Self-Trust Is the New Success: How to Actually Feel Aligned | EP 96

So many more women are burnt out than ever before.

We're taking on so much.

I think social media doesn't help, the internet doesn't help.

And then getting to a point where my body was now reacting and responding to me because I had been ignoring it, literally could not get up.

I was so tired.

And I just became really sick from my burnout.

So many of us feel unfulfilled and disconnected because we're all just kind of like living on the surface at work.

I'm so ashamed, seeking from that place of not enoughness, not completeness.

I was attracting people who didn't really treat me well.

Probably about five years into it.

I was like, I think I'm ready to be with me.

I'm ready to spend time with myself.

I don't want a seven out of 10 life.

I don't want a good life.

I want like an epic life.

I want a deeply aligned life and I will do whatever it takes, how uncomfortable I will be to make that happen.

What if the job you're chasing, the relationship you're clinging to, or the vision of success that you're striving for is actually pulling you away from your truth?

In this episode, we dive deep into purpose, burnout, money, love, and the unconscious patterns that shape our lives.

From navigating career pivots, setting boundaries with family, and cultivating self-trust, this conversation is full of insights that will speak straight to your heart.

I'm joined by Krista Williams and Lindsay Simchik, hosts of the HIIT podcast and authors of the new book Almost 30.

They're known for their real, raw, and deeply empowering conversations, and they're here to share what it means to question everything and build the life that's truly yours.

I'm so happy to have you guys here.

What a treat.

I'm so excited.

Oh my gosh.

Thank you.

I'm so grateful.

I was just telling Lindsay, it's just so nice to be in your home.

You've just opened your home to me over the years and it's been so special to be in a space with such intention.

And I just feel so lucky to get to speak to your audience again.

I know how amazing and smart and intentional they are.

So I just feel really lucky to be here.

Yeah, such a gift to have both of you and to share about the magic you're doing right now and sharing in the world.

And I know that so much of my audience and I think the general public thinks about purpose.

And I know how important that is.

90% of Americans would trade less money for having more purpose and meaning.

So literally they would exchange money for meaning, which is a big sign.

I think probably in younger generations, even more so.

But I know, Krista, can feel really forced when it's out of alignment.

And I'm wondering, what are some signs that somebody is is listening to what somebody else's version of success and purpose is and it's not true to them?

Well, I first want to get curious about that number because if that's the truth, then what are we doing?

What is everyone, you know what I mean?

I'm always so, I'm like, there's so much discrepancy that we often have as humans where we're like, I want more purpose, I want more meaning.

But it's actually simple to find purpose and meaning, finding it in the moment, you know, slowing down enough to be curious about your thoughts and who you are and how you're operating in life.

And I think what I notice in that statistic, and I'll answer the question, is just that we make purpose to be something that's so big and grandiose and outside of ourselves.

And purpose is actually very simple.

It can happen here and now.

It can happen in this moment.

It can happen in connection.

It can happen in nature.

And I think when I came into my journey of wanting to find purpose, I was probably similar.

I was in the corporate world working in these unaligned corporate jobs.

And I was really, really desperate for purpose, but I didn't know what that meant.

And I felt like it had to be something really big.

It had to be like me on stage at Madison Square Garden speaking to people, or it had to mean I was famous or I had a lot of followers or I was making a lot of money.

And there was an intangibility of that that really drove me crazy.

And when I think we can really just make purpose more simple, that purpose can happen in connection and motherhood and being a sister, a father, and just really simple moments.

It can be something that makes it less stressful and less anxiety inducing.

And purpose doesn't have to be your career.

It doesn't have to be your job.

I believe that you're born on purpose for purpose and we live in God's purpose all the time.

I'm someone that's deeply spiritual and, you know, I say God.

So someone else might say universe or spirit or source, but for me, God feels really, really nice.

And I know that God doesn't do anything not by design.

So when I know that I am.

on purpose, I am a purpose and I am living in purpose, it can make me feel so much better.

And for me, when I think about why people are unaligned or not living in purpose, it makes so much sense if we look at the way the world is.

There's so many structures and systems in place that bring us away from ourselves.

If we go up and we're a normal person that wakes up and opens up their phone to get on social media, we're already off purpose in a lot of ways because we're living in someone else's life or reality or we're following the news or things like that.

So when we kind of strip away the things that bring us outside of ourselves, we can get closer to ourselves, which really is the purpose, I think, for a lot of us is getting quiet enough to listen to the voice that can tell us where to go, what to do, or how to live.

That's beautifully said.

And I think that gives less pressure on

only living purposes when I'm at work versus if I don't work or if I'm raising kids.

It's like, what are the qualities that bring you aliveness that feel really aligned?

And how do I express those in all areas of life?

And I was thinking about this recently because, you know, I've wanted to be living a bigger purpose.

I want to do even more, but I have to watch that voice because it's always the not enough voice.

And I was talking to God and I'm like, God, I want you to use me.

Like, I want you to use me for your will.

And God's like, if I'm using you for my will, it doesn't mean that you're making millions of dollars.

Like it doesn't mean that you're famous.

It doesn't mean that, you know, you look a certain way or things happen.

Like your, me using you for my will could be you smiling at someone that hasn't had a smile in a week or hugging someone that needs it or being kind to someone.

Like it's actually the very simple things in life.

And I think we know this from spiritual traditions that it's also very simple.

But when I could kind of come back to that simplicity of like this moment, this here and now, what can I do?

It becomes so much easier.

What was your journey with purpose?

Because you are someone that's so on purpose, but did you always feel like you wanted to find it?

What was your path?

I think I knew at a young age what I wanted to do,

but I don't define purpose as what I do.

I define purpose around living in alignment with my values.

So my top five values are connection, growth, truth, love, and service.

And if I can express those values in the way that I live, I feel very aligned and very on purpose.

And I love that, you know, you're talking like letting go of some of the pressure we can put on these external egoic goals.

Ego not being bad, just young and misunderstood, not as developed.

And so whether it's like one person that hears something you have to say or it's one million, you, for me, when I feel totally in alignment, it doesn't matter because I'm so lit up in alignment with my values and how I want to be living.

I think we're so disconnected from that feeling.

You know, I think we're so connected to the feeling of, well, how much money do I make from this?

And how much success do I glean from this?

And how many likes do I get?

And who knows about it?

And it's such a numbers game, I think, in the world that we live in.

But I love what you said.

It's just the purpose is you, you know, and life is long.

You know you're going to have many iterations of how your purpose is manifested and how it's embodied but if you i felt most on purpose when i am truly connected to who i am in every moment you know and i think that's kind of like the measure like what you're saying is really aligning to those values that makes perfect sense to me it's like

having that ability to be so present and so aware of how we're feeling in a moment, how it feels in our body, how it feels in our heart, and how it feels connected to whether it's God or something greater

is the point.

I think we just overcomplicate things.

You know, I think we so badly want to like earn

something around purpose.

And it's like, I'm kind of like grappling with that with motherhood, where I'm like, whoa, this is a totally different game.

You know, this is not going to get me,

you know, the likes and the validation that I used to get.

You know, it's coming in a totally different way.

And I kind of have to like work on that, like on metabolizing that, you know, and really accepting that.

And it's beautiful, but it's like, it's different.

It's just different.

Yeah.

I think there's two things I think about with purpose too, just for the audience, because at least for me, my, the desire to find my purpose made me so anxious and so depressed.

It was something that kept me up at night.

It was something that was so stressful for me.

And I think a lot of people can relate.

I mean, based on that statistic, a lot of people want to feel like they're here for meaning.

And part of that was a true soul desire and calling.

You know, my soul soul came here for reason and really came here to do something with my life, however that manifests.

And then there's also what I realized was my inner child was really running the show.

And I think a lot of times people can feel like they're searching for purpose, but it's really like their inner children that want to be seen, heard, or validated.

And for me, it was my little girl that saw success as the way she was loved, success as the way she got attention or validation.

And as I've gotten older, I've realized that.

I'm like, okay, how can I be present to the fact that in my life growing up my mom and parents really prioritized success really prioritized external validation and so is my desire for purpose my little girl that's trying to get that and find it through whatever i do or is it the part of me and my soul that really knows that there's so much richness in life and there's so much beauty and there's so much here to create that like i can do something big and i can be limitless um so i think when people think about purpose and their path really being mindful about like what's the real driver for your purpose.

Is it service external?

Is it service based on external?

You think you're going to get validation likes?

Or is it like your true soul calling?

And I think a last thing that I've realized too is I actually think that our purpose is more in service to us than it is to others.

And I think the greatest service to ourselves is the greatest service to others.

And one of my favorite texts is The Law of One.

It's a really beautiful channel text, and it talks about being in service to others and service to self.

And it seems weird to think about serving yourself first, but when we truly serve ourselves in our soul, we are in the greatest service to others.

So beautiful.

And I think also people think about where, what can I get from my career?

How can my career give me my purpose?

And that's another kind of cul-de-sac people get stuck in versus what for me, like what are these values and how do I express them in my job?

Not to say I'm not going to be an accountant.

Like that's definitely not aligned.

There's still some guardrails, but for people that, and I love what you were bringing up, both of you, especially around the, where is this coming from, just to be compassionate as we do some of this personal growth work, because we can see patterns and be like, there's my ego again, and like judge ourselves, but when we judge it, we're further stuck with it.

And so just to be really compassionate as we're seeing it.

And I always think of like, I remember when my parents would have friends over and I just bring all of my outfits out.

I'd be like, I have a captive audience and now I get to have all of my outfits.

So it's almost like that little one that it's like, look what I can do.

You know, just the sweetness of just seeing that little one.

And you're just like, okay, I can see that inside of me with compassion, with love.

It's not who I am.

It's just a part of me.

It's just conditioning, but it's not me.

And so for people, though, so the yes, yes, it's about, you know, being conscious with this.

Yes, it's about being compassionate.

But also there are certain jobs that are fulfilling and that are within the wheelhouse.

And for me, I less looked outside to what the options were because that would have overwhelmed me.

And I really just deeply deeply listened when you were saying like, don't go on the social media, like really listen deeply.

And so for people that are in a soul-sucking career or they are feeling really lost, what advice do you guys have for them?

Yeah, a few things.

I think first, I'd be curious how much joy they're actively and consciously cultivating outside of their job, you know?

I think

it's a really special thing when you can feel on purpose in your job.

I don't know if everyone, I know that not everyone has that, but I do think it's a special thing and it's possible.

But I think first we can see what we're cultivating outside of our job.

You know, how are we creating moments of just total joy and alignment and just seeing kind of like the beauty in what you've cultivated outside of work.

I think work becomes such an identity and it's hard for us to kind of pull away and see value in our families or the home that we're cultivating or maybe our hobbies, or like

a craft that we're honing.

I often, you know, will talk to people and I'm like, what are you doing for the sake of doing it without seeking the money or the validation or showing people online?

I had to ask myself that.

What are you creating in the, in private?

that you're not showing anyone that's bringing you a lot of joy you know i think that's something that can give you a lot of information that could tell you maybe you know an aspect of life you're missing that you can bring more of or maybe it's a skill that you could bring into your work or a skill that you can hone that could turn into something that could bring more abundance and money later on um and then just looking at the quality of your relationships you know we're we're social beings we're human beings are meant to be in relationship and connection and so oftentimes I find that if we feel miserable in our jobs,

we're probably,

you know, neglecting our relationships, our intimate relationships, and then also like our professional ones.

Like, what are the quality of those relationships?

You know, do you trust the people that you work with?

Are you connecting with them beyond just work?

You know, I think so many of us feel unfulfilled and disconnected because we're all just kind of like living on the surface at work.

We're talking about the numbers and the goals and this.

And it's like, hey, Joe, how's your family doing?

You know, I know you were kind of going through it the other week.

I just want to check in.

And it just like kind of brings us into more of like a heart space in the spaces that we're in the most you know I feel like we all just feel like we need to be like buttoned up and just kind of going through the motions Imagine having a fulfilling career doing what you love, working from anywhere in the world, setting your own hours while making good money and a big impact.

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I love that you say this because I think as we bring those values and cultivate what's important to us at whatever current job, we're going to find more happiness.

And maybe that was the only thing.

Or then if not, then at least that you had more alignment in the job that you're in before you move on to the next one.

You don't take the same patterns to the next job.

100%.

Wherever you, that's what I thought.

You know, wherever you go, there you are.

Like one of the cliche quotes.

But I remember that really hitting me in the corporate world where I was like, okay, wherever I go, there I am because I've ultimately chosen this reality.

But I think there's three things that can be helpful for people that, you know, I've kind of tried and tested in my life.

And the first is looking for the soul nods.

You know, there was a bunch of soul nods I had in my life that really pointed me into the direction of what I do now.

An example of one of those was in the corporate world.

I remember being in a lot of meetings with people, whether it was five people or 10 people or 15 people.

And whenever I would speak, everyone would listen.

And I just remember those moments where I was like, I'm not, I'm younger.

I'm not like high up.

Like, it was very interesting to me.

And I just remember my soul being like clocking it and being like, everyone's listening to you speak right now.

Like, there's, there was a moment of something happening where my soul was like, you should pay attention to this.

And then there's also moments where I'd be in meetings and I wouldn't be talking about work stuff at all.

I'd be talking about relationships in life.

And I was like, there was a soul nod of like, I noticed a different texture of people come out rather than their business selves.

I also think really looking at as a second thing, what your child did, you know, your inner child, you as the younger version, what did she like?

What did she do?

You were performing.

You were putting on outfits.

You were like trying on new things.

I was like stand up comedy hour, like to my family, like I was just always like, which by the way, I highly want to recommend.

If you ever get a chance to see Krista stand up, it's hilarious.

I did it for my, I did it on my birthday with my friends, which is such a gift.

What a gift.

It was the best.

But it was stand-up comedy hour, or it was me interviewing people.

I was always just curious and interested, like in people and their lives.

And that was just a natural part of me.

So when we have those natural part of us, whether it's cultivated through our experiences of being a child or it's naturally in us, it's going to be something that's easy for us to come back to that we can have joy from.

And then I think as a third thing, what can be helpful for people is having the people in your life reflect back to you what you're naturally good at.

I'm hopeful that you have someone in your life, whether it's family or friends or community that can be supportive in that.

But when I ask my friends or when I ask, you know, my sister or people that love me, like, what am I naturally good at?

I don't want it to dictate what you do for your life and everything that you choose to do, but it can be so helpful for me to see the truth, to see when my vision is blurry.

I could ask any friend and be like, hey, what am I good at?

And they would say three things that just help me kind of knock back on the path of like, yes, I now can see clearly because maybe my inner critic is really loud.

Maybe my voice of fear is really loud.

And it can just help bring me back on the path of what I'm meant to do.

So I think those things can be really helpful for people and just kind of getting them started.

But what I really love about what you said is like, how can you firstly make your situation now better and focus on that instead of trying to blow everything up and go to the next step of being on purpose?

Because as a last thing, what I'll say is that it hasn't been like one day I was off purpose and the next day I was on.

It was a continued moving towards what is more closely aligned for my soul.

And I feel like I'm there, but it was more my mind that changed than my external reality.

Yeah, good point.

And I think people miss that and really hyper focus on what they're doing.

And I think that's so helpful and valuable around purpose.

So I'm glad that you guys can plug some things to be a guide.

I also know that money is a big challenge with people.

And I think hearing people's honest stories about struggles around money can also be very healing.

I'm wondering, Lindsay, are you open to sharing a challenging moment with money?

And what helped you turn that around?

I wrote about this in the book and it was like kind of hard to write about because I was like, dang, girl.

That's the conversation.

Yeah.

It was just

such an uncomfortable period of my life.

And I feel like I struggled with it for a long time, you know, like from

the time that, you know, my parents gave me a credit card in college that was connected to their credit card, just for emergencies is what they said.

I absolutely did not just use it for emergencies and didn't understand the concept of a credit card.

And I held a lot of, I think a lot of people can relate to this, you know, my parents didn't teach me a lot about money when I was younger because I think they had their own insecurities and fears around looking at their money and managing their money and

learning about it.

And so I had a lot of resentment.

towards my parents where I'm like, why didn't you teach me this?

Now I'm struggling.

Like now I don't get it.

I can't get, you know, get this under control.

And as we all, you know, hopefully learn at some point, you know, we can't blame our parents forever.

You know, it's, it's really so much more empowering and liberating to take responsibility finally.

And so I just remember,

you know, I remember a moment in my mid-20s.

I was working three bartending jobs.

I was, you know, working till two or four in the morning every single night.

you know, trying to get up for auditions during the day.

And while I was making a lot of cash, it it just felt like it was falling out of my hands.

And I was paying for rents and bills and just struggling to do so every single month.

I was also like going out on the weekends, you know, getting an outfit for every time I went out.

Like, I wasn't managing my money correctly.

And I just remember one day, you know, after avoiding it for weeks, like finally being like, okay, I have to log on to my online banking girl.

Like, we need to see what's happening.

And I just remember my checking and my savings were in the red.

Both of them were in the red.

And rent was due in two days.

I was like, dang, like, how did we get here?

You know,

I was just so avoidant.

You know, I would not look at it.

And so,

you know, I

think for me, the, the,

everything changed when I got really honest with myself.

You know, I didn't like, I wasn't in the green the next day because I was honest with myself, but I just had to get real about like, okay, yeah, you didn't learn any of this growing up.

You didn't have necessarily a model for that or a class that you took in college to teach you this, but you have the opportunity now to do that.

And so taking it into my own hands was very powerful.

And just getting honest about like why I was avoiding looking at this, why looking at, you know, a negative number in my bank account was making me feel like a piece of shit, to be honest, like just so less than, just not worthy of anything.

And why it would affect my entire mood, just how everything, it would bring me so, so low.

And just getting to the root of that and understanding, you know, that's what I saw growing up, you know, money set the tone and temperature in my home a lot of the times.

And that was like a big point of contention.

And so just wanting to define that for myself moving forward and just get in right relationship with money and respect money and understand that money is energy.

Krista recommended Happy Pocket Full of Money to me at one point, and it's become just such a beautiful book that I return to often where, you know,

understanding the energetics of money has helped me to take this like charge around it that I had like kind of put as a kid and into my early adulthood about what money means and what it means about me if I don't have it or do have it.

And really just like injecting a lot more love into it and flow and, you know, reciprocity and respect and and honoring um

and now I have a really beautiful relationship with money and I am very attuned to the patterns when I am on purpose and just feeling aligned how it flows and how I'm when I'm stressed and fearful there's there's a bit of a stop in the flow so I just am so thankful for where I am now but it didn't come without a lot of just hard moments of like being very very honest with myself in the book there's a lot of tactical tips around just

you know how we can start to treat our money more respectfully you know and it's everything from uh you know organizing your savings and checkings account into ways that really make sense for you and your brain and your life and your goals

to

you know, getting honest about your debt, you know, and taking it step by step and understanding what to pay off first and like what the next step will be.

And so sometimes it's the, and in the book, we just say it's like the unsexy ways we're going to approach money right now.

In the long run, yeah, in the long run, it is so sexy.

You're going to feel so, so, so confident around money.

Yeah, I love that.

I mean, it's so many ways we inherit our family's money stories.

We don't just inherit the money.

We inherit the stories and the patterns.

And I love that you were willing to take a look and to shift that paradigm for your family, your lineage, and to do it with compassion and responsibility.

I think there's a, there's a lot of people that get stuck in the parent blame game.

And there's a place to be angry and then move on.

Not like we can be angry, but don't live there.

And, but I really, I, one thing that I love to do is really get clear.

Like I'll sometimes take people through a meditation around money where I will have them go back to their sick, like when they were six years old, whatever their childhood home was, really look at their mom and dad, what their relationship was with money and just meditate on, I learned, not what they told you, but I learned money was security or freedom or whatever.

And just to see that, what's living unconsciously, and then like do the work, like you're saying.

And I love that there's the inner work, but also practical tips in the book that you guys have.

We'll keep talking about.

So helpful.

Money loves structure.

Money loves money.

Yeah.

Money loves to be just in that container, you know, so it can flow in every which way.

Yeah.

And in some ways,

when you were talking about money, I was also thinking about parenting.

It's like, if we don't do the work around how we were parented, we're just going to pass that from previous generations.

So it's the same formula, different topic.

Yes, completely.

Yeah.

Even attachment styles with money.

Yeah.

You know, you were kind of talking about money, and I was almost saying like you're avoidant attachment with money.

Some people have anxious attachments.

Some people are secure.

Like you can apply the attachment styles to things like that to really work with your relationship with money.

100%.

Yeah.

And sometimes I'll teach about attachment styles and sales, same dynamics.

It's in us.

It just gets gets projected onto different relationships with money, people, sales.

And I also know that people struggle financially and that can show up around burnout and career.

And so I'm just curious, Krista, if you are open to sharing, because I know you've shared in your book.

that there were some red flags that you ignored right before burning out.

Can you share with us a little bit about that so we can become more aware culturally and just as a society?

Yeah.

And, you know, just honoring anyone in your audience that that feels burnt out and

been there, I still struggle.

I'll be honest.

We were reading our audio book the other day in New York City, and I was reading the burnout chapter, and I was like, oh no,

I was like, I've done so much growth, and this chapter still is hitting me right now.

So the burnout's very, I almost feel, and I don't know if this is your guys' experience, I almost feel like if I'm teaching about something, I get schooled to another level about whatever I'm speaking about.

Yes, it's like next level of growth.

You're now in grad school.

Yeah.

God's like, hey, we want to make sure that this is in integrity.

We want to make sure this is all good.

And I'll speak about my story with burnout, but what really kind of opened my eyes with burnout, I'll never forget we were on tour.

So we started the podcast in 2016 and we decided to go on tour when we were working full-time jobs.

I was working a full-time job in downtown Los Angeles in digital marketing, not the most aligned career.

Lindsay was a soul cycle instructor doing a few different jobs, but we decided to go on a world tour.

We put on ourselves.

We were going all over, and one of the cities we went to was in Washington, D.C.

And I remember we had kind of taken off work, but still been working.

Like we were just kind of making it happen, going all over the world.

We were setting up, we were breaking down, we were putting all the sponsor stuff in bags, we were checking everyone in.

It was exhausting.

It was exhausting.

I was running a tight ship at that point.

And

we were in DC and there was like 150 women that we were in front of.

And I was so tired.

I was like, I just felt exhausted.

And this is kind of how we roll, but we got in front of them and we're like, who's burnt out?

We just were like, these girls are probably like excited to be like, I got a feeling.

And we were just, I was like, who's burnt out?

Like, I just can't be anything but like authentic.

And I just asked everyone and every single woman in that room raised their hand and was like, I'm burnt out.

I feel burnt out.

And there's actually data and statistics that talks a lot about how most women are burnt out.

And women are so much more likely to burn out because we take on more emotional responsibility, responsibility, spiritual responsibility in relationships.

We take on more at work.

We also hold a lot of the, we also hold a lot of like, we just can hold a lot more with our multidimensionality, which can be sometimes taken advantage of, especially in the modern world.

So so many more women are burnt out than ever before.

We're taking on so much.

I think social media doesn't help, the internet doesn't help, et cetera.

So my journey with burnt out, with burnout was working the full-time job, building almost 30, and then getting to a point where my body was now reacting and responding to me because i had been ignoring it i had been bullying it i had been criticizing it and i had been using things like diet pills caffeine stimulants to push myself to a place where i could produce more and i could do more so i was essentially being run unconsciously by this part of me that was like this is never enough you're never good enough you have to do more success is working hard it wasn't alignment it was working more and working harder.

So I, my body just one morning was like just completely shut down.

I remember I went to Whole Foods in Venice and I got a 32 ounce coffee and then like added extra shots like of espresso.

And I drank the entire coffee and literally could not get up.

I was so tired.

My adrenals were just so shot.

They were like, we've done everything we can, girl.

We're trying enough.

And from that point, my body, you know, I put on like 30 pounds in like the course course of like two months because my adrenals were shot and just I had so much inflammation.

And I just became really sick from my burnout.

My body just completely was speaking to me and I wasn't listening.

And it became a point where I was like, just had to really reckon with what I was doing and why I was doing it.

And I wouldn't say it became perfect where I was like, oh, I love you so much, body.

I'm no longer burning out and pushing myself, but it woke me up in a way that was really supportive of my path and my journey.

And what I'll say to anyone that is on the edge of burning out is to really get curious about what's driving you.

I think when we live unconsciously and we're just like going through our day of work, side hustles, friends, relationships, all the things, we have to see like what is actually running and motivating us.

Is it adrenaline?

Is it fear?

Is it anxiety?

Is it not enoughness?

Is it the inner critic?

And we can slow down for a minute, whether it's meditation or prayer and just be curious about like, what is my motivation for going so hard or pushing myself?

We can then make different decisions that support us in living more balanced and more full.

And just as a last point, you know, I had to really get curious about what I'm, what do I want?

I want to be happy.

You know, I want to be satisfied.

And in the process of trying to be happy and satisfied, I was miserable and burnt out.

So I was like, okay, what?

We got to change something here.

So it's been a process.

And I will say I'm not the best at it.

I will say, of my flaws in life, doing too much is 100% my thing.

Like you will ask my sister, and cause I, you know, she's known me forever.

And she's like, oh, yeah, doing too much again sounds about right.

So it's, it's definitely my thing that I work on, but I feel more at peace than ever before.

I remember we were orbiting each other's worlds as friends and I was like, we didn't connect earlier.

And I was really more in a, in a growth mode.

Like I was really busy.

You were like, that's probably why, because you were moving away from some of that and starting to heal some of that.

And I think one of the things that really helped me around this was actually accepting the part of me that was driven.

Rather than trying to heal it or fix it, it was like, oh, it's really okay.

And as I accepted that, and I wasn't trying to get it to change, it softened.

I also, just as a side note, took a lot of that ambition from, I moved it from spirituality, which was really pointless, and I moved it to business.

And I was like, this is where it can be driven.

And I find that people that are in the personal or the fitness world, they tend, because in the fitness world, you can work hard and get results,

that drives them in business to burn out because it, but it's a different ingredient.

It's a different, like spirituality, business, and fitness require different ways of being.

They're different ingredients.

So just being, paying attention, because spirituality is more like golf.

It's like the harder you try, the worse it gets.

It's like you already are.

What was your spirituality burnout?

Cause you said you kind of moved that part, you gave that part a different role.

What was it like when you were spiritually kind of?

I took the, because as an Enneagram, I love the Enneagram for those that don't know, I have a podcast on it, but I'm a, the Enneagram is who we are not.

So it's our personality, but my personality type is an achiever and then I'm a helper.

So I like to achieve things and help.

So there's this growth.

I like growth, but if I was, if I'm really honest, I could also see on the opposite of this value was fear of not growing.

So I had to do some of the healing work around

really confronting and facing the thing I was trying to run away from.

And so the work became both.

But I took that ambition that I naturally have in my personality and moved it away from spirituality, which was the most important thing.

And I applied it towards business for the first time in my life in my late 20s.

And I was like, wow, this actually is helpful.

Whereas with the spiritual world, it created a lot of longing and desperation.

And it just wasn't helpful to try to be more of what I am.

And even these silent retreats that I was going to all the time, it was, it was not just enjoying what I am, it was just like trying to be,

trying to become rather than just be.

And so that would just flipped its head.

And it actually helped my spiritual life because I had a channel for all that ambition.

And, but for me, really accepting it was important because I was, I was trying to heal it as a way to get rid of it, if I'm honest.

And I was further trapped with it, further identified with it.

And so just being like, yeah, it's okay that I have that.

Or I'm supposed to be challenged right now.

I'm supposed to be ambitious, like really coming into alignment was really helpful.

Yeah, I think that's huge.

I love, I just love that.

And for anyone listening, it's like not trying to shame or blame or get rid of these aspects of who we are, but just giving them a different responsibility is really nice.

You know, you can be like, girl, I see you.

You know, for example, with the inner critic, you know, my inner critic, she is.

amazing.

She sees everything.

Lindsay knows.

Every time we do anything, I leave and I'm like, I should have said this.

We could do this.

I want to do this.

She's clocking everything and she's really helping me to become the best version of myself.

And when she's not checked, she's making me insane.

Yeah.

She's making me feel depressed and anxious and not enough.

But when she's checked and I'm aware of her and I'm like, okay, girl, now you have, you have 30 seconds, you have two minutes.

Like, what could we have done better?

Like, how can we prepare for the next thing?

Like, what would that look like to use her advice and her wisdom for my greatest good and not try and like push her in a corner or kill her?

Yeah.

That she's given a space.

Yes.

she's given us.

It's like all these parts of us just want to be seen and they relax.

Yeah, and we can take dominion over them more.

Yes.

And I know surrender and trust is a big part of this, which talking about spirituality, that's a big part of the game.

I know, Lindsay, you talk about faith isn't about certainty, it's about trust.

Can you talk to us about if there was a time in your life where you really trusted something bigger than yourself and how that changed everything?

Yeah.

So in my late 20s, I was, was, I was quite literally thrust into this period of being single.

I didn't know that I was being thrust into it.

Didn't know how long it was going to last.

I had blown up a relationship that I thought was my person.

I thought he was going to be, you know, my husband and we were going to live happily ever after.

He was my college sweetheart.

And there was a, you know, my soul was talking to me very quietly and gently and saying, you know, we got to look at this.

I don't know if this is your person.

And I was like very resistant until, you know, I just acted out and blew it up and cheated on him.

And that really,

that sent me into this very, what felt like an abyss, quiet period of like, I don't, I can't see three feet in front of me.

You know, I don't know who was that girl that cheated.

I'm so ashamed.

That was a whole experience.

And then also like, who am I without this person?

And so it sent me on this, you know, journey of really coming and walking back to myself and understanding like who I really am and like really loving my own heart and

like

trusting my soul.

And during this period, in the beginning of this seven years of being single, I was very resistant.

So I was like, get me on the dates.

I need to meet my person.

I am ready.

I'm out here.

Like, let's go.

And I was seeking someone from a place of, I am not whole until I find my person.

And so seeking from that place of not enoughness, not completeness, I was attracting people who actually treated me that way, who treated...

didn't really treat me well.

I was settling for just less than stellar behavior

until I was done with that.

I was like, you know what?

Probably about five years into it, I was like,

I think I'm ready to be with me.

You know, I'm ready to spend time with myself.

In the book, I talk about dating yourself.

It's a, you know, a really simple practice that I think a lot of people are nervous to try

to actually spend one-on-one, you know, or time with yourself.

But it's changed my life and a practice that I still do as someone who's married and has a kid.

So this looks like just carving out time where you

plan something that just lights you up.

When you think about it, you're like, I can't wait to do that.

But it makes you a little nervous because you're like, I'm going to be doing it by myself, you know?

But I think what happens is that, first of all, you're in your own energy, which I think is an important practice for anyone who's going to be in a relationship to know what that feels like, to no longer self-abandon.

And also, you are going to know what it feels like to be

met with the

temptation to numb, to distract yourself.

And you'll kind of bump up against those like growth moments of like, no, I can be here.

I can be in the discomfort.

I remember going on a solo trip to Ojai.

and I was rented this like Airbnb.

It was like a Airstream, like a fancy Airstream.

And I just remember it was like three months before I reconnected with my now husband.

I just remember sitting on the deck, the sun was beating on my face.

And I just started bawling because I was like, I,

I am so

happy with just being with me.

And if I never,

truly, if I never meet someone, I'm okay.

You know, I just like finally got to that point.

And

I think that's why I, that that's like what called in my husband, you know, on an energetic level.

And I've just still retained that to this day.

And it's, it's really served me in my friendships and in my intimate relationships.

But I, to come back to the trust piece, you know, I really had to trust the timing of my life, you know, and I think a lot of people might say it and they might have it on a shirt that they wear or a keychain, but it's like, are you living that?

Are you, are you truly trusting the timing of your life?

Because your unique soul blueprint is not like anyone else's.

So, if you're looking on Instagram to see when you should get married or how long it should take you to make your first million dollars,

it's probably not going to be on that timeline.

You know, you have a very unique path.

And so, the more that I leaned into that and trusted that,

just the more joy I experienced in the abyss and in the unknown, and also when it actually came, you know, it was

yeah, some things you got away.

You really came to a deeper sense of peace with what is.

And I think when we're not projecting fear into the unknown, we have a lot more peace and there's a lot more trust as a byproduct, but not trust as let me try to get to trust.

It feels like trust was a byproduct of coming to peace with what you were running away from or avoiding and really being good with you.

And then everything kind of unfolded.

It's beautiful.

And I'm curious for you, Krista, was there a situation or a moment in your life where you felt like things were falling apart, but it actually was a redirect to where something that was better than you could have imagined?

Yeah.

I'm so grateful, I would say, my divorce.

You know, I, um, growing up, I remember growing up in a conservative Catholic.

community in Ohio, like divorce was like scarlet letter.

Like even a few years ago, two years ago, I've been divorced for two years.

I went home for the holidays and all the families that we were around were talking crap about all the people that were divorced.

And I was like, I haven't told them yet.

And so something that was so much, so shameful for where I grew up was getting divorced, especially just being Catholic, but now was the most impactful and most pivotal moment of my life was choosing something that I didn't see would lead me to so much alignment.

And when you're in a relationship with someone, you are energetically putting all your money in a path and timeline that you've kind of predicted and created together.

So when you get married, you're like, cool, we're going to have kids.

We're going to move into the house.

This is what we're going to do.

This is how we're going to be.

And you just really are kind of like on that path.

And when you have a breakup or a divorce, you know, you're really investing in the unknown.

Like I had no idea.

what would happen in my life.

And I remember I was in Italy on this retreat and I had this session with a psychic there and she was like, you know, you shouldn't leave your relationship.

She's like, you guys should stay together and do this thing.

And I remember just leaving.

I was was like, no,

not for me.

I was like, that's nice, but not for me.

And it almost crystallized my knowing even more that it wasn't for me and that I wasn't going to follow the path and timeline that she was seeing.

I was going to follow my own path and timeline.

And so I chose to end that relationship.

And, you know, I just knew that whatever was unknown was better than the path I was on.

And no shade to this person, but the path that we were creating was not living a life of alignment.

And so I chose the path of the unknown.

And the beauty that's come in my life post that relationship, not because of that person, but because of who I was in the relationship has been the most miraculous thing.

It doesn't mean that I'm like in love with my soulmate right now or, you know, everything happened for me and I met Prince Charming and all these external things happened, but it meant I just cultivated this deep sense of trust and this deep sense of purpose and knowing who I am and that I can get through hard things and that I can follow the path that goes to someplace that I don't know for greater, you know, alignment and purpose in my life.

Yeah, it's like those moments really build the muscle of self-trust.

Oh my gosh, I'm so grateful for it.

You know, like I'm so grateful for the opportunity for that because I think a lot of people in relationships, like they're living in good relationships, they're, they're okay.

They're seven out of 10, six out of 10.

And I was like, I don't want a seven out of 10 life.

I don't want a good life.

I want like an epic life.

I want a deeply aligned life and I will do whatever it takes, how uncomfortable I will be to make that happen.

I love your commitment to truth and to what it is you want.

Yes.

I remember I was in Palm Springs and I was with this German man for about three years and he was saving up to get a ring.

And it was like the fact that I don't know this story is sort of triggering for me.

So the odds of seeing the reaction.

Really beautiful chiseled man that I was with in San Diego.

Haftam.

Yeah.

So he and I, I would say, had like a 9.5 out of 10 relationship, really beautiful relationship.

And I remember, and I'm thinking he's saving up and we're doing great.

I've had my whole life planned out.

And I remember being on this promenade outdoor mall and I heard this guy playing guitar, like Spanish finger picking.

And I had a direct knowing that in that moment that I was going to marry a Latin man.

And I was devastated because this was a 9.5 out of 10 relationship.

This man is incredible.

And in that moment, I could not see how either of our lives could have been better with someone else.

And so to even let go of something that was great

for a direct knowing that made no sense in my mind showed me that I can trust life.

And it's those moments that start to build that trust.

I mean, he's with somebody who goes backpacking in the Sierra Nevada for five days.

They've got two kids.

He's very happy.

I have the man of my dreams.

10 out of 10 relationship love and the willingness to let it go in service to your knowing.

We get tested in all these different moments.

And I think it's so important.

And I'm one, and I know that people are thinking, like, Lindsay, when do I, I want to leave this relationship, but I don't know when it's time to leave.

What do you say to them?

Because

there's so much, and I know this is a very complex conversation, but for people that are like, when do I walk?

Any advice?

Yeah, I think we both can speak to that.

First, you cheat, right?

Yeah, I was like, first you cheat.

Yeah.

And it's like, it's easy to leave when you cheat.

It just leaves a trail of

gobbledygoon.

Infidelity works.

Yeah, I think, you know, it's really important to realize that there's never going to be that perfect time.

I think we kind of wait for that like opening and like peace and it feels like, oh, I could just walk.

And oftentimes, you know, we're, we're called to get very honest, have a hard conversation.

So it's not going to be the perfect time.

So if you're waiting for that, I, I, I implore you not to.

But I think for me, whether it's from a relationship, from a job, from anything, you know, it's been important to just find as much

quiet as I can.

You know, I'm very impressionable.

So asking everyone for their opinion and what I should do.

usually leaves me more confused.

And so when I've been able to just be with myself, be with my heart and understand

what my soul is really calling me to do.

And I do that, whether it's through meditation, sometimes it's through singing.

I sing and it's just a way for me to kind of channel something that I can't really explain, but then I'm able to kind of feel it through

my vocals.

or just being in nature, you know, just simplifying and waiting for the truth to come through.

I think Krista can speak to this.

You know, she talks about in the book about letting go.

She had, you know, a very obviously potent time with letting go of your marriage.

But I do think overall, it's just, it's so much about your relationship with your own soul, you know, and following your heart.

It's, I write about this in the book, but following your heart is going to disrupt a lot of things.

You know, so when you let go it's most likely because you're following your heart and not everyone's going to get it you know so i think it's also like preparing for that it's like not everyone's going to understand maybe no one will understand um people might have to catch up it might disrupt uh patterns in relationships um you might feel very lonely after you let go um

but I think in my experience, I've felt like more at home and more myself after I've let let go of things that really were not meant for me.

And that's what I was seeking rather than kind of the

like surface connection and validation of like being in something that wasn't for me.

I think that's such an important piece.

Yeah.

I think what you said in there and then what you even mentioned in your story about you heard that voice of your soul and you were devastated.

I think is such a powerful thing to just double click on because I think a lot of times we think that hearing our soul is like birds chirping, you know, like we're like, go this way.

And you're like, and sometimes it is like my soul, bestie, ride or die.

But sometimes I'm like, not ready for that one.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, how about next, next week?

Like there's, there's even lessons.

Yeah, literally, there's lessons that it, that it kind of plants in my psyche that I'm like, we'll do that one next year.

And for me, leaving the relationship, you know, what I did in that container was I used it for the deepest growth of my life, where I was like, I will not leave this relationship without any any stone unturned.

I turned myself inside out.

I went to a darkness retreat.

I did like a silent retreat.

I did therapy.

I did all of these different modalities and coachings and things like that, just to really look at myself and how I was showing up in that relationship.

Not that I'm saying it had to be my fault, their fault, but I was like, is there any lesson that I'm missing?

Is there any aspect of this that I'm not seeing?

Where am I completely responsible for this?

Where has this been of my creation creation and of my doing?

And where have I co-created this situation?

And as soon as I got to the point where I just was at the end of it, and I was like, you know what?

And I remember I was sitting at the edge of the bed

and it was our anniversary.

And this was, you know, at the end.

And of course, on anniversaries, you fight and you, you know, there's drama and all of that.

So we were fighting, you know, didn't go to the dinner, all of that.

And I was sitting at the edge of the bed.

And he was just kind of going on.

And I remember my soul just like,

for the right person, you don't need to be perfect.

You just need to be yourself.

And it was like the last moment of my work where I was like, you know what?

I'd done everything.

And now it's being perfect is the goal.

And it's not that.

It's about being who I am.

And I knew in that moment that I was complete and that I was done and that it wasn't, the container wasn't going to serve me anymore.

It was only going to make me sick.

And so what I'd implore people to do with leaving relationships is just really look at what you've created in this relationship.

Why is this relationship showing up for you?

Why are you in this relationship?

What aspects of you have cultivated and called in this person?

And really just use it as a portal and container for your growth.

But then you have to know when to go because so many often people, and especially women, I see this.

all the time.

They use it to justify bad behavior.

They use it to justify situations and circumstances they need to leave from where they'll be like, oh, he's just an avoidant.

You know, it's kind of whatever.

And they'll just like label and sort of box these situations and things.

And it's like, no, you also have to have the courage and self-worth to know that you deserve peace and you deserve certain aspects of love, or you deserve all aspects of love, but you deserve the things that you're seeking and that you give in relationship.

I think it's so important.

Some of the things that you shared around taking personal responsibility.

I know my girl loves that.

One thing about my girl is she loves that.

That's all her being.

I'm like, yes.

Because not enough people talk about it.

It does not sound sexy to say that, what did I do to participate in this dynamic?

I want to blame and push them and cut them out.

But it's like, wait, I co-created this.

I allowed this.

What was my part?

Because as we heal that, then we don't for, we don't project it moving forward in another relationship.

And when I worked as a psychotherapist with couples, I would always say that stronger the attraction, the deeper the wound.

And so, you know, when you're like them, that's oftentimes just feedback that you have healing work to do.

And so it's not bad, but it's like, oh, and you can't get away from it because you can't tell yourself you don't want them when you do.

I think it's biology's way of like bait and hook or switch.

What is it?

Bait and switch.

Bait and switch.

Where it's like, let me get you drunk on all these cocktails of oxytocin and just connection so that we're motivated to do the work, but then do the work.

And I know you guys talk about karmic relationships.

Have you guys played with understanding the distinction between compatibility and chemistry?

So in karmic relationships, just to kind of explore what I've, what I talk about in them is that I think karmic relationships often bring you together to learn a lesson for your spiritual growth and evolution.

So that could be a week long, that could be a year long, that could be 10 years long.

My ex was a karmic relationship, and I've also had karmic relationships since.

And as someone that's deeply on my spiritual path, I told God I'm available for karmic relationships if it's in service to my path.

So I've brought a lot of men that are showing me a lot about myself.

And I think that you have chemistry in karmic relationships a lot of times to have the magnetism to pull you together for the lesson.

Like an example, I had the situation with this man where we just like, it was electric.

We met.

And I just was like, I was at dinner and I was like, like sick.

I was like, oh, I'm just, it was so much energy and all the fireworks and all the things.

And it just was something that we came together for a short period of time.

I learned so much about my avoidant attachment, you know, so much about things that were.

I needed to see and he did as well.

And it doesn't mean we're meant to be together.

So that chemistry that we had was sort of the magnetism of our souls being like, there is something here for you.

You committed to the path.

I'm going to bring you this situation.

I think compatibility is really the more grounded nervous system experience of you actually having a shared vision, shared values, and shared purpose in life that kind of brings you to that longer-term partnership.

And I can't say that I've experienced that yet, but I look forward to it.

But I think we oftentimes get confused, you know, because when we have the sparks, when we, and I don't think what you experienced in the karmic relationships were the sparks that i'm talking about i'm talking about when you feel like kind of like oh my god i hope you text me and like we had amazing sex and we did that you know it's like that kind of initial just like fire

that really kind of tugs on probably the parts of us that um

need healing need healing you know what i mean

and

i think part of what compatibility is, I like that you said grounded, because it is, it isn't that like flashy, sexy part of relationship but it's like the roots you know it would it's what allows you to flow in the wind and like kind of have those like really beautiful sexy sensual all the things moments but without those roots of that those connected values that alignment you know it's it's not stable in a lot of ways so i think when people are dating and meeting people they think that that spark is something deeper than it is and it's usually bringing up something, it's usually bringing up something that needs to be healed.

What do you feel?

Because

yeah,

I'm hearing this.

A friend of mine's have an analogy.

She's like, if you walk into an elevator and there's somebody you're repulsed by, neutral, and have to have.

The one that is neutral is usually the healthiest.

And I think sometimes you're rolling your eyes.

Guys, anyone that's listening, I'm rolling my eyes because I don't want to believe it.

Because I think sometimes

we think it's boring.

Yeah, it's and it's safe in our nervous system.

And I know.

If you could inject chemistry in my veins, I would be a happy girl.

And

I do know that chemistry can be built

and polarity and play.

I mean, going to a tantra retreat, you know, like it's, it's.

I think doing the, I love that you've done the healing work.

We have all had done the healing work, but as we do the healing work, then we allow the relationship to unfold as it wants to, rather than putting so much of our expectation of what we think it needs to give us onto it.

and then it can flower and show us what it wants to be, what it's meant to be.

When I was meeting and dating Emilio, my husband, we kept saying, This is out of our control.

Like, I, and I always like when somebody has a first date and it could go on for hours where you're just talking.

I kept saying, like, I feel like I've known you before.

I have like nicknames for you, just feels like at home with you.

And it wasn't, I mean, there was a for about three years, at first it was not fireworks, then it was fireworks.

I didn't recognize him at first.

And I tell you that because I had done so much healing work with my mom.

That's why I left this man, this German man in San Diego, because I directly healed it with my mom.

I was no longer a match to play it out and heal it with this guy.

And so then I met Emilio, who just wasn't a template of my past.

He wasn't my mom or dad.

And I was like, I didn't, that's why I didn't recognize him at first.

So allowing it to show us, I think there's something healthy in that.

And I couldn't, if I were in that elevator, I couldn't be like, oh, I heard this thing thing and I'm supposed to like this one.

You can't.

You've got to do the work so that you're less attracted to the fire, to the, to that trauma bond, you know, and do the work.

So it is more inviting and you're curious about the neutrality, the safety, the, and it doesn't mean, I don't even want to say neutrality because I have, I feel more turned on and have the best sex of my life 16 years in.

And so I also just want to be a voice for that.

It doesn't need to be, it's not boring for people that may be used to

trauma.

It could seem boring, but there's,

I don't know, it just,

there's, it's not only safe, but you can keep exploring and growing and expanding and freedom.

And

I promise you, it's available, but it's only available if we do the work.

And I loved what you were sharing around dating yourself as a foundation because that's some of the work I had to do to get there, to really be at home within myself.

Did you have a moment with Amelia where, because it was at first you didn't see him, did you have a moment that was like you saw?

I saw him.

It was like the light switch went on.

And I was, it was on the dance floor.

We had three, I love dance.

We had three different dances and I was exploring movement without meaning.

And at the end of every dance, I ended up nose to nose with this man.

And that's how we got together over three dances over a week.

It was every dance, I just kept saying, what wants to happen?

One dance class I went to, it was I coasted one and it was like nose to nose.

And I was like, oh, what was that?

Okay.

The next dance class, there was a woman that was instructing us and she had us partner together.

My best friend at the time was like, Amelia, you should come.

And then ditched us and had us come together.

And the woman would just have us do partner practices.

And so Amelia was moving my hips, like gyrating my hips.

And I was my with my head, I was saying, just say no.

I was like, this is a no.

And the woman was saying, just say yes.

And I was following the simple directions.

I wasn't putting meaning on life.

So I was in the surrendered state.

And so I was like saying no in my body.

And this woman was saying, just say yes.

And I was doing literal listening, not making meaning of it.

And I was like, okay, I don't want to give him the wrong impression.

And then we went to another dance.

And after a series of synchronicities, it was obvious we were together at the end of that dance.

And I was just like, okay, this is what wants to happen.

So there's a level of surrendering, but I didn't put all these unmet expectations of what I needed him to be because I had done that solo work with myself, healing my relationship with my mom, that this flowered naturally on its own.

Both of you,

correct me, or let me know if this is true.

Emilio and Sean were not the person you expected or exactly what you needed.

I didn't, I,

I, there were certain things that were non-negotiables for me, and he stepped into those and then surpassed them.

So not in the very beginning.

There's also, in my experience, an onboarding of talking about what's most important.

Can he show up for the things for me?

I was, I really wanted somebody that could meet me spiritually or help evolve me.

And he did.

But that wasn't the case in the beginning and so it took it it just took some surrender to allow it to and i was with him for four years before three years before we got engaged and i was vocal and honest about

you know you're this is for now and let's see what happens and you know he had to do his work around feeling he i lean more towards i'm we're both secure but i lean more towards avoidant he learns more towards um anxious so he had to do his inner work around i just want to love you and it feels feels like I want to jump in the pool and fully fall in love with you.

And I'm waiting on the sidelines for you to jump in.

He's like, but I just want to swim.

So I jump in and I notice that he's having fun.

And I'm like, okay, great.

I'll jump in to swim with you because there's less pressure.

And, you know, I could go deeper into my relationship with my mom, feeling like she needed something from me and that repulsed me.

And so him not needing anything helps support me in

surrendering.

And so anyway, there's longer with it.

But yes, I didn't fully recognize him at first.

And

it is better than I could have imagined it could ever be.

But I also didn't need it from him.

I'm letting that land because that's really powerful.

Yeah.

Yeah, I didn't, I mean, Sean wasn't in the package or anything that I thought would be like my person.

And, you know, I think that's like been one of the greatest joys of my life, greatest surprises of my life.

And it continues to be.

And I, I really, he is someone who, he is who he is no matter where he is.

I'm more of a,

I could be me, I'm me, but like, I like to, I like to try on different aspects of me wherever I am.

And so it's just been a really cool

opportunity for us both to just deepen.

I think deepen our commitment to our own growth.

You know, he is very self-led and

I've never had that before and it inspires me.

You know, I'm someone who's kind of like

in the past, I've been kind of like not as self-led.

And so he inspires me to be that way.

And he sees things in me that I don't see in myself.

But

I had to work through

how other people

metabolize Sean and experience Sean.

I knew from the moment that we reconnected that we would be together, that we would get married, that we would spend the rest of our lives together.

But I think for other people to get on board, it was a process.

And I had, my work was to

just work on what that meant for me.

You know, I think I was so concerned with how anyone experienced me or anyone that I was associated with.

So it was about just untangling from that in a very healthy way and allowing people to be in their process and having that be okay too.

I was sure.

And I knew that people who loved me and cared for me, they would eventually like get it.

And if they didn't fully get it, that's okay too.

I didn't need that.

I just needed

a respect and honoring of what I was choosing and what Cham was choosing.

Yeah.

And it's...

I think what's what surprised me, last thing, what surprised me about being in a relationship like this, in a conscious relationship, is that it's not always easy, you know?

And I think we all know that, duh, but I think for people listening, to be in a conscious, connected relationship is not always easy.

It calls you to the next level of you many times over, you know, and it can be crunchy and sticky and like very confronting at times, but I feel so safe in my relationship and I have the ability to fall apart.

and be MS and still be loved.

And I never had that before.

And like, he's allowed me to just, yeah, be that really messy, unprocessed version of me and know that like I'm still loved and held and and also held to a standard of like, you got this.

Like, just because you feel like a mess now and like just out of control, like I know you and I know your heart and I know you got this and I'm here with you.

So it's been very healing.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

It sounds like you feel safe and seen in that relationship.

Yeah.

And I'm thinking about Krista, just the

people and specifically women who are dating and they're like doing the self-work.

they're doing all of it and they're trying, but they're still feeling frustrated and disappointed.

What do you think the words are that they need to hear?

So in my dating process, I took a year off from my relationship just to be with myself and recalibrate.

And when I started to date, I committed to having fun and I committed to enjoying the process.

So that's been my entire process.

I've had my heart broken.

I've been ghosted.

I've dated weirdos.

You know, it's been, it's been a thing, but I've had fun the entire time because I know it's for my greatest good.

So, what I'll first say to women that feel disappointed and feel, you know, like

whatever's not happening for them right now, it's I've had to really heal my relationship with my own masculine internally.

And what I realized what I was doing in my dating was I was looking for outside of me what I needed to give myself as far as my inner masculine.

I used to say, you know, I really want to be in a relationship because men ground me.

They like like help me relax.

They help me, you know, just stay calm.

Like I loved how men like really just kind of bring me to earth.

And I was like, oh, wait, I need to do that for myself.

I need to ground myself.

I need to make myself stay in.

I need to hang out on the couch.

I need to be simple.

I need to be in my body.

I need to be all the things that the inner masculine does.

So giving yourself whatever it is that you're seeking on the outside, which is something we all know, but I think there's a difference between when we're giving ourselves what the inner mother will give us and what the inner father will give us.

So I had to really give myself that inner father experience of the inner masculine, of whatever that part of me is seeking.

I think also healing the relationship with how you see men.

I think a lot of times women want relationships with men where they're like, I really want a man or a husband or a boyfriend or whatever.

And they literally hate men.

You know what I mean?

They're like, they're trash.

They're the worst.

They're all these things.

And I'm like, I

absolutely love and cherish men.

And I've had my own journey with that.

I've been cheated on.

I've had infidelity.

I've had liars, all the things.

It's not like men have been good to me my whole life.

And I still struggle in my relationship with my father in this moment.

But I've chosen to love men and I've chosen to see the good in men and I've chosen to see how they show up for me in a way that's very unique rather than how women show up for me.

And I think a third part of that is I see men and the masculine and how they show up as different than women.

I think a lot of times women are disappointed when they go into the dating world expecting men to show up how their friends show up.

No man, if you're in a heterosexual relationship, this is what I perceive, this is a lot of Allison Armstrong's work too, is going to show up and hold you and see you and have the same vocabulary and texture of attunement as women.

I'm so lucky.

The women in my life, you guys being two of them, are top tier, immaculate, incredible.

They hold me in a way I've never been held.

But I'm not going and meeting men and expecting them to have the same way of seeing and vocabulary vocabulary and depth and emotion that the women have.

It's not that I'm saying I'm expecting them to be avoidant and out of touch and unemotional and all these things, but they have a different texture for me.

And I've now seen the beautiful texture that they have of stability, of containment, of vision, of leading, of groundedness, of like this beautiful.

frame for me that has been really beautiful.

So not expecting them to be different or expecting them to be like women, healing our relationship with the masculine, and then giving yourself all the things that you're seeking for from the outside.

Powerful.

All of it.

So good.

And then just in closing, because I wanted to bring this forward, because you talk about, it's a whole chapter in your guys' book, almost 30.

You talk about questioning everything.

And this has been one of the most powerful spiritual practices I've ever had.

And I've been doing it since I was 12.

I actively take time every day with you,

12-year-old to listen to

like praying to the moon, playing guitar, just like questioning everything, questioning what is marriage, questioning who am I?

It's such a profound practice.

Is there something in your life, Lindsay, where it completely changed the trajectory of where you were going by questioning everything?

Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's funny because when I, when I think about that, I just think about my like little girl in me who who like loved to ask so many questions, so many questions.

And, you know, in my late 20s, when I was going through my Saturn return and it felt like my life was just falling apart, everything that I had planned to be and do and the people that I was going to be with and all of that was like not going according to my plan.

I just was kind of left totally cracked open.

And in that opening, a lot of light came in.

And the light was like shining on like these questions of like,

who am I really?

Who am I without,

you know, my, my long-term relationship that I thought was going to be my person?

Or, um, you know, who am I at the time?

I was like kind of drinking a lot.

I was doing all the things.

And I was like, who am I without?

a couple shots to start my night and

what's meaningful to me in my friendships and um what does my soul really want to do this year and and so when I started to just actively like live those questions, not needing the answer in the moment, but just allowing like my heart, allowing those questions to be on my heart as I lived my life,

things started to come, seemingly come together.

It just felt like my life was like a bunch of synchronicities, as if like my life was trying to show me little aspects of the answer or the next best step.

And so I think if anyone is in a period where they feel lost, where they feel

just not like themselves or so far from themselves, they can begin with really simple questions, you know, like, what would it feel like to just put down my fear of fill in the blank?

What would it feel like to,

you know, be in a relationship where I feel like loved and honored and respected?

And what would I do if I knew that I couldn't fail?

A cheesy one, but it's such a powerful question.

I think so many of us are like so obsessed with, but I'm going to fail.

That would be the end of the world.

And so I just, I think the simple act of questioning, like you said, where we have that, that little inside of us who so naturally asked questions about the world, so curious.

And I think a huge part of spirituality is just being curious, you know, being so present and aware that you can be curious about every moment, where you are, who you're with, how you feel.

And it's really deeply profound if you allow it.

I love that you're living the question.

It's a living inquiry.

It's not just waiting for the answer in the moment, but it's on your heart and life, you're in conversation with life.

That's profound.

And I know you guys have your book, Almost 30.

Talk to us about it.

Tell us more about it and where people can get it.

Want to hear all the things.

Yeah.

So almost 30 is like a spiritual guidebook to adulting.

It's really for people that are becoming conscious.

And you can be almost 30 to read it or not.

But we found that the portal of 27 to 30 was so profound because you have your Saturn return, which is a really powerful astrological event where the planet Saturn hits the same point in the sky where you were born.

And this really brings up a lot.

It really helps you evaluate where you are in life, your relationships, how you're showing up, your career.

And for a lot of of people, it means they lose their jobs, they have a breakup, they have a move, they get married, they have kids.

There's just this really powerful portal.

It happens a few times in our life, right?

30.

Every 80, 90?

Yeah, every 80.

Exactly.

Yeah, so then that's why, you know, quarter life crisis, midlife crisis, and then you have like later in life, you have all these moments.

And then also your prefrontal cortex is coming online when you're almost 30.

So you really have this point where you can evaluate.

consciously how you're showing up.

From the point until you're almost 30, you're sort of living a life that everyone expects you to live.

You're doing the things everyone wants you to do.

So in this guidebook, we really were just like, how could we go from where we were in our lives when we met, when we were almost 30 at rock bottom?

Like I was so depressed.

I was so anxious.

I was, my body was off.

My relate, you know, I was just really not loving my life to a point where I'm absolutely aligned and love my life.

And so everything in the book, whether it's from our amazing podcast guests or whether it's practical tips or exercises from us, or it's some of our vulnerable stories, is supporting people and really living a life that they love and remembering that they're not behind, they're just becoming.

I love that.

It's really good.

It's really good.

It's not behind me.

It's really just becoming.

Yes.

I mean, if we could know that, you know, if I could have known that, I just felt like I had to be somewhere by 30.

Me too.

Have to be somewhere by 35.

I have to be, we always have to be somewhere.

And it's like, no, if you were a soul looking down at your human, you'd be like, you are just in process.

And this, this is the whole point.

This is what we're doing here.

Yeah.

You know, the mythic drama of life is what makes everything so much fun.

Yes.

Yeah, that's the point.

And seeing that little one from a soul perspective, seeing that younger one in the human experience with so much compassion through it all, the forgetting, the trying, the anxiety, and that can actually be incredibly healing.

We will put all of the show notes here below, all the links.

And for people that are listening, you know, take a screenshot, share with us what was one of the most powerful moments from this episode.

Share it.

We'd love to just stay connected.

And I just adore you both.

It's It's so good to meet you in person finally.

I know, finally.

And I just thank you.

I've talked to you forever.

I'm so grateful to be, you know, with your community again and you.

You're just everything that you teach.

You are one of the

three people I know that embodies everything that you teach.

And I just honor that so much about you.

You're such a sage.

You're such a loving person.

And you truly show up for the work in life and your friends.

And it's just like gift of a lifetime to witness.

Thank you, honey.

You're welcome.

I love you.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world starting with yourself.

It truly does make a difference.

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But for now, I just want to say thank you so much for being an example of what it's like to live with an open heart and mind in the world.