Boring Burnley’s peerless defence and the EFL wrapped – Football Weekly podcast

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, an EFL special health check on the battles for promotion and relegation in the championship, League One and League Two.

Who's nailed on?

Who could sneak in?

And will there be a great escape?

We'll go deep into the dross that Burnley and Leeds served up on Monday night to keep Daniel Farker's side top of the champ.

Down the other end, could we be witnessing the world's biggest hangover, Luton, set fair for back-to-back relegations?

In League One, is Birmingham's promotion inevitable, or can Wrexham provide a Hollywood ending?

And yet another club in an existential crisis at the bottom of League Two?

We'll have an update on Morecambe's situation.

We'll rattle through all of that in five minutes, then move on to why Oxford United are by far the greatest team the world has ever seen.

Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendening, good morning.

Hi, Robert.

Ali Maxwell from Not the Top 20.

Good morning to you.

Hello, everyone.

And Sanny Rodravagula.

I mean, what can I say?

You were there at Turf Moor.

I mean, you were lost for words when we came on the call this morning.

Anything come back to you after all that?

Well, hello.

I actually went and do you know why I did this to myself.

I went and watched the YouTube highlights back this morning.

What?

Because

there were some ways.

Yeah, I wanted to see what actually were.

It was two minutes and 29 seconds, and one of the highlights was a corner going straight out of play.

That sums it up nicely, I think.

Yeah, I don't think we can

do too much on this, but yeah, a nil-nil draw.

The first shot on target came in the 88th minute.

James Trafford made the save.

I mean, Sally, let's go back to you.

You made the trip specifically.

We do admire your dedication.

And I think that was all in our thoughts.

We were just thinking of you while we were watching yesterday.

It's funny because I rode trips there with Will Unwin.

So all the time whilst I was watching, I was thinking of him because it seems that I'm the most enthusiastic man in the press box and Will might be the opposite of that.

And he had to actually write something.

That was the one thing.

Although I was questioning why I was there, admittedly, you know, I told myself, well, I'm doing it for the pod, you know, I'm doing it for the money, for the big money from Guardian Football Weekly.

But really, if had I not gone, it wouldn't have made any difference.

Whereas Will was actually there being paid to be there and actually had to conjure up 650 words, which he opened with,

this will be one of those games where you had to say i was there and yeah i was there it was it was truly it was truly awful the worst part actually was

having having got a lift with wheel having to then wait for the postmatch interviews to be done and the press conferences to be done because i couldn't get a lift home otherwise so i had to stay even longer i guess the the easy answer is uh two teams cancelled each other out.

I even got the Guardian Live text up for a bit of bounce there.

A guy called Peter said it was Parker the Bus or Farker the Bus, which I thought was very clever.

Actually, excellent.

I like that a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

think of the game.

Think of the game.

Get it out, Sanny.

Think of the game that you've got in your head as the worst game you've ever seen.

For me, it was Plymouth at Sheffield Wednesday, 22nd November 2005.

One of those student games where the club knows that no one's going to go, so they give students tickets for a Fiverr.

And that was an ill-nil and nothing happened.

And I I pulled up the stats and there were four times as many shots in that game than this one this is definitely the worst game I've ever seen um I mean what's what's Scott Parker's what ninth nil-nil is it of the season is it nine or ten

and afterwards he was asked you know you've not had a shot on target all game are you happy with that because up until that point he'd had all the bluster of you know

we've been solid and it's a solid point and he's like no i'm not happy with that but there was no intent there was no intent to attack whatsoever um i also just to to really kind of, you know, get all the media I could, my left ear had Radio Lancashire on.

So I had a bit of those in my ear as well, just to really kind of get a real feel for the vibe from them.

Oh my god, Scott Reid and Steve Ayre.

Steve Ayer, honestly, I thought he was going to pick up his cans, take him off, and walk off.

He was really struggling.

At one point, he was begging for Ashley Barnes to come on just to give everyone a lift.

And that was after an hour.

So, yeah, very bad.

And you were begging for Will Onwin to leave just to give you a lift.

Well, I feel like I should ask you about your childhood, but we'll move on, Sally, this therapy session.

Ali, I mean,

when the club tweet that it's a chess match, you know that's code for boring for all the rest of us.

But I think we should highlight.

Bernie's record.

So undefeated at home and seven games without conceding.

I mean, it is ridiculous, isn't it?

It is incredible.

I think,

you know, can we stretch to an appreciation of two, or rather, four excellent centre-backs on the pitch last night who completely won their battles, Estev and Egan Riley in particular, in the back line for Burnley, given their defensive record, you know, as well as James Trafford in goal, are, for this level, are...

playing astoundingly well and did so again last night.

I love that Burnley fans shout Steve whenever Estev does anything good, which is very, very regularly.

And Egan Riley is excellent too.

Ampadou and Rodon are brilliant at the back for leads as well, we should say, but I guess it's maybe more notable because Estev and Egan Riley are both 22 years old.

Trafford is also 22 years old.

So they are on course to be the best second-tier defense ever with two 22-year-olds at centre-back and in goal, which I think is pretty notable.

They have a better record than Chelsea's Premier League winning and Premier League record defence as well.

So, you know, you can put it into that context how impressive they are on that side of the game.

They are desperate in attack.

You know, this is a team going for automatic promotion with parachute payments and some star names for the level.

And if you take out the three

exceptions to their season, where they've scored five against Cardiff, five against Argyle, and four against Luton, two of those games were the first two games of the season.

They've only scored 22 goals in 26 of their other games.

So it is pretty horrendous on the other end of the pitch.

And that's why you get this strange situation where the not the top 20 Twitter account tweeted last night impressive stats around Burnley's 20th clean sheet in their 29th league game this season, more than any side managed in 46 games last season.

And the replies, mostly from Burnley fans, are so angry that we've managed to put a positive spin on it.

It's a fairly remarkable situation.

And they have been involved in 29% of all of the championships Neil-nil draws this season.

So don't watch Burnley again.

Anyone?

Anyone?

Yeah, this was grim.

I mean, this was grim.

And it wasn't helped by the fact, I think, that it came on the back of the Manchester United Fulham game the night before, which was, you know, Samba football by comparison.

But I wanted to ask you that, lads,

how do Burnley fans feel about this?

Because they're nicely placed.

They're third.

They're only two points off the pace, I think,

for automatic promotion or is it one?

But

I couldn't, I genuinely couldn't pay to watch that week in, week out.

It's diabolical.

On that,

Turfmoor has seen 1.4 goals per game.

It's the lowest number of goals for any club in the EFL, the lowest since

1921, 22 season.

So there is data to back that up.

It is the worst.

I was expecting some maybe booze at full-time, you know, a bit of dissatisfaction.

There wasn't really any of that.

And I suppose

the other way of looking at this is look at how the teams who've come up in the Premier League this season have done.

Like, you know, Southampton, we all know, have been atrocious.

And

if you can go up being defensively minded and solid when you're up against the big teams in the Premier League, have you therefore got a strong base?

I mean, yeah, Maxima Steven, CJ Egan Riley at the back are doing very well.

Whether they could handle Erling Holland, well, Egan Riley came from City, so I think he might be used to that.

I don't know, maybe they didn't cross-quite cross paths.

But

so that's another argument.

That is one way of putting it.

But when you've got like Neil Nils at home to Stoke City, for example, you know, that isn't a good look.

There are games they should have won.

The fact they're not in the automatic promotion places does actually kind of dismiss that argument to an extent.

They do need to score goals and they're just not getting them.

And Scott Parker's had a massive squad.

He's had a big turnover.

He's got creative players in there.

They're kind of becoming a little bit repetitive get the ball out wide uh to Jaden Anthony earlier in the season it was Luca Cogliosho

if that doesn't come right they they recycle it back he seems to have a player one player extra back every time like that turgid five aside team you play in or I play in at least with a team of right backs and we're all waiting on one guy to do something but the Burnley fans yeah I think they're kind of overweight and see.

They've kind of seen all elements of what can happen and how you'd go up and what happens there.

So, but or that or they've just been weathered completely and it's just you know they're in the abyss already didn't even know it was nil-nil yeah i was going to say i don't think there were probably no booze because everyone was just asleep or just frozen uh

yeah exactly brilliant number of things um

Scott Parker still looking like a raffish World War II fighter pilot.

Producer Joel says he thinks Connor Roberts looks like a member of the French Resistance.

I think that's again another great observation.

I'd love that Scott Parker's kind of trying to just collect

battle reenactments.

So World War.

Well, I mean, I imagine his squadron would be flying backwards and

wouldn't have any bullets in any of their guns.

The turret gun would be empty.

It just shows how bad the game was that it's what players look like that is springing to mind.

And I must admit, there was a point during the game where I found there was a close-up shot of Joe Rodon, the lead centre-back, and I found myself thinking, he looks like he might have a cold, you know?

And then I was thinking, how bad would your cold have to be for you to not play as a professional footballer?

That was the sort of places my mind was taking me during this horrendous affair.

I just love how offended everyone was by this game.

So good.

So good.

So the other two teams in the mix, Sheffield United and Sunderland, a surprise defeat, a heavy one for Sheffield United against Hull on Friday night.

Sunderland drew two all with Plymouth, who, well, a little flicker there, but they do look doomed.

I mean, nobody in that top four looks incredibly consistent.

Ali, I know you did your sort of mid-season check on your on your podcast.

Who do you think could sort of crash in or who do you think could crash out, I guess, indeed?

I've been pretty clear in my own mind that leads are the best team in the league.

I think that they will win the league, and I don't think that Cheff United or Burnley or Sunderland are likely to push them too close to the title.

I do do think they'll pull away.

Even last night, you know, clearly they didn't have a sparkling game going forward, but they were absolutely the team, the better side, the team that were trying a bit more in possession.

And yeah, they weren't able to break down what is potentially the best defence ever in the second tier.

But as an away game against one of your main rivals for the title, I still think you have to see that as a good point and be kind of energised by the fact that they were more likely to win.

Sunderland went to Burnley the other day and drew 0-0 on a Friday night.

That one was, to be fair, a lot more entertaining.

Of course they did.

That was also at that game.

That one was a bit old sanny.

To be fair, there were two last-minute penalties both saved by

0-0.

That was a great 0-0.

But yeah, I mean, difficult to pick between Sheffield United, Burnley and Sunderland.

I kind of nailed my colours to the Sunderland mast in the mid-season predictions.

I think that they're the best going forward of those three teams.

And there's a lot of focus on Burnley's defensive record for obvious reasons but Sunderland and Sheffield United both concede well under a goal a game as well so if that's the case to me anyway Burnley's impressive defence is not as important when the other teams around them are also keeping tons of clean sheets what's more important is are you going to be able to score enough goals in the last 17 games to kind of get yourself into second spot and stay there and for me it is Sunderland albeit that home draw to our guy over the weekend fairly damaging particularly in the context of everyone else dropping points well Barry as a Sunderland fan, are you as optimistic?

As a Sunderland fan, you're never optimistic.

But

and to be honest, I'm torn between whether I want to see them promoted or just stay where they are in the championship.

Because when you see what's happened to some teams who go up,

it's not fun being in the Premier League, getting beaten week in, week out.

It's just it's horrible, a very unpleasant experience.

But, you know, you want your team to succeed.

You want them to test themselves against the best.

If they did go up, would they be well enough equipped to make a decent fist of staying up?

I suppose the only way to find out is by going up.

That was a bad result against Plymouth.

Plymouth have four wins this season.

The bottom of the table, one of those wins came at home to Sunderland.

Plymouth fans made the, what is it, a

700-mile trip, round trip or whatever to this game hats off to them for for you know they have to travel so far for some of their away games to watch a bad team and yeah sunderland i think threw this one away uh they went behind then they went 2-1 up and and plymouth scored a late equalizer and got a point um so that's a flicker of hope for them Yeah, Sunderland are already performing well above preseason expectations, so if they did get promoted, it would be a massive surprise because everyone was expecting them to struggle i think uh or maybe mid-table at best so yeah let's see where where it goes i i kind of i want to ask um sanny or ali

about aaron connolly who It's his birthday today, 25 today.

Happy birthday, Aaron.

He's just signed for Millwall after an underwhelming spell at Sunderland.

And that underwhelming spell at Sunderland was preceded by underwhelming spells at Hull, Venetia, Middlesbrough.

This all came after he burst on the scene, Mika Richards style, with his two goals against Spurs in his first ever start for Brighton.

But his career seems to have just gone over a cliff after that very promising start.

I was wondering if either of our more knowledgeable guests

have any explanation as to why that might be.

I mean, Aaron Connolly himself has addressed this this season when he signed for Sunderland.

He gave a very candid interview to the Sunderland website explaining that he's had and had had problems with alcohol for quite a few years.

And I think his, you know, that the fact that he did burst onto the scene and that a lot was expected of him was something that clearly caused him quite a lot of stress.

And one of the ways that he

dealt with that was to

turn to alcohol.

So, yeah,

that seems to have been a big reason why connolly's last few years have been so underwhelming and why he's found it really tough to um stay fit and and contribute to any of the teams that he's played for um you know i think that that was considered to be a really great thing for him to be open about and uh he got a huge amount of support from sunderland fans but also from lots across the game and i think you know the fact that he's looking pretty bright in early appearances uh for milwauke can only be a good thing yeah absolutely um and so let's look at the other sort of playoff contenders wes brom we talked a little bit on the pod yesterday about Tony Mowbray, got his first win back after beating Cancer.

5-1 demolition back at the Hawthorns.

Middlesbrough in the final playoff position.

I listened to your description of it.

I'm just going to send people to your podcast, Ali, yesterday on the winning goal for Preston North End.

It was totally bizarre.

Two players clashing heads and sort of not sure whether to play on or not.

And then before they knew it, it was in the back of the nets.

So that was very, very odd.

Definitely recommend watching that and then listening to your podcast to

have your brilliant description.

Blackburn, two points behind in seventh, Bristol City.

I mean, Sanny, Bristol City, it's like they've got 10 years in the championship.

I think they're the joint longest serving.

It just seems like it's never going to happen for them, in my mind, anyway.

I think that's a very astute point.

I'm not sure it will happen.

You know,

take Scott Twine's free kicks out the side.

It'd be even worse.

I think as far as as who would be going up out of the rest, I mean, you mentioned Wes Brom and Tony Mowbray after that 5-1 saying he wants his players to release their inner child and talking specifically about Grady D and Ghana did very well.

And I think, having watched a lot of Albion this season as well, Carlos Corbran leaving and Mowbray coming in allows that attack to kind of flow.

And I actually think

on its day when it works, it'll work very well.

I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about the relegation candidates, but Pompey were atrocious.

But they do get loads of goals.

I mean, the team that on the front, as far as goals-wise goes, that I'm really interested to see how it'll do is Norwich City.

Because Josh Sargent is now back.

He's had a few injuries.

His latest setback, he came back and got a double in a 5-1 against Swansea.

Borger Saints was tearing it up till he decided to spit at Chris Metham

just before Christmas and got himself a ban.

But when those two are back, then you've got like...

an absolute shedload of goals and

if Norwich could just stop scoring four or five in individual games and spread those out they'd be okay because that's the one thing that you really do need isn't it I mean we talk about Burnley and their defence they're not going to get automatic because they're not scoring enough so that's the team that I'm although they're in 11th at the moment that's the team I'd really keep my eye on

but and yeah I think Bristol City just just haven't quite got the X factor outside of Scott Twine sorry

Yeah,

I think you're right.

Shefford Wednesday, three points off the playoffs in 10th.

And yeah, the usual circus at Watford, it seems, Ali, with Tom Cleverly, who's actually done a really, really good job there.

Yeah, he has done a good job.

I mean, they're drifting down the table after a strong start.

They were incredible at home to start the season, and that's kind of melted away as well.

And now they're losing home game.

So the last couple of weeks have been difficult for a young manager to try and stop the slide.

And the owners, or rather, just those in charge of Watford, I don't think really help the situation necessarily.

They don't strike you as a club that provide a lot of support to their managers, which I think is a shame.

And last week, around this time, last week, I think it was, there were some quite random reports from Spain that a Spanish manager was being lined up and would take over Watford.

So they came out with two statements at the back end of last week, one not...

attributed to anyone and then one attributed to Gino Pozzo saying Tom Cleverley's the manager categorically and anything that says otherwise is speculation and I just find it quite funny with apologies to Watford fans that we can have a situation where an ownership have put out two statements supporting their manager and everyone's gone like yeah yeah no ignore that they're they're you know they've they've cried wolf so many times like we just don't we just don't simply don't believe them no smoke without fire when it comes to what for's owner so you know they might be telling the truth they might be keen to keep tom cleverly at the helm but it doesn't feel like it and when things start to slide like this it'll be the third season in a row if it does happen.

The Watfords slide towards mid-table, don't look close to a Premier League return anytime soon.

And clearly, when it is this repetitive with so many different managers and head coaches at the helm, you have to look at the top of the club and wonder if the way that they're operating is as effective as it seemed to be five, 10 years ago.

Let's talk about relegation then from the championship.

Delighted to say Oxford United aren't in this conversation.

Gary Rowitt.

He's started to win me round a little bit.

But again, as I say, Des Buckingham is still in my heart very, very much.

Hull City, amazing win on Friday Night to mention Sheffield United, and they've signed Louis Barry on loan from Villa,

who tore it up once again at Stockport this season.

Stanny, I mean, gosh, I mean, that seems like some statement signing.

That is, and Hull

under Liam Rossina also managed to get quite a few quality loan players.

And Liam DeLatt being one, actually, is doing quite well in the Premier League now.

So they've got form at least for making those big signings.

And yeah, Louis Barry,

he just played with complete vibes didn't he in league two then he got an injury and then and then in league one came back just as strong and the the amount of goals he scored he's still league one's top scorer and just the quality of the goals as well he he could conjure something up out of nothing i mean if you don't know his backstory it's great as well he was the first english player to go and play in barcelona's uh youth academy youth system

he did actually manage to be one of the kit one of the young players on the outside of a game a training match with Mid Messi and Co.

You know, when he'd bring the youngsters over to play with the first team.

So he's had a moment of that at least.

Yeah, he's not at his chance at Aston Villa yet, but again, we are continually seeing players, especially English players, get developed in the EFL and go on for great careers.

And he's certainly not doing his chances of making a...

getting a place in the Premier League any harm whatsoever.

So I think it's fascinating to see how he does for Hull because he's had this chance in League Two that he took very well.

He's gone to League One and he's been the outstanding player there.

I mean, he scored from what the halfway line on the opening day of the season and kind of set his stall out for the season so far.

Um, how he does in the championship, uh, it would be really good to see.

But in Ruben Selez, Ruben Sayes, I want Ali to give me a correction on that, having his name suddenly changed halfway through his career in England, who can get something out of anyone, uh, regardless of where they are.

The job he did at Reading was incredible.

I am fascinated to see how Louis Barry will do at Hull City.

So, the Ruben Sellers thing or Ruben Sayes thing is quite funny, at least to me, because we've been calling him Ruben Sellers

throughout his tenure at Reading and to start a Who City.

And then a couple of weeks ago,

we had Ruben on the podcast.

And George, who's significantly less passionate about pronunciation than I am, I think it's fair to say, messaged me that morning because he was doing the interview and said, I feel like I should probably...

if he's coming on, like get his name right out of respect.

And I was like, you've opened a really,

unfortunately, you've opened a can of worms here because when you find out how you're meant to say it, you're going to hate it.

You're not going to want to say it because you're going to think you're going to sound stupid.

And people are going to be like, why are these guys suddenly getting all smart in Spanish on the pod?

So, but, but, you know, I'm of the opinion that once you learn how to say a name the correct way, it's

wrong not to.

So, yeah, I wish I'd never opened that Pandora's box.

But Ruben say yes is very much how he would say it, or a Spanish speaker.

Well, as the most mispronounced man in broadcasting, I salute.

Yeah.

How was he as an interviewee?

Just out of interest.

He seems like a smart guy.

Mate, I mean,

absolutely impeccable.

I mean, couldn't have been any better.

And just towing the line brilliantly between, you know, too much coaching speak.

He's just the right side of it.

So he gave us so much detail in terms of coaching and development and tactics that you very rarely get in a 20-minute Zoom chat with a manager.

But

he did so in a way that felt very genuine as well, which is a great skill.

It didn't feel like he was just trying to impress.

He just is incredibly clear about how he manages.

And

kind of the thing that I it made me think afterwards was clearly football management has changed a lot.

And in particular, the demographic of managers in the top two and now three English divisions has changed a lot.

And not just in terms of nationality, but also in terms of, you know, how they are formed and where they come from in terms of, you know, kind of arriving as a head coach and a manager.

And Seyas, he spent basically 10 to 15 years traveling the world because he didn't have a professional career, coaching in Azerbaijan, Turkey, Greece,

Denmark, Norway, I think five or six different nations before he arrived at Southampton to work under Hassan Huttel.

And so

when you think about it, he arrives as Reading manager in his first full-time senior management job and is ostensibly a very young coach.

And you think maybe inexperienced, but actually, he has spent 10 to 15 years fine-tuning what he's going to do when he becomes the number one.

And I think that's where the clarity comes from.

We spoke to Richie Wellens the week after on the podcast, and without bringing up say yes, he spoke about the fact that when he started his managerial career straight off the back of a 20-year playing career, one of the things he found challenging was having to know how to communicate his ideas clearly and concisely to players and thinking and communicating in a way that he hadn't done previously for 20 years.

So I thought that was really interesting and maybe explains why some of this,

the new wave of coaches and managers, you know, are so good at communicating their ideas quickly.

And I think we're now seeing that the generation of young players in particular, they're now used to that and they really expect that level of clarity and detail in their coaching.

Other relegation candidates then, Stoke City, still without a win under Mark Robbins.

Derby County lost the last six games in the championship, two points off safety.

I think we need to talk about Luton Town, Sanny,

expecting them to come good at some point, but it's not happening, is it?

Matt Bloomfield now in charge, he's yet to win.

They just seem to press the self-destruct button.

And this could be, as I say, back-to-back relegations all the way down from the Premier League to League One.

It's pretty shocking stuff, isn't it?

It is.

And I, in our previous EFL pod, had been

a

Rob Edwards, I've almost forgotten his name.

God, Rob Edwards advocate.

That show biz.

Yeah.

Just because I thought, well, you know, they've got the parachute payments and we've seen

he's a great coach.

We've seen what he can do.

Can they just ride this through?

But it got so toxic.

It got so bad.

The players are really underperforming.

Elijah Radabayo, if you want to go in the XG, I think he should have scored 11.

He's got five.

They've just been

up front, really not at it at all.

And defensively just completely all over the place I mean Alfie Dowty who did so well last season in the Premier League has been out injured and that's a a mitigating factor because he is still one of the the best most creative players funny enough I actually kind of know Matt Bloomfield through through two separate avenues one was when he was still a player or at least when he retired because for if you don't know

he had a freak injury where he got a ball into the back of the head from a free kick and it concussed him so badly he had to retire and

in my world service sports program I was working on Robin Koch of Leeds had had a similar concussion so we got a few players who'd had concussion and we kind of talked about it and I kept in touch with him through that and so every now and then we drop a message and also he went to school with my wife so I've kept in touch with him that way so I

I say all that just as a caveat because I don't want to I'm almost pulling my punches a little bit even though I'm pretty sure my wife doesn't really talk to Matt Bloomfield not that I know anyway but it's

not going to this

it took him a long time to get wickham going this time last year he was under serious threat to lose his job and he's kind of turned it around and did so well i i do know that i think his family still live in in suffolk in felix though and he was kind of based in wickham so luton's kind of halfway back So that is another draw.

But you see, he's saying the right things.

I think it's such a big job now.

The players aren't performing.

The game against Millwall, which was a terrible game of football as well.

But defensively, they were all over the place.

And it is a worry.

And

it's not...

What also is really bad about this as well is often when we see a club go through back-to-back relegations, it's when there's calamity off the pitch and it's a complete disaster.

And Luton are essentially, what, a fan-owned club or certainly have that kind of fan ownership as part of them.

And

off the pitch, they're doing everything right.

You know, they didn't go crazy with the money, they're getting a new stadium, that's all coming in place.

So, we need clubs like Luton to actually do well to kind of show the rest of the football world that it can be done properly.

So, with that, and the fact that, you know, Matt Bloomfield is an old friend in some respects, I want him to do okay.

Stay up, please.

I was not expecting a deep dive of such thoroughness into the life and times of Matt Bloomfield, I have to say.

Hats off, Sanny.

I think we've come to expect that from Sanny, though, haven't we?

You know, this is the man who went to Burnley-nil, Leeds United-nil.

They'll be making t-shirts of that, I'm sure.

That will do part one.

In part two, we'll do League One.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

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We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category, digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

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Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office.

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Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

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Welcome back to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Before we go on to leagues one and two, in an interview with The Sun released on Monday evening, the former Premier League referee David Coot has said he has hidden his sexuality during his career, fearing the abuse he would receive for being gay.

So some of the quotes, I'm gay and I've struggled with feeling proud of being me over a long period of time.

I've received deeply unpleasant abuse during my career as a ref and to add my sexuality to that would have been really difficult.

Another statement on Monday, he apologised for his behaviour.

This has been one of the most difficult periods of my life.

I take full responsibility for my actions, which fell way below what was expected of me.

He says, my sexuality isn't the only reason that led me to be in that position, but I'm not telling an authentic story if I don't say that I'm gay and as I've had real struggles dealing with hiding that, I hid my emotions as a young ref and hid my sexuality as well.

A good quality as a referee, but a terrible quality as a human being.

And that's led me to a whole course of behaviours.

A lot to unpack there, Barry.

What do you make of all this?

I think it's sad but understandable that he felt the need to hide his sexuality.

There's no players out in football.

There are no current referees out in football.

In rugby you've Nigel Owens who came out and nobody cared.

But I suspect in football if a referee came out he probably would get abused for being gay.

And otherwise I don't care whether David Cruz is gay or not as I suspect most people won't.

But I just hope

he wanted to come out publicly and that he wasn't railroaded into it.

I think it wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

So yeah, I just hope he was happy to come out publicly and that he wasn't sort of blackmailed into it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because as you say, that's not the first time this has happened.

Sandy, you've spent time with the PG MOL.

What are your thoughts on this?

Well, funnily enough.

One of the programmes they have is the Breaking Barriers programme.

So basically, you get the top refs and you get them in a room with some young up-and-coming refs or people interested in becoming referees.

And it is all about trying to get as many different people involved in refereeing as possible for all the reasons that we know that having people who reflect our society in everything, any walk of life,

is a net benefit overall.

So, it's really tragic that

this is the way that we find out about David Coote's life and how he had all this other stuff going on, his sexuality as well, in the context of

if there's a young gay referee who was looking up to somebody like David Coote, they've kind of missed that opportunity there.

And he had an opportunity in a different world, but that's in a world where all this other stuff wasn't going on around him.

I mean, I'd spent some time with Sam Barrett the day after he'd refereed Luton Arsenal last season.

I asked him, you know, why, why'd you do this?

Like, we'd gone through his life story, and he'd been a player, he wanted to play as a keen player, and he didn't become a referee.

And he's so young as well.

He's in his early 30s.

And he just said, it's the best place on the pitch.

It's the best place in the stadium to be at a game.

You're in the middle of the match.

The match is going on.

You're there.

There's no better place in the whole stadium than to be watching a game.

And I was like, that is a great answer.

And that's why they do this.

All the referees, they absolutely live and breathe it.

They love it so much.

And even stuff like...

So at that time, he'd yet to make a VAR call.

I think his next game against Newcastle, he then did.

And he he was saying, Oh, do you know, I'm dreading that first moment.

I've got to go over to the screen because then I'm a bit like, oh, have I made a mistake?

What's going on?

And you got a real insight into the human element.

And I wish we could do more of that.

But of course, we've seen through what's happened to David Coote, we've seen with Michael Oliver, every reason under the sun why

referees need protecting as well.

And

I honestly think the people who maybe would be having a go at him for his sexuality are the same people who'd be having a go at him for everything else about him and him being a referee in the first place.

The narrow-minded people who have a go at everyone for anything and are full of vitriol and anger regardless.

I think it's really sad that this is this whole situation has arisen.

Back when it first, all this news came out.

A lot of us, you know, on the pod as well, we talked about, you know, we worry for his well-being and clearly this is part of it.

I mean, he said, I watched his interview this morning, he said he's had a lot of support with from the PGMOL, Koot, and he did say he's been working with a psychologist as well, and that's been really positive and helpful for him.

And he says he wants to, going forward, he wants to kind of

be someone who can help shed more light on refereeing and get more people involved in it and, you know, maybe something in the media.

But for now, I think he just needs to really kind of look after himself.

And hopefully he's got enough people around him who can do that with him as well.

Yeah, hopefully something positive can come out of all of this.

Just to let everyone know, I do have my three-month-old again with me, just in case you can hear.

Poor boy has already listened and watched so much football in

his short life.

That child is impeccably well-behaved in the ways of podcast etiquette.

I haven't heard.

Well, as I say,

he's already well-versed in it all.

Let's move on to League One, a full round of fiction, league one and league two tonight.

So it might be slightly outdated

by the time you listen to this.

So Birmingham top does feel like there's to lose.

Three points separating themselves and Wickham and

Wrexham, it seems.

I'm actually interested in Wickham, Ali, because obviously lost their manager to Luton.

No word on who they might get in, but this could be quite a delicate situation given where they are in the table.

They want to get this right, don't they?

Yeah, quickly, Robin, can you confirm or deny that your son is having the best sleep of his short life so far after being subjected to Burnley nil, leads nil, the shadow of which has really hung over this population.

He was actually really, he said it was a chess match and he enjoyed the tactical battles and he was wide awake.

Oh, classy.

That's classy from here.

Top of League One, it felt two weeks ago similar to top of the championship, a sort of two from four scenario with the teams that you mentioned, Birmingham, Wickham, Wrexham, and Huddersfield,

all of them in slightly worse form than they have been previously in the campaign, which is opening the door a little bit for a team like Stockport, maybe who are in good form, Leighton Orient, who have absolutely flown up the table from the relegation zone to one point outside the playoffs in about six weeks.

I still think Birmingham City, with the games in hand, with the two-point cushion, and just being an excellent team for this level, very, very dominant.

Not, there are some similarities with Burnley.

Forgive me, Birmingham City fans, you are not as bad at scoring goals as Burnley.

But there is a similar vibe to them in that they are defensively incredible, barely ever face a shot, let alone concede a goal.

Going forward at the top of the pitch, and with the caveat that...

teams at this level generally defending for their lives with everyone behind the ball against them, making it very, very difficult for them to play with any space.

They're not that exciting going forward.

I think there was a bit more expected of this group of stars, essentially, particularly Alfie May and Jay Stansfield, when it comes to scoring goals.

You know, Wickham have scored nine goals more than them this season, but they should canter to the title, I think.

And I think it'll be a bit of a scrap between Wickham, obviously currently managerless after Matt Bloomfield left them for Luton.

They appear to have some pretty rich, ambitious owners who came in at sort of the end of last season.

They've broken their transfer record twice in January, signing Danish players.

So it's a new look, Wickham.

And I think if they do go up to the championship, you can shelve any thoughts of little old Wickham under Gareth Ainsworth because it will look and feel very different.

And then Wrexham, who incredible at home, basically win every game, drew with Birmingham the other night, but pretty much win every other game at home.

And away from home, a sort of bottom-half team at best.

Huddersfield, who went 16 unbeaten before losing to Bolton at home on the weekend.

So I'm not hugely clear myself on who will finish second alongside Birmingham City.

But that chasing pack, again, like if you're Stockport, Barnsley, Leighton Orient, Reading, Bolton and Charlton, who are all separated by four points, you're probably thinking playoffs rather than automatics at this point.

Sanny Bolton, currently ninth, and they got rid of Ian Everts.

Oxford United broke them, broke them at Wembley, and it seems they've just not recovered.

um from that it really felt like they really wanted to keep hold of him they wanted to give him every opportunity but it seems like i guess maybe that the fan opposition just got a bit too much in the end yeah and they did a little couple of weeks earlier, did kind of back him.

The chair woman did actually put out a statement saying, you know, we are going to back him, but results

haven't been great, have they?

He is a very,

it certainly comes across a very abrasive man in the wrong moment.

You know, twice this, even very recently, we've seen him have a go at opposition players.

He's having a go at the Charlton captain.

the other day on the pitch.

There might have been some four-letter words thrown from both parties.

And he's angered the fans as well sometimes in in in his his post-match interviews and just the way he kind of can carry himself but he is quite a passionate man he's he has had bolton playing good football in his time there he's been there quite a while actually when he when he did leave the club kind of put out a little kind of like thank you sort of uh video thing kind of showing all his best bits so it kind of feels at the right time but you've got to remember where bolton were when he when he came in which was

berry and bolton were both on the verge of being kicked out the efl My team Berry ended up going out, and Bolton did not, and they were on death's door.

And

at one point, and I've mentioned it before, he did say they're the best team in the league in league two, and they were right near the bottom.

And he went this crazy run, got him promoted back into league one, steadied the ship.

And they've been there or thereabouts.

And yeah, he never recovered from that Wembley final.

But yeah, it's probably the right time for him to go.

And I'm sure there'll be other clubs interested in him.

Maybe a few players at other teams not so keen on him joining them.

Yeah, no, he's a bit of a controversial figure, isn't he?

Relegation in League One looks fairly set at the moment.

You do see some movement, but Burton, Cambridge, and Crawley on 21 points.

Shrewsbury bottom with 20.

Gareth Ainsworth has started to turn their form around before their last-minute loss to Charlton on Saturday.

They'd lost just one in seven.

Six points to make up, though, for those between 21st and 23rd.

Any takers, Ali, do we think well we're kind of desperate for something to happen down the bottom of league one because that four in the relegation places has been pretty much set since the first week of the season um and you occasionally get things like burton rattling off back-to-back wins as they have done in their last two games doubling their win total for the whole season uh in games 26 and 27.

uh cambridge have had a couple of small little bursts of wins as you mentioned shrewsbury are clearly better more competitive under gareth ainsworth the way that they do it is by reducing the game to very little, playing a lot of direct football, trying to keep clean sheets and nick 1-0 wins from set pieces, and they're doing that fairly well.

But again, with the seven-point gap as it is for them to make up, you wonder if they're going to be able to win enough games that they'll need to in the last 20 to kind of close the gap.

You know, the hope comes not so much from their own performance level, these four, but the performance level of Northampton Town, who are just above the relegation zone, and Peterborough, both of these two teams teams on 27.

Northampton, probably expecting a season of struggle, probably weren't expecting their talismanic manager, John Brady, to step down from the club, just exhausted, I think, basically, after an incredible tenure that he'd had and keeping them, just about keeping their heads above water in League One.

But they're in desperate form.

They've only won two games in the last three months.

And Peterborough, you know, more dramatic, really, because Peterborough is quite a dramatic football club.

There's always something going on.

Their games always have tons of goals compared to everyone else.

They've always got young wonder kids being bought and sold.

And obviously, Barry Fry and Dara McAntony at the head of the club are entertainers at their core.

The club are doing terribly.

They've only won one game in the last two months.

It was a 4-3 win against Crawley.

They lost 5-1 at Lincoln over the weekend, and it was their worst display of the season so far.

So dropping down the league towards a relegation that certainly no one would have seen coming and getting worse and worse.

Darren Ferguson very much got the flamethrower out after this one and basically said, It's the softest group of players I've ever worked with.

What can I do with this useless lot?

So, watch this space for Peterborough because they can't really afford for this form to carry on.

And it would be a huge dent in the whole club's ethos and the way that they operate and the confidence with which they operate from the top of the club if they were to drop down to League Two.

It's interesting that Darren uses a flamethrower and wasn't bequeathed his dad's airdrive

might be trademarked maybe might be trademarked i do i wonder if they who will um be the in-between manager between him and you know him coming back because that that's usually what happens isn't it with peter brewer he

they sack him um and there's somebody hired mccan grant mccanny grant mccann and then yeah it and and so on and so forth they really need to get some some more contacts in that book um luke has messaged saying can we have a ryan loft minute from max and you know, in the absence of your podcasting husband, Barry, would you like to do the honours for him?

Yeah, well, I'm confident Cambridge can get them out of this pickle because Ryan Loft, who I think Cambridge signed on the day of the European Championships final and weirdly

precedent, didn't it?

Was the topic of

a pod discussion when we were covering the Euros final.

Lofty has hit a rich name of scoring form.

He's now got one goal in one,

which was the decisive goal in Cambridge's 3-2 win over Mansfield at the weekend.

So if he can continue that rich vein of form, who's to say that Cambridge can't extract themselves from the mire in which they currently find themselves?

A huge vote of confidence from the club for Lofty yesterday.

They signed two strikers on that.

What I would say on that 3-2 win by the way Max has told us that he catches the Cambridge games by scrolling through the Twitter feed and he goes to the beginning and catches up and Cambridge scored at 31 seconds so he would have been having a great time and then when Ryan Loff made it 3-0

he must have been bouncing off the ceilings and then and then they kind of let Mansfield I'm very stressed yeah

when it got to 3-2 in the 91st minute I'm sure he was not enjoying himself again but I did I did look at the data by the way, just for Max.

I looked at the data.

And in chance creation and shots on target and big chances, missed and expected goals, they are not in the bottom four.

So they are actually making stuff happen.

They're just not making it happen.

But yeah, maybe Ryan Loft under the pressure of all those other players he's now competing with will braise his levels.

Undroppable, he'll be.

That one's for you, Max.

That's League One done.

League two is coming next in part three.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

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Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office.

Like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So League Two, as is always the case with these pods, we haven't got a lot of time for League Two.

So let's rattle through some of the big stories.

Walsall 12 points clear and a game in hand at the top.

Three nil defeats of Bradford City at the weekend.

But Ali, you're kind of, you feel that's going to be an anomaly and that they're going to cruise?

I think so.

I think so.

I really don't want to overreact to one defeat when they'd won their previous nine league games.

I guess the

only question mark is whether they replace the goals of Nathan Lowe, who was recalled by Stoke.

He could still go back to Walsall if Stokes sign a few more strikers this window.

He might go back to Walsall, which would be a nice story because I think for someone like him to win the League Two Golden Boot, age 19 and an experience promotion would be great for his confidence moving forward.

But he has been playing games for Stoke in the championship in the last couple of weeks, so maybe that's his level now.

I'm not too worried about Woolso, I think it's fair to say.

And beneath them, just an absolute bun fight, isn't it?

There's a seven team separated by four points now.

It felt like there were about 10 teams gunning for a playoff position.

Now there is a bit of a gap opening up between currently eighth place, Salford City on 42, then Grimsby on 38, and Chesterfield on 36.

So it kind of now to me, it feels like a real fight for for second and third and those who miss out will likely drop into the playoff places but it's kind of hard to predict who that will be because there's merits and probably some uh things to detract from all of these teams that's kind of the beauty of league two you know the reason it is easily the most difficult league of the three to predict and generally the most competitive with the most surprise results in terms of the league table it's because the differences between these teams are much smaller than they are as you go up the pyramid where the gaps in budgets get a lot bigger.

So it's a brilliant, brilliant league.

I will just give credit to Bradford.

They were the team that beat Walsall 3-0 over the weekend.

Fantastic display from them and particularly impressive because their striker talisman Andy Cook tore his ACL on New Year's Day.

He has scored more goals than anyone else at this level over the last three, three and a half years, scores about a third of Bradford's goals total in that time.

And he's out.

There's a lot of concern about how they would find a way of scoring goals.

And so far, so good.

They've won their three games since he's been injured.

So they're coping with that very well.

Bradford and other team, be like Bristol City, just seem like they're stuck.

They're a bit stuck, aren't they?

They just can't quite seem to get over the line.

Salford City were flying as well, five wins on the bounce before the 8-0 defeat to Man City.

I think some of their players are just still in that Etihad dressing room, just staring into the middle distance, not sure what's happened to them.

Because since then, they've lost the last two league games.

Sanny, anyone you feel might sneak in?

I mean, it's not really sneaking in, as Ali said.

It's kind of uh anyone who could put a run together yeah it is and just to keep the running theme of of clean sheets um afc wimbledon uh do have the most in this division uh along with call colchester united with 12 and i think that that could be a real positive for them

and

they they were in such a mire in league one they they were just about surviving year upon year and then they had a really bad run and got relegated and at the time i was like well you know they've got plough lane they need a bit of positivity.

Take the hit into league two and maybe build a bit of momentum and have a bit of fun whilst you're doing it.

I mean, the fact that they can laud it over MK Dons, at least at home, and then a nil-nil away last time out, has given them that positivity.

And I think that's one of the teams that, you know, Johnny Jackson, I think, has figured out what the club's about.

And, you know, after his Charlton kind of misstep, if you want to call it that, it seems to be going in the right direction.

So that's the one team I'm kind of thinking have that solidity.

Whereas someone like Knotts County, who scored lots of goals, concede quite a lot as well.

And Grant McCann's Don Caster Rose, because his top three go up automatically, does give you that bit of leeway to

maybe not be as well performing.

And yeah,

that's kind of who I think.

I think Solver City, it's funny, they invest so much money, they bring in all these players that are like known names in the lower league and just can't quite get it together.

We'll have to wait and see if this is the year.

Or we get more Gary Neville shots of him in a looking a bit miserable in a in a press room somewhere in a director's box.

I have no animus towards Salford, but their total lack of success does seem quite puzzling considering their owners and their wealth.

But

yeah, and I do find it amusing that Gary Neville always preaches or often preaches patience for managers higher up the the food chain but is is never slow about getting rid of any of his own who are underperforming.

Yeah, you do wonder what will happen if this streak continues.

Moving on to relegation, I mean,

you have to be pretty bad, really, to get relegated from League Two because there's only two positions.

But I mean, that feels a bit harsh.

Morecom currently propping up the table, Ali, and it's, I mean, relegation would be bad, but it just seems like they've got a myriad of other problems.

Yeah, they do.

These aren't new problems.

These are problems that need to be solved.

And the longer they go on, the closer the club might get to what the board of directors called last summer a potentially catastrophic outcome, which, you know, Sanny and Barry know all too well exactly what that means and what that entails.

The issue here is that the owners, Bond Group Investments, they've owned the club for six and a half years now.

For the last...

two and a half, the club's been supposedly up for sale.

But for whatever reason, reason, and I say for whatever reason, because Bond Group Investments

ability to communicate with the Morecambe fans is incredibly poor and very frustrating for the fan base.

That hasn't happened, and there's currently nothing publicly available about a potential sale.

And it seems incredibly important that the club does change hands and that someone takes over with the best intentions of the club and also an ability to fund it.

Because last week, the sort of news, if you like, came in the form of a statement from the board of directors who are, you know, essentially calling out the ownership via official club channels, which is unusual and just kind of adds to the sense of

concern.

And they were saying that, you know, we can't sign any players in January to help with our survival bid.

I think they're five points from safety at the moment.

We can't add to Derek Adams' squad because Bond Group investments haven't proven sufficiency or source of funding to the end of the season to the EFL, and there are very strict rules that the EFL put in place in order to try and avoid catastrophic situations.

It's very important that the owners do provide that.

So if they don't, that they have restrictions placed on them when it comes to recruitment.

So it's kind of like this very large existential issue, which comes with a huge amount of frustration.

Essentially, the fan base and the board of directors saying, why have you not sold this club yet?

What is stopping you from doing so?

Why haven't you,

you know, why is it that prospective owners seem to find it so difficult to get a deal done?

And they don't really feel like the club can move forward in any sense until that happens.

So

it's not the only troubling ownership situation in the EFL at the moment.

Reading, obviously, in League One,

is absolutely that as well.

Probably a bit less, it's a bit harder for Morecambe to kind of get the get the noise out there, I think, about this.

They're a much smaller club with a much smaller fan base.

So I think it's important that we talk about these things on shows such as this.

And yeah, if anyone's listening that might be a viable prospective buyer of Morecambe FC, you know, they'd need exactly that.

We've talked quite a lot, haven't we, about this regulator and things like that?

And I know, Sally, obviously, you've spoken very passionately about your club and what happened with that.

But I mean, Barry, I don't know,

is that going to actually prevent these situations from happening, do we think?

We don't really know what it's going to look like, do we?

It's so hard to say, Robin, because

all these amendments are being added on uh the tories are trying to kick it into the long grass

so i i just can't answer your question i don't know ideally it would prevent these kind of things happening but only time will tell it's not a very satisfactory answer but it's the only one i have maybe one of the the boys have a better one well i think it's just it's very difficult i i am not an expert on all things financial or

in terms of business and limited companies and stuff.

But as much as we know, football clubs aren't like normal businesses.

I think it's quite difficult to guard against a situation, for example, where an ownership group that's owned a club for six years and therefore provided proof of funding upon purchase and funded the club for a few years at the point where they start to find it more difficult and stop providing that funding.

I don't really know what recourse you have to remove a club from someone that legally owns the club.

Clearly, that's where you need a sale and it takes two to tango.

You need both viable prospective buyers and they need to be fit and proper, of course, and you need the people who are incumbent and need to sell the club, as we see it, to play ball on that front as well.

And so it's just, I think it creates situations that

there's just a lot of awkwardness, a lot of friction in terms of the transaction.

And I don't know exactly what either the EFL or an independent regulator is likely to be able to do legally to force changes such as this.

Well, on that cheery note, we'll send you on your way, pod fans.

That's all for today.

Thank you so much, Barry.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Ali.

Thank you very much.

Cheers, Sanny.

No worries.

Anything.

Today gets better than yesterday.

We'll be back on Thursday to try and unpack the 18 Champions League games taking place on Wednesday night.

Yeah, look forward to that, Barry.

Rest up, do your stretches.

We'll be back on Thursday.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove, and our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.