RE-RELEASE - Al Franken

Speaker 1 Al Franken is our guest on this.

Speaker 2 Al Franken, yes.

Speaker 1 Al Franken is coming up. I mean, we uh we worked with him on SNL

Speaker 1 for seven years, and um, it's uh, it's always fun to write with you a lot, though, on political stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, he was always very political before he became a senator, and uh, it was useful to have him around.

Speaker 1 And me and him, and Jim Downey would hatch out those uh, not gonna die, you know, hatch those out.

Speaker 3 Also, Franken and Davis, the comedy team, and they were in maybe trading places, was it?

Speaker 1 They were in a lot of things, and they were there from the beginning. You know, they, you know, with the 70s,

Speaker 2 they knew all about,

Speaker 1 yeah, knew all about those Ackroyd and all those guys. So it's a really fun interview.
He's an interesting guy, and we've known him a long, long time. So here you go.

Speaker 3 He was the head writer when I was there, along with Downey and Michael.

Speaker 3 Al Franken.

Speaker 1 Al Franken, everybody.

Speaker 1 Is that Putin? Putin, but I wouldn't do it if I were you. I just think we can come to some.
Oh, I got to do a podcast. Okay.

Speaker 2 Fly on the wall. I got it.
I got it.

Speaker 1 Fly on the wall.

Speaker 3 Putin called Al to say, how do I get SNL not to make fun of me?

Speaker 1 We were going to call our podcast the Al Franken Show, but I said, but why? He's only going to be on once.

Speaker 2 And they said, okay, but.

Speaker 3 Me, Al Franken.

Speaker 1 Ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to Fly on the Wall with our very special guest, SNL Legend and Senator Al Franken.

Speaker 2 Thanks for inviting me. Of course.

Speaker 3 Al, there's so many things in your career that we are looking at to talk about.

Speaker 1 Your new nickname is the touchstone.

Speaker 2 I did Saturday Night Live, you know.

Speaker 3 I do know that is a big chunk of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We want to go with a deep dive. Our other name for the podcast is the hot seat.

Speaker 2 So welcome,

Speaker 1 Senator.

Speaker 3 We really grill them.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've heard you grill.

Speaker 1 We love our

Speaker 3 we're the worst, we're the worst two hosts. I think we've been voted, but that's okay.

Speaker 1 That's okay, we're terrible, but we know it, which is kind of helpful.

Speaker 2 That's the charm, yeah. That's the charm of you guys, that's what people love about you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't go to interview school, right?

Speaker 3 They say you have no qualifications. We're like, Well, who you don't need them, it's a podcast, you don't need anything.

Speaker 2 You have a chemistry between you, yeah.

Speaker 1 That is, is that that a little Ed Wynn at the end of the

Speaker 2 friendship and affection for each other?

Speaker 1 Falling out. And

Speaker 2 very funny.

Speaker 2 Each of you and both together.

Speaker 2 I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 No, it's not Stuart Smalley, but it's some other kind of character that's sort of sweet.

Speaker 2 I'm on the Upper West Side of New York right now. I think I'm just channeling last person Iran.

Speaker 1 Sweetness.

Speaker 1 Something.

Speaker 3 You know, Al got it. Dana Al is very smart.
He went to Harvard. He also got a 800 on the math section of the SAT.

Speaker 2 I don't think that's out of his mind.

Speaker 1 Al does not get a 800 on his math.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 my mom said that on a rate.

Speaker 2 I once did a radio interview in Minneapolis and my mom,

Speaker 2 her apartment had burned down.

Speaker 2 And so she had to come with me. I was promoting a book.
And so we're doing a radio interview. And I said, okay, mom, you're not being being interviewed.
We're like in the green room.

Speaker 2 Then I have to go to the bathroom. And then I come back and I go, where's my mom?

Speaker 2 And she's being interviewed. And she's going, Alan got an 800 on SS

Speaker 1 within 20 seconds. She pulled that out.
Within 20 seconds.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1 But, okay, so seriously, so you're a math whiz or a brainiac. I mean, what is that about?

Speaker 2 No, I was just good at math. And up to a point, I mean, I, I was just, I peaked at,

Speaker 2 you know, algebra two. I mean, I was not, I took calculus freshman year, and I went, what I have no idea what this is useful for, and I don't like it.
And then I became a comedian.

Speaker 3 I have to say, I was good at math, Al. And when I went, one of those didn't click with me.
And I think people that are good at all math is very interesting because it was like algebra geometry.

Speaker 3 And then one of them I stopped at and said, I don't get it at all. And then they go, well, then you're dumb.

Speaker 2 And I go, well, that doesn't.

Speaker 3 Anyway, Al was in in the Minnesota comedy sketch scene back. Was that a big scene back? It says, that's where you started.

Speaker 2 I don't know where you got that thing.

Speaker 2 There was this thing called Dudley Riggs Brave New World,

Speaker 2 which was like the third city. It was like SE.

Speaker 2 In fact, Del Close taught that Tom was in. Tom was in their troop.
Tom was in.

Speaker 2 And I'll give you an example of, you know, Tom Davis and I

Speaker 2 met in high school and we started performing together at this theater. And we went to like an open that what there weren't mics it was a little theater and um

Speaker 2 we

Speaker 2 were able to get on and the the owner liked us and we were able to do shows there

Speaker 2 and tom i went off to college and tom became a member of the troop and got the training the improv training and anyone who's interested in comedy i would do that because i'll give you one example where it really came in handy remember julia chow bleeding to death that

Speaker 2 Danny? Yep. Okay, so

Speaker 2 Tom and I wrote that. We're looking for an end.

Speaker 2 And in improv, you're taught to look for objects because you're out there on the stage with nothing and you're improvising. And one of the techniques is to find objects.

Speaker 2 And at the end, we were looking for a blow for the scene. And Tom said, the phone.

Speaker 2 You know, there's the kitchen phone. And so, you know, Danny as Julia Chow is going like,

Speaker 2 oh, the phone

Speaker 2 in an emergency call 911. And

Speaker 2 Danny picks it up and starts to dial. He goes, it's a prop phone and throws it down and then dies, essentially.

Speaker 2 And that was like, you know, it was really, you know, Tom and I as a team each kind of complimented each other in certain ways. That was one of the ways he did.
So people who are listening

Speaker 2 to this broadcast podcast are really interested in comedy and and young people ask me all the time should i do improv classes and go yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 1 and we always say get it get in a kind of a biker bar and try to do five minutes that's that's the path you know stand-up is a lot rougher i did a biker bar

Speaker 2 whoops so

Speaker 3 you know

Speaker 3 al that was one of the best sketches ever that was one of the top top uh mount most memorable sketches just well Well, that was one that peaked on air.

Speaker 2 You know how, you know, how you knew you had something and you were just going like, oh, please peak on air, please. And we, that was one of the, you guys will attest to this.

Speaker 2 If something worked in dress, it was in air, right?

Speaker 2 And that worked in dress.

Speaker 2 And it was Walter Math that was the host, but we didn't have the blood quite right.

Speaker 2 And we held it because

Speaker 2 we didn't have the blood quite right. It's still kind of killed.
But, and here's the thing is that that, it was an insecticide sprayer

Speaker 2 underneath the counter.

Speaker 2 And the special effects guy was running it. And because Tom and I had written it,

Speaker 2 we went to the special effects guy and said, can Tom

Speaker 2 run this insecticide?

Speaker 3 Right, because it's like part of the joke.

Speaker 2 You got to to get it right. And the guy, you know, it's a union job.
They could have said, no, but they love, love Tom. And so Tom did it.
So Tom and Danny time those spurts.

Speaker 2 And that's, you know, and then, you know, it was one of those things where you're going like, oh, please get it all on

Speaker 2 air. And it does.
And you go, yay, yay. Whoa.

Speaker 1 Wow. So you actually platformed it and then said, let's wait until we get the blood spurt thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And that

Speaker 2 was really rare, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, oh, yeah, if it would work no matter what, but you, it wouldn't,

Speaker 3 you know, but maybe that just adds to it so much to make those things work perfectly. It's so much part of the joke, and then it goes boom, boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 3 And that's he's saying something funny, the blood comes out perfectly, and it just builds, builds, builds.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and you know what that feels like when it just works in all cylinders.

Speaker 3 You know what it feels like when it peaks at dress, too? That's a sickness.

Speaker 2 And there was there were years where we did not tape dress.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 1 So you didn't have a fail-safe then?

Speaker 2 Well, for the West Coast.

Speaker 1 For the repeats.

Speaker 2 Sometimes.

Speaker 2 And now they do, of course. And so, you know.

Speaker 3 Al, when we were there, let's say 91 to 96 was,

Speaker 3 I mean, I think we did tape dress. I never really saw them.
I never really, they didn't really do anything with them, but maybe they did tape them. I don't remember.

Speaker 2 No, I think, I think certainly in the repeats, I don't think they change it for the West Coast unless something

Speaker 3 I think they do that now, though. They say, well,

Speaker 3 they'll see it in the West Coast, a better one.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And that's a luxury. God.

Speaker 2 I know. I know.

Speaker 1 Al, can I ask for a second something about you and Tom? Because it's always interesting origin meetings and how

Speaker 1 you guys were partners in crime for so long. Like, do you remember it was the eighth grade PE or did you connect with them right away?

Speaker 2 Or do you have any kind of McCartney-Lennon-esque lenin-esque thing because you guys obviously connected 10th grade sophomore and i changed schools i uh went to the public school system until 10th grade and then my

Speaker 2 i don't need to go why i went to this all boys private school but

Speaker 2 it ruined my life but anyway it involved it involved

Speaker 2 let's just say

Speaker 2 it involved shoplifting yeah and so and then we we would have chapel in the morning it was like this school founded at the turn of the 20th century for a school for Protestant boys.

Speaker 2 And they started letting Jews in in the 50s to get the SAT scores up.

Speaker 2 And so,

Speaker 1 let that just lay there for a second.

Speaker 2 Well, yes,

Speaker 2 that's actually truer than it can possibly match. But

Speaker 2 so I get there and Tom makes an announcement. There's so, so the reason I said that about the religion was that we had chapel in the morning.

Speaker 2 and they had a big pipe organ and you sang, you know, Christian, these hymns and Christian songs.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And when I, the first week I got there, I just didn't sing them. And my math teacher asked me to stay after

Speaker 2 class and he said to me, Mr. Franken, you want to go to a good college, right? And I said, yeah.
He said, well, you're going to need good math scores for that, right? I said, yeah. I'd sing the hymns.

Speaker 2 Jeez, blackmail.

Speaker 2 And then I sang the hymns and I love singing the hymns, hymns, you know, a mighty fortress is our God.

Speaker 1 You know, oh, yeah, did you ever sing Onward Christian Soldiers?

Speaker 2 That dude was kind of catchy.

Speaker 1 On the word Christian soldiers.

Speaker 2 Some great

Speaker 2 mine. I didn't care.
But anyway, so, so after the hymns and some, you know, the faculty would,

Speaker 2 there'd be announcements. And Tom was really funny.
And he would, organizations would send him up to do announcements. So, like the first week of school, I went up to him.
I said, you're really funny.

Speaker 2 And then we started doing stuff together. We started doing announcements for the, you know, meeting of the chess club or something.
And we did all kinds of just, we did Carnac.

Speaker 2 We did just, you know, all kinds of fun. Oh, and they let you, they let you do it, huh?

Speaker 3 And they let you kind of screw around.

Speaker 2 They loved us doing that. I mean, it was fun.
And we, it was where we really started in chapel.

Speaker 1 Could you,

Speaker 1 there's been people mentioning, you know, 75 to 80 and specifically Jim Belushi.

Speaker 1 And I just want to get your attention. John, sorry.
Jim.

Speaker 2 Oh, Jim. Jim mentions it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But

Speaker 1 John, sorry. Sorry, Jim.
I apologize.

Speaker 1 John Belushi.

Speaker 1 apparently was sort of an intimidating figure or he became one. But anyway, our friend Jim Downey talked to it.
And I'd like to hear your take on you know season three

Speaker 1 uh and what was going on with with john you know

Speaker 2 well yeah i heard downey's interview with you and it was great i'd recommend that to anyone and he mentioned a time

Speaker 2 that i think he was referencing then this is my memory of it um one of the charlie's angels kate jackson with um

Speaker 2 jacqueline fair or kate jackson i think kate jackson was the host And

Speaker 2 I only referenced because that was, I remember that was it. And he was very bad off then in terms of drugs.
And so he was terrible in dress.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 Jim and I had written a sketch and I said, we got to just go and talk to him. And so,

Speaker 2 and Jim was intimidated at the time more. And I just knew Belushi from the

Speaker 2 get-go. And I just knew that he could be intimidating, but he wasn't going to do anything.

Speaker 1 So I, we not, I not to you, not to the state wrestling champ, but go ahead.

Speaker 2 We'll talk about that later. Well,

Speaker 2 I was hardly that. But so anyway, we go in and I go, John,

Speaker 2 you know, let's run lines on this sketch because frankly, you were pretty bad and I didn't align.

Speaker 2 And he just goes like, get out of here.

Speaker 2 And he makes a fist and down, you know, and I'm going like, no, no, I guess, I'll tell you what, John, we'll just read them to you so that they'll sound familiar when they're coming out of your mouth.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's what we did. We just read him the sketch over and over again.

Speaker 2 And he was marginally better. You know, this is kind of his worst point.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 but I never saw him actually

Speaker 2 do anything other than,

Speaker 2 you know physically to intimidate anyone or other than his bearing and he wasn't you know

Speaker 1 he wasn't great to the women in terms of that showing respect and the women writers and stuff so yeah it but god damn he was funny yeah a brilliant comedian i you what i i'm just sort of curious like what were the things he was taking and how did it affect his performance was he taking cocaine where he'd speed up was he drinking so he'd slow down?

Speaker 1 Or do you think that's the thing?

Speaker 2 I think it was mainly cocaine at that time. You know, it's funny.
When I first ran for the Senate,

Speaker 2 one of the first interviews I had, I thought SNL was going to really help me.

Speaker 2 This is a feather in my cat. Everyone loves SNL.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they did bring up a lot of your sketches, didn't they? Vanu, go ahead.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, my first interview is, or one of my first interviews, the reporter says, Yeah, when you were at Saturday Night Live, did you ever do cocaine?

Speaker 2 And I say, hmm,

Speaker 1 what's that?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 And then I say, but I only did a little

Speaker 2 so that I could stay awake late enough to make sure that Belushi didn't do too much.

Speaker 3 Good live. Good one.

Speaker 2 And which

Speaker 2 was a joke. And most people recognize as a joke.
But the media, I've learned

Speaker 2 a vested interest in not getting jokes. So the guy kind of wrote it up as Al Franken conceded that he used cocaine while a Saturday Night Live

Speaker 2 said that he only did a little so that he could stay awake late enough to make sure that John Belushi didn't do too much. Belushi later died of a drug overdose.

Speaker 1 Connect the dots. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And so anything I ever did,

Speaker 2 oh my my God, I think of

Speaker 2 there's

Speaker 2 one line in a great sketch, Comedy Killers.

Speaker 2 Were you guys around for that?

Speaker 3 I think I was. It sounds like okay.

Speaker 2 Comedy killers was a Jeopardy-like game, but the premise was, and Downey and I wrote this, and I'm sure, and other people kicked in.

Speaker 2 You know, it was one of those things where people kicked in at the table. So it was just the categories were like, cancer,

Speaker 1 the Holocaust,

Speaker 2 Kennedys, you know, that kind of thing. And so there's one joke, and Rosie Schuster wrote this joke.
So this might have been earlier than, well, or maybe she was going to be Lauren Michaels.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It was, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 And the, it was Jeopardy. Like, so

Speaker 2 this would have been a bad Hanukkah gift for Anne Frank.

Speaker 2 And then, and,

Speaker 2 what was a drum set?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was.

Speaker 2 And so I later told that joke, like I'm telling it now. And so that gets like, Al Franken told jokes about the Holocaust.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 This guy,

Speaker 1 he's coked out of his mind and he doesn't care about the Holocaust.

Speaker 2 Al should have said he told pretty good jokes.

Speaker 3 In one of his cocaine frenzies,

Speaker 1 the Holocaust joker Cokehead also said, you know,

Speaker 3 I don't know about you. I don't know if I want this guy running the game.

Speaker 1 He feels cocaine and the Holocaust are a joke. What else does he do?

Speaker 3 It reminds me of those political ads we used to say.

Speaker 1 Yeah, those are the best. Go ahead, Al.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So funny.

Speaker 4 Tito's handmade vodka is America's favorite vodka for a reason.

Speaker 4 From the first legal distillery in Texas, Tito's is six times distilled till it's just right and naturally gluten-free, making it a high-quality spirit that mixes with just about anything.

Speaker 4 From the smoothest martinis to the best best Bloody Marys. Tito's is known for giving back, teaming up with nonprofits to serve its communities and do good for dogs.

Speaker 4 Make your next cocktail with Tito's. Distilled and bottled by Fifth Generation Inc., Austin, Texas.
40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly.

Speaker 3 I had a

Speaker 2 kind of a gap girls.

Speaker 2 It's

Speaker 2 a story, but it's really just about the gap girls set and Paul McCartney. So I love it.

Speaker 3 I think I remember this.

Speaker 2 Okay, well, Paul McCartney,

Speaker 2 okay, as

Speaker 2 well, for your listeners,

Speaker 2 the first thing that was rehearsed on Thursdays, we shot promos maybe first, but the second thing, maybe the first thing rehearsed was the music, because the music set was the music set and was there.

Speaker 2 So you didn't have to bring a new set.

Speaker 2 So when Paul McCartney came to play, everybody at 30 Rock knew he was the guest and knew when the music rehearsal was. So 8H was filled with people for the rehearsal.
And Lauren goes up and

Speaker 2 asks Paul. I'm there, right there, you know, and he's going up to Paul and he says, Could you do Hey Jude? How would Lauren say that?

Speaker 1 Could you possibly find your way to Hey Jude?

Speaker 1 It's just like a really, really, really big hit.

Speaker 2 I think find your way to Hey Jude would be

Speaker 2 exactly right.

Speaker 2 So Paul goes like, well, we're not really playing at this tour. So we don't, I don't know if we really know it.
And I go, Hey, Jude.

Speaker 2 And he goes, no, no, no, no. And because the lyrics are so like this, you know, confusing.

Speaker 2 But I think Paul was actually.

Speaker 2 I think they were doing that tour. So he goes to the band, then he comes back.
He says, yeah. So they play Hey Jude in the studio, full of people there.
And everybody is so blown away and moved.

Speaker 2 And I'm like crying because this was,

Speaker 2 you know, I was like 16 when Hey Jude came out. And it was that it just meant so much.
And that,

Speaker 2 and I'm literally, where's my life gone? I remember being sitting in the car, not. you know, if Hey Jude was on, I just like arrived at my place.
I waited to the end of Hey Jude and I'm just so moved.

Speaker 2 Okay, they're doing a gap girls.

Speaker 1 Okay, now Gap Girls is going to enter the story. Okay, great.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 we're now

Speaker 2 on Saturday and during meal break, they

Speaker 2 have the music rehearsal. So I go, of course, because we're going to play Hey Jude and I go on the floor.

Speaker 2 And I noticed while they're playing Hey Jude that the gap, there's a guard on the Gap Girl sketch guarding the clothes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because there's so the clothes on the gap girl, the girl's gap girl sketch was so, I guess, valuable enough to have a guard there. So, but I see that the guard is so transfixed with, hey, Jude,

Speaker 2 that, and I need some jeans.

Speaker 1 And you need some jeans. Okay, got it.

Speaker 2 And I need some jeans. So I watched during dress.
He's still during air. I took two pairs of 3630s.

Speaker 2 3630s.

Speaker 1 3630.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's what I was at the time. 3630s.
I'm short.

Speaker 1 Well, you have gigantic legs. Remember the night you and Farley would sometimes, in a fun way, wrestle.
At least one night. I remember you guys, it was like Godzilla versus King Kong.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I didn't really know that I was a wrestler, but your build is very powerful. And Farley was, you know, and it was like.
Golias colliding.

Speaker 1 Who actually won that wrestling match in the middle of the night on

Speaker 1 17 foot?

Speaker 2 Well, I think it was just a kind of a man affection thing. Yeah, you guys were laughing

Speaker 2 when you did it.

Speaker 3 Obviously, everyone was turned on.

Speaker 2 Yeah. All the writers also.

Speaker 2 Especially the women.

Speaker 3 You know, actually, Dana, back to that, the gap set, they donated a corner, you know, like the set all from the gap, and it was all real.

Speaker 3 So they sent their own security saying, we have to make sure this comes back in one piece. Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 And that's what happened so uh i remember because they told me they go they got don't worry all the gap stuff all the cable crews everything's going to be still there on saturday no one's going to be able to pinch and then uh i did i yeah i think maybe you had told me that that's a great story i actually went to the prop master and said i took two jeans just and he said

Speaker 1 have you guys just threw out any kind of career uh appearance on a tv show or whatever and then there's wardrobe left over and there's something that you really like and then you sort of ask casually, could I kind of keep this jacket?

Speaker 1 And it's really fun when they say yes, even though it might only be a $20 jacket. Something about free stuff on a set or a TV show.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I never acted in a movie like you guys have. Stuart Smalley.
Well, I did. I did.
But why would I keep Stuart Smalley's clothes?

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 Trading places.

Speaker 1 I got his sweater was what I was going to say. Well, I was Porter.

Speaker 2 I was stone Porter number one and Tom was stone porter number two.

Speaker 3 Did you write trading places?

Speaker 2 No, no, no. We were just giving this little part, and it was stone porter number one, stone porter number two.
And we smoke a joint in it, and they took that away because Eddie smokes a joint.

Speaker 2 And remember, in the bathroom, so we were playing stone, but we were,

Speaker 2 no one had seen us in the movie Smoke a Joint. So we were kind of

Speaker 2 dim-witted.

Speaker 1 Did you actually do like a stoner dude voice? Did you do like a character?

Speaker 2 Yeah, we were kind of like, uh,

Speaker 2 yeah, like,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 um okay we thought that was motivated by them having seen us smoke pot but it was fine it was fine so al you kind of have a reputation like you do risky stuff and i just want to start with this one

Speaker 1 okay and i don't know if this is true but it's 1980 lauren's gonna leave And you were potentially one of the error parents to then take over SNL and be the executive producer? Is that possibly true?

Speaker 1 But you wrote a sketch about Fred Silverman, the then head of NBC, or he was

Speaker 2 stupid.

Speaker 2 Is that true in hindsight?

Speaker 1 It was not biting the hand that feeds. Did that, I mean, what, what was that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, look, my life is unfolded the way it's unfolded. So,

Speaker 2 but that was stupid. I, yeah, I, I didn't think that.
necessarily that that was going to happen anyway.

Speaker 2 And I was kind of up for leaving myself also so i just did limo for the lamo and it was just about how

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 you know like i i didn't get a limo i said even garrett gets a limo and or something like that and but i don't get one and but fred silverman gets a limo and then i we were nbc was tanking at the time and i i was a couple like one of the executives attached to the show begged me not to do it and

Speaker 2 we had the ethic that if it's funny, we do it. Right.

Speaker 2 That was kind of it. And

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 1 did it hurt you in any way then? You were going to leave the show.

Speaker 2 In the sense that Fred Silverman has hated me

Speaker 2 ever since and that he was the head of the network. But no.

Speaker 3 But Al, what about when you, I just watched this whole update bit you did about you came back and I guess it was Gene Nemanian had come and gone within six months. And he did a whole update piece.

Speaker 3 Was Chevy the host? Is that why he was there?

Speaker 2 Oh, he must have been. I think it was like an interim thing

Speaker 2 where

Speaker 2 who came back with Ebersoll, I think.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you were sort of making fun of him, too.

Speaker 2 And I was kind of making, yeah, I was ballsy bit. Yeah, I was saying kill the show or something like that.
Yeah, and then, but then a writer's streak happened right after that. And

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 1 but you always did edgy stuff. Didn't you?

Speaker 1 Uh, this is jumping ahead for a second, but just to your uh not censoring yourself, didn't you suggest to George Steinbrenner, the billionaire owner of the New York Yankees, who was the host, that somehow he would be on all fours with a dog collar and there'd be some.

Speaker 2 No, no, I had him play, I wrote a sketch where he's playing Petey,

Speaker 2 who is kind of

Speaker 2 like wears a beanie and shorts. Yeah.
And is just, and everyone just say, like, p d you're so stupid p d

Speaker 2 and he would just it was all clearly just a pretext to say a horror you know just

Speaker 2 say stuff to george steinbrenner like that and he wouldn't do pd he wouldn't is that the one where odenkirk and conan were supposed to go try to keep talking him into doing a sketch or something no this was uh i don't think so i i did pd and i just thought it'd be very funny he He had like a beanie with like a twirling thing on the top.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and he was just waiting for me.

Speaker 2 I think we made him get on all fours in the sketch.

Speaker 1 That's what I remember going.

Speaker 2 Kicked him in the ass. That's right.
I think that's all.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they got him on all fours, kicked him in the ass. And were you shocked when he turned down the sketch?

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 he was kind of weird. I don't know if he was the kind of guy.

Speaker 2 He did a decent job. We wrote a sketch for

Speaker 2 him and Nealon

Speaker 2 and Jan and Victoria, where it was just George is Nealon's boss, and the two couples are going out to dinner. And Nealon offers to pick up the check.
And George says, No, come on, I'm your boss.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, you always picked it up. I'm going to pick it up.
And no, I'm your boss. I'm taking the check.
And no, I'm taking the check. And then he takes it and goes, well, that was pretty easy.

Speaker 2 And then Nealon goes, okay, I'm taking it. I'm taking it.
And then it just escalates.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And Jan kind of goes, No, you know, it was one of those. And Steinbrenner was very good in it.

Speaker 1 I just remember him going around 8H, asking people where they went to college and, like, you know, Penn State, oh, good school. You know, Cambridge, oh, nice school.

Speaker 1 And then he came to me and goes, where'd you go to college? I said, San Francisco State. His face went blank and he just turned and walked away from me.

Speaker 2 Really? Why? Well, San Francisco State. I guess it wasn't a sexy college god that makes me think george steinbrenner is a dick

Speaker 1 or a guy who just loves higher education you know i mean i i just it was just a funny school that i went to now san francisco state is a fine school there are stories that you always feel like everyone's heard but i i don't really

Speaker 1 know the george harrison legend legendary visit I'll give you a choice. Either that or talk about the

Speaker 1 character, the brain tumor comedian.

Speaker 2 okay um

Speaker 1 i'll do harrison real quick uh both yeah so this was an epic thing i missed it but he comes to sno in what year like 90 whatever i

Speaker 2 probably not 90 i would have been there 95 89 88 something like that conan is there because i was discussing this with conan and basically george harrison is uh shows up at uh on the 17th floor he and lauren are going out to dinner Okay.

Speaker 2 Oh, George Harrison's here. George Harrison is here.
They're going out to dinner.

Speaker 2 They come back a few hours later, and he is just drunk.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 now it's like 10:30, 11. I love it.
And as you know, this is Tuesday night. This is Tuesday night.
And that's

Speaker 2 Friday night. Show gets written.
And this year I was one of the producers.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he starts to play the piano.

Speaker 1 Fun.

Speaker 2 A gift. In the read-through room.
And everyone just is like gathered around. And George Harrison's playing the piano.
A Beatles playing the piano. And it's going on and on and on.

Speaker 2 And I'm going like, the show is not going to get written.

Speaker 2 And so I just go to Phil Hartman.

Speaker 2 I say, Phil, watch this.

Speaker 2 And you remember my desk, my office is right next to you. Right, right, right across.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So I go in my office and I just slam my door as hard as I can.

Speaker 2 I didn't see him because I'm inside, but he evidently, George, like jumped like three feet off the piano bench, came down and then left. And everybody was just furious at me.

Speaker 2 And I just said, we got to write, we got to write this show. And of course, Rue McClanahan was the host.
No,

Speaker 1 and she sat down at the piano and wouldn't stop.

Speaker 1 That piano was.

Speaker 2 That's that that story.

Speaker 2 And the brain tumor comedian was,

Speaker 2 Tom is so funny in this piece. It's, you know, we would do the Franken and Davis show, which was a show within the show.

Speaker 2 And this one is, I have a brain tumor and I have this terror, this bandage with a big lump. discolored lump on it.
And

Speaker 2 Al's always wanted to do a single. And he's,

Speaker 2 this is, you know, he's got a brain tumor. So, you know,

Speaker 2 you're going to really enjoy this, folks. This is Tom.
And then I start,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 you know, you hear about the rabbi didn't give,

Speaker 2 you know, didn't charge for giving circumcisions. He only took tips.
Woof. And then the next, next joke I tell, I start to space out.

Speaker 2 And every joke I always, the punch is always,

Speaker 2 he only took tips.

Speaker 2 And then Tom behind me would go, would like encourage the audience

Speaker 2 to laugh. And

Speaker 2 it was really funny. And Tom was really funny.
And of course, we got a few letters. Have you ever watched your

Speaker 2 wife die of a brain tumor?

Speaker 1 Have you ever thought of a sketch out

Speaker 1 where you thought of it and said, ah, no, no, too much.

Speaker 1 Too far.

Speaker 2 Yes, of course, but I can't remember anything. Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, but I can't remember. It was few and far between.
But let's talk about some stuff we did together yeah

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 i know you know and and downey

Speaker 2 i think i've told you this downey had this credo for the for the political material we wrote which was we downey it was a moderate republican a very thoughtful

Speaker 2 uh

Speaker 2 you know

Speaker 2 conservative in the best sense Republican. And I'm obviously a very progressive Democrat.
And we felt that it wasn't the job of the show that to we just, we felt the job was to do

Speaker 2 satirical, political satire that was well observed, but not, you know, biased in one way or another.

Speaker 2 So, and, and Downey had this motto, which was, we're going to reward people for knowing stuff, but not punish them for not knowing stuff.

Speaker 2 So the point was, is that you could watch it and not be a political junkie at all, not follow politics very closely closely and understand it.

Speaker 2 But if you were someone who did, there was another layer, and that's that's pretty sophisticated stuff.

Speaker 2 But uh, but Downey and I were pretty uh, I'm very proud of the stuff I did with Jim, and we did so much with you.

Speaker 2 And Jim didn't say this when we're talking about you doing uh the Bush Cold openings, which we use as a crutch. I mean,

Speaker 2 basically, we can always do Dana in one on home base.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 Downey is right. Sometimes we wrote them on, and

Speaker 1 they were long.

Speaker 2 But here's the thing that I tell people a lot, which is in dress.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 those were well written by and large. And Downey kind of said, well, sometimes we threw you out there with nothing.
I don't, you know, I don't make a lot out of whatever we gave you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But what would happen is we would send you out there with something actually well, you know, well thought through.

Speaker 2 You would get so many laughs at will because you do the, you just do your hand thing over there, doing that, doing

Speaker 2 the bang,

Speaker 1 and just

Speaker 2 will

Speaker 2 get laughs. So we had to tell you between dress and air, a number of times, which I don't think anybody has ever told a performer, don't get so many laughs

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 you're ruining, you're not following the through line line

Speaker 2 of the audiences and they're losing the through line and

Speaker 2 you knew exactly what we were talking about you knew exactly how to dial it down and you did every

Speaker 2 fucking time

Speaker 2 and which was you knew exactly what you're doing you had such control and of course you helped write those and added to them and i i also want to tell another story about you which is is, and I think I've discussed this with you, but

Speaker 2 in,

Speaker 2 I guess it was when, when did Clinton run? 92.

Speaker 2 So Sanghas was running and Jerry Brown was running. Yes.
Yeah. And we had a two-week break, which was rare.
And a two-week break. And you said to me, you know, on as

Speaker 2 we were about to go on break, said, can you work on Sangas for me? You know, just on the idea of Sanghas and what to do with him. And so I started playing around with his voice and I nailed it.

Speaker 2 I got it really great. And then I went to, I gave a speech at the Kennedy School, you know, on political satire.
And I killed with Sanghas. So I come back and I'm very embarrassed.

Speaker 2 And I say to Dana, could I do Sanghas? And you just twin, yep, I'll do Jerry Brown.

Speaker 1 Love Jerry Brown.

Speaker 2 And the thing about you is that you knew Jerry Brown. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Part of it is that you went to, you know, a lousy campaign, San Francisco State. I think we went to California.
Oh, but

Speaker 1 Jerry Brown was a great character, but your song was hysterical. Whatever your take was, I remember it killing.
Right, it was

Speaker 2 Snagglepuss with a Kermit

Speaker 2 with a Massachusetts accent. Yeah.
Snagglepuss.

Speaker 1 And he really had a voice that odd. I mean, it wasn't that big a leap.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Very extreme. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I have a question out. When you and Dana were formulating

Speaker 3 Bush,

Speaker 3 it was right before I got there, but I just watched a Bush Dukakis early on debate, which I don't even know if it was a cold opening. It was 14 minutes, which is pretty long,

Speaker 2 but it was great.

Speaker 1 It was during the campaign. It was hilarious.

Speaker 3 That was Diane Sawyer.

Speaker 2 I discussed with Downey the line,

Speaker 2 which was, I can't believe I'm losing to this guy. Yes.
And yes, I wrote that line, but the line only worked because of this long setup. Right.

Speaker 1 Of Bush rambling.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Well, and it was, it was, it was Diane Sawyer, Jan Hooks, playing a very sultry

Speaker 2 Diane Sawyer. So funny.
Say hilarious

Speaker 2 and basically asking him a question. And

Speaker 2 you kind of go, well,

Speaker 2 say the course.

Speaker 2 Thousand points of light.

Speaker 2 Stay the course. And then she just went for the first time in this, she just went, you still have another minute 45

Speaker 2 as your vice president.

Speaker 1 And he just saw, well, say the course.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then bring it down.
And she does that back and forth with you like three or four times. And finally, she goes, Governor, and then I can't believe I'm losing this guy.
So that

Speaker 2 was, I wrote that line, but only because of that setup,

Speaker 2 set up that line. I think I

Speaker 2 totally thought of the line off the setup.

Speaker 1 And I did the whole skip.

Speaker 3 And Lovitz nailed that one, by the way.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 He was great in that sketch.

Speaker 1 Lovetts was great as Dukakis. And I don't know if I've told you this, Al, but he, on election night when Bush won, Lovitz called me and essentially conceded, well,

Speaker 1 you're going to be doing the president for four years. And the fake Dukakis.
conceded to the fake Bush before the real Dukakis conceded to the real one.

Speaker 1 But then I knew I was going to be in the hot seat, and I didn't really have the impression at that point.

Speaker 2 You didn't quite have it, and we did sit down and you started developing that.

Speaker 1 Well, do you remember the exact moment? Because it was just you and me in a room trying to find it. And I just said that doing that thing out there with the finger up, the lazy finger.

Speaker 2 Like that was doing that thing

Speaker 1 in that whole area.

Speaker 1 And we both looked at each other and laughed. And that was the end.
It's very interesting how one little hook and then it went to na-gad that.

Speaker 2 Well, I remember you were one of the first guests on my podcast, and you said to me, because I laughed, and you said, laughter is the oxygen of comedy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, oh, definitely. If you have someone laughing and you're riffing, then it is like the machine keeps going.

Speaker 2 So you laugh. Exactly.

Speaker 1 And I knew, I like, okay, this is great. And then we had Jim Downey coming in.
It was like, I felt really blessed to have you and Jim Downey working on it.

Speaker 1 But you seem to be the primary driver, instigator of of the subject matter, and uh, which we talked about, but it was interesting that when Bush was riding so high, he was 90% approval after his first two years in in the Gulf War.

Speaker 2 All the sketches,

Speaker 1 yeah, all the sketches were about how he was impenetrable.

Speaker 1 And when I did it at DC for the Democratic fundraiser, everything was about I'm going to get elected, and it was just this super happy comedian.

Speaker 2 He was literally at 89%.

Speaker 1 Yeah, insane. Well, try to be

Speaker 2 led us out of the, you know, Saddam invaded Kuwait

Speaker 2 and he put this coalition together, put the coalition together.

Speaker 1 Everyone could do it now.

Speaker 2 Well, it's the guy. You're just doing the guy who figured it out.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 not unlike what Biden is doing now, in a way. Come on.

Speaker 2 We got inflation.

Speaker 1 People can't get the baby formula.

Speaker 1 I love yelling, yelling, Biden.

Speaker 1 I love his yell. It's so funny.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We got to find a way to do it.

Speaker 2 You know, one of my favorite hooks that we started doing this kind of a couple of years ago or something. We started trying to work on Biden and

Speaker 2 you were doing it. But one of the hooks I like

Speaker 2 is,

Speaker 2 and that's no hyperbole. No hyperbole.
He says that a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 My father lost his job. No joke.
That was the first one.

Speaker 2 No joke. No joke.
No, no joke. No joke.
Not kidding around here. Come on.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Number one. Yeah.
What the guy said.

Speaker 2 Nazi's killed six million Jews. No joke.

Speaker 1 No joke.

Speaker 1 Well, I thought that was a joke.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 That was the first hook into him. Now, in fact, is a lot.
And guess what?

Speaker 1 You know, there's a lot. You know, it went up.
I know how to create jobs.

Speaker 2 I know how to create them.

Speaker 1 I don't know how to be a job creator. He goes to the whisper, and then he goes back to the yeller.
But there's a lot lot there for sure.

Speaker 1 And then we had Perot was dropped into our lap during to just follow that sequence.

Speaker 2 Well, remember that I, you know, I just saw Perot

Speaker 2 and I got a tape and we went in Lauren's office and showed you Perot. Yep.
And you said, oh, there's a three-dimensional

Speaker 1 fully fledged character.

Speaker 1 There he is. Yeah, it was like Sarah Palin and Ross Perot are sort of bookends of three-dimensional, comedically already funny characters that just walked on the stage.

Speaker 1 Perot was like next level funny as a kid.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he was. And then we did a cold opening.

Speaker 1 And you wrote the very first one, and it was a very funny take. Do you remember? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It was, yeah, basically him saying, you don't have to pay me anything.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But if we GP, if gross domestic product goes up 4%, I get a billion dollars.

Speaker 2 It was like,

Speaker 2 and then he called the next, you know, he called on Monday

Speaker 2 at 9 a.m., of course, and we got in at 2 p.m. and a receptionist

Speaker 2 got us on with him. And you and I were on, and he was not interested in the writer at all.
He was interested in you. Yeah.
Yeah. Of course, of course.

Speaker 1 But he would, he, at least he seemed to be a good sport. He was a good sport about it.

Speaker 2 I mean, he, he said, you know, here's an idea.

Speaker 1 I think most, yeah, goes were, this is a great idea. You go out and campaign as me, and I campaigned as me.
So it'd be two of me campaigning all over the place.

Speaker 2 I mean, he just thought that was the precisely what he said. Yes, yes, that's exactly what he said.

Speaker 1 You don't have to write anything with it.

Speaker 2 I know. And

Speaker 2 no. And,

Speaker 2 well, you played both Perot and Bush.

Speaker 2 And lucky Spade got to be

Speaker 1 full full circle.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Got to be in the wide shot.

Speaker 1 As

Speaker 2 fucking wide shot production.

Speaker 1 So David, David had to get the hair, the nose, the ears, the suit, everything to look like Perot. I'm so stupid.

Speaker 3 I didn't even know what was going on.

Speaker 2 I thought, am I doing Perot?

Speaker 3 I go, I guess Dana can't through the magic of TV.

Speaker 3 And bad luck, he could. And I do remember seeing Perot on something.
And obviously, I wasn't a political guy.

Speaker 3 And I was like, Al, what you were saying is if you're just a casual viewer, you get, you know, I understood the cold opening stuff.

Speaker 3 I didn't get the second layer of jokes, but I was just, I wasn't political, so I didn't even really, wasn't about Republican, Democrat. I was just going, is this funny or not? Whatever.

Speaker 3 And they were always great.

Speaker 3 And then when Perot was on something on the weekend, like a meet the press, I accidentally saw, I thought,

Speaker 3 oh, this, look at this little clown. This is hilarious.
And he was, he was like, someone gets to go do a stand-ups act, you know, because he's already funny. And I go, and he was a little pip squeak.

Speaker 3 And I go, oh, maybe I could. And that's how out of it I was.
By the time I called Smiglin, I just said, hey, is there any ways we got it covered?

Speaker 2 I'm like,

Speaker 1 I got it down.

Speaker 1 Probably even more fun than George Bush Sr. at least this phrase.
You're not listening. Can I finish one time?

Speaker 1 Just that to me.

Speaker 2 Can I one time?

Speaker 1 You're not listening. Can I finish one time?

Speaker 2 Or are you getting

Speaker 1 losing me can i finish one time it's like james brown or something can i finish one time hit me yeah

Speaker 2 well that's the thing is that you you know your impressions are musical in in many ways uh it's all chopped it goes all back to chopping chopping broccoli yeah on the first show once once i had the chop she chop she chop i know i have no excuse for it except that i think I'm trying to make myself laugh and then it just makes me laugh.

Speaker 1 Someone going, Cafe, one time. Are you going to interrupt me?

Speaker 2 It's so goofy and cartoony. One time.

Speaker 1 But he did say something like that.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 it's all making yourself laugh. That's all it is.
That's it. People ask me, what is your favorite?

Speaker 2 You know, what's your favorite moment from Saturday Night Live? 15 seasons you did.

Speaker 2 And I say my favorite thing of Saturday night was three in the morning, rolling on the floor, laughing with the writers, with the cast members, just, and part of,

Speaker 2 you know, Woody Allen once said that writing comedy is either easy or it's impossible.

Speaker 2 When it's easy, and it's your friggin job. It's what you're supposed to do.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 this stuff is making. you laugh.
And, you know, and it could be Downing on a Riff. It could be you coming up with, you know, you and Neil and doing Hans hans and franz

Speaker 2 it can be bye bye it can be

Speaker 3 you know and you just are going like at that moment of creation that someone's doing something and you just it's so funny but it's the added thing of we just did our job really well yeah so sometimes at rewrite table it could be four in the afternoon or four in the morning and if someone cracks the code on something and everyone starts laughing and then everyone riffs on it it that's the funnest time because everyone's good at the table so everyone's throwing in something good from right and left.

Speaker 3 And you go, wow, this has really jumped this sketch way ahead of where it was.

Speaker 2 I saw David Tell the other day or

Speaker 2 a couple of months ago, actually, at the comedy seller. And I just said, he was at the table for a year or something.
And

Speaker 2 he wrote, do you remember?

Speaker 2 the Bobbits, you know, she cut off his penis and that thing.

Speaker 2 And I was doing a Stewart with, I guess, Myers was the guy and

Speaker 2 Rosie O'Donnell was Lorna Bobbitt. And

Speaker 2 I had a line that I didn't have the punch to. I go, so how did it feel? Or how does it feel now?

Speaker 2 And Attel's line was, it itches.

Speaker 2 And boy, it just,

Speaker 2 when someone does something like that, you know,

Speaker 2 it just,

Speaker 2 it's such such a gift to have that table. And then sometimes the table is so deadly

Speaker 2 like at three in the morning.

Speaker 1 Well, I just remember like a lot of food, like guys around the table and some women, of course, on 17th floor. And I'm thinking, it is kind of like nothing's going on.
Like, it seems like the deadest

Speaker 1 space in the world. And there's Chinese food or pizza.
Everyone's leaning back in their chair, tapping the pencil.

Speaker 3 Window is cracked one inch because everyone's dying in there.

Speaker 2 And you can't believe this is going to be a show.

Speaker 1 But you told me once, Al,

Speaker 1 you told me that I peaked at read-through, you know, and that really helped me going forward. Sometimes you try to get it on so hard in your first year that you literally never get back to it.

Speaker 1 You've peaked at read-through, and you definitely don't want to peak at dress unless you're at war to get it on air. You want to leave a little something.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 3 there's a lot of inside baseball about if you have an insider with Al, if Al's writing with you and you're a direct and you're a read-through, I think it's a little easier to pull back because he's going to be in the room saying he's going to bring it up.

Speaker 3 So, you at least have a part

Speaker 2 there were years

Speaker 2 I was in the room, and I was interested to hear Downey kind of talk about the most fun he had at the show was when he just was writing and not producing.

Speaker 2 And there was a little, there was a little, it was nice to be able to go in there and express your opinion and on what gets what gets picked for read-through and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 But also, yeah, it, it, uh,

Speaker 2 there's something nice about just being a writer, too. And also, I was performing every once in a while.

Speaker 1 Well, as a cast member, you want to hook up with someone who has Lauren's ear and Lauren trusts, you know,

Speaker 1 in the in the room after the read-through. That's always a nice thing to do for people who are just beginning cast members.

Speaker 3 Al, we can't uh go without talking about stuart smalley i remember the the um michael jordan one was probably such a huge home run that one's that one's that was a peak on it greatest sketches yeah yeah that was that was i mean uh kill killer well and and he was uh

Speaker 2 i think he was cracking up or something too much or something in dress

Speaker 2 and i just said

Speaker 2 just dial it you know and he understood it. I mean, so here's a guy, you know, he's a very, I, oh, you know, when, remember when uh, Lorne hosted or produced the Espies?

Speaker 2 I don't know if you remember. Maybe you weren't around for that.
So he

Speaker 2 sponsored,

Speaker 2 produced, produced the Espies. And so I was a presenter and I did this joke and it died.
And I thought it was a great joke. And this was the year they did the second three-peat,

Speaker 2 right?

Speaker 2 The Bulls did.

Speaker 2 So I went up there and I just said, and remember, this is a lot of athletes and a lot of people in sports, but I just go like, you know, a lot of people are saying that Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player who ever lived.

Speaker 2 Well, all I can say is, Michael, prove it.

Speaker 2 And it just lay there.

Speaker 3 It's not the right crowd.

Speaker 2 They just go, he has proven it.

Speaker 2 That was our attitude yeah

Speaker 3 is this guy

Speaker 2 i remember that laying an egg so bad and i went oh okay this is not a comedy crowd

Speaker 3 jordan jordan at that show running around was such a big deal that was so much fun was he kind of the biggest guest in that way

Speaker 2 jordan that when we were there i think i mean i in a way i mean he's uh i remember that was the first time we were fielding NBA players in the Olympics.

Speaker 2 And I just said to him, so how do you think you're going to do?

Speaker 2 And it was like him and magic. I mean,

Speaker 2 you know, it was like ridiculous. And he said, oh, and he was so

Speaker 2 confident. And of course, they just kill everybody.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And without even trying, really.

Speaker 2 It was, but I just remember the

Speaker 2 exuding confidence.

Speaker 1 And the

Speaker 1 competitive, he had a moment with me. He goes, do you golf?

Speaker 2 I go, well, a little bit here and there.

Speaker 1 I go, but I'm lucky to break 100, you know. And he paused, he looked at me, and he's towering over me.
He goes, well, you're not very good, are you?

Speaker 2 That's what he's going to say. Let's play.
That's unnecessary, Michael. Well, he's famously.
You don't seem very athletic. Yeah, you don't seem very athletic.

Speaker 3 He bets a lot on golf, and he bets like each hole, and he bets because I golf, and

Speaker 3 I'm not very good either, but

Speaker 3 it's fun, the stories you hear from Caddies and these great golf courses where he comes in and sweeps people, and he loves it, loves it. He's just always looking for some action, which is great.

Speaker 3 It's a cool thing about him. People love Michael Jordan.

Speaker 1 Well, I think athletes, athletes just kind of blow our minds. Old movie stars when Robert Mitchum came on, Charlton Heston, or Wayne Gretzky.
Wayne Gretzky showed me how to hold a hockey stick.

Speaker 1 Wayne Gretzky got on his knees and laced up my skates and showed me how to do that.

Speaker 2 So there's moments where you're like, damn, and the musicians as well.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I wasn't there for Peyton Manning, but I thought, did you see that chat?

Speaker 1 I wasn't, but I thought he was hysterical on the show. I saw it.

Speaker 2 He was fabulous. Yeah.
There were a number of

Speaker 2 these guys who were just really, really good. And

Speaker 2 some of them were loxes.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 but they were almost funny being loxes. Do you remember a piece we Tom and I wrote this?

Speaker 2 Trying to figure out

Speaker 2 who was there, which one you were there.

Speaker 2 It was Joe Montana and he was Walter Payton.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, but on this one, Joe Montana, who was kind of a lox.

Speaker 3 Thinking out loud. Thinking out loud that one?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
It was, it was, it starts off with

Speaker 2 Phil and Jan, and he's trying to get her to stay the night. And, and it's that cliche of he says something, and then you hear what he's thinking.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then she says something, and we played it. Tom and I wrote it so that you thought that was the sketch, that that we thought that was the comedy.

Speaker 2 And if you're watching it, you're going like, this is kind of lame. This is a device that people use a lot.
And then his roommate comes and Phil's going, oh, no.

Speaker 2 And he says, this guy, you know, my roommate is the most honest guy there is. And then at one point he goes, you know, he says, it's nice to meet you.
And then his thought is, it's nice to meet her.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 then the last line was, I'm going to go upstairs and masturbate.

Speaker 2 And then. I'm going to go upstairs and masturbate was his thought.

Speaker 2 And my God, it was so funny. And it was primarily funny because he was a locks.

Speaker 1 Well, and he was competitive with himself i i was told that he wouldn't come out of his dressing room it had to at the end of the show he thought he didn't do well that kind of thing

Speaker 2 i go you're a football player what do you thought but i got to play catch with him he did fine he was funny no way not to do well as an athlete bill russell did well

Speaker 2 uh did really well i just

Speaker 3 I did a I did a roast with Peyton and

Speaker 3 I didn't see his SNL, but I thought it would be fun to have Peyton in there. And he crushed it.
He's crushing, you know, they wrote him jokes, but he delivered them. He was great.

Speaker 3 He got huge laughs, huge applause. He's always, he's got a very light, funny thing about him.
And that's why I think he's in all these commercials and does that Manning cast. It all works.

Speaker 2 You know what I've discovered in comedy? Some people are funny

Speaker 2 and some people aren't.

Speaker 2 Is that really?

Speaker 3 In all your days, that's what you've come up with.

Speaker 1 Do you guys think, like, you were there at at the beginning?

Speaker 3 There were 900 of us, Dana.

Speaker 1 That was, you know, one of Lauren's great things. There's only about funny people.
There's only 900 of us on the planet.

Speaker 1 And it was kind of like the perfect number, right?

Speaker 1 Yes. Since Al, you were there in 75.
I just want to ask you this question.

Speaker 1 Was anyone cognizant of the idea of taking a football player or a dramatic actor or whatever and forcing them to become a live sketch player?

Speaker 1 The reality show aspect of Saturnite Live that sustains it. Because if you see a football player or a singer trying to do this and they're kind of bad, it's still compelling, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. You know, the first one we had was Fran Tarkinton.
There you go. Wow.
And that was Franny's idea. That was my wife's idea.

Speaker 1 Because of the namesake a little bit.

Speaker 2 Fran Tarkenton and Franny.

Speaker 3 And how was it?

Speaker 2 He was very good.

Speaker 3 Old Vikings quarterback for the audience.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yes. This is this going back a ways.
And,

Speaker 2 you know, he wasn't the greatest who had ever done it, but

Speaker 2 he was, he was very good. And I remember Belushi for that.
We did a cold opening where Belushi is like a coach. We did a football, some lot of football theme thing.

Speaker 2 And Belushi made me go back to his apartment and read to me Dick Butkus's autobiography.

Speaker 2 And I had to stay there like all night, you know, hours while he read this thing.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he worshiped Dick Butkus, who is a linebacker for everyone, for

Speaker 2 the Bears. Chicago Bears.

Speaker 1 I did a TV show with Dick Butkus

Speaker 1 and Bubba Smith called

Speaker 1 it was with James Farrentino.

Speaker 1 And it was this helicopter cop show.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Airwolf.
No, no, it was an Airwolf.

Speaker 1 Blue Thunder, the cop show. Blue Thunder, yeah.
I played the Daniel Smith.

Speaker 2 Would you play on it? Well, Well, I played it. I take some flavor about that.

Speaker 1 I played the sidekick in the back of the chopper with a helmet on. Clinton Wonderlove, just another frustrated observer.
Like, I wanted to be out.

Speaker 3 Clinton Wonderlove?

Speaker 2 That was your dumbass.

Speaker 1 James Farrentino would have a styrofoam cup full of vodka, and he would smash the pages of the script on the thing and yell at the crew. It was like Scarface.
What year was this?

Speaker 2 What year was this? I just did

Speaker 3 stuff in 84.

Speaker 1 I had no confidence that I could be on Saturday Night Live, really. So when people said I luckily got cast and things, I just did them and they were a complete waste of time.
And I got fired,

Speaker 1 but I got into the outfit, went into the fake chopper. They're going around blowing steam at us.
And then they said, Dana, come down the ladder in front of the whole crew. They fired me.

Speaker 1 And I had to do the perp walk and go just in front of everyone. I go to the wardrobe guy, really nice guy, and I go, I'm a comedian.
I'm funny. This is like 84.

Speaker 1 He put his hand on my shoulder and said, shh, it's okay.

Speaker 2 It's okay, son.

Speaker 1 And then he saw me like eight years later in 93. He goes, you were right.

Speaker 2 What the fuck?

Speaker 1 What were you doing in a helicopter? I had a very strange route to SNL. I mean, you saw me once, right out.
You were in 84.

Speaker 2 I probably did. I did, and I blew it.
I blew it. I saw you doing stand-up in San Francisco.
I probably wasn't.

Speaker 2 That guy is brilliant. But you know what? You weren't ready.

Speaker 2 You were ready a year later.

Speaker 1 I would just say, confidence until you're kind of famous, is a wide range of how you'll be on a given night.

Speaker 1 And if you lose a little bit of confidence, at least for me, I don't know about Dave Chappelle.

Speaker 2 You know what? I don't know.

Speaker 1 Or Robin Williams, but yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 I don't think I was the best judge to do this. You know,

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 that year, that was the year we came back from being gone, right? That Lauren came back to being gone. Yes.

Speaker 1 85.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 we picked Lovitz that year. We got

Speaker 2 a few good people, but I think there were some people that we missed that were really, that

Speaker 2 ended up being real huge.

Speaker 3 It's always easier after the fact to say, oh, why didn't you pick that person? But when you see them, sometimes it's too raw or too rough or they haven't developed. And you just,

Speaker 3 it's an easier mix.

Speaker 1 It's better to wait. You know, there are people sometimes they'll put them on when they're not ready.
They're 21 or 22 and not ready.

Speaker 1 But for me to get on with Phil and Jan, frequently do the church chat sketch. Rosie Schuster was the one who was helping me form.
I had the character, but the platform.

Speaker 1 Then all these religious scandals happen.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Al came on and you did Swaggert, right? So throughout that first year,

Speaker 2 I think I did Pat Roberts.

Speaker 1 Pat Robertson. And then Phil did Swaggert.
And then they did Tammy Faber. So I have this church like J.D.
Clady character. I get fat.
Perfect. Yeah.
And then these scandals start happening.

Speaker 1 And so, but that, that was, that was fun. You doing Pat Robertson, like laughing or crying.
I mean, but it was a very funny take on Pat Robertson.

Speaker 2 My Pat Robertson was just very happy. Yeah.
That was, that was the key to him. He was just

Speaker 2 very joyful. There's a woman in Ohio who's just had her diver ticulitis cure.
Divertic.

Speaker 2 Funny words. Something like that.

Speaker 2 But he was just happy. He was a happy Christian.

Speaker 1 And you started laughing.

Speaker 2 That was my take on him.

Speaker 1 Phil was crying, and then we closed in on a close-up or something like that. And you're just like two idiots, not talking.

Speaker 2 Anyway. And I heard you, maybe it was on, it was, maybe it was with

Speaker 2 Jim about how

Speaker 2 they censored church bleeding and you just became dirtier. Yeah.
And it was fun.

Speaker 1 I couldn't say penis, but I could say throbbing, bulbous organ, willing as many mallet.

Speaker 1 Naughty parts, sweating and grinding. Yeah, so that it was, it became, yeah, it was pornographic to me.
I don't know, but that was a

Speaker 2 well, all they cared about was is someone going to complain. Yeah.
And they're not, they could complain about penis because it's penis. Right.
But they're not going to complain about throbbing.

Speaker 1 Throbbing, naughty parts.

Speaker 3 Doomer Andrew Brewer, who is our kind of cool sensor guy, he wrote us after he wrote into the podcast

Speaker 3 because we've talked about him. But we always say positive things.
He's always in like a tough position. And he'd always go, guys, come on, you can't do this when you're not saying pussy like that.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, no,

Speaker 3 what do you mean? We always play dumb. What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 Oh, that's right.

Speaker 2 You had that very

Speaker 2 indistinct. Oh, that's right.
You remember that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
What was that? Yeah, I still have it between my legs.

Speaker 3 No, it was on weekend update, and

Speaker 3 I sort of mumbled the word pussy, and

Speaker 3 Dennis was like, Spudly, I wouldn't mess this one up. You're going to be fucking out of here.
You're already teetering on a thread.

Speaker 2 I'm like, what? Thanks, man.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 3 so I said the in-and-out list, you know, I think the out list was going out after the show, getting out of fuzzy.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, the in was.

Speaker 3 I was saying, you're not, oh, in is not enunciating enough to get caught by the sensors, and then the out was going and getting some hussy.

Speaker 2 And then it's like

Speaker 3 walking the hallway and Andrew's shaking his head, walking at me, going, Spade, come here.

Speaker 1 And I go, What?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 3 I know, I have no idea what you're going to ask me. And then he goes, Come on, dude.
And I go, but it did pretty good address. So he goes, come on, you can't.

Speaker 3 We got advertisers saying we pull out if he does this. And so I do it.
And then Dennis is right next to me going, I don't know, Spud. And so I do it and it gets too big of a laugh.

Speaker 3 And Dennis is like, it's curtains for you, guy.

Speaker 2 Did you want

Speaker 2 too big a laugh? Was trouble?

Speaker 3 Yeah, because it means you said it too. Everyone understood it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, I don't know. But I got along really well with most of the censors.
Yeah. You know, Clotworthy, because I know you mentioned him with Jim.
I really like Bill Clotworthy.

Speaker 1 He was a nice guy.

Speaker 2 Yeah. He was a lovely guy.
And

Speaker 2 he stood by a couple of things I did that.

Speaker 2 Do you remember

Speaker 2 first you cry?

Speaker 2 This NBC reporter wrote a book about her having a mastectomy, and it's called First You Cry. And then I did a sketch when we had,

Speaker 2 it was first

Speaker 2 he cries.

Speaker 2 And it was, it was Gilda, unfortunately, in retrospect,

Speaker 2 has a mastectomy, and Bill Murray is her husband. And he just

Speaker 2 goes, you know, it starts feeling really sorry for himself because his wife was so horrible.

Speaker 2 The whole point was that it was satirical, which is, no, a guy doesn't do that. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 That is the joke. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 That was the joke. And so,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 B. Arthur was her like oncologist.

Speaker 2 And she's basically saying this happens all the time. And the fact that he's got a girlfriend now named Bambi is not, you know, is to be expected.

Speaker 2 And, and Clotworthy's wife had had a mastectomy, and he just said to me, I love this sketch. Wow.

Speaker 2 Because he got the satiric

Speaker 2 point of it. And that was, that was when you just went, oh, and I was really good friends with all the sensors because I talked to them all the time.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because my stuff was, you know,

Speaker 2 I had to deal with them all the time.

Speaker 3 Hey, call down. Edgie.
All right, Dana, what else you got for Al, this poor guy?

Speaker 2 for the ringer? I don't know. I wanted.
I'm having fun.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 1 it is fun. Stuart Smalley.
We got to that.

Speaker 3 There's too much. I will have one last thing.
You didn't write Reagan Mastermind, did you? That was a great idea.

Speaker 2 That was Smigles.

Speaker 2 That was Smiggles. I kicked in.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But,

Speaker 2 you know, that had a line that Chippendales had, which was,

Speaker 2 this is the part of the job I hate. And that was Mike Meyer's line when they had to choose between

Speaker 2 Swayze and Swayze and Chris. And,

Speaker 2 you know, it's so hard, you know, they're consulting and Myers goes, this is the part of the job I hate. So

Speaker 2 that was one of my favorite lines. I don't think I wrote that in.

Speaker 2 Downey wrote Chippendale's. I had one.

Speaker 2 My name was on it, but it was because I sat with him while he wrote it.

Speaker 2 That's a good trick.

Speaker 2 I had one thing in it, which was the name Barney.

Speaker 3 Barney, yeah.

Speaker 3 Barney and Adrian, right?

Speaker 2 Barney and Adrian. Adrian? Barney.
Barney. Yeah.
That was Nealon who did that great. Well, Nealon,

Speaker 2 Nealon,

Speaker 2 the greatest attitude player,

Speaker 2 that was what was great. It was like.

Speaker 2 You just knew Nealon could play attitude.

Speaker 2 Downey and I wrote a piece, which was, and then you think about how of the time it was, it was a

Speaker 2 toothpaste ad,

Speaker 2 which had Garrett and Victoria, that Garrett, Tim Meadows, I guess, and Victoria Jackson. And they're pitching it for the Country Music Awards.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 Kevin is the guy who is receiving the pitch. and has

Speaker 2 to say, no, we don't want to put,

Speaker 2 and it ends with this big kiss, right?

Speaker 2 And this is, I can't remember what year it was, but this was not something you would put on the Country Music Awards, a white woman kissing a black guy on

Speaker 2 the lips. And it was Nealon trying to say no without saying that.
Right.

Speaker 3 Saying all the reasons it wouldn't work.

Speaker 2 Well, just,

Speaker 2 you know, just.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that sounds very much.

Speaker 2 I can't remember the lines, but

Speaker 2 you give him attitude, and it was just

Speaker 2 he was a master. Yeah, maybe is he is maybe you could think of something else to do here at this beat.

Speaker 1 I, uh, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Well, that's that's uh, you know, then I ran for the Senate

Speaker 1 Birdie told me that you ran for the Senate, yeah.

Speaker 2 And then, uh,

Speaker 2 yeah, it uh, well,

Speaker 2 look, you guys,

Speaker 2 this idea of doing that, you've had

Speaker 2 you, I love that you're having writers on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I kind of go by like people in high school or college that are just interested in this or interested in comedy.

Speaker 1 It's kind of interesting to hear it just straight from people, their processes, their process, or how it happened and why, and the whimsy of it all, too.

Speaker 1 Just like, where does, where does your inspiration come from, Al?

Speaker 2 You once told me, Dana, that no one should become a comedian unless they have to be a comedian.

Speaker 1 Pretty much.

Speaker 1 I think show business in general is an emotionally violent sport.

Speaker 3 You've said that. I wrote that down.
I thought that was interesting.

Speaker 1 Well, your feelings get hurt a lot, even if you're doing really well. And, you know, my touchstone, as corny as it sounds, is like, I'm still making money doing this.

Speaker 1 And that's pretty cool. I never lost it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, because of the threat. I'm one of 900 people who can.

Speaker 1 I just got an update. There's 900

Speaker 1 and 11. There's some Bangladeshis were funny, and we had someone

Speaker 2 from Metagascar who made some people fall out.

Speaker 2 People fall out.

Speaker 2 Well, guys, thanks.

Speaker 3 Al, thanks for the money. Al, you were great.

Speaker 1 Really, really, really interesting and fun.

Speaker 3 Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

Speaker 1 If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

Speaker 3 Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, and Leah Reese-Dennis of Odyssey.

Speaker 1 Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech.

Speaker 3 Booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

Speaker 1 Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney, and Lauren Vieira.

Speaker 3 Reach out with us any questions to be asked and answered on the show. You can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey.com.
That's audacy.com.