Drake and Josh and Ben (Part 1)

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Five stars, what are you nuts? What are you nuts? Yeah, we're the good guys.
They're not the great guys. We're just the good, good, good guys.
Whoa. Okay.
Drake Bell. Hey, what's up, buddy? Thank you for being here.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Ben, we're terribly underdressed.
We're terribly underdressed. And Drake, I'd be remiss not to mention that I grew up as the biggest Drake drake and josh fan of all time like this is thank you you're gonna know you can ask josh like from day one like you are circled number one guest oh that's awesome we've been doing this for like two and a half years and i just found out though that the true the words of the song are it's gonna take some time to realign i was realize.
Well, you know, what's interesting is even on the closed captioning, like, you know, I've watched the show. I don't know if it was on Netflix or what it was, but I've seen closed captioning get it wrong, too.
So unbelievable. It's yeah, it's it's a common thing.
But, you know, it doesn't rhyme. Realize doesn't rhyme if you think so.
If you, you don't know i don't want to i don't want to brag but we too have a theme song and we do i just want to say the people have been going pretty nuts i i i think i've heard it and it's pretty cool thanks man yeah yeah yeah i josh wrote it josh wrote it who did scratch i did you did it and super chris okay produced it wait Wait, really? Yeah, the great Super Chris Abraham. Shut up.
Yeah. Okay, can I hear it? Can you play it right now? I don't even know if we have it.
Yes, I have it right here. Wait.
That's funny that you said Chris did it because, wait, play it. Because when I listened to it, I was like, oh, there's some.
Okay, that makes sense. I feel like I'm playing my demo tape for Paul McCartney.
So good. You're singing on it singing on it yeah well ben and i are both singing on it oh sick the great ben here i'm just saying if you ever want to collab we have some great pipes right when you play it i'm gonna know okay we do a little clip before here we go it's coming we got it yes yes how do we yes Classic button

Shout out small business

Super Chris special.

Come on.

Come on.

Come on.

Oh, so good.

Oh my God.

That's hilarious.

Oh my gosh.

That's so,

has anyone made any references To why does your theme song

Sound so much like Drake Bell's second album

Only everyone

It does

But it's good

Yeah, that's dope, that's my jam

It's kind of you to say

Considering like, and I'm not joking around here

You have made one of the

Iconic theme songs Oh, thanks man Does that trip around here, you have made one of the iconic theme songs.

Oh, thanks, man.

Does that trip you out? How much people love it?

Okay, cool. So it's weird talking like this, but let's talk about it.

Yeah, it's freaking rad.

It is, right?

It's such a trip. I travel all over the world and I play that song.

And it's an audience of 20,000 people that don't speak English, but they're singing every single lyric to the song. Like it's, you know, or we're out at some club somewhere or some, you know, and, and that song comes on and like the entire feeling in the bar just instantly changes and everyone sings every lyric.
Everyone starts part. It's like, it's really crazy.
And growing up being such a fan of iconic tv you know classic television and all you know what's cool is it's a song yeah whereas a lot of these things it's a great 30 to 45 seconds but where does it go yeah you know you don't hear the mash theme and go like god yeah put that on i can't wait for the bridge yeah Yeah. Yeah.
Totally. Totally.
Well, that was what was interesting because when we wrote the theme song, we had only written 30 seconds of it. We'd only written the verse and the chorus.
So it had no bridge, had no second verse. And then when we knew that it was going to be the theme song for the show, we went back and we're like, well, now we have to put this on the record.
And we're like, well, now we have to finish it. And it's a little bit more of a daunting task when you have a song that people have already accepted, already like, and now you have to add to it.
You're like, oh, shit. Well, now I'm adding to something people already like.
Am I putting a jacket on the Mona Lisa? Right. Am I going to mess up? Whereas if you just gave them the finished song, then, you know, but now we're like, it was so hard.
We were just like, the second verse has to be perfect. I mean, it can't be, we're going to give it to them.
We're going to be like, we love this part, but then all of a sudden, like what? It really works. But then we just, so yeah.
And then it, it turned out. All right.
Did Nick pay you to write that song? Because Josh loves talking about how you guys get no residuals. So I just want to make sure that at least if they're playing the theme song, you get some money.
I wrote that song. I mean, it's pennies.
You know, it's not like I'm, you know, it's like paying my mortgage or anything. Next year, it'll be almost 20 years since we filmed the show.
And I'm not quite sure we've ever sat down and talked. No.
The way we are now. No.
And what's amazing is we have Ben and Olivia here who are also also you know true fans watch the show and so please you know car blanche to you are the voice of the people i just like were you guys very close when filming the show like walk me through you know this is so wow this is going to be like therapy it is because it's so interesting how you know i have my perspective and what I had and especially because like we were going through this like during our adolescence and when we were like changing and learning and all of this and it's going to be interesting to see like what my perspective was and what your perspective was and if they align at all yeah Josh you family yeah I would say I would say there were at times when we hung out a lot and we were close.

And then there were times when not for any reason, but just like weren't.

And then I think that there were times when, you know, when you are working with somebody that every day, day in and day out, and you're going through stuff at home or emotional thing, you know, just things that,

you know,

and then they come out with the person,

you know,

it's like you take it out on whoever the one next to you,

whoever's closest to you and with you the most often,

you know,

it's like your mom's like,

why are you taking this out of it?

It's like,

well,

you're the one that's there,

you know,

it's like,

you know,

your sister,

your girlfriend,

your brother,

whatever it is.

And I think that we,

we suffered the brunt of that a little bit sometimes where there were times where it was like,

yeah,

we might not have been getting along, but I think there's like we were dealing with a lot of shit outside of our relationship for us like working together. Or as my mother would say, I'm not here for you to unload.
I take on your mishagas. It affects me for days.
You're out running around. And I'm here, bleeding.
Thanks, Mom. It's called enmeshment.
And a lot of therapy on that. Wait, before we jump into the backstory, I got to ask first, because this is what the people want to know most.
Are you and Justin Bieber cool? People are asking. I don't even know.
I've met him one time. I never.
You guys had a little Twitter beef back in the day Well it wasn't even like with him I just tweeted like some like stupid like tweet that was like somebody tweeted a picture of him like AI'd with like makeup on and it was like but it looked really good it like looked really real and I just kind of like retweeted it I didn't know about the believers. I wasn't aware.

And it was all of a sudden, it was like,

kill yourself. Die.

Everything you've ever made is

trash. Drake and Josh

is trash.

It literally went from waking up one day

to being like, Drake and Josh is the greatest show ever.

We love it. And then the next day

was like, everything you've ever made

should burn and we're going to make sure

it does. It was like the Beatles outside

burning our, you know, like I said that we were

Thank you. And then the next day was like, everything you've ever made should burn.
And we're going to make sure it does. It was like the Beatles, like outside, like burning our, like, you know, like I said that we were bigger than Jesus or something, you know? And I, I was just like, what? But then, you know, sometimes I can't keep my thumbs to myself.
And I'm like, I can't relate. Yeah.
And I'm like, I'm like, you know what? I'm'm like you know what just i'm like you know what you know what well and so i started making fun of like the show drink no more all the way i can only imagine dude we're if we are working on a project together ever in the future, like you would literally just be like, every time I have my phone out, you'd be like, Drake, oh wait, oh wait, no, no, I'm not, it's in the, it says right here, Drake Bell cannot ever be texting, nor tweeting, or X-ing, whatever the hell it is. Do you hate money, Drake? Are you allergic to money? So anyway, I really had a problem with Justin Bieber.
Who cares? He's actually a really great artist. Well, remember then, I remember that you were going to, like many people have had little Twitter beefs.
Yeah. And then you had an album release party that I was at.
Yes. At the Grove.
Yes. And Bieber pulled up.
Oh, yeah. Downstairs.
And dude, Kyle Massey, who's like one of Justin's best friends, has been best friends for years. I've known, you know, do you know Kyle? And you know Chris, his brother, you know? So, you know, I've known Kyle for years.
Well, I'm going up the stairs to my birthday and I didn't invite Kyle. Like Kyle wasn't on, like, you know, but he runs up to me at the bottom of the stairs if you remember the outside where you go up and then you go in.
So he runs up to me and he's like, Drake, Drake, I gotta talk to you right now. And I was about to go because remember we played at the album release and so I was like, oh man, I'm about to go on right now.
Come upstairs and hang out. I'll talk to you right after I get off stage.
And he's like, no, bro, I need to talk to you now.

It's really important.

And I was like, are you on, like, what is going,

like, you're acting so weird.

Like, I'm like, I'll talk to you after.

Well, after his bus rolled up, I was like,

oh, Kyle was like, yo, homie,

Justin's on his way here right now.

Like, I think he was giving me the, like, the wanting to give me, like, the warning. But, yeah, then he rolls up and does it.
I didn't, you know, the thing is, the whole time I was doing the thing with the believers and stuff, like, that was just me messing around. I didn't think, in my mind, Justin Bieber was, like, you know, in some, on an island with Selena Gomez, you know, buying gold and eating golden chocolate on the top of a mountain.
I don't know. I see him as like this untouchable.
Untouchable. Like, the hell would he see a tweet from me? Like Justin Bieber, the biggest, like Elvis Presley saw a tweet from me and cared like are you kidding me oh I'm petty like you know if I ever have real success I'm gonna I'm gonna look at them all but I you know you know you know I've never told this story but I actually I saw Scooter at Bootsy Bellows one night and famous club West Hollywood yeah and so I go I go up to I go up to scooter and I'm like yo hey what's up man and he looks and he goes bro is that really you on on twitter is that like somebody else I'm like you see that he's like yeah Justin does too man he's bummed drinking Josh like his favorite show growing up okay and I was like oh I go whoa hang on bro like that's I'm just messing with the fa- Like, I- He sees my tweet- I- Bro, I'm sorry- I'm sorry, sorry.

Like, I'm sorry. Sorry.
I just, sometimes I separate, I don't connect the fact that like this guy that's tweeting from his bed at six in the morning has ears around the world. I don't know.
I'm skin-seeing. Wait, Ben, are you going to say something? No, no, I'm just listening.
I'm sad to report that the first time I ever met Bieber, we happened to be at a co-ed Russian bath. That's right.
At Voda Spa. And I see him walk in, which you would think the only place that he would have some anonymity is with a bunch of old Russian dudes.
Yeah, of course. Hit by grape leaves or whatever.
Was that here in LA? I think I know the place you're talking about. Yeah.
Yeah. So I like, I would never do this, but I just kind of like, we make eye contact and I go, hey man, nice to meet you.
And he goes, oh, we've met before, haven't we? And I go, no, I'd remember. And he says, he spends the next couple hours talking my ear off about Drake and Josh no how much he loves it how much it means to him he's like literally going to like a seven-year-old Sergei being like Sergei you ever seen Drake and Josh this is a show this is a good show oh my god it is oh you must have been so hurt.
Oh, my God. Well, okay.
So, well, I don't know. I'll keep our – I had an interesting encounter with him.
But it was, you know, it was whatever. But he was – you know, he's cool.
But it was never with – it was never with – I'm sure there's no more to that story. We've got editors, right? It's a good guy's exclusive.
No, no. It was – no, I ran into him do it at a hotel one time just randomly on the elevator but that's the only time i ever actually like i've never met him or hung out with him and you know what the the bummer is we probably wouldn't get along probably make good music yeah well yeah i mean yeah he's great but anyway that's i never had a problem with justin bj it's just i i sometimes you know i just was you know was, you know, I was like his fans.
I was like, I was like, what did I like? They're passionate. Yeah.
It was wild. All right.
So Benjamin, tell me this, right? The other day you were at a sporting event. Did you use the hundred X zoom on your Samsung galaxy S 25 ultra trick question? I know you did.
Of course I use my hundred X zoom because Josh, here's the key. OK, we wait till the last minute.
Right. We're looking for perfect seats.
Right. We're not going to get perfect seats, though.
We're bargain hunting. We're looking for a great deal.
But as a celebrity, as two celebrities, we want people to think, Josh, that we're sitting courtside. Right.
We want them to think we got the great seats. We don't want them to think that we're up in the 300s and we can't see bupkits.
So what do we do, Josh? We hop on our Galaxy S25 Ultra from Samsung. We go to 100X Zoom.
I'm showing people players cabooses like I'm sitting right in front of them. It's unbelievable.
I, the other day, like King Yenta, I met my son's Little League game, right? I'm using 100X Zoom out there. We go home and I can chastise him and say, you think that's how you swing son? Look at this.
I got the, I used a hundred X zoom. You must study.
You must learn. You must come back.
Okay. And then I go, but let's go eat dinner now and have a celebratory dinner.
By the way, here's a tablet from Samsung, which he loves the kids. They love the tablets.
Boom, boom, boom, boom. He's happy with his two year old brother.
They got a little something to keep him busy while mom and I are sharing sweet potato fries and fighting over finances. By the way, I wanted to ask you, Ben, did you use the Buds 3 on your flight back from Tampa? The noise canceling feature? Because I know those planes, they're loud.
Of course I did. The guy next to me, he's like, try and ask me questions.
Where are you from? Oh, can't hear you. Bud's three.
What do you want to eat? Oh, sorry. Can't hear you.
Bud's three. If you want to get your Galaxy S25 Ultra right now, go to samsung.com.
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Topics like gaslighting, die for it, internalized misogyny, one of my faves, honestly, and the depths of the dark dating world. I will beg you again and again to come and listen, but most of all, I hope you enjoy.
So Ben, going all the way back, you TSF, what did you want to know about? Yes, I say after your tangent back to you too so what i wanted to know was just drake sort of answered like you guys had your good days your bad days you were kind of close you weren't always close but like from the viewers perspective it's like your brothers so obviously you have to be best friends so then once the show ends the question on everybody's mind always is just like, what happened to your friendship? But maybe there wasn't like a deep enough, like maybe that wasn't necessarily a thing. Like maybe you were just coworkers and once the project ended, it kind of ended or was there more to it? Like what, what happened? What happened to the two of you? I can start.
Well, I think from my experience and you've talked about this, we've talked this before. I came on the Amanda show.
We didn't get along at first, but I thought you were so cool. And I really wanted you to like me.
And then thankfully we had this shared love of old school comedy and sitcoms and great television. And so once you realize that I was kind of funny and I liked people who liked funny, we were suddenly inseparable.
And it felt like we had this bond and then Drake and Josh started. And I think what happened was, and we'll talk about it later, but watching the documentary and sort of what you were brave enough to share and to explain, which I could never have known at that age was all the things you were going through and facing.
And because for the most part, it wasn't shared with me. I just, the separation started between us.
And I think I just assumed like, it's interesting too, because as you were just saying that I'm like, it's like bringing back memories and stuff. And there's a lot of things that you're still realizing,

like as I haven't figured it all out,

but it's interesting.

Like,

as we talk about our relationship,

you know,

from Drake and from,

from Amanda show,

you know,

and I don't know if this is like,

just cause you know,

we've made a lot of bad choices in our lives or if it's just,

or if it's just, or if it's just trauma or if it's just from trauma, but yeah we've made a lot of bad choices in our lives. Or if it's just from trauma.

But I have a lot of trouble remembering a lot of things.

And things come back as people say things.

And I'm like, oh, gosh, I remember that.

I was talking to you. Remember Jill?

Remember my girlfriend Jill?

Yeah, your ex-girlfriend.

I was talking to her the other day.

And, you know, she had mentioned something.

There's something that I do just for like like for comfort as an adult. And she mentioned something and it like I was like, oh, my gosh, like that's why I do like that.
Like, you know, so sometimes things come back. But as I was what I was saying was from Amanda show, that was the time when we like we were hanging out and like going bowling and like staying at each other's places.
And come to my mom's house and like we do that and then as that big break between Drake and Josh and Amanda show is when I told my mom what was going on we went to the police the investigation all the stuff you saw in the documentary that was when all of that was going on and then when we shot the pilot we were in the middle of the investigation but nobody had known anything because brian hadn't been arrested right so i had to come back from where like the amanda show where the dude was where the abuse was happening yes the worst part about it being that was my having you know having the monster in your own in your safe place you know it's like that's that's the only place i feel comfortable is when i get to set and hang out with you guys and we go goof around and put on our masks and wigs and makeup and you know make people laugh and slide around and get dirty like that's where i feel safe but it's like it sucks because it's like like you know yeah nowhere nowhere my house isn't where i feel safe yeah you know at home i mean i did i mean i didn't have like abusive parents or anything you know i had a difficult you know divorced parents whatever but still where i felt most comfortable where i was the happiest was when i was on set with you guys and the worst part was every day i got there it was the monster was there you know and so that was worse so now there's this whole break i go into the most insane just mental breaks and just everything that were the investigation and just it's crazy you know and then we do the pilot because he hadn't been arrested when we did the pilot and we're like 14 yeah and so now i'm coming back he hasn't been arrested and i't know if you remember, but he came and visited during the pilot.

And I got him

and I made sure

and it was,

that was an issue.

But I still had to play like,

oh, like,

hey, cool, whatever.

Like,

you're about to get arrested, bro.

Yeah.

And you don't even know.

And he's like walking around set

like da-da-da-da-da

during the pilot.

And so now,

I haven't really like

vocalized this

or thought about this really,

but when you, I think talking about a relationship has triggered this like thought. It's like, now I haven't really like vocalizes or thought about this really.
But when you, I think talking about our relationship is triggered this like thought is like, now I'm entering the Drake and Josh phase where we should be like, bro, like partners, like this is our time. Like, let's do, let's be in this together.
Let's like, you know, this is just, this is just the first step. Like first it's's a show then we could do this and like been like really like our bonding but i came back to the same stage yeah the same parking lot the same dressing rooms the same green room the same makeup rooms the same it's like everything's triggering yes so now and in the back of my head, the whole time I'm working with the pilot, doing the

pilot, I know that there's this investigation happening. I know that this guy's about to get arrested.
I know that, I know that shit's about to hit the fan and nobody in here knows it. Yeah.
And I'm 14 or 15 and I'm like, got this whole production, this whole crew. He comes, he shows up one day, strolling on a set, walking around, everyone's talking And I'm'm sitting there going none of you have any idea what is in process right now and what's about to happen and are you furious that here we are surrounded by all these adults teachers in theory people that should have been protecting us protecting you yeah and that no one did that at that time no because at that time my I'm an adult you know i'm no no no in my 14 year old i want to be not not i'm adult that was a wrong way to say it i want to be an adult right i want to be seen as an adult i want to be you know i'm an actor like i want to be able to be sitting at the i don't want to be at the kids table like you know just because i'm 14 15 like I'm I'm an actor I want to be with my peers and like that and so I don't you don't really uh notice it that much but as you grow into an adult once I mean we're dads now yeah I think it's so illuminating it's unbelievably illuminating to see like how now it's really confusing yes now it's very confusing well to your point to how there could be that many people around and not do anything.
Like now that we have our kids. I'm like, what? It's beyond.
It's great. It's just crazy.
We'll talk about how many inappropriate things and just lack of protection there was when there should have been. Especially a place that's inviting kids.
Oh, yeah. In.
Oh, yeah. And something feel bad about is, like you mentioned before, and we'll talk about until you sort of shared with me what was happening, I was just looking at it through the prism of a 14-year-old's brain going like, ah, he doesn't want much to do with me.
And thankfully, everyone seeing who did know was galvanizing around you because God knows you needed the support and deserved every inch of it. I just I didn't know any of this at 14.
And in watching the documentary at 38, as a father, as a grown up, so much was revealed to me. Yeah.
And of what you had to go through, I can't even imagine that. And that was the bummer for me because if you remember, like when we were on the Amanda show,

I... of what you had to go through.
I can't even imagine that. And that was the bummer for me because if you remember, like when we were on the Amanda show, I think it was your birthday or something, but I was spending the night at your house and it was like the middle of the night and we were going to bed and we were just like, kind of like talking back and forth to each other.
I was like, all right. And this was, we were on the Amanda show.
Like we just started, you just started like just started on the Amanda show. And we were already talking about like, all right.
So when it's our show, what's it going to be like? And then we were talking about having Bobby Costanza. Oh, yeah.
Like Bobby Costanza could be my dad. And then, oh, yeah.
And you could have. Oh, maybe I maybe I like try to book your band like concerts, but I can only get you like to play it like a kid's's birthday party and then and we're and like literally i remember this like it was yesterday but we're we're like literally like and i'm like and i'll be the heartthrob and you'll be the funny chubby and you're like josh and i'm like not yet not yet so you know and that's where i always was and even when we we were working on Amanda and we had that moment, it really hit me, you

know, because when I don't know if you were a fan of Amanda as well, but the Amanda show

when Josh first came on, he was a new player.

So Amanda and I already had established characters.

So we would be doing a block blister and Josh would be the one that comes in and goes, hey,

this isn't what I rented and you guys are weird and blah, blah, blah. And then he would would have another.
So our characters were like separated. You know, it'd be like me and Amanda.
And then he would be the kid that she puts the stuff all over, you know. But we did this Tony Pajamas sketch and we had to go in and tell her a bedtime story.
But we were like basically, you know, 14 year old. Yeah, Sopranos.
Yeah, Danny DeVito. I mean, not Danny DeVito, Joe Pesci and Robert De Niro.
Did you ever see that, Ben? I haven't seen that sketch. No.
You haven't seen that sketch? No. It's pretty good.
Oh man. I think they have the bloopers on too, but that was the, that was the time we did that sketch.
And that was the first time where we were actually working together. And I'm like, I'm like, it's consigliere.
So Amanda's like, we're babysitting Amanda. And she goes, I want to hear a story.
And I go, she wants to hear about a story. Oh, you want to hear a story? I got a story.
All right. So you got this guy, right? He's driving his bike and he falls off and his kickstand goes right through his leg.
Right through his leg.

Yeah, there was blood and guts everywhere.

Everywhere.

And she's like, yeah, yeah, you're talking.

And so she's like, and then she's like,

I don't like this story.

She don't like the story.

I got ears.

Yeah, he's got ears.

And then I smack him in the back of the head.

This is crazy.

Oh my God.

It's so good.

You know the next line. I don't even fucking remember this.
What was that for? For being an idiot. Okay.
So. Oh my God.
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Find out exactly what you're booking for on Booking.com, Booking.yeah. So that right there, when I smacked him in the back of the head and he goes, what was that for? And for being an idiot he just goes okay and it was the funniest thing i'd ever seen in my life like i it just hit i it was so funny so i break now all right i'm a kind of a harvey corman sometimes all right i'm not so much of a jimmy fallon but you know i'll break sometimes and son And, you know, Josh don't like breaking sometimes.
He gets frustrated. He's like, dude, come on, man.
Like, come on, man. Like, that was a good one.
Like, dude, come on. And so I break.
I'm like, sorry, sorry, sorry. All right, let's do it again.
Let's do it again. I smack him in the back of the head.
The hat flies off. Okay.
And I just die laughing again, you know. And then finally we get it together and I hit him on the back of the head.
What was that for? For being an idiot. Okay.
And then everyone was laughing. It was just like this.
And I'm going to be kind of like dramatic here. But it was like this moment where, you know, I grew up and, you know, I used to show you this stuff all the time.
We used to watch this stuff. It was like Abbott and Costello, Martin and Lewis, Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor.
For some reason, I was always attracted to buddy comedies growing up. Even stuff like, I would even call Lucy and Ricky, like Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball.
That's a buddy comedy. That's just what I, the type of comedy that I loved was the straight man, funny man, the set up, the put down, the boom, boom, boom, just that.
I was always into that type of comedy bing crosby bob hope all that and it was like that moment where i went and all i ever wanted was like and i you know i didn't know i always want to be like dean martin but i also wanted to be jerry lewis i'm like i want to make people laugh but i also want to sing songs and like get the girl yeah be the crooner and so i didn't know i was like i i always wanted it was like but who's gonna be like my jerry lewis or who's gonna be my guy like i need i need i need somebody else you know i'm like i'm doing this thing with amanda that's cool you know but like no i need like my partner yeah like my my steve martin and my john candy i need i need the you know why are they all chubby yeah well not all of was never a good-looking deal. What about Martin and Sinatra? Well, there was some Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra stuff.
But so it was that moment where I was like, holy, I just got like, this could be something. This could be my thing.
And it's a bummer because then we started doing so much more stuff to get like one one of my favorites is when we played the Boy Scouts and we had, they didn't give us anything a lot. Like they would just be like, we would just go into hair and makeup and they would just throw some wig on us and give us a script and didn't tell us like what the character was or what it was.
So we just kind of had to make it up on the fly. And it was the one that was like, you know, you know, he snores, I And we played the Boy Scouts.
And so we're doing more and more and more and stuff like that. And I'm getting so excited because I'm like just living this dream of like I'm doing the thing that I've always wanted to do and I've got my partner to do it with in this whole thing.
And then when the show ended, then it went into all of that darkness, darkness all that stuff and i had to come back to working with my partner with going oh i've got all this stuff that nobody knows about that's going on oh is this gonna hurt our show is this gonna when this drops is josh gonna look at me and be like bro you took our dream away like you took my dream like everything like are we gonna lose our show are we gonna lose is nickel going to just like be like, well, this is like, like what, like there was all of that was happening. Dude, I was losing my hair.
Like I had these giant like scabs on my head. I was losing my hair.
I had no idea why. And I went to the doctor and the doctor was checking everything.
He's like, yeah, you know, there's, everything's normal, but how's your stress lately? And I was like, well, it's actually really high. He goes, well, that's what this is.
All this is from stress. I was like, and I mean, I couldn't.
I mean, I must have been because these were like golf ball size, like scabs where I'm losing my head. And then I'm like, I got to go back.
I got to go shoot. I got to go be on the set like soon.
Even the circumstance of a kid actor in show business under the most perfect circumstance is probably too much pressure for one to handle at that age. And knowing what you were facing and having to go through and not able to share.
And I remember, I know, you know, we had lunch last weekend to kind of like just catch up and talk about how we wanted to do the pod. And I shared this with you.
I remember, so we had this year or two where we just kind of, we were both there, but we weren't really there. And then it felt like something had turned around and maybe, and you can please tell me, I don't want to speak for you.
Maybe you knew that it was like, finally, Brian was going to go to jail and get arrested. And so we start to like, our friendship starts coming back and it might, maybe it was your 16 16th birthday but i remember you invited me down to your parents house in orange county and so your stepdad roy shout out roy drove me joe was there right joe was there his 16th birthday yeah and roy drove me down because i didn't have a license and we went to christian comedy yeah it was great yeah it was actually funny i actually funny.
I remember being so terrified. Like, I like my mom, my sweet mother.
She's such a good church going lady. God bless her.
She's like, Josh loves comedy and stand up comedy. Like there's this thing going on at the church with comedy.
He'll love it. And I was just like, not that kind of comedy, mom.
Not that kind of comedy. What's the deal with the apostles? But I got to say, one of the best Drake and Josh memes is, Drake, where's the body of Christ? Yes.
That's a great one. So good.
But anyway, so we go to Christian comedy. Just an example of how Christian comedy can be funny, because that meme is hilarious.
But so anyway, it was funny. But anyway, well, sorry.
No. I'm defending Christian comedy.
I'm going to defend. I have no skin in the game for Christian comedy.
I just felt the need to defend Christian comedy. If there's one show where you don't need to defend Christian comedy, I don't know if you know, you're on the most Jewish podcast in America.
So we're good. We get call-ins for the show that we play.
We'll play at the end of the show. And it'll be like, hi, I'm your only non-Jewish listener.
Oh, my God. Anyway, I remember we have this wonderful Christian comedy night.
And we have your mom's famous enchiladas, I believe. Yeah.
Excellent. Why like that they're good because no because you know they weren't good no they were bomb i love them so my mom they were my mom they were enchilicious grew up very poor okay so she learned everything she learned about cooking about everything she was extremely poor.
So that's all she knows how to cook. But by the way, some of the best food.
My mom. Yeah, but my.
All right. Maybe it's not because she's just poor.
She's just a bad guy. We're cutting that out.
Thank God she married Roy. I'm cutting that out for you.
Thank God she married Roy. I will not let your enchiladas get dragged.
Chicken enchilada casserole. It's chicken enchilada casserole.
I loved it growing up because I had no culture and I grew up in that house and that was all I've eaten and that's all I knew. It was that and Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
So it was delicious. Now, as an adult, I apologize that I subjected you to that.
No. I remember your face.
I could read your thoughts and I just, you know, want to apologize. I can't imagine Josh was unhappy with a chicken enchilada at that time.
I don't believe it. No, there is.
You know, big people are not a monolith, Ben. Yes, they are.
Yes, they are. But yeah, you brought this up to me at lunch and I totally forgotten about it.
But that's... Well, I remember I'd had a feeling because Brian, who was ever-present during the Amanda show, and then...
Well, that's another thing, too. You can kind of like...
It was like ever-present, right? Yeah. Just everywhere that...
Which is kind of the story for people like that. And then he was gone.
And I didn't know anything except I had a feeling something. Something happened.
And I remember we're in the car. It was you, me, and Jill.
And I said, still talk to Brian? And you just looked at me like, no. Brian's a really bad guy.
And I remember thinking, gotcha. And it was all that I needed to know.
And I didn't know anything more than that, but I was like, that's clear. Gotcha.
And I wasn't talking to people like that. I think because we were so close that I was like, you're one of the cats that I'm not going to maybe divulge, but you need to know now that that's not a good person.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I remember, I think it was months after this, I got a text from someone who worked on the show saying, Brian's arrested. Wow.
He's going to jail. And I think through my simple teenager mind, I just thought, oh, thank God.
Like, thank God he's going to jail. Good.
Like, and it's only in watching the doc that I can realize that just him being put to justice, which thank God he was and deserved and deserved to go longer. But like, what about you? Yeah.
What about the trauma you endured? Yeah. It's so much, it's so much deeper.
It's so much more unacceptable than all that. It's not this clean.
Well, he went to jail, so everyone's all better now. And you know, it was hard, I think, during that time because you only know when we went to court, the entire side of his courtroom was full of people who I thought were my friends and people who I looked up to, people whose careers I would like mine to be one day.

And I'm like on the side with like Robert and Roy and I think it was uh me and my mom I think Michael might have been there it's it's hard to see my that's where the memories like kind of get fuzzy yeah I think Michael was there but that man I had a good point here But anyway, seeing that side of the courtroom was like,

okay, so is it just because we think it's wrong?

I mean, it got to be this whole thing of like,

wait, but no, he's the bad guy.

You should be over here.

Wait, are we the,

it was almost like when I got in my car accident.

I was in a left-hand turn lane,

going to make a left, sitting on my brake at a red light. The guy fell asleep, crossed the lane, hit me head on.
But immediately, I get out of the car and I'm thinking, you know, I'm a 19-year-old kid. This has got to be my fault.
I must have been somewhere. I must have thought that was a left-hand turn lane.
I must have been in the wrong place. I must have been like this.
Yeah. This has to be my fault,

you know,

because obviously this adult

that's driving this giant Mercedes

didn't just fall asleep

and go across lanes and hit me.

It's got to be my fault.

And so it kind of like apply that to like

when you see that courtroom like that,

right?

Yes.

You're like,

oh, well,

I must have done something wrong.

And this must just be some process that like has to happen because like, you know, you broke the law and this is bad, oh, well, I must have done something wrong. And this must just be some process that has to happen because you broke the law and this is bad.
But in the reality and in the culture and in this town. Yes.
Like, you're all good, bro. Because look.
Right. And then there's 41 letters.
And then who knows who, you know, like we were talking at lunch. It's like, how many people were like, bro, I'm not putting pen to paper.
No, no, they're going to be sealed. Yeah, I'm sure.
And then in 20 years, when somebody makes a documentary and unseals them, my name's going to be out there? No, sir. But I'll take you to dinner and anything you ever need, man, I'm in your corner.
How many of those were there that didn't write the letter? You know, so it's like if there's people who wrote that. So then it just becomes this onion of like where through this whole time I thought like, OK, well, there's this bad person in Hollywood and watch out for them.
But you can find them everywhere, you know, and don't watch out when your kids are in soccer practice. Watch out when you're in your, you know, in your office building, whatever, anything.
But it became, oh, wait, it's not just the there's like the protectors and then the people who like are down to just like, I don't know. It's just this whole it became this whole like I was on the blacklist and there was a cabal and I was like Raymond Reddington ready to just like take everyone out.
Yeah, I mean, you talked about this in the doc, but for you to find these 41 letters that they discovered of people who were sort of writing basically they were like they were character witnesses of bryant's right like defending him yeah and you and i talked and feel free if you don't want to talk about it of just like how shattering that well i read you i read you one of them i mean you could give it's fucking bonkers i mean it's insane the audience a taste of what i mean i mean from what that just that one letter i mean i just it was it's absolutely insane and unfortunately what was allowed what was the group think at this time that any of this could have been allowed in any respect and at 14 i remember going this relationship's inappropriate Yeah but assuming well remember remember my birthday at his house i don't so i remember that but i'm not sure i was there no you were there or i think i left quite early you probably did you probably left early but it was weird bro yeah it was strange like you know i was just in it and and and you know like for me like you guys were there and michael yeah and the people from the show and And the grip, you know, just camera guy. Like, I was just in it.
And, you know, like for me, like you guys were there and Michael. Yeah.
And the people from the show and the group, you know, like just camera guy. Like it was just like it was like it was like if we were having the birthday on set.
It was like it was like those people, you know. So there was like sort of this like that's not that strange.
But yeah, it's just looking back. It was just all like, how is this? How is this? How is nobody seeing like what the intentions are here it's just wild and i think so much too and olivia and ben please you know pipe in here like i think up until the last 10 years with the me too movement and so many of these like villainous characters being brought to justice like this behavior is unacceptable but you know saw the extremes of it, but then there were so many like micro infractions.
There were so many things that you would see on set in a day and just go like, I don't know if that'd be cool anywhere else, but here. And so when you had tyrannical bosses or just people acting inappropriately, I think the assumption was in Hollywood, like this was just kind of part of it.
And also, I think that, you know, it's like when you're it's like when you're hanging out with your older brothers and, you know, they're talking about the girls and they're talking about this. Like, you're like, yeah, I'm going to join in because you want to be part.
And we have that same feeling when we're our age on a set this episode of the good guys podcast is brought to you by our friends at neutrophil first and foremost folks we're in our 30s it is what it is we're gonna start to see a little bit of shedding it's no big deal it's no big deal it happens to everyone it's only a big deal if you do nothing about it okay you can complain to me if you're taking things and it's not working, but if you're not doing anything, I don't wanna hear it. Nutrafol is here to help us decrease our shedding.
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Carraway, non-toxic cookware made modern. I want to hear from Ben and Olivia.
Like what, what was your guys view of show business at that time? And, and before the doc came out, just like, what did you guys think? The documentary was completely eye-opening for me because I had no idea. Like you're watching it and you're just like, oh, these are actors, a thousand percent.
Like I would watch the two of you and it wouldn't even click in my brain that we're the same age, but I'm a kid at home and you're a kid on set. Like it never, ever at all clicked until I watched the documentary and learned about what it's like.
Like Drake, as you mentioned, like this idea that you're not an adult, but you're being treated like an adult and you're with adults and you're subjected to, like Josh and I have talked about it a little bit, just like the homeschooling of it all and then having to be on set and never being able to take days off. And just like, again, I'm at home and I'm eating a pudding and I'm watching Drake and Josh with my dad.
And and you guys are like working. It's just it's it's mind blowing.
I can't even wrap my head around it. I grew up watching the show, too, and was a huge fan.
My grandpa and I would watch it every day after school. And I always wanted like it just seemed to like another child, like it was so much fun.
And like it was so I was like envious, like I wanted to be there, you know, and like be on set and have all of these like, you know, it seemed like you were all friends and like you're working with a bunch of kids your own age and like there's not as much supervision and that kind of thing. So it was like almost like I think the networks as a whole like sold this dream of like what being like a Nick kid or a Disney kid would be like.
But like you, you know, to all of your points, like you're so young and the reality was just like so the opposite of what like I perceived it to be at the time, you know? Yeah. And so I just like I mean, one, my heart goes out because like I can't imagine like losing those formative years or, you know, like being given such responsibility and pressure at that age when you are like just beginning to figure out like bits and pieces of who you are and how you interact with other people and it just seems like the marketing of it all was like a you know a lie well that's an interesting it's a really interesting point olivia brings up and i'd love to hear your thought because like both things can be true right and so then we we finish and you know what the show means to everyone.

You know that the moments that were great were great.

And we were incredibly lucky to get to do this thing that we loved.

But there's also the truth of everything you went through and everything that was just an experience for a kid that was unacceptable in so many ways. And you wrestle with this idea of like, I remember people would ask me about the show or something and I would say, well, I lost a hundred pounds and had to get sober at 21.
Did I seem happy? Yeah. It's sort of, it's a bit of a sign, but you also go like, how much do I just like keep this to myself and allow this wonderful memory for the people to just continue to exist.
Yeah.

Did you wrestle with that? Yeah. I mean, definitely because, you know, I, I have a big, I'm a big fan and I, when I meet somebody that I'm a fan of, I've had both experiences.
Yeah. I've had the get away from me, kid, you're bothering me.
And then I've had, you know, oh, cool. Yeah.
You know, like when I met Dick Van Dyke, you know, I like run up to him because he's like leaving this appearance and I just ran up to him and I was like, Dick, Dick, I just, hi, my name's Drake. I'm a big fan.
I just want to tell you, Dick Van Dyke's show is my favorite show of all time growing up. It's my favorite show of all time.
He stopped, turned around, and he goes, oh, you like, you a fan of the show? And I'm like, yeah, it was my my favorite one of my favorite shows of all time i mean like you're yeah like because you know why that show was great carl reiner carl's writing you know and i'm like i mean there's a group of he's like he was at some hotel like leaving the state like i could have been anybody right but he stopped and had that moment with me and that i was like because he's used to his fans being 50 yeah yeah he's like what you like me he's like i haven't gotten this much love since the last convention but so i've had that so i did have that like reservation of and this is gonna like you know because i i had a lot of people reaching out like you know oh don't worry drake we'll never watch the show ever again like, oh, now watching the show, it's so hard to know what you were going through while you were making this. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Like, dude, when lights, camera, action, and I walk in and Josh is wearing a dress, like, that's what I'm- Were we ahead of the times? But that was where I actually was comfortable and happy and stoked. And I'm very proud of what we did.
And I'm, you know, I loved the show. And I was showing a friend of mine who had never seen the show.
And it was like, what? You've never seen? I was like, I'm going to show it. Let me just show you a couple episodes.
And I watched like paging the doctor episode. Yeah.
Running over Oprah. Yeah.
And I think one other one.

So good.

It was in that third,

fourth season where I hadn't watched the show for a while.

And I was watching the show and I was like,

this is like science.

I was like,

this is really good.

I'm like,

like our timing.

I'm like,

there was like some things that you had said, like in the bed,

in the hospital room.

And it wasn't even a joke.

Like it was just a response, like to set me up. It was just to get the scene in the hospital room and it wasn't even a joke like it was just a

response like to set me up it was just to get the scene to the next point you know and it like

wasn't even a joke but like you said it and it was like a huge laugh and I'm like cracking up and

I'm like I'm like that's what that's the magic that like people don't get it's like oh just put

these two put put two guys together and they'll be funny or whatever and it was like those wow

am I getting am I tearing up right now I know I am too but it's like that's the kind of

Thank you. It's like, oh, just put these two, put two guys together and they'll be funny or whatever.
And it was like those, wow, am I getting, am I tearing up right now? I know, I am too kind of. But it's like, that's the kind of things where like, it would be like, like, whoa, just take it easy, man, right? Like, that's not a joke in the script, you know? We just picked up on these little things and we would do these little things, you know, that were like, it just made us us and like made it what, I don't know.
It just gave it that special thing, you know? No, it was very special. And it was, you can't recreate it.
And I, you know, and looking back in hindsight to sort of close the loop on the question Ben asked 40 minutes ago. But he said it so beautifully for this great talk, which I'm so glad.
I remember my wife's close friend, good family friend, Libby. She said, I told her we were going to do this.
And she's like, oh, my God. She's like, and who cares if you even air it? Yeah.
Like, at least you guys are really talking it out. Yeah.
You know? Yeah. Well, I was talking to Janet, the same thing.
And she was like, you know, it's just all the people who know us. You know, it's like, it's really cool to just like get, because at lunch we were talking about it too.
And it was funny because it was a short lunch. It was, he had to, he was with the kids that day.
And I was driving home and I was like, oh, I forgot to tell him this. Oh, I forgot to tell him this.
Oh, I wanted to tell him about this. And then I was like, oh, I'll just text him about it.
I'm like, no, no, no. It was so funny.
I'm like, no, no, don't text him. That'll bother him.
Like, wait till he texts you. He played cool.
Yeah. Yeah, he'll that'll bother him like wait till he texts you yeah i was like wait till he texts you like don't look like too excited then you've had that with me too right you know you know you like to play hard to get it's so funny it's like an ex-girlfriend yeah, yeah.
An ex-girlfriend that you like, you like really want to get back with.

Yeah.

Oh, man. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.