The Hidden Ways Trauma Affects Your Business + How To Overcome It | EP 97

Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast, where today we're exploring what becomes possible when you break free from playing small and lead with more clarity, purpose, and trust.

We're specifically going to be talking about how do you use business as a personal development path and how do you practically scale with alignment so that you have more freedom.

Joining us is Dan Martel, a nine-figure business owner, five-time founder, investor, and author of Buy Back Your Time.

And his life is living proof that no matter where you're starting, it's never too late to build a life that you are proud of.

I'm so happy to have you on, Dan.

I want to just start off by sharing with everybody that I read your book within a matter of days.

And I start a lot of books.

I don't finish a lot of books.

So it says a lot to me between the value I got, how applicable it was to me.

So I just want to say thank you for the work that you were doing in the world.

And I know that you have a lot of success.

You've got a lot of, you know, success, but also freedom, freedom with impact, freedom with time.

And I wanted to have you on because you also value doing the inner work and some of the mindset shifts as well.

You've had this incredible career and you also mentor and coach a lot of entrepreneurs.

And sometimes people can get really stuck in blame.

And I'm just curious, in terms of your experience, has there been a lesson or a hack that people can do internally to really help them be more successful or something that really changed the game for you?

That's such a great question.

I love it.

Well, honestly, it's an honor to be here.

here, as I was mentioning.

You know, I spent a lot of time with this thing called AI that everybody seems to have on the tip of their tongue and they can't stop talking about it.

And yeah, it's powerful.

But what I've discovered for me is that just because you give me a clear path doesn't mean I take a step towards it, which is fascinating to me because then we got to go to the mindset.

So when I look back on my journey, from,

you know,

colorful childhood is how I like to jokingly talk about it.

But obviously going to prison twice by the time I was 17 had an impact on me.

I think, you know, you talked about accountability and blame.

That would probably be the biggest thing.

I remember when I was in rehab, I was 17 years old.

And when I first showed up, I was mad at everybody.

I was mad at my mom.

for the way she raised me.

I was mad at my dad for not being around.

I was mad at the counselors for the way they talked to me.

I was mad at the prison guards for the situation.

I was mad at the city I grew up in.

I was blaming everybody.

And

I think one of the things that's beautiful about the program I did 11 months at this place called Portage.

It was a therapeutic community.

We essentially read the morning prayer is what they called it.

And it was a combination of a lot of stuff like serenity prayer and a few other things.

And it was, I accept that I am my situation.

Like just the idea of repeating that, that I created my,

the world I live in is one I created and I have to accept my situation, whether it doesn't make it right or wrong.

It doesn't make that this person's decision, you know, obviously it impacted me.

But I went from being a pissed off, angry kid to somebody that realized that if I want to be happy, there's only one person that's going to make me happy and it was me at 17.

So this is a crazy part because people meet me today and they're like, you're really good at this.

You're really good at that.

Why do you think, you know, were you always like that?

I'm like, no.

But I know where I learned it.

And it's wild to think how much the business stuff that I do today

was impacted by the 11 months of rehab that I had the privilege, privilege of going to.

Like wouldn't change a thing, grateful for the experience.

Was definitely hard.

Almost got kicked out three times.

But that's where I learned that.

There's this locus of control.

It's not something they told us because I think it was a little too advanced for us, but I learned later on in life.

And today on a daily basis, I pretty much remind myself to control the controllables.

I can't control the tariffs.

I can't control how team members respond to situations.

I can't literally, I can't control.

I can't control my kids.

I can just reinterpret the meaning or the story that I tell myself.

And that's probably the freeingest thing in the world.

Yeah.

I would agree.

And I, I, you know, it sounds like even in your childhood, going to anger was a protection mechanism.

A lot of the time when we don't feel safe, if you consistently felt angry, it was because it worked, right?

You got your voice heard in some way.

That was a way to look for safety.

And so it worked in your family system, but then it wasn't working in other systems.

And so share with us a little bit about your story, just so people have a picture of what's possible for them too, because I think that they.

think that their life defines them, their past defines them, that they can't do it, they've missed opportunities.

And really your story of pain and challenge and what I'm hearing from you is what sets you up for success and being intentional about creating the life you have.

Yeah, it's kind of wild looking back because when I share it, a lot of people kind of can't believe it.

They see, they see my relationship with my brothers and my sisters say and my parents.

I mean, I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was 11.

I got put on Ritalin.

At a very young age, I always remember the neighborhood kids, the parents treating me like I was different, like I was, like I was, and I, and I was.

Like, I mean, I can't deny the fact that like

I was the one that always got the other kids in trouble.

So, you know, knowing what I know now, if my kids were hanging out with a group of kids, a kid that was always getting out, I'd be like, hey, let's stop hanging out with them.

But man, I used to have to hide in the woods just to play with my neighborhood friends, you know, 11, 12, 13 years old.

So, and then the anger thing, you're 100% right.

I didn't know how to

feel heard or seen.

And I knew, and again, I learned this later on in therapy that when I got mad, and I'm talking like, I think people sometimes, I'm assuming most people get to this level of anger at least once or twice, or maybe three times.

Maybe some people live in it all the time.

But I used to get so mad as a kid that it was,

I wasn't there.

Like the dan that's here

was not present.

It was pure rage.

It was, I see red, everything needs to be broken.

Everybody has to feel my pain.

I don't want anybody to feel safe.

And,

and that's honestly why my parents eventually had to call the police and have me put in into the system.

I went to a crisis center first for two weeks and then a group home or I went into a foster home.

And eventually I got kicked out of the foster home.

I was the first and last kid this foster dad Dave ever got.

I was a little wild.

And then I ended up in a group home.

I turned 13 in this group home, hanging out with people 16, 17 years old that had just gotten out of juvenile detention, teaching me stuff I definitely shouldn't have been learning.

So

that was the upbringing.

And then I got turned in, I got introduced to drugs.

And that's, that's the spiral.

Like one thing about me is I have an addictive personality.

So I don't play video games.

I don't gamble.

I don't drink.

I don't, there's a lot of stuff I don't do because I know me.

Luckily, I founded,

you know, in many ways.

as a therapist, you can appreciate this.

Like the difference between me and the person that's homeless on the street, it's actually actually quite small.

Like the, there's an adaptation.

Mine was just positive, right?

I eventually went down a different route, whereas I could have easily adapted to the pain in a different way.

And

what happened and where things changed is I ended up getting in a high-speed chase, almost took my life, and

got sentenced to two years in prison.

I was in adult prison, even though I was a juvenile, just because of my background and previous crimes at that point.

And I got in a fight in jail and thrown into the hole, solitary confinement.

And on the third day, the door opened, and there was this guard named Brian standing there.

And Brian pulled me aside and brought me into the guard unit, which he wasn't supposed to.

I'd never been there.

I've been there for six months and we'd never seen the inside of the one-way mirrored glass in the cell block.

And he sits me down and he looks at me and he he goes, what are you doing here?

And I remember as a 16 year old, I'm like, well, I got in high-speed chase.

And he goes, not that.

He goes, what are you doing here?

And I'm like, well, I got in a fight with Kurt.

And he's like, not the fight, Dan.

Like, what are you doing in this place?

I've been working here for like a decade.

I've seen hundreds of kids and like, I see you.

And it makes no sense to me that you're in this place.

Like, you don't belong here.

And he goes, you got to do whatever you can to get out of here.

Maybe for the first time, maybe somebody had said it before, but I don't remember any adult ever kind of saying that to me.

And he saw, he saw potential in me when I didn't even feel like I deserved to breathe the air.

I was taken.

And that, that was the beginning of the seed of the Dan is always bad.

Dan is always getting in trouble.

Dan is a troublemaker to maybe I'm not.

Maybe I'm just, I haven't been put in a situation to win or succeed.

And maybe I'm not that bad.

And, you know, a few months later, I got released to that rehab center.

And that was where the journey kind of shifted.

So it's kind of nuts.

And even crazier than that is today, if you follow me on social media, you know, the thing where I made my wealth was in software.

I learned to code at 17 in rehab.

So it's like, when I say I'm grateful for all of that, I can't even imagine.

I get out of rehab in 1997 and discover this little thing called the internet.

And that's what allowed me to build and exit companies in my 20s that allowed me to live this incredible life where I fly around on my own jet and build companies with incredible entrepreneurs and write books that people seem to enjoy.

Yeah.

And one of the things I really love about your story is that the power of one person truly seeing you.

beyond all of the behavior underneath all of that to really connect.

And so I just want to highlight not to overlook the power of one person in our lives, whether it be.

It's the power of belief.

And it's, I didn't, I kind of refused the knowledge or knowingness of that for a long time because I didn't want the responsibility.

Today, not only did I lean into it.

I mean, a lot of the motivation for me to create the content I do is to be that person for other people, if not in person, virtually, but even in person.

Like in two days, I host this monthly event called King's Club, where I mentor young men, 15 to 20-year-old young men that are struggling in life that want to learn from me.

And I teach them the how to be, it's funny because, like, I teach them, I use the make money thing to attract, I call it the chocolate broccoli.

Like, the chocolate is, do you want to get rich?

I do the same thing.

The broccoli is, let's talk about being a great person, you know, and changing your situation.

Exactly.

So,

you know, many ways that one conversation with Brian for me 28 years ago has turned into me being the Brian for hundreds of thousands of people at this point.

It's kind of wild.

Yeah.

And that ripple effect that happens as you change your life, but it starts with you and you really heard it.

And bless Brian for all that he's done.

And all of us, the ways that we really get to connect and see people and we do the work within ourselves first.

I know as a psychotherapy, having worked as a psychotherapist, I work more in coaching now, but I know like emotional intelligence and healing work is my jam, but I love mixing it with entrepreneurship and business.

And I don't think people talk enough about the correlation between your pain and how that shows up at work.

That, you know, as you scale your business, so you scale your patterns.

Like if you have patterns of control, trying to do it all,

you know, not trusting people or just like,

fear of abandonment.

Like just knowing it covers wild.

Yeah.

Nobody really talks about that because I think people really get the carrot of like, when I make more money, those things go away.

It's like, no, those things get bigger as you get bigger and your company gets bigger.

It really does reflect in your teams, in the way that you're living your life.

And so, for somebody that's in a growth phase right now, how do they recognize when their patterns are what the real issue is in their company?

And, like, what's a shift they can do to help get more clear so that they don't unconsciously perpetuate that in their teams and in their work?

It's such a great question.

You're really good at this.

You know,

my mind wants to go to the five-time assassins, which I talk about in my book, because I think a lot of us thrive in chaos.

I know I still do.

Like, I know my happy place is when there's problems around me that I feel qualified to help and solve and resolve.

The risk is when you're unconsciously creating those problems.

That's right.

And that's why I had to write that chapter.

But what my heart wants to talk about is this concept that I've been playing with called the trauma trust barrier.

Because you kind of talked about it.

All business problems are personal problems that show up in the business.

100%.

Period, full stop.

Like I always joke with my team, like business would be easy if it wasn't for people.

And it's like so true.

And business,

you know, it's kind of the double-edged sword because it's only fun because of the people, right?

what our teams and customers do for us is they show us who we are.

I mean, I think that's why, like, if you're really, you know, in tune with your, your partnership and, you know, your marriage or whatever, like, that's, that's what your partner does for you, right?

So

when I think of how do I identify where my work to be done is,

I always look at the, the roots of the fruit because if I keep, it's funny, like the other day I was talking to a friend and she's on her third marketing hire.

And I said, have you identified the pattern?

And she goes, what pattern?

I said, well, there's a common denominator.

Like there's three people that are no longer in your life, but there was one person that's consistent in those three, you know, projects and it's you.

I said, so have you like figured out why you continue to hire the wrong person?

You know, well, I didn't think I did.

Well,

you'd be surprised.

Let's talk about it.

And what she found out was

she was scared to hire somebody knew more than her because then she wouldn't know how to manage them.

So it was safe for her to hire a marketing person that she could lead,

which made her the bottleneck, which means she'd always have to, the person was always being told what to do, which means the marketing person didn't have the autonomy and the ability to do the thing.

And that's the trauma trust barrier.

And

in that same vein, I'm talking to my other friend, and he's got to downsize his business, but there's seven people he doesn't want to let go.

And these seven people have been with him for 14 years.

And when I said, well,

out of the seven people, out of the team of 20, you got to downsize everybody.

Like, who's the top performers?

Those seven names didn't come up.

And I was like, I think you keep them around because it's safe.

Not because they're the best person for the role and because it allows you to never worry because essentially he was paying them all six-figure jobs.

So how could they leave?

They would never get paid that anywhere else.

He was the person that was supporting their life.

And he, it never occurred to him that it had to do with the fear of abandonment.

And I thought that was just such a obvious thing when I'm sitting back looking at the pattern.

And he's like, oh, yeah, maybe you're, I'm like, no, that's like, I said, what would be the worst case if you hired somebody that was really competent and then they left you?

And he's like, well, that wouldn't feel good.

I said, I know, but it would be the end of the world.

Well, no.

That might be a better solution to finding somebody to fix the business.

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Yeah, and that the business is just going to keep reflecting back.

I really did.

There was a point where I thought all, I mean, I'm masterful in the inner work and how that reflects in the outer work.

And I genuinely had myself duped thinking, but team's different.

That if I, it's just about hiring the right person, quote unquote.

And so I, I thought it genuinely, I couldn't see it with team until I started doing what you're saying, like looking at patterns, looking at what do I fear would happen if I had what was ideal.

And then I could see what the alternative payoff was for why I was continuing.

That's a great question to get to the root of it.

How did you frame that?

What would I fear would happen?

If you got what you wanted, or said it another way.

Yeah, it's like if I got the perfect marketing person, I fear.

And then I like that language of ideal.

There was the way you said it just from my heart was like, I could get to that place and go, oh, there's now there's a gap.

Yeah.

And then you listen deeply.

So it's from the subconscious, not from your conscious mind, which is only 5%

of

change comes from your conscious mind.

So you got to really listen silently inside.

What do I fear would happen if I had my ideal?

Fill in the blank.

And then just you have your own answers.

It's just about unpacking that so you can hear your own wisdom.

Yeah.

And I think

I think Gabor Mate says that entrepreneurship is a trauma response.

Yeah, that's what's saying earlier about like my adaptation to my situation just caused me to find a trauma response that was positive in this societal structure that we live in.

And the difference between me and the person that's literally homeless on the side of the street is very thin.

Like

we're kind of cut from the same cloth.

Totally.

And it's, and, and I think one of the most powerful things that I've found in personal development work in general is obviously everything is a reflection of you, your relationship, your kids, your health, your business.

And if you look at it that way, like you're saying, you're taking 100% responsibility for your life and your, whatever your situation is as you shift it inside.

And it's usually around feeling the thing we're avoiding, which opens us to the freedom that we deeply desire.

So if we are avoiding failure, abandonment, rejection, whatever the thing is, if we can stretch the capacity to feel that very thing, ironically, it opens us to what we wanted on the other side.

But a lot of people have avoidance patterns.

So they they move away from unworthiness or failure.

And ironically, when failure is fully met and you learn how to do it through emotional intelligence, it can move through your body within under two minutes and you instantly feel a greater sense of confidence and capacity to navigate that feeling.

You're not moving away from it and make bolder decisions.

You're clear in your mindset.

You're not dysregulated.

So just giving people this sense, because we haven't talked a lot about it on the podcast, how these two worlds marry of business and

somatic inquiry or emotional intelligence, because that's really where to me the unlock is.

Yeah, that is fascinating.

I've never heard anybody explain the emotional intelligence side that way.

That's really cool.

It's super powerful.

And I know one of the things you're really passionate about is talking about how kind of some of our earlier structures of learning and systems set us up to learn in a particular way to avoid failure, to avoid taking risks.

Talk to us about how those earlier on programs shift and show up as an entrepreneur later in life.

yeah i think when i was younger because again when you start off in this world and

you know you don't have a track record of making good decisions and eventually you know you go to a place where they talk about blind faith because like literally getting sober at first you're just like i don't even know if this is going to work and they're like you know they say things like you got to work the system for it to work and you have to have blind faith.

And, you know, even if you don't trust, just, you know, kind of act as if and all these things.

So then I get out and, you know, I'm like going to school and I'm thinking about like, okay, well, now I got to get a job.

But I just knew me.

I'm like, I don't think I'm like, I just don't see a world where I'm employable.

Like I'm too opinionated.

And

honestly, a lot of folks ask me, they're like, Dan, did you always have the vision for the life you live today?

I'm like, no, no, my,

I was just trying to stay sober.

The first two years of getting out,

can I just please not relapse?

Can I, can i not break my mom's heart again can i i mean the second time my dad the first time i went to a juvenile detention he said because it was so hard on him he said if you ever come back i can't come visit

and the second time he didn't come once

and i was just like i was so scared

and then you know i i just i made a decision to like

and it was actually a privilege because

i i meet i mentor a lot of kids just through my social media and stuff.

And,

you know, some of them grow up with parents that are very like, you got to do this.

You got to have straight A's.

You got to go to university.

You have to be a doctor, a lawyer.

And I'm just, there's a lot of expectations on these, these young children, you know?

And I'm like, don't, I had none.

So I had the privilege that nobody had any.

They were like, I really hope Dan doesn't end up dead or in a ditch.

Like

that would be a win.

So when I just, I remember telling my dad, like, I'm going to go all in and do the business stuff.

He did say he's like, this could be the worst decision you ever make.

And in the same breath, he was like,

as long as you stay sober, like, I'll be here to support you.

And that's when I realized how this,

this world of risk works, right?

And

these, the stories I made up about what's true, that's just so not true, you know?

know, so like my favorite thing to do with young, young entrepreneurs or people just getting going is just say, okay, let's, let's pretend, let's go worst case.

Like even today, and I don't do it often, but like

maybe a decade ago, I remember I was like really doubling down on some big moves.

And,

you know, I was, I was exposed and there was a chance that if it didn't work out, I was going to, it would have kind of toppled a bit.

And I remember I was like, okay, what's worst case?

I called my brother up and I I said hey bro

worst case because my kids at the time were like one in two like very young

just got married and I said worst case if this doesn't work out can I come stay at your house it'll probably take me six months to get back on my feet the cousins can hang out the babies can hang out the moms can hang out Kind of sounds awesome, but I just want you to know that that might happen, but it probably won't.

But if it did, it'd be good to know that I can depend on you.

And he's like, not only is that awesome.

And of course, but can I do the same for you?

I said, What do you mean?

He goes, I don't know, man.

You really, he said, I, he admired the fact that I was willing to take that risk because he, he felt like he was playing a little safe in his life.

And me saying to him, oh, a hundred percent

allowed him, I think you'd have to ask him to then go,

it feels good to know that my worst case scenario is literally living with one of my best friends, my brother, my other brother is one of my best friends and having our family spend six months together.

It's kind of, after we said it out loud, we're kind of like, we should probably do that anyway.

Sounds awesome.

Let's go rent a house in Italy or something and bring the families together.

But I just find that that's a, that's a really fun question because

in the answer, you can then go, would that be that bad?

Or could you, could you live with it?

You know, like a lot of the,

the people in my world, they're all like these tech people that want to start software companies and they're thinking of quitting their job and going to an accelerator and like they give them half a million dollars day one they're these are people that come from facebook and google i'm like your worst case is making a million dollars as a software programmer where you're already working like I don't even think you think like that's not risk.

I don't see that as risk.

But I think that that was the big takeaway for me.

When I started making decisions in spite of the fear, because that's what courage is, in spite of the fear, I still made the decision.

And then on the backside of that, realizing that my worst case fear wasn't even plausible, let alone the worst case with something super tolerable.

Then I was like, oh,

and okay, well, let's do that again.

Let's try that again.

Let's, you know, like, what if I hire the wrong person?

Worst case, I let them go quickly and kindly and professionally.

And

okay,

all right, I'm not going to, I'm not going to sit on my heels and wait and not make a decision on hire.

I'm just gonna hire them and I'm not committing to a year.

It's like some people are like, oh my God, it's a hundred thousand dollar hire.

No, it's not.

It's $8,000 a month.

And worst case, you'll figure it out in 60 days.

And what I love what you're doing, though, is you're taking the drama out of it and you're going to the more of the practical facts.

So it's less of all this emotionality.

And it's like, okay, let's actually break down the facts.

What would happen and how bad would that be?

But you're also willing to face it instead of avoid it.

because when we avoid something it just gets bigger i think people think avoidance works it just postpones it and so what i love that you're doing is you're going in your mind with a game to say what what really would happen in the practical and could i handle that could i face that and is it worth it and then they somebody can consciously make that choice rather than unconsciously hold themselves back yeah that to me is like

you know my software background left brain first principles thinking that's all it is it's just like let's break it down to its actual parts and then just do that inquiry of like, would this, like, could you live with that?

Like, what, what if,

you know, I got canceled.

Me and my wife have already talked about it just because like, I think I get 120 million views a month.

So my audience has grown like wild.

And when we started, she was concerned.

She's like, well, what if you.

You know, something surfaces and it puts you in the wrong light.

And then all of a sudden I'm married to you and then blah, blah, blah.

I was like, that's a great question.

How about worst case scenario, I go and I delete all my social media accounts and you and I get on the plane and we go live on a beach and we stay there until you feel things have settled down.

She goes, that sounds like fun.

Let's do that anyway.

Okay, man.

Exactly.

I'm like, all my worst case scenarios are my vacations.

Yeah.

I know my plan B was more financial, was like Bali, was always Bali.

But I love that it's like, oh, I've thought it through.

And and that you're, that you're, you're meeting life on its terms.

I do find that when people defend against something, even talking about canceled, like when people defend against something, it gets bigger versus just being open.

Yeah, when they say what you resist persists or something like that, right?

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And so, and also just a side note, just because my therapeutic mind from our conversation just a minute ago.

If anybody would have seen me when I was working as a therapist that was underage, typically you, you invite the parents in.

So usually the child is a reflection of the family system, also larger systems.

So it's not just the one scapegoat child, it's also a systemic conversation.

So, you know, anyway, just for people listening that think like my child is a, is, is really the problem, it's bigger than that.

And I love that literally the things that were the most challenging in your life have helped you.

They are my gifts.

You know,

man, I got really emotional.

I don't know where that came from, but

I know where it comes from because I was watching a TikTok and I'm going to pull it up because I want to say it properly.

And it was Stephen Colbert.

And I think it was Anderson Cooper was interviewing him.

And he said, did you really say this?

And he reads the quote that he said.

And what he said, I literally, it just, it struck me.

He says, did you really say that the worst things that have ever happened to you are gifts?

and he said i did say that he said and this is it word for word

i've learned to love the things that i most wish did not happen what punishments of gods are not gifts if a if it's a gift to exist with existence comes suffering

i look at it that way

I can't appreciate how much gratitude I have for my life if I don't know and have experienced the opposite.

Like it's, it's one of those things, it's a a truth.

It's a universal truth.

It's the yin and the yang.

It's the cold and the hot.

It's to the depth I've gone down to the heights I can rise.

And I've done, when you say did the work, I'm talking, I still do the work.

I don't pretend I have anything figured out.

I don't want anybody to think like, oh, this is the way it is.

No, I'm, I call it strong opinions.

No, yeah, strong opinions loosely held.

or often wrong, never in doubt, because I can convince people I know what I'm talking about.

But at the same token, if you gave me some evidence or data to support a different perspective that I felt made sense, I'd be like, yeah, that actually sounds better.

So

I just, I learned a long time ago that my mess could be the most powerful message that I have.

And it took me 15 years.

Most people don't know this, Alyssa, but I didn't share my story of what I went through as a teenager for 15 years because I was embarrassed.

I was, I had a lot of shame around it.

I didn't want to, you know, air dirty laundry and have my brothers and my sister and my parents have to deal with stuff that they were hoping that we could all forget.

But

I was still for years, ever since I got out of rehab, every year, twice a year, I'd go speak to the kids, the new kids that were coming through the program.

And after 15 years of doing that in secrecy,

I just felt like, I don't want you to think you know me if you don't know me.

And there's a part of me that I'm not ashamed of.

I mean, it's not easy for me to relive relive or talk about, but I'm proud of who I've become.

And if you know that part of me, I think who I am makes a lot more sense.

And

that's why I'm very specific in the language I use to describe it, because it was a privilege.

And to me, that shows the depth of work that you've done around it.

And so if there's somebody listening, they're going through a hard time.

and it doesn't feel like a privilege yet.

It just means that there's a little bit more tending to your heart.

And that's it.

And you can get there.

And I also just honor your courage to share it, not only because it takes the shame and the stigma off, but also because it's of service, because everybody has something that they're ashamed of or that they, that was challenging in their life.

And you have such a powerful story that

I think it serves so many people by your courage to share it.

So I appreciate you in that.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And, and, you know, speaking vulnerably, one of the things that has been most challenging for me as an entrepreneur has been team.

I think Google wrote a book about something about the company of Google and most of it was around team is what I've heard.

And I

I have really gotten to see that the patterns, I was the youngest and my family, I self-appointed myself as the one who would take care of everyone.

So I learned to override my needs to take care of my family and then how that has reflected in my business.

So I have forgotten my own needs in support of my business's success.

And that is, and it's life is so friendly in the way that it gives feedback so that I can course correct and learn again and again and again.

And there are times for growth in entrepreneurship.

And I just want to rem at least for me, it was really important to marry entrepreneurial growth with the inner work because it has made it so much easier and quicker and more graceful.

And it doesn't mean that it's ever done.

And I don't ever want it to be done because to me, it's like, these are the goals that I, that I love so much: growth and service, part of core values.

But for somebody listening to this who is feeling like inspired to take risks and but really feels overwhelmed with either drowning in bills or taking care of their family, and they keep putting their own needs off because when they have more time, then they can start the business or then they can prioritize themselves.

What would you say to them?

Well, it's counterintuitive because

the truth is, if you don't become better, then you won't be better for others.

And,

you know, I remember hearing somebody explain it best, especially in a relationship.

They said, instead of being 50-50 and meeting in the middle, how about I go work on being 100% better for me and you go work to be 100% better for you, and then we'll be 100% better for each other.

And I feel like the risk is you think it's selfish to put your own dreams, goals, priorities first.

And in hindsight, and unfortunately, sometimes it is in hindsight, unless you're willing to listen to people who've been there before, you'll discover that the best thing you could have ever done for the people you love the most is to actually put yourself first.

Like I know everybody is happier in the family, in our family, in my house, when my wife gets to go to CrossFit, when she gets to spend time with her friends, when she gets to travel, when she gets gets to express her feminine and do all the stuff that I know she will put on the back burner and sacrifice if we as a family don't create the space and make her feel comfortable that she can go do that.

And we all win.

It's like when I go away for a ski trip in the winter, I'm better.

When I come back, I'm recharged.

I'm rejuvenated.

I'm more focused.

I've had time to think.

I've got a bigger vision.

I'm more fun to be around.

Like, I think the fallacy that people have, and I honestly, I think it's self-sabotaging belief,

is that, you know, I got to sacrifice now my own stuff for other people.

And the truth is, is one of the best things we can do for our kids, especially if that's your reason, is to go be the best version of you.

Like, I remember I was hiking the other day, and this guy, Jesse, was struggling.

And he was having a hard time.

He's 40 pounds overweight.

And he wanted to turn a situation around.

He says, it's really hard because I have kids.

And I said, dude, you're using your kids as the excuse.

You should use the kids as the excuse to do it.

Like,

kids don't hear what you say.

They watch what you do.

And I just think, like,

if you don't have the time, it's not that you don't, you just don't make it a priority.

Right.

So that's, that's the big thing.

And it's why I'm so passionate about the concept of buying back your time and just trying to find leverage because

if I look at like what is the process, right?

Because again, I study internal family systems, parts work, like you name it, I've studied it to try to understand my own psychology and to like understand my own values and why do I prioritize things like the recipe or the

rhythm that I'm executing every day and sometimes in an unhealthy way.

So I got to catch myself is the idea that

My time is fixed, right?

We don't, when I say buy back your time, it's not true.

You can't buy back your time.

You can't buy time, right?

you can create leverage and if my time is fixed and my my uh compensation or the way i create value in the world is directly proportionate to the ability to solve bigger problems which is a skill then i'm always trying to figure out if i want a bigger life i got to become more because i got to be able to deal with bigger problems and to become more i got to create the skill set to do that, which means I need the time to do it.

It means I have to find the places to trade.

And the beauty, and that's why I wrote that chapter, is that a lot of, for a lot of people, it doesn't cost anything.

It just, it might cost the social currency of putting your foot down.

It might cost the awkwardness of the conversation because you're going to stop accepting people to treat you a certain way or ask you to do stuff that is not your job.

Whatever it is, like it might require to reestablish some boundaries and that has cost.

But I think most people

create the prison that they live in.

I mean, they just, you know, for a lot of women, I find it interesting that they hire a cleaning lady and clean the house before the cleaning lady shows up.

That's interesting.

Or, you know, they have a babysitter and they, I mean, my wife used to do this.

I'm like, she would hire the babysitter.

She'd show up and they would talk for an hour.

And I'm like, the whole point is for us to leave when she shows up so that we have the hour together and you're paying to be her friend.

It was wild.

And, you know, those are a little thing.

And I'm sure I have my own little quirks, but

that's the big idea and the big misunderstanding for most people, I think.

And I know I suffer with this for a lot is that if I want more, the only way to get more is to become more, which requires time to do the work.

And I need to figure out either I renegotiate with people, I say no to people, or I take dollars and buy back that time by getting somebody else to support me in some of the work.

Yeah.

And this just keeps reaffirming and highlighting the power of doing the inner work because you can't just change it from the outside in.

It needs to be inside out first because you can shift the strategy.

But if you're still divided or that pattern is still running,

it's like a horror movie.

I had, I had a client, his wife was like, so not on board with having somebody in their home.

Like, and I get it.

That's like, that's a big deal.

Like a stranger in your home, it's not like a cleaning person that comes for two hours when you're not there once a month.

It's like, you know, we were, I was working with him because he had a big enough, you know, team and infrastructure and demand and desire to travel the world.

I was like, you need a house manager.

You need somebody that literally is the CEO of all the stuff that you're currently doing, your wife's currently doing.

Put it in a bucket and hire somebody and give them the accountability to run all that stuff.

And he's like, really?

And I'm like, yeah, dude, like.

You're allowed to hire people to do anything.

He goes, I said, I only do one of two things, spend time with people I love or do things that only I can uniquely do.

Other than that, I, I mean, not to sound pompous, but I haven't washed my car, put gas in my car, dealt with all these things because I'd rather trade my capital because it could be in a bank account or it could be in your fancy new car, your BMW, whatever it is, or you can buy back your time.

And his wife wouldn't be on board with it.

And I understood it because it's a real thing, you know?

And then I told him to use this angle.

I said, ask her if she cares about creating employment in the city because I knew she did a lot of charitable work.

And obviously her answer was was yes and she goes well then why are we being so selfish by not having people support us and create an employment with

and then he's and and he got her to like finally I think it was uh

five hours a week or something come twice cleanly come twice this was three years ago today if you ask his wife her name is Margaret there's no way in the world I think he would have to go before she went Margaret has become critical to the family uh started as a cleaning person now takes care of the whole household, now is part of their family's lives, travels with them, supports all aspects of coordination.

And I'm like just so pumped because I think that is the backside of doing the work.

And again, it was an emotional response.

You know, it's like when I teach people to delegate your email and your calendar, it's not the mechanics, although some people need the strategy and I give them that, but it's the feeling of the fear, right?

And I get it.

All the stuff I teach, I went through it, learned it, did it.

Wow, that works a lot better.

And now I teach it.

The pressure, when you talk about somatic, what if somebody accidentally replies and embarrasses me to a customer, to a potential investor, to a friend?

Or what if my dad messages me something that they shouldn't have seen or something?

Like, it's all emotional fear.

And it has nothing to do with the mechanics.

That's right.

And yes, it's like, I always say that it's 80% inner and like just 20% outer.

And so one of my methodology, I have a methodology where it's five levels of change, but literally one fifth is the inner work is strategy.

Some people do need that, but most of it's inside.

And I noticed for me, because even in reading your book, I was like, okay, let myself receive more from team, but I couldn't do that until I understood that I had paired guilt with receiving.

That's interesting.

Once I saw that, then I got to really stretch and feel in my body the sensation of guilt so that I could breathe into and feel comfortable or more comfortable with it.

So it didn't just have me work harder to prove that I was, I earned it or, you know, I deserved it, things like that.

So some of the deeper psychology, just to give people a reference point, a lot of common inner blocks are people pleasing, self-doubt, perfectionism, comparison, fear, failure.

But at the heart of it is usually around worth.

And so if people can have a framework, I just want to share, like just slow it down, especially with the inner work, if you want to go faster, slow down, to see what is the fear that's holding you back.

Because once you get that, then the practical things are a lot easier to implement.

That's interesting.

Is there other attachments that you've seen?

Like you mentioned a few, like the receiving with guilt.

For me, it was.

And everybody's going to be wired a little bit different, but I do think that that's a common one.

Another, so my receiving and I felt guilt.

So I wasn't letting myself receive because I didn't want to feel guilt.

But once I saw it, then I could let myself feel the guilt consciously.

And then I was able to receive more easily.

Yeah, I deal with the people that judge people that have wealth and then realize their desire desire for more wealth is always going to be met with sabotage because they don't want to be judged.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's like, but it's subconscious.

Like they don't even know to say it, but they do because they make comments about people that are rich.

And then I'm like, well, yeah, if you think that, guess what?

You'll never be it, which is funny because you want to.

That's right.

And there's on your goals list, but then you're judging yourself towards the actions.

And sometimes people will

have blame be a way to avoid feeling what they are underneath the blame.

It's like a surrogate feeling.

So it's like, I don't really want to feel abandon or fear of failure.

So I'm going to blame.

And that's more of a surface level.

Or if people don't want to be seen because they think it's egoic and they judge that, then they're going to really crave being seen in the world.

Yeah.

They're going to be, they're really craving being seen in the world, but then they feel guilty and then they stuff it down.

It comes out in these sideways ways.

So it's like, really, if somebody sees you and then compliments you, learn how to really receive that because we want healthy, integrated egos.

Otherwise, if you don't let yourself be seen or you don't see that part of yourself, you're going to be incredibly hungry for it.

And then it comes out unconsciously.

So good.

Yeah.

So there's so, and there's so much.

And I just want to emphasize the inner work married with the outer work.

And the outer work is just as important for me.

Also, I just felt like you have such an engineer systems mindset that helps put things together.

My brain is not oriented that way.

And so that was a big part of getting, reading your book.

I was like, oh, wow.

And you've got all these really beautiful practical things that I want to highlight for people and encourage them to read the book.

But one of the practical things is your rule, the 108010.

Can you talk to us about that and how to use it?

Yeah, I mean, I used it today probably six times because

The challenge for a lot of artists and creatives out there is when they hear this concept of like working through people and delegating more, but really like buying back your time, they worry that

what they do is the magic sauce, right?

And the fingerprint and they're unique.

And what I saw as a pattern among some of the most creative people in the world from the Obras to Andy Warhol to Steve Jobs to,

you know, a lot of the software Silicon Valley folks is

they spend most of their time in the two ends of like, if there's 100% worth of effort, they spend most of their time in the 10% up front and the 10% at the end.

The first 10% is the ideation.

And that's kind of where I spend most of my time is working with different software teams and ideating kind of like the desired outcome or the next, you know, sprint or roadmap or whatever we're building.

Right.

And I think most entrepreneurs would probably agree, like, that's my favorite part.

Then the other 80% is the execution.

So first step is ideation.

Then it's 80% execution.

And that's where you allow your team to go and build and create.

So if you think of Steve Jobs, he comes into the design studio with Johnny Ives and they ideate around the future of the Mac and the future of the iPhone and this thing called the iPad and they just talk about it.

And then Johnny and his team goes out and they prototype stuff and they go find new hard drives and new technologies and touch glass and all these things that is the execution part.

Now the last 10% is the integration.

That's where the artist can come back and add their unique touch, right?

And for Steve Jobs, that was him with Johnny talking about how they're going to display it to the world and him doing the presentation for the events.

That was his happy place.

And that's where I spend my time as two ends of the spectrum so that I can have people support me, but still feel connected to the work that I enjoy doing.

And in many ways, just get away from the stuff that I don't enjoy doing.

And in the same breath, understand that 80% done by somebody else is 100% freaking awesome.

Because that is also a big belief that people are like, why didn't it get done the way I want it done?

It's like, They're not you.

They don't have the context.

They don't have the skill set.

They don't have the vision.

How about we be super grateful that they showed up and helped you build your goals today like i think most business people are just so self-centered and they should just be a lot more gracious and have empathy for the team because like all the stuff i've ever built

there was other people involved and i i wake up going i'm so grateful that they decided to come to work today to help me build this thing because if they didn't I'd have to do it all myself.

And that feels hard.

For some reason, you saying that reminds me of like, what were our models of power growing up?

because i think a lot of the times with authority figures that can be projected onto our power dynamic so i learned a lot about power over or power under and that's another way that we want to heal so that we don't unconsciously project onto our boss or project onto our team some of these power dynamics so we do come into a place of not only harmony but gratitude and working cohesively as a team so another just thread that i'm i'm pulling

and i so i've been using the 1080 10 and that's been helpful my team's like, okay, help me define what the top 10 is.

Cause, and I think of that like as a visionary, right?

And then you've got your implementer.

So, but there's one that I also love that I've been implementing is the 131.

That's the one that'll change your whole life.

Tell us all about it.

You know, if you build a big enough team, you realize that decisions start to slow down, right?

When it's five people, it feels good, cohesive.

We're all on the same page.

We all can kind of finish our thoughts and our sentences.

And it's just, it's really fun.

You get to 25, 30 people,

it gets slow, it gets firefighting, it gets scary, right?

Because it's like a lot of unknowns.

Like, I wonder what that team's doing over there.

And what I've discovered is the best way to work against that is to make sure that we push decisions down to the people that have the most context to solve the problem.

Okay.

Because even me, if somebody that's like dealing with a department, they come to me, I don't have the context.

I don't have the history.

I don't have the dynamics of the people.

So, my thoughts are very black and white, and it loses the essence of what they might be dealing with.

So, the 131 helps with that.

And because the other thing is,

you teach people how to lead.

So, if you teach people when they have a problem to come to you all the time, then they'll always come to you all the time.

And if you're not available, the problem stays the problem until you get back, which means that nothing gets done if you're not around, which means when they hire and lead their team, they do the same thing.

And then all of a sudden, you've got a bunch of bottlenecks kicking around because, you know, that's why they call them bottlenecks because they're at the top.

So I remember one day, my HR director, Adam, he just joined the team and we were doing some planning.

And that quarter, we had to hire like 12 new people in 90 days.

And he'd never done that before.

So after the meeting, he comes to me and he's stressed out.

And he goes, hey, Dan, I need your help.

And I said, what's that?

He goes.

I don't know how we're going to do this.

I said, do what?

He goes, hire 12 people in the next 90 days.

I mean, it takes me two, three weeks to write the job description.

And then I put it out there and I got to create pipeline and interview and test project, all the stuff.

And I go, oh,

I said, okay.

He goes, well, what should I do?

And I was like, well, Adam,

if I tell you what to do, I feel like I'm doing your job.

And I'm pretty sure I hired you because you're the HR director to do that work.

And he's like, well, no, no, I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to be the one to do it, but I don't know what to do.

And I said, well, do you have a 131?

And it was funny because he had been trained on it, but he was like, this is the first time he interacted with me on it.

and he goes do i really have to do that and i was like yep

so i said how about we just meet tomorrow same day you think you'll have time between now and then to kind of figure it out and he said i should next morning 10 a.m he texted me i'm good so what is the one three one the one through one is a simple philosophy that one you have the person clearly state the problem because you know just like humans sometimes you're like What are we talking about right now?

I thought we were talking about this.

And then you went to here and then we're there.

So right off the bat, you ask them, what's your one problem you're trying to solve?

that will take care of 50 of the challenges i'm hearing that right now and i'm like i'm going to apply that to my three o'clock meeting because i don't know we're all even on the same page what problem are we trying to solve great let's figure out what's the number what's it at today where should it have been then we go to step two which is the three viable options viable options as any leader what it does is it lets us know that they evaluated the different options because

It's not that you don't care if people make decisions.

You're just worried they didn't think about other stuff that might have been a better option.

So, the three viable options, you know, you can't say option three is do nothing.

That's not a viable option.

Viable options is, well, we could change this thing, we could hire this person, we can do this.

Okay.

And then the third is one recommendation.

So, the one recommendation is

out of those three, I recommend number three, or I recommend number two, or I recognize number one.

My assistant did it with me today.

She said, Hey, I've got a challenge.

Here are my three options.

I recommend two.

98% of the time, I go, sounds good.

Now, here's the beauty of this.

Over time, people stop coming to you because they naturally will do the 131 and it unblocks them from having to come to you.

And then they do it with their direct reports, and then their direct reports start doing the same thing.

And what happens is you have an organization that pushes the decision-making to the people that can actually do it.

Now, we have rules in our business, like the 50 to fix it, which is if it's less than $50 to solve a problem, you solve the problem, you spend the money, you expense it, I'll always approve it.

You just got to tell your boss.

And at the individual contributor level, the bottom, it's 50, and then it's 500 for leaders.

It's 5,000 for C level or for directors and then 50,000 for C level.

And then that way, nobody ever feels like they're constrained to make and move and solve problems.

And I just think the 131 is one of the most simple and impactful frameworks that we can have our teams operate under.

And it creates a self-managing team so that you free up your time.

And then it's also offering them clarity, which gives safety.

And then they feel more autonomous.

They're not micromanaged, which also creates safety.

And then they feel seen and acknowledged with the work.

It's brilliant.

I'm going to keep implementing it with my team.

I think I just need to get more into the habit of it.

Cause, yeah, but I love it.

And a practical thing that I see for entrepreneurs that holds them back on a block is that they try to do way too many things at once.

And I think a lot of entrepreneurs love freedom.

They get distracted by all the shiny objects.

And so focus and follow through is really helpful before you pass it off to your team to implement, like really stay with it to get results.

And something that you say that I'm just going to quote you on because I know we're getting close to our time, but I love this quote that you talk about moving out of scarcity into a more expansive perspective where you talk about your energy, your frequency is what you frequently see.

It's actually on the wall, just around the corner.

It's that important to me.

Tell me more.

I just find I love how catchy it is, but it's so true.

It's so true.

When I mentor these kids, I always just keep it as simple as like, there's Mr.

Happy Face and Mr.

Grumpy Face.

And, you know, who do you want to help if you got extra time?

It's like, well, happy face.

Okay.

Well, that's their frequency.

The interesting part is the reason why they're happy is because of the way they look at the world.

Both people could be experiencing the exact same situation.

One is happy, the other one's grumpy.

And that to me is, you know, why I'm not surprised when like beautiful, you know, serendipitous moments where I'm trying to connect with a person, they just magically show up in my life.

Like, the frequency is what you frequently see.

So, you know, even I remember a long time ago, I was working with like a spiritual coach, and she was saying, In your relationship, in your marriage with my wife, Renee, like, no matter what she does, if you just show up with pure love, like it was so wild, because I'm like, okay, I'm going to try it.

So the next day, I'm sitting there, and she's probably annoyed at me for not picking up after myself, something like that.

And I literally, in my mind, look at her as if like we just started dating.

Like, just

pure love, pure, pure passion, infatuation.

infatuation.

It was like magic.

12 minutes later, she came over, laid next to me, gave me a big kiss and a hug.

And I'm just like,

how did that happen?

And I really truly believe that it's just the way the world works.

I mean, anybody that has felt the presence of another person in a room, the energy, we all know we're connected.

So it's like, actually

use that to try to shape your world is possible.

Life is a mirror.

So you smile in the mirror and life will smile right back.

it's that exactly it's like from the beginning of the conversation to here it all starts inside uh just in closing i would love to hear dan if there was one one thing that somebody could take away from your work or from this episode that would really change the way that they lead or live their life what would you want to say so Most people struggle with letting go.

It's kind of the essence of buying back your time.

It's like, I know mechanically I should do it, but some people just don't understand what it looks like.

So if anybody is like, hey, I need to work with my team better, or I need to hire an assistant or I have a virtual assistant, but I just don't feel like I'm using them right, find me on Instagram and just follow me.

Cause then I can message you.

Cause if you don't follow me, I can't message you.

And just message me EA Playbook, executive assistant playbook.

And I will send them a Google Doc.

I just need to see it.

If you just show it to me, then I'm like, oh, is that what it is?

It's why like in Buy Back Your Time, I have a resource document.

I have a big PDF and a bunch of templates and structures and best practices.

But I feel like the executive assistant one will give people a glimpse.

Like, even the way I do my North Star principles, you can start to think about to your point, like what out of those items, like, ooh, that's scary.

Like, here's my 10 out of 10.

Okay.

And this is wild.

10 out of 10 letting go is having somebody else pack for you for a trip.

And you just grab the bag and go to the airport.

I know.

That's how I live.

That's my life.

Cool.

It's kind of wild.

Yeah.

My wife's not there yet.

Yeah.

It's possible.

And it's just, you think about all the things that would have to be true for you to, what you need to believe and the processes in place and all that stuff.

But man, when you can start living life without the need to control so much, that's freedom.

That's why it's not about money.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so beautiful.

Thank you, Dan, for who you are and how you move through the world and just your generosity.

So I know people, I want to highly encourage buy back your time.

I loved the book.

Also follow you on Instagram.

I also do, and I love your content.

Where else?

What else?

What can they do to say connection?

My YouTube, I put out a lot of really like, I mean, I have a team.

We spend a million bucks a year just producing content.

So my YouTube, I think I'm really proud of.

Got about 1.3 million followers there and all platforms.

I take it pretty seriously because I understand the opportunity to support other people and teach them the things I've learned.

But I would encourage everybody listening to do work with you.

Yeah, you know what you're talking about.

I do a lot of interviews and meet a lot of people, but I could tell just the depth and breadth of what you're talking about.

And if anybody's listening and has been on the sidelines and they're in your world and they haven't made the commitment and the decision, this is your sign.

Thank you, Dan.

So grateful for you and just how you are in the world.

What a gift.

Cheers.

Cheers.

Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself.

It truly does make a difference.

And if you're finding value in this podcast, a cost-free way to support us is by following us.

It does help us grow and we are so grateful.

Leave a review on Apple or Spotify, submit a screenshot of that, and upload it to alistenabrigate.com forward slash podcast.

As a thank you gift, we will be sending you one of the most powerful tools that you can use on any area of your life to help you tap into your full potential so that you don't let fear hold you back from really stepping into your dreams.

I have so much more magic I want to share with you, and I cannot wait to do that soon.

But for now, I just want to say thank you so much for being an example of what it's like to live with an open heart and mind in the world.