Pope John Gregory, Premier League clubs as supermarkets & route-one crowd noise

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Absolutely incredible! He launched himself six feet into the crowd and kung fu kicked a supporter who was eye without a shadow of a doubt getting him

The medium-sized Michael Jewry mystery solved. Managers accidentally inviting us to their birthday parties.
Clive Teldsley's saucy substack. Fascinatingly named Malaysian referees.

Chris Sutton's 606 role-playing.

The most specific they're celebrating-like like scenario ever presented, the most perfectly flowing EFL crowd noise of the season, and the most hands over the head clapping the fans after a game manager in the prem, past or present.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts. This is Football Clichés.

Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry.
This is the Midweek Adjudication Panel. Joining me is Nick Miller.
How you doing? I'm very well. How are you? I'm good.

83rd cap for you in England terms. You're John Stones and Jordan Henderson.
That's quite neat, isn't it? So

you've got you into the modern day, at least, scraping you in into the picture.

The number of kind of old world players with that amount of caps is dwindling now, given the amount of games that England played these days in comparison to before. Yeah, it's a good point.

Yeah, you've still got Billy Wright and Peter Shilton to come in the distance. Be a good day when I overtake Schiltz.
Yeah, big time. Alongside you is David Walker.
How are you doing? I'm okay.

A A few matters to take care of before we get into the education panel proper.

Now, it's probably not the biggest mystery this podcast will ever solve, but we were confronted with a footballer's names in things from DJ Spooney's Beauty Radio 2 show the other day, Michael Dewberry.

Listener Michael Dubry just emailing in to the show.

We speculated, not wildly, that DJ Spooney may well know Michael Dewberry.

I threw in a completely random name to kind of flesh out this possibility.

So this is how our theory went. Good evening, also, to Michael Dewberry, who's listening tonight.
He's texting to say that he's locked and loaded. I reckon this is the Michael Dubry.
Why wouldn't it?

It can't be that many. It could be.
It can't be that many. We should try and we need to dig into this.
Has anyone got a number for Michael Dubry? Can we? That's pretty much why I'm pausing here.

We should be able to do this. This is quite a mundane detail.
Who do I call to find this out? Jodie Morris? I don't know. Forget his number, just say Michael.
And lo and behold, via the El Loco Gnome,

here is Jodie Morris talking about his goal celebration when Chelsea beat Manchester United 5-0 back in October 1999.

The celebration. I've got a friend, DJ Spooney, Jonathan Joseph, and we was quite close.
Me, Michael Dewberry, Andy Myers, Kieran Dyer, Mil Heskey.

We'd holiday together in Iron Appa, and it was just something that he'd done when he was behind the DJ booth when we used to go and support him.

Of course it was IANAPA, Dave. Of course it was.
Yeah, we were onto something there. Yeah, it all feels right.

And I mean, yeah, we speculated that they'd maybe just hung out in the same clubs, but it seems like they're actually best mates. Yeah.

I mean, and then you throw on top the fact, Nick, that there's just, there's no one else in the world called Michael Jewry. There's just no chance.
So

it all fits together really well. But the Jodie Morris clincher is a wonderful kind of coincidence, really.
Of all the names I could have picked, there he was. Yeah, perfect.

One thing, you said Kieran Dyer in there. So for some reason, in my head, Kieran Dyer and Michael Jubry are in completely different football universes.
I don't know.

They probably did play at roughly the same time, but I don't associate them with

them with the same era at all. They meet up in Napa.
It's all fine. A surreal week for you in many respects, though, Dave, because.

Another what?

Yeah, yeah.

On the same day, you were invited to an EFL manager's 60th birthday party this year by mistake.

So I woke up this morning, Wednesday morning, and it's quite rare these days that I get an SMS text message.

And it's usually bad news as well. It's usually like something, you know, like the bank or

the doctors or something, isn't it?

But I saw one when I put my phone up this morning when I woke up, and I noticed that it was from, I won't name him just, you know, to protect his dignity here.

But a, yeah, a former EFL manager who I have had dealings with in the past. And I think he's done an all contacts send.
He sent this message.

He must have sent this message to absolutely everyone in his phone book. And it says, good morning, it's my 60th birthday this year.

So I'm having an old-fashioned party at my house and would love you to come.

Disco and dance, flashing lights, dance floor, drinks, cocktails, Prosecco, an old-fashioned spread, late-night barbecue, all good people, 7pm till late.

Fire emoji, clown emoji, two dancing emojis, another fire emoji, champagne emoji, glasses clinking emoji, cocktail emoji.

Everything you could possibly want. Sounds great, to be fair.
I might just take him up on it, just turn up and see what happens.

I wonder if we've got enough internet sleuths among our listenership, Nick, to work out who this manager is just on the basis of that information alone. I should probably, yeah, to take out the date.

That might give it away. Yeah, edit out the date.

Make it a level eight in the guesting manager's birthdays. The thing is, he hasn't actually included his address, so if I do want to go, I'll have to reply, which then potentially blows my cover.

And he might rescind the invitation. Drinks, cocktails, and Prosecco.
Fantastic. Yeah.

It's the old-fashioned spread I liked, which in my head is just your classic, you know, baked potato with some cocktail sticks with, you know, cheese and pineapple in it. So that kind of thing.
Yeah.

Triangle sandwiches. Yeah, absolutely.

But yeah, I mean, that was weird enough. And then

in what some are calling the new Richard Keyes blog, Clive Tilsley on his sub stack the other other day was talking once again about what makes good commentary and he wrote I once appeared on a podcast where a guest selected Jonathan Pierce's cacophonous capital radio description of an Alan Shearer goal at Euro96 as his very favourite piece of commentary.

The clip ended with JP uproariously chanting Super Al, Super Al, Super Alan Shearer, a tabloid radio gem. But would you all want radio commentary to be like that?

If they had asked the same person to recall the favourite sexual episode of his life, I dare say the brutally honest answer might have involved the back seat of a car or the office broom cupboard with someone they shouldn't have been with, and to the very vocal accompaniment of more howls and shrieks than even Rio and Robbie can yell out.

An oh my god fest. So essentially, Clive Tilsley has imagined you having sex.
Because that's you, isn't it? Is it me?

Yeah, it's from the third ever episode of Football Cliches, all the way back in 2020. We interviewed Clive Tilsley at Wembley for some reason.

And then we started talking about football commentary and you picked out that clip as one of your favourite ever episodes and I stand by it was one of your favourite ever lines of commentary I stand by it I think I said at the time it was the first line of radio commentary that I could ever remember really making an impact and and and it was because it was on the the three lines 98 edition I think either capital did a version themselves or whether it was on the main one but I remember hearing it over the uh over the opening notes of Three Lions um and yeah I think I've said more than once on this podcast that if you you you know, when push comes to shove, I think Jonathan Pierce is probably my favourite commentator of all time.

With apologies to Clive and the rest of his esteemed colleagues. But I mean, the second paragraph is a bit disturbing.

Yeah.

I mean, Nick, do you think of Dave as a backseat of a car merchant or more of an office broom cupboard ace?

Can you be an ace of that kind of thing? I'm not sure. That's actually why he left the athletic listeners.

But yeah, a surreal turn of events, and I don't know what was going on. Next up, more correspondence on how popes correspond with football.

Mr.Internet2000 on Reddit was perusing, Nick, a list of papal names, the most common names given to popes in history. Do you know what the top two are?

John and Gregory.

Nice. And he goes on to say that given in 1978, the first Pope John Paul chose the name John Paul to honor his two immediate predecessors.

it's not impossible that there could be a Pope John Gregory someday.

For some reason, I can sort of imagine him in the cardinal get-up. Yeah, I mean, maybe it's about his time.

Hopefully, though, he'll have more compassion this time when Cardinal Dwight York decides to leave the Catholic Church.

Pope John Gregory, that would be that would be the ultimate footballers' names and things. Well,

right, belatedly, it's time to adjudication panel. This first one comes from Luke Martin.
It's from BBC Radio 5 Live at the weekend. To Cardiff and Molly.
Cardiff won, Oxford one, it ends.

A Yusuf Salek header for the opener and then a goal the hosts could do nothing about. Oxford captain Cameron Brannigan launched it into the top corner from 35 yards.

Luke Martin asks, Nick, it's an interesting use of launched here. I think I've only ever heard of it used for crosses or clearances.

I can't see why it's not a regular adjective for shooting when I think about it. Does it work?

There's no reason why launch shouldn't work for a shot, should it? No, No, perfectly happy with that. I mean, I suppose the objection would be that launch implies a lot of verticality.

Verticality, there you go. Yeah.
But it's still, as long as it's a if it's one of those shots that just kind of rises all the time, then

there's nothing wrong with it on that level. But yeah, I don't think there's a problem with it at all.
Surely it's the sort of natural extension of a rocket. Yeah.
What do you do with rockets?

You launch them. A howitzer.
An exercise. Have you seen the goal in question? I haven't.
It is a rocket. It's a proper rising top corner from 35 yards, still rising as it goes in.

I mean, there's a mundane explanation for this, Nick.

You know, you know, it's sheer force of usage over the years has made launched a kind of crossing and also kind of, you know, Hail Mary style situation. Get it launched.

And there's an implication of aimlessness about it, but launching in its traditional sense, rockets of any kind, space or missiles, um they require an element of precision right well ideally yeah targeting yeah it's it's a bit of a pejorative really uh when used in any other context apart from shooting yeah i mean claim launching yeah if you were launching a podcast you you know you'd put some thought into it wouldn't you just launch it just

get it out tomorrow just launch it there are a lot a lot of podcasts out there doesn't seem like there's much thought gone into some of them you know indeed yeah but i i guess you need something a little bit more aggressive for shots generally it's like unleashed for example you know things like let's fly let's fly is essentially launched though isn't it so yeah let's fly let's fly is weird isn't it let's let's get launched in front of let's fly from now on in the pecking order um dave now question for you if i give you the vaguely footballing phrase turning back the clock slash rolling back the years what's the classic scenario for this could it be to use a contemporary example kevin de bruyer putting in an excellent performance just days after announcing he was going to leave man city heralding the end of his Premier League career.

It'd be a smashing rolling back of the years. You want to go back a good four or five to that player's pomp, and then they suddenly produce a performance worthy of that era.
A very established

sporting thing, but this headline from Rum247, Nick, was sent to us, and it says, British legend Paula Radcliffe turns back the clock as she tops her age category in the Boston Marathon.

I mean, that defeats the point of turning back the clock if it's your age category, isn't it? You just seem to be performing the same as you are already. Yeah, I guess so.

Although, maybe if she clocked a particularly good time, like a time that was somewhere near to, you know, her

from her pomp. I don't think she was.
That's the whole point. Well, rolling back the years feels a little bit more appropriate than turning back the clock.

Because the clock is very specifically tied to your sort of age, isn't it? But if she put in a...

And I don't know if she's been running consistently since she retired as an elite level runner or not, but if she hadn't been and she's turned up and tops her age category in the Boston Marathon, then

I think that's a rolling about the years, isn't it? I mean, that begs the question, did she roll back the years in any other way on

the marathon? For God's sake.

Dave, come on. Well, that's very accepting of you in this case.
All right, let's move on then. Listen, fair play to the podcast advertising algorithm here.

This came from Marne Season on Reddit from Tuesday's episode.

I mean, this does beg the extended debate of who is Tesco and who's Sainsbury's. Save that for another day.
That's for the Reddit, I think. Yeah.
Yeah, fine.

Right, we'll be back with part three very shortly, and it's another great keys and grey, by the way.

Rollback's back at Asda. Stock up for the Easter holidays with thousands of prices.
Roll back across the store and online. Wow.
All right, Black Mirror, what's going on?

I mean, I think that's a genuine, well, coincidence, but actually, it does tie into what we were talking about.

You know, I mentioned as they are purposefully going on a bit of a charm offensive at the moment, they are rolling back the years as we discussed.

Yeah, yeah, that actually works in so many ways for them. This is great.
But yeah, we had no hand in that.

That was pure algorithm there.

Anyway, as hinted at on that episode, Nick, Discovered Unknown on Reddit has taken it upon themselves to put together the definitive if supermarkets were football clubs rundown.

I think this is more or less spot on. Different tastes may well disagree.

Asda Everton, a consistent player in years gone by, but dogged by ownership news in recent years, seems to have lost its way as what made them great.

Feeling all right about that one? Yeah,

maybe if they built a few new kind of shiny stores. Yeah, a new single store.
Yeah, exactly. Get them back to their former glories.

And as I mentioned the other day, the American takeover thing works nicely as well with Asda and Everton. Okay, we're going super literal with this, which is fine.

Tesco Manchester United, Dave, absolute goliath through the 1990s and early 2000s, dominated the game like no other.

Lost market share to other players since, but remains the biggest player in the game.

Deemed too big to fail, and although United's performance is struggling, still deemed a huge club, and one day will no doubt get back to the top. Yeah.
You know what?

I could picture Gary Neville walking around a Tesco going, this is Tesco here. This is Tesco supermarket we're talking about here at this moment in time.
At this moment in time.

As we already decreed on the pod the other day, Nick, Aldi is Brighton, trendy, German influence, gets things done on a budget without sacrificing quality, gives the big guys a bloody nose and punches well above their weight.

Meanwhile, Liddle, Brentford, the light version of Aldi, never too far away from them. Aldi takes all the limelight.

But I'll tell you something, don't forget about Liddle, because that German discount supermarket doesn't get the praise it deserves sometimes. It's a great pairing.
This has to be.

absolutely spot on can't can't pick holes in that at all yeah

it's like money ball for supermarkets they've they've they've perfected the system haven't they dave do we know whether their chief executives get on or not

speaking of which um the the brains behind asda's you know potential resurgence alan layton was apparently the deputy chairman of leeds back in the back in the early 2000s or late 90s early 2000s um you know the the real salad days so the live the dream era yeah exactly so uh

be careful what you wish for asda um let's move on sainsbury's aston villa says uh discovered unknown a premium supermarket without the snobby attitude rich history and always being up there just a few good decisions away from being the supermarket on everyone's lips i i like this nick because there's a grand history to both of those institutions yeah i seem to remember sainsbury's also had a a kind of a bit of a crisis you know a few years ago which may coincide with villa getting relegated yeah

there's a charming datedness to both of them, but that doesn't count out a resurgence for either. I think Sainsbury's staff uniforms are claret as well, aren't they?

Ah, yeah, you think of them as an orangey thing, but no, there's a lot of claret involved. Okay, so it does work.

Claret tabard with a

orange piping.

Great use of tabard. Waitrose, Chelsea, Nick, seen as the most expensive of the lot, not afraid of putting down big money on exotic produce.

Expensive prices, not afraid to put their money where their mouths are. Flash, some might say cocky, seen as trendy and dominates the home counties.

And often expensive, but not as not quite as good as you'd expect for that kind of money as well. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I'm starting to become more of an MNS man, actually, Dave.

And speaking of which, MNS Food Hall Arsenal, steeped in tradition going back over a hundred years, a loyal fan base who have always stayed true to them.

Lost their way significantly in the mid-2000s to late 2010s, enjoying an almighty resurgence and surge in popularity.

My nan used to to do her weekly shopping at MNS, and she was born a stone's throw from Highbury. There you are.

If you need any further evidence, yeah. It's Sainsbury's and Aston Villa, but just elevated, basically.

Morrisons, Newcastle, Nick, always lagged behind the other Goliaths of the supermarket game, still a player whose name has to be mentioned when you talk about your Asdas, Tesco's, and Sainsbury's.

Always a case of if they can make that step up to be talked about in the same circles as them rather than riding the coattail.

Great expectations with the Morrison's customers, isn't there? Riding the coattails used in terms of supermarkets is really excellent.

Wouldn't be massively surprising if both Mike Ashley used to have a stake in Morrison's and the Saudis now do.

Implausible. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Like, you'd be surprised to read it buried in a story somewhere that they actually own 60% of Morrison. It's like, oh, wow, fair play.

And you'd hear about it from these people who go, well,

you put petrol in your car, don't you? And you shop at Morrison's as well. Why are you complaining about Newcastle?

Yep. Finally, Co-op.
Spurs. The Poor Man's Waitrose, the shop you go when you have nowhere else to turn.
Not terrible, but never what you're looking for.

Usually when you've run out of options or time, known for overcharging on products you can get elsewhere cheaper. I don't feel strongly about this one.
Not much of a co-opsman.

I sort of see what you mean. I mean, it's kind of the last supermarket left.
What about Costco? Has anyone Costco? Never been. Buying in...
Bulk.

I think we've had quite enough of that, but yeah, that will be the definitive list of supermarkets of football clubs. So thank you.

Discovered unknown you've sorted us right out for the midweek education panel um time for footballers names in things it came from matthew bycroft breakfast clubs are opening this morning at more than 700 schools in england as part of a trial that will run until the end of term in july parents will be able to drop off their children half an hour early though some concerns have been raised by teaching unions about the funding of the scheme a number of schools have already trialled the clubs dawn aldridge is the business manager at high green school in sheffield and she says children have really enjoyed the experience i don't care that it's Dawn Aldrich, Nick.

I heard John Aldridge, and that's all that matters. Just furious with the

clipboard-wielding breakfast club administrator going, get me on, get me in there.

Love it. Superb.
Meanwhile, Dave, we heard on Tuesday's episode about the Malaysia national team captain being named after Dion Dublin and Johan Croyff, which we found very amusing indeed.

Someone wrote in on Reddit about some other Malaysian footballers. It's pretty common over here, they they said.

You've got Gabriel Nistelroy Tamin at JDT FC, Gabriel Battasuta at Derling FC, and Diego Baggio Test at Kuching City. Sarawak have a player called Gyorgi Kinkladzi Tom.

And to top this off, he says, I was at a Penang game recently, and one of the match officials was called Mark Haitley Alep.

What's going on? Mark Haitley.

I would ideally like a referee to be named after another referee, like Paul Burkitt.

That sort of era. Yeah.

Was it Roger? Roger Gifford or something like that? Yeah,

Mark Haitley. What a legacy to leave.
I was just laid to see whether Mark Haitley had a spell in Malaysia towards the end of his career, but nowhere near it. But yeah, no, I checked this out.

Most recently,

presiding over a youth game in Malaysia. So, wow.
I mean... What a name.

Speaking of foreign names being corrupted for entertaining usage, a piece in the Eye by Sam Cunningham about speculating Nick that Reuben Amarim would be facing the sack at Maggies United if he was British.

Roy Hodgson, David Moyes and Graham Potter were all judged far more harshly than the Portuguese.

It contained the inevitable passage that says, it feels as if Reuben Amarim was called Robbie Arnold and had been born in Dudley, there would be an entirely different conversation.

But he would never would have got the job. By the laws of this convention, he never would have got the job in the first place.
Like quantum leap, you're just in there.

I'm not having Robbie Arnold, was it? As a kind of equivalent of Reuben Amarin. Surely Reuben.
This is fun. Just call him Reuben Arnold.
Robert Arnold. Robbie Arnold.

Robbie Arnold probably would mean getting a job in the EFL, I don't think. But yeah, some shade thrown at Dudley as well.
Isn't that Sam Alladyce's neck of the woods? Dudley. Yeah.

So yeah, maybe that's... But yeah, just...

Great to see these just constantly being fielded. It is wonderful.
Now, next up, Middlesbrough fan Alex went to watch his team's 2-1 defeat at Sheffield Wednesday on Monday.

His misery compounded in some senses by opening the match programme, Nick. And there's

what I would assume is an ongoing column from former Sheffield Wednesday player Mel Sterland. And it's a two-page spread.

First of which is dedicated to Mohamed Salah signing a new contract at Liverpool and what that means for the rest of the Premier League. Like watch out the Premier League.
And then the other bit was

about the return of free kick specialists, specifically Declan Rice and his double against Real Madrid.

And Alex says this is just totally unacceptable to have sort of a general appeal column in a match day programme. Is this a...

Do we know if it can anyone tell us if this is a common thing where they he always kind of discusses events of the day rather than you know something related to that particular club?

I mean there's some journalistic integrity to sort of spreading your spreading your content wings, isn't there, Dave? But just not in a match day programme.

Stick to current affairs for your own club I think. I don't know.
I mean you know you've got a fair old number of pages to fill on a match match day programme.

Obviously, these days, they are increasingly antiquated, but if you're flicking through it, I think a couple of pages of general topical stuff isn't bad. You're a noted columnist yourself, Nick.

You could get in a match day. I reckon you could get in a match day programme.
Oh, I've tried. Don't worry about that.

My freelance days are. That's quite a few of them.
Not haven't it? And now I realize I once had a clichés-related piece in the Loughborough Dynamo programme.

So I'm talking out my ass. Hey, go start somewhere.

fine there was there wasn't a single word about love for a dynamo in that piece so um no i'm all for it but um but yeah i mean i know clickbait match day program content that's what we're after transfer rumors next right this episode is brought to you in association with nordvpn for those who don't know vpn stands for virtual private network it secures your connection protecting your personal information and online activity especially on public wi-fi A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while traveling can be handy for all sorts of things as indeed it was to rich stevens who was listening to conor mcnamara going all snooker on the world feed commentary for leicester vs liverpool this is very odd

concentration here opportunity and it was simicas and her mansion pushes it away for the corner again nick i've never ever heard it speculated that the players need quiet to concentrate on what's going on.

The knowledgeable King Powell Stadium crowd.

That is really weird.

Like so like s Dominic Sobersley or something is gonna stop in the middle of the pitch and go d can you just in the commentary box hey, can you just keep you know the referee telling them to pipe down please?

Yeah. Yeah, someone's phone goes off and they're like come on while we're playing.
Why is a hush descending over the stadium? And was it actually? I I mean he picked up on something

and and that's how he rationalised it. Was it just like a long spell of possession for Liverpool and I didn't but it's got an ominous lull lull of like, you were about to concede, I guess.

I don't know. But maybe sort of snooker.
Can you imagine kind of a snooker kind of dynamic appearing in football crowdsense from now on?

Sort of hush, you know, a quiet hush, and then someone slides a through ball through and everyone sort of applauds like knowingly going, yeah, I love that. Could work.

Not good for English football atmospheres. I tell you what, though, Nick, I'm eagerly awaiting Fletch and Ali McCoy's snooker commentary this week on TNT.

Can you imagine McCoy's eager whispering as a frame hots up? He kind of of would be on the verge of not being able to contain himself all the time. Yeah.

But he's got enough respect for the game to, you know, to keep it quiet. I mean, I suppose Virgo occasionally will do the kind of, you know, we'll get a little bit excited.

Yeah, that's true. Virgo's not a million miles away from McCoyst in many respects.
But is he going to have to sort of rein himself in, Dave, sort of in every sense?

Was McCoyston, was he with John Parrott on question of sport? Were they the same era? Of course he was, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

I bet Ali knows a thing or two about a couple of frames of snooker. Yeah, Fletch is a multi-sportsman as well.
He's done boxing, he's done the

NFL. What's the thing where people build cars out of boxes and they go downhill? Oh, like the Red Ball.
Yeah, he does carb. Yeah.
Derby. Every time I hear it, I think, is that Fletch?

It's not quite Fletchy enough, but it actually is. There we are.

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Welcome back to Football Clichés. This is the midweek adjudication panel.
Let's pick things up with Mark Lightfoot, who was listening to 606 on Sunday.

Now, Nick, we don't tend to go near football phone-ins on this podcast, but I think an exception was worth making here as a furious Manchester United fan calls into Robbie Savage and Chris Sutton.

Right, let's go to Mason, who's a Manchester United fan. How are you, Mason?

Uh, yeah, not very good, mate. So I want to ask him a question.
Jim,

are you excited about what you are seeing, about what you've produced at the club? Are you excited? Are you entertained?

Well, I mean, if I just pretend to be Jim at this moment in time,

Mason. No, I'm not excited.
No, I'm not entertained.

This is a long-term plan, Mason.

No, I'm not tired of the plan. You need a bit of patience, Mason.
I'm doing my best.

Can I I speak?

I'm tired of that. It's a long-term plan.
Oh, we're going to get Ashworth in. We've got a long-term plan.
What happened with Ashworth?

Yeah, he was surplus to requirements. I made a quick call on him.
What do you mean he was surplus to requirements? They banged on.

They had caused issues with Newcastle for months on end as if Ashworth was a messiah. What do you mean he was surplus to requirements? Well, he didn't.

He didn't quite fit in as we would have liked, so we moved him out. The actual plan was based around him.
So you're telling me they didn't know what they were doing then?

Are you telling me then Ratcliffe has no clue what he's doing day by day? One minute Ashworth's the guy, and the next day he's not.

Just to be clear, Mason, I'm not Jim Ratcliffe, okay? I was just a little bit. No, but you just said he's got personal requirements.
Yeah, but that

he was pretending to be to Jim.

The point being,

Mason,

the point, I understand your frustration.

Wow. That role-playing sort of thing was never going to go well, was it? No.
A bit of a risk there. But fair play to Sutton for taking it on.
But it did somewhat unravel, didn't you?

Robbie Savage, just clarifying it for sure right at the end, Nick, was a lovely touch, I thought. Just in case you joined us midway through this conversation, this is not Jim Radcliffe.

I quite like the idea that the even the remote possibility that Ryan did think, oh, they've got Jim on. All right, great, I'm going to address my complaints to him.

Chris Sutton has Devil's Advocate written all over him, but I think that was a step too far.

Yes, that's the one and only 606 clip we'll have this year. Next up, Tom Dunn, who was listening to Jonathan Pierce on match of the day 2 duty for Fulham versus Chelsea on Sunday.

Seem to catch the Fulham player in an offside position. It's a very, very late flag, if that's the case.

I do have the semi-automated

offside technique here. The semi-automated technology doesn't doesn't come in at Ferrari pace, by the way, does it? More like Morris Minor pace, with all due respect to Morris Minor as I had one.

Now, in many respects, this is pure Jonathan Pierce in his current iteration, Nick.

But I am starting to think that you could piece together a whole Jonathan Pierce autobiography from old commentary clips.

Like, he's letting a little bit sort of slip every sort of couple of months about his past and his childhood and stuff.

I don't know what chapter we're up to now. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm sure I've definitely mentioned this on the podcast before, but the thing that always sticks in my mind is during the Women's World Cup in 2015, I think it was, went on an extended riff about the price of wet wipes in Canada.

I mean, it's got to be a small detail in there, isn't it? That's a whole chapter, definitely.

Yeah, we've heard about sort of childhood with like school teachers, Dave, I'm sure we've heard before, about how he did in his GCSEs.

So we're probably up to his kind of first adolescence now, yeah. 17, yeah.

My first car is pure autobiography fodder, isn't it? So yeah,

I would read it.

i'm fascinated by his journey all those miles he clocked up in the morris minor during his days as a young and up-and-coming commentator and reporter you wouldn't uh you wouldn't catch him speculating on the sex life of uh potential colleagues would you no no not going to see him on sub stack anytime soon now next up finn maunder writes in very impressive intro here over the last 18 months i've worked in the health system of a small town high in the peruvian andes and i regularly go out running in the mornings to stay fit runners are an uncommon sight on these mountain roads and the drivers often link to honk in what I assume is support.

But they honk in the same way as the England band tries to get a chant going during an unconvincing 2-1 home victory over Slovenia. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, England.

Right? However, there's one crucial difference. In Peru, they just do the first bit.
The beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, repeated. ad infinitum.

No ending, no satisfying denouement of the last two bars of the rhythm. The lack of resolution in the honking leaves me profoundly discomforted.

I feel like I'm being encouraged, but that the encouragers aren't sure whether they should be doing it.

I suppose it's better than the long and aggressive honk, but this unresolved honk weighs far more on me than it should. Am I out of my lane here?

I mean that would that would that would rattle you if you were, you know, English bred. It might be, yeah, the first time you heard it you'd be expecting to that full stop, wouldn't you?

But I think it's still preferable to cars slowly creeping up behind you with the great escape

beeping up the great escape just as you trudge up the Peruvian Andes hanging over the edge of the cliff. Oh my goodness, I didn't think of that.
That's a very good shout.

But finally, Nick, this is a use for one of my old football videos, one of my treasured old VHS tapes.

It's the Smiths Crisp's Greatest Moments of World Soccer from 1990, which I which I watched many, many times.

It's presented by a very wooden Brian Robson with the voiceover from Jim Rosenthal. And I was suddenly reminded of this as I heard about this conundrum of the whistle.

Socrates bursts through Italy's defence and shoots through goalkeeper Zoph's legs.

Now it's Brazil's turn to celebrate, as only they and their fans know how.

So there you go. It's a South American thing.
They just don't do the last bit. And that's how it's always been.

Whether that does match or not, the origin of the football rhythm suddenly preoccupied me in the lead-up to this recording. And it turns out that

is from 1962's Let's Go by the Reuters.

Wow. That's where it was invented.

Yeah, that makes sense. Sort of early 60s.
I think there were quite a lot of those now traditional chants that originated from sort of 50s 50s and 60s kind of music.

You don't get royalties for that though, do you? I guess.

Right, next up, Joe Barrow was listening to Talk Sport as Perry Groves watches the Chelsea celebrations after their late winner against Fulham.

The full-time whistle was blown, Perry Groves, and Chelsea players celebrating that almost like they had won a cup final. But there is real significance to that second half display.

Yeah, you thought they'd won the FA Cup semi-final, wouldn't you, Natalie, to be fair?

Because, say, the way they celebrate, some of the players went on the floor, they were lying like fully prone, then the other players went over to the chelsea fans over on the left-hand corner of Craven Cottage to celebrate with them Dave this is a fascinatingly specific addition to the celebrating like they've just genre but celebrating like they've won an FA Cup semi-final which which as we know it's a momentous occasion winning a semi-final like it's you know some think it's better than a final in in terms of its magnitude as as a spectacle has he has he nailed the sort of comparison here i agree i think back to 2019 when watford got to the fa cup final obviously mean means maybe a little bit more to a smaller club, but in some ways, I think the semi-finals, because you've got it all ahead of you.

You've achieved

Wembley.

You know, the England semifinals that we've been in recently, you know, when we've won them in the Euros, yes, okay, we're yet to experience what it would be like to win the final, and that would be a whole nother stratosphere of celebrations, but it would be a full stop on something.

It'd be completing something, but getting yourself to that position where you could win it, I think there's something special about that.

Yeah, I quite like this from perry groves nick i mean it's it's good to get specific with this we've all got football brains we can always tally this stuff with something and unless it was done by mistake i really like it is there an element that it was slightly passive aggressive by but the the presenter said finally he quietly downgraded it from final to semi-final that adds to it more like a semi-final to me um so i mean yeah so yeah so players running off in different different directions but not in a in a in a sort of we've won the trophy kind of way just just and then there were some players who collapsed to the floor because they were just knackered and they'd done it at the last minute.

Yeah, so that's a little bit semi-finally, but but you don't want to make it too finally, you don't want to make it too like we've shown it, we've done it.

No confetti, but it's but it is a release, yeah, no dancing up and down singing Champione, they didn't do that, as far as I understand. Um, now, lovely bit of crowd noise for you next.

This came from Sam Grindley, and he claims you'll never hear a better oh, your shit, ah, leading straight to a goal at the other end than this during Charlton's home game against against Northampton last week.

The football flows perfectly, Dave, and the sound follows suit. I mean, it...
The Yorshit R tails off just as Chucks and Eki flicks on the long punt, up thrill from Will Mannion.

And then Matty Godden latches onto it and that's when the home crowd take over and there's that you can't see the joins. Is it upfield or downfield? No.

It is perfect. Yeah, because I think there's still some lingering ah just as the striker gets through, shoots.
I mean, I think this is second touch or whatever, shoots, puts it past the goalkeeper.

It's perfect.

And what's interesting as well is this is a perhaps the lesser spotted or maybe more increasingly common your shit ah, your shit airing of a goalkeeper who's got the ball in his hands and has rolled it out to kick it.

It's not a goal kick, this. Yeah.

And that's kind of fine. I mean, you still get that kind of pause to build it up, Nick.
So it's a technicality I'm comfortable with. Yeah, it's absolutely fine.

I think that just going back to the sounds of it, it's perfect because

it's like someone's mixing in the two things together. It's a spot on.
Like a DJ or something.

There's just enough. There's a little bit of overlap.

There's just enough so it never goes quiet, but not so much that it kind of bleeds in distractingly the ah has come to a natural conclusion as well so it's not like the the the chance of scoring the goal has interrupted that no exactly exactly there's nothing abrupt about it it's just as the flick on is made and and and then it immediately becomes obvious that it's a goal scoring opportunity so they fade out and the home code comes in and i'm very grateful day for the microphones being near the away fans to level it up so that it's an even it's an even playing field audially yeah yeah really really nice um but we should also remember that whilst it might look, you know, if you consider the whole scenario, Nick, it might look like an egg-on-face, premature, hubris kind of situation.

I feel like

we should reiterate that your shit R exists outside of that kind of dynamic. It's self-contained.
Like, it's never an, it can never be looked at in hindsight as a pride before fall situation.

It's just something that happens. You call the other goalkeeper shit, and it doesn't matter what happens after that.
Yeah, absolutely.

You're getting into the whole realm of you don't take football chance literally seriously. So, Yeah, a pre-assist for Will Mannion.

If this was a game taking place in the north of the country, with the addition of the U-Ship bastard ah, would that have taken us slightly too close to the...

If the bastard had coincided with the flick-on, that would have been incredible.

I think it would have done. Yeah, oh, well, yeah.
I'm about to

play around with the audio on that one. But yeah, just tremendous stuff.
Right, finally. A question from unnamed poster93, Nick.
Rightly staying anonymous for this.

Who is the most hands over the head clapping the fans after a game manager in the prem, past or present? Cannot personally see anybody else other than Gary O'Neill, they say. Strange choice.

Doesn't feel like the definitive option here at all.

That's quite good.

Yeah, I think Gary O'Neill, I can, I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of others will come to mind, but Gary O'Neill, he had that little spell where, you know, both at Bournemouth and at Wolves,

it often felt like he was really making a point that I am actually good enough. Yeah, we've won.
And yes, you you know, he really wanted to make it known that it was him.

Yeah, it's part of the earnest armory of a manager like that. A little bit.
Franiseroy did it as well, didn't he? When he had that little spell at Man United.

I mean, it's a common piece of managerial body language, no question, Nick. But who did it best? I've got Daishi my head, I have to say, a very aggressive above-head clapper.

Daishi, but he doesn't, in my head, he's striding purposely off the pitch while doing it. Yeah, the Turfmoor tunnel is so far away from the dugouts that he.
Exactly.

Yeah, it's just, it lends itself more to it. Yeah.

Sort of angling his look away to the fans as he goes yes lampard's quite above head clappy and that comes from his playing days i guess so that's just muscle memory does feel like more of a young man's thing doesn't it

i don't think roy hodgins getting the arms up that high is he

i mean again you're going very literal with this and his actual physiology of roy hodson but i have to say he is the first old manager i could think of and i thought can i imagine him doing it no not really he's more of a chest chest level clapper yeah

in fact i don't think i think he would frown upon the clapping at the crowd at all. I think it might just be a little wave and a nod, and then off he goes.
So, I don't know.

We've answered it in some ways. Thanks to you, Nick.
You can give yourself a clap above the head if you like. Thank you very much.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker, despite the lurid allegations about your private life.

Hey, look, we don't know for sure that he was talking about me, okay? So, okay, he didn't name the podcast specifically. Yeah, and thanks to everyone for listening.
We'll be back on Tuesday.

See you then.

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