Pope John Gregory, Premier League clubs as supermarkets & route-one crowd noise

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Speaker 7 Tis the season to cozy up with all your favorite holiday movies and shows.

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Speaker 11 I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

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Speaker 12 Absolutely incredible. He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eyewit without a shadow of a doubt getting him lip.
Oh, I say!

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Speaker 12 This nation is going to dance all night!

Speaker 13 The medium-sized Michael Jewry mystery solved.

Speaker 15 Managers accidentally inviting us to their birthday parties.

Speaker 19 Clive Tealsley's saucy sub stack.

Speaker 15 Fascinatingly named Malaysian referees.

Speaker 21 Chris Sutton's 606 role-playing.

Speaker 22 The most specific they're celebrating-like scenario ever presented, the most perfectly flowing EFL crowd noise of the season, and the most hands-over-the-head clapping the fans after a game manager in the prem, past or present.

Speaker 22 Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

Speaker 26 This is Football Clichés.

Speaker 13 Hello everyone, and welcome to Football Clichés.

Speaker 19 I'm Adam Hurry.

Speaker 28 This is the Midweek Adjudication Panel. Joining me is Nick Miller.
How you doing?

Speaker 30 I'm very well. How are you?

Speaker 31 I'm good.

Speaker 24 cap for you in England terms. You're John Stones and Jordan Henderson.

Speaker 30 That's quite neat, isn't it? So

Speaker 35 you've got you into the modern day, at least, scraping you in into the picture.

Speaker 30 The number of kind of old world players with that amount of caps is dwindling now, given the amount of games that England play these days in comparison to before.

Speaker 36 Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 24 Yeah, you've still got Billy Wright and Peter Shilton to come in the distance.

Speaker 30 Be a good day when I overtake Schiltz.

Speaker 35 Yeah, big time.

Speaker 27 Alongside you is David Walker. How are you doing?

Speaker 31 I'm okay.

Speaker 27 A few matters to take care of before we get into the education panel proper.

Speaker 23 Now it's probably not the biggest mystery this podcast will ever solve but we were confronted with a footballer's names in things from DJ Spooney's BC Radio 2 show the other day.

Speaker 25 Michael Dewberry.

Speaker 14 Listener Michael Dubry just emailing in to the show.

Speaker 28 We speculated, not wildly, that DJ Spoony may well know Michael Dewberry.

Speaker 42 I threw in a completely random name to kind of flesh out this possibility.

Speaker 27 So, this is how our theory went.

Speaker 21 Good evening, also, to Michael Dewberry, who's listening tonight.

Speaker 43 He's texting to say that he's locked and loaded.

Speaker 22 I reckon this is the Michael Dubry.

Speaker 37 Why wouldn't it?

Speaker 9 It can't be that many.

Speaker 34 It could be.

Speaker 17 It can't be that many.

Speaker 43 We should try and we need to dig into this. Has anyone got a number for Michael Dubry?

Speaker 9 Can we?

Speaker 37 That's pretty much why I'm pausing here.

Speaker 22 We should be able to do this.

Speaker 42 This is quite a mundane detail.

Speaker 45 Who do I call to find this out?

Speaker 42 Jodie Morris?

Speaker 46 I don't know. Forget his number, just say Michael.

Speaker 6 And lo and behold, via the El Loco Gnome,

Speaker 14 here is Jodi Morris talking about his goal celebration when Chelsea beat Manchester United 5-0 back in October 1999.

Speaker 48 The celebration. I've got a friend, DJ Spooney, Jonathan Joseph, and we were quite close, me, Michael Dewberry, Andy Myers, Kieran Dyer, Mil Heskey.

Speaker 48 We'd holiday together in Ayanapa and it was just something that he'd done when he was behind the DJ booth when we used to go and support him.

Speaker 9 Of course it was Ayanappa, Dave.

Speaker 40 Of course it was.

Speaker 43 Yeah, we were onto something there. Yeah, it all feels right.
And I mean, yeah, we speculated that they'd maybe just hung out in the same clubs, but it seems like they're actually best mates. Yeah.

Speaker 7 I mean, and then you throw on top the fact, Nick, that there's just, there's no one else in the world called Michael Dewberry.

Speaker 24 There's just no chance.

Speaker 32 So

Speaker 18 it all fits together very well.

Speaker 24 But the Jodi Morris clincher is a wonderful kind of coincidence, really.

Speaker 49 Of all the names I could have picked, there he was.

Speaker 9 Yeah, perfect.

Speaker 30 One thing, you said Kieran Dyer in there. For some reason, in my head, Kieran Dyer and Michael Jubry are completely different football universes.
I don't know.

Speaker 30 They probably did play at roughly the same time, but I don't associate them with

Speaker 30 them with the same era at all.

Speaker 40 They meet up in Napa.

Speaker 34 It's all fine.

Speaker 32 A surreal week for you in many respects though, Dave, because.

Speaker 38 And otherwise.

Speaker 34 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 14 On the same day, you were invited to an EFL manager's 60th birthday party this year by mistake.

Speaker 43 So I woke up this morning, Wednesday morning, and it's quite rare these days that I get an SMS text message.

Speaker 43 And it's usually bad news as well. It's usually like something, you know, like the bank or

Speaker 43 the doctors or something, isn't it?

Speaker 43 But I saw one when I put my phone up this morning when I woke up, and I noticed that it was from, I won't name him just, you know, to protect his dignity here.

Speaker 43 But a, yeah, a former EFL manager who I have had dealings with in the past. And I think he's done an all contacts send.
He sent this message.

Speaker 43 He must have sent this message to absolutely everyone in his phone book. And it says, Good morning.
It's my 60th birthday this year.

Speaker 43 So I'm having an old-fashioned party at my house and would love you to come.

Speaker 43 Disco and dance, flashing lights, dance floor, drinks, cocktails, prosecco, an old-fashioned spread, late-night barbecue, all good people, 7pm till late.

Speaker 43 Fire emoji, clown emoji, two dancing emojis, another fire emoji, champagne emoji, glasses clinking emoji, cocktail emoji.

Speaker 44 Everything you could possibly want.

Speaker 9 Sounds great, to be fair.

Speaker 43 I might just take him up on it, just turn up and see what happens.

Speaker 24 I wonder if we've got enough internet sleuths among our listenership, Nick, to work out who this manager is just on the basis of that information alone.

Speaker 43 I should probably, yeah, to take out the date.

Speaker 43 That might give it away.

Speaker 51 Yeah, edit out the date.

Speaker 31 Make it a level, make it a level eight in the guesting manager's birthdays.

Speaker 43 The thing is, he hasn't actually included his address, so if I do want to go, I'll have to reply, which then potentially blows my cover And he might rescind the invitation.

Speaker 44 Drinks, cocktails, and Prosecco.

Speaker 43 Fantastic. Yeah.

Speaker 30 This is the old-fashioned spread I liked, which in my head is just your classic, you know, baked potato with some cocktail sticks with cheese and pineapple in it. It's all that kind of thing.

Speaker 48 Yeah, hammered with sandwiches.

Speaker 14 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 51 But yeah, I mean, that was weird enough.

Speaker 53 And then

Speaker 55 in what some are calling the new Richard Keyes blog, Clive Tilsley on his sub stack the other day was talking once again about what makes good commentary.

Speaker 56 And he wrote, I once appeared on a podcast where a guest selected Jonathan Pierce's cacophonous capital radio description of an Alan Shearer goal at Euro96 as his very favourite piece of commentary.

Speaker 58 The clip ended with JP uproariously chanting Super Al, Super Al, Super Alan Shearer, a tabloid radio gem.

Speaker 34 But would you all want radio commentary to be like that?

Speaker 21 If they had asked the same person to recall the favourite sexual episode of his life, I dare say the brutally honest answer might have involved the backseat of a car or the office broom cupboard with someone they shouldn't have been with and to the very vocal accompaniment of more howls and shrieks than even Rio and Robbie can yell out.

Speaker 7 An oh my god fest.

Speaker 16 So essentially, Clive Tilsley has imagined you having sex.

Speaker 56 Because that's you, isn't it?

Speaker 43 Is it me?

Speaker 33 Yeah, it's from the third ever episode of Football Clichés, all the way back in 2020.

Speaker 55 We interviewed Clive Tilsley at Wembley for some reason.

Speaker 15 And then we started talking about football commentary and you picked out that clip as one of your favourite ever episodes.

Speaker 37 And I stand by it.

Speaker 62 It was one of your favourite ever lines of commentary.

Speaker 43 I stand by it. I think I said at the time, it was the first line of radio commentary that I could ever remember really making an impact.
And it was because it was on the Three Lions 98 edition.

Speaker 43 I think either Capital did a version themselves or whether it was on the main one. But I remember hearing it over the

Speaker 43 opening notes of Three Lions.

Speaker 43 And yeah, I think I've said more than once on this podcast that if you, you know, when push comes to shove, I think Jonathan Pierce is probably my favorite commentator of all time.

Speaker 43 With apologies to Clive and the rest of his esteemed colleagues. But I mean, the second paragraph is a bit disturbing.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 54 I mean, Nick, do you think of Dave as a backseat of the car merchant or more of an office broom cupboard ace?

Speaker 30 Can you be an ace of that kind of thing? I'm not sure.

Speaker 42 That's actually why he left the athletic listeners.

Speaker 44 But yeah, a surreal turn of events, and I don't know what was going on.

Speaker 38 Next up, more correspondence on how popes correspond with football.

Speaker 16 Mr. Internet2000 on Reddit was perusing, Nick, a list of papal names, the most common names given to popes in history.

Speaker 37 Do you know what the top two are?

Speaker 9 John and Gregory.

Speaker 61 Nice.

Speaker 28 And he goes on to say that given in 1978, the first Pope John Paul chose the name John Paul to honor his two immediate predecessors, it's not impossible that there could be a Pope John Gregory someday.

Speaker 43 For some reason, I can sort of imagine him in the cardinal get-up.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 41 I mean, maybe it's about his time.

Speaker 24 Hopefully, though, he'll have more compassion this time when Cardinal Dwight York decides to leave the Catholic Church.

Speaker 34 Pope John Gregory, that'll be the ultimate footballers' names and things.

Speaker 37 Well,

Speaker 42 right, belatedly, it's time to adjudication panel.

Speaker 15 This first one comes from Luke Martin.

Speaker 32 It's from BBC Radio 5 Live at the weekend.

Speaker 7 To Cardiff and Molly.

Speaker 65 Cardiff won, Oxford one. It ends.
A Yusuf Salek header for the opener and then a goal the hosts could do nothing about. Oxford captain Cameron Brannigan launched it into the top corner from 35 yards.

Speaker 64 Luke Martin asks, Nick, it's an interesting use of launched here.

Speaker 23 I think I've only ever heard of it used for crosses or clearances.

Speaker 32 I can't see why it's not a regular adjective for shooting when I think about it.

Speaker 36 Does it work?

Speaker 7 There's no reason why launch shouldn't work for a shot, should it?

Speaker 30 No, perfectly happy with that. I mean, I suppose the objection would be that launch implies a lot of verticality.
Verticality, there you go.

Speaker 63 Yeah.

Speaker 30 But it's still, as long as it's a... If it's one of those shots that just kind of rises all the time, then

Speaker 30 there's nothing wrong with it on that level. But yeah, I don't think there's a problem with it at all.

Speaker 43 Surely it's the sort of natural extension of a rocket.

Speaker 40 Yeah.

Speaker 43 What do you do with rockets? You launch them.

Speaker 66 A howitzer. An exercise.

Speaker 43 Have you seen the goal in question? I haven't.

Speaker 28 It is a rocket it's a proper rising top corner from 35 yards still rising as it goes in i mean there's a mundane explanation for this nick is you know that you know it's sheer force of usage over the years has has made launched a kind of crossing and also kind of you know hail mary style situation get it launched and there's a implication of aimlessness about it but launching in its traditional sense rockets of any kind space or missiles um they require an element of precision, right?

Speaker 9 Well, ideally, yeah.

Speaker 30 Targeting. Yeah, it's a bit of a pejorative, really, when used in any other context apart from shooting.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I mean, you claim launching.

Speaker 43 Yeah, if you were launching a podcast,

Speaker 43 you'd put some thought into it. Wouldn't you, I'll just launch it.

Speaker 43 Just get it out tomorrow, just launch it.

Speaker 30 There are a lot of podcasts out there. It doesn't seem like there's much thought gone into some of them, you know.

Speaker 42 Indeed.

Speaker 17 Yeah, but I guess you need something a little bit more aggressive for shots generally.

Speaker 29 It's like unleashed, for example.

Speaker 40 You know, things like Let's Fly.

Speaker 15 Let's fly is essentially launched, though, isn't it?

Speaker 36 So, yeah, let's fly.

Speaker 17 Let's fly is weird, isn't it?

Speaker 25 Let's get launched in front of Let's Fly from now on in the pecking order.

Speaker 41 Dave, now, question for you.

Speaker 14 If I give you the vaguely footballing phrase, turning back the clock slash rolling back the years, what's the classic scenario for this?

Speaker 43 Could it be, to use a contemporary example, Kevin De Bruyne putting in an excellent performance just days after announcing he was going to leave Man City, heralding the end of his Premier League career.

Speaker 31 It'd be a smashing rolling back the years.

Speaker 38 You want to go back a good four or five to that player's pomp, and then they suddenly produce a performance worthy of that era.

Speaker 60 A very established

Speaker 50 sporting thing, but this headline from Rum247, Nick, was sent to us and it says, British legend Paula Radcliffe turns back the clock as she tops her age category in the Boston Marathon.

Speaker 68 I mean, that defeats the point of turning back the clock if it's your age category, isn't it?

Speaker 44 You just seem to to be performing the same as you are already.

Speaker 30 Yeah, I guess so. Although, maybe if she clocked a particularly good time, like a time

Speaker 30 that was somewhere near to, you know, her

Speaker 30 from her pump.

Speaker 56 I don't think she was. That's the whole point.

Speaker 43 Well, rolling back the years feels a little bit more appropriate than turning back the clock. Because the clock is very specifically tied to your sort of age, isn't it?

Speaker 17 But if she put in a...

Speaker 43 And I don't know if she's been running consistently since she retired as an elite level runner or not. But if she hadn't been and she's turned up and tops her age category in the Boston Marathon, then

Speaker 43 I think that's a rolling back the years, isn't it? I mean, that begs the question, did she roll back the years in any other way

Speaker 9 on the marathon? For God's sake.

Speaker 7 Dave, come on.

Speaker 24 Well, it's very accepting of you in this case.

Speaker 17 All right, let's move on then.

Speaker 58 Listen.

Speaker 55 Fair play to the podcast advertising algorithm here.

Speaker 34 This came from Marne Season on Reddit from Tuesday's episode.

Speaker 39 episode.

Speaker 19 I mean, this does beg the extended debate of who is Tesco and who's Sainsbury's. Save that for another day.

Speaker 46 That's for the Reddit, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 22 Yeah, fine.

Speaker 27 Right, we'll be back with part three very shortly, and it's another great keys and grey, by the way.

Speaker 65 Rollbacks back at Asda.

Speaker 69 Stock up for the Easter holidays with thousands of prices. Roll back across the store and online.

Speaker 9 Wow. All right, Black Mirror, what's going on?

Speaker 43 I mean, I think that's a genuine, well, coincidence, but actually, it does tie into what we were talking about.

Speaker 43 You know, I mentioned as they are purposefully going on a bit of a charm offensive at the moment, they are rolling back the years, as we discussed.

Speaker 42 Yeah, yeah, that actually works in so many ways for them.

Speaker 21 This is great. But yeah, we had no hand in that.

Speaker 25 That was pure algorithm there.

Speaker 50 Anyway, as hinted at on that episode, Nick, Discovered Unknown on Reddit has taken it upon themselves to put together the definitive if supermarkets were football clubs rundown.

Speaker 52 I think this is more or less spot on.

Speaker 15 Different tastes may well disagree.

Speaker 14 Asda Everton, a consistent player in years gone by, but dogged by ownership news in recent years, seems to have lost its way as what made them great.

Speaker 62 Feeling all right about that one?

Speaker 30 Yeah, maybe if they built a few new kind of shiny stores.

Speaker 43 Yeah, a new super store.

Speaker 30 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 43 Get them back to their former glories. And as I mentioned the other day, the American takeover thing works nicely as well with Asda and Everton.

Speaker 55 Okay, we're going super literal with this, which is fine.

Speaker 45 Tesco Manchester United, Dave, absolute goliath through the 1990s and early 2000s, dominated the game like no other.

Speaker 15 Lost market share to other players since, but remains the biggest player in the game.

Speaker 56 Deemed too big to fail, and although United's performance is struggling, still deemed a huge club, and one day will no doubt get back to the top.

Speaker 43 Yeah, you know what? I could picture Gary Neville walking around a Tesco going, This is Tesco here, this is Tesco supermarket we're talking about here at this moment in time.

Speaker 49 At this moment moment in time.

Speaker 15 As we already decreed on the pod the other day, Nick, Aldi is Brighton, trendy, German influence, gets things done on a budget without sacrificing quality, gives the big guys a bloody nose and punches well above their weight.

Speaker 25 Meanwhile, Liddle, Brentford, the light version of Aldi, never too far away from them.

Speaker 32 Aldi takes all the limelight, but I'll tell you something, don't forget about Liddle, because that German discount supermarket doesn't get the praise it deserves sometimes.

Speaker 34 It's a great pairing. This has to be.

Speaker 30 Absolutely spot on. Can't pick holes in that at all.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 38 it's like money ball for supermarkets.

Speaker 24 They've perfected the system, haven't they, Dave?

Speaker 43 Do we know whether their chief executives get on or not?

Speaker 37 Speaking of which,

Speaker 67 the

Speaker 14 brains behind Asda's potential resurgence, Alan Layton, was apparently the deputy chairman of Leeds back

Speaker 23 in the early 2000s, sort of late 90s, early 2000s.

Speaker 17 The real salad days.

Speaker 14 The live the dream era.

Speaker 37 Yeah, exactly. So

Speaker 21 be careful what you wish for, Asda.

Speaker 16 Let's move on.

Speaker 15 Sainsbury's Aston Villa says Discovered Unknown, a premium supermarket without the snobby attitude, rich history and always being up there.

Speaker 15 Just a few good decisions away from being the supermarket on everyone's lips.

Speaker 24 I like this, Nick, because there's a grand history to both of those institutions.

Speaker 30 Yeah, I seem to remember Sainsbury's also had a kind of

Speaker 30 bit of a crisis, you know, a few years ago, which may coincide with Villa getting relegated.

Speaker 14 There's a charming datedness to both of them, but that doesn't count out a resurgence for either.

Speaker 43 I think Sainsbury's staffed uniforms are claret as well, aren't they?

Speaker 23 Ah, yeah, you think of them as an orangey thing, but no, there's a lot of claret involved.

Speaker 9 Okay, so it does work.

Speaker 30 Claret tabard with an orange piping.

Speaker 21 Great use of tabard.

Speaker 42 Waitrose Chelsea, Nick.

Speaker 38 Seen as the most expensive of the lot, not afraid of putting down big money on exotic produce.

Speaker 25 Expensive prices, not afraid to put their money where their mouths are.

Speaker 62 Flash, some might say cocky.

Speaker 15 seen as trendy and dominates the home counties.

Speaker 30 And often expensive, but not as quite as good as you'd expect for that kind of money as well.

Speaker 51 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 45 Yeah, I'm starting to become more of an MNS man, actually, Dave.

Speaker 15 And speaking of which, MS Food Hall Arsenal, steeped in tradition going back over 100 years, a loyal fan base who have always stayed true to them.

Speaker 24 Lost their way significantly in the mid-2000s to late 2010s, enjoying an almighty resurgence and surge in popularity.

Speaker 43 My nan used to do her weekly shopping at MNS. Right.
And she was born a stone's throw from Highbury.

Speaker 25 There you are.

Speaker 42 If you need any further evidence.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 32 Sainsbury's an Aston Villa, but just elevated, basically.

Speaker 64 Morrisons, Newcastle, Nick, always lagged behind the other Goliaths of the supermarket game.

Speaker 40 Still a player whose name has to be mentioned when you talk about your Asdas, Tesco's, and Sainsbury's.

Speaker 32 Always a case of if they can make that step up to be talked about in the same circles as them rather than riding the coattail.

Speaker 16 Great expectations with the Morrisons customers, isn't there?

Speaker 30 Riding the coattails used in terms of supermarkets is really excellent.

Speaker 43 Wouldn't be massively surprising if both Mike Ashley used to have a stake in Morrison's and the Saudis now do.

Speaker 9 Implausible.

Speaker 25 Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 24 Like, you'd be surprised to read it buried in a story somewhere that they actually own 60% of Morrison's.

Speaker 34 Like, oh, wow, fair play.

Speaker 30 And you'd hear about it from these people who go, well,

Speaker 30 you put petrol in your car, don't you? And what, you shop at Morrison's as well? Why are you complaining about Newcastle?

Speaker 68 Yep. Finally, co-op.

Speaker 66 Spurs.

Speaker 15 The poor man's waitrose, the shop you go when you have nowhere else to turn.

Speaker 34 Not terrible, but never what you're looking for.

Speaker 45 Usually when you've run out of options or time, known for overcharging on products you can get elsewhere cheaper.

Speaker 34 I don't feel strongly about this one.

Speaker 59 Not much of a co-opsman.

Speaker 43 I sort of see what you mean. I mean, they're kind of, that's kind of the last supermarket left.
What about Costco? Has anyone Costco?

Speaker 9 Never been.

Speaker 30 Buying in... Bulk.

Speaker 51 I think we've had quite enough of that, but yeah, that will be the definitive list of supermarkets of football clubs.

Speaker 40 So thank you. Discovered unknown.

Speaker 38 you've sorted us right out for the mid-week education panel.

Speaker 15 Time for footballers, names in things.

Speaker 57 It came from Matthew Bycroft.

Speaker 70 Breakfast clubs are opening this morning at more than 700 schools in England as part of a trial that will run until the end of term in July.

Speaker 70 Parents will be able to drop off their children half an hour early, though some concerns have been raised by teaching unions about the funding of the scheme.

Speaker 70 A number of schools have already trialled the clubs. Dawn Aldridge is the business manager at High Green School in Sheffield, and she says children have really enjoyed the experience.

Speaker 44 I don't care that it's Dawn Aldrich, Nick. I heard John Aldridge, and that's all that matters.

Speaker 30 Just furious with the

Speaker 44 clipboard-wielding breakfast club administrator going, get me on, get me in there.

Speaker 9 Love it.

Speaker 21 Superb.

Speaker 24 Meanwhile, Dave, we heard on Tuesday's episode about the Malaysia national team captain being named after Dion Dublin and Johan Croyff, which we found very amusing indeed.

Speaker 34 Someone wrote in on Reddit about some other Malaysian footballers.

Speaker 15 It's pretty common over here, they said.

Speaker 32 You've got Gabriel Gabriel Nistelroy Tamin at JDT FC, Gabriel Batasuta at Derling FC, and Diego Baggio Test at Kuching City.

Speaker 23 Sarawak have a player called Gyorgi Kinkladzi Tom.

Speaker 15 And to top this off, he says, I was at a Penang game recently, and one of the match officials was called Mark Haitley Alep.

Speaker 34 What's going on? Mark Haitley.

Speaker 30 I would ideally like a referee to be named after another referee, like Paul Burkin or something.

Speaker 54 That sort of era.

Speaker 34 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Was it Roger? Roger Gifford or something like that?

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 34 Yeah. Mark Haitley.

Speaker 24 What a legacy to leave.

Speaker 43 I was just late to see whether Mark Haitley

Speaker 43 had a spell in Malaysia towards the end of his career, but nowhere near it.

Speaker 40 But yeah, no, I checked this out.

Speaker 24 Most recently,

Speaker 40 presiding over a youth game in Malaysia. So, wow.

Speaker 25 I mean, what a name.

Speaker 36 Speaking of foreign names being corrupted for entertaining usage, a piece in the Eye by Sam Cunningham about speculating, Nick, that Reuben Amarim would be facing the sack at Magis United if he was British.

Speaker 14 Roy Hodgson, David Moyes and Graham Potter were all judged far more harshly than the Portuguese.

Speaker 44 It contained the inevitable passage that says, it feels as if Reuben Amarim was called Robbie Arnold and had been born in Dudley, there would be an entirely different conversation.

Speaker 43 But he would never would have got the job. By the laws of this convention, he never would have got the job in the first place.

Speaker 30 Like quantum leap, you're just in there i'm not having robbie arnold was it as a as a kind of equivalent of reuben amarin surely reuben this is fine

Speaker 44 reuben arnold robert arnold robbie arnold robbie arnold probably would mean getting a job in the efl i don't think but yeah some shade thrown at dudley as well isn't that sam allardyce's neck of the woods dudley yeah um so yeah maybe that's but yeah just just Great to see these just constantly being fielded.

Speaker 38 It is wonderful.

Speaker 50 Now, next up, Middlesbrough fan alex went to watch his team's 2-1 defeat at sheffer wednesday on monday his misery compounded in some senses by opening the match program nick and there's a what i would assume is a um ongoing column from former Sheffield Wednesday player Mel Sterland.

Speaker 15 And it's a two-page spread. First of which is dedicated to Mohamed Salah signing a new contract at Liverpool and what that means for the rest of the Premier League.

Speaker 28 Like watch out the Premier League.

Speaker 15 And the other bit was

Speaker 24 about the return of free kick specialists, specifically Declan Rice and his double against Real Madrid.

Speaker 42 And Alex says this is just totally unacceptable to have software general appeal column in a match day programme.

Speaker 30 Is this a... Do we know for

Speaker 30 anyone tell us if this is a common thing where they he always kind of discusses events of the day rather than you know something related to that particular club?

Speaker 25 I mean there's some journalistic integrity to sort of spreading your spreading your content wings, isn't there, Dave?

Speaker 40 But just not in a match day programme.

Speaker 61 Stick to current affairs for your own club I think.

Speaker 34 I don't know.

Speaker 43 I mean you know you've got a fair old number of pages to fill on a match day programme.

Speaker 43 Obviously, these days, they are increasingly antiquated, but if you're flicking through it, I think a couple of pages of general topical stuff isn't bad. You're a noted columnist yourself, Nick.

Speaker 45 You could get in a match day.

Speaker 43 I reckon you could get in a match day programme.

Speaker 30 Oh, I've tried. Don't worry about that.

Speaker 30 My freelance days are that's quite a few of them.

Speaker 34 Not haven't it?

Speaker 24 And now I realise I once had a um a cliches-related piece in the Love Red Dynamo programme.

Speaker 62 So I'm talking out my ass.

Speaker 9 Hey, don't start sounding. I'm going to

Speaker 32 There wasn't a single word about Love for a Dynamo in that piece, so no, I'm all for it.

Speaker 59 But yeah, I mean, I know, clickbait, Match Day Program content.

Speaker 34 That's what we're after.

Speaker 28 Transfer rumors next.

Speaker 15 Right, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN.

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Speaker 50 It can be handy for all sorts of things as indeed it was to rich stevens who was listening to connor mcnamara going all snooker on the world feed commentary for leicester versus liverpool this is very odd

Speaker 71 concentration here opportunity and it was simicas and her mansion pushes it away for the corner again Nick, I've never ever heard it speculated that the players need quiet to concentrate on what's going on.

Speaker 30 The knowledgeable King Pound Stadium crowd. Yeah, that is really weird.

Speaker 30 Like Dominic Sobersley or something is going to stop in the middle of the pitch and go, can you just the commentary box? Hey, can you just keep, you know.

Speaker 31 The referee telling them to pipe down, please. Yeah.

Speaker 30 Yeah, someone's phone goes off. And they're, come on,

Speaker 43 why is a hush descending over the stadium?

Speaker 63 And was it, actually?

Speaker 41 I mean, he picked up on something.

Speaker 39 And that's how we rationalised it.

Speaker 43 Was it just like a long spell of possession for Liverpool?

Speaker 31 I didn't, but it's got an ominous lull of like, you were about to concede I guess I don't know but um maybe maybe sort of snooker can you imagine kind of a snooker kind of dynamic appearing in football crowds from now on sort of hush you know quiet hush and then someone slides a through ball through and everyone sort of applauds like knowingly going yeah love that could work not good for English football atmospheres I tell you what though Nick I'm eagerly awaiting Fletch and Ali McCoy's snooker commentary this week on TNT can you imagine McCoy's eager whispering as a as a frame hots up he kind of would be on the verge of not being able to contain himself all the time.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 30 But he's got enough respect for the game to

Speaker 30 keep it quiet. I mean, I suppose Virgo occasionally

Speaker 30 will do the kind of, you know, we'll get a little bit excited.

Speaker 34 Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 28 Virgo's not a million miles away from McCoyst.

Speaker 40 Yeah. In many respects.

Speaker 41 But is he going to have to sort of rein himself in, Dave, sort of in every sense? Was McCoyston.

Speaker 9 Was he...

Speaker 40 with John Parrott on question of sport?

Speaker 50 Were they the same era?

Speaker 9 Of course he was, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 43 I bet Ali knows a thing or two about a couple of frames of snooker.

Speaker 40 Yeah, Fletcher's a multi-sportsman as well. He's done boxing, he's done the

Speaker 43 NFL.

Speaker 24 What's the thing where people build cars out of boxes and they go downhill?

Speaker 2 Oh, like the Red Ball.

Speaker 39 Yeah, he does that. The Red Carb.

Speaker 51 Yeah. Derby.

Speaker 41 Every time I hear it, I think, is that Fletch? It's not quite Fletchy enough, but it actually is.

Speaker 35 There we are.

Speaker 28 If you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to Nordvpn.com/slash cliches, and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan.

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Speaker 15 There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee, and the link is also in the podcast description if you need it.

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Speaker 73 This episode is brought to you by McAfee.

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Speaker 42 Welcome back to Football Clichés.

Speaker 15 This is the Midweek Adjudication Panel.

Speaker 18 Let's pick things up with Mark Lightfoot, who was listening to 606 on Sunday.

Speaker 24 Now, Nick, we don't tend to go near football phone-ins on this podcast, but I think an exception was worth making here as a furious Manchester United fan calls into Robbie Savage and Chris Sutton.

Speaker 27 Right, let's go to Mason, who's a Manchester United fan. How are you, Mason?

Speaker 26 Yeah, not very good, mate.

Speaker 74 So I want to ask him a question. Jim, are you excited about what you are seeing, about what you've produced at the club? Are you excited? Are you entertained?

Speaker 75 Well, I mean, if I just pretend to be Jim at this moment in time,

Speaker 75 Mason, no, I'm not excited. No, I'm not entertained.
But this is

Speaker 75 a long-term plan, Mason.

Speaker 75 No, I'm not terminal planning plan. You need a bit of patience, Mason.
I'm doing my best.

Speaker 74 I speak.

Speaker 74 I'm tired of that. It's a long-term plan.
Oh, we're going to get Ashworth in. We've got a long-term plan.
What happened with Ashworth?

Speaker 75 Yeah, he was surplus to requirements. I made a quick call on him.

Speaker 9 What do you mean he was surplus to requirements?

Speaker 26 They banged on.

Speaker 74 They had caused issues with Newcastle for months on end as if Ashworth was a Messiah. What do you mean he was surplus to requirements?

Speaker 75 Well, he didn't quite fit in as we would have liked, so we moved him out.

Speaker 26 The actual plan was based around him. So you're telling me they didn't know what they were doing then?

Speaker 26 Are you telling me then Ratcliffe has no clue what he's doing day by day? One minute, Ashworth's the guy, and the next day he's not.

Speaker 75 Just to be clear, Mason, I'm not Jim Ratcliffe.

Speaker 9 Okay, I was just a little bit.

Speaker 26 No, but you just said he's surplus to requirements.

Speaker 75 Yeah, but that

Speaker 27 he was pretending to be to Jim.

Speaker 43 the point being mason mason the the the point i i understand your frustration wow that role-playing sort of thing was never gonna go well was it no a bit of a risk uh there but fair play to Sutton for taking it on but it did somewhat unravel didn't you Robbie Robbie Savage just clarifying it for sure right at the end Nick was a lovely touch I thought Just in case you joined us midway through this conversation, this is not Jim Ratcliffe.

Speaker 30 I I quite like the idea that even the remote possibility that Ryan did think, oh, they've got Jim on. All right, great.
I'm going to address my complaints to him.

Speaker 17 Chris Sutton has Devil's Advocate written all over him, but I think that was a step too far.

Speaker 38 Yes, that's the one and only 606 clip we'll have this year.

Speaker 32 Next up, Tom Dunn, who was listening to Jonathan Pierce on match of the day 2 duty for Fulham versus Chelsea on Sunday.

Speaker 76 Seem to catch the Fulham player in an offside position as a very, very late flag, if that's the case.

Speaker 76 we do have the semi-automated

Speaker 76 offside technique here the semi-automated technology doesn't come in at Ferrari pace by the way does it more like Morris Minor pace with all due respect to Morris Minor as I had one

Speaker 7 now in many respects this is pure Jonathan Pierce in his in his current iteration Nick but I am starting to think that you could piece together a whole Jonathan Pierce autobiography from old commentary clips like he's letting a little bit sort of slip every sort of couple of months about his past and his childhood and stuff That just, I don't know what chapter we're up to now.

Speaker 43 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 30 I think I'm sure I've definitely mentioned this on the podcast before, but the thing that always sticks in my mind is he during the Women's World Cup in 2015, I think it was, went on an extended riff about the price of wet wipes in Canada.

Speaker 30 I mean, it's got to be a small detail in there, isn't it?

Speaker 62 That's a whole chapter, definitely.

Speaker 14 Yeah, we've heard about sort of childhood with like school teachers, Dave, I'm sure we've heard before about how he did in his GCSEs.

Speaker 32 So we're probably up to his kind of for late adolescence now.

Speaker 34 Yeah. 17.
Yeah.

Speaker 31 My first car is pure autobiography fodder, isn't it?

Speaker 35 So yeah,

Speaker 34 I would read it.

Speaker 44 I'm fascinated by his journey.

Speaker 43 All those miles he clocked up in the Morris Minor during his days as a young and up-and-coming commentator and reporter.

Speaker 30 You wouldn't catch him speculating on the sex life of potential colleagues, would you?

Speaker 49 No, no, not going to see him on Substack anytime soon.

Speaker 23 Now, next up, Finn Maunder writes in, very impressive intro here.

Speaker 20 Over the last 18 months, I've worked in the health system of a small town high in the Peruvian Andes.

Speaker 9 And I regularly go out running in the mornings to stay fit.

Speaker 24 Runners are an uncommon sight on these mountain roads, and the drivers often link to honk in what I assume is support.

Speaker 41 But they honk in the same way as the England band tries to get a chant going during an unconvincing 2-1 home victory over Slovenia.

Speaker 67 Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, England.

Speaker 34 Right? However...

Speaker 61 There's one crucial difference.

Speaker 47 In Peru, they just do the first bit.

Speaker 67 The beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, repeated ad infinitum.

Speaker 41 No ending, no satisfying denouement of the last two bars of the rhythm.

Speaker 15 The lack of resolution in the honking leaves me profoundly discomforted. I feel like I'm being encouraged, but that the encouragers aren't sure whether they should be doing it.

Speaker 66 I suppose it's better than the long and aggressive honk, but this unresolved honk weighs far more on me than it should.

Speaker 45 Am I out of my lane here?

Speaker 6 I mean,

Speaker 21 that would rattle you if you were, you know, English-bred.

Speaker 43 It might be, yeah, the first time you heard it, you'd be expecting to that full stop, wouldn't you? But I think it's still preferable to cars slowly creeping up behind you with the Great Escape.

Speaker 43 Beeping up the Great Escape, just as you trudge up the Peruvian Andes, hanging over the edge of the cliff.

Speaker 21 Oh my goodness, I didn't think of that. It's a very good shout.

Speaker 45 But finally, Nick, this is a use for one of my old football videos, one of my treasured old VHS tapes.

Speaker 4 It's the Smiths Crisp's Greatest Moments of World Soccer from 1990, which I watched many, many times.

Speaker 25 It's presented by a very wooden Brian Robson with the voiceover from Jim Rosenthal.

Speaker 49 And I was suddenly reminded of this as I heard about this conundrum of the whistle.

Speaker 77 Socrates bursts through Italy's defence and shoots through goalkeeper Zoph's legs.

Speaker 77 Now it's Brazil's turn to celebrate, as only they and their fans know how.

Speaker 24 So, there you go. It's a South American thing.
They just don't do the last bit.

Speaker 15 And that's how it's always been.

Speaker 25 Whether that does match or not, the origin of the football rhythm suddenly preoccupied me in the lead-up to this recording.

Speaker 50 And it turns out that

Speaker 13 is from 1962's Let's Go by the Reuters.

Speaker 9 Wow.

Speaker 40 That's where it was invented.

Speaker 43 That Yeah, that makes sense. Sort of early 60s.
I think there are quite a lot of those now traditional chants that originated from sort of 50s and 60s kind of music.

Speaker 40 Don't get royalties for that though, do you?

Speaker 56 I guess.

Speaker 47 Right, next up, Joe Barrow was listening to Talk Sport as Perry Groves watches the Chelsea celebrations after their late winner against Fulham.

Speaker 78 The full-time whistle was blown, Perry Groves, and Chelsea players celebrating that almost like they had won a cup final. But there is real significance to that second half display.

Speaker 79 Yeah, you thought they'd won the FA Cup semi-final, wouldn't you, Natalie, to be fair?

Speaker 79 Because, say, the way they celebrate, some of the players went on the floor, they were lying like fully prone, then the other players went over to the Chelsea fans over on the left-hand corner of Craven Cottage to celebrate with them.

Speaker 32 Dave, this is a fascinatingly specific addition to the Celebrating Like They've Just genre.

Speaker 33 Celebrate Like You've won an FA Cup semi-final, which, as we know, is a momentous occasion winning a semi-final.

Speaker 24 Like, it's, you know, some think it's better than a final in terms of its magnitude as a spectacle.

Speaker 9 Has he nailed the sort of comparison here?

Speaker 43 I agree. I think back to 2019 when Watford got to the FA Cup final, obviously

Speaker 43 means maybe a little bit more to a smaller club. But in some ways, I think the semi-finals, because you've got it all ahead of you.

Speaker 9 You've achieved

Speaker 9 Wembley.

Speaker 43 You know, the England semifinals that we've been in recently, you know, when we've won them in the Euros, yes, okay, we're yet to experience what it would be like to win the final, and that would be a whole nother stratosphere of celebrations.

Speaker 43 But but it would be a full stop on something. It'd be completing something, but getting yourself to that position where you could win it, I think there's something special about that.

Speaker 40 Yeah, I quite like this from Perry Groves, Nick.

Speaker 29 I mean, it's good to get specific with this.

Speaker 39 We've all got football brains. We can always tally this stuff with something,

Speaker 15 unless it was done by mistake. I really like it.

Speaker 30 Is there an element that it was slightly passive-aggressive by

Speaker 30 the presenter said finally? He quietly downgraded it from final to semi-final.

Speaker 9 That adds to it.

Speaker 37 No, more like a semi-final to me.

Speaker 24 So, I mean, so yeah, so players running off in different directions, but not

Speaker 32 in a sort of we've won the trophy kind of way.

Speaker 24 And then there were some players who collapsed to the floor because they were just knackered and they'd done it at the last minute.

Speaker 62 So that's a little bit semi-finally, but you don't want to make it too finally.

Speaker 41 You don't want to make it too like we've got it, we've done it.

Speaker 43 No confetti, but it's but it is a release.

Speaker 34 Yeah.

Speaker 23 No dancing up and down singing Champione.

Speaker 49 They didn't do that, as far as I understand.

Speaker 7 Lovely bit of crowd noise for you next.

Speaker 31 This came from Sam Grindley, and he claims you'll never hear a better oh yoshit ah, leading straight to a goal at the other end than this during Charlton's home game against Northampton last week.

Speaker 62 The football flows perfectly, Dave, and the sound follows suit.

Speaker 66 suit. I mean,

Speaker 24 the Yoshit Ah tails off just as Chucksuniki flicks on the long punt, up thrill from Will Mannion.

Speaker 15 And then Matty Godden latches onto it, and that's when the home crowd take over.

Speaker 41 And

Speaker 13 you can't see the joins.

Speaker 43 Is it upfield or downfield? No.

Speaker 50 It is perfect.

Speaker 43 Yeah, because I think there's still some lingering ah. Just as the striker gets through, shoots.
I mean, I think this is second touch or whatever. Shoots, puts it past the goalkeeper.

Speaker 63 It's perfect.

Speaker 43 And what's interesting as well is this is perhaps the lesser spotted or maybe more increasingly common

Speaker 43 your shit airing of a goalkeeper who's got the ball in his hands and has rolled it out to kick it. It's not a goal kick, this.

Speaker 34 Yeah, and that's kind of fine.

Speaker 15 I mean, you still get that kind of pause to build it up, Nick.

Speaker 59 So it's a technicality I'm comfortable with.

Speaker 30 Yeah, it's absolutely fine. I think that just going back to the sounds of it, it's perfect because

Speaker 30 it's like someone's mixing in the two things together.

Speaker 30 Like a DJ or something.

Speaker 41 There's just enough there's a little bit of overlap there's just enough so it never goes quiet but there's not so much that it kind of bleeds in distractingly the ah has come to a natural conclusion as well so it's not like the the the chance of scoring the goal has interrupted that no exactly exactly there's nothing abrupt about it it's just as the flick on is made and and then and then it immediately becomes obvious that it's a goal scoring opportunity so they fade out and the home code comes in and i'm very grateful day for the microphones being near the away fans to level it up so that it's an even it's an even playing field audially yeah yeah really really nice um but we should also remember that whilst it might look you know if you if you consider the whole scenario nick it might look like an egg on face premature hubris kind of situation i feel like we should we should we should reiterate that your shit are exists outside of that kind of dynamic it's it's self-contained like it's never an it can never be looked at in hindsight as a pride before fall situation it's just something that happens you call the other goalkeeper shit and it doesn't matter what happens after that.

Speaker 51 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 30 You're getting into the whole realm of you don't take football chance literally seriously.

Speaker 33 Yeah, a pre-assist for Will Mannion.

Speaker 43 If this was a game taking place in the north of the country, with the addition of the you ship bastard ah, would that have taken us slightly too close to the...

Speaker 15 If the bastard had coincided with the flick-on, that would have been incredible.

Speaker 34 I think it would have done.

Speaker 25 Yeah, oh, well, yeah.

Speaker 51 I'm about to

Speaker 51 play around with the audio on that one.

Speaker 56 But yeah, just tremendous stuff.

Speaker 34 Right.

Speaker 55 Finally, a question from Unnamed Poster93, Nick.

Speaker 38 Rightly staying anonymous for this.

Speaker 15 Who is the most hands over the head clapping the fans after a game manager in the prem, past or present?

Speaker 49 Cannot personally see anybody else other than Gary O'Neill, they say.

Speaker 42 Strange choice.

Speaker 44 Doesn't feel like the definitive option here at all.

Speaker 30 That's quite good.

Speaker 34 Yeah, I think Gary O'Neill, I can...

Speaker 43 I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of others will come to mind, but Gary O'Neill, he had that little spell where, you know, both at Bournemouth and at Wolves, it always

Speaker 43 often felt like he was really making a point that I am actually good enough. Yeah, we've won.
And yes, you know, he really wanted to make it known that it was him.

Speaker 40 Yeah, it's part of the earnest armoury of a manager like that.

Speaker 36 A little bit.

Speaker 43 Franisheroy did it as well, didn't he? When he had that little spell at Man United.

Speaker 36 I mean, it's a common piece of managerial body language, no question, Nick.

Speaker 17 But who did it best?

Speaker 14 I've got Daishi my head, I have to say, a very aggressive above-head clapper.

Speaker 30 Daishi, but he doesn't.

Speaker 30 In my head, he's striding purposely off the pitch while doing it.

Speaker 68 Yeah, the turfmoor tunnel is so far away from the dugouts that he

Speaker 56 yeah it's just it lends itself more to it.

Speaker 31 Yeah, sort of angling his look away to the fans as he goes.

Speaker 32 Yes.

Speaker 23 Lampard's quite above head clappy.

Speaker 32 That comes from his playing days, I guess.

Speaker 40 So that's just muscle memory.

Speaker 43 Does feel like more of a young man's thing, doesn't it?

Speaker 43 I don't think Roy Hodgson's getting the arms up that high, is he?

Speaker 44 Again, you're going very literal with this and his actual physiology of Roy Hodson.

Speaker 42 But I have to say he is the first old manager I could think of.

Speaker 15 And I thought, can I imagine him doing it?

Speaker 25 No, not really.

Speaker 62 He's more of a chest, chest-level clapper.

Speaker 37 Yeah.

Speaker 15 In fact, I don't think he would frown upon the clapping at the crowd at all.

Speaker 32 I think it might just be a little wave and a nod, and then off he goes.

Speaker 49 So, I don't know.

Speaker 35 We've answered it in some ways.

Speaker 49 Thanks to you, Nick.

Speaker 2 You can give yourself a clap above the head if you like.

Speaker 30 Thank you very much.

Speaker 54 Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Speaker 32 Despite the lurid allegations about your private life.

Speaker 43 Hey, look, we don't know for sure that he was talking about me.

Speaker 34 Okay, so okay.

Speaker 49 He didn't name the podcast specifically. Yeah.
And thanks to everyone for listening.

Speaker 7 We'll be back on Tuesday. See you then.

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