Cup heartbreak for Coventry sets up Manchester derby final – Football Weekly

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Oh, Coventry, what agony.

To be three down, to get a penalty to equalize, to score it to score a winner in injury time and for that to be overturned before going out on penalties that is brutal so it'll be a Manchester Derby FA Cup final after City Edge past Chelsea another game where the blues have some proper ruining to do missed opportunities especially for Nicholas Jackson we'll discuss the scrapping of FA Cup replays won't someone think of the magic and then on to the Premier League will begin at the bottom the bottom six will play each other and the big story is obviously a tweet from Nottingham Forest.

Was it correct for the PGMOL to make Mick Harford the VAR for this one?

Is having three 50-50 penalty decisions turned down enough to yell corruption?

A big win for Everton, a big win for Burnley, too?

Are they still in it?

And a really bad defeat for Luton.

At the top, we probably needed wins for Arsenal and Liverpool.

The Gunners were pushed by Wolves, but did enough, while the Reds looked good at Craven Cottage.

Elsewhere, Palace are better when their better players are fit.

And Villa take another step towards Champions League football.

All that plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Troy Townsend, welcome.

Ah, hi, Max.

Hello, Barry Glenn Denning.

Hi, Max.

And hello, John Bruin.

Hello, Max.

Let's start then at Wembley yesterday.

Coventry 3, Manchester United 3.

Manchester United going through 4-2-1 penalties.

Jamie says, how does a Coventry fan, after that level of incredible emotion, recover from that?

How can they ever enjoy or trust football again?

Alex says, how much better will it feel next season when your team's last-minute winner is disallowed, being judged to be a hair's breadth offside in a semi-automated fashion?

I don't know about you, Barry.

I found the whole thing just so emotionally draining, and I was sort of welling up, I was crying by the end.

I just can't imagine being a Coventry fan because there's so many moments, even winning a penalty is agonizing, right?

Because you win with, and for a second, you're excited, then you're like just stressed about the thing.

And then they score that, and this oh, this offside goal, it was too much.

Uh, it was tremendous entertainment.

Uh, I watched this in the company of some Manchester United fans

and some

people with no dog in the fight who

everyone kind of lost interest once.

Manchester United went 3-0 up.

And then Coventry scored.

It was a, ooh, hold on.

And

then

it was in a pub.

The Fulham-Liverpool game was on a different screen over the other side of the pub.

Coventry scored their second.

And I think at that point, Fulham-Liverpool must have become the most unwatched

Sky Sports Super Sunday game in history at half-four on a Sunday because everyone kind of drifted over to start watching the

Coventry-United game.

They scored their third, the penalty.

At this stage, I think

a couple of the United fans were like, oh, just let Coventry win this thing

because it might hasten the departure of Eric Ten Hag.

And for that goal to be disallowed, look,

it was correctly disallowed.

This is what we all want to see in football, those like split millimetre decisions being enforced.

And

so they get to the penalty shootout and then lose it.

And

I think

if I was a Coventry fan, I'd be really proud of my team's effort to come back from 3-0 down.

They clearly enjoyed the day more than Manchester United fans, and yes,

they must have felt a bit hollowed out going back to Coventry from Wembley, but

they'll have something to talk about for a long time.

This game won't be forgotten, will it?

No,

there's so many scenes, John, of like it cut to Coventry fans, and they were so it was almost like it felt like I was watching Braveheart occasionally.

Just like

just like absolutely going, oh my God, I can't believe this.

And

we can't say VAR has to go because it got a correct decision against an underdog.

But it'd be great if it did go.

Do you know what I mean?

Well, I mean,

this is football's problem, isn't it?

Is that it isn't going to go.

And it's almost like it's...

This bomb has been set off in football that eventually...

Yeah,

it's funny, isn't it?

That game is an FA Cup classic on a weekend when

that followed the week in which the FA Cup was desecrated.

And Barry makes that point that no one cares about the Premier League title race when at Wembley this absolute classic is taking place, this classic comeback, remembering why we all loved the FA Cup.

But then you're introduced as well.

Oh, yeah, that other thing about modern football, VAR.

Yeah, you know, the one that pisses in your kettle.

You know, that one.

And it's just.

Listen, you know, I watched this with extra time in the Selhurst press room,

stopping briefly for David Moyes to

almost want to self-immolate.

And then this,

you know, this

spectacle is taking place, and it's the FA Cup at its greatest.

And it was offside, wasn't it?

I'm sorry.

Yeah, I mean, you know, you flick through X formerly on his Twitter this morning, and it's, well, well, it wasn't.

And there's a lot of well-actually flying around.

If you're a Manchester United fan, of which I have those leanings, Wambersaka's handball.

Well, after having a weekend of non-handball decisions, go, as Manchester United fans, you're like, well, how come that's handball when nothing else is handball?

Yeah, it's interesting.

The next thing I wrote was: we can't say we like the dumb handball law if it gives an underdog a penalty in injury time, but we can, can't we?

I can't imagine being dragged away from something as exciting as this game for something as unexciting as a David Moyes press conference.

That is really good.

It was one of his better ones.

It was one of of his better ones and i've sat through a lot of them that's true well we'll get to that we'll get to that um troy what did you make of all of it

the guys have summed it up um

how it became a classic i'll never know because it was just a a routine manchester united turning up at wembley you know beating the underdog going free up and casually like stroking the ball around the pitch

at some things I don't know what Mark Robbins did to his team.

I mean, look, they were in it.

they were a little bit off the pace they the enormity of the day everything you expect that don't you and then all of a sudden someone said someone pressed the switch and said let's just get in their faces they're only manchester united you know what can they do they can beat a 5-0 whatever it is but we've still reached the semi-final and then the the quality of their play the quality of their pressing the in-your-face kind of attitude they have some they've got some great players and obviously it's proved it by the way that they've not only approached approached the cup this season but the way they've approached the league and they thoroughly deserved to get into that extra time status and when it got to penalties I think we all resigned ourselves to be well that's that's going to be the end of Coventry isn't it and then Casemiro obviously had been speaking to Bernardo Silver and said I'm going to do exactly the same that you did and you know

it was it was massively heartbreaking but just on that offside this is the lopsided nature of this competition now or you know and it will be continuing I know the games are never played at

the home grounds of teams, but if this was a game at Coventry City, there would be no VAR.

And that's just the

lopsided nature of the competition.

Whereas you can have VAR in some stadiums, you can't in others.

It's fair for some, it's unfair for others.

It's just really ridiculous and has made a mockery of the competition.

I agree, it was offside, but it's made a mockery of the competition.

It can have it in some places and can't in others.

There are, like John said, there are

people on social media saying that

who've like done studies into the frame rate right so they don't trust the frame rate that you like when the ball is kicked obviously that that that moment is paused but the pause is probably better than my vhs in like 1991 but it's like not it's not like you don't know if that that's the exact moment i guess you have to have an exact moment what from a manchester united point of view barry i mean i've seen people saying you know this is the most humiliating way to reach an fa cup final And,

you know,

they should be ashamed.

They still got to the FA Cup final, right?

That is still an achievement.

They did, yeah.

They got to the final.

And, you know, winning a semi-final is all that matters.

And they did it

absolutely by the skin of their teeth.

But they're still in the final, which they probably lose.

But I don't think that will be enough to save Eric Tonhag's job.

I did say Thursday I thought Mark Robbins might do for him.

And even though Coventry lost this game,

Manchester United didn't come out of it well.

Ericon Hagg did nothing to enhance his reputation despite getting the result.

His players, well, most of them, did at least have the good grace.

not to celebrate at the end because they know bloody well they got away with one there.

Interestingly, Anthony did celebrate cupping his ears at the Coventry fans,

which has to be, ironically, the most tone-deaf

celebration, possibly since he sank to his knees and raised his hands to the heavens after scoring the third goal in a 4-2 win over Newport County in the third round.

Can I mount a defence of Anthony?

Yeah, I was at the Newport County game and it looked faintly ridiculous, as did this.

But then again, Anthony's probably spent 90, 120 minutes being barracked by these fans because he is a sort of target for fans.

And at Newport, I did see him targeted.

Now, there are maybe reasons behind that targeting.

Now,

I don't think, and may I be wrong about this, I don't think Anthony knows that Coventry is the sort of club that people like.

He doesn't know about Keith Houchin.

He doesn't know about Brian Kilklein.

What he knows about Mickey Ginn, you could write on the back of a Mitch mask.

He just knows that this group of fans have been digging him out and he's turned around and giving it the big one back to them.

Now he looks at Wally, but there might be that behind him.

And I think Anthony does take a bit of stick.

Some of it is deserved, but

I don't think any of us agree with targeting players and stuff like that.

I like the fact that Hoyland was one that did celebrate massively and he was giving it when he in front of the fans and then he turned around and realised there was not one single man.

Yeah, not even until he's getting involved in that.

Tom says, would the man with the washing machine on his back at the marathon run past Casemiro?

I mean, it's not fair.

He did have to play centre back.

It's not his.

Well, Big Jim would.

Yeah, Big Jim.

A lot was made of Big Jim, Big Sir Jim running the marathon in four and a half, which is four and a half hours, which is a creditable performance.

I mean, I don't know how old Big Sir Jim is.

But 71.

71.

I mean, that is impressive, to be fair, isn't it?

No information as to whether Dave Braylesford was following him on a support bike.

We don't

know

if that was the case.

But I mean, that's the question that Barry asked, John.

Do you think that for Ten Hag winning this competition would be enough?

No, no, no.

You know, and after Big Sir Jim has, you know, toweled down, taken off his tinfoil jacket or whatever, and headed to Wembley and sat with Sir Dave.

And a friend of mine was telling me he was in the Royal Box and spotted them there.

I mean, the Ten Haggers just been unconvincing all season.

And if there's one team that you would expect to be 3-0 up against Coventry and blow a three-goal lead, it's Ten Hag's team because they can't control 90 minutes of football.

And even if they do beat Manchester City in the FA Cup final, which would be one hell of a coup, let's put it that way, I do expect the same outcome as greeted Louis Van Haal back in 2016.

You know, comes down to celebrate

winning the FA Cup, you know,

and he's told that Jose Mourinho's taking his job.

Now, it would be funny, I suppose, if history repeated itself and Jose Mourinho was taking Ten Hag's job.

Now, that would be funny, but it seems unlikely.

I mean, look, they could do a lot worse.

I think you've mentioned this, Baz, than Mark Robbins.

It won't be Mark Robbins, but

it is worth Baz just

repeating what we have, but just how brilliant.

he was in this game, making those three changes.

Also, you know, they have some great players, and like Callum O'Hare and Ben Chief, miss those penalties it's brutal for them but i just again so and i how often do we watch coventry not often but he's done such an amazing job there yeah well that club really has been through it in recent years and he has very much dragged them up by their bootstraps and he's done a tremendous job you know they

were within a penalty kick of being in the Premier League this season.

We don't know how they'd have got on.

The thing I find weird about Robbins is that anytime,

not even big Premier League jobs, but just mid to lower end Premier League jobs come up, he never seems to be in the running.

And I find that strange because

he should be just on the strength of what he has achieved at Coventry, which is pretty remarkable.

You know, they were for a while this itinerant club with no ground.

They were down league two, weren't they, when when he took over?

To get them within a

penalty shootout of the Premier League

on their money or their limited finances is pretty remarkable.

I mean, Luton went up, and that was remarkable.

But

I do find it odd that Robbins never seems to be linked to these jobs that are going in the Premier League.

Anyway, Manchester United will play Manchester City after they beat Chelsea 1-0.

God, Chelsea left this out there, Troy, didn't they?

Yeah, I was

well, we're going to talk about it later, weren't we?

I was at the Luton game, so came back and only caught.

Luton didn't leave it out there.

That's what you're trying to say.

It's still in the dressing room.

So I was watching this on my phone as I was going home and then managed to get the...

Pochettino, he's got to stop worrying about stats and start worrying about how his team can finish off these chances.

You know, he's spoken, didn't he, about his XG rate that should put Chelsea in fourth place in the league.

And yet he's got a centre forward that

doesn't exude confidence, gets himself in some great positions.

And we've got to applaud that because he's still getting, despite what is happening with his finishing, he's still getting himself into some really good positions.

But if you're going to be judged, if you're going to be rated in the top rank of

goal scoring in the league and in the cup, you've got to finish.

I don't know how many should have finished on the day.

They all fell to the wrong person.

Chelsea have matched Man City all season in the games that they've played.

They've been very good at it.

It's almost like the better,

you know, the team they play, the better they are in that instance.

But again, City found a way to win.

And I thought City were...

Listen, I watched the

Real Madrid-Barcelona game yesterday and coming off of...

what both had to do during midweek, I thought the game was very poor and ended up really exciting right at the end because of Jude Bellingham.

City were hanging in and then they produced a bit of magic kevin de bruyner and bernardo silver makes up for his penalty miss doesn't he but yeah i think this should have been all about chelsea and they should be celebrating they should have been celebrating reaching an fa cup final um and they'll have to look at what they're going to do with jackson because yeah

he can't go another season being a non-goal scoring uh striker in the big moments in the big games interesting hypothetical question here uh john from tusia who says do you think if if Palmer had allowed or given Jackson the opportunity to take the penalty against Everton and scored, he'd have been more confident to finish one of the many chances he had against City?

I mean, presupposing, obviously, he scored that penalty.

It's quite an interesting, like sort of thinking about the week and going, that was ridiculous, and then going,

would he have been in a slightly better frame of mind?

Okay, yeah, so there's some sort of motivational aspects.

It's a very interesting point.

It's an interesting question.

It's clearly one we can't answer with any because it's hypothetical.

are we suggesting that cole palmer's too greedy for the uh for the limelight because without cole palmer chelsea would be getting gubbed at luton you know i mean it's it's it's that um it's that sort of it's yeah i mean that that that that game again you know i mean let's look at the fa cup final in the round two teams that don't deserve to be there are going to be in the final Chelsea were the better team, had the better chances.

Manchester City were way off it, and there are excuses for that because, you know, know they've just exited the Champions League to Real Madrid in what was a you know hell of a nutritional two legs.

It was there for Chelsea, they didn't take it.

Um, it's unfortunate, isn't it, that Nicholas Jackson, and this is a problem, isn't it?

You know, the strikers are paid the most money, they're the ones that are expected the most from.

Somehow, Chelsea, after all that, all that money have relied on this guy who's you know is green and there's an awful lot of pressure placed on him and he ends up essentially the scapegoat for them not for not going through and i think that's a bit unfortunate you've got to have sympathy for nicholas jackson he can't be feeling good about himself um but yeah maybe should have taken that penalty i mean i guess i guess part of you know although as neutrals probably wanted a chelsea coventry final because

you know, Man City winning everything is boring and Coventry were big underdogs.

But I guess part of the beauty of football compared to other sports barriers, the team that deserves to win doesn't always win, right?

And in most sports, the team that deserves to win wins, and it makes it a less it's just a less interesting thing because of it.

Yeah, rugby is probably a case in point.

You don't get too many upsets in that.

But

I have a certain amount of sympathy for Pochatino in this one because

he he did everything right from his point of view,

set up the team perfectly.

And it's there's only so much he can do.

He, you know, it's it's not his fault Nicholas Jackson missed those chances.

Like Nicholas Jackson basically had a perfect hat-trick of misses,

except he didn't actually take that opportunity on his left foot when he was put clean through on goal.

He elected not to shoot.

That's how little faith he had in his left foot once he'd gone around Ortega.

Then he had the right foot one and the header.

So yeah, I'd say his XG was pretty high because there were three bad misses.

You know, there there were other people tilwell was released down the left towards the end i think around the 90th minute or so and he missed the opportunity to square the ball for raheem sterling he took a touch or two too many there seems to be a kind of chelsea wembley hoodoo now at this stage they haven't scored in five of their past six games there they've lost six finals there in five seasons i think but i i think pochettino got his tactics right just the players were unable to execute them.

Richard says, Is it fair that you did a pod last week and you're having to do another one this week?

Couldn't they have given you one more

day?

This is Pep complaining.

I'm incredibly happy to play the semi-finals of the FA Cup.

Pep says, I love to be in the quarterfinal of the Champions League, but it's unacceptable to let us play today.

It's impossible for the health of the players.

People don't understand the punch in the face after losing in the Champions League and playing here so soon.

Why don't they give us one more day?

It's um, it's les Meres, isn't it?

One more day.

I mean, great if you've gone into that.

Um, Chelsea, Manchester United, and Coventry don't play in the Champions League.

It is for broadcasters.

Okay, don't ask me to do extra things for them.

I mean, I'm not sure.

Don't extra.

Strictly.

Yeah, I was going to say.

Gladiators.

Listen, I know people don't, when Pep moans and Klopp moans and everyone just goes in one ear and out the other.

But he's right, though.

He's right.

There was no reason to put that game on with all the other teams being inactive during the course of the week.

We don't look after our teams in Europe.

We then have a go at them when they get out of Europe and they don't make the finals and

they don't beat Real Madrids and stuff like that and what Liverpool did.

But there was no need to put that game on.

And I'm probably the only one that's going to say this in here.

Listen, we might not have had the games, you know, if Coventry Man United had moved to...

had been on Saturday, it might have been a boring 1-0 to United and we've got nothing to discuss.

So we're happy that it has and maybe we should know this logistically do they set these dates before the Champions League dates are set so do they know if Man City are going to play on the Tuesday well no the Champions League dates as the Champions League's dates are set but oh Manchester United are not in the Champions League Coventry are not in the Champions League so actually they could have they could have given them that extra day um to recover You know, everyone talks about player well-being and then we put all these different competitions in.

And I understand that the teams then at the end of the season might be flying off to one luxurious game before the Euros and all that kind of stuff.

It's not the teams that set that.

It's the money people that set that.

That says we want to go across the world because

we've got an opportunity to gain 10 million here.

But as a player well-being kind of situation,

those Man City players would have been

distraught come Wednesday night, Thursday morning.

But other nations...

they either push their games forward or push them backwards.

But we've never done that to protect our teams.

So that's, I make him right.

people will will say oh peps this and peps that well he could rotate right he could rotate he could rotate more right max i was like could rotate he's got a semi-final he's got a chance of going to win another fa cup tie shearer said it as well and i think to myself come on alan you know best if he had rotated come on alan yeah yeah i mean i don't know him personally so i should say shearer but yeah you know you mr shira he knows i think that was mr shea i think that was a little bit of a as a question you know but look they've got there but on what

on what has it taken them to get there?

But they've got there, and that's why Chelsea missed a massive opportunity because they

were running on empty a lot of the players.

Chelsea have to play on Tuesday night against Arsenal.

So Pep presumably would be more than happy for Chelsea to play on Sunday and then play again on Tuesday against the team that are direct rivals for cities title.

Yeah, again, that's the whole makeup of how these games.

I get it, Barry.

There's no easy one solution but i don't think that i i think our teams have have excelled in europe despite the league rather than with the league giving them do you know what i mean all the opportunity to do that on the foreign trips spurs play newcastle in melbourne three days after the season ends that's totally ridiculous isn't it anyway are you gonna be are you gonna be there yeah um

No, I don't think I can.

Yeah, really.

No, I can't because I've got to be in Sydney because I think it's the conference.

There's another, the next day is a, is one of the finals.

I can't remember which one.

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

Part two will begin with the FA Cup replays being scrapped.

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Max here.

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Hello.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game Day Scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So the FA has defended its decision to scrap FA Cup replays from next season.

It was announced that the competition will only be played on weekends with replays scrapped from the first round onwards.

Loads of EFL clubs

released statements describing their disappointment with the decision and what they fear is a lack of consultation.

The EFL says the new format was agreed solely between the Premier League and the FA.

The FA says discussions have been going on for well over a year.

Removing Emmirt's FA Cup replays was discussed in the early meetings and all parties accepted that they could not continue.

The FA says the calendar for next season was approved by the Professional Game Board, which consists of four representatives from the EFL and four from the Premier League.

The EFL has urged the FA to re-evaluate their approach, stating there was no formal consultation.

John, your thoughts?

Well, I mean, what you've just described there is, I think, a bit of chicanery from all parties.

It seems like a bit of a bargaining chip from the EFL for them to say we weren't involved in the discussions.

The FA claim that they were.

But let's move on beyond these because it's just a loaded statement.

Now, on Friday, I'm sat in the office watching a series of football managers asked whether they should like FA Cup replays or not.

Now, Premier League managers, that includes Mikel Arteta, Pep Guardiola, you name them, don't like them because they're acting in self-interest.

Why they're being asked about it, I don't know, because one of the big problems we have in football these days is a lack of accountability from those that make the decisions.

Where were the people who made this decision?

Why weren't they put in front of a press conference?

This happens all the time in football where managers are asked to speak for a club when really

they're not qualified to talk about.

I mean, they are qualified, but it's this, as far as they're concerned, it's the same thing we talked about just a minute ago, you know, about that tiredness and schedules and stuff like that.

They're acting in their own self-interest.

When it comes to this, where essentially the FA, for £33 million,

has traded out quite a lot of what the FA Cup stands for.

Right?

They've done it to fit in with the Premier League.

The Premier League, by the way, that still hasn't agreed a deal with the EFL for its 900 million or whatever the

solidarity payment.

It all comes down to money.

The administrators that made this decision do not put themselves up to be asked questions by the media.

The PR goes out.

That's it.

End of story.

Like it, lump it.

And they just hope that it goes away.

And then the deep irony is that it's followed by two FA Cup ties that tell you this is the greatest competition in the world.

Well done, everybody.

I mean, obviously, you know, as a lower league fan, and I remember we drew Neil Nil at home to Man United and went to Old Trafford, had a brilliant day out.

We've got a million quids.

You know, it was amazing.

But I thought...

There was an interesting tweet, Barry, from Adam Crafton in Athletic saying, if clubs rely on one-off luck of the draw replays to survive, the industry is fundamentally broken.

Replays shouldn't be sacred for that reason, but give the EFL a proper fair deal before you scrap replays.

Do these things in the correct order and you don't get a backlash.

I mean, it makes it makes a good point, isn't it?

The chance of getting through to the third round of the FA Cup and then getting a good draw and then at home and then drawing that game and getting a replay.

I mean, these are

very unlikely to happen.

And actually, what lower league clubs need is much more sustainable options than possibly drawing at home to, I don't know, Arsenal in the third round.

Yeah, that's a fair point.

I think about on average, one lower league side a year wins that lottery, uh, and

if that even,

but uh,

why take away that opportunity?

You know, it's it's it's a fundamental part of the FA Cup,

and this decision seems to have been made duplicitously without consulting the lower league teams, despite what the FA have said.

I heard the Coventry owner on the radio yesterday being interviewed, and he said that

any consultation in Invertic Commas was buried deep in the terms and conditions and small print which

a lot of them wouldn't have read.

Now I suppose they probably should read it.

But we all know you'll often sign off on things without reading the T's and C's.

I think Adam makes a very good point there.

It was interesting.

Quite a few of our younger colleagues don't seem that fussed about

replays being done away with.

And I was trying to think: do I care if replays are done away with?

And I think I probably don't.

But I really don't like the manner in which this decision was announced.

And I don't like the way it's clearly been made just to pander to

four or five Premier League sides when there are so many other clubs in the competition.

There were 80 first-round matches in the FA Cup this season.

Why are those replays in the event of a draw?

Why are they,

you know, the 40 first-round ties?

Why are there no replays in them going forward?

They're obviously not as money-spinning as,

you know,

some non-league side getting a replay at Old Trafford, but

they are money spinners.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, if you're a non-league side and you get a draw away at, I don't know, Derby or Bolton or, you know, you know, a team in League One that's at the top of it, that will still get you a lot of money.

So you're right about that.

There has been talk, Troy, Martin Ziegler, right in the Times this morning, and others have said it, that people are pushing for seeding the third round draw.

So 64 teams, top 32

against the bottom 32, and the lower team gets to choose if it's home or away.

Now, like, the thing I love about the FA Cup draw is that it's random, but

I can see a logic to that, that if you're a lower side, you know you're going to get a big team, it's what you want.

You can then say, okay, we're Cambridge, we want to go to Whiteheart lane right that I can see the logic in it even if and you know

football was great when I was 10 so I want it to be like that but that is not a that is not a daft idea if we're trying to find you know solutions to this yeah but I would say

has this already been thought about so in the way that the FA the Premier League and yeah there's no way that the EFL were not part of those conversations absolutely no way but what they've seen is the backlash backlash and because of the backlash they've now coming out and obviously they're they're clubs so it's miscommunicate well it's not even miscommunication it's lack of communication lack of conversation um i i get the seeded part but i don't like seeded draws i agree i i'm not a fan of seeded draws leave that to tennis and leave that to whatever else it does but not in our game because like you said when you're plucking those balls out of the hat it's really nice to know that it's unknown who you're going to pit together so there's another step of this process, which obviously has been the expansion of the Champions League.

So this is what has really impacted because UEFA have gone, we're expanding the Champions League, you've got to do what you've got to do.

The Premier League have gone, well, hold on a minute.

If they're expanding the Champions League, we've got to do something with our cup competitions.

And I heard Pep the other day say that the...

I think the first round of the Champions League is the third round of the League Cup or second round of the League Cup.

So it has an impact there as well.

So not only is the FA Cup been impacted in such a way the league cup is is impacted as well so our famous cup competitions i'm not being funny are being whittled down to the fact that you know they'll never get rid of the fa cup i don't ever believe they'll do that but they'll mix about with it as much as they can and what's interesting is you know the extended champions league has come because it you know to stop the super league and the super league was wanted by the big clubs so the big clubs you know the big clubs work in self-interest i i look look look we really need to move on because there was lots of football in the Premier League.

And, you know, Nottingham Forest on X is the next port of call, right?

Because the bottom of the Premier League was really interesting this weekend.

The bottom six all played each other.

Burnley hammered Sheffield United.

Luton got hammered by Brentford.

And then Everton beat Nottingham Forest 2-0.

And

on Five Live, someone described it as El Deductigo Dico, which is a very good term, isn't it?

We can get to the football eventually.

A couple of daisy cutters from long range for Everton, which proved that the goal is actually quite big, I was thinking.

like, actually, it's quite a big thing.

If you hit it softly, but right in the corner, it'll go in.

But it's all about these three penalty claims for Nottingham Forest and then what happened afterwards.

So I just wonder if we could go through the penalty claims first, John.

First one, Gio Rainer's kicked by Ashley Young.

Anthony Taylor says it's not a foul.

VAR says it's not a foul.

Second one, Hudson Adoy kicks it into Ashley Young's arm.

I've seen a million penalties for this, but Anthony Taylor says not handball.

VAR steer out well.

But Jack Grealish is that giggle, you know.

So, yeah, yeah.

And the third one is: Hudson and Doy is through Ashley Young, kicks him.

Cleans him out.

Anthony Tallis says the player thinks the player got the ball.

Does the I've got the ball.

Stuart Atwell in his full loot and kit says

not a penalty.

So, how aggrieved should Nottingham Forest be?

They're entitled to be aggrieved by the officiating that it's not going their way.

And several teams over the season will be that way.

Nottingham Forest, a team who've already attempted to act above the law in

profit and sustainability goings on, have decided that, as well as employing actually a former referee to manage refereeing,

which is the type of thing that you have

Barcelona in Spain are being much criticised for, have decided that they're going to release statements like that.

Now, I don't know, one day we might get to find out who the person who wrote that tweet was or was asked to put that on.

It's a phrase I haven't heard often, and it used to happen quite a lot: bringing the game into disrepute.

And that's what that is.

That is accusing the PGOML.

Now, you can accuse a PGMOL of being incompetent.

That's fine.

But what you can't do is accuse them of being corrupt, which is essentially what that is.

Now,

and

that is a deep and dark thing to accuse them of.

Now, can we say that Stuart Atwell is a bad referee?

You can have that opinion if you want.

Can you say it's someone that acts in self-interest and in what is essentially a corrupt fashion?

No, you can't without a lot of proof.

So good luck, Nossing Forest.

I don't know.

I've not read the Premier League handbook.

Don't read the Premier League handbook unless you're completely insane.

But is there a points deduction for this?

I mean, you know, it's a very serious thing to do.

I think it was a fairly outrageous thing to do.

What on earth do they think they're playing at?

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of Forrest fans and other people who will try and justify it.

There isn't any justification for behaving like that.

Yeah, so I think everyone agrees that if any of those penalties had been given, they wouldn't be overturned.

Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

Definitely should be a penalty.

It's sort of generally the feeling amongst fans.

So they should be agreed.

In terms of seeing them given this,

the first two are a 50-50.

100%.

And the third one is definitely a penalty.

Interestingly, when Forrest got promoted, there was a lot of goodwill towards them.

And I think a lot of that goodwill has evaporated this season.

And quite a few people would be glad to see the back of them after they're whinging.

But there is no doubt about it.

They have been hard done by.

But in the play-off final, when they beat Huddersfield, Huddersfield were denied two clear penalties.

You didn't see Forrest complaining about that or hurling around allegations about corruption, did you?

No.

The tweet was sent five minutes after full time.

You can just imagine Evangelus Marikanis sitting over the social media guy and the social media guy going, are you sure you want me to press send on this?

Three extremely poor decisions, three penalties not given, which we simply cannot accept.

We warned the PGMOL that the VAR is a Luton fan before the game, but they didn't change him.

Our patience has been tested multiple times.

Nottingham Forest Football Club will now consider its options.

What option?

As Chimmer says, Chimmer says, yeah, what option will you think Forest will be taking?

As Producer Joel says, you could quite easily read that in the style of that guy from Come Dine With Me.

I reckon the only option they will have to consider is whether to pay the enormous fine they're giving with cash, banker's draft, direct debit.

Phil Jaggie Elko on Matthew today made a really good point.

What would be the best result for a Luton fan?

That's what I was just going to say, Matt.

It's an absolute great point because I'm sitting there thinking a point each means that

we're still in touch with both.

An Everton win means, yeah, you kind of now just look at Nottenham Forest.

Do you know what I mean?

So actually, the permutations that were going on in, and I think all Luton fans' head was, what is the best result?

And I think the best result with Everton at home still would have been a point.

So it makes a mockery of that statement.

And then we're talking about...

Unless Stuart Adwell is a Luton fan, but also not very clever.

He just bloody loves to draw

he loves to draw yeah but do you know what do you know what interests me as well is that obviously not in forest have employed somebody who is very close to and has made decisions probably like this in the past and when he was um i can't remember his title in the greek league he also put together a statement against one of Greece's biggest clubs, Olympiakos, that basically cost him his time out there.

So to think that you've got that that power and strength and the chairman, that you've got that power and strength to be able to put something out that is unprecedented, by the way, in this day and age and accuse not only the VAR, but you're also accusing the league because you've raised the point previously.

And I wouldn't want this done by any club, by the way.

So this is not Nottenham Forest bashing.

This is just what do you think you are doing and what do you expect the outcome to be?

So those options, unless they're going legal, which I don't think they've got a case to stand for anyway, if they're going legal, what options do they have?

I mean, their lawyers are quite busy anyway.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, look, it's interesting, isn't it?

You could see the argument saying the PGMOL could just say, actually, why don't we just move him on?

But then you set a precedent where all clubs can go, oh, hang on, I don't want him doing this and I don't want him doing this.

Well, that's another point, isn't it?

Chris Wood misses a point-blank chance.

Morgan Gibbs White misses a great chance.

Pickford makes an unbelievable save.

Yeah.

Yeah, that is true.

We've got lots of football to get through, and we barely covered any of it.

So, look, Everton, it was a good win for them, right?

And that is

a massive step towards them staying up.

Luton, meanwhile, Troy.

Everyone felt that this was the moment.

Skinny John says, on last week's pod, you said Brentford were on the beach.

It must have been the Copa Gabbanas.

They played like Brazilians and blew us away.

Can you specify a cold, wet, windswept northeastern beach in April next time you give us a fucking chance?

He says,

this was the game.

And Luton, as Rob Edwards said afterwards, they just weren't at it, right?

It was the game.

And I'm so pissed at the end when I thought, oh, I've got to do the pod on Monday.

And then I thought, it's all right, because I only do the relegation battle in part three.

And there you go, bringing it right up to the top.

So Brentford were unbelievable.

I'm going to say this now.

Luton, I don't know what happened.

The fans created that atmosphere again.

And, you know, they were all, everyone seemed pumped up.

And then they were flat.

First 10, 15 minutes was okay.

It was like nip and tuck, counter-attacking, you know, balls in the box, whatever.

But Luton's, I mean, Ivan Tony wasn't even on the bench for this game.

And, you know, there you are celebrating that Tony can't influence the game.

And then Wizard Mbuemo and Lewis Potter just ran riot throughout the whole game.

They ran riot.

And Luton couldn't, you know, Luton had a couple of defenders back.

You know, Osho was back.

LeCongo was back.

And it seemed like, right, we're starting to get the team that we need to get back to hit the final five games.

This was not even a, it's not even a contest after the first Brentford goal.

It was not even a contest.

Brentford scored some amazing goals.

I do wonder where this Brentford team has been,

because actually, the performance is like

when you see the result at West Ham, you know, for West Ham, this performance is a top-table performance because they were that good.

And actually, probably should have got more than the five that they got.

For Luton, it's a massive kick in the teeth because three home game, at that time, it was three home games left.

brentford uh everton and fulham um with walls and west ham away and you think to yourself you know what they can pick up 10 points here now you're looking at 12 points left and you're kind of thinking to yourself if they don't get something at walls next week um it's been a magnificent journey it's been a pleasure to be a part of it's been a pleasure to

be see the way that they

well i kind of have in the background but yeah um but it's been it's been an absolute pleasure but it's a step too far it's almost been a step too far.

You don't lose faith with four games to go, but yeah, that one was an absolute killer.

It is worth noting that in the time Andros Townsend Sr.

was on the pitch, oh good, that was a one-all draw.

Well, I did note that, I did note that, Barry.

I put that, but I always put it in my notes.

So, yeah, it's in the background, that one.

Yeah, a lot's been made about the fact that Brentford missed Ivan Tony, but actually,

look at the goal scorers in that game.

Ethan Pinnock was missing for a long time this season.

Kevin Scharder came back last week, scored a goal.

Brentford have had a really, really crippling injury list.

They've played a lot of good football this season and not got the rewards of previous seasons.

I don't think anyone's doubting that Thomas Frank is a good manager.

Well done, Brentford.

Glad to see them stay up.

A friend of mine, a Luton fan who's at the game, asked me,

can teams always play this badly?

Does this actually happen where teams can't pass to each other?

I had to say, yes.

Yes, that does happen occasionally.

It seems like it did to loot, and sorry, True.

In a word, Barry,

that header better than yours, good old Ethan?

No, no, no, of course.

Mine was further out.

Oh, of course.

It was very funny.

He looked very sad when he'd been taken off, having scored a brace.

Not to be loud as Hatrick in that Anorak with his hood over his head.

But he came on afterwards and

seemed pretty calm about it.

Look, that'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll do the rest of the Premier League games.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, here too.

Hello.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

A little play can make your day.

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Must be 18 years or older to purchase play or claim.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly still at the bottom.

Burnley won 4-1 at Brammell Lane.

Have they got a chance, Barry?

After all this?

Um,

yeah, I think they do.

And I think they're really going to rue the, what is it, four points their goalkeeper threw away in the two games preceding this.

It's unfair to blame him.

Lots of Burnley fans, or lots of Burnley players, have made mistakes playing out from the back this season.

But, you know, recency bias suggests, oh, those mistakes could be so costly.

I do think they have a chance.

I think

Nottingham Forest have clearly lost the plot and they're there to be reeled in.

And if Burnley can, they are playing quite well.

Now, a win over Sheffield United is

nothing

to crow about, but at least they won, and they won emphatically after

you know, Sheffield United missed three set good chances before Burnley took the lead.

But Sheffield United have conceded 30 goals in eight games at Bramley Lane since Christmas.

So, you know, you need to be beating them to give yourself a chance to stay up.

But they have given themselves a chance to stay up.

They go to Man United, home to Newcastle, away to Spurs, home to Forest.

So not the easiest run in.

And you know, Murich did play well, made some good saves, including a really good save when he just passed it to, I think, Ben Berrett and Diaz.

That was basically the same mistake, but it is different if you save it.

Let's go to the title race.

And probably good, John, for the title race that Arsenal and Liverpool both won.

They both had bad weeks.

They both looked knackered.

Both had potentially tricky games.

And like, ultimately, both look quite good.

Is that fair?

Good.

Well, also, grinding out in a fashion.

Look at the reactions of both managers.

It's relief, isn't it?

And actually,

after the Fulham game, you saw Jürgen Klopp smile for what felt like the first time in ages.

And he did the old fist-bumping thing at Craven Cottage with the fans.

You know,

he's going to go out on his sword, isn't he?

You know, so on his shield, I should say.

Yeah, I mean, it's funny, isn't it?

The title race, it's at the bottom because so much else has happened in football funny old game yeah and it's refreshing in a way like arsenal top on 74 from 33 liverpool 74 from 33 man city 73 from 32.

um arsenal looked shaky troy in that first half david rare made one absolutely brilliant save which is is key you know that trossard are you giving him credit for that looked like a massive shank to me but like he is he's better at football than than i am so like are you giving him the credit

no I thought it was an absolute swinger.

You're right.

I thought he's, you know, he had to, I've got to get something on this.

And sometimes they go out the stadium and sometimes they hit the roof.

So it looks like a stunner.

I think he knows he got away with one.

But Jesus in that build-up was, you know, again, he's had a lot of question marks against him, hasn't he?

And he's hold-up play and then just poking the ball to Trossard.

And I think Trossard knew, I've got to hit this now and let's see where it goes.

And I agree.

They look very tired, but it's just, you know what, it doesn't matter anymore.

You've just got to get over the line.

And that's what they did.

Such a massive week for Arsenal, right?

They've got, well, they've got six consecutive away clean sheets.

Seven is the record.

That will be tested at Spurs on Sunday.

Before that, they've got Chelsea at home.

So I think getting six from those two games, they're clearly the better, of those three sides, they're the best one.

But still, that's a tough six points to get.

Yeah, but they're two London derbies as well, aren't they?

They're two massive London Derbies.

And the way Chelsea have kind of played recently

you could fancy them if Nicholas Jackson is playing and he's got his boots on and whatever you could fancy them and the North London derby could take any turn that it might do you know and Spurs are not great at the moment but I'm sure they'll be ready for this one and they've had a little break as well so their energy levels might be better so it will be interesting that you're right sorry they are the better team out of three for sure but yeah meanwhile Baz Clock made a lot of changes and the fresh players looked fresh, which, you know, obviously they at Atlanta in that second half, they did nothing.

Like, they were one up, and you just thought, okay, they're going to push now.

They just didn't get anywhere.

But he brought in what, Graven Birch, I think Elliott.

It changed his entire midfield, left Salah and Nunes on the bench.

And yeah, it worked.

Could have backfired.

Fulham weren't as terrible as Fulham could be, but nor were they as good as they can be.

And they made life quite easy for Liverpool, I thought, gave the ball away cheaply.

There were quite a few defensive errors, and

it it was pretty routine for for Liverpool.

I must confess, I only saw highlights of this game because I was watching Manchester United Covenants.

I think like a lot of people,

which was much better.

Although the highlights...

I suspect everyone else was as well, at least for the last half hour.

Yeah, the highlights would include, John, a brilliant free kick from Trenton Alexander Arnold.

And

I know a lot of clubs can say this.

You know, what would their season have been if X had been fit, but it would have made such a difference.

Yeah, but then we're also talking the season of Conor Bradley, who's been a revelation.

So, good point.

What's Liverpool's.

I mean, Liverpool could still win a title, you know.

But

what do we think of Liverpool's biggest problems this season have been?

His missing chances,

Old Traveller in particular, and other get against Crystal Palace last week.

I don't think Trent is responsible for that bit.

Trent is responsible for the creation of chances.

But Conor Bradley in for Trent, I think, has been brilliant.

I didn't actually ask questions of where Trent goes next season.

You think he probably goes into midfield.

But yeah, free kick, brilliant.

And he really enjoyed it as well, didn't he?

He's such a good finisher.

Yeah.

Gravin Burch's finish was lovely as well.

And Jotter, I guess, is the ruthless.

Salah's been off the boil, but Jotter is sort of the opposite of Darwin Nunes, right?

There's two sort of diametrically opposite, very good footballers.

It's nice to see the sort of yin and yang.

You know, hopefully they live together.

And Darwin Nunes' bedroom is meticulously tidy, and Jotter's is an absolute filth pit.

But then when they go on the pitch, it's the opposite.

In the other games, Palace hammered West Ham 5-2.

Palace tweeted five extremely good goals.

Two goals conceded, which we simply have to accept.

Crystal Palace will now enjoy their Sunday.

An oddly factual tweet.

You were at it, John.

Well, they were taking the piss out of Nottingham Forest, weren't they?

I completely missed that.

I mean, completely missed.

Yeah, so even when that game was going on, we were were all discussing the Notting Forest tweet.

I mean, that just shows you.

Brilliant.

And then we get the.

I mean, this game sort of, you know, it's, it's just sort of it happened and there's other stuff going on.

But what did happen...

I take it back.

It's a brilliant tweet, and I'm glad.

Yeah, I'm glad someone's pointed out to me.

Well done, Palace.

You're just a duller.

Just a complete idiot.

But we all knew that anyway.

Sorry, carry on, John.

Yes, what can I say?

The Goodbots, Olise, and Eze, when they're playing together like that, are oh, just brilliant.

Just

the best show in town.

The best show in town.

Those two in tandem,

they're the two most exciting players together in the Premier League.

I'll say that.

Just brilliant.

And I love watching it.

And not seen enough of it this season.

That's possibly where it's gone wrong for Roy Hodson, but Oliver Glasner towards the end of the season.

And maybe we might not see that next season.

But enjoy it while you can, those two together.

It's wonderful to watch.

West Ham,

not wonderful to watch.

Oh, my good God.

Oh dear.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

I mean, they just did not want to run a leg.

They did not.

It was.

Look at the talent they've actually got in that squad.

And they just did not want to do anything.

They were terrible.

When you're at the game, you get the TV and you could just see the camera is pretty much focused on David Moyes' face.

And he's just sat there, arms around him.

You could see no one in his bench wanting to go near him.

Just this boiling rage that you could feel back at the stand.

And then, afterwards, the game, he almost tried to disassociate himself from it.

Asked a few times about his future.

What, me, the West Ham manager?

No, you think it's something else?

I don't want to have anything to do with this sort of thing.

And then...

When asked about his future, got very, very angry and then pretty much got up and left.

It was great stuff from David Moyes.

I don't think he's going to be there next season.

Let's put it that way.

And do you know what?

I'd say who we would have been a good manager for West Ham next season.

Oliver Glasner.

That's the way it goes sometimes.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Rob says: if I hear another pundit tell West Ham fans to be careful what you wish for,

how is he getting away with this?

I mean,

the thing is, if I may say, like, there are managers like David Moyes, Sean Dice, Sam Allardyce, what you get is shape, solidity, and results, yeah?

But if you don't get shape, solidity.

Sounds like what you want from like a stool firmer, firmer, doesn't it?

What's that scale called?

It's emodium.

It's not the emodium.

They're the emodium of football managers.

And if you don't get that, then you've got this slurry.

This slurry and a lack of entertainment, and they don't offer anything.

And it's going to be very uncomfortable.

But this is the fine line, though, isn't it?

You know,

if they beat, let's say that they beat Lavacusen and they were very close to getting a second, which would have taken it to extra time.

The lads run around a little bit more on Sunday, and Moyes is deemed a hero because he's beaten the unbeaten side of the greatest side that we've ever seen by Labacus.

Troy, Troy, there was no fine line at Sellis Bar yesterday.

Good God almighty.

And it is worth saying that, as you said, he belted that overhead kick, didn't he?

Goya, he really caught

me.

And then he nutmegged.

It's almost like he nutmegged every West Ham player at some point during the game.

Villa 3, Bournemouth 1.

And actually, Barry, really big for this for Villa, because it could have gone either way.

And they rode their luck in the first half and then turned it on.

And Ollie Watkins was great again.

Yeah, it was a brilliant performance by Ollie Watkins.

He'll probably be disappointed that he didn't score, but I think

he was

superb and got to show other facets of his game.

So if I was Ollie, I wouldn't be, you know, too upset at not scoring.

We all know he's trying to impress Garris Southgate.

I think he's done enough.

Villa, like you said, this game could have gone either way, but it didn't.

And Leon Bailey, Watkins, Emmy Martinez all were among the standout players for me.

Yeah.

And actually, it's worth mentioning, they'd had a long old night on Thursday in Lille, and they got through.

And they're the only English side still in European competition.

And so to turn it on again, you know, is

impressive.

He's passed, Troy, for the, like, he's got he got two assists, right?

So he's got 19 goals and 12 assists.

He's second only across Europe to Harry Kane in goal involvements.

And that pass to DRB was just absolutely, it was like a putt.

Yeah, but I take it back before then because, you know, on the halfway line, his ability, his ability has been increasing, not increasing, but the quality of his play has been increasing as the season's gone on.

And I think I was on the pod after the Luton Villa game and I've said about his hold-up play and the way that he's holding play up now but also with the confidence and the ability to lay it off to go and make another run to get on the end of it to get near the box to then like you've just said there max pick out an exquisite pass to DRB

um it's those things that as well as scoring goals and that's why I don't think he'll be too disappointed because the way that he was celebrating the goals showed me a team player as someone who has the awareness and vision to to not only put the ball in the back of the net but to set play up he has been amazing and he deserves everything he gets in this summer i hope he's not just sitting on the bench and i hope he gets some time to play because his contributions have been first class

harry kane exactly

i didn't say drop harry kane i said i hope he gets minutes on the pitch um

rather than sit on there you know but yeah sorry i don't have a lot of time for any other business uh but toby tarrant from xfm got in touch on the subject of uh australian internationals you've spent your birthday with after i spent most of my 45th birthday with Mark Bosnich.

He said, I had to work a shift at the pub on my 23rd birthday.

It was the Black Swan in Cobham and I served Mark Veduca.

Not quite Mark Bosnich, but you did ask about birthdays with Australian footballers.

Well, look, I'll take any more.

Football Weekly at the Guardian.

I think it was specifically goalkeeping.

Oh, was it goalkeeping?

All right.

Not good enough, Toby.

Yeah, we're not interested, Toby.

Come back to us when you've, when, on your 39th birthday, you spend it with Mark Schwartzer, who I think does live around there, you know, and famously, as we know, as we know, Barry, has nine toilets.

So,

yeah, I've, yes, I've weed in two of them.

He has nine toilets, yeah.

You've weed in two of them.

How many TVs has he got?

Didn't count.

Didn't count.

I think we probably did ask him, Barry, but I don't recall the number.

But nine is the record.

Danny Mills has six and three in like an outhouse.

Linville Prime is five.

And we asked everyone, I mean, you know, this is not going to get people listening to our radio show, Barry.

We don't do this feature anymore, but you could always tell if a footballer had just got divorced if they had two or under.

That was just a really easy way to find out.

But that wasn't what we were trying to find out.

It's just something we established.

Does Neil Warner Neil Warner have an outhouse just because he's like a bluff northern lad and wants to relive the 1950s?

Never asked that.

A latrine.

The high point of the one of one of the questions was, what's your favorite insect?

Because one day I was going into work and I was flicking between talk sport and five live and five live were doing what's your favorite insect and i was like if we can't do better than this then we don't deserve to be on air and so we asked emmanuel frimpong his favorite insect and barry he said antelope he said antelope

and it's just

yeah

who doesn't love an antelope it was a great moment and uh he was he was it was very good value but that was a funny answer uh anyway that'll do for today i did then say when asked what his favorite cheese was say the yellow one which is also a really, really strong answer.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

Thank you, Troy.

Pleasure, Max, as always.

Thank you, Barry.

Thanks.

Thanks, John.

Thanks for having me.

Cheers.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

We'll be back on Wednesday looking back at the Arsenal Chelsea game in the Premier League and doing a lot of EFL too.

This is The Guardian.