#476 - Explicit Cakes, Sewer Coffee and A Sexual Holiday to Cardigan

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

Make money predicting football?

Now you can nationwide with Cal Shi.

Calci is the only platform that lets you legally trade on real-world events in all 50 states, from football to Bitcoin, the Oscars, and even politics.

If it matters, you can trade on it.

Trade on who wins each game, props, spread, and more.

Legally, nationwide.

Don't miss your shot.

Download the Cal Shi app or go to kalshi.com.

Use code podcast and get $10 when you trade 100.

This is an investment that carries risk.

Calci.com.

I want to talk to you about soft power.

The BBC's already conquered the world as we know it.

Here are just two examples of things I've been told when abroad.

Oh my god, mate, you work for the BBC.

Have you ever been on Call the Midwife?

And just this summer in France, Jeum tourmont le BBC, et les fantastique.

There are actually three other examples I can think of, but Dave specifically asked me not to do those voices on air.

So, if the BBC's conquered Earth, what's left?

That's right.

Space.

Strictly might have begun again on Saturday, but according to a Kalippo field diktat from Director General Tim Davey, the next series will take place at Zero-G, something Craig Revelle Horwood has described as untenable.

As of spring next year, Michael Portillo's 200 Years of the Railways will actually be filmed on Venus, and Ross Kemp remembers Sharon Gate, Explosive East Storylines Uncovered, is going to be put on a golden record and fired to the far ends of the galaxy as a way of introducing human culture to alien life forms.

But where does this fab-inspired obsession with extraterrestrial life leave Ellis and John?

Helen Sharman, the first Briton and Western European woman in space, has said that astronauts are pre-selected for their personal attributes.

Tolerant, laid-back, calm, trained to work as a team.

That reduces the likelihood of conflict, explains Miss Sharman.

And that's why we have been selected to make podcasts 250 miles above the Earth's surface, driven to explore the unknown, discover new worlds, push the boundaries of our scientific and technical limits, and then push further.

And if that means talking to Adrian Childs about why the M4 is the eighth wonder of the world whilst wearing adult nappies in a spacesuit, so be it.

So be it.

So be it.

Take me up there.

I wouldn't mind a little bit of weightlessness in my life.

I imagine someone's already sent a podcast up to space.

I would imagine someone...

Did someone interview Tim Peake from the International Space Station when...

And did that go on a podcast?

Probably.

Well, they're allowed their laptops in the International Space Station so

they can contact their families.

That would imply that the International Space Station has got Wi-Fi.

Where's that coming from?

Satellites.

Yeah.

Oh my god, so you can check your phone in space.

Yeah, well, if anything, you're closer because there's less atmos to get in

better coverage.

Would you need a VPN in space?

That's the big question.

Well, this is why they're not getting anything done, is it, Dave?

They'd have the ID checks up there in space.

It's meant to be very

gone.

I mean, that would be a new story, Dave.

I just meant, John, before you stuck my head in the gutter,

because it's not a country,

what location would it have?

Therefore, you probably wouldn't need a VPN.

I would imagine they would probably go direct inject.

Yes.

They're just straight to the source.

Straight.

You get access to 3pm Premier League kickoffs in space

because it doesn't know that you're in the UK.

So the 3pm blackout doesn't...

Well, you're not in the UK.

Of course not.

I think you'd be all right.

I watched a video on YouTube about what would happen if the sun went out.

But it was taking a...

There's lots of videos like that basically telling you about how terrible it'd be, but it was focusing on all the positives.

And what are they?

So we would move immediately to an international one-time zone.

So it'd be great for business because everyone would be working at the same time.

That's good.

Much better mobile phone signal because the sun interrupts.

But could we survive?

well no you'd all freeze to death instantly right um

but i mean yeah

but you wouldn't need any you wouldn't need bridges because all the water would freeze so you could just lay sort of tarmac yeah you just skid across the river derwent yeah you could skid across the liver river derwent um you just lay roads across the rivers yeah um obviously all of the life in all of the oceans would freeze so they would all die but nice and frosty at christmas nice and and frosty at Christmas.

Yeah.

Difficult to take the positives, I think.

There's a wild parsnip that if you touch the leaves

and subsequently are exposed to sunlight, it can cause chemical burns.

It's this weird sort of

freak of nature, but if you didn't have the sun

that wild parsnip would be safe.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Will somebody think of the parsnips?

Exactly.

And the improved mobile phone coverage.

I think also, podcast from space, in terms of our anecdotes, I...

It would be worse.

Well, yeah, I think

being in space is less interesting than people might think because the only questions are, how do you go to the toilet?

What do you eat?

And what does the Earth look like?

I think there's something...

If you're up there, though, there must be something very majestic about being able to see the Earth.

Oh, yeah.

Like, I don't think I'd tire of that.

No, but you might struggle to get an hour and a half's content out of that.

We're reading reading a lot of emails.

It's majestic.

It's really, really majestic.

I like the majesty of it.

Let's do some mad dads again.

And here's how I go to the toilet and what I eat again.

Yeah.

But yeah, space.

Crazy, eh?

Yeah.

They find it very hard to walk, don't they?

When astronauts, when they come back to Earth, because their bodies have adapted to zero-G.

That does not surprise me.

Yeah,

you're not putting any strain on your ankles for days.

Yeah, I think that's the thing about space.

A lot of the facts are, yeah, that makes sense.

Whereas in the 50s, it was like, oh, what it'd be like when your body explodes.

Will there be aliens up there?

And you're just like, no, it's mainly sort of working and making sure pens are tied to bits of string.

Yeah.

Showering is tough.

Yeah.

Everything's got a very strange metallic smell, according to one article I read.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

And you can go for half a day without seeing your mates.

Yeah.

And then you sort of, you know, you just sort of float past them and go, all right.

A lot of people do say

the majestic nature of whether you saw as you're looking down at Earth.

I think it freaked out.

I think I'd really freak out.

I don't think it would scare me.

That is the ultimate time.

Yeah, I think I'd actually get quite scared by looking down on Earth rather than thinking this is beautiful.

I was thinking, you know, those

troubled people who think the Earth is flat again.

Yeah.

So surely.

Yeah.

About 300 years off.

But surely.

That argument had been one.

How have they come back into play?

Surely the perfect argument against that is say I'm showing you a picture of the Earth from space, right?

And it's got, say, Africa in the middle, it's got the west coast of America, it's got the east coast of America, and it's got sort of the Middle East and the West Coast of Russia on the right.

So you're looking at that disk as a skeptic and saying that's it's a flat disk.

Yes.

Well, surely there are then only two possible images of Earth from space.

It's that side of the disk and the other, and Africa will always be in the center.

But Dave, John, they don't believe that people have been to space.

Yeah, I think that that's false as well.

Right.

So how would they think every image of the Earth from space is made up?

Yeah.

So they don't believe in satellites.

No.

Are you sure?

Well, I mean,

how does their phone work?

Because how else would you explain it?

But plenty of people dispute the humans having gone to space and space travel.

Yeah, but I'm sure people don't think Neil Armstrong stood on the moon.

But I think specifically for people who say that the images we see of Earth are flat.

Let's get them on, Div.

Because

unless the oceans and the continents are on like a conveyor belt going around this disc.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It would be impossible.

It's like a checkout at a supermarket.

It would be impossible to have an image where Africa was in the middle, Africa was on the right or the left.

It would be impossible to have an image of Antarctica.

Yeah.

So why are you never seeing the edge of the coin?

I mean, I'm reasoning with people who don't believe the Earth is speaking.

I believe that the Earth is spherical.

Yeah.

And you have done for nearly 10 years.

Yeah.

And it took a while.

Did you see that YouTube video of the American group of flat earthers who rigged this test to prove that the Earth is flat and they accidentally proved it's round?

Yeah, by like trying to keep a spot on a distance.

Yeah, something in the distance.

Yeah, but I've seen videos of people going up to Buzz Aldrin, who's now a motherfucker.

He punched a guy in the face.

I've seen that video.

He said it was.

You're lying, Buzz.

You're a liar.

Yeah.

What do you do with that to a night of a man who's been in space?

Odd,

odd motives.

Well, we can't connect with flat earthers.

I think we've proved that, haven't we, Alice?

Yes.

But we can connect with the next closest thing, which is people from Wales.

Come on.

And we do that every time.

at all.

It's a bit of fun.

It's a bit of fun that I retract and I distance myself from.

A right to reply to that nonsense, John.

Every single Welsh person I know believes that the Earth is spherical.

Do they?

Every single one.

From shop worker to druid.

I've never met a Welsh flat earther.

And that's a fact.

That's a fact.

But I don't think I've ever met a flat earther.

No.

I can think of it.

I don't think they exist.

I think they're an invention of the mainstream media.

Interesting.

You've kind of played it at its own game there a bit, haven't you?

Okay.

So, yes, every week, Ellis James tries to connect with another Welsh person.

Can he do it in just 60 seconds?

Let's find out in the Cymru connection.

Where did you go to school?

Do you know Daffed Evans?

No.

Come on, mate, you must do.

And then often he will just list a name or three.

Ignoring John's imploring, think like us to

listeners.

All are hoping if he can elevate his strategy to nifty,

he'll achieve the magic 50.

Ellis go

connect.

Last week, Ellis connected with Caller Sam with just seconds to go.

It was edge-of-the-seat stuff, but having scrabbled around for connections in the previous 58 seconds with no luck, Ellis made a last-ditch attempt at connection with John Rostrom.

Q Limbs as Ellis snatched a famous victory from the jaws of defeat.

And that last-minute winner took Ellis's connection rate up to 46%.

Just to put that in some terms, if you were a Premier League manager with a 46% win record, you would probably be mid-table.

You'd be safe as a manager.

You'd be safe.

You'd be as a manager.

You'd be safe.

You'd be safe as a connector.

You wouldn't be safe as a Liverpool manager.

No.

But, you know, you're knocking on the door of Europa League.

Yeah.

Can he build on last week's success and put a solid hat-trick of connections together?

Let's find out.

We have a caller on the line from Wales.

Hello.

Hello there.

There are 60 seconds on the clock.

Let's play the Cymru connection.

Ellis, your time starts now.

Agent School?

45 Archbishop McGrath Comprehensive in Tondi.

Tondy near Brigent?

Near Bridgend.

Do you know Matrice, the son of Comic?

I don't.

Okay, do you know the great

Ryan March who edits Alternative Wales magazine?

My brother would, but I don't.

Oh, okay.

Bridget, Brigen, Bridgend.

Do you know anyone who's involved in Pennabon Football Club?

No.

Ian Tavi runs the Brigen Jacks Football Bus?

No.

Okay, if you went to university, where did you go?

I went to the University of Kent at Canterbury.

Matt Crosby went there?

Yes.

Do you know Matt Crosby?

Yes!

That's nice!

Wow!

To find the connection outside the borders of Wales, which I believe could be a first.

Is it?

We should look into that.

That confused me because when I think of the University of Canterbury, there's the gig at the Gilbenkian.

Isn't that attached to the University of Canterbury?

It's on the campus.

It's on the campus, yeah.

But Pappy's met at Pappy's met at Canterbury, but they're not Welsh.

And I was instantly thrown.

It still counts.

It does count.

It's screwed the Pappy's connection.

Yeah, so we were at university together and I used to hang out with him at Darwin Bar and Keynes Bar.

He was doing theatre, I think, and

doing politics and international relations, good friends with a couple of my other friends, more so, but we were always in that sort of group

sort of second year, third year.

What's your name, mate?

My name's Chris.

So

what was Matthew Crosby like as a student?

Drunk?

No,

always sort of memorable.

It's funny, actually, because I was speaking to a friend of mine saying that I was potentially going to be on this, and he was like, Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, Matt and all the rest.

Oh, yeah, of course.

And I completely blanked the fact that we knew Matt Crosby in university, and it was the same Matt Crosby that you would obviously know.

I just remember he was a funny guy, and I didn't, I didn't even make a connection in my own head.

So, did you know the other puppies?

You know, Tom Parry and Ben Clark would have been in and around, but uh, yeah, they not.

Uh,

that's good stuff.

Did you know, John?

Did you know JPR Williams out of curiosity?

Because you played for Tondie.

Yeah, I definitely have uh been in many a bar with JPR.

Um,

yeah, the Tondi Rugby Club was

like less than a two-minute walk from my house.

Oh, yes, he played for Tondy to the early 2000s.

He did, but he did.

He was still

turning out for the thirds, age 58 or something like that.

That's fantastic.

That's fantastic.

So, do you know any other uh Welsh people that Ellis would know?

You mentioned your brother might have known some other connections.

There are any connections through your brother?

Yeah, so my brother was

a journalist for the Western Mail,

was a normal boring journalist, but actually, as a side gig, was the music journalist.

So, he was at

Michael Michael Took.

He went on

the name of Keith

Carey, which is my uncle's name.

I think because he didn't want to get it mixed up with

anyway, Club Yvo Back, he was at

of course, yeah.

I bet we went to a lot of the same gigs if because we he'd be a similar age to me.

Yeah, yeah, I can't believe you've got access to you had access to JPR.

Who's JPR?

He is one of the greatest fullbacks in the history of rugby union.

And he played for the British Lions and he played for Wales.

He never lost to England and a very good tennis player as well in his youth.

And where are you calling from today?

I am calling from Boston in the United States.

Boston, America.

America.

What are you doing in Boston?

I moved over here in 2016

for work and

met someone and I've stayed ever since.

You fell in love in Boston, USA?

Did you fall in love with the people of Boston?

No, she's Canadian.

As a Bostonian, Chris, what did you think of John's accent there?

Because it distorts his face when he does it.

It's about as good as my attempt at a Boston accent as well.

I'll leave it at that.

What are you doing over there?

Well, my side hustle is that I coach women's rugby for the local universities.

But I sell software.

That's my normal day-to-day job.

Nice.

I needed a positive, Chris.

And I'm so glad you didn't start with where are you, like, where do you live?

You'd have been thrown.

You'd have been...

Yes.

You'd flailing in space.

I don't think I know a single person who lives in Boston, actually.

You kept your head.

I wanted to call after I heard the chap from Maryland that was

doing the Welsh language course.

Well, I'm a Welshman in America.

So maybe that's the right way around.

Yes, yes, yes.

Well, anyway, thank you very much for calling in.

Thanks, Chris.

I'm thrilled to bits with meeting you and also with what that's done for my percentages.

Superb.

Absolutely.

Thanks, Chris.

That is it.

Great stuff.

Well done.

That's fantastic.

A real textbook connection there, I have to say.

Hat trick.

And just nice to have an English connection.

And

maybe that might get played out on Crunch and Crumble.

We never know.

That's a nice idea for as if Radio X would let them do that.

I think they would.

I think.

Dave.

Under the commercial thumb.

Do you reckon?

Well, we'll pass it on.

He whose shall not be named.

Johnny J or John Robbins.

We could just edit out all your bits.

Yeah.

I know do it with like a sort of AI voice.

Or, yeah, or a heavily distorted voice.

Yeah.

Right.

Whilst Ellis gathers himself, we are going to give you an update from,

well, what is it?

A circumnavigation of the UK for a variety of different reasons.

It's Voices from the Road.

It's Ellis and John's Road to Nowhere.

Well, as the coffee remains too hot to drink, I take this opportunity to reflect on a rare moment.

It's a debut services in the landscape of John Robbins.

Birch M62

Eastbound.

Interesting.

Very interesting, actually.

I've got to say the overwhelming sense is that of a corridor.

It's a corridor services.

There is no atrium.

There is no foyer experience.

You are snaked round as if at an expo or a museum.

And

the feel was very relaxed.

I gotta say I'm glad we caught it at low water

because had we come there on a bank holiday weekend, I think space would have been an issue, especially in the toilets which we'll come to.

However,

I've got to think like a traveller.

It's just outside Manchester on the way to York.

Who is stopping there on a bank holiday weekend?

Probably very few, which means we can't mark it down too much for its lack of space.

It's not your

Reading East and Westbound.

It's not your Hopwood Park.

It's not really a destination services.

I think it's intended for those perhaps with bladder or digestive issues because the demographic was elderly.

Hello.

A lot of people in the Costa did look like they were in a Beryl Cook painting, which I thought was very sweet.

But down to the marks vibe, I'm giving it four out of five.

We caught it at low water.

Toilets,

they were clean.

However, the capacity was low.

Very low.

I liked the cubicles.

They also made me question because they didn't have that upper flat toilet seat cover.

They only had the actual seat, which made me think, what's the point in the top bit?

I guess it's for neatness.

But you don't need that inner services.

The toilets, though, because of the lack of capacity, I'm giving three out of five choice.

It's got a PRET, it's got an MS.

You know, it's not giving you your Cornwall pasty coat, it's not giving you your chopsticks, noodles.

There were also showers in the toilets.

There were three showers in the toilets I've not seen before, actually.

So, for

choice, I'm giving it.

They did have the washing machines outdoors, which I like.

I'm giving it three and a half.

Yeah, this isn't their fault.

No, but there were lots of men making noises in the toilet.

Okay, that's not their fault.

That's not their fault.

No,

not

just from having a wee.

The grunting you hear from old men weeig.

And it's a sort of grunt of effort and satisfaction.

Never thought I'd have to push.

So, five, four out of five.

Selection, three and a half out of five.

Toilets, three out of five.

Thanks, Birch.

Hi folks, it's Johnny JR here.

Apologies for the heavy breathing and the sound of the pee being pounded, but I'm seven kilometers into

a 10-kilometre loop around the Great Orme,

which is this beautiful promontory/slash archipelago/slash outcrop in Landudno.

My god,

this has got to be outside of the Alps, the most beautiful run I've ever been on.

And for the first three and a half kilometers, I was joined by

none other than Ellis James

fair play to him

as I'm passed by Kashkai I'm giving it

appropriate regalias

hasn't run since Covid

three and a half k did uphill

constantly uphill and

fantastic shape he's in though was dressed a bit like a dad who's coaching a rugby team in the 70s

when the regular coach has not shown up.

He's wearing sort of tracksuit bottoms.

You know, those ones with the zips up the side and his regular trainers.

Apart from that, I'm very impressed.

But my goodness me, I've seen goats with horns,

big old loopy-loop horns.

I've seen sheep

and I've seen

seagulls around a trawler, which reminded me of that thing Eric Cantenar said.

I thought about creating a meme about Eric Cantenal.

I couldn't be asked.

So we've got 2.85 kilometers to go.

Then it's luncheon,

shower in the dressing room, and then the joyful people of London.

Please give generously.

I'm just getting into the hip crease, Dave.

And that's good.

Sounds like a cat purring.

Oh my.

Whoa!

How's that feel?

That's what you need, Dave.

It feels nice afterwards, doesn't it?

Yeah.

Do you want to explain what the hip crease is?

It sounds like a cricket position.

Yes, well, obviously, elite athletes need to make sure they warm down and warm up properly, Dave.

Yeah.

So I have with me a mobile massaging unit device

in order to just get into that deep tissue, your quads, your calves, your bum, your hips, your hip crease,

your groin, and then finish on the willie and off you go.

Your soul?

Yes, you can massage your soul with one of these.

This is the carry one Dave, the sort of travel size one.

And that's just getting into the rib cage, which they don't recommend, actually.

Unless you needed your heart to be restarted.

Yeah.

So, yeah, because Ellis and I have been for a run, and we feel good about life.

I'm in a sensational mood.

Ellis is in a great mood.

He's told me he's in a great mood three times.

Yeah.

I've had to stop myself because I want to keep saying it.

Talk to me about the run.

Well, why don't you set the scene as to where we are and what we're doing first?

When Intland did not got to Interland No nice and early after the show in Liverpool last night, John had spotted the Great Orm.

I thought I need to conquer that.

He needs to run 10k because of his marathon trainings.

John's doing the London Marathon.

He said, we could go for a run together, Elle.

I haven't been for a run since COVID.

But I thought, you know what, it's a nice day.

Yeah.

I'm going to go for it.

You buy the sea?

We're by the sea.

John was going to do 10k.

I thought, well, I definitely haven't got 10k in me.

Yeah.

I got to the three and a half K mark because obviously we're you w we're running up a hill.

Hit the wall.

The Great Orme is like a big outcrop

from London, no.

So it's from sea level to 160 meters and then down again.

So it's a lot of it's a lot of uphill.

Very important for the uh copper trade about ten thousand years ago, Dave.

Yeah, I know.

Actually, a European, a site of European copper importance.

Yes.

And now it's good for people who are trading for triathlons.

Like I said, I've not been for run for about five years.

The endorphins are sensational.

Yeah, it's great.

I'm in such a good mood.

I keep wanting to ruffle John's hair, stop myself from doing that.

I keep wanting to tap him on the bum and say, well done.

Yeah.

Very impressed at his fitness levels.

Is he good?

Because we hear a lot about, you know, John's improvements.

But he got back before me.

And he ran.

So I just got to about three and a half K and said, actually, I'm going to tap out here and just walked back.

And John was back by the time I'd got home.

Because obviously I was walking home at quite a slow pace.

But we had a nice chat.

Did it bring you two closer together?

Oh, yeah.

Because I feel that's what's been needing over the past few months.

Yeah.

Well, we held hands for the whole thing.

So for three and a half K.

Non-NOW, Giles, we're creating content.

Oh, sorry, this is the day where we respect Giles.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

We said in the van, this is going to be Giles' special day.

For God's sake.

What did he say?

Look how that worked out.

Thank you, Giles.

Thanks, Giles.

So we're going to be so nice to Giles today.

This is a special day.

We're always nice to Giles.

No, but extra nice.

Because we're all petrified of him.

Well, I went home last night.

And if Hannah's listening, which she will be, I don't regret that.

It's good fun to get up with your kids and look after your kids and get them to school.

Yeah, yeah.

So there was an important role that I played there and that was always the plan because we were in Liverpool last night so I wasn't far away.

Yeah.

But I was jealous of you two getting up in a beautiful place like this and going home.

Fantidna's class.

Yeah.

Really nice.

I mean Dave, before you really...

are happy with the phrase, wake up in a beautiful place, we did stay at

a hotel hotel named after a really nice hotel.

Never seen that before.

When I googled it, I thought, oh, I didn't approve this.

But hey, it's nice.

A travel lodge named after the travel lodge.

No, no, no.

It'd be like naming your travel lodge The Ritz.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was essentially...

It's so weird.

We were staying in Hotel The Ritz, but it wasn't The Ritz.

And not affiliated with The Ritz in any way.

And I'm going to hold my hands up and say it needs attention.

The coffee tastes like sewers.

The corridor on the way to my room stank of wetsuits.

And my room smelled of chlorine, but there's no pool.

My sleep.

So what's going on there?

My room had two double beds in it.

Oh, that's always nice.

And four mugs.

For John's three friends.

He's sleeping in the south.

Who's sleeping?

How are two couples sleeping in a normal-sized budget hotel room?

What's going on there?

They're sex people, Lynn.

They're sex people Lynn.

Anyway, so I did have to kind of admit that maybe my budget philosophy went a little bit far.

You know when you're at a budget hotel chain and they always ask you if you've eaten there before?

Yeah.

And what you want to say is, I can work it out, mate.

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

I can work this out.

I've eaten loads.

I've had so many breakfasts.

Yeah.

So I always say, yeah, I have, actually.

But this time, for some reason, he caught me on the hop.

He said, have you eaten with us before?

And I said, no.

The detail with which he took me around the brack.

Cocoa pops, sort of from Great for Kids.

Sort of rice, basically rice krispies, but chocolatey.

Cornflakes, you'll have had Cornflakes before, obviously.

Coffee machine, water, nice and refreshing.

Apple juice, orange juice.

All fruit.

This is a sort of fruit juice zone.

Beans.

You just help yourself to beans.

But it's all fine.

I slept brilliantly.

Oh, that's good.

Oh, the pillows were too bad.

I didn't sleep very well.

The pillows were too plump.

I actually like too thinnies.

But they did have, they were different on each side.

One were Hardy's and one were thinnies.

I discovered that at 5am when I woke up for a wee.

This is the difference.

Being a sort of planner, strategic, motivational sage figure versus sort of a man with ADHD.

He can't get ready.

So talk me through, and this is not in any way a criticism.

I am genuinely interested by a brain that works differently to mine.

Your pillow is uncomfortable, and there are four pillows.

Why is your brain not going, try a different pillow?

I just assume that they'd all be the same because it was a budget hotel.

Also, the kind of pillows I like are so thin.

You never get one of those in a hotel.

No.

So I thought, well, I'm not going to find my dream pillow, so I'll just put up with this with the life that I've chosen.

You could have brought your own pillow.

Charles brings his own pillow.

I brought my own pillow.

Yeah, I think I might

do

that in the future.

You won't, though.

I won't.

No.

I know.

Because sometimes you see a choice of pillows in the wardrobe.

Have you ever seen that?

Yeah.

But there wasn't that.

But even if you had four pillows that were too hard,

by nature, one of them will be the softest.

Yes.

So it's the mental process

that doesn't.

I'm just interested by how other people are.

I don't like to complain.

Anna, I love to suffer.

So here we are.

We're in London, no.

We've run.

We're surrounded, Dave, as you'll be familiar with, by the runner's equipment.

Oh, God, what's happening?

Well, I'm drying out all my sweaty clothes.

But are they the boxes that you ran in?

Yeah, too sweaty.

Inside out.

Yeah.

So we're just looking looking at...

Well, it's nothing.

It's just sweat.

Yeah, we're looking at the danger zone.

We all sweat.

That's yeah.

Confident move.

I've never had any issues in the danger zone of pants.

Have any?

No, I have.

I mean, considering what's gone on in my, you know,

it's amazing, but no, I've always been

like a drum skin.

No, not at all.

John says something very funny when we were having our lunch, which was fantastic, by the way.

Because he said, are you going to do the half?

I said, I am, actually.

I'll put my name down.

I'm going to do it with a friend of the Shawnee McGrath.

And he went, she will smoke you.

Does she run?

yeah and it's really fit really fast I've never been shown caps when running always why tell me why sun in the eyes sweat in the eyes wave goodbyes

I don't mind sweat in the eyes it feels real

there he goes here he goes

John employs a cat to purr on his thighs

I would love to employ a cat to purr on my thighs

uh right so enjoy the show tonight um we're going to stoke Dave, you going home afterwards?

Yes.

Andy and Val have driven me across.

Ah.

What car does Andy Masterman drive?

He is.

What car would you think Andy Masterman would drive?

I reckon.

Cheshire resident, former Tim Magnet.

I think it's like a sort of.

I don't know whether it's secondhand or he bought it secondhand, but I think it's like a 2005 Land Rover.

Volkswagen T-Rock.

Ellis is incredibly close.

Really?

Volkswagen Tiguan.

But Dad got it as a company car, so it wasn't his choice, but he's...

For his own company?

No, he now works for his company.

He's gone back to work.

He cannot stop.

Good for him.

Absolutely.

But he does a couple of days.

But you get the office banter.

Sell, sell, sell.

I saw dad here too when he retired.

He loved office banter, my old man.

Yeah.

Also, Dave.

Back of the head, you must be thinking keeping the old inheritance topped up.

If they didn't go on as many holidays, that is what I would think.

But he's not plowing through the capital as quickly as he was.

Yeah.

And the last thing you want to see is a parent in retirement plowing through the capital.

Use the interest.

By all means, you've earned it.

Yeah,

the interest is in the right conversation.

And the inval.

I'm in such a good mood.

Yeah, Ellis is flying.

Like...

This is what life is all about, Dave.

Yes.

Running around the Great Orn.

Running around the Great Orm.

We're at one of North Wales' great conference centres.

You could feel like this every day if you moved seven and a half hours drive from London.

Yeah, I'm always telling Izzy that, and she doesn't want to hear it.

All right, well, one of you hand back to the studio.

Well,

John, it's John here.

Can I just say you're looking great?

You smell incredible like a lady Andaman, and that's fine because it's 2025.

So just carry on with your consumer broadcasting.

And I got you, buddy.

I got you.

And make an effort.

At the BBC we go further so you see clearer.

With a subscription to BBC.com you get unlimited articles and videos, hundreds of ad-free podcasts and the BBC News channel streaming live 24-7.

From less than a dollar a week for your first year, read, watch and listen to trusted independent journalism and storytelling.

It all starts with a subscription to bbc.com.

Find out more at bbc.com slash unlimited.

Tires matter.

They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road.

Tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack.

Whether you're looking for expert recommendations or know exactly what you want, Tire Rack makes it easy.

Fast, free shipping, free road hazard protection, and convenient installation options.

Go to tireraack.com to see tire test results, tire ratings and consumer reviews.

And be sure to check out all the special offers.

TireRack.com, the way tire buying should be.

That was our update from the Roads of the UK.

Another one of those next week.

And right now it's time for a made-up game.

Yes, time for a made-up game, where each week we play a different game that has been sent in by a listener.

Let's start with a jingle.

And it is the same jingle from last week, which was first played last week from Dave and Katz.

Here we go.

It's a game, it's a game, it's a made-up game.

Here we go again with a made-up game.

Made up about you, for you, the listener.

Dave is Quiz Masterman, he's the mastermind with the master plan.

Hey, Dave, you wanna go far?

John has got a massive brain.

Don't tell him it's just a game.

Ellis, remember, your name is the buzzer.

How much is this called auto trader?

Which US state is my neighbour, Scotland, Notland.

Where's the forklift?

This man's face, horse or plate.

Dragon's Day, H2O.

It's a game, it's a game, it's a game.

It's a made-up game.

Brilliant.

Love it.

Good.

Dave, what's this week's game, please?

Okay, this week's game.

Well, first of all, scores on the doors.

After Ellis's poetic victory in last week's haiku-based made-up game, we're back to juice.

The extra continent catastrophe.

It was the extra continent catastrophe.

Consonant.

Yes.

No, not consonant.

What do I mean?

Syllable.

Syllable.

More heads already gone.

But John...

It's been a tough week, Boggle-wise.

Carry on.

Has it?

Yeah.

You're leading...

Cognitive decline?

Is it the cogs?

It's Gen Z Fingers.

Yeah.

They just, they dance their own dance.

You know when you see like eight-year-olds on those machines at games arcades where you have to jump to do the dance moves?

Yeah.

And you're like, how the hell are you connecting all of those neon pink arrows?

Yeah.

It's like that.

It's like I've stepped on one of those machines.

Sure, I'm coming up with palisades.

Nice.

But can I get like eight, three letter words in half a second?

So is it the type of words that they're...

the sheer speed?

It's the speed.

Young brain struggling to maintain a 10-game winning advantage.

Interesting.

Anyway, in made-up games, you're leading two love in games and one love in sets, John.

So, you have value in made-up games.

Did I win the advantage?

No, it's juice.

Back to juice because of

the syllable success from the haiku game.

This week's game comes in from James.

James says, Dearest, the handsomest chaps on all of radio and podcasting.

I'll take it.

I've become obsessed with old singles charts from the past.

So I have devised a made-up game celebrating the good, the bad, and the weird of pop music with an Ellison John twist.

The game is called, If You Use Your Is, You'll Guess the Years.

Dave will read the, I think we have played a similar game to this, but there's a couple of nice little twists in there, which means it'll be a fun game nonetheless.

Dave will read the top 10 UK best-selling singles from a certain year in the past.

All you have to do is correctly guess which year Dave is listing songs from.

Now, in terms of the way the points will work, to spice things up a bit, the earlier you buzz in, the more points you can win.

So there are a maximum of 10 points for grabs in each round.

And this goes down by each

song name.

So it goes down.

So when...

So say Ellis buzzes in on the first one, he gets 10 points.

I don't get any points.

No.

If you choose in the charts after the year 2000, Dave, I will punch you in the jaw.

Well, no, you shouldn't do that anyway.

You shouldn't do that anyway.

But also, yes, there might be a couple of slightly more modern charts in here, and you should have paid more attention.

What if I scream and scream and scream?

What if I buzz in?

Yeah, I've not finished the rules yet, but go on.

What if I buzz in after three and get it wrong?

You're frozen out for one song.

Okay.

So you're frozen out for one part of the round.

Yeah.

And then you're back.

So it's a risk.

It's a risk to be a bit more.

Buzzing

names your buzzers.

And I will be listening carefully because there will be might be moments here where you're both buzzing after the same song.

So I've just got to be careful with who gets in there a little bit earlier.

So yeah, so

10 points for one song if we're in by one song.

Nine points for two.

Cash prize.

Eight points for three, etc.

So you'll want to buzz in as early as you can to get the most points possible.

But if you guess incorrectly, you are frozen out for the next song.

Whoever correctly guesses the year eventually can get an extra bonus point if they name a song higher up in the charts.

What a lovely, delicious additional bit of gameplay.

Say that again, Dave.

You weren't listening, were you?

No, I was drawing a satellite.

Beaming something to the earth,

which isn't flat.

A rough diagram of the structures of the stratosphere and the toposphere.

And if you want some flat earth sphere.

Yeah, and a flat earther chat was.

That was earlier on in this episode, wasn't it?

Get a flat earther on, Dave.

Get a kind one.

get a flat earther on right uh it's best of five rounds one though i don't want us to look bad sorry dave what was the thing about naming the thing this is nice this john um whoever guesses whoever correctly guesses the year has a chance of getting a bonus point by naming a song higher up in the charts that we're yet to get to okay so if you buzz in like halfway through so you're starting at 10 not one yeah okay absolutely and it but it has to be from that week it's the years it's the years the most bestselling of that year yes okay in the UK.

Are we ready from the official chart website?

So,

you can be daring, you can be risky, but at your peril.

The charts were really interesting between 1962 and the near 2000, in my opinion.

Okay.

I'm drawing a Soviet space station Dave, like which no one knows is there.

Full of cosmonauts.

Yeah.

This will be on the Cara, naturally.

Naturally.

Naturally.

John, you're very autistic, actually.

I'm not.

it's not that's very cylindrical well done that's not what artistic is steve

do that's what

leonardo da vinci's art teacher told him i can do a tube

right already john are you paying attention salvador you'll

tubes are good i'll give you a beat obviously in between each uh each track just to to to buzz in but i'm not giving you that long because it's about you know thinking it's being fleet football it's about the year about the year it's about the year.

Round one.

Here we go.

We're starting at number 10.

Kylie Minogue, hand on your heart.

John.

Ellis.

Wow.

John.

I want to make sure you guys aren't looking at my laptop.

John's in for 10 points.

Kylie Minogue, Hand on Your Heart.

What's the year?

1992.

Incorrect.

And you're frozen out for the next song.

Number nine, Band Aid 2.

Do they know it's Christmas?

Ellis.

Ellis is in.

1989.

1989 is correct.

Good.

Nine points.

For a bonus point, Ellis.

Name one track and artist.

We need the specificity that was higher up in the top 10 in that year of 1989.

You won't lose anything here if you don't get it, so shoot for the moon.

Or the space stuff.

I am going to say

Madonna.

We will need the song.

Oh, Michael Virgin.

No.

Okay.

In fact, no Madonna is in there.

Really?

Michael Jackerson, out of curiosity?

Jacko wasn't there, no?

Well,

bad came out in 1997, didn't it?

So you wouldn't have been releasing singles.

Okay, can I have an example?

Because it's interesting.

Black Box Ride on Time was number one.

Ride on Time!

And others, Jason Donovan, Too Many Broken Hearts.

Oh, it was a two-horse and I bought it.

Yeah, I did as well.

Okay.

Great.

So it's nine mil, but John, it's get backable.

My head's gone because I bought that record in 1999.

Yeah, you're 9-0 up.

Don't let your head go now.

Now is your time to make sure your head is well and truly present.

Round two, here we go.

Boyzone, when the going gets tough.

Mr.

Wazzo, Flatbeat.

Ellis.

Ellis is in on.

1996.

1996 is incorrect.

You're frozen out.

You have one to yourself here, John.

Coming in at number eight,

what a tune.

Shanks and Bigfoot, sweet like chocolate.

John.

John's in.

1995.

1995 is incorrect.

You're frozen out.

Ellis, you're back in.

But you can't answer now.

You need to wait for the next song.

Seven is Shania Twain.

That don't impress me much.

Ellis.

1998.

1998 is incorrect.

Ellis is frozen out.

John, after the next song naming, you're back in.

In at six, Ricky Martin, Living La Vida Loca.

John.

John.

1997.

1997.

Incorrect.

John's frozen out.

Ellis, after the next track naming, you are back in.

Number five, ATB, 9pm till I come.

1999.

I need your name, your bosom, please.

Ellis is my.

Well,

I'm out.

You are out, but let's play by the rules.

1988, 1999.

is correct.

And it's five points to Ellis for that round, so it's 14 love, 14 nil.

Ellis, can you name a track higher up than ATB, 9pm till I come,

for a bonus point in 99?

Tender by blur.

No, you could have had Lou Bega, Cliff Richard, Eiffel 65, or Britney Spears.

Mambo number five.

That was my era.

I love these tracks.

I will not apologize.

You feel like 44.

Yeah, I remember.

Oh, holiday in France.

Oh, God.

Eiffel 65, I was obsessed with.

Round three.

I feel like Bruno Brooks doing this game.

In at 10, Kaiser Chiefs, Ruby.

Number nine, Mark Ronchen featuring Amy Winehouse with Valerie.

Ellis.

Ellis is in.

2004.

2004.

Incorrect.

You're frozen out.

This one's one's just for you, John.

Proclaimers.

I'm going to be 500 miles.

What?

That must have been a re-release.

I think you shouldn't be swayed by that too much.

Ellis is back in after this, which is Timberland featuring Kerry Hilson with the way I are.

No, thought not.

Number six, Sugar Babes, About You Now

Ellis.

Ellis is taking a punt.

2005.

Incorrect.

Frozen out.

John, this one's just for you.

In at five, take that.

Rule the world.

John, 2003.

Incorrect.

John's frozen out.

In at four, Leon Jackson, when you believe.

This is a tricky top ten.

In at three, you're both back in play.

Mika, Grace Kelly.

John.

John's in.

2006.

No, no, no, you're frozen out.

In at two, just for you, Ellis.

Rihanna featuring Jay-Z, Umbrella.

Uh, Ellis, 2007.

2007 is correct.

Two points.

You only have one song to get.

What's basically the biggest selling single?

2007.

Selling single of 07.

Oh my god.

I am going to say

Britney Spears.

Yeah.

But I can't think of.

No, no, she wasn't very well by 2007, I don't think.

So I don't know.

I don't know who the biggest pop sensation of 2007 was.

Don't worry.

Let's let it go.

It was Leona Lewis with Bleeding Love.

Oh, okay, fair enough.

Which was the big X Factor

single.

So it's 16-nil.

Two rounds to go, John.

You are still in this if you get an early round, but you're going to have to start being a bit.

I couldn't tell you when any pop single was ever made well this round is for you then is it yes why have the rules changed

oh yeah because pop has always been there or thereabouts some asteroids are about to hit the satellite dave

are you listening to the game i am i am you are it's helping you concentrate good uh in at 10 for round four the jam town called malice

Slash precious because there must have been a double A side.

John.

John's in.

1981.

Incorrect.

You're frozen out.

Just for Ellis.

Number nine.

Paul McCartney with Stevie Wonder, Ebony and Ivory.

1982.

I'm going to need your name.

Ellis.

My name is Ellis.

1982.

Correct.

It's.

I'd have got that because that was number one on my, I think, number one on my birthday.

It's such a shame because you almost, the risk of going in early is you kind of guide them towards an era.

And you might have got that anyway, Ellis, but you were just one year old.

I knew it was early 80s.

Yeah.

From the jam.

It's 25-nil, and it's unget backable for John.

Unfortunately.

Oh, Ellis, try for a bonus point.

We're at number nine in the charts for 1982.

What's above it?

You got a good old collection to go at.

Biggest selling chart 1982.

Yeah, singles.

Did Dexies release Come On Eileen in 1982?

Come on, Eileen by...

I think that was 1983.

Anyway, I'm going to go for it anyway.

Come on, Eileen by Dexi's Midnight Runners.

The biggest selling track of 1983 was Dexi's Midnight Runners.

Come on, Eileen.

What are we?

Number one.

Straight at an eye.

It was a tricky collection of tracks apart from that one.

I would have gone Wake Up Maggie by Rod Stewart.

No.

No.

You could have had.

I mean, Tyler.

I just called to say I love you.

No.

Right, one more round.

26, Al.

You're good at this.

There's more than 26 because he got...

Oh, he just got a bonus point, there.

Yeah, which one point?

Okay, final round.

To get some scores on the board for John, to make it a whitewash for Ellis.

Round five starts with Whitney Houston, I will always love you.

In at 10.

Ellis.

Ellis is straight in.

1992.

Incorrect.

Ellis is frozen out.

John, this is just for you.

Number nine.

What a tune.

Culture beat, Mr.

Vane.

John.

John.

1991.

Incorrect.

John's frozen out.

Ellis, after this one.

Hadaway, What is Love?

Ellis,

1993.

Correct.

It's seven more points to Ellis.

Now,

for the victory lap,

can you name a track that was higher than Hadaway, What is Love from 1993?

And I would say it said

there's three I could name.

Right, okay.

I would say, I think it's going to be take that.

And I am going to say

Relight my fire featuring Lulu.

Oh this rocket I've drawn looks like a big Willie

That's not the intention

I would have thought take that would have been in there and they are not is it a bit early for take that and possibly I think maybe it was well are they still in their jelly on a bum face what take that and party right I think take that and party was maybe nice

you've got to bear in mind if if Whitney Houston is number 10 It's a huge year single

singles.

It's a huge year for you.

Can I name three?

If you can name three, John, I'll let you win the whole game.

Thanks, Dave.

No, I won't, but I'll be very impressed now.

I'll give you a face up.

Wet, wet, wet.

You know I love you now.

That's a year after.

But a good time.

Brian Adams, Everything I Do, I Do It For You.

That's two years before.

And Meat Loaf.

I'll do anything for love, but I won't do that.

No, that is a shout.

Correct.

In at one.

Meatloaf.

But what a top 10.

UB40, can't help falling in love with you.

Ace of Base, all that she wants.

Which I bought.

Two Unlimited, no limit.

Gabrielle Dreams.

Mr.

Blobby, Mr.

Blobby.

Shaggy, O Carolina.

Are you Matt?

It's an incredible top 10.

That's like basically every school disc I went before the age of 14.

Is Cotton Eyed Joe in there?

Is that the top 10?

No, that'd have been just after.

I bought that top 10.

And then Spaceman.

Barbie and is a little bit after, yeah.

And Barbie Girl?

After you're thinking around 95, 96.

Because I can picture hearing those in my head in year six of primary school.

And this is about year four of primary school for me.

I like pop music.

It's good.

Or music-based games are always fun.

I like...

But you don't like pop music anymore.

No.

No, because I'm 44.

I also find it interesting what...

what a lot of people like at once, if you know what I mean.

I think it's very...

What year was that again, Dave?

That was 93.

I mean, I was 12, 13 in 1993, so that's my sort of era.

It stays in your head, doesn't it?

Yeah, it's incredibly so.

Yeah.

Advantage to Ellis in the made-up games overall scoring.

So that's probably the biggest whitewash we've ever had.

Yeah, it's down to the point scoring system and how it's played, but absolutely, like 34-0.

It's

been like cumulative miles distance-based games where you've beaten me by like 8,000 miles, I think.

Well, we've got the Earth with its atmospheres, a satellite, four stars, which have let me down, two asteroids, the moon with a rocket on it that I've tried to make as look as less like a Willie as possible, and a secret Soviet-era space station.

You've got some good shadowing going on there.

Yeah, I'm just annoyed because the shadowing is not consistent amongst the craters and the actual moon.

Yeah.

Because if the sun's coming from here, it's a

but also your spaceship is absolutely massive if that's the size of the moon.

Yeah, it's like a Wallace and Gromitz scale spaceship.

Yeah,

great, good made-up game.

Thank you to

James.

Thank you to James.

If you use your ears, you'll guess the years.

Right, well, I think to cleanse the palette after that game, we should have an entry into John's Shamewell.

What was I thinking?

Why did I say he had nice ankles?

She was stood behind me the whole time.

I didn't know he's only got one hand.

I was signed in on her Gmail.

John's Shamewell.

Dearest Ellis John Producer Dave and the sacred waters of the well, I approached the well with a burden too heavy to carry alone.

Please allow me to hurl this boulder of embarrassment into its cool depths.

Not long ago, my wife and I finally managed what we'd not attempted in nearly five years of parenting, a night away.

Oh.

Just the two of us, in the fine Welsh town of Cardigan.

Yes.

Spirits were high, the wine was flowing, and at a delightful small plate restaurant, we began to rank, compare, and contrast each dish with the seriousness of Michelin Inspectors.

Our tastes were completely opposite.

What I adored, she disliked.

What she loved, I dismissed.

Back and forth we went.

A husband and wife, I steadfod of tapas critique.

My standout favourite was a tangy Waldolf salad.

My wife, however, placed it dead last.

That's my bottom, she declared, marking it with the lowest score.

Here's where the shame creeps in.

As the waiter approached with the fateful question, how's everything been this evening, I decided to seize the moment.

Without hesitation, with the booming confidence of a man who had had perhaps one riok or too many, I proclaimed to this innocent stranger, my favourite thing to eat is her bottom.

Oh my god.

Out of nowhere.

Silence.

My wife's eyes widened in horror.

And rather than retreat, apologise, or even attempt to laugh, I, in a moment of nuclear self-destruction, simply repeated it word for word.

I mean my favourite thing to eat is her bottom.

The waiter vanished into the night.

My wife buried her face in her hands, and I remained blissfully unaware of the full horror until, on the walk back to the hotel, the penny dropped with the force of a falling cathedral bell.

Good custodians of the well i beg you to accept this shame may the echoes of her bottom fade from my memory and may i one day dine again without the weight of this mortifying confession yours in crimson cheeked contrition anonymous

it's the fact

he went for it the second time

because it's a funny thing to say even if you're half aware of the game that they've played But as the innocent wait, it's a mad thing to hear out of nowhere because it makes no sense.

Oh, yeah, because the waiter doesn't know about the game.

Doesn't know about the game.

The waiter thinks that they're sex people.

On a sexual holiday.

On a sexual holiday top of TV, yeah.

They're taking their cardigans off.

Sure, they're laughing about that on the way home.

People in Cardigan are sexually active?

Absolutely.

How do you think there's a population in Cardigan, Dave?

Would you think all these guys are prudes?

It's got a thriving red light district.

And a nice cake shop.

Was it?

Yeah, yeah.

They did the cakes for our wedding.

Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, yeah.

Were they explicit cakes?

Yeah.

Incredibly rude.

Like, actually, one of the tears had to be banned.

Yeah, yeah.

It spoiled the day.

It's what is, you know, I wanted.

But, you know, a lot of our relatives said that's absolutely horrible.

The shape of that is disgusting.

And I said, listen.

It's like a spaceship that John's draw.

I said, it's my day.

Yeah.

It's my explicit day.

I want my lemon drizzle to look like that.

The vicar actually did an exorcism on the code.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anyway, you can send your shame wells to ellisonjohn at bbc.co.uk.

Also, they were going away, so it's not like you did it in your local restaurant where you might be going again.

I mean, each to their own, but I think I would find that funny quite quickly.

Oh, yeah.

I think that's just a funny story.

There would be an anecdote in the kitchen.

Yeah, absolutely.

The waiter would have definitely told everyone was working in the kitchen.

I think it's okay.

I think it's funny.

But then again, it wasn't me in the position.

Maybe it was quite cringing, quite cringy.

But I think that's just a bit of fun.

It's a bit of fun, and we love fun.

We do.

So that's all for today.

You can find our BBC Sounds only content.

The Bureau de Change of the Mind on BBC Sounds.

Isn't that right, Dave?

Yeah, absolutely.

And

that's it.

That's all the things that we're doing.

Well, we'll be back with you on Friday, and then, of course the Bureau on Saturday.

Thank you very much for listening.

Goodbye.

At the BBC, we go further so you see clearer.

With a subscription to BBC.com, you get unlimited articles and videos, hundreds of ad-free podcasts, and the BBC News Channel streaming live 24-7.

From less than a dollar a week for your first year, read, watch, and listen to trusted independent journalism and storytelling.

It all starts with a subscription to bbc.com.

Find out more at bbc.com slash unlimited.

Make money predicting football?

Now you can nationwide with Calci.

Calci is the only platform that lets you legally trade on real-world events in all 50 states, from football to Bitcoin, the Oscars, and even politics.

If it matters, you can trade on it.

Trade on who wins each game, props, spread, and more.

Legally, nationwide.

Don't miss your shot.

Download the Calci app or go to kalshi.com.

Use code podcast and get $10 when you trade 100.

This is an investment that carries risk.

Calci.com.