RHS 001 - A Masterclass in Communication with Marcus Sheridan

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Speaker 6 Welcome to the very first episode of the Ryan Hanley Show.

Speaker 8 I am Ryan Hanley, and today

Speaker 7 I give you Marcus Sheridan.

Speaker 6 My friend, my mentor, and honestly, one of the most decent human beings in the entire world.

Speaker 6 He's also incredibly smart, one of the best marketers, business owners, leaders, and certainly public speakers I've ever met.

Speaker 10 And today we talk about why communication is the future of your business.

Speaker 10 My thing has been digital sales and marketing for a while, right?

Speaker 10 And in fact, in the revised version of the Ask You Answer, I started to say digital sales and marketing a lot more than inbound, right? Started replacing the phrase with it.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 I'm thrilled because it took us over 11 months to do our first $100,000 in sales for the event last year. It took us four days to do $100,000 in sales for the event for this next year.

Speaker 8 It's amazing.

Speaker 10 Yeah, so

Speaker 8 pretty it's pretty excited about that pretty excited about that man it's awesome it's awesome dude i'm i mean i've been following along from afar essentially you know just watching what you've been doing and it's

Speaker 8 it's awesome it's everything that you that you talked about you know a year ago or whenever uh whenever it was it's it's wild to think that a year ago i was talking to you about impact and i was leaving trust and choice and stuff and we're having all those conversations um

Speaker 8 You know, all that stuff that you were talking about, everything you said, just watching seems like it's happening, which is, it's phenomenal.

Speaker 10 Well, I mean, I honestly, I'm not just saying this. I feel the exact same towards you.
I don't know if it's all front, but dude, I mean, it looks like you are just,

Speaker 10 just in your element right now and growing something

Speaker 10 that

Speaker 10 it's like thrilling for me to see you outside of the insurance space. Yeah.
And to, you know, to really.

Speaker 10 Start to just flex all those other muscles that you have that you weren't necessarily able to flex before, right? Because you were in that box. Yeah.

Speaker 10 And to see you start to work on your personal brand again is very, just for me, it's very fulfilling, satisfying to see.

Speaker 8 Thank you. You know, it has been, this is, you know how

Speaker 8 actually I just wrote about this the other day.

Speaker 8 I saw this exchange between Casey Neistat and Gary Vaynerchuk, and they were talking about why you need to say no more.

Speaker 8 And even though at the end, Gary throws throws in a caveat around,

Speaker 8 you know, he says yes more than he should or whatever, the essence of the piece of content was we need to say no more.

Speaker 8 And I think that that is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard in my entire life.

Speaker 8 And even though I understand that at a certain point, you are so inundated with offers that you do have to say no to things, and I can appreciate that.

Speaker 8 I think to tell people to say no to more stuff is terrible, terrible advice.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 8 I, so I wrote a little, I've been doing this little micro blog thing on Instagram or whatever, or just share a lot of stuff that I've done in my mind. And I just said, like, that, that's bad advice.

Speaker 8 Like, I didn't call them out specifically because it wasn't about that. It was about, you know,

Speaker 8 I just feel like I've said yes to a million things, a million meetings that, you know, drives my wife crazy because she's like, why are you going to that thing?

Speaker 8 You know, that person will never, you know, you're never going to do this or that. And this came out of this opportunity that I couldn't, I couldn't feel more fulfilled right now.

Speaker 8 This opportunity came out of just saying yes to meetings that had no bearing on my career at the time and getting to know somebody who

Speaker 8 I couldn't, you know, other than just getting, you know, giving him a little bit of advice on marketing and stuff, just listening to what he had going on and sharing some of my experience, you know, there was no monetary exchange.

Speaker 8 It was just two guys having coffee and talking. And that happened again and again and again.
And then all of a sudden, here I am, you know. And I just think

Speaker 8 it's serendipity, bro. And I couldn't, I have no way of explaining how I got here other than I feel lucky that I am.

Speaker 10 Dude.

Speaker 10 So I have to ask,

Speaker 10 what has been your biggest learning since you become like the head of of this like

Speaker 10 exploding ideally company? Like what's you had an idea going in and I'm sure you also knew there's just so much I don't know, right?

Speaker 10 But what's what's been the top one or two that were either surprises

Speaker 10 or just clear like wow, I never would have known that or thought to know that

Speaker 8 I had no idea what I was getting into beyond like

Speaker 8 I knew I liked the people and I believed in the product.

Speaker 10 Right.

Speaker 8 So the hard part for me with insurance was even though I valued what insurance was, there was no love for the thing. And ultimately,

Speaker 8 I saw it as a commodity and all the stuff. We talked about it a million times.
With this,

Speaker 8 I said, this is an opportunity to

Speaker 8 try to share

Speaker 8 a product that has real, deep, meaningful impact in the lives of the people who need it, right?

Speaker 8 Who, for whatever reason, are looking for something,

Speaker 8 whether it's community or camaraderie, or they just need to blow off steam so that they're not angry at their kids when they get home from work that day. Like this product has that for them.

Speaker 8 And I knew a lot of the people. I had gotten to know the people from just being around.

Speaker 10 So other than that, I had no idea.

Speaker 8 I'd never been part of a franchise before. No, no idea what it meant to franchise a business.

Speaker 8 I knew little to nothing outside of, you know, kind of what you, the basic stuff about the fitness industry. I didn't really know the inner workings of the business.

Speaker 8 But I knew the people. And

Speaker 8 I think at the end of the day, you know, that's what sold me on it was the people. I just said, gosh, if I get to work with these people every day

Speaker 8 and I don't have to get on airplanes all the time anymore,

Speaker 8 this is the right thing to do.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 so that's kind of where I came at it from. So I didn't have, I didn't, other than I knew I was gonna have to learn a lot fast,

Speaker 8 I didn't have a ton of expectations.

Speaker 8 That being said, to answer your actual question, now that I've been in what I've learned, I've learned, oh my gosh, I feel like I've been through three MBA courses in seven months.

Speaker 8 You know, we, I've, I've definitely learned how to pivot fast,

Speaker 8 you know, how to have tough conversations with vendors, with staff. I've had to fire people.
I've had to reposition people. I've had to, you know, share bad news.
You know, we're a startup.

Speaker 8 So, you know, I've had to adjust benefits that people were used to getting because of transferring. I've had to force people to make hard decisions.
I've had to make hard decisions.

Speaker 8 I've had to, you know, cut longtime vendors.

Speaker 8 I've had to readjust.

Speaker 8 I've positioned capital and resources in places that didn't work. And I've had to make decisions rapidly and decisively to change course.
And, you know, where we are today is really interesting.

Speaker 8 This

Speaker 8 product started

Speaker 8 or this path started with our product ultimately being a franchise. So Marcus Sheridan wanted to open a metabolic location in his hometown.

Speaker 8 You'd become a franchisee and everything that comes with that. Okay.

Speaker 10 Well,

Speaker 8 philosophically, we made a lot of decisions as to how to present you with this version of our product in a box,

Speaker 8 which

Speaker 8 our core philosophy is all about people. So, a lot of what would be considered our peers, even though many of them are much larger than us today,

Speaker 8 are all about technology.

Speaker 8 They're leveraging heart rate monitors and screens,

Speaker 8 and if anything, they're trying to remove the human as much as possible from the process

Speaker 8 while still keeping them there in what I would consider a fairly shallow way. way.
We are the opposite in every regard. It is all about the human beings.
There is limited technology.

Speaker 8 It is about human trainers giving everything they have, every class to 48 people.

Speaker 8 And when you put that much emphasis on the humans, things like training and brand philosophy and buy-in matter immensely.

Speaker 8 So we're positioning our business or repositioning our business and had to pivot many ways because we've already started to learn certain things don't work.

Speaker 8 It's, it's just, you know, how fast you have to make decisions has been eye-opening to me.

Speaker 8 And then having to live with those decisions and pivot off of your pivots or adjust course off of, you know, course adjustments, it's, it's tough to keep it all together. But,

Speaker 8 but I think the decisiveness is probably the how rapidly you have to make decisions is probably what I've learned the most.

Speaker 10 How many employees do you have right now?

Speaker 8 We have 10. If you count the trainers, we have 35 more.

Speaker 10 And how many franchisees do you have?

Speaker 8 We have,

Speaker 8 we've sold two locations and we have six current locations. So we have a total of eight.

Speaker 8 We have our ninth, which hopefully will sell in the next week or two.

Speaker 8 But I'd say the major pivot that we're making.

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Speaker 8 And our business is away from a pure franchise model, and we're going to start opening concurrently corporate locations. Because

Speaker 8 really,

Speaker 8 what we're trying to do for our business to work, brand is all that matters. I mean, the brand has to be consistent.
If you go to the Syracuse location and it sucks, then every location sucks.

Speaker 8 If you go to the, you know, in the capital district where I am, that's what they call Albany.

Speaker 8 You go to any of our locations, the community is slightly different, but the workout, the quality that it's delivered, the pace it's delivered in, everything is exactly the same.

Speaker 8 Like if you go to Saratoga, Clifton Park, Del Mar, it doesn't matter. You're getting the same workout, just maybe a slightly different version of it based on who the trainer is.
Okay.

Speaker 8 If you go then, go to Syracuse and the workout is terrible. It's low energy.
The music doesn't work. The floor is a disaster.
The trainer's walking around like they don't care.

Speaker 8 That impacts the entire ecosystem. of the gyms.
And

Speaker 8 because of the intensity in the training process, what we've decided is, and this is, this has been a major course correction for us, is we're going to start opening corporate locations and then selling open, operating, profitable locations to people as franchises instead of having them open the locations themselves.

Speaker 8 Because it's that first six to 12 months, that's really where things can fall apart.

Speaker 8 But if we've established an operating model with a studio manager who we know can do the job, all the back office stuff is incredibly easy to transfer over. So that's been a major pivot for us.

Speaker 8 And our goal is in the next 12 months to open 23 corporate locations.

Speaker 10 23 to 12 months to a month. Okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 8 So, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 So, you know, I'm franchising River Pools, right?

Speaker 8 I did not know that.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Talk to me about that process.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 So we started the legalese of that sometime last year.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 so

Speaker 10 there's only one

Speaker 10 other

Speaker 10 good

Speaker 10 franchise model in the swing pool industry called Premier Pools. They're the largest concrete pool company in the world because of it.
So they have franchisees all over the U.S.,

Speaker 10 North America. And so we

Speaker 10 went from the being a local installer in Virginia, then we started manufacturing. We manufactured our own pools for a season or two.

Speaker 10 Then we started manufacturing for other dealers.

Speaker 10 And now

Speaker 10 we are taking leveling up further to offer

Speaker 10 the franchise. And so we have franchisees.

Speaker 10 One in Utah, two soon.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 one in Texas, probably four or five soon.

Speaker 10 One in Arizona with a few more quickly on the way

Speaker 10 and then we have another handful on the East Coast so we probably have like 10 right now this is really our first year selling

Speaker 10 our our franchise model buy-in is low right now so it's only a thirty thousand dollar buy-in and they they they have to pay a percentage of their of their business

Speaker 10 back to us

Speaker 10 And really what they're getting from us is, you know, we're handling,

Speaker 10 they get all the systems that they don't have to learn, which is no pool guy for the most part is system minded, right? They just don't think that way. So you get the systems,

Speaker 10 they get the marketing machine,

Speaker 10 the lead generation, all that, you know, we

Speaker 10 do for them.

Speaker 10 And working on a more refined sales model that we can teach to them as well. That's been a little bit of a challenge, right? So doing that.

Speaker 10 But overall,

Speaker 10 it's pretty exciting. I find that it sells itself in a lot of ways.
The issue that we're having is scale because

Speaker 10 we bootstrapped financially the manufacturing of all this stuff, which

Speaker 10 puts a cash crunch

Speaker 10 all the time because manufacturing makes you a logistics company as well because you have to ship the crap all over the country at that point. And so it's a set of like headaches that come with that.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 you've got to be able to inventory,

Speaker 10 which is expensive to inventory pools because it's not like you're not like mini products. It's just like, and you have to have yards, you have to have distribution yards.

Speaker 10 around the country so that there's a a point where you could grab a pool near you in New York instead of having to ship from Virginia every single time as an example. Right.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 we're still green, but it's going. It's an actual company, you know, that will pay taxes on it this year and all those things, right?

Speaker 10 And but it's pretty exciting. And I think it's, it's, it's, you know, I thought about franchising about six or seven years ago, let it go.

Speaker 10 And then my business partner Jason got real excited about it after I got out of it and pursued it aggressively. And so that's where we are with it right now.

Speaker 10 And luckily, I've got a really strong relationship with Premier Pools, who is that other big, big franchise. I've spoken at their dealer conference a couple times now.

Speaker 10 So we have a very open source sharing that we're doing between us right now.

Speaker 10 Because, you know, they can benefit from our marketing know-how, and we can benefit from their franchise know-how.

Speaker 10 But I think this is probably a conversation that you and I will want to have more and more in the future, just learning from each other as we go through this.

Speaker 10 And to your point, maintaining the brand and,

Speaker 10 you know, just how to handle so much of that that comes with it, the logistics that come with it.

Speaker 8 Yeah. I,

Speaker 8 you know, it's been, this has been,

Speaker 8 I mean, I know you're the same way, but I probably read about a thousand articles, listened to podcasts. I've been to franchise trade show.
uh down in New York City.

Speaker 8 We have a franchise consultant that we work with who I enjoy. And you get a thousand different perspectives.
And basically,

Speaker 8 basically, what it all comes down to for me, that the rub is you have to maintain the quality of the product and you have to maintain the quality of the brand.

Speaker 8 And it is those two things at the cost of all other things. Because as soon as those two, either one of those things fall apart, either one, the franchise is hosed.
And,

Speaker 8 you know, many of the decisions we make come back to, we would rather grow slower.

Speaker 8 We would rather grow regionally and then super regionally and then nationally versus expanding out quickly so that we can keep that quality control.

Speaker 8 So that if someone goes to one of our locations in Buffalo and then has a trip, a business trip to Boston and there's a metabolic in Boston, they're getting the same experience because the moment they don't, the entire ecosystem falls apart.

Speaker 8 And,

Speaker 8 you know, that's been an interesting thing to think about because I've never

Speaker 8 had to solve that problem before. So it's been very interesting.

Speaker 10 It's exciting times, man. It's cool to see what's happened with us, you know, since

Speaker 10 we met and the journey we've been on. And we're so outrageously similar and we're both,

Speaker 10 I would say, health

Speaker 10 on a healthy level, obsessed with personal development and progress. Yeah.
You know what I mean? But we love our families and we're trying to do its best on both ends.

Speaker 10 And we have a little bit of a stallion in each one of us that just wants to run and run really hard. Yeah.
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 8 Yeah, it's hard to stable that sometimes. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they buck.
That's what they do.

Speaker 8 There is no doubt about that. But, you know, it's fun.

Speaker 8 You know, one of the things that I've really enjoyed about, and I don't,

Speaker 8 one of the things that I've enjoyed about this particular challenge has been

Speaker 8 in my previous life in the insurance industry, you were always beholden to someone. There was always a gatekeeper.
Even if you were at the top of the chain, your gatekeeper was,

Speaker 8 there was always someone else on the chain who was.

Speaker 8 who had the potential to throttle what you were doing at all times. And I've talked to you about this hundreds of times and how frustrated that made me.
And,

Speaker 8 you know, I mean, basically probably the downfall of my career in the insurance industry to a certain extent was my unwillingness to yield to that process.

Speaker 8 And just, you know, you make enough,

Speaker 8 you rattle enough cages and eventually they just kick you out.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 8 So

Speaker 8 they love you until they don't. Yes, exactly.
And that's, you know, and that's basically what happened was, did I want to be this rebel without a cause or move on?

Speaker 8 And that was the decision I had to make. And I'm glad that I made the one I did.
What's so interesting about this particular challenge about metabolic is that

Speaker 8 there's no one that can stop us except for us. As long as our product is good, there's no regulatory body

Speaker 8 because I guess technically they could take away our franchise registration.

Speaker 8 We could just open corporate locations and be a non-franchise if we wanted. You know what I mean?

Speaker 8 Like as long as the metabolic product is good and we are delivering results and we're building the communities that we know how to build and we're taking care of our people and all the things that make, that I believe make our business special,

Speaker 8 as long as we're doing that, we can grow as far and as fast and make this thing as valuable as we want to without anybody throttling us. And

Speaker 8 that feels very,

Speaker 8 it was like, it's like I had a sandbag on my back and I got to kind of like schlump it off, right? Is there was no longer this,

Speaker 8 this person isn't going to like what you're doing or saying or isn't going to agree with your methodology. So they're going to stop you from doing that.
You know, we want to try something, we try it.

Speaker 8 If it doesn't work, we toss it out the window and we move forward. And there's, that is a,

Speaker 8 I, I, I envied people who had that ability, you in particular for a long time, that you, you always seemed to be able to go as as far and as fast as you wanted because you were in a space that allowed you to do that.

Speaker 8 There was no one, you know, and again, from the outside, I know that's not always exactly the case, but it always, you know, red tape wasn't there. Yes.

Speaker 8 And I always felt like there was someone holding my arm behind my back. And when I got here, it was like all of a sudden I was unchained.
And it's like,

Speaker 10 what do I do now?

Speaker 8 Yeah, right.

Speaker 8 You know, so that's been really interesting. That's been an, you know, you bastard.
This is what you've you've been experiencing for the last 15 years.

Speaker 10 That's amazing, bro.

Speaker 10 It's great.

Speaker 8 So,

Speaker 8 so I think this is supposed to be a podcast

Speaker 8 that we're recording too, but

Speaker 8 I could just, I could just rap like this the whole time.

Speaker 10 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we can start now if you want, or we can do whatever you want to do.
You're the boss. You're the star of the show.
So you just tell me.

Speaker 8 I mean, I guess we probably have already started. I, you know, the reason that I,

Speaker 8 bring in,

Speaker 8 you know, maybe I'll talk to the to the people who are listening because there's probably certain parts of this that are worth sharing, but that we've talked about already.

Speaker 8 But the reason that I wanted to have you in particular on and why you'll be the first the first guest of this show.

Speaker 8 So your episode will be the very first one launched in the launch week, which is coming up in a few weeks.

Speaker 8 um from our recording of this but the people are listening to it it's today um the reason i wanted you to be the first one is is a bunch of reasons

Speaker 8 One, you have certainly been my longest tenured friend in the digital space,

Speaker 8 someone who I have admired for a very long time, not just in the work that you do, but in

Speaker 8 your ambition, the way you manage ambition with also being an incredibly high quality person, which is very tough to do.

Speaker 8 Your discipline,

Speaker 8 the way that you have gone for things.

Speaker 8 And I look at some of the decisions that I've made in my, in my own life and I haven't, you know, invested in myself at certain times and I've watched you do it and been envious of it in a good way, in an inspiring way, not in like a jealousy way.

Speaker 8 Oh, yeah. You know, it's pushed me harder.
And ultimately,

Speaker 8 and in kind of the crux of what I think this iteration of

Speaker 8 a podcast, of what I want this show to be is talking really around leadership and development and personal development. And just these are the topics that really get me up in the morning.

Speaker 8 It's why I write every morning at 5 a.m. is just,

Speaker 8 I don't think today

Speaker 8 we as people think enough about

Speaker 8 ourselves. We think about, hey, Marcus has this.
I want that. Why isn't my life like Marcus's? Right.
I think that's that's what social media has driven us to.

Speaker 8 It's why we're so divided as a country politically.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 I think you are someone who

Speaker 8 is very introspective and looks at, you know, the way you talk about dissecting one of your performances on stage as a keynote speaker.

Speaker 8 Maybe that's a good place to start. Like we've sat in, you know, I'm usually drinking.

Speaker 8 a beer and you're having a Coke or something, but we've sat in a bar at different events and I've listened to you break down different different performances that you've had.

Speaker 8 And the way that you think about them,

Speaker 8 I think

Speaker 8 it would be unique for a lot of people to think about, hey, I delivered this type of business performance, and now I'm going to tear it all the way down and think about ways that I can do it better.

Speaker 8 And maybe you could start there and just talk about

Speaker 8 how you're able to dissect something like that with humility and with personal honesty to grow. Because

Speaker 8 very few people, myself included at times, are able to do that. So I'm just interested in how you think about that.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 so many things that I feel like talking about right now, as we have this conversation,

Speaker 10 that are on my mind. One of them is this, Ryan, that I think

Speaker 10 one of the greatest challenges that individuals have and brands have, and most don't realize they have this,

Speaker 10 is that when they put themselves in a public situation to be seen, to be heard,

Speaker 10 they try to sound smart.

Speaker 10 Now, if you ask most people, are you trying to sound smart? They would say, no, no, I'm not trying that.

Speaker 10 It manifests itself subconsciously all the time with individuals. This is the same reason why you could look hypothetically at a thumbnail for a YouTube video and and say, I don't like that guy.

Speaker 10 What makes you say that? You haven't even clicked play yet, but yet there's something about that person you don't like.

Speaker 10 It's because they're trying

Speaker 10 to appear or to sound smart. Again, brands do this all the time.
When we let that go,

Speaker 10 the magic starts to happen. I'm really serious about this, right?

Speaker 10 Because we don't feel like we have the need to prove anything

Speaker 10 at all. So I've got a company.
I've got a few different ones, as you know.

Speaker 10 One of which is an agency. And we do, it's very heavy into consulting.
And so I have a huge amount of,

Speaker 10 you know, 20 to 40 somethings that are, you know, working for me.

Speaker 10 The biggest coaching issue that I have when we are meeting with each other and we're analyzing a call they had with a prospect or with a customer is I have to say over and over again, now why are you trying to prove yourself right there?

Speaker 10 If you release that need,

Speaker 10 you're going to have so many more abilities to create magic in the moment than you ever could. And so let me give an example of what I'm talking about.

Speaker 10 When you release the need to feel smart, it immediately puts you on the same plane as the person that you're speaking to. So it doesn't matter if you're

Speaker 10 speaking to the CEO of a powerful company, or it doesn't matter if you're speaking to the lowest level employee.

Speaker 10 when you are not trying to speak quote with that authority or with hey look at me i'm intelligent that's gone and now you're on the same plane you get immediate respect from that that person so this is how you can go in any situation and engender essentially authority because authority comes from releasing the need to prove yourself you've seen this yourself as a speaker as a speaker you can tell at times when somebody will get up there and they're trying to look cool they're trying to look intelligent they're trying to be impressive, whereas

Speaker 10 you also see the person that is completely comfortable with who they are in that moment.

Speaker 10 And you can't help but endear yourself to that person over the course of the 45 minutes or the hour, whatever that thing is.

Speaker 10 When I'm speaking,

Speaker 10 there's two things that are happening. I'm obsessing about how the audience is

Speaker 10 interacting with me in that moment. I'm noticing all these little things in that moment.

Speaker 10 It's almost like I'm looking from above down at myself and the audience, and I'm seeing the little things that are happening as I'm going through it the whole time.

Speaker 10 The people that are checking in, the people that are checking out, the people that are giving energy, the people that are taking energy. The jokes that land versus the ones that do not.

Speaker 10 And why did they landed in one moment, but they didn't land in another occasion? Like, why are these things? I'm looking at it the whole time. It's this beautiful science.

Speaker 10 I'm trying to understand the why, because I'm so freaking curious as to like, and obsessed about this thing that you and I call communication.

Speaker 10 I'm obsessed with why is that working in that moment, but I'm also obsessed with what am I doing right then, right?

Speaker 10 So I'm looking at the audience and I'm looking at myself and I'm watching what I am doing and analyzing if it is or is not working. Not in a way of

Speaker 10 concern because it's never like that. It's always just clearly the observer saying this is or is not working without emotion.

Speaker 10 Rarely ever is there any emotion in the observer in this context. And so when I'm done, I'm unpackaging all those things,

Speaker 10 playing them out, why I did and did not work, almost to a science, because there's always something there, right?

Speaker 10 And if you do that enough over time, you start to see what works. A great comedian would do the same thing.
right

Speaker 10 because people think that they just you know come up with this stuff no they're working it. Right.
It evolves. A joke evolves over time.
A talk evolves over time. Something lands just right.

Speaker 10 And you're like, I'm going to save that. I'm going to store that for later.
But I also want to know why did it land?

Speaker 10 Like, why did it resonate? Or why did it fail miserably in that moment? So these are the things that fascinate me. And I think about them.

Speaker 10 an obscene amount of time.

Speaker 8 Yeah. I think, you know, I think when you stop having to prove yourself,

Speaker 8 you start listening. And that's really, you know, what I heard you just say is you're, yeah, you're right.

Speaker 8 You're able to actually listen to what's happening instead of thinking, okay, here's a moment where I can inject why I should be here. Here's a moment why I can, you're actually,

Speaker 10 this is a big deal.

Speaker 10 This, what you're saying, think about how what you just said affects every facet of society. A lot of people know me for a sales and marketing guy.

Speaker 10 And one thing that you and I haven't talked much about is I'm speaking a ton now on communication, leadership communication and communication in the workplace.

Speaker 10 Just because I'm really passionate about this. Like I love helping speakers, I love helping presenters.
I love helping leaders.

Speaker 10 I love helping managers say it better, like express the thing better than they otherwise would.

Speaker 10 And the principles that we're talking about right now, this is completely aligned with it. As a parent, let's say your child comes to you and asks you a question.

Speaker 10 Now, the majority of parents in today's society

Speaker 10 they do two things well they they do one thing but it has two reasons the thing that they do is they answer the question quickly now why do parents i'm not saying everyone but the majority why do they quickly answer their child's question number one is because they're efficient i.e impatient okay with

Speaker 10 the process.

Speaker 10 But number two, this is the part that most don't recognize, but it's fundamentally true. I can assure you this, is they want to appear smart to their kids.
They want to be the hero.

Speaker 10 What is the reason why, when a team member comes to a manager and asks the question, why the majority of managers are so quick just to give the answer?

Speaker 10 The reason goes back to they think it's more efficient. which it's inherently not,

Speaker 10 and they want to feel smart, to feel validated, and to be seen as that manager same thing with a speaker my speaking style my manager style my parental style it's all all the exact same principle and it's essentially this what my obsession is

Speaker 10 I'm always asking myself is it possible for this audience in this moment so it could be a child when I say audience I'm just it could be anybody or talk to a friend whatever but is it possible for this person or this audience in this moment to

Speaker 10 what I am trying to tell them without me having to tell it to them first?

Speaker 10 And that is the great divide, Hanley.

Speaker 10 Because

Speaker 10 the thing about it is, if I tell you you're an idiot and you say, you're right, Marcus,

Speaker 10 I've been such an idiot. What have I accomplished? But if you say to me,

Speaker 10 You know what? I realize something and I say, what? And you say, I've been a total idiot. And I say, well, why do you say that? And then you start to name a list of all the reasons

Speaker 10 how you screwed up, how you messed up that thing. Now you own those.

Speaker 10 But if I tell you every reason why you screwed up, we have achieved no growth in that moment.

Speaker 10 See, the reason why managers and leaders push back on this is because they think that if they see the world in this way and they really work through the thing with that individual in that moment, that it's going to take so much longer and they don't quote have the time.

Speaker 10 But what that does,

Speaker 10 it only teaches that person, that team member, to come to you when they have a problem and not ever work it out themselves.

Speaker 10 When we release the need to feel smart, to be seen as this magical authority figure, this bastion of knowledge, and we...

Speaker 10 Essentially approach everyone that comes to us with, hey, let's go on this journey together and figure it out.

Speaker 10 Not you figure it out, but let's, you and me, let's go on this journey. That's what it's going to be and figure it out.

Speaker 10 This is how you develop world-class leaders underneath you. This is how people eventually replace you and you can go and sit on the dang beach.

Speaker 10 And too many leaders, and too many managers, too many organizations, and too many parents or relatives never quite understand this beautiful principle.

Speaker 8 God, I could talk about this all day. So

Speaker 8 what I find so incredibly interesting about this topic is,

Speaker 8 I, I don't know that I know the reason or know or have a say that I am 100%

Speaker 8 sure of the reason or even maybe 50% sure. But what I do know is most of the people that I interact with who hold any type of managerial position have this underlying insecurity in their position,

Speaker 8 in themselves, and it manifests as this control that you're talking about. Yes.
And, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 8 Like, I literally just had this conversation. What you're describing, I just had this conversation with one of my staff members a couple minutes ago.

Speaker 8 And he asked me a question about how he should do something. And I said, I don't care how you do it.
I want to see how you do it. Like, what do you think the best version of this is?

Speaker 8 Here's the problem I need to solve. I have this thing.
I need this thing here and this thing here, but I have no idea. This is your area.
I have no idea how we plug these things in.

Speaker 8 So I need you to come back to me with your best guess at what this should look like. And he looked at me and it was like he had never heard that before.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 8 He had never heard someone say to him.

Speaker 8 I looked at him. I don't know what the answer is.

Speaker 8 I don't know. I need you to go figure out the answer.
And frankly, I'm expecting you to come back to me with your best guess and then we'll talk about it.

Speaker 10 And this looks like that's called liberation right there. Yeah, right.
Yes, right? That's the moment he knows, my gosh,

Speaker 10 I'm going to grow in this company. They believe in me enough to let me screw up, to let me fall forward, and to let me figure this out.

Speaker 10 This is how you get raving fans for employees. You know, Hanley, I'm so sick and tired of hearing about all these ways that you can build culture,

Speaker 10 most of which don't include better communication in the workplace. Oh, it's ping-pong tables, it's freaking ping-pong in its chairs,

Speaker 10 in its

Speaker 10 escape rooms. Like, give me a break, people.

Speaker 10 You might go have fun in that escape room with your team for 45 minutes, but you're not going to learn teamwork

Speaker 10 until you get foundational

Speaker 10 elements of communication. Every marriage that ends, why, usually starts with communication.
Every bad relationship starts generally communication. Why do leadership teams fail? Communication.

Speaker 10 Always comes back to this thing over and over again, Hanley.

Speaker 8 So let me ask you this.

Speaker 8 I'm a manager. I'm new to managing a team.
And I feel the insecurity. I'm listening to this and I'm going,

Speaker 8 I believe what Marcus is saying. I believe it.

Speaker 8 I can see what he's saying. I've been on the other side of it.

Speaker 8 I've had people, you know, kind of treat me with that controlling, they're just going to hammer me with the answer, you know, kind of method.

Speaker 8 I don't want to be that, but they feel that insecurity inside them that says, gosh, if I, if my, if my team doesn't get this right, you know, if Johnny comes back to me with, with the wrong answer, and now our team's going to look terrible and I'm going to get yelled at.

Speaker 8 And I you know how do you how do you start to overcome that what are some things that someone could do to take baby steps into this that or maybe even baby steps in the right answer what what are a step or two or something someone can try could try if they feel like they are that controlling I'm just gonna give you the answer kind of manager but they want to change

Speaker 10 one of the principles

Speaker 10 that I teach a lot is called vanguarding is what I named it now vanguard originally comes from the head of the Roman army that would go in and fight the battle first.

Speaker 10 And they formed a V, and that's how they would go in. So, they were the first to go in and solve the problem.
In other words, the first to go in and attack the issue.

Speaker 10 So, when you vanguard today,

Speaker 10 you understand that the best way in life to resolve a concern is to address it before it becomes a concern.

Speaker 10 And so, you must always go about any

Speaker 10 action or any communication that you have saying,

Speaker 10 how could this go wrong? How can I therefore vanguard that from happening?

Speaker 10 So for example, let's say you're a manager and your whole time managing, you've been more of the authoritarian, like this is what you all need to do type, right?

Speaker 10 And you recognize, well, that's not leading to any growth on my team. And that's why no leaders ever come out of my team and go on to great things in this organization.

Speaker 10 And so you say to yourself, okay, I need to change that. How do I change that? Well, the first thing that you do is you tell your team your realization.

Speaker 10 Because if you just all of a sudden make a switch, they're going to be like, what the heck's going on? Right?

Speaker 10 And so you tell your team, here's what I realize about my shortcomings.

Speaker 10 You know,

Speaker 10 the book Radical Candor does a really good job. with a lot of things, but one of the things it talks about is how we should praise in public and criticize in private to our team.

Speaker 10 But as a leader, we welcome criticism in public.

Speaker 10 And so much of what we do, when we welcome criticism from our team in public, that is a vanguard for later. Because for later, when you do want to have a moment of truth, of candor with your team,

Speaker 10 and you have to speak frankly to them, They know that you are the type that is willing to receive it. Therefore, they are much more inclined to take it themselves.

Speaker 10 I think also there's an element of you have to go in and say,

Speaker 10 so we have a choice as a team or as a company.

Speaker 10 We can do things, quote, the easy way.

Speaker 10 I can just give you the answers, and you can just give your clients the answers, and everybody can just give everybody the answers. We could go on all day just listening to each other.

Speaker 10 Or

Speaker 10 we can go on a journey and we can actually

Speaker 10 help each other figure out really what is the best solution without always giving the answer.

Speaker 10 Now, one's going to take a little bit more time at first, but long-term, which one do you think is going to be beneficial? Team is going to every time say,

Speaker 10 well, I think the latter. Why is it going to be more beneficial? And they're going to say, because that will

Speaker 10 really enable me and force me even to grow.

Speaker 10 And you say as the manager, is that what you want? And they're going to say yes. And do I have your permission to do that? They're going to say yes.
It's no different, Ryan, than, you know,

Speaker 10 sometimes people say to me, because, you know, I see the world in the form of a question.

Speaker 10 And when I teach management, when I teach leadership, everything is based on how well you ask the question in the moment, right?

Speaker 10 And so

Speaker 10 when it comes,

Speaker 10 when...

Speaker 10 When it comes to this, oftentimes people say, well,

Speaker 10 isn't it going to feel like an interrogation if I ask ask people lots of questions which is why once again you vanguard and so if you come to me ryan and you say you know marcus i've i've got uh this issue this this and that

Speaker 10 instead of me maybe just jumping into a million questions i'll say something like this okay

Speaker 10 i'm really glad you came to me with this

Speaker 10 now i have a strong feeling that we can figure this out together But in order to do that, I'm going to have to ask you a bunch of questions, and I'm going to need your fullest, most honest, and most self-aware responses.

Speaker 10 Are you willing to go on that journey with me right now?

Speaker 8 Person's. Do you think the social contract is that important? You've done that twice now where you've done that permission thing.
I mean, I'm assuming a critical piece of it.

Speaker 10 It is fundamental. It is because otherwise they haven't given you the reins.
They haven't said you are. in charge and I am giving myself to this thing right now.

Speaker 10 Do you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 So this this is, this is absolutely, absolutely critical. Absolutely critical.

Speaker 10 And when you do this, though, when it comes to management, here's the second part to it, and leadership and any communication.

Speaker 10 I don't want anybody to get caught up on just management right now because this is across the entire board. Is you have to be willing to release where you think the answer needs to be.

Speaker 10 And you see,

Speaker 10 Once again, you might think you're good at asking questions. You might say, yeah, Marcus, I've been working on this question thing and I get in there every time.

Speaker 10 So is there where you thought they were supposed to go when you started the conversation? Or is there oftentimes where you had no idea this was going to go?

Speaker 10 I'm going to give you an example of something that happened to me last week, Ryan. And

Speaker 10 this was a powerful conversation. It might sound a little bit odd to you at first, but I think you're going to appreciate it.
once we get there, especially you as a leader. So because I talk about

Speaker 10 communication so much, what happens is

Speaker 10 people,

Speaker 10 when they realize that you care about their discoveries, they will open up to you and they'll tell you things they wouldn't tell anybody else.

Speaker 10 And it happens a lot to me. And I don't say that in

Speaker 10 a bragging light. I say that in just a self-aware statement of...
Why are people coming to me all the time and saying very intimate things? So one happened last week after I was teaching.

Speaker 10 I had a man came up to me after a conference

Speaker 10 and he had his wife there because she's a co-business owner with him.

Speaker 10 And he says to me, when I'm packing up my things, he says, Marcus, can I ask you a personal question? I say, sure.

Speaker 10 I can tell he's very

Speaker 10 intense, serious moment is happening for him. Something's really happening in his head right now.

Speaker 10 I said, what can I help you with?

Speaker 10 He says, I'm really not sure how to say this, but

Speaker 10 my wife and I have been remarried for quite a few years. We were separated.

Speaker 10 We got back together.

Speaker 10 But I have a major problem.

Speaker 10 She bites her nails all the time.

Speaker 10 And it bothers me so much.

Speaker 10 And I don't want it to bother me. But it's getting under my skin so much that I really don't know what to do.

Speaker 10 All right, so let's take a timeout. And this is a completely odd question.
Now, he was saying this with sadness on his face and seriousness, right?

Speaker 10 So you might be listening to this right now and thinking, this sounds goofy. This is a real dilemma for this person in his marriage, right?

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 my question for you is,

Speaker 10 What would you have said?

Speaker 10 If you're listening to this, what would you have said

Speaker 10 now I'm not gonna put you on the spot Hanley unless you feel like you have something I mean now I'm gonna and I'm gonna preface it with this you don't have much time because you gotta leave yeah okay but you want to help this gentleman and he needs help he wants help and it's riding on you right now to help this person

Speaker 8 let me I'm I want I'm gonna give you my answer and then I want you to critique it based on what you said and the reaction reaction that you got. Because I

Speaker 8 knowing that I don't think that I can come from a position of power with this answer, like I don't feel like I have a good, good handle on it. What I would have said was,

Speaker 8 you're never going to be okay with it,

Speaker 8 but you need to talk to her about the fact that it bothers you this much. Like for the thing that he said that what I would have keyed in on was, I don't want this to bother me.

Speaker 8 And I don't know from my own experience being married for as long as I have been, I would say you're never,

Speaker 8 you're not going to just all of a sudden be okay with it.

Speaker 8 But what you can do is communicate to her that it does bother you and find ways that maybe she can do it in places where you don't have to watch or something. I don't know.

Speaker 8 That's probably something around what I would have said.

Speaker 10 Okay, right, right. And I think there's probably a lot of people that would have said something around that.
Now,

Speaker 10 when you analyze what you just did,

Speaker 10 was that what you felt like he should do or was that what he felt like he should do?

Speaker 8 That was me taking my experience and putting it on his situation.

Speaker 10 That's correct. That's correct, right?

Speaker 10 And so if he actually does this, if he takes what

Speaker 10 you said,

Speaker 10 is he going to have a moment where he's going to say, you know what? I have the answer. Or is he going to say at the end of this? You know what? You're right.
That's what I to do?

Speaker 10 Because the way that you presented that to him, he's going to say, Yeah, you're right, that's probably what I should do.

Speaker 10 He's helpless, and he's probably going to do whatever the heck you tell him to do right now.

Speaker 10 You with me so far? Yes. Okay.

Speaker 10 When you shift the way that you think

Speaker 10 and you release the need

Speaker 10 to give

Speaker 10 an answer and show authority,

Speaker 10 You can produce magic. I asked two questions.

Speaker 10 First question,

Speaker 10 does she know how you feel?

Speaker 10 He said yes.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 10 Second question. Now here's the crux.
This is, as you would say, Henley, the rub.

Speaker 10 Next question was this.

Speaker 10 Has there ever been a time when she did not chew her nails?

Speaker 10 And then he said,

Speaker 10 She She did not chew them when we got back together for two years.

Speaker 10 And I said,

Speaker 10 Ah,

Speaker 10 now it's clear.

Speaker 10 And then I said,

Speaker 10 what were you doing differently during those two years? There it is.

Speaker 10 And here's what's happened next. He said, I was different.

Speaker 10 Now he has made the discovery, which gives me a green light. And once I saw the green light, I said, my promise to you, sir, is this.

Speaker 10 If you go back to treating her exactly like you treated her

Speaker 10 when you got back together, because you were trying to win her love again,

Speaker 10 I promise you within the next six months, she will stop. chewing her nails.
And Ryan, I'm not kidding you when I say this. He was fully sobbing.

Speaker 10 Grown man, fully sobbing, looks at me, he nods, and he walks away.

Speaker 10 That's the difference.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 10 And that's, that's the type of transformational conversations and communication

Speaker 10 that you and I can have as leaders, as friends, as family. as speakers, if we choose to make this a major part of our life and how we view the way we communicate.

Speaker 10 Now, you might be listening to this and you're saying, well, how did I get there?

Speaker 10 You have to start with a few limits tests, right? And one that you start with is this.

Speaker 10 How often,

Speaker 10 when you have conversations with others, do they say something like,

Speaker 10 wait a second. I've got it.
I know exactly what I need to do.

Speaker 10 Now you can paraphrase that however you want, but how often does that occur with your family, with your child, with your team member, with your friends?

Speaker 10 Or on the other side of that, how often do they end up saying, You're right, that's what I need to do?

Speaker 10 Hmm.

Speaker 8 I got some work to do, bro.

Speaker 10 Oh, we all do. Yeah.
We all do. But when you see the world in the form of a question, everything changes, Hanley.

Speaker 10 And this is one of my messages

Speaker 10 to people.

Speaker 10 And what's beautiful is a lot of people know me as a sales and marketing guy.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 I was a pool guy for really 10 years.

Speaker 10 I was a sales and marketing guy for

Speaker 10 the next 10 years.

Speaker 10 But I think I'll spend the next 40 years

Speaker 10 on

Speaker 10 changing lives with better communication in the home and in the office.

Speaker 10 That is my goal. And that's what I'm going to do.

Speaker 10 And I say that because when I talk about this,

Speaker 10 The feelings in the room and the things people say are befuddling.

Speaker 10 You can't even put words on them, you know.

Speaker 10 And it's cool seeing people save their business through the ask-you-answer, right? Right? For those that don't know, that's my book.

Speaker 10 That's cool. But when somebody says to me,

Speaker 10 My entire company culture and relationships with my friends and my wife has changed because

Speaker 10 of that thing that you said,

Speaker 10 then now now we got something special.

Speaker 8 This may have been

Speaker 8 meaningless in terms of your leaving it out, but

Speaker 8 spending the next 40 years, you said you're going to spend the next 40 years of your life working on how people communicate in their family and in their office.

Speaker 8 Was it intentional to leave out how we communicate in our community,

Speaker 8 with the people who aren't close to us?

Speaker 8 Oh, good point.

Speaker 10 Across the board. Just this idea

Speaker 10 of

Speaker 10 communication, trust,

Speaker 10 leadership.

Speaker 10 You know, I see what's happening in the world. It bothers me deeply.

Speaker 10 Although I have political views, I'm apolitical in terms of the way that I elect to approach the world because I'm a big believer in

Speaker 10 things give us and take from us energy.

Speaker 10 They can rob us of our happiness or

Speaker 10 they can give us tremendous joy or energy, right?

Speaker 10 And, you know, I watch

Speaker 10 division

Speaker 10 and I watch what's happening. you know, with people today, and I don't like it.

Speaker 10 It bothers me a lot, right? And I think this is how I can help. This is how I can make a difference.
You know, I don't know about you. I came

Speaker 10 ultimately, I'm not very good on social media.

Speaker 10 And I've always wondered why that was.

Speaker 10 And I finally figured it out.

Speaker 10 And I don't mean this in a way that would at all

Speaker 10 be a knock on somebody else. Because my situation is different than somebody else's.
So what I'm about to say doesn't necessarily apply to you if you're listening to this. But I realized

Speaker 10 the reason why I am not good on social media is because I have 0.0 fear of missing out.

Speaker 10 I don't have FOMO whatsoever at this point in my life.

Speaker 10 I don't look at people at a beach or at a conference or with a group of friends and think, I'd like to be there.

Speaker 10 I just don't feel that right

Speaker 10 i'm not sure when that happened i don't think i always had that i absolutely feel that today it's gone i don't know where it went it's gone 0.0 fomo and so i don't have i don't feel an urge to share i do it because i know sometimes people want to know and sometimes if i do share it's based on something that brings me joy so i'm trying to share something that might show joy right but that's really it That's really it.

Speaker 10 And this is a struggle. And I think that if we as a society can,

Speaker 10 because you started with this today, you mentioned this a little bit. If we can release not only the need to feel smart,

Speaker 10 but we can release the need to feel what others feel.

Speaker 10 And we can...

Speaker 10 learn to be truly satisfied, but also at the same time curious about our own lives, our own existence i don't mean this in some like mystic way i just really mean it for what it is then we're going to find so much more fulfillment right

Speaker 10 i don't say success because success is defined on the outside right like somebody asked you if you're successful well i mean people generally define what they think is successful only you can say if you're fulfilled People look at you handle all day long and say, this guy, man, wow, he's so successful.

Speaker 10 Yeah, but that doesn't really mean anything. Is he fulfilled with his life? Right? Because that's the big question.

Speaker 10 You could be on the street right now, but you could be outrageously fulfilled.

Speaker 10 Now, you and I are wired in a way that certain things will fulfill us. That's why we're on this mission.
You have yours. I have mine.
This is why we're so very, very aligned.

Speaker 10 But these are the things that I think about, man. This is the stuff that's on my mind.

Speaker 8 You know, it's interesting you said that thing about FOMO.

Speaker 8 We'd started our conversation today, and I'm not really sure where I'll pick up in this conversation with what we actually put publicly, but

Speaker 8 our conversation started with you asking a couple of questions about my current position. And I shared some of that

Speaker 8 in my much more meandering style than yours.

Speaker 8 But,

Speaker 8 you know, it's funny you bring up that thing about FOMO. And I

Speaker 8 have felt that way lately because I've had it at different times, especially, especially times when when my tank was empty.

Speaker 8 I have found that in moments of feeling the least fulfilled with my own life, my FOMO or

Speaker 8 and all the things that kind of circle around that term goes way, way up. And I think that intrinsically makes sense.

Speaker 8 And as I've become more fulfilled with my life, for me, that was traveling less,

Speaker 8 being part of this particular company, Metabolic, and some of the things we talked about with kind of

Speaker 8 whatever.

Speaker 8 And in return,

Speaker 10 I've also,

Speaker 8 you said we each have our own journey. And what I found interesting about this,

Speaker 8 and this has a business application, I promise as well, but for those listening who care particularly about that,

Speaker 8 I found that I care.

Speaker 8 I do not care at all what people think of the work that I'm doing, yet at the same exact time, I'm watching and listening to how everyone reacts to the work that I'm doing, if that makes sense.

Speaker 8 Because I want them to find value. So it's not, I'm not just, this isn't, um, it isn't an ego thing where I'm like, I don't give a, I don't give a shit what you think about my work.

Speaker 8 I'm gonna do what I want. That

Speaker 8 that is one way that some people approach their work. That is not what I mean.
What I mean is

Speaker 8 I've started to, I've been able to create because it's what I have to give.

Speaker 8 And I'm listening for what what people find value in and trying to give them more of that when it's there, but I'm not forcing it to try to be something that I'm not.

Speaker 10 And that's a good place to be, right? Because this world in many ways forces you to, you know, it forces you to do just that oftentimes, you know, especially when it comes to like,

Speaker 10 you know, I think you might remember this. Everybody kind of got on Seth Godin, like, I don't know, almost 10 years ago when he turned off comments.
Like, that was a bad thing.

Speaker 10 He had this outrageously popular blog. He turned off comments before anybody else.
And he said, because I don't want the community to dictate what I write about

Speaker 10 because I want it to be inherently from here and not for. comments, not for clicks, not for social.
And at the time, most people just couldn't, they could not even comprehend that.

Speaker 10 And what has happened today?

Speaker 10 Most blogs have now turned off comments. Yeah.
Right. Right.
I mean, not most, but many, many have

Speaker 10 for that reason. I know I did, right?

Speaker 10 Because I didn't find that it, it brought me to a place of deep satisfaction. Yeah.

Speaker 8 I think, and, and, and I think what what I found is

Speaker 8 what it has helped me do is be okay, okay, more okay with dissenting opinions in my work.

Speaker 8 It's nice with my wife and my kids, with people in the social space, with people I interact with on a day-to-day basis. People have all different kinds of opinions,

Speaker 8 political opinions, social opinions.

Speaker 10 They just operate differently.

Speaker 8 And I think when you come from a place of caring so much about what other people think of you

Speaker 8 and your work,

Speaker 8 if it's at all negative,

Speaker 8 you immediately start to position yourself against them. It's that person versus me when you stop,

Speaker 8 like I said, it's not that you're not listening, but it doesn't impact who you are. You're not letting it change what comes from here.
Then, you know, and again,

Speaker 8 I do follow some of the political stuff more from

Speaker 8 listening because I'm interested in how people communicate and what's going on.

Speaker 8 You know, today there's so much,

Speaker 8 you can't disagree about one thing or we're not the same. You and I disagree about a lot of things,

Speaker 8 but we also agree about a lot of things. And that's completely okay.

Speaker 8 And I think that's the nuance of communication that we've lost, bringing it all the way back to the business standpoint.

Speaker 8 Someone in your organization can disagree with how, you know, I'm the leader. This is the way it's got to be because this is my company.
I've ascended to this position. And then they become unwilling.

Speaker 8 If you disagree with one thing that I do as a leader, you're not on my team.

Speaker 10 You're not playing by our rules. This is how we, where all I really need you to do is agree with one thing that I do.

Speaker 8 And then we're good. Like, like, just, let's just align on one issue.
And, and I guess that's, that's what I don't understand about where we are as a society is,

Speaker 8 um,

Speaker 8 you know, and again, it's.

Speaker 10 Best talk I've ever heard on this, Brene Brown.

Speaker 10 Unbelievable talk.

Speaker 10 And she said, the problem is,

Speaker 10 and this is like almost like encapsulates everything you just said, the problem is with society is almost everyone has bought into this idea of you're there with me or you're against me.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 the reality is you're with me and you're against me. And that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 8 I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 10 And that's where we got to get back to.

Speaker 8 My friend, it is always an amazing, just,

Speaker 8 it fills my love bucket to spend time with you. Whenever we get to chat, whether it's in a public forum like this or

Speaker 8 privately, and certainly when we're in person, I wish you nothing but the best.

Speaker 8 I will make sure that we have everything linked up and people can find you, but just where's the best place if someone's just listening that they can connect with you?

Speaker 10 Well, if you're listening to this and you have a question, or if you want to say, hey, Marcus, come teach a workshop to my team on this, this, or that you can find me at marcus at marcussheridan.com that's my direct email marcus at marcussheridan s-h-e-r-i-d-a-n dot com

Speaker 10 you can find me on the twitter at the sales lion l-i-o-n

Speaker 10 but that's the best way to find me and make sure you get the book too they ask you answer it just came out revised format 30 000 new words if you have a business If you're in sales marketing or leadership, you will absolutely love that book.

Speaker 10 It has taken off like wildfire.

Speaker 8 It's selling more today than it did three years ago it's just amazing it's the revolutionary new business success concept and circling your question that is exactly right brother all right my man hey be good thank you so much i'll catch you see you

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