Carabao Cup quarter-finals and what’s next for Rashford: Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Arsenal, Liverpool, and Newcastle make it into what's looking like quite an interesting Carabao Cup semi-final draw.

A good night for Gabriel Jesus, a hat-trick for Mikel Arteta's men.

After he brought on the big guns, not such a good night for Raheem Sterling.

We saw some great Sandro Tenale, two lovely finishes.

He must be wearing predators.

And then Liverpool, two early goals enough to get past Southampton, who had a creditable second half for what it's worth.

Lots of questions about no VAR.

And we'll do a mini-preview of Spurs Man United, which has probably happened for lots of you.

Speaking of Manchester United, Marcus Rashford said he's ready for a new challenge.

We'll look ahead to the Premier League games.

Now we expect Nan City to lose at Aston Villa.

Will they turn up and give us us an early 2024 city performance?

We'll find out what the panel know about New Wolves boss Vito Pereira.

And then there's the all-new Super League, Garris Southgate's Desert Island Disc Choices and Christmas Lights.

All that plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenny, welcome.

Hi, Max.

Hello, Johnny Lou.

Hello.

And Sam Dalling, hello.

Hello, Max.

Let's start at the Emirates then, the Carabao Cup quarterfinal.

Where is the Carabao box, Barry?

Is it dead?

The Carabao box is in my locker in Guardian Towers.

I have no idea whether it's still alive and functioning or not.

There's no...

I say locker.

It's not actually locked.

So some opportunists may have made off with it.

But I will be in the office later.

this afternoon so i will have a look and keep you posted get it ready for the semi-finals It could be worth something on Antiques Roadshow in a hundred years.

So, anyway, Arsenal 3, Crystal Palace 2.

Johnny, this game had a bit of jeopardy, didn't it?

You know, Palace ahead at half-time, and you started to think, well, maybe could they just hang on a sort of backs against the wall job?

And then Arsenal put on their good players, and that was it.

Yeah, I mean, that was basically it.

I think the early goal introduced a little, I mean, it changed the energy.

I think the Emirates can sometimes be a little bit non-committal when it comes to games like this.

Are we going to be bothered?

And the early goal sort of makes everyone realize, okay, this is actually a thing.

So Arsenal sort of toil a bit for the first half.

Palace played pretty well, actually.

Eza keeps shooting from 40 yards for some reason.

And then, yeah, and then Arsenal just at the start of the second half, Arsenal literally just move into another gear, as we've seen them do so many times this season.

They bring on Saliba, they bring on Odegaard, and they bring on Saka later.

It's not, you know, it wasn't straightforward.

And I think the fact that Nketiah comes on and then

gets a constellation for Palace, I think that shows that it wasn't one-way traffic in that second half.

But there was enough there for Arsenal.

I think, you know, they always just about had enough.

And obviously a hat-trick for Jesus as well, which

was his first

goal/slash goals at the Emirates for over a year.

So does that mean now, Barry, that now he's, you know, the floodgates have opened.

Timo Vernon's floodgates have opened, but sadly for Gabrielle Jesus.

Does that mean Arsenal don't need a striker?

How much should we read into him scoring a hat-trick in the Carabao Cup quarter-final?

I think it's a huge hat-trick for him on a personal level and for Arsenal generally because he's looked dreadful on the rare occasions he gets on the field.

He'd scored one goal in, I think, 44 previous appearances before last night, but he didn't show that he was lacking in confidence um i thought his first goal was absolutely fantastic he rode a challenge from trevor chalaba and then with uh

dean henderson coming out at him he he still had the composure to lift it over him perfectly he could have got clattered by either player and

i don't think i'm being unfair in saying that jesus isn't the most courageous forward in the world.

I've seen him duck out at challenges before.

For Arsenal fans, it's wonderful to see him score a hat-trick because they are light up front, and they've too many forward players who aren't delivering at the minute.

Martinelli, Havertz,

Raheem Sterling got a full game or didn't get a full game last night, but he started and he didn't do himself any favours.

But Jesus certainly did.

And we got a sighting of the lesser-spotted Kieran Tierney, who has that was his first appearance for Arsenal.

I thought he played well.

He went off after an hour and was just knackered, understandably.

So good to see him back as well.

And I think if I was an Arsenal fan, I'd be delighted with this win and slightly infuriated because we saw once again how wholly reliant they are on Martin Odegaard.

And they're just one bad challenge, or torn hamstring, or tumble down the stairs away from having their season completely derailed in his absence.

Um, because he, when he came on, the game changed, yeah, no two ways about it.

But I always find this argument about oh, I'll bet

what would they be without their best player?

It's like when they say, Oh, oh, if it wasn't for the goalkeeper, uh, they might not have gotten even though the goalkeeper was there, and that is his job.

And Martin Odegaard is there to be that star player.

So, yes, he might not be there every week,

unless in the current financial world, I think it is very different, very difficult for sides to have anyone that's anywhere near like for like.

It's like sort of replacing LeBron James or something in basketball.

Like they're there.

You just have to almost build as if they're going to be there.

almost every week.

It's just, they pick up an injury.

It can come, as Manchester City have seen, it can completely derail your season.

I think Palace will be just a bit disappointed with that, by the way.

I reckon they'd have looked at that Arsenal back four at the start in the nick there having gone to Brighton, having picked up, and thought, oh, there's a real chance for us to get through to a cup semi-final.

And as someone with a little

vested interest in that cup, you're always looking around after

when the big four side is going to get knocked out.

Come on, Palace.

Didn't quite happen for them.

Yeah, from a Spurs point of view, it was a disappointing evening.

I said, Mind you, they probably won't have to worry

after the next game.

That Sterling miss,

Johnny, just it felt so Sterling in almost every way, didn't it?

Yeah, I didn't quite realise what had happened.

So

it was a great save for a start.

I think he's about, what, six yards out?

And then he has another go with the goalie now totally out of position, sprawled, and he hits the bar.

We've all seen this from Sterling.

You know, he's one of those forwards that

he's...

Obviously, we know what he can do, but we know what he can't.

We've seen him miss those chances for Liverpool, for City, for Chelsea, for England.

He's just a fairly awkward finisher at times.

And

that is going to be a problem because, like Barry says, you know, Arsenal, Arsenal's problem this season is that they have been, I think, over-reliant on the likes of Saka and the centre-halves that set pieces for goals.

And there's going to come a point in the season, especially if they progress in all competitions, when they're going to need other players to step up.

You know, your Trossards and your Martinellis.

And yeah, players like Sterling are going to have a role to play.

I didn't think it was terrible.

I just just thought

he didn't advance his case to start at all.

If you're Arteta, you're not watching that performance.

You're not thinking he has made himself,

you know, he's advanced his case to be in the starting 11.

And that's the shame, I think.

He hasn't given Arteta a headache.

And, you know,

Arteta wants a headache.

That's what he wants to have.

Yeah, and Sterling's been more of a placebo.

Sterling's been

like a supermarket-owned brand.

He's very much

the paracetamol of

attacking wide men.

Carl says, question to Barry, would Beaver have said that Nketiah header?

That feels very harsh on David Rayer to me, Barry.

I mean, unless, of course, Beaver's just an amazing Goldman brother.

It was a great header.

I don't think Beaver is.

I thought it was a brilliant header.

And I never even crossed my mind that Ray was at fault until that listener.

brought it up but no i think creditwear is due is a wonderful header from inketia um

And

it was too little, too late for him against his former club.

But that's only his second goal, I think, for Palace.

They both come in the Carabao Cup.

You know, hopefully he can kick on a bit.

I never particularly rated him when he was at Arsenal, but this doesn't mean he's not a good player.

One thing I noticed in this game, and I wonder if teams will do this.

going forward, an expression I hate, but Monaco did this against Arsenal last week in the Champions League, and Palace did it again.

Whenever Arsenal got a corner, or in one instance, a free kick that might as well have been a corner, they put three men on the halfway line, which meant Arsenal had to have three men on the halfway line as well, which meant they couldn't have as many bodies in the box as they like when they're doing their performative corners.

And it seems to work

because it gives the goalkeeper more room to operate.

There's less players to worry about marking or, you know, keep an eye on the run.

So I think if

more teams do this, then what's his name?

Mr.

Jover is going to have to go back to his drawing board

over Christmas.

Can you take that?

I mean, that's really interesting.

I didn't notice that.

How far can you extend that?

Can you put six players?

It's sort of a game of bluff, isn't it?

You just put all your players on the halfway line except except the keeper.

Yeah, and still hope that he swings it in and doesn't play a short pass.

Having said that, Leandro Trosser almost stored directly from a corner, which was cleared off the line by

who was it?

Jefferson Lerma, I think.

It's a question from Putes, who's a Palace fan.

And actually, this stretches to all these three games, Sam.

You know, should we have VAR in the Caribou Cup?

And he's obviously talking about Jesus' second goal, which was offside.

There's the moment in the Newcastle game where it's Debravka was playing, wasn't he sort of has a little tap at johan vissa and then there was the moment in the southampton game where quantza is pretty untidy with fernandez i couldn't really work out if i thought it was a foul or not so the question is i think it was a foul but it was outside the penalty area yeah so it would have been a straight it would have been a straight red anyway sam the question is should we have obviously now when a decision goes against you in this you're like we must have var it's a lovely way of describing it by the way a little bit untidy i hope that's how arnie slot put his arm round Darak Wanza on the way off the machine.

That was a little bit untidy.

Can we tidy up next time?

It's an emphatic no for me.

It's just great watching football without VAR.

See, being able to look at a referee, and I know this goes against the whole, oh, yeah, but we want the right decision.

And yes, the Jesus goal is offside.

But it's a wonderful feeling being in a football ground, something happening.

Doing the old look across at the referee, look across at the assistant referee.

Okay, they haven't given anything or they have given something and we know that's going to be finite.

so maybe that is a slightly

um i don't know maybe because it hasn't affected my team in in this latest round i i can say that maybe i'd be a hypocrite and i would have a completely different view had it gone against me but i just love watching football without var there's this increasing vogue for um restaurants where you have to cook your own food have you noticed this right like tepeyaki korean barbecue where they basically give you like raw things and you have to and and i i i don't i don't like that i think like you're you're a restaurant, you should be cooking the food for me.

And I found this last night.

I just realized the amount of labor that I do during a football game, staring at replays and freeze frames, going, is he offside?

That's slightly offside, isn't it?

Is that an offside?

And just like, poor, and I realize I'm not supposed to be doing this labor.

There should be an expert that we delegate this stuff to who makes the call.

And so I don't have to worry about it.

I think

seeing a game without VAR just makes me realize how much time we spend agonising over really quite minute and often really quite minuscule and irrelevant decisions that we should be delegating to people who know what

they're doing with it.

That's what I think.

Yeah, I mean, I suppose the counter-argument, and I don't disagree with you, is none of these decisions are minuscule, Barry.

In the case of the game state, if we're using phrases we hate,

like they could all have affected the game.

Yeah.

I'm quite happy not to have VAR, but I get that people whose teams are affected by these decisions, say the offside Jesus goal or the

free kick Southampton didn't get.

I get why they are frustrated, but it's

you could have had VAR in all the games last night because there are only Premier League teams left in the competition, but

I don't care particularly one way or the other.

Bjorn says, 60 minutes on that tenale goal and technique from today's game.

Too much, 50 minutes.

Yeah, Newcastle 3, Brentford, one.

Sam, you were there.

And we saw, we haven't seen a lot of tenale for obvious reasons.

And it was nice to see him score two lovely goals.

Yeah, Eddie said Powell said afterwards that it was a weird, he started an answer to a question.

He got a lot of tenale questions last night.

He said, oh, you know, it's nice when a new signing, it takes a little bit of time for a new signing to bed in.

And he had to then caveat that.

So, look, I know he's not a new signing, but he's not played much football.

They were lovely strikes.

It's the sort of night that when you're spending 10-12 months of largely in the winter in a gym on your own, staring longingly out of a training ground window at your pals kicking a football around, and you're doing a lot of fitness work, or you're playing the games, the training games, and you can't, you know, you can't play.

It's the sort of night you dream of.

So, it was lovely for him.

He's

already got this huge love and support from the Newcastle fan base.

It irks me that that they sing Sandro Oleo Leo Lei, which, I mean, he's Italian.

It just doesn't work for

football fans.

It sounds good, so it's fine.

He, yeah, he scored a couple of wonderful goals.

He's moved the last couple of games.

He's moved him to playing as a number six.

Bruno Jimirez has played that for a couple of years.

And Juimirez has moved further forward.

And Tonani just looks like he can control a game.

from there.

It annoyed Newcastle fans when he, against Liverpool, he had a very good game.

Then Howe rotated him out or dropped to left him out he's brought him back I think that is his position so ironically he hasn't been scoring because that was his first goal since his debut against Aston Villa last year he hasn't been scoring from a number eight position stick him at six he scores two I mean the second one from the corner, how he's got that much room.

I think it's because Joan.

I know it's amazing.

You can't quite see it on screen, but I think Wisser and Joe Linton are having a proper grappling, one of those like wrestling matches off screen, which frees up the space.

But yeah, how he's left like that, I don't know.

But it's a very good finish, actually even though he's all alone yeah i mean i i you're right there's space there and the brentford players were complaining that whisser was being blocked but joe linton and whisper you know they were marking each other standard tony was still completely unmarked from this very floated corner i'd seen rumors then that tenali might be off is that just nonsense i don't think that came from here but how was sort of asked a little long a a version of that and he said look there's that's never been uh from sandro but there's a big campaign in italy because they're building their national side around him he's played far more minutes for Italy, I think, maybe until recent weeks.

He goes off and plays two sets of 90 minutes for Italy, all three of those international breaks almost.

So there was a campaign to take him back.

From a Newcastle perspective, they'll be really hoping that he doesn't go.

I remember Howell saying he fell in love with him the first time he saw him.

You can see why.

It's just his...

The way he can run a game, the crispness of passing, he doesn't do anything extra.

Guimarez is one of these players that might try something that really isn't necessary.

Sometimes Sometimes you think, oh, pass the ball, but Tenale doesn't try that.

And it was a good night for Newcastle.

It didn't feel like a cup quarter final.

I think that's in a good way.

A couple of years ago, they played against Leicester, and it was the first cup quarter final they've been in.

And it felt like a really emotional, it almost felt like a semi.

And Eddie Howell said that afterwards.

Last night was much more clinical, much more controlled.

And in the press room,

They've still got the booth from the Champions League, the UEFA interpreter booth.

And I don't know if they're leaving that there in Eddie Howell's, like,

his peripheral vision, because that's what you could have if you win this competition back in the conference league.

And there were some journalists who were thinking about asking Eddie Howe if that was a motivator, but everyone bowled it.

And, Sam, on Eddie Howe, like, we've talked a lot about the inconsistency of Newcastle.

Are the fans still behind him?

Are the clubs still behind him?

What's your vibe?

It feels like the noise is very much that the club are still behind him.

There have been

in football, everything, people seem to make it out as you have to have this either strong opinion at one end of the spectrum or strong at the other.

So you're either how in or you're a how hater and you and you want him out.

And actually, I think there's a little bit more nuance than that.

And some fans have been asking perfectly valid questions about that inconsistency because he's had a they're not

probably where they should be.

They're probably only the sixth, seventh, eighth best.

squad in the country

but

they've i think away from home they've only been to Chelsea of the top side, so they've still got so they were thinking they'd be doing better, and they haven't had the Champions League.

And okay, they haven't invested in the summer.

But you look at six, seven, or eight of those players, you think they really should be doing better.

It's those games that the Leicester game really helps him on Saturday winning 4-0 because that was the sort of game a lot of Newcastle fans were like, well, we wouldn't be surprised if we'd get something against Liverpool.

It's the Leicester one we're more likely to struggle in.

And so he can win those kind of games.

Then suddenly it changes a little bit.

Fraser says, is Ethan Pinnock's hamstring pool pool anything to do with Christmas dinner at the Glendenning residence in a week's time?

Can you confirm, Barry, whether Ethan Pinnock will be joining you for Christmas dinner?

What a Christmas dinner that would be.

It would be remarkable.

I'm not sure what Ethan would make of sitting down to...

I'm going to say probably goose with

me, Mammy Glendenning and Uncle Noel.

It won't be the most riotous Christmas dinner he's ever had.

You know, no kids there running around, which I think they're a prerequisite for any good Christmas.

No,

there is an open invitation.

If he'd like to join us, he's more than welcome.

But

if I was you, Ethan, I'd probably go somewhere else.

Do you know when you know, I don't know, I use this as an example because the first I can think of, and we'll talk about him in a bit.

You know, Marcus Rashford went to that nightclub in Belfast, and everyone's, you know, was angry with him.

You know, players going, well, the thought that Ethan Pinnock would get in trouble from Brentford because he'd gone for Christmas dinner at Mama Glendenning's house.

It's just too joyous to consider.

Anyway, Liverpool 1-2-1 at Southampton.

What do you make of this one, Johnny?

I feared.

I feared for Southampton.

I really did at some point.

Yeah, you really did.

Yeah.

They had

Simon Rusk, I think their caretaker manager.

It's a real caretaker manager's name, Simon Rusk.

It really is.

He's the regional manager of some kind of...

Yeah, 300 games from Mansfield is my guess.

Yeah, that kind of thing.

And Liverpool were obviously all over them.

Javi Elliott had a great game.

Darwin Nunes was sort of hurrumping around the place, sort of steam pouring out of his nose.

But then, look, a weird thing happens.

You know,

the crowd sort of got behind them.

They created a few chances.

Cameron Archer

pulled a goal back.

And I think...

I don't think anyone expected them to progress.

I don't think anyone expected them to win.

But

there was clearly

a resolve and an energy there that Whoever, you know, the next Southampton manager is, whoever they appoint, there is something there to build on.

Obviously, you know, we know about the weaknesses in their squad, but this is a fan base that haven't totally given up on the club.

These are players that have totally given up on this season.

And I think the way they rallied will actually be quite encouraging.

I didn't notice, did anyone notice, did they

get it launched at all?

Like, did we see the shackles were off?

That contentious decision right at the end, where Kwanzaa brought down Mateus Fernandez.

Fernandez was running on to a ball launched from Alex McCarthy.

So that wouldn't have happened on

what's his name's watch?

Russell Martin's watch.

They were getting it launched quite a bit in the first half as well.

They were clearly trying to release it earlier.

So funny, isn't it?

The shackles are off.

They must have been just so excited just to be able to kick it a long way.

Just thinking, we can do this.

I can absolutely just twat it.

I'm good at this.

I'm good at kicking balls across the pitch.

finally i can let go and just hammer the thing i think i think what's quite interesting sam about the semi-finalists is is

perhaps absolute desperation is pushing it for all five teams left in if we include spurs and man united but like newcastle and spurs absolutely desperate to win something even if you know and says you know that's not the bill and end all look mate Liverpool United have new managers, of course.

And Arsenal, you know, Arteta's got one trophy.

And he was quite pointed in a press conference saying, actually, I've got three.

I've won two Charity Shields.

And everyone's like, like yeah come on mate so like the fact is you've got these teams that are just i think all that's how stupid everyone in the semi-final wants to win a cup but like they really want it we were trying to work out like who do you want as you inevitably do after a quarterfinal or any round you go right which team do you fancy over two legs in the semi-finals and you have to you look at all the nuances of oh who's got champions league oh yeah but liverpool have already qualified so they might i mean they played a pretty weak relative in inverted commerce weak side um but it is i mean it's a

from a competition that teams pay lip service to for a while it suddenly is it happens every year or semi-final time okay it it becomes pretty serious and i was a bit surprised

off track a little bit but brent like brentford didn't go full strength last night at some ampton did brentford left that left out in burmo and i know frank

i i heard that he asked they've got a game saturday three o'clock and they couldn't fly home last night so they have to travel today and i think he was pretty annoyed by that in terms of like player recovery yeah they'd look they'd rather have a late, get home late, be in their own bed.

Surely there's a sleeper.

Surely there's the sleeper from Newcastle, isn't there?

I think so, wouldn't it?

And I know people say, oh, it sounds like a pretty meek excuse.

I don't know how I feel about it.

But I also feel, come on, Thomas, like you're not going down.

You're having a really good season.

Yes, I know you're the best team in the world at home.

And maybe you must beat Nottingham Forest to preserve that record.

But it's a cup quarterfinal.

You've just beaten Newcastle a couple of weeks ago.

They don't really know how to deal with Wormo.

If I was a Brentford fan and had gone up for that, and I know he argues, well, a couple of defensive mistakes, otherwise, the game plan was pretty good.

It would have been 2-1 going into the last five minutes.

As a fan, do you really want to hear your manager say, Oh, well, if we were 2-1 down, we have five minutes to go, you know, the game plan is working.

We might have snuck an equalizer and gone on pens.

Um, so yeah, I was a bit disappointed with that from Frank.

I have a slight, slight issue with this idea that it's like an easy cup to win, that teams of Brentford size or smaller teams should have a go at it.

If you look at the clubs clubs that have won it over the last 10 years,

it's just Manchester Cities and Liverpool

and Manchester United's,

you can have a really good go at this, like Spurs have done on multiple occasions, but the days when a Birmingham City or a Leicester or a Swansea would triumph,

it's not a realistic aim these days.

Obviously, you know, it's a competition that you all love to win, but now we're in the era of economic stratification where clubs like City and Arsenal can basically play, and and Liverpool can basically play the kids and still give most mid-table Premier League clubs a very decent game.

It does make

these cups much harder to win.

So I do have a certain sympathy for mid-table managers who think, okay, well, we could have a proper go at this and still get beaten by the kids

from some big club.

Yeah, I mean, in the Palace Arsenal game, and they have to play each other again on Saturday in the league at Selhurst Park.

While the game was still 1-1

with an hour gone, Oliver Glasner took off Ebriches and Matetta, which I thought was a little odd.

It was more or less, right, we've had a goal, we're not going to win, and I'm going to keep these guys, give them a bit of a rest before Saturday.

Now, Palace are obviously still in relegation trouble, but I don't think they really are.

There's quite a few teams worse than them in this league.

All right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll do a Premier League preview.

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Barry's here too.

Hello.

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We're here.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So, Premier League this weekend.

Let's start talking about Manchester United.

They played Bournemouth on Sunday at 2 o'clock.

Some more Marcus Rashford chat.

He did an interview with Henry Winter for his sub-stack, I believe.

I've yet to click on a sub-stack, but you know, those who do, may you enjoy them.

He's ready ready for a new challenge, he says.

For me personally, I think I'm ready for a new challenge, and the next steps when I leave, it's going to be no hard feelings.

You're not going to have any negative comments from me about Manchester United.

That's me as a person.

If I know that a situation is already bad, I'm not going to make it worse.

I've seen how other players have left in the past.

I don't want to be that person.

When I leave, I'll make a statement, and it will be from me 100%.

I mean, Johnny, we talk about Marcus Rashford.

It's interesting.

There are so many players in the Premier League, and some people you talk about completely, and some you can go a whole season without mentioning their names and i mean there are a lot of reasons why rashford is is is

high up the news cycle and you know how much he's paid the club he's at what he's done off the pitch in a good way and you know the way his form has changed so much but do you think he should go oh yeah no no i mean i think he should have gone probably a year or two ago and united might actually regret not not cashing in on him in

I mean, politically, it would have been very hard for them to do, but I think you have to say now that the top of the market for Rashford was probably the summer of 23

after he had had his great World Cup, after he scored, I think, about 30 goals in all competitions in that season.

And yeah, he has not kicked on.

And I think there is an extent to which you can hold Rashford responsible for the decisions he's made.

But I think if you look at the meta of Manchester United in the last seven, eight years, what player of his talent quality has kicked on, improved?

Who has become world-class at United?

Who has made that leap?

I mean,

you can say Rashford had a bad attitude.

People say Rashford has a bad attitude, that he didn't want it enough, that he's not committed enough.

And, you know, you could probably make that case.

In the individual context, if you look at the broader context, did Lukaku have a bad attitude?

Did Pogba have a bad attitude?

Did Memphis Depay have a bad attitude?

Did Alexis Sanchez have a bad attitude?

Like, why have none of these, why did none of these players improve at United?

Why did none of those players become world class or stay world class?

And then, you know, you do have to look at the culture.

You have a player in Rashford who was basically asked to carry this club from like the age of about 21, 22, in a totally dysfunctional structure where they kept changing the manager every couple of years.

So a new manager would come in with different expectations of what he wanted to do or how he wanted to play.

He wasn't able to develop his game under a unified philosophy.

So yeah,

we can talk about the individual mistakes that he's made, but he was...

basically trapped in a failing system.

And I think it's just a real shame now because he's

27 and he's not going to get those years back.

No.

The interesting thing, Barry, is what, where does he, what's the level?

Because he's clearly got so much talent, you know, but you don't want to go, you know, West Ham doesn't work.

You know, there's a rung in between, right?

With the greatest respect to West Ham, I suspect Rashford would feel a move like that was beneath him at the moment.

But

when I saw his interview with Henry and I was wondering, well, where are you going to go exactly?

Because he's on serious wage, like 350 plus grand a week, I think.

And I'm not sure who would be prepared to pay that for a player of...

I'm not sure he's as good as

some think.

You know, his numbers aren't...

spectacular.

It's about a goal every three and a bit games.

Yeah, if he wants a move, good luck to him.

But I'm not sure who would be willing to pay those kind of wages i don't think anyone's necessarily willing or able are they in the premier league psg's touted a lot i mean i don't know the ins and outs of french football but it sounds like psg are in a have it have evolved they're in a different phase they've moved on from the we're gonna sign messi um bappe so it might be a a more sustainable environment there for him.

Somewhere feels like he wants to be loved, right?

I love Marcus Rashford.

The stuff he does off the pitch in terms of

how he acts as a human.

I'm not talking about knights out in Belfast, but these charitable stuff and the stuff he does in the community.

But it does feel like he needs to be loved.

He needs an arm around the shoulder.

I just don't think he necessarily fits into Amorim's, the style of play.

It's drastically different with wing backs.

And I'm not sure if he can see himself.

fitting in there.

I mean, it was just an odd interview to do, though.

Like, say, I'll make a statement and I'll leave.

So basically, you're you're making a pre-statement then.

I don't want to make a bad situation worse, but I'm going to talk about it unnecessarily with a journalist, which then makes it difficult for Amarin because he has to feel questions about it.

And he's actually very impressive the way he feels questions in the media.

I agree.

I saw him after the Manchester City game when they were talking about him being dropped.

And he says things.

I think he said about the rash for this interview.

He said, well, you know, if I say something about it, and turn it into a big thing, then you guys are going to turn it into a big headline.

Or I could just carry on preparing the game.

And he sort of says what he wants to say, but in a way of saying, Well, you know, I know what you guys in the press are like, so I'm not going to give you that, but I'm still going to have my say.

He's really impressive, and but it must be annoying him, this little stuff, and the team leaks things and bits like that.

It's just not what he needs because he's got a massive job to do.

Team leaks, not quite as big as WikiLeaks, I guess, but you know, it's sort of on the

path, isn't it?

As we mentioned, Johnny, Spurs are home to Man United tonight in the Carabao, then they're home to Liverpool on Sunday.

I'd like an Johnny Lou Ange update, please.

How pivotal are are these?

I mean, you know, two wins and everything's amazing, two defeats, and it's terrible, is how I would sum it up.

Yeah, and obviously they're not where they want to be in the table.

And Ostakoglu has been there for about 18 months now.

And, you know, there comes a point in every in the life of every Spurs manager where you basically have a choice, don't you?

You have a choice to really sort of commit, emotionally commit to the project.

And

or you can basically go down the route of what's my next, what's my exit strategy going to be and and i think every spurs manager realizes after a while this lot are a bunch of losers they've not won anything and like conte conte reached reached that point mourinho reached that point uh and and i think and just is kind of at the he's at the event horizon of that point where he's thinking they are kind of they're just a bunch of losers aren't they and so am i gonna am i really gonna hitch my wagon to this to this runaway loser train for the next 18 months or am i gonna and i'm you know he's always had an eye on them on the main chance he's always had an eye on his next role and and and projecting himself in a way that is going to ensure himself uh a decent slew of offers when the time comes i think he's at that point now does does he does he really commit to the project or is he going to say well you know you're on your own because i think i think a lot he will a lot of fans will go with him

for as far as the season goes that there is a kind of a cult-like vibe to him but i i don't know whether he really really wants to commit to the project yeah i don't know maybe i've just been brainwashed too much that i think he might be the guy who wants to commit but it isn't the end result the same like like to get out you've got to do well to commit you've got to do well like it shouldn't make any difference to what he's trying to do yeah but if you start getting it if you get your excuses in now and go like okay well you know there's obviously a huge amount like a huge amount of the fan base that will blame levy for everything and and fair enough levy has as

been one of the major problems as well.

You can say, oh, the players aren't doing it.

You know, you could even go full content and go, like, the whole culture of the club

is geared around losing.

I think there are lots of

PR strategies that will ensure that whatever happens,

it's not on you as much as it might be at a different club.

One of his strategies seems to be he's kind of picked up on Gary O'Neill and Russell Martin and using them as vessels by which to make his point.

Like he's living vicariously through Russell Martin and saying, well, you know,

these are outstanding young managers, but that's the modern game.

Managers at the top level now, they're at the start of of their careers.

You're going to have 20 clubs.

It's going to be two or three years.

So he's just teasing that idea that, okay, maybe time might be up.

And maybe that's just the thing.

That is just modern management.

Which manager would you like to live vicariously through?

Not a question I've pondered at great length.

Angelotti, surely.

It's Anchilotti.

I mean, the answer's always Dice, isn't it?

Sean Dice,

Sean Dice, yeah.

I mean, he seems to have

quite good fun.

He always manages to do just enough and then in his downtime, I mean I don't want to go to Glastonbury.

No.

And Sean Dice goes to Glastonbury, doesn't he?

And other festivals.

Do you want to be best friends with Ian Wone?

Not especially.

I mean I met Ian Wone's wife many years ago.

She was a very nice lady, Kelly, an American girl.

But yeah,

I'll be Sean Dice as long as I don't have to go to Glastonbury.

And if I do have to go to Glastonbury, I want to stay in a yurt.

Okay, noted.

With a toilet and a shower.

Of course.

Ask the Miller Man City.

Is this the game, Sam, where we, because we all expect now City to lose, that they'll turn it around and win?

They'll be hoping so, but Pep looked broken after that Manchester Derby.

It wasn't just what he said, but it was the way he said it.

I mean, it could have been...

mind games.

It could have been very cunning, but to hear Pep Guardiela say, you know, I am not good enough.

The press conference room almost everyone went well hang on a minute did he really just say that and it was the way he was sitting there and every question when they lost to Spurs a couple of weeks ago he came in still quite bullish and said well you know our weird this team has won all these titles and we've got history and injuries and things like that again in the Manchester Derby just went well

yeah but those things don't really count I don't have any answers I don't know what we're going to do so by that measure by the way football works yes they'll be absolutely stunning and go and beat Aston Villa 5-0 but they just they weren't very good like the it was a really low quality game of football i know you chatted about this on earlier pods but the point is worth reinforcing like the the misplaced passes it usually when you're a team of some of the the lower side a fan of some of the lower sides in the premier league like so newcastle fan i can watch games and then i'll watch a rye game on a saturday and then i'll watch the super sunday game and you think oh you can see the difference in quality like this is just they're playing football on a different level and it wasn't like that for manchester city So

I don't know, they could keep losing.

Johnny, do you have a hot man to do take?

The interesting thing about this game is that because of their elimination from the Carabao, this is the first time that Guardiola will have got a full week

to work with the full squad since August.

Obviously, there's been international breaks, but basically, apart from that, it's been Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday, all the way through since August.

So, you know, that could work either way.

Either he's had

a chance to wine out a few things and sort things out on the training pitch, or

this increasingly tired and broken squad have had a full week with this increasingly weird and broken, disintegrating man, and he's just had a full week to make things even worse.

It could be either way.

The aura is gone, basically, hasn't it?

I mean, City played so much of City's aura was based on their aura,

if that makes any sense.

If you know what they can do, you stand off the middle of it.

You adjust your game plan based on the best city that you could possibly face.

And I think now a lot of teams are thinking, well, we're just going to run straight through them.

And that makes them more bold and more intrepid and more aggressive.

And so that has a kind of compounding effect on how they play.

Leicester City play Wolves.

Vito Pereira has agreed an 18-month deal to become Wolves' new manager.

Currently at Saudi Pro League Club, Al-Shabaab has previously managed Porto and Olympiacos.

I heard Tim Vickery on the Monday Nightclub telling a great story that he was the manager of Corinthians in Brazil, doing quite well.

And he left at the end of the season saying he had to go back and look after his mother-in-law, who was unwell.

And then a week later, he re-signed for Flamengo, like

another enormous team in Brazil.

I don't know if they're direct rivals, but clearly his mother-in-law suddenly just either got better or he was like, well, she's not well, but Flamengo's Flamengo.

They wanted him because he got through to the Club World Cup and felt they needed a European manager.

So sacked their current boss.

And then Pereira lost to Saudi side Al-Hilal in the semi-final.

That's all the info I've got, Barry.

I don't know if you can give me any more or how you feel about this appointment.

I'm totally indifferent to it.

Vittor Pereira, the first thing I did was check, I said, he has to have managed Watford at some point.

He looks and sounds like he must have managed Watford at that point where they were getting through, you know, 10 or 11 managers a season.

And he didn't, remarkably.

So, yeah, he's coming from al-shabab in saudi uh 830 grand release clause 56 years old he won back-to-back portuguese titles with porto in 2012 and 13

almost got the geverton job that time roberto martinez got it instead and he's well travelled he's worked in saudi greece turkey germany china brazil uh apparently has quite a temper on him is very single-minded and has gone on the record in the past saying he does not know how to manage spoiled players, rich kids that have never suffered and don't know how to suffer in life, which makes me think perhaps elite football management is not the job for him.

He'll love Craig Dawson then, won't he?

I mean, you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

And build the team around Craig Dawson.

Matthias Cooney has been charged with misconduct by the Football Association following Wolves' 2-1 defeat by Opster on Saturday.

Looking at three bespectacled men in front of me on the Zoom call, I presume they are, in favour of of the strongest punishment possible for him removing

exactly banned for life.

Any other games this weekend that

take your fancy that you'd like to talk about before we move on?

I suppose Everton Chelsea has the potential to be interesting.

Everton sort of did a number on Arsenal last weekend.

They'll presumably adopt much the same approach.

I thought they were a little bit lucky against Arsenal.

On another day, Arsenal probably would have notched up a routine win.

It's possible they could give Chelsea a good test of their metal.

It's also possible they could lose 4-0 and the game could be over by half-time.

If there is any kind of

slight doubts over Chelsea's title credentials, it's probably at the back, isn't it?

It's the centre-halves and it's the goalkeeper, and which is the team that...

that is really going to test you in that area at set pieces and crosses it's ever since so i think we're going to get a real

we're going to get a real idea of chelsea's defensive resolve against um against a peak daesh team yeah although

i mean everton can't score for toffee johnny can they i mean like i mean i just it just sounded wrong saying if anyone's going to prove whether

everton is not the team that i would expect any anyone to say i don't know but just it felt wrong but like you may be right uh we didn't discuss monday night football by the way which is a lifetime ago uh a fairly tame one-all draw between Bournemouth and West Ham and interestingly Barry in that moment where I can't remember what game it was no one had seen the Fulham win against Brentford.

I think this might be the first highlights that I have not seen this season.

I have absolutely no idea what happened in West Ham Bournemouth.

Forgive me.

Well I can tell you what happened.

Bournemouth absolutely battered West Ham for almost I think it was 87, 88 minutes, then went behind to

Lucas Paquetta penalty which was awarded for a Tyler Adams handball which would have driven you up the wall Max.

You love those kind of handballs.

So it looked like Bournemouth or West Ham were going to get a totally undeserved win and then Ines Unal

stepped up to score with an absolutely fantastic free kick from 30 yards I think in the 89th or 90th minute.

It ended up one old draw, but Bournemouth was vastly superior, struggled to make their superiority count.

I think they had twenty-nine shots.

Clivert, Semenyo, Billing, Ryan Christie and Evan Nielsen were all denied by Lucas Fabianski, or was it the other guy?

And yeah, Bournemouth should have won.

With the joy I get from watching the goal from Enesunal.

I think the outrage

at seeing the penalty awarded would would outweigh the joy.

Right.

Okay.

I'll leave it.

No one send send that to me, please.

All right, that'll do for part two.

Part three.

Good news.

The Super League might be back.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Nick Ames writing in the Guardian.

In what has become an unlikely Christmas tradition, A22 resurfaced on Tuesday with plans for a rebranded Unify League almost exactly a year after unveiling its previous concept for the breakaway project.

It believes that a refined product comprising four leagues and 96 clubs in its men's edition would negate previous objections and satisfy the criteria for formal permission to go ahead.

Should authorisation be granted, clubs could essentially be given a choice between competing in UEFA's existing European tournaments and jumping into the unknown with A22.

The Guardian understands UEFA is unlikely to respond in haste and that authorising the league, essentially calling AT22's bluff and determining how many clubs are ready to join its competition, will be an option under consideration.

Johnny, can you make any sense of what's happening, please?

Yeah, I mean, so

Nick, Nick, sat in with the

A22 guys this week, and basically

they're proposing a 96

club league.

Currently they have one club, so they're sort of, they're still 95 clubs short of this 96 club league.

But obviously those clubs are going to come when the money drops and when they have a kind of a financial settlement ready to go.

But then, as Nick discovered, the financial settlement is basically dependent on the caliber of clubs they can attract to the league.

So they're basically in a kind of a catch-winter too.

So they need the money to attract the clubs, but they need the clubs to attract the money.

So I think it's kind of a long and short way of saying it's not going to happen.

What it basically is,

it's basically like a legal challenge.

It's a test balloon to UEFA.

You might have seen the

European court case a few months ago, basically saying that in theory, UEFA has to allow

rival competitions that are, you know, to the Champions League, that it can't it can't just ban them on principle.

Um,

and this is basically a test of that legal uh framework.

So, is it an attempt to get to get UEFA around the table?

Is it an attempt to get the ECA on side?

It's it's probably all of these things, and also probably nothing.

Sure, but I mean, by the time

these people trying to do this, they'll be like old by the time it ever comes to fruition like what well

i i think they're they've stated that they want to get it up and running in about like 18 months which seems very ambitious but you yeah they have they have to say that for the investors but also it's it's just bollocks but i think part of their problem is um

the front man for a22 is this former uh TV executive from Germany.

I think he's Reinhardt something or other.

I can't remember.

But

do you remember the episode of The Simpsons where this guy comes and tries to sell them the monorail?

Troy McClure.

Is it Troy McClure?

No, it's not Troy McClure.

He's this guy.

He's the monorail guy.

Unify.

Yeah, the monorail guy.

Unify.

And he's incredibly charismatic and puts on a great show and

gulls the people of Springfield into investing in this

ludicrous wheeze.

And A22's front man, he's not the monorail guy.

He's just,

he may well be a very nice man, but he's not charismatic in the slightest.

And he does these presentations from like a corridor in an office.

And he just sucks the will to live out.

He's not selling it well, put it that way.

Producer Joel writing, I helped put Astana and Heidenheim on the map.

Exactly.

That's when Homer just does the line of monorail, monorail, monorail, doll.

Um, yeah, but I mean, I but also like because it's a bit like we're all so we're all so lazy, right?

No one changes their bank, even if the other bank is much better option.

Everyone's just, even if, even if the new league is better, yeah, surely everyone's gonna go, oh, just this one is

I mean, I hate loads of things about this one, but it's still, I'm just in it, so like, I'll just stay in it.

Fascinating to see.

Yeah, I mean, I think that the thing that seems to be better, like, again, I'm going to sound like I just

I don't care whether this comes to fruition or not.

I honestly don't, but

but I'm old and cranky.

The one thing this does seem to have gone for is teams will earn their places in it on merit, you know, so it won't be a closed shop, which that seems to have been the big, one of the major sticking points with the last version of this.

But I described it in an article the other day as a third that won't flush.

And apparently one of the people Nick Ames was talking to saw that and took grave exception to it and now wants to speak to me to explain, well, to explain why it's actually a great idea.

At least I hope that's why he wants to speak to me.

I'm presuming he doesn't just want to punch me in the face.

He wants to explain why it is a turd that will flush, which is not exactly not what he wants.

No, I think he wants to explain why it's not a turd.

Anyway, I'm open to talking to him, but if you could just wait till after Christmas, mate.

An email that says, subject line, the turd that won't flush.

I'd enjoy that.

Kevin says, are you previewing Gareth's big Desert Island meeting with Lauren Laverne?

Will he let the hand break off or will it just be wall-to-wall cold play?

Yes, the news that Gareth Southgate will be on Desert Island discs.

You know, you did a very good joke in the WhatsApp group, Johnny, about, you know, you're allowed one luxury and he just wants to take Cole Palmer and Jack Grealish.

You just can't do that.

So sorry for stealing that joke if you were planning to do it again.

What are we hoping for, Sam?

Again, it's a question I haven't pondered too much in my life.

I would love him to surprise us.

I would love him to be into something we didn't expect, a bit of heavy deaf metal or something.

Music, I'm not good on music.

All right.

Are you the next Jonathan Wilson?

I mean, that sounds like you're ahead of Wilson.

I don't mind cold play.

I think they get too much hate.

They do a good gig.

It looks like a great show.

I've always wanted to go.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I I think, yeah, quite like them.

Don't, just, don't have ill will.

Johnny, are you looking forward to tuning in?

Yeah, I mean, it's quite, I mean, it's quite an interesting insight.

But it does require, like, Desert Island, it's just a great format.

That's why it's lasted so long, because

it sort of delves into the psyche of its interviewees through.

completely, you know, oh, I'm not really talking about my childhood.

We're not really talking about my complicated relationship with my parents.

I'm actually just talking about a book or a song.

And it's just a great way into, but you do have to kind of need the interviewee to want to play ball.

And I don't know, Southgate's always, he's always on these days, isn't he?

You never find Southgate in an unguarded moment.

He's always just

measuring his words way too finely.

I think, obviously,

he's going to get asked where he's going to go next and he won't really have an answer.

But whatever non-anter he gives will be passed and spun into some, you know, Southgate does not rule out club management next.

I don't actually think he'll take a big club job.

I think he'll probably end up in some sort of cinecule.

He'll be like Chef de Mission for Team GB's Olympic team or something.

He'll take on one of those, what I call a cake-eating role.

In many ways, the best thing he could do would just be to say, My first song is the first song on the album Parachutes by Coldplay.

My second song is the second song from the album Parachute.

You'd have to give him credit.

You'd have to say, Fair play.

That's exactly what the people exist.

That's the best album.

Parachutes was really good.

I don't the latest stuff I don't really care for.

I think they've basically just tried to triangulate whatever's the most popular thing in the world and tried to be that.

But, you know, the first few albums are quite good, I thought.

Yeah.

Any strong thoughts, Barry?

Not really, no.

I'd be interested to see what his luxury item in his book are.

It would probably be like a big...

coaching manual.

I just hope it's not fucking inverting the pyramid.

Possibly we'll never hear the end of of it although i'm not sure how wilson would feel about that no i don't think he'll take a football i think he'll have other interests i think he might be more interesting than we all think he is you know not in like a kinky not in a

kinky way i do like desert island is it's a great treasure trove of of podcasts there like going back decades if if you're ever stuck for something to listen to while out walking or driving yeah if you don't want to listen to this uh we should do a section recommending other podcasts shouldn't we?

Nick says, hello all.

Very Merry Christmas to you.

I worked at Sky during the Soccer Saturday Glory Years in entertainment presentation, to be precise.

And one year, we convinced Jamie Redknapp to come and turn on the Christmas lights on our floor.

They weren't very impressive, to be fair, but Jamie gave it all the pomp and circumstance it didn't deserve.

I'm not sure if Max was even approached.

So I guess my question is, have any of the panel ever got to switch on Christmas lights yet?

If not, please make a pitch for your dream lighting gig.

Thanks for another wonderful year.

I'm doing my best to spread the word in california about you thanks nick thank you nick surely burr surely the mayor of burr has got in touch barry no no uh

i i'm not good enough at hurling to uh do the burr lights but that they would be my lights of choice if if i had an option

is it too it's probably it's probably happened this year isn't it let's start a campaign for 2025 the campaign for barry to do the burr lights it begins here yeah worryingly i don't think anyone in burr knows who i am anymore because i've been away so long so that doesn't matter we can look we can we've got a year to work on a marketing strategy uh you know and i will not rest until barry has to go 10 because you have to really be you know you have to cheat actually you'd absolutely hate it now i really

you know because you'd have to be like you'd have to good evening burr i can't hear you good evening burr you know oh that would be tremendous and a big countdown oh would you have to shout out loudly in burr i mean you'd probably just have to speak in your normal voice wouldn't you people would gather in a horseshoe shape around you and that that's the that's the whole town i'm not sure there's even a an actual ceremony i think you know some bloke from the council might just string them all up and then just flick a switch to to no pomp and ceremony whatsoever why don't we make it football weekly could get a whole we could do a you know the homecoming live show

you know on early december it sounds like a great idea it's not just me trying to get away from what will be two children.

There is a suitable venue in Borough for a football weekly.

Very central location.

People could come or not come from far and wide.

I think it's a 450-seater venue, which is directly across the street from my house.

Everyone back to yours, free house.

Amazing.

Everyone back to Mammy Glenn Dennings for

post-show beverages.

Barry, when people go away from home, they go and live in London and their accent changes.

When you go back, do they go, oh, who's this posh man living in South London?

No, no, my accent hasn't changed at all.

So,

and if it did, I would not go down well, I can tell you.

They do frown upon you wearing a top hat and tails, don't they?

And a monocle.

According to the Offley Express, they were turned on by Santa on the 13th of November.

So you

stiff competition.

Let's get Barry dressed as Santa next year

do the Burr Lights, and then we'll do a live show at Burr Town Hall and then all back to Mama Glenn Dennings, along with Ethan Pinnock, who will be there, of course.

Barry and Ethan Pinnock doing the lights.

Okay, let's make it happen.

Anyway, feels like we've done enough, doesn't it?

That'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Sam.

Thanks, Max.

You're welcome.

Thanks, Johnny.

Thank you.

Cheers, paz.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

We'll be back on Monday.

This is The Guardian.