Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch

Hey everybody, and welcome back to IMO.

Today's episode is a little different than usual, and I think you're gonna love it.

Recently, I had the privilege of joining my dear friend, Miss Tina Knowles, on the very first stop of her nine-city book tour for her new best-selling memoir, Matriarch.

It's a beautiful and brave story of strong women, fierce mothering, and the power of continued evolution.

It's a deeply personal reflection on where she's come from, who she's become, and what it means to build a family rooted in love and legacy.

Our families have been close for years now, and I've always felt a special connection with the Knowles Carter family.

We've learned from one another and shared lots of memorable moments along the way.

And as mothers of strong, brilliant daughters who've grown up in the limelight, Tina and I have had more than a few conversations about what it means to raise grounded girls in a world that doesn't always give you that space to just be.

I've always admired Tina's wisdom, her grace, and that undeniable strength she carries.

So sitting down with her in Washington, D.C.

on stage with a vibrant live audience was more than an honor.

We talked about everything from her childhood in Galveston, Texas to how she became the matriarch we all know and love today

and what it means to own your story, especially as a black woman whose journey has inspired so many.

There were lots of laughs, and since this is IMO, plenty of life life advice along the way.

So today, I want to share our conversation with all of you, recorded on stage in DC.

So sit back and enjoy.

Here we go.

Y'all, aren't we excited?

Yes!

Y'all don't have to pretend like you are not just freaking out right now.

Oh, my goodness.

Not just on the bestsellers list, but number one.

Number one.

Look at this.

If y'all have not

bought your copy, please do because this is an amazing read.

Tina,

how does it feel to be number one?

It feels great.

Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

And

how are you feeling?

I mean, you're about to launch a nine-city tour.

And I know you're not comfortable in the spotlight.

You are used to being behind the scenes, making everybody else look good so I know this is a little uncomfortable for you y'all she doesn't know how to be the center of attention even though she looks like she knows

how does it feel to share your story with the world because let me tell you when I wrote becoming

I shared this

It's not about me, but what I'm saying is that, you know, I was all confident writing the book.

Yeah.

And then

the day it was coming out, I could not sleep because I thought, oh my God, I told everybody everything.

Everything.

That's right.

And I couldn't get to sleep.

And I was like, what if I made a horrible

scare?

Okay.

Same here.

I mean, I will call my kids and I'll be like, I think I talked too much.

And, you know, they were like, what did you put in there?

Because

I sent them their parts.

You know, but they didn't, I was like, they're too busy.

And plus, I was scared.

So I just held it from them.

But they were like what did you put in there and I I said I tried to just tell my story but sometimes your story includes other people so that's the it was scary I was up I've been up for days too I hear between that and cowboy Carter I have not had a story

say oh oh that oh that little project because it's not like you doing this and that right so you're still

leading the wardrobe on a big worldwide tour.

Yeah.

Are you crazy?

Well we didn't plan it that way but we want I wanted the book out for Mother's Day.

There you go.

And you know, but we have a

team.

Oh well.

We have an amazing team of stylists, so they got this.

That's so good.

Yeah.

That's so good.

And so the family is feeling good about the book as we can hear.

Nobody is

calling you going, Mama, what'd you say that for?

No, no, not yet.

I'm going to get the call though.

I know it already.

Well, to truly understand the Tina Knowles that we've come to love and respect and know, I love it that you

say that the reader's got to know your history.

And this is a quote.

You say, to keep me grounded, she, my mother, told me stories from our family history.

I listened to every single word she told me.

These people, my people, my ancestors and parents when they were young, were characters in a long drama that I am now part of.

Their struggles were not mine, but their lessons could be.

This was my

inheritance.

These stories that people had done their best to erase or degrade to keep us from passing them down so that we wouldn't know our history

or ourselves.

I want to ask you, Tina, why do you think it's important to know and tell your story, our stories?

Well, just because I think in your family, have you ever wondered where you got something from, where you got the strength to get through something, or where you got the, you know, that feeling of fear?

I mean, there are many things that I connected the dots on just looking at my ancestors and my grandparents.

You know, both of my great-grandmothers were enslaved, but they kept their kids with them.

So you know that that was a priority and you know what that had to take back then, but somehow they managed to do that.

And I just feel like that's such a strong thing.

So I know when times have been so, so rough for me, and I've been through a lot in my life,

that that's what got me through.

It's those ancestors, that strength, that we were just, you know, kick-ass women that hung in there and dealt with the obstacles.

Yeah.

And what would you say that we had a lot of folks of all ages, but what would you say here tonight?

What would you say to young people who don't know their stories?

I think that you should research it.

And there are, I mean, think about it for me, I'm 71 years old, so.

Let's just stop there.

Y'all,

this is what 71 looks like.

I'm sorry.

But I was just saying that, you know, back in my time, we didn't have ancestry.

Yes.com and all these resources that we have now.

And I remember starting that process like many years ago, maybe

14 years ago.

You did ancestry.

I did ancestry.

And I did, but I started first just looking back to say, you know, my mom has told me these stories about my mother's family.

She always told me stories about them and I knew their names.

I really didn't know my daddy's people.

And so I started being interested in where the name is actually buoyancy.

And it's, you know, where he came from and why is my name spelled b-e-y-i-n-c-e well someone did a store uh something on instagram that's a relative of mine i don't know him but there were like 17 spellings of that

and uh you know that happened to a lot of people in here you might think that was your original spelling but when you go back and look it's just changed especially with people of color because black people because we took on these other people's slave names and and we were called everything or

in my case, we weren't important enough for you to spell it right on my birth certificate.

So all of us have different spellings.

But it is important

for you to know where you came from and to pass that on to your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, because I never got to meet my grandmother.

And my children never got to meet their grandmother.

And so I started writing this book like when I got a divorce in like 19, I mean 19, look at at me, I'm aging myself.

And

it felt like it was that old.

Yeah, I was 50.

And you're right.

I was 59.

Let me say that because I don't know what year it was, but

I just

felt very

disconnected.

I felt old at 59, Lord have mercy.

This time it was 69.

Can you imagine?

but I just felt like my mark started thinking about mortality and I'm like what if my grandchildren don't get to meet me what not my great-grandchildren yes and how will they know because my mom's favorite thing was keep a word going and that meant tell the stories and keep keep your keep your messages keep your stories going generations down and in order to do that I had to start writing it so that's how I started just recording it yeah and I was able to go back to that, you know, when we started writing it.

So it doesn't take deep knowledge.

It just takes, you know, for you all out there, start, it is stories.

That's all it is.

It's the stuff you hear around the kitchen table.

You want to retain that, write that down, especially in a time when they are trying to erase our history.

So it is important.

to do what people are doing.

And I encourage everybody, you know, people ask me, what do you want people to leave with?

And that is what I want you to leave with.

That I never thought I'd publish a book.

And you don't have to publish a book.

Leave it for your great-grandchildren so that they can know your history and hear it from you.

Because, you know, your cousins will be like, oh, your mama, you know, she was over there doing this and that and the other.

Tell your own story.

Tell your own story.

Now, speaking of names, though, you didn't like your name.

No.

Tell us, tell us about you.

Tell us your real name.

Celestine, you said they called you everything.

Everything.

And then I had a last name like Beyoncé.

That was a lot of name for a little kid in the 50s.

You know, we didn't have these cool creative names.

I wanted my name to be Linda Smith.

Just Linda.

You just wanted a Linda.

Linda.

So tell the story about how you finally did change your name.

Well, my mama was in a hospital and my brothers had to take me to register me for school.

So I was like, please don't tell them my name is Celestine.

Please.

And they were like, we don't know what to do because they're going to look at your birth certificate.

And I said, just don't give it to them.

So we went in there and

we just said, our mama is in the hospital.

We all look real sad.

And we don't have the paperwork, but we promise we'll bring it back.

But it's so important.

to my mama that we get my little sister in school.

They didn't go along with it at first, but I was like begging and my brother Larry, who's a softy, he helped me out.

And I literally in fifth grade changed my name to Tina.

By the time we brought the paperwork, it was too late.

It was Tina, you are safe.

You have so many amazing stories about your childhood.

I just, you will fall in love with

the Galveston community that Miss Tina talks about.

But you describe your childhood in Galveston, Texas.

You say, this was abundance.

And y'all are going to recognize this, a game song with my best friend, a swing set bought on stamps, bulk-packed hot dogs, five-cent sodas, our own boat, and bread for the birds.

We shared what we had and felt like we had it to give.

My family was on pennies.

but we were living like millionaires.

Now,

doesn't that describe a lot of our upbringing?

Tell us about your neighborhood, about

that big community of people that you grew up in, that family of cousins and uncles and nephews and all of that.

Well,

I grew up in this area that was a working-class neighborhood.

And everybody was poor, so I don't think we knew.

And we had this backyard that they would say, oh, they have a huge backyard.

I went to that house with Beyoncé, and she was like, Mama, that is a huge backyard.

But to us, it was huge, and we had a swing set because my mama collected SNH green shelves.

I don't know what she said.

Right, they're too young.

The SH stamps, you lick them, your tongue would get all sticky, but you get the books and buy things.

I can't believe you all had enough to buy a swing set.

Oh, you know, all we could get was a toaster.

Listen, my mama was serious, and then she would take all of us, and my, I had eight, my sister had eight children, and we would all go and we would look so pitiful and say, do y'all want y'all stamps?

That people would be, that's how we get our Christmas presents,

which was true, but people would just give us stamps and we would just collect them.

And they got, we had ping-pong sets, croquette sets.

Like my mom, that was the playground for everyone.

She figured out a way to do everything.

But you said

all the kids would come to your backyard and your mother would, if you were going to go, when you describe having your own boat, explain what that meant.

It's the ferry, the free ferry.

But my mama would say, y'all want to go on our boat today?

And we'd be like, yeah.

And then I was sharing in the book that when I became a teenager, that was part of the Tina game.

Because I would take my boyfriends out there and sing to them and say, you want to go on my yacht?

And they get there and it was the free ferry.

You know.

But you always made room for everyone in the neighborhood, right?

So you

gather everybody up.

I love that.

Talk about that because, I mean, that I

spent a lot of time in the early chapters of your book because I feel like those stories, and I've known you, we've spent time together, but to really now get who you are, that sort of generosity of spirit, all of that, who you are, it really happened under that pecan tree in that backyard.

And I want because it's also when people see folks in the limelight, they make assumptions about where we're from and what we have.

And I think it's important for people to really know the real Tina.

Because

y'all had to make it through some tough times.

We did.

We had to make it through some tough times.

And it was so, you know, my sister had eight children.

My mom had seven, but five at home.

I remember my daddy getting what they call pennies, and that was unemployment.

It was $35.

Now, think about a family with seven people living in a two-bedroom house and getting $35 a week.

It was, you know, it was some really tough times, but it was so much fun.

fun.

Like, we just had so much fun, and we had so many kids around, and when you fought one, you had to fight everybody.

So, you know,

we played in that tree.

We had all these games, and we really didn't realize how poor we were until somebody told us, you know?

Right.

Yeah.

Do you remember your first fight?

Because I sure do.

Oh, yeah.

Because when you grow up in the neighborhood, at some point, you got to fight somebody just to be able to stay outside.

It was a girl.

Absolutely true.

You know?

And you had to stay outside because your mama put you outside.

So go outside until it gets ready to get dark and then come back in because there's no space.

And this girl, Bedina, I used to fight.

I mean, she used to,

she used to fight me.

She used to beat the crap out of me.

And my brother, I remember I broke my thumb and I had a cast on and he said, you got superpower.

It's superpowers in that cat.

And I went and hit Bedina.

I started a fight with her and just hit her.

Because sometimes you got to do that.

The Medinas of the world, sometimes you got to go jacking up.

That's right.

So I just want to keep her thrown off, right?

That's right.

But then she.

Mine was Dee Dee.

Dee Dee?

Yeah, I had.

So

why did Dee Dee Dee Dee Dee want you to be a little bit more dangerous?

Because she was always messing with me, right?

So it was one of those things, and I think I took her off guard because I just decided.

I decided in my little soul, I'm going to go beat Dee De up.

That's right.

So I went outside and we were just playing jump rope, and then I was like,

And see, you have the same story because you didn't even have a reason that day.

You waiting for her to bully you.

She gave me reasons many of the days.

That's what I'm saying.

So that day, you just catch them off guard.

But I hit Medina, knocked Medina down, and then I said, oh, what did I do?

I ran home.

No, I ran home.

I was like, Bedina is going to beat the crap out of me.

But Medina respected me after that.

So I tell my grandchildren that story.

Same thing.

And their parents are like, don't be telling my kids to go fight.

Like, you got to protect yourself.

Well, the lesson for the young people today is use your words.

That's right.

Use your words.

But sometimes

it's time.

See, that's that double Capricorn energy.

That's right.

That's right.

Because we get it, right?

It's like sometimes it's like, you're not going to have me hiding in my house, in my neighborhood.

How did growing up in such a big family shape how you built and defined your family?

Because, you know, we all know that you got a lot of kids and then a lot a lot of kids.

I got a lot of kids.

And you were mothering so many people, but that comes from something.

It comes from my mother just mothering everybody.

You know they call me, tell my mama teeny mama.

Teeny mama.

And my mom just teeny.

So was it teeny mama or teeny mama?

Teeny mama.

Yeah, it was teeny mama.

Y'all get that?

So, you know, she mothered people and she took people in.

And so that's all I've known my whole life.

And I know in my heart that we are born to families, but that other people, I mean, it might not be your blood, mama, but

you know, sometimes,

but you can have a mama.

And I just love mothering.

Mothering.

It's my gift.

I think God gave to me.

So I love it.

But I got it from a mama.

And in this day and age when there are more and more people who say that they feel lonely.

Yeah.

You know, especially with social media, we're still recovering from COVID.

It just breaks my heart to know that there are folks out there.

One of the reasons we started our podcast was to create a space for people to feel like they had some kind of kitchen table.

And I think that what

Matriarch shows us is the power of building family wherever you are, you know, and it takes an active engagement.

It takes intention because Tiny Mama was intentional about keeping her doors open and inviting people in.

And you've been incredibly intentional about keeping your kitchen table broad and open.

Yes.

Yeah, I got it from her.

And it's, you know, it's brought me so much joy.

And

I say all the time that You know, again, I just want to reiterate that some of us are not blessed enough to have our blood family, but you can still have a family.

There is always somebody out there that needs some love too, and you just exchange that love.

And we don't do this life alone.

We were not built to do this life alone.

You know,

Barack was telling me we've been talking a lot about how the advent of the nuclear family, just like us,

is new.

It's new to this generation.

And a lot of the reasons that families and young couples are struggling is because they think they're supposed to do it with just them.

And we all grew up with aunts and uncles and cousins.

Our mothers were not ever trying to raise us by ourselves.

So don't get fooled into thinking that it's just ever supposed to be you.

You know, we need

play mamas and cousins and uncles and aunties and pretend neighbors.

And I want our young people to stop trying to do this life on their own.

And I think Tina is living example that that's the way we're supposed to live.

Tina,

your parents just sounded amazing, but they, like most people of that generation, they lived hard lives.

You say your mother was overprotective, cautious,

and yet deeply devoted.

You described your father as hardworking, loving, and flawed.

A terrible incident in a mind left him blind in one eye, and he never learned to read or write something you didn't even know until later in life.

But despite these hardships,

they showed up for your family.

You want to talk a little bit about some of the lessons that you learned from your parents and some of the lessons you had to unlearn?

Yeah, well, some of the, you know, I want to talk about that too because my...

My mother was a wonderful woman and she was a great mom, but she had a lot of fear.

And she put that fear, tried to put it on me, but I was just too wild and stubborn to listen.

But she also

was so, when I say she's overprotective, I felt like she didn't trust me.

I went through some teenage years where my mom was,

you know, she just,

I felt like,

Yeah, I just felt like she was she didn't trust me.

She thought I was fast or I was going to go get pregnant and my friends got pregnant.

And so then she was like, oh, you know, she just harped on that so much and

sometimes created a little shame about things that I shouldn't have even felt shame about.

So I'm very honest about that because my mom was flawed.

She wasn't perfect.

She was dirty near perfect in other ways, but in that way, we had a rough teenage year time because I felt like, and when you guys read the book, you'll see that there were times when I felt like she didn't trust me and I have an older sister who's here tonight Flo I don't know where you are Flo is here oh yeah

huh

where is Flo where are you Flo

right there in the second row oh okay

stand up Flo

yes go stand up Flo

And she look real sweet, but let me tell y'all

we gonna get to Flo.

Yeah, okay, well, I won't spoil it.

But anyway,

I will call Flo and I would say, you know, I can't stand her because she just said this or she did that.

And, you know, Flo would smooth things out.

So thank God I had this older sister.

But yeah, my mom, we went through some rough times.

And I think if anything, you know, she told me later when we made up.

that I called her and I said, why didn't you trust me?

And she said, you know, Tini, I trusted you.

I just didn't trust the world.

And I understood that, and I realized my mom was a great mom, you know, at that point.

Thank God I learned that.

I mean, I saw some other moms, and I was like, damn, I got better go call my mom.

I didn't know what I had, you know?

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

That's right.

But like you said, it wasn't easy raising a bunch of kids in the deep segregated South

Because you know when you know if you think times are bad now

you know being in Galveston Texas growing up when

stuff was real rough

and even though your folks showered you with an abundance of love they they couldn't or didn't always have the the tools to protect you from the world as as you would come to realize

I want you to tell

the powerful story of your first encounter with some of that ugliness when you were just five years old and your mother put you in Holy Rosary Catholic school across the street and you met Sister Fidelis.

Yes.

Boo, yeah, yeah.

And isn't that crazy that I'm 71 and I can remember Sister Fidelis?

A lot of teachers, I don't remember, but my first five minutes of school, because I was very excited about going to school.

I used to go there all the time because it was right across the street.

And the first five minutes,

some kid pointed at me and I pointed back at him and she said, who's talking?

And she came and got me and took me to the front of the class.

And she hit us with these sticks and I had never been spanked before.

So I was like, oh my god, I don't think I want to do this.

So I ran home at recess and told my mom, I don't like that.

She hit me and I was thinking my mom was going to go over there and get in her case.

And my mom brought me back and said, apologize to sister.

And I'm like, what?

And so that's what I mean about her just being passive.

And,

you know, my daddy used to drive the nuns.

And

my brothers worked in the schoolyard.

All of us went to the school.

And what I found out later is that my parents were actually bartering.

They were, my mom would make the...

the altar boy uniforms and so for the church and I was just like why y'all let them make us slaves like you know what's going on but she was actually bartering, which was very unselfish of my parents.

And I really appreciate that now, because they just wanted to protect us again, you know.

But the nuns were always,

because we weren't paying to go to school and we were poor, and you know, it was like teachers, kids, and nurses, they were like the elite, and

they always said that.

that I didn't belong there and that if I only knew and they would just they would just not

they tried to break my spirit.

They told me that they wanted to break my spirit.

And I was like,

no, you're not.

In my little five-year-old head, I just became this warrior because I had to protect myself.

Yeah, yeah.

And I love that story because it says so much about children, first of all, that, you know, and I say this all the time, children come here with a certain wisdom and a spirit, you know, and it takes the world to knock it out of us.

That's right.

And you know when somebody is

setting your bar low.

You children know when somebody is talking down to them.

And the reason I would think that you remember Sister Fidelis is because that was the first time you truly felt unprotected.

It was.

And you knew you were better than who she thought you were.

Right.

And you and that stuck with you.

It stuck with me.

And there were many kids,

well, I won't say many because I don't think that my mom I don't think that they were as

it was me and my brother Skip that they really picked on yeah and we were the last two I think and

but there were other kids too like I remember this guy Glenn and my kids always saying don't say people's last name they gonna come back and sue you but

But I remember Glenn.

No, they've told me that many times.

I know, it's true.

It's true.

You were absolutely.

And they're right about that.

I shouldn't have said that.

Then I shouldn't have even said that.

But anyway, he don't get no ideas.

Don't get no ideas.

But Glenn, they would, you know, pick on him too.

And his dad was a barber.

And so I don't know if they just had a thing about us not feeling like we were worthy to be there with these professional.

people's kids you know i don't know but you knew that there was something in you that told you that you did belong yeah that you were were worthy.

Well, at that time, I think it was more so that I just said, you're not going to break my spirit.

That's all I knew, because I had a mouth on me.

And you know, I think,

you know,

as a kid, talked back.

And I just thought.

What did they call you?

Badass teeny bee.

It was really just badass teeny.

And my,

you know, I had these older older parents.

So by the time I came along, they were really tired.

And they didn't discipline me like they did my brothers and sisters.

They,

with me, they were more lax.

So I was always talking stuff, talking back into everything.

And so it gave me that spirit to actually stand up.

Yeah.

to them, I believe.

Yeah, and you would need that.

You would need that

to me.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

You were always a fighter.

In fact, as they say, they called you badass Tina B.

And you needed that attitude to make your way in a big family.

But you

also needed it growing up in the shadows of racism.

Your sister Flo, who we just met, Flo

in your lifetime participated in the early sit-ins that led to the desegregation of Woolworth lunch counters in Galveston.

Your parents had to deal with the constant targeting of your brothers by local police.

So this fear, this constant fear of needing to protect you all was real.

But then you grew up into

the mini skirt wearing Afro

midriff bearing shaft loving teen.

So you brought all, in all that environment.

You brought all that energy.

I want you to share, tell about the time that you got hauled into the police station for doing absolutely nothing.

Nothing, just being outside of a movie.

And this cop came up and said, come here.

And I went over and my friend Vanessa, who was really scary.

And

we went over and he was like, what's your name?

And I said, why do you need my name?

And it was all these kids waiting and we had just seen Shaff.

So, you know, I was feeling really like Shaff.

Shaft.

Shut your mouth.

That's right.

So,

and he just kept saying, give me your name.

And I said, I'm not going to give you my name.

I don't know why.

And so he's like, well, I'm going to take you down to the station.

I said, well, take me because I want to ask.

And all the kids are saying, she didn't do nothing.

She didn't do nothing.

And so he puts us in a car and he takes us to the station.

And his sergeant chewed him out.

I could see him like, what are you doing?

But he came out and he said,

officer, the officer is going to take you home and not on the corner where he found you.

And I was like, the corner?

We were in the front of the movies.

We're high school students.

And he said, oh, well, you know, y'all, you look like nice girls, but y'all shouldn't be out there on the street.

So he had told him this story.

And when we left out, He like talked to us so crazy because he said the officer is going to take you home and not take you, you know, leave you on the corner where he found you, whatever.

And so when we were walking out, the guy says, is your brother's name Loomis Beyonce?

And I said, oh,

so you're, he said, yeah, I'm the one that kicked his.

And I said, well, from where I was, he kicked your.

So, you know, we had this big confrontation and he actually

called us some really bad names and it was it was pretty bad but that was just one of the incidences because he actually wound up taking me to jail.

Yeah, I went to jail, y'all.

Which my granddaughter just said to me the other day, she said, you went to jail?

And I was like, I didn't think about that.

I'll put that in the book.

But just riding motorcycles and racing with my brother Butch, he had a bunch of kids out on the beach, and we were racing, and

this guy came up and he took me to jail and he rode me through the park where if you come to Galveston, there's a park called Menard Park.

And black people would just line up in their Sunday best and be out on the beach and we would just walk, you know, people would walk through showing off their outfits.

You wash your car and drive through.

It was like a parade.

You know, it's a little small town.

T and B, y'all know about that.

Yeah, yeah.

So he drove me through that.

So somebody saw me in the car and they were like, Tina Beyonce in the police car.

And I'm like, oh Lord.

And they took me to jail and did a cavity search.

And I talk about that in a book.

And it was the most humiliating, traumatizing thing to me to be like,

I think at the time I was like,

maybe 18.

And it was, it was terrible.

And he put me in jail and I wound up having to pay all these fines.

And we were on outside of the city limits.

But this guy was just like a nightmare to us because he just was after your family.

He was after my family.

Everyone.

Just jealous.

Doesn't mean that.

Just jealous.

But when you talk about the fear that your mother had getting back to your mother and I'm sure your father, that fear was real.

Yes.

But I think the interesting thing, you know, because I talk a lot about fear,

because we're living in times where we see how fear can protect you but it can also keep you locked yes and small

and it's so important to be able to distinguish between the fear that you need and the fear that keeps you small.

You have been able to

you know sort of evolve past that fear that even though your mother raised you with that real fear, there was something in you that said I can't carry that fear because I'll get stuck like they did.

Right.

And that's important for young people to understand.

How do you redefine yourself

in an environment that is justifiably based in real fear?

Well, I think that that was justifiably based in fear and it was real, but I think that When I was a teenager, I think, well, I just think to survive, that you're living in it you don't have a choice about it so you just don't let yourself dwell on it yeah but I think that my mother's fears of things gave me a fearlessness because I didn't want to be that way and I wanted to if somebody was

you know messing with my kids and I become a beast you know I'm gonna fight And when somebody's trying to control me, I'm gonna fight.

But I got that from,

you know, from just not wanting to be fearful.

But what I do understand is that my mama was still behind the scenes.

She was protecting us in her way.

I just didn't see it when I was young.

I was like, she didn't protect me.

But she did the best she could do with all the fear that she had because of the things she had been through.

Yeah.

How could I expect her to be fearless?

Yeah.

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Well, you say something that when I think of my mom, who you guys know, passed a year ago,

but I write about her in the light.

And she was very

determined to

not parent the way her parents parented her.

And I think that that's, you know, and I knew all my grandparents, but I also knew their weaknesses.

They believed in things that kids should be seen and not heard, that, you know,

the old-fashioned kind of stuff like that.

And the thing I always say about my mother's parenting brilliance was that a lot of times we we just emulate what we see, but Tina, you're an example that you can change, you can be from one place,

be taught a set of things, but you don't have to be of it if it doesn't serve you.

Right.

And so when you approached becoming a mother, because I want to talk a little bit about mothering, you made a concerted effort to be a very different mother.

Yes.

Can you tell me?

Yeah,

the things that, you know, I took the good from my mom, which was so many great things,

but I also learned from the things that I felt like she didn't do such a great job on, and that was to protect my children.

I think, you know, I would speak up.

I would fight with people.

I remember traveling with them, especially the business that they went into entertainment.

It was very scary for me.

And I remember having to go and

fight with light people, fight with

you know, the music people.

And here I was, this country woman from Texas with this big hair and this thick thick accent and

and people didn't really respect me because they were like who is she to come in here and start telling us about light and I'd say well you know I don't know about light but I do know that they look gray and they some black girls and you better get that blue light off

And I wouldn't leave until they, I wasn't aggressive, I wasn't loud, I would just stand there and they say, okay, well, can you move?

No, when you change the light, I can move.

And I protected them.

I didn't let people

do certain things around them.

They couldn't smoke weed in the studio around them.

They couldn't curse.

Can you imagine my country self in there telling these producers, I'm sorry, but can y'all not smoke in here?

You know, and I remember just being...

having to be a little gangster sometimes.

I remember one time

we were in one of the first things that we went to in Florida, and there was this group, and I'm not going to say their name, but they were behind us, and they said, oh, I'm going to go take a picture with these and call the girls.

And they were like 16, 17.

And they said it one time, and I was like, Tina,

so you could feel yourself.

So I turned around, and they said it again, and I said, I don't see your mama out here.

Ooh, now,

no, but let me tell you, the record.

What was that girl's name?

name you had a jack?

What was her name again?

Bedina.

Medina.

Like, I'm on Bedina you up in the car.

So

the record people came and they were like, oh my God,

Miss Tina, you cannot do that.

We got to get you to the car.

And they said, they told me the name of the group and they were like, they will shoot you.

And I was like, well, they're going to have to shoot me because they can't talk to my girls like that.

And so I did a lot of things out of just being naive, you know, because that just came out of my mouth.

You have raised the other thing about your mothering that was interesting to read about that people don't, maybe not know.

Your girls are like night and day.

Yeah, they're very different.

Two different people.

And, you know, I always say about mothering, you know, you have your first child and they turn out, they're so sweet and they sleep through the night.

And you start thinking, I'm such a good mother and I know what I'm doing.

And then the second one shows up

and you're like, oh no,

what did I do?

Can you talk about how you approached

sort of seeing both of your daughters for who they were?

Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things is

Just that

when somebody asks me what's the best advice I can give to them, it is always

that if you have more than one child to see that child for who they are to try to find out what

you know what makes their clock tick or whatever what what excites them what are their best qualities and not compare

you know

when you grow up that was another thing that i think my mother she liked her boys oh she liked her boys my mother i tell i tell people Craig.

Yeah.

I was like, what do I have to do, lady?

I know, that's right.

I'm the first lady of the United States.

She's like,

you live in the White House.

She's like, but Craig's wine is so good.

And I was like, oh, lady, please.

I'm so glad to hear.

This is why we are the way we are.

That's right.

That's right.

Oh, my God.

But my mom, my brother, Larry, that was just her heart and soul.

So she'd be like, can you go in there and fix Larry bed?

And I'm like, no.

Fix his bed?

He can fix his own bed.

There you go.

You know, but I think

I learned from that too, because I feel like

you can't, you know, you love your kids the same.

And then there are qualities about one that you like better maybe than the other.

But it's so important to make them feel just as important.

And especially when you have a five-year gap like my girls.

And so one of the things is, you know, when

Beyoncé just wanted a little sister so bad, and she just loved Solange's daughter.

She got one.

She was ready to send her back.

But by the time she got to be 10, she was in that group.

And all of a sudden, I just started noticing that the girls in the group would say, Shut up, Solange, because Solange was being there trying to run things,

trying to teach up choreography.

She was trying to keep up.

She was trying to keep up with her sister.

And Beyoncé started letting them say, Shut up, Solange, be quiet, Solange.

Mama, come get Solange, you know.

And I was like, this is Solange's house.

Y'all in her house.

And so I said, Don't you love Tina?

Yes.

No, I'm like, this is the house y'all visiting.

So, you know, but I took them to therapy because I saw

the vision.

She took these

people to therapy.

I love that.

I did.

And, you know, I remember some of my relatives saying, you're going to make them kids crazy.

But I wanted them to be close.

And I didn't want there to be this rivalry.

And I didn't want it to be that

Beyonce was not ride or die for her sister first.

Yeah.

You don't let somebody do your sister like that.

So, yeah.

And so I took them to therapy and I found this young man that was amazing and he explained it all to Beyonce because I had been explaining it to her but she wasn't listening.

That's what they do.

That's what they do.

These children.

Yeah.

So

things got immediately better with them.

Beyonce hated therapy.

Solange loved therapy.

And so Solange kept going.

And eventually

her therapist passed away.

And so she stopped going as a kid but it was just great for them and and you know I used to have to have a salon day for her because when the kids are not really close together it's I think it's way harder you know when they're really close together

it's different but I just didn't want that rivalry and they have been close ever since.

Yeah, I used to have to tell Malia, I still kind of do, is, you know, I would make the point to her because they're three years apart.

And, you know, the big sister knows everything so you got the little sister at the dinner table and of course the big sister's like well that's not how you say that and why don't you know this and i would have to pull her aside and be like don't step on my child right you know no one stepped on you yeah you when you were her age and you sat at the table not knowing anything me and your father were like oh every word you utter is so brilliant and now exactly here you come you know making your little sister feel like

not realizing that you're three years older, you know.

And they look up to them so much that that is very hurtful to the younger kid, you know, and a blow to their self-esteem.

But I'm the same way about not making comparisons.

We got to the point at our dinner table where we just didn't talk about school at all.

You know, it would be like, you know, okay, you passed.

I didn't want to hear about grades.

I didn't want to get into that.

Because that's how the comparisons come into.

Exactly, because I didn't know what kind of student Sasha would be right you know

so to this day Malia still feels like I don't give her enough credit but she does she's

I had lunch with them and I was just like whoa I mean so confident and smart and talented well see the thing is when we get together it's like we don't talk because you didn't tell me you were writing a book the last time we had lunch because we were so busy talking to these girls who all talk so much

they do, but it was just fascinating to hear them because they it was those girls are.

Oh, I don't know what y'all all up for

one of our many, yeah.

We, you know, they were so smart, and I and they just grew up so fast.

I guess because I wasn't around them all the time, and I remember that little feels that way.

But you know, what I remember is how

they are so

patient and well

I don't know about Malia

No and I only say that because I've had

more

but

we

had more experience

yeah but but I remember keeping those kids yeah and how patient she was with the kids yeah They are they're wonderful girls.

Yeah, yeah.

But the thing I like about your mothering is, and my kids say that this is the phrase they hate for me to say, I'm not one of your little friends.

I know that's right.

We talked about that.

Yeah, yeah.

I love that.

I don't want to be your little, you know, I don't want to be your little friend.

We can be friends later.

And so many people are trying to be their kids' friends, and they think that that makes you closer.

Cool, yeah.

But let me tell you, I was not my children's friend.

I love them deeply.

They, you know, there was respect.

And, you for those of you who are trying to be friends with your kids, our kids love us just as much as adults.

In fact, the relationship I think is even closer because now they've earned my friendship.

Exactly.

And now you can be friends.

Now we can be friends.

Now maybe you know something.

One thing I wanted to touch on before we move on to is

just

mothering in the age of social media and this whole quest for fame and likes and being out there and as a mother who's had to mother people through fame can you talk a bit about the misperceptions of people who are chasing fame and how hard it is and

whether they're thinking about what they're chasing?

Yeah.

Because it's not all fun and games.

And the other thing it sets you up for is for people to lie on you and create their own narrative about your life.

I have to see it every day on social media.

My girls didn't want me on social media for that reason.

Seem to be acting up on social media.

I didn't trouble all the time.

You know, I read something and it just makes me so angry, and my fingers just start

twitching.

And I'm just trying to get that.

You gotta get your thumbs.

That's right.

Yeah, it's true.

But, you know,

it's something to want fame.

And that's the one thing with young people, they don't, you know, the lights and the glitz

is all good.

But

there's a lot of sacrifice and a lot of loss.

You wind up, you know, your kids and people who have to grow up really fast.

And privacy is over.

It's over.

And

the ability to protect your kids is nothing worse than somebody lying on your kids and saying all this horrible, crazy stuff about them.

And it's nothing you could do because, as a you know, a private citizen, you get to go on a rant on Instagram and clap back.

But for me, it makes the news.

And then I get the phone call.

It's like, can you just be quiet?

Well,

let's jump ahead to the career Tina, right?

Because, you know, in addition to being a ruthless mother and

behind the scene, ruthless and loving, as from one ruthless mother to another.

No, but

you,

I love hearing about headliners

because that was the hair salon you started, the beauty center you started, and it sounded so much like

the hair salon I went to from the time in Chicago the time I was like old enough to have money to get my own hair done and my mother stopped pressing my hair by the stove I went I got babysitting money so I could go to a real hair salon and it was a real professional hair salon where almost all the professional black women in the city of Chicago went to and it was called Van Cleef and Ronnie

was my hairdresser until the time I went to the White House really yes yes But Headliners reminds me of the Western version of Van Cleef.

Can you talk about

why you started it, what that was like for you,

what it did for you to have your own business, what it meant for you in terms of your self-esteem?

Oh, God, it did wonders for my self-esteem because

I actually started my salon when

I realized that I was totally dependent on my husband financially.

And I felt

y'all yeah

and I felt like I wanted to get out of the marriage and I was like what am I gonna do like what am I

I just felt so dependent and it really did work on my self-esteem so I started making this plan to open my business now I have to say that my ex-husband was the person who pushed me to go to beauty school he's like Tina you're so talented and you could have your own business and so it wasn't a thing like I just snuck and did it and he actually helped me gave me the seed money for it and was like you know the marketing mind behind it a lot of times but that salon allowed me the freedom to feel I was a boss and you know that was not it would have been great if I wasn't the boss but that made it even better

and

and it was I wanted it to be a very professional place and my friend my one of my best friends Cheryl is here tonight too cruzo who was always encouraging me to start the business as well.

And she and I used to go to the salon and we loved it, but they were, you know, selling chicken dinners and hot stuff.

And

it was all this gossip going on.

And people would go, the stylists will go sit down and eat the chicken dinner.

And I'm like,

I've been there for five hours.

I was like, I can't do this.

And people liked the experience, but I didn't like the experience.

I hated it and she hated it because she was a successful businesswoman and so I started the salon and I wanted it to be I we didn't allow any gossip if you got gossip you you got fired immediately we were professional we dressed professional

and we got people in and out.

We educated the stylist on technology and we mixed it with those old-fashioned heating up some olive oil and putting egg whites in and you know all of the things things that I knew the hair needed.

But the main thing that happened in that place was just pure love, like camaraderie between women.

Because when you provide a space that is positive without that negativity,

it flourishes and people love it and women flourish.

Oh, yeah.

So it was more than a salon.

It was...

you know, it was a place of healing.

Yeah.

And not looking down, not judging anybody, just,

it was church.

That's what it was.

We know about that.

I mean, how many people here where your hair salon is like your favorite place to be?

Yes.

We're all the, I know, I know.

And so you provided that space, but I love the way

you

talk about the need to get your independence because

your marriage wasn't always what it should have been.

Right.

Can you talk a bit about that first marriage?

Because I love the way you talk about Matthew.

I mean,

you are not together.

Right.

There was a long

breakup.

It was a long, long.

It was a long, long time.

I was just like, I'm reading like Tina one.

Yeah, you're like, oh no, he's back.

Yes, he's back.

He's back.

Many times.

That's what Okra said.

She was like, girl, I was like, again?

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

But it it was, but it was love there.

It was love there.

But it just didn't work.

It didn't work.

Well, I just think that people have,

not that I was not flawed, but, you know, I just think people have their demons.

And Matthew has some demons, but I never doubted for one minute that he didn't love me and those girls.

And that he didn't take care of me.

He protected me.

And I think in my life, when I look back on it, I realize that I stayed so long because he protected me and I didn't have that protection so much when I was coming up I didn't feel protected I didn't feel fought for

oh they've been seeing the oh okay I know

like is that tiny

but no I was you know and he protected me and he was and and and you know people say God you stayed with him for 31 years well all 31 years wasn't bad that's right it was a lot of really great times and we built things together and we were very dedicated parents and so we had a lot of good things too and I don't have anything bad to say about him.

I mean I don't.

Yeah.

I've forgiven him

and

you know he's forgiven me for some times because I'm badass teeny beef so I'm not trying to act like I was an angel.

I wasn't an angel.

What were some of the lessons you learned about yourself in your marriage or in the exiting of your marriage?

Well, what I learned about me in my exiting is that, again, that message keeps reoccurring to me that I am enough.

Because I realized that I probably would not have stayed if I'd have just taken the time to really look at myself and give myself credit for all the things that I had accomplished.

I was just trying to survive from day to day.

It was always some,

you know, in therapy they tell you, and I've been in therapy forever,

that if someone slaps you in the face and you're trying to recover for it and you get slapped again, you never can recover and get your strength because you're just slapped.

I'm not saying he was slapping me.

No, that wasn't happening.

Don't start no rumors.

But no, but I'm just saying like, It wasn't only my marriage, it was like my parents dying.

I lost my parents at my mom at 26 years old, six months after I got married.

Then I lost my dad two years later.

And,

you know, it was just one thing after another.

It was always something that was happening that I was fighting.

And I realized that my whole life has just been filled with challenges.

And when you take the time to stop and convince yourself that you are enough

and that,

you know, you're going to be just fine whether you're with someone or or not.

Say that part one more time slowly.

You are.

You know, you will be just fine and you will get, it's called getting through it because you ain't going to get stuck there.

There's light at the end of the tunnel and you're going to go through it and you're going to come out on the other side.

And whether you are, you know, young or old, I wish I would have.

learned that lesson a lot earlier.

I mean, I'm trying my best because I know that when it comes to raising daughters and women, you know, we're socialized to think that we aren't good enough.

We're socialized to think that we need somebody else to make us whole.

And that starts so young.

I mean, it starts with Barbie dolls and kin and the wedding dress and the questions that we ask our daughters.

That even, you know, my grandmother, when I'm in law school at Harvard, y'all,

my grandmother, I would call her to check in and she'd be like, what you make for dinner?

And I was like, nothing, grandma.

I'm in law school.

I don't even have a kitchen in my dorm.

Right.

You know, but it was the message.

It was the message.

So I'm trying to figure out how to not program that in my girls and the girls in my life.

Because, you know, if you ask somebody, are you dating somebody?

You know, they might be happy, but then you're asking them, well, you're happy, but are you dating somebody?

And then they're dating somebody, and then it's like, oh, you're dating somebody when you're getting married.

Right.

And then it's on

the morning.

When you're going to have a wedding.

It's not for everyone.

It's not for everyone.

That's true.

So, what would you tell

young people out there about marriage?

And how you feel?

Well, I think that marriage is wonderful, and I hope that it is in everyone's future because I think it's a beautiful way to build a life together.

But that the person that you choose to build it has to be on the same page.

There you go.

They can't be on a different page, you know.

But I think that love is wonderful, and I hope that everyone finds it.

But if you are not with a partner, I think you can have as just as fulfilled, full of a life.

And that it's better to be by yourself than to be with somebody who don't get it.

Yes, yeah.

Or that's not so excited when you walk into the room

that they understand that you are a prize, you know?

I want to talk a bit about Uncle Johnny

because,

you know,

through it all, right, because you were managing a salon,

two creative girls who had careers skyrocketing, trying to travel, trying to keep a marriage together, and it sounded like Johnny was a a huge part of helping you keep your life together.

You want to talk about that?

Yeah, well, Johnny was, you know, by the time the girls got going really well, he was, you know, he was really sick.

But just in my life, since I was born, that was a person that I trusted more than anybody in the world that I felt like never judged me.

and didn't judge anybody else and that was just the most creative free person because think about being born in that time.

If I was born in 54, he was born in what, 50, 1950, and he knew he was gay from probably three or four years old, and

how hard it was.

But Johnny was my light.

You know, my mama used to say, when Johnny fought, you got to be there to catch it.

And it was true.

Because I just was there.

You know,

every day he was my best friend.

And

and I could just be really really free with him

yeah he was amazing he could cook he could sew better than anybody he was the sharpest he would make these beautiful clothes and he would be genuinely himself in the front of anybody you know and not not hide any part of him I was so in awe of that you know, how free he was.

And he, you know, he came to work for me at the house.

And, you know, it was the,

even that gave me so much freedom because I knew that he was taking such good care of my girls and they loved him.

They adored him.

He's the reason why, you know, there is a renaissance.

And

he's a big reason why

that I was able to do those costumes and all of that.

He affected my life more than anybody else in my life.

You have spent your life taking care of everybody else.

You're doing it to this day.

I mean in the midst of your book tour your mind I know is back there and you know I can see your brain working up here

and sometimes that can take a toll and for you at one point you know you weren't focusing on your health.

Yeah.

And you share in the book that you almost missed a life-changing diagnosis.

Do you want to talk a bit about that?

Yeah, just just it, you know, I struggle.

I have two endings to the book.

And if you guys, when you read the book, you'll see that it's like an ending of the book.

And then I go back and talk about my cancer journey.

And the reason why I did that is because in 2022, I made my mammogram appointment.

And right before it was to happen, COVID came.

And they called me and told me,

you know, we're not doing them in person, but we'll call you when we start again.

So in my mind, I just got so busy with everything else

that I did not go in 23.

When it came back, you know, around that time, I thought I had gone in 22.

And then 24 came and I was like, I got to go have my mammogram.

I got to get all of my health things.

So I did them and

they actually found

like a, some spot on my cervix.

And so I went back and had that biopsy and it was fine.

So i was like i'm fine i i don't need to rush to have the mammogram but i waited and waited it was like five or six months before i went back not the mammogram but the biopsy

and then when i went and they said oh you have cancer i was like not me like it was so shocking to me and even though it was early stages i went i flew to houston to tell my sister flo and I said, well, I have the first, you know, I have the lowest stage.

I have stage one.

And she said, no, actually, it's a stage zero.

And it just hit me that I could have got this at stage zero yeah and I am so blessed because they still got it very early and I didn't have to go to radiation or chemotherapy thank you Jesus

but the point is is that I could have kept going and not going and it could have been stage four by the time I went so I wanted people to think about that for a second and I can tell you that one of the best things to come of this is on my Instagram I can't tell you how many people said,

I'm going to go get my mammogram.

I've been putting it off for three years.

You know, we have to, as women, take the time to take care of ourselves and go get our exams

and not just put it off because there's so much going on all the time and you want to take care of everybody else.

Please, y'all listen to it.

It's the truth.

And this is so, so prevalent in our community.

And not just men, women, but it's men.

Men, too.

And, you know, breast cancer is not a death sentence in the way that it was.

It is if we aren't checking.

It is if we get too busy and life gets in the way.

But with regular screening and really, you know,

people should be going to the doctor.

And I know in a time when people don't have health care, it's expensive.

You know, this is why we need to have health care, which is why it matters who is in the White House,

why you should be voting

on and on and on,

because having access to regular care will save your life.

Right.

And

me, you know, I was in the Hamptons.

I was just having a good time.

And

my, no, and I say that because I planned, I was there and I was like, I'm just going to stay another few weeks.

And then something just hit me one day that, Tina, you better go back and get that, that biopsy, you are being very irresponsible right now.

So I went home, you know, I went home, I think, two days later, and my kids were like, stay, don't go back.

And, and, you know, I went, and thank God I went because I would have came back and got busy, and then it would have been another year, and that's what happens to us.

So please, please do that.

We're coming to a close, but I want to, I know, I know, I know.

I'm looking at the the clock going you lie you clock you lie

but I but I've got some fun rapid fire posing things I want to do but Tina I want you to talk a little bit about

sort of

finding your your wisdom

or it or or acknowledging your wisdom because there's you know there's so much wisdom in in this book but i if

I know you're like me and I've said this before but at 61 I am just now

willing to recognize that maybe just maybe I know something

about something I know it's true and I'm just wondering how you feel about why does it take women so why does it take us so long as

women to own our wisdom.

I think, you know, it's funny because I said

people approached me about a book before and even when they approached me this time which was different,

I kept saying I'm not telling y'all my kids business.

So if that's why they want to do a book deal, then I don't want to do it because I'm not going to share other people's stories.

I'm not going to tell their business.

But just the fact that I didn't feel like my story was worthy

or that anybody wanted to hear about my story is crazy.

And I had to, you know, go in and when I first talked to them, I was like, I'll do a book on behind the scene things that happened, but I'm not going to do a memoir.

And, you know,

Kevin O'Leary is somewhere in the audience too, and I would love for him to stand up.

He is my

collaborator.

And, you know, when you write a book, Your collaborator is so important because he's the person that went and found all this history on Weeks Island and Galveston and and you know he taught me some things and he fact checks things because you know in your brain I'm like oh when I was 19 so and so and he's like no that didn't happen

really

because he's fact check and then you argue with him like nah right right

but in talking to him at first he was the one that encouraged me to just be more open.

He's like, Ms.

Tina, people would love to hear about that.

And I was like, you think so?

And he's like, yes.

And we, you know, this book was a thousand pages.

We had to take 500 pages out.

Can you imagine?

So it's so many more stories.

And

there publishers in the house.

But yeah, so I didn't even think that people would want to hear.

I was like, they're just going to want to hear about my kids.

It's so much of the book that you go through before you even hear about my kids.

That's why you're number one on that seller's list.

Well,

I'm grateful that you have shared your story with us.

But before we close, let's do something fun.

Okay.

I would love that.

We're going to have some fun in the spirit of the IMO podcast.

We are going to do a special, in my opinion, rapid fire segment.

I'm going to call out a few prompts, and I want you to tell all of us the first things that come come to mind.

Okay.

The ultimate style icon is.

Oh, God.

It's too many to...

I mean, I have so many style icons back from the 40s.

You know, just, I don't know, Diana Ross.

I think that's a good one.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

Okay.

I don't know.

That's

too many.

Diana Ross shares.

I take those.

I think those are good.

A good date must include

good music.

Oh, yeah.

Just dancing.

Do you have a song that just gets you like, mmm?

You know, my favorite song is For the Love of You.

Oh, yeah.

The Isley's.

Oh, yeah.

That's just the best.

Oh, yes.

The best soul food dish is.

It's not your IMO.

Just soul food, some good old cabbage and mac and cheese,

greens.

You know, this is like true.

There is no soul food dish.

Soul food is an experience.

It is an experience.

Many dishes.

Yes, right.

All right, the best show on TV right now is.

Oh, God, the best.

I know that's hard.

Do you even have time to watch TV these days?

Not a lot.

I have to be honest.

I haven't watched it a lot.

But I love sisters.

Oh, yeah.

I love sisters because it is just

some real stuff on there.

Tyler just gets it, you know.

Tyler tends to do that.

He does that.

It's real.

And you know, people can talk all that stuff, but I'm like, I know somebody just like every one of those girls.

The best movie ever made.

Oh,

the best.

Coolie High.

Cool, yes.

Tuna.

You know, I still,

you know, when he gets beat up and in up under the elephant.

Don't you cry?

I cry.

I still feel like I've seen this something.

Oh, my God.

But I still cry.

Do the young people even know what we're talking about?

No.

Listen, you have to give up your black card if you ever seen Coody High Coolie High.

Hand it over, put it on the stand.

Your black card.

And the five heartbeats.

Right.

Okay, a green flag, a green flag in dating

that's often overlooked, a green flag.

Oh, God, a green flag.

I think just someone being,

for me, being a gentleman.

Yeah.

Just being kind.

Yeah, being kind.

Forget how much you make.

Just be kind.

Right, exactly.

One thing that's changing in your life right now for the better

is

I am

really

feeling myself right.

Woo!

Woo!

Feeling myself.

Woo!

I like that.

An underrated beauty hack.

Probably

this ice thing.

Have y'all tried the ice?

Will you put your face in the ice?

Yeah, put your face in the ice or either get an ice cube.

Blue taught me this.

Okay.

You take an ice cube, it's the baby.

And it tightens up your.

Yeah, they get all the hacks off of YouTube.

So, how long do you have to put the ice on your face?

Well, you can take an ice cube.

Well, actually, Jules taught me that.

He was like, Grandma, you don't have to put your face in it.

Okay.

Because that's really hard, but just use the ice cube and it kind of lifts up stuff.

You know, at my age, you got to try everything.

I'm going to.

First of all, Tina, you are beautiful.

You have not aged

one

iota.

I mean you are looking so good.

So tell us as we close, what does it truly mean to be a patriarch?

To be a patriarch?

To be a patriarch.

Oh,

I think to

love unconditionally your children, your grandchildren, the people that you have in your life, and to be respectful.

and

just,

you know, a father figure to people that not all about

being about yourself, like an unselfishness.

Yeah.

That's what it pays.

I mean, you know, handling things.

Handling things.

And Tina Knowles is handling some things, y'all.

I just want to say thank you for

inviting me to open your book tour.

You know,

there's so much about you that I knew, but I learned so, so much more about you in these pages that makes me just love you so much more.

Y'all, we didn't even, we just barely scratched the surface.

There are so many good stories in this book.

There's so much wisdom that you spit out.

And with this level of humor and honesty, you will be cracking up.

You will be crying.

You will feel renewed and you will walk away learning something, which is what IMO is all about.

Thank you.

Thank you for your honesty, your candor.

And I'll see you on tour, right?

I'll see you out there.

I love you, everyone.

Everyone, big hand for Tina Nose.