#430 - Grief Granola, Psephologist Wildfowl and How is Scratching Free?

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Hello everyone and welcome to the Ellis James and John Robbins Show.

And the sun has finally got its hat on, spreading joy throughout the offices at BBC Radio 5 Live.

All eyes were on the clock as presenters waited for the midday lunch break.

Adrian Charles' mum had said he was allowed to go out in short sleeves and he was dying to try out his new remote controlled car on the piazza outside.

It's hotter here than it is in Arbuiser, Adrian gleefully exclaimed to anyone who would listen.

He was planning a phone in about all the things that are better about Britain than Ibiza, and had scribbled down some of his own ideas next to a doodle of the Tesco logo.

So far, he had motorway services, pastry question mark, real ale and culture brackets general.

Adrian hated Ibiza, ever since a trip out in the early 90s where he'd forgotten to pack any pants.

After four days in the same boxes, he'd finally got lucky in Spacebar, but felt too sweaty to ask the girl back to his room.

Finally, midday came and the bell went.

Adrian and Naga were first of the lift.

Naga had an Araby and a Frisbee and a boomerang and Adrian couldn't believe it.

Naga, if we play Frisbee, I'll let you go more remote control.

Core, it's dead fast.

Okay, Adrian, said Naga, rolling her eyes.

You can play Frisbee, but don't let it go in the road this time.

Adrian punched the air and did a little dance.

As the five-live team made their way to the exit, Rachel Burden stood by the door with an enormous bottle of salton, making sure everyone had their sun cream on.

Adrian tried to run out of the side door, but Rachel knew his tricks.

Come on now, Adrian, you know the rules.

If it's short sleeves, then you have to have sun cream.

I've already got some on!

Leave me alone, mum!

Adrian froze.

He'd accidentally called Rachel mum, and everyone had heard.

Rick Edwards started to giggle as he rolled a spliff next to the

next to the revolving doors.

Adrian had gone bright red.

Put that away, said Rachel to Rick sternly, and Rick stuck out his tongue before putting his headphones on.

He scurried down the fire escape to listen to American Idiot in the car park.

And then they heard it.

That sound of summer.

The unmistakable tinkle of an ice cream van.

All hell broke loose.

Adrian freed himself from Burden's grip, leaving a long smear of suntan cream on his forehead.

Kelly Cates and Dotnader Bayo leapfrogged their way to the door, and Nikki Campbell ran so fast he knocked over a vaping security guard.

The van pulled up outside Cafe Nero and everyone formed an orderly queue.

What are you going to get, Naga?

said Adrian.

I'm going to get a 99 with two flags and hundreds and thousands of nuts on top and strawberry sauce.

Naga rolled her eyes again.

She knew full well what she was going to get, a shandy lolly.

And, if she was on her best behaviour and asked nicely, she might get some Mr.

Whippy on top for free.

Claire McDonnell was asking if anyone had 20p she could borrow.

She had enough for a feast but wanted a screwball.

Stop!

Everyone turned round.

Stop!

All of you!

Get away!

Bursting out of the revolving doors came the director general himself, Tim Davy.

He knocked over Matt Chorley, who was stood in his shirt and swimming trunks, filming an outside broadcast about Varukas.

Whoa!

Chorley fell headfirst into an antibacterial bath.

He'd been

Chorley fell headfirst into an antibacterial bath he'd been about to demonstrate.

Tim picked up a plastic chair from Cafe Nero and began waving it round.

What are you doing?

Get away!

He was caught between tears and anger, and looked like Keith Pratt from Nuts in May if he was wearing an M ⁇ S suit and wraparound shades.

Burden knew the signs to look out for and approached Tim calmly.

Tim,

what's wrong?

It's okay.

Tell them to

get away.

It's my ice cream van.

Oh, come on, Tim.

There's plenty for everyone.

You can have whatever you like.

No!

It's mine!

I paid for it!

A member of Tim's security detail approached.

He's right, Rachel, he said apologetically, and handed Tim his blankie.

I'm really sorry about this.

Everyone had to step away from the van.

Tim darted into the front door and got inside.

I'm the ice cream man.

I'm the ice cream man, he shouted, before getting out again, standing at the window and ordering his calippo.

Then he ran back inside and opened the freezer and put it on the counter.

He repeated this roleplay four times until he had a Calippo, two limited edition magnums and a blue sherbet cone.

Tim, you'll be sick, said Tony Yibsy.

Can I drive it, said Tim.

Uh, it's yours for the hour, sir, said a bemused ice cream man.

And with that, he was off.

Some people sloped back inside.

Adrian sat on the floor, his remote-controlled car doing circles around him.

Naga tried to gee everyone up by getting mochi balls from Itsu, but it was no good.

They were too hard to eat with your hands, and the outside goes all rubbery.

At 1 p.m., they were back at their desks.

Well, that's summer for you, said Dotton.

It's not going to be as hot as I breathe tomorrow, said Adrian.

Matshorley took off his armbands and burst into tears.

Where to begin?

They were summer at the BBC.

Summer at the beam.

God, it just does feel very autobiographical from John.

It's so.

I am seeing John in the 80s.

Well, I saw it all from the seventh floor.

Did you?

Yeah, I was vaping in that little CCTV blind spot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You made an interesting point about Idrin and his pants in Ibiza.

Yeah.

Do you take spare pants with you on holiday?

Yes.

What do you mean?

No, no, no, but you want more than one pair.

No, but no, no, not like

say you're going for three days.

Would you then take a fourth pair?

Oh, yes.

Massively.

Why?

Because

I wouldn't take spare trousers.

It's not like if I'm getting, you know, if I'm going to get wet, it's only in case I S myself, but I never do.

No, at times.

Yeah, Dave.

Thanks, John.

Let's say you're going for a nice meal in the evening.

Yeah.

And you've had a big old stomp of a walk in the day.

Yes.

And you just need a freshener.

And you just invest yourself for me.

But you don't need to invest yourself, Ellis.

Sometimes it's just nice.

Well, S can stand for sweat.

Yeah.

But I tell you what, it's a killer on a golf holiday.

The first time I went on a golf holiday, three nights, took four pairs of pants, right?

One for each day.

Like no spares.

Yeah.

And you come off the golf course, drenched in sweat and dust and bits of kind of sand, have a lovely shower.

What's waiting for you?

A damp pair of socks and a damp pair of sweaty pants.

Yeah, so now not only do I take a spare pair, I'll take four spare pairs.

Yeah, I over spec massively with my pants

and my socks.

I always do.

It's just you know, you just said you never do.

No, I always do.

So change it now that we've shown how clean we are.

You're disgusting.

I always do.

I thought that I was the exception.

Yeah.

Because I was pointing out, you know, I don't essence myself on holiday.

Well, also, Ellis, you know, if you were a single man

and you're cruising the bars of Ibiza,

you know, what if someone holds your gaze?

Yeah, yeah.

What if your hand slips into another?

You then want...

Another what?

A bag of crisps.

You want the option to go for a shower, to freshen up, to be clean pants.

That's when you put your speeders back on.

Well, I would have done what Adrian did there.

If I'm on day four.

And you're in day four of the same pair of pants.

I've never been in that situation.

No, I'm not, but he did the right thing by not inviting the lady back to his, and I'm aware it was all just a

bit of scripted funj on.

But I was there.

I was there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So he was very sensible.

I would buy pants on holiday.

That's a good point.

I would never go.

But where are you getting pants at 2 a.m.?

In Ibiza.

Yeah.

Oh, there's places.

Oh, there.

Yeah, if you make the right phone call.

If you made the right phone calls, you can always get the first pair of pants for free.

I'd rather not be like spending 25 euros on a pair of pants from a gift shop with

pants at at home.

But those pants are then your pants forever.

I got very wet on a bike ride to Paddington once.

I had to buy pants at Paddington.

But they're just part of my pants.

They're part of my pants, Rolton.

They're not Paddington pants.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

They're plain.

They're very nice.

But in fact, I was saying they're in my top three.

They're my Mount Rushmore of pants.

Yeah, yeah.

I never would have gone pants shopping in Paddington if I hadn't been very wet.

Is that right?

I'm not quite sure what your point is.

The point is, obviously.

You should never take spares or always or always buy them there.

I'm curious about how everyone's always taking spares because I routinely come back from a holiday with my spare pants unused.

Well, that's still a win.

Yes.

Because they go straight back in the drawer.

But you're using up valuable space in your case.

Oh, I've got, I'm not, there's nothing else.

But if you, of course.

Just 60 pairs of pants.

But if you've, uh, if you do have to buy pants on holiday, it's not like they're disposable pants, is it?

It just means you've got an extra pair of pants for your house.

Well, then why pack at all?

Why not just buy everything there?

Well, yeah, of course.

Well,

I think there's two extremes here.

I think what Ellis is saying is if you happen to have been a forgetful Freddy and you've only bought one pair of pants, there probably is an option to not just stay in the same pair of pants for three days.

If I'd somehow forgotten to pack any pants, the first thing I did when I get there, I'd be going out to buy pants.

There we go.

I think we're all on the same page.

page.

I am one of the lightest packers known to man.

Are you?

I'm yet always finding room for the spare pants.

That's always yeah.

I will never ever often ever use checked baggage.

Oh, I can get it all in a rucksack always.

Yeah.

Even for a week-long holiday.

Yeah, my friend Matthew the pharmacist when we went to North Macedonia, he just had a little Fred Perry like hold-all.

Yeah.

Like a tiny little one.

Yeah.

Like you'd use for your laptop and you could maybe get a charge in it.

I don't know how he did it.

Yeah, that's fine for a couple of

European trip away for a night or two.

But I could listen to the characterisation of a juvenile Adrian Childs every week.

Because the imagery because he always had frogs in his pocket, he was naughty, boy.

It's adorable, but you still picture him as Adrian.

Yeah, yeah.

But, but in shorts with scabs on his knees.

A lovely kind of juxtaposition.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Really wholesome.

He's such a wholesome man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My brother Mark,

he's stealing apples, but I told him not to.

Tell him it was naughty.

You've been a great teenager, Adrian, I reckon.

Yes.

Yeah, that sounds like a laugh.

Now then, I don't care for awards.

No, you've always said that.

I've always said that.

Yeah.

I think that creativity is its own reward.

No, you don't.

He tries to stop us entering every awards ceremony.

He says, Dave, tell me we're not going for that one as well, because you know I hate it.

I say, Dave, the work is the work.

Yeah.

Okay.

You can't compare art, Dave, is what I say, isn't it?

You do, and I have to say, yes, but you know Ellis needs it.

Yes, you can.

Picasso rubbish, dogs smoking and playing snooker, good.

I say to Ellis, what we do here defines Britain not by

first, second and third, gold, silver or bronze, but by its kindness.

Yeah, yeah.

Not by first the worst, second the best, third, the one with the hairy chest.

Fourth the golden eagle, sixth the dirty donkey.

What's a fifth?

I don't know.

Fifth went home.

However, despite me sending an email to all awards panels in the radio industry saying, I don't want to be a part of this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I believe in better.

Yeah.

I depend on digital.

I broadcast for a while.

Thanks for CCing me in on this.

Yes, really.

Yeah.

I really appreciate it that.

However, we have been nominated

an ARIA award, haven't we, Dave?

We have, John.

Which is the Golden Globes and Oscars and Emmys of Radio.

It's the egot of radio.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So anyone that's won an ARIA is an egot.

Tony's?

Yeah.

Examples of egots would be

Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber and Sir Alton John.

And Dallas and John.

And Ellis and John.

Sir Ellis and John.

Sir Ellis and John.

So Dave, before I decline and make a moving speech on Instagram about the importance of creativity for its own sake.

Yeah.

Do you know what?

When John won the Edinburgh Comedy Award, he made that speech through gritted teeth.

It's hilarious.

When you watch it back, he doesn't mean a word of that.

Yeah.

In my head, just going, 10 grand, 10 grand, 10 grand.

Do we have to split the 10 grand?

I said into the microphone.

Did you have to split the money?

Oh, fairly.

It's a good question, though.

Yeah, it is.

And also,

it's tax-free.

Is it?

Yes.

What did he spend the books on?

Paying off my ex from the house.

Cool.

Well, it is cool, actually, Alice.

The money was in my account for less than a week.

But you wouldn't have been able to do that without the win.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was needed.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

She was in the show.

I chucked it.

In a way,

in a way, she paid herself back.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I chucked it into the enormous abyss of the debt.

Yeah.

That was.

But, yeah, interesting tax point.

If you don't enter the competition, any like financial prizes tax-free.

If you actively enter, so if you fill out a form, if you enter the best pie in Britain award and send off your pie and say, this is John's pies, here's my entry, then you've entered.

So you've sort of entered as a business exercise.

So it is taxable.

At the time, that was the law.

I haven't kept abreast of the law.

There's no cash prize with this anyway.

No, because the big

commercial stations.

In fact, it costs money to attend.

Yeah.

Yeah, it does, yeah.

So it's the opposite.

The big commercial stations when they go, win, £250,000 tax-free across the network.

You have to enter because you have to send your, but it's literally send the word win to a text number.

Yeah, but you're not entering as part of a business, you're entering as an individual.

Yeah,

you're not doing it to promote your brand.

So if I, John Robbins, entered Capital Gold's like name that tune and won 30 grand, I wouldn't have to pay tax on it.

But if I, as a comedian, entered, you know, the...

Britain's got talent or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that.

What about if your business was to win money from commercial stations in a non-traditional revenue fashion then i probably would have to pay tax on it because it's a strategy but i don't know how that would come about no it'd be crazy if radio x

if radio x did a best of the band comedians and um banned comedians and it was b-a-double

yeah yeah because he's not allowed on it anymore oh of course you're not yeah yeah john's banned and um you'd win by default you'd be well exactly i'm the only one for some unknown reason that can't go on crunch and crumble

um he got on didn't he?

Well, I could go on to advertise how do you come.

You should, and you could.

I can't, but I hate you.

It's a lie.

It's a lie that they concocted to get round the fact that you hated John.

No, you're not hated.

I don't.

No, you're not hated.

You're dead.

I don't care.

So, anyway, what was my point?

Oh, yes.

Talk us through.

I mean, it's completely irrelevant, really, but talk us through the category and the other nominees.

We're up for Best Speech Entertainment.

Ah, the one that has yet.

to be won by us.

We've won a few of the biggies.

Now, Dave, I forget about all of this.

Tell me which ones we have.

Well, I actually can't remember.

I mean, I know we've won comedy.

Yeah.

This worries me a bit.

Moment of the year.

Moment of the year.

And we got bronze.

We've gone best comedy, best entertainment, and now to best speech.

We're getting less funny and less entertaining, I think.

More engaging.

Hmm.

You're talking more.

Still award-worthy.

Really talking a lot.

How many nominees have we got, Dave?

Nine.

Okay, that's a lot.

We're going to need to do something about this.

Talk me through who the other nominees are, please.

Okay.

Believe in people.

Addiction, recovery, and stigma.

Renew.

Well, he can do heavy.

He can do heavy.

Yeah, you've got that one.

It doesn't sound entertaining.

It does sound sound.

But I don't mind if they win.

Yeah, yeah.

And John could do heavy, so I'm not worried about them.

You're not going to mind this one.

British Scandal with your friend and mine, Matt Ford.

That is entertaining.

But I can distract him with forest stuff i'll say that i'll say that blair's doing a gig at forest yeah for as long as as long as he'll forget about as long as forest continue with a very impressive league form he's fine we're not winning yeah yeah can't speak for alice ellis james and john robbins yeah good what do you always help i sexted my boss well they'll be at the sti clinic

we can we can just text them from an unknown number saying your results are in yeah yeah

please call us yeah yeah yeah yeah silver award chlamydia.

Yes.

Good luck to them.

We bloody love them.

I'll take that.

If we didn't win, the ones that I would want to win are Jordan and William from Help I Says to My Boss.

Hands down.

That's what got them in the STI clinic in the first place, Dick.

John Holmes says the C-word for Unusual Productions about his

cancer.

How do we distract Holmes?

Because he actually lives at the venue.

Yeah.

Cancer.

Okay, well.

That's not how we distract him, by the way.

That's what the show is about.

John can do heavy, though.

I can do heavy, Dave.

Yeah, John does heavy.

I mean, it's a good list because then you've got Josie Long.

Oh, we like Josie.

I'm currently leading her 19-2 in our boggle tournament.

Bring that.

So I think I can.

Could be a really bad day for Josie.

If I let Josie get to 19-all, I think she might...

She might let us in there.

Okay, okay.

Great.

Louis Thru.

My lookalike.

Big hitter.

You're lookalike.

Mad.

Mate, I must have had in my life a thousand tweets.

What?

From blind mad people.

He's responded to a few.

You don't look anything like us.

I used to be the same frames as him, didn't I?

And we used to have similar hair.

So when I had the same glasses and a more similar haircut, every time the BBC would tweet about Feast of Football with a little

description of what the episode was about, people would tweet Louis Through, going, I don't know, you cared so much about Newport County.

So.

And in the end, he actually caught tweeted and said, Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Lovely port county.

Oh, nice.

We use this to our advantage.

We kidnap Thore.

Yes.

We get Ellis to dress up as Threw.

If Threw wins, Ellis collects the award.

Even though it doesn't matter and I don't care about that.

And he says a load of troublesome things that will get Louis Through cancelled.

Yes.

As Ellis Jebber again.

We used to have hair the same colour.

His hair's gone a bit grey now.

But it was a daily thing.

Wow, that's a surprise me five years yeah i wasn't aware of that uh oh your friend of mine also are family members matt chawley from five live of course

i think i can get rid of chawley how i'm gonna tell him that in ricelip there's a goose that predicts by-elections

and has got the last four by-elections correct chawley is gonna be in an uber like that yeah he's broadcasting from rice lip he constantly has an ob kit with him so he can interview anyone if he thinks there's wildfowl that's predicting by-elections daysphologist wildfowl he's he's he's gone he's gone so there we go when's the ceremony i don't

know there's one more let's not forget martin overnights on talk sports lovely stuff lovely stuff well good stuff because who used to uh was it matt ford that used to do overnight

he used to do overnights on talk sports

shifts 12 till six forty was doing do you remember that 12 till six

till six speaking to some of the country's most sane people.

And that guy from Swansea, was his name, Jonathan, who used to hate him.

Do you remember him calling him?

Matt, don't you realise people hate you?

He's just keeping him on the line because it's 4.15 a.m.

Hate Matt Ford.

In whatever form of...

Well, because he's a big fan of Blair.

Oh, yeah, I suppose you could be on the...

Why Jonathan hated him, I think.

Oh, God, no.

We were hoping to make it into coverage of an event for

your bum lasering, which didn't quite make it in kidding me yeah we didn't you know we put the audio in for that did you know

but at the time we did joke because that would have been a good laugh it would have been a good laugh and we did laugh at the time we did how we laughed how we laughed

dave comedy entertainment speech i don't like that trajectory because where's next best solid podcast we are speech entertainment we're not music entertainment are we okay we're not allowed to play any did you enter any of my hard-hitting stuff into the arias dave it wasn't in the window we'll do that next year we'll do that next year it's too hot hitting.

Too hard hitting.

So,

when's the ceremony, Dave?

Not sure if I can make it.

No, you've told me that you absolutely can.

I remember you messaged back seconds after I asked.

What did I?

That didn't sound like me.

Wednesday, the 14th of May.

Well, I'm probably busy.

No, you know what?

You got back to me immediately and said, I'm there.

I've already bought my suit, I think you said.

Can't wait.

I think someone must have had my phone.

Yeah.

Right then, everyone, let's dive straight into the Cymry connection.

It's another Cymry connection.

Do you know Daffy Levins?

No.

Come on, mate.

You must do no.

We've never met

at all.

Yes, this is the feature where Mr.

Ellis James is given a maximum of 60 seconds to try and find a connection with a fellow Welsh person.

It's been up and down lately, and I believe Dave wants to share something with us.

Yes, I do.

You were trying to connect in the wild again a couple of weeks ago.

Oh, did you know, Ellis?

Well, I'm always doing it, but yes.

Because I was there, and we have footage.

What?

We have footage of a connection that you made at my club night a couple of weeks ago.

How does that work on a podcast?

Hey?

Footage.

With audio, obviously.

Oh, right.

So it was at my club night a couple of weeks ago, Um, Ellis on stage doing his thing.

He could not help himself, and Izzy, who is here today, of course, uh, was filming as Ellis tried his best to connect with an audience member on the front row.

Here's how it went down.

Do you want to recall it?

Breast by Evans from Commander, who said you're golf could say it's gotten run over by a car, but it's fine.

No, no.

Sorry.

Well, you've ruined this.

What's that?

I was going to say, you've ruined it with this kind of false.

I brought it up.

What do you do for a living?

I work for a charity.

You work for a charity?

Oh, which one?

Do you work for what to do?

I don't, but I know somebody did.

But I know someone who did.

Who's that?

His name is Kaya.

Kaya!

Handy Lakenetti.

You worked with him as a quarterback.

So.

The crowd go wild.

Such a long conversation with him afterwards.

So, well,

by the looks of it, another successful connection, John.

I couldn't really follow it.

It was fine, and I talked to him for about an hour afterwards.

We had a lovely conversation about Abigabeni.

Yeah.

Oh, lovely.

So it was a successful connection, or was it?

We do, in fact, have a follow-up to that video that I think is important to share with you.

Do we?

Last weekend, I wore my Wales football shirt to Dave's afternoon bash in London, which we should call Dancing with Day.

I know.

I've tried to make it work visually.

It just looks a bit clunky.

Carry on.

With the vague hope that Ellis might come reconnect with me, to my absolute disbelief, I felt a tap on my shoulder, only to be greeted by the beautiful face of none other than Ellis James.

We shook hands and then he left to go on stage.

No words were exchanged.

This is where I assumed my dreams would

modestly end.

However, as he walked on stage, he proceeded to take the mic and call me out.

The crowd parted like the Red Sea, and cum reconnecting ensued.

However, Ellis very cleverly managed to finish with a name I had never heard, and before I was able to answer, he high-fived me, and the roars of success from the crowd began.

I received legendary status amongst my fellow partygoers and proceeded with my partner Taylor to get very drunk as the only possible way to cope with the fame.

So much so that on returning from the toilet later on, I found her chatting away with Ellis and his friends on a table outside.

I must confess, I remember very little of what we chatted about and hope for our sake that we didn't embarrass ourselves too much.

Nevertheless, I do remember Ellis being expectedly charming and kind.

Lovely.

What I'm most interested in is calling out Ellis pulling a sly one and wondering if he would consider another go at connecting under the pressured environment of the show.

I'm sure John would agree.

Keep up the good work on the poddler from Edward in Abergavenny.

So you didn't connect with him?

So there was no connection, no?

I think he knows my friend Andy.

But I think that the problem was there was a big reaction to a name that we didn't quite let him reply with.

So there was a celebration, but we can't give it an in the wild connection.

It was a lovely conversation for about an hour afterwards maybe not quite an hour but certainly because uh his

wife is from

seattle but they lived in new york and we talked about how the tube isn't very good in new york no it was good fun good fun and if you wear a whale shirt to any event i'm at i will find you and i will talk to you and you will try

but you didn't connect with him no it wasn't a connection i think it was a healthy connection no good try though right great this week's connection let's do it.

Yeah, last week Ellis failed to connect with Kevin, who happened to be Dave's old PE teacher.

His connection rate nudges back to 49%, with 18 successes out of 37.

We have a caller on the line from Wales.

Hello there.

Hello.

We have exactly 60 seconds on the clock.

The next voice you will hear will be that of Ellis James saying, Where did you go to school?

Are you ready?

Yes.

Okay, let's play Cymru Connection.

Where did you go to school?

St.

John Lloyd's in Fletchley.

Oh, how old are you?

32.

St John's Lloyd.

Um.

St John Lloyd.

Okay.

Do you know any kids who went to Koitka?

Not really.

Oh, right, you're thirty-two.

Well, what do you do for a living?

I'm a teacher.

Okay, where where do you teach?

I used to teach in St Mary's and Bridgend.

Ah.

Okay, where do you teach now?

I teach in Chicago.

Oh, okay.

Um where'd you go where if you went to university, where'd you go?

I went to Kaleya, Newport.

Okay.

Do you know

Rhys Webb and Nathan, the filmmakers?

They went to Kaleon.

No, no, no, no.

No.

Okay, okay.

Have you got any siblings?

Yes.

Okay, how old are they?

He's 35.

35, 35.

Okay, do you live in Chicago, such unloyed?

I think that's coin that's poor that's oh i'm so sorry don't worry about it

never apologize

since john lloyd my mother was the fleas officer in st john lloyd but before you were there

my mother also used to work in saint john lloyd's

ma'am will know her i can guarantee you of that but i

you know ma'am's not here

And I've got to accept that.

That's fine.

I mean, I could call her.

What's no?

No, no, no, no.

Since you're annoyed,

you did you write down your questions today?

No, I didn't.

No, you didn't.

No.

You said, have you got a brother?

How old is he?

And then stopped pursuing that like.

Because 35.

But you don't know.

You didn't ask his name.

You didn't ask what he does.

Because 35 is a.

Oh, mad.

No.

You're bad at quizzes.

He's not.

Dave, he is.

He's good at everything.

He's not.

I don't need to be pepped up like him, Dave.

I'm balanced.

You're fine.

Do you want to go to Sun Lounger?

No, I don't.

Out of curiosity, which part of the Netherlands did you come from?

So Fally.

Well, you can't.

Are you on the Sun Lounge?

Oh, no, we're on.

We're on.

Well, then you can't continue to ask questions.

Okay.

Will you TFP, where you're from?

Well, no, because now

I can ask our caller if there were any connections.

Caller, do you know of anything that connects you to Alice?

I actually don't.

So I'm so sorry.

Do you know what I'm going to wish for?

No.

So not a Welsh speaker if you went to St.

John Lloyd, presumably.

No.

I learnt it at A-level, but no.

Okay, interesting.

That's fine.

Do you know anyone involved in Swansea City or music or sport at all?

Oh, absolutely not.

No.

Listen,

I'm having a good time.

It's just sometimes I have a good time, and I express that by having my head in my hands and not saying anything.

Do you know if that makes sense?

I do, yeah.

Oh, so what do you know anyone in Chicago?

No, absolutely none.

I mean, I've heard of it and I've seen it on a map and I've googled an image once or twice.

Didn't you meet someone from Chicago in that clip we just played?

Seattle.

Seattle.

And America's massive.

Massive it is.

What took you over to Chicago, out of curiosity?

I work for the British school in Chicago, so they hire British teachers.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

I'm afraid

I don't want to pursue...

I mean, I want to talk to you about Chicago, but John

hates it when I've failed and just wants to move on.

So I'm afraid we're going to have to leave you.

But I'm very curious to know more about...

What's your name, sorry?

It's Lurie.

I'm very curious to know more about Lurie's life, Dave.

I've just got one question about Chicago whilst we're

windy.

No, it's not about the wind.

Are Chicago town pizzas big in Chicago?

They are.

They're more popular probably with tourists, but they are very good.

Tourists that have to just go with what they're familiar with.

Good.

I've just always wondered.

I've always wondered.

I've always wondered, though.

Very good stuff.

Well, thank you.

Thank you, Laurie.

Thank you, Laurie, for calling.

And Ellis's connection rate plunges ever further.

Thank you,

Laurie.

It's not your fault.

That's not your fault.

Don't you worry about it.

You're a good person and you have value.

Yeah, you're a good person and you have value, Ellis.

Thank you.

That's nice.

That's good.

Thank you very much.

We'll have another Cymru connection next week.

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Welcome back, everyone.

Yes, we hope that next week Ellis can do something to better the stats.

Because what's the best he could get up to now, stat-wise?

Well, if he went on a streak of 50 in a row, 75%.

You're probably only getting to.

And don't tell him this because it'll break his heart, John.

It's probably only 75%.

I just like meeting Welsh people.

Yeah.

So even if I failed to connect, I haven't.

It's a great advantage.

Because I am connecting.

We've never once had a Wally on.

We've never once had a Welsh Wally on.

They don't exist.

They don't exist.

No.

Apart from a couple of bullies at school.

Yeah, I will speak to you.

If you come up to me at a gig and you Welsh, I will speak to you.

I love it.

Do you know who else is nice?

Who?

John Robbins?

No, he's troubled.

He's not troubled.

Oh, that's very kind of you, Dave.

There is a very conscientious heart and soul in there.

Yeah, one of his Insta posts about being sad got a lot of likes.

Sadness?

Let's face it, sadness gets him numbers.

Sadness.

I'm looking at it now.

5,863 likes, 125 comments.

Blum and heck, John.

Yeah.

He monetises it.

Well, he doesn't.

It's not monetised.

He gets a penny a like.

And you'll deny it, but it's true.

right it's good and why is it nice because john was talking about a buddhist slash mindfulness technique where you set yourself the goal of noticing things somewhere between five and ten things but the goal is only to notice the thing in the moment and then

it's very zero it takes you under your head a little bit well talk us through because i i need to do more of this i am terrible at getting in my own head getting in a funk yeah if the kids are just this week's been tough because we've had ill children very tired ill for some reason ildren they're just all very ratty because i think they're growing they're having a growth spurt which for some reason immediately affects the mood yeah work's busy blah blah blah and i'm very i am not good at doing this john which is actually taking yourself away from that and just spotting the stuff that is important in the nature or not in nature does not matter it doesn't matter so i learned about this i think in a book called mindfulness in plain english but also as part of the retreat I went on, the silent retreat, where you can do lots of different things mindfully.

And mindfulness is quite a loaded term, really,

because it's sort of bandied around a lot.

But really, it's sort of, you think of it, just think of it as noticing.

So you can do mindful eating.

which I did manage to do on the retreat, but as soon as I got back, I'm wolfing it down.

But mindful eating is like trying to set yourself the task of say you having some food first you sort of look at it then you experience the smell then you taste a small amount and you feel the texture and you're just noticing each part of that process yeah

and it stops me eating too quickly and then getting sad

but the noticing walk is something I do if I feel I'm getting a bit glum and you just set yourself the target of ideally getting outside but you could do it in your own house and just looking at things differently and noticing individual elements so it could be a sight could be a sound could be

you know piece of nature could be a piece of architecture could be just something out of the ordinary and you just take a moment in that second to go huh there's that thing

What is you know, what why is that different?

Why is that speaking to me?

And then you sort of log it on a little list.

So I did that this weekend and I went on a walk I often go on, but just I took my phone with me so that I could photograph the things to keep track of them, to keep me on my goal.

And it just sort of puts you in the world and not in your sort of interior monologue.

So I shared that on Instagram.

Lovely cricket pitch.

I got a lot of likes.

A lot of likes.

Because it's the likes.

It's about the demographic.

It's about the marketplace, Dave.

Don't ruin it, John.

He's ruining it, Dave.

Hey, he'll get a sponsorship deal out of this.

Better tell me.

He's put a hashtag ad at the end of it.

Yeah, it was an idea that came from his friends.

It's a paid-for post by the Dalai Lama and Fuse Energy.

This has this lovely bush.

Yeah, yeah.

Lovely field.

Nature-based.

It is nature-based.

It doesn't have to be.

It can be blueberries, blossoms, horses, blueberries, blue bells.

Bluebells.

Yeah, sign path.

Big tree again.

It's good stuff.

It is stuff.

It is.

So I thought,

as an interesting

exercise, what Ellis's would be.

So we messaged Ellis yesterday and said, you got between now and the recording to notice

between five and ten things from your own world.

And I thought it would be an interesting comparison with what John noticed in the week.

How did you get on?

I got seven.

Great.

That's good.

Number one, I was by a bus stop.

And I saw a woman wearing like a light summer dress and her kids had shorts on.

but the man standing next to them had a massive puffer jacket on.

I thought, what is April?

What's happening here?

And then a bloat walked past him, had a big Patagonia fleece on, and then a bloat walked past me, he was in a vest.

I thought, what's going on?

It's like snakes shedding their skin.

Some are further along the process than others.

Yeah.

But it's also his interest in fashion.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, but also, you can't dress for April.

Someone's gone wrong there.

Yeah.

Everyone dresses for December properly.

Everyone dresses for June properly.

What's April doing?

Yeah.

So I noticed that and I felt grateful.

No, you felt frustrated at April.

Yeah, I'm probably grateful.

I cleaned up some cats sick today.

And as I did that, I thought, but they're worth it.

I don't mind doing this because I really like my cats.

Yeah, but what's happening here, and I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong.

No, you can't do it wrong, can you?

No, you can't.

Well, you can.

Don't you tell me I'm doing it wrong.

I'm not saying you're doing it wrong, but you're using what you're seeing to then re-engage in an internal monologue.

Sorry.

So you're seeing the clothes and you're thinking, God, bloody April.

No one knows what to wear.

You're seeing the catsick and you're going, well, but I was so frustrated.

I went, oh, what is April?

That was my tone.

Yeah.

Oh, you like this.

I saw the majestic bough of an old tree.

Well, that's nice.

And it was hundreds of years old.

Yes.

So that perhaps suggests the permanence of nature.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then I imagine the person planting that tree.

Yeah.

And I thought, imagine explaining a QR code to them 300 years ago.

Yeah.

They wouldn't get it, would they?

And imagining it outlasting you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which gives us a sense of our own insignificance.

Telling the person who planted that oak tree in Regent's Park.

You'll be ordering food in a restaurant with a QR code.

Yeah.

I love...

Feeling insignificant.

Oh, it's the best.

That's why I look at someone.

It's

incredible.

Yes.

It's amazing.

It's so good.

Because you're not the most important person in the world.

No.

And I'm not having a go at you.

No, no, it's not.

I mean, everyone isn't.

You just seem to directly.

And I'm not.

Because when we're trapped in our heads, we tend to fall into a sort of mindset where

things are going against us and we're not getting what we want.

As if the universe is designed to give us what we want.

Yeah.

Well, the universe doesn't know.

We've got a little frame picture in our lounge and we're not big on slogans, John, as much as you might like to think think we are.

The Masterman family.

But

the one written affirmation we have in a little poster is, no one gives an S about you.

Wow.

That's an aggressive way of doing it.

What do the kids think of that?

Yeah, because they are now at a point when they'll start to understand that.

But it was in lockdown.

And I think Hannah and I were just getting into the bad habit of wondering what other people thought of you or wondering how you were doing at work.

when actually you knew you were doing very well, but you wondered about that person thinking about how you were doing at work.

And we kept saying to each other, Dave, do not forget, no one gives a

no one thinks about you as much as you think you're going to be.

That's exactly the point, but it's quite a funny turn of phrase.

So it did make us laugh.

So it takes us back to a fun time.

And make sure when every one of your children turns 18, you give them their own framed copy of that sign.

Yeah.

And we followed, followed up with.

We certainly didn't.

And remember it for when they get married for the speech day.

Line one of the speech.

No, it needs to be in the right right setting, of course.

Um, yeah, carry on, I noticed that uh, my Google Drive is no longer supported by my browser.

I thought, how long can I ignore this for?

Because it tells me every time I use Google Drive, how long?

What does it mean it's no longer supported by?

I don't know.

No, I'm ignoring it though, Dave.

Yeah, you watch it.

Good.

He's noticed it, John.

I had a lovely

thing on that.

Oh, yeah, and I noticed some heather.

Good.

He's been quite dismissive.

I had a lovely bike ride and my tires are like race pressure, loving it.

And I thought, considering the joy it's bought me for considering what I spent on it, is this the best purchase I've ever made?

And I

surmised that yes, it is.

So I enjoyed my bike, enjoyed being on my bike.

I think this is the best purchase I have ever made in my life.

That's nice.

That's good.

Appreciation.

Appreciation of tire pressure.

Yeah.

And price to enjoyment ratio.

Yeah, yeah.

I had an incredibly itchy leg during a podcast recording.

And as soon as we finished, I pulled down my trousers and I had a good old scratch.

It was fantastic.

I thought, we're scratching free.

It is superb.

So it was my thigh.

And I just pulled the trousers down and I got in there.

I didn't pay a penny.

Done.

I didn't pay a penny.

And it felt fantastic.

And I thought, but as soon as it stopped it, I stopped scratching because otherwise it's going to start, it's going to feel sore.

But it was a really fantastic five seconds.

And I thought, yes.

That's nice being in the present moment of relieving an itch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Has this gone the way you thought it would, Dave?

In a way, it has.

In a way, it has because it's different.

It's interesting what different people take appreciation and gratitude from with what they're doing and seeing.

Someone on holiday sent me a picture of a lot of bread in a basket because they'd ordered in a restaurant.

I thought, why have you done that?

What sent the picture to you?

Yeah, yeah.

I don't care about your bread.

Okay, that's too negative.

That's negative, Alice, isn't it, John?

Well, the point is neither to be negative nor positive.

It's just complete non-attachment, but noticing and

went out for a meal with our friend Dan last night.

Me, Dan, and Izzy.

So I thought about the power of platonic friendship.

Did you?

No.

I don't think you did.

And I thought about we'll have another Ellis Troy's Buddhism in 10 years' time.

Never mind that.

Just on this, though, and this was because of you, John, with the gratitude list that you do in another podcast, every Sunday evening, we have a gratitude jar that we put on the dinner table in the centre.

As a family.

As a family.

Some Dave, my heart will burst.

It's a thousand centimes.

We have little post-it notes.

Yeah.

And I recommend doing this.

Even if you ain't got kids, it's just a nice thing to do with people in your life.

Or on your own.

Or on your own.

yeah absolutely uh so each person goes around scribbles it down obviously the twins can't quite write yet so we ask them what they're grateful for so they're they're consigned to the living room and they have to sit with the no one gives an s about you poster

They're not allowed to play.

No, everyone's allowed to play, of course.

And each Sunday we go from the last week, what are you grateful for?

And they're getting more and more creative with it.

I love it to bits and bats.

Yeah, so sometimes it's been like...

Give me some examples.

I'm grateful for my legs.

Oh, yes.

Because Lila was running around the green and she was very grateful that she could run fast.

Wait till she starts scratching those legs.

Wait till she starts.

There'll be one day where someone will be grateful for scratching.

Yes.

Of course.

Grateful for heating.

When it was that mid-winter we were doing it.

Very grateful for heating.

Next.

I was grateful for my car.

Yes.

Which because it was very helpful in the week leading up to the gratitude list.

So I was very grateful to be able to have a car that worked.

So each Sunday we do it and we do, and everyone has one, and we put them all into a gratitude jar.

And at the end, I don't know what we're going to do at the end.

Well, this is is Alastair Campbell's technique that he picked up from a

therapist in Canada called the jam jar.

Do you want to hear about the jam jar?

Yes, please.

So,

Alice, you can go and go on your phone if you want.

No, I think I will actually.

But also, you know, yeah, leaves, trees, grass, bird song.

Love it.

Yeah, the big four.

So, you have

a jam jar, Dave.

Yeah.

So, imagine it's this cup.

Pebbles.

And at the bottom is kind of like silt.

Right.

And that's your DNA.

That's your upbringing.

That's all the stuff that's happened that you can't really do anything about.

Okay.

Then above that, you've got sort of,

you can illustrate.

Granola.

Well, you do have a sort of granola, okay?

Which is granola is the stuff life chucks at you that's happening in the real moment.

So like events, circumstances, you know, births, deaths and marriages, that sort of thing.

Oh my God, there's wedding granola all over.

I'd happily have granola chucked at me.

Well, there you go.

I love granola.

Well, the granola of life.

So it's a mixed bag.

So these are the sort of slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

We can't control those.

So these are layers in the jam jar.

Layers in the jam jar.

So those two layers are things you can't control.

They just, they happen to us.

So that's where you start with your jam jar.

And what you then do,

instead of feeling like the jam jar is full of all that stuff and it's very stressful and the jam jar is going to burst if another blooming thing goes wrong, you make the jar bigger and you fill it with other things.

So, for example, in my jam jar, because I did this exercise, on top of that, I've got exercise is something I can add to the jam jar.

I can add being in nature as often as I can.

I can add my relationship with my friends.

I'm going to throw in WhatsApp.

It's not bad.

It's a great way of connecting.

When you live on your own, memes, messaging can really get you through.

Yes.

Right?

I'm going to say what's this.

I got to do what's.

I know being on our phones gets a bad rap, but when you're on your own, it can be the difference between getting connection with someone and not.

It's true.

On top of that, laughter.

The fact that I get to laugh as part of my Lou Sanders's sub stack the other day.

Oh, really?

Oh, my.

I laughed so much at a line from that where she's talking about being ill because she got...

food poisoning.

Yeah.

And she said, it's probably repayment from the universe because I'm always saying to my agent how I never get ill, but then something comes along that humbles me from the bum holes be

laughed at the phrase humbles me from the bum holes be

I don't know 20 times I couldn't stop saying it.

So that's that's on my jam job out of curiosity.

Yeah

Prior to WhatsApp and messaging, were you a phoner?

Did you call people?

Oh, yeah, I speak to Robin like three times a week.

Because I used to, because that's the thing, what more WhatsApp's done is I used to be a big phoner of people.

And I now almost never phone people anymore.

Well, sometimes I think it's good to,

especially if you've met someone new, especially if it's,

you know.

Love interest.

Love interest.

It's good to interrupt just constant messaging with a...

with a call because it sort of grounds you in the real world.

Yeah.

Because messaging, you can sort of get carried away in

a sort of an invention of your mind.

Sexting.

There's absolutely no need to be tawdry, Dave.

This is not the gutter side of the studio.

The Delta Pappas are sent from that side.

Here, we send wholesome images of

Blackthorn Blossom, Dave.

So on top of that, I might have podcasts.

like listening to three bean salad or listening to um

uh Brian Gittins and friends.

So basically, you just keep building up this jam jar, and suddenly all the stuff you are able to add to life grossly outweighs the stuff that you kind of often feel.

Your childhood silt.

Your childhood silt.

Oh, it's quite, that's a very, that's good.

But you're literally doing that.

So maybe next time you do your gratitude thing, you could put some pebbles in the jam jar

and start by saying, so what have people found difficult this week was there a time you were upset or a time you were stressed or a time someone upset you or you felt a bit down and then you talk about those and then you start adding all the stuff and say look what we can do if we fill our life with activities and community and gratitude and stuff

okay i don't know this is great

yes you're thinking i'm gonna have to go to home i need a new bloody jar

this is why we're no longer nominated for best comedy this is nice you don't have to be best speech as good.

It is.

It's light and shade, Alice.

You two have always been very good at that, actually.

It's as good as hearing someone not know a Welshman.

Yeah, it's different though.

It's different.

It's as good.

It's certainly not as good as someone as hearing someone know a Welshman.

No,

it's not that good.

It's not that good.

But that's interesting because

it's so easy to try and stop things happening or try and make things less in your life that you really can't do anything about.

Whereas actually, the way you should be looking at it is, they're there, that's happening.

That's happening.

What am I going to do to actually just outweigh that with other stuff that I can add in?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Add more, add more.

Yeah.

So, like, you know, I, um,

what have I done this week that's broadly positive?

You know,

you cooked any nice meals?

How many curries have you had?

Only had one curry.

That's broadly positive.

That's okay.

Yeah.

And that's good.

Yeah.

You met Alastair Alastair Campbell, I met Alastair Campbell, but I don't know how well I did.

I don't think I was at my best.

I was quite

unsettled by how much it affected me to be in the same room as him, actually.

Oh, interesting.

Well, he's quite a figure.

That's the thing.

It's his significance in sort of British history.

Yeah.

It was quite, I mean, lovely bloke, and really a very giving and honest interview.

I mean, I was watching like, Have I Got News for You?

and question time when I was like 12, 13, because we always had it on in the house.

And it's kind of like, oh my God, he's just out of there.

Yeah, yeah.

You flossed?

Yes, I have flossed.

Well done.

The dance or the dental?

The dental.

Okay.

Dental floss.

No, it's been a good week.

Good.

It's been a good week.

Hey, should we make it better and have a made-up game?

Oh, please, please, please.

Okay, made-up game then.

I thought of a thing, Dave.

Oh, good.

I went to a social engagement where I didn't know many people that I could easily have said no to, but I went and had a lovely time.

Great stuff.

That is is huge.

That's good stuff.

Yeah.

That's good stuff.

It's hard to do that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Especially at our age.

Goodness me.

Yeah.

You get stuck in your habits, don't you?

Without personalities.

Did you have to strike up conversation with strangers?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I tried to argue that Freddie Mercury was a better performer than Beyonce.

I'm not sure how far I got.

I don't really know much about Beyonce.

Yeah, you think that's a horses for courses.

I made a point about screens.

There are more screens these days.

But there were screens in the 80s, so it wasn't as strong a point as I thought.

No, still, nice to make a new friend.

So, made-up games, we're going to play the same jingle from last week, which got a lot of love on the Facebook PC degree.

Sid, it's Sid.

You're going to write down Sid again, Ellis.

Write Sid down S.

You could have put that on your gratitude list, writing down Sid four times.

And I just put it in a lovely square.

Yeah, good.

Here is Sid's jingle for made-up games

in the car on the train delve inside your massive brain make a game start to play how tall is Brian May if you are having fun you male Ellison Joggy you could be the latest round of made-up games on DBC sounds

uh scores on the doors wow Oh my gee 4015 to John the crowd are going crazy in Arthur Ashe Stadium.

In the 10th game, with John leading five games to four, this is where, you know.

This is set point, Dave.

People are going, go on, Andy.

If Andy Murray was playing.

Come on, Tim.

Come on, Tim.

Come on, Tim.

Good humour.

Go on, Emma.

Come on, Tim.

All of them.

And this is where it's exciting because you're about to win the set or not.

Oh, when Andy cried when he lost the final.

Oh, oh, it wimbled on.

But when he won, it was an incredible...

2012, I think.

Good player.

Yeah.

Good player, actually.

Yeah.

40-15, 5-4.

One win away from clinching the first set.

Big.

And this week's game comes in from Gordon.

Hello, my fabulous fellows.

I present to you a made-up game some friends and I recently came up with.

The name is Rhyme or Reason, and the gameplay is based on the kind of call-my-bluff games that have featured a few times on the show in the past.

For each round, Dave will provide Ellis and John with a word.

For example, chair.

They will take it in turns to declare the number of words they believe they can list that rhyme with said word.

They bid up until one player calls them out for the number and says it's time to rhyme.

The player...

How long have we got?

We'll get to that.

In a second.

The player must then try and think of as many words that rhyme with the original word.

What about half rhymes?

I am the judge on whether or not I think it rhymes.

Okay.

What about place names?

Ellis, let me finish the rules.

Place names are fine.

Welsh or English?

Any, as long as it rhymes.

He could be just making stuff up.

Well.

Here we go, Dave.

Bit of a stewards and girl.

Oh, my God.

I'm allowed to use Welsh words.

No.

No.

I don't think you are.

If you run out of steam.

You're a xenophobe.

If you run out of steam or pause for five seconds and producer Dave will call time.

So you've got to keep him coming.

This is...

You may as well call this john game john wins again or john wins again or john humiliates ellis again hey listen gordon is sent in a good game you play good games cognitive decline

and i don't know why or how when i can't stop it give juggling another go yesterday can't be done

so if you are able to reach the declared number that you declared then you get that many points yeah so you can really ramp them up but you've got to be daring oh dave you've got to dare you've got to dare to dream however if you fail to reach the number you get zero points.

And instead, the opposing player can steal all the points if they just were able to name one more rhyming word, okay?

Are we using the metronome for the five-second thing?

No, we're not.

It's just, it's a

steady rhyming

journey.

Yeah.

No note-taking allowed.

Why not?

Because you just got to keep going.

So?

So it's from your brain, it's from your bonds.

We want rhymes from your bones.

Ellis is writing numbers, letters of the alphabet.

Yeah.

Can I not do that?

He's just going to go through the letters of the alphabet.

I think that's how you do it, isn't it?

Yeah.

You've got to be getting them in fast.

So it's whether you're going to be able to

be writing down.

I'm not writing them.

There'll be letters I forget.

Do you know, I don't mind.

If you want to use writing, you've still got to be doing it in quick time.

It'll mean that it just depends how confident you want to be with your scoring at that point.

Oh, not confident.

No.

One.

I'll adjudicate what counts as a rhyme.

I hope all that makes sense.

Have fun playing from Gordon, okay?

So I'm going to give you the first word, okay?

Okay.

And we'll start with Ellis.

So when I've given the word, you come with a name that you will confidently that's your opening bid for how many words you think you can rhyme with this selected word.

It's then up to John.

Definitely no Welsh words.

No Welsh words.

See you in Strasbourg, Dave.

Oh, we can't anymore because of Brexit, all right.

See you in Southwark Crown Court.

So once you've heard his opening bid, you can either challenge or just ask him to rhyme.

That's That's the TV quiz I would most like to go on.

Yeah, what was it called?

I can't remember, but you have to say how many things in a category you can list.

Is it Jasper Carrot?

Who Dares Wins?

Who Dares Wins?

Was it then did Jasper Carrot release?

Miss Nick Knolls.

Great title for a quiz as well.

Slightly militaristic.

Yeah.

Are we ready?

Yep.

Okay, great.

First word is head.

So how many are you

willing to?

The lab names?

Uh, yes.

I don't want writing down, actually, because you could all be scribbling now, actually, as the, as this part's in place.

Let's no writing down.

So, do we have to turn our pages over?

Well, I'm going to see if you write, aren't I?

We've got alphabets written down.

Okay, turn over.

I don't think that's useful.

I don't think it's useful or

honest, actually.

What's I've got to turn over?

So I need to use the alphabet of my mind.

Alphabet your mind.

Got the Elsch Walsh one, Haber Eckter.

Oh, I didn't know how to use that.

C in Southwark.

Right, Ellis.

Come on, let's not spend all today.

Seven.

Interesting.

Round one.

Ellis.

Is it good again?

Wed.

No.

Nope.

Bed.

Is it bed?

He does not care, John.

No, head.

Head.

Head, but you're giving him ones by name, in other words.

Well, I've got to name mine first, haven't I?

Well, you've got to wait for John to see whether he challenges you or not.

Sugar, I should have done.

Yeah, he'd have got them anyway.

John.

His brain.

Eight.

Okay, John's gone for eight.

We're in.

We're up and running.

So what happens if Ellis gets seven?

What happens?

Oh, he's got got a now say whether he challenges you.

It's back and forth

until we get to the point where someone challenges the other person.

So we're at eight.

Are you going to ask John to rhyme eight words with head?

Which he will do, just so you know.

What do you think?

Or are you going to come back?

Do you have a look at the alphabet of my mind again?

No, it's just A to Z.

It's literally the letters A to Z on a piece of paper.

Yeah, but I need to turn...

The paper's turned round.

Yeah.

What did I say?

Seven and he said eight.

Yeah.

To rhyme with what?

Head?

Yeah.

Let's hear him say eight words.

He's challenged John to rhyme.

So let me check.

We know allowed names and place names.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

And your time starts now.

Bread.

Bread, the other type of bread.

Bed.

Dread.

Said.

Sped,

bled, fred.

That's eight.

Okay.

Or a dead and wed, you could have had as well.

I was going to go Joker Bed.

Fine.

Which is a name from the Old Testament.

He's done it, and it's that easy.

So it's one

after challenge.

So I think we need to get the challenges a little bit.

I've got more than eight.

That's an easy, that's a that's an open goal.

Now we know.

Now we know.

Now we know.

Because I think you've also got to remember: as you're both thinking,

the other person can think.

The other person's

think, Dave.

Who do you think I am?

Stephen Fry?

So it's 1-0.

So if he'd come up with eight...

Oh, it's no, it's 9-0-0.

Say him.

Say,

if I'd say, go on then, John, do nine.

Yeah.

And he'd come up with eight.

Yes.

He has failed.

The ball's now in my court.

Yeah.

Do I come up with one or nine?

No, one.

I got it, Bertie.

Interesting game.

So just one, and it could be any of the.

So John could have failed at four out of eight.

You just have to come up with one word.

That's the jeopardy.

It's an easy, it's an easy way to get the same thing.

So, you've given Ned the name.

Yeah.

And I'd have won.

You'd have stolen.

That's got to change your name.

I didn't give you the opportunity.

You didn't, because he's.

Because he's robust.

He's not just robust, he's like machine engineer to win this game.

And I'm going to go.

In which case, you need to.

He needs this.

He's writing lists for God's sake to take him out of his own mind.

But you've got to ramp him up the old tallies.

But that's a risk because then he'll challenge you.

Is this a beautiful game?

It's the original beautiful game.

Actually.

Sorry, looking at my alphabet again.

It's not allowed.

Round two: the word is fright.

John, we'll start with you.

What's your opening bid for fright?

I wonder if he's going to throw a few intimidation tactics here and go really high.

Well, I pull his trousers done.

Eight.

John starts with eight.

Nine.

Good.

This is it, John.

Ten.

Oh, hello.

That can't be done.

But you heard how easily he got to eight with head.

Okay.

So, Jelly, are you challenging?

Well, I mean, all right.

How many did you need?

He's on 10 at the minute.

Oh, 11.

Right.

Ayo.

12.

East.

East.

I can't do 12.

Are the points cumulative?

Well, yes, yes.

So John's already ate and up at this stage.

Good on him.

Good.

I can't do 13.

Not Not without access to computer and addiction.

But I tell you what, well, listen.

Make a call, but at the minute he's totally him up in his little head, so you need to.

No, no, let him do it.

Okay, great.

Let's watch.

Okay, so John, 12 names to rhyme with.

Fright, go.

Blight.

Bright.

Trite.

Delight.

Oh, that was my one.

Flight.

Fright.

Oh, yes, that's the...

No, Karen.

That's the word.

That's the opening.

The opening word was fright.

Oh, can I keep going?

No, that's it.

Why?

Because that's the word that you've got wrong.

So now Ellis is stealing.

That's not wrong, though.

It is wrong, because the setup word is fright.

You've got to name words that rhyme with fright.

That's the opener.

So I can't just keep going.

No, because now Ellis needs to steal.

Sight.

Sight's in.

He's nicked him.

Interesting.

Not on a technicality.

Not on a technicality, on the rules of the game.

We didn't state that as a rule.

Yes, he did.

You didn't.

Which what?

The rule that if

you can't.

Because that's just an honest mistake.

If I was John, I would be absolutely tumping with rage now.

Look how calm he is.

God, he's done a lot of work on himself.

I'm writing a list in my head.

Good.

Of what?

I'm just noticing all the things that aren't Dave in this game.

Misdemeanors.

Yeah.

Round three.

So, Ellis, you nicked the 12 points there.

So it's 12 eight to Ellis.

I mean, it's a turn-up for the boys.

It does feel like Greece winning Euro 2004.

Can you name any of those players?

No one ever can.

Georgie Samaras, ex-city striker.

Oh, okay.

Round three is day.

Ellis, we'll start with you.

What's your opening bid for day?

Eight.

Eleven.

He's good.

Bold.

What's the word again?

We can write down the word.

Write down the word.

So he doesn't make that mistake.

So I'll write down day and I'll write down Sid.

Okay.

John's on 11.

Oh, let's see them then.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Ellis hasn't played one single round yet.

Not too scared.

I'm going to be humiliated.

Okay, John.

Because I am thinking in Welsh and you're discriminating against me.

No, I'm not.

I'm not.

The word is day.

11.

When it comes to Roger Cymru, the door is always open.

And your time starts now.

Delay.

Oh, that was mine, one.

Dre.

Like a drayman in a pot.

Frey.

Tray.

Say.

Wahe.

No.

Yay.

No.

Way.

Bay.

Stay.

Chay.

And that's your 11.

Thank you.

That's your 11.

What's the?

There's a couple of.

I very rarely question, but there's one or two of his that were incredibly dodgy.

Is Wahee in the Oxford English Dictionary?

We can look at Wahei.

Well, Dave, you're the judge.

Or is the Oxford English Dictionary the judge?

I'll be the judge.

And you said yes.

I'll be the judge.

And Shay Guevara.

Shea.

Yeah, we said names were fine.

Wahe, meaning.

I'm alright with Wahe.

I think it's okay.

Like three on the bones.

Wahe, Yay.

Yay's fine.

I think because of friends, I think Ye actually did end up in the OED.

I remember because it was Jennifer Richel used to say, or Phoebe.

I think Ye has been in the dictionary for years.

Yeah, exactly.

But Wahey.

Yay or Nay.

No, oh, I was thinking of the foreigners.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you're nay.

I was thinking of the different.

I was thinking of the friends, yay.

11 points to John.

All right, then.

Round four.

What's the cut scores here?

It's 19-12.

Ellis, you're still in this.

John, we'll ask for your guess first with face.

Ooh.

Nine.

Nine for John.

Uh, twelve.

Yes!

Big talk.

Someone's.

How many rounds have we got left to go?

Face.

I love that you keep asking what the word is after coming in with great big guesses.

Well, that's because of.

It's good.

Okay, name them.

Here we go.

We're getting a round from Ellis.

Messi's off the bench.

Okay.

12.

Remember, we need them in order.

You can't take longer than five seconds in between because that counts as too long a delay.

The words have to be different.

The words have to make sense.

Rhyme with face, please.

12.

Ellis, go.

Race, mace, colour pace,

lace,

base.

that's five seconds, I'm afraid.

Five,

John, do you want to name one quick?

Space.

Space death.

Yes, that was one of my ones.

12 to John.

But did I decide not to say it, actually?

No, you didn't.

Space.

Because you don't want to use them all.

I'd need to write down.

I'm just asking him to use my mind.

I can't speak and think of the same thing.

I can do that.

He's not Stephen Fry.

He's not Stephen Fry, for God's sake.

31.

12 at the minute.

Okay.

So it'll take a big round, but let's play it because we're having fun.

The final word is Brave Ellis.

What's your first guess for Brave?

One, he's lost all confidence.

Six.

Six for John.

Six.

What was the word again?

Brave.

Rhyming with Brave.

Six.

Let's hear them then.

That's if.

He's got a mad.

I'm not talking a deep blue.

He's got mad.

Ryan with Brave, John 6, please go.

Naive.

Crave.

Wave.

Fave.

No.

As in favourite.

It's all right.

Fave.

Dave.

Yellow.

Good one.

Maeve.

Great.

It's the big six.

Another six points to John.

I mean, it's 37-12 in the end.

But how many did Ellis actually get?

How many answers did Ellis give?

He got enough.

How many over the course?

No, how many did he give to get those 12 points?

One word.

Oh, I see what you mean, yeah.

In terms of point scoring,

very, very efficient.

It's cool being tactical.

Very efficient, yes.

Could be intact to tap him.

Yeah, he has cool being tactical.

They all can't.

So, Dave, I've won the first set.

You have won the first set, John.

And what's my prize?

There is a prize

incoming on next week's episode.

Sorry to tease.

We just had to get it across the line.

That's all right, that's all right.

And then, of course, there'll be some.

Mad's prize, I know what it is.

Yeah, it's Madden's Prize.

Is it five grand?

It's not five grand.

No.

Mr.

Blobby coming into the studio.

Is it a non-executive director's role on the BBC board?

No, we did try for that.

Davey had problems with it again.

Yeah.

Well, he's heard too many intros.

Yeah.

So well done, John.

Who would have thought set one of Made Up Games, which started on the 6th of February 2024?

No way.

Would have concluded on the 11th of April 2025.

Amazing.

It's got to be rallies in there.

Yeah, it's one of the longest sets in history.

We never once went to juice.

No, I don't think there was a juice.

And yes, there will be a prize.

There will be a prize in an upcoming episode for John's first set victory.

But, Ellis, the match isn't over yet, is it?

No.

No.

His first of five sets.

Best of five sets, sorry.

Of his best of five sets.

Yeah, John.

It'll take about three years, isn't it?

Yeah.

Longer.

Longer.

John might have retired by the time we finished the match.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I wonder if he retired before winning the tennis match of our made-up games.

Yeah.

That we would have to carry on in our own time.

Yeah.

Well, I enjoyed that game.

It was good fun.

I didn't.

It was absolutely foul.

I hated it.

Like, I always hate weird games.

Do send in your sports-based games

of football kits.

What do you want, Al?

What do you want out of your games?

I just hate word games.

Just hate.

So, no more word games.

Unless you've got a great one, because we do need games.

We like prices.

We like weights.

Location.

So we like distances.

We like physical games.

He loved throwing things in bins.

He loves throwing things in bins.

We like blindfold games, Dave.

Yeah.

Don't we?

Yes.

We like impressions.

Yeah.

I like the vibist ones.

So John doesn't.

See, this is why it's the yin and the yang.

It's the yin and the yang.

Yes.

And somehow it works.

Yeah.

Somehow, Dave, we make it work.

Do you want to whack out a shame well before we go, John?

What was I thinking?

Why did I say he had nice ankles?

She was stood behind me the whole time.

I didn't know he's only got one hand.

I was signed in on her Gmail.

John Shamewell.

Yes, that's right.

Here we are down the bottom of the well.

And here is this week's submission.

Good evening, ladies and jelly spoons.

Not quite.

Not quite.

No, because that's half serious and half fun.

Yes, I mean, you could have ladles and gentlemen.

No?

Ladies and jelly spoons and ladles and jelly spoons.

And the dream is ladles and jelly spoons.

And I had a cameo request from someone whose

partner is doing a best man speech that begins.

Great.

Welcome, ladles and jelly spoons.

And every announcement that John made at Ellis's wedding, he started with ladles and jelly spoons.

I did.

And a lot of people said that was the best bit.

Yeah.

Including a Z, which is a real kick of the teeth.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, jelly spoons.

I'm writing to inform you of a hot off-the-press shame well.

I'm currently sat in a beautiful alpine cabin on day three of my honeymoon.

Nice.

What a great setting for a honeymoon.

Not too far.

Not too expensive.

Stunning scenery.

Stunning.

I mean, I say not too expensive, depends what kind of cabin you got.

But anyway.

My wife and I are staying in one of the most picturesque places on this good earth, and yet all I can think of is the cavernous shame shame pit that I've just dug for myself.

What a shame.

What a shame.

I will caveat this tale with the following statement.

I'm not good with phones.

It all started two days ago.

Oh no.

When my wife suggested we create a shared iCloud album to post our pictures of the honeymoon.

Great, I thought.

It's a nice place to collect our memories of our time together and saves me sending them back and forth.

Time to step into the modern age.

Now, I've never really used shared albums on iCloud before.

The only time I'd used it previously was for gig footage, and I've still yet to work out how to delete it.

My wife informed me that she had created the album, invited me to it, and that was it ready for us to post in.

If either of you have used this function.

We've got a big shared album for the family, so that all it's called Making Memories.

And everything goes in there that's you know like the kids birthday yesterday all goes in because my mum and dad are on it handed mum and dad are on it okay so it means that everyone can see these pictures right

and did you expect i said no

haven't seen my photos my wife informed me she created the album invited me to it and that it was ready for us to post in at some point i must have switched off and missed an all-important detail the name of the album Fast forward two days and my wife declares, I'm still waiting for you to post in our shared album.

What do you mean, I say?

I've posted all my pictures from the last two days in there.

In fact, it's only my pictures in there currently.

My wife replied, no, I can't see any photos.

You've not posted.

This should have prompted me to check the album, but my wife, like me, isn't great with phones, so I put this down to her getting mixed up.

Insert today.

After a particularly beautiful lake hike, I went into the shared album to see if my wife had shared any pics of us.

There was still nothing.

At this point, I finally decided to click on album information to see if she was definitely linked.

It was this point I died inside.

You see, my wife had told me the album she'd set up was called Honeymoon.

I wasn't listening, and so missed this important detail.

I did, however, have a shared album on my phone titled Holidays.

I assumed this was the new album she'd set up, and that my phone had automatically picked it up.

Turns out, however, that Holidays was an old album.

It was so old, in fact, that it had previously been set up by my ex six years ago.

I'd never noticed it then

and even if I did I would have no idea how to get rid of it.

Clicking on the information I could see that I'd spent the past three days bombarding my ex-girlfriend with pictures of me and my wife on our honeymoon.

The only other information I could glean from a one-line statement at the bottom of the album.

Redacted name has left the album.

John, please rid me of this shame.

Well, I tell you what.

I thought it was going to be the other way around.

I thought you were somehow been adding photos of you and your ex-girlfriend to your honeymoon album.

Right.

That's like game over.

Yeah.

Imagine ruining your honeymoon by sharing pictures of you and your ex with your partner.

On your honeymoon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But But what, yeah.

So all you've done is you have, you know, you've probably caused a bit of upset and disturbance to an old relationship.

There's maybe a message you can send saying, I'm so sorry.

I've got so confused with my phone.

This bloody new wife of mine, gosh, she's a nightmare.

Don't throw the wife under the bath.

You've got to throw the wife under the bath.

You don't.

You just need.

It all depends how that relationship ends.

You've got to say, listen, sweetheart, it's not like it was when it was with you.

I've got all of this digital.

I've got digital homework.

Cool, what are they like?

Anyway, apologies for the spamming you.

I want you back.

I want you back.

When we make it homework,

I'm back from the Alps on Thursday.

Yeah.

Two nudes of you in front of Mont Blanc.

Well, I thought it was going to go down the nudes route.

That's where I thought it was going.

So I think, actually,

as disturbing as that is, it could have been worse.

They don't go into the detail too much about

the detail of the pictures.

And that's fine.

And that is fine.

Good grief.

But you wouldn't be sending rude pictures to each other on your honeymoon, would you?

Maybe playfully.

Would you?

Maybe.

Yeah, if you're in the prime of life and you're on your honeymoon, you can't keep your hands off each other, surely.

Sure.

Quick snap here, quick snap.

No, that's it.

The height of the height of.

Really?

It's all downhill from the honeymoon.

No, it lasts for six to seven months.

Does it really?

No, it carries on.

Yeah.

Depends how you want want to keep the spark alive, John.

There's ways.

There's ways.

Yeah.

There's ways.

You know, there's ways.

You know, mutually listening to political podcasts together.

Yeah.

Explaining the situation in Burundi together.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Foi, foi, foi.

Oh, that's big, though.

I wonder if he's told his wife.

Oh, God, please don't do that if you're listening.

Do Net do that.

You have dodged a bullet.

So don't reload the clip.

Send your Shane Wells to elliserjohn at bbc.co.uk.

Send your gratitude lists and noticing things to at ellis underscore james underscore content on Instagram.

He reads them all.

He loves reading them.

And we'll have another seven next week, won't we?

No, Dave, it's going to be John and Dave's Buddhist Corner.

Yeah.

And Ellis in Fairness can do what gives him joy.

Soil.

Which is soil and go on his phone.

Soil.

But I don't think Ellis needs this kind of escape from his interior monologue.

He just needs a big scratch.

He's a very balanced chap.

He just needs a big scratch.

It was fantastic.

He needs a big scratch, a double espresso, and an hour on his phone.

Yeah.

What a life.

If only friends married each other.

I know exactly what he needs.

Yeah, yeah.

He knows exactly what I need.

I know exactly what you need.

You know exactly what Ellis needs.

We should get married as a thruple who don't see each other naked.

Yeah.

No, we'd keep it alive in the bedroom.

No, we'd just, we'd go to, we'd go to the Algarve and all go on our phones.

God, you'd go and play golf.

I'd go and play golf.

I'd be desperate to watch heavy drama.

Oh, I love a bit of heavy drama.

For God's sake.

But this is the thing with friends, you're allowed to go and watch heavy dramas all night in your bedroom.

It doesn't matter.

Have you seen Lemmy's story about when his friend took the, his flatmate took the TV into his bedroom?

It's like a 25-minute story.

It is so funny.

He's funny.

It's unreal.

He's the best.

He's so funny.

He is the best.

But then Kevin Bridges is incredible.

Yeah.

Scotland's record for producing amazing comics is.

But the fact Limmy's just chatting to camera.

Yeah, yeah.

So this stuff is just coming up.

Send me a link to that.

I will leave it.

I will send you a link to that.

Yeah.

It's a superb bit of flat share drama.

Oh, great.

Right.

Thank you for listening, everyone.

We wish you all the best.

We wish you a merry dance.

Yeah.

And

see you soon.

Bye-bye.