Arsenal feel hard done by and Luton hold Liverpool – Football Weekly

This is The Guardian.

Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Not a pod for those of you who desperately ask us not to talk about VAR and refereeing decisions.

Mikel Arteta is embarrassed and feels sick to be a part of this.

Arsenal sends an official statement saying that everyone at the Emirates is also sick and embarrassed.

Has he got a point, or is this just some classic deflecting?

Would it be a better use of his time to tell David Rayer where to stand when someone hoys it into the box?

Anyway, Newcastle win a scrappy game.

Some result given their injuries.

Elsewhere, Luton and Baz are all so close.

Almost a wonderful upset that you can't begrudge Louis Diaz saving the Reds from defeat.

Ollie Norwood goes full pressman in injury time and Shefford United win their first game is the real conspiracy against Gary O'Neill.

There's Jeremy Doku giving Manchester City the extra attack threat we all thought they needed.

Forrest upsetting Villa, Neil Mope scoring and Manchester United just about winning.

Also today, Emma Hayes says she's leaving Chelsea at the end of the season.

There's some FA Cup first round heroics from Chesterfield, amongst others.

The Copa Libertatores, more Gary Bertel's correspondence than we were expecting.

Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Jordan Jarrett Brian, welcome.

Morning, mate.

Hello, Barry Glendenning.

Hello, Max Rushdon.

And hello, Jonathan Wilson.

Morning.

Hey, Dang.

Very good.

Thanks.

Let's start then at St.

James's Park.

Ian says, to aid Arteta and anyone else who can't work out basic things like perspective, should footballs be cubes instead of spheres?

Personally, I'm against it.

Keep up the good work.

He says, Lost in a supermarket.

Says, are we to label those that deny the curvature of the ball flat ballers?

And can we expect a statement on their behalf from David Icke?

Chris says, please, please, please don't spend a third of Monday's pod talking about refereeing decisions from Newcastle Arsenal.

Please talk about the actual football.

Please, honestly, referees are getting so much shit now, not just in an emotional post-match interviews, but in official club statements.

Well done, Arsenal, that I wouldn't blame them if they just downed tools.

I don't really disagree with that, Barry, but I also don't see how it's possible not to talk about the biggest moment of the weekend.

Yeah, and I'd love to talk about the football, but the football wasn't actually that good in this game.

I think neither team played particularly well.

A draw probably would have been fair.

Newcastle probably consider themselves a bit lucky to have got the points, but I wouldn't begrudge them them.

And the most entertaining parts of the game were that contentious refereeing decision, the goal being allowed, and the bad-tempered niggle during the game where we could have had and probably should have had two red cards.

But yeah, you can't avoid the...

the goal and Michel Arteta's reaction, the club's, I think, embarrassing reaction, and

the

rage being felt by Arsenal fans who would almost certainly be similarly angry if they had scored an identical goal and it was ruled out.

And for what it's worth, was the ball out of play?

We don't know.

Was it a push in the back of Gabrielle by Joel Linton?

I think so, but it's a matter of opinion and mine doesn't count.

And was

Anthony Gordon Gordon offside we don't know so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about and Arsenal then put out this club statement yesterday which I read several times and find a little baffling they purport to you know to be delighted to be in the best league in the world a league they were only too happy to abandon with several other clubs and and abandon and potentially ruin

not so long ago when they wanted to form a super league so they're kind of talking out of both both sides of their mouths but um i'm sure arsenal fans will

disagree with me completely but that that is my take on on the matter well jordan is an arsenal fan um should we start with the incidents then jordan um i i think i agree with barry on all of those we don't know if the ball is out of play um it looks like it might be but we can't see the right angle we don't know about the offside the foul is probably a foul I agree with Barry as well.

I think Mickel Arteta has gone big and gone early on this one.

I I think his outrage post-match wasn't proportionate to actually what happened on the field of play.

All three of the elements of which I think he's irate about, as Barry's explained, weren't conclusive.

I'm not so sure.

It was definitely a foul.

It probably was, but I don't think it was like a stinker.

The offside is ridiculously close.

And I don't know if the ball was out or not.

So I don't understand why he's gone so hard so early.

And the club statement as an Arsenal fan for me, I wouldn't say it was embarrassing, but it was a bit disappointing because, again, of all the things that you could issue a statement about, I just felt this really wasn't the one,

this was an incident to do that for.

I mean, the Brentford goal last year, where they actually forgot to use the equipment to do their job.

I feel like that's the time that you put out a club statement.

So I just felt that his ire and his rage in that interview and press conference just wasn't proportionate to what actually happened on the field of play.

And I think, actually, if you look from a football perspective, the the thing that i was most upset about was david rayar the two things we were both we were we were told that he was brilliant at was distribution and collecting crosses and i think in recent games distribution has been a bit shaky and what what from that cross what's he doing so i i would love to defend arsenal in this instance but i i just think they've like i said they've gone they've gone too big too early for something i think they could have saved in their back pocket i think what they should have done was with the other 19 premier league clubs just all linked up and said hang on a minute this we need change here now.

As a collective, we're all not happy because we're all getting fucked over now, week by week.

So, why don't we all as a group come together and say, we as the Premier League, we want change rather than this individual trying to get one up.

And finally, as well, he looks a bit silly because about five weeks ago, there was a similar incident that went for him.

And he was quoted as saying, Referees make mistakes, they're human beings, we need to work with them, let's not lambast them.

And now he's doing exactly what he said he wouldn't do.

Yeah, that was October the 6th, which I think was actually all the managers in press conferences after the spurs liverpool incident where he said they're trying to make the the best decisions we need to understand that mistakes happen we all make mistakes which is slightly different to embarrassing it's an absolute disgrace that's what it is a disgrace there's so much at stake you cannot imagine the amount of messages we've had saying this cannot continue it's embarrassing I don't know how to feel.

I don't want to be in the hands of these people.

I'm wasting my time.

We are wasting our time.

I've been in this country more than 20 years and it's nowhere near the level of the best league in in the world.

I feel sick to be a part of this.

I feel sick.

It's not a goal.

It's not a goal.

Is there a point, Wilson, in the fact that there is so much money in the Premier League that at Premier League grounds, we should have the technology to see if a ball is out of play and we should,

whatever happens with an offside, be able to have some lines?

I think there's definitely a...

a case for semi-automated, semi-automated offside.

I don't really understand why that hasn't been brought in quite apart from anything else to speed up the process.

But

are we really saying that you're going to spend whatever it costs to have goal line technology for every line on the pitch?

I mean, it's just nonsense.

You know,

just defend the cross.

It's, you know, say, say, that ball had been a millimeter out.

Do Arsenal deserve a point because of that?

It's just ridiculous.

Get on with it.

I'd go harder than either Barry or Jordan.

I'm pretty confident that ball's in play.

I can't, obviously, I can't say 100%, but a gut instinct is it's in because you can see a tiny sliver of grass, but it's a tiny sliver.

And

I had the whole thing with the Japan goal in the World Cup, where we saw thousands of these TikTok videos of, I think it's the only thing I've watched on TikTok,

of you know,

showing a ball next to a line and then you know, the camera above.

But the idea that kind of it all comes down to that one blade of grass.

Yeah,

what if Kai Havertz's been sent off as he should have been?

Yes,

it's a far bigger issue.

Yes, the Arsenal's lack of creativity, which is not just this game, has been a sort of recurring thing this season.

I mean, the Saka's had one shot in his last three games, I think.

That's a much bigger issue than this marginal call, whether the ball's gone out or not.

Um,

so

yeah, I kind of

the problem is as well that since VAR came in, there's all this sort of conspiracy talk.

Now, Arteta,

I don't think he ever actually questioned the integrity of officiating,

but there's no doubt that the tone of his comments whips up that hysteria, which is incredibly damaging for the integrity of the league.

And again, it's not, it's not just Arsenal, it's the common thing across a lot of clubs.

And it's just nonsense.

You know, it's, and all, you know, oh, the referee is not good enough.

What are you going to do?

Where are you going to find better referees?

I'll tell you what, why don't we slag off all the referees?

Why don't we make their jobs really miserable?

Why don't we say,

yeah,

you're awful, you're ruining football.

I'm not going to talk to you ever again.

So, you demoralize this bunch, you break their confidence, and then, you know, if you're a 16-year-old who kind of thinks, yeah, I think I might be quite good at this being a referee.

Like, are you going to carry on and do that as a job?

Of course, you're not.

It's, you know, how are the Wells being poisoned?

It comes from everybody in football.

Yeah, the Arsenal statement, which began, I really liked how it began, saying Arsenal Football Club wholeheartedly supports Mikel Arteta's post-match comments.

It's like every club could just do that about every manager every time any manager says anything after yet more unacceptable refereeing and via errors on Saturday evening, which factually isn't necessarily correct.

We'd also like to acknowledge the huge effort and performance from our players and traveling supporters at St.

James's Park.

Just a needless sentence.

The Premier League is the best league in the world with the best players, coaches, and supporters, all of whom deserve better.

PGMOL urgently needs to address the standard of officiating and focus on action, which moves us all on from retrospective analysis, which just

seems to be what you're doing now.

Attempted explanations and apologies.

We support the ongoing efforts of Chief Refereeing Officer Howard Webb and would welcome working together to achieve the world-class officiating standards our league demands.

I mean, I agree with you, Barry.

It doesn't see any point.

I see any point in this at all.

No,

it's just a statement that's not saying anything.

And it's

inaccurate as well.

But when it was posted on Twitter, you've got all these gooners going, my club, Loveheart.

And, you know, they're fully supporting their club, fully supporting Arteta over this nonsense.

And

all it does is fuel conspiracy theories and

add to the pile on referees who are already struggling to do a very difficult job.

And in this particular instance, like in general, VAR is a mess, but in this particular incident,

I'm not sure the ref did anything wrong or the officials did anything wrong.

Yeah, and the problem as well with this sort of culture we now have of blaming referees,

Anthony Taylor, who we've now learned is one of the big two referees, we learned that last week, that he and Michael Otto are the big two.

Which game did he do at the weekend?

He did Preston v.

Coventry

because he was being punished for giving Newcastle a penalty at Wolves the previous week.

A decision that...

When you look at it from his angle, it looks like a penalty.

If it's a failure at all, well, there is a failure.

But the failure is vast failure it's not his and so we take one of our best two referees and we literally send them to coventry i mean we literally we literally

we literally send them to creston to do a coventry game all right just

we send them to wherever coventry are um jordan you wanted to come in a little yeah just briefly add as well that the fact that i think first of all someone correct to mention the fact that the thing that Arteta didn't mention conveniently was the Blatt and Havertz red card.

I mean, it was a debate over the weekend.

I'm like, how was that even a debate?

It's a clean red card.

But also, if you're going to go crazy in that post-match press conference, do it over the forum that Gimaresh did towards Georgina.

That's what you should be going crazy about.

I've got a theory about what we as the media and fans do bashing referees every single week.

I would like it for four weekends.

If we just, and nobody spoke about referees, just banned it for four weeks.

And if we saw if it had an improvement.

on referees.

I've just got this really weird theory that we're contributing to the standard dropping of referees by every single week scrutinizing even as a bad call we don't talk about it on talk sport on sky sports on match of the day on the guardian football weekly we just don't mention them and see if there's an uptake or upturn in in the standard of refereeing because i think there would be can i just say though if we are going to do that we can't tell referees because otherwise

there'll be a lot of a lot of scores being settled in that four weeks

anyway i mean i think you've all sort of touched on it as well well.

And I think, Barry, that thing about David Ryer is really interesting.

That feels like the third goal, right?

There was Mudrick against Chelsea.

There was the Tottenham goal where there was a bit more football after he was in the wrong place or across, flapped at it, and then it came back out and Son eventually scored.

And that is a big problem for someone you've brought in as supposedly your number one.

Like, that's, I don't know how many points.

Six points, one point, like five.

I don't know how many points.

I haven't worked it out.

But when you're trying to win the title, it's a big issue.

It is a problem for Arteta because

Rea seems to be very much his signing.

He wanted Rea for a long time and people were puzzled as to what Aaron Ramsdale had done wrong when

Rea was brought in and then replaced him.

And Ray hasn't covered himself in glory,

but it will be difficult for Michael Arteta to drop him.

without losing a huge amount of face because he's backed him so strongly.

We talk about officials making mistakes, you know,

when that goal was scored, Ben White made a mistake, Gabriel made a mistake, David Raya made a mistake.

His was the most egregious error of anyone's.

And

it is turning into a problem for Arteta, as many predicted it might.

I suppose they could drop David Raya and then before kickoff, Arsenal could release a statement saying they agree with Mikel Arteta's decision to drop David Raya.

Look, Newcastle were good in this game.

I agree with Barry, actually, Wilson, that neither team was great, but given that the injuries that Newcastle have and that sort of fatigue that we thought they had after the Dortmund game and the Wolves game, they really were at it, I thought, in this game.

Yeah, they were.

I mean, they doubled up on Sacco Martinelli, who had very little impact on the game.

But just in general sort of aggression and work rate.

getting men behind the ball.

Yeah, they were hugely impressive.

I think, you know, even without the caveat about the injuries, I just sort of think the way Eddie Howe wants to play,

he seems quite happy against bigger sides or

the top sort of five or six to play that quite reactive football.

And

it worked.

It worked really well.

So I think you have to give him a lot of credit for that.

And I think from an Arsenal point of view, Saka looks tired.

And I think that's a big worry for them.

I mean, it is the first defeat in the league this season.

It's the first game in all competitions where they haven't scored.

So

not a crisis yet, is it to Kenilworth Roads, Barry?

Uh, Luton won, Liverpool won.

George says, Has Barry correctly predicted that Liverpool would struggle at Kenilworth Road?

Should we be referring to him as the greatest footballing mind since Sam Allardyce, or that octopus that predicted Spain winning the 2010 World Cup?

Does Bastradamus have next week's lottery numbers?

That's interesting.

Producer Silas was saying during this game, I think everyone watching this game who listens to the pod was just thinking of you, Barry, as when

when when luton took the lead and when we thought oh they might hang on yeah i think if they had hung on i might have had to announce my retirement today because i would have been my sistine chapel uh regarding predictions but um you know stop clocks and and blind squirrels etc it was a brilliant performance by luton The match could have got away for them, but for the wayward finishing of Liverpool in general and Darwin Nunes in particular.

But Luton stayed in the game.

They posed Liverpool problems before they scored.

You know, they weren't just sitting back and parking the bus.

They were really good on the counter.

Ross Barkley, one of the best performances I've ever seen him put in.

Isa Kabore, Chidozi Ogbene, and Andros Town

Sr.

as he is now, which I wonder what that makes Troy a super geriatric old man.

But yeah, a brilliant performance by Luton.

Their goal, their counter-attack goal was classic counter-attack goal.

Every, you know, couldn't have gone better.

And it's kind of a shame they couldn't hang on, but I don't think anyone's going to begrudge Louis Diaz that equaliser, given the

stress he must be under.

And

both sides will probably be disappointed with the result.

But

I really wanted Luton to hang on.

um that that the goal was liverpool's 24th attempt in the game but the first 23 wilson were all missed by darwin nunes um

he's amazing isn't he that goal he scored in the carabout cup was brilliant he's capable of brilliance that volley where he the control for the volley that hits the bar is amazing and then the volley missed sitter is ludicrous

Yeah, that volleyball sitter, I think he was offside for anyway, wasn't he?

But yeah, he's

just a fascinating player to watch because he's capable of brilliance and he's capable of being brilliantly awful

in the space of 15 seconds.

And that's great.

It makes him a lot of fun.

Does it make him a title-winning centre-forward?

Maybe not.

But

he got on the points at Newcastle earlier this season.

You know what he brings.

Well, you know what he brings, as in you have no idea what he brings, but you know that you don't know what he brings.

As Don Vumsfort once said.

He's much better when he doesn't have time, when it's instinctive.

Yeah, I think he's a great volume of a ball.

I mean, okay, he did miss that volley, but yeah, he's just a fascinating football.

And you sort of wonder which way it'll go, whether he degenerates into never scoring any of those, or whether he irons out mistakes and becomes a 30-yard a season, man.

Or maybe he just keeps on going, being

this weird bundle of contradictions and gets 20 in the season.

And half the fans think he's brilliant, half the fans think he's terrible, and both are right.

Yes, and but it doesn't seem to phase him, missing chances, which is sort of lucky, I think, for him.

The thing here for Liverpool, Jordan, is if you want to win the title, you can't drop points at Luton.

No,

that is very, very true.

And they came very, very close to that.

I thought in this game, we all know it already, but Alexander Arnold, some of his deliveries and passes in that first half were just were just insane.

He was just stroking the ball around.

Some of these crosses that were just a joy to watch.

I don't know how Diaz actually, sorry, Diaz, Nunes missed that open goal.

There's some open goal misses where you're like i can kind of see how he missed that one but i don't know how he i don't know how he managed to not hit the target from from where he was but yeah the diaz got the end was also a very good header because it's not an easy header to to do he's up to loop it and stoop a little bit and and they will take their point and run i think from a looting perspective I think we wanted them to win that game, but I just fear that they will look back in a few weeks time and if we just hung on, although they'll be like, yep, it's a point against Liverpool played well.

I think when they really, when they wake up today, they'll be thinking, we had to hang on for six more minutes or whatever it was, you know, we could regret that.

I mean, on Luis Diaz, football is a great escape for lots of people.

And

Lord only knows what he is going through and how he is feeling.

And maybe playing and being in a dressing room is exactly what he needs.

in this difficult time.

He had a t-shirt on underneath that said Liber Dad para papa, freedom for dad,

as his dad is still being held hostage uh, back in Colombia.

And of course, we send our best wishes to Louis Diaz.

Uh, before part two, let's do Sheffield United's first win of the season then over Wolves.

Ollie Norwood's penalty, Baz.

Absolutely.

I mean, it's rare that a penalty can give you so much joy, but that was amazing.

Yeah, he fairly whacked it all right, as you said in the intro, Pressman-esque.

And

that's a big, big win for Sheffield United against

a weird Wolves team who've beaten City,

drawn with Villa, Newcastle, drawn with Luton, and now drawn with Sheffield United.

So you never really know what you're going to get with Wolves.

I think they can, once again, and certainly not for the first, second, or third time this season, consider themselves unfortunate because I don't think

Fabio Silva's challenge on George Baldock was a foul.

He pulled out of it.

And

so shefford united were lucky to get the penalty they're probably due a bit of luck and uh

i thought at first olly nor was going to blast it out of brammel lane but

it found the top corner

the net held on the net just about held on didn't it simon says as a bournemouth fan i was getting very paranoid last season because every var decision seemed to go against us not a single penalty was given to us either now i realize the vendetta was actually against our manager gary o'neal it seems to be getting more obvious every week gary O'Neill said he sat in the referees room looking at the incident with the ref repeatedly disagreeing about whether it was a foul or not, which is a scene in a sitcom I'd like to see, Wilson.

Someone going, yeah, it's a foul.

No, it isn't.

Yes, it is.

No, it isn't.

And he did say last week he wasn't going to talk to refs anymore.

So he went against that, but he's really unlucky.

You know, two centre-forwards giving away penalties that aren't penalties late on to cost them points.

Yeah, I don't really know how a ref can look at a video.

I can see why a ref would give it in real time.

I get that.

Although, I think even then, given Baldock's reaction, Baldock doesn't appeal at all.

I mean, I think, was it Danny Murphy on Match of a Day suggesting he died?

It's not a dive.

He just puts his foot

behind the ball and then slightly loses his footing.

There's a little bit of pressure behind him.

And he's not appealing at all.

He's back on his feet and trying to turn.

I mean, it's just not a foul, is it?

So I don't know how you can look at the video of that and say it is.

I think that's

very concerning.

Cameron Archer's goal, Seb says, is that the most satisfying goal in football?

Something wonderful about a ball smashing into the underside of the crossbar, bouncing back up into the roof of the net.

Of course, I would say Tony Yaboa.

I don't know, Wilson, if you have any advances on who is the go-to off the bar, bouncing down, bouncing up again.

Yeah, Yaboa against Wimbledon.

Do you mean the Wimbledon one or the Liverpool?

No, I think Liverpool is the off the bar.

Oh, I think I prefer.

No, the Wimbledon one's off the bar as well.

It's not a volley.

They both are, yeah.

They're both off the bar, yeah.

I think I prefer the Wimbledon one.

The problem is the net at Celeste Park is a bad net.

Yeah, whereas the Ellen Road net is a great net at that time.

No, I go Yubo Wimbledon.

Hamas Rodriguez, producer Silas says, in the World Cup.

Well, I was at that.

Did I hit the bar?

I was at that game.

I saw it live, but I don't.

It did.

Silas just checked breaking news.

That's what he did.

It's like YouTube as well.

He did.

It

Well, Lewis Dunk had one that was disallowed this weekend as well, didn't he?

Volley off the crossbar.

That was nice.

Darren Anderson, that was also Ellen Road, wasn't it?

Against Sweden.

Did it hit both posts and the bar?

Yeah, both posts.

I don't think it hit the bar.

I was at a Sunderland game against Fulham at Craven Cottage where Kieran Richardson hit both posts and the crossbar with a free kick.

That was great.

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

Well done, Sheffield United.

Part two begin at the Etihad.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Charlie says, if you go the whole episode without mentioning VAR, I'll buy a live show ticket, then get drunk and buy another one.

Look, a week today, we're playing the Troxy in London.

There are some tickets available.

Go to theguardian.com slash FWTO23.

It's very easy to get to, just in case you haven't heard of it.

And that is what's stopping you.

Come along.

Me, Ellis, Troy, Philippe, and Baz.

And then a few tickets still available in Manchester on Wednesday the 15th.

Me, Baz, John Bruin, Nada Manuher, and the Willamwin anecdote.

Both Jordan's gig in Bristol and Wilson's, both of them in Dublin, are sold out.

But the live stream on the 22nd with Johnny Lou and Nicki Bandini is obviously not sold out.

It will never sell out.

Not a possibility.

So come along, watch it from wherever you are in the world.

I was at the socially distant sports bar live in the Clapham Grand on Saturday, and Ellis, for reasons I won't explain, took his shirt off.

He is incredibly hench and buffed and ripped.

Yeah, it's amazing.

I had him down as a bit of a weed.

Yeah, me too.

I was astonished and slightly upset because I'm not astonishedly buff, hench and ripped.

But

if you buy a ticket for Monday, we will get ellis to take his shirt off i don't we're not that kind of

well i mean i guess if it sells some tickets absolutely fine um to the etsy hat manchester city sit i just don't know if that is going to get people to come is it

ellis james topless and does he know

no he doesn't um i i was just astonished with what i saw because i really wasn't expecting it Six pack the works.

Wow.

God, that takes a lot of effort.

In many ways, I've judged him a little bit.

If I told you about the mentality, I have.

Yes, you have.

Andrew says, was Guardiola right?

Were Bournemouth so, so good?

Yeah, another one of how brave.

Those brave boys opening up and letting us play through them.

Man City 6, Bournemouth won.

The Jeremy Doku show, Jordan.

Four assists and a goal.

Bit of a letdown.

He wasn't involved in the sixth, really.

Yeah, no,

this was the Doku show.

He's looking like it's going to be a top, top, top Premier player.

And very exciting as well.

I feel like he's going to to be a lot of fun i i i feel like he's channeling the inner okotcha he's got a similar body type really quick feet he's got a quick shot um off the off the bat didn't a cocha play at sort of like two miles an hour and it feels like doku plays at 100 miles an hour i mean maybe i'm misremembering jj no that's that that's fair but i think the similarity is one the thing the body type is similar but also he can go from static to just like 100 miles an hour in like 0.4 seconds and i i think Acocha had that kind of ability to kind of go from nothing to burst as well.

Yeah,

he was dominant.

He was definitely in the mood.

But I think the best goal of the whole weekend was David Silver's David Silver.

Bernardo Silver's goal, I think, was the fifth goal.

I loved his goal.

He kind of just glided through a couple of players and just like kind of dinked it past the goalkeeper.

So, yeah, I mean, this was always going to be a battery for Bournemouth.

And indeed,

that's how it ended up.

What takes away from the Bernardo Silver goal is that someone hooked it off the line, so they had to wait.

Like, for the beauty of a dink, you have to see it hit the back of the net.

I think.

And that was set up by Doku as well.

One of seven players joining seven other players to get four assists in a game, four Arsenal players, two Tottenham, and one Man United.

Would anybody like a guess in this quiz?

Henri?

Erzil?

No, no,

Fabragas?

Yes.

Bird Camp, Reyes, Fabragas, Kazoola are the Arsenals.

The Tottenhams are Harry Kane and Emmanuel Adebayor

and Paul Pogba for Man United.

Man City have won 22 consecutive home games in all competitions.

The highest, longest run in history by an English top right side.

Behind who, Wilson?

Sunderland had a very good home record in the 1890s.

Yes, there you go.

Sunderland, a 24-game streak from Sunderland between December 1890 and April 1892.

I'm delighted that you got that right.

I don't want to diminish that record, but Sunday was a fucking long way in the 1890s.

That's fair enough.

Early Harland went off at half-time, but it wasn't a problem.

How worried about Bournemouth are you, Baz?

Personally, I'm not, couldn't care less because

it doesn't.

But if I was a Bournemouth fan, I would be very worried.

I mean,

not many teams have a good record against Man City, but Bournemouth get absolutely trashed by them on a regular basis.

Going back to the days of Eddie Howe, I read somewhere the average aggregate score over 13 or 14 games is something like 44-7.

So it was no surprise they got tomped.

And I'd be interested to know what Jack Grealish made of that game because Jeremy Doku obviously and he are

in the same position and

Doku is looking like he might make it his own.

And

Jack, through no fault of his own, could find himself spending quite a lot of time on the bench.

But obviously, they will have a lot of games to play, so he will get game time.

But I think that's actually a really serious point about Grealish.

Grealish was never allowed at City to do what Docky's doing.

As soon as he arrived, Guadiola had him, sort of began reprogramming him into somebody who gave him control.

And I think Grealish must be looking at Docky thinking, hang on,

why is he not being reprogrammed?

Why did I have to dismantle my game and start again?

And maybe that will happen.

I think it's telling that in the Manchester Derby, it was Grealish who started, not Doku.

And if you look at the stats,

teams attack City down the city left much more this season than they did last season.

And I think that's because Doku doesn't protect his fullback in the way that Grealish did.

I like the dystopian movie of the reprogramming of Jack Grealish while Jeremy Doku is sort of running free.

Anyway, to the city ground, Forest 2, Villa 0.

Vida could have gone third if they'd won this game.

And actually, my favourite goal of the weekend, Barry, was Forest Opener from Ola Eina.

I mean, it was just such a brilliant, a lovely move.

It slowed down a bit, but that finish is so perfect.

Yeah,

Harry Toffalo with one of two pullbacks to set up goals.

And Eina just...

beautifully placed side foot into the corner and he's not a regular goal scorer.

I think that's his first for Forrest.

I wouldn't have it as my favourite of the weekend but it was certainly a good strike.

Were you impressed with Forrest?

Oh very, yes.

Aston Villa's home form we know is great but they barely laid a glove on Forrest yesterday.

Ollie Watkins was kept on a kept very quiet and

Forrest didn't give they sat quite deep they didn't give Aston Villa any room to work in and I thought Villa were uncharacteristically slow and ponderous and i think it was pointed out in match of the day that that really high defensive line they were playing that they got caught out a few times

noticeably for the second goal and it was just a bad day at the office for them i think you know not not enough players stepped up and performed but i wouldn't worry too much about it And if you win best goalkeeper in the world, Jordan, not you personally, but Emi Martinez, it's not the weekend to do that.

It's a really bad bit of goalkeeping, Nat, isn't it?

I don't know what he did.

I don't know what part of his hand the ball was touched to kind of go up and then get the backspin that it got to then throw in the goal.

So

it was bizarre.

And yeah, the timing was comical, but not ideal

for him.

Declan says, am I the only one who feels compelled to say, and pliers, every time Odysseus Vlakademos' name name is mentioned the

forest keeper also delighted that of the people on the zoom call jonathan wilson absolutely have no idea well

all i know about this is john brew made the same joke yesterday and i didn't know the sign of dan either

anyway really really important win for forest that um uh also good win for brentford wilson at 3-2 over west ham jamie says time for some respect on neil mopay's name after his goal on saturday popular figure of fun for those that love much-repeated stats.

Reality is his link-up play has been a big part of Brentford's three wins in a row.

Now he's got his goal to add to his two assists.

He would have had a goal against Burnley, too, but for a dubious offside call.

Sorry it didn't work out from it, Everton, but he looks delighted to be playing for us.

We're happy to have him back.

Fully expect us to take up the auction to buy if it is not prohibitive.

I mean, it's a slightly generous interpretation of the 15 minutes he played at Chelsea, having come off a bench.

But look, I mean, the broader point is,

you know, it's correct.

that he looks a different player back at brentford and you know he did have a season at brentford i mean okay in the championship where he got was it 20 25 goals i think so he's obviously happy there footballers like that who

they're clearly not as bad as the stat that's repeated makes them look or even as their naked panic every time they get a chance makes them look so it's it's it's nice to see him back somewhere where he feels comfortable playing proper football again.

And Brentford, you

three games ago, we were sort of thinking, oh, you know, is the Ivantoniac going to going to affect them?

Could they run out of a bit of steam?

And suddenly they've won three in a row and they're fine again.

So from the highlights, this looked a really, really good game.

I very much enjoyed the highlights.

It was a great moment on

Soccer Saturday when it was pointed out to Paul, Paul Merson was doing games, pointed out to Paul Merson that Mopay hadn't scored since 2019.

And he went, well, I scored in 2018.

I love Paul Merced um look fine margin this game Kudas' goal is brilliant Barry but that Antonio miss is something else yeah I would say the Kudas goal was probably my favorite of the weekend but

we we criticized Darwin Nunes for his miss at Luton but I think the Benrama Antonio miss collective miss was was worse i would point my big finger of blame at Michel Antonio.

Antonio, the ball was heading straight for Ben Rama, and he kind of took it off his toe.

I think even including Ben Rama in the miss is slightly unfair.

He was just there ready to sweep it home.

He had nothing to do with it.

Yeah.

And then Michel Antonio's fury afterwards,

as if to suggest, what are you doing?

But it was all his fault.

Yeah, I liked that.

But this was a really entertaining game.

But West Ham's defending was absolutely abysmal.

David Moyes called a Keystone Cops defending afterwards.

And I think that's putting it kindly.

Brilliant header by Nathan Collins, but you know, he's completely unmarked and towers above two defenders to nod home or thump the ball home.

Yeah, we did have a tweet about this.

And I think Ian Danton that talks about

our colleague said it as well.

We need a more modern reference than Keystone Cops.

Even I don't know what Keystone Cops is.

I know what Keystone Cops defending is, but I don't think I've ever seen Keystone Cops.

I used to be on

Mark Curry's movie club on a Saturday morning

in the 80s.

That's why I know it was great.

You got like The Lone Ranger.

I had to have a bar of Highland Toffee and watch that.

I thought it was probably the last time I was truly happy.

I was just looking it up and hang on in 1935 director Ralph Storb staged a revival of the Keystone Cops.

So he brought it back.

It appears that 1915 was the last one.

Wow.

I mean, even David Morris isn't old enough to have seen that at the same time.

I'm not sure this is helping with modern references for

Keystone Cups to any.

Anyway, do let us know.

Football Week at the Guardian.com.

A game that wasn't that exciting was Full and Man United.

I mean, they got away with it again, Jordan.

United Name, Fernandez is great for the goal.

Fulham's Devening isn't, but it was

a very early Saturday kickoff.

No one was really ready.

No, I think you're right.

I don't really have any massive takeaways from this game apart from rival fans

of United, but were actually glad that they won because the rationale being it keeps him there just a little bit longer because had he lost this match, he would have been teetering on the brink surely of being fired they weren't great they got the win but we know there's there's deeper rooted issues there at united than than just getting three points on the weekend one of the things that people always talk about when managers are coming under pressure is are the squad still fighting for him and you look at united's last six games four of them they won on the last minute which suggests the squad is still fighting the other two they've been totally pathetic and there'd be no sign of fight whatsoever So I don't know is the answer.

Are they still fighting for him?

You know, it's...

Harry Maguire is i mean he got a lot of knocks i don't know if you want to get on your high horse barry so i feel like he could have been concussed at some point during this game i'm not really sure but also

also that led him to playing at sort of glen hodl-esque 60 yard pinpoint passes well it's kind of like that old story about some party thistle midfielder who got a bang on the head and the physio shouts to the manager he doesn't know who he is and the manager shouts well tell him he's pele

so you know harry Harry got the bang on the head he did it didn't look great now and he was clearly in distress for quite a long time or at various other points at least one other point in the game so yeah I think he probably should have been withdrawn but he wasn't and clearly if he had forgotten who he was the the physio told him he was franz beckenbauer i think um but it was a brilliant performance for him and there seems to be this harry maguire redemption arc in in process And

I, for one,

think that's probably a good thing because he has been very unfairly maligned, in my opinion.

Yeah, it's less of an arc, more a redemption-long diag, isn't it?

We haven't missed redemption.

We haven't mentioned Marcus Rashford being castigated for having a birthday party, having the temerity to celebrate

his birthday after the defeat to Man City.

Even Eric Ten Hark said it was a bad bad idea.

I must confess, I followed the story so little, I don't even know where he was.

I believe he was out at a nightclub and China Whites.

Obviously, he should have been at home

wrapping himself in barbed wire and hitting himself with a big stick because you're not allowed to go out after

a defeat.

Can't be seen in public.

Sackcloth and ashes time.

You know, it's just performative nonsense.

You can't smile for five days.

China Whites, you say, Jordan, was it?

It was, yeah.

He was celebrating his baritille's birthday.

I think the whole bashing, there was a back and forth between Pinton Morrison and Paul Merson on this on the weekend.

the consent, the general consensus of everyone apart from Morrison, was saying that he shouldn't be out, he's got to stay in, you cancel it.

I think Neville kind of added to that as well of the weekend.

I just think it's nonsense.

I just think it's his birthday.

He's got to live his life.

Or this idea that football players can't smile because they've lost a Manchester Derby game.

How long does that last for?

Is it four days you can't smile?

Is it a week you can't smile?

Is it a month?

Do you smile to your children?

When you can't.

That's the question.

It's just so small.

Hi, Dada.

Laura.

It's so dumb.

I did go to China Whites once.

Liam Lawrence.

With Liam Lawrence and Robert Hooth and one of the Keos.

Can't remember which one, but they weren't in kit, so I couldn't tell you which of the Keos.

Panelist 1-2-0 at Burnley.

Ian says, given Burnley's recent results, can the panel advise here, Vincent, is now officially a limited company?

It's a nice question, isn't it?

Six successive home defeats for Burnley.

It's funny, isn't it?

I think people have stopped saying, oh, they'll be fine, Barry, haven't they?

I certainly have.

My concern for them here is, you know, they're still making mistakes.

I wasn't even particularly impressed with Palace, but they still won quite comfortably.

I don't think they played well at all.

So that is a major concern for Burnley.

The only thing I'd say in their favour is

they

battered Palace in almost every stat, and they were creating chances, but just couldn't score any of them.

But

to lose at home to a Palace side that's missing

a key player

and that didn't play well, that is not a good sign.

Finally, Everton won Brighton one.

Everton have gone really dicey, Jordan, and I'm all here for it.

My only note on this game, Max, is that Lewis Dunk seems to have turned into Prime Maldini, hitting volleys off crossbars

and dunk taking free kicks as well.

I don't know what's happened to Dunk at

Brighton, but he seems to have really evolved into more than just your kind of League Two, I can head it out of the box type centre-back.

And I'm liking it.

Yeah, no, I think John Salva's had a free kick in am i being harsh

i think you are yeah just because he's tall and cool dunk i think you think it's sort of onomatopoeic that he would just maybe maybe you know maybe um but but he's yeah i think he's always been quite a cultured centre back meanwhile um as i was trying to get john to talk about where he's talking about

wilson sean dice has got everton being dicey

yeah i mean they've gone back to

it's not quite the 4-4-2 is it for to curb just play slightly off calvert luhn but i mean calvert Luhn being fit is a huge thing.

I don't know if Dice takes some credit for that.

I know he did a lot of work in sort of analysing Calvert Lewin's lifestyle to work out.

I mean, I think he did things like looking at his car, whether it was something to do with the way he pressed the accelerator that was causing injuries.

I thought you really went through what was causing all the problems.

But yeah, they look like what a Dice side should look like now.

Probably still slightly more open.

than he'd like, but I don't think we're thinking of Everton as relegation candidates now.

So you've got to give Dice credit for that.

I love this image of Dominic Calvert Loon being ruled out because he strained his calf while overtaking someone on the M6.

I just had this image of Sean Dice saying, I'm going to come around and see what you're driving.

And Dominic Calvert Luhn is in like a tiny clown car, or like on one of those tiny little bicycles with his knees up around his knees going, Oh, maybe

this is the problem.

Anyway, that'll do for part two.

We'll do the FA Cup, Copper Library Dorads, a bit on M Hayes as well in part three.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Mains have terminated Anuan El Ghazi's contract following the forward social media posts in connection with the Israel-Hamas conflict.

He was suspended in October following an earlier comment, had been cleared to return to training on Monday after showing remorse.

However, he posted a new statement on Wednesday that the German club said was incomprehensible, they would examine it from a legal perspective.

My position remains the same as it was when this started, El-Ghazi wrote.

I'm against war and violence, I'm against the killing of all innocent civilians, I'm against all forms of discrimination, I'm against Islamophobia, I'm against anti-Semitism, I'm against genocide, I'm against apartheid, I'm against occupation, I'm against oppression.

Uh, his post said, stand for what is right, even if it means standing alone.

The loss of my livelihood is nothing when compared to the hell being unleashed on the innocent and and vulnerable in Gaza.

Hashtag stop the killing.

Archie is on the pod on Thursday.

So we're going to talk about that story then.

Fred says, Could Chelsea's announcement about Emma Hayes derail their incredible train of success?

Yeah,

the Chelsea manager is going to leave at the end of the season.

It looks very likely she's going to become the head of the United States women's national team.

Over 12 years, she's led her team to six WSL titles, five FA Cups, two Continental Cups, the Spring Series, Community Shield, Champions League Final, got an MBE and an OBE, has been named best FIFA Women's Football Coach in 2021 and WSL manager of the season on six occasions.

It's big for the WSL this, Baz, isn't it?

Yeah,

I wouldn't necessarily say

it could derail their season, Chelsea season, the news of her imminent departure, but if anything, it could galvanise them and

see them go on an already brilliant team go on to greater things.

i think she'll be huge loss to the the wsl

just the english football landscape in general um she's you know very clever woman she's very sensible she's interesting to listen to no matter what she's talking about whether it's the women's game the men's game she's doing co-comms or working as a pundit She's helped advance the women's game in this country and she will be sorely missed, I suspect.

I would love to go for a night out on the beer with Emma Hayes.

I suspect she would be tremendous company.

Yeah, I mean, we've interviewed her a few times on the radio when, you know,

before a big final, saying, Look, if you know, if you win tomorrow, where will you be?

And she'd be like, I'll just be on a park bench somewhere.

So a general response.

But yeah, good luck to her.

Of course, the Golden Women's Football Weekly will cover that in great detail.

In the FA Cup first round, Chesterfield knocked out Portsmouth, who were unbeaten in League One this season, top of League One.

Eighth tier, Craig Valley Paper Mills FC.

Craig Valley PM equalized to set up a replay at home to, it says here, producer Joel's Charlton.

I'm not sure that's how many people know them.

And it was an own goal, but it was forced over the line by Kyrell Lisby, son of Kevin Lisby.

If Kevin Lisby is old enough to have children who are old enough to be semi-professional footballers, it's a worrying sign of how old we all are.

In my mind, Kevin Lisby is about 16.

And John says, I know it's niche, but a word on the 563 Horsham fans travelling from Sussex to Barnsley for a Friday night non-televised FA Cup first-round game, getting a draw.

The Lardy Army had a lovely time.

So, yeah, well done, if your team got through.

We smashed Bracknell 2-1.

It was quite nerve-wracking.

And

you know who you have in the second-round draw.

And let's talk about the Cobba Libertadores.

Lisa's Fliminese won the Libertadores thanks to a winner from a Brazilian with surely the least Brazilian name ever, John Kennedy.

Is this a nickname like Pele, or is there something else to do with it?

Can any of you shed some light?

Wilson?

I think his parents just like John Kennedy, but they do this quite a lot in Brazil, don't they?

They

name kids after sort of famous people from elsewhere.

Producer Silas says Cristiano Ronaldo is named after Ronald Reagan, which I did not believe, but is apparently true.

Well, it's true.

Yeah.

Nixon MacLean, the Western East Fast Bowler, is named after Nixon, the president.

But yeah, it was a really kind of

brutal game.

So Flaminense,

they've got this coach, Ginnis, who's supposedly sort of reinventing football, playing.

It's a form of possession football, but he calls it relationalism rather than positionalism.

So whereas Guadiola likes his players to sort of always be conscious of where they need to be to counter a counter, this is much more free-flowing.

It often just looks like people crowding around the ball because he wants people close to the ball to give passing options.

To be honest, it was pretty hard to see that in this game because it was such a sort of tense and

at times violent game.

Jaman Cano put Flaminense ahead, nine minutes before half-time, a really nice goal.

And then Flaminense, slightly disappointed, he sort of sat back on it.

And Boca had much a better second half.

Advinkle, the right back, equalised 18 minutes to go, and you sort of thought then the momentum was with Boca.

And then Kennedy came off the bench, scored an absolutely brilliant winner.

Ball just knocked down to my edge of the box box, and he smashes it first time in the bottom corner.

And he then goes off on this celebratory run that takes him sort of

deep, deep, deep into the stand for which he gets a second booking.

So he's sent off.

But then, seven minutes into injury time at the end of the first half of extra time, Boca have a place I know, Frank Fabra,

for slapping Nino.

He's really stupid.

Yeah, cost Boca the man advantage.

And from then on, Boca

didn't really offer much.

They

a lot of sort of pointless long-range shots from the border.

And that was it.

And Flaminense

1-2-1 for their first ever Liberadores title.

So congratulations to them.

And Marcelo becoming the 14th player to have won the Champions League and the Copper Libertadores.

Anyway, Harry Kane's quarter-hat-trick in the Clásica.

As I said, Archie's on on Thursday.

On halfway line goals,

Michael says the divider between a halfway line goal being a great goal or a goalkeeper howler just has to be whether the ball bounces.

The pleasure of one of these is it's lofted over the keeper.

If it bounces, it's proved the keeper should have got it.

So, credit to Beckham.

And I was saying his halfway line goal gets more credit than others.

His was in a good spot.

But while Alonso may be a great manager, neither of his halfway line goals are great goals.

In other news, the former Chelsea assistant, Henk Tencarter, has rejected an Ajax job to star in a Dutch detective show.

I mean, this is the, this is absolutely, nothing has been in Wilson's wheelhouse more than former people rejecting total football to go and be a detective in a TV program.

Well, I know it's Barry's audition for the

Schliepers, as I believe it's called.

This is this show.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I'm desperate to see it.

A man was the former Chelsea assistant, former Barcelona assistant.

So he's won league titles in England, he's won league titles in Spain, he's won Champions Leagues, and now he's playing a detective

in in a crime drama it's so what a what a life what a career and it's just great to have those two options going oh i just don't know which i just don't know which one to which job am i going to take assistant at ajax or i mean i would absolutely take dutch detective who will play the chief inspector in the series sleepers for videoland 10 episodes How great is that?

Yeah.

Good luck to him.

I mean, I really hope

we can watch it on British TV.

I mean, I am desperate to see it.

it's a bit a bit like when the english when you're watching the english patient i think i went to the cinema with my wife frank leboeuf appears just as like a doctor so obviously like half the cinema are just like what's frank leboeuf doing there and the other half are like sorry max you hadn't met your wife when the english patient was in the cinema and also frank leboeuf was very frank hadn't even won the world cup by the time the english patient the english patient came out like 1993 or something didn't it What do I mean?

I don't know the English patient.

No, no, no.

What do I mean?

The football link of English Patient is that Kevin Whaitley plays Hardy, the bomb disposal expert.

And there will be a spoiler here, so skip the next 30 seconds if you haven't seen it.

But when they're going through his effects, there's a Sundon scarf in there, which is a because he's a Newcastle fan, and the crew put a Sundon scarf in just as a prank on him.

But the badge on the scarf was only introduced in 1976.

That's it.

That's in the Football Weekly book, which is still available, apparently.

And that is the only interesting thing that happens in the English patient.

Oh, I think it's a good film.

I like it.

The theory of everything.

The theory of everything was the movie that I got muddled up.

Anyway, at the time, you know, he was a doctor.

There was a patient.

You know,

that's where the confusion came.

After I got Wallander and Van der Volk knocked, you know.

I heard that live.

I said, oh God, what's he done?

Yeah, absolutely disgrace, isn't it?

Well done to Arsenal under 18s who couldn't play their game away to Brighton because the team bus traveled to Bournemouth instead of Brighton, which yesterday on the radio, Barry and I did the text topic, when have you accidentally, when have you gone to Bournemouth by accident?

And it turns out a lot of people have, more than you would imagine.

Duff says the depiction of Fabio Capello in the play Dear England bears an uncanny and unsettling resemblance to Barry in a wig doing an Italian accent.

Let's not get Barry on an Italian accent.

Oh, God.

What a mistake it'll make.

It'll be one of those, won't it?

And here we are, finished the pod with Gary Bertles.

Rob says, hi, huge fan.

I've been listening to you guys since since the interim, aka Matt started hosting.

Thanks, Rob.

After listening to your most recent podcast, I couldn't help but message you guys.

I'm Gary Bertles' window cleaner.

He's a top bloke and regularly makes me an oat milk.

He doesn't drink cow's milk coffee each time I'm at his house and lets me use his loo.

Surely everyone lets the window cleaner use the loo, don't they?

I keep his price cheap with being a big Nottingham Forest fan.

I have to charge him as my work partner is a Derby County fan and won't agree to giving Gary a free clean each month.

month.

Next time I see him, I'll ask him about his £200 purchase of his Guns N' Roses record.

I'm still hoping one day he invites me out with the Forest Legends and Sean Deich for brunch.

Well good luck Rob.

Meanwhile Dan says hi Max Barry and Team.

I live in Long Eaton, Derbyshire.

The home of Long Eaton United, the team at Nottingham Forest famously signed the carpet fitter Gary Bertles from.

I live on the main road and often see a bloke who looks like Gary Bertles walking past my house.

I know Gary still lives in the area but I can't be sure it's him.

I once saw potential Gary Burtles at the train station, but the only person with me was my wife's American cousin.

Although he's a fan of British football, Nottingham Forest players of the late 70s, early 80s was a bit beyond him.

When I see Gary Burtles on TV, I think it definitely does look like that bloke.

I haven't asked the man if he is Gary Bertles, and if he answered me, the only potential answers are yes or no, and I don't have a follow-up to either of these questions.

I have asked around, and it does seem increasingly likely that it's him.

Well, Dan, good luck.

Well, what Dan should do now is say, Um,

are you Gary Bertles?

And if he says yes, then go, Oh, could you recommend a window cleaner?

That's a lovely way to end.

Uh, that'll do for today.

Thank you, Jordan.

Cheers, mate.

Thanks, Barry.

Thanks.

Thanks, Wilson.

Cheers.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Silence Great.

Our executive producer is Max Sinus, and we'll be back on Wednesday.

This is The Guardian.