#473 - James Acaster, The Sad Van and Anne Tuna

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Hello, thank you very much for downloading this episode of Ellis and John.

Ellis James here, present and correct.

Dave Masterman is here, present and correct.

John Robbins is here, present and correct.

The full compliment, thankfully.

Although I think the other two, John and Dave, might have to step into the breach at some point.

Because, John,

I've had 45 minutes sleep.

Hmm.

I had a bit of a nightmare.

I am no science nerd.

Yeah.

I'm also very suspicious of a lot of the panic around sleep.

Okay.

However, 45 minutes, in layman's understanding, is not ideal.

It's not enough.

So we did a gig last night in Sheffield.

Yes, we did.

Guilty as charged.

And you went back to your house, but Dave and I stayed over.

I commuted back in the sad van, and you guys got on the giggle train.

Yeah.

In the fun hotel.

We stayed in the fun hotel.

and got the 8.37 giggle train.

Now, Dave and I.

I'm just trying to make a saving, guys.

I'm just trying to...

I just hope this talk makes some money for someone.

Yeah, guys, wouldn't it?

If it breaks even, we're all happy, aren't we?

I think.

Yeah, so

you stay wherever you like.

You get trains.

And we stay wherever we like.

And you should have got the van home.

Anyway, continue.

It's too far.

It's not.

Yes, it is.

It's not.

But you live.

Also, I don't live in London, John.

Yeah, and you live much further than I've been.

Okay, that's a fair point.

And you live much further.

You could have been dropped off in Derby.

You live much further north than I do.

Sorry guys, you've got to sleep down.

We only had eight hours' sleep last night.

And Giles wouldn't be able to drive me back and then get back to it, because he would be home at about 4am.

You could get a cab from my house.

Right, that's rubbish.

Okay.

Anyway, why have you only had 48?

So Dave and I had a couple of...

Dave and I had a couple of pints and I felt extremely relaxed.

Nice.

I felt extremely relaxed.

We had to persuade the lady to keep the bar open, but she did and did.

And we both felt relaxed, didn't we, Dave?

Yeah, we had a lovely time.

And I often can't sleep after the shows.

And I walked up to my room and I thought, this is brilliant.

I'm so relaxed, and I'm going to have a really good night's rest.

And I felt so relaxed that I immediately fell asleep in my clothes and then woke up out of the way.

You do this a lot, I know, twice in a week.

You're falling asleep in your clothes after three pints.

Yeah.

Why?

It's bad practice.

Yeah, but it's not practice, is it?

Because it's not intentional.

Just don't lie on the bed.

Yeah, yeah, I shouldn't be lying on the bed.

I should be taking off my clothes and brushing them.

So, what are you doing?

You're getting into your room and then immediately lying on the bed in your clothes.

Yeah.

Why?

Just because I'm so relaxed.

Yeah, but surely you get into your room.

Yeah.

You push your back.

Sean.

You unpack, you undress.

Sean,

just like you, I make mistakes.

Yeah, but this is a mistake you keep making.

This is a mistake no one else makes.

I made it twice this week.

But if you come in after like ten pints, I can understand.

Yeah, okay.

How many pints did he have, Dave?

Two.

Well, no, a pint and a bottle.

You fell asleep in your clothes after a pint and a bottle.

It was a big bottle.

Are you 80?

Okay, I'm 80.

Anyway, I think what was it?

Anyway, so I then woke up at about sort of one, and I thought, oh, good, I'll brush my teeth and I'll go to bed.

So I took my clothes off.

I'll essentially get up.

Yeah.

So I took my clothes off, flossed.

Brushed my teeth.

I thought, this is great.

One o'clock.

Set the alarm for upper seven.

Oh, yeah, that's enough.

That's fine.

I've already had a bit of sleep.

It'll be fine.

Anyway, at that point, I was the most awake I've ever been in my life.

And that's how it stayed until 7.30 when I had a shower.

Now that does happen in a different sense to me in that for some reason, since stopping drinking, God has given me a gift.

Oh yeah.

And that gift is the 20 minute 11 p.m.

power nap.

Yeah.

So I go to sleep at 11, I wake up at 20 past 11.

I'm then ready to rock.

So I've had to train myself.

Well, sometimes that can last until sort of 1 a.m.

But often if I just, if I follow good practice, I can get back to sleep in sort of 10, 20 minutes.

Because I just got angry and upset.

Well, this is this, you've got, you've got to disengage the ego.

Too low points.

You've got to experience ego death.

At 4.30.

You've seen the size of his ego.

At 4.30 a.m., I thought, okay, well, if I fell asleep right now, that's not enough.

Yeah, you can't get into that headspace.

Yeah.

If only you'd called me.

Unfortunately, I was having eight hours sleep.

I got the sad van home to make a saying thing.

The worst moment was 6.44 a.m.

when I remember thinking, well, if I fell asleep now, it would actually be worse.

Yes, it would be worse.

And so in a mad way, I don't want to fall asleep.

And then at 7.30, I thought, yeah, may as well get up.

And do you know what?

I feel vulnerable and exposed to it.

Yes.

I feel a little bit tired.

And we're going to be exploiting that over the next three hours in the following records.

It makes me feel anxious for you.

I feel I've got a sympathy angst.

Well, look at it this way.

We were talking about this the other week.

If you want to experience how you will feel in 10 years' time, go without a night's sleep.

So you're not getting an insight into 54-year-old LS James.

How does it feel to be 54?

Not that bad.

Okay.

Not that bad, actually.

And I did think about that quite a lot when I wasn't thinking about that.

I came up with a few podcast ideas.

Oh, dear.

The last one was health podcast brackets general.

This one, this was, I remember looking at my at my watch and it was it was 5.48.

Okay.

So probably not at my best.

The podcast is called, God, imagine that guy doing that.

And basically you would

and you would take a celebrity who doesn't do something and then you make them do it.

I think that's more ITV

midnights.

I was in an ITV headspace.

Imagine that guy doing that.

I was trying to disengage my ego and I couldn't.

So I ended up coming up with ITV formats, mid-week ITV formats.

So you would take someone who was scared of horses and then you'd make them brush a horse.

What I do in that situation

is accept.

Acceptance is the key to getting back to sleep.

Yeah, yeah.

And not monitoring time and not thinking, well, if I sleep now, then this.

If I sleep now,

not setting yourself little sort of deadlines.

I did only check my clock at 4.30, 5.48, and 6.44 because I was trying to disengage.

And I was lying there thinking, you could survive in 45 minutes.

People have done far longer than that.

My God.

And I was, and I was disengaged.

I just was extremely awake.

Extremely awake.

You will get, I think, so the plus side to this is, you'll get to seven o'clock tonight and feel so euphoric about the night's sleep that you're about to get.

And you'll feel very proud of yourself that you've got through a day.

Deliver two blooming great podcasts.

Don't

have a lot of people.

I think the opposite is true.

I think he's getting to 6 p.m.

exhausted, falls asleep in his clothes again.

Access again at 8.

I'd put money on that.

He's then awake for another 10 hours.

So Ellis is now going to have

it gets progressively earlier and earlier in the day.

With his cognitive decline, Dave, is this what he needs?

I did worry a little bit about my cognitive decline.

Also,

really got to say this.

Thanks to all the people who've DM'd me about cognitive decline and said I should eat more fermented foods.

Yeah, it's really helpful.

Thanks.

Because the more you think about cognitive decline, the less likely you are to get it.

Exactly.

That's what they always say.

And that's why I'm eating four yogurts a day.

Okay.

Okay.

Four big fermented yogurts.

Anyway, talking about the sad van.

Yes.

Which John travels in up and down the country for no good reason.

The Efficiency Express.

The Efficiency Express, which he travels in all the time to make a saving, as Giles listens to his audiobooks and John has his night's counselling headphones on.

Yes, audiobooks about a burgeoning music scene in the early 80s,

which last night the author was padding out quite significantly with an in-depth account of a scuba diving course.

He moved on from whose idea it was to start a venue in East London.

He then discussed the recipe for the perfect pie and mash and then talked about his paddy training.

Okay.

And I was like, someone is

10,000 words short.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

But I think I've talked to Giles about that book, and Giles and I have a lot in common, and we both agree that it's very entertaining.

Anyway, we're driving around the country in the sad van, John in particular, because he's keen to make a saving.

Dave and I,

cards on the table, take the train occasionally.

Sorry.

Okay, sorry.

I'm actually paying for it myself.

It's not coming out of the tour budgets.

There you go.

That's good to hear.

We've been recording some of these chats that are happening for no apparent reason in Ellis and John's Road to Nowhere.

Well in the latest Ellis and John's Road to Nowhere, John claimed that some comedians have been slagging him off in WhatsApp groups because of his choice of budget hotels.

Now let's hear exactly what John had to say.

Amongst some UK comedians on various WhatsApp groups,

I am receiving a lot of abuse for my choice of hotel.

Some people feel because of the size of the venues we're playing, we should splash out and live a little.

If we were in some of the brands that Nish Kumar has suggested, James A.

Castor has suggested, Lord Edward Gamble has suggested, we'd be looking at four quid a minute, Giles.

Are they the ones that I refer to as the more money than sense boys?

The more money than sense boys, Gamble A.

Custer, Kumar.

Now, we thought it only fair to allow one of those so-called More Money Than Sense Boys to have a right to reply.

So, joining us on the line to defend himself and his fellow crew members, we have James A.

Custer.

Hello, James.

Genuinely considered

like hiring out a really expensive hotel room for this call.

Nearly did it.

Thought it'd be funny.

Well, I can already see, James.

I mean, you're in a very nice room.

It's very nice and ordered.

Looks like a pleasant place to be.

But you've got one of those cameras that follows your face on a Zoom call like they have in top-level boardrooms.

Yeah, I don't know how that's happened.

Cards on the table.

It's a new laptop.

I've had to re-download Zoom.

I noticed it was doing it when I was in the waiting room, but I thought, well, there's nothing I can do about that.

So that's it.

I do feel it feels weird.

It's classic more money than sex.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I had to pay extra for that.

so james you obviously spend upwards of 30 grand a night on hotels yeah

how and why

well listen first of all uh

well thank you for having me on when i was invited to do this uh it was you know we'd had all these discussions on the whatsapp group i was ready to absolutely tear strips off the lad uh now cards on the table i've calmed down

so

it's a little bit frustrating because I was really ready to to barbecue him oh yeah you go in two-footed if you want James I can't

not half-heartedly I can't look to be honest the more that I think about it the more that I feel quite sorry for John and I think the real culprits are David Ellis yeah

and were we at fault

stand up for yourselves a bit more push back against it I mean you know John's whole thing is is obviously mad because like he's got enough money that that he could have a nice hotel room and not notice it, not notice the money, uh,

not and have a nicer night.

It'd be better for his head, better for everyone's head.

But if he loves these little budget hotel rooms and there's something about them that brings him joy, I don't want to tell him he can't stay in them.

Now, yes, when I hear him talk about it, it does sound like he's madly.

Your camera follows you up.

My hands are

going to lose you entirely.

Oh, Jesus Christ.

Sorry, John.

Listen.

Oh, hands down.

I'm not used to speaking without my hands.

This is like,

I'm going to be hobbled in this debate.

I think if John genuinely likes those rooms, it's fine.

I'm not always convinced that John does genuinely like some of the things he likes.

And sometimes he's just going through some stuff and he's trying to quite aggressively convince everyone, especially himself, that he likes the thing.

And then a few, you know, a few months later, a few years later, he realizes it isn't good for him.

And he does a very nice speech about it on your show and he wins an award.

And I know that, I know that Dave, especially, is thinking in his head, do not stop this behavior because this is what's paying the bills.

And

Dave knows.

The more that John's sad, the more the coin's going to keep rolling in.

So he's going to want John at least to keep staying in those hotel rooms.

Fair enough.

But the two of you have no excuse.

Why are you you not sticking up to yourself and just saying we'd like to stay somewhere do you guys like those rooms that you're staying in well i the the the argument i would make james is that there and there is an argument for the fact that we're getting our head down for seven to eight hours we're back up and we're out again so in terms of enjoying those luxuries as john did point out in the sad van uh

there might there is an element of justification to that i suppose so i'm not that fussed either way i'm pretty laid back with the whole thing

you want to just sleep in the van Well, I don't think you would be able to get to Ellis.

Can't sleep sitting up famously.

Yeah, famously.

Once had to get in the prayer position on a flight to Australia to give himself a chance.

That didn't work.

No, I just, but I did smell the sort of residue of a million bums.

Yes.

Um, would it not be cheaper just to buy three coffins

and put them

in a lay-by and just the three of you just lay in those?

You've got them.

You can be tripping to gigs in a hearse.

If all you're doing is getting your head down for seven to eight hours, who gives a f ⁇ ?

They are cushioned, aren't they?

They are cushioned.

They are very nice.

Mafia ones.

Yeah.

I mean, the reason Ellis doesn't have a say is because Ellis has not been CC'd on any admin emails for nearly 10 years because there's just no points.

So that's his own fault, really.

Well, there's two things.

Obviously, that is true.

The other thing is that John's our star player.

Okay.

He's our Messi.

He's our Ronaldo.

He's our Gareth Bale.

You've got to do what you can to keep John.

But ironically, a star player who performs badly if they're pampered.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So what I have to do,

because I know John so well, I now accept...

that the saving John makes from staying in the cheapest budget hotel he can find makes him so euphoric.

He's actually a better performer than if he'd stayed in a nice hotel.

Because I talked to Steph Grero, who I do social distance sports bar with, and because he worked for the BBC for so long, he said, I remember the time when the BBC used to treat you in the old days.

Now I remember them.

But I was working there during the modern era when it was the cheap hotels.

And as a commentator, Steph was like, I always thought I'd perform better if I'd stayed in a nice place.

And I said, but John is the opposite.

If you walk into the gig from the Crown Plaza, I think you'd be in such a bad mood that you had to pay for it.

It would derail the gig.

But this, you're all missing the point because it's not actually about money.

It's about fantasy and it's about reality and it's about expectation and your illness.

And fulfillment.

Because

the hotels we go to,

I know before I walk in the front door what I'm getting.

I'm getting consistency.

So it's a bit like going...

Not really.

It's a bit like when you walk into the dressing room having your locker.

What I don't want is someone saying, do you want a special fancy bespoke locker with

a jacuzzi?

And you get there and the jacuzzi doesn't work.

And you're like, well, what?

Hang on.

That wasn't the deal.

You made it

better.

You're imagining problems in the nice hotel is what happens.

Ellis stayed somewhere this week where the lift didn't work.

And instead of you taking that as a point off of budget hotels, you said, yes, but imagine if you pay for a nice hotel and the lift didn't work.

That would be awful.

It's like, what are you odd about?

You lunatic.

That hasn't happened.

You've got to imagine if all the bad things that happen in these budget hotels every single time you stay in them happened in somewhere you'd paid more money.

That would have been worse.

But if someone offered...

You just invented...

Let's roll back because these guys are probably quite used to letting you just say stuff and then move on.

A locker with a jacuzzi in it.

Where does that come from that's not even a thing that exists and then you invented a problem with that jacuzzi

and then it doesn't work and then that's point-proven is it's that you made up a thing that is a locker with an attachment that is a jacuzzi you can get in and then that's broken so therefore you're right it it's also john john is a mentality monster in that he's got a monstrous mentality yeah and for instance we did actually stay in a nicer hotel in manchester but in john's room there was some stuff wrong with it Well also and that upset him.

It was a hundred quid more than the chain hotel we've been staying in.

But I think most you got less coffee.

Yeah.

You didn't get complimentary chocolate.

But also I think most the shower didn't get hot enough.

But I think that's that I think that's an exception.

Most fancy hotels, if you can afford to stay in them,

those problems aren't there.

Do you know what?

Here's a point I'd be interested in your takes on.

When you go to fancy hotels you see entitled people complaining all the time yes right you do not want to you do

you do not see that in consistent hotels that deliver again and again and again because people know what they want whereas fancy hotels are aspirational you're saying i deserve better i'm the best whereas what i actually want is i want my hotel to be part of an ego death it's a spiritual exercise.

Yes.

In going, you've given me a USB charging port next to the bed.

That's amazing.

I didn't expect that.

You've lifted my mood.

I feel like a million dollars or 70 quid.

Whereas you go into the fancy hotel and you can't help but the human imagination goes, I am now part of something special.

I deserve to be here with my instant hot tap, my quicker tap.

And then the quicker tap doesn't work and you think, oh, they've let me down because life lets me down the thing you put on the whatsapp group where you just wanted to john's

interject very very quickly ellipt i think john has got to stop using the word you in anecdotes

i don't think that's fair just tell us what and then you all do this this is what you all do and then you sit and you vape on your own and you think about how sad you are and how much giles should stop playing the audiobooks and how that guy's clearly not met his word count.

So, why am I listening to this?

That's I'll take that on board.

I think that's a valid point.

Yeah, I think it's more that you feel like that.

Often, when I'm in those hotels, if the cuckoo tap hasn't worked, you know, probably not that annoyed about it.

I'm glad to just be in a nice, big, spacious room that it just makes my head feel better.

Yeah, well, often I have hotel chains that I trust, so the there is consistency in okay, the water is hot, the Wi-Fi is good, there's those ports that you speak of are next to the bed, all of that.

What was that thing you said where you just wanted complete

anonymity, like you died for the rest of the day?

Yeah, I want to not exist.

Yeah, and that's

disappear.

That's what you're looking for in a hotel.

So, when I walked down that first corridor in the, I can't remember which one it was, but I was like three corridors down, and it was like the corridor could have gone on forever.

Yes.

Like in a sort of

dystopian film.

Like it could have been Joseph Kay, just walking down a corridor where the numbers just kicked.

And I just can't, I never get there.

I feel like I'm completely anonymous.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah.

And the gigs have been great fun.

But that's, people do get a certain sense of calm from liminal spaces like

airports for sort of big airports or

service stations or public spaces where there's just like there's no sense of self again

in the premiere inn in the holiday inn in the travel lodge the ego dies so you don't want character no

and and does do you extend that to the rest of your life no so are you milton keynes over york no

but i'm

hmm

No, I'm not Milton Keynes over York.

Because Milton Keynes isn't a liminal space.

It's Milton Keynes.

I want a non-space.

Okay.

So the corridor of

a chain hotel.

Right.

So another thing that annoys me about the hotels that James is talking about, this is...

So tell me what you think of this, James.

Okay.

In a Premier Inn, for example, the rooms go from one to like 450.

In the hotel chains that Yanish Kumar's, your Ed Gamblesy, James Acast are staying in, the rooms are called things like Oak View,

riverside that doesn't help me get to the room

and it and by making it bespoke they have made it worse because i want room 20 because room 20 is on floor two and it's the first one only get out of the lift i'm not wandering around like an escha

stairway that leads into itself looking for sort of beaver's lodge or whatever it is

john you you you love wordle i do love wordle We haven't even gotten to Wordle today.

And Wordle is like,

you've got to figure out what the word is.

You don't even know what it is.

Just think of it as a giant Wordle puzzle.

You've got to find the word, John.

But it's three-dimensional.

Find the word, John.

So, James, finally, because you've made some very interesting points that I'm going to take on board.

Yeah.

Okay.

Say you're staying in your, you're in New York, you've done your gig, you get back to the hotel, it's half 10, you've got a train at eight in the morning

or whatever you've got a train at 11 in the morning what are you getting in those two hours of waking time that for you

you feel yeah this was good this was a good purchase as soon as i walk in the room my head feels clear and i feel better without even having done anything when i when i stay in the smaller hotel rooms uh

as soon as i'm in there i feel boxed in just don't feel as good walk in that room instantly feel great.

Probably have a bath,

relax in the bath before, before I do all my

before-bed routine in a nice, clean mirror.

Has it got shampoo that's separate to shower gel, James?

Oh, surely.

Are you not familiar with this?

Surely, yeah, there is.

There is separate, there is separate shampoo to the shower gel and conditioner, actually.

They offer conditioner.

Oh, my God.

And

then I'll have a really good like face time with my partner on wi-fi that i know isn't going to fail on me at any time this is a really that's a strong point

and you purchased 24 hours of wi-fi and you said it was superb it was it was stable so

yes you don't always have to purchase it at these places and uh although you know i guess you do because you're paying more for the room so i guess that's included

And then I just have a lovely night's sleep.

And then in the morning, when I wake up, the first thing I see is a room that is designed to make me feel calm and welcome and safe and not make me feel boxed in and like

any second now, all of this could fall apart and injure me.

And then I...

It's a better breakfast, presumably.

It's a better, it's a better breakfast.

It's always.

To be honest, you know, to be honest, I'm not even doing breakfast.

I'm not bothering with that.

I don't mind.

Oh, good lord.

Wow.

I mean, James, a lot of what you're saying there, you're describing my experience.

Yes.

Well, this is the thing why I can't be too angry at John is because I know that John does get something out of this.

And until he eventually one day admits that he's figured out it wasn't good for him, like

back in the day where I used to be like, I'm going to the gym.

And he'd go,

are you mad?

And I'd do that.

And now he's like, I mean, so I think maybe that was more about me than you.

And so, like, you know, there is a chance.

But while John says that he genuinely loves it and it makes him happier i will believe it but it's i mean look ellis i get it

you should be i i am the

ellis to ed gamble's john i don't really read the emails do all that so i would it's very important to me so the reason why i wanted to come on the podcast i would like to say to ed gamble because i know he listens to this podcast he's a big fan of it thank you ed I oh I know that I don't read the emails very much and you could have a stay in wherever you want on tour and it could be somewhere horrible that I don't like and isn't good for my mental health.

But you book us in at some absolutely beautiful places, buddy.

And I'm so lucky to have you looking out for me and not going, do you know what?

If you don't read the emails, James, then you.

This is what happens.

I really do appreciate that you still think of me, even though I'm not a cos admin as much as you are.

I mean, it's, it means so much.

James, both of us, you and I, have had our

peaks and troughs over the years of our journey.

And I think we're both making progress.

Yeah.

Because you've just said something really beautiful to your fellow podcaster, even if in order to say it, you've had to come on another podcast that he listens to and not just said it to his face.

And I was saying it to his face.

And

I did stay.

I did try to stay in a nicer hotel in Manchester.

It didn't work out for me.

Yeah.

But I've, you know, I gave it a go.

You did.

And like, I still think, John, you should let

us more money than sense boys, as Giles eloquently put it, although he did sound like he was maybe backed into a corner and

wanted that conversation to be over.

But

maybe let us

more money than sense boys book you

a hotel

at some point on us.

And

we'll choose one of of the ones that we like because the one that you did stay in i'd never heard of i was like i wouldn't choose that the like

and in return on my next tour you can book me into one of your faves

okay his eyes have lit up this is nice yeah this could be interesting i get to review a more money than sense hotel room yeah james gets to well i think the problem is james knows exactly what but that's the thing you you know what you're gonna get yeah so i i i promise i will

and bear in mind the things that you like about it and focus on them as positives rather than just going in to completely okay tear it to shreds i'll be like this is what john gets out of it let's try and have the john robbins experience try to imagine complete ego death james yes yes Wow.

Well, that's just been a great conversation.

I've got things to take away.

James makes an important point.

Don't project your own experience by using you

in conversation.

Don't make out that the whole world

shares your opinion and your approach to things.

So I've got lessons to take away.

And I think that's quite fun if the More Money Than Sense boys book me.

Oh, yeah.

Not all of us.

No.

Book me a hotel.

Oh, yeah.

Let me be clear.

The offer only extends to Josh.

It's funny.

I'll Google a midget.

Great.

Thank you, James.

That was fun.

That was very insightful.

Thank you.

Yes.

Thank you, guys.

He makes some good points.

He did.

Well, yeah, but I mean, he's, we're making the same point.

Yeah.

We're saying we like what we like.

And that's it.

So to really

mine just happens to cost 200 quid less.

But that's fine.

I think because all you want to, all you're both wanting to do is put yourselves during quite a busy time in your lives in the best headspace possible.

Yes.

That's all you're trying to do.

You want to feel better, like he talks about going into a room, his head feels better.

And you're coming out of those rooms for whatever reason, the reasons almost don't matter.

With a spring in your step in the morning, your head feels better and you're in a better mindset.

I mean, I'm yet to see too much spring.

It's because you're never there.

When me and Giles had our buffet breakfast and we were met met in the van at half past eight, we both had springs in our soul.

They are very quick, the buffet breakfast.

I do wish I'd got a banana from the tray at reception because actually, that I tell a lie, we hadn't had a buffet breakfast because there was no breakfast available at that hotel.

I didn't want to bring that up in the call.

Call with you all.

Thanks, Dave.

Yeah, because that's quite a.

But all hotels refurbish.

Damning indictment.

Yes.

Oh, that's happened to us twice.

Yeah.

Cheers, David, David Trainier, owner of Hawke Walks in Northern Ireland.

Ellis, Ellis and John, join us.

Nice to have you both on.

I mean, would you, would you, I don't know whether you heard all that, gentlemen, but

I mean, would you not agree that half a dead pigeon dropped

on a playing service or whatever or in your garden?

It just does feel like a portent of doom, doesn't it?

Well, if you play Sunday League football,

you know, sadly, people are used to there being dog mess on the pitch.

But I always assumed that that stuff didn't really happen by the time you got to the Premier League or the championship.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, you've got to get rid of it.

I once went to play five-side at the National Sports Centre in Crystal Palace, and they've got a pigeon problem.

And when I walked into the reception to pay, there was a falcon above my head.

And I assumed I was having an anxiety dream.

My friend Mark said, no, they've got it in the centre to train to hunt for pigeons because there's such a pigeon problem.

So it is, it was something I was aware of before the Hawthorne's on Saturday, but I've never seen it at that level.

No, no.

Well, it's uh, there's no easy games at any level, you know, as we uh as we know.

John, have you got any bird-related golf stories?

I seem to remember very early in my career covering a story about crows interfering with golf balls because they were mistaking them for eggs.

I have had, in fact, in Spain about five years ago,

a bird picked up twice in one competition a bird picked up the ball.

Once it dropped it, if you see the bird, drop it, or have

reason

of sort of above average certainty that a bird has dropped it, you play it from where it lies.

And no, you can replace it.

Okay.

If you can't prove prove in your mind.

It's one of those grey areas of sort of golfing rules.

You have to play it from where it lies.

However, a bird took my ball out of the bunker, but didn't bring it back.

So in the bunker, there was this big splash mark where you could see the ball had hit.

It wasn't, there was no, it hadn't rolled out.

A bird nabbed it.

But because I hadn't seen the bird, I then had to go back to the T and play three off the T.

Very, very annoying.

Well, that's a very detailed answer.

I did not expect that that's beautiful

i did once see a guy uh hit a seagull with his drive and it was absolutely it was one of the worst things i've ever seen because it didn't die it was bleeding oh god damn um

but the question is adrian

who is the pest

the bird or the golfer the bird who who messes on the seat at the hawthorns yeah or the civilization that invented football and built stadia yeah we are the pests John's quite down at the moment.

Yes,

I can tell.

He keeps referring to himself as a pest.

People say, oh, you've got to kill deers because they're a pest.

They rip all the bark off trees.

Who's responsible for removing half the trees on Earth?

Man.

I'm trying my best to pick him up, Adrian.

I mean, being out on a comedy tour with

him,

I mean, it must have its challenges at times.

Strangely, Dave and Ellis have started getting the train and not being in the tour van.

The first two days, they were in the tour van with me, and now they're staying over in hotels and getting the train.

And I'm just driving back in total silence for three hours.

Oh, no.

Look,

I'll come and just be your mate.

And we'll just

be gloomy.

We'll be gloomy together.

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We've got some pushback, Dave, on my scorn of you buying parachutes by Coldplay on vinyl.

All I've seen is pushback on my DMs, John, actually.

People are sort of misunderstanding my scorn.

And the last thing I want is for people to think I'm being scornful in the wrong way.

Because I was being scornful.

Oh, yeah.

But my scorn is of,

I think it's buying it new.

Is it?

Is my scorn.

It's the scorn.

Rather than the record itself.

It's something very very

40s man in his 40s about ordering online parachutes by codplay for like 25 quid but when every single second and vinyl shop in the country will have that record i

agree with that and it won't be for five quid the one if it's not been reissued in years that Coldplay parachutes file could be 100 quid.

What?

I don't mean like the first edition with Coldplay spelt wrong.

Yeah, but even so.

But also, they were being, but that album came out at a time when vinyl sales were at an all-time low.

So a lot of bands weren't even releasing records on vinyl then.

I've not done the research.

But the only reason I got it, and yes, I must admit, I'm not that discerning when it comes to how I buy my vinyl.

I'll hold my hands up.

I saw it got serviced to me because they know me well on Instagram.

An ad got that.

The algorithm serviced me this ad of a Coldplay Eco vinyl.

So it knows you.

So you are enough of a stereotype that the algorithm can seek you out.

No, because it was the record.

It was the record store in general.

Then again, it was the first ad of them.

So maybe it did know.

Either way,

I saw it.

You're always humming yellow while you browse Instagram, aren't you?

And I saw it.

I thought that looks nice.

A nice kind of transparent, eco-friendly vinyl.

Oh, I've not got parachutes.

Oh, that was one of the big albums that in my head I've always said out of the classics that I've always wanted to get from when I was younger, I've always wanted, it's $24.99.

I can afford $24.99.

Because you're saving on your hotels.

Because I'm saving on my hotels.

So I pressed purchase.

Sure.

It arrived at an inopportune moment to my house when my alarm was going off.

Couldn't help that.

But I do also, given this episode seems to be all about...

understanding each other at this stage, which I'm enjoying.

I do also see your point of view in that there is a bit of a

stereotype knocking about there of

a dad who is maybe experiencing an early midlife crisis also this isn't on you dave because you've been sucked in by the algorithm and the marketing there's something about a company going this is the eco-friendly yeah by buying a new product that we will package and send to you in the post as opposed to going to a second-hand record store but that's you know who's no one's perfect and i certainly i'm not saying i'm an eco-friendly more eco-friendly than the next person yeah you know if i'm if i'm in a bad mood I won't even say that, but my attitude to rinsing, some recycling is changeable depending on my mood.

Yeah.

And sometimes I might say out loud in my house, if I'm at the end of my tether, it's going in the effing bin.

Okay.

But just to add a bit of cool in the mix.

But sometimes, yeah, I'll put boiling water in a Marmite jar.

I'll go the extra yard.

Yeah, I do.

But sometimes I'll just chuck it in the road.

I'll throw it at a bird bird of prey.

Yeah.

I'll find the rarest beast.

Yeah.

And I'll have a pop.

Yeah.

But just to add to a bit of element of cool, because

I don't feel like there's a problem with me buying coldplay parachutes.

In the last couple of months, I've also bought Loyal Carner's new album and Little Sims.

So there's a.

And I've not heard of them, so they must be cool.

And they're cool.

But also

I don't care what music you're buying.

Michael's not sure.

I would love a copy of Chris DeBerg's Into the Light on vinyl.

In fact, I've got one.

Oh, I've got a website for you then.

Is it eco-friendly versions of it?

You know, it's not, I mean, there is something unique.

You couldn't have picked a better example.

Agreed, agreed.

Parachutes by Cold Player.

I don't think there was a better example of what happened.

But whatever, I mean, you can't have, you can't say music is uncool, I don't think.

No, I agree.

I do.

I entirely agree with that.

There's nothing winds me up more than if you're listening to something.

And someone did it to me the other week, and I won't name names, but they came here and said, what's that?

That's rubbish.

That winds me up something wrong.

Because I say, well, you think it's rubbish.

But I think to kind of pass that on to someone else who's clearly enjoying what they were listening to, I think is quite a selfish attitude to

taste.

But this is from Graham in Bristol.

Graeme says, hi, my brave little soldiers.

After hearing John give Dave both barrels for buying Coldplace parachutes on vinyl, in my opinion, still their finest work, I thought it leaped his defence.

I, too, am a man who spent his formative years listening to Naughty's Indy, and I have over the years slowly added some of my favourites to my vinyl collection.

Sure, your Sergeant Peppers, Your Roomers, Yaziggy Stardust

form a key part of the collection.

Exactly.

But they sit alongside such classics as Young for Eternity by The Subways, With Love and Squalor by We Are Scientists.

Oh, yeah.

Or I Had the Blues, but I shook them loose.

Bay bomb by

bomb bay bicycle club.

Cracking band.

I'd be the first to admit that they aren't the pinnacle of musical achievement, but they take me back to a simpler time when my main worries were about affording a new pair of converse or how we'd get served buying local cheap cider in a corner shop.

Not that I condone underage drinking, of course.

Those albums will forever hold a special place in my heart, and I am always excited when the postman drops off a copy of Wall of Arms by the Maccabees.

Oh, that's the one I got the other day.

Is it?

That was the Maccabees album, yeah.

I hope Dave's collection continues to grow unabated over time.

It is amazing how music can take you back, though.

Oh, yeah.

Like, it's extraordinary what it can do to someone.

If you listen to a song that you loved when you were 15, you will still know every single word to that.

Yeah, absolutely.

It just, yeah, I just think it's uh, I think it's very nice what you're doing, Dave.

I don't buy that many because they because vinyl collecting is genuinely quite expensive, and I can't really afford it very often.

But it's a nice window from buying it to having it drop through your door.

You've got six days there where you've got a bit of a pepper.

Well, the step because you're looking forward to the vinyl arrival.

Friend of mine,

his policy is the big 50.

Interesting.

So he's worked very hard to establish what his favourite 50 records of all time are.

And then that's it.

And that's it.

So he's going to stop at 50.

He won't.

He won't.

Well, that's his plan anyway.

Just write them down.

No, but this is this is thing.

He was like, well, I want to start listening to music on record as opposed to on a streaming site.

It's still the best sound quality you can get, I think.

But it is, you know, it takes up a lot of space.

That's the issue.

We've had lots of correspondence about your alarm nightmare, Dave.

A lot of people enjoying the video on the socials.

I think a lot of people guessed what happened as well, actually.

What do you mean?

It was a battery issue.

That's why my code being typed in wasn't turning it off because it wasn't actually anything to do with a sensor going off or a door being jarred.

There was a battery issue.

The batteries were running out of the alarm, which have now been sorted.

That's such an appalling way to alert you to low batteries.

It's ridiculous, but a few people did say it.

They went, I bet your battery's low because it happened.

Someone said it happened to me at 2 a.m but why doesn't it just a little thing come on the screen or a little tiny little beep yes like your washing machine makes when it's finished the cycle yes what who

i want to get that company on the phone it happened to me a couple of years ago and i didn't think we had an alarm in our house and at two in the morning

and you know when you test your smoke alarm

i would say this alarm was four times louder like it was yeah horrible amazingly kids slipped through it

but

so loud you couldn't work out where it was coming from.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

The old battery.

This is from Sarah.

Hello, my pretty little pickles.

I'm writing in response to Dave's unfortunate alarm debacle, which he managed bravely, like the bigger boy he sometimes is.

Dave is not alone in enduring no-fault alarm-based disasters.

In mid-July 2024, at approximately 2am, my husband shook me awake, asking how I was managing to sleep through the sound of our burglar alarm, which had been going off for five minutes.

The reason being, really well-researched earplugs immediately it became apparent that there was a massive problem it was loud so loud being mid-summer all the neighbors had their windows open it was a tuesday night we had to sort it fast we'd lived in our house for five years and had never once used the alarm we had no idea what the code was to us the alarm console functioned only as a poorly designed shelf in the cupboard under the stairs We took action, ripping the alarm console off the wall, making sure to hack through the wires with a knife.

Do not do that at home.

This did nothing.

We turned things on and off in the fuse box.

We didn't understand.

To no avail.

The alarm was really, really loud, deafening.

We lived in a cul-de-sac.

Neighbours were starting to stick their heads out of the window.

Things were getting desperate.

Get a shovel, my husband shouted.

What now?

I can lean out of the window and prize the alarm box off the house.

Oh my.

Surely a foolproof plan.

There was no shovel in the shed, but I bought him back the next best thing, a lawn etcher.

Armed with this, he opened the window, ready to go.

It's too loud, he shouted.

Wrap a scarf around my head.

Unfortunately, the window only had a top-flap opening.

He was now strangely contorted to hang out of it with a scarf wrapped around his head and wearing only his pants.

The whole street could see all of this, as his bottom half was pressed against the window.

The alarm kept on ringing.

Pricing the alarm off the house took at least five further minutes of extreme physical exertion.

Curtains twitched, the tension grew.

Eventually, the alarm popped popped off the side of the house and into the front garden, and the ringing slowly faded away.

My husband was a hero, but I imagine it was hard to feel heroic standing on a windowsill, holding a lawn edger with a scarf wrapped around your head, wearing only your pants, and having woken up the whole street.

Sarah, I bet they didn't sleep.

Oh no, you'd what a surge of adrenaline that would be.

Yeah.

Oh my god, this really made me laugh.

Hello, my handsome little rascals.

Ellis's memory of a year seven child taking a bottle of wine on the school bus to gift his teacher reminded me of one of the most ridiculous conversations I've ever had.

I work in a primary school and a few years ago on the penultimate day of the school year, a five-year-old boy approached me on the playground and said, my dad wants to know what beer you like.

Being someone who enjoys drinking and talking about beer, I answered without hesitation.

I mostly drink low-to-mid-strength real ale that leans more towards hoppy rather than malty, paler the better.

Understandably, the child looked non-plussed with this information.

He paused for a moment and stared at me, presumably trying to decode the baffling information he just received, before scuttling back off to his dad on the other side of the playground.

That was a peculiar chat of the five-year-old, I thought to myself.

The following morning, the child pulled four bottles of San Miguel out of his paw patrol racksack and presented them to me.

Thanks for all the hashtag content.

All the best.

Mr.

Wilbury.

Love that.

Holy.

Ended with his, you know,

with his proper name.

Very good stuff.

Well, folks, that's almost all.

But we're going to end on our new feature, aren't we, Dave?

Ask us anything.

Yes.

This wonderful jingle.

I'm in a better headspace to listen to the jingle today.

It's a great jingle.

It just blindsided me a bit at the end of alarm/slash parachute gates.

Yes, that was a big, a lot to take on board.

To then have to listen to that, which, you know, I suppose it's supposed to be quite good.

It's fine.

Michael's done a great job of putting it to music.

He has.

And We heard that last week, Dave.

Let's hear the jingle.

Ask us anything, anything you wanna know.

Is it sunny, is it rainy, or is it gonna snow?

Send your questions in, answers you will surely get.

What's your shoe size?

What's the name of your very first pet?

If you're curious, get in such a

way.

Are you roll-on?

Are you natural?

Or are you spray?

There we go.

I said that that wouldn't feel out of place on Transformer by Lou Reed, and I stand by that.

I don't understand that.

Because that's.

Is that what you're doing?

You've not heard Transformer by Lou Reid, or you're ordering Perishing some minor branding.

Good grief, man.

Yeah, maybe I've not.

But in my...

I need to get Transformer.

It's a Lou Reid album with Perfect Day on it.

Yeah, but that doesn't sound anything like Perfect Day.

No, there's a song called

New York.

Conversation.

But it's also, I mean...

It's not a million miles away from the style of elements of Berlin, even though the tone is drastic.

It's very different.

I listened to three in the sad van yesterday.

I listened to three Lou Reed albums back to back, and I had a great time.

I just listened to Cannon the Train, and we performed in the same venue as Can did in 1976 when we were at the Cambridge Corn Exchange, and that's got a spring of my step for four days.

Yeah, good.

Okay, I'll give it, yeah, I'll give it a go.

You've got to, you've got to.

You have to.

Transformer's great, and it's the more successful one.

I have listened to Transformer because I heard you two banging on about eight years ago.

Transformer's brilliant.

But I can't remember what apart from perfect day what else is on it so yeah I'll give it a listen I just I find it hard to

not not pouring scorn over my own artistic integrity here but if it's anything like that it's terrible well the the first time I listened to it was with Robin we were we bought I bought a copy of Transformer in Bristol in like 1998 we went back to Robin's house and put it on and we were so excited and we just kept laughing because it's full of trombones and right yeah yeah so we were thinking what on earth is this And then you listen to it and it just sort of grows on you.

I don't think it's his best album.

I don't think it's his most accessible album, actually.

What's his most accessible?

His first album, Lou Reid, really?

He's amazing.

And

growing up in public is quite good, but he is by that point in his fretless bass era.

Oh, no.

Which lasted until his death.

Oh, right.

He was big into the fretless bass.

He's got to be a key man.

He's got a lot of fretless bass.

I think it's one of the most horrible sounds.

Sometimes it really works, sometimes it really doesn't.

John Deakin only used it once on one queen track.

I think it's bad.

Okay.

We'll tell that to Fernando Saunders, who's bassist.

All right, I will.

Who would get you?

Yeah, I think he would deck me.

Yeah,

he'd come and get you.

And he'd hit me with his big fretless bass.

Anyway, Dave, ask us anything.

Oh, great.

Okay, yes.

Let me...

Are there any particular ones that you do like?

I haven't read them, Dave.

Oh, really?

By surprise?

Okay, great.

Kevin.

Hello, you pair of wobbly jellies.

Yes.

On the subject of asking you anything, I wondered how tall you both are.

Simple one to kick us off, warm as up.

Simple one to kick us off.

Five foot seven.

And I know that on the nose because I got measured by a lady who works for the Legal and General.

Did you?

Okay.

When I was sorting out

a critical illness cover.

She measured it.

She came round to the house and measured us.

Like the nurse in school.

Yeah.

I'd not been measured since, like, what?

Since I was about 12 or something.

I had no idea.

I think she wanted to know my BMI.

Right.

So she put some scales around on a measuring tape and she measured me.

Amazing.

I was like, oh, thanks.

Six foot.

Six foot, me too.

Yeah.

Bang on six.

Good stuff.

Okay, from Nikki.

If you had to cook a dish to impress someone, what would you make?

So what's like your staple.

dish if you were to impress someone in what in what well okay let's say let's say first date round at your gaff you've got to cook a meal for someone else.

No, it's not Izzy.

No, it's not.

Let's pretend Izzy doesn't exist just for a second and think about first date meal that would come across as sensitive but ambitious.

My favourite thing to cook is a dish called Anne tuna, which was invented by my friend Anne.

Right.

But I think it's quite basic.

I don't know.

What's an tuna?

It's...

Because Izzy makes Izzy salmon, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Anne tuna was invented by Anne.

Yeah.

And it's tuna, uh olive oil black pepper butter beans anchovies and parsley but it is very and i often have that with broccoli and kale and maybe a little bit of pasta but it is basic so i would sounds like it's been read off a plan

sounds like it's been it's been um sort of you think you've written a spreadsheet of all your meals yeah so it's that can impress someone yeah so i would go i would go and it's not a nutritionist

i would go mushroom risotto.

Oh, nice.

It's probably my flashiest meal.

Or a bolognese or chili concarni, but it would take ages.

And, you know, I'd be trying to entertain the woman who's not easy.

Chili concarni is quite a good one because it can just simmer away, and you could have made a majority of it before they turn up for the date.

It's what mums make, though, isn't it?

It's not what you would impress

a date with chili connially.

What if my date loves

minced beef?

I mean, I guess it's one thing about it, it's pretty safe is that you can sort of tweak the flavor as you're going along.

Yeah.

So you'd be hard-pushed to make a bad choppy.

And I could chop up some chilies.

So if my date, who's not dizzy, wants to spice it up, she's got that option.

John?

Well, the problem is, Dave, I've fallen foul of this very problem myself.

No, I'd make a big Sunday dinner is what I'd make.

No.

That's not as romantic as a mushroom.

I'd make Christmas dinner.

It would take hours.

No, you've locked in mushroom risotto.

That's locked in.

That's it.

That's safe.

Well,

the problem I have is I make things too spicy.

Yes.

And it's got to be accessible.

You can sort of

unintentionally tell how much the date is into you by how far they get through their meal before they have to stop.

Yeah.

What a lovely romantic test.

What you're making is a lovely romantic test.

Yeah, sort of like that.

Can you pass my romance test?

That sort of hot wings challenge that's on YouTube.

I would go for a Kale and Paneer sag.

Okay, yeah, that sounds good.

So not particularly spicy then.

No, it's a Mira Soda recipe.

It's very nice.

And I would serve that with some roti.

Oh, that sounds good.

Great.

Nice.

Good.

I mean, that's that's do you want one more?

Go on then.

Who are doing an arm wrestle?

We don't want to be arm wrestling.

We're tired, aren't we?

Ellis is only on 45 minutes sleep.

I think that was a tough call.

I think Ellis might stand a chance with his new benching.

Also, does it help to have shorter arms in an arm wrestle?

It's all technique from what I've never

arm wrestled since I was about 11, but from what I gather.

I don't ever want to find out.

I don't want to find out.

No, I don't want to find out.

Oh, I once watched a rugby player break his arm arm wrestling on like...

It happened in World's Strongest Man, and then they banned it from there.

Oh, really?

Because if you're of of equal strength it's whoever's got the weakest bone loses because the bone breaks because it becomes the weakest link in the chain yes he was it was it was a competition on australian telly it was a lot of rugby league players uh in a sort of like a world cup of arm wrestling and his arm broke in the final and it was though i did see a good video on um on uh Instagram of an American arm wrestling because it's quite big in America.

It is, yeah, yeah.

Two guys arm wrestling and one of them is just sat down, he's ready to go, young chap.

And then this sort of middle-aged guy is just constantly trying to psych him out.

Like, won't the referee is having a go at him because he won't like clasp hands properly, keeps stepping away from the table, just being really arrogant, trying to get in his head.

And then they start, and the other guy just immediately beats him.

Good.

It's brilliant.

That's good.

Justice.

Well, you can send your ask us anythings to ellisandjohn at bbc.co.uk, and we'll be back with you in the Bureau, which is on BBC Sounds, and then on Tuesday again next week.

Oh, with a road to nowhere, of course, where we'll do a little audio log.

Oh, lovely, yes.

And Tuesday

of travelling around.

Lovely.

Say bye-bye, Alice.

Goodbye.

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