RE-RELEASE - Sheryl Crow

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Speaker 1 Yes. Thank you for not feeding me the leftover lasagna for the 12th time.

Speaker 1 I love that we're able to introduce people to episodes we've done before. And one of our favorites,

Speaker 1 if you're going to hear in a second, is Cheryl Crowe, right, David? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Cheryl, who's kind of a friend of the show. I knew her a little bit from being a huge fan.
And then we had the same friend circle for a little bit. So I saw her.

Speaker 2 And she's also good friends with Courtney Cox and those girls.

Speaker 2 Super fun,

Speaker 2 super talented. And I think she's on tour now with Willie.
I just saw her on some flyers. This sounds very cool.

Speaker 2 Something I would definitely go to.

Speaker 2 But I've I've seen her play at Irvine.

Speaker 2 We dig a little bit with her because we like to have musicians on. Sometimes I love music, and Dana loves music, and you can play music.

Speaker 2 And so it's more fun probably for you to dig into someone who knows what they're talking about.

Speaker 1 And she called us in

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 1 Nashville. Yeah.
So that was kind of cool.

Speaker 1 And there are some fun parts when you talk to a musician and a songwriter and a singer who can really do that and who she thinks are the best people in history to have done that, you know.

Speaker 1 And so that's always fun to hear their take.

Speaker 2 And we interviewed her on Zoom and she was like in a garage with maybe 100 guitars. Guitars.

Speaker 1 I know. Do you remember that? You remember that? Yeah, yeah.
It was stunning looking. So anyway, enjoy this.

Speaker 2 Lovely lady, Cheryl Crowe.

Speaker 3 It's been 3,000 years since I've seen either one of you.

Speaker 1 Hi, Cheryl. Weren't you at the 40th? You were at the 40th, weren't you?

Speaker 3 Yes, I was. I was.

Speaker 1 So that's when we last saw each other when was that 2016 i think that was 40 years of the sal i know it's it feels like yeah

Speaker 1 cheryl cheryl crowe is with us i just like to say this 32 grammy nominations nine wins and 50 million albums there just to re-remind everyone what the fuck is going on right now

Speaker 3 Let me put on my glasses so I can see you. Okay, yes.
You both are looking very well. I'm sorry that your listeners can't see us visiting with each other through our camera screens.

Speaker 1 I know. Even though this is all audio, I spent about 45 minutes on my chair and lighting and stuff.

Speaker 1 I don't know why.

Speaker 3 Oh, I spackled my face.

Speaker 1 I got two guitars back there. The hair's looking great.

Speaker 3 Oh, Dana.

Speaker 1 I've always loved you.

Speaker 2 Dana looks like he's in solitary confinement.

Speaker 1 This room is empty of void, but my son had all my son's models and little army men are in a plastic container and the laptop's on top of it. So it's very nostalgic when I do this.

Speaker 1 He's 28 now, but now I'm going to go.

Speaker 3 Dana, what is that room that you're in that has no art on the walls?

Speaker 1 Nothing.

Speaker 2 Are you, is it everything must go?

Speaker 1 It's personal. I have

Speaker 1 sleep paralysis. So I have to sleep in an empty house because they'll come for me.

Speaker 1 I have it.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Okay, I have sleep paralysis.
How often?

Speaker 3 I have not had it in a while, but now for a long time, I would have it uh almost every night and i would have it periodically through the night and what's weirder and i don't know if you have this i'm sure this is so interesting to your listeners do you ever have sleep paralysis on an airplane

Speaker 1 No, I can't sleep on an airplane because I'm too terrified. No matter what.
Even

Speaker 1 I just watch the computer and check the violence. But so you go to sleep.

Speaker 3 I sleep like a damn baby on an airplane.

Speaker 1 Well, if you had any other sleep paralysis is basically

Speaker 1 you feel like something's attacking you invisibly in the night or there's a weight on your chest it's like a waking nightmare kind of you can't wake yourself up and yet you think that you're awake like you you see people in the room moving and you're trying desperately to get them to wake you up because you're you're paralyzed yes you can't move and the thing that got me i was at the first time san eucedra ranch in Montecito, whatever, you know, lifestyle is rich and famous.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And just woke up or I was was had that pressure on my chest, like something was crawling on top of me.
And then I kind of went, okay, that was a dream.

Speaker 1 Used the restroom, went back to bed, felt I was as awake as I am right now, and then came back again. Yeah.
But now I talk to it. It's never harmed me.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's a spirit thing or something. Dana, then what did you do? I beat the shit out of it.

Speaker 2 No, you left, didn't you?

Speaker 1 Well, my wife was sound asleep. So I turned to her and said, We have to go now.
It's three in the morning. We have to leave immediately.

Speaker 1 And she's a keeper.

Speaker 1 She's a keeper because she didn't even blink. She's like, okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, honey.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's okay, honey. See, I thought it was just mostly in women.
The women in my family have it.

Speaker 3 My mom has managed through the years to figure out how to get my dad to wake her up, and she does it by singing.

Speaker 1 Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 Well, you're in Nashville. Isn't that full of ghosts out there?

Speaker 1 That's kind of,

Speaker 1 isn't it full of ghosts, like old country singers and stuff? I mean, walking around.

Speaker 3 Civil War, lots of Civil War,

Speaker 3 ghosts in Franklin. Oh, it's never a dull moment down here.
And we live in the rainforest, except for when I.

Speaker 2 Cheryl was in Guitar Center.

Speaker 3 It does look like Guitar Center in here.

Speaker 2 She has 30 guitars behind her.

Speaker 2 Cheryl, I've been to Smashville, and next time I go there, I'm going to make you come down to the Ryman and watch me bomb.

Speaker 3 I'm so mad that you've been here and not called me. I take it very personally.

Speaker 2 You know, the last time I saw you, but you lived somewhere in the canyon. Yeah.
If you had some beautiful house.

Speaker 2 It was like a couple of houses.

Speaker 3 Right next to Runyon Canyon. Okay.
And

Speaker 3 I won't give you the address because somebody else that's kind of high profile lives there now. However, that being said, I used to have wild parties at my house.

Speaker 3 And I don't know if you remember this. And this, I've only been thinking about it lately because.

Speaker 3 of Salmon Rushdie being in the news.

Speaker 3 Not to mention we just played Chautauqua, but so I'm sure you know what happened to Salmon Rushdie. So Minnie Driver and I decided, this is years ago.

Speaker 3 I'm trying to think of what year it would have been.

Speaker 2 Salmon's usually my plus one at parties.

Speaker 2 He is.

Speaker 3 He is.

Speaker 3 He is fascinating. Anyway, we said, let's have a New Year's Eve party together.
And you can invite 40 people and I'll invite 40 people. And that was going to be it.

Speaker 3 And by about 11 at night, there must have been 800 people in my house. And one of them was Salmon Rushdie.
And it was right after his book had come out. And there was a bounty on his head.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 And I'm just like, really?

Speaker 3 Is somebody getting killed here tonight?

Speaker 1 What's happening? Oh, Miss Hollywood.

Speaker 2 Your house was like a bunch. Was it a bunch of little houses or am I crazy?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 there was a big old Spanish house. And then across the driveway, which is the house I bought.
And then right across the driveway on the same property were two other houses that were really old.

Speaker 3 One was built in the 19, uh,

Speaker 3 early 1900s and the other one was built in 1887.

Speaker 3 And the guy who lived in those or who had those two properties and the 11 acres

Speaker 3 wound up selling it to me for, he just needed to get out and kept lowering the price and lowering the price. And so I wound up with all three houses.
And it was just

Speaker 3 magical. But once I adopted my boys, I just didn't want to live in LA anymore.

Speaker 2 Dana, I understand. Dana, I knew Cheryl Suzanne Crowe a little bit.

Speaker 1 You know everybody. His Rolodex is metaphorical Rolodex.

Speaker 3 Dana, we used to run around in the same place.

Speaker 2 No, we did. I knew.

Speaker 1 Oh, what was that peer group? Was it kind of like the little club?

Speaker 1 Courtney, which Courtney Cox.

Speaker 2 The Courtney Cox. And Kid Rock was around.
I was around with Kid Rock because of, it was during the Joe Dirt times when I saw Cheryl the most.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 we call him Bobby, which I don't know. It's kind of gross, but we're always like Bobby, Bob.
But Kid Rock is a buffoon. It's hilarious.
And

Speaker 2 we would all go out, and then I would run into Cheryl with all those other people. And she was always nice, and she was always friendly, and obviously being a superstar, but.

Speaker 2 Had a lot of fun. She has a great voice, and she has a great singing voice, but she has a great voice, too.

Speaker 2 I've heard it. And it was fun.
I just watched your whole documentary. And so it's just weird to have you pop on right after.
Because I finished it this morning.

Speaker 3 Oh, you did?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. It's great.
It's kind of a tear jerker for some reason.

Speaker 1 I have it on in the background right now. I just glance at it.

Speaker 3 It's never a dull moment. It's brilliant.
I mean,

Speaker 3 I put it up there with Top Gun.

Speaker 2 I put it up there with Top Gun Maverick.

Speaker 1 By the way, can we sing Top Gun's praises for 10 seconds? Did you see it?

Speaker 2 I did like Top Gun.

Speaker 3 I don't know if I,

Speaker 3 what?

Speaker 2 Cheryl.

Speaker 1 It's shockingly good. Like, my wife both flipped for it.
It's like

Speaker 1 the new one.

Speaker 3 It was so good.

Speaker 1 Here's how I'm going to connect it and see if you guys connect to this. I connect it to Roman Holiday with Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn.
Interesting. The reason is

Speaker 1 it's done a lot, but they did it better than anyone else.

Speaker 1 You invest in the characters, invest in the story, and then there's seven minutes of Hans Zimmerman soundtrack with kind of people hugging each other and giving thumbs up.

Speaker 1 And that's the part that gets you. Anyway.

Speaker 3 Wow. Okay.
I'm going to go back and watch it. I dragged my boys to see it because they had no, you know, no attachment to Top Gun.

Speaker 3 And I was, yeah, I was kind of skeptical, but I'd heard how great it was and we loved it. I mean, it was such a good old-fashioned plot-driven movie.

Speaker 2 Anyway. How old are the kids?

Speaker 3 My kids are 15 and 12.

Speaker 2 Oh, right in the pocket.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. That's perfect.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they and they seriously don't think I'm cool at all.

Speaker 1 It would be weird if they did. That'd be so funny.
Oh my god, Cheryl Curls cooking me a pancake.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Tell them to watch the documentary.

Speaker 1 They'll say how cool you are.

Speaker 3 Do you think I should let them watch it?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I don't look at it from their eyes, but

Speaker 2 it shows how tough you are, how hard you bust your ass, how good you are.

Speaker 2 First of all, everyone that loves is crazy about you, all these huge, huge stars that rally around you and you're singing with every single one of them.

Speaker 2 I knew you more like a skim job because when you watch the, I used, you know, when I'd see you out, but we, you know, I don't get into all that stuff. And it's so,

Speaker 2 I, I, I have so many more levels to

Speaker 2 your whole life and career. I had no idea about.

Speaker 3 No idea. Ah, well, you know, I think most people, and I'm sure you guys too, you guys have stories that nobody knows anything about.
Like I'm so easy.

Speaker 3 I'm just a fully realized person that's not, you know, that's not covered in the tabloids and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 I find that everybody has a story. Everyone.
Yes. And way way more than you think.
I wouldn't release mine because no one would believe it. They would just laugh me out of the room.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'd like to know the story of Dana Carvey.

Speaker 1 Yeah. When I come to Nashville and we go around all the Main Street and we go in the bars, we see all the incredible bands.
I'll tell you everything you want to know.

Speaker 1 So my new best friend is Cheryl Crow. I just want to make that announcement.

Speaker 2 Yeah, make it clear.

Speaker 1 So you're the thing I got from the documentary, which I recommend to everybody because such such a human story is how hard you worked and how driven you were.

Speaker 1 And then how you, like most people, well, there's certain celebrities I know that are much easier with fame, but how you had a love-hate with that. And talk about that part of

Speaker 1 your drive and yet, why do I want this and stuff like that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I still think fame is a weird, it's a mind, it's a real mind trip. And I didn't really adjust to it very well.

Speaker 3 It for me, instead of it being fun and something I could kind of navigate and manipulate and use to sort of build my brand, which was not the,

Speaker 3 you know, people didn't talk about brand back then.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 3 Instead, for me, it was pressure, you know, it was pressure and it was a source of my,

Speaker 3 I mean, I've always looked at my life as, okay, how am I going to fuck this up? Or,

Speaker 3 you know, that's just how I've always, I've always been sort of uber critical of myself. I don't know why.
But,

Speaker 3 and so fame was just one more avenue for me to

Speaker 3 fall short or embarrass myself. Or, you know, it becomes this thing like suddenly you're invited to the party and you're like with all the cool kids.

Speaker 3 And then you get this weird panic that when is this going to stop? And, oh, I wasn't at that event or I should have been at that or I wasn't included. It's just like, it's

Speaker 3 another level of

Speaker 3 panic. It was for me at least.

Speaker 2 I get re-reminded all the time. You were saying it in the documentary.
You're saying it now. I would like, in tiny ways, you get re-reminded.

Speaker 2 Like you go to the Golden Globes and you're sitting eight rows back where you were the year before. And you're like, is that

Speaker 1 part of this kind of funny?

Speaker 2 There's so many little things you keep getting checked, like where you are in the food chain and Vanity Fair party. They invite you at 9 or 1 a.m.
You're like, wait a second.

Speaker 2 Does that matter? And they're like, well, you can't go and you can't bring a plus one this time. And, or you can, and all that stuff is someone's in a room deciding your fame level.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 they're all, all the pictures of people on the red carpet. And you've like gone out of your way to look hot and you're not in the picture.

Speaker 2 Or they'll say a press announcement of like who came and you're not in those 10 they mentioned.

Speaker 1 You're like, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 Well, I was going to say, and one other thing, I find that I still see my name in the press and it'll be misspelled. Ooh.
And I'll just go, okay.

Speaker 1 Do they misspell Crow or Cheryl? They do a C? Cheryl. They can't get any of it.

Speaker 3 Or sometimes it'll be like an E on the end of crow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Anyway, it's all, that's the part.

Speaker 3 That's the part that was so, once I moved, and especially once my boys came. And really, truth be told, after I got diagnosed with cancer, all that stuff just kind of went.

Speaker 3 out the window and seemed ridiculous, you know?

Speaker 1 That same thing happened to me. It happened to me twice.
Once with a health issue I had botch bypassed, but it feels good now.

Speaker 1 And once when I was picking up my son and he went in for the play date, he's like nine. He comes out.
He has a severely fractured wrist.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. It's just like going at a right angle.
So we had to drive him to the hospital. And in that moment, everything got real clear, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I read this thing recently based on what we're talking about. And I can't believe I even read something recently that would be helpful in terms of getting dinged in show business.

Speaker 1 The people who criticize you are doing less than you. Ooh, I like that.
Isn't it good? Because like we would never judge you. We know what the work that goes in.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't ever think of anybody who's hot or not. I just know they have a story and they're talented and whatever.

Speaker 1 But do you go on social media at all and look around?

Speaker 3 And David's on the show. I'm so, I mean, my assistant's sitting over here.
I'm totally embarrassed. But first of all, I'll say that my kids say I was born in the 1870s.

Speaker 3 I am so not tech, but also I

Speaker 3 have nothing to do with social media. That's not true.
That's not true. I'm involved in my social media, but I don't know how to go on it.
I don't know how to post.

Speaker 3 I hand stuff to Liz and I'll say, can we post about this? This matters. Or,

Speaker 3 but I don't, I just don't do it. My kids don't have social media.

Speaker 3 I already know how my personality is. And there's so much mean stuff on there.
I would be distraught. So.

Speaker 2 How do you get your kids to not, do they want to be on and you don't let them?

Speaker 3 Well, my 15 year old um

Speaker 3 initially about about when he turned 12 started begging me for snapchat

Speaker 3 about 12 and a half and all of his friends had snapchat they didn't have instagram they didn't have uh whatever else that you have what else is there tick didn't have tick tock

Speaker 1 I know I'm sorry, but didn't have TikTok.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 I am weird. I love Upworthy.
Like I love that that I can get with. But anyway, so he asked me for his 14th birthday if he could have Snapchat.

Speaker 3 And I said, oh my gosh, buddy, you don't have to ask for it for your birthday. So he got that.
I mean, that's the weird one because you can't check what they're doing, but there's a thousand ways.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it is sneak chat. There's so many ways, though, to see all the TikTok stuff on YouTube.
And we have all the parameters.

Speaker 1 Friends' house. And, you know,

Speaker 1 you can hard to control.

Speaker 2 My daughter is actually grew up. I don't know where you were in Missouri.
She's in Springfield right now.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 not far.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so she, that's where she's growing up. And so

Speaker 2 I think it's nice.

Speaker 1 It's nice there, right?

Speaker 3 It is nice there. It is.
My brother went to college there.

Speaker 2 And I've tried to keep her there as long as I can in a bubble before she

Speaker 2 comes to stay in L.A. sometimes because I can tell it's just, it's getting scarier and scarier of how terrifying it is for them to open to that world.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but it's kind of that way everywhere.

Speaker 3 I mean, we just have a, we have a rule that you can't be on your phone. You know, can't come and lay down on the couch and be on your phone for, you know, I'm sort of at a 30 minute.

Speaker 3 You can do 30 minutes. Pick your screen.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 I look at my screen time. It says I'm on 22 hours a day.
I'm like, we can pump those numbers up.

Speaker 1 I know they do. They admonish you.
Your phone says you're down. You're down this week.
Your usage is down. It's like, fuck you.
Why aren't you on it more? What's wrong with you?

Speaker 3 What can we do to get you sucked back in?

Speaker 1 Yeah, come on.

Speaker 1 You know, anger really sells, man, and outrage. But I don't look at it.
I get way too sensitive. If I see one negative thing, or were you ever funny? Or whatever they say, I'm kind of bummed out.

Speaker 1 And it makes me mad that I even am affected. But I don't listen or watch anything I do, essentially.
I don't like to see, hear, or feel anything.

Speaker 1 Me neither.

Speaker 3 Me neither. Plus, I'll tell you the one thing about making a documentary when you're 60, right?

Speaker 1 Sexy situation.

Speaker 3 You see all that old. I'm 60.
I turned 60 in February. You see all that old footage of yourself and you still think you're that person.
And then it comes back over to an interview with you.

Speaker 3 And there you are in the chair and you're 60.

Speaker 1 And you, you know,

Speaker 3 I don't want to see it. I don't want to, like, I like to think that I'm still like in my 30s.

Speaker 1 Hey, I'm up the ladder looking down at your age going, not bad. But you're right.
How do we compete? You know, we're all so cute. Everyone is essentially all humans.
All humans are cute.

Speaker 3 We're getting cuter with age.

Speaker 1 In their 20s. Adorable.
Everybody's really cute in their 20s and 30s, but it's hard to, you know, compared to that.

Speaker 2 What about Cheryl Woodstock, Dana? I watched her. She was in the Woodstock one.
I watched it because they said you were on it.

Speaker 3 And so I watched it. 1999, that one?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, wherever you had a full-blown mullet.

Speaker 3 I did. I was wearing.

Speaker 3 Let me just tell you.

Speaker 1 Please.

Speaker 3 This is a total aside. So I have these wonderful hair pieces I can clip in my hair, right?

Speaker 1 Nice.

Speaker 3 Not wearing them now, but if I go on stage or whatever. And I have clipped them on both my boys so that they'll look like Tommy Boy.

Speaker 1 Wait, what?

Speaker 3 I mean, Joe Dirt. Sorry, Joe Dirt.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 There's so many. That's all right.

Speaker 3 Joe Dirt. Yes.

Speaker 1 Joe Dirt is a big Halloween

Speaker 2 costume. Yeah, it is a look.

Speaker 1 That's cool. Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 3 I love it so much. But yeah, that documentary, 1999, the Woodstock is, I watched part of it on the airplane a couple of days ago and I I had to turn it off.
It was so disturbing. And I remember it.

Speaker 3 I remember how awful it was.

Speaker 2 Was it scary for you because it got scarier?

Speaker 2 Like by the time Jewel got on and stuff, it was getting closer and closer to that whole, I remember hearing about it, but when you watch how everyone went bananas, it must have been, I can't believe who would stay.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? It was so bad.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't know. It is interesting that people did stay.
It almost felt like they couldn't leave, but it was, it was debauched from the beginning because we were on the first day

Speaker 3 and we you could look out and you'd see all these girls who were topless on guys' shoulders, you know, trying to get the MTV camera to sweep around in front of them and get on TV. And

Speaker 3 they were already throwing shit

Speaker 3 from the outhouses that were not set up right, that were leaking. And at what point some landed on my hand while I was playing bass during my favorite mistake?

Speaker 3 That's when we stopped. We played about four songs and i i remember saying not not not gonna do it not gonna do it not gonna die letting me prove

Speaker 1 i don't normally do characters on the podcast but not gonna do it feces

Speaker 1 on the bass

Speaker 3 bad anyway well that's uh that's a good uh gig story yeah yeah i've got a few of those that that was a highlight though we went on after andy dick

Speaker 3 and then so that tells you what the vibe was Yeah, that's he went on after Insane Clown Posse. So we were.

Speaker 2 Oh, who was going after them?

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 3 We were like, is this our, is this our crowd?

Speaker 1 What'd you open with a lineup?

Speaker 1 Did you come out with a rocker? How'd you try to follow Andy Dick?

Speaker 3 I think we came out with If It Makes You Happy. I mean, that was our weapon.

Speaker 1 That is a weapon.

Speaker 2 Is that your one to go to?

Speaker 1 You have a lot of anthems. You have a lot, a lot of anthems.

Speaker 2 God, look through her shit. I was like going, look at that song.
Oh, my God. Because I love leaving Las Vegas and it came up my iTunes the other day knowing.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 And it was without my phone knowing I was, you know, we were going to talk this week.

Speaker 3 Or did it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, did it. Yeah, that's really the question.
And that's a monster at that beginning bass. And great song.
There's a huge story about it in your documentary. And then

Speaker 2 also, and then you keep going and going. Your first Letterman,

Speaker 2 backup for Michael Jackson. Just getting that, you kind of skimmed over that in

Speaker 2 audition for Michael Jackson. How in Godscreen Earth did you sneak in an audition where they didn't go, your name's not on this list.
You were just cute. You ran in and said, I'm next.

Speaker 3 It's weird.

Speaker 3 I did a few sessions out there with, I started to get a little bit of work singing jingles, you know, the songs that are in commercials for those that don't know.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I think because I was the new kid in town, I started to get some work and started getting hired and was on a couple of sessions with the same guys.

Speaker 3 One of them was Daryl Finnessy, who's a fantastic singer.

Speaker 3 And actually, it was for John, one of them was for Johnny Mathis. And

Speaker 3 I overheard him talking to another singer about the Jackson tour. So

Speaker 3 I asked about it and

Speaker 3 you had to be recommended by Bruce Sweden or Quincy Jones or Rod Temperton. And of course, I didn't know any of those people.

Speaker 3 I think I'd been in town maybe six months when I first started getting work.

Speaker 3 And I found out where it was and I drove out. It was at a rehearsal space.
I want to say SIR, but I don't think they have that in LA. I can't remember what it was called.

Speaker 3 Drove there and thought, well, what's the worst thing that can happen? So I went and I knocked on the door and

Speaker 3 they let me in. They asked me what my name was.
I said, I'm Cheryl Crowe. I am not recommended, but I overheard Daryl Finnessy.
I mean, I told them straight up. It's good you threw in some.

Speaker 3 And they said, well, come on in. And they put me on video first

Speaker 3 um

Speaker 3 and i said hey michael my name is cheryl crow i just moved here i was an elementary school teacher um i'm out here doing sessions and would love a chance to go on the road and sing backup for you or whatever and then i i got a call from daryl and he

Speaker 3 he put me with um a couple of other singers and we went in and sang together and they hired us now was this supposed to be backup or were we supposed to sing backup idea Okay.

Speaker 1 No backup singer.

Speaker 2 But you eventually were doing stuff singing with me.

Speaker 3 Well, he had two or three songs that featured

Speaker 3 females. Like one of them was Man in the Mirror, which was Saida Garrett on the record.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Oh, and I Can't Stop Loving You was also, was that also Said?

Speaker 3 Don't stop loving. Yeah, that one.

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Speaker 1 It's interesting when we see you like here at home now, and you're Cheryl and sweet, personable.

Speaker 1 But when I watch you with Jagger and Michael Jackson, okay, so like these Titans, and you're just like going for it. I mean, it is kind of a, it's a personality you put on it.

Speaker 1 It's fierce and rock starry. I mean, what, how that transition? I mean, who was tougher? Jagger

Speaker 1 or Michael? To like keep in their face? Because they're both really aggressive, dancing with you, and you're right, right up on top of them. It's very cool to see.

Speaker 3 Mick Jagger was, I mean, he was far more terrifying for sure. I mean, I'd grown up with that guy, right? I had grown up with the sticky fingers record and zipping the zipper.

Speaker 3 I mean, they were like dangerous,

Speaker 3 like edgy.

Speaker 3 And they had all this folklore around them, you know? And, um, and

Speaker 3 by the time I got to sing with them,

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 I'd seen them live a handful of times. I mean, that was like, that was the bomb.
I was so afraid and I threw up all day. I was a nervous wreck.

Speaker 3 And I think I even talked about the documentary about Bobby Keys handing me a bottle of tequila right before I went on.

Speaker 1 A bottle.

Speaker 3 Have a shot of courage. And the next thing I know, I'm out there with them.
And

Speaker 3 yeah, I mean, it's, it's a funny thing. And I know you guys know this too.
It's like you have, you have this side that has to, has to show up and be fearless.

Speaker 3 But then you also, I don't know if you guys are like this. As soon as you walk off stage, you go, oh my God, I suck.
Or I sucked. Or that was, you know, I want to do it again.

Speaker 3 I wish I could, you know, and it's, it's that, that

Speaker 3 sort of balance between

Speaker 1 stepping into it and then coming away from it and being able to just put it away without rehashing it with your with all the voices that are in your head that tell you you suck do you i mean i sometimes do it later on i mean when you came off from jagger really in that moment did you think i just sucked or did you feel kind of cool obviously the first faces are crew guys or whatever and they have a range of compliments hey and sometimes they'll change it midway or nothing hey that was really or nothing that was really great good you know they go

Speaker 1 you get these little messages and then if you get someone really high bro you crushed it you crushed it. You know, and then later, hours later, I would think, ah, fuck, I missed that.
I rushed that.

Speaker 1 So that.

Speaker 3 It's a funny, you know, it's a, it's a funny thing.

Speaker 3 That was such an out-of-body experience that it was hard to even relate to it. And then compound that with,

Speaker 3 I mean, literally, we were, we didn't even have a hit yet. I mean, all I want to do had come out and it was starting to happen.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 I couldn't even process process it.

Speaker 3 But, you know, my nature has always been to

Speaker 3 not think I'm good enough.

Speaker 3 You know, and I guess that's part of what propels you to work so hard is that you feel like whatever you're doing is never as great as the Rolling Stones or never as great as Stevie Nick's or not even as great as you think you should or could be.

Speaker 3 And it's taken me years really to grapple with that. And, you know, there's also, you know, you talk about the mental

Speaker 3 um

Speaker 3 challenges that go along with being an artist or or or somebody who puts themselves out there that shows up

Speaker 3 um you know i i spent a little time with um

Speaker 3 robin williams uh her the years and you look at somebody like that who can open himself up and be so beautifully funny and so just exceedingly happy yeah but then in their real life you know they're struggling and that's that's the story of a lot of us.

Speaker 1 I got to know Robin quite a bit. I've known, I knew him since the 70s.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I got to know him when we were both up here in Marin County for the last five years.

Speaker 1 And part of what I feel about him is like his shyness and his vulnerability. He would call me boss, but he was my idol.
And then his powerhouse on stage.

Speaker 1 And really, he created this idea of a Shakespearean actor just showing up. And it was just a brilliant concept of like, oh, hey, whoo, whoo, and you never knew where he was going to go, you know.

Speaker 1 One thing I wanted to ask you, Cheryl, but David's going to ask a question first. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 No, I have a question about what to say to people when they get off stage. So I did the, God, why do I think you were here? Andre, Andre Agassi

Speaker 2 Charity in Vegas. Maybe you weren't there.
So it's I might have been there. All these stars go on, right? Okay, it's comedy.
Yeah. It was me.
I was at the table with Ray Romano.

Speaker 2 I thought you were at my table. Why do I even think this? Anyway, I was there.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you were there.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 That's the night I met Lance Armstrong.

Speaker 1 Okay, can I? Interesting. My next question.
That's part two. Part two of the interview.
Okay, I'll whiz through this story first because this one sucks.

Speaker 2 So there, there's, so they go, Ray's there, and you're there.

Speaker 2 We're all this tape, whatever. They go, okay, you're going to go up, then Cheryl, then remember, remember.
So I have to go up before Ray, and I go after.

Speaker 2 Do you remember there was like an 11-year-old phenom singer from like American Idol or something?

Speaker 3 Yes, I do. Yes, I do.

Speaker 2 So they go, she's only doing one song or something. So I'm waiting in the wings and she goes up and she does like, I will always love you or something.
And she gets a standing ovation

Speaker 2 and she walks off and I go, hey, get him next time.

Speaker 2 And then she goes, what? Because I had to get in her fucking head, Cheryl, because you know what? She blew me off the stage and I hate. I couldn't follow her.
So I'm like, hey, tough crowd, huh?

Speaker 2 And she's like, what?

Speaker 1 I love your honesty. I love your honesty.
It is new.

Speaker 2 11 years old. I got to get in there and let her know what's going on, man.
And so then I went out.

Speaker 3 She's been in therapy ever since.

Speaker 2 She's like, didn't I get a standing home bass?

Speaker 1 She never sang again.

Speaker 2 Isn't that good? I'm like,

Speaker 2 so then I got up. First of all, that was embarrassing.
And then I get up and then I bomb. And then I come down.
And I say to Ray Romano, just like comedian to comedian. I go, hey, listen, you're next.

Speaker 2 Listen, the tables are really far apart. They can't hear you in the front.
There's kids in in the back. There's a bar over here.
It's just, it's the worst case scenario.

Speaker 2 He gets up and kills for 20 minutes straight. And I was like, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 After I just explained why he's going to bomb, and there's absolutely no way to do well here. He doesn't go down for anybody.

Speaker 1 Have you ever, Cheryl, when I've seen you sing on this documentary, and it seems like you, if you have nerves, they never affect your voice.

Speaker 1 Like if you're terrified with Jagger, you don't hit a bad note, do you, in the whole thing? I mean, that's just more mathematical, right? You don't hit a bad note.

Speaker 3 I've bombed, I have bombed before, I promise. In fact, I can remember doing a tribute.
I think it might have been, I feel like Neil Young was on it. I don't know.
It was a music cares thing.

Speaker 3 And I thought I knew the song, but I didn't know it very well. And I got up and literally could not think of a single word and sang practically the whole song, making up crap.

Speaker 3 And I remember coming off stage and John Sykes, who was the head of

Speaker 3 the head of VH1, saying something about, wow, I don't know if I've ever heard that ring before.

Speaker 3 Yes, I have definitely had moments of bombing.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. I've had deft-to-fine bombs.

Speaker 1 I've done corporate work occasionally. I worked at a gun show,

Speaker 1 and all these guys were eating steaks with their backs to me, and they would just take my bite and kind of look up. But, you know, they pay you so much, you have to do those.

Speaker 2 Comedians Comedians are easy. They throw you anywhere.
But I'm jealous of musicians because corporate gigs can be tough.

Speaker 2 And then, but with musicians, you can sort of, even if you bomb in quotes, you just say yours, you just do your song. The in-between is kind of awkward because it's crickets.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But we're doing every line. We're getting feedback that it's not working.

Speaker 1 It's not. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Oh, I cannot. I just can't imagine being a comedian.
And I love, I love the art form. I love comedians.
And David, I've never seen you bomb. You've always made me laugh.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's nice.

Speaker 2 But you're a sweet person. And no, no, that's the truth.

Speaker 3 I just can't imagine.

Speaker 3 We did a corporate gig. No, no, no.
We did a virtual gig

Speaker 3 during the pandemic. And I've never done one of those where you do a concert.

Speaker 2 In front of like nothing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 There's no like in between songs. It's like, okay, you hit that big last chord and then it's just crickets.

Speaker 3 It's like playing in Japan.

Speaker 2 You look over and there's some guy on the side just texting. He's like, works here.
He's like, go on, do your next song.

Speaker 1 I call it comedy waterboarding. I did one with Tony Robbins, and he was interviewing me on the Zoom, and he was so enthusiastic.
And he had a global audience and all these screens.

Speaker 1 And I would do Tony Fauci or something and go, give it up from Dana Carvey. And then there'd be two minutes of music and I would just be dancing in my room.

Speaker 1 No laughs. Woo! Yeah.
You know,

Speaker 1 I love Tony. But

Speaker 1 I was gonna ask you, so you, the one thing about being hard on yourself and you're still around doing great stuff is that we have data now and there is something about lasting, you know, and putting out cool stuff.

Speaker 1 And it seems to me that when you really got into this super celebrity thing, it was when you were already exploding as a superstar and then you're dating another superstar.

Speaker 1 And that's when when the tabloids went 10.0, right?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And, you know, I think interestingly enough, I have dated people before that were well known, but there was something about that combo

Speaker 3 that was

Speaker 3 just

Speaker 1 ripe for fodder.

Speaker 3 Yeah. It was, yeah, I mean, it's like, I mean, I wouldn't put myself with JLo and A-Rod, like way up there.
But, you know, a combo like that is,

Speaker 3 it's tutilating, I guess.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, because there was Owen. Hey, how's it going?

Speaker 1 Oh, you know, love Owen.

Speaker 2 Well, Owen's the coolest dude.

Speaker 3 I still communicate with Owen. I absolutely love him.
Hey,

Speaker 3 just, you know, and I, I mean, I've been really fortunate. And I don't really have anything bad to say about Lance at all.

Speaker 3 Um, I have been really fortunate to be with the people that I've been with, and I wouldn't change it, you know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think.

Speaker 3 But I will say one thing. I did dream last night that that I married Brad Pitt.

Speaker 1 You must know Brad pretty well. That's a good plan.

Speaker 3 I do know him pretty well. You know, I went to college with him.

Speaker 1 Oh, you really?

Speaker 1 Did the girls all love him then? Or what was he like?

Speaker 3 Well, you know, it's really funny. He's a year younger than me.

Speaker 3 And I was the

Speaker 3 song or the song leader at his fraternity, Sigma Company.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 Really? So I went over and I would work with them with their, their,

Speaker 3 we had, I can't what was called, Greek weed or whatever.

Speaker 1 So I was like, their coach or whatever.

Speaker 3 But I knew him from campus running around. I knew the girl he was dating.
And

Speaker 3 you're always friendly. He's from Springfield where your daughter is.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Always friendly. And I've seen him through the years.
He's a good dude.

Speaker 2 I swear he sort of takes an odd beating out there over this divorce thing that never ends, but he's, I've never seen him not be cool to people, not be nice to people.

Speaker 2 He seems like the most down-to-earth.

Speaker 1 He is big.

Speaker 3 He's a nice person.

Speaker 2 Big of a star as he is. He gives everybody time.
I don't know how he does it. And then, but he keeps getting roughed up.
I mean,

Speaker 2 that's a divorce for you, I guess. I don't know.

Speaker 1 The energy around someone like Brad Pitt, and I think part of his shyness or reclusiveness, and he's not really readily available.

Speaker 1 And it almost, like Clooney was with Matt Damon and Brad Pitt, and they're at some film festival in Europe. And Clooney just said, like, he and Damon just disappear as soon as Brad Pitt showed up.

Speaker 1 So, this other level of being a true sex symbol and a really brilliant actor is just this 10.0.

Speaker 3 Well, David, you know how that is.

Speaker 1 Being a sex symbol is very strong.

Speaker 1 Cheryl, I'm glad you're David and the ladies have a nice arrangement.

Speaker 2 It's a struggle.

Speaker 2 But, you know, the truth is, also, when you're dating, like you were saying, if you date someone in the business, like you almost have to date someone like an Owen, because, like that song even says, are you strong enough?

Speaker 2 Like, first of all, the tabloids don't care when you date a normal person. So it's not as big of a deal.
And people think you're not even dating. They don't know what's going on.

Speaker 2 And then they only jump on it if it's someone they know and they, and like together it equals like five stars.

Speaker 2 It's like two celebrities equal five. So

Speaker 2 it's like you see these people on like reality shows. Together they make one actual star.
So that's why they always date each other. Someone from the bachelor dates someone from this one.

Speaker 1 Well, the cynic kind of thinks,

Speaker 1 is it an arrangement, David? Is it sort of like, hey, let's date for three months? Are we going to all explode? You two should get together for some months.

Speaker 3 That's why I'm going to marry Brad Pitt because I feel like that'll put me actually at

Speaker 3 least a five.

Speaker 1 Oh, you'd be huge. You'd be a good one.
No, you two guys.

Speaker 2 People couldn't deal with it.

Speaker 1 That'd be crazy. I love my life.

Speaker 3 I don't want to get married. I love my life.

Speaker 1 You don't want to get married? That's crazy.

Speaker 3 No, I would just want to sleep around.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Now let's unpack the last part of our podcast.

Speaker 3 I'm going to make sure my kids listen to this podcast. Yeah, good.

Speaker 1 Hey, you know, women should own their sexuality. They should be able to do that too.

Speaker 3 They should, but I got to be honest with you. Nine o'clock at night.
Yeah. I'm like, that's like, yeah, that's REM sleep for me at 9.30.
I'm out.

Speaker 2 If the guy's ready to rally from 8.50 to 9, if it's not in that window, beat it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't, I'm with you, Cheryl. During the pandemic, I just went to bed early, got up early.
It's hard for a nightclub performer when you get up at 5.30 and the show's at 10 that night.

Speaker 1 You have to wait. Well, 19 hours.

Speaker 1 But I like to do that.

Speaker 2 In Vegas, me and Dana did this show, and

Speaker 2 I do it usually. And then he covered for me once.
And he's like, this thing's at fucking 10, dude? I know, I know. And then we do a Q ⁇ A at the end.
So it's at like, you get off by midnight.

Speaker 2 I go, is that, that's too late, right? And he's like, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I go, what am I doing? I like seven o'clock shows. I really, at this age, I just like, I don't want to

Speaker 1 party.

Speaker 1 You also, I was going to say, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 No, I won't ask you about this, but that ask me anything. No, it's not that exciting.

Speaker 2 No, I'm not. I'm not.

Speaker 2 I'm, I, I, first of all, like that when, in the special, when you said driven is sort of a negative to women, but I think that it's nice in this day and age when no one really seems to want to work or work hard that that seems like a trophy to say I was, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 You wear it like a medal, like I'm driven, meaning I actually want to bust my ass and try really hard to get in a business where it seems like every year that goes by, that that's not how it works anymore.

Speaker 2 People want to be given things or people want to jump ahead a lot easier and they don't want to work or they don't have to work.

Speaker 2 And so I love watching that when people put in the hours because it is a hard job to get right. And if you take it seriously, whether it's stand-up or that or any sort of writing, you write and

Speaker 2 do it all and you perform, that that's like something to be so proud of. And it's weird when people give it to you like it's a negative.
That's a hard thing to take.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 I think for women, you know, the idea of an ambitious woman is such a turn off.

Speaker 1 Like, for instance.

Speaker 3 You know, well, it's like a woman gets called like a bitch.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 I can remember when,

Speaker 3 I mean, this goes way back, but what was the woman? Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 3 Who ran for president years ago?

Speaker 1 Sarah Palin or vice president.

Speaker 3 Oh, no, no, this is way, way. I want to say Kafara, but it's not that.
But anyway,

Speaker 3 about, there was always a discussion about her, how ambitious she was and how.

Speaker 3 unlikable, you know, that kind of thing. And I, I don't know, I, I, I still find that is, is problematic when you have ambitious men and it's such an admirable trait, but for a woman to be ambitious.

Speaker 3 And let's face it, you know, if you are the head of a company or if you're a politician or a successful woman in general,

Speaker 3 you have some ambition. And that ambition is fed by, hopefully, the desire.
to be really good at something and the love of doing that something. And that, you know, that's

Speaker 3 that question you were just asking, David, about people not wanting to work hard.

Speaker 3 I mean, even in raising my boys, I keep having to say to them, look, if you're going to do this, you want to dedicate your energy and your time.

Speaker 3 And you're blessed to have resources to be good at this thing that you love.

Speaker 3 Because it's not all about the end product. And it's, I don't know where we're off.
Like where. When I was growing up, everybody was middle class.
There was no, you know, people weren't rich.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so I grew up idolizing all these amazing musicians and bands. And I felt like I didn't, it wasn't about being famous.
It was about being great. You know what I mean? So I don't know where we're off.

Speaker 3 I guess it's really easy to

Speaker 3 be famous and it's really easy to get rich.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So nobody really wants to. They don't equate work with becoming famous or work with becoming rich.

Speaker 1 It just changed and it's not anyone's fault. But we, when you were really, when you're on television as Frank Sinatra or whoever or Stevie Nix, they were just really great.

Speaker 1 And now, because of social media and instant hits and stuff, and it's very demoralizing for young people when they see, and I do a joke, a guy who opens pickles jars and is making seven figures.

Speaker 1 All right, my name's Steve. Today we're going to open some nice deals, you know, and he's making seven figures on YouTube, yeah.
YouTube and monetization.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's good.

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Speaker 1 Interesting enough,

Speaker 1 this comes back to you. So the corporations of the big music publishing companies are now buying artist catalogs.
They obviously got Springsteen, they got this.

Speaker 1 They're not so much buying the more modern product because these anthems, these big songs really monetize well going generationally.

Speaker 1 You know, like your hits, you know, could are just right here right now, strong enough. I mean, they're just...

Speaker 1 if it makes you happy, all those. So

Speaker 1 have you been approached or have you sold your catalog?

Speaker 3 Well, I sold my catalog,

Speaker 3 not my songwriters, but I sold my catalog about three albums ago because everything was going to streaming.

Speaker 3 And we were approached with the idea that they would start getting placement so that the songs would be heard more,

Speaker 3 but I wouldn't lose my songwriters. So I didn't get the...
the giant chunk that like a spring scene or

Speaker 2 you know bob dylan or whatever what's a songwriter mean, though?

Speaker 3 What do you mean? Um, so you get paid for the um

Speaker 3 you get paid for publishing and you get paid your songwriter. So, I split my songwriter with whoever I write my song with.
And if I don't write it with somebody, then I take 100% of the songwriters

Speaker 3 fee or whatever, the money that comes in. So, when it goes through ASCAP or BMI or wherever it is,

Speaker 3 some of it goes to the publishing company, some of it goes to the songwriter.

Speaker 3 But it's interesting now because everything is streaming.

Speaker 3 You know, we make a penny or maybe two pennies every time a song is streamed. So

Speaker 3 how much of a penny do you get paid for the songwriter?

Speaker 3 It's nothing. I mean, 100% of a penny is still going to be a penny, you know?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 3 it's all, it's just ridiculous. And I don't know.
I mean, I love that Bruce and and Neil and all these people are making hundreds of millions of dollars, but I go

Speaker 3 I don't know. I mean, it's sort of like Bitcoin to me.

Speaker 2 Do you mean like how does the people that buy it make it back?

Speaker 3 Because it's so it's is it overpaying well I guess what they do is they sell the right to use that song in a commercial.

Speaker 2 They're out there to try to sell it to make money with movies and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 Right. And that's why maybe the album is kind of over for now in a way.

Speaker 1 I mean, you're going to release more like just batches of songs or are you I'm going to release batches of songs, but I mean, that's not for everybody.

Speaker 3 For me, like I said, I'm 60.

Speaker 2 Is the new term batches?

Speaker 1 Pancakes. You're going to do batches of songs.

Speaker 3 Like batch one. Yeah, batch half.

Speaker 1 The promised land.

Speaker 2 I liked in the Dana in the documentary, remember, I think it was toward the end

Speaker 2 where

Speaker 2 she said.

Speaker 2 You came out to somewhere. Maybe it was Bonnaroo.
Where is Bonnaroo in Tennessee or something? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And the people weren't there yet, but by the time you went on, first of all, when you said four o'clock, I was like, I was at one of those festivals and it was like, Norm McDonald went on at noon.

Speaker 2 I went on at, I luckily went on before Tom Petty, which is great. But it was kind of nighttime.
But there were very weird times we went on.

Speaker 1 It was like all day.

Speaker 2 But you went on, the place was packed. And then you said this whole new generation, when you went to, I think, If It Makes You Happy, which is one of your big mongo hits, that they all knew it.

Speaker 2 And that's cool. That's the coolest thing is that it keeps going.

Speaker 2 It's for me like someone seeing seeing a movie or something that they, a new generation knows it, and you can't believe how would you even see it?

Speaker 2 Because that's something people like. People don't listen to radio.
You go, oh, here's a new Cheryl Crowe song, or here's an old one.

Speaker 2 Someone had to tell them or something, and they all know all the words.

Speaker 1 It's very cool.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 it's funny because about maybe five years ago, my manager started talking about, and now you're a legacy artist. And I'm like, oh, that's like, okay, I've got my ARP card.

Speaker 3 I'm a legacy artist.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm trying to be.

Speaker 3 But it's kind of cool. Yeah.
I mean, people's kids have grown up. I mean, like, I know Burt Bacharach and I know,

Speaker 3 of course, obviously another Rolling Stones. But I mean, I grew up with parents that played music.
And all this generation is growing up with parents who grew up with my music.

Speaker 1 It is.

Speaker 3 It's a rarefied place to be. It's, you know, it's awesome.

Speaker 1 Some high school kid today, boy or girl, is going to listen to my Favorite Mistake today for the first time and become possessed by it.

Speaker 1 I mean, I notice in your songwriting, which is kind of cool.

Speaker 1 Brandy Carlisle talked about it.

Speaker 1 You're doing these major chords or just this setup. And then it goes in unexpected places.

Speaker 1 I'm not a musicologist, but it seems to go minor or weird that the second parts of your songs are so explosively different. And the setup is kind of,

Speaker 1 I don't know. I mean, how do you write a melody like that part for my, my favorite mistake? Because that's such a cool melody, weird, you know.

Speaker 3 I don't know, but I will say, I,

Speaker 3 I'm, I love, I'm so proud of my references. Like, I loved the Beatles so much.

Speaker 3 What?

Speaker 3 I know. I'm guilty.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Love the Beatles.

Speaker 3 And that documentary just, uh, I mean, I binge watched it and then I re-watched the last episode.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it, you know, I think a lot of a lot of stuff that i wind up writing is osmosis i mean

Speaker 3 you know um i don't know what it's like to write jokes because it seems like i mean i'm sure you guys grew up with george carlin and um

Speaker 3 uh richard pryer all the all the greats and i'm sure same thing same thing yeah So you get a like a

Speaker 3 cadence or, you know, you, you do what they do for a while. And then you go, okay, how now you start hopefully transitioning to who you are and that becomes your thing

Speaker 1 but you're still standing on the shoulders of all the the dudes that wrote the book right you're like a research paper of your favorite people and then you start turning into your own yeah this is a horrible question to ask but what peatles songs kind of speak to you like off off the top of your head that you really liked okay i'll just start here there and everywhere i here there and everywhere I mean, that song is amazing.

Speaker 3 And then you hear Emily Lou Harris do it and you go, that song is amazing again. Yes.
I mean, that's why their songs are so great. Yesterday is one of my favorite songs.

Speaker 3 Long and Winding Road is one of my favorite songs.

Speaker 3 Love by John Lennon is one of my favorite songs.

Speaker 1 Oh, I got married.

Speaker 3 There's so much good stuff in there. I mean, get back.

Speaker 3 Come together. I mean, just.

Speaker 3 you know, but definitely Blackbird and Yesterday to me are the two of the greatest songs ever written.

Speaker 2 When we did

Speaker 2 talk to, we got lucky to talk to Paul, but he said, was it yesterday where he says, when he goes, when he brings it in, do you bring it in and go, I got a winner?

Speaker 1 And he goes,

Speaker 2 no, you can't. You have to walk in and go, hey, I did a new one.
If you guys want to hear it. And then he said, Ringo said,

Speaker 2 I can't put any drums on that. And then John said, I can't put any more guitar on it.
And they said, what if we put strings? And he said, no.

Speaker 1 That was George Martin.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And he said, no, it's, we're rock and roll.
We don't want strings on it. And I go, oh, we get a little bit of the process.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was interesting, Cheryl. And we can cut this out if it overlaps.
But we did get to talk to Paul, and we were both very nervous. I was on the road in Wyoming with my family in Montana.

Speaker 1 But anyway,

Speaker 1 he,

Speaker 1 once we started talking about get back, he really lit up. And I asked him, did John ever thank you for your bass lines?

Speaker 1 And that was like a big thing for him.

Speaker 1 Well, we found our way to come together. And he talked about how John just had one line, Here Come Old Flat Top, which was a a Chuck Berry song he had to pay for later.

Speaker 1 And then he kind of teased it out of him that he wrote that opener. He said to Joan, we got to have an opener.
We can't just go right in. So that became,

Speaker 1 so I go, Paul, that's one of the beautiful

Speaker 1 openings of a song ever. And then later on, he had said, We wrote it face to face.
Because he comes in, even though it's so Lennon-y, Paul comes in with one or cracker. He got Juju Eyeball.

Speaker 1 So Paul, his comprehensive musicality, I think just influenced the band. His fingerprints were every, like, because he could do the percussion.
He had a four octave range, seeing all the harmonies.

Speaker 1 He could play

Speaker 1 all the keyboards and all the guitars. So anyway, interesting

Speaker 1 interview. And I couldn't sleep for a week after that because I kept thinking of what I should have asked.

Speaker 3 I see. I would have just loved to have been.

Speaker 3 in the room.

Speaker 1 Fly on the wall. Listening.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Listening to you guys interview him because that was one of the things about the documentary that um me not to be like um all woo-woo and stuff but

Speaker 3 watching them in the room and and

Speaker 3 the the musicality of all four of those guys like ringo never played anything that didn't feel exactly perfect and right for the song yep for the song uh

Speaker 3 Paul, I mean, everything he played was not just tasteful, but it was like unique and memorable. I mean, there was so much happening.
His, his interplay, even the tension between he and George, all of,

Speaker 3 and then the combination of him and John. I know I'm going on, I'm going somewhere with you.

Speaker 1 We love to talk about that.

Speaker 3 I mean, I am so, I so believe that there is an energetic

Speaker 3 component to the universe that brings that together. I mean, because

Speaker 3 there are too many

Speaker 3 instances where you just go, where in the world did that come from? Or even when you write a song and you go, okay, like my favorite mistake, I felt that way after that song. I felt like, okay,

Speaker 3 I don't know where that came from. And also, I feel like it's already been written because it feels so complete.

Speaker 1 Such a great movie.

Speaker 3 There are moments where you go, okay, you can't define what creativity is. Yeah, you can't really define what inspiration is.

Speaker 3 But it is a real thing. And that to me is like, okay, that's just God.
I mean, however you want to define that energy that is unique to you.

Speaker 3 And I watched that in that documentary, that energy that no matter what was happening between them, it all was part of the outcome. I don't know.

Speaker 3 I just, I guess the older I get, the more I get into the idea that these things aren't accidents. You're tapping into something.

Speaker 1 Well, Dennis Miller, who's a big Beatle fan, he said it this way to me. He goes,

Speaker 1 I can understand, you know, Led Zeppelin, okay? I get Pink Floyd, or, you know, you two and all of that. But for the life of me, I can't understand the Beatles.
How does that happen?

Speaker 1 And it's lightning in a bottle. What was sweet about it, Cheryl, and it'll be on the podcast, is that

Speaker 1 he still has this love of John. And

Speaker 1 he loved that. that he you could see them joking around with each other.

Speaker 1 Even though John was taking the piss out of him a little bit, there was a bit of a competition going on because Paul had long and windy road. He was on this upswing.
It had a ton of songs.

Speaker 1 And John had to bring across the universe to the album, which is insane. So

Speaker 1 it's like a left. It's a right.
It's too much. I mean, if the amount of him.

Speaker 2 You can retire off that one alone.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 If he just wrote here, there, and everywhere, he'd be a famous person. But I can see your influence in a good way, but you have your own Sheryl Crow brand.
But I think you do write songs.

Speaker 1 I'm sure if you've met Paul, and I'm sure he's a fan of your music. That's pretty trippy, right?

Speaker 3 I don't know. I don't know if he is or not, but I did.
It's kind of funny. I did meet him when I was doing Fallon in the NBC building.
And it's funny because

Speaker 3 I have so many memories. I mean, certainly from doing Saturday Night Live.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's right. Being in that building and getting to meet people, you know,

Speaker 2 three times on SNL, Cheryl Crowe.

Speaker 3 Three times on SNL.

Speaker 2 That's a hard one to do. They have so the choice of anyone at all times, and to get Aspect 3.

Speaker 3 I had to sleep with Lauren like 11 times.

Speaker 2 Oh, I've been there.

Speaker 1 What did Lauren say to you?

Speaker 2 I'm still sleeping with him. I don't know why.
I don't even know, just I'm in the habit.

Speaker 1 So you'll be doing If It Makes You Happy, and that'll be your first song.

Speaker 2 Maybe something we've heard of.

Speaker 1 Maybe

Speaker 2 the second song you pick, Dealer's Choice.

Speaker 1 Here's what Paul said to me about you, Cheryl. You know, I go, Paul, who do you like Contemporary.
Well, you know, I like Cheryl Crowe, you know.

Speaker 1 She's got a good thumper. She's got a good, you know, bassy and got his guitars and harmonies.
She's a big vocal, a big voicer. Sorry.

Speaker 3 You didn't say that.

Speaker 2 Don't. She's freaking out.
Don't.

Speaker 3 I'm freaking out just going, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 I'm sure he loves you.

Speaker 3 I wish I would have recorded that and then posted it like he actually did say that.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, if it makes you happy, why are you so sad? You know, it's one of those turns John and I would do. It's like a big old course, you know, makes you happy.

Speaker 1 You think, oh, it makes you happy. Then why are you so sad? It takes the carpet out, you know, and that keeps the gun going, you know.
It gets you all wheely-jilly. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'll do it all day.

Speaker 3 That's incredible. That sounds, that's incredible.

Speaker 1 I do it just to be with Paul McCartney.

Speaker 3 Will you call my voicemail and just leave that on there for me so I can use it? Mrs.

Speaker 1 Paul, Paul McCarthy.

Speaker 3 Philly's not here right now. I can't do it.

Speaker 2 But Dana, I got to tell Cheryl before we let her leave and go back to the.

Speaker 1 She doesn't want to leave. She wants to talk about it.

Speaker 2 She doesn't want to leave.

Speaker 1 I don't.

Speaker 2 I don't want to leave. I have to tell her that when I'm looking over these songs, first of all, I like that

Speaker 2 I'm trying to look at my favorite ones just for absolutely no reason. But if it makes you happy, I like that you work in Mosquito in that one because it's hard to get into songs.

Speaker 3 Surely unused pop word.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's very, very underused.

Speaker 2 And I have to say, and this is a dumb story, but when I was

Speaker 2 with Kid Rock, one of his albums came out, out, and this is where we're hanging out more. And he goes, I think he was up against pink when it came out.

Speaker 2 I don't know why I remember this. This is probably a lie.
But

Speaker 2 so he's driving. You can attest to this.
If you're in a car with him, he's playing his album. If you're in his house, he's playing his album.

Speaker 2 If you're anywhere, he's playing a video of himself. So

Speaker 2 he goes, you got to hear the new album. And I go, oh, and then he played the whole, the whole thing.
So I don't know as much about music as you or Dana.

Speaker 1 I don't know anything. Dana knows a lot.
Not as the film.

Speaker 2 So he plays the songs and he goes, this one's the one that comes out first. And then this one and then this one.
And then fucking Picture comes on. And I know nothing, Cheryl.

Speaker 2 And I go, that's fucking great. And I go play that one again.
And he goes, it's with Cheryl. And I go,

Speaker 2 God damn, that's catchy. That is so good.
And she's so good in it.

Speaker 2 And he goes, well, that's going to come later. And if I'm not mistaken,

Speaker 2 the first two songs did okay. And then Picture blew the the fuck up.
Is that possible?

Speaker 1 It explodes, it's so good. It's and you know what he said, which is funny.

Speaker 3 He said

Speaker 3 after you recorded it, he said, That's gonna go to number one.

Speaker 1 I was like, Really? Oh, that's so cool!

Speaker 3 And he's like, That's gonna go to number one.

Speaker 2 I'm telling you, it pops up my iPod all the time, and it's so fucking good. And you're so great in it.
And I just go, God. And I know he takes a beating out there, but he can sing, man.

Speaker 2 He gets these, he gets it right. And that one, he got right.
And he's got a lot of great shit out there.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 and um how did that happen he knew he had it and came to you or you had it came to him or what happened oh no he had it in fact i didn't write nearly as much on that as he did i mean and he's he's super uh like when he's in the studio he is fearless man i mean he has listened to so much great music and can play a lot of things and

Speaker 3 um

Speaker 2 you know he he's really masterful at getting his ideas down and um yeah he knows it back and forth he knows yes he yeah he does and he's but he's also you know very savvy when it comes to what he thinks will hit and yeah you know it's funny i used to bust his balls because he goes hey i got this this guy wants me to come play his birthday party give me 50 grand to come sing i go does he give you another 50 to get off

Speaker 2 because he's like we do karaoke at my birthday party and he goes maybe i'll get up with these guys i'm like maybe it's it's gonna within seconds so he would sing karaoke and then that was for the next three hours

Speaker 3 I don't know if you ever came down to

Speaker 3 in New York. I think it was in the late 90s, maybe we would show up once a week at Shine, which was

Speaker 3 a club

Speaker 3 downtown.

Speaker 3 And we'd do all covers and any given night.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, how funny.

Speaker 3 Mike Mills, Stevie Nicks sat in with us. Keith Richards sat in with us.
Anyway, Kid Rock came down. And it was the same night that Keith sat in.

Speaker 3 And he kept yelling keith's name keith richards keith richards and keith got really mad like irritated he's like quit saying my name and i at one point i'm just like okay i'm not sure how to manage you know we're doing all these bad 90s covers wow but yeah he's a lot of fun and i will say that picture yeah is one of the most covered songs in karaoke in the world for sure that is you know one of my claims of fame wow i'm telling you it's on top of everything else you've done.

Speaker 2 And then I was looking at this and I go, oh, that's right. Picture on top of all this stuff.
So just had to high five you for that one. That's so good.

Speaker 3 Got a high five Bobby for that one.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 He does. I bust his balls all the time, but he is good.

Speaker 1 Okay, you know, traveling, Woolberries, Mulberries. Yes.
So

Speaker 1 past and present, if you were going to make a female super group, who would be in there? I mean, obviously you would put in

Speaker 1 Stevie.

Speaker 1 Stevie Nicks.

Speaker 3 Obviously, I would put in Stevie Nicks, most definitely.

Speaker 3 Super group.

Speaker 2 10 out of 10.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I would ask Brandy, you know.

Speaker 1 She loves you, and she's cool.

Speaker 3 Brandy is amazing, and she's a great songwriter, and she's just a kick-ass chip.

Speaker 1 She's cool.

Speaker 3 Who else? 23.

Speaker 2 It's like Nirvana so far.

Speaker 1 I know. Emmy Raid, Emmy Lou Harris.

Speaker 3 Bonnie would be amazing. Emmy would be amazing.
Linda Ronstadt. Linda Ronstadt.

Speaker 2 I was going to say. Yes.

Speaker 3 I mean, young-wise, I mean, you know, the Traveling Wheelberries, each one of them had a huge full body of material. Yeah.
So, I mean, because there's a lot of young people out there that will

Speaker 2 rate.

Speaker 3 Oh, man. I mean, I love Maren.
She's a great songwriter, great performer, great singer. I love Courtney Barnett.
She's amazing. I love the Higham girls.
They're great.

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 3 who else goes on and on yeah yeah yeah i mean i love florence and the machine she's really interesting there's a young girl named cassie i want to say anyway there's there's a lot of good young female music out there

Speaker 1 yeah it's hard to break through though i mean there's just it's there's just so much of everything with everything is everything now yeah it's true what's in your hand what's going on down there who me yeah oh guitar picks Are you going to write us as soon as this podcast is over?

Speaker 1 Are you going to pick up one of those guitars and just go crazy and write a masterpiece?

Speaker 2 Are you writing a song about me and Dane?

Speaker 1 Yeah, just like podcasting with the lady and Joe Dirt.

Speaker 1 What is it?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 did you forget how to play?

Speaker 1 What is that? I can't even hear it.

Speaker 3 well that sounded a little patty smith didn't it i liked it i had a little punk to it we'll get it on tick tock right away cool please do yeah please get me on tick tock i know is that something they want you to do is like try to snippet your song on tick tock okay so the documentary was coming out and showtime was really hoping that i would open a tick tock account and do tick tock is that so real 12-year-old was like mom please don't

Speaker 1 she's like that is so cringy i'm on tick tock and it's so i'm gonna join it you know that word cringy though like when you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing because you're not cool yeah it's cringy yeah that's right yeah i'm i'm thinking of joining it though i don't know you are i don't look at any social media but i've heard oh dana doesn't even look and he gets comments and i have to answer for him because they go hey what is dana think and i go well dana would probably i don't see look at anything but i do from what i understand the new york you should do tick tock you would be huge well thank you okay, I'm saying that, and I don't know.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Cheryl.

Speaker 2 You don't know anything.

Speaker 1 I don't know anything about

Speaker 1 knowledge of anything. Well, I was reading that.

Speaker 1 New York Times had a 20-page article on what is TikTok. So essentially, I got the idea that rhythmic musicality is shared.

Speaker 1 Like you make something, like if I did chop buckley, then other people take it and go with it. So I don't know.

Speaker 1 If it is about audio

Speaker 1 musicality, catching up.

Speaker 3 Chopping broccoli could work.

Speaker 2 Chop. Cheryl knows what it is.

Speaker 1 Chop. I do.
I know.

Speaker 3 I do chop it and broccoli. Yeah, I've said that in my kitchen to my boys, and they look at me like, what?

Speaker 1 Ah, we got to get your boys up to speed, man. Oh, my.
My kids don't know.

Speaker 3 I know. I try to turn them onto all the good stuff.

Speaker 1 They don't think I'm funny. They just show me

Speaker 2 Joe Dirt and Ben Schwarmers.

Speaker 3 Oh, they're going to watch Joe Dirt for sure.

Speaker 3 And they need to know who the church lady is for sure.

Speaker 1 Wayne's World, they usually. And Wayne's World, they need to know.

Speaker 3 Yes, they will. They will.

Speaker 1 Get them up to speed.

Speaker 2 and then next time we go to uh

Speaker 2 uh down there we'll make cheryl come out to the show

Speaker 3 hey would y'all please let me know if you ever come to nashville i'm your buddy i know but i didn't i definitely i love nashville i we think about machine millions i mean it's cool just don't come here and buy a house oh

Speaker 2 California, come on out to take over.

Speaker 1 Californians making the prices go up, that kind of thing. Interlopers.

Speaker 3 Oh, my gosh. You have no idea.

Speaker 1 Montana. I'm from Montana.
It's all going on up there. All the billionaires are coming in.
I'll take five of those.

Speaker 2 There's a great comedian, Theo Vaughn, one of my good buddies, lives out there. So when I go see him, I'll play the Rhyman and then I'll make you come down.

Speaker 1 Please. How many seats is the Ryman? I want to go in there and rock that place.
How much is that? It's amazing.

Speaker 1 I think I played it once.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's 20, somewhere around it.

Speaker 1 I did play it once. It used to be Grand.

Speaker 2 Was it the Grand Old Opry or am I being stupid?

Speaker 3 It was the Grand Old Opry, and before that, it was a church way, way early.

Speaker 2 Before that, it was a Whataburger?

Speaker 1 Well, I played it. I played it, and I came off stage, and Cheryl happened to be there, and she goes,

Speaker 1 that was good. I'm kidding.

Speaker 3 That was so, you really went out there, didn't you?

Speaker 2 She goes, oh, they're a little tight.

Speaker 1 Why do we have all this self-loathing? What the fuck is that? No, here's the one to say, Dana.

Speaker 2 When Cheryl gets off, I'm going to go, fuck that crowd.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get in the funeral. And you go, wait, I thought I did good.

Speaker 3 I thought they liked me.

Speaker 2 No, they were tough.

Speaker 3 No, that was a hard crowd, man.

Speaker 2 No, we'll get them.

Speaker 1 We'll get them together. I'm going to get a social position and cry myself to sleep with questions I should have done better.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, you aren't.

Speaker 3 Hey, this is the best podcast I've ever done. Ever.
Thank you, Paul.

Speaker 1 We're the best. We love you.
You know, she's really good on the podcast.

Speaker 1 She's kind of straightforward. You don't have to play any games.
I do Paul now. I actually write songs as Paul.
Okay, wait. When you interviewed Paul, did you do Paul? Oh, yeah.
Did you do it?

Speaker 1 I came to you. Did I do Paul when you were doing it? I might have done it a little bit.
I was a little, I couldn't, you know, I was trying, I didn't want to piss him off, but I probably didn't.

Speaker 2 I had interview paralysis. Yeah.
I was like, I'm Dana's Yoko.

Speaker 2 I mean, there's just so many things you're scared to say to him because

Speaker 2 he seems very light on his feet. But you just, he's too respected.
You can't risk that.

Speaker 3 He's a sir, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's too big a deal.

Speaker 1 We didn't go there with a sir. At first, I read a lot of liver puddling phrases, so I said, did you have your brekkie? Your brekkie.
But he was just waking up. He had a cup of coffee.

Speaker 1 I don't think he knew what I was talking. That's breakfast in Liverpudlian language.
A scouser.

Speaker 1 You know, we had a good time.

Speaker 1 This is him now. You know, we did some things.
We tried to. No, he got into it.

Speaker 2 He got into it toward the end. We loved it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. We were getting stuff for me, Cheryl.
It was just electrifying. And he wanted to talk about the Beatles the whole time.
Oh, my God. And I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 To hear it.

Speaker 1 From the guy. All right.
So, anyway.

Speaker 1 All right let let her go back to Cheryl everybody loves you you're an you're uh you're a um a great artist I don't like you know legacy what's that and you know you're in Nashville you're like a teenager yeah you know a teenager really in national teenagers

Speaker 1 country music does not have an age that's what's brilliant about it no it's true it does not you do pop rock jazz you do every style but you also can do country i have to say i feel like i'm in my 20s 20s.

Speaker 3 You look

Speaker 3 and that's why I really like doing podcasts because as far as your listening audience knows, I look like I'm in my 20s.

Speaker 1 There, I said it.

Speaker 2 You look great. Your voice is still raspy and sexy.
And then your singing is still perfect.

Speaker 3 Because I'm still smoking like a fiend. You're good.

Speaker 1 You stayed really fit. Even when you were touring,

Speaker 1 I was going to ask how you stayed so fit

Speaker 1 throughout your career. Because usually you tour a lot.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 I have to admit, it is genetic. What?

Speaker 3 Yes, it's genetic.

Speaker 1 I'm from a long line of wiry and fit.

Speaker 3 Petite, small, petite, wiry people.

Speaker 1 So you don't gain weight. You just kind of, and you work out on stage when you're out there.

Speaker 3 I work out on stage and I'm very, I mean, I get up in the morning and I do not sit down. I mean, I'm always doing.

Speaker 2 Her backstage rider is five Triscuits in a Slim Jim.

Speaker 3 And that's all I get.

Speaker 1 That's it.

Speaker 2 And one five-hour energy.

Speaker 1 Actually, that's mine.

Speaker 2 All right, Cheryl, let's let her go, Dana.

Speaker 1 She's been too nice.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Bye, Bob.
Bye Cheryl.

Speaker 3 It's good to see y'all. We'll see you soon, I'm sure, in Nashville.
I hope so. Call me when you come to Nashville.

Speaker 2 Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

Speaker 1 If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

Speaker 2 Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, and Leah Reese-Dennis of Odyssey.

Speaker 1 Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweetech.

Speaker 2 Booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

Speaker 1 Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney, and Warren Vieira.

Speaker 2 Reach out with us any questions to be asked and answered on the show. You can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey.com.
That's A-U-D-A-C-Y.com.