Kayfabeas Corpus Live in Turners Falls MA

It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

With me is Judge John Hodgman.

This week's episode of our program was recorded at the Shea Theater in Turners Falls, Massachusetts.

What an amazing show we had there in Turners Falls, Western Massachusetts, one of my many beloved hometowns.

Our summertime fun time, Bailiff Monty Belmonte, was there, and we had two actual pro wrestlers talk about a dispute instead of taking it to the ring.

Friend of the show, Perry Von Vicious, brought his wrestling best pal, Delmy Exo, to court, and it was a blast.

Let's go to the stage at the Shea.

People of Turner's Falls, you asked us for live justice, and we are here to deliver it.

The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

Let's bring out our litigants.

Please welcome to the stage Perry von Vicius and Delmi Exo.

Tonight's case, Cay Fabius Corpus.

Perry Von Vicius brings the case against his friend Delme Exo.

They're both professional wrestlers here in New England, a place that I have never heard of.

In fact, Perry used to be Delme's trainer, but now he says the student has become the master.

He wants to meet Delmi in the ring just once before he retires.

But Delmy refuses to fight.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

In the middle of nowhere, the thunderous roar of the sacred ocelot was heard.

The The Jaguar God cried out to the heavens for the presence of the one who would adorn civilization with glory.

The tale of a comet illuminated the horizons.

While the high priest looked into the infinite, it foretold the arrival of a fierce, noble, brave podcast judge with an enormous spirit and an indomitable heart.

The depths of the universe opened like infinite windows.

The mask covering his face was surrounded by flashing halos that obscured all darkness.

And Judge John Hodgman emerged into podcasting on November 8th, 2010, 14 years ago today.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Perry and Delmey, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite despite the fact that he is the international undisputed title holder in not wrestling?

I do.

I do because I know I'm going to win.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Perry and W, you may be seated.

Before I allow you to guess, I just want to say that speaking in that fashion caused me to get a cramp in my ribs that I'm dealing with right now.

Yeah, you went in.

I went in a little hard.

I went in a little hard.

Okay, okay.

Well, for an immediate summary, Judgment, one of your favorites, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom, Perry?

Why don't you guess first?

It sounded like

a Judge Hodgman-specific version of the intro to the Japanese anime Kanikuman?

A Judge Hodgman-specific version to the Japanese anime Kanikuman.

I don't know that anime, but it was a good guess as far as I'm concerned.

It's about pro-wrestling.

Oh, okay.

That makes sense.

On topic, very good.

Boy, my rib hurts.

Delme, what is your guess?

Wait, is that the one that muscles come from?

Yes.

Millions of unusual small creatures lurking everywhere?

Yes.

Those little pink guys.

Oh, man.

Yeah, you know what?

I'm going to lie down for a little bit while you guys talk about that.

Delme, what's your guess?

I'm going to guess Shrek 2.

Shrek 2.

Also a good guess.

It wouldn't be Shrek 1.

That's too obvious.

Yeah, no, right, exactly.

Well, all guesses are wrong.

I did change a few words to incorporate me, Judge John Hodgman, when in fact that quote is from the bio page on the website, www.guerreromaya.com, the official website of the Mexican mass wrestler El Guerrero Maya Jr., also known as Samba, also known as Multifacetetico, sorry, multifacetetico.

You know El Guerrero Maya, don't you?

I know him indirectly.

So years ago, I went to Mexico City, and my friend, the professional wrestler, Colt Colt Cabana, sent me a text message and he said, Jesse, you're going to Mexico City.

You've got to go to the Lucha.

Are you going to the Lucha, which is the Mexican wrestling?

And I said, I guess I wasn't really planning to.

I was going to go to like the archaeological museum, Colt.

And he said, look, I wrestle with some guys that wrestle in the big arena in Mexico City.

I'm going to send a couple messages.

I'm going to get you some tickets.

And I ended up corresponding on Twitter with El Guerrero Maya.

And my Spanish is very poor, and he had no English.

So we were like translating, but Google translating back and forth on Twitter DMs.

And it turned out he was going to be out of town the weekend that I was there.

But he said, but I live right near your hotel.

I'll bring tickets by.

I'll drop them off for you.

I was like, you don't have to do that, El Guerrero Maya.

And he's like, I'd love to.

It's no problem.

So we got to our hotel.

And it was like a little, like a five-room hotel with just one like innkeeper.

And she's explaining to us all the different parts of the hotel, you know, where to do everything.

And then she says,

Oh, she's speaking to us in English, she says, Oh, I forgot.

And then she says,

A man left you this.

And then she goes, She goes, He says his name is El Guerre Romaya, but he's just a man.

A brush with wrestling greatness.

As we are having right now here on stage.

Perry Von Vicious, you have been featured in the show before.

You are a professional wrestler.

Perry Von Vicious is your wrestling name.

That's right.

You are also known as the human monster truck.

Yes.

And you are also known.

You are also known as a weird wrestling name.

You're also known as former second grade teacher.

Yes, I was a second grade teacher in Oakland, California.

And when did your students find out that you were a wrestler?

They found out probably halfway through the year, but

I didn't find out that they found out till like the last week of school when one of the parents stooged out that they all watched me on YouTube.

You must have been the most popular teacher in school at that point.

I mean, it was unbeknownst to me, but apparently, yeah.

Delmi, tell me about your journey into wrestling.

My journey into wrestling, well, I was probably like four, three years into wrestling before I finally crossed paths with Perry.

You're in Western Massachusetts?

I'm in Western Massachusetts.

I'm from the New England area.

I grew up in Rhode Island, and now I currently live in East Hampton.

Okay, cool.

I believe that's the wrestling epicenter of Western Massachusetts.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And actually, at the point that I met Perry, I was really ready to hang up my boots.

And then what happened?

What changed?

His positivity and his friendship and really seeing something in me that I didn't see in myself.

Is it true that

he trained you?

You did some training with him?

Yeah, he kind of brought me back up from the ground.

Well, I'm glad to hear that.

I mean, like, physically lifted you off over his head and spun you around.

He dropped me down with a body slam and then held me back up.

Ah, got it, exactly right.

And now you're wearing the t-shirt.

You run this wrestling promotion, correct?

Called the,

what is it, Pro Wrestling Grind?

Pro Wrestling Grind out in East Hampton.

I run this with my partner, Rip Bison.

And

what is a wrestling promotion and what is Pro Wrestling Grind?

Do you, Rip Bison, take?

Almost.

What is a, I mean, for those who don't know, including me,

what is Pro Wrestling Grind all about?

And what is a promotion?

Pro Wrestling Grind is about

really pushing through and finding that perseverance in yourself to get to that next level.

You might not have like the biggest opportunity or the biggest stage every weekend, but when you're at grind, it feels like that.

The crowd is just so involved and they're so there for you and watching you like fulfill your dreams in front of them.

And you have events?

How often?

We run about once a month.

Once a month?

In East Hampton and then...

But Perry, you travel around, maybe you both travel around New England quite a bit.

And you've been wrestling in Japan recently, correct?

Yeah, actually, Delme also has wrestled in Japan and Germany as well.

Yeah, we wrestle everywhere.

It sounds like your career couldn't be going better for a former second-grade teacher who is now a professional wrestler on the international stage, and yet it says here that you're considering retiring.

I turned 40 back in July.

But you're a young man.

I didn't really necessarily picture myself wrestling well into my 40s.

Uh-huh.

And are you starting to slow down physically?

You're kind of a weakling, right?

Actually, I'm probably in the best shape I've ever been in.

And according to Del Me and Rip and a lot of my closest friends in wrestling, I'm probably having the best matches I've ever had.

And so when are you thinking of retiring then?

And what timeframe?

Honestly, I've kind of passed the timeframe I talked about.

I'd sort of said forever that unless I was signed to a major company, I would be done at 40.

Right.

And that's never going to happen.

It's time for you to give up your dream.

All dreams must stop.

The pursuit of happiness ends at 40.

You're absolutely right.

Time to get serious.

I mean, there's a children, there's a child in the audience who needs to hear this.

Your dreams die the moment you turn 40.

Oftentimes they die at 25.

TikTok.

Yeah, that's right.

A lot of times you're like 35 years old.

You're on the top of the blogging world.

People from Discovery call you into their office, and when you turn down their show, the head of Discovery Networks takes you out to sushi, which you don't even like, to try and convince you to take the pilot.

What you don't know is that you'll be bald almost immediately thereafter.

These are the exact kinds of things that happen as you grow up, Eli.

Get ready.

Now that you are planning the end of your career as a professional wrestler, Perry, you have a list of things that you would like to do, a bucket list, a wrestling bucket list.

What are some of the things on the list?

I mean, I'd like to do something on national TV in the States.

No, it's not going to happen.

Fair enough.

You mean be on who wants to be a millionaire?

I'm not sure how I make it happen, but I'd like to meet Weird Al Yankovic.

I could make that happen.

I've been to his house.

Yeah.

He's a nice guy.

Yeah, he's really nice.

It's a nice house.

I'm telling you, you've got to throw away your TV dreams.

It's all podcasting.

And

you want to meet Weird Al, you start a podcast.

I'll get on it.

Don't give him ideas.

As soon as I can get turned down by Discovery.

Yeah, don't worry.

It's already happened.

I'll tell you this.

The secret to podcasting success is that your last TV credit is Christmas through the decades on the history channel.

Okay, national television appearance as a wrestler.

I think it can happen.

One, meet Weird Al, it's definitely going to happen.

You and I are going to drive across the country.

We're going to make a documentary film about it.

I'm in.

All right.

What else?

And then, so it's kind of like, it's an important thing in pro wrestling.

It's almost like a rite of passage.

You wrestle all of your friends in a one-on-one match.

It always happens.

Oh, I thought it was all at once.

No, no.

I would put that on national television right now.

It's called a polycule.

A polycule.

And

I've wrestled all of my closest friends, and they really do become your closest friends because you spend hundreds of hours in cars with these people.

Delmy and I have definitely spent hundreds of hours in cars together.

And not killed each other.

Not yet.

You're going to be on my new web series, hundreds of hours of cars.

Hundreds of hours in cars with wrestlers.

Wrestlers in cars getting nowhere.

Yeah, that's true.

No, no, you're getting somewhere.

We're going to go see Weird Al.

Don't worry about it.

It's going to happen.

So I have wrestled all of my closest friends in singles matches, some of them many times.

In fact, Delmi's fiancé, Rip Bison, is one of my closest friends in wrestling.

We've probably had 30-plus singles matches against each other.

We've wrestled in every time zone.

And yet

you've never wrestled Delmy.

No.

And why won't you wrestle your former trainer and your pal?

We mentioned the bucket list, you know.

If I wrestle him, that just brings him closer to retiring.

And I don't want to see him go.

Do you think it's too early for him to retire?

It's way too early.

We could hold out like 10 years easily.

10 more years.

10 more years.

And your feeling is that

if you were to let him check off that part of his bucket list, which is wrestling, the one person that he hasn't wrestled, then that just will usher him into his wrestling grave faster.

Yes.

Right, and you don't want that to happen.

No.

And you also, do you have a concern about any signature move that Perry has?

I'm not scared.

No, no.

Trust me.

I'm not going to tell any professional wrestler that they're scared.

Why are you holding out your pinky at me?

You got a pinky promise that you won't.

Oh, I thought you were going to disembowel me with that.

I promise.

I promise.

I'm not suggesting that, but there is a signature move.

There is a high-risk move that Perry Von Vicious does.

It's called the Perry-Go-Round.

Well, look, you don't have to describe it because I believe that we have video.

Can we see

the peri-go-round, please?

Now, here's a fun fact.

About two years ago, we did a holiday show here at the Shea.

Perry, you were a guest.

And you didn't do the perigo round on me, but you did lift me up over your head.

He was about to.

And what's that?

He was about to.

He was about to do the peri-go-round as well?

Maybe so.

I don't know.

But you did lift me up over your head safely, and it was terrifying.

And that looks worse.

Another fun fact, I also have underwear that says vicious on it.

Not licensed merch.

I'm sorry.

I got it on the black market.

You ought to sell those on your YouTube page or whatever.

I actually have to get mine from Delmi.

She makes those for me.

Oh, cool.

That's very cool.

So,

you know, Perry, would you, if you you were to fight Delmi, would you,

would you Perry go round her?

I don't know how else to put it.

I mean, if I wanted to win, yeah.

Now, look, wrestling of the kind that you do,

you call it wrestling.

Not Olympic style wrestling where they're just on the ground the whole time and it's like,

like, this is...

This is an extremely physical show that you're putting on.

In other words, that other wrestler, who was the other wrestler in that video?

His name is Jake Ripper Reed.

Sure, Jake Ripper Reed.

It was right on the tip of my tongue, of course.

Jake Ripper Reed knows that that's going to happen to him.

You have worked this out.

I mean, I'm sorry to pull back the curtain, but I just want to understand that when you're talking about getting into having a wrestling match with Delmi, It's not like just

in an alley and just wail on each other.

Like, it's going to be a proper wrestling match with, I don't want to say

the nine-year-old's watching.

I'm about to destroy a dream.

With

advanced planning, choreography,

safety measures, and dare I say a little bit of

show personship.

We like to say smoke and mirrors.

I just want to make sure that that's what you're proposing happen in this case, right?

It's not

right.

It's not getting all of your friends together to beat the shit out of you in the alley next to the Shea Theater, because that's how I want to put you on television.

You see it?

I'll take a mortgage out on our apartment because I'll set it up.

But okay, you're talking about a real thing.

Okay.

Does it intimidate you, the Perry-go-round?

Would I agree to take the Perry-go-round?

No.

Okay.

But you're not even going to agree to do anything.

That's not the reason you don't want to fight.

No, that's just one more piece of evidence as to why I would not, I would.

Would you?

Or no

Got it You want to keep your friend Perry von Vicious in the game and my neck sure both of those things But would you say that your primary motivation is to keep Perry wrestling even beyond what he wants to do?

Yeah, he's got to stay.

Why do you want why is it important to you?

So Perry's holding out Perry has this rule that once he's done with wrestling He's like deleting all his social media.

No one's ever going to hear from him.

Only few people have his actual phone number, me being one of them.

But he says.

Perry, do I have your phone number?

Yeah.

Okay, good.

I worked years for that.

Yeah, but yeah, but you weren't on Dick Town.

That reminds me, John.

I wasn't on Dick Town.

We'll do another season.

Okay.

He just doesn't want me to get out of the game.

He knows about my bucket list.

You're going to delete everything?

You're going to erase your wrestling?

He's just going to vanish.

And is he going to vanish from your life?

That's what he claimed.

Are you going to vanish from your friends' lives when you give up wrestling?

So,

everyone I've ever known in wrestling, no matter how close of a friend they've been, when they leave wrestling,

it's kind of the last you hear from them.

Like alcoholism?

It is an addiction of sorts.

Like, my trainer, Johnny Idol, was one of my closest friends in the entire world.

And when he retired, I think since then we text maybe twice a year.

Right.

And so

you're looking forward to this?

No, I've just accepted it.

I mean, let me ask you this question, Perry.

Like, when I was texting with...

El Guerrero Maya.

When John looked up El Guerrero Maya earlier today in the car that we've driven hundreds of miles together in.

That's right.

By the way, I have killed him.

That's his gaga ghost.

But when John was looking up El Guerrero Maya.

I fell victim to the Jesse go-round.

Yeah,

he said to me, is it El Guerrero Maya Jr.

or El Guerrero Maya Sr.?

And I was reminded that when I went to the lucha in Mexico City, there are multi-generational families taking place in those matches, including pater familiases that are like at least 70.

And they just kind of go around and yell different stuff and point different places

and wear a singlet,

which is an intense experience to see up close.

But

why if you give up wrestling, why if you give up the action of wrestling, the danger of wrestling, why can't you be one of those guys that yells and points at stuff?

Yeah.

Didn't you hear that person?

Yeah.

That's a perfect example of yelling.

Yeah.

They probably pointed to, I can't see them.

I've known a couple people who, when they were done, kind of hang around the scene for a long time, but they're not.

They're real cool, right?

It's a little bit like hanging around.

He's going to come back and tell me the Letterman jacket.

No.

Yeah, it's like hanging around your high school after you graduate.

Sure.

It's like,

what's his name?

Matthew

Conahey.

Matthew McConaughey and Daisy and Confused.

Yeah, thank you.

Or it's like when Jesse Thorne graduated from college and kept doing his college radio show for three years

and then left that station and did it for 20 more years.

How long are you going to continue wrestling for, Delmey?

Do you have an idea?

Oh, like I'm just going to be there.

That's it.

No matter what.

No matter what.

What's on your vision board for your wrestling career?

We are Dalyankovic, obviously.

That's going to happen.

Christmas through the decades.

I just want to keep going.

It's just, I have so much fun doing it.

It's something that I've had great success in.

So, you know, like, honestly, if I go further with what I've had, you know, that's great.

But where I'm at right now and like the opportunities that I'm able to give to other people with pro wrestling grind is like, I'm just so content with that.

Right.

And if Perry were to say to you, like, hey, look, I'm not going to disappear from your life if I retire.

I will stay friends with you and Rip Bison.

I won't hang around

the ring in my singlet looking weird, but I will maintain a presence in your world.

Would you then be willing to fight him and defeat him as he deserves?

To send him out of wrestling forever?

I don't believe him.

You don't believe him?

No.

Do you want to get, you want out of this life, Barry?

I mean, look at what it's given you.

You're going to meet weird weird Al Yankovic.

You think I hook that up for non-wrestlers?

Perry, take it from me, an expert.

If you get booked on Christmas through the decades, you're going to meet Mr.

Belding.

I went to UMass.

I met Mr.

Belding.

Oh, wow.

He popped through a lot.

But

you're ready to put this life behind you?

Why?

I mean, honestly, I think Delmey's a little bit overreacting here because I'm not really ready to put it behind me.

Like, I don't have, currently, I don't have a timeframe to be done.

Like, I think I'm still adding a lot.

The rule I've kind of set for myself is, as long as I'm a net positive to the shows that I'm on, I will keep doing it.

Right.

But as soon as I see someone younger and better than me not booked on a show that I'm on,

I need to.

You don't want to be taking up that space for the new young talent that's coming up.

Okay.

So if I were to rule that you were to have a wrestling match with Delmi,

what do you have in mind?

Where is it going to happen?

What's it going to look like?

I mean, to my mind, there's only one place it can happen, and it's got to be pro-wrestling grounds.

The stage at the Shea Theater.

What?

I understand that we're not actually allowed to do that.

No, I did look into it.

There were insurance issues, very literally.

Let me, yeah.

Yes, so short of settling settling it right here, right now, the most wrestling way to settle a thing,

where would it happen?

It would happen in East Hampton at the Pulaski Club for Pro Wrestling Grind.

All right.

And when would it happen?

So Grind likes to run on Fridays or Saturdays.

It kind of depends on availability of the venue.

My birthday is on a Friday this coming year in July,

and I think it would be a cool birthday present to get to wrestle my friend.

Friday, Friday, Friday, July, 2025.

Del Me versus Vicious, the title bout.

It's going to happen or is it?

Now, he called you out.

You can just tell him no.

Or

we could sign on Perry to wrestle for 10 more years.

10 more years?

If you, if Perry signs a binding contract

to wrestle for another 10 years.

Would you wrestle him on his birthday in July?

Yes or no?

Yeah.

Oh.

How do you respond to that, Perry?

I don't know that my body, my marriage, or my hairline could make it another 10 years.

Honestly, wrestlers are doing extraordinary things with hairlines these days.

Well, it sounds like a lot.

It sounds like a very interesting proposal.

I think I've heard enough in order to make my decision.

I am going to go into my chambers, consider my verdict.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Delmey, how do you feel about your chances right now?

I see you crossing your fingers.

Oh, yeah, you know, just doing all the little rituals I used to do as a Pats fan.

Uninflating the ball.

That definitely, by the way, is the worst thing I could have said about Tom Brady.

Perry, how are you feeling about your chances?

I mean,

I have a lot of flexibility in what I'm willing to accept as a verdict.

So I feel pretty good that I'll be comfortable no matter what the judge rules.

How much flexibility do you have in general?

You're pretty yoked, is why I'm mentioning it.

Not as much as I had a few years ago, but more than you'd think.

Okay.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this in just a moment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

I'm very disappointed that I cannot have you wrestle on stage.

It truly is.

I mean,

two

real violations of Chekhov's principle, right?

They're not wrestling on stage, and my pants aren't falling down.

Everyone here is leaving very, very disappointed, I'm afraid.

But the only way to really solve this, honestly, is some form of trial by combat.

So we're going to play a little game.

There are a lot of wrestlers in this world.

Professional,

national professional, worldwide, the various...

There are a lot of wrestlers.

That's what I'm saying.

I don't know what the divisions are.

You two are going to take turns naming famous wrestlers until one of you can't think of one.

How much time do you have?

Let's go.

You have to go fast.

Kejikabashi.

Cole Cabana.

CM Punk.

Keikutaro.

Kelly Kelly.

El Santo.

Trish Stratus.

Blue Demon.

Lita.

John Cena.

Evil East.

Sean Michaels.

Bret Hart.

Triple H.

You took Triple H.

if you repeat if you repeat even by accident you lose I just did you did yeah I did I miss it

oh no

which one did you say Triple H he took triple H and that's my favorite wrestler and he knew that so then I

you said it out of instinct dummy you gotta you gotta play if you want to win

you gotta get in his head

Wrestling isn't just the peri-go-round, it's also mental combat.

Think of a wrestler.

El Guerrero Maya Jr.

and senior.

We don't have them.

El Mysterio.

Okay.

Owen Hart.

Eddie Guerrero.

Bruce Hart.

Macho Man.

Randy Macho Man Savage.

Stu Hart.

Ricky Steamboat.

Rick Flair.

Dusty Rhodes.

Dustin Rhodes.

Wait a minute.

That seems like a technicality.

It's a son.

Okay.

Rick Martel.

Cody Rhodes.

Stop taking my favorite.

Okay.

Gabble's about to come down.

You got a name on

Becky Lynch.

Greg the Hammer Valentine.

Sasha Banks.

I don't want you to think that it was rigged,

but I got the outcome that I wanted.

Oh, actually, you won.

Rants.

But you know what?

I don't care.

You're going to fight.

You're going to fight.

You're going to fight.

You're going to wrestle, I mean to say.

On his birthday, birthday gift,

five-year contract.

Five.

Okay, four.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Perry Delme, thanks for joining us.

Let me tell you, hang on.

Let me tell you why.

Because we all have to fight for four more years.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Perry Delmey, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfund.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

Jesse, the reviews are in.

My new super soft hoodie from Quince that I got at the beginning of the summer is indeed super soft.

People cannot stop touching me and going, that is a soft sweatshirt.

And I agree with them.

And it goes so well with my Quince overshirts that I'm wearing right now, my beautiful cotton PK overshirts and all the other stuff that I've gotten from Quince.

Why drop a fortune on basics when you don't have to?

Quince has the good stuff.

High quality fabrics, classic fits, lightweight layers for warm weather and increasingly chilling leather, all at prices that make sense.

Everything I've ordered from Quince has been nothing but solid and I will go back there again and buy that stuff with my own money.

John, you know what I got from Quince?

I got this beautiful linen double flap pocket shirt that's sort of like an adventure shirt.

And I also got a merino wool polo shirt.

Oh, it's like a it's like a mid-gray, looks good underneath anything, perfect for traveling.

Cause with merino wool, it like it basically rejects your stink.

You know what I mean?

It's a stink-rejecting technology, John.

It says, get thee behind me, stink.

Yeah, exactly.

And, you know, honestly, even if I do need to wash it, I can just wear it in the shower when I'm traveling and then

roll it in a towel and it's pretty much ready to go.

Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.

Quince has wonderful clothes for women, men, kids, babies.

They have travel stuff.

They have gifts.

They have quilts and bedspreads.

They've got everything.

Go over there and find out for yourself.

Keep it classic and cool with long-lasting staples from Quince.

Go to quince.com/slash JJHO for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

That's q-u-i-n-ce-e dot com slash jjho to get free shipping and 365-day returns.

Quince.com slash jjo.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast, also brought to you this week by Made Inn.

So, you know that Made In makes the pots and pans and griddles and woks and more that pro-chefs like Tom Calicio use every day at their homes and in their restaurant.

But they are also used by non-pro-chefs like me.

You know, I spent the summer smashing those burgers on my big carbon steel griddle I've been talking about all the time.

But fall is on the horizon and it's time to stop smashing and start braising and stewing and roasting vegetables in your carbon steel pan or slow-cooking chili in your Maiden stainless steel stock pot.

Or maybe you've got a kid who's going to college.

Maybe they're going to UNC Chapel Hill shop Maiden's collegiate collection and you can send your kid a UNC Dutch oven so they can host one of those classic tar heel dorm room pot roast parties.

I'm sure they exist.

Whatever you want to make in your kitchen, though, you can make it, you can serve it, you can savor it in Made Inn.

From cookware to tableware to glassware to pro-grade knives, Made Inn is dedicated to making exactly what demanding chefs are looking for.

The carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron and stainless clad.

We've talked about it before.

It gets super hot.

It's also rugged enough for grills or open flames, and you can season it to a non-stick surface.

Really special stuff.

And all of the made-in products are sold online, so you get professional-grade cookware for a lot less money than other high-end brands.

If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common.

They're made-in,

made-in.

For full details, visit madeincookware.com.

That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com and tell them that Judge John Hodgman sent you.

It's time for swift justice.

Please welcome to the stage Andy and Mark.

Andy wants to get a private pilot's license, but his friend friend Mark says that flying is too dangerous.

He loves Andy very much and doesn't want him to die in a crash.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Andy Mark, welcome to the Court of Judge John Hodgman.

Before we get started, we do have, as I mentioned, a very special guest here.

There is someone that you know very dear to my heart and the entire communities.

He's sometimes known as our summertime, fun-time guest bailiff, but right now he's our winter of discontent guest bailiff.

Please welcome to the stage Monty Belmonte.

Monty, thank you.

Will you sit in on Swift Justice and lend some expertise?

I would love to.

I appreciate that.

Thank you for being here, and we'll chat with you in a little bit.

But let's go ahead, Justice.

We'll not wait.

Andy and Mark.

Who's Andy?

I'm Andy.

Andy.

And before we hear the case, may I

license your life rights immediately?

For those of you who are listening at home, Andy is wearing an incredible members-only jacket, it looks like to me.

Thank you for the recognition in whalers green.

He is wearing a Hartford Whalers hat.

Yes.

He has a handlebar mustache.

He's a very fit gentleman.

And I would like to option your life right.

Oh, and he's disrobing to represent

Yale University,

the heart of the secret world government and my alma mater

and you're Mark I am Mark okay never mind I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision well no I'll hold I'll hold the gavel but I do want to assign your life rights so that I can write a new TV show about a guy named Dan Crowbar hockey detective

looks like a my looks looks like

Tom Selick run through a Zamboni.

It's incredible over here.

Mark, you look pretty good, too.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Mark,

who seeks justice in this court?

I seek justice, Your Honor.

Andy, what is the nature of the justice you see?

I would like to get my pilot's license.

I'm frankly surprised you don't already have it.

Well,

frankly, I'm surprised that you want a pilot's license and not an autogyro license

or a whirlybird license.

There's only one person standing in the way of me having the license so far, and it is my friend Mark.

You guys are friends, Mark.

We are friends.

So Andy has a lot of hobbies, Mark.

My concern, and the reason that I've stood in his way

is that he's a bit of a serial hobbyist.

And so my concern is that while he thinks he wants to learn how to fly the plane, it's more that he wants to be the kind of person who also flies planes.

What about the incredible affected presentation that Andy presents?

Suggests to you.

You know, you see his handlebar mustache.

What you don't see is that in the past 10 years, he's also taken up birding, curling.

Yes.

He's the vice president of the Nutmeg Curling Society.

He became a mason.

He's also in the Rushmore Kite Flying Society.

He also became a mason.

A Freemason or with bricks?

Appropriate question.

Yeah, not allowed to say.

Hence the Yale shirt.

Yeah, and you know, this is on top of his interest in mustache culture.

I mean, his hobbies know no end.

There's a lot of what they call Venn between your interests and mine, Andy.

A lot of overlap, and I'm inclined to wonder

if you are perhaps not a real person, but instead a five-hour energy drink hallucination that I'm having right now.

Is this real life?

Monty Belmonte, is this real life?

Let me pinch you.

Oh, okay.

Okay, thanks.

Will you pull up my pants in the meantime while I'm...

No, no, no, please don't.

Are you suggesting this is a Hodgman after dentist situation?

I suspect it might be

Andy, why do you want to fly an aeroplane

Your Honor and not become a Zeppelinier

Your Honor Bailiff Jesse

guest

bailiff Monte Belmonte.

Are you going to marry somebody?

I just might.

Handsome people of

Shea Theater.

I'm just a simple caveman.

I'm just a simple townie from New Haven.

I'm not a sophisticated Yale man like my opponent here who has two degrees from Yale.

I just want to be free and I believe in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I don't think that Mark should be able to stand in my way of happiness.

Don't interrupt me, sir.

And

what we're about to see is the silver tongue of a professional debater.

John, if you want, I can come back in an hour.

Yeah, I was going to say,

there's still pizza downstairs, right?

Yes, okay, let's all go down.

No, go on, Andy.

The impossible full head of hair, age-defying on my friend here, Mark.

And all I'm asking for is the freedom to pursue a hobby that we all want to be able to fly like a bird the birds that I that I've look that I seek out there in the field I just want to I just want to follow the cost that you watch it's just that the cost can I interrupt

I'll allow it thank you it's just

it's just that the cost of him failing at curling

There's no cost to him failing at curling, sure.

But the cost to being bad at flying is really, you know, is death.

I'm so happy.

And I just think that it's a hobby too far.

How old are you, Andy, if I may ask?

I'm 50.

Well, you've had a great life.

Your Honor.

Yes.

I'm so glad that Mark brought up the risks of flying because I've done a little math, as you may have expected.

I'm a prepared person.

Thank you.

I do appreciate that.

May I refer to my notes?

Please reach into your members-only front pocket.

yeah do you know the likelihood of me dying in a plane crash in the first year if i were to take one year of lessons one hour

is the answer inside that envelope did you yeah did you have price waterhouse coopers keep the answer secret for you

okay

is the answer the likelihood of me living through the year is 99.99%

this is literally back of the envelope math.

I mean, yes.

That was deduced through

binomial distribution.

I'm sure there's someone in this audience who understands what that is.

And

binomial nerds.

Thank you.

So if I were to say to anyone in this audience,

are you prepared to accept the risk of living, you know, of surviving a 99.99%

likelihood?

Would you accept that risk for the next year?

I think you'd be a fool to not take that.

May I see the envelope?

Of course.

Well, he's done the work.

This is a picture of a bird with a mustache.

There's an affidavit inside?

There is.

As I open the affidavit, let me give Mark a moment to speak, if you don't mind, Andy.

Please.

What standing do you have to deny Andy his right to pursue his desire to fly?

Look, I'm the friend who has stuck around through all this.

How long have you been friends?

We've been friends 20 years,

17, 18 years now.

And, you know, being the friend of someone who's,

you know, he recently bought, this is true, he recently roped about his last six friends and our spouses into an all-day curling session at his club because he wants wants to recruit us to the curling community.

Like, there's a heavy lift to be friends with Andy, which is you indulge the hobbies and he's a great guy, but I just don't want to be going up in the little putt-putt plane with him.

Well, you don't have to.

I don't.

I don't.

You're not forcing him into the plane, are you?

I don't even want him to.

No, exactly.

It's just that it always tends that way.

Mark, I appreciate your concern for your friend.

I think it's clear that you care about Andy very much.

I do.

And you want him to live, mostly because he's exciting to have in your life.

Everyone should have a guy like this in your life.

I understand.

I know.

I've definitely had exciting friends in my life who I wished them to live.

Right.

Even though

their recreational risk-taking makes my life more exciting, as it obviously makes your life more exciting.

Exactly.

The fact is, Andy is his own person.

I have a very dear friend.

We're working on a project that involves hang gliding.

And he decided to go hang gliding.

Had never hang glided before.

That's the past tense of hang gliding.

He never hang glided.

Hang glided.

He had never hung glided.

Hunglided.

But let me,

it was none of my business.

And that gentleman, David Reese, he surely did hung glad.

He had a great time.

Far more dangerous than flying a plane.

Monty, do you have anything you want to add to this, Jesse?

Are you, Andy, by any chance, a singer-songwriter?

I'm not.

Because I think the odds on your envelope would be much different if you were.

I mean, I think of John Denver and Jim Croce,

Buddy Holly, and Richie Valence, and Patsy Klein, Otis Reding.

Oh, boy, oh, boy.

Talk about crashing and burning.

Really bring us down to earth, monkey.

I love what you did there, John Otto.

Tell you what.

I order Andy to soar.

Of course, you must.

Of course, you must learn to fly.

Thank you, Andy and Mark.

Sorry, Mark.

Congratulations, Andy.

I'm Emily Fleming.

I'm Jordan Morris.

And I'm Matt Lee.

We are real comedy writers.

Real friends.

And real cheapskates.

On every episode of our podcast, Free with Ads, we ask, Why pay for expensive streaming services when you can get free movies from apps with weird names?

Each week, we review the freest movies the internet has to offer.

Classics like Pride and Prejudice.

Cult classics like Point Break.

And holy sh, what did I just watch?

Classics like Teen Witch.

Tune in every week as we take a deep dive into the internet's bargain bin.

Every Tuesday on maximumfun.org or your favorite pod plays.

The Flophouse is a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

Robert Shaw in Jaws and they're trying to figure out how how to get rid of the ghoulies, and he scratches his fails and goes, I'll get you ghoulie.

He's just standing above the toilet with a harpoon.

No, I'm just looking forward to you going through the other ways in which Wild Wild West is historically inaccurate.

Do you know how much movies cost nowadays when you add in your popped corn and your bagel bites and your cheese or critters?

You can't go wrong with a Henry Camill Mustache.

Here at Henry Camill Mustache is the only supplier.

The Flop House.

New episodes every Saturday.

Find it at maximumfun.org.

Judge Sean Hodgman, we are taking a quick break from the stage

at the Shea Theater, and you ordered on stage at the Shea Theater that a wrestling match occur.

That wrestling match is

approaching fast.

That's right.

You heard my verdict.

I ruled in Perry's favor.

Del Miexo must wrestle against Perry von Vicious in a singles match to finally put this grudge aside.

And guess what?

Clacks on, clacks on, clacks on.

That match is coming July 19th, 19th at the Pulaski Club in East Hampton, Massachusetts.

It's the Pro Wrestling Grind Championship main event, event, event.

Current champion, the human monster truck, Perry Von Vicious, versus the God Queen Queen Del Mi Exo.

Perry won the case in my court, but will he win this wrestling match?

Find out only one way.

Get your tickets at grindpuro.eventbright.com.

That's G-R-I-N-D-P-U-R-O G-R-I-N-D-P-U-R-O.eventbright.com.

I'll repeat that URL at the end of this episode.

Do not miss this incredible matchup.

Also, do not miss the second season of ePluribus Motto dropping July 8th.

ePluribus Motto is my and Janet Varney's super fun podcast about state mottos and not just state mottos, but also state slogans, state mammals, state monsters, state beverages, state snacks.

It's a whole bunch of wild and weird trivia.

And Janet and I having a good time with you.

I hope the listener makes sure to go check us out wherever you get your podcast.

It's called epluribus moto

at maximumfund.org.

Wherever you get your podcast, it all drops July 8th.

Jesse Thorne, what's going on with you?

Well, I happened to be out at the flea market this past weekend.

And I didn't see a couple pals of mine.

Their names are Jesus and Maria,

longtime flea market market friends.

I got all these flea market friends.

You know, you go to the flea market every week, you have flea market friends.

FMFs.

So my pals, Jesus and Maria, weren't out there selling.

And I had, I don't, I mean, I don't know that I'd ever seen them miss one.

And I was talking to their flea market neighbors, my friends Matthew and his mother, Maria,

and they mentioned to me that Jesus and Maria weren't there

because

the previous week, a SWAT meet in Los Angeles had gotten raided by ICE.

Now, my pals were not detained in that raid,

but they also didn't feel like they could go to work safely.

And that kind of thing is going on across Southern California.

And indeed, at this point across the country.

You know, ICE is trying to arrest 3,000 people a day.

And the only way they can do that, especially now that they have, that the president arbitrarily exempted the workplaces of

people who work for not enough money for his squadillionaire friends

in a few industries, is

to hit people in the places in my community and our communities that should be sacrosanct, not just people's workplaces, but schools and churches and hospitals,

courthouses, things like that.

So

I

was feeling down about it, and then I remembered how awesome Judge Sean Hodgman listeners are.

And

our fundraiser for Alotrolado remains open.

It is at alotrolado.org/slash let's do something.

We have raised, at this point, a total of over $275,000.

That's

over $200,000 in small and mid-sized contributions.

My wife and I gave $25,000,

and we had two matching grants of

25.

So we have raised almost $300,000, and I would love to get it up to $300,000.

So go to alotrolado.org/slash let's do something.

Alotrolado do, among other things,

legal trainings for people who are in detention and people at the border.

Like one of the things that they have tried to do in the current administration is

what

little legal training

people who were seeking refugee status, what little education about the laws, both international and American immigration laws, that people were getting, the funding has been zeroed out for

in the government.

So people generally do not get an attorney.

Some people are able to get an attorney for themselves, but often even if they have an attorney,

the system attempts to separate them from their attorney and not even tell their attorney where they are.

much less their families.

So

Alos Otrolado provides that training.

Now they need our support to be able to give that training because it is no longer, as it was in a previous administration, funded by the government.

And it just informs people who are seeking refugee status of their basic rights.

And, you know, I won't speculate as to why the government wouldn't want people to be informed of their basic rights, but it's not because they're respecting them.

So

alotrolado.org slash let's do something is where you can go and

give some money.

Yeah.

And that money will have a direct impact on people who

are in a really brutal spot right now.

It's an easy time to feel very, very helpless and scared.

And one way that you can actually provide direct help and maybe even feel a little less scared and paralyzed is to support Al Otrolado.

You've been incredibly generous in the past.

And if you're able to be generous again, please join us in supporting this really, really important mission.

What's that website again, Jesse?

That's allotrolato.org/slash let's do something.

Now let's get back to the Shea Theater.

Monty Velmonte is here.

In case you didn't notice,

so nice to see you, Monty.

I've missed you.

It's so nice to see you.

And Monty, one of the things you're well known for when you join us on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast

are your introductions full of ruinously corny puns yes uh jesse thorne are you a fan of punnery yeah i love it yeah i love it especially

i think i've created so many puns over the years that jesse thorne doesn't like me in real life no

well as we're coming up on

he's a very he's doing a lot for charity

does a lot of work in the community i am the president of the board of this theater.

That's true.

That's true.

And I get paid $0 for it.

You truly are the center of town, and we're very happy to be here.

And

since you are here and Swift Justice continues, perhaps you might take a turn introducing the next set of litigants in your own inimitable Belmonte Manor.

Don't mind if I do, Judge John Hodgman.

Let's welcome to the stage Brianna Kress.

Brianne and her husband Chris use cloth napkins at home.

At the end of dinner, Chris uses his napkin to blow his nose.

The mob justices later.

Brianne says, this is disgusting.

Chris says,

Chris says, it's snot.

He does not think it's a tissue.

He says it's a nasal degestif and that Brianne moist a toilet.

I don't even know what that is.

I don't even get that one.

Must allow it.

Moist a toilet.

Moist a toilet.

Got it, got it, got it.

Who's right?

Who's gazuntite?

Only one

knows.

Only one can serve yet justice.

Only one can ah, ah, ah, juice!

Please rise, and while you're at it, put a little boogie in it as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Wow.

Brianne and Chris, welcome to the court.

Who seeks justice in this courtroom?

I do, Your Honor.

Brianne, it's your husband.

Husband, is that correct?

That's correct.

Chris, who blows his nose in the cloth napkins?

He does.

Can I add, he often does this while making direct eye contact with me as well.

That's pretty hot, actually.

Works every time.

Yeah, very provocative.

How often does this happen that Chris is gunking up your napkins with his snot?

Yeah, so it happens pretty much any time we eat dinner at the dinner table, which doesn't happen that often.

Yeah, it's not often that we're together.

It's a more, so when you are like sitting and watching television or what have you, he's blowing his nose into the throw pillows.

We don't bring out the cloth napkins for the couch dinner.

It's more of a kind of, we're eating dinner together at the dining room table.

It's a nice thing.

And then it ends with just letting it rip.

And when you are having these formal, comparatively formal dinners,

are there other people invited, like your boss, your in-laws, whatever it is?

Or is it just the two of you?

It's generally just the two of us.

I have asked him if he would do this

were anyone else there, and I've never seen him do it, but he insists he would.

He thinks there's nothing wrong with it.

But mostly you save this behavior just for your beloved wife.

Is that right, Chris?

That's correct, Your Honor.

And why do you do this?

You say you call it a cleansing blow.

Yes.

So I'm sure like many in the audience here, I work a stressful job and I come home weary and

what is your job?

Pleumatic.

I'm an ICU doctor okay

I thought you were gonna say autogyropilot

but that's pretty that's pretty stressful okay and that causes some phlegm to back up yeah and that at the not as stressful to be fair as public radio hosts totally

budget cuts fun drives

so you know sometimes I work late and we we don't always get to eat together but you know at the end of a long day

dinner I don't know it seems to provoke a certain amount of nasal congestion.

And it's just such a relief at the end of a satisfying meal.

I would add, I think there's a mismatch in disgust tolerance given Chris's job.

I think he has a problem.

And given Chris's shirt.

I'm sorry, Chris.

I like his shirt.

That one's just for us.

I'm not going to explain that to the listening audience.

It's certainly very jaunty and wacky.

Northampton Goodwill.

What a nice pull.

I like it.

So please say again, your disgust tolerance is different.

Yes, my disgust tolerance is significantly lower than his, and I think that's coming into play.

So you're saying that you occasionally get disgusted by things that are disgusting.

That's correct.

And I would...

The flip side is that I think he does not get disgusted by things that are disgusting.

Well, he's an ICU doc.

I mean, I think there's probably some distress tolerance built into your job at this point.

Yeah, there's snot all over the place.

Even more.

I think at this point you should possibly be happy that he doesn't disembowel himself after dinner.

Is this something you've done your whole life?

Chris, did you grow up doing this?

Probably, but honestly, I think maybe my family is weird enough that maybe we all do it if we sat down at a dinner table, but I've never paid attention.

But maybe Brianne, coming from a more normal family,

calls out this this behavior.

I think it started happening when we got the cloth napkins.

They're so soft on the face.

It's the only comfort he gets.

Do you have anything else to blow your nose on in your home?

Well, there's a tablecloth, surely.

There's that shirt.

Yeah.

Oh, and there's and there's Brianne's shirt, too, probably.

You could go around the table.

It's happened before.

Oh, the dog.

Have you ever owned a handkerchief?

I never have owned a handkerchief.

Really?

You know the holidays are coming up, Brianne.

That's true.

An idea for a stocking stuffer.

Well,

is there any defense that you want to offer?

Because

what happens.

Aside from I have done this already?

The process is, I mean,

it is, you know, people, I would say, people do kind of some other gross stuff into table napkins.

If you get a particularly grizzly piece of meat or a fish bone, you're going to spit it into your napkin, right?

Again, the audience participation is later in the show.

But I appreciate

essentially the

catching the tenor of this crowd with regard to us.

And I'm going to say something, Chris.

With regard to a piece of gristly meat or a fishbone or whatever, you're absolutely right.

Sorry.

You absolutely would dispose that politely in your napkin and try to...

Because what you're trying to do is spare

your fellow guests and maybe the person who made the food the discomfort and the embarrassment of you spitting it out onto the table or whatever.

But that's different than blowing your nose.

Yeah.

Additionally,

the napkin, this is at the end of the meal, so I'm not using anymore.

And I put it directly into the washing machine, ready for the next wash.

And yet, I don't think this is the first time that your wife, Brianne, has said to you, that's gross, I wish you would not do it.

I mean, even if there were

a custom of doing this that you grew up with or whatever, even if you could mount a defense.

Yeah, in your childhood in the world's most disgusting family circus cartoon.

The fact that Brianne says, please don't do that, who does the cooking by the way I do all right and are you sprinkling allergens over or just like a little dusting of pollen just to

not that I'm aware of no yeah because it's making it's making the Symeses clog up I did have two slices of pizza from Jennifer Marmor's mom before the show that's true Jennifer's mom's Jennifer Marmor's mom sent a bunch of pizza that's out there in the lobby and it's not sprinkled with allergens or poison and I did have a hold on it was Jennifer Marmor's dad Bob oh I apologize

It was both of them, she says.

It's Jennifer Marmor's birthday.

We'll talk more about that later.

And this was just to say I did have a delightful nose blow in the bathroom after that.

Where you can.

Do you have a bathroom at your home?

Here's what I'm going to say.

Perhaps I.

How long have you been married?

Six years.

Six years.

So it's very early in this marriage.

Well, we've been together since high school.

Okay, but you know, you're still quite young compared to me and Andy the pilot.

And as you are married, you will become more and more accustomed to each other's weird bodily functions.

And the polite hiding of the farts and burps and secretions will start to erode over time.

You become so comfortable with each other that the barriers and the common sense tends to break down.

I'm sure you've experienced this with your own parents if you have a relationship with them and the weird things they do in front of each other that's absolutely disgusting and should not be allowed in public.

And I think that it's important to acknowledge what you're doing and put a stop to it as soon as possible.

And I say this as someone who has blown his nose in a cloth napkin before.

And I thought that this might have been acceptable.

And when I heard this case originally, I took it to my own family and I said, what do you think of this?

It's kind of like, kind of could go either way, right?

And they were like, no, this must stop right away.

And I was realized, I am

outside the bounds of acceptable behavior, especially since there are other things to blow your nose in, like handkerchiefs in the bathroom.

And I think out of respect for your wife and the meal that she has made and your marriage and the trying to keep the magic alive rather than drowning it in phlegm,

change your ways.

This is the sound of a gap.

Thank you, Brianne and Chris.

And of course,

thank you, Monty Belmonte.

Thank you, Monty Belmonte.

My pleasure.

Thank you, Bailiff Jesse.

Thank you, Judge John Hodgman.

So great to see you.

That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you to Reddit user Dr.

Colossus of Rhodes.

Absolute.

I mean, look up Legend in the dictionary.

You're going to see a picture of Dr.

Colossus of Rhodes naming Judge John Hodgman episodes for naming the case in this episode.

And guess what?

You've listened to the whole show, and now you know, if you're in Western Massachusetts, you will actually get to see Perry Von Vicious and Delmy XO Take It of the Ring.

Get your tickets for the court-ordered match between Perry and Delmy at Pro Wrestling Grind.

It's happening on Saturday, July 19th at the Pulaski Club in East Hampton, Massachusetts.

Get your tickets at grindpuro.eventbright.com.

That's grindp-u-r-o.eventbright.com.

Make sure and follow us on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

We're on YouTube and TikTok at judgejohnhodgman pod.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne.

This episode was recorded by Matthew Barnhart.

Dan Telfer is our social media manager.

A.J.

McKeon is our podcast editor.

Daniel Speer is our video editor.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artists-owned shows.

Supported directly by you.