telling you is something that you need to ask it.
It's forthcoming. Honesty is

I ask a question and then you answer me.

Forthcoming is, babe, let me tell you what happened to me today.

Baby, I was driving home and got an email from my ex and I ain't talked to her in 10 years.

Really, babe? Yes. And the email said, boom, boom, she's in town.
She wanted to go to lunch. I said, what'd you say, babe? I told her I'm married.
That she didn't see that on social media.

I got a wife. Or I didn't respond at all, baby.
Okay. And guess what? We resume our day.
Okay. Because the fact that you're transparent, you are now depositing into our trust bank.

But when I have to ask you, babe, and say you didn't respond to the email at all and you did everything right.

But I happened to run through and I say, baby, you didn't tell me me such and such emailed you. And you go, oh, babe, you know, I won't even think about it.
I ain't even pay that no money.

But let's say you did everything right. You really didn't pay it no more.

Now it's not about you doing anything right. It's about what? Why didn't you tell me?

Most people say that. Now you are starting a little bit of cracks and crevices in our trust foundation when you ain't did nothing wrong.

So now, of course, I'm not going to leave you for that, but now we got to work through me trying to say, baby, next time, could you tell me?

But when you can just be forthcoming, if you know you have nothing going on, transparency is the way to build the best trust. It's baby, look, this is what this is what it is.
And let me go,

it's gonna be a very unapologetic opinion, but for my players out there,

for the men who are trying to play, for the woman who's trying to go dig,

even as a player who got a little bit of game,

transparency would be what you want to do.

Because when you tell a woman

everything that's really going on,

she trusts you. Hold on, Trust creates what? Security.
Right. What do women want? Security.

And you give her an opportunity to make a choice. Because if you deny her that.

So how many women are dealing with a married man who they know is married?

And that married man has no problem with the side chick because she knows. And in her rabid-ass mind, she says,

What? Say it. Eventually he gonna leave her and be with me.
And guess what? He a good man, Savannah, because he's honest with me. He told me he was married.
I could trust him.

But see, Savannah's man was married in that movie, too.

That's the problem.

And the wife don't know about you. And even if she does, he's a womanizer.
So a womanizer is going to do what? Womanize. Right.

So when a person shows you who they are, my dad used to always say, believe them. Don't wrap them with your fairy tale ideology of what you want them to be.

and then gaslight them when you see that's not who they are.

So transparency is the foundation whether you are trying to move in a good character, which I condone good character, or even if you're not. It's about the transparency piece.

We all want to know that whether I like you or not, Shannon, I can trust you. I'll hire you if I could trust you.
Yes.

But I'm not going to hire this snake who does a better job than you, but I can't trust them. It's transparency.
Do we have two unrealistic expectations of what a relationship should be?

You mean on the man and woman's perspective? I think so. I think the perfection thing is one, definitely.
And I think that's both, men and women.

I think men want this perfect woman who does all those things you named in today's society. What woman is not working?

I mean, you do have some women that require, I was a kept woman, but to your point, I cooked. I cleaned.
He had in-house. I never denied him.
All I did was work out and run.

I'm the president of NAACP here in Los Angeles, and I ran that and ran my foundation. But I didn't work.
He didn't want me to work.

But I also was a woman who was okay with not working and just fully submitting to him. I was okay in that position.

Would you be okay not in that position?

So

I believe that I would be okay in that position.

If my husband said, baby, you know,

once you have our kids, I want you home with them. And I don't really want you actively traveling the way you do for your career.

And he was open to me still creating and producing all the shows that I produce where I don't have to be so hands-on, right? Having my Dr.

Bryant Institute, which I have therapists that work for me that see clients.

If he understood that what I built, which is bigger than me, it's about healing our community, is something I can still have and allow it to operate and heal folks, yes.

But if he said, you got to shut up, shut down all shop, when I would say, well, does it make sense? Because this contributes to our economic household and it contributes to our legacy.

And these are things that I can leave behind to our children and also that you as my husband will fully benefit from because this is not mine. I built this and it's ours.

And so let's take it and build it together. And I don't mind hiring

an office manager, a second assistant, another CEO. I could hire four or five more people.
But I want to make sure what I built. can sustain

but but but what i will say is i am 100 open to um dialing down and being more available and convenient and accessible to him. Absolutely.
Because I've done it before and I love that position, yes.

You mentioned the shows that you produce. You co-produce MTV Team, Mom, Family Reunion.

You're going to Basketball Wives. What is it about, I remember I had a conversation with a guy.
This had to be Dr. Bryant probably in 2000.

And this was the time, kind of like MTV, the real world, was just starting to come on, Survivor. And he said that.
He said, that is television moving forward.

I said, what do you mean? He said, reality television is going to be the wave. He said, I said, why? He said, because it's cheap.

He said, instead of paying somebody $100,000, $200,000, $300,000 an episode, and you shoot 20, 25 episodes, you can pay somebody 5,000 because everybody wants that 15 minutes.

And everybody feels they'll be able to take that 15 minutes and transition into something bigger. And lo and behold.

But I think reality television has done a disservice too somewhat because it got people, but it got people thinking like, come on, bro

it's not like that it's not like that yeah and people can't transit many most people cannot transition out of reality tv to anything else because they've exposed the parts of them that most people don't want to hire or don't want to represent them company their company so um for me uh you know with teen mom family reunion Going on that show, I developed it and I co-produced it.

I was an on-camera life coach. Right.
So my reality was my real life position. So I loved it.
I was in purpose.

I love those teen moms and dads and families that were on there. We built great relationships and I was able to really, really transition their lives.
It was, it was beautiful.

And for people to see it on TV, basketball wise, I also went on there as the psychology expert.

And it just took a different toll because those group of women were not in a position of wanting healing, which I believe the network knew that. And

it's business. I get it's entertainment.

They were more in the position of saying, well, this is our norm. What we've been doing with reality TV, we turn it up, right?

So at some point, I understood that that wasn't the show for me because I wouldn't be able to use my expertise on that show. I would have to use, you know, check a bitch on that show.

It's just the truth. And so I said, let me just remove myself before I ruin myself and somebody on this show.
But reality TV, I think it. was good for its era.

You know, I think that it still plays a role in entertainment.

but a lot of people are stuck in that. And so what they're doing is they got to create certain timelines to stay on it.
Right.

And I feel like their life at the beginning is the real life. And then after they're on there for so many years, the question is how much of it is real now?

Because now you have to create sustainability for you to have a story. Right.
But a lot of my friends are on reality TV.

And, you know, so for the sake of them, I hope it stays and they keep getting their bag and they keep doing their thing.

But for me, if I'm producing producing it, you know, I wouldn't mind doing it. If it's a show where I can provide healing, like Iana Van Zant fixed my life, that's reality that I love.
Right.

You know? So shout out to her. That's that's my first coach and still someone who I go to for wise counsel.

But shows like that I think are good. But I also think some people Shannon want to be entertained.
I don't think we have a right to tell somebody

what they need to watch to be entertained. People love it.
They do. They do.
You know, and for some folks like myself who don't have drama in my real life, thank God, I don't watch it.

Why do we like drama, though?

Why why do we like the car crash why do we like

why do we why what what is our obsession with seeing someone else crash out or seeing someone misbehave what when do we have we always been this voyeuristic well it's relatable to some people it also validates that they are not alone in their crash out perfect example

before tubi became tubi yeah now when to be was hood movies yeah

I don't watch movies, but when I did watch a movie, it was Me and Society, Boys in the Hood, or a Good Hood, Tooby Hood movie. Why do you think I like that? It was home for me.
Right.

It was childhood for me. I related to that.
I grew up in that. I didn't want to recreate that.
But every time I watch it, I'd be like a little kid in bed in my pajamas, right?

Eating, having my drink, my wine. And I'm just loving watching this gangster type of love story that I was a product of at one point.

And so people watch what they relate to. Remember that.
And we live in a world, especially within our community, where you do have the broken homes, you do have the dysfunction.

But I do want to give us our props real quick because

there are so many people in general, but especially black folks, who are understanding that faith without works is dead, who have the faith and the principles.

You know, most of us grew up in a church home. We black, we know God, we know principles, we know the Bible, but they're coming to therapy.

They're making therapy a lifestyle. They're understanding that mental health is real, that mental health will make or it has been breaking us.

And so I want to give our community the props of saying that, you know, listen, super proud of us for showing up and making mental health a conversation and making therapy a conversation on many podcasts, on many talk shows.

80% of my clients are celebrities, are athletes, NFL players, baseball players, and a good 90-ish are black. And

black men at the highest rate of any of my clients, especially my A-listeners and my athletes, have experienced suicide attempt or suicide ideation and never told anyone.

And they're just blessed and happy that they didn't act on it or follow through. That wasn't always the case.
It was not always the case.

We grew up, I'm old enough and grew up in an environment where you weren't allowed to cry if you're a man because that was a sign of weakness.

When did you think this shift happened where black men were comfortable coming to sit down and talk to a Dr. Bryant or they were willing to go seek counseling? Well, this is what I'm thinking.

This is what I'm feeling. I'm not okay.

And

I'm big enough. I'm mad enough.

I love that.

I'm not prideful enough to say, dog, I need to talk to somebody because I got these thoughts going on inside and I don't know how much longer I can abide them.

So

as much as most people hate social media,

I believe that that is one of the positive impacts social media has had is folks being able to see other folks that look like them.

Black men being able to see other black men, black boys seeing black men on social media that look like them expressing themselves,

having mental health breakdowns on social media, showing the results of therapy, the results of not getting therapy. We've had black folks on social media commit suicide.
We've had clips of that.

I think social media

The power and the positive power that it does have is the witnessing of other people having the same crash out or mental health crisis as we as a viewer are having and normalizing it for us so we don't feel alone and then seeing what they did to cure it or to help it and saying you know what i want that help too right i think when you don't have

the vision of what is possible for you like the bible said we perish we perish right it's the bible says it says people without a vision do what perish and it says hope deferred does what makes the heart sick so when you lose hope we have a sick heart, which makes what?

Sick people, whether it's physically or mentally.

But one thing you said that I love is you said them coming to session and being like, okay, doc, you know, I'm broken or I have these thoughts and I feel this way.

Y'all don't come to session like that, by the way. It takes a while to get away.
Y'all work my ass, okay? And don't be like that.

Especially black men, you come in session, and I love this about y'all. Listen, I have a soft spark for my black.
I love y'all. Boy, y'all come to session.
I don't even really want to be here.

I don't even know why I'm here, but I'm here.

My wife made the appointment or y'all sit in session and I love this part. You're waiting for me to create a safe space.
Why do I love that?

Because

I am not

entitled to hear your issues just because I have a title. You should make me work to create a safe space for you so that you know you can trust me.

However, you should do that as well in your relationships before you're putting your penis in a woman. You should make sure that that body,

that space,

that body and that space is safe

so that your trauma and your issues wouldn't become buried in your codependency on

and sex.

And you would be able to gain a sense of self and not a sense of your codependency, where all it does is trigger and inflame your traumas and your existing self-hate and issues.

And then we would have better men, not for women, but for they self. And the suicide rate is the highest in black men.
Really? Do you know what the root of suicide is? It's self-hate.

It's identity crisis. You have to hate yourself so much and the identity that you tell yourself you have to want to kill the biggest part of you.

That is an identity crisis. But then you don't realize, okay, I'm hurting so bad.
And if I do this, I'm no longer hurting.

But you miss the most important part: the people that you leave behind that got to hurt forever. Because now they question,

where did we go wrong? What did we do wrong? What did we, what signs did we miss? And you know what's funny?

The people that you want them to think about that's gonna hurt the most when they gone are the people that got them in the pain that hurts them the most. Wow.

So you think they give a care about leaving you? Let me tell you something. I've had a boy sit on my phone and tell me that

he was going to kill himself in the kitchen.

Time it so perfectly so that his father could walk in and see him

because he wanted his father to feel the pain that he projected onto him

that he was not aware of. You think that little boy cared about his father being in pain for the rest of his life when the whole intention was

killing myself

is the measurement of the pain that you have projected onto me. That you ain't want you to kill the pain.
You ain't said nothing about it. You going about your daily life

dating, working, doing whatever you're doing. And I am bleeding to death in front of you.
In front of you.

I had to sit on the phone with that boy. for hours and hours.
He's now doing well. Suicidations are gone.
Him Him and his father have the most amazing relationship.

And his father always says, I am forever, ever indebted to you. I'm like, no, you're not.
Right. But I said that to say

that's not how a person who is in excruciating pain to the point where they want to kill themselves is at. They don't think like it.
They're not thinking like that.

But also, it's an accountability piece to the people who are around them.

It's not good enough, Shannon, for me to ask you, baby, you okay?

Let me tell you something. I have two brothers, both younger.
if I ask our baby brother his name is Shane he's a baby of all of us

if I call his phone forget if I call his phone and he don't answer too many times you can ask my best friend and assistant who's in here Shannon I'll pull up and lay on that lay on that horn knock on that door come in the house because bro what is up what is going on

And there has been times where that was needed. And he didn't want to say what was going on.

He was raised to be that man that you said.

That if a bill is short, he's not going to ask. If he's feeling some type of way, he's not going to speak.

But when he walks in the house, I can tell when his mood's off because I pay enough attention to that boy because I love him.

And as folks who love our folks, we have to pay more attention than just, Shannon said he was good. We caught up in our own self.
We ain't got time to be thinking about all that.

But if I noticed you weren't good,

that's the only reason why I asked you. Right.
And you said you was. Why did I take that as okay? Why didn't I say no, you're not? No, because you asked that question for a reason,

or you got some people who ask it for the okay,

which is an egocentric approach, just to say well, I asked him, and he said it was okay. I done my part.
So, ask me when you really care. Don't ask me how I'm doing if you really don't care.

Because if I'm not doing well and I told you I wasn't, and all you was asking to say you did your part, how was you going to provide resources?

How were you going to be someone who can help me with this impairment? So what I want to say honestly to everyone within our community, this is just real. The whole, what's up, dog, you good?

Needs to be a real, but are you good?

Well, I ask you that because I know you're not.

So what's up? And I need to be pressing you like I press you when I want to go have a drink, like I press you when I want to go hang out. Like I press you when I want to turn up.

Like I press you when I want to be outside.

Like I press you when I want to watch the game.

I should be pressing you when I know something's not right with you because that's what real friendship is that is what real love is and i don't care if you get mad i'm in your business and i want to know why especially with black men yes especially with black men we need to because y'all will get fussy and get emotionally uncomfortable and why you bugging me while you want to talk about because i'm in because i'm bugging you and until we talk or you tell me something I'm not going away because I love you.

I've had to tell clients who've been mad at me in session, listen,

I'm doing my job. You can't get rid of me.
So you can get as mad as you want. I'm not going nowhere.
Do you know how that shifted the whole trajectory in that man's whole attitude?

When I said, well, I'm not going nowhere. So you can get mad.
We still got 30 minutes. I'm not going nowhere.
Wow. And I'll be here next week, too.
I'm not going nowhere.

I've had men break down and just cry by me saying, I'm not going nowhere. So we can unpack this and we can do this tug of war.
Right.

But I'm in here paying with you. What about this situation?

And I think, and I've heard this, and this happens a lot, is that sometimes when we reveal our deepest, innermost thoughts to our partner, they turn around and flip it when they get mad and throw it up in our face.

Yeah, that happens also. So now I don't feel this is a safe space.
So I've got to go to someone that doesn't have a dog in a fight.

I know they're not going to throw this up in my face because they're like, well, you know, you can talk to me about anything, but I can't.

Because the moment you get mad at me, you're going to throw this up in my face and say, see, your grandma didn't do this or your mama didn't do that. You got blah, blah, blah.

And I mean, really try to hear that. But why are you the only one going to someone to talk?

Why are they not going to someone so that they can learn the proper tools to facilitate a healthy relationship? Y'all both need to be in someone's office. Well, they're perfect, so but anyway.

But but but

but that's a bit of narcissism is what you're describing. Because if I'm perfect, but you don't have a safe space with me and I throw everything you say back in your face because that's just ego.

If I'm throwing something back in your face, I'm intentionally trying to hurt you.

And that's also a competitive nature. Because anytime I'm trying to chip away at you, it's so I could feel more superior to you.
That's a narcissistic behavior. So what are we doing here?

Now, again, I said narcissistic behavior. So you can have traits and not be diagnosed.
You can have the behavior and not be diagnosed. Okay, y'all.
So yes, but we have to be aware of that. And

I think

as women in general, especially black women, we do got to do a better job of holding space for y'all. We do got to do a better job of having a safe space for y'all.

And when we do get upset, knowing how to have,

knowing how to have a fair fight, I can easily say you ain't shit for not telling me about that email.

But do I have to say that's why your mama left you? Exactly. Because you probably was a lying ass when you was a teenager too?

That's why she abandoned you?

Because she didn't want to be around you either. Like, so those are things that we have to be aware of because that's venom.
Yes. And if I'm spitting venom at you, that means venom is where? In me.

Yeah. So now my trauma has just entered into the relationship.
Not the woman you probably chose, which was the healthy me that showed up. My representative, which is still me, was a healthy me.

I didn't tell you you was a nothing ass dude when we first started dating.

But now that you have entered into my vulnerability, which encompasses all of who I am, you are getting who? All of who I am. So you're not just getting the baby, talk to me, are you okay?

Well, are you hungry? Well, what happened? Oh, that's okay. Just next time the email comes to you, just tell me.
Can you commit to that? Yeah, okay, baby. We good.

Now you're getting the trigger little girl in me who's abandoned.

So now she's the one that's having an argument with you.

And she is going to de-emascalate you. She is going to dismantle you.
Why? Because she was dismantled as a little little girl.

And misery and healthy both love company. So when I'm in my healthy, I'm going to pull you in.
But when I'm in my dysfunction, I'm going to pull you in.

So this is why I say you have to have people who are hybrids, high-functioning and low-functioning. We have to both be both.
Because when I'm in my low-functioning, what do I need you to be in?

You're high functioning.

I need you to say, baby, That's that little girl in you who's broken. And I know you don't mean what you're saying.
And I love love you. And I'm going to have grace for you right now.

But I'm going to ask you not to talk to me like that because you're crossing my boundary. And I'm working very hard to make sure the little boy and me don't get in the ring with her.
Right.

Because then we're going to trauma bond. And I don't know if we can come back from them blows.
Yes.

You have to stay in that position. And then when you go low, I have to be able to be aware of my man and say,

he's in that space. Because normally, dog, when they go low, I go to hell.

I bypass the basement.

Both of us.

It is. Because let me tell you, I bypassed the basement, though.
And then I remind, this is how bad I get. I say, yeah, Shai, because God said, if you make your bed in hell, he's there.

I said, well, then, God,

we're going. Yeah.
We're going. Yeah.
Yeah. We got to work on that.
Yeah.

I'm getting better, dog. I'm getting much better.
I ain't got to fight even like I used to have. I'm getting older now, dog.
I'm getting wiser.

The problem is, I still got the fight and the grit and the strategy. So I'm managing all that.

Is there a difference between a therapist and a life coach? There is.

So I started off as a marriage, family, and child therapist, right?

Where I was working for a nonprofit under a license and diagnosing and doing progress notes and billing insurance and dealing with court-ordered families from DCFS, the Department of Child and Family Services.

And so that was

where a therapist diagnosed, we do progress notes, we bill insurance. A life coach is somebody who

still provides resources and tools, right? Similar to a therapist, but we don't diagnose, we do not bill insurance, and we obviously don't need progress notes. Two totally different things.

Also, a life coach isn't treating clients. A life coach is seeing clients.

As a therapist, I was treating clients, right?

Not just seeing them.

My modality is a hybrid modality because I started off as a therapist and my approach was cognitive behavioral therapy and psychodynamic.

And because that's my foundation, I use a lot of those tools still in my life coaching. And to blend it all together, they're both needed.

And that's why my hybrid approach is the most effective because therapy is like, tell me more to talk about your childhood wounds. And

these are why you do what you do. This is why you think the way you think, right? Your three-part house is how you think, how you feel and how you behave.

This is why your three-part house is disaligned.

Then we get you aligned. Coaching says, all right, Shannon, now that we got you somewhat together, where do you want to go with this? Who Who do you want to be?

You see, coaching, if the person doesn't have a therapeutic background like me, doesn't know how to penetrate the trauma, right?

And therapists are not coaches, they're just trying to help you process through your stuff, but they're not going to get you to where you want to be.

When you take both of them, which is me, the hybrid, I'm going, we're going to talk about the stuff

and then we're going to get you to where you want to be. So your stuff does not come in and sabotage you once you get there.
Because one without the other really is a deficit to the client.

It just really is. Yeah.
Did you get this kind of victory all before you came, before you became viral and you became an internet sensation?

Did people dislike you then as much as they do seem to dislike you now? Because every time I turn around, somebody got something smuggled to say about you. Well, you know what I say about that.

What you say about that though? Because, you know, the internet lit your ass up too many times.

You see, I ain't even on the internet no more.

You ducking. Shannon said.

Y'all don't want Shannon to go to hell, so leave him alone.

You just leave him alone. I always say this, when everybody likes you, you're on your way.
When they start to hate you, you made it.

That's how I put it. But to answer your question, people have always loved me, but not always loved the truth that I speak.

I've always been a truth speaker before I was even in my field. And I just learned now that I don't give the truth outside of sessions, stage, interviews, or my speaking events.

If my friends don't ask, I don't give.

It works better for the friendship and it saves me the headache.

But I've always been a person who rocks the boat. I'm here to interrupt, you know, generational pathologies.
I'm here to interrupt dysfunctional pathologies.

And as a disruptor, people are going to have an issue. And usually the hit dog is what barks.

And so

I'm used to that and I'm okay with it. And my intent is to hit the dogs that need to bark.
And so as long as they bark, and I'm doing my job.

And I always say, you know, my sheep will know my voice, even the wolf who's in sheep clothing, because that wolf is where in my herd.

And so either way, my thing, as long as you get something and you do something with it, then I've done my job because I'm obedient to who, God, not people.

China passed a law that said influencers need to hold a degree in the topics in which they discuss to reduce misinformation. Do you think as American, America should adopt that policy?

I don't personally. I don't, because I think sometimes experience is the best teacher.
I agree. I don't think anyone should need a degree of accolade or credential to give any type of expertise.

No, because I agree with you. I always want the first thing I say when I talk is when I went and spoke to the Stillers, you know, shout out to my Stiller family.

I said, listen, my accolades, these six degrees, they don't qualify me to speak to you. It's my experience.
It's my pain. It's my abandonment.
It's my trauma that's going to make me relatable to you.

Yes. Nothing, nothing I read in the book,

none of these plaques and degrees that are in my office on the wall is going to be what makes me relatable to you. And so I agree with you.
And I also think that it's not just

a person who has had experience. It's a person who has gained wisdom from that experience.

Because I always say, you know, when folks say, how can you give advice or wisdom to folks you've never been married to on a mother? Well, because one, I don't teach people how to be married.

I teach them how to get out of their own way. So I'm teaching you how to process through your stuff so you can be a better, healthier, happier man and her do the same.

Happy people make for happy relationships. Trauma-out, dysfunctional people make for trauma-out, dysfunctional relationships.

However, I don't want to hear from a married couple that have been married 15 years and miserable 13 how y'all did it because you're giving me your blueprint to your failed marriage.

So it's not just about experience, it's about the wisdom. Because if you look at really quick the Moses' journey, he freed the

Egyptians from Israelite, right?

From Israelite. And what happened? The Israelites from Egypt, right? They crossed the Red Sea.
He gets there. You know, he's disobedient.
The people are. So God makes him do what?

Spend 40 years in the wilderness.

He gets out the wilderness.

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Prepared by Black Rock Investments LLC. Now, Moses was the leader.

He was supposed to be the expert. Yes.
He done freed everybody, right?

He done freed these Egyptians. So now

he gets to the promised land. So God tells him, I'm going to bring you to the promised land.
Remember, God's promises never return void. So he brings them to the promised land.

That means the promised land right here. Right here.

And he tells Moses, talk to the rock. Water will come out.

Well, Moses, being so experienced, but not wise, he hits the rock.

Water still comes out. Why? Because God does what? Keeps his promises.

But guess who made it to the promised land, but not in the promised land? Moses. Because he was what? Disobedient.
But let me go further. Everybody that Moses led,

everybody that was under Moses' wise counsel, that wasn't wise, it was just experience, also didn't make it into the promised land. Only Joshua and Caleb made it into the promised land.

So what am I saying, y'all? You got to be careful of who has your ear.

You got to be careful about this person has experience because they've been married for 20 years. That makes you think they have experience, but do they have wisdom?

Because the Bible says to seek wise counsel, not to seek experience.

So you got to make sure you're doing your due diligence because like Moses, you don't want to end up being his follower who does all of this work.

He could have left you in slavery

for that.

You could have stayed in captive. You still didn't get to the promised land because it takes one decision to change the entire trajectory of your life.

And that one decision to follow Moses got them where? 40 years of wilderness

and then where? Back in bondage because they never made to the promised land. Wow.
And so, again, it's not to deem Moses. We know Moses was doing God's job.
He just was disobedient.

I just want folks to really be careful to your point of who they're listening to and do your due diligence.

Don't look at someone and say, well, because this man, you know, has three kids by three different women. There's nothing I can learn from him.

Let's see if what he's doing now is breeding the results that you want. Let's not look at a woman who doesn't have kids or a man who doesn't have a certain career.
Phil Jackson.

How many years of basketball did he play?

He played a couple. He was on the Knicks teams.

But Bill Belichick is better. He didn't play football.
But Phil also didn't do nothing, Kobe, and the people he coached did. No.
No,

he didn't play at that level. But is he one of the best coaches? Yes.
Arguably.

Okay. And you can go with Bill Belichick.
Same thing. Yes.
OG. The Hall of Fame coach, in my opinion.
Didn't didn't. Coach Sabin.
Okay.

So my point is those people are folks who are wise counsel because they're taking you to the promised land

and allowing you to enter. Right.
So we got to be careful with that. And so again, I'm teaching people results that I have.
If I don't have the results, I don't teach on it. Right.

Because I don't know about it. And if I have had the experience, but it didn't get me wisdom or a good result, I'm not going to talk to you about it.
I have a wise counsel for that. Wow.

Because I'm not a know-it-all. But I do want to give you what I do know works.
You do. That's going to be fair.
you do a lot for the black community.

Women, black women, are some of, if not the most educated, but seem to be losing in the job market at an alarming rate.

Why do you think that is? Why, do I think black women are losing in the job market, but they're the highest education? We are the highest educated folks out here. You said that part? Yeah, I did.

Okay, want to make sure.

I want to make sure.

I think that,

so I think that what's happening is more black women, and studies have shown this, are turning to entrepreneurship.

So it's not that we're losing in the black, in the work, in the workforce, it's that we are not really applying in the workforce.

A lot of us are going into, and studies have shown that a lot of women have gone to law school, which means they're having their own law firm. So they're not being hired by anybody.

They are going back to get their doctorate, meaning they're going in private practice. So who are they hired by? Unless they're working for a hospital.

And a lot of women are starting their own entrepreneurship and doing their own thing. A lot of black women, let me say, are starting their own businesses.

And what I love about that most is these businesses are businesses that are actually,

they're able to capitalize off of them and they're successful businesses. And I believe the reason for that is

there is, or has been for a while, a sisterhood that black women have been able to build.

There's no longer this

barrier or angry black woman between black women. Like we have a village over here.
We supporting each other. We are rocking with each other.
And the issue is us

trying to blend with y'all. And it's not y'all's fault.
It's just so that we don't have this barrier of this gender war. And it's not an us against y'all.

It's more of how do we blend and support each other. Even if we're not procreating or marrying or creating a family, how do we support each other just as community folks?

Just as a black woman to a black man. And what does that look like? And again, this has nothing to do with whether the black man dates a non-black woman.

I'm saying as a black man, I don't care who you date, you can still support black women because you believe in that.

Because if you're a black man, there is a 100% chance that if you have a daughter, she's black. I don't care what her mama is.
Which means you do have

a responsibility to support us because in return, you're supporting her. And that's important.

Doc, what is the,

how do I want to phrase this? A relationship.

Because...

You get into a relationship, today is Tuesday. We get into a relationship on Tuesday.
And Wednesday, that person's a different person.

Thursday, that person's a different person because the greatest key to survival is adaptability.

How do you evolve every day as that person evolves without losing yourself? I love that.

It's impossible. Well, I think the Bible says cleave.

One person, one person,

this is cleaving.

Do you think that as we don't lose ourself, we are going to not cleave? So when we bump up against each other, there has has to be some movement, which is a bit of a loss of a self.

It doesn't mean you become out in person before we can intertwine and cleave. That means you have to be willing to lose some pieces of you.
And this is the thing.

When you're single, don't you want to evolve? Yes.

Don't you want to prune? Or do you want to be a fig tree? You know, the fig tree in the Bible got cursed because it didn't produce anything.

God said, you'll never be blessed because you weren't fruitful or multiplied. That's why people don't like figs, huh?

But on the flip side, you know, the fig tree is actually the most fruitful tree ever. It grows year-round.
But let me say this.

When you are by yourself, you want to evolve. Yes.
Which means parts of you die. So why get in a relationship? And I love this question for black men and black women, especially black men.

Evolution is about parts of you dying. So why is it that y'all are okay with doing it when you're by yourself?

Why is it that when you get with a woman And that is a necessity, it's she's either trying to mother you trying trying to change you, or you're not willing to do it. That makes no sense at all.

Because you have to evolve and evolution is parts of you dying.

That means you're losing parts of you.

But when you get into a relationship, you're resistant at losing parts of you that are necessary for you to cleave with the person you want to spend the rest of your life with.

If that is what's necessary for the bigger picture,

for the mansion within y'all, the sanctuary within y'all, why is that an issue? I want to ask you that as a black man. Yes.

Why is that a problem for y'all to cleave, which means evolve, which means lose parts of you when you are in a relationship? Why is there so much resistance of I am who I am? I'm not changing.

You met me like this. Yeah.
Yeah. That's a lot.

Because I feel like because like you said, we are losing parts. If we lose parts of ourselves,

am I still the same Shannon?

But why do you want to be the same Shannon even if you're by yourself? So do you want to be the same 30-year-shannon? Nope. Nope.
Nope. So then why do you want to be that?

And you're number two with me? Are you number five with me? Why is it that me being the woman you chose? I got to be of some good character. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So my good character hasn't influenced you in any way to want to. It made me want to do right.
To do better. Yeah.
To do right. But can I say me? I haven't watered any seeds in you.

Yeah, you have. And so when those seeds are watered, right, and you start to grow,

what about the pruning season within our relationship? So you just don't want to prune? Because if you don't want to prune, that means you don't want to grow. Because it takes pruning for growth.
Yes.

So explain to me. And even when we sow up the soil to plant new seeds, there's seeds down there that get sowed up, that end up dead.
So at what point do we grow together?

This is one of the biggest deficits and issues within our black community of black and men being in a relationship. At what point do we grow? If you're not willing to grow, fig tree, at what point?

And then when God curses this marriage, head, because you covering me, because you refuse to be fruitful, multiply, fig tree,

then what? I didn't do my job? Or was I too controlling? Or was I trying to be your mama?

Or was it that you chose to sit up there with branches, unfruitful, not multiplying, because you didn't want to be pruned for us to grow.

I'm just here. I'm waiting to know the answer.
I wish I knew the answer.

And you look like you might be the only black man in this room besides the brother over there, and he's not in this interview with me.

So why?

You got to answer. You got to come to me.
What, Doc, if I knew that, I probably wouldn't be almost 60 and not married.

And I've heard you talk about... how you are in relationships.

Like you say, you got something non-negotiable, I got something. Right, but you're very, and I don't say this to, you know, poke you.

I'm saying, you know, wrapped in love, you're very stuck in who you are in relationships. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you're very, this is who I am. And when I want my space, I want my space.

And I don't need a shift or change. You can do what's conducive to me type thing.
Yeah. And so that is the resistance.
But you just said as a single man, you would not want to be the same

30-year-old you are now.

I don't.

I just. So why do you want a woman to be with you? Are you the same person you were when I I met you? I'm working.
I'm a work in progress. It's taking me longer than it anticipated.

You know, I had to repeat a couple of grades. Okay.

I think,

to be honest, doc, I don't know, like, like, I don't know, maybe like you say you had this vision of being married.

I don't know if I really, really deep down inside thought about I was going to ever be married. Cause I was just...

My whole focus was to get my family out of the environment that we're in. And I didn't necessarily think, I thought I needed a wife in order to do that.

So it was just work, work, work, focus, focus, focus. And

I don't do a great job of multitasking. So I can't do my job and love this person like I love this job.
That's the hardest part because I've always put work first. Work has always come first.

When I played, it was the most important thing. It was the only thing.
You play second, or if you can't play second, just

ain't no sense in you getting in the car. And so it's so hard for me to turn that off because I've done it for so long.

And now that I have so many people counting on me, you know, brother, sister, mom, kids,

it's just hard for me. And,

you know, the thing that I got, that's all you do is work. The only thing that you care about is work.
And sometimes I think that is true. Because I've never, I've gone on one vacation in 57 years.

But what are you overcompensating for?

Because

workaholics are overcompensating for something they're lacking.

And oftentimes, work is transactional. Yes.
It's not relational. It's transactional.

Oftentimes, folks will overcompensate in transactional worlds for what they're lacking in relational worlds. And it's usually because of what you said.

They don't know how to operate in the relational world. No.
But they do well over here. I do.
And we all go where we do what? Best.

Yes. That's why I don't have.
I don't do a whole lot of things, but what I do do, I'm very good at.

I don't take on new hobbies because I hate, well, how do you know if you're good at it? I know.

And so what I'm good at, I become great at.

But I want to know, when are you going to give yourself a chance to love and be loved? Because

you don't have to enter into it being great already. You just have to enter into it with the willingness

to shift. and be malleable not to the woman but to the opportunity of you being loved and loving somebody back.
Yeah. Which is really, you know, the ultimate fulfillment.

The reason why we have to keep working and keep working and keep working and turn into workaholics is because there is a monetary or a limited fulfillment over here. Yeah.

So we have to keep to get it. Yeah.
Like a drug. Yeah.
To get it. Yes.
But see, love is not like that. It's not.
I think, dog, for me,

growing up how I grew up and not having,

it just drove me. And that was the thing that I really obsessed about was to like to see my grandmother not have to worry about bills and not have to worry about things.

And so I just poured everything. God gave me the ability to be disciplined, be dedicated, and be determined.
And so for me, but not to a woman.

No, because if there was a choice, dog, if I had a choice between work

or woman,

I'm choosing work. But that's because work is safe for you.
It is. What is so unsafe with you emotionally with the woman?

I think for me, I haven't had the best luck with women. Why? But I haven't been the best for them.
That's okay. Talk about the luck.

What is the narrative around you haven't had the best luck with women?

Because I've never given them all of me like I have a job.

I only gave them what

they couldn't hurt. There you go.

This is good. What is it that they could hurt? What's that?

Me.

What part of you? My heart.

That was hurt when? When was the first heartbreak you can even think of? We.

I don't even.

Who was it by?

I'm not even sure, doc.

Who was it by dad? Where's dad?

My dad died when

I was 13.

Was he with mom? No. What kind of guy was he?

I only saw my dad once to really know who I was looking at. There you go.

There you go. So that abandonment,

that abandonment, woman.

What is your narrative about your father? What kind of guy was he to only have seen him once? Well,

when he and my mom divorced,

my grandfather, you know, growing up how we grow up, get divorced, the kids are going with the maternal grandparents. And that's what we did.
We came down to South Georgia.

Let me word a different thing.

What kind of father would you have to be to only see your child once in 13 years? I think he was embarrassed. About what?

Not being what he wanted, he wanted what he thought he should have been.

Not being there. My dad had some drinking issues, and he didn't think he was the father that he should have been.

And I remember my grandmother, Grandma Charlie, his mom, told us that he wanted to come home. But at that point in time, he had had both jawbones removed because of cancer.

And he didn't want, he said,

Grandma Charlie, he called her Charlie, he said, Charlie, I don't want the kids to see me like this. And she said, Pete, they're going to love you regardless.
They just want to see their dad.

And he said, you know what? He said, you know what, Charlie, I'm going to come home in September. Yeah.
Well, he died in August. August.

And so,

yeah, I would have loved because

when I played college ball and I played in the NFL and I saw guys have their dad in the locker room or standing on the sideline, I used to think, man, it'd be so cool to have my dad here and to

be a part of this. But it didn't happen.
But, you know, my grandfather died when I was eight, and that's who raised me my grandmother and my grandfather. But Granny poured every ounce into me.

But there are some things I think that I did miss because I didn't have,

my brother was like my father.

He was really the dominant male figure that was in my life.

But

that's,

doc, I mean, poverty, that's what, that's what kind of shaped me. And I, you know, I joke and I said, man, we grew up so poor, I had to win the lottery just to be broke.

Right. That's how bad we were, doc.
And that's what drives me now. All I think about is like, okay,

if something happens to me

what's gonna happen to libby what's gonna happen to spank it what's gonna happen to my mom my kids were they gonna they're gonna be okay they're gonna get more money than

would they do right by what would they

and that's what keeps me up at night and and i and i need to devote i need to shift that yeah and say okay shannon if something were to happen to you your family is gonna be okay

because i do want someone

and i'm gonna say something okay

and i i totally wrap it in love, okay? Because it's going to probably sound a little pokey. But

the same selfishness you just described your father has, you have it. You have it.

And

the pain that his selfishness and his pride and his ego implemented in you is the same pain that you're implementing in everyone you come in contact with, including your girls and their mothers.

What your father taught you was

nobody, nobody, not even y'all, were good enough

for him to come around or stay around.

And nothing has been good enough for you to stay around,

not even your kids, because you obviously are not or were not with their mothers. Right.

And it doesn't make you a bad man. It just makes you a man that needs to be aware of your makeup and how you're built because you can't change that.

When we talked about it earlier, you can manage that once you realize, damn, I'm him too.

So until you realize that ego, that pride that he has, that he has taught you, and it's obviously in your DNA as well, and that selfishness is what will always be a barrier between you and your heart, not you and a woman, it's you and your heart, then you will always overcompensate and work.

And you're going to do damn good over here. But it's going to come a time if it hasn't already, that

what you're overcompensating for, which is the heart space, starts to consume you. And you're going to need that to even balance you over here.
Because we can only

do

something out of moderation for so long before the moderation says, yo, what's up? Especially the matters of the heart.

And with you, it's what I said earlier, right? Hope deferred makes the heart sick.

And when a little boy becomes deferred, from hope at a young age with his father, and they take on the father role like you did and go and get it and put the family on the mat and take everybody out of poverty.

He usually never returns to find himself.

And the only thing, or one of the biggest things that kind of breaks my heart with you, is you've accomplished so much in everything you've touched transactionally.

It has turned to gold all the way down to the gold jacket.

But like the fig tree,

you still haven't found yourself

all the way at the age of 60.

And finding yourself takes the heart.

The mind replays what the heart can't delete. Hello.

And so you have been operating from such a mind space so that you don't have to even have a connection with the heart that it has put you in such a deficit of self.

And that's what goes back to when I said a man who can procreate with multiple women

without wanting to make sure that there is a foundation of a family there,

he has a loss of self. And that man has an identity crisis.
And there is a huge self-love deficit because a man who loves himself makes decisions that represent self-love.

And everything that you have externalized is a direct reflection of you. The brokenness in the families you created, that's just the brokenness in you.

How you can be successful transactionally, but your heart is over here talking about, well, at what point am I going to get seen? And then what the little boy in you tells the heart is,

did nobody want to see you when you was young? Want nobody tripping off you then?

So why do we think anybody is deserving, right? Or why do I think as a little boy that you're deserving of someone who would take your heart and really protect it and create a safe space?

So it's easier for you to have transactional sex or have things that are convenient for you because that gives you control. And control is just insecurity.
And security is just fear.

And that's that little boy in you who is so afraid that if I can't touch and go and touch and go with everything, I might end up touching staying

and might get stuck in a place that I don't know how to navigate.

Let me say this again: not in a place that isn't safe, not in a place that isn't loving, but in a place that the little boy in you does not know how to navigate.

It's time for the grown man in you to grow the f up and give yourself a chance to love whatever that looks looks like and to gain a sense of self of who you really are at your heart's face.

Because transactional life isn't really legacy. It just isn't.
It's nice on paper,

but it's not legacy. The real wealth and the real legacy is what Dion has.
And that's family. That's family.
I'm not saying you don't have it with your girls.

And I'm not saying it's too late to create it. Right.
But what I'm saying is I would like to offer that at some point, you do start to say, let me just dive into my heart by myself.

Even if you're still doing your transactional stuff with women or or whatever, I'm not saying stop, you grown. But start to just get a sense of self of like who you are at the heart space.

Because that's our heart is who we are.

Our mind is something that we have to have dominion over to control. But our heart is something we can't control because it's the authenticity of who we really are.

Well, since you put it like, since that, what is it about good girls and bad guys?

What is it about good girls who like bad guys? Yes.

You mean like the woman who've been liking you?

I guess you could say that too shaky. Johnny, you got to get crafty.

I think that those women, again, are women who are overcompensating for that kind of

fatherly

bad guy who can come in and create a leadership that they believe leadership is.

Usually those women are fatherless little girls who don't have a clue on what leadership, healthy leadership looks like.

So they look at the bad guy who can puff his chest out and who can cause shots or who can have some control over her as this is leadership because he's giving me some type of guidance, some type of direction.

A woman who has had a father knows how to decipher from

a controlling man who's the bad guy. and a man who knows how to lead her.

And what happens is, it's not that the woman with the father doesn't want a man who can run shit because I like a man who will run shit who will tell me exactly where to go, how to go.

And I'm even okay with saying how high when he says jump when the leadership is right. Right.
I'm quick to submit. Okay, daddy, no problem.

But a man who is a bad guy with ill intent, because if you don't have good intent, you have ill intent. There is no lukewarm.
Okay. That's it.
So you're either deceiving me or

you're allowing me a safe space where I can trust you. There's no in-between.
So the bad guy is in deception. And only a woman who wants to be led by a deceiver is a woman who is lost in herself.

But a woman who is not lost in herself and has a sense of self and a sense of what a male healthy leader looks like, like my father led me

not to

a ditch, but led me even when he had to crucify himself to lead me.

That is what a husband looks to me. A bad guy says, I'm not crucifying nothing over here.
You'll be on the cross before me.

And here you can carry minds too because that's what's conducive for me. That's a woman who is lost in the sauce.
And she has daddy issues and oftentimes she may even have parental issues.

And that's also a woman who has to take a step back and take inventory on where did I learn that this leadership is accurate leadership if I keep being led into the ditch.

That means that all she's ever known is what? The ditch. And what did I say? We go two places where we're good at or where we're what we're familiar with.

So if you want to know

where you at, just understand that you are where you're familiar at.

So my expectations are of men are very high because my father created a very high familiar standard expectation.

This is why I said a woman is what her daddy makes her, especially when it comes to men. My dad actually made the expectation too high.

And then he had to tell me, like, baby, you're going to keep being the bridesmaid, not the bride, if you keep having these unrealistic expectations. And I'm looking, like, well,

well, you the one that set those expectations.

You have to explain to me, every man's not gonna be daddy, he can be daddy to you in his own way, but it may not look like this. Yes, it doesn't mean he's not a good guy, right?

When it comes to you, so that's what it is: it's it's folks not understanding what healthy leadership is. Men do the same thing, men will, you know, pick women who

run them, emasculate them, verbally abuse them, talk to them anyway. Because for that man, that's all he knew, was that that is how a woman leads.

This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on.

Just simply go back to Club Shether profile, and I'll see you there. Hey, what up, y'all? It's DJ Envy from the Breakfast Club.
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What a matchup we got, y'all. This is that classic HBCU vibe.
Non-stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lick.
Chants echo. Drumbeat.
Everybody's showing that school pride. Game like this?

Yeah, it calls for an ice-cold Coca-Cola.

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Mmm, yeah. That taste always hits the right note, just like a band at halftime.

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