RE-RELEASE - Sheryl Crow

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I love that we're able to introduce people to episodes we've done before.

And one of our favorites,

if you're going to hear in a second, is Cheryl Crowe, right, David?

Oh, yeah.

Cheryl, who's kind of a friend of the show.

I knew her a little bit from being a huge fan.

And then we had the same friend circle for a little bit.

So I saw her.

And she's also good friends with Courtney Cox and those girls.

Super fun,

super talented.

And I think she's on tour now with Willie.

I just saw her on some flyer.

This just sounds very cool.

Something I would definitely go to.

But I've seen her play at Irvine.

We dig a little bit with her because we like to have musicians on.

Sometimes I love music and Dana loves music and you can play music.

And so it's more fun probably for you to dig into someone who knows what they're talking about.

And she called us in from.

Nashville.

Yeah.

So that was kind of cool.

And there are some fun parts when you talk to a musician and a songwriter and a singer who can really do that and who she thinks are the best people in history to have done that, you know?

And so that's always fun to hear their take.

And we interviewed her on Zoom and she was like in a garage with maybe a hundred guitar guitars.

I know.

Do you remember that?

Remember that?

Yeah, yeah.

It was stunning looking.

So anyway, enjoy this.

Lovely lady, Cheryl Crowe.

It's been 3,000 years since I've seen either one of you.

Hi, Cheryl.

Weren't you at the 40th?

You were at the 40th, weren't you?

Yes, I was.

I was.

So that's when we last saw each other.

When was that?

2016, I think.

That was 40 years of the SMO.

I know.

It feels like, yeah.

Cheryl.

Cheryl Crowe is with us.

I just like to say this.

32 Grammy nominations, nine wins, and 50 million albums there.

Just to re-remind everyone, what the fuck is going on right now?

What?

Sure.

Let me put on my glasses so I can see you.

Okay, yes.

You both are looking very well.

I'm sorry that your listeners can't see us visiting with each other through our camera screens.

I know.

Even though this is all audio, I spent about 45 minutes on my chair and lighting and stuff.

I don't know why.

Oh,

I spackled my face.

You got your guitars back there.

The hair's looking great.

Oh, Dana.

Dana looks like he's in solitary confinement.

do that.

This room is empty of void, but my son had all my son's models and little army men are in a plastic container and the laptop's on top of it.

So it's very nostalgic when I do this.

He's 28 now, but now

Dana, what is that room that you're in that has no art on the walls?

Nothing.

Are you is it everything must go?

I have

sleep paralysis, so I have to sleep in an empty house because they'll come for me.

I have it.

Okay, I have sleep paralysis.

How often?

I have not had it in a while, but now for a long time, I would have it

almost every night and I would have it periodically through the night.

And what's weirder, and I don't know if you have this.

I'm sure this is so interesting to your listeners.

Do you ever have sleep paralysis on an airplane?

No, I can't sleep on an airplane because I'm too terrified no matter what.

Even

I just watch the computer and check the pilots.

But so you go to sleep.

I sleep like a damn baby on an airplane.

Well, if you had any other, sleep paralysis is basically

you feel like something's attacking you invisibly in the night, or there's a weight on your chest.

It's like a waking nightmare kind of.

You can't wake yourself up and yet you think that you're awake.

Like you see people in the room moving and you're trying desperately to get them to wake you up because you're.

you're paralyzed.

Yes, you can't move.

And the thing that got me, I was at the first time, San Yucidro Ranch in Montecito, whatever, you know, lifestyle is rich and famous.

Yeah.

And just woke up or I was had that pressure on my chest, like something was crawling on top of me.

And then I kind of went, okay, that was a dream.

Used the restroom, went back to bed, felt I was as awake as I am right now.

And then came back again.

Yeah.

But now I talk to it.

It's never harmed me.

I don't know if it's a spirit thing or something.

Dana, then what did you do?

I beat the shit out of it.

No, you left, didn't you?

Well, my wife was sound asleep, so I turned to her and said, we have to go now.

It's three in the morning.

We have to leave immediately.

And she's a keeper.

She's a keeper because she didn't even blink.

She's like, okay.

Okay, honey.

Yeah.

It's okay, honey.

See, I thought it was just mostly in women.

The women in my family have it.

My mom has managed through the years to figure out how to get my dad to wake her up, and she does it by singing.

Oh, interesting.

Well, you're in Nashville.

Isn't that full of ghosts out there?

That's kind of,

isn't it full of ghosts, like old country singers and stuff?

I mean, walking around.

Civil War, lots of Civil War,

ghosts in Franklin.

Oh, it's never a dull moment down here.

And we live in the rainforest, except for when I...

Cheryl was in Guitar Center.

It does look like Guitar Center in here.

She has 30 guitars behind her.

Cheryl, I've been to Smashville, and next time I go there, I'm going to make you come down to the Ryman and watch me bomb.

I'm so mad that you've been here and not called me i take it very personally you know the last time i saw you but you lived um somewhere in the canyon yeah if you had some beautiful house

like a couple of houses right next to runying canyon okay and um

i won't give you the address because somebody else that's kind of high profile lives there now however that being said I used to have wild parties at my house.

And I don't know if you remember this.

And this, I've only been thinking about it lately because

of Salmon Rushdie being in the news.

Not to mention we just played Chautauqua, but so I'm sure you know what happened to Salmon Rushdie.

So Minnie Driver and I decided, this is years ago.

I'm trying to think of what year it would have been.

Salmon's usually my plus one at parties.

He is.

He's, he is, it's, he is fascinating.

Anyway, we said, let's have a New Year's Eve party together.

And you can invite 40 people and I'll invite 40 people.

And that was going to be it.

And by about 11 at night, there must have been 800 people in my house.

And one of them was Salmon Rushdie.

And it was right after his book had come out and there was a bounty on his head.

Oh my God.

And I'm just like, really?

Is somebody killed here tonight?

What's happening?

Oh, Miss Hollywood.

Your house was like a bunch.

Was it a bunch of little houses or am I crazy?

Yeah,

there was a big old Spanish house and then across the driveway, which is the house I bought.

And then right across the driveway on the same property were two other houses that were really old.

One was built in the 19,

early 1900s.

And the other one was built in 1887.

And the guy who lived in those, who had those two properties and the 11 acres

wound up selling it to me for, he just needed to get out and kept lowering the price and lowering the price.

And so I wound up with all three houses.

And it was just

magical.

But once I adopted my boys, I just didn't want to live in LA anymore.

Dana, I understand.

Dana, I knew Cheryl Suzanne Crowe a little bit.

You know, everybody.

His Rolodex is metaphorical Rolodex.

Dana, we used to run around in the same house.

Oh, we did.

Courtney and

Jason.

Oh, what was that peer group?

Was it kind of like the little club?

Courtney, Courtney, which Courtney?

Courtney Cox.

Courtney Cox.

And Kid Rock was around.

I was around with Kid Rock because of, it was during the Joe Dirt times when I saw Cheryl the most.

And

we call him Bobby, which I don't know, it's kind of gross, but we're always like Bobby, Bob.

But Kid Rock is a buffoon.

It's hilarious.

And

we would all go out and then I would run into Cheryl

with all those other people.

And she was always nice and she was always friendly and obviously being a superstar, but.

Had a lot of fun.

She has a great voice and she has a great singing voice, but she has a great voice, too.

I've heard it.

And it was fun.

I just watched your whole documentary.

And so it's just weird to have you pop on right after because I finished it this morning.

Oh, you did?

Oh, yeah.

It's great.

It's kind of a tear jerker for some reason.

There's I have it on in the background right now.

I just glance at it.

It's never a dull moment.

It's brilliant.

I mean,

I put it up there with Top Gun.

I put it up there with Top Gun Maverick.

By the way, can we sing Top Gun's praises for 10 seconds?

Did you see it?

I did like Top Gun.

I don't know if I, what, what, what?

Cheryl.

It's shockingly good.

Like, my wife both flip for it.

It's like, oh, the new one, yes.

It was so good.

Here's how I'm going to connect it and see if you guys connect to this.

I connect it to Roman Holiday with Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn.

Interesting.

The reason is

it's done a lot, but they did it better than anyone else.

You invest in the characters, invest in the story, and then there's seven minutes of Hans Zimmerman's soundtrack soundtrack with kind of people hugging each other and giving thumbs up.

And that's the part that gets you.

Anyway.

Wow.

Okay.

I'm going to go back and watch it.

I dragged my boys to see it because they had no, you know, no attachment to Top Gun.

And I was, yeah, I was kind of skeptical, but I'd heard how great it was.

And we loved it.

I mean, it was such a good old-fashioned.

plot-driven movie.

Anyway.

How old are the kids?

My kids are 15 and 12.

Oh, right in the pocket.

Oh, okay.

That's perfect.

Yeah.

Yeah, and they seriously don't think I'm cool at all.

It would be weird if they did.

That'd be strange.

Oh, my God.

Cheryl Curls cooking me a pancake.

Yeah.

Tell them to watch the documentary.

They'll say how cool you are.

Do you think I should let them watch it?

I don't know.

I don't look at it from their eyes, but

it shows how tough you are, how hard you bust your ass, how good you are.

First of all, everyone that loves is crazy about you, all these huge, huge stars that rally around you, and you're singing with every single one of them.

I knew you more like a skim job because when you watch the, I used, you know, when I'd see you out, but we, you know, I don't get into all that stuff.

And it's so, uh, I, I had so many more levels to your whole life and career.

I had no idea about.

No idea.

Ah, well, you know, I think most people, and I'm sure you guys too, you guys have stories that nobody knows anything about.

Like, I'm so sorry.

You're not a fully realized person that's not, you know, that's not covered in the tabloids and all that stuff.

I find that everybody has a story.

Everyone.

Yes.

And way more than you think.

I wouldn't release mine because no one would believe it.

They would just laugh me out of the room.

I don't know.

I'd like to know the story of Dana Carvey.

Yeah.

When I come to Nashville and we go around all the main street and we go in the bars, we see all the incredible bands, I'll tell you.

everything you want to know.

So my new best friend is Cheryl Croy.

I just want to make that announcement.

Yeah, make it clear.

So you're the thing I got from the documentary, which I recommend to everybody because such a human story is how hard you worked and how driven you were.

And then how you, like most people, well, there's certain celebrities I know that are much easier with fame, but how you had a love-hate with that.

And talk about that part of

your drive and yet, why do I want this and stuff like that?

Yeah, I mean, I still think fame is a weird, it's a mind, it's a real mind trip.

And, and I didn't really adjust to it very well.

It for me, instead of it being fun and something I could kind of navigate and manipulate and

use to sort of build my brand, which was not the,

you know, people didn't talk about brand back then.

I know.

Instead, for me, it was pressure, you know, it was pressure and it was a source of my.

I mean, I've always looked at my life as, okay, how am I going to fuck this up?

Or, you know, that's just how I've always, I've always been sort of uber critical of myself.

I don't know why, but,

and so fame was just one more avenue for me to, to, to,

fall short or embarrass myself.

Or, you know, it becomes this thing like suddenly you're invited to the party and you're like with all the cool kids.

And then you get this weird.

panic that when is this going to stop and oh i wasn't at that event or i should have been at that or i wasn't included it's just like it's a another level of

panic for it was for me at least i didn't re-remind it all the time you were saying it in the documentary and you're saying it now i would like in tiny ways you get re-reminded like you go to the golden globes and you're sitting eight rows back where you were the year before and you're like is it is that that part is kind of funny or there's so many little things you keep getting checked like where you are in the food chain and vanity fair party they invite you at 9 or 1 a.m You're like, wait a second.

Does that matter?

And they're like, well, you can't go and you can't bring a plus one this time and, or you can, and all that stuff is someone's in a room deciding your fame level.

And I think that's what I'm saying.

Yeah, and they're all, all the pictures of people on the red carpet.

And you've like gone out of your way to look hot and you're not in the picture.

Or they'll say a press announcement of like who came and you're not in those 10 they mentioned.

You're like, oh, okay.

Well, I was going to say, and one other thing, I find that I still see my name in the press and it'll be misspelled.

Oh.

And I'll just go, okay.

Do they misspell Crow or Cheryl?

They do a C?

Cheryl.

They can't get any of it.

Sometimes it'll be like an E on the end of Crow.

Yeah.

Anyway, it's all that's the part.

That's the part that was so, once I moved, and especially once my boys came, and really, truth be told, after I got diagnosed with cancer, all that stuff just kind of went out the window and seemed ridiculous, you know?

That same thing happened to me.

It It happened to me twice.

Once with a health issue I had, botch bypass, but feels good now.

And once when I was picking up my son and he went in for the play date, he's like nine.

He comes out.

He has a severely fractured wrist.

Oh my God.

It's just like going at a right angle.

So we had to drive him to the hospital.

And in that moment, everything got real clear, you know?

Yeah.

I read this thing recently based on what we're talking about.

And I can't believe I read something recently that would be helpful in terms of getting dinged in show business.

The people who criticize you are doing less than you.

Ooh, I like that.

Isn't it good?

Because, like, we would never judge you.

We know what the work that goes in.

You know, I don't ever think of anybody who's hot or not.

I just know they have a story and they're talented and whatever.

But do you go on social media at all and look around?

And David's.

I'm so, I mean, my assistant's sitting over here.

I'm totally embarrassed.

But first of all, I'll say that my kids say I was born in the 1870s.

i am so not tech but also i i have nothing to do with social media and that's not true that's not true i'm involved in my social media but i don't know how to go on it i don't know how to post i hand stuff to liz and i'll say can we post about this this matters or

But I don't, I just don't do it.

My kids don't have social media.

I already know how my personality is and there's so much mean stuff on there.

I would be distraught.

So.

how do you get your kids to not do they want to be on and you can't you don't let them well my 15 year old um

initially about about when he turned 12 started begging me for snapchat

about 12 and a half and all of his friends had snapchat they didn't have instagram they didn't have uh whatever else that you have what else is there tick didn't have tick tock um i know i'm sorry but um didn't have tick tock and then uh

weird i am weird i i love upworthy like i love that that i can get with but anyway so he asked me for his 14th birthday if he could have snapchat

and i said oh my gosh buddy you don't have to ask for it for your birthday so he got that I mean, that's the weird one because you can't check what they're doing, but there's a thousand ways.

Yeah, it is sneak chat.

There's so many ways, though, to see all the TikTok stuff on YouTube.

And we have all the parameters.

Friends' house.

And, you know,

hard to control.

My daughter is actually grew up.

I don't know where you were in Missouri.

She is in Springfield right now.

Oh, and not far.

Yeah, so she that's where she's growing up.

And so

I think it's nice.

It's nice there, right?

It is nice there.

It is.

My brother went to college there.

And I've tried to keep her there as long as I can in a bubble before she

comes to stay in LA sometimes because just I can tell it's just, it's getting scarier and scarier of how terrifying it is for them to open to that world yeah but it's kind of that way everywhere i mean we just have a we have a rule that you can't be on your phone after you know can't come and lay down on the couch and be on your phone for you know i'm sort of at a 30 minute you can do 30 minutes pick your screen

um

and

i look at my screen time it says i'm on uh 22 hours a day i'm like we can pump those numbers up

I know they do.

They admonish you.

Your phone says you're down.

You're down this week.

Your usage is down?

Fuck you.

Why aren't you on it for?

I'm getting a report.

What can we do to get you sucked back in?

Yeah, come on.

You know, anger really sells, man, and outrage, but I don't look at it.

I get way too sensitive.

If I see one negative thing, or were you ever funny?

Or whatever they say, I'm kind of bummed out.

And it makes me mad that I even am affected.

But I don't listen or watch anything I do, essentially.

I don't like to see, hear, or feel anything.

Me neither.

Me neither.

Plus, I'll tell you the one thing about making a documentary when you're 60, right?

Sexy.

You see all that old, I'm 60.

I turned 60 in February.

You see all that old footage of yourself and you still think you're that person.

And then it comes back over to an interview with you.

And there you are in the chair and you're 60.

And you, you know,

I don't want to see it.

I don't want to, like, I like to think that I'm still like in my 30s.

Hey, I'm up the ladder looking down at your age going, not bad.

But you're right.

How do we compete you know we're all so cute everyone is essentially all humans all humans

in their 20s adorable everybody's really cute in their 20s and 30s but it's hard to you know compare what about cheryl woodstock data i watched her she was in the woodstock one i watch it because they said you were on it and so i watched 1999 that one yeah well wherever you had a full-blown mullet I did.

I was wearing.

Let me just tell you.

Please.

This is a total aside.

So, I have these wonderful hair pieces I can clip in my hair, right?

Nice.

Not wearing them now, but if I go on stage or whatever, and I have clipped them on both my boys so that they'll look like Tommy Boy.

Wait, what?

I mean, Joe Dirt.

Sorry, Joe Dirt.

Oh, my gosh.

There's so many.

That's all right.

Joe Dirt, yes.

Joe Dirt is a big Halloween

costume.

Yeah, it is a look.

That's cool.

Oh, my gosh.

I love it so much.

But yeah, that documentary 1999 the woodstock is i watched part of it on the airplane a couple of days ago and i had to turn it off it was so disturbing and i remember it i remember how awful it was was it scary for you because it got scarier like by the time jewel got on and stuff it was getting closer and closer to that whole i remember hearing about it but when you watch how everyone went bananas it must have been uh i can't believe who would stay you know what i mean it was so bad yeah i don't know it is interesting that people did stay.

It almost felt like they couldn't leave, but it was, it was debauched from the beginning because we were on the first day.

And we, you could look out and you'd see all these girls who were topless on guys' shoulders, you know, trying to get the MTV camera to sweep around in front of them and get on TV.

And

they were already throwing shit.

from the outhouses that were not set up right, that were leaking.

And at what point some landed on my hand while I was playing bass during my favorite mistake?

That's when we stopped.

We played about four songs and I remember saying, Nat, not gonna do it.

Not gonna do it.

Not gonna die.

Letting me prove you.

I don't normally do characters on the podcast, but not gonna do it.

Feces

on the bass.

Bad.

Anyway, well, that's a good gig story.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've got a few of those.

That was a highlight, though we went on after andy dick

and then so that tells you what the vibe was yeah that's uh he went on after insane clown posse so we were

who was going after them jesus we were like is this our is this our crowd what'd you open with a lineup would you come out with a rocker how'd you try to follow andy dick

i think we came out with if it makes you happy i mean that was our weapon but that is a weapon how is that your is that your one to go to

you You have a lot of anthems.

You have a lot, a lot of anthems.

God, look through her shit.

I was like going, look at that song.

Oh, my God.

Because I love leaving Las Vegas and it came up my iTunes the other day knowing.

Oh, wow.

And it was without my phone knowing I was, you know, we were going to talk this week.

Or did it?

Yeah, did it.

Yeah, that's really the question.

And that was, that's a monster at that beginning bass.

And great song.

There's a huge story about it in your documentary.

And then

also, and then you keep going and going.

Your first Letterman,

backup for Michael Jackson.

Just getting that, you kind of skimmed over that in audition for Michael Jackson.

How in Godscreen Earth did you sneak in an audition where they didn't go, your name's not on this list.

You were just cute.

You ran in and said, I'm next.

It's weird.

I did a few sessions out there with, I started to get a little bit of work singing jingles, you know, the songs that are in commercials for those that don't know.

And

I think because I was the new kid in town, I started to get some work and started getting hired and was on a couple of sessions with the same guys.

One of them was Daryl Fennessy, who's a fantastic singer.

And actually, it was for John, one of them was for Johnny Mathis.

And

I overheard him talking to another singer about the Jackson tour.

So

I asked about it and

you had to be recommended by Bruce sweden or quincy jones um or rod temperden and of course i didn't know any of those people i think i'd been in town maybe six months when i first started getting work and um i found out where it was and i drove out it was at a rehearsal space i want to say sir but that they don't i don't think they have that in in la can't remember what it was called drove there and thought well what's the worst thing that can happen so i went and i knocked on the door and i they they let me in they they asked me what my name was i said i'm cheryl crow

i am not recommended but i overheard Daryl Finnessy.

I mean, I told him straight up.

It's good you threw in some.

And they said, well, come on in.

And they put me on video first.

And I said, Hey, Michael, my name is Cheryl Crowe.

I just moved here.

I was an elementary school teacher.

I'm out here doing sessions and would love a chance to go on the road and sing backup for you or whatever.

And then I

got a call from Daryl and he

put me with

a couple other singers and we went in and and sang together and they hired us now was this supposed to be backup or we should sing backup idea okay

but you eventually were doing stuff singing with well he had two two or three songs that featured uh females like one of them was man in the mirror which was side a garrett on the record yeah

oh and i can't stop loving you was also was that also

yeah that one

listen you know you're always talking about Quincy, the old show you watch, but there's also Quince.

I love the reference.

And you're always talking about

the

grouchy mortician or whatever Quincy was.

Well, you always, when you hear it, you always think it's Quint and you think of the guy in John Jaws.

John Jaws, that's right.

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My wife's in-laws came to visit, and they're in their 80s and they're Irish.

And they didn't, they wanted to put them up somewhere.

And so we got an Airbnb

and we went to it.

It was right in the little town, and it was spectacular.

It was just amazing.

And they loved it.

And so they had privacy in their time.

They could walk around the little town and we didn't have to put them up here and have someone say, do you know, could I, where would I get a towel if I needed a towel?

You know, that kind of thing.

Where do you keep your shallaling?

Could I get a washcloth, please?

But anyway, where do you keep your potato?

They were really,

this goes to Ireland, you know.

No, but they're incredibly sweet and they had a great time.

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It's interesting when we see you like you're at home now, and you're Cheryl and sweet, personable.

But when I watch you with Jagger and Michael Jackson, okay, so like these Titans, and you're just like going for it.

I mean, it is kind of a it's a personality you put on it.

It's fierce and rock starry.

I mean, what that transition?

I mean, who was tougher, Jagger

or Michael, to like keep in their face?

Because they're both really aggressive, dancing with you, and you're right, right up on top of them.

It's very cool to see.

Um, uh, Mick Jagger was, I mean, he's he was far more terrifying for sure.

I mean, I'd grown up with that guy, right?

I had grown up with the sticky fingers record and unzipping the zipper.

I mean, they were like dangerous,

like edgy,

and they had all this folklore around them, you know.

And, um, and, and

by the time I got to sing with them,

um, I mean, I, I, I'd seen them live a handful of times.

I mean, that was like, that was the bomb.

I was so afraid and I threw up all day.

I was a nervous wreck.

Um, and I think I even talked about the documentary about um, Bobby Keys handing me a bottle of tequila right before I went on.

The

bottle

of have a shot of courage.

And the next thing I know, I'm out there with them.

And

yeah, I mean, it's, it's a funny thing.

And I know you guys know this too.

It's like you have, you have this side that has to, has to show up and be fearless.

But then you also, I don't know if you guys are like this.

As soon as you walk off stage, you go, oh my God, I suck or I sucked.

Or that was, you know, I want to do it again.

I wish I could, you know, and it's, it's that, that

sort of balance between

stepping into it and then coming away from it and being able to just put it away without rehashing it with your, with all the voices that are in your head that tell you you suck.

Do you, I sometimes do it later on.

I mean, when you came off from Jagger, really in that moment, did you think I just sucked?

Or did you feel kind of cool?

Obviously, the first faces are crew guys or whatever, and they have a range of compliments.

Hey, and sometimes they'll change it midway or nothing.

Hey, that was really

good.

You you know they go from great

you get these little messages and then if you get someone really high you crushed it you crushed it you know yeah and then later hours later i would think ah i missed that i rushed that so that it's a funny you know it's a it's a funny thing um

that was such an out-of-body experience that i it was hard to even relate to it and then compound that with

i mean literally we were we didn't even have a hit yet i mean all i want to do had come out and it was starting to happen.

But

I couldn't even process it.

But, you know, my nature has always been to

not think I'm good enough, you know, and I guess that's part of what propels you to work so hard is that you feel like whatever you're doing is never as great as the Rolling Stones or never as great as Stevie Nick's or not even as great as you think you should or could be.

And it's taken me years really to grapple with that.

And, you know, there's also, you know, you talk about the mental

challenges that go along with being an artist

or somebody who puts themselves out there that shows up.

You know, I spent a little time with

Robin Williams

for the years.

And you look at somebody like that who can open himself up and be so beautifully funny and so just

seemingly happy.

Yeah, but then in their real life, you know, they're struggling.

And that's, that's the story of a lot of us.

I got to know Robin quite a bit.

I've known, I knew him since the 70s.

And I got to know him when we were both up here in Marin County for the last five years.

And part of what I feel about him is like his shyness and his vulnerability.

He would call me boss, but he was my idol.

And then his powerhouse on stage.

And really, he created this idea of a Shakespearean actor just showing up.

And it was just a brilliant concept of like, oh, hey, whoo, and you never knew where he was going to go, you know?

One thing I wanted to ask you, Cheryl, but David's going to ask a question first.

Go ahead.

No, I have a question about what to say to people when they get off stage.

So I did the God, why do I think you were here?

Andrew, Andrea Agassiz

Charity in Vegas.

Maybe you weren't there.

So it's

all these stars go on, right?

Okay, it's comedy.

Yeah.

There's me, I was at the table with Ray Romano.

I thought you were at my tape.

Why do I even think this?

Anyway.

I was there.

Okay, so you were there.

Okay.

Yes.

That's the night I met Lance Armstrong.

Okay, Kelly.

Interesting.

My next question.

That's part two.

Part two of the interview.

Okay, I'll whiz through this story first because this one sucks.

So there, there's, so they go, Ray's there, and you're there.

We're all this tape, whatever.

They go, okay, you're going to go up, then Cheryl, then then remember remember so I have to go up before Ray and I go after

do you remember there was like an 11 year old phenom singer from like American Idol or something yes I do yes I do so I go they go she's only doing one song or something so I'm waiting in the wings and she goes up and she does like I will always love you or something and she gets a standing ovation

and she walks off and I go hey get him next time And then she goes, what?

Because I had to get in her fucking head, Cheryl, because you know what?

She blew me off the the stage and I hate, I couldn't follow her.

So I'm like, hey, tough crowd, huh?

And she's like, what?

I love your honesty.

I love your honesty.

11 years old.

I got to get in there and let her know what's going on, man.

And so then I went on.

She's been in therapy ever since.

She's like, didn't I get a standing obey?

She never sang again.

Isn't that good?

I'm like,

so then I got up.

First of all, that was embarrassing.

And then I get up and then I bomb.

And then I come down and I say to Ray Romano, just like comedian to comedian, I go, hey, listen, you're next.

Listen, the tables are really far apart.

They can't hear you in the front.

There's kids in the back.

There's a bar over here.

It's just, it's the worst case scenario.

He gets up and kills for 20 minutes straight.

And I was like, uh-huh.

After I just explained why he's going to bomb, and there's absolutely no way to do well here.

He doesn't go down for anybody.

Have you ever, Cheryl, when I've seen you sing on this documentary, and it seems like you, if you have nerves, they never affect your voice you i like if you're terrified with jagger you don't hit a bad note do you in the whole thing i mean that's just more mathematical right you don't hit a bad note that's size i've bombed i have bombed before i promise in fact i can remember doing a tribute i think it might have been I feel like Neil Young was on it.

I don't know.

It was a music cares thing.

And I thought I knew the song, but I didn't know it very well.

And I got up and literally could not think of a single word and sang practically the whole song making up crap.

And I remember coming off stage and John Sykes, who was the head of

the head of VH1, saying something about, wow, I don't know if I've ever heard that ring

before.

Yes, I have definitely had moments of bombing.

Oh, yeah.

I've had death-to-fine bombs.

I've done corporate work occasionally.

I worked at a gun show,

and all these guys were eating steaks with their backs to me, and they would just

kind of look up.

But, you know, they pay you so much, you have to do those.

Comedians are easy, they throw you anywhere.

But I'm jealous of musicians because corporate gigs can be tough.

And then, but with musicians, you can sort of, even if you bomb in quotes, you just say yours, you just do your song.

The in-between is kind of awkward because there's crickets.

Yeah.

But we're doing every line.

We're getting feedback that it's not working.

It's not.

Yeah.

I cannot i just can't imagine being a comedian and i i love i love the art form i love comedians and david i've never seen you bomb you've always made me laugh oh that's nice

but you're a sweet person and uh no no that's the truth i just can't imagine

we did a corporate gig no no no we did a virtual gig uh in during the pandemic and i've never done one of those where you do a concert in front of like nothing yeah

there's no no like in between songs it's like okay you hit that big last chord and then

it's like playing in japan you look over and there's some guy on the side just texting he's like works here he's like go on do your next song i call it comedy waterboarding I did one with Tony Robbins and he was interviewing me on the Zoom and he was so enthusiastic and he had a global audience and all these screens.

And I would do Tony Fauci or something and go, give it up from Dana Carvey.

And then there'd be two minutes of of music and I would just be dancing in my room.

No laughs.

Woo!

Yeah.

You know,

I love Tony.

But I was going to ask you, so you, the one thing about being hard on yourself, and you're still around doing great stuff is that we have data now.

And there is something about lasting, you know, and putting out cool stuff.

And it seems to me that when you really got into the super celebrity thing, it was when you were already exploding as a superstar and then you're dating another superstar.

And that's when the tabloids went 10.0, right?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

And, you know, I think interestingly enough, I had dated people before that were well known, but there was something about that combo

that was

just

ripe for fodder.

Yeah, it was, yeah, I mean, it's like, I mean, I wouldn't put myself with JLo and A-Rod, like way up there, but you know, a combo like that is, is, it's tutilating, I guess, yeah.

Well, because there was Owen, hey, how's it going?

Oh, you know, love Owen.

Well, Owen's the coolest dude.

I still communicate with Owen.

I absolutely love him.

Just, you know, and I, I mean, I've been really fortunate, and I don't really have anything bad to say about Lance at all.

Um, I have been really fortunate to be with the people that i've been with and i wouldn't change it you know yeah i think but i will say one thing i did dream last night that i married brad pitt

you must know brad pretty well that's a good plan i do know him pretty well you know i went to college with him oh really

did the girls all love him then or what was he like well you know it's really funny he's a year younger than me

um and i was the

song or the yeah the song leader at his fraternity signal

Yes.

Really?

So I went over and I would work with them with their, their, uh, we had, I can't remember what was called, Greek week or whatever.

So I was like, their coach or whatever.

But I knew him from campus running around.

I knew the girl he was dating.

And

we're always friendly.

He's from Springfield where your daughter is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Always friendly.

And I've seen him through the years.

He's a good dude.

I swear he sort of takes an odd beating out there over this divorce thing that never ends, but he's, I've never seen him not be cool to people, not be nice to people.

He seems like the most down-to-earth.

He's a nice person.

Big of a star as he is, he gives everybody time.

I don't know how he does it.

But he keeps getting roughed up.

I mean,

that's a divorce for you, I guess.

I don't know.

The energy around someone like Brad Pitt, and I think part of his shyness or reclusiveness, he's not really readily available.

And it almost like Clooney was with Matt Damon and Brad Pitt, and they're at some film festival in Europe.

And Clooney just said, like, he and Damon just disappeared as soon as Brad Pitt showed up.

So this other level of being a true sex symbol and a really brilliant actor is just this 10.0.

Well, David, you know how that is.

Being a sex symbol is very strong.

Cheryl, I'm glad you're here.

David and the ladies have a nice

arrangement.

It's a struggle.

But you know, the truth is also when you're dating, like you were saying, if you date someone in the business, like you almost have to date someone like an Owen because,

like that song even says, Are you strong enough?

Like, first of all, the tabloids don't care when you date a normal person, so it's not as big of a deal.

And people think you're not even dating, they don't know what's going on, and then they only jump on it if it's someone they know.

And they, and like, together it equals like five stars.

It's like two celebrities equal five.

So, it's like you see these people on like uh reality shows together.

they make one actual star.

So that's why they always date each other.

Someone from The Bachelor dates someone from this one.

Well, the cynic kind of thinks,

is it an arrangement, David?

Is it sort of like, hey, let's date for three months?

Well, some of those will explode.

You two should get together for three months.

That's why I'm going to marry Brad Pitt because I feel like that'll put me actually at

least a five.

Oh, you'd be huge.

You'd be a good one.

No, you two guys, people couldn't deal with it.

That'd be crazy.

I I love my life.

I don't want to get married.

I love my life.

You don't want to get married?

That's crazy.

No, I would just want to sleep around.

Yeah.

All right.

Now let's unpack the last part of our podcast.

Showcraft.

I'm going to make sure my kids listen to this podcast.

Yeah, good.

Hey, you know, women should own their sexuality.

They should be able to do that too.

They should.

But I got to be honest with you.

Nine o'clock at night.

Yeah.

I'm like, that's like, yeah, that's REM sleep for me at 9:30.

I'm out.

If the guy's ready to rally from 8.50 to 9, if it's not in that window, beat it.

Yeah, I don't know.

I'm with you, Sherry.

During the pandemic, I just went to bed early, got up early.

It's hard for a nightclub performer when you get up at 5.30 and the show's at 10 that night.

You have to wait

for 10 hours.

But

I like to work with you.

In Vegas, me and Dana did this show.

I do it usually.

And then he covered for me once.

And he's like, this thing's at fucking 10, dude.

I know, I know.

And then we do a Q ⁇ A at the end.

So it's at like you get off by midnight i go is that that's too late right he's like yeah and i go yeah what am i doing i like seven o'clock shows i really at this age i just like i don't want to 30 anyway you also i was gonna say oh yeah no i won't ask you about this but

ask me anything no it's not that exciting i'm no i'm not i'm not i'm I first of all like that when in the special when you said driven is sort of a negative to women But I think that it's nice in this day and age when no one really seems to want to work or work hard that that seems like a trophy to say I was, you know what I mean?

You wear it like a medal.

Like I'm driven, meaning I actually want to bust my ass and try really hard to get in a business where it seems like every year that goes by, that that's not how it works anymore.

People want to be given things or people want to jump ahead a lot easier and they don't want to work or they don't have to work.

And so I love watching that when people put in the hours because it is a hard job to get right.

And if you take it seriously, whether it's stand-up or that or any sort of writing, you write and

do it all and you perform, that that's like something to be so proud of.

And it's weird when people give it to you like it's a negative.

That's a hard thing to take.

Yeah, I think.

I think for women, you know, the idea of an ambitious woman is such a turn off.

Like, for instance,

you know, well, it's like a woman gets called like a bitch.

Yeah.

You know, um, I can remember when, uh,

I mean, this goes way back, but um, what was the woman?

Oh, my gosh, uh, who ran for president years ago?

Sarah Palin or vice president.

No, no, no, this is way, way.

I want to say Kafara, but it's not that.

But anyway, uh,

about, there was always a discussion about her, how ambitious she was and how

uh

unlikable you know that kind of thing and i i don't know i i i still find that is is problematic when you have ambitious men and it's such a admirable trait but for a woman to be ambitious and let's face it you know if you are the head of a company or or if you're a politician or or a successful woman in general you you have some ambition and that ambition is fed by hopefully the desire to be really good at something and the love of doing that something And that, you know, that's

that question you were just asking, David, about people not wanting to work hard.

I mean, even in raising my boys, I keep having to say to them, look, if you're going to do this, you want to dedicate your energy and your time and you're blessed to have resources to be good at this thing that you love.

because it's not all about the end product.

And it's, I don't know where we're off, like where, when I was growing up, everybody was middle class.

There was no, you know, people weren't rich.

And

so I grew up idolizing all these amazing musicians and bands.

And I felt like I didn't, it wasn't about being famous.

It was about being great.

You know what I mean?

So I don't know where we're off.

I guess it's really easy to be, to be famous and it's really easy to get rich.

That's it.

Yeah.

So nobody really wants to, they don't equate work with becoming famous or work with becoming rich.

It just changed, and it's not anyone's fault.

But we, when you were really, when you're on television as Frank Sinatra or whoever, or, or Stevie Nicks, they were just really great.

And now, because of social media and instant hits and stuff, and it's very demoralizing for young people when they see, and I do a joke, a guy who opens pickles jars and is making seven figures.

All right, my name's Steve.

Today we're going to open some nice deals, you know, and he's making seven figures on YouTube, yeah.

YouTube and monetization.

Yeah, he's good.

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Interesting enough,

this comes back to you.

So the corporations of the big music publishing companies are now buying artist catalogs.

They obviously got Springsteen, they got this.

They're not so much buying.

the more modern product because these anthems, these big songs really monetize well going generationally.

You know, like your hits, you know, could are just right here, right now, strong enough.

I mean, they're just, if it makes you happy, all those.

So, have you, have you been approached or have you sold your catalog?

Well, I sold my catalog,

not my songwriters, but I sold my catalog about three albums ago because everything was going to streaming.

And we were approached with the idea that they would start getting placement so that the songs would be heard more,

but I wouldn't lose my songwriters.

So I didn't get the giant chunk that like a Springsteen or a bubble, you know, Bob Dylan or whatever.

What's a songwriter mean, though?

What do you mean?

So you get paid for the,

you get paid publishing.

And you get paid your songwriter.

So I split my songwriter with whoever I write my song with.

And if I don't write it with somebody, then I take 100% of the songwriters

fee or whatever, the money that comes in.

So when it goes through ASCAP or BMI or wherever it is,

some of it goes to the publishing company, some of it goes to the songwriter.

But it's interesting now because everything is streaming.

You know, we make a

penny or maybe two pennies every time a song is streamed.

So

how much of a penny do you get paid for the song right?

It's it's it's nothing.

I mean, 100% of a penny is still going to be a penny, you know?

So

it's, it's all, it's just ridiculous.

And I, I don't know.

I mean, I love that Bruce and Neil and all these people are making hundreds of millions of dollars, but I go,

I don't know.

I mean, it's sort of like Bitcoin to me.

Do you mean like, how does the people that buy it make it back?

Because it's so, it's, is it overpaying?

Well, I guess what they do is they sell the right to use that song in a commercial.

They stay that they're out there to try to sell it to make money with movies and stuff like that.

Right.

And that's why maybe the album is kind of over for now, in a way.

I mean, you're going to release more like just batches of songs, or are you really?

I'm going to release batches of songs, but I mean, that's not for everybody.

For me, like I said, I'm 60.

Is the new term batches?

Pancakes.

You're going to do batches of songs.

Like batch one.

Yeah, batch two.

The promised land.

I liked in the Dana in the documentary, remember, I think it was toward the end

where

she said,

you came out to somewhere.

Maybe it was Bonnaroo.

Where is Bonnaroo in Tennessee or something?

Yeah, yeah.

And the people weren't there yet.

But by the time you went on, first of all, when you said four o'clock, I was like, I was at one of those festivals and it was like...

Norm McDonald went on at noon.

I went on at 7.

I luckily went on before Tom Petty, which is great.

But it was kind of nighttime, but there were very weird times we went on.

It was like all day, but you went on, the place was packed, and then you said this whole new generation.

When you went to, I think, if it makes you happy, which is one of your big mango hits, that uh, they all knew it, and that's cool.

That's the coolest thing is that it keeps going.

It's for me like someone seeing a movie or something that they, a new generation knows it, and you can't believe how would you even see it?

Because that's something people like.

People don't listen to radio.

You go, oh, here's a new Cheryl Crow song, or here's an old one.

Someone had to tell them or something and they all know all the words.

It's very cool.

I mean,

it's funny because about maybe five years ago, my manager started talking about, and now you're a legacy artist.

And I'm like, oh, that's like, okay, I've got my art card.

I'm a legacy artist.

That's what I'm trying to be.

But it's kind of cool.

Yeah.

I mean, people's kids have grown up.

I mean, like I, I know Burt Bacharach and I know,

of course, obviously another Rolling Stones.

But I mean, I grew up with parents that played music and all this generation is growing up with parents who grew up with my music.

And

it is a rarefied place to be.

It's, you know, it's awesome.

Some high school kid today, boy or girl, is going to listen to my favorite mistake today for the first time and become possessed by it.

You know,

I mean, I notice in your songwriting, which is kind of cool.

And, you know, Brandi Carlisle talked about it.

You're kind of, you're doing these major chords or just this setup, and then it goes in unexpected places.

I'm not a musicologist, but it seems to go minor or weird that the second parts of your songs are so explosively different.

And the setup is kind of,

I don't know.

I mean, how do you write a melody like that's that part for my favorite mistake?

Because that's such a cool melody, weird,

you know.

I don't know, but I will say, I'm, I love, I'm so proud of my references.

Like, I loved the Beatles so much.

What?

I know.

I feel guilty.

Yeah.

Love the Beatles.

And that documentary just,

I mean, I binge watched it and then I re-watched the last episode.

And

it, you know, I think a lot of, a lot of stuff that I wind up writing is osmosis.

I mean, you know, I don't know what it's like to write jokes.

Because it seems like, I mean, I'm sure you guys grew up with George Carlin and

Richard Pryor, all the, all the greats.

And I'm sure.

Same thing.

Same thing.

Yeah.

So you get a, like a

cadence or, you know, you, you do what they do for a while.

And then you go, okay, how now you start hopefully transitioning to who you are and that becomes your thing, but you're still standing on the shoulders of all the

dudes that wrote the book, right?

You're like a research paper of your favorite people, and then you start turning into your own.

This is a horrible question to ask, but what Beatle songs kind of speak to you like off the top of your head that you really liked?

Okay, I'll just start: Here, There, and Everywhere.

Here, There, and Everywhere.

I mean, that song is amazing, and then you hear Amy Lou Harris do it, and you go, That song is amazing again.

Yes, I mean, that's why their songs are so great.

Yesterday is one of my favorite songs, Long and Winding Road is one of my favorite songs.

Um,

uh, Love by John Lennon is one of my favorite songs.

Oh, I got married.

There's so much good stuff in there i mean get back uh uh

come together i mean just

you know but definitely blackbird and yesterday to me are the two of the greatest songs ever written when we did um

talk to we got lucky talk to paul but he said was it yesterday where he says when he goes when he brings it in do you bring it in and go i got a winner and he goes no you can't you have to walk in and go hey i did a new one if you guys want to hear it and then he said ringo said

I can't put any drums on that.

And then John said, I can't put any more guitar on it.

And they said, what if we put strings?

And he said, no.

That was George Martin.

Yeah.

And he said, no, it's we're rock and roll.

We don't want strings on it.

And I go, oh, we get a little bit of the process.

Yeah, it was interesting, Cheryl.

And we can cut this out if it overlaps.

But we did get to talk to Paul.

And we were both very nervous.

I was on the road in Wyoming with my family in Montana.

But anyway,

he

once we started talking about get back, he really lit up.

And I asked him, Did John ever thank you for your bass lines?

And that was like a big thing for him.

Well, we found our way to come together.

And he talked about how John just had one line, Here Come Old Flat Top, which was a Chuck Berry song he had to pay for later.

And then he kind of teased it out of him that he wrote that opener.

He said to Joan, We got to have an opener.

We can't just go right in.

So that became

so I go, Paul, that's one of the best

openings of a song ever.

And then later on, he had said, we wrote it face to face because he comes in, even though it's so Lennon-y, Paul comes in with one a cracker.

He got Juju Eyeball.

So

Paul, his comprehensive musicality, I think, just influenced the band.

His fingerprints were ever like, because he could do the percussion.

He had a four-octave range, sing all the harmonies.

He could play all the keyboards and all the guitars.

So anyway, interesting interview.

And I couldn't sleep for a week after that because I kept thinking of what I should have asked.

I see.

I would have just loved to have been in the room.

Listening to you guys interview him because that was one of the things about the documentary that

me not to be like

all woo-woo and stuff, but

watching them in the room and

the musicality of all four of those guys like ringo never played anything that didn't feel exactly perfect and right for the song yep for the song uh

paul i mean everything he played was not just tasteful but it was like unique and memorable i mean there was so much happening his

his interplay even the tension between he and george all of

and and then the combination of him and john i know i'm going on i'm going somewhere we love we love to talk about there is I mean, I am so, I so believe that there is an energetic

component to the universe that brings that together.

I mean, because

there are too many

instances where you just go, where in the world did that come from?

Or even when you write a song and you go, okay, like my favorite mistake, I felt that way after that song.

I felt like, okay, I don't know where that came from.

And also, I feel like it's already been written because it feels so complete.

Such a great movie.

There are moments where you go, okay, you can't define what creativity is.

Yeah, you can't really define what inspiration is, but it is a real thing.

And that to me is like, okay, that's just God.

I mean, however you want to define that energy that is unique to you.

And I watched that in that.

documentary, that energy that no matter what was happening between them, it all was part of the outcome.

I don't know.

I just, I guess the older I get, the more I get into the idea that these things aren't accidents.

You're tapping into something.

Well, Dennis Miller, who's a big Beatle fan, he said it this way to me.

He goes, Carvey,

I can understand, you know, Led Zeppelin, okay?

I get Pink Floyd or, you know, you two and all of that.

But for the life of me, I can't understand the Beatles.

How does that happen?

And it's lightning in a bottle.

What was sweet about it, Cheryl, and it'll be on the podcast, is that he still has this love of John.

And there was an

he loved that

you could see them joking around with each other.

Yeah.

Even though John was taking the piss out of him a little bit, there was a bit of a competition going on because Paul had Long and Windy Road.

He was on this upswing and had a ton of songs.

And John had to bring Across the Universe to the album, which is insane.

It's like a left, it's a right.

It's too much.

I mean, if the amount of hits you could retire off that one alone, I know.

If he just wrote here, there, and everywhere, he'd be a famous person.

But I can see your influence in a good way, but you have your own Sheryl Crow brand.

But I think you do write songs.

I'm sure if you've met Paul, and I'm sure he's a fan of your music.

That's pretty trippy, right?

I don't know.

I don't know if he is or not, but I did.

It's kind of funny.

I did meet him when I was doing Fallon in the NBC building.

And it's funny because

I have so many memories.

I mean, certainly from doing Saturday Night Live.

Oh, that's right.

Being in that building and getting to see people, you know,

three times on SNL, Cheryl Crowe.

Three times on SNL.

That's a hard one to do.

They have the choice of anyone at all times and to get Aspect 3.

I had to sleep with Lauren like 11 times.

Oh, I've been there.

What did Lauren say to you?

I'm still sleeping with him.

I don't know why.

I don't even, just just I'm in the habit.

So you'll be doing If It Makes You Happy, and that'll be your first song.

Maybe something we've heard of.

Oh, maybe

the second song you pick, Dealer's Choice.

Here's what Paul said to me about you, Cheryl.

You know, I go, Paul, who do you like contemporary?

You know, I like Cheryl Crowe, you know.

She's got a good thumper.

She's got a good, you know, bassy.

And she's got good souls and harmonies.

She's a big vocal, a big voicer.

Sorry.

That's.

funny.

You didn't say that.

She's freaking out.

Don't I'm freaking out just going, oh my gosh.

I'm sure he loves you.

I wish I would have recorded that and then posted it like he actually did say that.

Well, you know, if it makes you happy, why are you so sad?

You know, it's one of those turns John and I would do.

It's like a big old course, you know, makes you happy.

You think, oh, it makes you happy.

Then why are you so sad?

It takes the carpet out, you know.

And that would keep the gun going, you know.

It gets you all willy-jilly.

I don't know.

Okay, I'll do it all day.

That's incredible.

that sounds that's incredible i do it just to be with paul mccartney i will you call my voicemail and just leave that on there for me so i can use

pull's not here right now i can't do it but um dana yeah i got to tell cheryl before we uh let her leave and go back to the she doesn't want to leave she wants to talk about she doesn't want to leave she's i don't i don't have to tell her that when i'm looking over these songs first of all i like that I'm trying to look at my favorite ones just for absolutely no reason.

But if it makes you happy, I like that you work in mosquito in that one because it's hard to get into songs surely unused pop word yeah it's very very underused and i have to say and this is a dumb story but when i was uh

with kid rock one of his albums came out and this is we're hanging out more and he goes i think he was up against pink when it came out i don't know why i remember this it's probably a lie but i and so he's driving you can attest to this if you're in a car with him he's playing his album if you're in his house, he's playing his album.

If you're in his anywhere, he's playing a video of himself.

So

he goes, you got to hear the new album.

And I go, oh, and then he played the whole

thing.

So I don't know as much about music as you or Dana.

I don't know.

Dana knows a lot.

So he plays the songs and he goes, this one's the one that comes out first, and then this one, and then this one.

And then fucking picture comes on.

And I know nothing, Cheryl.

And I go, that's fucking great.

And i go play that one again and he goes it's with cheryl and i go god damn that's catchy that is so good and she's so good in it i said and he goes well that's going to come later and if i'm not mistaken the first two songs did okay and then picture blew the fuck up is that possible it explodes it's so good it's you know what he said which was funny he said

After you recorded it, he said, that's going to go to number one.

I was like, really?

Oh, that's so cool.

And he's like, that's going to go to number one.

I'm telling you, it pops up my iPod all the time.

And it's so fucking good.

And you're so great in it.

And I just go, God.

And I know he takes a beating out there, but he can sing, man.

He gets these, he gets it right.

And that one he got right.

And he's got a lot of great shit out there.

Yeah.

And

how did that happen?

He knew he had it and came to you, or you had it and came to him, or what happened?

Oh, no, he had it.

In fact, I didn't write nearly as much on that as he did.

I mean, and he's, he's super

like when he's in the studio, studio, he is fearless, man.

I mean, he has listened to so much great music and can play a lot of things.

And, um,

you know, he, he's really masterful at getting his ideas down.

And, um, yeah, he knows it back and forth.

He knows.

Yes, he, yeah, he does.

And he's, but he's also, you know, very savvy when it comes to what he thinks will hit.

And yeah.

You know, it's funny.

I used to bust his balls because he goes, hey, I got this, this guy wants me to come play his birthday party, give me 50 grand to to come sing.

I go, does he give you another 50 to get off?

Because he played, we do karaoke at my birthday party, and he goes, Maybe I'll get up with these guys.

I'm like, maybe it's going to be within seconds.

So he would sing karaoke, and then that was for the next three hours.

I don't know if you ever came down to

in New York, I think it was in the late 90s, maybe we would show up once a week at Shine, which was a club

downtown.

And we do all covers and any given night.

Oh my God, how funny.

Mike Mills, Stevie Nick sat in with us.

Keith Richards sat in with us.

Anyway, Kid Rock came down and it was the same night that Keith sat in and he kept yelling Keith's name, Keith Richards, Keith Richards.

And Keith got really mad, like irritated.

He's like, quit saying my fucking name.

And at one point, I'm just like, okay, I'm not sure how to manage.

You know, we're doing all these bad 90s covers.

Wow.

But yeah, he's a lot of fun.

And I will say that picture is one of the most covered songs that karaoke in London.

Oh, for sure.

That is, you know, one of my claims of fame.

Wow.

I'm telling you, it's on top of everything else you've done.

And then I was looking at this and I go, oh, that's right.

Picture on top of all this stuff.

So just had to.

High five you for that one.

That's so good.

Got a high five Bobby for that one.

Yeah, yeah.

he does he does i bust his balls all the time but he he is good okay you know traveling wool berries wall berries yes so uh past and present if you were gonna make a female super group who would be in there i mean obviously you would put in

Stevie

obviously I would put in Stevie Nicks most definitely

super group 10 out of 10 Stevie yeah and I would ask Brandy you know she loves you and she's cool.

Brandy is amazing and she's a great songwriter and she's just a kick-ass chip.

Yeah.

She's cool.

God, who else?

23.

It's like Nirvana.

So far, I know.

Emilou Harris.

Bonnie would be amazing.

Emmy would be amazing.

Linda Ronstaff.

Linda Ronstaff.

I was going to say.

Yes.

I mean, young-wise, I mean, you know, the Traveling Wheelberries, each one of them had a huge full body of material.

Yeah.

so i mean because there's a lot of young people out there that will will who's young that you like great oh man i mean i love marin she's great songwriter great performer great singer i love courtney barnett she's amazing i love the high am girls they're great

um

who just goes on and on yeah yeah yeah i mean i love florence and the machine she's really interesting there's a young girl named Cassie, I want to say.

Anyway, there's a lot of good young female music out there.

Yeah, it's hard to break through, though.

I mean, there's just, it's, there's just so much of everything.

Everything is everything now.

Yeah, it's true.

What's in your hand?

What's going on down there?

Who, me?

Yeah.

Oh, guitar picks.

Are you going to write us as soon as this podcast is over?

Are you going to pick up one of those guitars and just go fucking crazy and write a masterpiece?

Are you right?

A song about me and Dane?

Yeah, just like podcasting with the lady and Joe Dirt.

what is it

oh

did you forget how to play

what is that I can't even hear it

well that sounded a little patty smith didn't it I like it had a little punk to it we'll get it on tick tock right away cool please do yeah please get me on tick tock i know is that something they want you to do is like try to snippet your song on tick TikTok?

Okay, so the documentary was coming out and Showtime was really hoping that I would open a TikTok account and do TikTok.

God, is that so real?

12-year-old was like, mom, please don't.

I was like, that is so cringy.

I'm on TikTok and it's so great.

I'm going to join it.

You know that word cringy, though?

Like when you're fucking doing something that you shouldn't be doing because you're not cool.

It's cringy.

Yeah.

That's right.

I'm thinking of joining it, though.

I don't know.

You are?

I don't look at any social media, but I've heard of.

Dana doesn't even look, and he gets comments, and I have to answer for them because they go, hey, what does Dana think?

And I go, well, Dana would probably.

I don't see, look, at anything, but I do.

From what I understand, the New York Times.

You should do TikTok.

You would be huge.

Well,

okay, I'm saying that, and I don't.

Thank you, Cheryl.

You don't know anything.

I don't know anything about

knowledge of anything.

Well, I was reading

the New York Times had a 20-page article on what is TikTok.

So essentially, I got the idea that rhythmic musicality is shared.

Like you make something, like if I did chop broccoli, then other people take it and go with it.

So I don't know.

If it is about audio

musicality, catch it.

Chopping broccoli could work.

Cheryl knows what it is.

Chop.

I do.

I know.

I do.

Chopping broccoli.

Yeah, I've said that in my kitchen to my boys, and they look at me like, what?

Ah, we got to get your boys up to speed, man.

My kids don't want to.

Oh, I know.

I try to turn them onto all the good stuff.

They don't think I'm funny.

They just show me

Joe Dirt and Ben Schwarmers.

Oh, they're going to watch Joe Dirt for sure.

And they need to know who the church lady is for sure.

Wayne's World, they usually...

And Wayne's World, they need to know.

Yes, they will.

They will.

Get them up to stream.

And then next time we go to

down there, we'll make Cheryl come out to the show.

Hey, would y'all please let me know if you ever come to Nashville?

I'm your buddy.

I know, but I didn't.

Definitely.

I love Nashville.

We think about buying Nashville.

Nashville is cool.

I mean, it's cool.

Just don't come here and buy a house.

California, come on out to take over.

Californians making the prices go up, that kind of thing, interlopers.

Oh, my gosh.

You have no idea.

Montana, I'm from Montana.

It's all going on up there.

All the billionaires are coming in.

I'll take five of those.

There's a great comedian, Theo Vaughn, one of my good buddies, lives out there.

So when I go see him, I'll play the Ryman and then I'll make you come down.

Please.

How many seats is the rhyming i want to go in there and rock that place how much is amazing

i think i played it once yeah it's 20 somewhere around i did play it used to be grand was it the grand old opry or am i being stupid it was the grand old oprey and before that it was a church way way early before that it was a whataburger

well i played it i played it and i came off stage and cheryl happened to be there and she goes that was That was good.

I'm kidding.

That was so, you really went out there, didn't you?

She goes, oh, they're a little tight.

Why do we have all this self-loathing?

What the fuck is this?

No, here's the one to say, Dana.

When you get off,

when shirt gets off, I'm going to go, fuck that crowd.

I'm going to get in the feudal and you go, wait, I thought I did good.

I thought they liked me.

No, they were tough.

No, that was a hard crowd, man.

No, we'll get them.

We'll get them in the future position and cry myself to sleep with questions.

I should have done better.

Oh, no, you aren't.

Hey, this was the best podcast I've ever done.

Ever.

Thank you.

We love you.

You know, she's really good on the podcast.

She's very straightforward.

You don't have to play any games.

I do Paul now.

I actually write songs as Paul.

Okay, wait, when you interviewed Paul, did you do Paul?

Oh, yeah.

Did you do it?

I couldn't do it.

Did I interview Paul when you did?

I might have done it a little bit.

I was a little, I couldn't, you know, I was trying, I didn't want to piss him off, but I probably did interview paralysis.

Yeah.

I was like, I'm Dana's Yoko.

I mean, there's just so many things you're scared to say to him because

he seems very light on his feet, but you just, he's too respected.

You can't risk it.

He's a sir, right?

Yeah, he's too, it's too big a deal.

We didn't go there with a sir.

At first, I read a lot of liverpuddling phrases, so I said, did you have your brekkie?

Your brekkie?

But he was just waking up.

He had a cup of coffee.

I don't think he knew what I was talking.

That's breakfast in Liverpudlian language.

A scouser.

You know, we had a good time.

This is him now.

You know, we did some things.

We tried to do it.

No, he got into it.

He got into it toward the end of the day.

We didn't lose it anyway.

Yeah.

We were getting stuff from me, Cheryl.

It was just electrifying.

And he wanted to talk about the Beatles the whole time.

Oh, my God.

But I didn't know that from the beginning.

To hear it

from the guy.

All right.

So, anyway.

All right.

Let her go back to.

Cheryl.

Everybody loves you.

You're

a great artist.

I don't like, you know, legacy.

What's that?

And, you know, you're in Nashville.

You're like a teenager.

Yeah.

You know, like,

really?

In Nashville.

Country music does not have an age.

That's what's brilliant about it.

No, it's true.

It does not.

You do pop, rock, jazz.

You do every style, but you also can do country.

I have to say, I feel like I'm in my 20s.

You look.

And that's why I really like doing podcasts, because as far as your listening audience knows, I look like I'm in my 20s.

There, I said it.

You look great.

Your voice is still raspy and sexy, and then your singing is still perfect because i'm still smoking like a fiend you're

you stayed really fit even when you were touring i was i was gonna ask how you stayed so fit um throughout your career because using a tour a lot i mean i have to i have to admit um it is genetic what

yes it's genetic

I'm from a long line of wiry and petite, small, petite, wiry people.

So you don't gain weight.

You just kind of, and you work out on stage when you're out there.

I work out on stage and I'm very, I mean, I get up in the morning and I do not sit down.

I mean, I'm, I'm always doing.

Her backstage rider is five Triscuits and a Slim Jim.

And that's all I get all day.

That's it.

And one five-hour energy.

That's my, actually, that's mine.

All right, Cheryl, let's let her go, Dana.

She's been too nice.

Thank you.

Bye, Cheryl.

It's good to see y'all.

We'll see you soon, I'm sure.

In Nashville.

I hope so.

Call me when you come to Nashville.

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