Are Stem Cells the Unlock to Regenerative Medicine? | Dr Joy Kong

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Speaker 2 Really talk about it much on the show, but was

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 2 my kids don't really understand what I do, you know. You know, I tell them, but

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I wanted them to know. I want them, I want there to be, I wanted them to be able to look back and be like, kind of know who their dad was, you know, like what I was all about.

Speaker 2 I mean, I talked to, I mean, I talk to them constantly.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's not like they don't know me, but they're, they're kids now, you know, like they, it's impossible for them to fully understand who you are when you're 44 and they're 11, you know, so like, they just, you can't fully understand who you are.

Speaker 2 And I think it, it's kind of hopefully cool if they're interested in or whatever, that when they get older and maybe they're in their 40s, they can look back at these shows or, you know, and be like, oh, like, that's what my dad was thinking.

Speaker 2 F, you know, now I'm kind of similar age, similar part in life. And, you know, kind of compare.
I think that's, that's interesting. I have two boys.

Speaker 4 Your show is focusing a lot on entrepreneurship, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 that's how it started.

Speaker 2 What I'm, what I'm personally the most interested in is just overall

Speaker 2 peak performance and becoming the best versions of ourselves. So I have people from all over the spectrum on.
And,

Speaker 2 you know, it's more just, I like talking to interesting people or trying to help other people be better. Yeah.
Whatever that takes. And sometimes it's like, you know, like I've had Dr.

Speaker 2 Brian Keating on and he's a doctor by of like

Speaker 2 astrophysics or he goes by professor, I guess now, because too many people are giving him shit about his, he's got a doctorate. He's not a doctor.

Speaker 2 But, but he's an astrophysicist, right?

Speaker 2 So I had him on the show, which has nothing to do with business, but like his, I wanted his, I wanted to share his mindset, you know, because he's such a, the way he thinks is very interesting, the way he breaks down problems.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I mean, they're telling us that stuff is real, that they, you know,

Speaker 2 can only see through a telescope, you know, X number of billion miles away. Like, how do you convince people of that? You know, that's interesting to me.
So it's all good. Dr.

Speaker 2 Joy, I'm so incredibly happy to have you on the show.

Speaker 2 When someone like our mutual friend, Mick Hunt, refers me a guest, I get very excited because I know it's someone who's just going to be incredible and share tons of knowledge.

Speaker 2 I want to start with like, what is the difference between like regenerative medicine and regular medicine?

Speaker 2 Like what is the call out for regenerative that makes it different from maybe what we've experienced as medicine through going to our GP for most of our lives?

Speaker 4 Well, really, regenerative medicine has been around ever since humans are around because we regenerate and that's what we can do.

Speaker 4 So if you can tap into a way of doing medicine that cokes that capability instead of fighting the body, I think that's one of the problems with conventional medicine: it's looking at the body as a battleground.

Speaker 4 And I'm going there, I'm waging battles, and I'm trying to fight enemies, and I'm trying to fight the wrong receptors, the wrong

Speaker 4 neurotransmitters, or the wrong protein. So, you're going there to wage battle.
But what if you're looking at it differently? That you're now working with the body and tricking the body into

Speaker 4 making healthier versions of itself.

Speaker 4 And all of a sudden, that you're elevating the body instead of just focusing on fighting a particular issue, which has a whole slew of problems, such as side effects of these medications, and not fundamentally curing or really fixing the problem.

Speaker 4 So a lot of people just end up with many, many medications, 10, 20, 30, 40 medications before they die. And that's really not the best way for human health, right?

Speaker 4 It's not, if you can just fully repair, that would be ideal.

Speaker 2 A neophyte, but completely believe in working towards this, which is why I love having people like you on because we get to, we get to learn, the audience gets to learn.

Speaker 2 And, you know, this really, this, this came to me

Speaker 2 and I, and I started to see something's wrong. I don't understand it.
I'm not a doctor, but I could tell something was wrong with when it came to my mother. So my mother has,

Speaker 2 she's got some issues with her eyes and different stuff. And a lot of it was inflammation related, right? So, a lot of the different things she has is inflammation related.

Speaker 2 And the doctor, you know, her doctor, and this is nothing against her doctor, right?

Speaker 2 But, but his recommendation was basically a medicine to cure or a pill to cure the inflammation, but then there needed to be another pill to deal with the side effects of that medication.

Speaker 2 And then a third pill, or no, that was it. Then there was a shot that she needed to take to deal with the side effects of the medication that dealt with the side effects of the anti-inflammatory.

Speaker 2 And I was like, that, I mean, again, not a doctor, but just logically, that doesn't feel

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 2 we shouldn't have to take three different things to solve one problem. Right.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so my understanding of regenerative medicine is also kind of a philosophy of getting out ahead of these things before the issue actually occurs. Is that

Speaker 4 yeah, both ways. So either get ahead or actually fixing it really effectively by addressing the root causes.

Speaker 4 So yeah, if some tissue is damaged and there's low blood flow and you can go in there, give the body something that tell the local tissue to start to repopulate and then tell the blood vessels to start to expand and grow more blood vessels to supply the tissue all of a sudden you're getting full healing in that area.

Speaker 4 So, you know, it's funny that you mentioned that case because it's so typical.

Speaker 4 It's almost like if you you have to set a race between regenerative medicine and conventional medicine, there's no race. And it just is so evident because

Speaker 4 they just keep

Speaker 4 showing how ineffective the old system is.

Speaker 4 Not to say that all medicine is, you know, all modern medicine is not good. There's a lot of amazing things and just incredible advances.

Speaker 4 But when it comes to chronic illnesses, the way it's addressing it is really misguided. That's why it's ineffective.

Speaker 4 That's why you see things like people getting on medication after medication to address previous medication. And it just shows how ineffective it is.

Speaker 4 But when you use these,

Speaker 4 you can use cells, you can use growth factors, peptides, you can use light, you can use different supplements. All these can target how the body is going to replenish.
and make new of itself.

Speaker 4 So that's why, you know, we are so excited about it because who doesn't want us make new, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know, you just, and you just literally hit like

Speaker 2 three quarters of the agenda items that I want to talk about today because I'm so interested in these things.

Speaker 2 You know, one last story just for the audience.

Speaker 2 So I have a hereditary high cholesterol. I've been having my cholesterol checked and had high cholesterol since I was eight years old.
And,

Speaker 2 you know, I think right now I'm like at 260 or something like that. But it's always been in in that range.
Now, depending on who you talk to, 260 isn't even high. But

Speaker 2 my doctor last time I went in was like, you know, I got my blood work done. And she's like, it's been too many years.
You got to go on Lipitor. Now,

Speaker 2 I don't want to go on Lipitor because there's a ton of side effects that come from Lipitor. And I just don't want that in my body.
And I was like, well, so I did a.

Speaker 2 Google, you know, I Google doctored. I did Google MD, you know, and found that like, basically, if you don't have any plaque, there's nothing, and I'm again, not a doctor, right?

Speaker 2 But if there's no plaque, then there's nothing for the cholesterol to grab onto. And I said to her, well,

Speaker 2 what if, can I go get a plaque test? And she's like, well, if you must, and I was like, cause I go, we're on the same page that if like my plaque is zero, I don't need libraries, right?

Speaker 2 And she's like, well, technically, you're right. I'm just like,

Speaker 2 it like shattered my confidence in my relationship with my doctor that like she knew that before I went on Libitor, I should probably have this calcium test and didn't even mention it.

Speaker 2 She was just like right to Lipitor. And I was like, oh my God, like I have to start, I have to start really considering my health more, like not just relying on someone's opinion.

Speaker 2 Like I have to start to do my own research.

Speaker 2 And that's why all of this is a preface

Speaker 2 to get to some of these things that I want to talk about, because I think

Speaker 2 there is so much information. And it it feels to me like we are, especially now that we have

Speaker 2 like RFK in, you know.

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Speaker 2 For better or for worse in the different things he's doing, he is opening people's mind up to the fact that we can't just blindly listen to the advice from RGP and just that's absolutely going to be okay.

Speaker 2 So I want to start with one that I think is probably,

Speaker 2 people probably heard the term, but have literally, might have literally no idea what it is. And that's stem cells.
Like maybe just explain what stem cells are for the audience first.

Speaker 2 Right now, you may have heard of it.

Speaker 2 Let's break down stem cells.

Speaker 4 I'm hoping that we've gone, you know, beyond that point quite a bit because when I first started in the field, now it's been nine years. People did ask me that all the time.

Speaker 4 The first few years, what is a stem cell? What are you talking about? What is it? But now the question usually is, oh my God, I heard stem cells are amazing, but I have this issue.

Speaker 4 Do you think stem cells can help me? So the conversation has definitely shifted. Nonetheless, it's still important to define what stem cells are because

Speaker 4 there's still even misconceptions about what they are.

Speaker 4 Some people even refer to PRP as stem cell therapy. Some people refer to like things like ambnionic fluid.
There's almost no cells. So, but first of all, what is a stem cell?

Speaker 4 Just think of you and me, how we started in this universe, this life,

Speaker 4 is by forming the first stem cell. And from that stem cell, we started to divide and specialize.
Different cells are going to directions.

Speaker 4 We have this magical migration and formation of the human being, right? So that...

Speaker 4 from that first cell, whatever that's in that blueprint, in the DNA in that first cell, somehow it is capable of directing the forming of this miraculous being, this complex little universe that can walk and talk and think and interact with each other.

Speaker 4 So that type of intelligence is really what we're trying to tap into in stem cell therapy.

Speaker 4 So from that one cell, you can form other stem cells all the way until they become cells of a particular tissue. Let's say your heart.
Your heart has heart muscle cells.

Speaker 4 But before it becomes a heart muscle cell, it was a heart muscle stem cell. So that is called the N-tissue stem cell.

Speaker 4 That's the last step of a stem cell before it loses its stem cell status and become a working cell.

Speaker 2 So it goes through the cell, goes through puberty, kind of.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I like that. Yeah.
So anywhere along the line,

Speaker 4 those cells are a stem cell until you become a tissue-specific cell.

Speaker 4 So we can intercept as, you know as doctors anywhere before that and we can put the cells in the body and they have tremendous potentials.

Speaker 4 First of all, they secrete a lot of growth factors and they send a lot of signals. So these exosomes are little packets that that's one of the main ways that the stem cells are sending out signals.

Speaker 4 So the cells are potent in triggering

Speaker 4 actions in neighboring cells in the system and they also have the capabilities to divide, usually asymmetrically, because they would divide into one copy of itself and another copy that's more specialized.

Speaker 4 So now we got a, you know, more capabilities, but less potential to become everything. So you get narrower and then you get deeper, right, into your function.

Speaker 4 So, but, but really, stem cell is anywhere along the line. And there are different

Speaker 4 aspects or different categories depending on what you're trying to utilize.

Speaker 4 There's embryonic stem cells, which are very early cells that we don't really use in this country for treatments because it's hard to control.

Speaker 2 They are a little wild.

Speaker 4 They can become tissues of any kind and oftentimes can form tumor. So even though they can become anything, but

Speaker 4 there's a potential risk. And then there are cells that's and organ cells.
Let's say you want to grow neuron and then you can grow a neuron, you know, a particular progenitor cells for the neuron.

Speaker 4 But that is more difficult because they're very small in number. Sometimes you may have to induce other cells to become these cells.
And now,

Speaker 4 at least at this point, FDA says now if you're trying to induce any cell to do anything or you're trying to grow them to large numbers, you are making a drug.

Speaker 4 So whether or not I agree with it is a whole other question, but that is what FDA FDA says. Now you've changed the cells, now you need to conduct clinical study.

Speaker 4 And this is one reason that things are slowed down. You can't just go ahead and try to trigger some cells to become this new group of cells, new type of cells to tailor your treatments.

Speaker 4 and then or grow them into large numbers. Now you're creating a drug.
Now it's millions and millions of dollars go into research and approval and this time and energy.

Speaker 4 And so that slows things down quite a bit.

Speaker 4 So what we use mostly in this country and around the world right now is what's called mesenchymal stem cell is the most popular type. You can also use core blood or

Speaker 4 bone marrow. They contain a lot of the

Speaker 4 other type of cells, they're primitive immune cells or cells that can form the whole blood system. So you can use those as well.
But mesenchymal stem cells is the most popular.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 those cells actually are all along your blood vessels.

Speaker 4 Anywhere you have any blood supply, you can rest assured that these cells are hovering over it and they're sensing what's going through your blood.

Speaker 4 And they're also keeping tabs on what's in that neighboring environment to coordinate how to help your body repair.

Speaker 4 So those cells are easy to use and you don't in the US, we are using cells that have not been expanded, which means grown into large numbers in a culture medium.

Speaker 4 But overseas, they do expand them so they can create much bigger numbers. That's a whole other subject because...

Speaker 4 uh from what i know so far when you grow the cells to that kind of large numbers you are losing potency and you're also allowing the cells to start differentiate so they're growing their own surface receptors that will mark them as coming from somebody else because we're getting these cells from a very young source from the umblical cord right usually that's from another person, unless you saved your own cord, you can use your own.

Speaker 4 Um, so you, when you start to expand them, grow them, then you're increasing the chance that the recipient is going to recognize, oh my god, these cells are not from me, so let me attack, or they can attack the host.

Speaker 4 So, that can cause a whole range of side effects

Speaker 2 and stem cell treatment in general, particularly in this country, seems to be like a slightly contentious topic, right? There's, I've heard arguments

Speaker 2 that you can't, sometimes you can't like recreate the results. I've heard, you know, read arguments about just the morality of using an umbilical cord.

Speaker 2 That tends to be from some of our more religious groups. Like there's, there seems, this doesn't, it does seem to be a lot of controversy around this.
So maybe what are the,

Speaker 2 to me, it makes sense that as we continue to evolve, deal with new environmental factors, we continue to understand how our bodies work, our bodies obviously repair themselves.

Speaker 2 We see it in real time when we're injured, right? So like we know these things are there.

Speaker 2 What is the counter argument to stem cells? Why would someone push back against this type of treatment or

Speaker 2 just outright try to deny it from even being used?

Speaker 4 Gosh, that's a great question. And there's so much that we can go into.
So first of all, there are a lot of myths.

Speaker 4 So if people happen to encounter some myths and their brain cells get stuck on those myths, that's one form of resistance. One of the myths is that, oh, stem cells are not legal in the U.S.

Speaker 4 Well, that's completely wrong because I've been doing stem cell therapy for nine years. I've taught

Speaker 4 over a thousand doctors how to do stem cell therapy. So we're all there providing therapy and it's absolutely legal.
Well, first of all, there's nothing that says it's illegal.

Speaker 4 So it's in a gray area. So no one can say that what you're doing is illegal unless you are breaking certain rules, right? It's still not legality.
The FDA did put out guidelines,

Speaker 4 although there's no legal, you know, really bearing because it's not

Speaker 4 a law. It's not enforceable.
It's an agency's guideline. What do the guidelines say? The agency, well, they can come after you if you...

Speaker 4 don't follow the guideline, but still you're not breaking the law per se, right?

Speaker 4 So, but the guidelines are if you use the cells for the same purpose of what the cells were doing in the body before, and then you're not manipulating and changing the cells in any way, such as using chemicals or enzymes to treat them, which can cause changes, or growing them in large to not large numbers, and because alterations can also happen.

Speaker 4 So, if you don't do that and you fulfill the same purpose, then you are providing a tissue transplantation. You're not using this as a drug.

Speaker 4 So, if you're you're tissue transplanting, you're not really dealing with the whole drug control aspect. You are dealing with how medicine is practiced.

Speaker 4 So you have your patients to answer to, and you have your medical board, each state's medical board to answer to if you don't do things right. So it's being governed in a whole different

Speaker 4 from different entities.

Speaker 4 So when the doctor is doing, providing tissue transplant, just like a doctor, like I'm a licensed physician surgeon.

Speaker 4 So basically, we're trained to be, we can do any medical practice or provide any surgeries. So that's what our license is for.
And when we do tissue transplant,

Speaker 4 that is a procedure that we can do just like blood transfusion, just like any organ transplantation.

Speaker 4 If there's a medical necessity and a doctor can justify from either literature or

Speaker 4 any kind of standard of practice, that there's some kind of standard established, then they can do it, right? They can justify. But frankly,

Speaker 4 a doctor can do anything they want, to be honest, as long as they're not causing harm. Let's say a doctor believes that there's something in the dirt is really, really good.

Speaker 4 And the doctor says, I think you should put this in the water and drink it. And the doctor can do that as long as you're not causing harm.
So that's the scope of practice.

Speaker 4 So that's the first myth that people think is not legal and it's absolutely legal. Why do we have this myth?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 4 there are some vested interests in people who want stem cell therapy to be illegal in the U.S. So, everybody can go across the border, go to Panama, Costa Rica, you know, the Bahamas, Mexico, right?

Speaker 4 They would love for people to think that their only option is by taking a plane to those places.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 that's one myth.

Speaker 2 Joy, do you also, sorry to interrupt you, but Dr.

Speaker 2 Do you think

Speaker 2 how much of this is also

Speaker 2 like the scenarios that we talked about at the very beginning

Speaker 2 where

Speaker 2 there's so much, seemingly so much more money to be made in stacking prescriptions on prescriptions on prescriptions?

Speaker 2 And if there's a preventative or regenerative medicine that someone can start to use that keeps them from actually experiencing any of those issues later where these drug companies make all their money.

Speaker 2 I mean, I mean, we know we've seen in RFK and has started to already uncover some of this where these drug companies are petitioning and in many cases, you know, doing in-kind trade with the FDA in order to block certain therapies and certain types of drugs because they can they can actually limit the need for all of these stacks of drugs that they're making billions on.

Speaker 2 I mean, is that part of it at all? Is there internal push and internal,

Speaker 2 not to go too down the conspiracy theory role, although conspiracy theories are my favorite?

Speaker 2 You know, is there any of that happening inside the states as well?

Speaker 4 I wish I could say no, but from what I have heard, I have learned is that there's really no,

Speaker 4 there's no intention

Speaker 4 on the FDA's part to really push or fully accept or even wanting these therapies to be approved. So, I have heard

Speaker 4 certain

Speaker 4 direct evidence that point toward the fact that

Speaker 4 this agency really is not excited about pushing this forward.

Speaker 4 It may say so. It may say that we want you to do studies to do this and that.
But what I've seen with companies is that they're given the runaround and they are asked to do things, you know, that

Speaker 4 maybe they think that certain things were not done correctly, then they have to redo certain things and they go around and around. And some company run out of money, go bankrupt.
And

Speaker 4 still, even very powerful company that I know

Speaker 4 has not been able to achieve any kind of approval. So there's definitely institutional resistance.

Speaker 2 It's the red tape roadblock. Yeah.
So it's like, yeah, you can do this, Dr. Joy, but here's 17 hoops you need to jump through.
And

Speaker 4 we want you to do this, but you just do this first. And then somehow I just couldn't finish doing those things.

Speaker 2 All right. So some people think it's illegal.

Speaker 2 What are some of the other myths that people are running into?

Speaker 4 People think, oh, are you killing babies?

Speaker 4 Well, I don't know anybody that's killing babies in the United States. Maybe in other countries, especially if they're doing fetal stem cell treatments, such as Ukraine, I've

Speaker 4 definitely abortion will be involved and it involves a destruction of a fetus, but that's not legal in this country. So no babies killed.
And embryonic stem cells are not used for clinical use.

Speaker 4 You can't give it to people as treatment. You can do it as research, but you can't give it to any humans.

Speaker 4 So the cells we use either is from a person's own, like your own bone marrow, your own fat, we can get from your dental pulp like there are different sources menstrual blood but um

Speaker 4 more and more popular and because it's it's it's more powerful is the early birth tissue derived stem cells such as from the umblical cord so the umblical cord is obtained only after a healthy baby is born right what do you do with the cord usually in the past you cut the cord and you toss in the trash now we know no don't toss it.

Speaker 4 There's so much incredible things in this that we can use it to help people repair and heal. So

Speaker 4 that's another myth that people think that anyone's harmed by getting stem cell therapy. I think partially was because years back, George W.
Bush banned embryonic stem cell.

Speaker 4 He didn't ban the research. He just banned federal funding.
that supports more embryo destruction. So he just didn't want more lives.

Speaker 2 Was that like an anti-abortion play? Was that kind of playing? Is that what that's like kind of a side product?

Speaker 4 There's a little bit of

Speaker 4 ideological battle going on in the US.

Speaker 4 So he passed a law banning federal funding for a stem cell

Speaker 4 new destruction of an embryo. But people who or labs who already have these embryonic stem cell lines that you, you know, you just keep using the same line to do research, That's not banned.

Speaker 4 So they can still research, but still, they can't give it to humans for just clinical use.

Speaker 4 So that's another people get

Speaker 2 like why, if they're able to do the research and they find out that something could actually help people,

Speaker 2 why? Is it again, is that just biological and political?

Speaker 4 So that's definitely a highly manipulated process, right? You're getting cells from the embryonic

Speaker 4 basically day five to seven when the fetus is forming, the embryo is forming, there's a ball of cells. And inside the ball, there's certain, you know, straggling these cells.

Speaker 4 They're called inner cell mass. And you can grab any cell from that inner cell mass and you can form a full human.
So

Speaker 4 that's the embryonic stem cell that

Speaker 4 they're getting. So you can get that from day five to seven after fertilization.

Speaker 4 The problem is that they are still difficult to control, that they can cause what's called teratoma, which is an uncontrolled growth of tumor it could be all kinds of cells from like hair teeth bone they're all clustered together so

Speaker 4 there are other countries who are doing embryonic stem cell treatment just not in the US however people have heard horror stories of how a person grow a tumor and a lot of time they grow a tumor on the back that's very commonplace so all of a sudden they grow a tumor on their spine and there have been people who have been paralyzed because of this so there's a little bit of well there's high risk that we can control these cells that they can just all of a sudden start to form tumor cells so that's one reason it's not allowed in the us besides the etiological you know concerns of destroying of an embryo yeah yeah seven days is pretty early um to to do that kind of thing i was i was thinking more like you know living in new york and it don't mean it's to be political but New York loves abortions and all these babies are going somewhere.

Speaker 2 You know, I would rather if we're going to, I'm obviously I swing a little more conservative, but if we're going to, if we're going to allow for all this, you know, part of me is like, you know, maybe at least we could use them for good and help the people that are still here.

Speaker 2 But if it's that early, that's really early. And plus, it seems to me like that's pretty scary.

Speaker 2 But what you're saying is that, okay, so that that might be the more scary side that are used as scare tactics going all the way to embryonic, but something like umbilical cord, much more stable, much more, we can use it for research and we can actually use it for products.

Speaker 4 Umbilical cord is almost the best of both worlds because it contains some of the early markers as the embryonic stem cell, which really

Speaker 4 shows that they are more flexible, they've got more potentials, they're just in a more primitive state.

Speaker 4 And then they're so down the stream because they are all the way, come have all the way down to the formation of the baby.

Speaker 4 So they have also evolved to the point where they are not going to go crazy, go haywire.

Speaker 4 So, so these cells were trapped when the embryo was forming, and then they're retaining some of the characteristics of the early embryo, but also they just lost some of the crazy potentials.

Speaker 2 Yeah, awesome. So, why would why would someone want, like, what's a use case for stem cells for someone who's listening?

Speaker 2 And, you know, like, what are some of the things that we use them for today today that, you know, people can think about in their own life as a potential treatment versus maybe, again, going down this pharmaceutical rabbit hole, which I'm obviously answering.

Speaker 4 The exciting thing is that the range just

Speaker 4 keeps expanding, either from research, published research, or from anecdotal clinical practice.

Speaker 4 Even if you just look at research, it's extremely active all around the world.

Speaker 4 There are so many conditions.

Speaker 4 I know this because I've read almost all of them, all these articles, because I teach a course through the academy I founded called American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy.

Speaker 4 So I train all these doctors and I train them through evidence. I don't train them through my philosophy, right? This is all about evidence.
Let's see what we have. found out

Speaker 4 through rigorous research. So there are evidence of every organ system, just from head to toe, right?

Speaker 4 From brain diseases as early as autism, you know, cerebral palsy, as late as Alzheimer's or later, you know, other neurological neurodegenerative conditions.

Speaker 4 And we have cardiac issues, heart, lung, liver,

Speaker 4 reproductive systems, and all kinds of musculoskeletal issues, all kinds of systemic conditions like autoimmune issues or cancer. I mean, you name it, there's a tremendous amount of evidence.

Speaker 4 And then every day, the doctors that I work with and me, we keep accumulating new evidence. Basically, we're in the frontier.
We're right in the front line. And

Speaker 4 we start to see things that have never been seen before, right? So a few examples, even just things I've seen. I mean, I couldn't believe, there are a few cases I just couldn't believe.

Speaker 4 One of them was a patient that

Speaker 4 had a,

Speaker 4 when he was nine years old, he got a brain surgery from, because of a brain tumor.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 4 the surgery went, you know, didn't go very well. There was a problem, so the optic nerve was damaged.
So he couldn't see from that one eye for 44 years until he got stem cell therapy from us.

Speaker 4 He's starting to see in that one eye.

Speaker 4 So this is something that, like, I would have never, if I had done a consultation with a patient, I would have just said, you know, I doubt this is going to help your vision. You know,

Speaker 4 I would not anticipate. I mean, I just, I wouldn't, I would never give false hopes.
But the fact that the person is starting to see, it just, it is so inspiring of what these cells are capable of.

Speaker 4 And one of my earliest patients was a liver cirrhosis patient. He didn't qualify for liver transplant because he was an IV drug user.

Speaker 4 He was in hospice and he was,

Speaker 4 had almost no strength to talk and is extremely emaciated with a big belly, the ascites.

Speaker 4 And I give him one treatment and I couldn't believe it as I found out later because I was planning on doing more, but he didn't show up. But he got

Speaker 4 recovered so fast that even on the way, on his drive from Los Angeles to Sacramento, within those four or five hours,

Speaker 4 the swelling had gone down halfway. It was just, I couldn't believe it.
And then

Speaker 4 within a few weeks, he was walking around talking like a normal person.

Speaker 4 And then within a couple months, when he went back to his primary care, his liver specialist, and his liver test actually was normal. So that one was absolutely incredible.

Speaker 4 And it could be an outlier. However, show me a conventional medicine, any medicine you have that can create this.
You know, I will be in shock. We don't have anything like this.

Speaker 4 So there are outliers of extraordinary outcomes. and there are people whose outcome is not as extraordinary and then vast majority is in between.

Speaker 4 People are getting

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Speaker 4 Incredible benefits from previously

Speaker 4 with no medications, no medical treatment was making a difference. So it may take several sessions.
So it's not a miraculous thing, but still,

Speaker 4 we are able to create changes that the conventional medicine really didn't have tools to create.

Speaker 2 And sort of in a very non-medical way,

Speaker 2 essentially, like taking the individual with the optic nerve, essentially the stem cells are are helping to regrow the damaged tissue associated with, say, like the optic nerve or something.

Speaker 2 Is that the idea?

Speaker 4 Or yeah, from from what we give him, right? We're not giving him neuroprogenitor cells. We're not injecting right into the area.
And a lot of times we don't have to because of how these cells work.

Speaker 4 So, how I consult with patients is really by talking about how the cells work and to see if that can dovetail their condition. So, something like

Speaker 4 optic nerve damage. So, there's tissue death and damage.
Maybe it's not dead, maybe just severely damaged, but still, the person could not see.

Speaker 4 There could be a local inflammatory mechanism going on, that there's so much inflammation that it's diseased, right? There's just

Speaker 4 a blockage of signaling. So how do the stem cells work? So the mesenchymal stem cells I'm talking about, that's one of the

Speaker 4 main players in regenerative medicine. The mechanism is one, is highly anti-inflammatory.
So think about chronic illnesses and how many of these have inflammation as part of the mechanism.

Speaker 4 So if you can calm the inflammation, now you're allowing the body to go to the other way of existing, which is to regenerate.

Speaker 2 Dr. Joy, I just want to stop for a second and have you touch on this.
This is something that I have learned over the years.

Speaker 2 Because I had such bad tissue damage in my right elbow from playing college baseball and throwing improperly for so long that there was a period of time where, like, I don't know if you can see the people watching on YouTube, this is what my right arm looked like.

Speaker 2 Now, now I can extend it all the way. But there, for a period of time, this was as far as I could extend my right arm because of how much tissue damage and inflammation was going on in my elbow.

Speaker 2 And I had doctors go, oh, that just happens to baseball players and blah, blah, blah. And you use your elbow and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 And then I finally found a physical therapist who was, who like gave me this intense download on inflammation. And I had no idea.
Like, I don't know, a regular person, you hear the term.

Speaker 2 I mean, today you might hear it more, but this is 15 years ago. And

Speaker 2 I just didn't realize. I mean, I simply, I did two things.

Speaker 2 One, I broke down the, some of the scar tissue with a, whatever, like a roller, but all I really did was change my diet to a highly anti-inflammatory diet.

Speaker 2 And my arm just started to creep down, down, down. And now I pretty much eat an anti-inflammatory diet all the time as much as I can, although I do occasionally like a cocktail.

Speaker 2 And now I have full range of motion just from changing my diet and inflammation. And

Speaker 2 I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just, i i think what you're saying is so incredibly important this idea of the reduction of inflammation in our day-to-day lives and i i guess my question to you is like is there a is there it do you think stem cell therapy will ever be a a just um oh i'm losing the right word right now because i just went off on that story

Speaker 4 like a day-to-day yeah a day-to-day just preventative that's where we're going that's where we we are we will be there um i'm we'll be there in our lifetime and you know i hopefully within 10 15 years, I'm really hoping.

Speaker 4 It really depends on the regulatory atmosphere and how it just, yeah, that has a lot to do with how fast we can get there. So, and your example of

Speaker 4 your arm, it's just so beautiful because

Speaker 4 you are doing regenerative medicine, right, through a dietary approach because calming the inflammation, you're

Speaker 4 addressing this through a systemic method. And that's one of the mainstays of how I use stem cells to help people is through the systemic route.
Because

Speaker 4 your arm, the tissue damage is

Speaker 4 the reason it's chronic is because your body somehow could not repair it. Because acute injury, yes, you're going to be inflamed, you're going to be in pain.

Speaker 4 But if your body is doing its job, cells should get right over there, take away the bat cells, calm the inflammation. Now you can start

Speaker 4 regenerating. And why couldn't you? It's because your body was in this stuck position, is in this place of inflammation that it can't move on from.

Speaker 4 Now, when you change shift your diet, all of a sudden you're allowing all the anti-inflammatory signals to come through, and now you can heal.

Speaker 4 So, that's what we're doing with stem cell therapy as well. One of the main reasons stem cells work so well is that it calms the inflammation.
Inflammation is hand-in-hand with aging.

Speaker 4 As we age, it doesn't matter how healthy you are. Your inflammation level is getting higher and higher as evidenced by inflammatory markers.
You're just going to get higher markers.

Speaker 4 It doesn't matter if you're a perfectly healthy, vibrant, older person. So inflammation is...

Speaker 4 closely related to aging and aging is closely related with disease is the most predictive factor of chronic illness including cancer so if we can calm the inflammation we can actually slow down the aging decline.

Speaker 4 So that's one of the powerful methods. And the other thing that stem cell therapy worked really well on is immune regulation.
So that's kind of hand in hand with the inflammation.

Speaker 4 So if you're stuck in inflammation, that means your immune system is

Speaker 4 more shifted toward inflammatory response. but there's a counter response that your system just get lower and lower in their capability of evoking.
So,

Speaker 4 when you are using stem cells, it can shift your body, get you out of that inflammatory

Speaker 4 stickiness, and now you can move on to regeneration. That's why it's been extremely powerful in autoimmune diseases.
It's like one of the places it just shines.

Speaker 4 If you have autoimmune, you have lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, and all kinds of odd, you know, autoimmune diseases.

Speaker 4 I believe they're calling the same diseases by over 120 names. So that make them feel better, make the doctors feel better.
I know exactly, I know the organ.

Speaker 4 I know the problem of which organ and this is autoimmune, but not realizing that it's the same disease, it just pops up in different places. So, which means

Speaker 4 the repair, the cure or

Speaker 4 the method of addressing it could be just one. If you just reduce the inflammation and shift your immune system, it doesn't matter what you have, and everything can get better.

Speaker 4 So, that's the immune regulation. And besides that, it has all kinds of cool stuff that it can do, like breaking down scar tissue.
I've seen that in liver cirrhosis, in lung fibrosis, right?

Speaker 4 COPD and other lung damages, in perones, which is an abnormal curvature of the penis because of inflammatory plaques, it's really easy to

Speaker 4 help. One injection is straightened right up.
And so the breaking down of scar tissue is something that is exciting because conventional medicine has nothing for it.

Speaker 2 So, and I've heard that women like a little curve, but you know, I'm just saying I don't want to knock all, you know, we don't want to knock all that.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 I couldn't help myself.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 yeah, I still have a like 11-year-old sense of humor. Okay.
so I want to rapid fire some things at you and kind of just get your quick thoughts on a couple, you know, kind of moving.

Speaker 2 We spent a lot of time on stem cells, which I really appreciate.

Speaker 2 I also, um, whether we do it with everyone listening or when we go, I want to figure out what like dark web website I can go to to order some like, you know, some something I can start to test with.

Speaker 2 I love testing stuff. Um,

Speaker 2 okay.

Speaker 2 So I'm going to throw like a few different,

Speaker 2 I'm going to either maybe misclassified, maybe not but but just uh regenerative type medicines or or that i've seen classified as regenerative and just get your feedback on some of these um the first and we'll we'll start we'll start light and maybe move a little heavier like uh uh infrared therapy slash sauna heat therapy as a way to help your body regenerate

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 4 I don't know how much evidence, but definitely infra sauna. We know light is highly,

Speaker 4 you know, very good for cells, cellular health, and for detoxification. Of course, that's going to enhance the health of your cells.

Speaker 4 I think we just, we're at the beginning of understanding what light can do. I do use light in our stem cell treatment, actually.
I use laser light of different colors and wavelengths, so red,

Speaker 4 green, and violet. So three different colors, those will target different mitochondrial enzymes.

Speaker 4 And that elevates the mitochondrial function of course that is the powerhouse for the cells and that will elevate your body's you know function period so um

Speaker 4 and also we i can direct the cells to particular locations if i use the laser to target but um yeah to to answer your question i love infra asana and i think light therapy is a really really powerful adjunct i think we're just at the beginning of understanding how much of light beans we are yeah i i think i i've heard i have a I've done it a few times,

Speaker 2 but I have a few buddies who've like made it part of the routine and they

Speaker 2 swear by it. I mean, they're like, oh my gosh, my skin, the way I feel, it's incredible, but that's good to know.
Okay.

Speaker 2 What about NAD?

Speaker 2 Talking about mitochondrial energy. Like I've heard a lot of people, I take a NAD powder that my.

Speaker 2 A friend who is very into optimization got me turned on to. And he said, said, hey, this is like the food for our mitochondria.
It helps our mitochondria work.

Speaker 2 It brings back cells that maybe, you know, gives them more energy.

Speaker 2 They perform for longer, et cetera.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 where does that play a mix in this? Is that part of something people should be considering?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's very popular.

Speaker 4 I think I've heard people getting tremendous results and feeling great and doing great.

Speaker 4 I just don't notice a big difference in me when I do it and it's very uncomfortable. But

Speaker 4 there are supplements you can also take to elevate your NAD level. So I think those are a good idea.

Speaker 4 There's still some controversies out there, you know, how much, you know, absorption rates and what kind of stuff. Yeah.
But I think in general, it could be helpful, but it's still individualized.

Speaker 4 Some people don't notice any benefit, but some people really swear by it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I have the people who swear by it, I've found are the ones who can tolerate the injections and the or the drips and sit there for two hours and get an NAD drip.

Speaker 2 But it's also, I think to your point, and just, you know, for the audience, my experience has been,

Speaker 2 it's very expensive for the lack of real.

Speaker 2 change that you seemingly feel, right? Like, you know what I mean? Like when you're talking like bang for the buck.

Speaker 2 Like you said, it seems nominal versus what you have to pay to experience it. Where, you know,

Speaker 2 I think you, I think there's other ways.

Speaker 2 Another one, and then

Speaker 2 I'm finishing with peptides because that's the one I'm actually very interested in. But but I've seen this everywhere.
And I actually saw it on your channel.

Speaker 2 I have not had a chance to watch a video yet. Methylene blue.

Speaker 2 I've had multiple people, not again, not a doctor, but I've had multiple because I have, because I do the podcast, people seemingly think I know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 Just so everyone's listening, I don't. That's why I bring guests on, like Dr.
Joy.

Speaker 2 But I've had people reach out to me about methylene blue and just said, What's this all about? I literally have no idea. What is methylene blue?

Speaker 2 Is this something that helps in this kind of regenerative frame, or is it another kind of fly-by-night thing that you see on Instagram and TikTok?

Speaker 4 Well, methylene blue has had a history of over 140 years.

Speaker 4 So it was developed as a dye, you know, to dye genes.

Speaker 4 But then apparently, people who were working in in these in these factories that were you know had their hands in these dyes they never got sick in one of the plagues that's how they realized that there's a lot of antimicrobial properties and so they were the first anti-malarial drug developed

Speaker 4 but later on they realized oh it can help with mental issues so people with in asylums they started giving psychotic patients these methylene blue and found out they were they were helpful And

Speaker 4 yeah, and then it was later on was used to

Speaker 4 help you fight

Speaker 4 carbon monoxide poisoning because it can help

Speaker 4 take the

Speaker 4 molecule, the damaging molecule off the oxygen, I mean off the red blood cells. But then they found out that they were

Speaker 4 you were able, people were able to use it for traumatic brain injury. So emergency rooms started to give IV infusions of methylene blue for people who have traumatic brain injury.

Speaker 4 And that's, I think, the popularity started to happen.

Speaker 4 I wonder if it has to do with COVID when so many people have brain fog and low energy, and people are searching for things that can really reverse that.

Speaker 4 And because what they found out is that it's a potent mitochondria enhancer. So

Speaker 4 now, people with brain fog, fatigue, and all

Speaker 4 kinds of conditions are able to get relief. And it's really great for brain health.
So that's how it was, it became, I think, popular. And of course, RFK was taking it.

Speaker 2 And yeah, no, that's really interesting because the guy that reached out to me is actually

Speaker 2 has long COVID or is dealing with the ramifications of long COVID. And he, ever since he got COVID, you know, he's had the brain fog and the lack of energy and some of the symptoms that have come.

Speaker 2 you know, I always part of me wants to be like, dude, you're 40-something years old. We all have, we're all not as sharp as we were in our 20s, but um, but no, he uh, it was that's interesting.

Speaker 2 So, that's really interesting that came out of COVID.

Speaker 2 Um, I know we're we're we're running out of time, but I have to ask you about, um, and we probably don't have enough time to dig into uh deeper into these, but it gives me a reason to have you back.

Speaker 2 Um, peptides, right? Um,

Speaker 2 I'm currently taking samoralin, um, which uh, my, I'm working with a woman who does hormone optimization.

Speaker 2 Uh, I had a really about a year ago, I got, I like ran into a brick wall, not literally, figuratively. Um, live in New York.
I deal with the New York winters for 44 years. I'm 44 years old.

Speaker 2 I've dealt with them my entire life. I understand there's, you know, vitamin D and everyone kind of has a drop.
You don't see the sun for about four months.

Speaker 2 But man, it was different. And I went and got my testosterone tested and I was at a 70.
So seventh percentile of men my age. Oh my goodness.
Which was, which was bad, which was odd.

Speaker 2 I mean, I work out, I eat well, you know, whatever. But I was way off, way off, right? Like no sex drive.
I was, it took me every ounce of energy I had to get to the gym, terrible workouts,

Speaker 2 really bad moods, whatever. And so we did a little bit of

Speaker 2 testosterone stuff and kind of got that straightened out and figured out what that was. And some of that may have been stress related.
But

Speaker 2 one of the things that she put me on was samoralin.

Speaker 2 And uh, and then that got me kind of researching more and learning more about what peptides can do. And so, just with the time we have remaining, I'd love for you to finish a little bit.

Speaker 2 Maybe just tell a little bit about how peptides work and if they work in conjunction with stem cells and how we should be considering these things.

Speaker 4 Yeah, peptides is really a nature's way of making getting things done. You know,

Speaker 4 in our body, we have uh over 300,000 different kinds of peptides. I mean, literally, it is a sea of peptides that's doing the work.

Speaker 4 So we've only discovered, I think, about 70,000 of them. No, about 7,000, no, 7,000 of them.
And

Speaker 4 we are only using maybe around 100 or so.

Speaker 4 But it's still an expanding field. There's new things coming out, new discoveries.

Speaker 2 The

Speaker 4 beauty about peptides is that they're so specific. You can target specific organs, specific functions, because it's like

Speaker 4 all these keys are floating around in your body and they're all searching for the lock.

Speaker 4 And so, if you can replenish the keys, because a lot of times as we age, we may have lost certain keys, and all of a sudden you can't unlock functions, or you have really short supply of it.

Speaker 4 You just can't get enough of the job done. So, now we can replenish it.
Now, we can unlock that function. That function can be be immune function.
So you can target by enhancing your thyroid function.

Speaker 4 I mean, thymus.

Speaker 4 So like the T alpha 1, the thymus beta 4, also called TB500. You can.

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