Car-edible Witness

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Car Edible Witness.

Nicole brings the case against her partner, Scott.

Nicole says Scott razzes her too much because of a road trip snacking system.

Scott says her messy snacks deserve to be razzed.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

There are very few things I don't eat with ranch.

I just like it, and it helps make some things easier to eat, so I always have it with my meals.

When we got our food, I asked for some ranch.

The waiter said they didn't have any, and offered to bring out some kind of sour cream and dill sauce.

I tried it, and they just weren't the same.

I told Michael I'd be right back, took my wallet, and left the restaurant.

I had seen a convenience store close by when arriving, so I went, bought a bottle of ranch, and came back.

Michael looked looked shocked, but didn't say anything, and ate his food.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Nicole and Scott, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever?

We do.

Yeah, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's watching his carbohydrates intake?

And so when you're on tour with him and you buy some snacks at a gas station or whatever, and you're thinking is that he's going to eat half of them.

He doesn't eat any of them, and then you eat all of them.

Indeed.

Yeah.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Although it is possible, Jesse, for me to get a little cup of ranch dressing

and just sip it.

Yeah.

Just sip a little cup of ranch.

Glug, glug.

That's good for me.

That's good for my triglycerides.

Just a little cup.

Down it goes.

A little demitos of ranch.

Okay, Nicole and Scott, you may be seated.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favorites, can either of you name the piece of culture that that I referenced as I entered this courtroom?

Let's say Nicole, what's your guess?

Well, I was going to guess a mountain goat song, but that doesn't

always a good guess.

Yeah,

always rhyme, but

yeah, so I guess that's my guess, even though I know it's definitely not that.

There need to be more condiment-based mountain goat songs, though, I think.

Yeah,

I think we'll save that for the John Darnell Weird Al Collab album.

I listened to it.

It's called We Know Our Market.

The best ever death metal ghost reaper sauce out of Texas.

That's what it was.

What song are you going to guess, though, if you were going to guess a Mountain Goats song, just so you can give me a little something from the new album?

Yeah, the new album.

Yeah, as he's getting into like saxophone experimentation, why not ranch also?

Yeah, some people get into flutes.

John gets into sex.

Jenny from Thebes is the name of the new Mountain Goats album.

All right, now, Scott, what's your guess?

You know,

I came in with a prepared guess, and I don't think it works either.

So I'll just go with that.

I was going to do season seven, episode five of The Simpsons when they do you don't win friends with salad.

So

you don't win friends with salad, season five, episode seven.

What happens in that one?

That's when Lisa becomes a vegetarian.

Oh, gotcha.

Great episode.

And that pertains to this case because why, Scott?

Well, when we go on road trips, Nicole tends to enjoy road trip snacks, including things that maybe most people wouldn't consider salad, road trip salad.

All right, we'll put a pin in that and come back to it because all guesses were wrong.

I was referencing a Reddit post from the very popular Am I the

whole Reddit

that I may have referenced in our episode recently with Nick and Amelia from the Doughboys podcast, Condiment Crimes, which had a lot to do with ranch, which I believe that you enjoy.

Is that correct, Nicole?

I do.

Yeah, it almost feels like it's mandatory here in the Midwest to enjoy.

Yes.

And for the person who posted this post on Reddit, it was absolutely Reddit.

Am I the Earnth Hole

entry was called, Am I the Earnth Hole?

Because I brought a bottle of ranch into a restaurant.

This young woman is invited on a date by Michael, who takes her to a hole in the wall, quote, hole in the wall, Polish-Hungarian place where they don't have ranch dressing.

So she goes across the street to the convenience store to get herself a little demitas of ranch.

And at the end of the date, she's completely befuddled when the guy goes, yeah, I don't ever want to see you again.

Quote, her, I told him I wouldn't have had to do it if they had ranch or any dressings like a normal restaurant.

This one was a banger from about eight months ago.

I promised I wouldn't get back to Am I I the whole, but I, but I did it for you.

Would she have settled for a different dressing?

Is that the implication?

Like a vinaigrette or a honey mustard or something?

I have to go back and maybe you missed this in the in the original quote.

Quote, there are very few things I don't eat with ranch.

I just like it.

And here's the part that makes me want to vomit.

And it helps make some things easier to eat.

So I don't think she would have gone for a honey mustard because this is really an issue of lubrication.

Buttermilk lubrication.

The original post was deleted, but you can find it if you want to read it.

It's a wild ride.

But Nicole, you seek justice in this case, correct?

I do, yeah.

And it's because you like to snack in a car, sometimes with a ranch.

What's your car snacking system?

So we tend to go on quite a few road trips, like to see friends and family and for work.

And so I like to bring things along.

To eat.

Yeah, to eat on the way

so that we're not hungry.

So this was not invited.

This was not invented in North Dakota.

No, rotor snacks are not original.

No.

But

I don't agree with the lubrication idea, but I do like

foods that are adequately moistened in different ways.

Like I don't like dry food.

I know, sorry.

It's the accurate way to describe it, but I don't like dry food very much.

So things that I can dip or things that I can dress.

A common thing for me to pack would be a Tupperware, a salad, a little cup of dressing, eating it with a fork, not with my hands.

Right.

When Scott is driving and you're the passenger, you might sit there.

No, usually I'm the driver.

Wow.

See, I knew what she was going to say, Jesse, but maybe you didn't.

You're forking and driving?

Yeah, I mean, we have like long, open, straight roads, so forking and driving is not as dangerous as it would be.

I wouldn't do it in the city normally.

DWF driving while forking.

I knew what this was about because I remember when I got your email originally, Nicole, I was like, this cannot be.

And I'm like, are you talking about eating a salad while driving?

And your explanation was, well, I live in North Dakota.

And then I was like, wait a minute, okay.

This is a case that might be worth hearing because I have never been to North Dakota, but I can imagine, and you explained,

that it's long straightaways with five miles of visibility.

No humans live there, and there's a lot of cruise control going on.

I'm not saying that I'm finding in your favor.

I'm just

doing a little of your argument for you.

Scott,

however, you're not from North Dakota.

No, no, I grew up in California in the Bay Area.

Right.

So you obviously take issue with your spouse.

Yeah, I mean, the ironic part of this is we were on a road trip when we heard the Linda Holmes coin little weirdsies.

So I'm not mad about Nicole eating a salad.

I just think it's weird, and I think I should be allowed to say so.

I appreciate your going to Linda Holmes as cover

for your preference, but I don't think that it's a little weirdsy to prefer that you be alive.

What is the most outrageous thing you've ever seen Nicole eat while she was driving?

I mean, the salad is up there.

One time we had fries and Nicole, I was passenging and Nicole wanted me to apply ketchup to each fry individually before she would eat it because she didn't want a dry fry.

I mean, there are a couple of terms that have to be sent immediately over to Emily Brewster and Merriam-Webster.

Dry fry and passenger.

I've never heard passaging before and I love it.

Maybe that's everyone, some of the everyone talks about in North Dakota or San Jose where you're from, but that's a new regionalism to me, Scott.

I like it.

I think they invented that at the Tech Museum of Innovation in San Jose.

Yeah, probably so.

What about dips?

Do you ever dip anything besides making you dip stuff in ketchup?

Yeah, if it's anything that is dippable, she'll have the container of a dip if you go to fast food or something.

I would say ketchup is out of the ordinary.

I'm not normally a ketchup fan.

Normally, I do want a ranch or a honey mustard or

like if the option was to have dry chicken nuggets or chicken nuggets with a dip, I would only eat them if there was a dip.

I wouldn't eat a dry nugget.

Nicole, let me ask you this question.

Is ranch the main one?

So

for me, it used to be, but after we had our daughter, I can't eat dairy.

So now I've had to expand my.

I'll ask you a different question.

Okay.

Is vegan ranch the main one?

Vegan ranches, unfortunately, are all bad.

They're not.

You need.

That's not true.

How dare you?

You need the buttermilk.

For me, to my taste, the buttermilk is intrinsic.

But outside of your food sensitivities, which I'm sorry that you're making, you have to make that adjustment, you would agree that ranch is the main one.

Yeah, especially, I do think it's regional.

I think

I love that you just know what I'm talking about.

People had a hard time understanding the concept of the main one when we talked about this on condomin crimes.

Ranch is the main one.

Jesse, put it down in the, in the, in the log.

Ranch is the main one.

So logged.

So logged.

Thank you.

I have a question on these road trips.

Do you ever leave North Dakota?

Oh, yeah.

In the car?

So Scott prefers to fly if we're leaving the state.

Right.

But then usually we'll rent a car and drive.

Has anyone in North Dakota ever driven across the border of North Dakota into another state?

Oh, yeah.

I object.

I don't believe you.

No, it's it.

That's mostly how people interact is driving through from Montana to Minnesota or vice versa.

Every Jesse Thorne, let me tell you something.

You and I went to Maine together.

Remember how we went on vacation together for a weekend?

It was wonderful.

Sometimes I don't go to Maine with you.

Sometimes I go to Maine with my wife, who's a whole human being in her own right.

I'll never stop saying it, whatever you say on Reddit.

Sometimes I go to Maine with my wife.

And when we do, every year, she plays the license plate game

where she tries to spot every license plate in the United States

driving around or going through parking lots.

And like, we'll go to

Acadia National Park, one of the most popular national parks, and we won't go see the Cadillac Mountain or anything.

We'll just cruise the parking lot looking for plates.

Every year, Nicole, Alaska, no problem.

Hawaii, Hawaii, an island, no problem.

South Dakota, forget about it.

By the end of June, we've seen South Dakota twice.

North Dakota, not once.

Not one time.

What are you doing in North Dakota?

Why aren't you coming to Maine?

Maybe we have enough natural beauty here.

Acadia National Park, I hear, is gorgeous, but we have the least visited national park in the country, and it's gorgeous, Teddy Roosevelt National Park.

Quite a brag.

What about jalapeno poppers?

Absolutely.

I haven't had them much because, again, no dairy.

But while I was eating dairy, jalapeno poppers were up there and they must be dipped in ranch.

Scott, is this a problem that has solved itself since you've had a baby?

No, I mean, we haven't been doing as many road trips, but we still do them.

And it's, you know, still is an issue that we'll be going somewhere and then, you know, Nicole will want to eat a salad while driving or eat something that makes a huge mess.

And it just, I don't know, it seems to me like there are certain foods that are better designed for road trip snacking and they're ones that aren't going to drip all over you, aren't going to make a mess, easy to eat i don't know it just seems like there's got to be some better solutions here you think there could be better arrangements what what is the arrangement now nicole can you describe how you eat dippables while you're driving yeah the most common way is for

uh whatever the dipping sauce is to either sit in between me and scott so that we can share it or even more common he'll hold it and i can dip food in it or pretty often he'll dip something in it and hand it to me to eat.

And a lot of times, not always, but a lot of times it's a food that he has packed for us.

So he is

assisting in the dipping, but then giving me a hard time about it.

Does he ever help you with dabbing?

Not yet, but I bet if I asked, he would.

He's very accommodating.

Scott, do you think that if Nicole asked you on your drive home to hold a napkin and dab the corners of her mouth, you would be willing to do it?

I mean, we drove here separately, so, but in the hypothetical that we were heading home together,

I mean, it'd be kind of rude not to, I suppose.

Yeah, I mean, it's right there in Emily Post.

Nicole, you're saying that Scott often packs and plans the dippables?

Yeah, he's the main

person in charge of food in our household.

And so right.

And so he's kind of a hypocrite objecting to your behavior in this way because he's enabling it.

It's almost like he likes setting me up to make fun of me.

Have you ever heard of vanilla sauce?

No.

V-A-N-I-L-J-S-A-S with a with a circle over the A?

No, it's new to me.

It's vanilla sauce.

It's one of the most common sauces in Sweden.

Oh.

Nicole, do you know what the capital of Sweden is?

Stockholm is the answer.

Stockholm.

Have you heard of the Stockholm syndrome?

That I've I've heard of, yeah.

Yeah, that's when the captive becomes enamored of the captor

and puts a little vanilla sauce on their food for them, even though it's dangerous and they don't want to be doing it.

And afterwards, dabs the corner of their mouth.

Exactly.

Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor.

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I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

One of you sent in some evidence, correct?

Yeah, I sent in some evidence.

Let's take a a look at this photo.

I'm looking at a photo that Scott has submitted.

Okay,

this is a photo.

I presume these are your beloved hands driving, right, Nicole?

They are.

Driving a Subaru.

Is the Subaru in motion?

Hard to tell because it's a photo.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're really digging yourself a hole with your soup spoon here because you're driving.

and you're and you've got one beloved hand wrapped around what looks like maybe a yeti coffee mug or something yeah and the other an open mug

of Campbell's soup with a spoon sticking out of it

which you're pressing into the steering wheel to drive is this true or not that's all true well it's not Campbell's soup that was oatmeal in there it's a Campbell's soup mug

right but it was porridge yeah in the mug

honestly yeah okay I mean because the actually that makes a small difference uh in your favor Nicole because I was thinking that there might be some piping hot tomato soup

but with oatmeal the slosh factor is a little lower i suppose so i would if it had been tomato soup in there there wouldn't be a spoon in there because i will sip on a soup on the road yeah right but but for something thick like a porridge it yeah needs a a spoon Your defense is, yeah, no, it wouldn't be soup.

I need a spoon to eat my porridge while I'm driving.

Yeah, yeah.

This, not only does this seem unsafe, it seems wildly unsafe.

Don't you agree?

Not only because both hands are occupied with hot cylinders,

but also

you're wearing these these gloves and they're not leather driving gloves.

They're little, they're knit gloves for the North Dakota winter, I suppose, or probably for the North Dakota summer.

But they're knit gloves, which are slidey on your steering wheel.

They're not going to, they have no grip to them, right?

They look like slidey knit gloves.

Yeah, they're probably a little bit slippery.

I don't think I've dropped a whole mug of soup.

No, probably spilled coffee, though.

Scott, was this photo staged?

No, so after we knew we were coming on the podcast, we were just running an errand and I saw that and I was like, oh, I gotta, I gotta send this in because this is this is the whole thing.

Like, this is like not a normal way to road trip snack.

And if I'm honestly surprised, I'm the one being taken to court here.

It probably should have been the other way around.

Yeah, well, you're being taken to court for your razzing.

Nicole, describe the razzing.

Well, so like I said, he, it seems like he sets me up to then razz me because in this case, he had made not only the porridge, but the coffee.

He made them both.

I put them in vessels, too.

You were just following orders?

No, I was just running behind eating breakfast.

And so I did it on the road.

But

you think that this was a frame job?

I don't know that it was intentionally a frame job, but it seems like a lot of times he will be so nice to make breakfast, make food, make me coffee most days, but then give me a hard time about bringing it with, or if I spill it on myself, like I have spilled coffee.

Which you've spilled, you've spilled coffee?

Like dribbled it on my shirt or spilled it in the car, like on the screen.

Right.

And what happens when you spill coffee?

You decide to hit the cruise control and then get some packet of shout wipes and start working on your blouse.

I have a tied-to-go pen that

usually.

Yeah, but whatever you do, you never stop.

You never stop going forward.

You don't pull over to safety at any point.

Not unless it's really, if it was, if the whole cup spilled or something like a huge spill, but usually it's just a little dribble, so then I'll just dab.

Uh-huh.

Okay.

I do the dabbing myself, though.

I guess you should be thankful, Scott, that you're not asked to dab.

And, Your Honor, can I just respond to the accusation that I'm setting her up?

There have been times where I packed what I thought were good snacks for a road trip, like mixed nuts or jerky.

And then Nicole complains that it's not the right snacks.

So then it's like, oh, well, now we have to bring something that she would rather have because then she wasn't happy with the snacks.

So I think it's less an issue with I'm trying to set her up, but more that she's made clear these are the snacks I want on the road trip.

And I'm going to get her.

You have no choice but to make them for her.

Yeah, I understand.

What's wrong with mixed nuts and jerky, Nicole?

They're dry.

Dry.

And you can't dip them.

It doesn't.

You got to dip.

You've got to dip.

Or like a yogurt isn't dry, so I'll eat that.

I could see a college student dipping jerky if there were a ranch on hand.

Yeah, I would totally dip jerky into some ranch.

It's perfect for my lifestyle.

Not sure I would do it while driving.

If you were Dan McCoy and Stuart Wellington and you were in college in Indiana, you'd drive jerky.

Yeah.

In a second.

There are a couple of jerky dippers for sure.

I dare them to defy it.

I dare them to deny it.

Jerky dippers over there at the flop house.

Nicole, you brought Scott to court, which is wild, specifically to

make me order to cease and desist the Razzing that he does.

What form does the Razzing take?

Imitate the Razzing, please.

Well, it's usually

like gentle, but non-stop.

Like it won't,

he won't not give me a hard time for

like packing a yogurt or if I spill a coffee on myself or something.

It just opens the gates.

And I what is it?

What is it?

Do your imitation of Scott.

My imitation of Scott.

Yeah, he's a low-key set, low-key San Jose guy.

You do a little imitation.

Well, my imitation of Scottish usually usually starts with like, I'm actually like, well, actually, you should have seen this coming.

Wait a minute.

Are you married to Dan McCoy?

That was kind of an imitation of Dan McCoy.

You're saying that his unrelenting low-key razzing

is a distraction to you?

It might make you a less safe driver?

Yes.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Because

then I have to put all my energy into pushing back against the razzing.

Scott, are you allowed to eat in the car?

Yeah.

What kind of snacks do you like?

You know, I'm more of a salty, savory guy.

So I'd be happy with the mixed nuts, jerky, or even

chips.

I like some easy, snackable fruit.

Like I'm not going to want to snack on a peach.

It's going to drip everywhere, but like

blueberries or grapes or something would be great.

Dry hand food.

Yeah.

For the most part, right?

Dry hand food.

Do you enjoy a road trip where you're required to dip fries and ketchup and keep handing them to Nicole?

Is that fun for you?

You know, I'm not going to come here and say that it's like my highlighter of the week or anything, but Nicole does make a point is that there's not a lot in between towns here.

So you got to do something to pass the time aside from, you know, listening to podcasts or counting how many cows are on each side of the road.

How many are there?

Oh, it depends.

On last count.

Oh, well, it's more of a game of who can get accumulate the most without going by a cemetery because then you lose all your cows.

And when you pass a cow, do you go, cow?

Sometimes you call them out like, hey, cows.

Yeah, right.

Moo cows.

Jesse Thorne, do you remember when we were on that road trip?

We were on tour?

I remember remember that.

And you and Laura Valk kept saying, hey, there are cows over there.

What did I say?

I don't know, John.

What did you say?

You don't remember how much I hated seeing cows?

You didn't like seeing cows.

I've seen them all.

Seen them all.

I've seen jerseys.

Oh, yeah.

You would list every type of cow that you've seen.

Nothing.

It comes rushing back to my mind.

You'd list every kind of it's okay.

I don't enjoy seeing cows.

I mostly like seeing goats.

Hereford, Cimental, Aberdeen, Limousine, Belgian Blues, Bifalo, Brangus, Chillingham, Red Angus, Belted Galloway, Brown Swiss.

I've seen them all.

The dream would be to be driving down a road, maybe in North Dakota, one of the Dakotas.

Yeah.

And you look out your window, and there's a goat standing on a sheep.

That would be incredible.

I would look out.

I would definitely count that.

Goats love to stand on things.

They do.

They do love to stand on stuff.

And sheep love to do nothing much.

Be stood on.

I'll tell you what, if if I was driving through anywhere and I saw a Hungarian gray steer with those big old horns, I would count that.

That would count.

Otherwise, I'm not interested.

You might be interested in a Dexter.

They're like mini cows.

I might be interested in a Dexter.

That's true.

How often do you see those around North Dakota?

There's some folks that raise registered ones south of Bismarck here.

So there's one ranch?

Yeah, they got a good herd of them.

You're kind of making Nicole's argument for her that this place is so boring that you got to take your life in your hands every time you drive around just for a little excitement.

Or you could have Dexters, but not register them.

Ooh, unregistered.

Rogue Dexters?

Now we're talking exciting.

Nicole, I'm aligned North Dakota there just a minute ago, and I apologize for that.

What's it like there?

I'm very curious.

I've never been to either of the Dakotas.

What's it like?

So North Dakota is beautiful.

However,

the interstate system kind of flattens a lot of it, but it makes it really speedy to get around.

So most of our road tripping time is on I-94 between Bismarck and Fargo, which is not the most scenic drive.

Getting off of that, gorgeous, lots of cattle lakes, lots of wildlife area, but most of our drive is very,

very flat and very straight.

And you can see for a very long, long distance.

But this is not why you live in North Dakota.

I understand you're still trying to win this case about eating salad while drugs.

Okay.

Give me some facts about North Dakota that make me want to take a road trip there.

Like Scott did well with the Dexter mini cows.

Tell me about it.

You're from North Dakota.

Tell me about it.

I am from North Dakota.

So you could road trip out here and meet my family.

But I'd like that.

We also have Teddy Roosevelt National Park, like I mentioned, very, also very scenic and beautiful.

Our state parks are gorgeous.

I am a painter, so I, in the summer, spend a lot of time painting outdoors or teaching kids and adults about making art, about nature.

So there's lots of unique opportunities for that here.

I'm sure it's a beautiful place to paint.

It is.

It has great light.

Do you know that I once wrote an entire radio essay for my NPR show, Bullseye, about paintings of cows?

No, I'll have to go back and listen to that.

That sounds great.

18th and 19th century were really

great centuries for paintings of cows where the cow looks kind of rectangular.

Did you go back to medieval paintings at all?

Because their interpretations of animals are always really entertaining.

It looks like people that have never seen animals before doing paintings.

I love that.

I love it.

I remember that radio essay very well.

In fact,

I know a portion of it by heart, and it goes like this: Dutch Belted, Galilee,

Horror,

Terry Shorthorn,

parta alcohol.

Gotta do some fries and some

Podgeman's mouth.

British white cattle, white park cattle, Lake and Velder.

Oh, there's that Hungarian gray again.

Scott, you are not from North Dakota and you have some background in the condiment world.

Is that not so?

Yeah, I'd say that's fair.

Yeah, it says here you used to make and sell hot sauce and mustard.

Yes.

Yes.

I used to be in the restaurant industry.

and then now I work more on the farm side of farm to table.

So I kind of need a little creative outlet for the cooking side.

So I do some small batch hot sauce and mustards just kind of for fun.

Just for you now or are you still selling it?

I'll sell at farmers markets.

Yeah, it's Morningside Heights Provisions is my little brand.

Sure.

Named after a neighborhood in Manhattan.

Makes sense.

And our neighborhood.

Our neighborhood in Bismarck is the Morningside Heights neighborhood as well.

Oh, now I'm getting to learn a little bit about Bismarck.

What's going on in Morningside Heights?

They have a coffee shop.

They have a comic book store.

What?

No, no, it's mostly just residential.

But we've

got a park.

Yeah, an arts park.

And, but you moved to North Dakota.

Why, Scott?

To be with Nicole or is that where you met?

No, Nicole and I met in California.

And I have a degree in soil science.

So

North Dakota provided a lot of interesting opportunities for...

for work that were harder to come by in California.

And also seasons seemed interesting to me.

You're sure.

And it's her family is there too, right?

I mean, it's her home.

Yeah.

It's a good place to spend that dirty money.

Oh.

You were out there in California and the love of your life said, move back home with me to North Dakota.

You can serve me salad in our Subaru.

And you're like, yeah.

Well, that part wasn't really on the table at the time because when you're in California, Nicole.

None of it's on the table.

That's the point.

Nicole doesn't like driving in cities.

So in California, I did most of the driving.

And then when we moved out here, then she started taking over.

So I didn't really know that the whole car salads were even off the table, as it were.

Why don't you get, why don't you drive and give her some, some car salad time?

You know, she says she likes driving more than I do.

And that might be true, but mostly she gets car sick when she passenges, to use that word again.

Nicole, does your car have passive safety systems like responsive cruise control or lane correction?

No, no, my car's a little bit older than that.

It's a Subaru, right?

That's what I noticed.

It is a Subaru.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What are we looking at?

A Forester or an Outback here?

Outback.

What year is it?

What year is my car?

2011.

Oh, yeah.

That's a vintage.

Why do you ask, Jesse, if it has those safety systems?

Well, those are systems that are one step short of a self-driving vehicle.

So in a context where you have no reason to expect that a car will cut you off or do something unexpected on the road or that there will be unexpected road conditions and

you could get away with having one hand on the wheel in relative safety just as long as that one hand is also gripping a mug of oatmeal exactly you know what i'm talking about meal on the wheel that's the rule

10 and two meal meals on the wheels so i don't have any corrective things in my car but uh north dakota builds a lot of rumble strips into the sides of roads so um they obviously don't trust their drivers either to

how would would you even know they're there unless you're rumbling those strips all the time, Nicole?

I've rumbled one or two, but I know that they're on the interstates and most of our highways.

How many strips does Nicole rumble, Scott?

Not very many.

Once in a while.

Do you fear for your life, Scott?

You know, honestly, no.

Nicole is in general a very safe driver.

And we've been driving in inclement weather conditions.

Like we got hit with a snow squall while driving last year and that was terrifying.

And Nicole had nothing in her hands except a

coffee down for that.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

All right, good.

It's to some degree context-sensitive based on the driving conditions.

I don't worry about myself.

I feel like if something were to come up, she would probably just drop whatever she was holding.

And hopefully

it wouldn't scald her.

Yeah.

As a Californian who's adapted to North Dakota-style lackadaisical driving,

Do you buy the argument that this is a relatively safe way to move from place to place while snacking on soups or meals?

You know, there's probably safer ways to snack.

What is this about if it's not about the safety of you and others on the road, Scott?

I mean, I guess there is a safety argument, but I think that that's maybe more minor here.

I think the bigger thing is, you know, some foods are just more acceptable as road trip foods, like a burrito or something that's like wrapped up.

So the idea that like Nicole's going to be sitting here with a fork and a salad with like dressing, it's just comical to me.

And then the bigger issue, I think, to me is that inevitably she spills on her shirt and then gets in a bad mood.

And that kind of permeates the car trip for the next 20, 30 minutes.

And it's like, well, you kind of brought this on yourself.

Nicole, you just got razzed.

I did get razzed.

I just heard some razzin in real time.

And also, the last time that I spilled on my shirt on a road trip, it was because you wanted sandwiches and the sandwich fell apart on me.

So, yeah, I wouldn't say, Jesse, would you eat a burrito, a mission-style burrito, if you were driving a Subaru in North Dakota?

That's a two-handed food, John.

That's what I thought too.

Simply too girthsome.

I don't know what a Bismarck burrito looks like.

I presume it has lettuce and french fries in it, Scott?

Probably lettuce, unfortunately, but no french fries.

There's one solution to this, Scott, which is making your wife wear a car poncho.

Yeah, that is.

You know what I mean?

A ranch poncho, or I guess not ranch anymore.

A honey mustard smock.

Yeah, I mean, that seems like that would kind of solve my main issue here.

Except then she'd bring up another issue, which is trying to deal with getting Nicole to wear a smock every time we drive.

Nicole, should I order you to wear a special food smock, a bib,

while driving?

No, that sounds pretty terrible.

I do have a vintage

knit poncho, but I think spilling on that might make me cranky.

Nicole, you're a painting teacher.

Admit that you have a full supply of smocks.

I do have quite a few smocks, but and not a small collection of ponchos either, I bet bet you.

I do have a couple ponchos.

It seems like the paint and the food always spills wherever the smock is not covering, though.

Yeah, but if you got a full-body poncho, then, I mean, this would probably be a good solution for you.

I mean, why not stop and have a meal somewhere?

Usually just adds time to an already kind of long.

boring trip.

And so we would rather get there sooner and maybe like Fargo actually has lots of great restaurants.

So maybe eat food when we get there.

So the snacks are just to get us there.

Right.

So there's not a lot in between?

Not a lot.

There are a couple

like truck stops and fast food restaurants off the road, but not really much for

sit-down.

Right.

I would stop at that truck stop, maybe get some biscuits and gravy.

You know what I mean?

Biscuits and sausage gravy.

And then you can bring them in the car and dip the biscuits into the sausage gravy as you drive.

That sounds great.

Have you ever considered rigging up some kind of device?

No, I haven't.

You can rig up a mechanism, surely, where you can put some dips.

I mean, this is not something that you could sell.

It sounds like something you would see in the Sharper Image catalog or Skymall, except for the fact that it would be illegal immediately because it's dangerous.

But you could surely put something together where you could have a dip cup that isn't your husband.

I've seen dip cups for cup holders, but unfortunately Subaru,

I'm a big fan of Subaru, but not enough cup holders as it is.

So I didn't want to give one up just for dips.

You've seen dip cups for cup holders for cars for sale?

Yes.

Where?

The Midwest.

Yeah, right.

Probably in a truck stop.

Oh, my goodness.

I guess it's very common, right?

I don't know that it's very common.

I don't think I've seen anyone else eat a salad while driving.

No, but definitely fries and dipping them.

Yeah, I guess the dips.

Yeah.

Yeah, I remember during COVID that people were selling dip holders that would attach to your air vent.

Here, I was thinking that I had invented something, but it's our, I mean, for heaven's sake.

But we could attach the salad to the steering wheel, and then that's still your invention.

I'm never going to drive in, I'm never going to drive in the Midwest again.

These people are just

dipping their food while texting, I bet you.

This salad wheel invention, I love.

If it had a gimbal so that it maintained its level, you could also potentially, I don't know if you're familiar with these motion sickness eyeglasses that have a blue liquid inside of the hollow frames to maintain your line of horizon sight, but I think you could do that, but with salad.

Yes, Jennifer Marmor has been sending us pictures of these anti-motion sickness goggles.

Yeah, I've seen those because I got really sick on a train.

And so I think the next time we have to go on a train, I'm going to get those glasses and definitely eat a salad at the same time.

Or you could get them and let Scott drive for a while and eat your salad and not be sick.

I could, yeah.

What's more embarrassing, a car salad smock or a car salad goggles?

They well, they're both embarrassing and they both would take a little bit of prep because I would have to put contacts in to wear the

to wear the motion sickness goggles.

And I would have to make sure nobody was going to see me if i was wearing the poncho the food poncho nicole if i were to rule in your favor you'd like me to order that uh scott stop razzing you yeah

okay scott if i were to rule in your favor what would you have me order i mean it seems like you're okay with nicole eating all these dippables and and drippables realistically i don't think nicole is going to change how she wants to eat her food um because she has pretty strong preferences and that's fine I guess what I would ask is that, yeah, maybe there's a smock situation or just figuring out how to prevent her from spilling on herself and bringing the mood down on the road trip because it's kind of a bummer when she's in a bad mood for 20 minutes because she spilled on herself.

So I guess I'd seek an injunction on her grumping up the car.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Nicole, how do you feel about your chances?

Not great.

Scott, how are you feeling?

I'm still surprised.

I'm the one that was being brought to court here.

I think Nicole's position is wildly out there, so I guess I'm hoping that the judge will be just.

What's the weirdest thing you've ever eaten while driving, Scott?

Oh, that's a good question.

You're from the Bay Area.

Have you ever tried to eat a burrito while driving?

You know, not while I was driving, maybe when I was in the passenger seat.

Oh, one time I ate a, it was a lamb seat kebab wrapped in naan that i ate while driving and that was pretty good that does sound really good i'd love to eat that right now

well we'll see what judge hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment

you know we've been doing my brother my brother me for 15 years and

maybe you stopped listening for a while maybe you never listened and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years i know where this has ended up but no no you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case and we're headed to the San Francisco Bay Area in January.

That's right, because San Francisco Sketch Fest is coming right up.

We are going to be returning to San Francisco to bring live justice to the Palace of Fine Arts on January the 27th at 4 p.m.

I love a 4 p.m.

show.

Everyone does.

Come and see us.

Go to sfsketchfest.com to get your tickets now, not only to our show, but everything that SF Sketchfest has to offer, which is everything.

A ticket to a SF Sketchfest show, whether it's ours or someone else's, makes a wonderful gift.

And in the wonderful gift department, I just wanted to point out two quick things.

Our live stream is still for sale at vanfreaksroadshow.com.

You can still get that live show throughout the end of this year, vanfreaksroadshow.com.

But also,

some people noticed while watching the live stream that when they go to the merch store of the live stream, not only is there a lot of great Judge John Hodgman merch, but there is also

the last few Ragnarok survival kits in existence.

This is the

DVD copy of my Ragnarok one-person show from 2012 on Netflix, as well as survival mayonnaise, my custom-made all-gender fragrance, a clipping of my mustache and a little test tube, everything you need to replicate my DNA, a really, really weird long video that I put on a thumb drive.

We only made 500 of these.

There are only a few of them left.

We decided to sell them off at vanfreaksroadshow.com.

You get the live stream, you hit the merch store, and they're at a discount.

They're only 55 bucks.

So, if you've been wanting to see the Ragnarok show, because Netflix took it down and

they will never show it again, this is your last chance to see it.

I'm only mentioning it because people asked vanfreaksroadshow.com, sfsketchfest.com.

You got any gift suggestions for the holidays, Jesse Thorne?

Last-minute impulse buys that people can get maybe at the Put This On Shop?

Absolutely.

The Put This On Shop is full of awesome treasures, big and small, mostly literally physically small.

Yeah.

Because it's easier to mail something small.

We just posted a whole pastel of bracelets suitable for men and women.

I have to say, all the things that put this on shop, this is one of the most curated of curated spots.

There's so many cool things here, so many items that are beautiful and carefully chosen and affordable.

Whether you want a large Native American turquoise and coral silver ring, which is pretty beautiful and fancy, or something as simple as a bunch of early 20th century dog breed pins.

Put thisonshop.com is a great place to go.

And if you're in Southern California on the 16th of December, we'll be at the South Pasadena Flea Market.

You can find the information on Instagram or wherever.

It's a great little flea market, great place to buy some gifts for friends and family, not just from us, but there's lots of great vendors there.

So if you're in LA, we'll see you at the South Pass Flea Market on the 16th.

So pull over and get out your scratch paper and write these things down.

sfsketchfest.com for San Francisco Sketchfest.

We're going to be there live in January.

FanfreaksRoadshow.com for the Van Freaks live stream, as well as that old Ragnarok survival kit.

PutThisOnShop.com for all of your Put This On Shop delights that can be sent to you in the mails.

And live selling of cool stuff with your friend Jesse Thorne at the flea market in South Pasadena.

Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Truly, the world is upside down, and I have gone mad.

Jesse, that's what I took away from this.

Yeah.

Because

this is one of those situations.

I could have told you that as soon as you started listing types of cow.

This is one of the situations where I made a joke in what I might term the old areas of my expertise style of taking an idea, such as eating,

dipping poppers in ranch dressing while driving and taking it and extrapolating it out to its most ludicrous conclusion, which is a vent-mounted dip cup for your car.

And I made that joke, and then Scott and Nicole reflected back at me that that's a real thing that people have.

And I realize that it is a different driving culture where you are.

And I also realize there's a market out there, Jesse.

I love your idea for the salad gimbal.

The salad gimbal, if I understand it, Jesse, is a salad plate that maintains its attitude, position, you know, its horizontal attitude, and you suction cup it to the middle of the steering wheel so it's right in front of you.

Yeah.

And it's got a fork attached to it, maybe with a little, like a curly retracting cord or something, so you never lose it.

Maybe a microphone arm type device.

Yeah, exactly.

And then it maintains its horizontal attitude no matter how you steer the car, if you're going around a curve or whatever.

But here's the one thing.

It's voice activated because at a certain point, you're going to need to put your fork in that salad.

And if it gimbals, it'll just spill onto your lap.

So you need to say, hey, Siri, stabilize the salad gimbal.

I'm sorry about that, Scott and Nicole, but we got the copyright on that.

We got the patent on that going, and we're going to get that money from the sharks.

I look forward to buying one.

I have to say that what you're doing is not safe.

I have to say this because I believe it.

And I have to say this before

I eat garbage all over every piece of social media that we post this on.

This is not, it's not safe.

I get you that you're in a place where there aren't that many humans around and you have high visibility and you're on cruise control.

But I'll say this:

in a 2011 Subaru outback, was it?

Without a dedicated dip cup holder, extra not safe.

So what I'm saying to you, Nicole, is I respect your Bismarckian culture.

And I understand that you have more visibility and there are straight roads.

And if you had a car that had, that was looking out for you

while you were eating a salad,

then I might say,

It's none of my business.

But that's all I would say.

And I wouldn't say it to you on a podcast either.

And I'm not saying it now.

Don't drive and be distracted.

This is the official policy of the Judge Shun Hodgen podcast, and I mean it.

But that is not entirely the issue here because even Scott himself, who has been so vanilla sauced into his Stockholm syndrome that he doesn't feel that he's at any risk, is like the real issue here is I don't like it when Nicole eats a food and gets it on her, on her clothes, and then she's in a bad mood for 20 minutes.

So I'm going to order you to wear a poncho if you're going to eat in the car.

I mean,

I don't know what else to do.

It's not safe for you to be eating in the car, but one thing that might dissuade you from doing it is having to wear a salad smock of shame.

You can get one, I'm sure, at any smock dispensary in Bismarck.

Or you can get one of your dad's old dress shirts and wear it backwards.

And I will encourage Scott to not razz so long as, well, I think this will solve the razzing.

And I hope it also solves the eating while driving.

And then I also want to add one more thing to the sentence, which is that you drive your vehicle to Acadia National Park

and let us know so we can see you in the parking lot.

And

we can mark off that license plate.

We'll park and eat a salad while we wait.

Yeah, you park and eat a salad.

What a wonderful idea.

Park,

have a little salad, and be on your way.

Another great idea.

Park at a truck stop and get some chicken fried steak.

These are the great things to do on a road trip.

Park

and look at the natural beauty of the interstate.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Drive.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Nicole, how are you feeling about this judgment?

I think it's fair.

I maybe should have seen it coming that it wasn't going to go in my favor, but I think I'll be shamed out of, I don't think I want to wear a smock, so I think I'll have to eat standing still on the side of the road somehow.

I mean, you could look at this as an opportunity to wear a smock.

That's true.

Scott, how are you feeling?

You know, I think it's a fair ruling and the idea of taking a break to park and have a meal that seems like safer, but also probably better for, you know, digestion and mental health and everything.

So, and a road trip to Arcadia sounds fun too.

Nicole, Scott, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

In a moment, we'll have swift justice.

First, our thanks to Redditor Jackal Kaboom for naming this week's episode Car Edible Witness.

I love it when a Redditor just uses their regular name.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, just use your name.

Like, I'm on Reddit.

I'm John Hodgman.

I don't have anything.

And, you know, Jackal Kaboom, you got a name like that.

Just use it.

Don't come up with a handle.

It's cool.

Chat about the show on Reddit at maximumfund.reddit.com.

That's where we ask for our title suggestions as well.

Evidence and photos from the show are posted on the webpage for this episode of the program at maximumfun.org, as well as on Instagram.

We are at Judge John Hodgman there.

John Hodgman created by

John Hodgman created by Mr.

and Mrs.

Hodgman.

True.

Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

This episode was engineered by Dave Thompson at Prairie Public in Bismarck, North Dakota, edited by A.J.

McKeon.

Marie Barty Salinas runs our social media.

Our producer is Jennifer Jennifer Marmor.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment, StarzGo on the maximum fun subreddit says, another classic example of someone, just use a regular name.

If your name is StarzGo.

Yeah, that's Starley Kind's cousin.

Yeah.

If my, that's how being a cousin works.

If my family eats ice cream between December and March, my ex-husband says we're eating it out of season.

Is ice cream season a thing?

So let me understand this.

StarzGo

will sometimes eat ice cream between December and March.

And StarsGo's ex-husband says that StarsGo is eating it out of season.

That's correct.

The ex-husband says this.

Ex-husband says that.

Right.

Okay.

Here's my verdict.

StarzGo, I'm glad you're divorced.

Bingo.

You don't need this person in your life.

StarzGo, bingo.

Eat ice cream when you want to.

Don't eat it in the car, though.

Eat it in the car only if it's parked.

Get some ice cream and eat it in the car when you're parked.

We've talked a lot about food to eat in the car, but there are probably more disputes about car trips and road trips that we haven't heard yet.

I've been getting some of your wonderful disputes about group travel,

like when you go on a family vacation or whatever.

That's also a road trip situation a lot of the time.

If you and another person are trapped in a car for hours, you know you're going to have a squabble.

So let's get your road trip cases up in here.

What member of your touring band hogs control of the stereo system?

What car game is the worst?

Why does your weird dad insist on playing it?

Do you want to take the scenic route even though your partner prefers the quickest route?

Send your car trip disputes to me, Judge John Hodgman.

Send them at maximumfund.org slash jjho.

Maximumfund.org slash jjho.

There's a form you fill out.

It couldn't be easier.

And it doesn't just have to be road trip disputes, right, Jesse?

No, any kind of dispute.

This whole show runs on your disputes.

So put some fuel in our tank at maximumfund.org/slash JJ Ho.

And we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Maximum Fund, a worker-owned network of artist-owned shows supported directly by you.