The League of Farmers, metaphorical mountains & UFO-spotting Premier League managers

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I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gas going to have a crack?

He is, you know.

Oh, I think

brilliant!

But jeez!

He's He's round the goalkeeper!

He's done it!

Absolutely incredible!

He launched himself six feet into the crowd and kung fu kicked a supportler who was

without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip.

Oh, a save!

It's amazing!

He does it tame and tame and tame again.

Break up the music!

Charge a glass!

This nation is going to dance all night!

Watford's managerial recruitment strategy finally makes some sense.

The best pound-for-pound save in football history.

Phil Jones flailing around for the nearest possible idiom.

A superb conclusion to a fine couple of weeks for football-themed Papal Conclave discourse.

Premier League managers' names in UFO sightings.

Clive Tilsley's legal rights over the name Clive.

Unassuming first halves, the optimum amount of time to be rotting in the reserves, and estimated distances with Richard Keys.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

This is Football Cliches.

Hello everyone and welcome to Football Cliches.

I'm Adam Hurry.

This is the adjudication panel.

Joining me, first of all, Charlie Eccleshare, how you doing?

Very well, thank you.

Alongside you, David Walker, how are things?

Things are good.

Excellent.

Charlie, my mind is still dominated by Rudy Voller.

I find.

We had some further correspondence from the man himself who, after we confronted him with the song that I wasn't massively familiar with, Sven Sven Sven, from the early 2000s, he got in touch to say the man who wrote Sven Sven Sven is Martin Bellamy, a close family friend who sang at my aunt's wedding in November last year.

What is going on?

Wow.

So he wrote it.

Did he also perform it?

Surely if you're writing that, you're performing that as well.

And if he sung his aunt's wedding.

See the bell of Bella and Sperling.

Bellamy.

Must be.

Wow.

I mean, this is, yeah, it's been the gift that keeps on giving.

And we've had so much great correspondence about Rudy's appearance.

It's been, yeah, what a hit.

So he didn't know about the song.

His close close family friend wrote the song and yet Rudy Voller didn't know.

How has that not come up?

Yeah, I guess he would have been pretty young when it came out though, wouldn't it?

When did he say he was born?

96 or something?

Yeah.

And I think that came out for the 2002 World Cup.

So yeah, he would only have been about six.

Maybe Rudy Voller, you know, doesn't know these things and they just keep happening and all these surprises keep coming to him.

Or he's playing a really cynical game and just loves just people being in awe of him at all times.

I don't know.

Dan Hall wrote in and said, just to add to the Rudy Voller phenomenon, I played football against him at the University of Birmingham and can confirm he's a very good player.

Charlie, that's great for the Rudy Volla myth, isn't it?

I think he needs to be a good footballer.

It'd be really disappointing, yeah, if he

was like, yeah, he can't really play.

But

it feels so unbrand for him.

He seemed like a good footballer.

Dave, Mikey Coppel, wrote, I don't know how Rudy Volla didn't tell us this.

He said, I played a season with him in central midfield for a Birmingham Saturday League team while he was at uni there.

Whenever he got booked, the ref would ask his name.

He would say Rudy Voller.

And that's not a joke, on the basis he had previously been told to stop taking the piss by a ref when he told him his name.

Opposition teams furiously looking, asking for his ID.

Rudy Voller's pretty old now, he'd probably level the playing field.

Dave, you may well have seen this by now, and reluctant as I am to steal content from the venerable dull men's club on Facebook, Mike McCarthy wrote into them and said, I saw a list of recent managers of Watford.

Now, I know they're famed for having a high turnaround of managers, but a closer look, I noticed that if the next manager has a K in their name, then they have a full pangram that is using every letter of the alphabet of managers in seven years, which seems highly remarkable.

Zisko Munoz doing a lot of the lifting here, I can tell you.

But yeah, they've used every letter of the alphabet except for K.

Who's coming in?

Kevin Keegan.

Finally, the grand plan between the Potso's hiring and firing scheme is clear.

Exactly.

They've been playing the longest game of all.

It's tremendous.

But yeah, Zisko Munoz, thank God for him in many ways.

Before we move on to the adjudication panel, uh, proper, I've got something for you both that I think you'll enjoy.

So, I was at um uh a girlfriend's friend's birthday on Saturday night, talking to one of her friends, and she she's sort of vaguely aware of clichés and what we do, and she was like, Oh, this job I've been working on, you'd you'd absolutely love it.

So, she works in TV and sort of advertising, works on ads and stuff, and film shoots and stuff like that.

She's been working on a project recently with an official partner, which I won't name, but one of the official partners of UEFA or the Champions League.

Right.

And this person, she's had access to the UEFA archive, and her specific task was to go through the UEFA archive and find as much slow-motion footage of managers and players

in Champions League games, in the whole archive.

That is the dream.

If only we had those live show bits filmed, she could kind of definitively say just how accurate they are.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, they're totally accurate.

Yeah.

Lip-flubbering, teammate geeing up after going down an early goal in a game.

It's all there.

Slow-mo shaking the head.

Yeah.

Wow.

She did say that the Italians were pretty much the main source of material that she was finding.

But yeah, what a job.

Oh, imagine your little face lighting up when she told you that.

Incredible.

Some people's jobs.

You get to do some cool stuff.

Just like we do on the adjudication panel.

Let's do a little recap of the Champions League, in fact.

As Gian Luigi Donarumma palmed away a fierce drive for Martin Erdegaard at the Emirates early early doors, Charlie.

Stan Collymore tweeted, pound for pound, one of the best saves ever.

Can you pound for pound a save?

I'm not against it because I enjoy a pound for pounding.

I think it makes you look clever.

It makes you think, you know, you've placed it in its relative, you know, place in things.

But

how does that work here?

I mean, I love pound for pound because it's most of the time completely meaningless and just said as a way of kind of adding weight to something.

Like it has a, I mean, because it's a boxing thing, isn't it?

And you're talking about, you know, like Mayweather was the pound for pound the best boxer Yep, because obviously he wasn't the biggest so he would have been beaten by heavyweights But his stats and everything he is the best So it's always a bit of a weird one in football because You're not you are rated by being the you know like a league two save isn't really pound for pound an amazing because it's kind of like well it's a it's by definition at a lower level.

I mean, I guess in this instance, he means what was at stake,

uh,

like you know, it's Champions League semi-final.

Oh, so that weight

critical save quality of the save in isolation, you mean?

I think so.

I mean, I think that's what he's getting at.

Just a really good save.

What else sort of could it mean?

Because you're not talking, this isn't like a Sunday League goalkeeper who you're saying, now, I know it's not the highest standard, but I mean, like, this is the highest standard.

So, Dave, even if you did factor in the stage in which the save take place, why?

Why does it have to be, why does it have to be a relative thing?

Why can't it just be, I don't know, that was just a really good save?

Why does it have to suddenly become one of the best saves ever, pound for pound?

Well, I think it, yeah,

you're right, Charlie.

He is sort of saying, all things considered, there may have been more spectacular instances of a goalkeeper saving a ball, but that was a really good save.

And it's also

at a crucial point in a massive match.

It was a really good save.

Like, great reactions, like, got down really quickly.

Incredible, yeah.

But I suppose in the moment as well, you might also just want to cover yourself and just think, oh, oh, God, like, where does it actually sit in the top five states of all time?

Yeah, I suppose.

Say pump for pound, that'll cover me.

Exactly.

It's in a blind caveat.

It's excellent.

Robin Griffiths also writes in, Dave, and says, Darren Fletcher on TNT said that mountain Arsenal have to climb has got steeper when PSG took the lead.

Hasn't it actually got higher?

Or is it both because they got less time to do it in?

So, I don't know.

To figurative mountains that teams have to climb get steeper or higher?

Well,

both of being steeper and higher would be harder, I suppose.

Which one would you prefer?

You'd probably, would you, you'd probably prefer, if you're a mountain climber, would you rather the mountain got steeper or higher?

Depends where your strengths lie.

But I think you're right, Adam, that it is

the time aspect does correlate to the steepness.

Right.

The height is your ultimate task.

So, yeah, that makes sense.

Like, adding a goal to it is like, oh, fuck, it's got, we're going to have to climb even more.

Yeah, I think, I think it, yeah, it's the vertical distance left to travel.

I don't think the steepness.

I mean, I suppose, I mean, steepness is a nicer way of putting it.

The challenge has got harder, but I think it's easier for people to digest, Charlie, the idea of just simply a higher mountain.

Unless you're a real

mountain head, I guess.

For a bit of context here, Dave, Callum Slater waded into this debate and said, an additional goal conceded equals a higher mountain.

If you go down to 10 men or you have an injury to a key player, that makes it steeper.

Oh, I like this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the task itself, you know, in a completely oblique sense, has got harder.

So the mountain is higher.

But if you make life difficult for yourself or the conditions get harder, the mountain gets steeper.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that works quite nicely.

Hmm.

All right.

Luis Enrique was interviewed.

after PSG secured their patches to the final on TNT Sports.

And Charlie, I'm not sure how I feel about this officially embedding itself in the mainstream.

You've knocked out all the Premier League opposition in this competition.

The League of Farmers.

No, we are the League of Farmers, but sometimes, yeah, it's nice.

I don't like it.

I don't like it.

What, you don't like the sort of corporate UEFA Sheen meeting Twitter, low-level Twitter band?

I think it's more basic than that.

I just don't like anyone of any note saying it out loud on television.

It's a purely online thing.

And I'm annoyed that someone has had to acknowledge it as a thing in the mainstream.

Yeah, it's fun.

I mean, I have to say, when I saw it, because I saw it was quoted quoted on social media, I was slightly sceptical as to whether he had actually said it.

Yeah.

Because, like you say,

it is such an online thing.

It's quite funny that he has that and calling it the League of Farmers.

It's ridiculous, said out loud, Dave.

It does.

And perhaps initially, you wouldn't expect...

somebody like Luis Enrique to be across this sort of stuff.

But actually, I think if I am I wrote in the last World Cup, he was doing like regular Twitch streams or something.

I think he is quite switched on to sort of the online discourse,

which I like.

Yeah, as Charlie said, sort of expressing it as the League of Farmers gives it a grandiosity that a Farmers League doesn't have.

The League of Farmers, like the League of Shadows.

But yeah, okay, well, it's out of the bottle now.

It's all out there.

Let's head down to the Conference League now.

This came via Stuart Fiorentina vs.

Rail Bettis.

Robin Gussens reduces the arrears.

Nigel Spackman on Co-Coms.

Gossens has done it.

Good ball in.

The marking's really poor.

That's an excellent header from Robin Gusage because he just opens his neck up and heads it for the bottom corner across the goalkeeper.

It's the old lashing a header debate that's come back.

Can you open your neck up, Dave?

And he knows as well when he's that little half-second pause before he said it was like, oh no, what do I say here?

Yeah, okay, neck.

Surgical header there, Charlie.

Yeah.

I'm trying to think, I mean, like, because they open your body up, you know exactly what that kind of finish is.

And it would be much more the header equivalent of that, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, it was.

It does just sound really odd.

Opened his neck up.

Fantastic.

Now, in the Europa League, this came from Terry C.

Here's Phil Jones on BBC Radio 5 Live praising Ruben Amarim's substitutions as Manchester United sought off athletic Bill Bow.

I thought the timing of the substitutions was really keen, quite savvy from the manager tonight, you know, when just when all the effort, all the energy that Athleti put into the first 60 minutes, he changed it on about 60, 65 minutes.

And, you know, those three substitutions changed the game

in the flash of a pan.

It was that simple.

It's tough to come up with idioms off the top of your head on a live broadcast.

Full sympathy here, Charlie.

Yeah, but

a flash in the pan is.

I don't know what he's an eye.

Is that what he's going for?

Yeah, that's the one.

Come on, Phil.

In the flash of a pan.

Today only did I discover, Dave, what flash in the pan comes from.

17th 17th century flintlock muskets and the firing mechanism.

When they failed to fire, the priming powder in the pan would ignite with a flash, but the main charge would not ignite, resulting in a burst of light and smoke, but without firing the gun.

That's where it comes from.

I just thought, I don't know.

I think we George just blindly assumed it was something cooking related, but no.

Send that to Phil Jones.

Yeah, definitely.

Now, Charlie, I'm not sure why the Papal Conclave football crossover banter is always so strong.

Every single time it happens, it's dead on.

But I think everyone covered themselves in glory this time around.

But I want to give the last word to George Hudson, who was reading the BBC's live blog as the conclave was taking place to elect the new pope.

And one of the updates read, there's intermittent clapping, almost as if people in the square are willing the smoke to come out the chimney of the Sistine chapel.

George Hudson.

Sucking it in at the cops.

Is this the papal equivalent of fans trying to suck the ball into the net?

I'm a guess.

If you're there, you're going to get impatient, right?

Come on, smoke.

Yeah.

Yeah, the cops sucking it in.

Yeah.

Spot on.

Yeah.

I mean, you'd have to be very precise sucking of the smoke.

Wouldn't have to come out of the chimney.

Probably not as easy

as the cop sucking, Dave.

No, the chimney's too high.

You ought to be above the chimney to suck the smoke out, haven't you, surely?

Yeah.

Anyway, it's not up to you.

It's up to the

College of Cardinals.

Next up, this came from Scott Forbes.

Here's Jamie Redknapp sizing up the race for the top five on Saturday night.

It's so difficult to predict.

I think you've got to be Carav Alderman to predict

how many points teams are going to get in the permutations and everything.

She might come in handy for the permutations, Charlie.

I think you need Mystic Meg for the predictions, don't you?

Yeah, it's fair.

All right, Mystic Meg.

I think she would meet that all right threshold.

Has Carol Vordeman ever done BBC Premier League predictions with Chris Sutton?

Must have done by now.

They must have must have got through that, you know, level of celebrity.

Unless she's a bassist in a band.

She would be perfect.

If you were talking about like

coefficients and permutations in that way, I think you might be able to say, oh, we need Carol Vordeman for this, don't we?

But

predictions, not so much.

That's what I'm saying.

Not Rachel Riley.

In Vordeman's shadow, apparently.

But yeah, Jamie Rednapp, just, yeah, tremendous stuff.

Now, footballers' names in things.

I got an email, Dave, from a member of Northumbria Police about our chat we had about P C Barini the other day, who was the first officer on the scene of the felled Sycamore Gap tree.

Slightly concerned when that email dropped.

Never good to get an email from the police.

And it was very formal language as well, Dave.

It said, it is with regret to advise you that PC Barini isn't Fabio Barini trying to earn an honest living in his post-playing days.

The name of this correspondent?

Inspector Paul Davis.

Okay.

Wow.

And he did recognise that he shares his name with the former Arsenal

as well.

Yeah, exactly right.

Deep cut.

Yeah, so great character from Northumbria Police in tough times as well.

Now, Charlie, hundreds of people have sent this bloke's name in over the last year or so.

I just never brought myself to use it.

And I think this is finally the time to use it.

It comes from the Unexplained podcast.

In order to do this, a team of civil service staff were tasked with collating and in some cases following up on alleged sightings of UFOs.

In 1991, a new member joined the team.

Nick Pope had previously worked in the Royal Air Force operations room during the 1990 Gulf War.

He's big in the UFO game, apparently, Nick Pope.

He's been on every possible podcast you can imagine.

We've been sent it so many times and I couldn't resist anymore.

So there he is, Nick Pope.

He's the guy.

And nice to do it on this week of all weeks.

Yeah.

I mean, Dave, you'd trust Nick Pope to deal with an unidentified flying object, wouldn't you?

Yeah.

Yeah, you would.

Yeah.

Or at least punch it clear.

But that was just a gateway to this.

It came from Luke Hobson, who was listening to the Alien UFO podcast.

You know, it was, these encounters didn't sound as if somebody was parroting somebody else's experience.

The depth of detail was never

available, if you see what I mean.

I mean, if we go right back

to the very first sort of really famous case in Brazil, that farmer whose name escapes me for the moment.

Was it Villas Boas?

That's it.

Thank you, Simon.

The farmer, Villas Boas.

Villas Boas is rallying.

What can't he do?

Yeah, I know, but he's right up there as a manager.

You'd expect to have spotted a UFO once and just stuck to his story.

And like, everyone's just like, ah, what are you talking about, you weirdo?

But yeah, he's right up there.

But yeah, maybe it's just a really common name, but I just love the fact that there's a farmer out there called Villis Boas.

Yeah, that would have been the thing when he came that was initially like, look how much conviction this guy has.

You know, he even claims to have seen ghosts.

And then as it unravels at Chelsea, it's like, fucking hell, the players weren't having him.

Like, he's this weirdo talking about ghosts and stuff.

I think AVB's actually now the president of the League of Farmers, Farmers, isn't he?

Right.

Final footballers names in things this time comes from Toby over in Ibiza last Friday at Plastic.

Playing there was Gareth Ainsworth and friends.

How could there be a DJ called Gareth Ainsworth?

He is a musical man, but more of a rock man than a DJ.

Yeah, I'm not sure the Gareth Ainsworth would be quite the vibe for Plastic Ibiza.

Yeah, I mean, there aren't many managers where this DJ looks sort of, I know he's not meant to, but he looks sort of less musick-y and rock and roll roll than the football manager version.

You know, it's not like, it's not like he shares the name with some sort of square in a suit.

You know, Gareth Ainsworth is pretty rock and roll.

Yeah, there could be worse.

Right, that brings us to the end of part one.

We'll be back very shortly.

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Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, No, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's gonna tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action, aka Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

Welcome back to Football Clichés.

A tweet I noticed this weekend from Clive Tildsley, Dave.

He says, There's the second BET 365 ad that I've seen that uses a generic hand to a Clive.

Just to be clear, I would never voice or contribute to a gambling ad.

It's not me.

Now, this is such an interesting dilemma because Clive is so obviously from Clive Tildsley, and the sort of disembodied idea of a Clive has come from there.

But you can't really own it, but it's always going to be sort of eventually sort of pulled back to you.

so i can see why he's got a bit touchy about this maybe he could copyright the name clive in all football context you might have to that's not beyond the realm of possibility is it charlie that someone might want to do that but again you can kind of see i mean he feels very strongly about gambling adverts which is absolutely fine but you can see why he might sort of think hang on this is spiraling out of control you don't get the right to just clive stuff that's me yeah and also it's just about close enough that I can see why he thinks people would think it.

Obviously, if it was, if it wasn't foot, because it's so widespread now, it's not just a football thing.

But I think if it wasn't football, if it was used, you know, people would be like, oh, well, obviously it's just an expression.

But this, it's close enough.

You might be like, oh, is he involved?

Like, you know, does he, did he lend his consent to this to get paid for it?

How long do you think Clive is going to persist, Dave, as a kind of commentary name, you know, the default commentary name?

Well, it's it, as a name in itself, it's definitely not in fashion, is it?

So I don't know, really, not maybe not that much longer, but if you substituted Clive for Peter or Guy,

it doesn't hit the same, does it?

No, no, exactly.

And yeah, they're just as specific.

So you'd see where it came from.

But yeah, I don't know.

Clive sort of has a sort of does have a general air of kind of BBC 1980s, 90s broadcaster of a certain vintage and a little bit nerdy, maybe with his stats or something like that.

So I think it is going to persist for a while, Charlie.

I think anything is going to succeed it for a while.

Yeah, because it's also one of those things you don't think about when people say it.

You know, I know people who say it who aren't into football.

Oh, exactly.

actually transcended it completely.

Yeah, yeah, so it's just something you say.

You know, so I don't think you even think about

the meaning of the name.

Yeah, well, good luck, Clyde Tilson, your legal battle.

Now, last week, Bodo Glimpt versus Spurs.

TNT Sports tweeted at halftime, Charlie, in an unassuming first half, Eve Basuma has the first chance of the game on the stroke of half-time, but he cannot keep his volley down and it flies over the bar.

An unassuming first half.

I've never heard that before.

If I read that, I wouldn't know what it means.

Yeah, I mean, it's like a sort of modest first half.

Yeah, I mean, just thinking what unassuming, you know, it's like, oh, they don't make a big thing.

You know, they're sort of understated.

The first half kept itself to itself.

A disarming first half.

Just didn't really do a lot.

Just sort of happy in the background.

Let's assume, Dave, that unassuming wasn't what they were going for.

What do you think they were going for?

Uneventful?

Underwhelming.

Uneventful.

Underwhelming.

Yeah, it's assuming.

They're surely talking about the fact that nothing happened.

But I'm all for really subtle adjectives for for first halves, though.

It's time to shake it up and bring in some new adjectives for first halves.

And

maybe they're onto something.

Do you know what?

Let's bring back For My Sins Corner.

It's been a while since you two have faced off in this subtle battle of wits.

I'm going to play you a clip from popular culture, and I want you to jump in when you think the immortal footballing phrase, For My Sins, is about to be uttered.

This came from Jonathan Wood, who was listening to 10 to the top on BBC Radio 2.

10 to the top.

Let's welcome Quintin Carlyle in Tids St.

Giles.

Is that right?

I am yes and you did pronounce it right but

yeah in your spare time you play bass, you ride motorcycles, you've got a passion for vintage cars, my kind of guy and you've just sold an old Triumph Spitfire.

We used to have one of them to get your new business off the ground.

Yep yeah I had to get a few tools and stuff and it wasn't getting enough use so you have to make sacrifices sometimes but it's been worthwhile.

It's going well so far.

Well do you know what Quintin?

When your reputation as one of the best gardeners in Cambridgeshire goes around I've no doubt that you'll be able to afford another Spitfire in the not too distant future.

Let's hope so.

You're one of 16 siblings.

I am, yes.

Yes, I'm the Sims here.

Wow, 16 siblings.

Didn't tempt you.

I thought there'd be that would be the dummy.

All right.

Because it felt like maybe it would be, but then I thought, yeah, I thought that would be the dummy.

Then there'd be a...

a football-y thing.

I think we're witnessing the death of Four My Sins Corner, Dave.

If you're overthinking it now, then it's beyond repair, isn't it?

That's the evolution of the game, I suppose.

We're also pretty rusty.

We haven't had one for a while.

Yeah,

because Vernon's intro was quite, there was quite a lot of things there that he could have jumped in on, but he rattled off so many things.

Yeah.

Didn't give the guy a chance to come in.

I suppose being one of 16 siblings, particularly if you're maybe the youngest.

He's the 11th of them, apparently.

He's got it tattooed on his body.

Fair play.

It's not a bad For My Sins, though.

No.

You would have, you know, probably have to endure some tough times if you're one of six.

You wouldn't really wish that on

anyone, would you?

I mean, that's a lot.

That's a lot of siblings.

Extraordinary.

Right, now, Darren Fletcher and Ali McCoyst on duty for Newcastle versus Chelsea on TNT Sports.

Here we are in, of all minutes, the 69th.

I'll forget next week we're going to be at Goodison Park for it's going to be a very emotional Sunday, the last ever Everton game at that magnificent old stadium.

They've got Southampton next week.

11 o'clock, we start.

TNT Sports One and we'll bring you the full flavor of the day.

There's going to be lots and lots of emotion on Merseyside.

It's going to be a special place to be, I think, Ali, this time next week.

Yeah,

one of my favorite stadiums over the years, Darn.

No doubt about that.

Have you ever scored there?

I have, believe it or not.

So have I?

Yeah.

Anyway, here's Enzo Fernandez.

Dave, I put it to you, you know, as keen connoisseurs as we are of sort of mid-game commentary chuckling,

this is the most powerful guffawing I've ever seen between a commentary pair on a live broadcast.

They properly went for it, they properly amused themselves with that one, and they just let it go.

It's proper end-of-season stuff, isn't it?

The shackles are off a little bit.

You know, is Fletch on the beach?

I'm not sure.

Still got some big games coming up, to be fair.

Right, next up, this came from Finley.

Rather subtle one.

Celtic have already been crowned champions up in Scotland, Dave, but the headline in The Guardian after they beat Hibbernian at the weekend was Celtic surge 20 points clear at top after comeback to beat inform Hibbs.

Is the concept of surging X points clear worthwhile when you've already won the title?

I mean, you know, sizable differences between first and second place is always worthy of note, but you don't need to surge anywhere if you've already won it, have you?

No, it's not remarkable at all, is it?

After you've already sealed the title, but then I guess on the flip side, the fact that they have won the title does gives you a bit of a problem if you're an editor.

What do you actually go with?

What is the line in such a game?

I mean, you can still...

Yeah, surging is a bit weird.

I mean, I guess it's like sort of surging after the finish line a little bit.

Like, the race is done.

you don't really need to do it.

But I can also kind of see if it felt like quite emphatic.

And maybe do these things matter?

I mean, I can sort of imagine, you know, that it's only happened X number of times.

20 points is something.

20 points is a big deal.

Yeah, I mean, it's a big old gap, isn't it?

The headline does rather imply that it's all still alive.

Now, finally, Jim McNulty has a question for us, Dave.

He says, how long of the season must be left for fans to be able to say a player should rot in the reserves?

There's been plenty of he should never play for the club again since Trent Alexander Arnold's video, but little in the way of reserve rotting.

Can you rot in the reserves for, you know, a couple of games?

I mean, how long?

What's the standard standard period of time for a reserve rocket would you say?

I mean it's got to be measured in months surely I mean it's such a sort of antiquated concept now though these days isn't it

in the under 23s let it rot in the reserve let it rot in the development squad

doesn't doesn't quite sound as bad but it is worse though like at least the reserves had something there was a there was some sort of stature to them at least there wasn't there was a minor importance to them they played games and they were considered like a team of their of their own but the under 23s it's weird actually at the at the the last in the last game of the season for watford when they did the awards uh on the pitch after the after the game they gave out player of the season young player and all that our player of the season imran loser when asked about his season and what does this mean to you and everything he started off his answer by saying well look you know in the start of the season i was made to train with the under 23s

which is like quite a weird i've never really heard a player sort of talk about it in that in that sense but it was quite weird for him to mention it out loud on the pitch like that but i guess it is the same it's the equivalent isn't it yeah i guess now it's sort of been replaced in football parks with like the bomb squad where you know you've got you've got like three or four players who have to train with the under-23s when a new manager comes in and wants to kind of stamp their authority what sort of player in a generic sense charlie um gets the let him rot in the reserves treatment is it like a wanta way contract rebel yeah yeah yeah i think it's someone who yeah who's made it clear they want to leave or has done something that's like you know like Tevez, I'm sure, when he refused to go on in a game, didn't he?

And I'm sure people would have been saying, let him rot in the reserves.

If he doesn't want to play for this football club, he can rot in the reserves.

I think these days, though,

as we've remarked on a few times this season, fans are so switched on to the PSR, to value, depreciation of assets and stuff.

And it's like, we can't let him.

We know he'll lose all his value

if he rots in the reserves.

That's it.

It's been overtaken.

Different considerations now.

Well, and also, there'd then be the people who are kind of the experts on the under-23s who'd be like, well, you can't do that.

That will stop the game time of Player X, who's been brilliant at left back this season.

There are so many layers to rotting in the reserves now.

Oh, yeah, that's disrespectful to the Academy coaches.

That's it.

I think we've nailed this.

Thanks, Jim McNulty.

Anyway, speaking of people who've been exiled to the periphery of things for an extended period of time, it's I'm picky as a Grey Corner.

Right, oh, an absolute bumper package of things from Doha now.

Richard Keyes,

great.

He's on it with VAR decisions at the moment, Charlie.

This was Nicholas Jackson's red car for Chelsea at Newcastle, and he tweeted, Well, they got there, but Brooks should see that in real time.

Why two minutes 45 delay and so many replays?

I'm 3,500 miles away and knew that was a red at first sight.

Yes!

I love it.

I love the whole 50 miles away in Stockley Park thing being flicked on its head.

Why?

What?

I mean, does he know off the top of his head, Dave, how far Doha is away?

I haven't even checked.

I just, why throw it in?

Stood on top of the Burj Khalifa with a massive telescope.

Yep, I've looked at it again.

Definite red.

Yeah, just set the tone for absolutely everything.

Keys and Gray on BN Sports this weekend talking about the huge issues at the tail end of the Premier League season.

Here they are on the potential badge change at Newcastle United.

Now, what's wrong with that?

Nothing.

Nothing, in my opinion.

Listen, I'm not a Newcastle fan, but I've known and seen that all my

career.

That instantly you see it, says Newcastle United.

100%.

Classic.

It's stood the test of 37 years since it was last changed, but they're talking at Newcastle now changing it because it's expensive to replicate and put onto

leisure clothing, for instance.

Let me put the counter-argument for the sake of

balance in a modern world.

Yeah, what's wrong with you?

Shouldn't it change?

Shouldn't it change?

Should be simpler?

Shouldn't it be easier?

Just because it's a modern world.

On the eye.

Just because it's a modern world, does that mean we have to change everything?

No, but life evolves.

Yeah, it does.

But tradition is also something that we hold dearly in football and in sports.

Maybe we hold it too closely to our hearts.

Maybe we should be more expansive.

But

I like that.

I don't think that's really like that.

Power, we're standing firm,

immovable.

There's nothing wrong with it for me.

Strange, but you know what, there's always someone somewhere who wants to change something.

Always.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

This is more of a chat for their podcast, RIP, by the way,

Dave, because this shouldn't be something they should be spending 90 seconds on on a live broadcast in B in studios.

But I love how they just spin it out into a what is the world like these days.

It's sort of like Keese's blog is sort of seeping into the editorial coverage of the show as well.

This will make the blog.

I don't reckon this will make the blog.

The off-cuts.

Yeah.

Could be in the AOB section down at the bottom.

By the way,

anger the Geordie faithful at your peril.

It's the most half-assed devil's advocating as well from Keesey.

For balance.

Yeah, for balance.

Because he also doesn't even want to do it too much because he knows that Gray's so malleable that if he overdoes it, then Gray might, and he almost does, go like, yeah, no, yeah, no, fair point.

So he has to kind of do it a little bit, but not, but then quickly does run it and be like, no, but no, no, but I do like it.

I mean, it's not Keesy reaching for, and it stood the test of 37 years.

Somewhat undermined his point.

This is great because at first it looks like they're just something they've just cobbled together, but they've obviously done a bit of research and you can tell the moment of their research, so they go, they probably had this for like 120 years.

I was thinking, oh no, bollocks.

It's only been 37 years.

But Andy Gray, I mean, let's fact check this, Charlie.

Andy Gray is saying that Newcastle had that badge for all of his football career.

Andy Gray played one season in English football, 1987, 98, when Newcastle had that badge.

Before that, it was just that sort of weirdly kind of balloon, balloon letters, and it was vaguely comical.

And there's no way they thought that was better.

They've got on their shirt this, their away shirt this season.

They've got this retro badge, haven't they?

Yeah.

So,

it's just railing against something that actually, to be fair, fair, hasn't even happened yet, which is the best thing.

So, incredible use of a couple of minutes of paid-for broadcasting.

Did Keesy say that that badge inspires an image of power as well?

Power, immovability,

two seahorses.

I could take on them, easy

madness, 100 seahorses and Richard Keeks

in the water or out.

Crucially, Keesy in snorkeling gear.

Right, anyway, next up, a quick one.

Richard Keys shows us the headlines in Spain.

Marker today.

It's the time.

Es el momento.

It's the time.

It's more Italian than Spanish, I think, Charlie.

But why go for it either way?

Declamatory from Keesy.

That was extraordinary.

El es momento.

Yeah.

Anyway, right.

If you got the impression that the Premier League season was kind of meandering to a close, Dave, and they were just running out of real serious talking points.

They've already discussed Newcastle's possible badge change, of course.

Here's Richard Keyes talking about the line-up of games on BN Sports on Saturday.

Andy Gray has a quick question for him.

Goals from the other three as they're scored during the course of the game between Saints and Manchester City.

And then we're just a little bit along the Jurassic coast tonight,

Bournemouth meets Aston Villa.

This one's far south.

How far south?

South Africa.

Saints to Bournemouth.

I'm guessing about 40 miles.

About 40 miles.

Yeah.

It's the sort of thing they would chat about at the golf club.

Yeah, about 40 miles, yeah.

30, 40, 40, 50.

What is it?

20 players?

70s, 80s?

70s?

80s, 90s.

Easy will have a preferred route as well, won't he?

I think.

Oh, you don't think he's going as the crow flies.

A lot of footballers, they love talking about, you know, yeah, yeah, you get the M3 up there, then actually, if you take the first turn and you come off on the A3, whatever.

Middle-aged people generally, I mean, it's such a gap between that generation.

Like, oh, how did you get here?

I don't know, just went where Google Maps told me.

I mean, absolutely.

I mean, in many ways, I wasn't remotely surprised that it became a small topic of conversation between those two because it just feels like something that they would just, you know, you know, quickly bat around.

But Keese wasn't far off.

As the crow flies, Southampton to Bournemouth, Dave, well, it's 39 kilometers.

So if he's just got his units mixed up, he's bang on.

Bang on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not far off.

Yeah.

I don't know how many times they've done that drive.

Yeah, a lovely adjudication panel say.

Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

We'll be back on Thursday with the Football Cliches Quiz 19.

See you then.

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