Choose Your Creative Path with Erika Alexander and Kim Coles

I got in my car and I pulled, I sobbed like a baby because I realized I had not accepted my fate.

And I cried for 20 minutes straight where I said, you are an actress.

Was it tears of joy?

Were you happy about it?

No, it was tears of recognition that you were worthy.

Yeah.

You

just maybe suppressed that I couldn't believe.

Yeah.

That you were you.

Yeah.

And maybe my own expectations were were not to be an actress, to be a scientist or something much more legitimate.

Yeah.

And yet this is my life.

Yes.

And I have to say, stop running from it.

Accept it.

You're here and

you're doing well.

I mean, it's not easy, but I was made for it.

This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Cologuard.

Hi, Craig Robinson.

I haven't seen you in a second.

I know, I know.

We have gotten into a good cadence with these, and then all of a sudden, boom.

Yeah, yeah.

Two months go by.

I feel like I haven't seen you.

Yeah.

You are just getting back from more basketball tournaments, the endless slog of AAU.

We had our final event down in North America.

Final meaning.

Final for the summer.

Final for the summer.

Not final for our lives.

We've

15 and 13.

We've got another five years.

So they were at a tournament?

They were at the last tournament of the summer, and

both of their teams played really well.

They played well.

And you know me, I treat these as business trips, not as vacations.

So it's usually

no poor Austin and Aaron.

No late nights.

Why?

Why?

Because you're just trying to instill some discipline.

You're trying to have them ready for the nine o'clock game.

Boo for you.

So they're in Orlando.

They can't swim in the pool this time i i acquiesced and i was like you know what guys you've you've had a good year you've worked hard oh my god you you are crazy go ahead jump in the pool jump in the pool have fun stay up late but you know you know what's really really interesting what was really interesting is

um

you remember when i talked a while ago about going on these trips and staying in an airbnb yeah

There's like four or five families now that are, they were like, oh, that's a good idea because we had them over for our.

Yeah, yeah.

So you guys stayed in an Airbnb.

You had a whole house?

Every, it felt like everybody had a lot of people.

Everybody had everybody.

There we go, Airbnb.

Everybody's catching on.

It's like, go get your Airbnb, B, B and B because you had a pool at your Airbnb that you didn't let the kids use except for once.

And the convenience of, you know, not having to

pay for food and beverage everywhere you go.

Well, that's good.

I'm just glad that you let those boys swim.

I am too.

I am too.

I'm, I'm, you know what?

I'm, I'm easing up in my old age.

Yeah, you should.

You really should.

But we need to do a podcast on you needing to ease up.

You know,

we got, you got some lives.

You got, you got jokes.

I thought we had the comedians on as guests.

Well, we've got a great, exciting show.

Oh, I just can't.

Like, I mean, I mean, you watch Living Single, right?

I, am I breathing black and a female?

It's like, yes, yes.

All the, all the crew.

Man.

And, and, you know, you and I didn't get to live single like that.

We went to college.

We had roommates in college.

But then once we got out of college, we both lived on our own.

And when that show came out, because that show was out, I was having kids by then.

I was so envious of those relationships and the fun they were having and hanging with their friends.

And I mean, I was,

I can't wait to talk to these two.

Well, we, our, our guests are two of the stars of everybody's favorite, uh, for the first real girlfriend comedy for black folks and young folks.

Um, uh, you know, and uh, and not just girlfriends because they had

guy friends.

We'll get into that because, you know, I saw it while the guys were there.

You know,

the friendships of women,

in my view,

that was the thing that stood out for me.

The brothers upstairs, that was nice.

But the show centered around that bond that women had and the very different personalities of all your girlfriends.

And some people like.

Some folks and other folks get on your nerves, but you still find a way to learn from each other and grow.

But anyway,

introduce our guests because we were getting way too into it.

We're getting into it and we need the experts out here.

But first, we have Erica Alexander, who is a SAG and Independent Spirit Award-nominated actress known for her iconic acting roles as Maxine Shaw in Living Single, as we've mentioned.

She has also started,

starred in American Fiction, which you and I were talking about recently, Get Out and The Cosby Show.

And Kim Coles,

with over four decades on stage and on screen, is beloved for her role as Sinclair James Jones.

And she is also co-host of the hit podcast Reliving Single.

Erica and Kim are co-hosts.

Yes, they are both co-hosts of Reliving Single.

So without any further ado, Erica Alexander and Kim Coles, come on out.

Welcome to I Am a Rebecca Coach.

We can't wait to get into this.

All righty.

It's good to have you guys.

Come on, sit on in.

We could barely introduce you because we were getting into the whole.

Now my mother can die.

So she says, I can't believe

that my children,

my children have gone places I never thought.

I like, is that how your mother talks to him?

Yes, I'm not even talking.

She's one of those.

She's a thespian.

She's a thespian.

She's one of those.

I don't

swear.

It's like, is that how you talk to her?

I never, my children.

It's like, come on.

Yeah.

No, she's ecstatic, and so are we.

And so, Kim.

Yeah, my mother's 95, just turned 95

kim you're gonna meet michelle oh

because you crazy

it's wonderful wonders never cease

well if our mom were alive she'd be flipping over you two being here uh

she uh you know is so proud to see two amazing smart because it wouldn't just be because you were acting and on

tv bless you okay She would be thrilled with the way you present yourself in the world.

She met Mother Mary.

Yes, let me tell you something.

That would have put me over the top.

I would have never served myself at Thanksgiving again.

That would have just been like, that's so, that's

amazing.

Thank you.

Well, it's great to see you too.

You look great.

First of all, this is like, and Craig is probably fanboying.

I am.

Yeah, I am.

Yeah, yeah, you too.

Thank you.

You beautiful.

Thank you.

Bless you.

Keeping it together.

Happy from the inside out is my

trick.

Thank you.

Happy from the inside out.

And it's a choice, right?

Yeah.

Thank you.

Mine is gin tonics.

Yeah, but

it does the same thing.

It does.

It starts from the inside.

You should probably speak to someone about it.

Yeah.

No, I'm not.

I think it's whatever.

I think it's working.

Whatever it's working.

So you guys,

you guys,

reliving single.

I mean,

what a great idea.

You know, so

we could live it and relive it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What made you think to, you know, hop back into the

conversation?

Tell the origin story.

Tell the origin story.

Tell the story.

My mother does.

Well, actually, you know, it was like this,

30 years.

It's been 30 years, 32 years, 32 years since we did the original show, Living Single.

And it was 1993.

I think when we came out.

And all these years, I've been walking around with this face.

Yeah.

And I realized a lot of people were asking me questions.

And, you know, many times I wanted to answer them, and I kept answering the same question.

And then, after a while, people wanted to start talking about reboots and those things.

And I was never really for that.

So I was doing work with Color Farm Media.

That's my company.

And we were doing some really great work with Kevin Hart's company and Charlemagne and Kevin Hart Heartbeat.

They have a really great audio team.

And Eric Eddings, who is there, said, Hey, would you ever do a rewatch podcast of Living Single?

And I said, hell no.

No, thanks.

So what was the first instinct?

Did it feel like that would be to,

would it feel like you were pulling yourself back to a place?

Yeah.

Was it annoying you guys having your faces and having people

remember you primarily?

Not me.

She's speaking for herself.

I should, because, well, it's it it was difficult and it wasn't difficult because i had any issues with it it's just that I just, I'm a person that likes to look forward.

I love new things.

And then I thought about the opportunity of being able to talk about the industry, all the things that I've experienced, Erica Alexander, in this world, and sort of showing up as myself as opposed to a proxy for Maxine Shaw, attorney at law, who I love.

And we've done work with her, you know, the Maxine Shaw effect, the thing that she's, you know,

kind of set off with, you know, lawyers who felt inspired by her.

But I said, I don't know if they really know who Erica is because as well known as we are, especially back in the day, they didn't really interview a lot of black actors about their lives.

So I said, well,

this is it.

Like, take your shot.

And then it was just like, well, who will you do it with?

And, you know, I happened to be inviting one of my best friends in life and the perfect partner for this.

And that's Kim Coles.

Take it from here, Kim.

I'll say that, you know,

we do hear often, Where's the Reboot?

We love that show.

There aren't any shows like this on the air.

And I think that there's a real,

you know, it's missing.

People want to connect with those kinds of upwardly mobile, you know, trying to figure it out, girlfriend relationships, friends with guys and figuring out relationships.

And people are hungry for that.

And so when this rewatch show experience, when you called me about that, all along, I was like, let's do a reboot because I think we still look good.

Let's get it on camera while we can.

Let's get that chip.

So I was in.

I was like, let's do it.

So, yes, we're having fun.

We're reviewing every episode from the start.

Like, we started with episode zero, before zero, the origin of how the show got started.

And as inspired by you, Michelle Obama, because we said, you know what?

We, we were in a state of becoming.

Yeah.

So they need to know not just about these shows.

They need to show, we need to show how we became who we are.

That, and that's

what y'all are doing here.

That's beautiful.

Well, in my opinion, I want to give people a sense because we have a crop of new listeners who, before we

get into the

living single concept, for people to know what that was.

Like, what was the plot?

Why did it have so much?

But before we do that, I do want to hear more about you all

as people

and your friendship.

It's like, how did you all manage to, how, how did you two become the two?

And, you know, it, did it continue from the show?

Did you all find each other, reconnect with each other?

Did, was there ever a time where you were like that?

I don't even know.

Probably

you had all just to do it over five minutes ago.

But that's part of friendships.

Yeah.

And growing and.

reassessing and rejiggering how things become.

I always say, I admit that immediately when I met Erica, so we met at Living Single.

I always say for the record, I like to get it on the record that I knew immediately that this show was going to be a hit.

I felt like it would be a hit because the six of us had incredible chemistry.

The fun that you feel and see really was very real.

And so, Table Read, which you know is the first time you sit down as a cast and you read the first script, I immediately just was drawn to Erica's way, and she's, you know,

Erica.

She's

all your Ericanisms, Ericaisms.

And I was immediately like, oh, in love with who I thought that you were, would be because you were funny and you were bold.

And I immediately was like, yes, that's going to be my friend.

Well, Kim's the glue.

She has the gift that she can, in any room, make people feel immediately at ease.

I can't do that.

She feels that easy to do.

Oh, absolutely.

Both of you all.

But yeah.

Thank you.

No, she would really make a clown of herself.

So people laugh.

And then that invites everybody to talk to each other and that type of thing.

And it is a gift.

I mean, it's, it's, yeah.

So she did that for us because, you know, I was coming into the space.

Now,

truth is the show was

developed for her and Queen Latifah.

So they're coming in with a different type of agency and authority than somebody like me or TC when we're like hired guns and we get, we have to audition.

You know, we're sort of, you know, still proving ourselves.

They don't have to.

And so I was the fourth lead.

And I was also the character that Yvette Lee Bowser, let's lift her name up.

She was the creator of the show,

had created to represent her.

She was wanting to be a lawyer.

She wanted to do all of that.

She went to Stanford, ended up becoming a writer.

And she had in her eye, in her thing, this, you know, really gung-ho woman who was a world beater and that type of thing.

But she was so strong that the network didn't like it.

And they put, they said, you have to get rid of it.

And she said, no, I can't.

You'll get rid of me.

And so she put that character across the street uh-huh so i wasn't you couldn't live in the house couldn't you were too

too strong

she got too sexy it's like we could across the stag that's right and i kept keep forgetting that maxine lived across the street lived across the street

it felt like you all you were all together right well she was always there that would

be well of course there were always it's it it it that just reminds me of the the it's just amazing what a powerful character that was and i want to i want to get to that team aspect of it that you're talking about.

Can I say something about that and about the friendship?

So even though you were put across the street and even though the show was created around the two of us, what I'm speaking to, what I really want to call to, you asked about the friendship is that there was no hierarchy amongst us.

So it's not like we walked in going, hello, we have arrived and you and you and you and you, good luck to all of you.

I think this camaraderie, and I've always said that I came from a show that was highly competitive.

So I came from In Living Color.

And sketch comedy shows are notorious for being competitive environments.

And that's what makes them work.

And here I was in an environment that was collaborative and cooperative.

And that happened very quickly.

And we learned each other's strengths and we learned each other's, you know, I won't even say weaknesses, just like if I throw the ball to her, she's going to catch it, do something different, and throw it that way.

Like, okay, so we learned that quickly.

And I think that helped shape the friendship.

That helped shape how we fell in love love with each other and how we've worked together so, so beautifully.

So did that your friendship continue past the show?

Was it you guys always been each other's people?

It's tough.

Okay.

Yeah, let's hear about that.

Look, you know, you make these family and really hard friendships because you're like in a crucible and you're in a brutal schedule and everybody's feeling the love and all of that.

And you know this.

I mean, you go away and you go, we're all going to keep in touch.

And And then we go along our ways.

And that's kind of it.

We did that to some extent because that's the life that you choose.

That's the life of an artist.

You have to keep making a living.

Everybody's always all over the place, all over all the time.

But we did our best to keep in touch because we were just very naturally a fit on set.

And our mothers are both educators.

Our fathers are both.

Our fathers are both pastors, preachers, you know, Church of God in Christ, Lutheran, yours, what?

Methodist?

Became Episcopal priests at age 60-something.

Yeah, so really wild.

And we got along, maybe partly because we argued on set and made up and did some reparative work.

So we were kind of more like sisters.

In that, I just have to say that we did our best to stay in touch and there was always love.

But the truth is,

the unspoken thing about this business is that it does break up and make up families all the time.

Yeah.

And whatever your best intentions are, you just don't have time.

And I've heard you speak about that even with the show while you got together to do it so you could spend time with your brothers and you can spend time with you.

I can't do that with my family.

Can you imagine the craziness that that would happen?

But I think it's smart.

Yeah, you guys break the stereotype.

There's also this view that women in the business, black women in the business, don't get along.

I have not found that

crazy.

Yeah.

Really?

I have found that.

So I want to add a little, if I may, I love telling the world that she was made of honor at one of my weddings.

I love that.

One of my weddings.

Okay.

You were made of honor.

I was made of honor at your wedding.

For sure.

And neither one of us are married to either of those men.

So there's this relationship.

So I want to make sure I add

the love rule will remain.

That's true.

But I will say that, you know, there's this

stereotype or this rule that women don't get along.

And of course, there's competition

in theory.

There's, you know, only one role for that particular character.

But every, right?

But every audition I've ever been on, and, you know, we don't go those on auditions in person as much as we did before COVID.

I always felt an energy in the room of like, oh, look who's here.

Ooh, looks here.

There was the time that you could see people and run.

And I would always go see you all at the table, Reed, even though only one of us will make it there.

And there's a respect that you have for others that I don't, it's either my job or it's yours.

May the best woman win.

May the best man win.

Yeah, but Kim, that's a level of self.

awareness and self-security that a lot of people, not just actors,

but all of us, all of us listening don't have.

Where does that come from?

Does that come from parents?

Parents.

Good parents.

Tell us about yourself.

Tell us about

that.

My dad was,

I would call him the king of positive expectations.

He walked into a room expecting that he was going to get great.

A black man, educated,

chosen to educate himself,

walked into a room expecting that good things were going to happen.

He was charming.

He was wise.

He was, you know, beloved.

And just, but not in an entitlement, just like, I'm going to be here and we're going to have a good time.

And I'm going to, hello, how are you today?

That, that, you know, handshake you have.

Yeah.

He's a natural optimist.

Yes.

And my mother also has that same energy of expecting and seeing the good in everyone.

I see you.

I love you.

That's what woo-woo-woo is.

Woo-woo-woo.

Sinclair's catchphrase comes from Bernice Coles.

It means I see you.

I love you.

I acknowledge you.

I'm here for you.

Is your mom, she was woo-woo-woo?

She's, she's the woo-woo-woo.

She's woo-woo-woo at 95.

Yes.

Woo-wooooooooooooooooooooooooohoo, love this.

It's going to be all right.

Yeah.

I love that.

So there's that.

My mother talks weird.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Our mother's very similar, though.

She does stuff like that.

And your mother has woo-woo-wooed my mother.

Your mothers know one of us.

They do.

Yeah, they do.

You know, my mother calls her my precious, how's my precious Erica?

And Sammy.

And how is Sammy?

So anyway, so that's where that comes from.

It's a choice.

It's a choice.

I can go in there on the audition like, good luck, sucker.

Or go, may the best woman win.

Right, right.

Yeah.

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Mish, what's one simple way that you put your health first in your everyday life?

One simple way.

There are many ways.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

One thing that I do is I prioritize my health.

So the first thing that I do on any day is I get my workout in.

What does that entail?

Some days it's tennis.

What about you?

So, mine, thanks to you now, my sister sent me some wonderful yoga mats and

bolsters.

Bolsters that I can do some every day.

I stretch every day before I get my day going.

And then I try to make sure that I get a walk two to four miles every day.

Yeah, flexibility.

I've been hammering with you with that as we get older, we got to keep our ligaments

very pliable.

So I'm so glad you're doing yoga.

I do yoga twice a week, yin yoga, which is a long, deep stretch.

So I prioritize that, but I prioritize sleep.

Yeah.

I am an early to bed, early to rise person, and probably you as well.

I am too.

And

as I've gotten older, I've realized that when I get a good night's sleep, I have a wonderful next day.

So I'm usually in bed by 10.30,

maybe 11.

Yeah.

And then for me, it's diet.

You know, we eat pretty healthy.

You know, we're not

too avid about it.

But whenever we're at home, our meals are clean, simple.

A meat, veggie for me, throwing a carb for Barack.

But diet is everything, especially as I've found that I've gotten older, you know, making sure that it's just clean.

Yeah, yeah.

And then, of course, you know, I'm coaching two basketball teams, so that gives me some exercise at least four times a week.

So I'm really excited about that.

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And Erica, your background, a little different.

A little different, yes.

I was born in Arizona.

Yeah, Highway 60.

And were there seven black people there?

There were seven black people who did it.

Five people.

And then your family.

And five moving there.

That's true.

And I lived, I've been the first,

my father was a preacher, Church of God in Christ.

He later changed to Lutheran.

My mother was the Ministry of Music.

They were like a tag team.

They go around.

Church of God in Christ, you know how that is.

It's like past the plate.

He's itinerant.

He has no home,

no home church.

So he has to go and do revivals.

And so I spent the first 11 years of my life in a hotel called Starlight off of Route 66.

And I'm one of six.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there we were doing our thing.

And

that's where everything comes from.

That's my whole point of view in life, that we depended on the kindness of strangers.

And so my family, out of survival, and my mother taught us that if we spoke well and that we had good manners, that people would take care of us.

So that's how I came up.

He eventually, my father, was recruited by the Lutheran Church.

They sent him to the Lutheran Theological Seminary in Philadelphia.

I was going to a summer program at Freedom Theater.

Freedom Theater was like a place where it was like the new Motown.

They were looking to bring up these city kids and give them a theater background.

And you'd appreciate this because we were basically coached our mind into like being

telling us that we were young.

gifted and black and we did not have the right not to be good and to you know and to be the best and you haven't earned your tiredness i mean they they worked us out and we also got a little performing arts along the side and then the movie came to town and they needed black girls to audition.

And so they

I was 14.

I was 14.

And my mother always said, you take an opportunity where you can.

And so that was an opportunity.

And boom, shakalaka, I go in.

I'm second in line.

And after many auditions and several screen tests, the dust cleared and it was me.

Wow.

It was me.

To have parents who, you know, have sort of the vision and the courage, right, to allow their kids to be creatives,

right?

Because if your parents were making sure you weren't ashy and could speak good English, right?

Just to survive, which there's so much that is said in that truth, right?

Because as black kids, as people, kids who are other,

you would be in danger if you couldn't carry yourself well.

Absolutely.

You know, and that's not because you're living in a remote, but education and the way you present is an armor because they're assuming the worst of us.

Exactly.

Usually, like if you, if you, if you don't speak right, then you probably stole that, you know?

I was harassed in my hotel today.

Yeah.

I was getting, I won't say the name of it.

Yeah.

I was getting my makeup done.

They said, are you here?

You know, you, and I said, why would I be in a, in a room?

And my partner.

But they questioned whether the hotel room was yours.

No, or where it was the space that we were using.

I had permission last night to get in that space.

And the next thing you know, two, one person comes and I said, said, I did get permission.

And then the person comes, I said, I asked you for permission.

Well, are you, you know, do you have a room here?

And I said, why would I be here if I wasn't?

And then when I went back, you know, Ben, my partner, said,

you know, why didn't you tell them you were going to see Michelle Obama?

I said, because I

shouldn't have had it.

He said they should treat everybody with decency and I wouldn't give them the satisfaction.

And he said, but they would have.

And I said, no, it's not about that.

I did everything right.

But the point is, that happens all the time.

And you have to just pick yourself up and say, I do belong here.

Yeah.

And I have the right to be here and explain yourself.

There's so many ways to jack up your

adrenaline and all of that.

And I have to say that being educated and calm,

I'm doing my best to not, you know, be provoked.

That's a defense.

It's a defense.

And it's a skill.

That's a definite.

So your parents, a lot of those parents would say, and you need to be a lawyer or a doctor or this or that, because you also need that armor as you grow.

But both of your parents said, me try this acting thing.

You know.

Reverend Dr.

Clifford Cole said this.

Not really.

Reverend Dr.

Clifford Cole, I know Reverend Dr.

Daddy,

until he left this earth, was still expecting me to matriculate at some point.

So I was going to

speak at a college and he would go, Kimberly, this would be a wonderful, they would give you an opportunity to come back and think, but yes, so we, my, you know, my situation is that I was the first generation that didn't finish college.

So my grandmother went back.

to get her master's in the 50s in her 50s.

So my mother almost has her master's.

My dad has his doctorate and all the things.

So, you know, they were like, this, this entertainment business is really

going to support you.

Oh, you're so funny on TV.

We love telling our neighbors how long we're going to be going back to school.

So, always.

Dad, it's the school of life.

He's so proud and never made me feel as if I was not still loved and appreciated.

And you're doing a great job, but

we're going to go back and get that degree.

My dad kept trying to send me some computer classes from Debry.

Wow.

Yes.

Do you wish you'd have some of those skills now?

Are you kidding?

I wish, are you kidding?

I did not end up going to.

I got into NYU and I dropped out, you know, legitimately to go to the Royal Shakespeare Company tour.

My mother said, You know what?

If you travel around the world, that's its own education.

Go and do that.

And I asked her permission because I knew it would matter to her.

But I have to say, just recently, not too long ago, Bennett College, the smallest HBCU in North Carolina, gave me a doctorate.

And my mother was there and she cried, and I cried like a baby because I knew that she was proud of me.

Do you know how that is?

And I'm walking there, and I didn't know how much it meant to me to not only satisfy her expectations for me, but what it meant was like, oh, I belong here.

Excuse me.

And I'll always be grateful.

Thank you.

I'll always be grateful.

Bless you.

So when did you both know I want to be an actor?

That's what I want to figure out.

How do you do?

I was in my 40s.

I got hypnotized.

Really?

I'm not even lying to you.

I got hypnotized.

I remember

I was in Venice and I went to some hypnotists.

I said, let me go.

And, you know, I'm trying out new things.

I'm always interested.

And they put me under, and I thought this, or the woman did, and I thought, this is not working.

I'm totally not under.

But I told her, you know, something that was in my mind about going in a basement and there was water.

And then I went to a closet and all this other stuff.

And then I came out of it and I was sitting there.

And she said something about being an actress.

And I go, yeah, okay.

She said, what?

Haven't you been doing it for a long time?

And I said, yeah, I guess so.

She said, well, you're an actress.

And I have to say, I hadn't heard it like that.

I got out of there.

What would you think you were doing all these years?

Kim will tell you.

I was always writing my comeback piece.

She was saying, I'm going to my trailer.

I'm going to write my comeback piece.

What do you think you got to do?

I'm going to be single.

But I got in my car and I pulled, I sobbed like a baby because I realized I had not accepted my fate.

Wow.

And it needed her.

And whatever happened in this hypnotism had unlocked this door.

And I cried for 20 minutes straight where I said, you are an actress.

Was it tears of joy?

Were you happy about it?

No, it was tears of recognition.

I was worthy.

Yeah.

You

just maybe suppressed that I couldn't believe.

Yeah.

That you were you.

Yeah.

And maybe my own expectations were not to be an actress.

Yeah.

To be a scientist or something much more legitimate.

Yeah.

And yet this is my life.

Yes.

And I have to say, stop running from it.

Accept it.

You're here and

you're doing well.

I mean, it's not easy, but I was made for it.

I just thought, here's the thing.

You ever see people and they come in and they can play and they can do their thing?

Yeah.

And they have an innate thing for it.

Absolutely.

And then they're either nurtured or they take it on or they don't.

So I had an innate thing for it, but I didn't think that it was my thing.

I just thought, oh, I can do that.

I realize now that fate

serves you up to destiny and you have to accept that.

But I had not accepted it and I needed to.

And so I'm grateful.

So that's when I found out when I was 46.

And I am grateful that

you have because

like this is the thing we do.

Like there are these certain roles and positions.

There's a certain way to live life.

Like, you know.

You can have these positions and that means you're important, you're worthy.

But you, you both have impacted so many people's lives.

There is a ministry and a deep power that has resonated through decades from the work that you've done.

And to not like feel the pride

and the importance of that, I'm like, I want that for you because You've done that for so many people.

I mean, you're sitting here, both of you, and I feel like I know know you.

I've known you,

right?

I mean, little old me.

I mean, little oh,

can I fall out?

But watching through the work that you do, the acting thing that you've done,

the shows you've created, the roles you put out there, you've changed lives.

You know?

Erica needed a little bit of mom because my mom would have said to you that

all of the kids in our neighborhood could have done all of the stuff that we did.

We were all talented.

We were all talented.

She would have told you,

she wouldn't have hypnotized you.

But she would have told you how talented you are, not just as an actor, an actress,

but as a person.

And it comes out of you in

your

generosity generosity

of your talent.

And that's what I can see looking back at

living single and then what you've done since.

And then what you're doing now sort of

for the

for the industry and for young folks.

And

you just need my mom would have.

Your mother did just tell me that.

All right, now you got to give it

all four of us will be doing that.

Is that what was happening in your household?

Thank you.

Well,

it's the good enough piece of it.

I mean, we touched on it.

Shoot, the hotel incident this morning, right?

Come on.

Is the constant reminder to us as people of color, as women.

You know, it's the thing your parents taught us that we have to prove that we're good enough.

You were in Ivy League School.

Yes.

And you talk about proving yourself to me.

I had to prove to people that, you know, my husband and I are still proving proving that we were legitimate people to run the country, you know, that we were good enough to be the president and the first lady.

I mean, that, that psychological thing, that's not, that, that's not in our heads.

It's, it's happened

and it continues to happen.

For sure.

How did you ground into that?

How did you, you know?

Well, like you, you guys

said, it's like you're sort of in the school of believing in yourself.

You know, it's like we, our communities, our families, the people who know better, right?

They indoctrinate us into this, you are black and proud.

You are good enough.

And it's almost, you have to replace all those other daily messages, daily slights, daily micro aggressions with these positive messages.

And somewhere in there is your raw talent.

is the rawness of who you in that motel running around speaking proper English.

the Erica and the Kims, the essence of you is always there.

And you know that when you were a kid.

And

we were fortunate to have parents who poured into us that we could do whatever we wanted to do.

And it's still hard.

You're still out.

But

it's funny.

There's this level of...

And

people use the term imposter syndrome, and I don't think it's imposter syndrome.

That's not what I'm feeling.

It's more of a,

you just got to prove myself.

Always, every day.

You never know.

Year after year.

And my mom would be like, you shouldn't be worried about what people think.

Right.

But you worry about what people think.

I'm glad you said it's not imposter syndrome because I always felt like I don't feel like an imposter, but I just don't know if people have shaped what that is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We may have to do another show.

You come home.

You got to.

There's a lot of people talking about that.

Now, I've always said that real imposters don't have that syndrome.

We all know a whole lot of imposters.

We don't have any doubt whatsoever.

They got it going on.

It's like, it's not the imposters who have that problem.

And so, why should we doubt?

Or why should we, you know, because life does what life does.

It's just a little reminder of maybe you don't really belong here.

Maybe you're not good enough.

Well, we also don't give ourselves permission to have joy.

You know, I mean, you start with my mom.

Now she had a rough, right?

You know, because that's also where we are, you know, as hard as we may have it,

you know, as

black folks, you know, we, we have it better.

And the generations have always improved, even though we still have a long way to go, but it makes it difficult.

to enjoy it, right?

You feel like, have we, have we earned the claim?

Is it now enough?

Is it now enough?

Is it, is it, is it enough?

My gosh.

And this is part of what I've been trying to unravel.

When is it enough?

When can I sort of rest a little bit at, you know, not just as me, but as a 60-year-old woman?

When can I finally look and go, I have done a lot and I've done enough.

I mean, that doesn't mean I'm stopping, but I have really done enough.

And when, if not now, am I going to be able to look on my accomplishments and say, good job.

And maybe those are the tears.

The tears are like, Erica, good freaking job.

Good job.

Good job.

And you didn't need the PhD to do it.

But there's no ceremony for that.

Like, there's no walking across the aisle of congratulations.

Right.

You are a wonderful human being.

Right.

A woman in the world who's done something powerful.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And I think that brings tears.

The tears of relief that maybe I'm, maybe, maybe it's enough.

It's enough.

The pride of it, too, because we're always told be humble.

I'm pride of it.

I'll be humble.

That's what I hear in you.

Fall into the ground.

That's right.

You know?

Yeah.

And yet we come from also

people from Muhammad Ali on that had to say who they were and tell the world that they were great.

You know, the rappers, they come out with, you know, you coach, you got to, your mindset is everything.

Yeah.

First one.

Confidence.

Yes, black women.

and often we're not told that.

Oh, and when we do it, then we're being uppity.

And who should they?

She would be embossing.

We're being a problem.

Yeah.

We're being complicated.

Yes.

Yes.

Difficult.

I've been told that several times.

And I always, it hurts my heart.

I'm like, really?

I said, well, after a while, I was like, well, I guess I am.

Is it difficult or is it commanding respect?

Is it difficult or is it

having boundaries?

Or I like to call them peaceful perimeters.

Peaceful perimeters.

A peaceful perimeter.

Because boundaries sounds like what sounds like a new unworthy.

Everything out.

Peaceful perimeter says this is what I will allow in.

And then you may, you're not welcome here.

Off you go.

That's your girdle.

Your girdle is exactly a perimeter.

Sometimes it is not peaceful at all.

It is not peaceful at all.

So it is even.

You all know how much I love staying in Airbnbs.

I just got to DC and I found yet another one.

It's right smack dab in the middle of Georgetown.

And the best feature about this place is the rooftop patio.

I mean, you get fantastic views of Georgetown.

And what else I like about this location, it is walkable to a bunch of places.

I ate dinner in Georgetown, was able to walk home.

I can walk and get coffee first thing in the morning, and it's really close to where we're recording.

And like most Airbnbs, it has all of the comforts of home, kitchen, laundry, and especially during these hot days, it's got air conditioning.

Don't tell anybody, but I've made use of the hot tub.

Airbnb makes it super easy to find what I'm looking for.

So next time you're booking a trip, be like me and book an Airbnb.

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Erica, we were not ready for your answer.

That was an appreciated.

But I want to hear from...

Kim.

What now?

I want to hear, when did you feel like you were going to be an entertainer?

Because, you know,

stand-up comedy,

it's hard.

Yeah, but like, what makes you say, I'm going to get, I'll see, and I'm going to be funny to all y'all.

Because I know I'm funny.

I think I'm funny.

We all think we're funny, but it's a funny thing.

No, no,

we all

think we're funny, but we don't all think we could stand up in front of people and be funny.

Really, it started for me in high school.

Okay.

I didn't know what I was building, but I was building.

So I was the chubby girl.

And going into high school, I was, you know, 14, I was clear.

I was like,

the fat girl in high school doesn't always fare so well.

You get teased and you, you know, you're weird, you know, chubby, whatever that is.

And so I thought, I know what I'll do.

If I make them laugh with me instead of at me, then nobody will ever call me fat.

because I've already told the jokes.

I've already made them laugh.

And I've already deflected.

I call it a peaceful permit.

I've already said, don't look at this look at this and comedy is actually a connector yes and I know that now from standing on stage and watching an audience there's nothing more thrilling for me and I don't do stand-up as much as I used to I've now morphed into being a speaker and I still use some of those same bits as a speaker

There's a connection that happens.

The audience is connecting to you because they're laughing or listening.

And often audience members turn to each other and laugh.

And there's a way of connection.

And so I was avoiding being called the chubby girl, but what I was was really

doing was creating a connection.

So years later, when I dropped in and out of college about three times,

1985 was the first time I stepped on a stage and tried this thing.

I would write my little jokes and perform because I felt that that connection.

You guys picked a hard industry.

Yeah.

You know, and I want to talk a little bit about that because

You showed your Shakespearean abilities.

You showed the ability to to work in a team, in an ensemble.

You showed the comedy.

You showed the drama.

You showed the, and you lasted.

Tell us, and then what?

And

tell us about

the environment.

And the segregation of television.

Yeah.

Officially.

We were number one.

You were about to say.

We were number one in African-American households for all five seasons.

You always remind me that we were number one in Latino households.

Not to mention, I always tell the story of the little Jewish man in the bank who grabbed my arm, like, I love you girls.

You girls are so beautiful.

I love you, girl.

I love the queen.

Give the queen my desk.

I love you, girl.

And so lots of people loved us, although we were relegated and segregated.

Yeah.

And yet

something happened that I think was intentional or not.

It happened.

Everything changed.

And they started to create different cable.

networks that had to build their audience.

We were already on one, which was the Fox Channel.

channel, and we helped build that network.

Literally, uh, Tisha Campbell, Sheena, all of them, Mark, Living Color, Living Color,

Living Single, um, all of that.

Timmy Fox show, was he on

Timmy Fox was on the CW, so that's what happened.

Everything started to shift and place shows with black cast.

Now,

you Kim, you'll say black shows, and I don't say that.

I say shows with black cast

in those spaces, not for nothing.

You could solely see everything sort of bleed off the page.

And there's a problem with that because that means that we're not getting in the mainstream anymore.

We're not giving the opportunity of marketing and sponsorship that that can afford.

And so

you're also, the value goes down.

So when I was growing up, when we're all growing up, the Jeffersons, what's happening, all of that was run.

You'd see MASH, you'd see the Jeffersons, you'd see blah, blah, blah.

No one ever called the Jeffersons a black show.

You just called it the Jefferson.

You certainly didn't call the Cosby Show a Black Show.

It was a show.

Suddenly, we were black shows, and that went away.

And I think it messed up everything in terms of momentum because we had the huge form of momentum again with fresh prints, family matters, all of these things.

So, what happened was everything changed.

And if you don't have anybody funding these things,

but when you say everything changed,

usually when they're success begets success, especially in Hollywood, well, what exactly changed?

Was it the executives?

Was it cultural?

Was it political?

Was it too much success?

There you go.

Too much success.

It's not the first time that that's happened, that there's too much success.

And then suddenly somebody pulls the rug out underneath.

So just around 2000, things shifted.

And, you know, I remember somebody telling me a memo, but that they wanted things lighter and brighter.

And that meant the end of us.

Now, was it the money?

I mean,

with the more success, were you negotiating as a cast for more, for more?

No, we didn't even know to do that.

I mean, and there's no way we were always in the black.

There was no way that we could be too much money for the budgets they gave us.

We were always operating the black.

We were very successful in syndication from the get-go.

It was just, it was just...

I understand because

we had a new network president come in and then decided to just change the complexion of

the network.

And it didn't work.

It didn't work.

You've now lost the audience.

You know, you've lost this audience that you've built up, that's built trust.

Like, this is where I come if I want this kind of show.

And it just, and, you know, we didn't go away altogether, but it was the rug was pulled out.

Misha and I talked about, we talked about this a little bit beforehand because

right after you all show, Friends comes out.

Oh, yeah, the year, the year after us.

It's like,

come on.

Yes.

Yes.

And what we talked about is the opportunities for another successful show like that for the folks who ended that one.

Oh, they went on to do it.

They were very different.

And I

was just through the roof.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think

it would be nice for our listeners to hear your thoughts on that because

I think I know what they are, but

it's noticeable for me from the outside, looking in, right?

Noticeable for

and as good as friends could have been.

I was, I had like a, you know, I felt a certain way, so I didn't watch it because of y'all's show.

Oh, wow, Craig is true to this.

It's true to this.

Ain't new to this.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

It's true that

often

Black people in performing arts start things, whether it's from Elvis Presley on,

that are imitations of other things.

And that's certainly what happened there.

It just happened to be that we were at the same

production.

And so it was quite obvious.

It's what happens all the time.

The problem is that you could also see the type of investment they were making versus what they were making with us.

And that to me is the frustrating thing that is systemic and

we fight all over.

People think because you're in showbiz that you are spoiled and you're getting all of these things.

And one of the things that we did the podcast for is we wanted people to know us as people, to sort of see us as people who were inside of a corporate structure.

And if that corporate structure exists in America, it is probably built on the same,

you know,

flawed foundation that all these structures, I mean, industries are built on.

You know, we talk about people not funding black women.

Less than 1% of venture capitalism goes into, capital goes into black women's business.

Well, Yvette Lee Bowser, Black woman's business.

We are black.

I mean, you have an agent and a manager and you have thing.

You're a small business.

So am I.

That's what we're getting in a way.

Sure, we're the lucky ones and it looks fortunate, but we have this same.

Yeah, and it's and it's it's hard to talk about.

When I say it's hard to talk about, because what happens is people end up going, hey, you're lucky and this and this and that.

I said, well, I didn't say that we weren't fortunate.

I'm saying that the downward pressure of wages is real everywhere.

And so if you want to talk about it,

you know, outside of being famous, then you can, but just because I'm famous, don't make it less true.

And so we do have an issue.

It's true.

Well,

Hollywood is, it's a subjective business, right?

You know,

you know, we now have a production company.

We're getting a taste of it.

But there are decision makers, right?

And people tend to make decisions around whether they think they're expert or not.

It's based on their taste.

Oh, for sure.

And it's hard to convince some of these heads and the green green lighters to understand that they have an inherent bias to pick things that they like,

which is why you want diversity in these seats of power.

Because yes, you're a white guy, you like sports and you like women that look a certain way, or maybe you think this is funny.

That's just one perspective.

But I, as a black woman, as a woman who's seen this or that, I can tell you that this is interesting.

And there's a whole pool of people that will pay money.

You can make money off of these people.

But in the end, who's going to, who makes the decision?

The person in charge who decides ultimately, am I going to go with your opinion or with mine?

And if when you're in charge, you'd go with your opinion.

And I see that happening time and time again at all,

you know, in all industries, in all sectors.

And their opinion is going to bankrupt the industry because you're the future.

There's no doubt about it.

Yeah, they don't speak to a whole market.

I had that challenge even with my book, Writing Becoming.

Great publishers, supportive.

My book tour was my idea.

You know, it wasn't like

the publishers said, you know what?

You could go on a 32-city book tour.

I was like, well, you know, there are a lot of people out there who are interested in the story and the conversation.

I said, I bet we could do something bigger than that.

Right.

And so we had this huge book tour that nobody had ever done before.

Because guess what?

I don't know that a lot of people in the industry realized there were that many women and women of color who had that kind of disposable income

where they would.

There you go.

Many.

There were people, I was in Denmark and there were like, there was a group of sisters from Detroit in the VIP line.

Yeah.

And my first thing was like, Danish, Danish, Danish since

my whole thing was like, what are y'all doing here?

And they were like, girl, we wanted to meet you.

The tickets in Detroit were sold out.

Wow.

We saved up.

We bought money.

They came to Denmark.

From Detroit to Denmark.

I said, well, what else are you doing in Denmark?

They were like, we don't know.

Right.

But we came to see you and then we'll see you in some of Denmark.

And I was like, you also.

Right.

But if that's happening for Michelle Obama.

But then this is

not invested in.

Yeah, but after that, that's nuts.

Then what was the next big book tour?

What was the next?

The audience is there.

And this is what you try to convince the decision makers.

It's like, wow, you don't know me.

You don't know my audience.

But if you're the decision maker and it's not your data.

And that means they don't have the vision.

No, it's not their experience.

They don't even believe.

Like, it's the same thing that makes you cry.

Because sometimes you just feel like you just don't see me right you you don't

see me no matter what i do right

you still don't see me and it's because and i'm i'm not me it's not because you don't want to and you can't say that to folks because they feel like no that's not who i am and it's like it is not who you are but it's not who you are in your heart but it's but your experiences have made it impossible for you to understand that you really are only seeing the things that you believe.

You want to believe it.

So I'm asking you, I'm asking us, what happens to to get visionaries in those

visionaries or people who will take the risk?

Because it's not going to risk you.

You've proven it.

Wakanda proved it.

Homeboy of

sinners proved it.

Like we prove it over and over and over again.

So what does it take to find the visionaries in those places who will say yes, who will green light something, who will keep taking that.

And it ain't a risk and it ain't a chance.

You need diversity.

Yeah.

You know,

the bad word of the

decade.

We call it DEI.

It's been castigated.

It's been demonized.

But it's essentially just saying that you just need a lot of different people in the rooms, in decision-making rooms, not out of some favor, but as a business strategy.

This is just business.

It's just,

you would rather miss money.

Right.

That, you know, like that.

You just said they'll, yeah.

Everybody used to always say, oh, never.

They'll always get their money, their money.

I said, that's actually not necessarily true.

If you leave billions of dollars on the table, that can do good for people.

Or believing that a movie won't play overseas.

Yeah, that's right.

Of course it will.

We've proven it.

The data is there.

But that's why diversity matters.

It just.

We just all have different experiences.

That's all.

That's all it is.

It's just, we have different tastes

and there's money to be made in all of it.

But if the tastemakers look a certain way, then the shows tend that get promoted, that get marketed, that get the opportunity.

You know, that's where the money goes.

To me, this is Jurassic age.

It's falling apart.

It's meant to.

It can't go on.

I mean, I love Reverend Barbara.

I quote him all the time.

Your friend Reverend Barbara calls this the third reconstruction.

And so if it is, that means these foundations have to be redone.

And we are architects of the third reconstruction.

There are already palim cests.

There's new investors and new people.

There's Core Jefferson, American fiction.

There's Jordan Pill, who's doing,

you know,

get out.

There's Alicia Harris, amazing.

I just did a film with her, Is God Is.

They are not playing.

I needed them to come and find me and say, invite me to play, not even have me audition say, I know what she can do.

I know she can do this role.

And, and then, come on, let's do it.

Tell us about the lives you've created for yourselves in the midst of rejection and waiting and all of this, because you both are standing up back straight, looking good.

So you figured something out.

Yes, we are.

And they were liar.

And

my good hair.

We said you started it.

Why don't you keep going?

Yeah, I am

after living single ended, and I went into a depression um

because there wasn't work, I wasn't working, hadn't quite figured out what else I could do.

I audition here and there, not getting anything.

And sometimes you reach a certain level and they go, Well, she wouldn't take this job.

I might have, or you, whatever that is.

And so, um, going into this space of what else can I do?

What else?

Because I don't know how to type, I can't cook, I can't sing.

I didn't go to Devry.

I didn't go to Devry taking computer classes.

I dropped in out of college a hundred times.

I don't know that I can make a living doing this.

And so I

moved over.

It's like taking your gifts and talents and skills and going like, where else can they be placed?

So if I'm a stand-up comedian, I can be a speaker.

And so I immersed myself into what it means to become a...

a speaker on stage, an impactful speaker, deciding what type of speaking I would do, taking some of my comedy bits and working them into inspiration so that I'm inspiring.

And And then, you know, eventually learning that I really wanted to help people transform their lives.

So not just rah-rah, or which is nothing wrong with that, or being encouraging or engaging, but to also go like, what can we do to transform our thinking, our mindset, our soul, our soul and the work.

So you're an educator.

I became, my mother wanted me to be a teacher.

I was like, I don't want to be a teacher.

And then I became a teacher.

So that's what I've been doing.

And that's why there's a,

hopefully you feel a groundedness.

I go like, it's not, I'm sorry that these other things, I'm, while I can fight the powers that be, I can also be the power in my own,

of my own choosing.

Right.

So, so that's what I'm doing, what I'm doing for now.

Color Farm Media.

That's my company.

I started it 10 years ago with my partner Ben Arnon.

We met at the 2008 DNC convention night.

He was a delegate for your husband, Mr.

Obama.

And

I was a delegate for Hillary.

I was Hillary Clinton's most traveled surrogate.

The other side.

The other side, the other side.

I was the one who was going to come out and tell us.

You know, the funny thing, it made me a better voter all over to understand it, you know, how it happens.

And up until that point, I hadn't.

What made you get involved in politics?

I mean, a lot of people run.

Okay.

Poverty.

Say that a little bit louder.

Poverty.

Poverty.

You talk about hard times.

It's real.

Anyway, we started the company.

We get a call from John Lewis's office.

We heard that you have a production company.

Would you like to do a documentary on the Congressman?

I said, well, I'd sweep his floors.

I don't care what he needs me to do.

And

through

that

avenue came our first opportunity as a company.

Okay.

John Lewis could trouble.

And then after that, we did a documentary about reparations, Evanston, Illinois, with

Alderwoman Robin Ruth Simmons and Sheila Jackson Lee with H.R.

40 and all these things.

And it just kept pushing us in places where I thought, look, this is not only opportunity, but we're telling history.

We're getting an opportunity to do that.

But I think ultimately we're starting to realize that this world may not change as fast as we need to, and we need to find a different avenue.

And we're seeking other borders.

Well, and you know, I listen to that and I think, well, maybe that's also where the tears are coming from.

Because it's like to go from

the power that

your characters in Living Single had in the world, right?

And I remember I heard in an interview that you were like, well, I was Maxine Shaw, but I wasn't a lawyer.

I didn't go to law school,

you know.

But you were, you all were showing

so many of us, because I was a lawyer at the time.

By the time I didn't know, we weren't

very much so.

And Living Single was out.

I was

like a first, second-year associate at a corporate law firm.

So

I was living there.

You were also a dean too.

I was an associate dean at the University of Chicago when that was going on.

So there were, you know.

We didn't need to lift your sights, you know, with others.

But making us visible.

Yeah, because that character hadn't existed before.

We have Felicia Rashad,

but not in a comedy and this kind of thing.

And it was a different strength in her becoming.

Yeah, it was.

It was definitely a different strength.

Yeah.

I mean, you were single.

You were sexual.

You were, you know,

you were brash.

You were annoying.

Yes.

You were, you know, all of that.

Right now.

You know,

unapologetic black women had to be nice or kind or you know maxine was like an unapologetic

you know which was reflective of what a lot of us had to be in order to be in those spaces um and you were changing lives then and both of you all are still doing that um

today and have managed to maintain yourselves and your presence and still think creatively and powerfully about how to be impactful in the world.

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Well,

speaking of being impactful,

IMO is all about having our listeners submit a question.

And

we have a question from a listener that I think would be ideal for the two of you to help us answer.

And it comes from Amanda in Tucson, Arizona.

She's from AZ.

ACLA.

Okay.

Home state.

Hi, I'm Amanda.

Thank you so much for taking my question.

As a woman in my mid-40s, okay, I'm 45, I'm struggling with the concept of time.

I want to do so much in this world, but it feels like time is flying by.

And unfortunately, you can't just snap your fingers and have all your dreams come true.

So how do you handle this nagging feeling that you're running out of time and that your life might not mean as much as you want it to?

Similarly, how do you know that you're doing enough, that you're making enough of a difference while you're here?

Thank you.

I love you both.

It's almost as if she was sitting right there.

It's true.

We're going to need a cocktail face.

Rewind this episode and

existential dread.

It has throughout your life.

You're going to have it, I believe.

And I also believe that

as a story, in my, as a character, in my own story, I keep feeling that I am coming of age all the time.

I hear you waiting to grow up.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, this is, this is it.

They make story after story after people who come to this thing and realize, wait a minute,

I got to get it.

I can feel that tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

And if I don't,

I won't be able, I mean, I won't be able, I'll regret too much.

And I think that for me,

I see that in every, in so many stories, like everything

all at once, everything everywhere all at once.

You see that in

death of a salesman.

He's sitting up there and wondering, what did I do with my life?

So I'd like to say to

Amanda.

You're right where you need to be if you're there, because that means that if you're thinking that way, that you must be making an impact.

People who don't make impact don't think that way.

And so I'm hoping that you're looking at the ways that you might have made impact.

And I do believe that in a way you are right.

Time's passing by.

You're probably doing better than you think.

Ditto, next slide, please.

So

many things that you touched on, same things I would say.

First of all, I think it's a noble question.

I think there's a nobility and a courage in even asking that.

How do I know?

I think she says she has a nagging feeling.

How do you know that this is enough?

And I think also because she's asking that question

means that there is more to be experienced.

She's willing and allowing something to come through.

And I always say that everything you want wants you back.

Everything you want wants you back.

And because she wants it, it wants her to fulfill, to step into it.

And I think a lot of times the things that we want,

we're so busy, like living life and trying to keep up and looking at other folks that we don't even stop to notice

those things that have already mattered to us, already been meaningful, already

been impactful.

So instead of looking all out there to look within, so slow down and look in and get quiet and go like, what do I really want to do?

What happens when I show up and do this and this and this?

What is the impact on people?

And how can I just keep doing more of that?

It may not even be something new.

It's something that she's obviously already doing.

And be, I always call it the sort of the pebble in the pond.

You know, we think it has to be a big impact.

It has the pebble creates all those ripples.

So allow yourself to be that pebble in the pond.

And the impact sometimes.

You know, you talked about fame and being famous and people think that they want that.

But I think what people really want is to be significant and to be meaningful.

And sometimes it's your kids that are watching.

It's your nieces and nephews that are watching.

And the impact that you've created for them is enough to create more of the ripple.

And so she may not stand on stages like we all have, but she's created an impact knowing that I said a word to someone and that made them think differently.

And then they went and changed their life.

And just to allow that to

allow is my word.

Allow it to

unfold.

Do you want to add a...

A brief thing in there because I'm just

summing it up.

No, no, no.

I'm summing it up.

So know that you're enough.

Yeah.

Right.

You know that you're enough.

That's that's one thing.

And this one's really good that I'm going to take away is slow down to speed up because that we use that on the court.

Oh, yes.

We use that on the court.

Slow down to speed up.

Don't you have to train and stretch the muscle and get it ready so that then you can sprint or

go fast to go slow and go slow to go fast.

It's just change your pace and realize that there's some positivity there.

And then the final thing you said, Kim, was

a little is really a lot.

A little can be a lot.

It can be a lot.

If you're fortunate enough to be able to do something great, beautiful.

But that doesn't mean that if you do something little, it's insignificant.

For sure.

Yeah.

That's how I feel.

Thank you.

Some of the moments I remember most as First Lady, it wasn't the cover of a magazine or the speech that I gave.

It was usually a conversation that I had in a photo line with a kid that was shy,

that nobody saw, and that you could, with a hug and a couple of words and a like, I see you,

you'd see them walk to you one way and walk away a totally different person.

You like could see it.

And it would be like, if I could do that every day and nobody's looking, you know, that, those were the, that's when I felt like I had an impact, you know.

Sounds to me like you're talking about doing less but being more yeah yeah well you know what's been impactful having the two of you here hey all right now well before we before my you know my brother's into always wrap-up mode but i do want to i do want to find out what do y'all do this is this is when is your birthday i know she's a capricorn what are you it's april 21st oh you're a tourist he's a tourist it's the first

time i'm with the tourists yeah i'm yeah i get it like come on all right all this talking i know know, right?

But there's a time limit, and we have other things to do.

We don't want to.

I do want to know.

Use your time.

But I do want to know what do y'all, you know, what do y'all, what are you, what are you reading, watching now?

Reality TV?

Is sci-fi a thing for you guys?

What, what's your, what's your guilty cultural pleasure?

I'm not trying to kiss the ring, but later dater, I love

that

show.

Aspirational.

Right, aspirational.

And the women are beautiful.

The guys got their, you know, got their hookups.

And I, I love that show.

So I, so I don't watch a lot of the more, what I would call more the negative, because I also, I've done enough reality shows to know that it's nothing real about it.

It's, you know, orchestrated and structured in a way for you to have, you know, certain reactions.

I've done, I've done looking at me.

You're like,

I've done a few.

It was like, you know, you live in a house for two weeks with Dennis Rodman, the surreal life, the surreal life.

Also a tourist, by the way.

He's the sweetest man.

Oh, he's darling.

He's a doll baby.

But anyway, so not that, but later daters.

Love it.

Are you doing more seasons?

Since I'm working on this, we're working on one.

It's up to the powers that be.

Tomorrow has got to come through.

I just work so much.

I wish I could

sit here.

I've gotten a chance to see sinners.

four or five times.

Yeah.

And I'm like that.

Like I went to go see MJ eight times.

Like I'll see something over and over again as if you could digest it and

become it.

But

no,

I have to do more to like just pay attention.

I'd like to read more.

This has been

a real

delight.

A real treat.

A dream of a lifetime.

And frankly, so grateful for all the work that you do in the world.

And more importantly, putting something like this out so we can meet you in this way is huge.

It kind of lifts the veil.

And that's beautiful.

It's been an

honor, a delight, revealing, easy.

Yeah.

and just kind of what i expected would happen like i'm sure you can get along and all yeah i have a brother that i bought a story that they didn't know which

you know

that yeah you know well so proud of it that you can get along well enough to want to play in the stage can you imagine enough i could do this with my brother well just show it it can happen

you know goals right and just

it's happening right now it's happening right now well we're proud of you all you two thank you and the entire cast so please send it they will everyone our love, congratulations on all the ways that you both are becoming, continuing to become.

It has been a treat.

Y'all are some funny, smart women.

And more to come.

Just keep doing some stuff.

We'll do this again.

Oh, less, less, less.

With different hair next time.

That's right.

Got different hair.

Hey there, it's Michelle and Craig.

On our IMO podcast, we've brought in some incredible guests to answer your burning questions and share our opinions about the things that matter to all of us.

Like what success looks like in different families with Glennon Doyle, why we all need to learn how to say no with Taraji P.

Henson, and how failure can actually make you better in your career with our friend Kiki Palmer.

We hope you'll all listen in every week.

And did you know that you can hear the show on Amazon Music?

Just open the Amazon Music app and search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson today.