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Car antennas, weighted gym socks, old billboards, and axes are all things that hit people in this movie.

We saw tough turf.

So you know what that means.

Now

Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made?

I am Paul Scheer, and today we are talking about Tough Turf, James Spader, Kim Richards, and Robert Downey before he was a junior.

It's a story basically

just like Rebel Without a Cause, but different and less dramatic.

But a young kid comes to a new town, starts to flirt with a girl, and the gang doesn't like it.

I mean, there's more nuance than that, but we'll get into it all with my two co-hosts.

Please welcome Jason Manzukas and June Diane Rayfield.

Welcome, both of you.

Wow.

Wow.

Thank you.

Wow.

I'm curious.

I had not only never seen this movie, I was not aware, because this is like square.

This is now I looked it up 1985.

This is square in the period of my life.

You know, I'm 13 years old at that point where I would have known I knew all these actors.

I knew, why have I never seen or even heard of this movie?

Okay, well, this is the first time that James Spader has topped billing.

So this is a big movie for James Spader, but I feel like this might have been the beginning of the wave that we know Spader.

I think it's sure.

I mean, we'll see Spader and Downey later in Less Than Zero, but, you know, this is...

I mean,

and to see young Kim Richards,

who I also recently saw in an episode of Magnum P.I.

Go ahead, June.

Well, I was actually, I did not realize it was Kim Richards till I was so distracted by the length of that hair.

So it took me a while to realize that she felt so familiar.

And then

it hit me like a ton of bricks.

Was anybody else worried that that long hair was going to get caught in the bike wheels when she's lying?

I was worried about it.

I was worried about it the entire time.

It was such a disgusting length.

And when you say long, it wasn't like long for the time.

It was like Guinness World.

It was like Crystal Gale long.

Yeah.

It was like novelty long.

Yes.

And crimped.

And yeah.

So actually, so even longer.

We saw it with a curl.

That was straight.

it was so, and you know, something interesting about long hair and women because it's like it's seen as attractive, attractive, attractive, attractive, and then it gets too long.

And hers was actually like a foot too long.

But anyway, all of this is to say, Paul, I'm actually really upset

that we didn't do a crossover episode with Casey and Danielle of Bitch Sesh to have some like real housewives historians on and drama.

I feel like that was a really

sorry.

I was really upset.

I'm like, I have to turn on this movie and nobody tells me, nobody alerts me.

Nobody says boo about the fact that there's a real housewife starring in it.

By the way, like, I'd like no either.

Secondly,

until mid-movie, I also didn't put it together.

So it's weird.

I think maybe just because, like I said, I saw her recently on an episode of Magnum PI.

The minute she showed up, I was like, oh my God, that's, and I've never seen her.

I don't know real housewives, but I was like, that's that same woman who I just saw in Magnum PI that was one of the real housewives.

And what's so tough?

What's so tough in this moment for me is that you don't know real housewives.

So I know.

I can't now trade on any of the detail a little bit because this is my one that I I like I like Over the Hills but I can't go as deep as June I can't go as deep as Casey if we want to maybe try to get them on the phone for the end of the episode to see if they can weigh in I mean I'm all for it it's so it's just so hard because it just feels so um

should we just should we write to them right now and ask them to immediately start watching the movie and then we'll call them in 45 minutes I will say because I guess I have to speak on behalf of like the canon you know the bravo

lore like it's so crazy because like it's the great works of literature, like

speak to it.

You do need to speak to it.

It's like, I'm not going to not say something, you know, my silence would be deafening.

So, what's so wild for those of us who know current Kim

is she's so

out of her mind.

And

it's, it's pills, it's, I don't know what it is, but it's something.

And she is

gone girl as a person.

And I have such a movie Gone Girl as a person.

Yes, yes.

To me, I feel like she is this character if she hung out with the leader of the gang for like 30 more years.

Yeah, if she stayed with Nick, is that his name?

Well, what that's what's so shocking to watch Kim Richard, young Kim Richard, I thought she did a fantastic job, but I'm great.

She's great.

Wow,

she's putting sentences together.

She's getting a thought,

you know,

communicated.

She's walking and talking.

Like it was such a, um,

it was such a shock to see her this way.

And I never knew she had hair that long.

So there's just a lot that I need to connect on.

And I don't, I feel alone here.

Not extensions.

That was real hair.

That was real hair.

I guess it was.

It's real hair.

It's a thousand percent real hair.

I do want to just speak to what Jason was saying about knowing all these people.

At this point, this is a year before Pretty and Pink comes out in the in the theater so you know, so this kind of walks us back a little bit I also would argue that James Spader even though he looks like a man in his mid-20s is doing something very different than any other James Spader in the 80s role.

He's normally like the coked up dude the rich dude and there is an element to that but he's also kind of like this Batman character like I felt like am I watching like high school version of drive that movie you know it's like there's like there's an energy here.

I was like, oh, I was waiting for him to like

go crazy.

Yeah, it had all of the, like you said, Rebel Without a Cause.

It had, it was like 10 movies in one.

It's like, it's a, it's a 1985 movie, and it's set in, it's set then.

So everybody's got all the, all the styles, all the new wave music, everything is 80s, but it has the structure of like, you know, 50s style gangs who are concerned with turf.

Like we didn't, nobody talked about like, whose turf is this in the 80s.

That's like 50s gang speak.

That's like Westside Story or Greece.

Or again, it's another 80s looking back at 50s style like

highs.

Because again, this is a high school gang of toughs.

We open up this movie with a scene.

First of all, someone needed to tell the DP like, hey, we should put a light.

on some of these nighttime scenes because when when skater is biking around and there's another time when they're driving around at night, like it is dark.

It's like if I took an iPhone photo of a camera.

Because then,

yes, it's too dark there, but then like when they're at the club

where Robert Downey, period, just Downey, is playing with his band in the warehouse, it's bright as day.

Yeah, no, it's like very light the scenes inside.

Great.

Or they just shot them during the day.

Yeah, but it shouldn't be so bright.

Like, I was like, who wants to party in this time?

I want a nice dim.

That one dance sequence with Jim Carroll.

Jim Carroll.

Jim Carroll Carroll band.

Yeah.

Jim Carroll Basketball Diaries.

Like, I'm like, wait, this movie is truly blowing.

Like, I wrote down, I think I love this movie.

I'm not like sure.

My only grievance with this movie, quite honestly, is that it's almost two hours long.

Yes.

Yeah, it's very long.

One hour and 52 minutes.

And I looked at it.

I was like, that has to be a mistake, right?

It's got to be.

Yeah.

Otherwise, though, I, like you, I I was like, I would have loved this in the 80s.

I would have loved a high school set, drama, contemporary drama, a la

those kind of,

those old movies,

like, you know, gangs and fights, and all the, but, and then good music.

It's like Marianne Faithful, Jim Carroll.

Like, there's all these great new wave artists.

There's all this great music that's in.

I mean, they've also got like throwback, like Booker T and the MGs, you know, like there's like, it's a great soundtrack.

It's really interesting.

Good actors.

I was like, but this movie, I've never even, this, I don't know anything about this.

But it also, to me, I mean, I enjoyed it.

And I also have so many questions because.

The movie opens up in this sequence where you're watching this kid go, well, I don't even know if it's a kid because it's so fucking dark.

And we learn it's James Spader, but bicycling through, and it's not even a cool bike.

It's just kind of like a normal 10-speed.

It doesn't even, you know, and you're like, what's the tone here?

What am I seeing?

No parking sign.

Okay, that doesn't really give me that much.

Cocktails.

Well, that's just a bar.

It doesn't seem, like, I don't know what kind of city they're trying to let me know that we're in, like, but it just seems kind of normal.

And then you get to this scene where there's an old man, you know, middle-aged man, not an old man, a middle-aged man out on the street waiting for a cab.

Young woman comes up to him to ask him for some money, which he immediately thinks is going to go his direction.

He asks her for a drink, even though she does look like she is a high school student.

And this is all a ploy to kind of violently rob him.

I mean, the way that that opening sequence works.

I don't know why they needed like eight people.

Well, the split.

Why?

I remember that too.

The split is going to be very unsatisfying.

Each of them's walking away with maybe five bucks.

You know what I mean?

Ten bucks.

And what a risk, you know?

Too many people to just be mugging one guy.

I'm the dude that holds the antenna.

Well, I'm the dude who does the lookout.

I'm the girl who's the guy.

I hold the knife.

No, you know what?

The extraneous person was the other girl.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

She's the one who just gave like sort of a thumbs up.

But it's like, but

she's the lookout.

But Kim Richards could have easily done that.

That was really...

That felt extra, felt bloated.

They had worked out so much that everybody had a role.

And so they all had to like nod and be like, okay, now you go.

And I was like, well, they've clearly put work into this, but actually they've overdone it.

You don't, you don't, like, once Kim Richards starts talking to the guy, if you're just going to grab him and push him up against the wall, you can do that now.

I mean, he cooks in the kitchen.

Because that guy is not going to put up a fight.

You don't need to run game on this man to, because all they did was grab him and throw him into a wall.

Like they didn't need...

anything more than the one guy to grab him and throw him into the wall.

It felt like a and in doing so, like, so like the opening of this movie is this, you know, street tufts robbing a guy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But so it felt like I almost like the Warriors or something.

You know, it felt like, and then hard cut to Spader rides his 10-speed in, foils the robbery, rides off, and next thing you know, it's a high school set montage.

And, and, and I was like, what is this?

Can we just talk about how he comes in?

Because again, we're following this person on his bike.

It just seems like he's riding around in the middle of the night.

It has those feelings of like, I can't sleep, insomnia, whatever.

And then he's whistling a jaunty tune.

He's like a happy Batman.

He is so fluid.

He grabs a spray paint can, spray paints all the attackers, like on, you know, unarms them, and he's singing a song, and then just kind of rides off into the night.

And the gang is like, oh, who the hell is that?

But it's so weird because you're like, oh, this is a story.

This is a vigilante story.

This is like a, this is like a.

I thought it was going to be a very cool rider

from Grease 2.

Grease 2.

Yes, we remember it well.

Greece 2, which I did buy June the LP.

We have the vinyl here in the house, the Greece 2 vinyl.

I will say, though, that I still think it's a high school movie because before that sequence that you talked about, Jason, that high school sequence, we cut to James Spader in his bed full of roaches.

His bedroom is full of roaches.

And you're like, oh, like on the wall.

Like, I was like, ugh.

And his room is a mess.

And we see him under like these covers, like Cameron from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

I'm like, is he sick?

What's going on?

Is he like,

has he gone catatonic?

What is happening?

And then he all of a sudden moves with these two,

what we learn are like paintball guns.

They seem to be shooting darts.

Okay, because I thought there was like a little blue splat.

All right, so two dart guns that he then perfectly aims at these two cockroaches on a uh albert einstein poster is like bam bam and i'm like oh

this is a revenge movie he never shows that again like he never shows yeah he's not a sharpshooter he's not a yeah yeah yeah never shows any use them at the very end

oh yes he uses i think what you're getting at paul is was my

was my concern as well which is like i never quite understood what what Spader, and I love Spader.

I've always loved Spader.

I just love him.

I never quite understood what he, his character, Morgan, wanted, wanted.

Like, yes, and or what he cared about.

What he cared about.

Like, I get that he's sort of taken with Frankie, but in that first scene on the bicycle, like, it doesn't seem like he has

this moral compass and is this sort of crime stopper or anything like that.

It just seems like he happened to be there.

I think he just likes mixing it up.

And it sounds like he's always getting in trouble.

Like

he got in trouble in Connecticut.

He got in trouble at boarding school, got kicked out.

It seems like he just gets into trouble.

Right.

You know, and like to not to jump ahead too far, but you know, later in the movie, his father is shot.

by the by the main guy who's bullying him and who's you know is you know issuing him savage beatdowns with the the locks and the towels that was like a brutal scene anyway yeah but spader doesn't even react to his father being shot like he doesn't

well he seems to be like a or he what we're what we're trying to bond with is this kid used to be super rich and now he's poor and he's like mad his brother's still seemingly rich

i mean he wants to like show up the rich because i think there's an element to him like the rich kick me out.

That's why he wants to break into the country club.

Like I think he wants to be like, I used to play this game.

I don't play it anymore.

But he also doesn't feel

is still in that world.

And he's he's well, once again, a little bit to what you both have said so far, like Spader.

It doesn't Spader feels great in this movie and is doing a gangbusters performance, but he doesn't see, I don't believe him.

The only thing I don't believe is that he's these people's son.

Oh,

no, I mean.

Okay, well, I have so many questions.

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The scene where Spader's Morgan's older brother Brian

is is back and we've heard before that like Brian is you know the favorite son and his son all the right things fine.

So the scene where he's introduced, he's sitting with his mom outside and they're drinking wine and I thought for sure, oh, when I first saw them together, this is a date or this is her boyfriend and the guy we saw earlier was his grandfather.

Okay.

Like the ages and the sort of,

because that guy seemed so old.

Well, when we saw his dad,

or oh, I see, the brother.

And the dad.

So when I saw, so when we see him, Spader jump on his bike and leave for school, his dad's coming in from being a cab driver at night.

And in my mind, I was like, okay, I buy this version of it.

I buy Spader as the independent son of a single father who's older and is, they don't really, they're not connected much.

That made sense to me.

But when they were instead like a family unit that had just been displaced from like

Tony, Connecticut kind of, then I was like, oh, wait a minute.

Now I don't understand what this is.

What happened in Connecticut?

What happened?

Well, his dad's business went under at one point.

That's all we know is it went under.

He didn't seem like his dad did anything wrong.

It just went under, I think.

But there's a moment.

Okay.

There's a moment in the movie where he's like, this isn't Connecticut, mom.

Things are different here in Southern California.

You could almost make.

a very clear connection to like the OC and Connecticut, Laguna Beach and Connecticut.

But this, I think, is receding.

Yeah, this is receding.

Oh, yeah, because it's like,

what does it say on all the signs like fuck Tahunga or like fuck Toluca?

Oh, who does it?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, like that.

But this is not the OC.

This is not Dana Point.

This isn't seem that.

I mean, I guess it is rough, but it's like, it doesn't seem like this is a whole different world than Connecticut.

It definitely is different than like Tony kind of country club town.

It's not that.

You know, they have to drive to whatever, Beverly Hills were wherever they go to go to the country club, you know, which is, which is fun and a funny set piece to give him an opportunity to kind of flex the nonsense of what he used to, the systems he used to live in.

I have so many clips from that, by the way.

Oh, that's great.

I think that that

moment might have been Robert Downey Jr.'s audition tape for Saturday Night Live because he does shoot this movie and then goes the next year to Saturday Night Live.

Like, oh, his his character work is great.

Oh, yeah.

Because he,

and again, Robert, I'm not making fun of it.

Robert Downey is likable and fun and whatever, but it's like, he definitely does a lot of the comedy heavy lifting.

In that scene, you feel like they're like, improvise, and he just improvised and disones.

And it, and it felt, they very much felt, even though they only share a couple of scenes together, he and Spader feel very comfortable with each other.

They have great chemistry, and they also are both doing really good versions, already pretty great versions of like their performance style to come.

Yes, this is even though there's a cleared prequel to like less than zero.

It's like a low stakes less than zero.

Like you're like, oh, I like somebody clearly saw this movie and was like, oh, we'll put them all together.

I just want to, I just want to play this one clip because we're talking about the dad, and we may not get back to the dad RIP,

of with the dad giving like all these platitudes to him, like when he talks to him about like what it takes to be a real man.

It's like it he's saying and I he's well listen just just cut out that self-pitying crap.

I don't want you to be Brian.

I want you to be you

All right, so you screwed up

So what

I expect you to make mistakes.

That's what life's all about for God's sakes.

How else are you gonna learn who you are and what you believe in?

What do I do right now?

Right now, you do what you really want to do.

Do whatever it is

that you know is right, that you believe in, that's all.

And feel good about it.

Life isn't a problem to be solved, it's a mystery to be lived.

So, live it.

I couldn't quite tell in that scene.

It's like, is it supposed to be like the dad has nothing to say, or the writer is like, these are good platitudes?

You know what was interesting?

Because I was actually thinking about that.

I'm like, gosh, if our children were getting into trouble,

I'm not sure that the first thing I would say is just do what you want to do, which is essentially what the dad says.

Like, do you, like, what you want to do is great.

Don't worry about your older brother.

Do you?

And it's like, well,

I don't know.

You know, I think that he is doing him and it's not working out.

I think the dad, I felt like.

But what is even him?

Like, what is like, what is him?

What is like, I don't know what his goal is.

His goal is like, he stopped a crime.

The gang is mad.

They wreck his bike.

And that's really, and then.

And then he likes the girl.

And he likes the girl.

And then he gets them arrested by stealing a car and then making them steal it from him.

Like he, he thought that process out.

But he really doesn't do, like, he just kind of agitates the gang.

He doesn't do anything with a larger worldview.

At one point, the principal's like, and you played those concerts on the roof.

He's in multiple scenes with music.

When that principal said that, I thought for sure, inside of this movie, we were going to get a concert on the roof.

By the way, no, we didn't.

We did get a concert in the you know country club.

And that's what, if I were his dad, I would say, like, let's get you into music lessons.

But by the way, let's,

because you know, in this movie, every single location has a live band playing, whether it's lunch at a Tony Country Club or a warehouse party, every place has a full band.

And he never gets up to play, but yet when he does play, this is not the song that you think of somebody saying, Oh, you got up on the roof.

I feel the thunder,

I feel the pain,

I know the struggles you keep,

the nights in the rain.

I feel your face,

I hear your eyes.

I know the nights that you cried, but still

we survive.

I walk the night.

I walk the night.

Fighting the darkness that breaks our hearts, we hold each other tight.

Yeah, he sings like this Neil Diamond song.

It's like, that doesn't seem like the rock.

You're mad that this kid likes Neil Diamond?

Like, he doesn't seem to be like a tough dude.

Like, what's wrong?

What's wrong with this scenario?

you said it earlier but i also wrote it in my notes too paul which is there are elements of this that i was like i had to look it up this uh this came out the year before ferris bueller's day off and there are real ferris bueller moments like the in the bed thing um and then also this like

Let's break into the country club, pretend like we belong, and then let's get on stage and perform is kind of like taking over the parade float and kind of making everybody look at you, you know?

And I felt like this was that, but that he chooses to sing a ballad, like a piano ballad was so, and the crowd just completely goes along with it.

Like the richie rich country club people.

The richie riches,

I love so much because, you know, it seems like in the 80s, the only thing you needed to do as either a costume designer or as an actual rich person was just take a sweater,

drape it over your shoulders, and then tie it in a knot right at your chest.

By the way, that was my outfit.

That was the way that my mom dressed me 90% of the time.

Okay,

a couple of follow-up questions, though, Paul.

Like,

you had to be old enough.

Like, at what age?

Because at a certain age, you were should have been dressing yourself.

Wait, was your mom dressing you like that in high school?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, literally, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no,

no, no, no, no, but I will say that my mom in a power drape.

Oh, yeah.

Like, my mom mom also used to dress my stepdad up like that is there a picture available like currently yes yes i can get you a picture right here because that's so like that's a wild reality if you're like a little a little businessman a little weekend businessman it's also like you're a kid like how do you use your arms and play and climb climb and my mom my mom we were not of that ilk we were not of the james bader connecticut ilk but we we definitely tried to dress that way i mean we definitely tried to dress that out that is i mean your mom to this day rocks a you know a sweater over a yes a t-shirt or a oxford white button down

i have no problem with that i know you don't jason but always throws a nice little sweater over it so this is a little sampling a little flavor of uh all of my looks

Okay, so this is number one.

This is kind of...

That's pretty good.

I mean, that's, you know, that's like a, you know.

Yeah, that's good.

You know, it's good.

All right.

I mean, it's not quite Country Club good, but it's good all by high

underneath.

No, it's just a buttoned at the collar white button shirt to the collar with a V-neck.

Also, very patriotic, red, white, and blue.

Yes.

That's a little, again, like a little turtleneck, white turtleneck.

Okay.

Okay.

I only wish you were wearing a little blazer.

Great.

All right.

And then,

listeners, these are really delightful.

So amazing.

And then

there's you fringing your mom.

There you go.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, baby.

Oh, yeah.

Come on.

It's a tie.

It's a tie with a sweater draped over it.

So it's not even a casual look because the tie dresses it up.

Now, where were you going?

I think I was maybe going to school.

I'm not positive.

Wow.

Wow.

So that, yeah, there you go.

That's me and my audition for tough turf.

I also love, there's so much in this picture that I'm obsessed with.

The lines in the rug,

which I needed to do,

I had to essentially vacuum the rug as if I was hoeing a field, like up one side, down the other.

Totally.

I remember that's like mowing the lawn.

It was the same.

Yeah, I remember because I used to also do the vacuuming.

So, of course, I noticed that.

And then

the table, this whole picture, this is incredible stuff.

By the way, do you you like the empty wine rack that I'm next to?

Completely empty wine rack and a wall with nothing.

Nothing on it.

And the outlet cover is a different white than the wall color white.

Yeah.

Oh, there we go.

It's also like the table is pretty far away from both the chair and the outlet.

I'm obsessed with this picture.

You look so cute.

I can honestly face it.

The red draped over the shoulders is some next level stuff.

Yeah.

You know, here's another.

Here's another, you know, this is another shot of me, you know, my little lacoste.

I mean, look, I'm always, I'm a kid who's wearing a tie and a white sweater a lot.

I'm wearing.

And I will say this too, though.

Your mom's blouse, I'm assuming that's your mom.

Yes.

Yes.

Your mom's blouse in this picture is really the focus.

This is

gangbusters.

This is ruffles on ruffles on ruffles.

On sleeves.

And then I think also like a princess sleeve.

Yes.

Yes.

So yeah, yeah that's a puff that's puff a puff sleeve like ann from anne of green gables would say yeah there's a some good shot they these are great yeah so that that is some tough turf looks for sheer uh

you know well going back to what we were saying about spader um you know i couldn't quite get to the bottom of why

nobody pressed charges after Spader's father was shot.

By the way, James Spader literally,

like, I understand, like, we're not talking about an acting choice.

He is truly unmoved by his father being shot

by his sandwich.

I found that scene to be pretty brutal.

I mean, this was the weird thing overall about the movie for me.

There was,

to me, it vacillated between being like, oh, this is like a high school movie, you know, very similar to Greece and like

this sort of class struggle, and you know, people from the wrong side of the tracks mixing up with these Richie Riches and all of that.

And then there's music, and there's these fun elements, and then there's some brutal violence that really escalates.

Really escalates to the music.

Escalate in like a

Saturday Night Fever way.

Yes.

You know, where I'm like, radical violence,

you know, like, you know, at one point, Nick is going to like

kill Kim Richards.

You know, like, there's really the stakes are jump from high school.

You're right, high school level stuff, you know, switchblades and

fist fights to like true.

Family massacres.

Yeah.

To like, yes, killing people, like murder in a way that, like, like, I don't understand why Nick is even able to be in the rest of the movie.

He should be arrested immediately.

By the way, he stole a car and he gets out like the next day.

Like, he basically, you know, and I guess maybe you can get out if you post bail, but it didn't seem like they had a lot of

I don't know what's going on there because Kim Richards' dad, I mean, that whole scene was really upsetting.

He gets out of jail, and then basically

they come in to just reveal like

we're married.

Now, do you see why you have to go?

I'm coming.

Come to my house for dinner tomorrow night.

No way.

It's Frankie.

Forget it.

Come on.

I'm coming.

I'll be there.

Read it.

Go, Morgan.

Go, get out of here.

I'm coming.

Nothing.

Can't a girl have any privacy around here?

Yeah,

but uh, not when we want to celebrate.

Celebrate?

That's right.

It's not every night I could ask for my baby's hand.

You can open it.

What?

Yep.

Can you believe this?

And you said yes.

I'm so happy, sweetheart.

I mean, what?

Surprise?

Like,

it's very upsetting.

When she said, I'm not going to go to school, I'll just get married.

I thought that was a good thing.

This movie is dark.

Like, there's a lot of dark stuff.

And compared to what Jason said earlier, when a movie opens up with this montage of fun 80s high school, where it's like, hey, you know, all the groups.

The weird walking kids.

Oh, the big boombox people.

Because they all had heightening of big boomboxes.

The breakdancers.

And it's like, oh, you know, the snap bracelet girls.

It's like, like, we're building on this kind of fun high school.

And then the next thing is like these tough girls talking about dicks and people getting stabbed.

Like, there are some, like, there are some turns.

Like I said, this movie is like that heightened quick.

Like, we did, like, we get out of the fun high school immediately.

Well, it really is like, you know, like the, these kids are dealing with not just the machinations of high school itself, because you almost never see them in class or doing any of that.

What you are seeing is them engaging in life or death battles.

Like, like the locker room scene, I mentioned it earlier, where all of the bad guys, the bully guys, load up towels full of combination lockers or locks, rather, keys

to defeat items.

Spader

was

so savage and brutal that I was like, he would not survive this.

These would break his skull.

But James Spader also, like, and this is what was upsetting about the movie.

Like, yes, I understand at the end, you know, spoiler alert, he, you know, he saves, he doesn't see, he doesn't save the day.

He just escapes with his life and accidentally kind of kills the other guy.

I was waiting for him to go like full Hulk.

Like, I wanted him to be like, now you've pissed me off.

But like, people just whip out guns in this movie.

Like, guns are out.

Like, there are a lot of just like, but he never does anything clever or cool.

And you, I don't feel like triumphant that he kills this kid.

Like, you wanted to see him beat their asses, but every time he gets like one step ahead, he gets caught and just beat down.

Like, it's really like the movie is very bifurcated in that sense because it is like up tempo, new wave dance.

This is a dance scene.

We're gonna, we're gonna have an RB band, they're gonna dance and be together, and then juxtaposed with like savage fight,

like brutal fight that ends up with his dad getting shot, cut to teenagers having sex, you know, and you're like, whoa, wait a minute.

What is, what is, I don't know if this is a teen movie or if this is like the Warriors, you know?

But then I also thought, then this is where I'm going to also just be very honest and say, I also had a couple thoughts where I'm like, man, the 80s must have been fun as hell.

Because when you look at these people dancing, it's like, you look at, you got rich kids, you got punks, you got break dancers.

Every one of those scenes were like true representations of the movies.

So you're saying that part got it.

They nailed that part.

You liked that everyone was dancing.

I just like young, rich, poor.

I just like that it was sort of like

dancing brought everybody together.

Like they all liked the same kind of music, but also it was sort of like, hey, you dress like that, you dress like that.

Because some people are dancing like a court.

Like they've like, it was almost like 80s.

I don't think that there was that kind of group community dancing.

I don't think so.

You also, they seem to live in a world in which whatever location they arrive at, there's a band playing and everyone's dancing.

It doesn't matter what age bracket.

It doesn't matter.

Like when they are, when they go to the country club, which is full of old people, there's still a band, a new wave band, playing Twist and Shout, and everybody's up dancing during lunch at like the Beverly Hills Country Club.

So was it a weekend?

I don't know.

But so, oh, God, I was so upset when they're getting, when Spader's kind of prepping everybody to to go into the country club and giving them like makeshift, you know, makeovers to get them.

Preppy.

Yeah.

I was so upset to see Kim Richards take that mane and

like tie it on itself multiple times.

Like she took her hair and made a ponytail.

Like it was so distressing to me.

I still,

I don't know that we spent enough time on that hair.

Well, the hair is like

its own character.

Yes, it is.

It has, it has, it's making choices.

The hair

is making acting choices.

Honestly, it was.

By the way, it's a very malignant kind of hairstyle.

Like,

you wouldn't surprise me if she had it.

I'll give this.

I'll give her hair this.

It is so long that, I mean, usually like when someone's hair is that long,

I would say about a foot of it is split ends at the bottom, but it did look pretty healthy.

Well, I'm gonna say, I'm just gonna like open this up for everybody.

If you want to imagine how long her hair is, I'm looking at a picture right now, it is obviously from her head, past her.

That's the kind of hair that starts in her hair.

That's good, good to know.

As someone without a lot of hair, I gotta start there.

And it goes past her waist.

It is like it is almost down to, like, I'm looking at it here.

I would say if you put your thumb and forefinger, like if you put your thumb on your uh, your belt, what is it?

Then

they would be about that.

If you put your thumb on your belt and then

dropped your forefinger down,

what and dropped your finger down?

Like, yeah, just drop your finger down.

That's how long the hair is.

You put your thumb, okay, you put your thumb on your belt, you drop your finger down.

That's how long your hair is.

Here's the thing, too.

The reason why.

You know, the classic measurement of thumb in, belt, finger down.

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So, here's what's also so crazy about the hair.

So, at one point, I'm looking at hair, and I'm like, if she didn't have bangs, and also if she wasn't wearing the hair in a way so that the top also went up, like she has about like two inches going up, would it look as long?

You know, because that's the other piece of it is that yes, it's really long hair.

It's also crimped, but then there's also this other hair around her face that's big.

That's a different framing device.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

It's not like cascading on either side, split in the middle, parted in the middle or something, framing her face.

There are wispy bangs going down.

This is a classic 80s.

Wispy bangs going down, wispy bangs going up.

We're looking at a picture still from the movie Behind Paul, and both of the women in the picture.

have that, you know, claw going, claw of hair going down, claw of hair going down.

Which, by the way, I did.

I did that in everybody.

everybody sprayed and i was like this looks fucking great like i've never looked better by the way another reason why i like this movie and i think it was shocking to me but when we are looking at these women like not only do they look good i mean these are tough girls but they're also just eating hamburgers i haven't seen a girl in a movie like eat it like just go to town on hamburgers and then kim richards like shoves that hamburger in her face i don't know like this scene like just seeing girls just like eating burgers like there's like their and i don't know why like it seems so foreign to me.

I'm like, I don't see that in movies.

I don't see this like

challenge.

Like, all the way to, like, I loved.

all of the outfits in this movie.

It would, like, this was, this movie was, I think, one of the best versions of

like 80s style that we've watched.

You know, like some of the other ones that we've recently done, like Attack of the Rock Aliens or whatever, they really go for it, you know, in a way.

And these felt like,

this felt like me in high school or junior high in high school.

This felt like these felt like ordinary 80s clothes, you know.

I mean, even though they're

crazy, I think they're trying to show that they are less well off, right?

Because I think so, too.

You know, I think that a lot of the 80s stuff that we see, it's like, oh, these are not rich kids, but they are like they have a little bit more money.

I mean, this is supposed to be the poor side of town.

Yeah, and I'm not gonna lie, at one point early on in the movie, it was actually before I realized it was Kim Richards.

I thought she had a face tattoo.

I thought that that thing

on her head before four

so close to her face.

And it was so thin.

Yeah.

It was such a thin headband that she's wearing early on.

I could see that.

Yeah.

Well, I wanted to ask you about this too, like about their wealth, because I think that they are trying to make a statement about class in here as well.

But there is like this idea where it's like, are they that poor that Robert Downey Jr.

needs to save that loaf of bread that he puts down his pants?

Like, because at one point, Robert Downey Jr.

puts a giant baguette down in his pants, and then the

country club representative, who's very suspicious of them, pulls it out and then places it back down on the buffet table.

Back on the buffet.

Whoa, that really got me.

But I'm also like, is he surprised?

Meanwhile, what if the other girls,

not Kim Rich's, but the other woman in the gang, is just grabbing fistfuls of like buffet, like shrimp and whatever, and like putting them in her purse?

It is very funny.

I mean, it's, I think your point, though, Paul is like, well, can they not afford food?

Right.

You know, and

I think they're just doing what they can.

They're just making do.

And I think it's fun to

crash a party and steal a bunch of food.

Totally.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, my dad used to do that at cocktail parties.

Kim Richards' dad seems to own a convenience store.

Her mother has passed away, we find out.

Obviously, the rest of the gang members are in and out of jail.

They seem to be very badly off.

Robert Downey Jr., we see where he lives.

Let me know, Jason.

That's not.

Yeah, I wanted to say one thing about Kim Richards and her mom because I always find in a lot of these,

a lot of teen dramas, like you see

either a boy loses his mom or a girl loses her dad.

But it was very nice to see that a...

that a girl had lost her mom and to establish like that grief because I don't think it's portrayed often in movies.

And

she is clearly, I mean, this is the thing about the movie, it's so weird because I was like, oh, what an interesting choice to give her that because to me, it explains so much of her behavior.

Right.

You know, smashing the hamburger into her friend's face, being in this like totally toxic relationship, but also wanting like the safety and security of Morgan.

And like, it was so, it was such a good choice for her.

And it made made me really care about her, even though I didn't understand why she was so mad at Morgan's mom for just bringing it up.

Yeah,

I mean, but also, like, I could chalk that up to just

a 80s teen history on it.

She's a teenager, but there are moments like that in this movie where you do,

or at least I found like there, there are really interesting, weird choices that are unexpected that I really liked.

And then there's just

a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense.

Well, that's the, I was gonna say, like, I think it's, I think this movie does both.

This movie is constantly making wild choices or interesting choices, some of which work and make the movie actually quite a bit better than I might have thought it would be.

And then some of them are just like head scratchers.

Like, whoa, why did you take this this far?

Now it's very hard to enjoy the more high school level stakes of the movie once I realize people can be shot, you know, like once I realize, like, because that's not even at the end of the movie, like, they shoot his dad, like, pretty at the beginning of like the, at the end of Act Two.

Well, let me ask you this, though.

The choice on James Spader's part, as soon as he, him and Frankie sort of make a connection after the country club, to immediately want to take her, not on a date, not to a restaurant, not to like get to know her better, but take her home to his parents

and sit her down at a family dinner.

That's straight up Rebel Without a Cause, by the way.

Like, that is, that is, you're right.

Like, this movie has so many legit parallel scenes.

Yeah.

So, I don't think that there was any reason for it, but in Rebel Without a Cause, maybe it makes more sense.

Here it doesn't.

No, it doesn't.

And it also especially doesn't because he has such an already established antagonistic relationship with those parents.

So, you know, he never wants to be home.

So, why is he?

You know what I mean?

Like, why?

But I think you're right.

They are just,

this movie is full of references to other, other things.

But it's also like, here's the thing that's so weird.

Rebel Without a Cause,

there is a class difference.

There is no class difference between

any of these characters.

They all seem to be roughly in the same thing, except for Robert Downey's character, who his brother like has Dobermans and runs a repair shop.

I mean, when Robert Downey Jr.,

when Robert Downey Jr.

comes in to save the day with two rogue Dobermans, like, he's like, crazy.

I'm here to help you.

I'm afraid of the movie.

I mean, it was amazing.

And releases Dobermans upon the bad guys to bite their arms.

I just wish the Dobermans had been introduced earlier and more effectively because

I would have been on my feet screaming.

Like, I was so excited to see them come in, even without having any setup or connection to him.

Oh, yeah.

The fact that he arrives and is like, hey, and like,

and it's like, here's backup and two dogs.

Great.

I loved it.

But I agree, like, I would have loved it more if those had, if that had been established better, if that, if there had been a little bit more legwork to that.

Also, if you're spader, like, you are fine to get those guys arrested when you can frame them for stealing a car, but you know they're going to be at the warehouse whatever o'clock.

Why not send the police there to arrest the people who shot your father, who

attempted attempted to murder your father.

Like, I don't, I can't figure that out.

By the way, the dad, the dad kicked some serious ass.

Oh, I was so proud of the dad.

Yeah, the dad was great.

The dad knew that.

Like hell, that, that dad,

I have a lot of respect for that dad.

I know I made fun of his platitudes, and I know I'm going to slam him in just a second.

But that guy was studying real estate.

Because here's my issue.

This guy, he's what is, he's trying to drive a cab or is he trying to read the newspaper?

Because when we see him, he's got the newspaper laid out like he's in New York City reading it on the hood of the cab in the middle of the night.

Like,

like, do some work.

This is not an Uber world.

Like, first of all, don't take the night shifts.

Hadn't started yet.

I think there is something.

You don't want to go out there or, you know, the day shift workers might still be on.

Like, you don't want to grab someone else's fare.

You also don't want to waste gas, you know, I guess.

I mean,

idling, just open up that baby.

Nothing tells me more I'm unavailable than opening up a newspaper on the hood of the vehicle that you are using to perform your business.

I also had a great amount of respect for the dad.

I thought, you know what?

He was, I don't know what happened with that business.

I really don't.

And, but he is trying to make some money.

And why does the brother not help more?

It since that the brother is doing well.

Yeah, why not?

Why doesn't the brother like take some money from his shoulder sweater budget and give it to the folks?

By the way,

I did like the two brothers at each other because it was just a lot of white.

It was like, I'll have a yellow shirt on with a white top.

I'll have a white top on with a yellow shirt.

So many pastels on rich people in the 80s.

And by the way, the principal was a great character that they really set up, and then he never came back to drink that.

The movie couldn't decide whether it wanted to occur during high school or not.

And they kept really struggling with that in a way that it was a bummer.

I really, because, I mean, for the most part, this high school gang, Nick and the bad guys, they seem to really mostly be concerned with beating up dads.

They beat up

and shoot

James Spader's dad.

Then, in a rage, this guy gives such a good rage-filled performance.

He goes into Kim Richards' father's corner store and basically body slams

the old man and Kim Richards.

He basically goes in there and like WWE's the whole place.

It's really

nuts.

Okay, so so it's and this is again, like, the movie like steps over these lines because you think, oh, yeah, he's just, he's like a high school bully, you know, gang leader.

And then you're like, oh, no, he's a psychopath killer.

Who has, who is a, who is a grown man.

Yeah.

That's the thing that happens when you cast people who are actually adults to play high school kids.

When they start doing the violence at the level of adults, you're like, the dissonance between, wait, I thought these were kids.

And you're like, oh, no, this is a 27-year-old man suplexing an elderly gentleman.

And I will say,

he picks Kim Richards up and throws her to the ground.

And I was like, very upsetting.

It was very upsetting.

And you know what it was about that movie too?

It's like the stunts, I mean, there's one or two bigger stunts, like when the billboard falls on somebody, and then when the main bad guy falls off the ledge.

But for the most part,

it felt to me like the violence was

painful.

Like it it wasn't like a movie violence where it's like, oh, I'm falling off the Sears Tower.

It's more like, I just fell eight feet, but I fucked up my neck.

Like, my collarbone is broken.

Like, the damage felt weird.

And then the movie ends with, like, you feel dirty, like people were hurt, and then cut to.

Like, I think I want to know how many casualties there were in that warehouse because I know Nick is dead.

Nick appears to be dead.

Robert Downey Jr.

got shot in that part of your leg where it's like, if you get shot there, you can bleed out.

I mean, he's

he definitely was shot in his femoral artery.

Yeah, and you can see he's like, he basically has bled out.

And the dog comes up and like seems to bring him something to tie a tourniquet with.

That's what I'm doing.

I couldn't figure that out.

I was like, is the dog helping?

Are these dogs like medical professionals?

Those dogs were incredible and

saved the day, you know.

I mean, by the way, that's what that's why I'm mad about this movie.

I know.

Why can't James Spader save the day?

Like, I want him

triumphant to have those two Dobermans appear.

And I felt like a swelling in my heart when they came in.

And I was so excited to see them do their thing.

And I didn't feel that at all.

By the way, I will say, don't you feel that Dobermans are such an 80s scary dog?

Like, we don't hear that much about Dobermans being attacking anyone anymore.

But in the 80s, it's like, oh, God, they got Dobermans.

Dobermans.

It was terrifying.

Zeus and Apollo on Magnum Pia.

That's right.

The neighbors are across the street from us had a Doberman and they would have him on like this very long chain

and from the house, but the chain.

The way it worked, like he, if you started to walk down the sidewalk, he would start racing toward you and like just stop right before he got you.

Oh, God.

It was absolutely terrifying.

I do want to talk about like some other terrifying things here.

And I know we mentioned it before.

Could we just go back to Robert Downey Jr.

chasing James Spader with the car?

We don't know it's Robert Downey Jr., but James Spader is like waiting on a bus stop.

He's having like a very like music video moment where he's like grabbing like the like a stanchion of like a bus sign.

He's like, oh, I'm so conflicted, sitting, moping, but it's like very much like music should be playing under it, like the music, Voyager the Rock Aliens music, which I'm always up for.

And by the way, just came out in Vinegar Syndrome as a pristine DVD, which I bought.

But then this car, like one of the bad guys' cars, spots him and starts chasing him.

And James Spader's running and he's throwing shit at it.

And the core, the car is like bashing him into a corner.

And James Spader's about to jump over like a barbed wire fence and he can't get up and he's going to get, you know, hurt.

And then like Robert Downey Jr.

pops out.

He's like, gotcha.

I was like, that's not good, man.

Yeah.

I will say this.

This kind of speaks to what we were talking about earlier in this way, that like Spader, and I'm certain he's young when he made this.

You know, he's a, you know,

he's young in the movie.

He's playing a high school person.

Spader, to me, doesn't appear to ever be a character who has parents or who has a family or who feels tethered to anything.

He is...

like

in everything,

like

an individual only, right?

So much so that in the scene where he and Kim Richards, right before they have sex,

she is talking about all she keeps hearing is the sound of the gun going off and the shooting and the gun and the blah blah blah.

And she gets to have this whole breakdown where she's reacting to the gun violence that she witnessed and was a part of.

And he never is like, That was my father that was shot.

Like he, he has

not experiencing

much more connected to his she is having a complete emotional arc based on the events that were that led to and were a part of his father's shooting.

And he is completely

not uninterested, but he's really unaffected in a weird way.

It's very strange.

It's a weird.

But I think that there's a plot.

I mean, God knows where it was cut out because the movie is almost two hours.

Like, there needed to be something else here.

Like, did the dad do something?

Like, it's like, like, I could understand that the dad gambled their money away, did something where he lost respect for his parents, but you don't even get that.

You don't get anything.

The dad just looks like

a lumpy mess of a guy until he gets, you know, fighting out.

He's like a Harry Dean Stanton.

Yes, I want a Harry Dean Stanton.

But, Paul, you seem to be like so back and forth on the dad.

Like, one minute you're proud of him, and then the next one.

I know, I know.

I'm very conflicted about this, Dad, because I do feel like,

I just, I guess what I'm saying is the dad looks beaten down, and I'm like God and he can't even get the love of his son it would only make sense if the dad brought it upon himself I guess and that's what I'm trying to like I'm feeling I'm missing one part of it no the son what's crazy is Spader feels no guilt right like the scene where Kim Richards is like she feels guilt for being part of this shooting he

Spader feels nothing, even though it's his relationship with Kim and his continuous

antagonizing of the gang that has caused the gang to get revenge on him.

You know what I mean?

Like that, it's he is, he is into, his father was assaulted and shot because of Spader's actions, you know?

I mean, not Spader didn't know that they would take it this far.

Well, but I mean,

but he keeps on antagonizing them.

He never stops, and there's no reason for it.

Like, there's just no reason for that.

Why do you think he's antagonizing them?

Because they wrecked his bike.

Oh, I think, yes, but I think he starts antagonizing them just because I think he's a, I think he sees them trying to rob that guy.

And I think he thinks, I think he knows they are in that moment bullies or

gang or whatever.

They're upset with him now because he is going after Frankie.

Well, no, but it's kind of a threefold thing, right?

Because it's like it starts off where he foils their robbery.

Then the next day, they where they were each going to make roughly $3.

Right.

So they foil the $3 robbery.

Then they get his bike and destroy it.

So now he's mad.

So then he steals a car and concocts a pretty elaborate scenario where then he gets them to take his car as a collateral.

And then

I didn't think, I thought he came up with that kind of in the moment.

No, when he saw the car on the side of the road, he was like, got it.

And

he went in there to dance with Kim to get them that mad so they would steal the car.

Wow, that's a good one.

So they back then get him arrested.

So then they get arrested.

And then the next morning, he finds a dead rat in his locker and is like

a squirrel.

Oh, maybe it's a squirrel, dead something.

It was pretty, and that was also very

first of another moment of like the violence is

too much for women.

And then I think the next moment is

the guy gets out of jail, sees him with his girl, and now he's like, now we're going to go beat him up in the gym.

And I just want to call one thing about that gym.

And I, and I, as someone who's been to many a gym

and seen lockers I really appreciated that the lockers there were drawers I thought drawers is such a better way to do a locker interesting instead of a long locker I like the drawer idea yeah I thought that that was an interesting way of doing things anyway I think you need a long locker so that you can hang a towel inside well why are you hanging out to hang a towel I mean this is in high school in high school you needed to have a towel in your locker so that you could wait when you had to take a shower wait wait but you wait first of all you took a shower in high school like I mean like you were you had to

they made you after gym

after gym class they made

back so dirty dirty

yeah we did too our showers never rained

but I was like I would never have I would never take off my showers there no no no no no wait but so you're your towel like so you keep a towel in your locker and then like next week when you go back to gym it's like that towel has dried out that towel is dry okay yeah oh you don't throw it into a general wash wow That I'm also going to be able to do that.

And it's a towel you bring from home.

Okay.

Yeah, but then that you, you're putting a wet towel back into a tiny area.

Like that can't be great either.

No, no, no, no, no.

I'm sure it's bad.

It's very bad.

So, but here's my thing.

Like, because I've thought about this before.

When I go to a spa, the robe is always hanging up, but then I have to.

You're wearing it.

Well, yeah, I put the robe on, but I take off my clothes and put them in the locker, but I always end up just folding them and trying to put them down.

There's nothing to hang, is what I'm saying.

And so it seems like, like, I've had that thought.

I like a drawer.

I mean, I never even thought of a drawer, but I'm kind of like, yeah, because it's so much extra space.

Now, I just stayed at a hotel in Williamsburg and

very deep closet,

no drawers, not a single one.

I hate that.

Oh, I'm going to make a controversial statement.

I never use drawers.

What?

When I go to a hotel, when I, if I unpack, unpack, I unpack onto like a shelf, or I want to be able to see what I have.

I want to be able to see it.

Don't you afraid of like the housekeeping coming in and looking at your undies?

No.

You should be because I went on.

Do you think they're looking at my undies?

Yes.

I went on a carnival cruise when I was in high school.

Okay.

And in the middle of dinner, I went back to the room to grab something.

And I walked in and there was a gentleman holding my underwear.

What?

What?

Yes.

Wait, I don't know if I've heard this story.

Yep.

What are you taught?

And what transpired?

I closed the door and I walked out.

Oh, wow.

And did you tell your parents or did you do anything?

I never spoke about it.

Wow.

Wow.

Did you ever see that gentleman again?

I don't think so,

but I was like, did you ever see that underwear again?

No, I remember.

I was like, because I remember what it looked like.

And

I don't know what I did with it.

I must, I think I like put it in my suitcase or something, but I also like I did have to wear the rest of my underwear and couldn't explain to my parents.

Like,

I know someone, because I was too, I, of course, was embarrassed and didn't want to tell my parents that someone was holding my underwear.

I mean, that is walking crazy.

That's why Paul brings up a good point.

Like, to have them out and about, you are kind of asking for it, Jason.

Yeah, I guess I'm asking for somebody to just

peep through my

side.

Why don't you want to put them in drawers?

I'm so confounded.

I think the drawers are dirty.

Oh.

I think people are putting dirty clothes in those drawers and nobody ever washes the drawers.

Well, of course they're not going to wash the drawer, but yeah, I hear what you're saying.

I think people use like hotel drawers as hampers and they put their dirty clothes in them.

I do.

So I don't want to put my clean

one of them.

So I don't know which one you were using as a hamper.

And I'll never tell.

So it's like, it's the same as

the pocket in the seat on the airplane in front of you, the back pocket where you put people.

You know, I can't, I don't know.

Somebody probably just had a dirty diaper in there.

Now I'm like, I'm going to put my phone and my book in there and then like give me, get like, that's the dirtiest place in the world.

Like it's a dark drawer that's full of potentially bacteria that I'm like not going to throw my clean clothes in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now I'm so upset about everything.

I can't take that on.

I'll bring a Lysaw wipe and I

got to put stuff in the drawers.

I'm sorry.

i also will frequently i also will frequently just live out of my suitcase

see that

settling yeah sometimes i do but often i like to

i know i i understand the minute i get into a room i like to fully unpack so i can feel like i am

in the next i'm in the zone now like i'm in this place but i hear what you're saying i don't think

we're going on tour paul will you do you think you'll unpack in every city no definitely not because that's too short we're going i mean we're we're popping.

I mean, this tour

is intense.

Yeah, this is like, I don't, I barely want to move anything.

I almost want to pick an outfit for the live show that I get into right before the live show and get out of after the live show and just recycle that out.

Get ready because it's going to be,

how we ended up with this, I do not know.

In the middle of August, we are going to Texas and Louisiana.

Oh, it's going to be 100 degrees with 200% humidity.

It's going to be disgusting.

I remember being in Louisiana, shooting a movie down there, and it was like May 2nd.

They're like, ooh, you better get out because by the time it gets to the 5th, it's oppressive.

And I was like, and it was, it was awful.

And I think that, yeah, I think the locals all leave.

I think everyone leaves.

Yeah.

And we're like, we're coming to your time.

We're coming.

NOLA, welcome us with open arms.

That's why we need some of that Detroit energy, Indianapolis energy.

And by the way, I know that we've announced at the top of the show, but we do have a live virtual show coming up.

So if you can't make the tour, that is at the, just go to uh the momenthouse.com slash hdtgm if you can't remember that just go to hdtgm.com and we'll announce the movie and it'll be a live show so uh everyone in london and stuff uh

i know we were talking a lot about this movie i want to bring up something from last week's movie i'll bring that up at the end but i think it might now be time for second opinions what's up jerks

I need a second, I need a second opinion that my system outside you're giving me gave it the villainy holes in the story.

You thought that this was your moment in glory, you thought that this was pretty.

You thought we wouldn't be laughing at these.

Haters, prosthetics, and lives, I mean, wasn't surrounded by kids, I mean, was that about a sick you did?

I mean, maybe it wasn't for me, maybe a few other people agree.

Maybe the internet loved it.

Let's see.

All

right, so

thank you for that amazing second opinion theme.

Here's the deal, people.

Tough Turf has

78% of five-star reviews.

I mean, that's a pretty

high volume.

And I have to say, if I'm not surprised, yeah.

I'm not surprised.

Only 4% are one star and there are a lot of Marvel Avenger fans here because of the Easter egg in this movie which is there's graffiti on one of the walls that says the new Avengers and Robert Downey Jr.

stands in front of it and people think that that's

interesting and and obviously James Spader played Ultron so this is a this is a prequel to Avengers here we are

isn't that interesting like those two guys have like been working together in some capacity even if it is

that's so amazing.

It's cool.

Yeah, I love that.

By the way, this is where they became friends.

And then Robert Downey Jr.

named

his cat Jimmy in honor of James Spader.

Oh, wow.

By the way, I will say that there are moments, like I, again,

fan of James Spader, like James Spader.

But as a 25-year-old man, which is what he is in this movie, there are moments where if I close my eyes, I'm like, this is blacklist James Spader.

Like, this is right.

Like, they're like, he delivers some lines just like now, James Spader.

Would you guys be surprised to find out that the blacklist is still on?

Oh, I know, because our good friend Connor Ratliff

has been on it.

He came on our Twitch show, the one that Hubel and I do, and he told us this.

Connor had to have like a parakeet in a scene.

And the way he described it, and you can check it out.

It's online.

We have it up.

The way he describes like

the acting style of james spader it's like seen it all been there and he was like the the the idea was that the the parakeet was supposed to go up his arm and like land on his big bald head and uh and and he was like okay clearly this is not working what we're gonna do is i'm going to place the bird here we're gonna do one take of it and then we are going to move on and it was like just very like

like just i'm not surprised by that giving the right stuff but he's like we're not wasting time yeah let's not fuck around and uh he basically yeah

Has the blacklist been on for 15 years?

I mean, how long?

I think it's been on for something close to that.

Yeah, I'm going to Google it right now.

It's like Gray's Anatomy, which also is still on the air at season like 19.

Well, I mean, like, that show Supernatural has been on forever as well.

Like, is it still on?

I think that's finally done.

But, but that, that was on for, and like, you look at the, oh, my God, that was on for over a decade.

So the blacklist started in 2013.

And it is still on the air.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So it's, it's 10 years.

It's about 10 years.

But that's that's 10 years, a decade, a decade of the blacklist.

I can't believe that.

After he was already on Boston Legal for however long that was on.

By the way, it's my understanding of the blacklist that it was about this woman.

And they had to bring in a Hannibal Lecter type of character, Red Reddington.

That's James Spader.

And James Spader was like a Lecter.

His name is Red Reddington.

Oh, yes.

What is his name?

This is my favorite thing.

Red Reddington.

Red Reddington.

So they bring in Red Reddington to like help them solve these bigger crimes because he's like this Hannibal Ector genius and then at a certain point they're like Yeah, we don't care about that girl anymore now the show is straight up James Spader is solving crimes like he's like he used to be like we visit him in the jail and he talks to them now he's like out and about running a whole team like the show completely reconfigured around red reddington like it is wild that like yeah

wow that's like, that's a, that's a first draft name.

Yeah.

And by the way, they for their COVID episode, they just did an animated one.

Whoa, really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because they're like, oh, we, we have all the,

yeah, they have done some interesting stuff.

Like Connor, again, walk me through all the blacklist.

There's an episode of Dead Eyes, Connor's podcast, all about all of the times he's auditioned for the blacklist, for all the different parts.

He, he talks about all the different parts he's auditioned for and didn't get, and then talks to all the actors who did get those parts on the blacklist.

So it's a great, the series is incredible.

And by the way, just so you know, if you can't get enough of the nine seasons of the blacklist, you can check out their novels.

There are blacklist novels.

Wait, that are

the blacklist based on the novels or

the other way.

So now

you can follow Red Reddington's adventures in print?

Yes.

Oh, boy.

Wow.

I know what the rest of my summer is going to be.

I'll know what I'll be reading on tour.

Blacklist, The Beekeeper, number 59.

The Ring, number 69.

I think he's trying to take down the Blacklist.

I don't know.

But anyway, these are five-star reviews, and they're not great.

I'm going to just be honest.

The five-star reviews here are

just very positive.

This one is from Frank Tire God.

Frank Tire God, maybe this is Robert Downey, his brother, who works on cars.

Frank Tire God says, early James Spader and Robert Downey, I am old.

I remember when this movie was a coming attraction and I actually saw it in a theater.

Five stars.

So not really anything about the acting, just the fact that he remembers it, gives himself five stars in a weird way.

This one from Helen Damn Nation, she writes, James Spader and Robert Downey Jr.

are deliciously hot.

And at age 13, I thought Kim Richards must have been the most woman in the world.

I think probably the most beautiful woman in the world.

I wish I knew why this one wasn't as popular as the other 80s films, but I enjoy introducing it to people.

Five stars.

We walk the night.

Great music drops in this.

Like, there is so many good songs that are

great that I'd either never heard or was like, what is this?

And then this one I really like from Mike H.

Great film.

And I still watch it from time to time.

I'm in my mid to late 40s.

Hate to say it, but it reminds me a lot of my own high school upbringing.

Five stars.

True words.

True words.

I felt the same.

You know?

And then

this one, which I just like because why not?

From Scott Spinach.

The Turf is Tough.

Yeah.

Okay.

Any relationship with Red Rennington?

Oh, I don't know.

Scott's Bins.

You know, Scotty Spins.

This one is maybe just one visually that I like because this is the Turf is Tough T-O-U-G-H.

I'm sorry.

I mean, tough T-U-F-F.

F.

That's the whole

five star.

That's amazing.

But

Tough Turf.

I mean, it's

one of the things that I had to like search for it on Amazon.

By the way, I woke up, Jason, just so you know, at 4:50 in the morning to watch this.

Wild.

What are you talking about?

I had to fly back from New York yesterday, and I was like, Paul was watching it last night, and I was on a different time.

I was like, I can't stay awake.

Oh, my God.

Last night, I'm just going to wake up early so it was really wild to like get up and like get coffee and sit and like drink water because i'm so dehydrated and watched this movie but i was searching for like two hours for two hours it was so long my children woke up and i was like you can't watch this with me like go on your ipads but i um but i had to at like 4 50 search for tough turf and i had knew it in my head but i couldn't find my phone or anything to look at how that was spelled.

Yeah.

And it's such a wild

name to search for because it's not exactly what you think.

It's spelt in the air.

It's a little different.

By the way, I'm finding more blacklist facts as we're talking here.

There are 10 issues of a comic series of the blacklist.

It has produced novels, comics, TV shows.

I bet you there has to be a blacklist.

I'm sure there is.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a blacklist spin-off.

Or maybe they've tried and it just didn't work.

I don't know.

Oh, there's so many blacklist podcasts.

Believe in the blacklist.

The blacklist podcast.

The blacklist.

I guess I meant like a sanctioned.

No, no,

there are sanctions.

These are fan ones, and it looks like there is one official one, but they all are pictures of Red Reddington.

And they are all, these are not, this is, this is, uh, this is it.

Uh, and the blacklist.

So many

blacklist exposed is the 2017 Academy of Podcasters award-winning TV and film podcast that looks at the world of Red Reddington and all of his criminal enterprises.

Wow.

Wow.

Oh, my God.

And then this one, there's another, that's the Blacklist Exposed.

Paul,

read and discover this information.

Listeners, I only wish you could see the unadulterated joy in Paul's face.

I just love when there's something like this that is like, like, you know what it is?

It's like there, whenever there's like a real nerdy culture around something that is, like, that is more mainstream, I love it.

I'm like, oh, wow, you have, like, you don't get this for Chicago Fire, no offense to Chicago Fire.

You know, it's like even Lawn Order can't pull this off.

Yes, the deep, it's, it is really interesting to think about, and I'd love to hear from our audience,

how many of you are blacklist watchers, right?

How many people,

how many millions and millions of people must to have kept it on the air on network TV for this long?

It must be massively popular.

So to think that I today,

what at June 30th, 2022, heard the name Red Reddington for the first time?

For other people, they've spent a decade in the trenches with Red Reddington.

Just in the trenches.

They grew up with him.

They listened to the podcast.

They grew up.

Yeah.

They were like, I started watching Red Reddington in high school and now I have a child.

I'm in my 20s.

You know, like their lives, like, well, you know, it's shocking.

We've been doing how did this get made longer than

the blacklist.

Just barely, just barely.

Yes, by the way, the blacklist is getting about 3 million viewers an episode, which in this day and age is pretty high.

And for a show that long in the tooth, it's incredibly high.

This is what I always think about.

And I'm looking at all these lists of TV shows that have been on for a very long time, and there's tremendous.

And, you know, and I think about like John Francis Daly, great funny guy, great writer, who was on that David Boreanis show,

Bones.

And he was the jargon guy.

He was the funny lab guy, like him and Carla Gallo.

Like really fun people.

But

I'm just thinking about this idea when you're on a show like Star Trek.

And you're that character and you got to put on the six hours of makeup every day.

Oh, well that and then

you're still doing it out.

I'm just to say, like, the warp drive is down.

Yes.

There's no easy in, easy out.

It's like I'm putting on Klingon makeup and I'm going.

I mean, that was the premise of our human giant sketch where my character was like warf on a show, and I was so upset about it that I got myself, I got surgically implanted into my skin, and then the show gets canceled.

And then I have to try to find work as an actor with like this fucked-up, unpainted Klingon face.

But, oh, so this is what I wanted to talk to you about.

So, we got a great call in the last episode of Last Books.

I saw

in Last

Keep this in.

Yeah.

That's the episode of

Last Looks.

That's what we call it.

Last Looks, okay.

Last Looks is what the mini episodes are now.

So, we got a phone call here, and this person brought up something that I

did not know.

Okay.

Let's play that.

Hi, Paul.

This is Lauren from San Francisco.

I have a mission for Until We Meet Again.

I was hoping you guys would mention the last shot of the movie, where Eddie shows up in the audience of Lisa's concerto performance.

It's the last half-second of the movie, he's shrouded in darkness, but he purposefully turns his head just enough before the movie fades to black so you can tell it's him.

And then she turns to look at him with a surprised look on her face.

What was the movie trying to do here?

Is this meant to tell us that he's back after all and they get a happy ending?

Does this concert take place in the afterlife where she and he are long since dead.

It's so perplexing to me.

I absolutely have to know what you think of it.

Thank you so much.

And until we meet again.

I don't remember.

I don't remember until we meet again.

The piano movie?

Did you look?

Well, I wrote it down and I was too nervous to say it because I was like, oh, now you're just going to see it.

You did notice it.

Because the camera does linger on a face in the audience.

And I was like, wait a second.

So this movie says that he did figure out a way to get back from the dead.

Like he is corporealized.

Or he was just, as a ghost, able able to go and watch her perform?

What do you think?

Oh, well, I mean, I thought the idea was that he couldn't go hang around it.

I don't know.

Yeah, that's it.

I agree.

Anyway, for all of us to kind of miss it and not be a big part of the.

Maybe I think it could have been directed a little bit better, but it is in there.

I didn't notice that.

First of all, I'm so confused.

I thought we were talking about the piano locksmith movie with Sean Qusa.

Oh, yeah, no.

Okay, the Piano, until we meet again, the ghost movie.

Yes.

Yes.

So Molly says that

he went to the afterlife but can come down to watch her play.

But he is corporeal.

Like he is taking up a seat in the seat.

Did he bought a seat?

I mean, it looks like he bought a seat.

I mean, it would be funny.

It would have been better if he had been sitting on someone's lap.

Yes.

You know, who didn't realize he was there.

And a lot of people bring it up to me, have brought it up to me, and I will acknowledge it that yes, I worked with Jackson Rathbone.

He was great.

He was in an NTSF episode.

He was really fantastic.

And

also

Spice is Real.

Spice is Real

as a

synthetic marijuana that caused a lot of problems for a lot of people.

So just a couple of things.

Well, you again, you said, I think somebody said that last week when we were, or last time when we were recording, someone said it in the chat.

So there's a lot of good apologies.

A lot of good last looks teases there.

Anyway,

wow.

We got to

bring it back to this movie for a brief second.

It really is like we talked about how this movie really vacillates jarringly between high school style kind of hijinks and ruthless violence.

No more, a better example than the final scene in the warehouse where Spader fights Nick, seems to kill him, and then it's hard cut to toe-tapping,

to toe-tap an RNB band.

Look at you.

Yeah.

And we cut back to live band dance sequences.

Well, by the way, the original end was them all taking the SATs and Kim Richards going, I'm not smart enough.

And then they kind of fade out on that, which is darker.

That was the original.

And so I think they just cut to this music number where they all seem like, like, Robert Denny Jr.

seems to not have seen James Spader.

Like, oh, we murdered that guy.

This is the first time we're getting together at the live band.

Yeah, I was like, I don't understand how you cut to this, this like red dress.

We're all dressed up, getting ready to have a dance again.

Like,

aren't they, mustn't they be haunted by what they've seen and done?

Or are bored by the police.

Anyway, I will say this.

Tough Turf came out in 1985.

It has a 17% of Rotten Tomatoes, but a 60% audience score, which is higher.

The log line is where enemies are made, reputations are earned, and love is the most risky affair of all.

Now, check it out.

The budget was 1.5.

Domestic gross was 9.3.

The top three movies of 85, Back to the Future, Beverly Hills Cop, and Rambo First Blood.

Now, this movie came in 104th place, but it was beaten by all these other How Did This Get Made movies, A View to Akill, Lady Hawk, Life Force, and this movie beat Break in Two, Jim Cotta,

and that Tom Selleck movie, Runaway.

So it wasn't

successful.

It was successful.

It did something.

I mean, it was successful, certainly.

It budgeted one point, whatever, and then it made nine.

I mean, and I bet it made money on video.

Yeah.

You know?

So tough nerve.

I can't believe I never saw this tough nerve.

Somebody was really up my butt online about doing this movie, and I'm glad that we did.

I mean, I would recommend it.

Would you both recommend it?

I would.

It is too long.

It is too long.

Absolutely too long.

I'm trying to think of a lot of people.

If you took out all the musical numbers.

If you took out all the musical numbers, it's an hour and 30 for sure.

Because there's like about five.

Because it's like there's not a lot of plot.

It's not boring.

It's like, but you do sit through the musical numbers.

Like, okay, Jim Carroll does like three songs, I feel like.

They play full songs.

If you fast forward when you see a live band, if you don't want, that's a good thing.

The music is good, though, too.

I was just going to say, the music is good, so I don't necessarily think you need need to do this, but that is areas you could fast forward because if they start playing a song, guess what?

They're going to play the full song.

And I will say that the songs are shot cool.

Like, they intercut them really interesting.

And by the way, you can get the whole Tough Turf soundtrack for only like $14 on Amazon.

Like, this movie looks good.

Like, again, it doesn't seem...

It's not like it's...

Tammy and the T-Rex.

No, you know, it was done well.

Or that Ed Burns dinosaur movie we just saw.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

You know, like, this movie feels akin to those 80s teen movies in a way that I was into.

You know, it just is too, too long.

Obviously, we're going on tour.

Go to httgm.com to find out where we'll be, but it'll be in August.

We're in the hottest cities.

We're coming up the Midwest.

Tell your friends about it.

Bring them all out.

If you can't make it out to the tour, come check us out live virtually.

All these shows are one of a kind.

A brand new movie, every single show.

We cut stuff out.

It is an experience.

We're not just getting on stage and talking into microphones.

I mean, we are, but we also are doing other things that give you a very unique experience.

Come on to the tour, please.

You know, get out there.

If I'm going to get on an airplane, you guys got to get in the seats.

Come on.

Yeah, that's, I mean, Jason, when I heard Jason on the Howard Stern wrap-up show this week, when you said I'm about a year behind everyone, I was like, People don't even understand what this means that you are going out on the road.

Like, support

support, Jason here.

All right, people, I want to give a big shout-out and a thank you to our producers, Cody Fisher and Molly Reynolds our engineer and maestro jack of all trades Devin Bryant our producer sitting in this week Matt Apodaka our publisher Deli Diaz of course our producer Averill Halley who found this movie gave it to us cut these clips Averil has been working overtime at finding all these movies for all these shows that we're trying to do and we can't be thankful enough Nate Kylie coming in hot giving us all the research at the last minute's notice I love this team that we we have.

And I also want to give a big thanks to the ghost of Craig D.

Nelson on Instagram, who does all of our amazing art, as well as Kyle Waldron.

You can find all of our episodes ad-free on Stitcher Premium.

But if you are a fan of the show, please follow us on Apple Podcasts, check out our cheap public store, and

most importantly, keep on telling your friends.

So we will see you next time.

Bye for now.

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