#491 - The PM, 10 Downing Street and A Big Chinese

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Speaker 1 Hello, listeners. Thank you very very much for downloading Ellis and John.
Some weeks are 4-4-2 weeks. Some weeks we phone it in.

Speaker 1 No, no, I mean,

Speaker 1 some weeks I phone it in.

Speaker 1 However,

Speaker 1 that's a huge, if true.

Speaker 1 Of course, I'm not phoning it in. The point I'm trying to make is some weeks are bigger than others, and this is the biggest of all weeks, I would say, because

Speaker 1 following a shock meeting at number 10,

Speaker 1 I am now Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and John is Chancellor of the Exchequer. So, congratulations.
Congratulations, John. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 And obviously, a lot of work on because I've got to come up with a budget in, what, six days? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't really be here. I shouldn't be here, but I like to connect with the people because obviously I'm going to be releasing my budget to them.
And you're also new media over old media.

Speaker 1 Big time.

Speaker 1 So podcasts are where it's at, isn't it? Podcasts are where it's at. Instagram is my preferred method of communication.
Yeah. And I take a much more relaxed approach to

Speaker 1 the dress code at

Speaker 1 PMQs. Yeah.
It's queen t-shirts. It's geese hoodies.
I mean,

Speaker 1 you're TikToking from the dispatch box. Yeah.
Badenock tries to get a word in Edgeways. There's a bomb in my car.

Speaker 1 That's a geese song. Did it, did it?

Speaker 1 There's a bomb in my car.

Speaker 1 Did it, did it? Which locks it down. Police and the security are like, what? What did he say? She's got no response to that.
I think that song's a bit much.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, that's because you're old, granddaddy. No, I'm not.
I'm not.

Speaker 1 I've got an

Speaker 1 answer a little bit too much. But

Speaker 1 I like it.

Speaker 1 But hey, we're back to geese again. What's it like to be 20th century, Dave? No, I like the album.
The album's good. I'm just.
I'm just soft music. I think the opening track a bit shouty.

Speaker 1 Yes, two weeks ago I received a letter from the Prime Minister.

Speaker 1 It said, Dear the right honourable good Sir Lord Sir Johnny J.R., Captain, Baronet of the Western Isles, and all appropriate regalias, B.A. M.
A. Oxon and Barr,

Speaker 1 M.D.

Speaker 1 The great Sir High, Sir Lord, Sir Admiral, the Right Sir Honourable, Sir Venerable Sir Keir Starmer,

Speaker 1 would like your audience and private conversations therein

Speaker 1 in order to discuss high matters of state, high orders of import.

Speaker 1 And Ellis will be.

Speaker 1 Ellis may come if he insists

Speaker 1 after a strip search. Yeah, I did get strip searched.
Did you? I had to put my bug through like an airport scanner. I'm not surprised.
And he had to delete half of his old Facebook posts.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 And which, thereon, please be at number 10 Downing Street for 6.45pm.

Speaker 1 Therein, with love and regards and high and high esteem. Kiss.
Kiss. Peace out.
Forwarded many times.

Speaker 1 Sakir Starmer, Captain.

Speaker 1 So I... I took Ellis along.
Yeah. Do you want to just make clear what's happened at this stage? Yeah, because that was lovely.
At the moment, it all sounds like a big lie. Yes.

Speaker 1 I was invited to number 10.

Speaker 1 Downing Street.

Speaker 1 London to discuss matters of high import. Yes.
True. Yes.

Speaker 1 And I was there. With Keir Starmer, and Ellis was there.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I got to meet Jamie Carrick. And Ellis got to meet Jamie Carrick.
In a three-piece suit. Who was wearing a three-piece suit?

Speaker 1 So we went to number 10 Downing Street. to high applause from well-wishers.
Because

Speaker 1 it was, what day was it? It was a special day. It was Wednesday.
It was International Men's Day. It was International Men's Day.
And they were holding an event to

Speaker 1 cover off mental health brackets general

Speaker 1 common men. Okay.

Speaker 1 Hyphen physical health. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the Prime Minister. Amazingly obtuse way to speak for a good communicator, John.

Speaker 1 And the Prime Minister was making an announcement about a partnership with the Premier League, whereby mental health support is available at the grounds. Yeah.

Speaker 1 to i think the phrase is to meet men where they are yes so to not yeah sometimes on the toilet yeah

Speaker 1 because sometimes buying a busty a barrier to getting support is sort of changing your routine or not wanting people necessarily to know that you're looking for support so to get to a football ground 20 minutes earlier to access some kind of counseling support, some information is less of a disruption to your week than saying, well, you need to go

Speaker 1 to this place. And it sounds less intimidating as well.
Yes, definitely. And I think also couching it in the surroundings that are familiar to you makes you feel more comfortable.

Speaker 1 So you can get help and possibly meet Gunasaurus at the same time.

Speaker 1 But the Prime Minister, Dave, wanted to talk

Speaker 1 a few things through. Now, this is actually true.
This sounds like one of John's flight to fantasies, but this is actually true. It is.

Speaker 1 I think we should explain what happens.

Speaker 1 We have not had enough of experts, Dave.

Speaker 1 So get in the brightest and the best. And Ellis will be there.
And Ellis will be there. So we arrived.
Ellis was carrying a lot of my papers.

Speaker 1 And we went into a...

Speaker 1 And his Freddie Burke jacket. And my Freddy Burgery jacket.
We went into a big white. And all of his awards.
A big wheel. A big wheel bathroom.

Speaker 1 He had the Taskmaster trophy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Host of Games trophy and the Edinburgh Comedy Award. There was a mingling zone.
Of course there was. We went into the mingling zone.

Speaker 1 I got to meet the MP for Gloucester. I got to meet the MP for Pontepreath.
I also got to meet Mr. Burton from Educating Yorkshire.
It was very, very exciting. That is exciting.
He's a listener.

Speaker 1 He's not. He is.

Speaker 1 He said, hello, Alice. Hello, John.
I was like, oh, my, oh, my God.

Speaker 1 You're Mr. Burton from Educating Yorkshire.
That's really cool. We were then approached by an aide.

Speaker 1 and several security staff. This is true.
Yeah. And we were whisked off to a private pre-meet.
Who's we? Ellis and I. Hold on, just you and Alice.
And Jamie Carragher.

Speaker 1 And my fellow Bobby and his wife. Yay, who's a testicular cancer survivor.
Great.

Speaker 1 And a few others as well.

Speaker 1 I think the chair of charity Fatherhood. Fatherhood, yeah.
Fatherhood UK, I think they call it. Fatherhood UK, yes.
And the boy who ran, the boy from Hull, who ran from John O'Keeffe.

Speaker 1 from Land's End to John O'Groats to raise money for mind. Yes.
17 years old.

Speaker 1 They all wanted a private audience with me as well.

Speaker 1 So they formed a queue, PM at the back, unfortunately. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I shook hands, had photos, asked them about the work they did. Yeah.
This is not a lie, by the way. This sounds like a flight of fancy.
I was there. What do you mean it's not a lie?

Speaker 1 In that being, Dave,

Speaker 1 it's not a queue to meet John. Being whisked away by an aide at 10 Downing Street so John can meet the Prime Minister sounds like bollocks.

Speaker 1 That is actually true. But it sounds like bollocks, Steve.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, the aid came while I was halfway through a delicious prawn canopy. That's also true.
So I panicked and put it in my pocket.

Speaker 1 So throughout...

Speaker 1 Sauce and all.

Speaker 1 Oh, they are quite saucy. Throughout my meeting with the Prime Minister, I did have half a tempura prawn in my sauce and all

Speaker 1 that I fiddled with nervously. Yeah, all of a sudden.
Oh, don't fiddle with it. Just forget about it.

Speaker 1 He fiddles fiddles with his nerve prawn.

Speaker 1 His nervousness prawn. It's like his fidget spinner.
Like a little send down. It's one of those stress spalls.

Speaker 1 It's a deep fright, stress spot.

Speaker 1 And I also had runner's nipples because I'd been out for a 5k in the snow. He'd been so brave.
And my nipples were extremely erect and extremely painful.

Speaker 1 You know when they just go and you can't settle them down? It looks like Johnny. It looks like John is extremely sexually attracted to power.

Speaker 1 So as soon as he walked into 10 Downing Street, his nipples became erect. So I had a prawn in my pocket.
My nipples were on fire. He was pleased to see me.

Speaker 1 And I discussed podcasting with the Prime Minister. Yeah.
Is he a PCD?

Speaker 1 He is a PM CD.

Speaker 1 Okay. A Prime Minister cast devotee.
There are, although I did talk to members of his team and they are listeners, which is insane to me. Great.

Speaker 1 We're the most politically significant podcast on earth, Div. So

Speaker 1 I also gave him some tips for, you know, the economy,

Speaker 1 welfare state, international affairs, and he seemed to take them on board. Yeah.
I have to say. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it's... So we're raising tariffs on the US now in a sort of tit for tat.

Speaker 1 So if you notice the country at a heightened state of readiness,

Speaker 1 you have me to thank.

Speaker 1 Certain protocols will be enacted. A sort of martial law of a kind may be visited upon the people at my behest.

Speaker 1 And who knows? Will Robbins reign supreme and rise up?

Speaker 1 A seed has been planted, I will say no more.

Speaker 1 My imposter symbols.

Speaker 1 Will Robbins reign supreme and rise up? We'd love you to have you on our podcast. My imposter syndrome was through the roof, Dave.
Yeah, my sort of imposter syndrome. Arrogance.
Yes,

Speaker 1 I was fitting in. His arrogance disease.
Like a duck to water in a glove. Your arrogance syndrome.
I thought I could get used to this.

Speaker 1 AIDS. Yeah.
Yeah. Security details.
The security guy at 10 Downing Street must be 7'4. Talk to me about this.

Speaker 1 He must.

Speaker 1 It was like it being on a film set. John is six foot.
And this guy towered over John. Do you think he could have squashed me with his hands? It was

Speaker 1 incredible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's important to say, I think, so this sort of day, International Men's Day, when you're covering something as broad as mental well-being for men, it transcends policies and politics, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 It's wide.

Speaker 1 It's wider and bigger than that. Well, that's what I said to Keir.
I said, Keir, today

Speaker 1 is about

Speaker 1 communicating a vision for Britain. Yes.
A brighter Britain. A bolder Britain.
A Britain that backs business. A Briton that has the balls to be bold.
Or true.

Speaker 1 And he was making notes. He was saying, can I use that? Jimmy Connada staring into the middle distance.
Sakia going, can you smell prawns?

Speaker 1 Tom fiddles away.

Speaker 1 It wasn't a party political day. No.
And that's important.

Speaker 1 Why is that important, Dave? It just is, isn't it? Would you like us to say that we also had an audience with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenock, and Ed Davey? Yes. Because that would be a lie.

Speaker 1 They were all there. It would be a busy day, wouldn't it? It would have been a busy day.
It would have been a very odd day. Yeah, yeah.
Oh, and by the way, Div, I went and spent a day with the SNP.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's fine. Good.
No, it's absolutely fine. I'm just, I'm obviously just being a little bit playful, but

Speaker 1 it's an important cause. It's great.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 there were about, I would say, 200 people there. Yeah.
Those are some International Men's Day event. And who was at the audience? Who was at the special audience before? Who was at the pre-meet?

Speaker 1 Before it told you. Yeah, no, but it wasn't listening.
Yeah, no, I am listening, but in terms of numbers compared to 200 people.

Speaker 1 What? You're in the top six. This was absolutely mad.
Wow.

Speaker 1 As a percentage of 200, it's 3%.

Speaker 1 I saw footage of us. I think it might have been on Sky News.
Where obviously there were cameras in for the pre-meet. Now, something I will discuss probably on Tuesday's show.
I've got bed bugs.

Speaker 1 I've got...

Speaker 1 Yes, I've also got bed bugs. Right.
What? Get them the hell away from me. No, we're all right.
Which means we're all wearing a bed.

Speaker 1 What if they're in that, Dave?

Speaker 1 It's not that part of the house. I'll explain in a minute.
And

Speaker 1 so I had to wear my second 11 outfit. Did you? Which was something I never thought would happen.
I thought you look great. But

Speaker 1 obviously, I felt quite uncomfortable being in the sort of corridors of power. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 I think it was on Sky News, one of the news programmes, where they were filming the pre-meet.

Speaker 1 And as soon as the camera started drawing it, when I'm interested in someone, I fold my arms. Oh, I've seen you.

Speaker 1 So So I was folding my arms. Then I thought, hang on, I look bored.
I can't look bored for the Prime Minister. So then I went Leah McGullagher arms behind the back.
Then I thought...

Speaker 1 No, you went arms in front first.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen this. Yeah,

Speaker 1 let me go. I want to see it.
So that's,

Speaker 1 oh, yeah, yeah. Because he looks at you at one point and realises you look a lot relaxed.
And then Carragher was arms in front, right? So I thought I was.

Speaker 1 Like in a wall for a free kick. Exactly like that.
So it looked like I was covering my genitals

Speaker 1 in the wall for a free kick. So then you just put your hands in the air.
So I did. So I sort of,

Speaker 1 so I cut, I thought, I thought, okay, arms folded, even though I am interested, makes me look bored.

Speaker 1 I'll do what Jamie's doing, cupping my genitals. I thought, no, that looks mad.
It doesn't feel very, it doesn't feel very natural.

Speaker 1 So then I did the Liam, arms behind the back, and that didn't feel quite right. Then I thought, John's arms are just by his side, and that looks good.
Oh, yeah. So then I did arms by the side.

Speaker 1 All of this happens in about five seconds.

Speaker 1 It looks like

Speaker 1 a dance.

Speaker 1 It just loops. So you just watch watch it a few times because you kind of catch more the more you watch it.

Speaker 1 He looks at me, arms down, arms behind.

Speaker 1 Very good. I want to see that.
What do you do with your arms when you're on the corridor sense power? That's so true.

Speaker 1 I've never known what to do with my arms and my hands. No.

Speaker 1 I used to get criticised a lot on Twitter. I presented.

Speaker 1 Let me read some of the comments.

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 1 How do you put this on silent day?

Speaker 1 I presented a TV show on

Speaker 1 BBC Wales called

Speaker 1 Funny Nation, which is about the history of Welsh comedy. Then I did one about football, Football Nation.
So there'd be lots of sort of walk and talk.

Speaker 1 So I'd be walking down the street explaining what was going to be happening in the next sort of interview or whatever. But again, what do you do with your arms? What do you give your arms?

Speaker 1 So I constantly look like I was holding a sort of invisible box.

Speaker 1 And people who aren't necessarily listeners to the show and want to get at me would then tweet me sort of gifs of me holding an invisible box. So ever since then, I have been very, very

Speaker 1 self-conscious about what to do with my arms. I'm in the corridor of corridors of palm.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of people talking about my relaxed, powerful stance. Yeah, because there's people talking about my blazer, and then people just saying Ellis doesn't know what to do with his hands.

Speaker 1 This is on the PCD group. Someone's posted it on the podcast Evo T Facebook group.
And there.

Speaker 1 That's good to know. It's it's it's it's a It's quite a detailed commentary on Ellis's various hand positions.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And John said that I looked like the youngest manager in the history of Queen's Park Rangers football club in London. Yeah, that was the look.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which I didn't mind.

Speaker 1 But Carragher's wearing a three-piece suit. So I think if I, but we were told on the invite, it says smart casual.
If you'd worn a three-piece suit, you'd have looked like a child genius,

Speaker 1 like an antique sort of. Yeah, yeah, that's not your vibe.
I know.

Speaker 1 I did wear a three-piece suit to the Welsh Grafters once.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, I'm sure you'd pull it off. So I've added Keir Starmer to the Small Willie Club.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because he does have time to wordle, that's the thing. He's got time to wordle.
He did bring up Wordle, did you? Of course I didn't bring up Wordle, Dave.

Speaker 1 What do you mean, of course, you didn't bring up Wordle? That's not. I brought up mental health.
I brought up podcasts. And Ellis was there.
And Ellis was there, Dave. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So who knows? Who knows whether we might be having an extended chat with the Prime Minister at some point about what it's like to be the Prime Minister. That'd be nice.

Speaker 1 And how, potentially, he copes with that. Ellis.

Speaker 1 Whatever could he mean? And then.

Speaker 1 Then we went for a big Chinese. Did you? Great.
With Sakia. No, not with Sakia.
No, he had stuff on, I think. Yeah, he's always got stuff.

Speaker 1 He's very hard to pin down.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Ellis and I went for, you know, let's not beat around the bush, the most expensive meal I've ever had. Well, is it in central London near 10 Downing Street? Yeah, well, I googled

Speaker 1 Chinese near 10 Downing Street and happened to the one that was the closest happened to be highly executive. You weren't at the Chinese Embassy, were you?

Speaker 1 It was o it's opposite the Canadian Embassy, I think. Yeah.
Um, but oh, and you found the truck square. Yeah.
Do you know what? Uh, the food is very nice, the staff were very nice.

Speaker 1 There was a table of, I think, Man United fans. Yeah, I think think Man United fans.
Absolutely wrecked. Complete beasts.
Yes. And doing chants.
Yeah, you get that with United fans.

Speaker 1 Oh, they hate Scousers, don't they? Man United. They were chanting we hate scousers in a place where the rice is 14 quid.
Like the boiled rice.

Speaker 1 It was like Saturday night cheap Chinese atmosphere in the most expensive Chinese restaurant in London. Yeah, but you know what really annoyed me is, so we asked, I asked if we could move.

Speaker 1 And it's, you know, it's drunk people being drunk people we've all been there it was earlier though we were in there at half past eight and they were in there already and it was a Wednesday night trying to see what they were there for they're there because it's very exclusive or it's very expensive and they think they belong there and they can behave how they want because they've got a lot of money but it struck me that actually fancy places like that which I never go to are not actually full of the elite they're full of regular people who are having their one treat of the year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the wannabe elites. Well, no, not the wannabe.
It's their anniversary or they've got a promotion or they want to treat themselves because it's a birthday and they think, do you know what?

Speaker 1 Let's go to that place we've always wanted to go. Where do the elite do the elites go then? They go to like private clubs and stuff.
Oh, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 Or they have their own chef. Oh, yeah.
So this table of absolute beasts. Beasts.
Some of the worst people on earth. Yes.
And a woman who was trying to calm them down. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Don't know if she supported the United or not. She wasn't doing any chanting.
She was quite embarrassed. Yeah.
She was scouse neutral, I would say. But they were just ruining

Speaker 1 a night that people will have saved up for, looked forward to,

Speaker 1 for weeks and weeks. Yeah.
Because they're just entitled scum. They're scum.
Yeah, yeah. They are the scum of the earth.

Speaker 1 I was thinking about this Chinese throughout my meeting with the Prime Minister.

Speaker 1 The food was unreal. Oh, they dropped my sauce on the floor as well.
Did your prawn fall out at that point? No, I had more prawns. They dropped my sauce on the floor.

Speaker 1 So I had to wait while the chefs made more sauce and then my prawns went cold. You do love a prawn? I love a prawn.
Yeah. Anyway, so

Speaker 1 that's our week. What a day.
What a day. It was a big day and a proud moment for me and Ellis.
And we took a moment to think that,

Speaker 1 you know, 25 years ago, 25 years ago, 20 years ago, we met in a pub doing stand-up, really scared about dying on our ass.

Speaker 1 And now we're meeting the old bloomin' Papa Mike

Speaker 1 at 10 Deltering Sierra. And there's a 12 Downing Street.
Yeah. Which you never see on the news.
Is that next to 10?

Speaker 1 It's on the left-hand side, yeah, as you're facing the, as you're facing 10 Downing Street. So is 11 on the other side? Yeah.

Speaker 1 What's weird is... I don't really know what's behind.
No, no,

Speaker 1 it goes 11. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 It must go 10, 11, 12. Yeah.
But what this there's the staircase. Oh, you're not allowed to take your phone in, so you can't take any photos.
Yeah, um,

Speaker 1 there's a there's a cloakroom like it's a club, is that? Yeah, it's like dancing with Dave,

Speaker 1 you get a ticket,

Speaker 1 so there's you've got to hand, obviously, you hand your court and you're not going to stand there in your court, and then you've got to hand your phone in, so you're not allowed to take photos.

Speaker 1 But there's the famous staircase with the photo, with the picture or sort of portrait of every prime minister. Where Hugh Grant dances past.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't get that far in the film, so I'm assuming so. But yeah, but you know, so I lingered next to Lloyd George, George, Dave.
Of course, you did. Um, I had to linger next to Clement Atley.

Speaker 1 12 Downing Street was historically served as the office for the Chief Whip. Currently, it houses the Prime Minister's press office and strategic communications units.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Whereas the Chief Whip's residence is now at number nine Downing Street. What's in 11? That's the Chancellor.

Speaker 1 But Brown lived there when he was PM. Yeah, and they swapped, didn't they? Because he's got a better loo.
Yeah, and

Speaker 1 Blair had a bigger family, so I think they swapped the the flats. Is it big? Is it big once you're in? Because it looks small from the outside.

Speaker 1 It's an old Georgian house. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it's.

Speaker 1 But with

Speaker 1 the Prime Minister, whoever that is, lives in a flat upstairs. It would be five luxury flats.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a nice. It's not like a White House.
No. But how much of it can he live in, do you think, compared to what people are working on? It's not a flat at the top.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think you'd be surprised how it's not. Because there are reception rooms for meeting Barack Obama.
It's very fancy, and the artwork is gorgeous. I bet.

Speaker 1 Well, all the artwork next to the clockroom, next to the Dancing with Dave bit, was from Plymouth because it's City of Culture. And before that, all the artwork had been from Bradford

Speaker 1 when that was City of Culture. But I think it would be strange living somewhere where it's basically your office and it's full of security and lots of.
That's what I find cool.

Speaker 1 It'd be like if we slept under the desk

Speaker 1 on the scene where we record Ellis and John ready to work. I mean, I work from my office every day at home and then I go upstairs and go to bed.
So it's exactly the same as what I do.

Speaker 1 I suppose

Speaker 1 Carrie Johnson, Boris Johnson's wife, were they married at the time? I can't remember. But she didn't like the way Theresa Mayo decorated the flat.
She said it was a little bit too John Lewis. Yes.

Speaker 1 So they've got quite mad wallpaper and stuff. It's like proper crazy posh person wallpaper.
Like, I don't even know where you get it from, but it's nuts. It's like a magic eye.

Speaker 1 It's got peacocks on it and it costs 10 grand a roll.

Speaker 1 What do you think?

Speaker 1 Is that Serquia's turn? No, that's that's Jerry Johnson.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he has redecorated again. I'm not sure what the optics would be around.
Would you want to live in Johnson's wallpaper? Well, no, because it'd be feel like I was on acid.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So there you go.

Speaker 1 I'm glad you took a moment because I was thinking about that in the week because obviously I knew you were going and I thought, I do hope they

Speaker 1 do take a little bit of time because it's huge. Yeah.
It's huge. It's very proud of you both.
I mean, the moment you get used to going to 10 Downing Street,

Speaker 1 you've lost the plot. Yeah.
Right. I haven't had a chance to read the emails because I was stuck on an absolute disaster of a train.
Why didn't you read them on the trains? They're emailed to you.

Speaker 1 Because I was doing my crosswords. Okay.
Right. Shows where your priorities lie.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 but he never phones it in. No, no, no.
He never phones it in. Even though he's had an hour and 40 minutes to read the emails, that's fine.

Speaker 1 Hello, my cheeky little chickens. I'm a primary school teacher.

Speaker 1 When the children come into my classroom in in the mornings or complete independent work, I like to pop on a bit of quiet, calm music to get them settled.

Speaker 1 Being the young, hip-and-cool teacher that I am, I usually opt for instrumental versions or piano covers of popular music.

Speaker 1 In the nice Chinese we were in, they played a sort of smooth, mellow version of Bitch by Meredith Brooks, which was very, very interesting.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child. That's Meredith Brooks.
Yeah. I'm a mother, I'm a sinner, I'm a sinner.
I think I thought I thought that was Alanis Morissette. No.
Interesting.

Speaker 1 Same sort of vibe. Yeah.

Speaker 1 When John mentioned that he had playlists for crosswords and for meditation, I thought, great, I'll give them a go.

Speaker 1 So I popped John's playlist on one Monday morning as the children arrived for the day. It was going well.

Speaker 1 The children arrived and settled remarkably quickly, getting on with their morning tasks without talking. This playlist has changed the game, I thought.
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 Fast forward to Wednesday, and the children settled with John's music for crosswords playing in the background, but something was off. One of the boys had his head in his hands.

Speaker 1 When I asked him what was wrong, he said, I feel sad, but I don't know why.

Speaker 1 Two children who usually work well together would not stop bickering and were sitting with their backs to each other. On Thursday morning, two children were in tears coming in.

Speaker 1 Strange, I thought, but it was only on Friday that it clicked. Friday rolled around, and I pressed play on the playlist, feeling smug that I'd won teaching via musical behaviour management.

Speaker 1 Everyone's vaping at this point.

Speaker 1 To my surprise, the child put her hand up. Do we have to listen to this again? She asked, puzzled.
I asked her if she didn't like the music.

Speaker 1 I like the music, but it makes me feel tired and sad, she replied. Another boy,

Speaker 1 this is incredible, right? Get ready for this.

Speaker 1 Another boy piped up. It makes me feel numb.

Speaker 1 He's eight.

Speaker 1 Needless to say, I will save a crossword playlist for my own personal deep focus time. I will stick to Harry Styles' piano covers for my class from now on.

Speaker 1 John's music is great for calming, but not so good for classroom morale, smooches and non. P.S.

Speaker 1 We also used to do the wordle together, but I had to stop as the children were having a negative effect on my average. Ah.

Speaker 1 Yes. The playlist is intense.
Yeah. But it's also very soothing.
It makes me feel numb.

Speaker 1 And bizarrely, the playlist was created because music with lyrics was making me feel too sad. So in my landscape, it's sort of uplifting or neutral.

Speaker 1 Why do you just listen to Frell Williams happy all the time?

Speaker 1 I think that would be awful. Yeah, John wouldn't like it.
I'd go mad. I do like the song.
Okay.

Speaker 1 It's just, do you remember when you discovered, I think you talked to a nutritionist or something, that your baked salad at lunch was making you very gloomy and tired in the afternoon? Yes.

Speaker 1 Maybe your playlist is the source of all your problems, John. I don't know.
I find it very...

Speaker 1 And I quote, I like the music, but it makes me feel tired and sad.

Speaker 1 it makes me feel numb I think you've got to remember I feel sad but I don't know why but they're eight and two children who usually work well together will not stop bickering were sitting with their backs to each other I wonder if you've got to build up a bit more of a tolerance musical library in your head before you going in with

Speaker 1 well we've got a lot of bach Keith Jarrett's not great Sebalius kids

Speaker 1 Grieg no it's no good Max Richter. Okay.
Because when I was eight, I was listening to the Out Here Brothers and Dario G.

Speaker 1 Strauss. Jesse Norman's Strauss operas are absolutely amazing.
And the bangers. When I was eight.
Oh, my goodness. I was big into Kylie when I was eight.
Aaron Parks. Jason Donovan, to an extent.

Speaker 1 Chesney. Chesney for me.
Phil Cook, Alabaster De Plume.

Speaker 1 All the greats.

Speaker 1 Sorry about that, Anon.

Speaker 1 But, you know, what can I do?

Speaker 1 I've got two. Bless you.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 You did that in front of of the PM? He didn't, did he? No, he didn't.

Speaker 1 Dear Alice, I'm pleased you feel no shame for shaving your shoulders. An odd phrase I never expected to hear from the Britain's most beloved and young broadcasters.
Shaving, however, feels unwise.

Speaker 1 Rapid regrowth and continuing thickness. That's true.
I think that's a myth. They just feel thicker.

Speaker 1 I trim my eyebrows a lot now. Like more so than I should.
So I get a comb over it and just go...

Speaker 1 Yes, that's what I do as well.

Speaker 1 You take off the top. Every three weeks.
But it's becoming...

Speaker 1 The window between me doing it has become

Speaker 1 your age.

Speaker 1 I think it's also because I'm just... It's grown

Speaker 1 quicker.

Speaker 1 It's not a myth.

Speaker 1 Might I recommend your friend and mine, hair removal cream. I don't have a very...
How does that work? And does it burn? It burns the hair, yeah. Oh, no, but it burns your skin, does it?

Speaker 1 It melts the hair. I don't think it does.

Speaker 1 I don't have a very hairy back, but the wispy strands of shame feel tremendously ungamely. And I've recently recruited my daughters to remove this once a quarter.

Speaker 1 It's painless and and wonderful fun for all the family. However, now only one will help me as the last time it made the other one feel sick.
Jeez, Louise.

Speaker 1 Not sure if my kids will do that. Skip the email about how great my poems are and inviting you to your first ever slam poetry event.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because you've met the Prime Minister in the week and your arrogance is at an all-time high. So I'm trying to bring you down.
But you've committed to

Speaker 1 good management slam poetry evening, haven't you, Ellis? Have I? I think you did last week. Yeah, you were quite keen.
Was I? Surprisingly keen, actually. Okay.
Oh, yeah, I was on drugs. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Go on. Maybe you can read it, Dave.

Speaker 1 To the bravest wordsmiths in that there London. The wheel of fate has turned.
I shakily write to you, having experienced the will of the gods. I hope you see it in the same way.

Speaker 1 I run a poetry night called Shout or Whisper just outside of London. And on Thursday night, I was idling the time away before our November community poetry event.

Speaker 1 I know, I thought, I'll put on the latest latest Ellis and John. That'll calm my pre-show nerves.

Speaker 1 So there I was listening to my favourite rapper, Ellis, and his over DJ, John Natter about poetry evenings.

Speaker 1 You asked for listeners to write him with their poetry night recommendations. So here I am, not on a mission to promote my hitchin'-based poetry event.

Speaker 1 We also do free outreach programs to promote mental well-being through the written word. Great.
Talking astonishing. I'm on a mission from the gods.

Speaker 1 Ellis would be so welcome to have his first poetry reading experience with us. We have our final event of the year on the 11th of December.

Speaker 1 Our philosophy is, to paraphrase William Carlos Williams, if you can write a shopping list, you can write a poem. That's not true.
We allow folk of all abilities onto our Wii stage.

Speaker 1 From Robin Inn.

Speaker 1 From Robin Inn

Speaker 1 to absolute beginners, Ellis. Hello.
We pride ourselves in being a broad church. And with a capacity of just 50, it could be ideal for Ellis.
No pressure, of course.

Speaker 1 No pressure, of course. But I fear, should you not heed the signs, you may be ignoring a direct message from the universe.
Love the show forever and always. Will.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 They then, if you'd be so kind. P.S.
John and Dave would get free tickets. No, we pay.

Speaker 1 I'd pay a hell of a lot to watch Ellis do poets. So yeah, don't be under no mistake.
Dave would pay.

Speaker 1 What do you reckon, L? I mean, it's a nice little audience. Nice.
He's looking at his diary. Do you think it's the sort of thing Izzy and Betty would love?

Speaker 1 He's quickly throwing something into the 11th of December to make it look like he's busy. Sorry, I've got to go and visit

Speaker 1 a factory because I'm now Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Well, also.
It's very soon. It is quite quick.
I don't know. Would you...

Speaker 1 If he can write a shopping list, you can write a poem for the 11th. Never done it.
Never written a shopping list. I just go into budge and vibe it.

Speaker 1 I would come down a day early, because I usually come down in the morning of these recordings. I'd come down on a Thursday for 10 minutes.
Yeah, big time. We'd take the external mics with us.

Speaker 1 We absolutely would. We were on pick of the week.
Scout Zophia Bolton chose my poem for Pick of the Week, Ellis, on radio for

Speaker 1 the Prime Minister's favourite programme,

Speaker 1 I imagine.

Speaker 1 And we had this from Alex G. Alex says, I want to right or wrong.
I want to raise up someone who has brought himself down. Once again, John's brilliant mind produces talent it cannot cope with.

Speaker 1 Love that turn of phrase. I don't.

Speaker 1 John's Rick Edwards poem is... You can't cope with yourself.

Speaker 1 That's clear. Yeah, that's clear.
I mean, I could have told you that in 2005.

Speaker 1 John's Rick Edwards poem is Britain's answer to the question, what limits of creativity can a man achieve if they're given eight hours a day of solitude? It was purely exceptional. It was good.

Speaker 1 The rhythm, the rhyme, the passion and meaning behind the words.

Speaker 1 John's ability to put himself into the shoes of Edwards as a gifted but troubled year 11 student speaks to the man, even if he doesn't want to speak to himself.

Speaker 1 In this email, I want to say one thing to John: you have value. You cannot be allowed to lose confidence.

Speaker 1 Don't encourage him. John's advertising gig, the autobiography, including chapters like How to Get Cheadlebody Ready and the BBC Shakespeare Away Day, you're one of Britain's greats.

Speaker 1 We make it clear the listeners won't listen to this rubbish. Alex, I'm going to get you to write my speeches to Keir Starmer because that's good stuff.
Yeah. And I back Alex G.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Alex has a vision for a brighter Britain,

Speaker 1 a bolder Britain that backs business. Okay.
A Britain that has balls on the world stage. I believe in Alex G.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Boisbach, which means little boys, but it's like a sort of an exclamation. You say boispach.
It's a bit like good grief. Okay.

Speaker 1 I enjoy the story of a listener's grandparent who'd whittled a bone to replace a lost tooth. It reminded me of my own grandparent who took drastic actions to not look dentally gappy.

Speaker 1 A few years ago, a cousin was getting married, and I'd been assigned the great honour of being my nan's table companion for the day. Lovely wedding job, that.

Speaker 1 Side note: the groom that day has a fantastic sister.

Speaker 1 It sounds quite partridge, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 I can say that again, maybe laugh. The groom that day has a fantastic sister who is a relatively recent PCD and a future fellow retro won her, hi-ann.
Hi-Anne. Hi-Anne.
Hi-Anne.

Speaker 1 I'd only been chatting to my nan for a few minutes when I noticed one of her bottom teeth appeared to be disintegrating and depositing itself in tiny fragments all over her bottom lip. Oh no.

Speaker 1 Like that Keith Richards interview. Have you seen it? No.

Speaker 1 In the 70s where he's giving an interview about the latest record and his tooth just starts crumbling and he just picks it out. His whole tooth.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Say no to drugs, kids. Or just or just diet, maybe.
Yeah. Yeah, it was diet.
That's what it was. It was his diet.

Speaker 1 He should have drunk more milk.

Speaker 1 Deposited itself in tiny fragments all over her bottom lip. I didn't want to alarm her, but gently pointed it out.
She looked very shy, then guilty, and she giggled.

Speaker 1 That morning, she'd woken up to find one of her bottom teeth had made its escape for reasons unknown, and she faced the prospect of appearing in countless photos with a gap in her smile.

Speaker 1 Her solution, a hastily chewed piece of chewing gum fashioned into a tooth shape and wedged into the gap.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, it just didn't have the structural integrity to last more than half an hour into the day.

Speaker 1 It'll always be one of my favourite memories of a lovely woman who never took herself too seriously, Neil Krdeed, which is Cardiff. And let's not forget, the groom has a fantastic sister called Anne.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 hello to Anne. I mean, chewing, what was it, chewing gum? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's too soft. It is too soft.
It just won't. Yeah, the structural integrity.
I don't know what I'd use.

Speaker 1 I don't think I would try and fashion anything. I just keep my mouth shut for the photos.
To create a fake tooth. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You can get the putty you get when your filling comes out is actually really good. That's what I would use.
I would roll it into a ball and shove it in. What if you didn't have it, though?

Speaker 1 Well, I always have it on me. Oh, of course you do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 This is great from RP. Dear John, your chat about lab condition Wordle reminded me of an incident that truly sets the benchmark.
Back in June, I went solo caving in Cheddar Gorge.

Speaker 1 Little footnote from me, no thanks.

Speaker 1 Yeah, scared of caving because of a really horrible accident that keeps cropping up on my social media. So scared of it.
Yeah, thanks. But I like to Google image caves.

Speaker 1 About 30 minutes in, I got hopelessly lost. No phone signal, no way out.
Just me, a small pack lunch, and four hours of walking in circles, muttering, I'm sure I've seen that stalactite before.

Speaker 1 Resigned to spending the night underground

Speaker 1 I sat down to a very respectable plowman's. Apple smoked cheddar cheese, plum chutney, wholemeal roll and assorted greens.
When Miracle of Miracles my phone suddenly got one bar of signal.

Speaker 1 I was so shocked I nearly choked on a gherkin. I fired it off an SOS to the Caving WhatsApp group and, out of sheer muscle memory, opened Wordle.

Speaker 1 No contact with another human being for twelve hours at this point.

Speaker 1 No clues, no grids. Pure cave-based isolation.
I typed my usual starter. Curse.
Two greens and an orange. I got it in two.
Reuse.

Speaker 1 If that's not true, lab conditions, I don't know what is. And it proves conclusively that Wordle is a silly game played by silly men.
I hadn't read that last bit.

Speaker 1 Well, apart from that last missive, That's the dream. What we do

Speaker 1 is 8 a.m.

Speaker 1 every morning, we line all the wordlers in the country up outside Cheddar Gorge, and they're allowed to enter with 10 minute gaps between them, to do their wordle and then come out the other side and then send their grids.

Speaker 1 I am amazed. Like the queue for a roller coaster.
Yes. Yeah.
Because if that's me, I mean, I know he sent a little SOS off.

Speaker 1 I am panicking beyond belief. I'm saving my battery.
And saving my battery. What is...
That's mad to go to Wordle when you're underground, you don't actually know where the exit is.

Speaker 1 You don't quite know when someone's going to come and rescue you I don't think Wordle would have been my next port of call on my apps I really hope that I instill in my children a great sense of general fear yeah

Speaker 1 and that they never ever ever want to get into caving

Speaker 1 uh this is from tom and allison what a treat it was to see producer dave in his natural habitat on saturday at brammel park run Oh yes. Are you parkrunning, Dave? Oh, my goodness, gross.

Speaker 1 We are parkrunning every Saturday at the minute. Lila, who's eight, did a 27-minute 5K on Saturday.
That's crazy. That is very hilarious.
She's flying. It's great.
It's hilarious.

Speaker 1 It's one of my favourite parts of the week. Park runs.
I know, John, you've done a few. The vibe at a park run.
Thank you, Stuart. Thank you, Steward.
Thank you, Steward.

Speaker 1 Thanks, Stuart. And everybody goes, go on.
And Lila gets so much kind of admiration. Oh, my God, well done, go on.
She's doing the adult one. Yeah, she's doing a 5K.

Speaker 1 I think they do a kids' one on a Sunday morning. Yeah, she's never done a park run.
Yeah. She's never done the kids one.

Speaker 1 Anyway, Anyway, yes, um, so every Saturday is just the most wholesome way to start the week, and I blumming, love it.

Speaker 1 Having been blessed to see the live show in Liverpool, there was a freeson of excitement as we entered his manor in anticipation of observing such a fine physical specimen in the wild for a second time.

Speaker 1 As our regular park run was cancelled, we had wondered whether we might be lucky enough to see our local hero at one of his closest events.

Speaker 1 We dreamed of Dave sporting a park run banner while shouting parkrun vibes in the area to encourage those around him that's a good slogan it is a good slogan the truth however was even more poignant as dave overtook us mere mortals All we could hear was his gentle encouragement of Lila, who was running like a gazelle.

Speaker 1 What a treat to meet a man and his family in the outside cafe at the end of the event and to experience the fantastic family vibes that the master men and women embody. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Best wishes Tom and Alison. Oh, I love that.
Loved meeting Tom and Alison. They came over as we were having a little coffee and I loved to meet them.
Andy and Vala drugs.

Speaker 1 No, she had a little hot coffee. Why does she rush my voice? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you think Lila is going to run for Great Britain? I have dreams. I have dreams as well, Darius.

Speaker 1 And it's something that I'm genuinely excited about, but I'm also aware that I don't want to be overly pushy. But at the moment, she loves it.

Speaker 1 And she's realised that she's suddenly realised over the past few weeks because she does a cross-country on a Saturday morning now that the school's all put on, where she came second out of like 200 people a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 1 So now she knows she's good. So I think she's now quite engaged.
Before she was like, ah, well.

Speaker 1 It can be amazing for kids in that sense. So she loses confidence.
She's really enjoying it. I take her to athletics every Wednesday.

Speaker 1 And while she loves it, I am being quite, I'm making sure she's aware that the practice that she's putting in is why she's now getting sickened in cross-country.

Speaker 1 So there's a correlation and she's starting to understand that, which she loves. That's lovely.
Right.

Speaker 1 Listen to this. Hello, Cherubs.
Listening to John in real time argue himself out to being annoyed at a man encroaching his space on a train reminded me of an experience I had a few years ago.

Speaker 1 Before working from home was the norm, I used to travel from London, Victoria to Crystal Palace during the evening rush hour.

Speaker 1 The train was usually pretty packed by the time it left, and then got even more so as people crowded on at Clapham Junction. And one evening, I witnessed something mad.

Speaker 1 He was a very well-dressed man. I'd say Dapper if I was prone to that sort of language.
He boarded the train to Victoria carrying a bag, a coat and an umbrella. I was sitting at a table for four.

Speaker 1 He sat opposite me, but not before putting his bag and umbrella on separate seats across the aisle and using the seat next to him for his coat.

Speaker 1 Yes, he took up four separate seats for himself and his belongings.

Speaker 1 You can't do that.

Speaker 1 This was amazingly awful behaviour, but I let it go because at that point there were still seats for actual people to use. Actual people,

Speaker 1 not bags.

Speaker 1 Then we got to Clapham Junction. People crowded on.
I watched as some people eyed up the umbrella, bag and caught on the seats, glancing around for the owner.

Speaker 1 At this point, I thought that surely our friend would remove them so people could sit. He did not.
Wow.

Speaker 1 And for whatever reason, the people I up the seats did not feel able to ask who the items belonged to and the request that they were moved. This is crazy.

Speaker 1 This I could not let go. Good on you.
Excuse me, I said politely. Could you please move your things that people can sit down? He looked me in the eyes and said,

Speaker 1 Where would you have me put them?

Speaker 1 I think no jury in the land would have convicted me if I'd said out loud where I would have put them and then followed through with the corresponding action.

Speaker 1 Instead, I said, Oh, I don't know, maybe a bargain umbrella wouldn't mind sharing a seat. Nice.

Speaker 1 There then followed an uncomfortable exchange where he yelled at me for being rude to him. Wow.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 unbelievable. He used the word beast again.

Speaker 1 And I explained that actually he was the rude one. Well, everyone in our section ignored that this was happening and said nothing.
Ungrateful S's of B's. Someone should have pitched in to back her up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's disgraceful, I think. Max for the show, lads.
It's always a right treat to Jackie. That guy,

Speaker 1 I'm not going to use the word I want to use. We know the word.
You're going to say beast again. Yeah.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Right. I think it's time to speak to Adrian and take part in a cultural highlight.

Speaker 6 In Perth, who was at that extraordinary day today.

Speaker 6 So it's just nearly 25 past 12, and it's time for this.

Speaker 1 The Bush Tucker Child.

Speaker 6 And why not? So with the cricketers slugging it out, we're going to get England taking on Australia on a cultural matter. And today, we're slugging it out over Vegmite versus Marmite.

Speaker 6 For the Australians, let's welcome comedian, actor, and writer Felicity Ward. It's good of you to do this, Felicity.

Speaker 6 Are you

Speaker 6 bang up for it? Are you a fan of Vegemite or indeed Marmite or do you hate them both?

Speaker 6 I absolutely adore Vegemite and my mother is English and so I tasted Marmite, I think probably in the 80s and said never let that pass my tongue again. Okay, that's an opening salvo there.

Speaker 6 Try not to make a joke there.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 6 Ellis and John,

Speaker 6 just check if either of you actually like Marmite itself before we go on to.

Speaker 6 I love Marmite. I just want to say, Adrian, it's such an honor to take part in this career, Lowe.
Yeah. Okay, you're look, you're more than welcome.
We want to make your dreams come

Speaker 6 true.

Speaker 6 But I'm very excited because I, drum roll, please, am Team Vegemite 100%.

Speaker 6 Really?

Speaker 6 Now, I spent some time in Australia and actually brought my own Marmite with me. I'm just lame.
And just assumed that I wouldn't like Vegemite and that it wouldn't be as good.

Speaker 6 And so I've never tasted it. So I can go into bath on behalf of Marmite, though I've never actually tasted the opposition, whereas for years, John has been a big Vegemite guy.

Speaker 6 Okay,

Speaker 6 listen,

Speaker 6 we'll get to this shortly. We've had your opening salvos and let's get into it properly.
Because it is time. It is time for the Bush-Tucker Childs.

Speaker 1 The Bush Tucker Childs.

Speaker 6 Okay, let's

Speaker 6 go.

Speaker 6 You just played the jingle again. Yes, I did.
I just liked it. I liked it so much.
Adrian, you've lost it.

Speaker 6 I might well have done.

Speaker 6 I passionately love both Marmite and Vegmite. I personally couldn't split them.
Paul, who says he's from Wales, Ellis, says Vegmite is just Marmite for kids.

Speaker 6 Their parents will develop correctly once they're grown-ups.

Speaker 6 Would you...

Speaker 6 Is that something

Speaker 6 you'd chime in with, Alice? Well, I'm going to have to say that because I've never

Speaker 6 maybe this has patriotism gone wrong. I don't know.
I've never tasted the opposition. I love Marmite.
I eat it more stays. I'm always stunned that for such a strong taste, kids love it.

Speaker 6 Well, for leaving taste to one side, because obviously that's completely subjective.

Speaker 6 The advantages Vegemite has are mainly practical. It's much easier and convenient to get out of the jar.
Yes. Why is that then? Because the consistency.
Well, it's firmer.

Speaker 6 so it's more like butter that actually spreads from the fridge right

Speaker 6 also it doesn't do that thing where it gets no matter what you do with marmite you get that awful thin string oh yeah yeah which then gathers around the screw cap and makes it sticky and gets on your fingers vegemite doesn't do that

Speaker 6 more like peanut butter i suppose then and what a disgusting description thank you john the thin string but it's easier to then get the last bits out because marmite you get a sort of five mil at the bottom yeah the five mil wastage well apparently that's why the edges are flat because you meant to lay the jar on its side to access that okay but it just it's i what are we in space we don't need that kind of exactly i use i i minimize thin strings with a teaspoon And then I scrape it off the teaspoon with a teaspoon.

Speaker 6 That's inefficient. You're losing the thing you've paid good money for.
I mean, the idea was that you all came in and left common sense behind and actually just, no matter what.

Speaker 6 Well you've got the wrong people for the job then. Back your own spread, but you're not.
I mean you're speaking it's very adult of you John to to just come in in favor of Vegemite.

Speaker 6 I mean might I ask you to come in favor of Marmite and since we've been so civilized about it felicity. One thing.
Hang on let's see Felicity. I just want to see what's

Speaker 6 truth. Felicity can you say anything generous about Marmite? Not really.

Speaker 6 What I can tell you about, if we're going to talk about innovation of packaging, Vegemite you can get in a squeezable tube and a squeezable jar.

Speaker 6 I've got something like a tomato puree type toothpaste tube thing once. And that is so much better a way of just

Speaker 6 of

Speaker 6 getting it getting it out.

Speaker 6 Like a soft ketchup jar, you can get a plastic soft squeezable Vegemite as well.

Speaker 6 There is no length we will not go to to make sure and ensure that you can have Vegemite in any temperature at any cost. How can any new check-in luggage? Fine.

Speaker 6 Marmite comes in a squeezable jar as well. Yeah,

Speaker 6 but you don't squeeze out.

Speaker 6 It's not sort of fluid enough.

Speaker 6 I think also because Vegemites are slightly smoother flavor, you've got a bigger spectrum of amounts. So if you go slightly over

Speaker 6 diversity, fine.

Speaker 6 Whereas with Marmite, if you put too much Marmite on a crumpet, it's it's game over.

Speaker 6 Yeah, sure. I mean, do people...
That's a good point, John. Thank you.

Speaker 6 Felicity, do people, you know, here, you must know, people say, you know, somebody who people either love or hate is known as a Marmite person. You know, it's, you know,

Speaker 6 it's so, you know, culturally deep with us. So people famously either love or hate Marmite.
Do people say the same in Australia about Vegemite? Are people said to either love or hate Vegemite?

Speaker 6 No, if you hate Vegemite, you get your passport taken away from you. That is very, very clear as part of our constitution.

Speaker 6 You love Vegemite, and that's it. If someone's a Vegemite person, you love that person.

Speaker 6 I mean, do you accept it's Marmite is certainly a stronger, bolder taste? And then you can understand why people, you know, our text at Paul said it's just a weak form of Marmite.

Speaker 6 Would you accept that? Look, I'm not here to yuck anyone's yum. I'm just here to say that we have a better product.
Okay.

Speaker 6 And by the way, there's a tip that's come in,

Speaker 6 Ellis and John, for Marmite dregs. It's

Speaker 6 low power in the microwave for 10 seconds and you can sort of pour it out onto whatever. I don't think I've ever tried microwaving Marmite.
So we would change consistency.

Speaker 6 Oh, okay. I suppose you could also put hot water in there and shake it up and make a disgusting little drink.

Speaker 6 Well, some people drink Marmite in that way.

Speaker 6 Like Bovril.

Speaker 6 That's what I was going to say, isn't it? It's like, is Bovril just a form of Marmite?

Speaker 6 But I like that. I think

Speaker 6 extract. That's

Speaker 6 that's

Speaker 6 drink.

Speaker 6 Adrian,

Speaker 6 you've hit upon the fatal blow in your point there about

Speaker 6 things over here being Marmite, because I think what Veggie might have done,

Speaker 6 they've created a product that half of the people don't hate

Speaker 6 because it's nicer.

Speaker 6 Interesting.

Speaker 6 I tell you one thing, Adrian. If you want me to go into bat for the Australians, Tim Tams beat penguins every day.
Okay, well, they are incredible. Well,

Speaker 6 we can certainly get into that.

Speaker 6 Julian in Salisbury makes a good point. He says, I hate Marmite, so will I hate Vegemite? That's interesting.
It depends why you hate Marmite. If you hate the premise of Marmite,

Speaker 6 you will hate Vegemite. If you just find Marmite a little bit too,

Speaker 1 how can I say, gauche,

Speaker 6 then perhaps Vegemite is a slightly more palatable companion.

Speaker 6 If you've had a traumatic experience with Marmite, you also might not like Vegemite. It might be

Speaker 6 if you don't like sticky fingers, you might like Vegemite. Okay, look, I'm going to call this, I can call this a score drawer.
I'm not quite sure who was betting for whom, but we've

Speaker 6 been batting for whom. But anyway, we got there in the end, I think.
I've learned plenty of stuff there. Thank you very much indeed.

Speaker 2 Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes.
I've got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

Speaker 4 And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on.

Speaker 5 It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head.

Speaker 2 Tough enough for you. Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your

Speaker 1 There you go. Great chat with Adrian there.
I'm Felicity. Felicity.
I'm Felicity from the chapter flick. There is nothing worse than a presenter as a producer.
Wow. Okay.
No.

Speaker 1 Job's on the line already, Dave. No.
Do you want me to call the PM? No, this is a producer's you.

Speaker 1 I can have you sent to the Tower of London, Dave. Yeah.
Or

Speaker 1 you could be the new DG.

Speaker 1 Ah. You could call Kira and say, I've got the man for the job.
I've already sent sent him my CV.

Speaker 1 As a producer, to hear a presenter say, I don't want to do this feature, I'm just doing it because my producer told me to do it, is the worst thing I can ever hear.

Speaker 1 And you two have been guilty of it in the past as well. You've thrown me under the bus on more than one occasion with.

Speaker 1 Only when you made a bad bus

Speaker 1 that couldn't be driven, you paid the price.

Speaker 1 Because Adrian has well and truly thrown his production team under the bus with that feature. Yeah, and then now the bus has been driven off a cliff.
Other bus is obliterated.

Speaker 1 I quite like the bus because it got me to fly the flag for Vegemites. That was great.
It was a staple of my diet. Reflective of the cricket.
Yes. Playful on a Friday afternoon.
Of course. Great pun.

Speaker 1 Great pun. Production value is really high that we might not have been able to play in what we've just played because of copyright issues.
Bringing in a plurality of voices. Yes.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Comedians galore. What's not to love? Yeah.
Flick is cricket obsessed as well. Oh, is she? She loves it.
Yeah, so she's a very good comedian to have on to discuss cricket.

Speaker 1 Right, let's have one of my favourite mad dads of recent times.

Speaker 1 My dad, when he brought his first non-stick frying pan, kept the instructions and stuck them on the wall next to it. Actual real wooden clogs

Speaker 1 and set about eating what must have been north of 24 egg canopies.

Speaker 1 He then proceeded

Speaker 1 40 litres or so

Speaker 1 onto the timber and strike a match. Dance a mad.
Dance a mad! Dance a mad!

Speaker 1 You can send your mad dads to ellisandjohn at bbc.co.uk and this first one comes from Natalie.

Speaker 1 Dear Ellis, JJR and PD, my long-suffering mum had booked a family holiday for us all to a Spanish island for some winter sun and as an opportunity for our parents to get to know me and my sister's boyfriend better.

Speaker 1 My parents had been to said Spanish island on holiday the previous year, so we were very excited to go back, my dad especially so.

Speaker 1 To save costs, our dad had suggested we travel with only cabin baggage. Nothing to worry about, he assured us all, we can buy anything we need there at half the price.

Speaker 1 Fast forward to the trip and upon leaving the airport dad set off in the hire car. About 20 minutes into the drive he turned off the highway and slowed down the car at a roundabout.

Speaker 1 He then got out of the car and without saying a word disappeared into some undergrowth. The baffled boyfriends asked what was going on, but we had no response.
We were all very confused.

Speaker 1 He returned ten minutes later, proudly clutching a carrier bag, the contents of which contained half a bottle of two Euro shampoo, some 80 cent toothpaste, and an almost empty four euro suntan lotion.

Speaker 1 No. Dad got back into the car and explained, as if it were perfectly normal, that he had stored them at the end of their trip to the island some 18 months earlier.
That is superb.

Speaker 1 The same trip that they almost

Speaker 1 Hiding his nuts and acorns. The same trip which they almost missed their return flight from due to arriving late at the airport.

Speaker 1 We can now only assume that this was because he was looking for a suitable hiding place for his toiletries.

Speaker 1 I'll never forget the look on my then-boyfriend's face as my dad proudly declared victory over budget airlines whilst brushing his teeth with some questionably hygienic toothpaste.

Speaker 1 Thankfully, this madness can't have been too much of a red flag as both my sister and I are now happily married to our boyfriends and often laugh about the many bonkers things he managed to do with us as children.

Speaker 1 Dad, of course, is oblivious to it all. Keep up the good work, Natalie.
That's incredible. I'm gonna be doing that.

Speaker 1 It must have been so satisfying. That, yeah, to have gone to try and find it and find it.
And it's there. We went to Liechtenstein.

Speaker 1 Me and my mates, the Walesaway boys, because Walesaway, Liechtenstein. Yeah.
And we were on a budget flight.

Speaker 1 And, you know carry-on allowance is very very small and it's amazing how small some of the bags were that the like we were there for sort of three days yeah it was

Speaker 1 incredible

Speaker 1 it was incredible how little stuff some of my friends were just like a bit of underwear and a wash bag yeah and that toothbrush yeah that's just floating around a small bag next to your pants and socks but that's that's

Speaker 1 it's great it's

Speaker 1 genius also do it tonight you're not really in i wouldn't be would i be be embarrassed? It's just a lovely icebreaker for the boyfriends. It's a bit of fun.

Speaker 1 I remember a girl coming to our house when I was about 20 or 21.

Speaker 1 And before she arrived, my dad's a character. And I remember I was brushing my teeth or something.
I remember hearing. Is this a lady? A lady you brought back to your house.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, to meet my parents. I remember hearing my mum say to my dad, be normal.

Speaker 1 Be

Speaker 1 normal and don't mess it up. Yeah.
And if you can't be normal, be quiet.

Speaker 1 What did the lady... We don't hear much about Ellis's dating life.
No, it's good, this.

Speaker 1 What did the lady say? I'd met her at the Asteth Vod.

Speaker 1 Was she a druid? No, no, no, no. She wasn't a poet.
Wasn't a druid. I think she had a...

Speaker 1 No, she wasn't a poet. But I'd met her at the Asteth Vod and

Speaker 1 she came to my house. It was a very short-lived relationship.
But my dad was so desperate to be normal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 She was from North Wales. He just kept discussing the A55 with her.

Speaker 1 And then the A5.

Speaker 1 Safe grounds. Safe grounds.
So he thought, I'll just go Rhodes. But he looked like, it must have looked like he worked for the RAC.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 whatever she said, he would then bring it back to the A55 because he was like, he would just... My mother's words ringing around his head, be normal.
And if you can't be normal, be quiet.

Speaker 1 Well, I still have to have those pep talks with my dad. So

Speaker 1 you need dad to be normal yeah around hannah no no he's for 20 years he's all right with hannah but when he

Speaker 1 so he went to came to my club night now if he meets people who he absolutely adores he just becomes very very enthusiastic and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that he's quite puppyish your father he is lovely he's absolutely got a puppy dog energy yeah he just wants to he just wants to chat he's very sociable yeah yeah he is i love it yeah he's a he's a he's he's a fantastic man but he just kind of goes maybe sometimes 10 too much if there's someone who he's chatting to who he loves, so Rachel Burden, was going to be at the club night.

Speaker 1 And I did just have to pull him to one side and say, you're going to see Rachel Burden at the club night. Discuss the E55 with her.
Just remember where, and I'm not saying don't go and say hello.

Speaker 1 Of course, I'm going to let you say hello. You're a 70-year-old man.
Do what you want. I can't tell him what to do, but I did just say,

Speaker 1 just remember to check in on your energy levels. Well, the advantage with E.G.
Rachel Burden, E.G. Adrian Child.
Childs would be another. E.G.
Rick Edwards.

Speaker 1 They're used to talking about such a broad range of topics in a very inclusive, very engaging way. It's like having a chat with warm Google.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're unlikely to sort of pick a thread that they're not going to have some kind of insight on. Yes.

Speaker 1 Burden must be incredible at a wedding.

Speaker 1 Can you imagine sitting on a table with Burden? She could be,

Speaker 1 she could make a very decent living as an official wedding guest for if, for example, you have someone pull out.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 you've got a spare place, and you need someone, you need someone to get the conversation going to make people feel at ease.

Speaker 1 Yeah, also, dad loves Five Live, so already it's just like she'd be talking about Spritter because he believes this country's worth a damn thing.

Speaker 1 He likes Five Live and Marmite, and I think it went down very well.

Speaker 1 And she's told me since that she absolutely loved chatting to him, so it was all fine, but just every now and then a little word in his ear to remind him. Yeah, so keep your dad some out coming.

Speaker 1 Oh, oh, any festive mad dads, fire them them in as we move towards

Speaker 1 as we move towards December. We would love some festive mad dads because everyone goes a little bit more mad.
And I think that Christmas is a real mad dad time to shine. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 It involves all of the key mad dad

Speaker 1 banana skins. Cooking,

Speaker 1 present buying, planning, planning, communal events, moving cars, new tables and chairs. Guests.
It's logistic mad, isn't it? It's logistic mad, Dave. That's what I'm always saying.

Speaker 1 So send in your mad Santas, your crazy Christmases.

Speaker 1 Or Festive Shane Wells. Or Festive Shane Wells.
Or regular Shane Wells.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 who knows? Maybe we'll have some special stuff coming out over the Christmas period. Well, we can mention that now, I think.
We've got Ellison John's Christmas Cracker, which we do every year now.

Speaker 1 It's a highlight in everyone's calendar, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 It's been released on the 23rd of December. A lovely little festive treat across those days when you just need a bit of a distraction.
And it'll be played out on Five Live on Christmas Day, won't it?

Speaker 1 It's played out on Five Live on the Show. It's part of the Christmas schedules.
It's a part of the shed.

Speaker 1 Is the play being played out twice on Christmas Day? No. Is it?

Speaker 1 No, I don't think it is this year. Just the ones at 11am.
Okay. We're part of the Christmas schedule.

Speaker 1 We like Wallace and Cromet.

Speaker 1 We also have, which again we can talk about now, Ellis and John's alternative Christmas playlist. Yes.

Speaker 1 We're doing that. Is getting a double playout on Five Live.
On Christmas Day. Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.
That's brilliant. It's festive.
We are. We are the schedules.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 We're the king's speech.

Speaker 1 So we get to pick, I think, five or six songs each. We're Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom at 3 p.m.
Christmas Day. Yeah, you are.
But more culturally sensitive.

Speaker 1 I would like to think.

Speaker 1 Ellis and John.

Speaker 1 I know it's been probably 30 years since I've seen it, so I can't remember.

Speaker 1 It's of a time. Yes, absolutely.
It came out about in 1981, didn't it?

Speaker 1 The alternative Christmas playlist will be available on BBC Sounds from the start of December. Exclusively.
Exclusively on BBC Sounds. Online, on digital, on the red button.

Speaker 1 Wherever you get your podcasts, if you get them on BBC Sounds exclusively. No, you've confused the message there.
What message?

Speaker 1 It's just on BBC Sounds. Okay.
I don't think we're on the red button. Why not? Why not? It's a good question.
It's a good question. So, yeah.
And then it gets to play out across Christmas on fire.

Speaker 1 So, Ellis and John vibes. I've been 204, Raiders of the Lost Arc was 81.
Sorry. That's my favourite.
Ellis and John vibes in your Christmas area. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And we'll be back with you on Tuesday and Saturday on BBC Sounds. Yes.

Speaker 1 Online. On digital.

Speaker 1 Wherever you get your partner. Part of the Christmas sheds.
On the red button. Available for catch-up and via the BBC website and app.
And 4OD. Yes.
Oh, yeah, yeah. If they do, they might merge.

Speaker 1 And TVX.

Speaker 1 They won't. And Netflix.

Speaker 1 Not them. And Disney Plus.
They had a bloody re-subscribe to Netflix last night because they had a film on about nuclear war and I wanted to watch. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And your ex-girlfriend from three ex-girlfriends ago has changed her password. No, I've got my own password now, actually.
Big boy. Big boy now.
Big girl Netflix. Big boy, actually.

Speaker 1 And I got the subscription without ads.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to cancel it tonight. Save myself another month's worth.
Why? So I got to watch the film and then I cancel it.

Speaker 1 Right. But you can, you've got a month out of it, then, haven't you? Yeah.
Yeah. You saw them coming, didn't you? Yeah.
Did you get paid less than me for this show, John?

Speaker 1 Because I know what I'm on.

Speaker 1 Good. Good.
I'm going to eat my cake now. See you tomorrow for the Bureau.

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