Car-edible Witness

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
This week, Car Edible Witness.

Nicole brings the case against her partner, Scott. Nicole says Scott razzes her too much because of a road trip snacking system.
Scott says her messy snacks deserve to be razzed. Who's right?

Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.
There are very few things I don't eat with ranch. I just like it.

And it helps make some things easier to eat, so I always have it with my meals. When we got our food, I asked for some ranch.

The waiter said they didn't have any and offered to bring out some kind of sour cream and dill sauce. I tried it and they just weren't the same.

I told Michael I'd be right back, took my wallet and left the restaurant. I had seen a convenience store close by when arriving, so I went, bought a bottle of ranch, and came back.

Michael looked looked shocked, but didn't say anything, and ate his food. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.
Nicole and Scott, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God, or whatever? We do. Yeah, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's watching his carbohydrates intake?

And so when you're on tour with him and you buy some snacks at a gas station or whatever, and you're thinking is that he's going to eat half of them.

He doesn't eat any of them, and then you eat all of them. Indeed.
Yeah.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Although it is possible, Jesse, for me to get a little cup of ranch dressing

and just sip it. Yeah.
Just sip a little cup of ranch. Glug, glug.
That's good for me. That's good for my triglycerides.
Just a little cup.

Down it goes. A little demitos of ranch.
Okay, Nicole and Scott, you may be seated.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favorites, can either of you name the piece of culture that that I referenced as I entered this courtroom?

Let's say Nicole, what's your guess?

Well, I was going to guess a mountain goat song, but that doesn't.

Always a good guess. Yeah,

always rhyme, but

yeah, so I guess that's my guess, even though I know it's definitely not that. There need to be more condiment-based mountain goat songs, though, I think.
Yeah,

I think we'll save that for the John Darnell Weird Al Collab album.

I listened to it. It's called We Know Our Market.
The best ever death metal ghost reaper sauce out of Texas. That's what it was.

What song are you going to guess, though, if you were going to guess the Mountain Goats song, just so you can give me a little something from the new album? Yeah, the new album.

Yeah, as he's getting into like saxophone experimentation, why not ranch also? Yeah, some people get into flutes. John gets into sex.

Jenny from Thebes is the name of the new Mountain Goats album. All right, now, Scott, what's your guess? You know,

I came in with a prepared guess, and I don't think it works either. So I'll just go with that.

I was going to do season seven, episode five of The Simpsons when they do you don't win friends with salad.

So

you don't win friends with salad, season five, episode seven.

What happens in that one? That's when Lisa becomes a vegetarian. Oh, gotcha.
Great episode. And that pertains to this case because why, Scott?

Well, when we go on road trips, Nicole tends to enjoy road trip snacks, including things that maybe most people wouldn't consider. Salad, road trip salad.

All right, we'll put a pin in that and come back to it because all guesses were wrong. I was referencing a Reddit post from the very popular Am I the

whole Reddit

that I may have referenced in our episode recently with Nick and Amelia from the Doughboys podcast, Condiment Crimes, which had a lot to do with ranch, which I believe that you enjoy.

Is that correct, Nicole? I do. Yeah, it almost feels like it's mandatory here in the Midwest to enjoy.
Yes. And for the person who posted this post on Reddit, it was absolutely Reddit.

Am I the Earnth Hole

entry was called, Am I the Earnth Hole? Because I brought a bottle of ranch into a restaurant.

This young woman is invited on a date by Michael, who takes her to a hole in the wall, quote, hole in the wall, Polish-Hungarian place where they don't have ranch dressing.

So she goes across the street to the convenience store to get herself a little demitas of ranch.

And at the end of the date, she's completely befuddled when the guy goes, yeah, I don't ever want to see you again.

Quote, her, I told him I wouldn't have had to do it if they had ranch or any dressings like a normal restaurant.

This one was a banger from about eight months ago.

I promised I wouldn't get back to Am I I the whole, but I, but I did it for you. Would she have settled for a different dressing? Is that the implication?

Like a vinaigrette or a honey mustard or something? I have to go back and maybe you missed this in the in the original quote. Quote, there are very few things I don't eat with ranch.
I just like it.

And here's the part that makes me want to vomit. And it helps make some things easier to eat.
So I don't think she would have gone for a honey mustard because this is really an issue of lubrication.

Buttermilk lubrication.

The original post was deleted, but you can find it if you want to read it. It's a wild ride.

But Nicole, you seek justice in this case, correct? I do, yeah.

And it's because you like to snack in a car, sometimes with a ranch. What's your car snacking system? So we tend to go on quite a few road trips, like to see friends and family and for work.

And so I like to bring things along. To eat.
Yeah, to eat on the way

so that we're not hungry. So this was not invited.
This was not invented in North Dakota. No, rotor snacks are not original.
No. But

I don't agree with the lubrication idea, but I do like

foods that are adequately moistened in different ways. Like I don't like dry food.
I know, sorry. But it's the accurate way to describe it, but I don't like dry food very much.

So things that I can dip or things that I can dress.

A common thing for me to pack would be a Tupperware, a salad, a little cup of dressing, eating it with a fork, not with my hands. Right.

When Scott is driving and you're the passenger, you might sit there. No, usually I'm the driver.

Wow.

See, I knew what she was going to say, Jesse, but maybe you didn't. You're forking and driving?

Yeah, I mean, we have like long, open, straight roads. So forking and driving is not as dangerous as it would be.
I wouldn't do it in the city normally. DWF driving while forking.

I knew what this was about because I remember when I got your email originally, Nicole, I was like, this cannot be.

And I'm like, are you talking about eating a salad while driving? And your explanation was, well, I live in North Dakota. And then I was like, wait a minute.
Okay.

This is a case that might be worth hearing because I have never been to North Dakota, but I can imagine, and you explained,

that it's long straightaways with five miles of visibility. No humans live there, and there's a lot of cruise control going on.
I'm not saying that I'm finding in your favor. I'm just

doing a little of your argument for you.

Scott,

however, you're not from North Dakota. No, no, I grew up in California in the Bay Area.
Right. So you obviously take issue with your spouse.

Yeah, I mean, the ironic part of this is we were on a road trip when we heard the Linda Holmes coin little weirdsies. So I'm not mad about Nicole eating a salad.

I just think it's weird, and I think I should be allowed to say so. I appreciate your going to Linda Holmes as cover

for your preference, but I don't think that it's a little weirdsy to prefer that you be alive. What is the most outrageous thing you've ever seen Nicole eat while she was driving?

I mean, the salad is up there.

One time we had fries and Nicole, I was passenging and Nicole wanted me to apply ketchup to each fry individually before she would eat it because she didn't want a dry fry.

I mean, there are a couple of terms that have to be sent immediately over to Emily Brewster and Merriam-Webster. Dry fry and passenger.
I've never heard passaging before and I love it.

Maybe that's everyone, some of the everyone talks about in North Dakota or San Jose where you're from, but that's a new regionalism to me, Scott. I like it.

I think they invented that at the Tech Museum of Innovation in San Jose. Yeah, probably so.
What about dips? Do you ever dip anything besides making you dip stuff in ketchup?

Yeah, if it's anything that is, you know, dippable, she'll have the container of a dip if you go to fast food or something. I would say ketchup is out of the ordinary.
I'm not normally a ketchup fan.

Normally, I do want a ranch or a honey mustard or

like if the option was to have dry chicken nuggets or chicken nuggets with a dip, I would only eat them if there was a dip. I wouldn't eat a dry nugget.
Nicole, let me ask you this question.

Is ranch the main one?

So

for me, it used to be, but after we had our daughter, I can't eat dairy. So now I've had to expand my...

I'll ask you a different question. Okay.
Is vegan ranch the main one?

Vegan ranches, unfortunately, are all bad. They're not.
You need. That's not true.
How dare you? You need the buttermilk for me.

To my taste, the buttermilk is intrinsic. But outside of your food sensitivities, which I'm sorry that you're making, you have to make that adjustment, you would agree that ranch is the main one.

Yeah, especially, I do think it's regional.

I think

I love that you just know what I'm talking about.

People had a hard time understanding the concept of the main one when we talked about this on condomin crimes.

Ranch is the main one. Jesse, put it down.
Put it down in the, in the, in the log. Ranch is the main one.
So logged. So logged.
Thank you. I have a question on these road trips.

Do you ever leave North Dakota? Oh, yeah. In the car?

So Scott prefers to fly if we're leaving the state. Right.
But then usually we'll rent a car and drive. Has anyone in North Dakota ever driven across the border of North Dakota into another state?

Oh, yeah.

I object. I don't believe you.

No, it's it. That's mostly how people interact is driving through from Montana to Minnesota or vice versa.
Every Jesse Thorne, let me tell you something.

You and I went to Maine together. Remember how we went on vacation together for a weekend? It was wonderful.
Sometimes I don't go to Maine with you.

Sometimes I go to Maine with my wife, who's a whole human being in her own right. I'll never stop saying it, whatever you say on Reddit.
Sometimes I go to Maine with my wife.

And when we do, every year, she plays the license plate game

where she tries to spot every license plate in the United States

driving around or going through parking lots. And like, we'll go to

Acadia National Park, one of the most popular national parks, and we won't go see the Cadillac Mountain or anything. We'll just cruise the parking lot looking for plates.

Every year, Nicole, Alaska, no problem. Hawaii, Hawaii, an island, no problem.

South Dakota, forget about it.

By the end of June, we've seen South Dakota twice. North Dakota, not once.

Not one time. What are you doing in North Dakota? Why aren't you coming to Maine? Maybe we have enough natural beauty here.

Acadia National Park, I hear, is gorgeous, but we have the least visited national park in the country, and it's gorgeous. Teddy Roosevelt National Park.
Quite a brag.

What about jalapeno poppers? Absolutely. I haven't had them much because, again, no dairy.
But while I was eating dairy, jalapeno poppers were up there and they must be dipped in ranch.

Scott, is this a problem that has solved itself since you've had a baby?

No, I mean, we haven't been doing as many road trips, but we still do them.

And it's, you know, still is an issue that we'll be going somewhere and then, you know, Nicole will want to eat a salad while driving or eat something that makes a huge mess.

And it just, I don't know, it seems to me like there are certain foods that are better designed for road trip snacking and they're ones that aren't going to drip all over you, aren't going to make a mess, easy to eat i don't know it just seems like there's got to be some better solutions here you think there could be better arrangements what what is the arrangement now nicole can you describe how you eat dippables while you're driving yeah the most common way is for

uh whatever the dipping sauce is to either sit in between me and scott so that we can share it or even more common he'll hold it and i can dip food in it or pretty often he'll dip something in it and hand it to me to eat.

And a lot of times, not always, but a lot of times it's a food that he has packed for us. So he is

assisting in the dipping, but then giving me a hard time about it. Does he ever help you with dabbing?

Not yet, but I bet if I asked he would. He's very accommodating.

Scott, do you think that if Nicole asked you on your drive home to hold a napkin and dab the corners of her mouth, you would be willing to do it?

I mean, we drove here separately. So, but in the hypothetical that we were heading home together,

I mean, it'd be kind of rude not to, I suppose.

Yeah, I mean, it's right there in Emily Post.

Nicole, you're saying that Scott often packs and plans the dippables? Yeah, he's the main

person in charge of food in our household. And so right.
And so he's kind of a hypocrite objecting to your behavior in this way because he's enabling it.

It's almost like he likes setting me up to make fun of me. Have you ever heard of vanilla sauce? No.
V-A-N-I-L-J-S-A-S with a with a circle over the A? No, it's new to me. It's vanilla sauce.

It's one of the most common sauces in Sweden. Oh.

Nicole, do you know what the capital of Sweden is? Stockholm is the answer. Stockholm.
Have you heard of the Stockholm syndrome?

That I've I've heard of, yeah.

Yeah. That's when the captive becomes enamored of the captor and puts a little vanilla sauce on their food for them, even though it's dangerous and they don't want to be doing it.

And afterwards, dabs the corner of their mouth. Exactly.

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One of you sent in some evidence, correct? Yeah, I sent in some evidence. Let's take a look at this photo.
I'm looking at a photo that Scott has submitted.

Okay,

this is a photo. I presume these are your beloved hands driving, right, Nicole? They are.
Driving a Subaru. Is the Subaru in motion? Hard to tell because it's a photo.
Yeah. Yeah.

You're really digging yourself a hole with your soup spoon here because you're driving and you're and you've got one begloved hand wrapped around what looks like maybe a Yeti coffee mug or something.

Yeah. And the other, an open mug

of Campbell's soup with a spoon sticking out of it,

which you are pressing into the steering wheel to drive. Is this true or not?

That's all true. Well, it's not Campbell's soup.
That was oatmeal in there. It's a Campbell's soup mug.

Right. But it was porridge.
Yeah. In the mug.

Honestly, yeah, okay. I mean, because the actually that makes a small difference in your favor, Nicole, because I was thinking that there might be some piping hot tomato soup.

But with oatmeal, the slosh factor is a little lower, I suppose. So I would, if it had been tomato soup in there, there wouldn't be a spoon in there because I will sip on a soup on the road.

Yeah, right. But for something thick like a porridge, it needs a spoon.
Your defense is, yeah, no, it wouldn't be soup. I need a spoon to eat my porridge while I'm driving.
Yeah, yeah.

Not only does this seem unsafe, it seems wildly unsafe. Don't you agree? Not only because both hands are occupied with hot cylinders,

but also you're wearing these gloves and they're not leather driving gloves. They're little, they're knit gloves for the North Dakota winter, I suppose, or probably for the North Dakota summer.

But they're knit gloves, which are slidy on your steering wheel. They're not going to, they have no grip to them, right? They look like slidy knit gloves.
Yeah, they're probably a little bit slippery.

I don't think I've dropped a whole mug of soup. No, probably spilled coffee, though.
Scott, was this photo staged?

No, so after we knew we were coming on the podcast, we were just running an errand and I saw that and I was like, oh, I got to, I got to send this in because this is, this is the whole thing.

Like, this is like not a normal way to road trip snack. And And if I'm honestly surprised I'm the one being taken to court here, it probably should have been the other way around.

Yeah, well, you're being taken to court for your razzing.

Nicole, describe the razzing.

Well, so like I said, he, it seems like he sets me up to then razz me because in this case, he had made not only the porridge, but the coffee. He made them both.

I put them in. vessels too.
You were just following orders?

No, I was just running behind eating breakfast and so i did it on the road but but you think you think that he you think that this was a frame job i don't know that it was intentionally a frame job but it seems like a lot of times he will be so nice to make breakfast make food make me coffee uh most days but then give me a hard time about bringing it with or if i spill it on myself like i have spilled coffee

which you've spilled you've spilled coffee like dribbled it on my shirt or or spilled it in the car, like on the screen.

Right. And what happens when you spill coffee? You decide to hit the cruise control and then get some packet of shout wipes and start working on your blouse.
I have a tied-to-go pen that

usually.

Yeah, but whatever you do, you never stop. You never stop going forward.

You don't pull over to safety at any point.

Not unless it's really... If it was, if the whole cup spilled or something like a huge spill, but usually it's just a little dribble.
So then I'll just dab.

Okay. I do the dabbing myself.

I guess you should be thankful, Scott, that you're not asked to dab. And Your Honor, can I just respond to the accusation that I'm setting her up?

There have been times where I packed what I thought were good snacks for a road trip, like mixed nuts or jerky. And then Nicole complains that it's not the right snacks.

So then it's like, oh, well, now we have to bring something that she would rather have because then she wasn't happy with the snacks.

So I think it's less an issue with I'm trying to set her up, but more that she's made clear these are the snacks I want on the road trip and I'm going to get her.

You have no choice but to make them for her. Yeah, I understand.
What's wrong with mixed nuts and jerky, Nicole? They're dry. Dry.
And you can't dip them. It doesn't.
You got to dip.

You've got to dip.

Or like a yogurt isn't dry. So I'll eat that.
I could see a college student dipping jerky. If there were a ranch on hand.
Yeah, I would totally dip jerky into some ranch.

It's perfect for my lifestyle.

Not sure I would do it while driving. If you were Dan McCoy and Stuart Wellington and you were in college in Indiana, you'd drive jerky.
Yeah. In a second.

There are a couple of jerky dippers for sure. I dare them to defy.
I dare them to deny it. Jerky dippers over there at the flop house.

Nicole, you brought Scott to court, which is wild, specifically to see to make me order to cease and desist the Razzing that he does.

What form does the razzing take? Imitate the razzing, please. Well, it's usually like gentle, but non-stop.
Like it won't,

he won't not give me a hard time for

like packing a yogurt or if I spill a coffee on myself or something. It just opens the gates.
And I what is it? What is it? Do your imitation of Scott. My imitation of Scott.

Yeah, he's a low-key, low-key San Jose guy. You do a little, do a little imitation.

Well, my imitation of Scottish usually usually starts with like, I'm, um, actually, like, well, actually, you should have seen this coming.

Wait a minute, are you married to Dan McCoy? That was a good imitation of Dan McCoy.

You're saying that his unrelenting low-key razzing

is

a distraction to you? It might make you a less safe driver. Yes, yeah.
Absolutely. Because

then I have to put all my energy into pushing back against the rousing. Scott, are you allowed to eat in the car? Yeah.

What kind of snacks do you like?

You know, I'm more of a salty, savory guy. So like I'd be happy with the mixed nuts, jerky, or even

chips. I like some easy, snackable fruit.
Like I'm not going to want to snack on a peach. It's going to drip everywhere, but like

blueberries or grapes or something would be great. Dry hand food.
Yeah. For the most part, right? Dry hand food.

Do you enjoy a road trip where you're required to dip fries and ketchup and keep handing them to Nicole? Is that fun for you?

You know, I'm not going to come here and say that it's like my highlight of the week or anything, but Nicole does make a point is that there's not a lot in between towns here, so you got to do something to pass the time aside from you know listening to podcasts or counting how many cows are on each side of the road.

How many are there? Oh, it depends on last count.

Oh, well, it's more of a game of who can get accumulate the most without going by a cemetery because then you lose all your cows. And when you pass a cow, do you go, cow?

Sometimes you call them out like, hey, cows. Yeah, right.
Moo cows. Jesse Thorne, do you remember when we were on that road trip? We were on tour.
I remember that.

And you and Laura Valk kept saying, hey, there are cows over there. What did I say? I don't know, John.
What did you say? You don't remember how much I hated seeing cows? You didn't like seeing cows.

I've seen them all. Seen them all.
I've seen jerseys. Oh, yeah.

You would list every type of cow that you've seen. Nothing.
It comes rushing back to my mind. You'd list every kind of, it's okay.
I don't enjoy seeing cows. I mostly like seeing goats.

Hereford, Cimental, Aberdeen, Limousine, Belgian Blues, Bifalo, Brangus, Chillingham, Red Angus, Belted Galloway, Brown Swiss. I've seen them all.

The dream would be to be driving down a road, maybe in North Dakota, one of the Dakotas. Yeah.
And you look out your window. And there's a goat standing on a sheep.

That would be incredible.

I would I would definitely count that. Goats love to stand on things.
They do. They do love to stand on stuff.
And sheep love to do nothing much.

Be stood on. I'll tell you what, if I was driving through anywhere and I saw a Hungarian gray steer with those big old horns, I would count that.
That would count.

Otherwise, I'm not interested. You might be interested in a Dexter.
They're like mini cows.

I might be interested in a Dexter. That's true.
How often do you see those around North Dakota? There's some folks that raise registered ones south of Bismarck here. So there's one ranch?

Yeah, they got a good herd of them.

You're kind of making Nicole's argument for her that this place is so boring that you got to take your life in your hands every time you drive around just for a little excitement.

Or you could have Dexters, but not register them. Ooh, unregistered.

Rogue Dexters?

Now we're talking exciting.

Nicole, I'm aligned to North Dakota there just a minute ago, and I apologize for that. What's it like there? I'm very curious.
I've never been to either of the Dakotas. What's it like?

So, North Dakota is beautiful.

However,

the interstate system kind of flattens a lot of it, but it makes it really speedy to get around.

So, most of our road tripping time is on I-94 between Bismarck and Fargo, which is not the most scenic drive.

Getting off of that, gorgeous, lots of cattle lakes, lots of wildlife area, but most of our drive is very,

very flat and very straight. And you can see for a very long, long distance.
But this is not why you live in North Dakota.

I know, I understand you're still trying to win this case about eating salad while drugs. Okay.

Give me some facts about North Dakota that make me want to take a road trip there. Like Scott did well with the Dexter mini cows.

Tell me about you're from you're from North Dakota. Tell me about it.
I am from North Dakota. So you could road trip out here and meet my family.

But I'd like that. We also have Teddy Roosevelt National Park, like I mentioned, very, also very scenic and beautiful.

Our state parks are gorgeous.

I am a painter, so I in the summer spend a lot of time painting outdoors or teaching kids and adults about making art, about nature. So there's lots of unique opportunities for that here.

I'm sure it's a beautiful place to paint. It is.
It is great light. Do you know that I once wrote an entire radio essay for my NPR show, Bullseye, about paintings of cows?

No, I'll have to go back and listen to that. That sounds great.
18th and 19th century were really great centuries for paintings of cows where the cow looks kind of rectangular.

Did you go back to medieval paintings at all? Because their interpretations of animals are always really entertaining. It looks like people that have never seen animals before doing paintings.

I love that. I love it.
I remember that radio essay very well. In fact,

I know a portion of it by heart, and it goes like this. Dutch belted, Galloway.
Oh, no. Horror.
Listen to it.

Parda alcohol. Srize.
Mongelliarde. Podgeman's mouth.
British white cattle, white park cattle, Lake and Velder. Oh, there's that Hungarian gray again.

Scott, you are not from North Dakota and you have some background in the condiment world. Is that not so?

Yeah, I'd say that's fair. Yeah, it says here used to make and sell hot sauce and mustard.
Yes. Yes.

I used to be in the restaurant industry

and then now I work more on the farm side of farm to table. So I kind of need a little creative outlet for the cooking side.
So I do some small batch hot sauce and mustards just kind of for fun.

Just for you now, or are you still selling it? I'll sell at farmers markets.

Yeah, it's Morningside Heights Provisions is my little brand. Sure.
Named after a neighborhood in Manhattan. Makes sense.
And our neighborhood.

Our neighborhood in Bismarck is the Morningside Heights neighborhood as well. Oh, now I'm getting to learn a little bit about Bismarck.
What's going on in Morningside Heights? They have a coffee shop.

They have a comic book store. What? No, no, it's mostly

residential. But we've

got a park. Yeah, an arts park.
And, but you moved to North Dakota. Why, Scott? To be with Nicole, or is that where you met? No, Nicole and I met in California.

And I have a degree in soil science. So

North Dakota provided a lot of interesting opportunities for work that were harder to come by in California. And also seasons seemed interesting to me.

You're sure. And it's her family is there too, right? I mean, it's her home.
Yeah. It's a good place to spend that dirty money.
Oh.

You were out there in California and the love of your life said, move back home with me to North Dakota. You can serve me salad in our Subaru.
And you were like, yeah.

Well, that part wasn't really on the table at the time because when you're in California, Nicole. None of it's on the table.
That's the point.

Nicole doesn't like driving in cities. So in California, I did most of the driving.
And then when we moved out here, then she started taking over.

So I didn't really know that the whole car salads were even off the table, as it were. Why don't you get, why don't you drive and give her some car salad time?

You know, she says she likes driving more than I do. And that might be true, but mostly she gets car sick when she passenges, to use that word again.

Nicole, does your car have passive safety systems like responsive cruise control or lane correction? No, no. My car is a little bit older than that.
It's a Subaru, right? That's what I noticed.

It is a Subaru, yeah. Yeah.
What are we looking at? A Forester or an Outback here? Outback. What year is it? What year is my car? 2011.
Oh, yeah. That's vintage.

Why do you ask, Jesse, if it has those safety systems? Well, those are systems that are one step short of a self-driving vehicle.

So in a context where you have no reason to expect that a car will cut you off or do something unexpected on the road or that there will be unexpected road conditions,

you could get away with having one hand on the wheel in relative safety. Just as long as that one hand is also gripping a mug of oatmeal.
Exactly. You know what I'm talking about? Meal on the wheel.

That's the rule.

10 and 2, meals on the wheels. So I don't have any corrective things in my car, but North Dakota builds a lot of rumble strips into the sides of roads.
So

they obviously don't trust their drivers either.

How would you even know they're there unless you're rumbling those strips all the time, Nicole? I've rumbled one or two, but I know that they're on the interstates and most of our highways.

How many strips does Nicole rumble, Scott?

Not very many. Once in a while.
Do you fear for your life, Scott?

You know, honestly no nicole is in general a very safe driver and we've been driving in inclement weather conditions like we got hit with a snow squall while driving last year and that was terrifying and nicole had nothing in her hands except a wig my coffee down for that yeah oh okay all right good it's to some degree context sensitive based on the driving conditions i don't i don't worry about myself i i feel like if something were to come up she would probably just drop whatever she was holding and hopefully

it wouldn't scald her yeah

as a californian who's adapted to north dakota style lackadaisical driving,

do you buy the argument that this is a relatively safe way to move from place to place while snacking on soups or meals? You know, there's probably safer ways to snack.

What is this about if it's not about the safety of you and others on the road, Scott? I mean, I guess

there is a safety argument, but I think that that's maybe more minor here.

I think the bigger thing is, you know, some foods are just more acceptable as road trip foods, like a burrito or something that's like wrapped up.

So the idea that like Nicole's going to be sitting here with a fork and a salad with like dressing, it's just comical to me.

And then the bigger issue, I think, to me is that inevitably she spills on her shirt and then gets in a bad mood. And that kind of permeates the car trip for the next 20, 30 minutes.

And it's like, well, you kind of brought this on yourself.

Nicole, you just got razzed.

I did get razzed. You just heard some razzin in real time.
And also the last time that I spilled on my shirt on a road trip, it was because you wanted sandwiches and the sandwich fell apart on me. So.

Yeah, I wouldn't say, Jesse, would you eat a burrito, a mission-style burrito, if you were driving a Subaru in North Dakota? That's a two-handed food, John. That's what I thought, too.

Simply too girthsome.

I don't know what a Bismarck burrito looks like. I presume it has lettuce and french fries in it, Scott.

Probably lettuce, unfortunately, but no french fries. There's one solution to this, Scott, which is making your wife wear a car poncho.
Yeah, that is. You know what I mean?

A ranch poncho, or I guess not ranch anymore. A honey mustard smock.

Yeah, I mean, that seems like that would kind of solve my main issue here.

Except then you should bring up another issue, which is trying to deal with getting Nicole to wear a smock every time we drive.

Nicole, should I order you to wear a special food smock, a bib while driving? No, that sounds pretty terrible. I do have a vintage

knit poncho, but I think spelling on that might make me cranky. Nicole, you're a painting teacher.
Admit that you have a full supply of smocks. I do have quite a few smocks, but.

And not a small collection of ponchos either, I bet you.

I do have a couple ponchos. It seems like the paint and the food always spills wherever the smock is not covering, though.
Yeah, but if you got a full body poncho,

Then, I mean, this would probably be a good solution for you. I mean, why not stop and have a meal somewhere? Usually just adds time to an already kind of long, boring trip.

And so we would rather get there sooner and maybe like Fargo actually has lots of great restaurants. So maybe eat food when we get there.
So the snacks are just to

get us there.

Right. So there's not a lot in between?

Not a lot. There are a couple

like truck stops and fast food restaurants off the road, but not not really much for sit-down.

Right.

I would stop at that truck stop, maybe get some biscuits and gravy.

You know what I mean? Biscuits and sausage gravy, and then you can bring them in the car and dip the biscuits into the sausage gravy as you drive. That sounds great.

Have you ever considered rigging up some kind of device? No, I haven't. You can rig up a mechanism, surely, where you can put some dips.
I mean, this is not something that you could sell.

It sounds like something you would see in the Sharper Image catalog or or sky mall, except for the fact that it would be illegal immediately because it's dangerous.

But you could surely put up, put something together where you can have a dip cup that isn't your husband.

I've seen dip cups for cup holders, but unfortunately Subaru,

I'm a big fan of Subaru, but not enough cup holders as it is. So I didn't want to give one up just for dips.
You've seen dip cups for cup holders for cars for sale? Yes.

Where?

The Midwest. Yeah, right.
Probably in a truck stop.

Oh, my goodness. I guess it's very common, right? I don't know that it's very common.
I don't think I've seen anyone else eat a salad while driving. No, but definitely fries and dipping them.

Yeah, I guess the dips. Yeah.
Yeah, I remember during COVID that people were selling dip holders that would attach to your air vent.

Here, I was thinking that I had invented something, but it's our, I mean, for heaven's sake. But we could attach the salad to the steering wheel, and then that's still your invention.

I'm never going to drive in, I'm never going to drive in the Midwest again. These people are just dipping their food while texting, I bet you.

This salad wheel invention, I love it.

If it had a gimbal so that it maintained its level, you could also potentially, I don't know if you're familiar with these motion sickness eyeglasses that have a blue liquid inside of the hollow frames to maintain your line of horizon sight, but I think you you could do that, but with salad.

Yes, Jennifer Marmor has been sending us pictures of these anti-emotion sickness goggles.

Yeah, I've seen those because I got really sick on a train.

And so I think the next time we have to go on a train, I'm going to get those glasses and definitely eat a salad at the same time.

Or you could get them and let Scott drive for a while and eat your salad and not be sick. I could, yeah.
What's more embarrassing, a car salad smock or a car salad goggles?

Well, they're both embarrassing and they both would take a little bit of prep because I would have to put contacts in to wear the

to wear the motion sickness goggles. And I would have to make sure nobody was going to see me if I was wearing the poncho, the food poncho.

Nicole, if I were to rule in your favor, you'd like me to order that Scott stop razzing you? Yeah.

Okay.

Scott, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me order? I mean, it seems like you're okay with Nicole eating all these dippables and drippables.

Realistically, I don't think Nicole is going to change how she wants to eat her food because she has pretty strong preferences, and that's fine.

I guess what I would ask is that, yeah, maybe there's a smock situation or just figuring out how to prevent her from spilling on herself and bringing.

the mood down on the road trip because it's kind of a bummer when she's in a bad mood for 20 minutes because she spilled on herself. So I guess I'd seek an injunction on her grumping up the car.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Nicole, how do you feel about your chances? Not great.

Scott, how are you feeling? I'm still surprised. I'm the one that was being brought to court here.

I think Nicole's position is wildly out there. So I guess I'm hoping that the judge will be just.
What's the weirdest thing you've ever eaten while driving, Scott? Oh, that's a good question.

You're from the Bay Area. Have you ever tried to eat a burrito while driving?

You know, not while I was driving, maybe when I was in the passenger seat. Oh, one time I ate a,

it was a lamb seat kebab wrapped in naan that I ate while driving, and that was pretty good. That does sound really good.
I'd love to eat that right now.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment.

Hello. Hello.
I'm calling on behalf of the Beef and Dairy Network podcast. Oh, no, I'm sorry.
No sales calls. Goodbye.

It's a multi-award-winning podcast featuring guests such as Ted Danson, Nick Offerman, Josie Long.

I don't know what a Josie Long is, and anyway, I'm about to take my mother into town to see Phantom of the Opera at last. You are wasting my time, and even worse, my mother's time.

She only has so much time left. She's 98 years old.
She's only expected to live for another 20 or 30 years. Mother, get your shoes on.
Yes, the orthopedic ones.

I don't want to have to carry you home again, do I? Right. Well, if you were looking for a podcast.
Mother, you're not wearing that, are you? It's very revealing, Mother.

This is a musical theater, not a Parisian bordello. Simply go to maximumfun.org.
I'm reaching for my Samson Galaxy 4 as we speak. Mother! Mother, not that hat!

Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case, and we're headed to the San Francisco Bay Area in January. That's right, because San Francisco Sketch Fest is coming right up.

We are going to be returning to San Francisco to bring live justice to the Palace of Fine Arts on January the 27th at 4 p.m.

I love a 4 p.m. show.
Everyone does. Come and see us.
Go to sfsketchfest.com to get your tickets now, not only to our show, but everything that SF Sketchfest has to offer, which is everything.

A ticket to an SF Sketchfest show, whether it's ours or someone else's, makes a wonderful gift. And in the wonderful gift department, I just wanted to point out two quick things.

Our live stream is still for sale at vanfreaksroadshow.com. You can still get that live show throughout the end of this year, vanfreaksroadshow.com.

But also, some people noticed while watching the live stream that when they go to the merch store of the live stream, not only is there a lot of great Judge John Hodgman merch, but there is also

the last few Ragnarok survival kits in existence.

This is the DVD, DVD copy of my Ragnarok one-person show from 2012 on Netflix, as well as survival mayonnaise, my custom-made all-gender fragrance, a clipping of my mustache in a little test tube, everything you need to replicate my DNA, a really, really weird long video that I put on a thumb drive.

We only made 500 of these. There are only a few of them left.
We decided to sell them off at vanfreaksroadshow.com. You get the live stream, you hit the merch store, and they're at a discount.

They're only 55 bucks. So if you've been wanting to see the Ragnarok show, because Netflix took it down and

they will never show it again, this is your last chance to see it. I'm only mentioning it because people asked.
VanfreaksRoadshow.com, SFSketchfest.com.

You got any gift suggestions for the holidays, Jesse Thorne? Last-minute impulse buys that people can get maybe at the put this on shop? Absolutely.

The put this on shop is full of awesome treasures, big and small, mostly literally physically small. Yeah.
Because it's easier to mail something small.

We just posted a whole pastel of bracelets suitable for men and women. I have to say, all the things that put this on shop, this is one of the most curated of curated spots.

There's so many cool things here.

So many items that are beautiful and carefully chosen and affordable.

Whether you want a large Native American turquoise and coral silver ring, which is pretty beautiful and fancy, or something as simple as a bunch of early 20th century dog breed pins, putthisonshop.com is a great place to go.

And if you're in Southern California on the 16th of December, we'll be at the South Pasadena Flea Market. You can find the information on Instagram or wherever.

It's a great little flea market, great place to buy some gifts for friends and family, not just from us, but there's lots of great vendors there.

So if you're in LA, we'll see you at the South Pass Flea Market on the 16th. So pull over and get out your scratch paper and write these things down.

sfsketchfest.com for san francisco sketchfest we'll be there live in january FanFreaksRoadshow.com for the Van Freaks live stream, as well as that old Ragnarok survival kit.

PutThisonshop.com for all of your put this on shop delights that can be sent to you in the mails. And live selling of cool stuff with your friend Jesse Thorne at the flea market in South Pasadena.

Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Truly, the world is upside down and I have gone mad. Jesse, that's what I took away from this.
Yeah.

Because

this is one of those situations.

I could have told you that as soon as you started listing types of cow.

This is one of those situations where I made a joke in what I might term the old areas of my expertise style of taking an idea such as eating

dipping poppers in ranch dressing while driving and taking it and extrapolating it out to its most ludicrous conclusion, which is a vent-mounted dip cup for your car. And I made that joke.

And then Scott and Nicole reflected back at me that that's a real thing that people have.

And I realize that it is a different driving culture where you are. And I also realize there's a market out there, Jesse.
I love your idea for the salad gimbal.

The salad gimbal, if I understand it, Jesse, is a salad plate that maintains its attitude, position, you know, its horizontal attitude, and you suction cup it to the middle of the steering wheel.

So it's right in front of you. Yeah.
And it's got a fork attached to it, maybe with a little, like a curly retracting cord or something. So you never lose it.
Maybe a microphone arm type device.

Yeah, exactly.

And then it maintains its horizontal attitude no matter how you steer the car, if you're going around a curve or whatever. But here's the one thing.

it's voice activated because at a certain point you're going to need to put your fork in that salad and if it gimbals it'll just spill onto your lap so you need to say hey siri stabilize the salad gimbal i'm sorry about that scott and nicole but we got the the copyright on that we got the patent on that going and we're going to get that money from the sharks i look forward to buying one i i have to say that what you're doing is not safe i have to say this because i believe it and i have to say this before

I eat garbage all over every piece of social media that we post this on.

This is not, it's not safe. I get you that you're in a place where there aren't that many humans around and you have high visibility and you're on cruise control.
But I'll say this,

in a 2011 Subaru outback, was it?

Without a dedicated dip cup holder, extra not safe.

So what I'm saying to you, Nicole, is I respect your Bismarckian culture,

and I understand that you have more visibility and there are straight roads.

And

if you had a car that had, that was looking out for you

while you were eating a salad,

then I might say it's none of my business. But that's all I would say.
And I wouldn't say it to you on a podcast either. And I'm not saying it now.

Don't drive and be distracted.

This is the official policy of the Judge Shen Hajjan podcast, and I mean it.

But that is not entirely the issue here because even Scott himself, who has been so vanilla sauced into his Stockholm syndrome that he doesn't feel that he's at any risk, is like, the real issue here is I don't like it when Nicole eats a food and gets it on her, on her clothes, and then she's in a bad mood for 20 minutes.

So I'm going to order you to wear a poncho if you're going to eat in the car.

I mean,

I don't know what else to do. It's not safe for you to be eating in the car,

but one thing that might dissuade you from doing it is having to wear a salad smock of shame.

You can get one, I'm sure, at any smock dispensary in Bismarck.

Or you can get one of your dad's old dress shirts and wear it backwards.

And I will encourage Scott to not Raz

so long as, well, I think this will solve the Razzing. And I hope it also solves the eating while driving.

And then I also want to add one more thing to the sentence, which is that you drive your vehicle to Acadia National Park

and let us know so we can see you in the parking lot.

And we can mark off that license plate. We'll park and eat a salad while we wait.
Yeah, you park and eat a salad. What a wonderful idea.
Park,

have a little salad, and be on your way. Another great idea.
Park at a truck stop and get some chicken-fried steak.

These are the great things to do on a road trip. Park

and look at the natural beauty of the interstate.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Drive.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.
Nicole, how are you feeling about this judgment?

I think it's fair. I maybe should have seen it coming that it wasn't going to go in my favor, but I think I'll be shamed out of, I don't think I want to wear a smock.

So I think I'll have to eat standing still on the side of the road somehow. I mean, you could look at this as an opportunity to wear a smock.

That's true. Scott, how are you feeling?

You know, I think it's a fair ruling and the idea of, you know, taking a break to park and have a meal, that seems like safer, but also probably better for, you know, digestion and mental health and everything.

So, and a road trip to Arcadia sounds fun too. Nicole Scott, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. In a moment, we'll have swift justice.
First, our thanks to Redditor Jackal Kaboom for naming this week's episode Car Edible Witness.

I love it when a Redditor just uses their regular name. You know what I mean? Yeah, just use your name.
Like, I'm on Reddit. I'm John Hodgman.
I don't have anything.

And, you know, Jackal Kaboom, you got a name like that. Just use it.
Don't come up with a handle. It's cool.
Chat about the show on Reddit at maximumfund.reddit.com.

That's where we ask for our title suggestions as well. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on the webpage for this episode of the program at maximumfun.org, as well as on Instagram.

We are at judgejohn Hodgman there. John Hodgman created by

Judge John Hodgman.

John Hodgman created by Mr. and Mrs.
Hodgman.

True. Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.
This episode was engineered by Dave Thompson at Prairie Public in Bismarck, North Dakota, edited by A.J. McKeon.

Marie Barty Salinas runs our social media. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.
Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment.

StarzGo on the maximum fun subreddit says, another classic example of someone, just use your regular name. If your name is StarzGo.
Yeah, that's Starly Kind's cousin. Yeah.

If my, that's how being a cousin works. If my family eats ice cream between December and March, my ex-husband says we're eating it out of season.
Is ice cream season a thing?

So let me let me understand this. StarzGo

will sometimes eat ice cream between December and March.

And StarzGo's ex-husband says that StarsGo is eating it out of season. That's correct.
The ex-husband says this. Ex-husband says that.
Right. Okay, here's my verdict.

StarzGo, I'm glad you're divorced. Bingo.
You don't need this person in your life. Stars go, bingo.

Eat ice cream when you want to. Don't eat it in the car, though.
Eat it in the car only if it's parked. Get some ice cream and eat it in the car when you're parked.

We've talked a lot about food to eat in the car, but there are probably more disputes about car trips and road trips that we haven't heard yet.

I've been getting some of your wonderful disputes about group travel,

like when you go on a family vacation or whatever. That's also a road trip situation a lot of the time.

If you and another person are trapped in a car for hours, you know you're going to have a squabble. So let's get your road trip cases up in here.

What member of your touring band hogs control of the stereo system? What car game is the worst? Why does your weird dad insist on playing it?

Do you want to take the scenic route, even though your partner prefers the quickest route? Send your car trip disputes to me, Judge John Hodgman. Send them at maximumfund.org slash jjho.

Maximumfund.org slash jjho. There's a form you fill out.
It couldn't be easier. And it doesn't just have to be road trip disputes, right, Jesse? No, any kind of dispute.

This whole show runs on your disputes. So put some fuel in our tank at maximumfund.org slash jjho.
And we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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