The Champions League group stage concludes with 64-goal special: Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, the final group games of the Champions League, all of the football, all at the same time.

The final 18 matches produced 64 goals.

We will describe every single one of them.

Manchester City did the decent thing and give us some jeopardy before getting the job done over Club Bruges to secure a play-off place.

Aston Villa go through automatically with a narrow win over Celtic.

But will they have any strikers by the time the knockout stages commence?

Will they need any with Morgan Rogers getting a hat-trick?

And has anyone checked on Ali McCoyce?

Elsewhere, Liverpool finished top despite defeat to PSV, while Arsenal finished with a comeback victory over Girona.

Real Madrid find form just in time to lure us into a full sense of security before inevitably winning the trophy.

We'll pick out the best bits from the night's action, issue an apology to the natural wine truthers, have your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, good morning, Barry Glendeding.

Hello, Robin.

Lars Ibertson.

Hello.

And Mark Landon, thank you so much for joining us after your swanky do at the Gherkin.

Hi, Robin.

You okay?

Yeah, well, more on that later.

Before we get to the football, the white smoke emerged from Guardian Towers yesterday.

We are sending all of our love and congratulations to Max and Jamie on their newborn son, Willie Rushton, named after the private eye cartoonist and regular on Through the Keyhole, a beautiful little brother for Ian.

Yeah, unfortunately, Ryan Loff's run of two goals in two has come a little too late to have his name bestowed on the newest Rushton.

Right, on the subject of sleepless nights, onto the episode that's been keeping everyone at Football Weekly on their toes it's the champions league megapod um yeah so me and producer joel were trying to watch the goal show on tnt sports um and joel rightly pointed out that it was the most pundits ever assembled like the end of the avengers he described it and i mean i was watching it my eyes actually started to hurt um i don't have tick tock i imagine that's what it's like scrolling through video after video i was just on my feet nose pressed up against the screen trying not to miss anything and i think i missed basically everything um let's start at Manchester City.

Uh, they beat Club Bruce 3-1.

I mean, ultimately, it was comfortable in terms of the score line, uh, Barry, but there was a bit of jeopardy, one-nil down at at half-time, but eventually, I guess they're well, they're a bit of a helping hand, didn't they?

But the quality told.

Yeah, I mean, what you your description of trying to watch this is quite

well, it it resonates with me because

on the face of it, it it was a very exciting evening.

It was quite overwhelming to keep on track or keep on top of everything with so much going on.

You had 18 games, 64 goals, a few red cards, penalties, great goals, terrible misses, brilliant saves, awful goalkeeping errors.

And, you know, how do you keep on top of it all?

But at the end of it all, and when the dust has settled, it turned out to be all

sorts of sound and fury, really, because

only two teams gay crashed the top eight party, Villa and Lil

going in at the expense of Milan and Atalanta.

And City were the only team in danger of not qualifying to qualify, to go from a non-qualification position into a qualification position.

But it was still all great fun.

City

probably

provided the nearest thing to a massive upset that we got in going behind Club Bruges.

But

ultimately

we're too good for them.

Bruges went into this game on the back of a twenty match unbeaten run so there were never going to be pushovers and so proved when they took the lead

on Yudika's lovely right footed finish after Matthias

Nunes had been easily beaten down the the left wing.

He was playing it right back for City.

But ultimately City were just too good for them and

they will have Real Madrid or Bayern Munich in the next round.

They'll probably beat them, they'll probably go on and win.

I'm not sure they're quite good enough, but they are starting to get their act together, aren't they?

And things changed for them in this game.

When Ilkai Gunagan came off at half-time, Savino was brought on, and he had a huge influence on the game and ultimately scored the goal that put it beyond Bruges.

Beautiful

takedown on his chest before firing past Simon Mingle who was in goal for Bruges.

So, yeah, a great win for City, and they have managed to just about avoid embarrassment.

At the moment, anyway, as you say,

they're through.

People saying they're through, but they still have this play-off.

So, we probably will lose a sort of big hitter, won't we?

Savinho has probably been the highlight of a very patchy season.

I'm interested, Lars.

Pep Guardiola said ahead of this one that he was going to approach it without emotion.

How did he get on with that, do you think?

I think the idea of Pep approaching anything without emotion is silly.

Like, I don't think he can do the big shop without emotion.

And fellas

doing the big shop can get emotional.

The question is, I don't even think he can do a small shop.

I think just going around the corner shop to get a few bits for breakfast, I think even doing that, Pep would get very emotional.

Can you imagine him in the...

The middle aisle of Liddle.

He would lose his emotional.

But everyone gets emotional there.

I feel like that is...

It's more a case of like, can you pick up some bread and something for the for the morning?

And I was like, I don't think he can do that.

I think he'd got really annoyed at the ineffective layout of the off-license or something.

I feel like

the point is, he did seem a bit emotional.

And

there was.

This was the game

where stuff was going on, right?

This is the one I was drawn to as Barry said, okay, Astenville and Lil kind of went up a tier, but that just didn't feel super significant, I guess, unless you're fans of that club.

I think overall, this sort of crazy decision day with all these games, it reminded me of the BBFC, the sort of British Border Film classification, who sort of put these tags on film so that parents will know what awaits the children.

And there's one line they were very fond of for a while, which is that the film contains mild peril.

And I think

that the mild peril is what I felt throughout the game, really, with the exception of there was my, there was also one that I think contains moderate emotional intensity.

That was one.

There was a lot of that, a mild peril and moderate emotional intensity.

Maybe not how you market this giant decision day, but that's what I felt.

But there was a period in the city game in which Bruges just has some really good opportunities on the counter.

And City,

I don't think they're fixed yet.

Nowhere near.

During this period before Christmas, when they kept losing every game, they were creating chances in those games.

They just weren't taking them.

And they were like,

they're still, anytime they come up against the team that are capable of attacking them in any kind of way, they look so open.

And there were periods there, even though Bruges have got like a quarter of their wage bill, less than that, where they were just kind of cutting through them.

And there were just doesn't seem to be much of a midfield there.

Now, the attack is rolling again for City.

They are creating goals again.

And

probably it corresponds pretty neatly with the return of Kevin De Bruyne.

And it's probably not entirely unrelated.

But I just think, I still think if they come up against good teams, they'll be in trouble.

And they've signed players.

I mean, I'm not sure signing two young centre-halves and a very good attacker in Mamush will solve that softness, but I guess it means they might score even more goals.

So the CT have become quite an exciting team to watch, I think, for a neutral.

And maybe that will continue throughout the rest of the season.

I think that's a good point, isn't it, Mark?

Because Solis actually had a shot to wide at one all.

So yeah, they do...

give up quite a lot of chances still.

It feels like that's going to take a while to fix.

I mean, if this season at all.

I'm not sure.

Yeah, I've been quite disappointed, really, with the way that Pep hasn't tried to overthink that midfielder.

He's just sort of stuck

kind of two experienced guys in there, this time in Kovachichen and Gunduan.

We've seen De Bruyne in there, Bernardo Silva.

But he hasn't briefed Rico Lewis, but that experiment seems to have stopped.

But there's no way of them nullifying counter-attacks.

The goal they conceded was, I mean, terrible from their point of view.

To lose the ball on the edge of the attacking penalty area and then just suddenly be like three on three is just unheard of really for a Pep Guardiola team in that way.

They have signed players but they decided against buying a Rodri replacement or just finding somebody in that position.

And it's when they come up against better teams and we know they've got a better team in the playoff round by Munich or Real Madrid.

are going to love playing against that midfielder.

It can't be anything other than a fun game.

I think Nunez does give City a fair bit going forward

but as you'd expect of a midfielder playing at right back he also looks vulnerable in that position so

against Real Madrid Obvi I mean you can only see it being a really high scoring and fun match and I'm sure Arsenal are probably looking forward to playing City on at the weekend and you know just defend well against them and then you just will get opportunities.

Let's move on to Aston Villa for Celtic 2.

Barry, you had an eye on this one.

I mean, it started, you were thinking this could get ugly for Brendan Rodgers, but turned out to be obviously a defeat for Celtic, but got themselves back in it.

And I think it's been hearing him after the game, he spoke of his pride and they're into the playoffs as well.

Yeah, this was a brilliant game.

It's the only one I watched.

in its entirety.

I actually worked out if you watched every single game last night, assuming there's no added time and half-time lasts 15 minutes exactly it would take you 31 and a half hours to watch um all no that's wrong yes 31 and a half hours to watch all 18 games quite the box set

yeah

i i'll do that later

and let you know how i get on on monday but yeah this this really good game and it was

so villa went into it with uncertainty surrounding the futures of uh Ollie Watkins and John Duran, both of whom

Arsenal have put a bid in for Watkins on Monday.

Apparently, John Duran looks like he might be off to Alan Assar.

Celtic went in.

They just sold Kyogo for a hashi to Ren in Liga.

They'd no dies in Maid and Cameron Carter Vickers.

One was suspended, the other injured.

And Celtic found themselves 2-0 down within four minutes.

Two good goals from Morgan Rodgers.

Then Jacob Ramsey hit the foot of the post.

Ollie Watkins had a shot cleared off the line by Alistair Johnson.

And you're really worried for Celtic at this stage.

But they got back into it.

Adam Eda

scored two.

First one was an excellent finish, actually, after hooking in a cross that was deflected his way.

But ultimately, Villa were just a little too good for them.

1-4-2.

Interesting game for Ollie Watkins.

He scored a goal.

He

assisted Rogers for his hat-trick goal.

He had John Terry, the penalty

high and wide over the bar after his standing foot went from under him.

He had a shot cleared off the line and brought two excellent saves out of Caspar Schmeichel.

So I'm not sure.

Did he have a good game or a bad game?

Someone will have to.

I'll defer to...

And a game of someone who'd just been told that Arsenal want to buy him.

I'll defer to Thomas Tuchel who was in the stand.

He he can leave it up to him to decide whether or Ollie had a good game or not.

But it was tremendously entertaining.

And

Villa go into the top eight.

Their players were left standing around Luca Dean's mobile, huddled around it after the final whistle.

waiting for the result between Atalanta and Barças.

So they're going to the top eight, Centika get through and will face Real Madrid or or Bayern.

And hats off to both of them.

I think they've both probably overachieved.

Yeah, I mean, I think they were both happy.

I would have really liked it, because we saw a lot of those scenes, didn't we, of players huddled around their phones.

If there was like five transistor radios, all of them, that would have been nice, wouldn't it?

A bit old school.

Top eight finish feels very important for Villa, doesn't it, Mark?

Because they have struggled post Champions League and just missing out those couple of games could be quite significant for them.

Yeah, I mean, going into the game, I thought actually Morgan Rogers was one of those that maybe was feeling the pinch slightly and hadn't

been quite as impactful as what he had been earlier on in the season.

Obviously,

soon turned that form on its head with his display.

But yeah, finishing in the top eight is important because if you look at kind of who Villa have got next, it'll be one of Spalting or Club Bruges or Atalanta or Bruce Dortmund.

And, you know, there's a couple of games there that won't be easy, but it certainly

could have been tougher for Villa.

They had some difficult games early on.

You think of like the Bayer Munich match that they won, they played Juventus, that Monaco away was never going to be easy.

So I think they've done fantastically well to finish in the top eight, and the rest will do them good.

I can't believe, I hope this doesn't might come back to haunt me, but I can't believe how much they're going to potentially get for John Durant.

Lars was speaking Saudi, mate.

It's Saudi.

Yeah and they've done very well selling to Saudi.

DRB

went that way as well.

But if it's a choice of selling one of those two, I know Watkins is 29, but

I'd definitely keep Ollie Watkins of those two.

I agree, but for the vibes, I'm going to miss him.

I am a bit sad about it, actually.

And he is so young, isn't he, John Durant?

So it is a...

It's just, again, just a bit, really, but, you know, difficult.

Is getting 60 million for a 29 year old

better or worse than getting 64 and a half million for a what is it duran 21 22 they consider arsenal a rival like that's the

the thing isn't it or maybe i i just think it's also a case of ollie watkins is a player who's proved for many many years that he is a very reliable high-end premier league striker whereas john duram as exciting as he is i'm not going to do the whole thing because i did it on the other episode but it's it's what a season and a half he's been he's been good and and even now the numbers

like i said before i i would i don't trust that so if we can get a big fee for him

i mean take the money and run or maybe just wait for someone to inexplicably pay even more which seems to be happening what happened the last time i brought this up so

let's wrap up the other uk sides involved last night uh psv uh beat liverpool so liverpool lose their 100 record but they still finish top um this was another fun game last wasn't it and uh you really enjoyed bakioko's goal in particular i mean it's the old line about the defender looking like a fire engine heading for the wrong fire, except there were two of them.

There were synchronized wrong fire departures.

I mean, that was absolutely tremendous from Bakayoko, who is one of those guys.

I thought for sure someone was going to snap him up in the summer.

Very, very exciting winger.

And listen, you can't really read...

much of anything into this result because Liverpool didn't need anything and they fielded a very youthful and rotated side.

But there were some nice goals and some good vibes, I suppose.

Maybe not so.

Maybe Anishlos.

Is it a bit sad for him to lose against teams from the Dutch league now that he's moved up into the big time?

Maybe that would annoy him a little bit, but I think the more the thing about this is that he was very sensible and rested all his big guys.

And there are a few teams that didn't do that.

I was kind of surprised to see some of the lineups with like Jamal playing for Barcelona and Arsenal, even though they rotated, like Mark De Nodego played 90 minutes, which I thought was quite surprising.

But Anishlos kind of, yeah, complete complete change, just get through the game, and fine.

I enjoyed Arnest Slot's interview afterwards, actually on 5-Live.

He was like, I don't, I were through.

I don't actually know what happens next.

It's very funny.

I do.

I've got a graph in front of me.

I've come prepared.

Forward it to Arnest Slot.

He clearly needs it.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Maybe I should just do that.

Yeah.

Amaro Nalo came off.

Oh, yes, we must mention this.

The last three minutes.

Yeah, I just have this image of him in many, many years to come when he's sitting with his grandchild on his knee.

And the grandchild says, Granddad, you know, tell me about your Champions League debut.

And he said, Yes, I was 18 years old.

I came on for Liverpool in the 83rd minute, and then I was sent off four minutes later because I accidentally kicked Johan Bakiyoko in the bollocks.

And

one hopes it's onwards and upwards for Amaro after that.

Do you know what?

If that's his peak, I will take that.

That's a wonderful story.

Yeah, well mentioned, Barry, love that.

Girona won Arsenal 2.

So Arsenal already through pretty much.

Nanwheri with a great goal.

Actually, Girona took the lead, didn't they, Mark,

with a goal with Netto on his debut?

Yeah, as we say, channeling is in Robert Sanchez.

And yeah, out of his goal and actually tried to save it.

So that could have gone a bit really bad, actually.

Yeah, it was actually better for him and Arsenal that he didn't save it, which is

a strange sort of paradox for a goalkeeper.

But yeah, they were better off that he wasn't good enough to get his hands to it.

Yeah,

not a great moment for Neto.

Like Lars, I was slightly surprised

that there were a few big hitters in that Arsenal team.

They got Man City at the weekend, and I just expected a complete blanket,

you know, sort of reserve side almost.

And even sort of the players that they were bringing on, like Declan Rice.

Um,

but you know, obviously, Arteta knows more about his players than me.

Uh, it's been a good Champions League campaign for Arsenal.

The negative will be Raheem Sterling.

Um,

he took that penalty, probably wanted to get a bit of form going for himself, and um, he missed it.

But with Nweri playing as well as what he is, then you know, Sterling's going to be out of of the team anyway, I think.

In other Arsenal news, Miles, Louis Skelly's three-match ban imposed for a red card at Walls on Saturday has been overturned.

Yeah, I think we'll just leave that there.

We've had enough Arsenal chat.

That will do for part one.

In part two, we'll wade our way through some more of the Champions League action.

Just 14 games to go, everyone.

Hi Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable's the leader in the paper tablet category.

Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable Paper Pro Move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin.

So it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office, like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, Matt.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Barcelona 2, Atalanta 2.

Who wants to take this one?

I mean, again, two kind of quite fun teams at the moment.

So Barcelona finished second.

Lars, I mean, would you have them as one of the favourites?

It's difficult, isn't it?

Because actually, they haven't really been there or thereabouts in the Champions League for quite some time now.

Listen, I think

there are there aren't.

How should I put this?

I was about to say there aren't many good teams around, but that's clearly not true because good is like a relative phrase, like the ones that are the best around.

But there are very few perfect teams around Europe at the moment.

There are a few teams that you look at and think, wow, there's no way past them.

So I think Barcelona, they have some flaws.

I mean, that very high line they play can be exploited, as we saw in that completely unhinged game against Benfica.

There are ways of getting at them, to put it mildly, but they've got such an repertoire going forward.

Lamin Yamal is so good, and Rafinia is playing incredibly well this season.

And you've got, like, when you've got guys like Pedri and Frankie Deongabi pulling the strings in midfield, like, obviously, they can be pretty much anyone.

So you'd have them right up there.

They have a bit of a...

Are they like a boxer with a weak chin?

Is that a thing?

Like, it's definitely, they can't be got at, but they're going to be great fun to watch.

It is something something it's kind of funny about football is that sometimes like teams not being perfect and teams not being absolutely brilliant is much better for entertainment value because it means they're not, they're unlikely to just shut out the opposition.

I feel like Barcelona can definitely put six or seven past you, but they can also give you a few chances down the other end.

So, yeah,

a team to watch, if nothing else.

Yeah, Atalanta are also a fun team to watch, aren't they?

Giam Piero Gasperini doing an amazing job with them.

The draw wasn't enough for them to make the top eight.

They finished ninth, which must be pretty painful.

And they will be in the playoffs either sporting or club Bruges.

Await for them.

Stuttgart won PSG four.

Barry, this was the

saying, I mean, we've been saying this quite a long time.

Worryingly, PSG are starting to be slightly more likable.

Or are you not for turning?

They were really good last night.

I mean, this game...

They could have played out a Biscotti.

A draw would have sent both of them through, but PSG, we're not having any of that.

Usmane Dembele,

we've talked at great, great, tedious length about how hot and cold he can blow, but he was on it last night.

Again, I think he's been quite good in PSG's last three games, or certainly the last three I've seen.

So he scored a hat-trick in their 4-1 win.

I thought PSG looked very impressive, very, very impressive.

And they would be in my sort of

potential winners of this competition on the evidence of what I've seen in recent games.

And I would not begrudge them anymore because they're no longer the PSG of your that were always

so

comical to watch.

And they just blew Stuttgart out of the water last night.

Mark, in particular, I really enjoyed Barcola, his performance.

They've really got some quite likable young players now, haven't they?

They have, yeah, him and

he definitely the standout, i think for me i know dembele got the hat trick but barkler um the way he was the creative force really um and a real fawn in stuttgart's side and dewey as well that um plays um sort of sometimes through the middle he can play wide there's a fluidity to the team it lacks that star quality of mbappe and that headline grabbing name but maybe that's not a bad thing um given hasn't really served psg that well um in in the past and under pressure, PSG have always,

well, it feels like they've always buckled.

Maybe that's doing them a disservice, but it does feel that way.

And they were under huge pressure the last few matches of this Champions League campaign to beat City 4-2 and then to go away to Stuttgart and win that game as well.

It feels quite un-PSG-like, really.

And there was a turning point in the game when Donnaruma made a brilliant stop when it was only 1-0 and PSG went up the other end and made it two.

But yeah, I've been impressed with the way that they're finding a new way to play without kind of the star names.

They've got some tough games coming up still, I think, in the Champions League.

So in terms of winning it, this might not be their season.

But I feel like they're heading in the right direction.

Just to make sure Philippe Auclair isn't tutting in his study here, I think we should make clear that we still, or at least I still think, like a nation state buying a club and then pumping so much money into it that the entire national competition becomes irrelevance is still a bad thing for the sport and not something that should be happening.

So I'm not quite ready to like embrace PSG as a wonderful concept,

roundly speaking.

But at least the team, yeah, now is not filled with like it's not a complete mismatch of players who shouldn't be there, but they now make sense as a football team.

And they've signed one of my my favorite players in the world, Christian Clariskelia as well.

So I guess I'm suffering with a lot of cognitive dissonance when pondering PSG as an entity right now because I think they're fundamentally bad for the sport, but also they're a team I'd pay to watch right now.

So

that's how that works.

That's the sports washing happening right in front of our eyes.

Yeah,

being washed thoroughly.

They'll play Monaco or Brest in the playoffs.

So I guess a sort of French derby, if that exists at all.

Um, but I think actually, Lars, the story, Lil Six, uh, Fire Nord won in terms of French teams.

I mean, what a campaign they've had.

And because they absolutely smashed Fire Nord last night, they've made it through straighter without a playoff.

Yeah, and they're really fun.

I think this should be said about Lil as well, because they're not, again, not a lot of glamorous names that you might have heard of.

But, like, whatever I've seen, watch them play, or in this case, watched Highlight, because there were 105 games yesterday.

But, like, they're they've got a lot of like skillful guys who can do fun things.

Uh, one of the guys who really made an impact in this game was uh Osam Saroui, who is born in Norway but plays for Monaco, who's like a really skillful, tricky winger guy, low central gravity, great touch, all of this.

Uh, and they've got a few of those, so like, if you if you do end up schedules permitting watching watching Lil, like they're a good watch, and definitely one of the teams who've done better than expected in this uh this stage.

Three own goals in this game: um,

two for Trauna, and uh, yeah, Jonathan David uh scoring a brilliant goal.

He seems to be very perennially linked with other teams elsewhere.

I think his contract's up in the summer.

Could be one to watch, couldn't it?

Yeah,

a tip of the hat to Finors Guernold Traynor who

provided an assist and scored two own goals in this game.

Jonathan Davis didn't start, but he came off the bench and scored for Lille.

Julian Laurent was on match of the day

last night, and he

suggested he might be probably not good enough to go to one of the Premier League teams and then said, but he'd be ideal for Aston Villa, which I'm not sure what Aston Villa fans would make of that.

But I know what he meant.

Everyone knew what he meant, but they all ripped the piss out of him anyway.

I'll be honest, I don't see a great deal of Jonathan David, but his name seems to crop up a lot, and he looks good from know anything I've seen of him.

Real Madrid beat Brest 3-0.

Mark, they're doing it again, are they?

Are they lulling us into a false sense of security?

Yeah, if they end up with Celtic rather than Manchester City,

they'll start to fancy it.

They are playing better now than they were, kind of, I suppose, in that midway bit of the league phase where they looked in the same kind of trouble as what PSG

did.

I mean, in terms of this game, they did allow 23 shots, which again I think we spoke about Sissy didn't we not being able to control matches I feel like Real Madrid are in in the same boat really so if it does end up Real Madrid Man City it should be really fun but yeah they eventually just got too much quality for for breasts who have had a fantastic campaign themselves and you know the fact that they've they've qualified I still think is one of the stories really of this this Champions League but up against that the might of um real madrid eventually that attacking um sort of force came to the fore and rodrigo who has had some injury problems um got a couple of goals and i always feel like real madrid when rodrigo plays he just balances the side slightly better maybe than um when he's not in in the team because he does do a lot of um sort of work off the ball that maybe a couple of the other forwards um are not that interested in they've had a run of impressive performances now, Real Madrid, racking up the goal tallies and Mbappe starting to look more like himself, even though he didn't score in this game.

And it has not escaped my notice that that has coincided with Vinicius Jr.

being unavailable.

Now, Vinicius Jr.

is obviously a great player, but it remains a huge question mark about how it all fits together, how you start with Mbappe, Bellingham, AJ Lee, also Rodrigo and Vinicius Jr.

in the same team in a way that makes sense.

And I'm just not sure it does make sense.

And

yeah,

it is a thing to watch in the coming months how Carl Anchelotti figures that one out.

And because Rodrigo was really good in this game.

Rodrigo's always the one that when we're trying to do the sort of, how is this team

meant to work out?

How do you get this front line to look balanced?

Rodrigo tends to be the one who stick on the bench.

But as Mark Langdon says, they always look a bit better when he's on the pitch.

Dorman beats Shaktar 3-1.

Perhaps the highlight of this one, Barry, was the Shaktar goal.

You could just see it coming when they cut to this on the goal show and you see a team playing out, just passing it through their defence and then back to the goalkeeper, you think, oh dear, something's brewing here.

I'll be honest, I don't remember that.

I don't blame you.

My main takeout from this game was

Brussy Dortmund's Sarou Garrasi scored two

and looked a certainty to complete his hat trick with a brilliant downward header that was incredibly saved by the Shaktar goalkeeper.

His save was so good that Gurassi actually congratulated him on keeping it out.

I will finish this part with Dinamo Zagreb 2, Milan 1.

Absolutely gutting for Zagreb.

They needed to win, but also have results elsewhere go their way.

Yeah, just...

Absolutely devastating, but this is going to happen, isn't it?

With occasional teams when it's like this, when you're relying on other results.

So, yeah, win for them and for Fabio Cannavaro.

But the sporting equalizer kept them out of the playoffs.

That will do for part two.

We'll keep on going in part three.

Hi Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Juventus Nil Benfica 2.

Juventus, Mark, just, yeah, not very impressive, just generally this season.

Yeah, a very strange season under Thiago Motta.

They thoroughly deserve to lose this game, 2-0 to Benfica as well.

Drawn a lot of games in Syria.

Their football hasn't been as exciting as what I think they would have hoped it will have been.

Motta was a progressive manager at Bologna, and Bologna have felt he's absent, but in moving to Juve just hasn't worked out.

And even though they had 67% possession in this game, it was Benfica that created the chances and thoroughly deserved the win.

So yeah, strange time really for Juventus because they do some things well,

but it just

is not all coming together.

And the pressure is starting to grow on Mota as well.

Do you think they're cursed?

I mean, it could be just like one of those...

I've been watching quite a few horror films recently and a lot of them, the protagonist has done something bad in their past, and they're just being haunted by like badness, whether through their own guilty conscience or just the universe trying to rebalance some things.

I'm just going to throw that out there, and maybe for legal reasons, which I don't know.

No, we don't have to, because it's all, it's all, they're all convicted, and it's fine.

They did bad things, and maybe the gods of football are putting that right.

If only that was the case, Lars.

I mean, that would, I mean, there'd be those gods of football have been sleepy on quite a few things.

I'd say that's the only thing.

I'd say

the sleepiest gods the gods of football just forever nap time and then they occurs they just wake up and went oh that looks like something we should do something about oh

I'll go back to sleep Philippe has been trying to awaken them for quite some time

the narcoleptic gods the gods of football is what they are into Milan three Monaco nil

a hat-trick for Altara Martinez into finish fourth

Bayan three Slovan Bratislava one

Thomas Muller 56 Champions League goals.

I mean, Barry, this is in the category of are the Croatians tired yet?

He's still going.

Yeah, it's remarkable longevity, and he just seems always to be having a really great time, which,

you know,

fair play to him.

Harry Kane was on the score sheet in this one as well.

You sort of glossed over, inter there.

I'd have them down as potential winners.

I think Bayern as well are obvious candidates.

And Thomas Muller will still be playing for them in 15 years time.

Almost certainly.

A third entry into my very niche subcategory of great goals that didn't mean a lot yesterday.

The 3-1 goal for Slovan Bratislava by Marko Tolic, tremendous stuff, like really great footwork, and then just smashes it up the near corner.

I'm almost certain everyone missed that.

But if you want to cruise the internets and find, I mean, that was number three.

And there is at least one more to go if we get there.

But yeah, there were a few of those yesterday and mark i mean at 12th is a slightly underwhelming finish though isn't it it for buyer and munich yeah they paid the price and they now face the prospects of potentially facing uh man city the the defeat to final was the one that was just totally bizarre to to lose 3-0 to a team that then loses 6-1 uh the week after it the funniest thing i found about this game was that Towards the end, Bayern realized that there was a fair chance that they were going to be playing Man City.

There were definitely messages going on the pitch because at 3-0, they were desperately trying to score more goals to get them up above Brushia Dortmund in the table.

And I think that's why they got caught on the counter-attack.

And

if they do end up with City and then going out, really only got themselves to blame for some, you know, that terrible result in Rotterdam.

I know they had a lot of the ball in that game, but

Bayern shouldn't be losing 3-0 in that game.

Sporting 1, Bologna 1.

They were sporting second in the table after four games under Ruben Amarim.

But their points means they claim 23rd spot and a place in the playoffs and they're up against Atalanta or Dortmund.

Results elsewhere then.

Levikusen 2, Sparta Prague.

0 for Inverts and Nathan Teller with the goals.

Big win for Atletico 4-1 over Alby Salzburg.

Young Boys, oh, it's been a painful campaign for them.

Defeat to Red Star and Sturmgrass won Leipzig-nil.

Lars, I know you wanted to talk about another magnificent, meaningless goal.

I mean, it's the last, yeah, it's the last time I'm saying this in the episode, and I think we can all be relieved about that.

But like the third entry into the great but ultimately not super important goal,

Georga for Savena Svezda.

Just a great hit.

Like, if you're a fan of a good hit, just great job.

And as it emerges, I was reading, who is this guy?

He used to play for a team in Gabon called Missile FC.

This is a tremendous moment for

nominative determinism because that was an absolute rocket of a shot.

Unlike Netto, on the other hand, who is named Netto, very much did not stay in his Netto.

So it's been a mixed day for nominative determinism.

And I have had too much coffee this morning.

And Robin, as you alluded to, I was at a swanky do

with some sponsors last night for the Champions League.

And they had all 18 matches on TVs and during the first half of Young Boys Savina Svedz game the kind of stream on it froze after 30 odd minutes and I think I was the only person that that noticed

there wasn't many eyes on that young boys game there was a fantastic moment though right at the end where the

the the visiting goalkeeper was booked for time wasting and like it was so obvious and blatant time wasting I was just thinking like, nobody cares.

Like, who else cares about this game whether you win or lose?

But obviously,

it means a lot from a financial point of view.

But yeah, it was a lovely moment when

Goetzer, I think his name is,

just was

just determined not to kick the ball out.

He just waited to be yellow carded.

And yeah, I just wondered how many people were actually bothered by that game.

Oh, I love that the thought of you sort of pulling at someone's sleeve, going, Mister, please.

The TV is frozen.

Anything else of note, chaps, that we should talk about before we leave the Champions League behind?

I just think the mental image of Mark Langdon at a swanky during the Gherkin, everyone's kind of having free booze and nibbles and getting on a bit.

And Lango just going, hang on, hang on.

The stream for young books, Severna Svezla, has frozen.

Someone has to fix this.

It wasn't.

This is why I hold this man in such high esteem.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I'd like to think I would also have done that, but not that many other people.

So, you know,

my full credit and hats off to you, Mark Langdon.

It feels like an updated version of the if a tree falls in the forest.

Like, if the stream for young boys, Severna Svesda, freezes at a swanky corporate duo in the Gherkin, but no one notices.

Has it actually happened?

It's a philosophical connection.

Exactly how much coffee have you had, Lars?

This is this cup here.

There's also, I had this one.

This is a drink that is like coffee.

Ah, ah.

It's red can.

Not sure what's in this one.

I have a fair idea.

Just a couple of random observations that I

made note of just where AC Milan's Eunice Musa got really stupidly sent off for two daft yellows.

And Dynamo Zagreb's Luca Stokovich

shushed him after he got his second yellow and then more or less waved him to the pavilion, which is not

is frowned upon in cricket, but perfectly acceptable in football, obviously.

And

Fabian Bredlov, the Stuttgart goalkeeper, made a quite incredible save to stop a Desire Douay

shot from from going over the line after he'd connected with a Bradley Barcola cross.

Oh, yes.

I mean, how he kept that out, I just don't know.

So, yeah, there were a couple of things I noticed that haven't been mentioned so far.

And the only one for me to add to that, Lars might have had a couple of Red Balls already by the sounds of him, but the Red Bull organisation have had a terrible champions league.

Oh, yes.

Maybe RB Salzberg would have expected to, well, they certainly would have expected to have done better than have a minus 22 goal difference and only three points and finish 34th.

But I mean, Leipzig, to have three points and finish 32nd is

definitely not good enough

for them.

So yeah, a bad Champions League for the Red Ball organisation.

Jürgen Klopp will sort them out, won't he?

Well, back to the Gherkin though, because this was the hot topic of chat yesterday after you said that's where you were, Mark.

And it was asked by our brilliant producer, Joel, whether you like Gherkins.

And the answer is...

I absolutely love Gherkins.

I wasn't even sure that I didn't really sort of put them in the vegetable category.

I think it's because you can buy them in a fish and chip shop.

If you can buy it in a fish and chip shop, does it count as a vegetable?

But yeah,

I do absolutely love gherkins.

I mean,

but

you can't eat too many of them, I would say.

So it's a hard vegetable to

take in on a regular basis.

What did you think they were, if not a vegetable?

Never really thought about it to be bread.

Are we into sort of our capers a fish or not territory here with the sort of uh

yeah but like i say i i just think if if it's in if it's in a fish and chip shot um is it really a vegetable

yeah no that's a very good question um we should mention that that max said um on on the group chat yesterday that despite just having his second child this was the most significant thing that happened to him all day finding out that that mark langdon actually does like gherkins sorry sorry just to be clear there's capers are not and never have been fish i know i brought it out because we had this discussion on the pod many years ago and it was a confusing time for everyone because capers are clearly not a fish.

Lars, you've had whatever Ali McCoyst has.

And I would love some, if I'm being perfectly honest.

The knockout phase playoff draw takes place tomorrow at 11 o'clock.

Not quite as much peril as a typical draw as teams only have two possible opponents.

I'm sure they'll string it out though as long as they can, as they usually do with these things.

The first legs will take place on the 11th or 12th of February, followed by the second legs on the 18th, 19th of February.

I feel like there should be more of a break.

That's what happens when you have these group games still going on

after Christmas.

You know, I thought, oh, yeah, that's it now for a couple of months, but no, two weeks.

Well, we have absolutely whipped through that.

Well done, everyone.

So let's do a quick Premier League preview.

A few really good games.

We've got Arsenal Man City, as mentioned earlier.

Bournemouth against Liverpool.

Ipswich against Southampton,

Ipswich very much needing to win that one.

Brentford against Spurs, Mark, how are you feeling?

I think just despondent really.

I've almost given up now.

It's been a shocking season in just about every

way possible apart from the cups.

the Premier League, you know,

high hopes at the start of the season to maybe finish in the Champions League spots.

And if they're not careful, they're going to end up sort of fighting to avoid a championship spot.

Difficult game at Brentford.

They just need to get the injured players back.

I went on a rant the last time I was on about Daniel Levy, so I won't go back to that one.

But

the club have neither backed nor sacked Posta Koglu this month.

He's been calling for players.

They desperately need reinforcements.

And until they get them, they just look so vulnerable.

They've got a lot of injured players.

And then the ones that have been playing every week are now absolutely knackered.

And they're starting to pick up injuries as well.

So yeah, it goes from bad to worse.

I

heard somewhere the other day, the Premier League could have seven teams in the Champions League next season.

So you could have your top four, and then if they get a fifth qualification place through the coefficient, there's five.

Then there's scenarios where if

Spurs or Man United win the Europa League, that's another one.

And if Villa were to win the Champions League, they would also be in.

That's assuming City finish in the top four, which they may not, or top five, which they may not do.

So, yeah, there could be seven Premier League teams in the Champions League next season, which would mean there'd be half the Premier League would be playing in Europe, and

Sundays would be a very busy day for Premier League football all next season.

Lars, we mentioned Arsenal City.

Yeah, it's kind of two teams that you're not really sure what you're going to get.

I mean, both clearly have big qualities.

I mean, Arsenal might be favourites, but they're still sort of slightly unconvincing at times.

Yeah, I feel actually quite strongly that I think Arsenal will win this just because whenever I watch City,

their attack has improved, but they're still so, you know, susceptible to counters, and there's still not enough solidity in that midfield.

And it seems that teams are just kind of running through them, and even teams that are not that good.

The only counter to that is that they did beat Chelsea last week, which I did not think was going to happen.

And maybe that was Chelsea having an off day.

And it could just be that when you're adding Mamush to that attack, I mean, him and Holland, there was already a couple of little moments of them connecting with each other.

And I think Holland will be delighted to have an attacking player who gets a little bit closer to him and actually

can dovetail off him a little bit.

It could be that they'll just, their attack will really start rolling and they'll just score so many goals that these defensive deficiencies are not that much of a problem.

But I still think Arsenal

should make hay out of that sort of midfield weakness that cities still have.

I'm even inclined to think Arsenal should win this, but yeah,

football might happen.

And Barry, I think we can officially say Liverpool are going to play someone good this weekend, can't we?

Bournemouth.

Yeah, wait, Bournemouth.

It's a hard one to call, really, the way Bournemouth are playing at the moment.

If Liverpool were to slip up here and Arsenal didn't capitalise, then you've got to say that's probably it, isn't it?

But

yeah,

I just can't call the Bournemouth Liverpool game.

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Bournemouth beat them, but Liverpool probably have enough about them to go down there, do a professional job and see them off.

And I do think at some point Bournemouth's injuries are going to catch up with them

and the players who are playing week in, week out will naturally just get tired, become exhausted like Tottenham's have.

Finally, on to any other business.

In what is a very, very Guardian section of feedback.

We've had a lot of correspondence from Monday's pod on Will Unwin's thoughts on natural wine.

Here's one example email of many, apparently, from Oscar.

Hello, Guardian Football Weekly.

I was listening to the pod while at work, pruning a vineyard in Alsace.

Our listeners, honestly.

After a spot of wild swimming.

Yeah, it's a Guardian column, isn't it?

It's your

textbook Guardian column from

ChatGPT.

And was very disappointed about the disparaging and misguided remarks made about natural wine.

While everyone is entitled to both their opinion as well as their consumption of boring industrial chemical-laden plonk, disregarding the efforts some folks are making in trying to craft something more soulful as well as less destructive for the environment is derisory and unfair.

One can argue that in the context of the entire multi-thousand year history of wine, blindly sticking to this one newfangled post-war industrialized expression of wine as the only good one out there and stubbornly refusing anything else is quite an ange way of looking at this beautiful fermented beverage.

Kind regards, Oscar.

Oscar, that is magnificent.

Barry, you sent us a picture of your setup yesterday watching the games, and you had a glass of wine.

I'm assuming not natural.

No, it wasn't natural wine.

It was that, I think it was Campo Viejo plonk you get from the offee for like depending on what day of the week it is, it's anything between 8 and 11 pounds.

I don't really understand what natural wine is, but I'm wondering, are natural wine enthusiasts the same as craft beer bores and if so and does natural wine like have have bits in it and is it you know

suffused with fennel or chocolate or something and if so i want nothing to do with it i think oscar has just uh just shoved down his pruners in disgust

probably or maybe he was like carving like pruning something beautiful uh and some sort of shape and it's just he's just cut cut the top off um from that i i envy oscar his what sounds like an idyllic existence pruning um

vines in in alsace i i yeah i i'd fancy a week of that i think on any other business as well um someone on blue sky i can't remember who but they

they uh texted me or they sent me a photo of some gulls in Bournemouth.

We were discussing whether or not there are gulls in Bournemouth or why there are so many gulls in Brighton and not any in Bournemouth.

So he did provide picture proof that there are gulls in Bournemouth.

Were they holding today's newspaper?

Because I'm not sure.

You know what it's like?

You know, fake news.

I need to see a bit more of that.

I went to the beach in Bournemouth this summer and I can confirm that there were in fact gulls

on the scene.

They were there.

I believe.

I have seen the gulls.

Okay, okay.

I can trust you, Lars.

I also drink a fair bit of Georgian natural wine.

So this, any other business segment, is right up my alley.

Oh, okay.

Anything else to add on the natural wine?

It's quite good.

But what I think, what I'm kind of agree with Barry on is that it's possible to like stuff like natural wine and craft beer without becoming a total bore about it.

Like, you can just say, I drink a bit of it, it's quite good.

You can leave it at that.

Well, I think that's enough of natural wine chats for today.

I'm sure we'll have more next week.

My thanks to Barry.

Thank you.

Cheers, Lars.

Thank you, Robin.

And thank you, Mark.

Thank you.

We'll be back on Monday.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove, and our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

This is The Guardian.