Big wins for Wales and Scotland in the Nations League – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

First off, a surprising one-year contract extension for Pep Guardiola.

Not sure any of us saw this coming.

Does he know something we don't about the charges?

Or has he signed up regardless of whether it's Premier League or Vanarama next year?

And then on to a great international break for the home nations.

Promotion for Wales, an unbeaten campaign, and a 4-1 hammering of Iceland while Turkey lose surprisingly in Montenegro, which means Wales will be in the top tier next time around.

A last-minute header from Andy Robertson means Scotland rescue themselves and now have a playoff to stay in the top division.

Promotion two for Northern Ireland, despite giving up a 2-0 lead in Luxembourg.

And then to the big stuff, promotion for the world-ranked bottom side, San Marino.

Probably makes the entire Nations League worth it by itself.

The first time they'd ever scored three goals away from home, two in Lichtenstein.

Also, today, Paul Watson takes us to Vanuatu and back.

Ian Holloway on Swindon's training ground being haunted.

Your questions?

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, for the duration, Barry Glendenny, welcome.

Hello, yes.

And Paul Watson, hello.

Hi, Max.

And we will be joined by various luminaries, Ben Fisher, Ewan Murray, and a pre-recorded Ellis James in just a second.

But we'll start with Pep Guadiola's one-year extension.

We'll do more on this tomorrow when we look ahead to the Premier League Games.

But it is huge news.

City are apparently refusing to comment, unless they've commented since I wrote this down, on a story that was first reported in the athletic.

Multiple sources have confirmed Guadalajara's elected to sign a new deal to take a stay at the club to 10 years.

So we joined in 2016.

He's won 18 trophies so far.

Very good news for Manchester City, Barry.

Not very very good news for everyone else, I would say.

Yeah, probably.

As you said in the intro, I didn't see this coming.

I presumed he'd be off at the end of the season.

My first thought was, like you, because we're such cynical people, Max, is does he know something about this tribunal that the rest of us don't?

I have no idea.

Probably doesn't.

And it's good for City

because it will help with the handover when Guerstein leaves, the director of football, leaves at the end of the season, Hugo Viana comes in from sporting, it'll

add some, what's the word I'm looking for?

Continuity.

Continuity, yes, thank you, Max.

I think you said that about 20 seconds ago.

I thought it was going to be like, anyway, right.

That's not very good continuity, is it?

Saying continuity and not.

then not being able to remember I just said continuity.

Anyway, I've already said the word continuity far more often than I had planned

in this

my response to this question, which suggests it's reached its conclusion.

I think it has.

Paul,

what's your immediate reaction to the news?

I think it'll bring a lot of good continuity to the club as well.

I'm hoping you'd go there.

I don't suppose, you know, you don't have to be a sort of conspiracy theorist to say that he may well know something, right?

Because I can imagine, you know, when you're discussing what you're going to do with the new contracts, a lot of the question is going to be, are we going to be in the Vanorama?

So

I would imagine he may well know something, to be totally honest.

I don't think I'm going all deep state on that, and that it may mean that there's at least another year before anything particularly gets done about the charges.

Otherwise, I'm looking forward to seeing him down here at Forest Green.

I was going to say that, but actually, Forest Green could well go up this season.

so who knows?

Who knows?

Yeah, as I said,

we'll continue this chat tomorrow, but lots of international stuff to get through.

Let's start with Wales, who beat Iceland 4-1,

promoted from League B group 4.

Gordo said, Should England have gone for Craig Bellamy instead of Tuchel?

Nigel says it's half-time and Wales are topping the group.

What chances of Ellis James doing the school run in the morning?

Well, he doesn't let us know if he did the school run, but here is Ellis James on last night.

Oh, Max, they should prescribe thumping wins in the Nations League on the NHS.

That would do an awful lot to ease the burden on the NHS.

If a successful campaign in the Nations League was a pill or a tablet, we'd all be taking them.

Wales for

Iceland won.

Craig Bellamy's sixth game in charge.

He still hasn't lost yet.

Wizard has been promoted back to League A.

We are big in the back time

and almost certainly guaranteed a World Cup playoff spot if we mess up qualification

qualification by the traditional route that is.

And it means we're guaranteed at being in part two of the World Cup draw, which is great.

We don't have playoffs in March, which is what I expected.

Harry Wilson has now scored four goals in his past in the past five games for Wales, scored an absolutely fantastic goal, real screamer.

The fourth goal

from Hari was an absolute belt.

He's such a talented player.

I don't know why he doesn't play more often for Fulham.

Incredible.

When you think about it, it's only five months ago that the team were booed off in Slovakia and we were unable to beat Gibraltar.

So

the transformation under Craig Bellamy since he took over from Rob Page is just huge.

I mean, we didn't have it all our own way.

Iceland certainly got off to the best start.

They were one and up after seven minutes.

It was the first time we have fallen behind under Craig Bellamy, actually.

What's so exciting about it is that it feels like we're at the beginning of something rather than clinging on to the end of something.

Liam Cullen, shout out to the Kilgeti Messi.

I thought he was fantastic.

There's an awful lot of Swansea City influence in this Welsh team, and Swansea fans, obviously, you've seen a lot of Liam Cullen over the last few years.

I think I've always known there was a player in there, but we're really starting to see it now.

Uh, I love Liam Cullen, and long may this continue.

I think that Brendan Johnson scoring a goal could be significant because if we are going to do well and if we are going to succeed, he is such a vital player for us, um, him and Harry Wilson.

Of course, yeah, it's just really exciting feeling like you're at the beginning of a project.

It's a really, really nice feeling.

That uh, I couldn't go tonight, I don't miss very many, but I'm um currently doing a tour of Welsh language stand-up and I've got six gigs this week.

I actually took the night off to go to the game, and then I realised that my kids would probably disown me.

And what I should have said was, yeah, kids, I mean, kids are great, but this is the nations league.

But it's all building up to a show I'm recording at the Lyric Theatre in Camar then on Saturday night, Saturday the 23rd,

which is going to go on S4C, the Welsh language channel for over Christmas.

So, actually, there's still tickets left.

If you love Welsh language stand-up, and who doesn't?

I really am one of the titans of the Welsh language stand-up comedy scene.

I'm doing two shows at 6 p.m.

and 8pm

on Saturday the 23rd at the Lyric Theatre in Carmarthen.

The only lyric, if you ask me.

Yes, odd the one in Hammersmith.

But anyway, Max, it feels good.

I feel good.

I'm one of the titans of Welsh language stand-up comedy for crying out loud.

I'm willing to say it now, you know?

I'm willing to come out there and just

puff my chest out.

Craig Bellamy's done that to me.

Craig Bellamy.

Thank you, Ellis.

I would go as far to say that you are the titan, not just a titan, but the titan of Welsh language stand-up comedy.

And everyone, please go and watch his show.

Let's talk to Ben Fisher, who was there.

Hey, Ben.

Sorry, sorry, just hold on, Max.

You say everyone, go and watch his show.

With the greatest respect, I would quite like to go and watch his show, but I don't speak Welsh, so it would be a waste of my time and the time of someone who does speak Welsh who might like to go and see his show.

Ah, so you could buy a ticket and then give up your ticket for somebody who actually speaks Welsh.

That's like giving it up for a real fan.

Okay.

But you're not accusing Ellis of you're sort of keeping us away from his comedy.

We don't know if it's good, do we?

Well, at least he admitted it's a Welsh language show.

It's not like

when I went to see what was that

Tim Burton movie

about the barber, the demon barber,

which ended up being...

This is a hands.

No, no.

Anyway, it ended up being a musical.

Sweeney Todd.

Sweeney Todd, yeah.

So it ended up being a musical, but they didn't tell you that in the trailer.

It was very misleading.

I see.

So at least, you know, Ellis has fronted up.

This is in Welsh.

If you are Welsh and you speak Welsh, or if you're not Welsh and you speak Welsh, or you understand Welsh, enjoy Ellis's show.

To Ben Fisher then, who was there last night.

Hey, Ben.

Hey, Max.

How's it going?

Yeah, very good.

What did you make of last night?

What a great result.

And what a brilliant campaign from Craig Bellamy.

Yeah, just an amazing, sort of absorbing.

campaign from Craig Bellamy, obviously six games in charge, three wins, three draws.

And, you know, there have been little minor bumps, but it feels coming off the back of the campaign, it feels sort of semi-flawless, really, given how well things have gone.

I think it must be beyond what he was expecting,

even if he's sort of at pains to say he wants Wales to be this top team and not just get to the World Cup, but compete at a World Cup.

But I think we have to remember, I mean, he is basically working with more or less the same tools that Rob Page is working with, his predecessor.

But we are, he feels like he is eating that bit more out of them.

And I have to say, I wasn't too sure if that was possible, but so far, so good.

And yeah, just an extraordinary start.

He's clearly enjoying it.

I think he is a bit worried about what he's going to do for the next four months, because, as he said the other day,

he needs to keep busy.

And obviously, he's had these three camps in three months.

But yeah, what a start.

We knew when he came in the door that, you know, he was quite a highly rated coach.

He obviously sidekicked to Vincent Company.

And let's let's face it he talked kind of quite a good game but actually he has backed up he has delivered the the players have certainly bought in they're kind of waxing lyrical about him lots of meetings lots of detail but they seem to be loving it and and it is showing it's not like he wants one thing but we're not really seeing it okay it's not perfect but there are so so many positives and just to reiterate the point you know it's not like he's working with a sort of team full of elite Premier League players.

You know, there are still a couple of, you know, sort of gaps, if you like, where maybe

you'd want a sort of top player in there, but he's getting so much from them.

Ben, can I ask, what is Bellamy doing that is noticeably different

from what Paige was doing, if anything?

Yeah, I mean, now, Barry, it feels like

almost everything.

I mean, it's so intense that, in fact, it's funny because last night, obviously, an amazing win, comeback win, 4-1.

Actually, it was probably the first time they'd started so sloppily.

These fast starts have been a thing.

They scored two goals in three minutes out of Montenegro.

I don't think they'd scored a second half goal until last night, and obviously got a couple of them.

They're moving the ball with such intensity.

The forward players are playing with such freedom now.

Bellamy keeps saying, you know, Wales don't play formations.

A Craig Bellamy team supposedly doesn't play formations.

They play shapes in terms of how he alludes to how flexible they move, how interchangeable everything is.

And again, in fairness, it all sounds

a bit peppy.

You're seeing it on the pitch is very fluid.

Ben Davies has played left-back, centre-half.

Lots of players have played different positions.

He's used something like 25 players.

He, again, rotated four players to keep that freshness.

Last night, he's flip-flopped with the goalkeepers, Danny Ward and Carl Darlow, neither of whom are playing regular football at their clubs.

It has been an amazing team effort, as Bellamy was desperate to point out last night.

And sort of like you've mentioned,

it feels like the end of the Galacticos, right?

And like players like Liam Cullen, who

most listeners probably won't have heard of and who wasn't doing brilliantly at Swansea for ages,

and, you know, Mark Harris playing in the championship for Oxford, to get those guys to sort of raise their game and then to get...

players like Brennan Johnson, okay, he's been pretty good for Spurs, but Harry Wilson, not playing for Fulham, play absolutely brilliantly, it's just testament to what Bellamy's doing.

Yeah, I really love Brendan Johnson.

You know, I've really liked him for a while, but I have to say, last night felt even like a bit of a moment.

In a way, I suppose it was a bit of a shame he didn't end up sort of capping the scoring, as it were, because it felt like he needed that moment in a Wells shirt, weirdly, even though he's been so good in sort of glimpses.

So hopefully there's more of that to come from him.

But as you say, Max, you know, people like Josh Sheehan, who's playing for Bolton in League One.

you know, in midfield again last night.

Harry Wilson played deeper, basically, because they don't have loads of options in there with Amper Amper Du out injured.

Joe Allen, you know, can't get through 90 minutes at the moment, having come back to the team.

But I mean, I would just say, sort of, lastly, in terms of the team, I think Nico Williams, Joe Rodon, and Ben Davies played every minute under Bellamy.

And those three, all defenders, have been incredible.

I mean, Ben Davies

sort of staggers me really here.

He doesn't play more for Spurs, but every time he pulls on a Wales shirt, he's just superb,

blocking and heading everything that comes his way.

I know, know I appreciate he probably doesn't bomb upfield maybe as Posta Covely would like to in that system.

But likewise, Joe Rodon's been brilliant and Nico Williams, too.

So there's so many kinds of, you know, there's not one superstar now, as you said, in this sort of post-Bell era that we're still actually weirdly adjusting to.

There's not one superstar.

Johnson hasn't quite picked onto those levels, but everybody's doing their bit.

And like I said, yeah, you know, Danny Ward can come in barely playing a game for Leicester and puts in an amazing performance last night.

Perhaps less importantly, or more importantly, depending on who you follow, you wrote the piece, Ben, about Ian Holloway thinking that Swindon Town is haunted.

Yes.

Which is a great story, isn't it?

Yeah, no,

he'd actually flagged it a while back saying how doors were opening when they shouldn't have been, that doors he'd shut had suddenly started opening behind him.

I mean, it was quite the move for a post-match interview at Acklington Stanley after a two-all draw.

Yeah, it's actually a big game this weekend.

They've got more coming at home.

He's yet to win in the league.

I think he's had three games in charge.

But yeah, obviously, we know him, don't we?

As obviously this hugely colourful character.

I remember a few years ago, it brought back memories.

I remember trying to do an interview with him after he took over at Grimsby.

I said, oh, yeah, you know, can you ring me on whatever day it was?

And he ended up, I remember he woke me up because it was about 6 a.m.

or just after.

Who's that ringing me?

It was Ian Holloway on the way into training.

And next thing he's singing super cataphragilistic expiadidocious down the phone.

You know, he's just this, we know him as this kind of madcap character.

And I suppose this is just to kind of latest installment.

We should say as well,

he's inching towards a thousand games as a manager.

I think that is due around Boxing Day, if the stars are lying.

So I think that's something that probably semi-driving him as well to be part of that gang, as he said the other day.

Yeah.

You know, I am.

He hasn't done amazingly recently, but I have all the time in the world for Ian Holloway.

Every dealing I've had and, you know, me and Barry have had.

I'm sure he just, he rang our radio show at some point when he was out metal detecting.

And no one has said the word artifact better than him.

Not even you could say it better than him.

He says here some really, really strange things are happening.

He's asked his wife, Kim, to, quote, cleanse the area because the training ground in, I think it's called Calm, C-A-L.

Oh, yeah.

Carl is near an ancient burial site.

I'm absolutely devastated.

So I'm going to try and cleanse the training ground area because people are telling me it's haunted.

Seriously, there's a graveyard somewhere near.

I'm not joking.

Um, I'm going to get my wife to come up and say sorry to all these people, and hopefully, we'll have a bit more luck.

But you have to earn your luck as well, he said.

I liked it because he kind of had a sort of semi-dig, I think, at some of the reporting in the aftermath.

You know, people who picked up his comments, obviously, ourselves included, and he sort of reserved a word for the Times, who apparently are going to go to extra lengths to pick up the CCTV, which he claims, you know, is evidence of this.

So, we should, you know, look out for that, I suppose.

I'm curious to know if his wife, Kim, has

sort of

why an apology from her would be in some way worth more than an apology from him or anyone else.

Is she a qualified exorcist or something?

That's a good question.

He said that she is a fan of following,

I can't remember the name of the YouTube channel, some YouTube channel where...

Is that Yvette Fielding?

and someone else.

I'm not sure.

I think it was called Casper Ghosts or something, I want to say.

Well, you clearly haven't done as much research as the Times, as far as I can tell.

I like the idea of them driving around in their little mystery mobile.

They'll eventually pull the mask off.

It'll be the groundsman at the

training ground.

It'll be Yannarga Fjotov, it'll be a Swindon legend who doesn't want them to repeat the heights.

Yeah, or it will be Squires or an Oxford United legend.

It'll be John Aldridge.

Anyway, cheers, Ben.

Off you go.

Thanks, Judge.

Ben Fisher there, and that'll do for part one.

Part two, you and Murray will join us from the Jazz Bar.

We'll talk about Scotland's last-minute heroics.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Let's go straight to the jazz bar.

Ewan Murray joins us.

Hey, Ewan.

Morning.

So, what a win then for Scotland in Poland.

Last minute, Andy Robertson bullet header into the top corner.

That was something else, isn't it?

Yeah, I think probably the best moment for Andy Robertson in a Scotland shirt.

That was his 80th cap.

I don't know whether that says more about Andy Robertson or more about Scotland or more about anything else, but it was a fantastic moment for him.

And I think just the combination of, and I've written this and said it up team times,

Scotland finally got more out of the, sorry, got the proper reward from the Nations League.

I thought until Monday night, they hadn't quite got the Nations League what they put into it.

And it was a great moment, and I think fitting reward for what they'd contributed to that group.

Yeah, and he put out a great photo of, you know, my first cap and my 80th cap.

And

we all know people age, but when you put them together, you think, God, he was just a child.

And now he looks like a sort of grizzled old man, doesn't he?

Despite probably being, you know, more than a decade younger than any of us.

Yeah.

and i i'm pleased for him on a personal level because i think he suffers a little bit with the thing of scotland watching the national team don't quite appreciate how much he he brings you know great scottish players of the past have had that kind of leash being the main one i think robertson robertson's performances for scotland are still of a very very high level and maybe he has a slight point to prove he's not playing as much for liverpool i don't know that'll be that'll be part of it but I was pleased that he got a moment like that for people maybe just to appreciate more of what he brings to the team.

So do you think much has changed in Steve Clark's approach to these results or they've just or they've just got some results?

Yeah, that's an interesting point.

A lot of people believe post-Euros he's thrown the shackles off and maybe got rid of his natural instinct and

let the team play with gay abandon and all this kind of stuff.

I'm not sure that's true.

I think what has happened, well, two things have happened.

One,

you know, they've played with a back three, stroke, back five to allow Tierney and Robertson to play in the same team.

Now, Tierney is is injured, so that's not a factor.

They're playing with a back four,

and they look very comfortable with the system they're playing.

Basically, four, two, three, one.

I think more importantly, in the summer in Germany, too many or all of their main players didn't play well.

And Scotland don't have enough good players that when the main guys don't perform, and it's fine naming them, I think McGinn, McTominay, Robertson himself, Callum McGregor was playing then, Billy Gilmer.

I think for various reasons, they struggled at the Euros.

And when that happens, Scotland don't have enough other guys in the squad to prop them up and I think basically for again for a number of reasons Gilmore and McTominay obviously have been rejuvenated and Italy being the main one McGinn's come back in the team and playing well at Villa um I think that those players are back on form and that has just massively helped what what Steve Clark is is able to do you and Dick this was a really terrific game just you know end-to-end stuff really entertaining and we spoke a bit about him on Monday but I'd just like to hear your thoughts on Ben Doak who has really been impressive in those two games.

Yeah, I mean as you guys will know I am more cautious than most when it comes to young Scottish players and talking them up and saying how wonderful they're going to be.

I think excitement around Doak is justified.

Sorry I should have said that to Max.

That's another part of why things I think have improved.

Doak has gone in alone to Middlesbrough.

He's playing every week.

He's playing well every week which means it's very easy to pick him for the national team.

And when he comes in you see that he is different.

He has searing pace.

His decision making is is decent.

He's got a lot to learn.

His final ball can improve, et cetera, et cetera.

But he is that different attacking option that Scotland have been crying out for for a long, long time.

And I think it's fair to be excited by him.

And I think the fact that Steve Clark now picks him and is starting 11, what, three games in a row?

I think that shows that he believes that the hype is justified and that we can be excited about what Doke can...

can bring.

You're right, Barry, to say about the game.

And actually, that's another resurgence, if you like, that shouldn't be lost.

They've started getting breaks.

And the break on Monday was that Lewandowski was injured.

I think if he'd played in that game, it's reasonable to think Poland would have scored more than one goal.

They got a break against Croatia, and Croatia played the second half with 10 men.

These things have started to fall in Scotland's favour again, where for a while they definitely weren't.

But yeah, Doak's exciting.

You know, whether he's going to be Liverpool's answer in the future, I don't know, but I think it's definitely clear that he can have a very good career and be a very big part of the national team for a long time to come.

It's rare, Ewan, that you get misty-eyed discussing a footballer.

But at the other end of the scale from Ben Doak, Craig Gordon, again, had another brilliant game, didn't he?

I regularly get misty-eyed talking about Craig Gordon.

Yeah, that's not that wouldn't be.

I mean, he had a clean sheet against Ronaldo and Portugal, clean sheet against Croatia,

played well again the other night.

Yeah, I mean, there's not much I can say about him that I haven't said before.

At some point, at some time, Scotland will have to find a new goalkeeper.

Craig turns turns 42 next month.

But for now, I think we can enjoy what he continues, and he will certainly enjoy what he continued to bring to.

And it's the top level of international football.

He's not playing against,

I was going to say San Marino, but they're good now, aren't they?

He's not playing against Gibraltar and Armenia.

He's playing against proper international teams and he's doing exceptionally well.

And it's a continuation of a wild story.

Ewan, it's probably quite boring, but can you explain for the benefit of people who might not know why I had to watch this game on YouTube?

And at one point, there were over 400,000 people watching it on YouTube.

It seems a shame that a game this good isn't on terrestrial television or even pay-per-view.

You know, that it's so hard to find.

A lot of people might not have even known it was on YouTube.

Boring answer is that Via Play owned the rights to these games, and that's a centralised deal.

It wasn't the Scottish FA or FA in England or anyone else, but Via Play Play bought the rights to these fixtures.

Via Play have obviously shut down their operations in the UK subsequently, so they can sublet those games, but the Alexis ITV and the BBC didn't buy them.

I think Scotland's first set of Nations League fixtures in September were an ITV3.

The games in October weren't, which was a surprise to me because you had the Moderates and Ronaldo factor, never mind Craig Gordon.

And then, when it came to these games in November, basically, no one else bought them from Via Play.

So, the answer is that Via Play

at no cost, obviously, to them, just stick them on their own YouTube channel.

The Scottish National team put it on their own YouTube channel because there are no other takers.

I disagree with you, Barry, slightly.

And I think, well, A, I think the coverage on there is perfectly fine.

And B, surely everyone can use YouTube nowadays, can they?

It's not difficult to find.

Oh, no, I appreciate that, but it's just a lot of people might not even have known it was on YouTube who wanted to see it.

That's all.

It becomes a every time these games come around, it becomes a political debate in Scotland.

It is a disgrace and an outrage that the BBC, especially, or another free-to-air broadcaster, doesn't take these games.

Now, they would argue that's a commercial decision.

Uh, I wouldn't have a clue what money via play want for them.

But I just think if you want to find the game, you could fit and as long as the stream is

fine, which it was the other night, you know, there's no analysis, there's no post-match stuff, it's just the football.

But I think, in terms of finding the game, it's reasonable enough if you want to do it.

That's me, Taul.

Absolutely.

Just Barry, the last dinosaur, switches on the telly, goes one, two, three, four, nothing.

Off

because I do this a lot.

I mean, if you just Google, you know, what channel is such and such a game on, there's actually articles written there, isn't there, in various outlets telling you precisely where you can find it in any given country.

There was a great moment when Scotland Croatia was on because obviously I was scrolling down on the YouTube, and it was 475,000 people are currently watching.

and then I was I was scrolling down so I could get to San Marino Gibraltar and it said 480 are watching

you know it's the future you know that's sounding equally old you know it's the future isn't it you're right most tellies now have a button that says YouTube and it is there but I mean it's interesting if there's no studio analysis I guess Ewan, because I think people, I mean, people will watch the game regardless, but some people like that.

Yeah, and some people are absolutely delighted there's no studio analysis.

Some people love that element of it.

It's quite funny.

I'm kind of in the middle.

I don't mind.

As long as the technology works, I think

it's a reasonable enough place to find it.

But I think down the line, you would hope that I agree with Barry in the wider point.

Down the line, you would hope a team and a Scotland team that continues to do well should have a bit of a bigger platform.

I mean, the Wales game was on S4C last night.

I watched it.

The England game is obviously on terrestrial.

So that's that that jars with people, and that's not unreasonable that the other home nations are on are on you know, terrestrial television and Scotland are not.

So, I get the point that that would stick, but I think if you want to find a game, you can find the game.

One minor sort of uh disappointment, I guess, is the fact that Slovakia and Czech Republic both won last night, which means that Scotland World Cup qualifying group, they'll be in pop three, so could come up against two big guns.

How big a blow is that?

Yeah, again, not to be or sound contrary, which as you know is not me.

I don't think that's that big a deal.

Two parts of this.

One, Scotland have shown they can not qualify from every pot going in previous years.

And two, more importantly, I just think they've shown they can compete against, you know, the best teams in Europe.

They might not top the group, and I accept that, but I think, regardless of any group, they've got a decent chance of finishing second given what we've seen in recent times under Steve Clark's team.

So I and I look at a lot of pot two and pot three and think it's much of a muchness.

Of course, you can get get a stinking draw, but you could always get a stinking draw.

So I'm not as downbeat about that or obsessed with that as some people are.

I didn't think the other night, put it this way, I didn't think that the World Cup pots thing was the key element.

I thought the key thing was: can they avoid relegation from this Nations League group, which thus far they have?

They've got a playoff to play.

And again, I think they've got a decent chance of coming through that playoff.

I think they can negotiate the World Cup in pots regardless of being in pot three.

And Scotland will be based in New Orleans, so you can go to the jazz bar there.

You know, plural.

I've never actually

all my time in the US covering golf, I've never actually been there.

So

that would be a bonus on various levels.

Great, Sizzy.

Aberdeen fans keep getting in touch with us to say spend more time talking about them, please.

They're level on points with Celtic after 11 games.

Can you talk about them, please, Ewan?

I think we did talk about them, didn't we?

Yeah, we did.

I think there were eight games and level with Celtic when we talked about them last, but you know we can talk about them some more

Celtic beat them six nil in the league cup semi-final no no I just listen I think for Scottish football the longer that can last if Aberdeen can make it 22 games 33 games you know I they won't win the league unless Celtic make major major errors which I don't expect them to make um

and and to be fair we've seen how strong Celtic are in a wider sense in terms of their their excellent Champions League performances.

But the longer Aberdeen can stay around there,

it's good for the game.

And And what Jimmy Tolene has done, you know, they're playing in front of capacity crowds every week.

And I think that the one club city thing helps here.

He's really rejuvenated the football club, the city in terms of its relationship with the football club.

And the longer that lasts, the better.

You know, we should all fuck that up.

I've got no problem.

I'd rather it was hearts, but on the basis it's not hearts, but someone else can do it.

That's fine by me because it adds a different dynamic to a league that is not nearly competitive enough.

Willie says, I'd love Ewan to explain more about space retrieval practice in mathematics, please.

Can I apologize to the Ewan Murray that I did tag on Blue Sky when asking for questions, who is a PhD student at York University, looking at spaced retrieval practices in mathematics, which, if you're interested, is when students are tested at spaced intervals on the material they've been learning.

First, every day, then after two or three days, then with longer intervals, the act of retrieving the information forms part of the learning process.

If you don't have anything to add to that, Ewan, you may go.

No, no,

not as me.

I do that in my spare time.

Good for you.

It basically sounds like the academic equivalent of a beep test.

Yes, I think it is.

Yeah.

Although it gets slower.

It gets slower, but you know, so it's a more acceptable bleep test.

I'd like to think they're throwing up and everything like a bleep test.

Like the students laughing into buckets,

vomiting out nuts.

Thank you, Ewan.

Always a pleasure.

My birthday, I'm off for a glass of birthday champagne for breakfast.

Oh, happy birthday, Ewan.

Happy birthday.

See soon.

Before we end part two, let's do a bit of Northern Ireland.

Richard says Northern Ireland's average age in 2017 was over 30.

Last night was barely over 22.

One lad, Rory McConville, also got his first start in senior men's professional football in an international and did well.

Surely we get up to 90 seconds of pod time from those stats, Barry.

Yeah, well, that listener has basically stolen half my bit

with his his interesting facts.

So thanks for that.

Yeah, Northern Ireland.

I mean, we're raving about the great job Craig Bellamy is doing with Wales, but it could be argued Michael O'Neill is doing just as well, if not better, during his second stint with Northern Ireland.

In this window, they beat Bulgaria 2-0.

They were 2-0 up against Luxembourg and allowed them to come back and draw.

It's a game Northern Ireland threw away.

They should have won it far more easily.

But anyway, regardless of that result in Luxembourg, they topped the group and win promotion to League Two in the Nations League.

I suppose if you go back to the March friendlies, Northern Ireland were coming out of this really

awful effort to qualify for the Euros.

They'd lost

the likes of Stuart Dallas, Stephen Davis, Johnny Evans, who you know contributed in no small part to the average age of that side being over, you know, 45.

And

Michael O'Neill has basically introduced 11 or 12 new players and started giving them regular game time.

Players who had never played for Northern Ireland before or were only in,

you know, had a handful of caps and some who have never played senior football.

for their clubs.

Pierce Charles, brother of Shea,

he's a goalkeeper at Sheffield Wednesday.

He's never played for Sheffield Wednesday.

He's never played a league match.

Rory McConville, as we mentioned, he's in Brighton's Academy.

He's never played a senior match for Brighton.

Brody Spencer

plays for Huddersfield.

He's a 19-year-old.

So, yeah, the average age of the Northern Ireland side that drew with Luxembourg and beat Bulgaria is 22 years old.

A lot of these guys are incredibly inexperienced, but they're developing a style.

They've played 10 games together now between Friendlies and the Nations League.

Michael O'Neill

is just doing really well with very, very limited raw materials.

He's been rotating the captaincy.

So Trey Hume, who I think is 22, Sunderland player, Connor Bradley and Shay Charles, who were all like 20, 21, they've each had two games as captain.

And O'Neill has yet to decide on who get the gig full-time.

But, you know, it doesn't really matter.

He has stressed, we have a lot of leaders in this team, and it's a very young team.

Only two members of the squad yesterday were over 30.

So exciting times for Northern Ireland.

I don't watch as much Northern Ireland as I probably should, but I did see when they beat Bulgaria.

They tore them apart 5-0, that Bulgaria game.

It was amazing to watch because the one thing I've always seen in Bulgaria is they're just a very solid, quite dull defensive team.

And the way Northern Ireland set about them was a real joy to watch.

The Connor Bradley, Isaac Price, like they just have players on that pitch that were just really enjoying setting about this Bulgaria side.

And

it was really brilliant to watch, actually.

So yeah, I haven't got a lot to add, but I massively enjoyed watching that game.

And it's really nice to see Northern Ireland playing like that.

Also, Paul, we glossed over a big part of Wales winning.

their group was that Turkey lost to Montenegro, which was Montenegro's first three points of this entire Nations League campaign.

What on earth happened there?

Well,

Montenegro had lost their last seven games.

They were in dreadful form.

We mentioned their chain-smoking boss, Robert Prozaneski, didn't we, before on the pod a while back.

And they were not in a good state.

But what happened was Nikola Kustovich of Leche in Serie A put together this hat-trick, brilliant hat-trick.

And Turkey just didn't look like they were there.

But of all the results, you know, when people were saying in the build-up to this, what Wales needed, I was thinking, well, yeah, but it's moot because there's no way Montenegro beat Turkey.

So that was that for me was one of the biggest shocks of the night, really.

All right, that'll do for part two.

Part three, we will begin with San Marino.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Paul Watson's World of Football.

Ryan says, are San Marino now too big time for Paul?

Michael, are San Marino now too good for their cult status?

Jack, will away fans travelling to San Marino have to ask, where were you when we were shit in future?

I watched these highlights, Paul, of their 3-1-1 at Lichtenstein, and genuinely, I was just sitting in the garden and I...

I sort of burst into tears at the end with just the absolute, you know, those reminders of why football is so great and just what it meant to those players.

Yeah, and I think I've spoken before about the fan club, the Brigata Mauna Gioia, the Never Any Joy Brigade, who are this San Marino fan club, who are mostly Italians.

There's a few Germans in there.

There's even some guys from Argentina and Spain who occasionally come over.

And the idea is that they have like basically adopted San Marino as their team and they go to all San Marino's home games at least.

And the idea was that...

They kind of reveled in never seeing them win.

It was like the whole purpose of this group was, you know, oh, well, we got a corner this time, that sort of atmosphere.

But the Nations League has just completely changed the whole dynamic because in the past, San Marino could only really go so far because every game was just damage limitation.

You know, there's realistically no way they're going to keep the score down against certain nations.

So they play in this incredibly defensive way.

And what's been lovely to see is

this whole Nations League campaign, they've been able to actually play like a team who want to score a goal.

And it's a real mentality shift for them.

Oh, sorry.

I thought I just presumed you were going to do 25 minutes on it.

I could do a hard hour and a half if you like, but I do wonder if your listener figures might be hit by that.

You'll see your retention rate and it will just go plummeting.

So

is them beating Lichtenstein comfortably a surprise?

Because I don't presume Lichtenstein are that high up the world ranking.

Well, Max Lichtenstein is a famously hard place to go because I'm sure you remember in 1995, Jack Charlton took an Ireland team ranked ninth in the world to Lichtenstein for a Euro qualifier.

I think it was played in front of about 4,000 people, most of them Irish.

Lichtenstein had one professional player on their team.

They had a draftsman, an architect, several bankers, the obligatory postman that plays on all part-time amateur teams.

And Ireland had 40 shots on goal, somehow failed to score and drew 0-0.

And Liechtenstein's players celebrated wildly after this game.

Which, you know, Ireland, as I say, ranked ninth in the world, were basically held by a ski resort.

So a tough place to go.

San Marino,

this was their first ever away win at their 101st attempt.

Yeah, I was just going to say, Paul, has the Lichtenstein squad developed a tour in the last 29 years, or is it the same?

Exactly the same guys trying to come out everywhere.

What I will say is it's literally a hard place to get to.

It's very expensive.

There's no easy way to get to Vaduz.

I'll also say that when I did go there when I was a kid, I nearly got run over on a Zebra crossing because I thought people observed Zebra Crossing.

So I nearly died in Liechtenstein, which would have been a very fitting way for me to go, but I wouldn't really have realised until, you know, I never would have had the career.

So

people say, what senseless waste.

Died in Vaduz at the age of nine.

But actually, no, that's pretty much what I was going to do.

But yeah, I mean, Liechtenstein are in a bad place, to be fair.

They're not doing well.

And if Samarino are your bogey team, then you know you've got a problem.

What I will say, like, genuinely, Samarina are playing much, much better football.

And a lot of that started under their last boss, Fabrizio Constantini.

They started to get a few goals.

I remember that little run where I think I had to do an emergency voice note because Samarina just scored a goal and that was enough at that time.

But then, obviously, they were playing against Denmark and losing 2-1 and Kazakhstan and Finland.

Now...

They came up against teams more of their level and took that into that environment and suddenly felt like, you know, we can score here it is so on the one hand there's the side of me that wants to get carried away and say they are still in contention for a world cup place here because of the new system um there's the other side that says that nicola nani imagine just imagine on the other hand nicola nanny who scored the penalty to make it uh he scored the penalty in the in the 3-1 win has now got three goals for samarino which makes him their second top scorer of all time.

So, you know,

we do have to slightly temper expectations, I think.

Yeah, but I mean, I suppose them being in League C, you imagine they will just get absolutely ripped apart.

But it's still, you know, to have promotion just

for that whole footballing nation is just insane.

Yeah, and

I saw someone tweeting to say that there's a good chance they might meet the Faroe Islands.

And my God, you couldn't keep me away from that game.

Faroe Islands just a submariner.

I mean, just to mention Sweden, who beat Azerbaijan 6-0, because I said on Monday that that front three looked fun, and then Kulazewski got two, and Yokores got four in that game, and he looks very Premier League.

You know, people say, well, I'm not sure he could,

they could cut it coming from Europe.

Of course, he was good at Coventry as well, but yeah, he looks excellent.

And Richards, Denmark's press conference after their Serbia draw yesterday, ended after 20 seconds because no one had any questions to ask.

I don't know.

You know, if you've ever done those, I don't know if either of you have gone to like a university or a school to give a talk on getting into the media.

And then at the end, you go, any questions?

And there's absolutely nothing.

And you're just there going, oh, this is sad.

I'll tell you who would have liked a press conference like that is Ghana's manager.

You know, Ghana in a terrible state.

I don't know if you've seen Otto Addo.

So Ghana didn't qualify.

uh for afcon for the first time in 21 years terrible state lost 2-1 to niger in the final game of the group and afterwards there was a press conference and ottoado the coach came out and a journalist said what are you a scout or a coach to which he said well look I did scouting for six months I've been coaching for 12 years you know where are you going with this and he said well at coaching you're no good at all and there was like this absolute sort of clamour of it so I think probably Otto Addo would have liked no questions that you basically got ripped to pieces in this way that was really not at all professional but I think said how frustrated people in Ghana are at that kind of result I suppose in a way it makes it makes a difference from sort of the twee Premier League press conferences.

You know, a phone rings on the desk and everyone laughs.

It'd be good to someone to just put their hand and go, I think you're hopeless, mate.

The Sakurus drew 2-2 in Bahrain.

They went 1-0 up after 40 seconds.

This is a World Cup qualifier considered 2 in two minutes.

Both scored by Maddy Abdul-Jabbar.

The first is brilliant.

Equalised injury time.

I don't know, Paul, if Bahrain is a tough place to go.

But I sort of feel if you can't beat Bahrain, getting to the World Cup is probably...

There's not a whole lot of point.

Well, it's an amazing group.

Have you seen groups?

Yeah.

What a table.

I I mean, Japan are basically done with it.

They've washed their hands of it.

They're through.

And then you've just got Australia on seven points, Indonesia on six, Saudi Arabia on six, Bahrain on six, China on six.

Isn't it an amazing group table?

And Saudi Arabia losing to Indonesia, that was one of the results of this window.

Indonesia, I should say it the other way around, really, credit to Indonesia, a fantastic result for them.

But honestly, Saudi Arabia, after having Roberto Mancini, who did absolutely zero in charge, wouldn't even stay for their penalty shootout in the last competition they were knocked out of.

Um, suddenly, Saudi Arabia looked like they're in real crisis, and Indonesia on the up.

So, going to be one of the most interesting World Cup qualification groups there is, that one, I think.

Second place gets through to the World Cup, of course.

So, that is a real bun fight for that.

And then, I think there's a playoff below them, but

presumably

you will know.

You don't come to us for those sort of details, do you?

But, yeah, endless playoffs to qualify.

And apologies if I have, you know, I've done Bahrain

a disservice.

They could easily qualify.

While we're on Australia, congratulations to Sam Kerr and her partner, West Ham, and USWNT's Christy Mewist, who announced on social media they're having a baby.

It was met with the depressingly expected homophobic responses, which have been met with strong condemnation from Chelsea, amongst others.

But yeah, have a great time.

Get your sleep in now, if I were you.

Just across from Australia, of course, New Zealand have been having a much more comfortable time of qualification in the Oceania section.

They won their games this international break, 8-1 against Vanuatu and 8-0 against Samoa.

Chris Wood scored about 10 of them, producer Joel writes.

There are so many.

We just couldn't count all the Chris Wood goals.

It seems, you know, because Australia went into the Asian qualifiers, didn't they, Paul?

Because obviously it was more competitive and I think it was more chances of qualifying.

And now the World Cup's expanded and New Zealand should just walk into it every time.

Yeah, and it's definitely setting up for a slightly difficult situation for OFC because it's becoming the stranglehold that Australia had on that on the continent before they moved out.

New Zealand now sort of have got that same situation.

And there's constantly talk about whether OFC's days are numbered.

You know, is it going to be amalgamated into AFC in some capacity?

And I don't know that that's necessarily the worst idea.

It's just almost become a two-tier system where you've got New Zealand and very possibly on their day, Fiji.

or you know actually Solomon Islands are looking shocking at the moment they they can compete new Caledonia possibly on their day, but really, it's become New Zealand plus possibly one other team.

And then you've got everyone else really below that.

It's very hard to see a situation where New Zealand don't always walk away with it.

And I don't think it's doing anyone any good.

That 8-1 New Zealand Vanuatu result was a shocker because Samoa have come a long way.

You know, Samoa, in many ways, have slightly overachieved just even being where they are.

But Vanuatu are established football nation.

So to be getting crushed 8-1 is a bit of an embarrassment, really.

You wanted to mention toilet roll?

Yeah, so

I'll shamelessly plug again, but you know, I wrote a podcast called The Sweeper, and we like to

talk about, yeah, we like to talk about weird, wonderful stories.

And I got sent this about nine times that Vanuatu, when they lost 8-1 to New Zealand, they were then dumped out of the World Cup, they lost 2-0 to Tahiti.

Their FA chose a slightly unfortunate time to announce a new sponsor for their league, which is a local toilet roll company.

So they got all these photos taken of them receiving, actually, it doesn't look like very many toilet rolls, but it is toilet rolls literally for the national stadium.

And it was slightly unfortunate timing.

I pointed out as probably the second least embarrassing thing that's happened to Vanuatu's national team.

The most embarrassing was that in 2022, they hosted this tournament called the Prime Minister's Cup, and it's like a regional tournament.

They didn't have enough teams, so Vanuatu thought, look, we're hosting it.

We'll put in our like B team to make up the numbers.

And sure enough, the B team dumped out the A team in the group stage,

which was like,

you always love to see that, don't you?

JK says, on Monday, Michael Antonio missed Jamaica's CONCACAF Nations League quarterfinal against the USA because he lost his passport.

Do you know more about this, Paul?

Well, yeah.

They had a few players not show for this game and lost the passport.

I think two of them said they've lost their passports.

There might be more to it.

I'm not going to say there is, but there might be.

Obviously, they lost to the US 4-2,

and there were some great typical Steve McLaren heads-in-hands kind of pictures.

But I think there's been a lot of chaos internally in Jamaica's Football Federation.

It's not always

the most organised or sort of most harmonious.

So there could be a little bit more to that story, I think.

I remember years ago, John Hartson couldn't travel with Wales just for some game.

Because I think his passport had either been used so often or had been through the wash or a combination of both, but it was just so tatty and torn with pages falling out.

It was basically unreadable, so they wouldn't let him through whatever airport he was trying to get into.

They couldn't, so there was no picture of John Hartson left.

Yeah, John Hartson.

You should hold up your Hartson shirt.

John Hartson's shirt.

Just flying full kit.

Tell us about Kitmus, Paul, before we end the pod.

Yep.

So we're doing Kitmus again this year.

It's the fifth year we're doing it and it's a campaign I started in 2020 when I used to send football shirts out to refugee camps and I had some left over towards Christmas.

I went to my local food bank and said that these are brand new shirts.

Would they be any use?

And they were delighted and said actually a lot of families are struggling.

to give presents to their children this year and these would be ideal.

So I put out a little call on social media and the football community was amazing.

We ended up donating a thousand football shirts to community centers around the UK.

And we've kept this going for now our fifth year.

And I think to date, we've given about 5,500 shirts to different community groups, 25 around the UK, who work with families who perhaps won't find it so easy to give a present to their kids this year.

And we accept donations of as new shirts because obviously they have to be presents for kids, so they have to be in really good condition.

Or we take donations to buy new shirts for them on our crowdfunder page, which is crowdfunder forward slash kitmas2024.

So if anyone does want to help, it really does does sort of make a difference for these kids.

You're a good man, Paul, doing good things.

So well done to you.

We'll, of course, donate and stick all those details on our socials as well.

That'll do for today.

Thank you to the two of you for sticking with me for all of it

and recording it out of sync like Memento.

Well, to be clear, I'm the only one who was here for all of it because Paul had to duck out in part two to do the school run.

Part one, actually.

It was part one.

All right, sorry.

I'm mixing up.

I was an impact star.

I I came on as an impact star, but yeah.

No, no, no, it's important we point that out.

Paul doesn't hate the Welsh, he just wasn't there while we were doing the Wales bit.

He would have liked to have said something, but there was no time to do it.

His exact words on the WhatsApp group, I have to, quote, wrangle some children.

Right, this is all sounding bad.

A bit like the way that you said, I don't hate the Welsh, when you didn't have to say that, and it makes people wonder if I do.

All right, well, look, that'll do.

Thanks, both of you.

Thanks, Baz.

Thank you.

Thanks, Paul.

Thank you.

The Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.