#490 - Tom Rosenthal, Thrown by Doves and Adjust or Leave

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Speaker 2 Thank you for downloading Ellis and John and I have a message for you. My name is Ellis James and I thought I was coping.

Speaker 2 Yesterday morning I got out of bed after another sleepless night, devastated to be in South London as I needed another fix. I am a Cumberland Connecting addict and it is ruining my life.

Speaker 2 I'd been in Cumberland Connecting heaven last Saturday as I'd been to watch Swansea City play Charlton where everyone either knew Eggie, Jamie Flegg, or had met Lee Trundle at a charity event.

Speaker 2 As I left the grounds, somebody asked me what John is like in real life and whether his total personality is a bit he does on the radio.

Speaker 2 Page and school, I shouted, ignoring the man and frightening my son.

Speaker 2 Brugend, he said. Oh, are you trying to...
Yes, of course I am. Have you ever met Lee Trundle at a charity event?

Speaker 2 No, I'm not sure I have, actually. Do you know Tavi runs the Brigenjax press or Martin Pipps from Pencoin, who's allergic to oranges?

Speaker 2 I do know Tovey and Stan, actually. He muttered, get good, now get out of my sight.

Speaker 2 It started off as a bit of fun, but it's ruining my work.

Speaker 2 On Thursday, I travelled to Funness Theatre Gnetti to film my scenes as the magic mirror for the Camar Lyric Theatre's production of Snow White.

Speaker 2 I loved every second, even though I did refuse to take part in the marketing department's ideas for a promotional TikTok video because I was too shy.

Speaker 2 They asked me to take part in a lip-sync video, and I said I can't do that with a clear conscience. As soon as the shot was set up, I asked Johnny the Tech where he was from.
He replied, Birch Grove.

Speaker 2 And because I am an addict, I asked him if he knew my friend Andy Nackle, the BBC Wales journalist Chris Wathan, who I live next door to at University.

Speaker 2 Johnny said, uh, not sure, and I snapped, even though I was in full costume as a magic mirror. You want to laugh, mate? I asked.
Birch Grove, are you actually legit?

Speaker 2 Sorry, Ellis, said the director.

Speaker 2 We've got to do the bit where you tell the evil queen that Snow White is the fairest in all the land.

Speaker 2 I was hyperventilating by this point and needed to check my heart rate, so I asked to put my smartwatch back on that I'd been made to take off because we'd all agreed that you probably couldn't buy Apple products in an enchanted kingdom.

Speaker 2 202bm. I needed a glass of water and to chill.
I got through the scenes. I discussed Snow White's unmatched beauty.
We had a break and I ate a jacket potato. I caught the train home.

Speaker 2 Then, as I went to bed, I got a text from my friend Ichdid, pointing out that last week's failed camera connection would have been taught design technology by my auntie, pointing out that was an open goal and questioning my technique, and that was another sleepless night.

Speaker 2 Why didn't I say you will know Auntie Mania because she taught you TT? Your auntie? Yes. She taught at that school.

Speaker 2 You didn't say that because it wasn't in your head. It wasn't in your head because you weren't prepared.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Very simple. I know, I know.
I'd forgotten that.

Speaker 2 Failed to prepare. Forgotten my auntie.
Failed there. Okay.
And she would have taught Alice. What's the Cub Scout motto?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I promised to do my best, my whole best.
Pledge my allegiance to God and to the Queen. Is it? Was when I was at Scouts.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's be prepared. Be prepared.
Do you want to see a picture of me as the magic mirror? I really, really do.

Speaker 2 You see?

Speaker 2 It's coquettish in a weird way. It's very cute.
It's very sweet.

Speaker 2 A lot of what I'm seeing says

Speaker 2 1974 top of the pops. Yes.
None of what I'm seeing says mirror. They haven't haven't put the special effects on yet because I'll be on a big screen.
Okay. So there'll be fire at the bottom.

Speaker 2 You've had a message from Simon Weeks. Oh, yeah.
Weeksy. Good old Weeksy.
Oh,

Speaker 2 and you could see there: the magic mirror with his

Speaker 2 new balance straightness.

Speaker 2 Well, they do kind of fit in with the colours. I know, I know.
They're the right colours for the microphone.

Speaker 2 Explain the outfits.

Speaker 2 It's

Speaker 2 sort of white trousers

Speaker 2 and a

Speaker 2 sort of like military dress but for a ball like a tunic

Speaker 2 tunic is what sort of Christ would have worn no it's a bit no

Speaker 2 that's not a tunic it's like a military tunic it's like um

Speaker 2 like a military jacket with the collars high all in white with a silver frontage yeah what did a little ruffled and a rough slash cravat yeah yeah

Speaker 2 pardon libertines used to wear tunics didn't they in red and black i've never heard them called tunics before. Maybe.

Speaker 2 That's a military tunic. Huh.
Well, there you go. Yeah.
So, yeah, I was. I am the voice of the voice of the spirit of the magic mirror, mirror, mirror on the wall.
Can you do it alive?

Speaker 2 No, he signed an NDA. I have not signed an NDA.
Everyone knows

Speaker 2 going with my family. My mum and my sisters and their kids and my kids are all going to watch me in Panto at the Lyric Theatre in Kamalden every night.

Speaker 2 But you're going to have to do it in disguise because you told them you weren't available to be there on the night. Well,

Speaker 2 it's a whole run. Yeah.
I'm not going to be in Kamalden between the 11th and 29th of December. No.
So my scenes are on a screen and I went down to Toneta yesterday to film that.

Speaker 2 Do you reckon people will heckle the mirror?

Speaker 2 I hope not.

Speaker 2 But in a sort of fun way, like shouting out Agent School or Have You Had a Ploughman's. Oh, no, that would be very, very funny.
I hope that does happen.

Speaker 2 Because it's very like it's behind you. Yes.
Blue hiss. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It was a very odd day because I'm a- McCumry reflection.

Speaker 2 Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 He delivers time after time. He does.
We should call you the postman.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I am called that on my golf trip. Are you? Are you? Because of my extraordinary record.
Because of what we will be talking about with Tom. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I imagine. My mind is capable of winning golf games that my body isn't.
Tom Rosenthal is on the podcast a little bit later on. A little bit later on.

Speaker 2 Chat with Tom where we may well talk about my golf mentality. Oh, well, yeah, it's on a question that we might ask him.
Delivers. The original postman, of course, Ian Poulter.

Speaker 2 Was that his nickname? Yes. I am.
Because of his Ryder Cup record.

Speaker 2 So I'm like Ian Poulter, if he was much worse at golf, because he's able to win, and I think he would probably admit this, where

Speaker 2 in team events where his mindset is the biggest weapon. Yes.
Even if his golfing natural ability, though stratospheric,

Speaker 2 is sort of maybe top 50, where his mentality is number one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's John Robbins all over. It was quite a funny day because I'd never been in Punter before, and

Speaker 2 the director, who was lovely, Lou, was like,

Speaker 2 I think you can go bigger, Ellis.

Speaker 2 I think you can go big enough. Because I think my first take, it was sort of, it would have been understated if it had been in the American office.

Speaker 2 And then you think, right, you've actually got to, this is a punch. Oh, you've got to be huge.
You've got to be huge. You've got to be blessed.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And then I bumped into my dear friend Andrew on the train and we talked about Henry Kissinger for two hours. So it was just really, really nice.

Speaker 2 Can you do a line?

Speaker 2 Decent leverage, though, because they've asked him to be there for the whole run. Ellis has said, ah, I'm afraid I can't be available for the whole run.

Speaker 2 If it wasn't as big a star as Ellis, they'd have gone and found someone else who could be available for the whole run.

Speaker 2 But they've worked around that to make sure this star of the show is there every night on screen

Speaker 2 and made a considerable saving.

Speaker 2 And they don't need to provide accommodation or fitness. Oh, goodness me, yeah.
So, in a sense, we should all just be selling our image to AI active companies.

Speaker 2 I talk to the evil queen as the magic mirror, like I would talk to John.

Speaker 2 John, you are fair of face and indeed the most beautiful creature in the realm. There we go.
Mirror, mirror on the wall. I am the spirit of the magic mirror of Pentry Van and John has value.

Speaker 2 That's good. Well,

Speaker 2 I want to see a recording of it, if possible. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it actually.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 it's just, I haven't told the kids, so they don't know. So we're going to go to the pantomime.
Oh, lovely. We're going to go to the pantomime just to watch because we're in Kamar then.

Speaker 2 And then ding-dong, I'll appear on screen. I bet Betty rolls her eyes and writes a searing invective about it in the Daily Scramble.
Oh, 100%. but my son will like it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but yeah, Daily Scramble for the while. Are they still getting written? Oh, absolutely.
Well, she's now published. The last one was in the Alternative Wheels football, Welsh Football magazine.

Speaker 2 Okay. So, yeah, I mean, I come out of that one quite badly as well.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 From the Cymru reflection to the Cymru connection, can Ellis James make a connection to a Welsh caller in under 60 seconds? Let's find out.

Speaker 2 It's another

Speaker 2 Do you know Daffy Devons? No.

Speaker 2 Come on, mate. You must do no.
We've never met

Speaker 2 at all.

Speaker 2 Now then, I'm going to read out some

Speaker 2 feedback, Ellis, some suggestions, and then we're going to...

Speaker 2 And then we're going to get on to... You know that Rager 4 programme, feedback? I would hate to be mentioned on it.
I hate feedback, Dave. Yeah? Well,

Speaker 2 yeah, you're going to hate this. But then we're going to talk about what's happened in the studio.
Okay.

Speaker 2 This is from Ben. Hi, guys.
Quick tip for Ellis. Age and school, if you went to university, where did you go?

Speaker 2 Can easily be shortened to H School and University. When I hear Ellis start the sentence, if you went, a part of me dies.

Speaker 2 Well, because not everyone did, and I don't want it to, I don't want it to make anyone feel kind of kind of like a woman. I think it's not the space for kindness.

Speaker 2 But I want to be kind, because I'm, I'm, sometimes you ask someone, oh, did you go to university? And they're embarrassed that they didn't, and they shouldn't be.

Speaker 2 And I would never want to make a caller feel awkward. No, but you have to make them feel awkward in order to win.
Okay, well, this is. Also, I don't think people do feel awkward.

Speaker 2 I've 100% met people who regret it not going and all that. Yeah, but you're not getting into a deep conversation about someone's life choices.
You're asking if they went to university.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 All right. Well, just let the record stay.

Speaker 2 I would like there to be a bit of kindness chucked in. You can intonate the question mark.
Uni? Age in school university?

Speaker 2 Anyway, it just goes on to say, I die inside knowing that he's about to waste nearly 8% of his 60 seconds with unnecessary words. You 45 mates sort it out.
Those aren't my words.

Speaker 2 They're the words of Ben.

Speaker 2 Roland, is it?

Speaker 2 However, Ben on Roland's continued agenda. Ben, there have been historic scenes in the studio.
Dave, how long have we been doing this feature? Oh, seven years.

Speaker 2 Seven years.

Speaker 2 Seven years we've been doing this feature. Just over a year.
Yeah, just over a year.

Speaker 2 And without being cajoled, without having his coat done up for him, without having his nose blown for him, Ellis has done some prep. Ellis

Speaker 2 walk us through what we're seeing here. You've drawn a map of Wales.
You've drawn a map of Wales, a very accurate one, may I say? Copied off a tea towel. Yes.

Speaker 2 And I've put some towns in there and some people and some things. Now, it's not yet complete.
For instance, North Wales at the moment is only Porrelli and Bangor.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that doesn't represent North Wales. Ellis knows that.
Yeah. Anglesey, the Tidderowin zone.
North East Wales, the Tommy Couse zone.

Speaker 2 Pembrokeshire, I haven't even put in Halford West, it's just the Eggy zone. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But then I've put various things for Newport, Swansea, bridge end cardiff uh the tricky area in midwills where i've got to be honest i've got six or seven options anyone else on earth would have done that would have done this would have done that second week but we're delighted that it's been done i think a year after the start i'm instinctive you are

Speaker 2 but it's very good to see and i what also i like ellis is that you can fill it as you go exactly with things that come to mind yeah so i put newtown uh the guy who looks like me who works at Theatre Havren.

Speaker 2 I need to find out his name. But that will come.
That will come.

Speaker 2 Ellis has now failed to connect in his last three attempts. His connection rate has slipped further to 46.03%.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 the Sunbed, the Sun Lounger connections have made me feel validated. You can't put emotions on a graph.

Speaker 2 And that's your big problem. That's my big problem.
Can he turn things around today? We have a caller on the line from Wales. Hello.

Speaker 3 Hi.

Speaker 2 Hi there. The next voice you hear will be of cartographer-in-chief, Mr.
Ellis James. He has 60 seconds to find a connection with you.
Your time starts now. Pigeon School?

Speaker 3 26. I saw Glan Cloyd.

Speaker 2 Oh, Tiny Vank.

Speaker 2 Glan Cloyd, what in where's that?

Speaker 3 St. Assaf.

Speaker 2 of Wales.

Speaker 2 Okay, do you know Tommy Couse?

Speaker 3 Not really. Not really.

Speaker 2 Okay, where do you live now?

Speaker 3 Still local. Go to Union Bangor.

Speaker 2 You go to Union Bangor? Okay, what are you studying?

Speaker 3 Medicine.

Speaker 2 Medicine? Okay, that's fine. What are your hobbies? Do you like sport?

Speaker 3 Rugby.

Speaker 2 Rugby? Okay, do you play rugby?

Speaker 3 Used to.

Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 2 do you know my friend Beth from Cardiff's undercomic who's from around there who plays rugby? Beth Jones? No. Okay, that's fine.
Plays rugby set user. Tommy Coast.

Speaker 2 Do you know, do you do any acting, acting, anything other than sports?

Speaker 3 Um, I used to sing.

Speaker 2 Okay, what sort of singing? Chord singing?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay, uh, where in Bangkok?

Speaker 3 Uh, Saint Joseph and Fedbod.

Speaker 2 Okay, oh, do you know Tarabethan?

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 2 A chill wind blows through the studio.

Speaker 2 But I have to say,

Speaker 2 still improvement. Yeah.
It wasn't just a barrage of names.

Speaker 2 There were sidebars.

Speaker 2 He didn't refer to his map. No, he had his eyes closed.

Speaker 2 Because I can't read and speak at the same time. No.

Speaker 2 Well, because she's from St. Acef, which is right in the middle of the Tommy Couse zone.
But went to Unigos Union Bangor. Which is, well,

Speaker 2 okay, do you know... I should have opened my eyes.

Speaker 2 If one of these names is a connection, because it was on your blooming map that you weren't looking at because your eyes were closed do you know kiri pritcher mclain

Speaker 2 no do you know tidder win

Speaker 2 no that's fine okay said asaf

Speaker 2 so i mean ian rush is from there

Speaker 2 you're not gonna know ian rush in your 26

Speaker 2 he's considerably older than i am yes he is he's in his 60s you know michael win

Speaker 2 no no i don't know michael either but he was from around there there's a labor ward in saint asif isn't there

Speaker 2 there is yeah that's the thing you see see. A lot of famous footballers get born in St Osif, even if they're not from the

Speaker 2 Michael Owen, Welsh. Well, not really.
He was born in Chester to English parents, but he grew up in Harden, which is in Wales.

Speaker 2 So, under current rules, he would actually be eligible to play for Wales, but he wasn't then. But he did grow up in Wales.
He played for the same schools team as Gary Speed and Ian Rush, I think.

Speaker 2 Okay, do you know of any links?

Speaker 3 The only thing I could think of when I was trying to use it was maybe some of the Welsh of the West End. I was in school with most of them.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, that cool.

Speaker 2 Sorry, I'm squishing my lips together because I'm annoyed and I was making bad audio. I'm gonna open them up.

Speaker 3 Stefan,

Speaker 3 I was in, yeah, school Stefan. Kellen Cartwright, I was in school with the shows by Kellen Choid now.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah. Ah, I know who they are, but I've

Speaker 2 I don't know them. You're 26, and that's fine.
What year were you born? 1999?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 What about parents and older relatives?

Speaker 3 My dad used to be a photographer for the Western Male.

Speaker 2 Huh. What's his name?

Speaker 3 Yolla Williams.

Speaker 2 Like the Birdman. Like the Bird Man, not the Birdman.
Not the Bird Man, but like the Bird Man. God, the Birdman, man.

Speaker 2 Who's the Bird? The Bird Male.

Speaker 2 I do know the Birdman. The Yola Williams? I'm not going to say it again, the Birdman.
Yeah, we'll explain that. He's a TV presenter about birds.
But he does big stuff.

Speaker 2 He does like Spring Watch and things like that. He's like a bird expert called Yola Williams.
I used to know a photographer for the West Mail, but he's from Schlechlin. He was called Glynn, I think.

Speaker 2 So I'm talking about a different bloke.

Speaker 3 The only other connection I can think, maybe,

Speaker 3 is my uncle Gerach, my dad's friend. He started off as a cameraman for HTV and now works for ITV.

Speaker 2 Uncle Gerard.

Speaker 2 He sounds like a poet.

Speaker 3 He does.

Speaker 2 I'd have to see his face.

Speaker 2 I love the fact that the name Geracht isn't enough information. Oh, I know multiple Gerachts.
Do you? But they're almost all poets.

Speaker 2 It's that kind of thing that happens when you're caught Geracht, you just become a poet.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 You like rugby? And you used to play.

Speaker 2 Do you know any rugby players?

Speaker 3 Yeah, in my youth,

Speaker 3 George North was still shopping around the circuit.

Speaker 2 I know his teammates, I know people like Ken Owens,

Speaker 2 but I've never met George, although I did once walk past him on St Mary Street and Cardiff, but that doesn't count and never will count, Dave. No.

Speaker 2 Okay, that's fine. What's your name, by the way?

Speaker 3 Laura.

Speaker 2 Nisa Gratti, Laura.

Speaker 3 Nisa Logotti.

Speaker 2 Did you ever go to Theatre Croydon in Mold?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Did you ever go to Silkie's Comedy Nights?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Did you ever meet Silky? I did. Oh!

Speaker 2 Did you? Did you know that?

Speaker 2 I mean, I used to do loads of Silky's gigs. Both John and I did, we worked a lot with Silky.
So that we got there in the end. Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, it doesn't. Meeting doesn't count.
Hold on. We need to find out how often Laura has met Silky.
How well do you know Silkie, Laura?

Speaker 3 I mean, enough that I would stop and say hello if I saw.

Speaker 2 Would you?

Speaker 2 Here we go. Okay.
So

Speaker 2 how did you meet Silky? Was it sort of audience interaction or talking about the night?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so it's my gran on my mum's side was a big kind of patron of theatre Cloyd when I was a kid, so she sticked to loads of stuff.

Speaker 3 And then I was in the learner scheme at Silver and Cloyd, so there was a big push to get me more involved in kind of Welsh culture. So I was going kind of fairly regularly.

Speaker 3 And then my gran managed to get me to meet people and stuff

Speaker 3 after the fact, which was quite quite funny.

Speaker 2 That's a connection. I think that's a connection.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Did you see much?

Speaker 2 Is there anyone you know in the Welsh language culture scene that Ellis might know?

Speaker 3 I'd say the only ones that really struck me were kind of Welsh of the West End. So yeah, I was in school with most of them.

Speaker 3 But otherwise, I think there's probably a little bit too much of an age gap.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm 19 years older than you, which is fine.

Speaker 2 But the Welsh language is timeless. It absolutely is timeless.

Speaker 3 Well, it is, because when I was learning, one of the ways that I was learning Welsh was watching Ellis's stand-up on a sub-rex.

Speaker 2 Oh, shook it.

Speaker 2 Oh, God, I'm going to cry. That's lovely.
It's the only thing that's going to be.

Speaker 3 It's quite a nice circle for me.

Speaker 2 Oh, Laura.

Speaker 2 He's off. Oh, Laura.

Speaker 2 I'm incredibly touched by that. That's really nice.

Speaker 2 Laura, thank you for making an old man very happy. Middle-aged man.

Speaker 2 Thank you for making a middle-aged man more than middling happy. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show, and we got there in in the end through Silky

Speaker 2 in the end. Thank you.

Speaker 2 No, John has been banging Silky's drum in the North East Wales

Speaker 2 sort of section for a long time. Yeah, we got there in the end.
I'm glad. Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 We've got a very special guest coming up, haven't we, Dave? We have indeed. So we need to prepare our microphones.
We need to clean our glasses. We need to pop our trousers on

Speaker 2 because we've got guests coming. We've got to be on our best behavior.

Speaker 1 At the BBC, we go further so you see clearer. Through frontline reporting, global stories and local insights, we bring you closer to the world's news as it happens.

Speaker 1 And it starts with a subscription to BBC.com, giving you unlimited articles and videos, ad-free podcasts, the BBC News Channel streaming live 24-7, plus hundreds of acclaimed documentaries.

Speaker 1 Subscribe to trusted independent journalism and storytelling from the BBC. Find out more at bbc.com/slash join.

Speaker 2 Well, it's a delight to say that we are joined in the studio by a very talented man, a friend, and perhaps the UK's most confusing prospect. It's Tom Rosenthal.
Tom.

Speaker 2 Thank you, I guess, for that introduction. Your hair's looking great.
Cheers, man.

Speaker 2 That's obviously a reference to the fact that last time I was in this studio, I was very nervous to be talking to you about how I cope. And

Speaker 2 you were insisting that my hair looked good, and I refused to believe you. But then I watched the videos back and I actually thought that it did.
But today it looks especially good.

Speaker 2 Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 I noticed how you sort of left the abuse of my cardigan for off the record. And then as soon as we start, you start being very nice.

Speaker 2 I have a reputation to uphold, Tom, as one of the kindest broadcasters in the UK. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but off-pod. Off-pods.
Such a disability.

Speaker 2 yeah i said i said leave it leave it off camera sorry man no no it's wonderful to be here uh slightly intimidating i think to be honest why i find you extremely witty oh to be just you're you're all so quick at this point you feel like you've been invited to dinner with oscar wild

Speaker 2 a little bit yeah i've not got my quips yeah you downloaded a few off the internet sure yeah and they'll stick out like a sore thumb

Speaker 2 but oscar's spotted something in you he likes yes as he's trying to bring you into society Yes.

Speaker 2 But not particularly successfully.

Speaker 2 Well, I've got nothing to declare, but my clever. Very, very good.

Speaker 2 Very good.

Speaker 2 Tom, the Tom of the mind, the Tom of the body. What's happening now?

Speaker 2 Me and Tom have a slightly different relationship to anybody.

Speaker 2 We have a very spiritual relationship. Yes.
We talk about spiritual matters. Which I point-blank refuse to do.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Ellis, and this is not a criticism, has no spiritual hinterland yes zero zero and that's that's what attracts him to many many patreon subscribers

Speaker 2 they don't go to him for confusion or enlightenment no no no no no absolutely not darkening straight i'm straightforward whereas tom we discuss discuss the great matters of the self yeah we're very deep yeah um so how is tom Where is Tom?

Speaker 2 Tom, well,

Speaker 2 you know, I've just come to the end of my three-week one at the Soho Theatre.

Speaker 2 And that's why it's a perfect time to have you on this. Yeah, yes, yes,

Speaker 2 on top of the world.

Speaker 2 It's quite trying on the soul, I would say, doing sort of relentless stand-up.

Speaker 2 But broadly, very, very pleased to be on this planet

Speaker 2 in this present moment. You have just announced an extra London date on the 14th of May, 2026 at the Clapham Grand.
Thanks, Ellis. Thank you.
Yes.

Speaker 2 There's more tickets to sell. Pick up.
And I'm very much enjoying doing my shows. But it does lead to some mental decline, to be fair.

Speaker 2 You know, all that stuff I talked to you before about how I've got over my OCD and stuff, that's back.

Speaker 2 I'm tapping stuff left, right, and side to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, you know,

Speaker 2 it's a constant battle, really. I don't know what you guys find this, is this quite a stressful thing to do or quite low stress? What, this? Yes, right now.

Speaker 2 I would say very low stress.

Speaker 2 I need to get some more work like this, I think, because I'm sort of getting myself up in front of crowds of people.

Speaker 2 Whilst in the moment, it can be quite fulfilling. Just before I just,

Speaker 2 go a bit MAC, really. So, yeah, you've really got me like

Speaker 2 people buy tickets or should they? No, what I'm saying is, I condense all the madness which is before stage, and then on stage, I look like I'm having a great time.

Speaker 2 And I have been having a great time. I'm very thankful for everyone to come.
I have sold quite a lot of tickets, which is why they put on this another big show. And yes, I'm very proud of the show.

Speaker 2 I think it's very good. But if you're paying that ticket money, do know that it is causing some mental anguish.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 if that's what you want from a stand-up show, then you are going to get it. I think there are very they do exist.
I can name a few, but there are very few stand-ups who, who,

Speaker 2 in the run-up to a high-profile tour or something, or a big show, don't feel a little bit of correct.

Speaker 2 You know, also, I always think it shows you care. Correct.

Speaker 2 But I mean, I think I care a bit too much. I've got very much into a very, very strict routine before my solo theatre.
I know exactly what time I ordered my decaf coconut mocha from Starbucks.

Speaker 2 Also, the one thing I did want to bring up being on this podcast, and you know, I apologise to you in advance, Alyssa, but every single day at Paddington Station, I walk past the same advert for a podcast, which seems to be a podcast about your wife having an affair.

Speaker 2 Have you seen this?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Are you okay with this poster?

Speaker 2 I just, every time I see it, I think, that's why have they made it such a

Speaker 2 why are they looking at each other so lovingly like that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, she's gone away again on Monday night to Exmouth to record some more episodes.

Speaker 2 She's having an affair with Dan Skinner, plays Angelos. It's in plain sight.
Let me see. It's in plain sight.
That's such a shame.

Speaker 2 Also, I mean, that is is why those faces. You've never looked at Izzy like that.

Speaker 2 So loving, such an attractive man. We're in love.
He's a very attractive look. It's a great podcast.

Speaker 2 Also, I would say, I mean, I have some past with Dan

Speaker 2 Skinner. Very nice man, very charming,

Speaker 2 obviously.

Speaker 2 More handsome than me. More certainly more charming than me.

Speaker 2 I'm not saying that. He's obviously very handsome, objectively.
I've only worked with him once on Friday night dinner. Okay.
In an episode called The Piano, where he plays a part who

Speaker 2 genuinely

Speaker 2 has an affair with my mum's best friend. Yes.
And the husband in the episode sort of has a mental breakdown, really. So my only experience of him is as a sort of Lothario.

Speaker 2 He gets cast in that role quite a lot. I've only seen it happen in slow motion

Speaker 2 because I haven't got the proof I need yet, but I have got the proof that I need to become very suspicious. They often start the podcast out of breath, don't they?

Speaker 2 So is it running and trains? They're always talking about the mattress quality in the hotel.

Speaker 2 Always running. Always running for trains.
Is there a local pharmacy at the destination?

Speaker 2 So yes. Well, you're in my thoughts constantly.

Speaker 2 And I'll be listening to that podcast along with you. I'll give you some notes.
Yeah, I think we should listen to it together, actually.

Speaker 2 Quite good to watch along. Yep.

Speaker 2 For the Patreons. Do you have those guys?

Speaker 2 Alas, no. No, sorry, sorry.
BBC. That's a.
Oh, yeah. We don't have patrons.
We have patrons. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 License payers. Which John prefers.
Yes. And every time I pass anyone on the street, I shake their hand and say thank you for your support.
It means a lot.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Unless they're wearing a cardigan you don't like, in which case.
In which case, I say think on.

Speaker 2 But it is very fashionable. Thank you.
No, that's the criticism, isn't it? No, no, no, it is. Dave's got a similar one that's not as furry.
I have, actually, but I would happily go that furry

Speaker 2 in future. So it's all to play for.
Try it on if you want me. Thank you.
I would love to see John with it. I would love to see.
Dave's look good, didn't it? Dan Skinner.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 He really fills out a cardigan like his shoulders. Or is he being rubbed in it by Dan Skinner?

Speaker 2 Next to a roaring fire.

Speaker 2 Somewhere on the GWR network. Yeah.
What a network. So many places to go.
The most romantic. So many romantic moments to have.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 Tom, we're obviously, you know, we're talking about your tour,

Speaker 2 but we want to ask you questions about the wider experience of Tom Rose and Tom. Heaven, heaven.
Heaven. The astral realm.
And the thin area in between,

Speaker 2 which you talk about very movingly, the thin space.

Speaker 2 So it's time for Ask Us Anything. Fantastic.
And we've got a lovely little jingle here, Tom, which we do hope you'll enjoy.

Speaker 2 Send your questions in, answers you will surely get.

Speaker 2 What's your shoe size? What's the name of your very first pet?

Speaker 2 Nine, Sammy.

Speaker 2 My feet are nine, size nine, and my first cat was called Sammy.

Speaker 2 I thought you were talking about a musician. It was like, God, that's like nine Sammy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I thought he was talking about a musician. I saw him DJing Oslo.

Speaker 2 Yeah, nine Sammy's good. Yeah, yeah.
Tom, we got questions for you, babe. Gotta hit me.
I've got one I'd like to ask. This is from Rachel.
I'd love to know what it's like to play golf with John.

Speaker 2 Who has the best short game between you two? How does John react when he shanks one off the tee? Tell me all.

Speaker 2 I'd be happy if this was the only question that we answered, because we need details. Because

Speaker 2 I don't play golf, so it is a part of John's hinterland that is a mystery to me. But we only ever hear about John's golfing from John.
Exactly. So this is from the horse's sport.

Speaker 2 This is huge, actually.

Speaker 2 Well, one of the reasons golf was a beautiful sport.

Speaker 2 One of the reasons golf is a beautiful sport is

Speaker 2 the way you play golf is very much how you are as a person.

Speaker 2 And I really like playing golf with John because he's quite fastidious about the rules.

Speaker 2 He takes it very seriously, and we sort of counterbalance each other in that regard. In that, I like to just sort of look at the flag and sort of estimate how far it is in my head.

Speaker 2 And then I'll hit a shot that'll go like 20 yards too far.

Speaker 2 And John will quite honestly go, Well, you know, what I have in my bag is a sort of mathematical Excel spreadsheet regarding how far each club will go if I put a certain amount of effort into each swing.

Speaker 2 And yeah, he has, so you sort of get a little clipboard out and show you like a long range of figures. And he says, what you should have, Tom, is that.

Speaker 2 And I go, well, I don't want to have that because that's. It sounds like a blimmin' good laugh story.

Speaker 2 And, well, I mean, regarding what he does when he chants one for tea, he just goes, oh, John.

Speaker 2 Oh, oh, John. He says that all the time.
Yeah. And actually, one time we used to be playing golf and I hit a shot and I went, oh, Tom, right?

Speaker 2 I was really happy with the shot because I say that like, oh, Tom, I'm so proud of myself. So when I explain my own name, I'm like, that was great.

Speaker 2 But when he says, explains his, and that he's, that was bad. Interesting.
Because there are moments if John is a little bit frustrated with himself,

Speaker 2 he will use the worst swear word in the world. He will go straight to the Champions League of Swears.
Does that ever creep out? And sometimes he'll really shout it.

Speaker 2 Does that ever creep out? And if so, are you ever near, like, you know, because sometimes in golf, there's people just waiting to play

Speaker 2 when you're at the belfry, yeah. Well, if there's like a someone waiting to come up behind you, and are there any expletives?

Speaker 2 Honestly, my memory of John is not that he's an expletive-ridden golfer, there's a lot of people who are lot much worse in that category.

Speaker 2 Golf is a lot about self-talk, and I think that John gets his frustration out by just saying his own name, basically.

Speaker 2 But I don't know what that means about your perception of yourself.

Speaker 2 Pardon? Different intonations. Oh, yeah, I mean, if it's a bad one, it's like, oh, John!

Speaker 2 Oh, John, so it's a lot of bad, but I really enjoy the fact because some people, when they play golf, they are just like complete chaos. They don't care about the rules.

Speaker 2 And then ultimately, it is a complete waste of time. Like, if you're just hitting a ball around and going, oh, I'll drop that down.
Oh, I'll do that. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 Whereas he kind of keeps you on the straight and narrow. He's looking at me like I'm not on the straight and narrow at all.
And I'm sure in his head, I am absolute like chaos. Yes.

Speaker 2 But that's why I like because we go on this golf trip and he's very much on the rules and you can't do that and you can't drop there. And it makes it mean more, you know.
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So I very much appreciate playing with it.

Speaker 2 And also, as he says, like, we'll have a hole and we play, oh, you've got to hit a seven iron to 170 yards. And the next hole is like, do you believe in hell?

Speaker 2 You know, so it's like a nice balance of conversations

Speaker 2 because you're in it.

Speaker 2 So, this is hell right now. So, you're Maradona, he's Jim's Milner.

Speaker 2 That's very cut into both of us.

Speaker 2 I mean, what do I do? Like, Maradona, I don't know, hang out with the mafia and take class A's. I don't know.

Speaker 2 I don't play golf as well as as Maradona played football, but I'm, yeah. But you could.

Speaker 2 You know, my good shots, my good shots are pretty good, but the point of golf is how good your bad shots are. And my bad shots are.

Speaker 2 I mean, I could talk about golf and mentality for 10,000 years.

Speaker 2 It could be the first 10 millennium podcast. Yeah, it could.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 the frustrating thing about playing with Tom is also the joyous thing about playing with Tom.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 I believe in hell. Tom is more naturally gifted at golf than me.
Yes. However, he's never beaten me

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 he has extraordinary skill.

Speaker 2 So, in very many ways, a maradona of both of them. Okay.
A Ronnie O'Sullivan. Okay.
But a Ronnie O'Sullivan that picks up the wrong cue from the wrong sports and then goes, I don't care.

Speaker 2 I don't mind whether it's a corner. It doesn't matter if it's a hockey stick.
Both of them heading me 81. Why have you got a rounder's bat, Ian? Exactly.
Yeah. Okay.
This is fun, isn't it? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Why are you playing with a tennis rocket, Ian? But I have learnt a lot through Tom and also through How Do You Cope.

Speaker 2 I used to think ADHD was something that just required a better explanation from me to solve.

Speaker 2 Like if I could just explain.

Speaker 2 Why being on time and leaving early was important, why it matters. Finally, someone would go, oh, do you know what?

Speaker 2 I had ADHD for 20 years until John Robbins explained that you just leave 10 minutes earlier and it cured it. Whereas what I know now is that Tom and I have different brains.

Speaker 2 Like they are different things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And expecting Tom to realize he's left his golf bag at the T

Speaker 2 is like expecting him to sort of be able to perform complex maths. Him expecting me to just sort of...
Lighten up. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 So no one is, I'm not saying anyone's better or worse or, you know, healthier or more unhealthy than the other person, but there are two completely different machines

Speaker 2 operating these two golfers.

Speaker 2 And for me, I would give anything for Tom's talent. I'd give anything for the body that that machine was attached to.

Speaker 2 You've got a nice body. But I wouldn't sacrifice.
the way my brain approaches a problem. Yeah, we could create the perfect golfer.
We have had this conversation before.

Speaker 2 The two of us combined. So Tom plays off about 18.
I play off about 13.

Speaker 2 Those,

Speaker 2 Tom should easily be us single figures. He's hit shots I'm not capable of, but he will hit them once every eight times.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Whereas I will hit shots I am capable of pretty much all the time.
Yeah. Because of his spreadsheet, man.
Because of my spreadsheet. And I do.
But this is an interesting point. So.

Speaker 2 In my golf card. I suppose it would be the caddy who did that.
Yes. So in my golf card.

Speaker 2 I have, most golf players, like professional golfers, would have this, is I have a little sheet, which is sellotaped into the little pocket of my cart,

Speaker 2 which tells me how far I think four different clubs go with three different shot types. Now, that took me about half an hour to put that together on the driving range.

Speaker 2 That will save me five shots around, just having that there

Speaker 2 for the rest of my life. But even him saying that, I got bored half of his life.
No, no, no. You know what I mean? I was like...
He's in his head.

Speaker 2 In Tom's head, he's just just picking up a driver and trying to hit it as hard as he can. Yeah,

Speaker 2 but with that

Speaker 2 with that methodology, you also need to know at what point you are on the fairway and how

Speaker 2 far away you are from the trees.

Speaker 2 So I've got an app, or

Speaker 2 you can use a shot scope. Okay.

Speaker 2 Whereas this guy, instinct. But the problem is, there was once a perfect example.
We were on a hole, downhill hole, and

Speaker 2 he hit this beautiful shot to the green. And it went about 50 yards past out of bounds into the adjacent field.

Speaker 2 And I said, Tom, that was amazing. But what did you hit there?

Speaker 2 He said, six iron. I said, how far does your six iron go? He said, about 190 yards, which is exactly how far it went.
But the hole was 130 yards away. Right.

Speaker 2 Felt good, though. It felt good.
Yeah, exactly. And this is the thing, but he will walk away from that thinking, that's a success.
Yeah. I'm going, oh, Tom.
Oh, Tom! Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, Tom. Whereas had he hit that shot with a pitching wedge,

Speaker 2 had he had my brain for the 30 seconds before hitting the shot, he would have got it on the green and got his birdie or his par. But instead, he gets a six or a seven.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because he's hit the right shot too far. Interesting.
The golfer's a fantastic sport, man. It really sort of shows your fundamental flaws as a character.
But it also shows, but it also shows.

Speaker 2 That's why you all play,

Speaker 2 you. I think you'd be a very similar golfer to Tom.
I think I'd rather be in the dark about my flaws than have them brute to meet you.

Speaker 2 But it also shows your qualities. So Tom is superb company.
Tom is very enthusiastic. Tom is very playful.
Tom is very instinctive. Tom is very trusting.
Tom is very...

Speaker 2 athletic. He's got swing speed I would never get if I practiced for a billion years.
I'm more with Tom, so I'm well aware of his athleticism.

Speaker 2 Do you remember the video from the Footballers? I mean, is it not really sort of podcast-worthy? Be quiet for the rest of your life. Oh, this is interesting.
What's this?

Speaker 2 Oh, Tom's got a we played a football game. We played a football game.
Do you want to tell a story, Alice?

Speaker 2 We played. Are we talking about the Taskmaster?

Speaker 2 We played the Taskmaster game last year, and Tom's got bad knees. And I used to play football before Tom hurt his knee

Speaker 2 with Tom, and he was a brilliant midfielder, outfield player, extremely classy first touch. But he's hurt his knees.
He wanted to be involved in the game, and so he decided to go in goal.

Speaker 2 I assumed he'd be rubbish because he's not a goalkeeper. What's irritating about Tom is that he's extremely athletic and sporty, and so he was a very, very, very good goalkeeper.

Speaker 2 And it was the final penalty in the penalty shootout.

Speaker 2 And John didn't play in this game. And

Speaker 2 I, for some reason, volunteered to take the fifth penalty, but

Speaker 2 it wasn't a normal, straightforward, orthodox penalty it was the one where you get to run from oh yeah halfway line and you've got five seconds right and because of the five second thing i really panicked five that's not long is it yeah and also i'd i'd scored a one-on-one in five a site like three nights previously i thought i'll just do that

Speaker 2 but but that guy was like an old

Speaker 2 yeah he was an old bloke with asthma who didn't really want to be in goal tom's quite competitive and there were 4 000 people there the dummy i sold him tom didn't fall for and i looked like a complete pillar.

Speaker 2 We need to work somewhere. He sort of just dribbled it into my hands, and then obviously lost.
That was the losing penalty of the losing penalty. So, this is the sort of celebrations at the end.

Speaker 2 That's my team. That's Sam Campbell dresses at the chess ham because he was in Chesham, jumping up and down.
And you can see Ellis in the front row, just on this. There he is.

Speaker 2 There he is. Ellis on the pitch.
That's going on, the Cara. That's it.
I mean, it's head in hands for anyone listening. Ellis just collapsed onto the ground.

Speaker 2 There's lots of videos of Ellis with his head in his hands in the world. Yeah, I'm quite a head in hands guy, actually.
And I'm sorry to do that to you. No, it's fine.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I would be more decisive next time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you told me in the change rooms afterwards, if I'd done me the other way, that was your bad knee. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you would have collapsed.

Speaker 2 I couldn't remember which knee was bad in the moment. So just so that we've all had a funny image of us shared,

Speaker 2 I do have a picture of Tom just before going to bed on a golf holiday in Portugal day. Oh, I've seen this.
Great. I felt kind of a stack, Dave.
You want to talk us through that? Oh, okay. Right.

Speaker 2 Tony's. I love the farmer's ton.
Look,

Speaker 2 look, me and Erling Harland, we're both into our biohacking. And when you're on an elite sports trip, you need to be getting every advantage you can.

Speaker 2 So in this photo, I've got my yellow blue light blocking, blue light blocking glasses on, so I get better sleep quality. I've also got my nose taped and my mouth taped.

Speaker 2 The nose obviously opens up the nostrils. And the mouth tape encourages you to breathe through your nostrils.

Speaker 2 And that's going to give me a better sleep quality to allow me to hit more shots 50 yards past the green the next day on the golf course. Um,

Speaker 2 I'm I keep getting in. Um, can I just watch media adverts about mouth taping? Do you believe in it? Uh, I do believe in it, uh, it does definitely improve sleep quality.

Speaker 2 I've actually found something that I do more now. I just don't think I can breathe through my nose, which is a big problem.
Yeah, but it will get better if you start to force yourself to it.

Speaker 2 I've recently started taping my cheekbones, which actually does the same thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 but well, basically, there's this thing called looks maxing on the internet where like boys try and do like like they do like thumb pulling, which like widens your jaw.

Speaker 2 And then if you take your cheekbones, basically it gives you more pronounced cheekbones. But the reason is it makes you like more healthy and you can breathe better, basically.

Speaker 2 Life's all about breathing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I love that because this is the BBC, I do actually get to say that terms like more healthy

Speaker 2 faced entirely on TikTok videos. They tend to require a higher standard of internet.
This is a conversation me and John have had about a hundred different things.

Speaker 2 Basically, I believe everything I see on the internet. John believes nothing he's on the internet.
That is true. He's not exaggerating.
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 Let's not get into that.

Speaker 2 But yeah, essentially, so you take your cheekbones and it just basically makes it changes your tongue posture and then you can breathe better. And it's all about breathing quality and getting more.

Speaker 2 You look good. You've always looked good.
I believe that. Maybe it's because of the tape that I put on my face.
Probably for 15 years. Thank you for being so complimentary for this entire podcast.

Speaker 2 I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 Well, the cheekbones.

Speaker 2 I'm not seeing a marked difference in your cheekbones. I only started yesterday.

Speaker 2 This is the thing as well with my brain as I do things for about five days and then I just quit. So I never see any actual results.
It's just something to daughter John about, really.

Speaker 2 Just slightly annoy him. I might suck my tip in to stop myself from snoring because he sleeps an awful on the attic.
And she loves it. She loves it.

Speaker 2 We're Dan.

Speaker 2 See, you say in this photo, Tom's got a farmer's tan. It's not, it's extreme sunburn.
It's not great. It's not extreme sunburn.
It's not great.

Speaker 2 For a man who thinks 5G gives you cancer, but the sun doesn't. No, well, and doesn't believe in suntan cream.

Speaker 2 Okay, no, I mean, it's not I don't believe in it, I just believe that your skin can adapt to it over time.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you should be careful.

Speaker 2 David's got another heart attack. Do you believe in them?

Speaker 2 If it lasts long enough, the heart gets used to it. And you could just be permanently in cardiac arrest.
It's actually better for your sleep quality to be bad.

Speaker 2 Because your heart's beating slower and that's a good thing.

Speaker 2 Wow. So what a fantastic answer to the question.
What's it like to play golf with John? I mean,

Speaker 2 I don't mind that being the only question, unless there are more that you want to ask.

Speaker 2 You might have to edit out a few of those bits for the guidelines, to be fair, but I've had it. No,

Speaker 2 we'll just put a broad

Speaker 2 disclaimer at the end.

Speaker 2 Do not believe Tom Rawls at all. Apart from the dates, and he is actually genuinely performing on the 14th of May 2026 at the Cup in Gurund.
Well, this is one I would like to know. Quick one.
Go on.

Speaker 2 What is your skincare regime to look younger and more relevant than any 37 year old i know and that's from davey

Speaker 2 so much compliment so many compliments on this podcast uh i i i don't have one man i just sleep a lot i i i think it's just genetic my father has also inherited obviously no sun cream

Speaker 2 that's poison so that's aging you all i i don't know how to answer this question toner no i don't do anything man serum no i don't do anything moisturizer oh no the one thing i do do is beef tallow now then i've seen that on the internet you could have given me a thousand guesses as to what was about to come out of your mouth i've seen that

Speaker 2 you see it on the internet no it's it's just beef tallow you just rub it on your face that's all i know i don't really but do you are they used to make the lamps in victoria i hate to ask this do you smell of beef close yeah big size

Speaker 2 it's not the worst smell though is it people eat it

Speaker 2 and i want to do a podcast it's just it's just an interrogation of all of the peculiarities this is why i can't do what you do and just sit and just chat about my life because as soon as i chat about my life i'm thinking i'm blowing safe.

Speaker 2 What is your... So your partner.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think one observation I would make about you is if I was a girl on a date with you,

Speaker 2 I would be charmed. I would be interested.

Speaker 2 I would be

Speaker 2 attracted to you.

Speaker 2 Energize. Then I would get back to your house.

Speaker 2 And between going to bed and waking up, I would... I was thinking, you're cooking beef in your bathroom.

Speaker 2 I would witness 10 of the oddest things I'd ever seen in my life. And I think, hang on, how was the guy from the bar?

Speaker 2 He's just so charming. He's now rubbing beef fat into his face and taping his mouth shut.

Speaker 2 It thins down the field, sure.

Speaker 2 How do you charmingly go into your sort of

Speaker 2 that world with a partner? What did your partner make of you the first time they had to view your sort of domestic habits? Oh, she talks about it all the time, man.

Speaker 2 On like our second date, I asked her to just get into a bath naked with me and just eye-gaze. And she said it was the weirdest thing any man has ever asked her to do.
Do you know what eye-gazing is?

Speaker 2 I mean, it's just sort of staring at each other's eyes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's on that program, um, Love, Sex, and Goop, right? Yeah, yeah, where you drops that in his face as well.

Speaker 2 You have to sort of unbroken eye contact for like two minutes, and it's very, very intimate.

Speaker 2 Yeah, look, I can't really answer this question as to why anyone would find me attractive. No, no, no, that's not my question, but what's the reaction been to some of your quirks?

Speaker 2 I mean, they just adjust or leave, don't they?

Speaker 2 I can't really say anything else for that.

Speaker 2 You know, free will and that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Are those traits now sort of very affectionate? She's very affectionate towards those parts of you, or has she gone, you know, this thing has to stop? She tolerates a lot of it.

Speaker 2 I mean, recently I tried to make my own toothpaste out of coconut oil and turmeric.

Speaker 2 and I stained the bathroom and then

Speaker 2 I had to spend about an hour trying to get the turmeric stained out of her and she was like, almost impossible. She sort of bans me from touching a lot of the culinary items.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, you know, it's a constant battle. But she also, you know, she loves my authenticity and my quirkiness.

Speaker 2 No, only myself. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But yeah, you know, again, it's a question for her.

Speaker 2 I love her very much and I'm very grateful that she tolerates all of my eccentricities.

Speaker 2 Surprise, surprise, Tommy. She

Speaker 2 leaving me. Okay, good.

Speaker 2 Another one gone. That's all right.

Speaker 2 She said she liked the smell of.

Speaker 2 But I don't think, I'm not saying you're someone to be tolerated.

Speaker 2 Smells like a carboury. It's just in your head, you have a sort of expectation of what someone might be like.

Speaker 2 They might take ages over their skincare at the end of the day, or they might, you know, have to have a cup of tea as soon as they wake up, or all these sorts of things.

Speaker 2 But I would, I just guess some people wouldn't have been able to to call some of your habits yeah man i try to keep them under wraps uh but as i'm aging i'm you know trying to become more authentic and uh just be honest with my quests and i guess i am the answer to the question is you know what what happens if a man does everything they read on the internet you know

Speaker 2 there's some good there's some bad you know do you think there's something in apparently i look young i mean but you do i don't know what that is it's the beef it's the conspiracy theories who know

Speaker 2 but you are a very

Speaker 2 i think there's something in a documentary where you do everything you see.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man. Because you're not an idiot.
Thank you. But like, you're not.

Speaker 2 You're thick. But you're genuinely inquisitive.

Speaker 2 I'm very open-minded. I think I'm sort of pathologically open-minded.

Speaker 2 I would love to watch/slash listen to that. Tom Rosenthal does it all.

Speaker 2 Or Tom Rosenthal and John, his sort of slightly more straight-laced, officious friend. He does it all in front of John, who has opinions.
Yes. That's another snappy time.
I'd listen. I'd listen.

Speaker 2 Or watch, Dave. TV's door's not shut, even though it's hard to open.
Yeah. And they've seemingly changed the locks.
But I think if I can get enough purchase. Let's put a bookcase up against that door.

Speaker 2 Apparently, the mail hasn't been collected from this house for about 10 years. That's weird.

Speaker 2 I can't see any furniture when I look inside the window.

Speaker 2 Anyway, Tom, it's been a delight to have you on the show. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 It's been so many compliments and some, you know, sort of aggressive critique of my character. I know

Speaker 2 it's a lot to deal with in half an hour. And we're going on holiday time, aren't we? Yeah.
Dolly good. Yeah.
Somewhere we can't say. Going on a golfing trip in the coming months.

Speaker 2 The yin and yang of golf to get back together again. Yeah, yin and yang and golf.
What we need is to be on the same team. I would love that.
I would love that. Like we'd be a pairing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Anyone fancy a game of golf?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 go and check out Tom's show. Anything you say you are, that's what I am.
Well, you know, that's close enough, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Whatever people say I am, that's what I am. Yeah, that's right.
Which is a version of what I see. Yeah.
And it's always good to

Speaker 2 offer a version of a show.

Speaker 2 Well, Google will auto-correct it these days. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's what you mean. Tom Rosenthal's show.
Whatever people say I am, that's what I am. I've just done a Releaser Theatre and they misprinted my tickets.

Speaker 2 They initially printed it as whatever people say I am, that is what I'm not, which is just the arctic monkeys.

Speaker 2 Can you change that? So they changed it to whatever people say I am. That is what I'm.

Speaker 2 Oh, no.

Speaker 2 That's

Speaker 2 much worse than John's.

Speaker 2 That is what I'm.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's so funny.

Speaker 2 And that was just on the tickets. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for the first two days.
Surely it just is whatever people say, dot, dot, dot.

Speaker 2 I mean, hey, talk to the Soho Theatre, man, you know, whatever people say.

Speaker 2 That's what I am. But yes, thank you very much for having me.
It's been a real delight. Oh, a pleasure.
And all the very best. All the very best to you, dear.
And I'll see you soon.

Speaker 2 Shall we finish on a made-up game? Yes, please. Great.
We've got a new jingle.

Speaker 2 Hello, my stinky pickles. Here's my submission.
I don't know that one. No, but pickles are stinky.

Speaker 2 Here's my submission for a made-up games jingle all the way from Atlanta, Georgia, United States, America. America.

Speaker 2 Thanks for all the laughs, Andrew. Here we go.

Speaker 2 It's time to settle scores again. So come on, y'all, and tuck on in the podcast that keeps me on my toes.

Speaker 2 A skittish feller hits his fate, then takes a mile to chop a cake, but he's distracted, looking at his phone.

Speaker 2 Bloody other feathers shakes us in. You've lost the plot, my friend said.
But connect them folks and put them fit.

Speaker 2 And the sheriff in this crazy mess that puts them all up to the test is flexing in this new man city kit.

Speaker 2 And they do get out for all Z in games as wild as they can be with tennis scores that I don't understand.

Speaker 2 And the man up games who used to play will put him to the test today. So look alive, the points are in your hand.

Speaker 2 And the man up games who used to play, we'll put them to the test today in Ellison John's Wonderland.

Speaker 2 That's the most American thing that's ever been on the podcast. Yeah.
That's

Speaker 2 fantastic.

Speaker 2 Do you like that? Yes. I mean, he may as well have sent us a corn dog in the post.
Because he's very American. Some grits.

Speaker 2 So what's the game? Right, well, before we get to the game, John, I think the important matter of the scores on the doors needs to be addressed.

Speaker 2 Ellis won last week's game, which was called Music Station Gestimation, featuring Greg James in a tense tie break. So Ellis has the advantage in the third game.

Speaker 2 Very good. Can he nick it? It's now or never, Elle.
John leading two love in the second set. So it would be good for Ellis to nick

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 it would just mean that you could claw a game back at this stage. John is one set to love up.
This week's game comes from George in Aberuswith. Okay.
Good afternoon, my little lads.

Speaker 2 I bring forth to the council a made-up game that's perfect for killing time on long car journeys called Blind Rate.

Speaker 2 The game will test just how much Ellis and John really know each other. The aim is to guess how your opponent rates their love or hate of things within a category, okay? So the rules are as follows.

Speaker 2 And now this game does take a bit of honesty from the two of you in terms of how you rate things. Okay, so that's the only kind of preference,

Speaker 2 the only kind of caveat that I will say. You've got to be honest here to make the game work.
For each round, there will be three categories in play, which I will name at the beginning of each round.

Speaker 2 I will secretly assign player one

Speaker 2 a rating score between one and ten. One being rubbish, ten being amazing.
Player one will then have to name one item for each category that they rate at that number.

Speaker 2 It's up to player two to then guess what the number is in the rating score. Nice.

Speaker 2 So because there's three categories, because there's three things that you'll rate, you'd like to think that it'll kind of calibrate to give you a decent guess. So there is honesty here.

Speaker 2 Don't try and throw your player by naming things that aren't at what that, what you would think

Speaker 2 that rating is. Of course.
So three points for being bang on from the guessing player. One point for being one away either side from the chosen number.
Like it. We then switch.

Speaker 2 The other player then plays with the same categories and you can't. I need an example, I think.
For example, Ellis.

Speaker 2 The category for the round is types of egg, landmarks in London, and football players. Dave secretly shows Ellis the number four.

Speaker 2 Ellis has to think about things within those three categories that he rates as

Speaker 2 four out of ten. So an egg I don't particularly like very much.

Speaker 2 Well, no, that wouldn't be a four. Five would be completely neutral.
Yeah. So it's a bit below neutral.
But the thing is, there's three things there.

Speaker 2 So there could be a type of egg, a London landmark, and a play and a football player. A London landmark that's four out of ten.

Speaker 2 Yeah, see, it's kind of about how you know each other, obviously, as well. So, for instance, poached eggs, London Dungeons, Rory DeLap

Speaker 2 would be a would be a run that hopefully gives a consistent number. Right, okay.

Speaker 2 John has to then use his massive brain and access his deep psychological understanding of Ellis to guess what number Ellis is referring to. If he says four, three points.

Speaker 2 If he says three or five, it's one point.

Speaker 2 Three rounds, most points at the end wins, okay? So, do do I need a pen and paper? Uh,

Speaker 2 yeah, I suppose it helps to scribble, okay, but it's also not the end of the world. But yeah, scribble if you can.

Speaker 2 Okay, so round one, and I'll give you the category now because you can both have a well, you don't know your numbers yet, so the categories are fine, but you can scribble down the categories if it helps.

Speaker 2 Round one: the categories are 90s bands,

Speaker 2 holiday destinations,

Speaker 2 hairstyles.

Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 2 90s bands, holiday destinations, hairstyles. I'm going to come to you first, Ellis, with your secret rating.

Speaker 2 I'll just close my eyes and I'll be honest. Okay.
He's going to close his eyes and be honest.

Speaker 2 You ready for your rating? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Don't say it out loud. That's fine.

Speaker 2 What number's that, Dave?

Speaker 2 She writes.

Speaker 2 Right, is the number gone? The number's gone. There's something wrong with the number.

Speaker 2 We have established Dave can't write under any circumstances.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm going to have to do these same things.

Speaker 2 You will, by the way,

Speaker 2 you just need to think of 90s bands. Well, yeah, but you need to know your...
You need to know. Yeah, but Dave, I don't.

Speaker 2 I was listening to Queen for the first six years of the 90s solely. There's enough 90s bands, John Shaw.
But what's a 90s band? What if they straddle Oasis a 90s band?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think you could class Oasis to be a 90s band. Yeah, absolutely.
All right. So Ellis has been offered up a secret rating.

Speaker 2 He's now thinking of a thing for a 90s band, a thing for holidays and for hairstyles. Or is he?

Speaker 2 I hope so. That he believes is that rating.

Speaker 2 All right, then, Ellis, you've had your rating. You need to now share with John what your answers are for each of those three categories.
What you got? Rodochilli Peppers,

Speaker 2 Blackpool,

Speaker 2 The Fade.

Speaker 2 God, that is interesting. I think that's good.

Speaker 2 Hmm.

Speaker 2 I mean, the top one gives you an area, doesn't it? Well,

Speaker 2 he's been very helpful. Yeah, but I would be surprised if Ellis felt the same way about Blackpool than he did about the red hot chili peppers.

Speaker 2 So we're after,

Speaker 2 what is the consistent rating there from my list? It depends if I go with my gut on red hot chili peppers or I go with my gut on Blackpool. Oh, this is it, and maybe that just lifts it a little bit.

Speaker 2 Maybe that lifts the rating a touch. I don't know.
I'm going to say three.

Speaker 2 John's going to say three.

Speaker 2 He's spot on.

Speaker 2 He is spot on. It's three points.

Speaker 2 I thought you'd have had more time for Blackpool.

Speaker 2 I've only been to Blackpool once. I went to watch Swans play Blackpool on Easter weekend.
It was extremely full on. I got chucked out of two nightclubs for not wearing shoes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and then we did the big roller coasters, the Pepsi Max big one on the Sunday, and I was hungover, and I thought I was going to be sick.

Speaker 2 I actually had a bad time.

Speaker 2 I watched the darts there in 2002, and I'm not sure it was the golden age of Blackpool or Darts. Right.
I saw Morrissey there once. Did you? Where is that? What's the ballroom? Ballroom.

Speaker 2 Blackpool Empress Ballroom. Okay.

Speaker 2 Long time ago. Yeah.

Speaker 2 John, here is your secret rating.

Speaker 2 Okay, scribble some answers down there, John. All good.

Speaker 2 When you're ready.

Speaker 2 All good. John's ready.
Okay.

Speaker 2 What have you got for your rating of those three categories? Same as Ellis, of course. Suede.

Speaker 2 Paris pigtails.

Speaker 2 Suede, Paris pigtails. All of those in John's mind are the same quality rating from 1 to 10.
Ellis.

Speaker 2 7. Can I show my workings? Yeah, go for it.
I reckon you probably quite like Suede.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 that Paris is a bit busy busy for you and a bit full-on.

Speaker 2 And I think

Speaker 2 that you think that Paris is a bit overrated as a sort of, you know, the city of love and all that.

Speaker 2 And Pigtails,

Speaker 2 I think you're fairly neutral on Pigtails, but you think they're quite sweet.

Speaker 2 So, seven is what I'm going for. Seven is bang on.
It's three points to Alice. This is a good game.
It is a good game. Tick ticks.

Speaker 2 Boom. And his reasoning was bang on the ball.
Bang on.

Speaker 2 I love it because it just shows what a lovely bond you two have and an understanding of each other. It is busy, Paulis.
I've never been. Alright.

Speaker 2 Round two.

Speaker 2 The categories are

Speaker 2 films.

Speaker 2 Kitchen utensils. Yep.

Speaker 2 Fit of jeans.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 We've tried to throw in at least a little bit of a

Speaker 2 little bit of a playful one in each round.

Speaker 2 Alright, I'm going to show. I'm going to start with you this time, John.
Okay. Okay, Alice, close your eyes and I'll just quickly show my whiteboard to John.
Yep. Okay.

Speaker 2 And off you go. Start to have a think.

Speaker 2 Hmm.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Are you good? Yep. Okay, John, please offer up.

Speaker 2 Your three items for films, kitchen utensils, fit of jeans. The World's End.
The World's End. The Simon Pegg film.
Yep.

Speaker 2 The Ladle. The Soup Ladle.
The Soup Ladle.

Speaker 2 And Y2K Fit.

Speaker 2 What was that?

Speaker 2 Dave, do you think I care or know anything about jeans fits? I've just googled a jeans fits, right? Y2K fits. You know, straight or boot cut or.
Okay.

Speaker 2 You think I've got enough for ten numbers out of ten? Okay, I think I've got it. Okay.

Speaker 2 I'll explain my reasoning as well. Okay, hit us with a number.
Six. Six.
And what was what did you say for the first thing? World's End. World's End.

Speaker 2 From memory, I think you like the start of this film, but do you not like the end? I think it's the best start to a film I've ever seen. But but it's not your favourite film ever? No, sir.
Okay.

Speaker 2 The ladle is...

Speaker 2 I mean, it's nice. It's useful for soup and stuff, I suppose.
But I'm not seeing it's in your top 10 kitchen utensils ever. Yeah.
And then I think that there must.

Speaker 2 I think you care so little about jeans fits. I think you just wanted one to fill the number

Speaker 2 to answer this question. And so you've gone fairly non-committal, which to me implies a six.

Speaker 2 It's a four, I'm afraid. It's a four, which means you're one off a single point, I'm afraid, L.

Speaker 2 It's a zero for you, Al. Okay.
The World's End, I think, is the best start to a film, the best premise for a film.

Speaker 2 And then the rest of it, I found found so disappointing that it drags it down to a four.

Speaker 2 The ladle, it's just always dripping on my sideboard, and I don't use it enough, but it takes up a lot of space in the drawer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And Y2K, I think, jeans girls used to wear, which are very tight around the thighs and bum, but are flared. And they used to soak water up.
Oh, yes. I remember that.
Got it.

Speaker 2 Okay, so zero points for L on John's selections. Ellis, let me scribble down my secret rating for you.
John, close your eyes.

Speaker 2 On the whiteboard, Ellis, here's what you're working with.

Speaker 2 Righto.

Speaker 2 Scarface for film. The V60 pour over for the kitchen utensil.
Fit of jeans, slightly baggy, straight leg turned up.

Speaker 2 Basically, Giles jeans. Interesting.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 I picture. I picture them.

Speaker 2 Says a lot about the man.

Speaker 2 Well, I know Scarface is one of his favourite films. I know he loves his pour over coffees yeah

Speaker 2 I wouldn't have known if those that cut of jeans was his favourite but it's if it's not a 10 he's diddled me so I'm gonna say it's a 10 it's an eight

Speaker 2 you've diddled me no I haven't

Speaker 2 no I haven't because Scarface is

Speaker 2 uh I really like it but it's a bit long

Speaker 2 The V60 Pour over, I really like it, but it does tickle a bit of faff. Do you use it every day?

Speaker 2 Not anymore oh except coffee machine i didn't know that yeah that is new information so i bought a coffee machine and i do like giles's jeans but you wouldn't wear them yourself but i i don't own a pair

Speaker 2 but i used to compliment him on his jeans every time i saw them yeah i'd only do that on a ten

Speaker 2 but i don't i think you're thinking of raging bull no isn't that your scarface no uh raging bull i love and i would have that would have got a nine actually okay okay. Hey, this is the game.

Speaker 2 That's the game. I was being honest.
You were.

Speaker 2 Round three, it's three all.

Speaker 2 I like this game, though. It is a good game.
Round three, the categories are animals.

Speaker 2 Colour.

Speaker 2 Forms of potato.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Animals, colour, forms of potato. Okay.

Speaker 2 Ellis, we'll come to you first. Let me scribble on the old whiteboard.

Speaker 2 John, close your eyes.

Speaker 2 Ellis.

Speaker 2 Annie's off.

Speaker 2 Ellis, how are you finding it?

Speaker 2 Have you locked in your answers? I think I've got one. I think I've got three.
Okay, so Ellis has been shown a rating. He now has animals, colour, and forms of potato to name that matches that rating.

Speaker 2 What have we got? Excel bullies.

Speaker 2 colour

Speaker 2 watery browny green

Speaker 2 potato

Speaker 2 triple chip triple cooked chips in a pub when there's no other option for chips

Speaker 2 but what end of the spectrum could he be at John

Speaker 2 okay

Speaker 2 are there other options for potato in the restaurant? Is my question. No.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Triple cooked chips. Skin on

Speaker 2 triple cooked chips or nothing or you go hungry, mate. And you're not allowed anything else.

Speaker 2 I'm not allowed anything else. Okay, cool.
Exile bullies. Come with everything, I'm glad.

Speaker 2 Exile bullies, watery, browny green. Yeah.
And triple cooked chips, John. I think it's one.

Speaker 2 Okay, Ellis, what's the answer? He's spot on. It's one.
John gets three points i think maybe that's the easiest one to get yeah yeah if you go too extreme maybe it's it becomes a little bit easier um

Speaker 2 all right john let me uh

Speaker 2 show you

Speaker 2 a secret rating here we go

Speaker 2 john scribbling

Speaker 2 john have you got your answers i do yes okay

Speaker 2 It's 3-6 to John at the moment. So Ellis needs to get this band on to stay in the game.
And it pains me to say at least you at least stand a chance of getting us out of this hellhole of

Speaker 2 a perpetual juice advantage game. Right, you're on a more.
Dove, tan, hash brown.

Speaker 2 Dove?

Speaker 2 Dove. Okay.

Speaker 2 You heard of a dove, Dave? Oh, sorry,

Speaker 2 I'm thinking we're on dogs. Sorry, it's not dogs.
I'm thinking of soap-ishly power branding for you. Dove, tan, tam, hash brown.
Cash brown.

Speaker 2 I'm going to have to say five.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 2 Neutral, surely, on all five of those things. No, John is a huge fan.

Speaker 2 Are you?

Speaker 2 What number have we got in? Nine. Oh, you do like hash browns, but you love doves.

Speaker 2 it. Well,

Speaker 2 surely you'd go. Well, I just thought cat is a ten.
Yeah. And I was trying to think, and as I thought, well, pheasants are too thick.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 If you told me that you liked pheasants and it was nine out of ten, I would have been staggered. I thought, squirrels are sweet, but they're in my roof sometimes.

Speaker 2 So I just thought, what's a really good animal?

Speaker 2 Sure, you choose a guide dog.

Speaker 2 No, this would be a three.

Speaker 2 No, guide dogs are humanity's greatest achievements. That's the only reason they're getting any points.
They're still dogs. Yeah, but they help the blinds.

Speaker 2 I salute them and will support them financially.

Speaker 2 And I would make space for them in my house or any public area I was in. You wouldn't have gone a high rating if John had said guide dog.

Speaker 2 I would have gone a high rating because I would have thought he's got to come up with a good animal that's not perfect and it's not perfect because it's a dog. No, but it's

Speaker 2 taking more than one away from it yeah no offense to the dog as a creature i've just got into tan recently

Speaker 2 because black would be my tan yeah yeah

Speaker 2 fine also like my

Speaker 2 somehow our items i like in my house are tan yeah and i've got tan jumpers and trousers you have you have you have i really got thrown maybe dove is the i got really thrown by doves i don't think i've ever heard you say the word before i don't have a bad thing to say about them No, you've not.

Speaker 2 It's your 90s. And those collared doves that come into my garden.
I absolutely love them. Okay.

Speaker 2 Do you know what?

Speaker 2 What was the

Speaker 2 tan doves?

Speaker 2 Oh, you do like hash browns. I like hash browns.
I should have. I should have

Speaker 2 been the one.

Speaker 2 I've seen you eat and enjoy hash browns for two decades. I'm known for it.

Speaker 2 I always see. Unless they're floppy, but I'm assuming a good hash browns.
Oh, yeah, it's the best of what you're seeing. So whenever you're offered hash browns, you say yes.

Speaker 2 So so that should have been enough of a clue i'll have a minimum of three oh that should have been enough i just got so i've thrown you off with stuff

Speaker 2 sorry george it's a game that we've never even been close to playing before which is a compliment it's a fun gift i tell you what also it will be good live

Speaker 2 it would be good live i would have said cats for nine because cats bring you mice and rats don't mind don't mind because they're coming from a lovely little pussycat oh and

Speaker 2 you know you've got to have a litter tray, maybe, etc. True, true.
There are downsides. There are downsides.
But there might if I'd said

Speaker 2 cat, you'd have said ten. But you'd he'd have got a point off that.
It still wouldn't have been true.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and then a cat would have allowed me to recalibrate Hash Brown. True.
And

Speaker 2 yes. But I was so

Speaker 2 thrown by Dove. Okay.

Speaker 2 That's fine. But now we know.
Well, you know what's going to happen now. Every birthday alongside his birthday bucks, he's going to get lovely Dove merchandise.

Speaker 2 My mother's friend who's got a Westie always gets westy things.

Speaker 2 Thank you very much for a wonderful game. We're back to juices.
We're back to juice. We're back to juice.
Thank you for a wonderful show. It's been a pleasure.
It's been a load of fun.

Speaker 2 And we'll be back. And thank you to Tom Rosenthal as well.
Yes. And we'll be back with you next week.
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Doves.

Speaker 2 I've never heard anyone describe a a dove as a nine out of ten animal.

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