Louis CK Is The Greatest Standup

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Speaker 3 Before we let the way you go. I want to mention before.
Before I go, I want to say something nice about David Spade. Tags are different

Speaker 3 because tags are

Speaker 3 like extra farts. They're just like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 People, if they really liked a joke, they would just, they'd take a long break of applause. And I was like, what the f am I supposed to do? I'm standing there and they're applauding.

Speaker 3 They've shut down my show.

Speaker 1 Louis C.K.,

Speaker 1 I don't want to break, but I kind of gave him a start.

Speaker 1 I hired him as my head writer on the ill-fated or great show, whatever you think about it, Dana Carvey Show.

Speaker 2 The much discussed Dana Carvey show because it's it had its place in history.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it was fun to see him because it's been so long, and he was talking about how nervous he was. He never seemed nervous to me, but uh, it was a new thing watching Colbert and Corell and all that.

Speaker 2 Oh, he was nervous on your show when he was writing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Like 1996, he's like, you know, right out of high school or something, or like

Speaker 1 early 20s or whatever he was. But it was interesting

Speaker 3 to

Speaker 2 for stand-up, for just straight stand-ups, he's in the discussion.

Speaker 1 We do break that down a lot. And I found it interesting just to get into like his methodology of what

Speaker 1 he likes to introduce very uncomfortable premises or

Speaker 1 and gets the audience on their heels a little bit. And then he deconstruction deconstructs it, gets them really laughing, shames them for laughing at the previous one.

Speaker 1 I mean, it is high-level standards.

Speaker 3 It's great.

Speaker 2 The things he was saying about his opener and how he was challenging him, and so it's so

Speaker 2 interesting. I will say that because

Speaker 2 we talked pretty much just straight comedy the whole time, like breaking down everything and how the performance and the joke. And he's such a wordsmith.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 2 I could have gone on. We could do him again easily because we went on and on and on.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 he's a scientist about it and he loves it.

Speaker 2 He also has a book out, Ingram, which is a real book. It's not a comedy book.
It's not his life as a comic.

Speaker 2 Angram is a kind of a bleak,

Speaker 3 riveting,

Speaker 1 riveting story about a young person's journey,

Speaker 1 leaving their home at such a young age and everything they go through.

Speaker 1 So, and it's written, you know, in the world of John Steinbeck or Mark Twain. It's,

Speaker 3 it's leave it to Louie to write this great book with great reviews, yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's it was I watched, I read the first chapter, and I'm like, would never know it was Louie.

Speaker 3 It would just, this is a no, it's just a well-written, interesting,

Speaker 2 yeah, riveting book. Yeah, uh, well, there's Ingram and there's Louis, and uh, he's got he's doing comedy all over, so uh, you know him, and here he is.

Speaker 2 Bad news, Dana could make it.

Speaker 3 Oh,

Speaker 3 oh,

Speaker 3 hey,

Speaker 3 long time no see.

Speaker 2 I know, look at these two.

Speaker 3 You look just the same.

Speaker 2 He doesn't look. He looks good.

Speaker 3 How old were you when I first started? I mean. Hey, I'm for the podcast.

Speaker 2 No, it's already started. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 It's always starting. Yeah.

Speaker 3 We have nothing. We have no notes.
We have no questions. Good.
We have no statements. Good.
It's called Carrying the Podcast with Louis C.K. Yeah.
I have a really nice thing to say to you. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Let's start with it. Really nice thing to say.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's always on.

Speaker 3 Always rolling. So I thought this was kind of sweet, and you would hear it.
Yeah. Like it.
So I read the first chapter, Vingram. Yeah.
And I'm like, holy, holy shit. I mean, what's going on here?

Speaker 3 Like, and my wife is a reader, like, doesn't fiction. Reads everything.

Speaker 3 Everything. So I said, honey, will you read this first chapter? I just went and did a couple of things.
She goes, it's incredible. I just ordered the book.
Wow. Yeah.
Great.

Speaker 3 Because I thought, wow, I can give Louie an honest compliment. No kiss assing.
This is exactly what happened. And I'll put her on the phone if I have to.
But I thought,

Speaker 3 you know, and I talked to Dennis about it. And he goes, Christ's sake, is the C can turning into the next Steinbeck over here?

Speaker 3 I didn't talk to Dennis, but Louie.

Speaker 2 No, I have to say, I was a little shocked too.

Speaker 2 Louie has a book called Ingram.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Ingram.

Speaker 2 And I just read the first chapter because Dana was talking about it. Yeah.
He sent me the book. And

Speaker 2 I was astonished that it's one more different move that.

Speaker 2 Listen, comedians write books. Sure.
I wrote a book about my life. I wrote a book about stupid books and books.
Mine's wacky and stupid, exactly what you think.

Speaker 2 A five-year-old could do mine. But it was, even from the first paragraph, I'm like, okay, this is, I wouldn't know who did this.
You know what I mean? It's not like, oh, this is typical Louis.

Speaker 2 It's just like a writer writing a great book.

Speaker 3 The fact that our little character, our guy, you get so attached because all this stuff's happening and he's just describing it.

Speaker 3 You know, he's not emotional or you know, yeah, and it's so it's getting you in a different way where you're invested already. Like, what is going to happen to this little person? Yeah.
You know, so

Speaker 3 it's amazing.

Speaker 3 I would love to think I could do that, but I can't. I hope the second chapter is as good.

Speaker 3 It really falls apart. Well, I don't know.
I mean, the art of it, just

Speaker 3 the sentence construction. So you've got your narrative in a way, you've got your story, and then it's like, without giving it away,

Speaker 3 how will I describe his dad walking by? Yeah. You know, and I guess you're just, it's a discipline, and you're just really going.
And when you get it, you're high as a kite, right? Well, one sentence.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I had never done this before. I've written fiction.
I've written short stories, which I've never done anything with. It's what I really want to do when I was a kid, you know, more than anything.
And

Speaker 3 so I just started doing it the last few years. And this thing came because I just wanted to hear, I read a lot of American fiction,

Speaker 3 like Flannery O'Connor,

Speaker 3 Mark Twain, and, you know,

Speaker 3 Faulkner, guys like that.

Speaker 3 But also, like, you know,

Speaker 3 what's her name?

Speaker 3 The

Speaker 3 Mockingbird. I'm really bad with names.
Killer Mockingbird. Irma Bomback.

Speaker 3 I'm just kidding. Susan Mockingbird.
Yeah, Susan Mockingbird.

Speaker 3 Why don't we know her name? Susan Mockingbird

Speaker 3 was

Speaker 3 Harper Harper Lee. Harper Lee.
Yeah. So anyway, there's this thing about the American voice, like the way that Americans, that there's an eloquence to it.

Speaker 3 Also, I read a lot about Abraham Lincoln and like he was like educated by somebody who knew two things more than him. Right.
But there's this way that American.

Speaker 3 like soil speaks and I wanted to feel that voice somehow. I wanted to see, do I have that in me? You know, I was raised here.
I was a boy in America.

Speaker 3 And I started to write this kids, this kid started talking to me. And I cared about him, and I wanted to see what I felt like writing him was a way of taking care of him.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but these terrible things kept happening to him, and I would just go, Oh, it's rough.

Speaker 2 It's a rough beginning.

Speaker 3 Why am I doing this?

Speaker 3 I wish I had another way. But the way I can take care of him is to give as honest and accurate an account of what he's feeling and how he's seeing it.
And I kept being impressed that he

Speaker 3 just sees it and he reflects on it, and he's poetic about it, even sometimes humorous about it.

Speaker 3 And he just processes what's happening to him. And

Speaker 3 he says when it hurts, but he doesn't complain when it hurts. You know what I mean? Yeah.
He just tries to do

Speaker 2 very old school.

Speaker 3 I'm fascinated by

Speaker 3 a lot of things.

Speaker 3 You know, I went to state college, but I didn't go to any college.

Speaker 3 They're over me. Yeah.
Who else didn't go to college? It's a genius. All comedians.

Speaker 3 Chris Rock.

Speaker 3 The power of the spoken word. So we have all this

Speaker 3 media coming out, all different kinds. Yeah.
But I'd gone a few years ago and I went to the Lincoln Memorial and we're inside and I just looked up.

Speaker 3 I read the Gettysburg address and I just had tears coming down.

Speaker 3 The power of the spoken word is still number one with the bullet. I'm Casey Kasim.
There's still nothing more powerful

Speaker 3 than the written American word. The original American word.

Speaker 3 So that's why I can't imagine the satisfaction, and I assume you've gotten a lot of feedback on accomplishing that you know it's a it's quite an achievement well I got I was sort of anxious as I read it wrote it that I would not finish it I knew that there was a whole story to tell I knew it was a book after about three days I was like this is a book I got to tell a long story here I didn't know where it was going I didn't oh you didn't have it like mapped out like a movie no I didn't do that I just would sit down every day and go so what happened and he's getting farther away from the house so what happened yeah like does he go?

Speaker 3 Okay, so you're speaking to the book in real time. Yeah.
So, what happened today? What happened today? Yeah. What happened now? And then there were points where I kind of felt like that's part one.

Speaker 3 Like, it just hit me. That's part one.
And we're going to later, or maybe we're going to right after, but something has shifted. Right.

Speaker 3 And I would feel his voice start to get more eloquent as he got older, which in a sense doesn't make sense because it's all in past tense.

Speaker 3 The one thing that kept me feeling okay about it was that it was all in the past tense. So I'm like, well, he's not dead.
And you can control.

Speaker 3 You're still the puppet master.

Speaker 3 I never feel that way, though, with fiction. I feel like it's driving you.
I feel like I've got a responsibility to report what sort of the story.

Speaker 2 But you're like, I can't do this. It won't make any sense right here.

Speaker 3 Right. Well, it's kind of like carving a sculpture.
It's like the rock is there.

Speaker 3 You can try to find something in it, but it's not up to you what's really there. You know what I mean? In a sense, that's a little bit.

Speaker 3 I think one of the hard parts, if you, if with ADD

Speaker 3 prevalent is like you get to an idea and you go 25 pages like, God, should I

Speaker 3 have this other idea?

Speaker 3 Yeah, maybe I'll go to this other idea. So stick to one thing for that long a time.

Speaker 3 I didn't think I could do that, but I've done a lot of work over the last few years on myself and on my

Speaker 3 what's going on in here. So I've got a calmer spirit.
So I'm more able. I wrote another book after this one.
I wanted to be able to. So I just wanted to keep going.

Speaker 2 How long does it take for this one?

Speaker 3 Spirit? Yeah, it's right. It's good.

Speaker 3 Well, that's the whole thing. Yeah.
That's what Jesus said to his disciples. Peace be with you.
Peace I give you. Peace.
Peace.

Speaker 3 Absolutely. I don't remember that.
Oh, yeah. He talked a lot about it.
Peace be with you. Which movie did he say that?

Speaker 3 The one with

Speaker 3 Passion of the Community. What's his name?

Speaker 3 Melvin Gibson. Yes.
Melvin Gibson's coming out with the resurrection. He's going to.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well,

Speaker 3 that's a nice thing about it. Did you go to church when you were a kid or do you say? Lutheran, lapsed Lutheran.
Now I'm a Catholic.

Speaker 3 So I grew up in Catholic church and you'd turn to your neighbors and say, peace be with you. Yes.
And I always liked that part of it.

Speaker 3 That is my current favorite part. Yeah.
Because I realized that is the greatest gift. You

Speaker 3 shake hands with somebody next to you.

Speaker 3 You shake hands. You say something kind of old and funny feeling.
Peace be with you. You don't say that.
In real life. No, when you're leaving the farmer's market.

Speaker 3 To the valet. To the valet.
You're connected.

Speaker 2 And when they get money, someone tightens up.

Speaker 3 They go put a quarter in, and Danny goes, Yeah, I don't like this part.

Speaker 3 You foster more empathy. You become a better person, you know.

Speaker 3 You're just fostering these teachings from 2,000 years ago. Yeah.
You don't agree, though. You seem a little against it.

Speaker 2 No, I got lost a little bit ago.

Speaker 3 Johnny.

Speaker 3 He's still on Ingram.

Speaker 2 How do you spell that name? I saw him like I-G, no. Yeah.
I-N-G.

Speaker 2 And Ingram was his name.

Speaker 3 That's right. That's right.

Speaker 3 He is a spoken. Didn't Chatner do a spoken word album on Ingram? It's going to come out later.
I hope so.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I would want that, like an

Speaker 3 interpretation. Didn't like the gray highway,

Speaker 3 whatever he called, the gray arms high swing. The hard gray road.
The hard gray road.

Speaker 2 Arms swinging like tools in the shed in the wind, possibly.

Speaker 3 Something like that, right? That was his dad, yeah.

Speaker 3 What makes me thought, did it make you go back to your own childhood? Because we all, I mean, he had a really silver spoon, easy childhood. Where'd you grow up?

Speaker 2 I'm the Joe Dirt guy.

Speaker 3 I'm Arizona.

Speaker 3 He had some rough and were you Joe Dirt or Joe Dirty Dirty Dirty?

Speaker 2 I was a little bit like that. Even Ingram reminded me of that a little bit.

Speaker 2 It's starting from sort of nothing and then parents are gone, you know, and in the, I don't want to give the whole movie a book away. But I grew up in Arizona, you know, middle, lower, whatever.

Speaker 2 Dad left, so we had three boys, mom just trying to work and two jobs to keep us around.

Speaker 2 But trying to be home, but also how much do you pay a babysitter? Yeah. That's how much he's making.

Speaker 3 But once the dad splits on a dime there's really no plan it's just are you guys good that's what my mom was raised as a loan my dad left when i was 10 okay and my mom worked my dad didn't contribute yeah anything exactly yeah either way so my mom was like all right guys

Speaker 3 four kids and she's like wow i got a microwave that was the big move we got a microwave and there's a lean cuisine in the shed yes don't fight over that yeah that's on the good night Hot dogs are 30 seconds each.

Speaker 3 I remember her telling us

Speaker 3 that's how you figure out how long to microwave anything. You just micro hot dogs, 30 seconds.
So if it looks like two, make it 60.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean? Like the size of a hot dog was the unit. That's nice.
And she came home at seven at clock. And sometimes I'd want to make her something, you know.
But I was alone.

Speaker 3 And I grew up in a suburb. So we just own the kids just owned the streets.
You just went out. Yeah.
Nobody knew where you were.

Speaker 3 yeah child support was optional back then yes there's only one thing a lot of people passed on it then yeah it's weird isn't it that they were like my dad took a hard pass there is one thing worse than the dad leaving yeah what's that dad stays stays and he's yes it is definitely i'm not i'm glad my dad wasn't around yeah you did you i'm glad he wasn't around did you ever reconcile with him or he uh for like a few minutes yeah oh okay yeah we had like a 12-minute conversation that felt like

Speaker 3 I'll take that that's good he's like we good here yeah that's yeah sure

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Speaker 3 What about you, you're cute here?

Speaker 2 Nice. Tough dad.
Grew up. Tough dad?

Speaker 3 Tough dad? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 He,

Speaker 3 yeah, saw some stuff.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I just was, I got, for better or for worse, I got a Disney face when I was, you know. That's how you survived? I was a Disney face.

Speaker 3 So I'd go on stage and I'd have shaggy hair and I'd be in all these voices and laugh my ass off.

Speaker 3 And people would go, well, you had a great child. I mean, look at you.

Speaker 3 And it was all just an illusion. Of course it was.
But

Speaker 3 it goes to some pretty dark places. Same, yeah, same.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, being a boy is, I mean, that's the one I know, and I know it's tricky.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And you're a little alone in it.
There is a cultural thing of like, you do this, you know, for boys. It's on you, at least for our generation, maybe my generation.
Like, this is on you.

Speaker 3 And I did have a great mom. My mom was a fantastic person.
And she was very, she was raising four kids by herself while working. So

Speaker 3 she had limits that were just there.

Speaker 3 But she was a great friend, especially in adulthood, like later. Yeah.
She was the best phone call I would ever have. I still, she's the voice I reach to.

Speaker 3 I think that, you know, the word hero is tossed off a lot, but a single mom working full-time with four kids and making it through. Yeah.
Just getting everyone through.

Speaker 3 The sacrifice of getting everyone through. Her life is just on the way.

Speaker 2 Nothing. Deep.
No dating. No, no.

Speaker 3 Oh, forget it. Forget that.
Just,

Speaker 2 are you okay? Do you have a food? Do we leave an apple? Are you.

Speaker 3 That's it. And then a little humor, always a little

Speaker 3 humor. She was always like, hey.

Speaker 3 I remember once I was going off to school and I was in a lot of trouble. I had just caused a lot of problems and I was going to school to face them.

Speaker 3 And my mom said to me on the way out the door, hey, don't let them get you down that bad. We love you here at home.
You're loved. Jeez, whatever.

Speaker 3 That's how she sent me out the door like, this isn't the end of the world. Like, go face it, but

Speaker 3 fuck them a little bit. Did you feel

Speaker 3 them? I feel smart thing to say to a kid.

Speaker 2 I was scared to stress my mom out.

Speaker 3 So, you know, I do something wrong in school or bad grades. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I was getting good grades, and I'm like, I got to keep this shit up because she gets so happy.

Speaker 3 I couldn't do it. I had terrible grades.
Yeah. And I had a period of just doing a lot of drugs.
And I stressed her out a lot. It hurt to see her how stressed out she was.

Speaker 2 Did you tell her I will be a millionaire soon?

Speaker 3 I never just relaxed her a little bit. But I did.

Speaker 3 She did get to see it happen. That's the greatest.

Speaker 2 Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 I would give 100% of it to my mom.

Speaker 3 I would never have gotten to see it. Anyone who comes from nothing and then

Speaker 3 gets on TV and makes a lot of money. It's like a fever dream.
It's almost like, did it really, is it really, did it happen? You mean for the family?

Speaker 3 The family, my siblings or myself, the likelihood of it, you know, I would tell, I get laughed out of the room.

Speaker 3 And when I started doing stand-up, you know, the neighbors would go, well, whatever you really end up doing, this will kind of help your confidence. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It was nobody, in my high school, nobody has ever gotten on TV. It's not

Speaker 3 a 40 second. It's not even an option.
Not even a story. Do you remember when we were working on your show? There was a Dana Carvey show?

Speaker 3 Let's get into that. On ABC.
On ABC. Two days at 9:30.
Perfect time slot. How do we fumble that home race?

Speaker 3 So that,

Speaker 3 that, there, we had auditions for cast members and a guy named Carrie Prusa auditioned.

Speaker 3 And he was a wonderful. I don't know where he is now, but he did one of his, he did characters.
Yes. He just stood in the room and there was like five of us.

Speaker 3 And one of his characters was my uncle when I told him I was auditioning for this show. And his uncle goes, you ain't never going to be on no game.

Speaker 3 Those are professional actors.

Speaker 3 You ain't never going to be on. And we almost wanted to give it to him because of that.
Based on that, despite the ongoing

Speaker 3 yeah yeah but you know but yeah being so but being a boy is uh it is it's it's I feel like Ingram is like me without my mom in a sense or a mom that was just so inundated and so

Speaker 2 the heaviness on a person yeah that she just couldn't she couldn't just had to get well the mom part got to me even in chapter one yeah i haven't gone to the part where he's on star search but

Speaker 3 it takes i know it's where it's at It took me by surprise. This is where it's going.
It's so predictable. This is, this is

Speaker 2 Ingram's like, yeah,

Speaker 2 I did it. I made it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I want to hear more about the show when you guys started.
Who found who? Did you find Louie?

Speaker 3 Smeigo was said, go meet Louie. So we met at Brillstein Gray.
Right.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 He was a fresh-faced kid. Who was handling you?

Speaker 3 I wasn't with Brillston. I was writing on Conan.
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 3 And then I was on Conan for two years, and it just burnt me right out. I remember you saying this on the hard show.
It was just too hard.

Speaker 3 It was because every show, they treated it like it was SNL every night. Like it was every night.
I could imagine.

Speaker 3 So I was like old when it was over and I was 25.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Daily shows are beating because you guys did a lot of bits and sketches.

Speaker 2 It's just like, fuck, it's not.

Speaker 3 And the show is for those two years that I was there, it was just hated. It was.

Speaker 3 You got the hated ones.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 it just was hard, hard, hard, hard, hard. And then I went and wrote for Letterman for a short while because he, I wanted to be on there as a stand-up.

Speaker 3 And I basically got told: if you write on the show, then maybe they'll, if you take the writing job, maybe they'll. So I did it.
And that wasn't a good experience for me. And then

Speaker 3 you guys started your show. Yeah, so you were great.
And you stupid prankster. But think of my point of view.
So I have this show. There's for a reason.

Speaker 3 It's a disaster in a way, but I wanted out even before it started. It was way too dry.
I remember that. Yeah, I was ready to go.

Speaker 3 It was just like, because Heather Morgan would come in and pitching me sketches. I go, I'm what? What? I was just fighting for parts on SNL.
Now I'm in my own show.

Speaker 3 Well, I didn't know I had Steve Corell and Stephen Colbert, who I adored. And the first day I rehearsed with them, I said, I must be rusty.
Right. I must be rusty.
How so?

Speaker 3 Because you because they were just so

Speaker 3 quick,

Speaker 3 10 years younger, no kids. They were just like, yeah, and brilliant.
You know, I must be rusty. But so I'm sitting back in life and I go, oh, Corell's, oh, Colbert.

Speaker 3 Oh, they're...

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's

Speaker 3 two guys, cast members, and their movie stars are incredible. He's got his show and everything.
And like, oh, oh, Louie.

Speaker 3 Oh,

Speaker 3 I almost, almost blushed. Oh, my goodness, Louie.

Speaker 3 Louis became the greatest stand-up, potentially. Well, I hate because I do, he's a nice guy.
But we were here with Andrew Santino. He's this, you know.
Yeah. He's a nice kid.
I do. I like that.

Speaker 3 He's funny, too. Casually, as a throwaway, go, well, Louis's the greatest stand-up.
That's nice. I'm just telling you, I hear that.
It's fun to hear.

Speaker 3 Oh, it feels good to hear. No, does it? Okay, because I don't want it to come off like

Speaker 3 Merv Griffin or something. Santino, he's good.
He's really good. No, you just said it like it was just.

Speaker 3 I don't know that we can talk about that, but it is sort of interesting, that story. I know you told a lot.
You can pick up a story. But you started being honest on stage.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And then it just went from there. Well, I want to say, though, about your show, the Dana Carvey show.

Speaker 2 Taco Bell, Dana Carvey.

Speaker 3 The Taco Bell, sometimes the Mountain Dew, Dana Carvey. Sometimes Empire Six.
After Taco Bell based on it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Jimmy Kimmel, we were losing everybody.

Speaker 3 It wasn't like that.

Speaker 3 I think actually the press was reporting that we were losing

Speaker 3 sponsors, even though

Speaker 3 we engineered it that way. We got PepsiCo to sponsor the show, and we asked them to put a different one of their brands on every week.

Speaker 3 So we were shifted. It was our idea.

Speaker 3 But the press was like, oh, I guess Taco Bell bailed. No, we switched on purpose.
We had a plan.

Speaker 3 But the idea was to get a company, a parent company, that would let us have a different sponsor every week.

Speaker 3 But anyway, for me, I was very young. I was way over my head for the job that I was the head writer of the show.
I don't think so. And I had no idea how to.
It was a stressful guy.

Speaker 3 It was so stressful. It was the most stressful time in my life.

Speaker 2 In my 58

Speaker 3 show i'm sorry that was the most stressful job i ever had but and it i was

Speaker 3 all of that stress melts away i'm left with a massive education i got from it but but working with you was a big deal for me you were legendary how old were you when we did the show 61.

Speaker 3 no uh i was i was 40. isn't that funny that we're

Speaker 3 41 we were younger than all of us we were way younger for 40 is another is light years for me Oh, oh, yeah. And you were the.
But I loved working with you because

Speaker 3 you had this great, deep, traditional

Speaker 3 background of comedy, and you were

Speaker 3 purebred.

Speaker 3 You're just a

Speaker 3 Hall of Fame guy. You're great at what you do.
Thank you. And you still are.

Speaker 3 Are we recording? Yeah, yeah. I just want to make sure.
We just found a clip. So good.

Speaker 3 And you're very kind and you were very generous with sharing your history and stories about where you'd been. And I remember one time, because I was still doing stand-up when I was on that show.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I did my second shot on the Letterman show.

Speaker 3 And I just sort of left work and ran over and did Letterman. And I came back to work.
And

Speaker 3 the next day, you said, weren't you on Letterman last night? And I was like, yes, sir. Like, I was just sort of like a guy that works there.
You go, weren't you on the David Letterman show last night?

Speaker 3 And I said, yeah. And how did it go? And I said, it was good.

Speaker 3 And And so you said, I want to see it. And you went and got someone to get a tape of it.

Speaker 3 And he and I sat in the office, just the two of us.

Speaker 2 When you watch it together?

Speaker 3 And he watched. He said, I want to watch it.
And he watched, we watched it.

Speaker 3 And I was proud of the set. Sure.

Speaker 3 And Dana stood next to the TV and he pointed at the TV afterwards. And he said, Do you understand that

Speaker 3 when I was out there doing what you're doing, being a stand-up? And if you had a set like that back in whatever the 70s or 80s, superstar. You would have been a huge never-to-look back again star.

Speaker 3 Like a Kinnison.

Speaker 3 You'd be

Speaker 3 walk everywhere you'd walk in, they'd give you a standing ovation. You'd be the next guy.
Yeah. So I was right.

Speaker 3 Well, it took a lot of time.

Speaker 3 It took a decade. Which is okay.
It's actually better that way.

Speaker 3 But anyway, that just meant so much to me. Well, I'm glad to hear that.

Speaker 2 It's true. Those are building blocks.

Speaker 3 It's a very nice story. I learned a lot from you.
I quote things you told me. Like, I once pitched a joke to him.

Speaker 3 It was when we were doing my favorite bit we ever did on the show, which was Tom Broca

Speaker 3 recording several versions of

Speaker 3 Nixon's sketches. I was just in.
Gerald Ford. Yes.
Gerald Ford is dead tonight. He was attacked by a circus lion in a convenience store.
So that was the joke. Oh, that was the.
The joke was he was

Speaker 2 preparing in case he died. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yes, in case he died

Speaker 3 cover every fossil one I could throw up. Yes.
Okay.

Speaker 3 So Gerald Ford died today. He was mauled to death by a mountain lion in a convenience store.
And so we did it in the first take.

Speaker 3 In the second take, I approached the desk and said to him, just put a pause between mountain lion and in a convenience store. That was a good note.
And he did it. And it got two laughs.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I love it. And I was just sitting back there.
I was just doing my job. Dana goes like this to me and brings me over and he goes, you bought me an extra laugh.

Speaker 3 Do you understand how powerful that is you bought me an extra laugh that's big you're valuable that was meaningful to me and i say i i repeat that to young comics all the time about timing and about the class of the moment everything i like i do like helping younger comedians i enjoy it i mean with carel and colbert you know um same same kind of thing i they were such gentlemen married they're kind of conservative in that way

Speaker 3 in their real lives. Yes.
And so sweet and earnest, and then obviously so talented. I also loved Heather Morgan.
I loved her. She was so strange and enigmatic.

Speaker 3 I put her in a movie after we did that show. And I loved her.
I don't know where she is now, but she was like a groundling person. The groundling person.
She was so funny.

Speaker 3 Her is, was it Pat Nixon in a cell?

Speaker 3 So her thing was, we did

Speaker 3 first ladies as dogs.

Speaker 3 Yes. And I think you can see it on YouTube or whatever, but but it's her dress.

Speaker 2 She's not biting on that scale.

Speaker 3 It's different First Lady. All the First Ladies, but then she would find a dog that they were like, and she'd do them as dogs.
And it was fucking genius.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Brilliant.
You know what's funny you're saying about that double laugh.

Speaker 2 Like, I mean, Nate Bergazzi comes to mind, but when you're watching and you have an audience that's really in your vibe and they're laughing at setups, like you're getting extra stuff on your way to your big part, it's great.

Speaker 2 When you get a good crowd and you're on your game, there's nothing like a joke turning into three.

Speaker 3 That's right.

Speaker 2 And then some tags.

Speaker 3 Tags are tricky to me. That's different.
Tags are different.

Speaker 3 Because tags are

Speaker 3 like extra farts. They're just like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 It's just

Speaker 3 how much more can we fart this out until the audience.

Speaker 2 And some audiences, you can't fart that much.

Speaker 3 No, you can't. Because they barely buy the punchline.
Yes.

Speaker 2 And you go, here's right. I used to have nine tags.
I'm bailing right now because they didn't buy this part.

Speaker 3 No, right. And sometimes it's like when Muhammad Ali punched out George Foreman.

Speaker 3 There was this incredible one punch, and George starts falling, and he had the next punch cocked, but he never threw it. That's right.

Speaker 2 He knew he was going down. He watched

Speaker 2 it twice down, too. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But he kept it because otherwise it would have been like. Too many tags.

Speaker 3 But I like... A thing I've been doing on stage recently, I'm on tour again now, is

Speaker 3 it's almost like a pre-tag. It's like they haven't laughed yet, but I'm going to stop here.

Speaker 3 Or, like, this is a bad idea to say this, so I'm going to say it and then stop talking. It's interesting if you say something.

Speaker 3 I'll give you

Speaker 3 a little bit of a show, which is the hardest part of every show I do. And

Speaker 3 I don't know, whatever. It'll be out there.
I don't care.

Speaker 3 I'm talking about the hard, what's the worst thing that can happen to you? Like, it's a subject about what's the worst thing. Such a Louis C.K.
Right, what's the worst thing?

Speaker 3 But it's already funny. So, well, because it's somebody that told me, always prepare for the worst.
Right.

Speaker 3 Which means you have to first decide what's the worst. The worst.
Yeah. And so the bit I had been doing was that for me, it's about it would be getting my, somebody torturing my balls.

Speaker 3 And it's a long bit that I'm not going to repeat here about ball torture. And it's all easy laughs.
It's just huge.

Speaker 3 Daniel Craig had it in Casino Royale, I believe. Seated in the chair naked.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and the ball, just all just jokes about ball torture.

Speaker 3 But one night I was doing it, and I said, I'm about to say, for me, the worst would be someone torturing my balls. And I just said, for me, the worst,

Speaker 3 well, besides one of my daughters dying and having to tell the other one that she's dead.

Speaker 3 Yes. And then I just stopped talking.

Speaker 3 And the place just went, ah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I just waited.

Speaker 3 And there's whispering. And awkwardness.
One guy shrieks laughing. And everyone looks at him.

Speaker 2 And I'm just watching the awkward laugh. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm just watching the high wire shit, man. It's so interesting to watch a room change like that and then go, okay, you're done.
All right. Now the ball stuff.
And it still kills. It doesn't hurt.

Speaker 3 The ball stuff is just the ball stuff. We all forget it happened.
But there's a moment in the.

Speaker 2 Pause is the more interesting part.

Speaker 3 It's really something. Something.
I've done charity events where right before me is a terminal patient in a wheelchair. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I thought, oh man, it's over.

Speaker 3 And they need the release

Speaker 3 so bad when I go up that it's actually, you know, because

Speaker 3 you live in the world with that. So it's like if you're being funny, you live in the world where people get hurt and where there's tragedy.
Yeah. It's all in the same world.

Speaker 3 So if you if you toss the salad a little bit more and let these things be next to each other more, it's are you kind of, I mean, I don't know where you're, it just seems like, are you even more playful with the form?

Speaker 3 Yeah. Because you already broke it in the early knots.
There are so many things we don't have to talk about that nobody had ever talked about and made it work. Like the guy who makes the

Speaker 3 latte and you walk away and that word comes in your head.

Speaker 3 Like,

Speaker 3 I watch that in awe. Like, how did he land this? How did he make it okay? So you broke all that.

Speaker 3 So now it seems like you're a Svengali with stand-up and playful with it because you already have your your iconic.

Speaker 3 So, is it more fun in a way to dance outside the lines? So, it's the more you do it, the more the spectrum grows of what you can see is possible.

Speaker 3 And as long as you keep trying, as long as you're willing to be uncomfortable, as long as you're willing to have discomfort in the room.

Speaker 3 So, if you always go for what you know works, that's going to get narrower. Till one day you're going to go, I can't do this anymore.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're bored. That's my act.
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 It's natural. If I have a second of silence, I go crazy.

Speaker 3 Well, also,

Speaker 2 one second.

Speaker 3 One second of silence.

Speaker 2 Well, also, you know, you've got trained audiences. Sometimes they yell out when I have a pause.

Speaker 2 And it's the toughest thing because you want those things you're trying, or you want to just, you need two beats, not just one. You need two before something.
And they get in there.

Speaker 3 If that's the worst, because when you feel that, it makes you go faster.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that throws it off.

Speaker 3 But that's the, like I had a young guy open for me, Dan Dosimo, very funny, young kid who I saw on TikTok

Speaker 3 and wanted to,

Speaker 3 um, it's the only thing I look at in these apps is stand-up because I don't know everybody out there anymore.

Speaker 3 And I saw this new voice, I'd never heard of him before, and uh, he's from Chicago, and I was going there to play the Chicago theaters, actually, just a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 3 So I asked him, come do five minutes at the top of the show. And it's interesting to take a guy who's just really a beginner and make him open a 3,500-seat theater like in a major concert.

Speaker 3 So I watched all of his sets and I gave him a challenge. I said, do a different set every night.
You're doing three nights. And he said, I'll do it.

Speaker 2 Got to work with Louie. My shit is fucking past.

Speaker 3 So first show, he's really killed. I said, great.
Show me something else tomorrow.

Speaker 3 Second show, he did 10 minutes. Killed.

Speaker 3 Third show, I said, you're only doing five. And again, I want a different.
And the crowd was tougher the third show. And

Speaker 3 I saw him go up there like, this has been going great. And I saw him go, whoops.
And then right before the end, he went to a bit I'd seen before.

Speaker 3 And so. Did you spank him?

Speaker 3 He looks so hopeful.

Speaker 2 Was he grounded during your set?

Speaker 3 Well, sometimes, you know, if you say something really good.

Speaker 3 That would have been a good character for you, a guy who always goes there with every information. Did you spank him?

Speaker 3 Very little energy toward it. Did you spank him? Yeah, did you spank him, guys?

Speaker 2 In case you're into it it too, did you spank him?

Speaker 3 Yeah, you go. You did? Yeah, yeah.
That's my catchphrase. But I'm fascinated you're up there.
Oh, so let me just finish with Dan. So I asked him what happened.

Speaker 3 Why'd you go to

Speaker 3 question?

Speaker 3 He said, there was a moment I felt

Speaker 3 the energy drop. I felt, oh, and you're here, you're watching, it's high pressure.

Speaker 3 I said, this is that moment, is everything.

Speaker 3 That panic. Getting past that panic

Speaker 3 without servicing it by doing something safe is going to be your whole thing.

Speaker 3 If you can get past it and go,

Speaker 3 I'm still going to do something that's not necessarily a great idea because this guy, big guy's watching me.

Speaker 3 Fuck him. I got to do this thing.
It's important to me. Yeah.
That's going to make all the difference for you.

Speaker 3 One thing that I found out about myself is I'm just completely different in a small room. Because I can do one-man sketches.
I do the world's first sociopath in ancient times.

Speaker 3 Hey, where's Steve? I don't know. What's that arm coming out of the ground? It's Steve.
I hit him with a rock. Am I weird? I don't know.

Speaker 3 There's only 39 of us on the planet, so you might want to tamp that down. Well, sometimes I leave the tent at night and I scratch myself with bushes.
Oh, that's strange. You're weird, aren't you?

Speaker 3 So I can't do that in 3,000 seats or a corporate date, but in a small room. And then what happens to me, if the audience is not laughing,

Speaker 3 I love it. Because I'm doing something, I'm doing.
You mean in a small room? Yeah. Because I can sense, I see them not laughing, and I'm doing the most ridiculous thing, and that makes me laugh.

Speaker 3 But this is, you know, 50 years in.

Speaker 3 It's so funny when they don't laugh. It's hilarious when they don't laugh.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's fucking, it's the only funny thing in the world.

Speaker 3 It's an unlaughing audience. It's the greatest.
It's hysterically funny. Louis C.K.
plays the silence,

Speaker 3 throws a party at the hotel. When you do a thing and they're just sitting there, you're just like, that's the best.
But you're doing it unfamous, all this stuff. And then you're doing it famous.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 On purpose.

Speaker 2 You know, Dennis Miller, you know, and we love. Yes.

Speaker 2 So was my favorite, still is one of the top guys out there. And

Speaker 3 he's such a wordsmith.

Speaker 2 And so I was opening for him. Great.
And he saw me. He says, why don't you come on the road? Same thing.
It's like a huge deal. So I do it.

Speaker 2 And then he goes, You're from when he saw me,

Speaker 2 I had done different stuff. And he goes, What happened? And I go, oh, he goes, where was the stuff I saw? And I go, well, I had done a couple road gigs that I wasn't killing.

Speaker 2 And they said, you got to, some of your stuff is a little weird. And so I tweaked it to think it would be stuff that would do better.
And he's like,

Speaker 2 Jesus, dude. He goes, I liked you for that.

Speaker 2 He goes, do that.

Speaker 2 He goes, fuck that.

Speaker 3 Go back to that.

Speaker 2 And if it doesn't work, then you're not supposed to be a stand-up. But don't try to second second-guess it.

Speaker 3 That's very good advice.

Speaker 2 He goes, because this isn't making you laugh.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 2 That was the greatest. I was like, yeah.
And he's like, just whatever you were doing, whatever your thought process was, just keep throwing those type of jokes.

Speaker 2 And if they don't work, then it's just not working. But that's the stuff that I like.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And if you can get through that, like you say, you push through it, it somehow catches on.

Speaker 2 It was such a great

Speaker 3 advice because then you're yourself, and audiences come with expectations, but they drop them in a hot second when they see you doing something interesting.

Speaker 3 They go, Well, I want to hear some jokes. And then they see you being like, Well, I don't know what that guy's doing, but I'm in.

Speaker 2 I'm in. A weird joke where you don't get it.
I always go, like, what is this guy doing?

Speaker 3 Well, the thing is, there's so much potential in a moment on stage

Speaker 3 beyond the one laugh. If you don't get, if you're willing, if you can detach

Speaker 3 emotionally, or you don't put your ego in it,

Speaker 3 that's the most dangerous thing for a comic is like, I don't like the way I feel when they're not laughing.

Speaker 3 Because it's like being a scientist and you put in some whatever and then it doesn't, and you go, wait, but why isn't it changing into ammonia? Like, you should just be studying what happens.

Speaker 3 And for me, like, if I put something out there that confuses them or upsets them, I've just changed the chemistry in the room.

Speaker 3 That means I have a whole bunch of other things I can do now that are beyond that moment

Speaker 3 that different laughs, laughs that feel different because they came after discomfort or after confusion. Yeah.
Instead of just. I've been at this 50 years, I feel.
I've been in a master's class.

Speaker 3 You should go a master's class.

Speaker 3 But that's amazing. I'm really curious of the first time

Speaker 3 you leapt to a giant room. Did you have to fight harder for being this authentic in each moment? Because Louis C.
Kay's here. The big, big rooms.
Well. The first early big rooms.

Speaker 3 It's pretty quiet for 10 minutes when there's 20.

Speaker 3 It takes longer to. You mean really big room? Really, really big room.
Well, whatever the first room where you're a little intimidated, like maybe you had to try a little harder to be your author.

Speaker 3 Well, the very, very first time I did a theater was I opened for Jerry Seinfeld when I was 19.

Speaker 3 And I got to open for him in a club in Boston, and he liked me, so he took me to some like thousand-seat theaters. It was before he had his show, but he was already a big deal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 And he took me to like five gigs, and I had a huge education for me. Yeah, and uh, he's a

Speaker 3 Jerry something else, he's a guy, yes, he's a guy to study as far as a writer. Can I give you this one Jerry Seinfeld thing that I love to do?

Speaker 3 He has a new album out, it's an LP, yeah, and it's called Paperclips Why?

Speaker 3 So I just like that joke. I don't know why.
I did it for Jerry, Paperclips, Why? With a big smile. Anyway, so go ahead.
So you're

Speaker 2 you have to work on pauses and stuff if it's a big, big room.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I learned this from Jerry. So I did, I opened for him, and I'm just a 19-year-old, been doing comedy for like two years or one almost.
And I'm just doing my stuff.

Speaker 3 And this, it was the 80s, and there was more, there was, people used to talk about applause breaks back then. You know, it was a thing then.
That's what you wanted in.

Speaker 3 So there was like, people, if they really liked a joke, they would just, they'd take a long break of applause. And I was like, what the fuck am I supposed to do?

Speaker 3 I'm standing there and they're applauding.

Speaker 3 They've shut down my show.

Speaker 3 Nothing nothing to do.

Speaker 3 I love the physicality. Yeah, it's just like a lot of people.
You're like angry. I'm locked.
Yeah, it's like three minutes into the set. So I asked Jerry, what do I do? And he said, stay in the bits.

Speaker 3 Stay in the moments. Keep inhabiting the moment that got you that applause.

Speaker 3 If you're like angry and the bit is about anger and they're applauding, just stay in that, stay in that, and carry it to the next moment.

Speaker 2 Still the bit in their heads too. They're like, you don't just drop it.

Speaker 3 No. And I think about that now because a lot of the bits I'm doing doing in this tour are more about a feeling than words.
They're more about

Speaker 3 conveying a ridiculous emotion, but it's real to me.

Speaker 3 So I keep, when they get, they're laughing and I look at them sometimes like, why are you laughing at this? And that.

Speaker 3 If you stick with it, you see it, you feel it start to actually rise. The laughter starts to turn into, and you can feel it changing.

Speaker 3 And it's because of your attitude informing it, your body language. Yeah, because you're still in it.
You don't just go like, anyway, that's that.

Speaker 3 A lot of comedians have a habit of dropping their eyes down to their feet between bits. Anyway, I've got it.

Speaker 3 Sometimes I have a yellow pad and I have my stuff and I just write, stay there.

Speaker 3 That's great. And for me, if I'm, let's just say I'm doing Joe Biden or something, just stay there.
If they love it, it'll be 15 minutes. That's right.
Doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 That's my new idea in my head: is when I'm in a bit, I want to be thinking, this is what I came here to talk about.

Speaker 3 right this one yeah yeah I'm just here this is it yeah so that's in the big rooms like because some of the bigger ones it feels like you have to pump a lot of gas into the room before you can light it and there's a lag

Speaker 3 but if you keep your timing and you keep your they find you they find they find your timing they do because also you are one again you think you're 35 again 3500 against one but they each think they're one to one yeah

Speaker 3 So you have to know that your perception is distorted.

Speaker 2 Yeah, people used to say, How is it going on TV with 20 million people watching? I go, it's probably two at a time.

Speaker 3 Yes, and they're all watching one guy.

Speaker 2 And they're just in a room with two people. It's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 3 On SNL, you're just trying to get that audience to laugh. You're not always cognizant.
One thing I was interesting

Speaker 3 interesting watching you over the years is that you do have a toolkit. Like you have a lot of physicality.

Speaker 3 You do a lot of act outs. You have certain voices that you'll use.
And you also have, which everyone has, is some, you have a certain occasionally, you'll just let out a big smile and a big laugh.

Speaker 3 Sure. And I talked with Jerry about that, that all the greats have that moment to signal to the audience or to actually just let out release.
Yes.

Speaker 3 But you have a lot of little moves you do that are Louis C.K. moves that are little act outs.
Are you aware of these?

Speaker 3 Some of them I would try to get rid of.

Speaker 3 Really? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Just change.

Speaker 3 Yeah, like I have a voice I try to get off of.

Speaker 3 I have a voice that when I hear it, I go get out. What is it? Is it sort of it's this guy? That guy.
And he's trying to explain and he starts cracking because he doesn't think you're getting it.

Speaker 3 And he's really upset. But inside he's going, like, what are you doing? Stop it.

Speaker 3 So, and maybe it's an age thing. I'm trying to be this guy.
Open the throat. I go on with hot tea.
I open my throat. Yeah.
I'm talking like this. And I'm talking.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm a human being, and I'm talking in the moment.

Speaker 3 I'm not chasing a moment or running away from one. I'm in it.
And if I start to feel like I'm chasing, I go, okay,

Speaker 3 okay. All right, get back into it.
Take a second, anything.

Speaker 2 I got a question about your

Speaker 2 ticket master thing. When did you go from...

Speaker 2 I'd always thought it was so interesting. You've got to be the first guy to do it where you sort of, everything's run from Louis ZK.
Everything's run from emails.

Speaker 2 It just, you didn't need anyone after a while, right? And did you get any blowback from ticket places? Or would you say no more ticket master? I'm just going to.

Speaker 3 Well, it was back when the first thing I did was sell my own special on my website.

Speaker 2 Oh, that was a big deal, yeah.

Speaker 3 Because I was doing a special each year. I was filling theaters.

Speaker 3 I was only doing stand-up at the time, and

Speaker 3 I was loving it. It was like the height for me.

Speaker 3 And I could do two hours. It was crazy.
And I could fill any place I asked to play. And I saw, so I wanted to do a special, and no one was doing them.
Sometimes that happened back then.

Speaker 3 There was no Netflix then, and HBO had quit it. They were just like, we don't have to do it.

Speaker 2 It's like a swag. Yeah.
You don't want to go to comedy center. You don't want to go to something too small.

Speaker 3 No, and it was, there was nothing around. And I thought, well, I'm one of the top guys.
Like, I'm some people's favorite. Yeah.
So, like, whatever. I'm in the ALDS.
I'm in the Division League series.

Speaker 3 Fair. Yeah.
Fair statement.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so,

Speaker 3 how do I use that leverage?

Speaker 3 Well, what would happen if I sold it myself? What if I created a whole store for one product and sold this thing by myself?

Speaker 3 And I hired some guys that do that.

Speaker 3 And they interviewed me about how I wanted the store to look.

Speaker 3 And I thought about all the things I hated about shopping for things, like having it put in on your address and make them your best friend.

Speaker 3 I said, just tell them they can buy it and they'll never hear from me again. And just drop your email if you want to hear from me.

Speaker 3 And so I did it, and it made a shit ton of money right away. And then I had all these emails.
And so I was able to, when I toured,

Speaker 3 I was able to blast out and sell tickets. And then I started looking at things like Ticketmaster and

Speaker 3 the fact that a lot of my tickets were getting sold for like $1,000 on StubHub and stuff. And that was a drag.

Speaker 3 And people on Ticketmaster were paying like $12 on top for extra fees. and the tickets were a lot.
And I always charged less than other comedians.

Speaker 3 I used to look at what is Kathy Griffin and Jim Gaffigan's price and go a little under. That was my

Speaker 3 that's how I priced my tickets

Speaker 3 a little under those folks

Speaker 3 because I respect those two. Yeah.
And I thought I just want to be an easy ticket to buy. That's all.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 but that made me more easy to scalp, like it was a better investment. So my fans, anyway, this is a a long story.
I don't want to get it.

Speaker 2 No, I like this because it's so interesting that that happened. And that's what Theo has been talking about when we were doing this movie.

Speaker 2 He's like, why don't we do like Louie and we just, you just buy it?

Speaker 3 I think it's a good idea. It works if you already have a following, which you guys obviously have.

Speaker 2 But it's risky. And I go, I don't think people have done it.
Maybe they've done it with movies. I go, should we be the first?

Speaker 2 I mean, I go, let's watch someone fuck it up and then go, oh, here's what they did wrong.

Speaker 3 Now we do it. That's right.

Speaker 2 But to be first is tricky to do.

Speaker 3 It can be. And I had confidence because I was selling so well and because I had an audience that wanted to see me.

Speaker 3 But then I started thinking about how Ticketmaster has the emails of everybody who buys your tickets. They have

Speaker 3 those of the Glen Gary leads, you know, like they have

Speaker 3 the emails and they can contact everyone who has seen you, but you can't.

Speaker 3 And so we found a ticket company called e-ticks who would do exactly what Ticketmaster did for $12, and they charged like 50 cents.

Speaker 3 And they make it white label, which means it looks like it's your company. And so we decided, let's just do that.
But then we learned that Ticketmaster has a large

Speaker 3 monopoly on this stuff and that they pay theaters to not use other, they pay them a premium to not use other people. They start finding that shit out, which is smart for them to do.

Speaker 3 And I didn't have a problem with Ticketmaster. They just, they had a lot of power.

Speaker 3 And I just, so I created an alternative.

Speaker 3 Our tickets way cheaper and we hired people who were ex-scalpers to keep our stuff off the secondary market it cost a lot of money to do this so i made like a quarter that tour of what i would have made but you put it in place and it was fun it was so fun to do this and i never had a i never was anti a ticketmaster i'm a capitalist at heart you weren't full pearl jam no i just was like let's see if there's another way and um and sometimes we would find a room that didn't have a ticketmaster partnership and we would engage them.

Speaker 3 And then he calls back and say, Ticketmaster found out we were doing it. But we made that room a bunch of money.

Speaker 3 Do you forward rooms? I mean, you rent one room. I did back then, but now I just don't have that kind of leverage.
Now, now I just use Ticketmaster.

Speaker 3 I let them charge what, you know, I just, I'm just one of the guys now.

Speaker 2 That's a program dude. Eventually,

Speaker 2 it's too

Speaker 3 overwhelming.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And you don't have the time to do it.

Speaker 3 This thing, the money, the money I ask for

Speaker 3 business. And then

Speaker 3 the fun, you know, and like they'll go, well, we got you this much to play this casino or whatever. And then I go there and the tickets are like way overpriced.
Too much.

Speaker 3 And then there's a few empty seats. You're like, no, I want a cheaper.
They don't, we live in different parallel universes.

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Speaker 3 The thing that also impressed me was when you went to FX, and they're like, Louie, you know, make a show for us. Genius.
And comedians will quote this:

Speaker 3 What do you have to pay me? What's the least amount you'll pay me where I just go make the show and hand it to you? Is that correct? Yeah, more or less.

Speaker 3 I mean, John Lengreff, who ran FX, he still runs FX.

Speaker 3 It was a dialogue with him. So he was like, I'll give you $150,000.
First, it was like, I'll give you $100,000 to do a pilot.

Speaker 3 And I said, the only way I'm doing that is if i hand you a dvd you wire me a hundred grand and i'll hand you a dvd we don't talk between those two things

Speaker 3 like done

Speaker 3 so we did it i handed him a dvd they smart they went nuts for it they had a bunch of no i had a notes call and then after the notes call i called him i said i'm i'm not doing that

Speaker 3 i did the whole call yeah i didn't listen to one everything to a comedian would hate you just said no well because i had this the power i had was joyful in other words

Speaker 3 yes, because he would say, well, you know, it's standard practice. And I'd say, it should be.
It's smart of you to give notes, but I don't feel like it. So let's just not do the show.

Speaker 3 I'll give you back the $100,000. It always ends with, let's not just, let's just not do it.
And here's the money. I don't feel like it.
I think you're really doing the right thing. I don't, I'm not.

Speaker 3 And he was like,

Speaker 3 okay. But then when we went to series, he wanted to do the show for very low.

Speaker 3 Again, and I would say, well, give me more. And he'd say, okay, but I got to ask the boss for that money.
I'm giving you checks I can write at my desk. Right.
And no one asks.

Speaker 3 But if you want more money, you need more interference. So he kept me.
He was a great, that guy's a brilliant guy. So he was, it became an ally.

Speaker 3 That's right. And he also, when I pitched, to give him credit, when I pitched the show, when I went there, he was like, I want you to do a show.
And I said, I don't really need a TV series.

Speaker 3 I was on the road and I said, maybe a sketch show. And he said, I don't want a sketch show.
And he said, I want you to do a show about your family, the stuff you talk about on stage.

Speaker 3 And I said, I don't, I don't, I would sell that for a lot more money somewhere else. That's what I said to him.
And he said,

Speaker 3 what if you do a show that feels like sketches, but has a central theme of your life?

Speaker 3 And I said,

Speaker 3 that reminded me of Annie Hall. There's like animation.

Speaker 3 And I said, and he goes, if you want to make Annie Hall the TV show, I'm happy to have you do that. So

Speaker 3 he helped me come up with what the show was. And that became an iconic

Speaker 2 ratings, it's also awards.

Speaker 3 For them, it's all awards.

Speaker 2 They want to be awards and it just gets it. It can be a show that

Speaker 2 does nothing, but it wins and they love it.

Speaker 3 That was another thing when that show came out.

Speaker 3 Big deal.

Speaker 3 I'm using the term loosely. It was Woody Allen level of writing and humanity and your character.

Speaker 3 I don't know.

Speaker 3 What's your favorite Woody Allen movie? It's an onstage. Any hall is a huge one.

Speaker 3 Crimes and misdemeanors. he has a bunch tied for first.
Crimes and Misdemeanors, Husbands and Wives, Annie,

Speaker 3 Hannah and her sisters. Love them all.
Beautiful.

Speaker 3 And then the early ones, Take the Money and Run. Yeah.
It's hysterically funny. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 There's one in. Bananas.
I mean, fuck. I love all of them.
Well, every few years, Paul and I will just sort of go through Woody.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 Zellig, the one where he is sort of ahead of its time.

Speaker 3 Zellig. Zelig, he turns into different, like, he's a chameleon.
And what do you call it? Bananas, he's in a court. It's a courtroom scene.
Right. He does the whole.

Speaker 3 But there's this one part where he says to the, he goes to the judge, this trial is a mockery and a sham.

Speaker 3 He says, do you know that there's not one homosexual on this jury? And the judge says, yes, there is. And he goes, oh, which one is it? The big guy at the end?

Speaker 3 There's a movie that's kind of a...

Speaker 3 You'll know it when I tell you, but it's something in the modern era that makes me feel so good.

Speaker 3 And it's a Woody movie, and it's a touchstone for my wife and I that we will revisit it, and that's Midnight in Paris. I don't see it.
Holy fuck. Wait, does he fly through the air with Goldie Hahn?

Speaker 3 No. That's some other surrogate.
It's like 2014.

Speaker 2 Midnight Express.

Speaker 3 What happened with it is that he finally found the best surrogate Woody. So Woody can't play the part.
So we put Owen Wilson in. Oh, he would be good.
He sort of had the same kind of rhythm. Yes.

Speaker 3 Maybe we could just live here in Paris.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 it's a really fun, if you're ever bored.

Speaker 3 Check it out. Yeah, definitely should.

Speaker 3 I like to guess that. Before we let the way we go.
Well, I want to mention before. Before I go, I want to say something nice about David Spade.
Yes, one and only,

Speaker 3 please.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 So I was a comedian in New York, and the bottom fell out of comedy, like all in one day. Like all the clubs were closing.
Like 90, 90. It was 90, this was 1992.
Cable TV had come in and usurped.

Speaker 3 Everything, but all the clubs closed. Everyone was and every, so SNL had a big changeover of writers and staff,

Speaker 3 cast.

Speaker 3 And so they were coming to see everybody at Catch Rising Star. All the comedians were getting seen.

Speaker 3 And I did a showcase, and it was, David Teller was on it, Laura Keitlinger, Janine Garofflo, Jay Moore.

Speaker 3 I mean, a bunch of people got seen that night. And I was put on first.

Speaker 3 And I hated that I was on first, but there it was. The club owner was

Speaker 3 didn't like me very much. Jon Stewart was hosting the show.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so this is like, I got no, I can't pay the rent. Like, this is, I need, I just want a writing job.
I'll take anything. But this felt like the last train leaving for comedy for a lot of us.
So

Speaker 3 we're going to do the show starts because it's late. They're not there.
No SNL people are there. And the show starts.
And

Speaker 3 he goes, you're going on first. I'm like, they're not going to see me.
They're not here. And he goes, Too bad.

Speaker 3 Jon Stewart stretched as long as he could. To kind of set the table.
Try to get someone to be in the room on. There's an empty table.
Oh, okay. There was no people to watch.

Speaker 2 It's like pointless to go on.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no one's going to see me.

Speaker 3 And so finally, Stewart looks at me and goes, like this. I'm sorry.
And he brings me on, and I start doing my set for no reason now. I mean, I'm happy there's an audience there, but there's nobody.

Speaker 3 And then they come in while I'm on stage,

Speaker 3 like 12 people, Jim Downey,

Speaker 3 the whole bunch of them come in talking. And I'm like, this is fucking hell.

Speaker 3 David is in the group. I don't know David at the time.
Didn't know him. Maybe a hello once in a while, a little bit, but he saw me and I saw him do this.
Oh, oh, this guy. Come here, sit down.

Speaker 3 He made them all sit down

Speaker 3 and said,

Speaker 3 watch him watch this guy he settled this table down and he made them watch me and i didn't get the job but the next day jim downey called robert smigel and said i'm not gonna hire this guy but you should and he gave me the i got the other last train going which was conan oh it did work out something yeah so i appreciate it thank you because that must if that's the jay moor went up of course i'm glad i did some something right yeah the whimsy jay moor god and keitlinger yeah because she did a year or two.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a big deal.
You hosted four times. Yeah, you hosted four times.
I hosted four times. You're traveling the world.

Speaker 3 I just thought this is something that comedians talk about recently about you. And I think Jerry mentioned this.

Speaker 3 Just again,

Speaker 3 hey, hey, man, do this.

Speaker 3 The family trip. The family trip.
And you get the kids and the luggage and you put the wife in, and then you walk around the car, and that's your vacation. That's your vacation.

Speaker 3 So that is the walk from the car to your door. Yeah, that's just such a well-observed moment and it was done so.
It just sticks with me.

Speaker 3 And the recent one, which blew my mind, I guess I saw YouTube or something, was that you did this bit about Goodwill Hunting. I guess you hear about that because it was like, oh no, he can't.

Speaker 2 What is he?

Speaker 3 This movie's for 30, and yet it was completely relevant. And it was so funny.
the physicality of the hand you're doing and him typing. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Him typing the movie. And just doing it.

Speaker 3 I'm like a really tough guy, but I'm I'm amazing. I'm a genius.

Speaker 3 And I beat up everybody. But I beat everybody up.
It's incredible. Yeah.
And that's just funny seeing that and doing just a slightly altered movie.

Speaker 2 You get such a long bit out. I watched it before you came over this morning.

Speaker 2 And you get so much out of it. Thanks.
That's a lot. Thanks.
I still watch your clips. Instagram is good because they come in, like you said, watching stand-ups.

Speaker 2 You'll see new ones, but you're on there, so I see these bits, and I was trying to remember them to go when he comes in. I got to say this.

Speaker 2 But there's too many. So it's always good to see what I haven't seen.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I'm like, this guy's still,

Speaker 3 I'm trying to kill our bits right now. I'm trying to sum up your advice.
It's a little bit like the emotional warfare of stand-up. Like if you're in a kitchen and had a drink in you with friends,

Speaker 3 that voice back there is not really, and you're kind of telling a story. That's right.
That's not there. No.
You're not a future-tripping pastor.

Speaker 3 And so to take that, but have 20,000 look at you or 300 and emotionally calm that down and just be centered. Well, it's saying this to yourself about every moment.

Speaker 3 This feels new and jittery, but it's okay.

Speaker 3 This isn't the last moment.

Speaker 3 Get comfortable. And there's potential in this moment.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it's going to pass and don't

Speaker 3 and savor it,

Speaker 3 no matter what it is. So I feel that way in life.

Speaker 3 And on stage, it's been helping me a lot. I was asked this once on one of these type of podcasts.

Speaker 3 How do you turn someone on?

Speaker 3 How do you turn someone on? I don't know how.

Speaker 2 Well, whatever you guys are doing right now is working.

Speaker 3 All right. Do you need a blanket?

Speaker 3 I thought it sounds like a riddle.

Speaker 3 I thought it was a riddle. I just said to them, turn yourself on.
And they go, no one's ever said that. I like that.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Turn yourself on. So sometimes I do try to find a way out of the boredom and the tedium of stand-up to get excited.

Speaker 3 And whether I'm altering something or stepping outside the whatever I'm doing to make myself feel joyful, because sometimes you don't see it. Sometimes I do think that there's a

Speaker 3 there's a phenomenon that happens to me sometimes. I shoot two shows to do a special.
And the first show I'm just too, I got too much adrenaline and the crowds dry. So I really struggle.

Speaker 3 And then a second show, I just feel great. They've been out already.
They're a later crowd. They're looser.
And it's wonderful. I go back and look at them when I edit it.

Speaker 3 I end up using the first show more

Speaker 3 because the first show, I'm like on edge and I'm not happy. And that's funnier.
I'd rather watch a comedian who's really not comfortable.

Speaker 3 We as comedians want to be like, we just want to be like, that's me. I am mad.
It's going great up here, but that's not fun. It's not fun to watch for stand-up.
It's not fun to watch somebody.

Speaker 3 who's in the pocket and feeling really great. It's fun to watch somebody who's like, I don't know how to explain this to you and I kind of hate you a little right now, and I want to go home.

Speaker 3 I'd rather watch that.

Speaker 3 Okay. That's great.
I'm going to do a set tonight and apply all these techniques. Good.
And there's going to be a giant, I've already made a little text.

Speaker 3 There's going to be a huge picture of you at the comedy store behind me. And I go, this is the guy who told me to do this set.

Speaker 3 And when they take me off in handcuffs, I go, oh, that's very interesting. Well, God, that's fascinating.
I know you're still at the top of your whatever.

Speaker 2 You're at the Istanbul improv.

Speaker 3 I'm looking at Dana, all these places you're all over there i'm going to istanbul yes crazy yeah my activity have you been there before india i'm also going to india

Speaker 3 never been to india never been to turkey i've been to athens is and uh bucharest some of the places i've been to and they they all speak english they all the stand-up stand-up in english is all over the world now it's a big fan yeah i play a lot internationally well my stuff about ralph's work i don't make we explain what ralph's is yes oh you got to give it a little of that first just a little

Speaker 3 yeah supermarket. Now we're in.
Do you mind if I did a selfie? Oh, no, sorry.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 these little things. Thanks.
Can you come back in a few months again? Whatever you want. We got lots of people.
I'm really happy to be here. I could do it for another two hours.
That was really fun.

Speaker 3 Talk.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Louis. Great to see you.

Speaker 3 You're Louis C.K. You're David Spade.
Yep.

Speaker 3 I wrote a book. It's on Nancy.
Oh, Ingram. Yeah.
Did you have that book? Can we hold it up?

Speaker 2 Ingram is the book.

Speaker 3 You have the Ingram book? Yeah, let's hold that up. We can cut this part.
Because the cover is really cool and the the texture of the cover

Speaker 3 i like it

Speaker 3 did they show that they i book people is so different than tv people because tv like you're like you guys don't know what the fuck you're doing and they ask stupid questions book people are smarter than me

Speaker 3 So like I got an email from this woman saying like I went through the book yesterday like she went through the whole book.

Speaker 3 She's like I think that your original strategy for commas in the book was better than what

Speaker 3 the editor did and I want to restore it. And I wrote back to her said, I got to be really honest with you.
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Speaker 3 Do whatever you think is best. So the cover,

Speaker 3 I showed them a cover of Grapes of Wrath that I really liked, a vintage version.

Speaker 3 And I said, this is the vibe. And they just came up with it.

Speaker 3 Well, it's all how it's done. And it just looks really cool.
Yeah, it's a nice book. It feels good.
The book is Ingram. Here you go.
Here we go. The gentleman joins us, Louis C.K.

Speaker 3 He's going to be at the comedy store tonight in the Ice House Tuesday.

Speaker 3 Thursday, he'll be at Sir Lafcellot and Fresno. But right now, he's got a new bestseller, bestseller, Louis Chica.
It's called Ingram.

Speaker 3 Funnily enough. But anyway, that is

Speaker 3 see all how that's faded. I don't know if it's a Photoshop thing or someone painted it.
Yeah. It does kind of draw you in.
So that's another, but that's full circle what we wanted to talk about.

Speaker 3 This is

Speaker 3 your latest achievement. Have you had enough compliments? Is the pouch full? Reveal some more, please.
Reveal more. But it is impressive as hell.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 And when I finish it, I'm going to call you. Good.
When you're in there. I hope so.

Speaker 3 I talked to Gmail Geno today on the way here. Yeah, he's my buddy.
I know. There's only one Z Mo.
There's only one.

Speaker 2 Hey guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

Speaker 1 If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

Speaker 2 Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, and Leah Rhys-Dennis of Odyssey.

Speaker 1 Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech.

Speaker 2 Booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

Speaker 1 Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney, and Vieira.

Speaker 2 Reach out with us any questions to be asked and answered on the show. You can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey.com.
That's A-U-D-A-C-Y.com.