#475 - Two Pint Problems, Yaris Rats and Carry On Loving Britain

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Well, folks, you find us in a good mood here because we've just chatted to Adrian and he finished with a beautiful turn of phrase which has really

sort of warmed our hearts.

The phrase was, carry on loving Britain.

Like, keep Britain tidy.

Yeah, carry on loving Britain.

Adrian, I think, has been editor, guest editing for GQ.

Yeah.

A special edition about the things that make Britain great.

Yeah.

You know, and a nice message in a time of division, a time of confusion and argument over what Britain means.

Yeah, nice to remind worldwide readers that an awful lot of sport was codified in England.

Yes.

So can we just carry on loving Britain, Dave?

I do.

If that's okay.

God made me laugh when he said that.

It also is quite a good idea for a carry-on film.

Yeah.

Carry on loving Britain.

Yeah.

Is it patriotic?

Is it sexual?

It's both.

Because flags can be erotic, can't they, Dave?

Yeah.

They can, can't they?

Is it, can they?

One think of

Jerry Halliwell.

Yes.

In the Union Jack pants, I think.

And is it...

Well, it was a very short Union Jack dress.

Is it the Breton flag that's just three legs?

Not the Manx flag.

Is that the Manx flag?

I knew it was a Celtic flag.

Yeah, the And of Man flag with three erosion.

Three intertwined legs, Dave.

Okay.

I mean, that's sexy.

Yeah.

That is.

What is the sexiest flag?

Ooh.

I bet there's a lot.

I mean, these are made, these are bespoke flags, but there's a lot of sexy flags at Glastonbury.

The Nepal flag looks a bit like a bra.

Does it?

Yeah.

There's a sexy dragon on the Bhutan flag.

Okay, I'm going to Google sexy flag

and I get

sexy lady flag, polyester hot woman banner, and it's Wales.

Yes!

On Amazon.

Sexy lady.

What is it?

Is it on Prime?

When can I get my sexy whales flag?

No, for some reason, the Wales flag was the shortcut image.

No, it's just the image of a woman in silhouette on a flag.

Who would have have that flag, Dave, a sexy woman?

I don't know.

Oh, the Breton flag's black and white, isn't it?

That's the Islaman flag, Dave.

That's sexy.

Oh, look at those sexy robots.

Three legs.

Yeah, three legs.

Oh, Nikki Minaj on an American flag wearing a bra.

I mean, that's.

A lady with a robot head wearing a bra.

Where do you find it?

What have you Googled to find it?

I've just Google imaged sexy flag, and I encourage anyone at home to do it too.

How far down do we have to go to get the first sexy male flag?

That's right.

And in the post.

Oh,

Dave.

I didn't know you did Bobblingworth, Dave.

So it's a chap in ice white boxes, very well defined, stood in front of an American flag.

And it's just a stock photograph called Muscular Sexy Man with US flag behind.

Yeah.

Good that you can get all this stuff in the post

online safety act world as well, dear John.

That's pretty.

Didn't have to fire up the old VPN to access the sexy flags.

The Island Man.

But what are some things we said that...

Are we putting that in the show, Dave?

We can do.

We can put it in the show.

I said climate and landscape.

Yeah.

Ellis said conservative values.

I'll tell you what.

And Christian festivals.

Why don't we drop it in a little bit later on in this app?

Okay.

As a little teaser.

But what are some other things we like about Britain?

We put it in now, Dave.

It's very early in the end to be whacking in a child.

There's no rules, it doesn't matter.

No, no, but I think listeners come for some hot chats.

We can children.

Chatting around Chiles.

All right, we could chat around Chiles.

Another good name for a TV show.

Adrian Child sits in a swivel chair in the middle of a theatre in the round and we chat around children.

That's the kind of thing that BBC Worldwide would make an absolute fortune out of.

You can just see that being prime time in about 180 different territories worldwide.

Yeah.

And so the and the auditorium is a thousand people representing the populations of the different countries on earth.

Okay.

So there's like one woman there from Togo.

Yeah.

There's like 450 people from India.

Yeah.

And they're all chatting to childs about their vested interests.

Yes, and he's overwhelming for Adrian, is it not?

He'd be able to deal with it.

He's got something to say about to every one of those people as well.

Before he came to us to ask why we loved Britain, he was talking about the perfect recipe for porridge.

Well, that's also British values, isn't it?

Absolutely.

No, it's not, Deve.

You cannot argue that porridge represents British values.

That's what someone was on arguing, though.

Were they?

Yes.

Another thing I love about Britain is its culture.

Oh, yes.

It is mad that this country has given the world...

a huge proportion of the musicians that have dominated music, considering our size.

Yes.

I mean, you can't say anything close to that for any other European country, any other country of our size.

No, in a specific kind of music that we're talking about.

Yes, in terms of like rock, pop.

In terms of like classical composers, Britain does quite badly, actually, compared with Germany and Austria, for instance, and Italy.

Correct.

But when it comes to, yeah, rock music, I've seen it.

And interesting stat recently, in terms of the music listened to on Earth, it's quite a small proportion, but it's still punching way above its weight.

In terms of cover stars for Mojo and Uncup magazine, Bob's Your Uncle.

Absolutely.

And I'm guessing Roaning Stone, not that I've ever read it.

Whispering Bob's Your Uncle.

Whispering Bob's Your Uncle.

Spot on.

Well, let's put it in now, Dave, so we can be fleet-footed broadcasters who aren't afraid of change.

Otherwise, we're going to be out with the dinosaurs.

Yeah.

Okay, well, here's our recent two-way with Adrian Chiles talking about what's great about Britain.

Great, great work.

Adam Chiani, a former porridge-making champion, and Constantine Costi, who's directed the Golden Spurtle, and you can see it in cinemas now.

Well, that kind of eccentricity is something I'd point to as something to love about Britain.

Ellis and John get around the country a lot on tour at the moment.

and join us now.

So if I said to you genuinely, you know, you love about, what do you love about Britain?

What's your answer to that, Alice?

As someone who grew up in a small Welsh town, I love Britain's big cities: Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester.

I must admit, I love London.

I think London's an amazing place, but Newcastle, Edinburgh,

they're just exciting.

They're really exciting places to be.

Better than other cities,

better than Lyon or Frankfurt or Seville or other boring places, like that.

I don't know, I I mean like I was in Brussels in uh June watching Wales play, and yeah, it was fine, but I would take Glasgow over Brussels any day of the week, Adrian.

And uh what what about what about you, John?

And what do you love about Britain in terms of manners, places, weather?

What what what would you I think Britain's most maligned feature is actually its Trump card, which is the climate and the landscape.

I mean

when you go abroad, you realize how few countries get an autumn and a spring.

And most of the countries that do get an autumn and a spring, so in those sort of temperate areas, have brutal summers or brutal winters.

There's not that many places on earth that have warm summers,

bright springs, beautiful autumns.

And that means we have this incredible abundance of wildlife that means every time you go into the landscape, you're seeing something different.

I went to Costa Rica in March, and that's people I know who've been say it's just the most incredible place on earth.

And it is, but the weather is either 40 degrees hot and everything dies,

or it's wet.

So they have two seasons: they have hot season and wet season, and the shoulder season, where it's hot and wet.

And when it rains, it rains so much that either you can't go out because power lines are down, roads are flooded, or your electricity goes out.

So when we moan about sort of drizzle here or the cold, actually,

we've got it better than most.

In fact, I'd say we've got it better than anyone.

And in terms of landscape, there are other countries, you know, other continents have got more dramatic landscapes.

But in terms of the variety in a short space of time, in a sport,

time if you're traveling and distance.

I mean, Britain takes some beating for that.

I got the train from London to Glasgow for the Glasgow show.

And when you go through the Lake District, it is absolutely spectacular.

And Scotland.

Scotland's unbelievable.

West Coast of Scotland, of all the places I've been on earth, is the most dramatic, actually.

And let's not forget the breathtaking vista of Reading.

What about comedy audiences?

Well, the thing is,

are they the best?

You must love them, surely, or perhaps you don't.

That's why you feel about your audience.

The thing Britain has that the vast majority of English-speaking countries don't have is cities that are all commutable from each other every day.

The Australian comics find that incredible.

Canadian comics, American comics.

If you want to go and tour in America, you are flying by plane everywhere.

And it's expensive.

Which is hugely expensive.

Whereas I can drive to Glasgow now if you want me to, and I can get there in time, probably just about for a gig tonight, and then drive home.

I imagine producer Dave at the wheel of a Winnebago.

He's just got a new lease car, so he's come in with a bit of a spring in his step.

I see.

Interesting, interesting.

Listen, thank you both very much.

Good luck with

the rest of your talk.

Carry on loving Britain.

That was Ellison John.

It's it's

me before.

Spoil it.

Just come up to one o'clock.

Carry on caring about Britain.

So wise.

So there we are.

And we're all together, aren't we?

We were remote last time.

We are.

Were we?

No.

No, we weren't.

We weren't.

No.

It's tricky, though, isn't it?

It is tricky to keep up, you see.

It's disconcerting when we're away from the usual Friday wreck.

Isn't it?

What day is it today?

It's Tuesday.

Right, yeah, I should be playing football.

Yeah.

I mean, I've just, it says on my sheet anecdotal, and all I've got is autumn.

Brackets general.

Go.

But I don't have an anecdote about it.

It's just an observation that it's autumn.

And do you like it?

Love it.

And then I also love spring.

I find autumn depressing, actually.

Why?

Because it means that summer's offer and summer's my favourite season.

So when I see the leaves

start to fall off the trees, etc., I just say, oh.

Oh, no, it's when all the good stuff's coming.

This is the longest.

I've got to wait for the summer.

Bad fire nights.

Yeah.

Bad fire night sucks, man.

And it does not suck.

What is wrong with you?

You suck.

I am allergic to fun.

That's what you are.

Dave.

Allergic.

Dave, who?

Dave.

My birthday is November the 3rd.

I had a fireworks slash bonfire night.

Bonfire night reminds you of aging.

No, I had a bonfire night slash fireworks night party every night.

Well, every birthday until I was about 12.

Why don't you like bonfire night?

I just think it's fine.

But I certainly don't think it's as good as summer.

It's better than a non-bonfire night.

It's not better than summer.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, I know, but we're not comparing three months with one night, you faff.

Is bonfire night better than an empty day?

It's no.

Because you're a bit cold.

I do like fireworks, but bonfires are fine.

No, bonfires.

Gives the Rotterdam Club something to do.

Well done.

We go to Crispin's house.

Crispin is a familiar.

character on this podcast.

And watch the staff erect the bonfire.

Not everyone has access to a billionaire, Dave.

Yeah, Dave.

His battle's back in use now as well after the after Waspgate.

Sounds like my love line.

That makes me proud to be Britain.

Let's keep loving Britain.

Dave,

tell us more.

So Chris Bin, very kindly, does his own bonfire, erects his own bonfire, by the way.

Every Halloween we pop round.

There's about 10 families that go around.

We have a lovely Halloween.

Sorry, not Halloween, Bonfire Night.

Sorry, I should say.

Halloween is completely taken over from Bonfire Night now.

Well, they're very close together.

So Halloween planned it was an afterthought in 1988.

Yes.

It was all to do with Guy Fawkes.

Yes.

Big time.

In fact, the only people who celebrated Halloween in our street were the American family.

And mum used to say, because it's an American thing.

Correct.

Whereas now, kids lose their minds at Halloween.

I reckon it was the film Halloween that made Halloween big, like further afield than America, because it was around that time, wasn't it?

No, it's in my lifetime, a very modern thing.

Um, when I first moved to London, suddenly people were actually a pagan festival, yes,

you gotta say that.

It actually dates back um 1500 years

to the Picts and the Celts and the Saxons, actually.

That's all I've got on that.

That's all the information I've um got, actually.

Yeah, because they used to absolutely love Star Mix, didn't they?

The Picts

Tang Fastics,

yeah,

Mawams.

Yeah.

Beowulf actually has got a whole chapter on sherbet dib dabs,

which would have tasted wild.

Imagine giving a sherbet dib dab to an Anglo-Saxon.

Well, you'd the Anglo-Saxon would, or the jute, would think that their tongue was going to fall off.

You would definitely, you would be...

on suspicion of witchcraft.

Oh, yeah.

I've just finished listening to the witches.

The Road Arl Bob.

Yes.

Okay.

Because I thought, I've listened to Danny Champion of the World 200 times in a row.

It's time to spice things up.

The witch, have you, when was the last time you read The Witches?

1990, probably.

It is absolutely terrifying.

Is it?

It is unreal how scary that book is.

Yeah, it's mad.

And I'm listening to it thinking...

Now I watched a good clip of, I think it was Carl Donnelly on a podcast talking about how like all children's literature is now you know Captain Guff bum and the impossible poo from his snotty nose.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he made the really good point that he says, I don't think that's being driven by what kids want.

I think that's an adult invention.

Yeah.

It's what adults think kids want.

And the reason I think kids don't want it is because when you're going through your sort of poo and bum phase, which is early doors, actually.

The reason it's so intoxicating is because adults tell you to shut up and it's not appropriate.

Yeah.

So you're being naughty.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Whereas if every book you're being given is the bum wipe king of the terrible trousers full of weed.

You've got a book deal.

Full of weed.

This would be an odd sequel.

The bum wipe king.

The bum wipe king with his trousers full of weed.

But then when does that become

but that's not illicit anymore, is it?

Whereas

the witches, I mean, every single Roald L story begins with a child saying, my parents died.

Yes, yes, yes.

That's the beginning.

Yeah, yeah.

So James the Giant Boy.

Or you're neglected, like in Matilda.

Danny Champion of the World, BFG,

The Witches.

Yeah.

And then

the description of what witches are.

and how they exist and how this is not the sort of witches of storybooks I found absolutely chilling

as an adult.

Yeah.

Oh my geez.

Also, I think my

limits have changed.

Like I've I find roller coasters really frightening now.

Like unpleasantly so.

Yeah.

I would say though, interesting challenge for a narrator.

So the version I've got is Miranda Richardson.

Oh yeah.

And it's a tricky one because the witches, there's a lot of screeching and a lot of screaming.

Does she do all the voices herself?

She does.

And through no fault of her own, she's a fantastic voice actress.

But if you go to 10 out of 10 and you've got another 20 minutes left of 10 out of 10, as a listener, it's like, this is too much.

She's screeching in my head.

But the text doesn't really give you anywhere else to go because the Grand High Witch is doing her big speech.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anyway, how's everyone else's life?

Does it help you sleep though?

The witch is no.

Because

it's too scary.

You're always woken up by a scream.

Oh, okay.

Because I need help sleeping.

I had another terrible night last night.

Well, you're on tour, your body is on tour time.

And I've had that that I now, on my night off, can't get to sleep till I'm on the side.

It's also,

I went out with a great bars of gym for a pint after the Leeds show, and I had two pints.

And then I fell asleep and I woke up at half past one.

You need to drink more.

Yeah.

Because the alcohol's wearing off at half one.

Yeah, yeah.

You need to have that many pints.

And that sees you through to the last one.

And then that was that.

Yeah.

So then last night I was knackered and my daughter couldn't sleep.

So I said, I'll lie down next to you to help you sleep.

And then I fell asleep.

And then I woke up at about half past 11 in her bedroom.

P.M.

Yeah, brushed my teeth, went to bed.

And I was awake then until about five.

So every night.

What's going on here?

Every night.

John.

What's the mental state?

I'm trying to disengage my ego, like you said.

I didn't check my watch.

I was just lying there thinking, it's all right.

Just have a nice rest of your body.

Well, that is a good technique, actually.

It is annoying.

Yeah, but waking up is hard.

But once you've been lying down for an hour, half an hour, I say, get up, go downstairs, make yourself a herbal tea, do some reading, actually get out of bed.

I did end up at around half past two reading 20 pages of Roy Hattersley's biography of Lloyd George, hoping that that would do the trick.

Too gripping.

Right.

We need to get you into a meditation practice.

I would absolutely love watching you try and meditate.

You must have tried a bit of meditation.

I did.

When the kids were little and

their sleep was very broken, I did try the Headspace app and I found that that could get me to sleep.

So I probably need to refine.

In fact, I'd forgotten about that.

So that will be what I try tonight.

Also, that thing of going from

either your head to your toes and tensing each muscle individually as you go down.

So you go, right, first I'm going to scrunch out my face and do that for like five to ten seconds.

Then you go your neck five to ten seconds, shoulders five to ten seconds, and then all the way down to the bottom.

So calves, ankles, feet, toes.

Then do all of it at once for 10 seconds and then relax and you'll be amazed how quickly you fall asleep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, I'll give that a go.

Because you're teaching your body, because when you're alert,

when you're alert and in bed, you're actually holding a lot of tension.

And sometimes you might notice that you almost feel like you're sort of holding yourself up above your mattress just to touch yeah

and what that is teaching you that exercise is to remind your body how to release tension and how to relax oh okay so you come out of the tensing in a more relaxed state than you were than you went in yeah well give that a go it's a nice feeling actually yeah do you do it I've done it I've done it in the past yeah

okay it really works And as you saw from John's facial expressions whilst he was doing it, it looks cool as well.

Mad.

Do it in the dark.

Yeah.

Do it lying down.

Because it is doing my head in.

It's not enough.

It's not enough sleep.

There's also a very I'm going to become tearful during Tuesday's made-up game.

You can.

It's a tricky one.

You can also.

I've got a meditation playlist on

Spotify.

But music.

Yeah, yeah.

So what sort of music?

Like Brian Eno.

Oh, okay.

It's really...

I don't allow anything on it that would wake you up.

Okay.

So presumably no lyrics?

No lyrics.

Okay.

I've never really had

trouble getting to sleep.

I mean, my son in particular was a terrible sleeper when he was little.

So I've experienced long bouts of sleeplessness.

But when he did eventually nod off, I could nod off quite quickly.

But this is...

But what's happening is your body over the past like three years has got used to regular adrenaline peaks when you do socially distance sports bar and Bubs makes you laugh.

Yeah.

And when you do this podcast and i make you scared

and those are your adrenaline peaks throwing a cymric connection here and there yeah you're all over the place man but now your adrenaline is peaking at 10.

your adrenaline when you arrive at the premiere in

is peaking at midnight the two the two pint problem i've never had that before

If I was 25 and I had two pints, I would just go to bed and the next morning it was like nothing had happened.

I had two pints of Guinness with Jim and that was it.

That's because you're an elite athlete now.

Yes.

There is that.

There is that.

In this order, try 10 pints, not two.

Try meditation.

Try the scrunching up your body thing.

Try Brian Eno.

Eggie's coming to the show in Liverpool.

Eggie.

Yeah, I guess.

You have to drink water with him.

Wow.

This is big.

Big people coming to the Liverpool show.

Really?

I mean, Eggie obviously is the headliner.

Yeah.

Are we getting Eggie on?

I mean, I think we should.

We'd be bang up for that.

Imagine if she's got a Cumory Connection.

With Eggie and Eggie was there.

Well, that's the dream.

I did think about that on the bike on the way in.

Yeah.

Eggie is the kind of connection.

But it's like saying, I'm going to school with an overhead kick.

Yeah.

The danger is you end up looking like an idiot.

Yes.

And we're not doing the Cumber Connection on tour, of course.

No, we're not, Dave.

That's why I said that.

Right.

To sow seeds of doubt.

Dave, something that's going to make Ellis a little bit more excited and may help him struggle to know.

We're not doing

John Wynns again.

We are nearly there, John.

But there have been mistakes made.

No,

no.

According to my sheet, Dave,

we are four minutes into a mistake.

Yes, we are actually six minutes away from magic.

Okay, so is it John Wynns again, Dave?

Should we only take ten minutes?

Shall we work with you?

The mistake makes more mistakes.

This has better be Ian Rush on the line, Dave.

Again.

Again, no.

It will be more impressive to you than Ian Rush.

Do I believe that?

No, yeah.

Actually, I think in

current state of mind, yes.

Yeah.

Let's do a bit of John Wins again.

John wins again.

Oh, John wins again.

John wins again.

John wins again.

Wins again.

Wins again.

Dave just coming back from his second mistake of the day.

It's not a mistake.

It's an oversight.

I thought it'd stretch my legs.

What was his first mistake?

Oh, I sometimes forget to grab a piece of paper for John wins again.

I'd barely say it.

Oh my god, Dave.

If you've got one job on Alberto Baggio

in World Cup 94, is it?

Okay,

obviously there are some tour-related losses.

But I'm not counting the fantastic experience had by us and our audiences.

Yes, good.

Dave.

Yeah.

When I travel on tour, I have certain cosmetic needs.

What's in your cosmetic bag?

Question one.

What's in your cosmetic bag?

Question two.

Shampoo.

Shaving foam.

Moisturizer.

Shaving foam.

Yeah, I will shave my neck.

Because it's patchy, so I just tidy it up down the bottom.

Yeah, I've noticed actually, it's neat.

Why don't you just use an electric razor like you use for your face?

Because it doesn't get close enough.

Huh.

There you go.

Never met someone who just shaves their neck.

No, sometimes I with an electric razor, to be fair, but sometimes I'll just do it.

It's a straggler.

I'll do it with an electric razor.

Yeah, well, it's just, it's a pity.

So if I came into your room in the morning, you would be there with sort of like a white collar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that's what my kids think shaving is, actually.

Moisturizer deodorant, obviously.

I mean, the classics, really.

Big into the moisturizer/slash serum combo at the minute.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave's got a beautiful self-care routine before he goes to bed with his serums.

So it's a moisturizer, and then you leave it a few minutes to soak in.

Bang, serum, floss.

I love to floss.

Alice loves to floss.

Well, I always bring my own face swash in one of those little travel bottles

because I need special face wash because I've got sensitive skin.

I left it in a travel lodge.

That's not you.

Well, this has now happened twice.

The reason is...

Are you a drug addict?

The reason is, I go shower,

out, towel-dry, deodorize, moisturize, dress, brush teeth.

Down for breakfast.

Yeah.

I come back, I toilet, I cleanse,

I pack, I go.

but I leave the little travel bottles on the little platform in the shower.

Yes.

This happened on the howl diesel.

I always buy.

I always remove it, it always comes out with me.

Well, that's this is the thing.

They need to come out with me.

Yeah.

So I had to buy more travel bottles.

I'm staggered.

I know.

That's not you.

But at least because of the system, I've only lost 10 pumps of face wash.

I haven't lost 200 mil of face wash.

But it is a loss.

Face Face wash loss.

Yes.

You know when you saw something and it unsettles you?

I thought I knew you.

I know.

I thought I knew myself.

And unfortunately, we've got to follow it up with another Budget Hill-based loss, which is one in the eye for me in the John Robbins versus the More Money Than Sense Boys debate.

Because I got into the premiere in at midnight,

the night before last.

and someone had clearly been smoking cigarettes in the room and it absolutely reeked.

In a good way.

But no, not in a good way.

I was thinking as I lay there, I would rather people were smoking now in the room than had been smoking here six hours ago because it's got that heavy, warm, nicotine sort of miasma as opposed to, you know, the beautiful, delicious, enduring smell of fresh cigarette smoke.

And they didn't set off the alarms, people smoking at the wind, don't we?

I don't think those alarms do anything.

Sock over the alarm, student style.

Well, you know, as a man who's vaped in every hotel room he's ever been in,

I can tell you those alarms don't do a thing.

They're there to

detect smoke.

Because they tell you

that if you have a shower and the doors open, you can set the alarm off.

But if they went off for every shower, vape and cigarette, they would just constantly be going.

It'd be like doing a Zoom in Dave's house.

Oh yeah, that would be a disaster.

So I tried to get sleep for half an hour and then I was annoyed annoyed that I'd not just immediately said, can I have a different room?

So then I got dressed and went to reception and they did, in fairness, give me another room and were very apologetic, yes.

Did you get like a sort of upgrade?

No.

Oh.

But he is now back on 20 a day.

Yes, big time.

Do you want to say when I got into my budget hotel rather than named the brand?

Not really, because I've already named Travel Lodge.

Say it anyway.

Give us the option.

No, I'm not going to give you the option.

I'm not going to give us the option.

No, why would he?

Because you said one

thing that happened.

Okay.

God,

well, you're losing 2-0.

I get emotional.

You do, Dave, because you've got a lot vested in this.

Yeah, it's rare that you're 2-0 down and it's getting to me.

Well, here's a big plus, Dave, and I know that's one that you've shared too.

In the past two weeks, I announced my London Marathon charity of choice.

Yes.

I'm running for Standing Together Against Domestic Abuse and a pretty optimistic target.

I thought

a step.

I thought your target was insane.

Did you?

Yeah.

Why?

Because when I did London to Brighton for British Heart Foundation, I set a target of two and a half grand.

But you didn't tell anyone about that.

No, I did.

And I did a lot of tweets and stuff and Insta posts.

And in the end, I got over the line by saying that I would match it and give the money to Dr.

M's, the youth centre in Carmarthen.

And

my target was two and a half thousand quid.

So 42 grand, I thought.

I can't put my finger on why you failed so terribly.

but have you smashed the target already no

i mean it's a very optimistic one it's a pound a step because i reckon 42 kilometers is about 42 000 steps

strides yeah uh and i'm almost at the halfway mark that's but the response absolutely phenomenal i was incredibly humbled incredibly proud and incredibly thankful so that's a win

Maybe just people like you more.

Good.

That's huge.

And you should be very proud of that.

Well done.

Thank you.

And thank you for your kind donations as well.

Don't worry about it.

I will.

No, no, no, you don't have to, Dave, because you're also running for your charity

for Prevent Breast Cancer.

Prevent Breast Cancer, yes.

A charity close to my heart.

And also doing fantastic in terms of donations, which I was very surprised by

happy about.

And Harry Stiles did a marathon at the weekend in two hours, 59 seconds.

Okay.

How much money have you raised, Dave, so far?

Last time she had about four and a half.

All right, people like you more than me as well.

That's good.

I'm glad.

Glad to know where I stand in the pecking order.

I think maybe we just need to look at your PR sort of style.

No.

Because the last time you plugged our tour, it was just you playing Bert Jansch with no link.

No, there was a link there.

There was a link in bio.

A link in bio isn't, that's no good.

How else do you do a link on Instagram?

On put the link in the story.

On stories, you can do a link.

Oh, yeah, I didn't do a so I did a post to get more

to get more truction.

Yeah, exactly.

So we need attention on your marketing style

my

posts get more truction than my stories yeah yeah but you need to give people if you're giving them a call to action don't add in an extra step

I actually think this is a mistake by Instagram.

Why you can't put links in a post?

In a reel.

Yes.

In a reel, I think.

And I don't know why they're, because they're clearly linked to the bottom of the bottom

to draw attention to Instagram's fallibilities.

That's true.

You're like the beta tester.

Yes, again.

Dave, what are we at?

2-1, lost.

Curry with Robin.

Chalk it up.

Good stuff.

What did you eat?

Dosas.

Chili Panier.

Did you S yourself?

No, but it was that place.

Why is that rice smile appeared again?

Because

it was the place.

Dave, I already talked about this.

That got...

You talked about Sing yourself in Regents.

Got a none out of five hygiene rating.

That made the local press.

It has since

got its act together.

But I think my stomach held memories of the none out of five.

It was probably something like they didn't have a door between the enough doors between the toilet and the restaurant or whatever.

So they had to put in a door and that bumped them up from zero.

I don't know what it was.

On Caroline Street, aka Chippy Lane in Cardiff,

in the Southwest Echo, years ago when I was a student.

I remember seeing a photo of a rat in one of the chip shops and it was about the size of a Toyota Garrett.

Absolutely.

It was a hatchback-sized rat.

See, you never know if the inspector's just come on a rat day.

Yeah, and it made me feel weird, man.

But I did feel ill walking in.

But it's absolutely delicious and fine and wonderful.

But it's a very good idea.

I got a psychological thing, yes, Dave.

Have they changed their name since the zero out of five pressworthy hygiene rating?

That would be the first thing I did as a business because I don't know whether you can recover from a pressworky zero out of five.

It only just opened.

Even worse.

I know.

You know, it just closed down and reopened and it's the same people running it.

It's very popular.

It's very delicious.

But anyway, so I can't tell whether the impact of the curry was psychosomatic.

There was no terrible impact.

Yeah.

I mean, Robin and I were both, there was a bit of

messaging back and forth going on.

In the night.

Just about guff volume.

Yeah.

But it wasn't sickness.

Yeah.

But we would just, I was just glad I lived alone.

Yeah, that is a moment where that is fantastic news.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There used to be a restaurant I liked that once I realised was nought out of five, I couldn't go in there again.

Because you just think, have they got their act again?

It's weird that you don't have to display those things.

I do in wheels.

Do you?

That's good.

Legal requirements.

Do you not?

Leading the way.

No, you don't.

Interesting.

I always thought that was

mandatory.

Okay.

It's too old.

Hang on.

Tight.

I had a day at the fair.

What does that mean?

I went to the fair.

All right.

I bought hot sauce candles and a diffuser.

What sort of fair was this?

It was a mixture of rides and old chaps next to steam engines.

What sort of fair was this?

Hooker Duck and all that kind of caper.

Like a 19th century fair.

Yeah, like a sort of local fair.

Is it F-A-I-R, that type of fair?

Or F-A-R?

F-A-I-R.

Okay.

There were

classic cars.

They're all like dodgeums.

Yes, Dodgems.

It was a bit of everything.

It was all things.

It was all things to all people.

Did you go on the Dodgems?

No.

No.

But I did, you know, just checked, did a few independent health and safety checks.

Yeah.

The Dodgem's home to one of my favourite

sort of daft myths.

Oh yeah, there was dog mess in the car and the car went really fast and then the dog mess flew in his face.

What?

Are you what?

I don't remember that one.

What, that dream you had?

David Jesus.

The worst urban myth in the world.

The two great urban myths are the Razorblades in the Swimmer Pool and the Dog Mess in the Dodgems.

I've never heard of Dog Mess in Dodge.

Oh, yeah, because they accelerate so quickly and then they went in his face.

It's just quite a tame urban myth in the grand scheme of things.

Oh yeah, you want dog mess in your face, do you, Dave?

Of course I don't.

Of course I don't.

But in terms of stuff making your birthday in October.

In The Witches, children smell to witches like dog mass.

That's such a troubling.

Yeah.

Lovely little detail, though.

Okay, where are we at now, Dave?

If we were still on live radio, I could pub that urban myth out on the texts and tweets and see if other people had heard it.

Am I going to be forced to do that?

And no one would have heard it.

It just did something your mate said to you.

Go on.

Okay.

Something has happened with my mobile phone provider.

Yeah.

Who was a part of a merger?

Right?

Okay.

I thought that would mean I get double the coverage, double the masts.

Yes.

You'd think so.

Turns out what it means is, oh, they've got too many masts now, so they're just going to close half of them.

Oh, they've got some maths.

Yeah.

So the signal on 4 and 5G, when it says 4 and 5g on my phone and it doesn't work.

Yeah.

So you're like, you're lying.

She's lying.

You're lying to me.

And you're lying to me.

You're a businessman.

So everything is now gone out of the window because I can't trust it.

Yeah, just

confused faces from the production team.

That was Jimmy Nale from a song from 1992.

He had a big hit.

In a doubt, it's playing a scene.

She's lying.

Yeah.

It's a good tune.

It falls off as well.

Never mind.

Don't worry.

Don't do that.

So

why

do things get worse?

Because the phones are getting better.

The phones are getting more powerful.

The operating systems are upgrading.

And the signal is getting worse because because this country is terrible at infrastructure.

It is terrible.

That's what I didn't say to Adrian.

I didn't do it.

Because I want to carry on loving Britain.

But we just don't get stuff done quickly enough.

And this isn't a network issue.

I think all networks are guilty of not keeping up the pace as much as they should.

Have you tried turning it phone off and on?

Yes.

Well, they had to rip out a lot of the Huawei stuff because of this.

sort of that scandal.

Yeah.

And they haven't replaced it because this country can't do infrastructure.

You had a a Huawei phone, no, but there's Huawei tech in all of the masts, right?

Yeah, so they're worried about spying anyway.

So now we're now at three all.

Oh, crumbs.

Okay, so yeah, bad final.

And I'm afraid to say it's up to you to decide.

You see,

you've never had a loss, as in like an overall loss.

No, it doesn't feel like that.

No, well, it's because you

feel like that because of your mindset.

Okay,

for the first time since 1998,

I have bought a new fragrance.

This is huge.

I am listening.

And the noses of Dave and Ellis.

Dave is a fragrance expert.

Ellis has smelt things in the past.

You decide whether it's a plus or a minus.

Oh, big question.

Because I've taken a big risk.

Big question I've got to ask.

What have you been wearing since 1998?

CKB.

Since 1998?

Yeah.

And it served me well.

And a lot of people say, when they get close enough to smell me, they say, oh, wow, that's you smell really great.

You smell like the past.

Yeah, but it's a good fragrance.

Yeah.

You smell like the Millennium Dome.

So

I'm going to bring my.

First, I'm going to bring my sort of lower neck, upper chest to Dave.

Okay.

And I want you to be totally honest.

It already feels like a loss.

And if you get any notes,

if you get any notes on the nose, I want you to say what they are.

Okay.

So I've taken my headphones off.

Oh, I've just unplugged mine, but

okay, Dave, are you ready to smell?

I think so.

Wow.

Okay.

Notes, Dave.

Oh, I'm not very good with notes.

It's sweet.

It's floral, but not in a bad way.

Okay.

But there's an intelligence there.

Is there?

But do you like it?

I do like it.

Okay.

I do like it.

Go to Ellis.

I'm going to give you a noise as my reviewer.

Okay.

So you

tell me about the kind of guy who, if you couldn't see me,

you're expecting to see when you open your eyes.

David Gandhi.

Really?

Yeah.

I think that's a Gandhi smell.

There's a sweetness there, which means you're confident in your sexuality.

Empathy.

Okay.

I have an empathetic lover, is what I would say.

Yeah.

Okay, well, can I shock you?

What?

Because

when you close your eyes and smell that smell and imagine that man,

when you open your eyes,

that man is a woman.

Yeah, well, do you know what?

I did think that, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with that.

Because so many fragrances these days are unisex.

It's a ladies' fragrance.

I've got a unisex one.

But it's ladies'.

This is ladies.

Bought for me by Matt Lucas.

Very nice.

I used to smell the same on Fancy Football League.

Interesting.

It suits you.

Did Did you think it was a lady's?

Do I smell like an old lady?

No, that's the thing.

No, you don't.

It smells a touch feminine, but not in a bad way.

You smell like an old lady in a fast car with a gun in the glove box.

But I don't see.

I don't smell like you're swimming behind me in the slow lane at a local leisure centre.

So I'm putting it straight in the wing, Colin.

It's

smells.

Wait.

Where.

What is it, if may I ask?

Oh, Terry.

Can you tell me in.

Yeah, I'll tell you in the break.

You know, we don't have breaks, but we'll have a break.

Great.

But I had a great long chat with the ladies at a certain fragrance department.

Yeah.

And we had such a nice time.

They told me about layering, Dave.

Oh, nice.

That means two fragrances.

They're just trying to sell you two fragrances, John.

Well, you can't.

The lady there layered, and she showed me on a little bit of card how you layer because she wanted the ood of one and the citrus of another.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you what, when I smell it, I ood.

I mean, okay.

What's brought upon the big change?

Well, no reason.

I think this is quite expensive because perfume has gone mad expensively.

Well, unless you go to a dupe website.

A dupe website.

What dupe dupe.not?

Not dupe the brand.

Dupe the brand is obviously a late 90s aftershave.

Yeah.

But I think it's called a dupe, isn't it?

Where there's these websites that kind of imitate.

Oh, D-U-P-E?

I think so.

I'm not sure, but it is.

Are you saying we should buy knockoff first?

It's perfectly legal.

You're able just to go and get

a very faithful representation of other fragrances.

So it's all above board.

It costs a quarter of the price.

Lou Sanders does it.

Okay.

I introduced the website to Lou Sanders.

I've never heard of that.

Yeah, I get it a lot on Instagram.

There's loads of websites that do it now.

So you just got to try and pick the one because it's prohibitively expensive.

It's mad.

it's mad, like taking

sort of paint samples into BNQ and saying a bit of that please.

But they're really good,

they're really good, they get very close.

I think it's going to be CKB for the day-to-day, yes, you know, for my business meetings, yeah, for uh, for running, inspirational talks, inspirational talks.

Yeah, it's going to be this perfume for

you know, hot dates, hot dates, and

sex with dignitaries,

Right.

Ambassadesses.

I'll get a call from Kier Starmer.

John wins again.

He's like.

Alice, the Dutch.

John, the Duchess has arrived.

Yeah, any members of the Duchy?

Yeah.

Any dames?

And any winners of an egot?

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

But not just Oscar or Emmy.

It's got to be an egot.

And then I'll get the good perfume out.

Huge congrats, John.

4-3.

He wins again.

Unbelievable.

Great.

Well done.

Very well done.

We must move on because we now do have a special guest which I believe, I believe, will make Alice more excited than anything else we've done since the great reset.

Dave, I think it's up to you to introduce our guest to Ellis.

Yes, we had an email from Alex, which appeared in the previous Bureau de Change of the Mind.

So if you want to hear the email that Alex sent in, you'd have to jump onto BBC Sounds and listen to the most recent Bureau.

And Alex talks about that he owns a pub, and one of his regulars was in there the other day.

And Alex got very excited by the fact that this regular has designed coats slash parkers slash jackets for Liam Gallagher on the most recent Oasis tour.

Liam's now worn one of this designer's jackets for seven of the gigs that they've done so far.

We've tracked this man down, Alice.

And we have him waiting on the line to talk to us about Kagul's slash smocks slash jackets.

This is huge.

The reason I'm energetic is because I'm probably as equally excited as Ellis here.

Am I able to vape at this juncture?

No, John, you listen because you could learn a thing or two as well.

Oh, I love Kaguls, Dave, because I love to hike.

I love to dress.

I love the British landscape.

That's what someone said to me after the Oasis show, that Australian guy in the tube.

Have you been on an upper mountain?

However, the Kagul in the city centre, yeah, the Kagul in the pedestrianized area is your domain.

In the football away end.

In the football away end.

Like in our own time, during the Oasis comeback, Ellis and I have texted each other about the various clothes that Liam Gallagher wears.

Yeah, and I refuse to believe we're the only two doing that.

Oh, no, big industry.

It's caught the imagination of a nation.

Let's talk to the imagination that came up with the Kagul of a Nation.

Yes, absolutely.

So we have design director for fashion brand ymc is sean oh hello we have sean on the line to talk to us not so much about brand of course because we are on the bbc but about kagules about jackets and about designing them for liam gallagher sean

two things can i text to you in a personal capacity off air that's question number one

uh question number two is the coat or the kagul that liam's wearing on stage he tends to be he tends to wear the same ones from the photos i've seen is that an off-the-peg ymc number or did he did did you actually involve him in the designing of it good question oh well i'll start with the first question i would say you could have my number let's see how this chat goes

and make sure you're not a complete psycho and then number two um i would say so he pulled off the peg so he actually came into the store and bought it off the peg uh i think it might have been around april time of this year so he just bowled in there leaned out of the squag.

I don't even think he tried it on.

I think he just got a size large.

And then

because I'd sort of briefed in the staff, I was like, if he does come in, you've got to tell him the story of how it sort of all came about.

Which was we were designing this thing for like a year and a half ago, January 2024, well before the announcements of the Oasis Reunion.

And we were sort of looking at sort of clone from the 90s.

And this parker that we developed, the bonehead jacket, actually came from one he previously bought called the Pala Poncho.

And we used that as a sort of rough shape.

And then we chopped it in half.

And we're like, oh, yeah, I think Liam Galler would wear this.

I think, you know,

this is a jacket for Liam.

When he bought it off the peg, did you know it was going to be the one he was going to wear on tour?

Did you have any?

No, didn't have a clue.

It was, there was no contract, no conversation.

He bought it, and then that was that.

And it was only until the Edinburgh, one of the Edinburgh shows, I think the first one he decided to adorn it.

Did you close the shoproom to come come in?

No, no, he just comes in.

This is a lot more relaxed than I thought.

The situation, I thought this would have been a contracted deal where, for a certain number of shows, Liam is either being paid or whatever way is

in for the long haul and has to wear it for a certain length of time on stage.

But it's just he's just doing whatever the hell he wants to do, which is quite cool.

Yeah, I think you might be assuming that Liam cares as much about his kugles as you care about his kiggles.

I think he just buys a nice kiggles.

Look me in the eyes and say that again.

And I will look you in the eye and say that you have been poisoned by foolishness.

Sean, can I just ask about the cultural rise of the Kagul as a fashion item?

Because I wonder it is, when you think about it,

it is especially a big deal in those areas of

Wales and England where it rains a lot.

So is this an example of like clean living in difficult circumstances where people were wearing kagules because it rains a lot?

Yeah.

And then they go, well, let's make the thing I have to wear that's practical as fashionable as I can.

Yeah, definitely.

I mean, obviously, like the parker sort of moves through, yeah, very question.

The parker obviously starts in the sort of military world.

Yeah.

You know, the M51 being like the

fishtail parker that sort of everyone's done an interpretation of.

And then I guess, I guess, probably the move, sort of modern movement, really sort of when it first sort of appears in sort of a fashion context where, you know, you're sort of wearing your dapper suit and then you took the park on top of that.

And I think

quadrophenia and all that sort of jazz.

Liverpool fans going away to Europe in the late 70s wearing Peter Storm cagles.

That was a big one, starting the casual scene.

Now, Peter Storm is a brand I remember from Scouts.

Yeah.

And it's basically like wearing a bin bag because you sweat and feels awful.

But Liverpool and Everton fans made that fashionable.

Yeah.

Because they were wearing sportswear that you could only get in Europe.

Right.

Because they were playing against Paris Saint-Germain or they're playing against Roma.

So they were going to cities that sold, and they were going to, you know, when they were playing German clubs, they were getting adidas trainers and bringing them back.

So, Sean, another question for you.

I'm not thinking about specific brands here, but if I go to an outdoor shop, and I want to get a really good waterproof, breathable hiking jacket, I'm looking at probably between 150 and 200 quid for a good for a good one.

Not like the best fanciest one on earth, but a good one.

Yeah.

Ellis recently turned up to a show

with a Kagul

that cost 320 quid in the sale.

So what percentage of that price is just paying for a brand name?

Because it's no better, I guarantee no better in terms of the build quality and the waterproof than the one I get from my outdoor brand.

Okay, well, that's a good question.

So basically, I would say that your sort of tech, your normal outdoorsy brand.

We're going to start talking about technicals.

We could talk about, we could talk a little bit about technicals, don't we?

How much in the trenches you want to go on this chat and whether or not

your listenership are going to actually start putting it in.

My friend Stu is going to love this.

He's one of my great Kagul chatters.

Well, let the man talk technicals.

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

But I would say sort of typical high street outdoor company, not to name any companies, like they would probably be going for, you know, proper seam sealing.

And the thing is, they're doing that en masse.

So, you know, they're putting in a production order of 10,000 plus pieces, you know, probably into the hundred thousand.

So therefore, the bulk price comes down on fabric and make cost.

And that means your end retail can come down.

Whereas like a brand like us, we're quite niche.

You know, we only produce, like, we're only doing an extra run of this bone egg jacket, 70 pieces.

and so we work with try we try to work with you know some of the best mills for instance we work with like an italian mill on the bone eg jacket um your sort of high street uh we wouldn't call them a competitor but they probably work with far east fabric not to say that that's uh you know a poor quality but it's en masse you know it's economies of scale it's economy of scale you're ordering a million meters whereas we're ordering a hundred meters.

So Ellis is paying for rarity as well.

Yeah, it's rarity and it's, you know, we're working with like the best manufacturers.

And it says, you know, most of our stuff's produced in Portugal, not too far away.

So

because

he had a deal with Stone Island and he's had a deal with Burkhouse as well.

So does he have a deal with YMC or does he just go into the shop and no?

No, we've never ever done that.

It's never really been a YMC thing.

It's kind of, we're kind of, you know, a little bit more of a subculture brand, I guess.

And I don't know, there's something, something quite nice, the fact that he comes comes in and buys his stuff it's kind of a mass kudos to us that you know him and a few other people are that much into the gear they come in I mean we'd love to gift him some stuff do you know what I mean but he just he comes in it's obviously nothing to

play it cool man geez

honestly if you saw this guy's social media PR strategy you wouldn't be gifting him anything

he'd tag you wearing a different brand no that's simply not true that's the old me listening don't laugh as loud Dave It validates his point.

There's a bit of truth there.

Maybe there's a deal that can be struck because I'm still trying to get some tickets for this weekend.

Still can't get my hands on any of the stuff.

Listen, John.

Listen, you guys have got in-roads.

You know, it's BBC/slash music.

Oh, tickets for Oasis.

Well,

surely if your people call Liam's people and say, I designed your coat.

That's mad.

He's going to get you on stage and say, oh, it's the cult vibes in the air, Liam.

What do you see?

So, in terms of the impact of Liam Gallagher, because Ellis mentioned

outside of this room.

Well, the impact of Liam over the past six months, I'd say, because you're right.

You know,

there's been points where he's been very popular.

There's been points where he's barely been doing anything and no one has really even paid attention.

He's a great coat wearer of his generation, though.

And you can't take that away.

Well, the impact of Liam wearing a coat of a certain brand.

So over the years, Ellis mentioned Burghaus.

There was Sassafra, which I know that sales went through the roof when he wore a Sassafras jacket at the Manchester gig, at the One Love gig in Manchester.

Is it the Awake NY 10C jacket that you wore at the beginning?

Is there a really tangible impact in terms of the popularity of a brand after Liam Gallagher has worn it?

Or is that just more in my own head?

And actually, everything stays the same and there's no real kind of knock-on effect from everyone seeing Liam on stage in a certain branded jacket.

Yeah, well, I mean, obviously him wearing that 10C one, it was what did you call it?

The camouflage Johnny, it obviously didn't inspire you to go in to go and buy it.

So I don't know how much of an impact has, but I know, in all honesty, there is a Liam Gallagher effect.

I mean, there's these guys who, whatever he, hear, whatever he wears, whether sunglasses, hats, jeans, jacket, they will go out and buy that.

Whether or not, I think they probably have like a...

um you know probably a shrine to lg somewhere in their basement but they it's a thing you know

i'm sorry

yeah, I don't know, yeah, maybe.

Yeah, I'm quite lucky.

I've got a basement of the kids to go down there.

So you said you've made a run of

70 of these.

There's the one he wore.

Do you have to be careful in the because if suddenly you get popular

and you think, well, we could do a thousand of these, do you then have to kind of cut back on your potential profits because you want to remain sort of in demand?

Yeah, definitely.

We don't want to saturate the market.

And we also don't want to sort of, you know, sell our souls just for, you know, just for just for some money.

But why don't you sell your coats for some money?

Outside of your brand, what would you say is the totemic jacket of this style?

What's the high watermark of the

Oasis Arena Kagoul?

That if you walked in to see Oasis,

the crowd crowd would part,

giving you a corridor from the back to the front, and they would applaud as you walked past.

Oh, that's a good question.

I would say, I think the one that you'd get a lot of props from would be.

Now, I know there's a lot of stone aisle heads out there, but actually, there's one that Liam wore as a helmet lang piece.

I think it might have been from the Knights, has like this white fur around the hood.

He wore it in one of his music videos.

You probably know which one it is.

I can't remember the name of it.

And there was a black one with a white foot and a white one with a white foot.

Now, they're so hard to get a hold of.

That would be the one.

And I don't remember the music video.

He was

Songbird, I think.

He said, Two experts on Oasis and Coates.

You have to name the video.

Sitting under the tree with the acoustic guitar and the song.

Yeah, that's the one.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah.

The white one he wore at Glastonbury.

Incredible.

Yeah.

And I think there's something about wearing a white parker because that is uh, yeah, you know, you can't be going on

it.

Exactly, yeah.

Um, here's a question, a non-Kagul related question,

Sean.

Will you go out with me?

What's happened?

What's happened to trousers?

Trousers are now absolutely massive, Sean.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

I mean, they're actually my trousers, and they're pretty,

they're pretty, they're pretty big.

If you see them, they are big trousers, Sean.

When's that going to end?

This isn't a fan.

I think that's a good thing.

I've certainly gone much looser.

But I mean,

I went into

a clothes shop I like, and I was talking about this with a guy, and he said, He said, I don't even particularly like it, but the teenagers, they're like nine feet wide trousers that a 17-year-old kid could wear.

But it was like that in the 90s.

It was like that.

In the 96, it was like, you know, water being sucked up from puddles to the thighs.

Yes, I remember that.

Yeah, that is the vibe.

Everyone's sort of, you know, I say say the kids, but yeah, I mean, because I'm in my mid-30s now, but yeah, all sort of Gen Zs and the Gen Alpha, they're all wearing sort of the gear from the turn of the millennium, really.

That's where it's all coming from.

I think there was some sort of meme I saw on Instagram where we're on that cycle of, you know, we've gone past, obviously, like skinny jeans were way back there.

And we're sort of, if wide trousers are here, we're kind of here.

We've got a little bit more to go through it until we end up back to

Drain Pipe City.

Yeah.

Probably another 10 years.

Did you say you were in your mid-30s?

Yeah.

Your skin is outrageous.

What's your routine, please?

Oh, you know what?

I think

I'm just blessed with genetics.

There's something about this industry.

A lot of people bizarrely

look really good.

Maybe it's to do with

the Botox.

I'm not sure.

But it's,

yeah, I think it just keeps you young.

You constantly, you're busy and you're knocking around with young people all the time.

So I don't know.

But thank you.

Appreciate that.

Just lovely.

Lovely hair, lovely teeth, lovely skin really good so if you if you marry ellis i'll come round and hang out with you every so often that would be really nice because my wife does not care i was i bought a jumper the other day and i texted seven people and she was a father

well sean thank you for making your young boy's dreams come true and

pleasure if you give your mobile number to our producer he will hand it on to ellis and you can discuss kagules at will and then you can block me

Thank you, Sean.

That was great.

Brilliant.

Thank you very much, guys.

Cheers, man.

See ya.

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Sucks!

The new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

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Winner, best score.

We demand to be seen.

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Okay, we've done it.

That's the best radio we've ever created.

I had more questions.

Did he do well?

But it was more, again,

I think we covered brands quite well there, and quite fairly, but I had more questions about other parkers that he's won because it was a fake London one from 2002.

Oh, you mean as in Liam Gallagher historic Parker Heritage?

I don't think he's the man to ask because he's

lovely man, though.

Lovely man.

You need to go to a Coke museum.

Is there one

somewhere?

I'm sure there is.

I'd love to see that.

You you need to start your coat podcast we should start our coat podcast absolutely uh coat museum that could be my when john retires i could be the curator of a coat museum i'm amazed he's not got a ticket for the oasis gigs yeah

that's that doesn't sound right no something's gone wrong there something something has to be done

we we need to start a fundraiser so we can follow it off of town we need to start reading out some correspondence is what we need to do or do we save it for tuesday Dave?

Where are we?

Blimey.

Let's read a couple out to end the show.

Well, I liked this one very much from Jeff Lloyd.

Hmm.

I don't know if it's that one.

That one is Jeff with a G.

Ah, yes.

It's not that one.

Hello, trifecta of comedic pizzazz.

I was listening to the recent discussion about John's disappointment with a hot bath, and producer Dave used a phrase similar to one that I've been touting as a concept for many years, to the point where I was thinking there might be a cosmopolitan article in it if that's still a thing.

The romantic ideal.

I'm a mortgage broker.

Love it.

I'd often deal with young first-time buyers who were agonising over which house of the ten they'd been to see would be the one to make an offer on.

The one that they'd go for would almost without fail be the one with a real fire.

The youngsters dreamed of a roaring fire, golden labrador asleep on the rug and cuddling up on the sofa watching country file.

The reality is that a fireplace is drafty, dirty and used three times a year this was the genesis of the romantic ideal

and and also the romantic poets of the

of the 19th century and the 18th century where reality dashes fantasy against the rocks another example might be a family picnic on a beach the dream is kids playing happy making sand castles with mum and dad sat in the sun with a wicker basket full of sandwiches and fizzy pop the reality is a windbreaker buckling under the wind sand is all in the food and kids are crying.

When you recognise that this is a thing, you're acutely aware of the disaster that is the romantic ideal.

Other romantic ideals include cheesy chips.

What could be better than chips of cheese?

About a million other things, it transpires.

An overseas stag do.

After three hours, you can't wait to get home.

It's over to you because I'm sure there's loads more.

Kind regards, Jeff.

Yes, great point.

And speaks to also my point against the difference between a budget hotel and a luxury hotel.

Izzy and I have talked about the romantic ideal when it comes to various days out with children.

The beach is a very good example.

I love the beach.

The problem is too much of that kind of conversation is a real downer.

And if you don't try that stuff, you end up not doing anything.

Yes.

And then your life is...

just a life of numb nothing.

So I have been on overseas stackduce.

For instance, I went to Bruges for my friend Tom's staktu and I really enjoyed it.

I'd never been to Bruges before.

But if I'd gone into it with the attitude of, oh, it would just be rubbish and they might not speak English and we won't be able to buy a drink, blah, blah, blah.

I wouldn't have gone.

And I think kids crying on a beach is better than them

not

crying in the house.

Because you've gone out and then you've done something.

I just think it's, I sort of, I know what Jeff is kind of right in that these are all things I recognise.

I I just think it's quite a damaging worldview.

It's that's a lovely attitude, actually, Alice.

Because on the beach with the kids, there will be pockets of the day where you are probably getting a little bit closer to the romantic ideal.

And yes, there will be stressful moments as well, because it can't always be 100%

glory.

And also, we, because I grew up in Pembrokeshire, so we went to the beach an awful lot as a kid because, to be honest, it was in the 1980s, it wasn't a huge amount to do other than the beach until Oakard opened in 1987, but that was very expensive

and then shut down last year.

And I hadn't realized how stressful it was for my mum and dad because, obviously, three kids near the sea, open water,

they're on sort of high alert, which I hadn't realized when I was a little kid.

But now I realize it because obviously I've got two young children, but I'm always glad I went.

So I just think that too much of that kind of thinking is damaging, in my opinion.

What are your opinions, John?

Wow, that's quite enlightening.

Sorry, sorry, Jeff, if that's hurt your feelings.

Well, I am probably somewhere in the middle in that I think if you...

What's being disappointed there is not necessarily reality, it's expectations.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I would pitch it more as fantasy versus reality.

If you have no expectations...

That doesn't mean you think everything's going to be rubbish.

But if you have neutral expectations of everything in life, then you will find you're more often than not not pleased.

Yes, but when I had a painful breakup in my early 20s for quite a long time, I was like, well, I just won't expect anything romantic and then I can never be upset again.

But it wouldn't have been a painful breakup if you'd had less expectations going into that relationship.

I don't know about that.

If you had a problem.

I think then you hide yourself away from opportunity is what happens.

You're like, okay, I'll never get dumped again then.

So I will just.

You're making your same point again.

But what I would say is if you're going into a relationship comfortable in yourself, going, this might be amazing.

This might be awful, but I'm going to give it a go.

I will experience each element of it in the moment.

Then if it ends, you're not losing what you projected onto it.

Because I think the ultimate...

I think that's easier said than done around love.

Yes.

Yeah, but it is doable.

You never said it was going to be easy to avoid.

No, you didn't.

But is it doable at 21?

It wasn't for me.

No, no, I'm sure it wasn't, unless you're sort of the Dalai Lama.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think like relationships.

I've got an ex

relationships are the perfect example of this because when the point at which you meet someone in those early weeks and months is when you are you're most excited.

And what is exciting is what you are imagining and what you are projecting onto that person, which has got nothing to do with that that person who you don't know it's got nothing to do with their dynamic with you which you have no experience

established yet yeah so the things you love about your relationship with Izzy and you with Hannah Dave I bet are completely different from the things that got you excited in the first like weeks and months yes you will love their

support their creativity their wisdom their

whatever it is it's not the stuff that you remember when you met Izzy and you were both losing your minds yeah yeah yeah in a a really nice way great days yeah but i was insane for a bit but exactly so that insanity yeah wasn't real

yes yes i i would agree with that but what you love about izzy

very hard impossible i would say i'm doing my best

so i think as soon as you

stop making other places

other

experiences or people destinations,

then you become become less disappointed when you get to that destination.

It's not what you imagined.

So we have to become our own destination.

Yeah.

I'm married to John Robbins.

And in a sense, how's it going?

It's good.

Good.

Much more balanced.

Much more chilled.

Yeah.

Much less of a roller coaster.

Yes.

Much quieter.

Yeah.

The ceremony was cheap.

It happened in his mind.

So there you go.

So Jeff, actually probably not the response you're expecting there, Jeff, but I do avoid going to the beach because I don't like getting sand in things.

The funny thing with the house is that when we bought our first flat, it was the fourth flat we'd put an offering on because we'd been consumed three times because the London property market is brittle.

And by the fourth one, like, I don't think I'd seen one of the bedrooms.

I was like, yeah, I'll just live there because this process has to end.

Well, but housing is an interesting point because I think I remember Charlie Baker saying to me once, there's no such thing as a perfect house.

And if it falls through, there will be another one.

Yeah.

Because it's not about finding the perfect house.

It's about making the house you find perfect.

Yes.

Or good.

Or great.

I will never move again and I'll be carried out of our house in a coffin, but it doesn't have a garage.

No, but your last one didn't have a garden.

Exactly.

So we're

one one or

you could do one of those things that were the, you know, like Japanese car parks where you drive into a cage

and it lifts it up onto your roof.

I'm sure you get planning permission for that in this country in a heartbeat.

Oh, yeah.

Or down into the basement like Batman.

Are you going to get a basement done?

Basement gave away.

Batcave.

The Ellis Cave.

Buck cave.

Yeah.

Beyond the foot of Lambeth Council.

Do you do butt caves?

Do you sign them off?

Because I haven't got a garage.

Yeah.

Are you going to get a basement conversion?

I'm going to get a butt kiv.

Wow.

Keep all his costumes down there.

A Kagul cave.

His Kagul's all stacked up.

Yeah, for when I do chrome fighting in a Kagul.

Yeah.

Alfred coming out with a different Kagul every morning.

Is he?

Or is he?

Yeah.

I don't know about this one.

There you go.

Interesting talking points.

Great.

Interesting talking points.

We've covered a lot of ground in this show.

What a mixed bag.

But all the bits in the bag were good.

Oh, absolutely.

What a mixed show.

I've learned a lot.

I've probably learned more than I have in a long time.

Talking to Sean.

Sean.

That lit a candle in my soul, Dave.

That was the perfect composition.

I think he found it fine.

I think he found it.

I think he enjoyed it with his face skin.

It would just be interesting as to whether or not we get it.

Will he fire across his number to

producer Michael to hopefully spark up that friendship with you, Ellis?

We'll wait and see.

Yeah.

And he had lovely, curly, whirly hair.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

But also just so successful

quite a young age.

His mid-30s.

Midth creative director of a...

You were the director of content at your mid-30s, Dave.

Don't do yourself down.

Okay, yeah, thanks, John.

You're welcome.

Well done, Dib.

Thanks, Alice.

Okay, folks, we'll be back with you in the Bureau de Change of the Mind.

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