Dolly Pardon

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Dolly Pardon.

Leanne brings the case against her daughter, Abby.

Abby has a collection of dolls in their living room on top of their piano.

Leanne thinks the dolls are too creepy.

She wants Abby to move the dolls to her room.

Abby says she should be allowed to decorate the piano however she wants because she's the only one who plays it.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

My name is Judgy Johnny and you better be nice to me.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne swear them in.

Leanne, Abby, please rise.

Wow, that was upsetting.

Leanne and Abby, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever.

I do.

Oh, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he insists on calling them action figures?

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

My name is Judgy John.

No, don't do it again.

And I'm beginning to judge you.

No.

Stop.

I hate it.

Leanne and Abby, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom just then when I said those words?

Do you want me to say them again?

No!

I'm sorry.

Leanne or Abby, would you like me to say them again?

It might help.

Please, no.

Please, God, no.

Fair enough.

Leanne, why don't we start with you?

Do you recognize the quote?

I do not recognize it, but the only thing I can think of is possibly from the 2016 movie The Boy.

The Boy.

That's a movie about a haunted doll, is it not?

I believe so.

Yes.

That's one of many, many films and stories about scary haunted dolls.

That's a good guess, and I'm putting it in the guess book.

Abby,

what do you and your haunted dolls guess?

I'm going to guess it is from a

Adam Sandler movie that is

since

not very popular, like Happy Gilmore.

Okay.

A haunted doll.

I'm surprised, honestly, that Adam Sandler has not done a haunted doll movie.

Honestly, that Adam Sandler as a haunted doll, that would be pretty good.

Would it be one of the Adam Sandler productions or would it be one of the good movies that he works on as an actor?

I think it would have to be one of the productions where he puts all of his friends in it.

Who are his friends?

David Spade, Chris Rock,

and the little feller.

That guy, the first celebrity I ever saw in New York City when I moved here, was walking down the street.

Yeah, that's who it was.

Rob Schneider saw him in Madison Square Park, whistling.

First celebrity sighting in New York.

Did that bode well?

I don't know.

He was preparing for his big heel turn.

Strange omen.

Yeah, they all play haunted dolls.

I think that's really good.

That's a good, that's good IP that we generated.

Anyway, all guesses are wrong.

There are probably some people in the audience who are listening right now who are

my age who are like, well, why couldn't you guess that that was Talkie Tina from the famous Twilight Zone episode Living Doll?

One of the top haunted doll stories.

A story about

a little girl

and her mom come home from a shopping trip.

The mom is remarried to Telly Sivalis, which you would think would be a dream, but in fact, it's a nightmare because this Telly Sivalis in this one acts like a real jerk.

And she has a doll called Talkie Tina, which is based on a very, very popular doll at that time in the 60s called Chatty Kathy.

You pull a little thing and it talks and goes, my name's Talkie Tina and I love you.

But then, when the girl and the wife are out of the house, Talesa Vales, who hates this doll, starts being grumpy around it.

She goes, I'm beginning to hate you.

And then she tortures him psychologically.

And then, spoiler, he falls down the stairs and eats it.

And then the mom finds Taki Tina at the bottom of the stairs.

She goes, My name is Takitina.

You better be nice to me.

It's very scary.

Never saw that, Leanne.

Never watched

the Twilight Zone, Abby?

Neither of you?

I have watched The Twilight Zone,

but Talkie Tina.

I mean, come on.

No, like it.

The funny thing about it is that Talkie Tina was based on the Chatty Kathy doll, which was really, really popular at that time.

Same vibe, except not haunted by evil, I don't think.

And

this is from real Twilight Zone stuff that you couldn't get away with anymore.

To voice Talkie Tina, they hired the same voice actress who had voiced the actual Chatty Kathy doll.

You would not be allowed to do that in today's branding environment.

And that person's name is June Foray.

And June Foray is one of the most accomplished.

She passed away in 2017 at the age of 99.

She was

one of the most foundational and accomplished voice artists.

She did both the Chatty Kathy and the Talkie Tina doll, but she also voiced

Lucifer in Disney Cinderella.

She was Cindy Lou Who in The Grinch Who Stole Christmas.

She was Grammy for many, many years in the Tweety vs.

Sylvester cartoons.

And also Rocky the Flying Squirrel in Bullwinkle and Rocky.

And she was, and she started, essentially, she

created the Annie Awards.

There had never been animation awards.

There had never been awards for voice actors before the Annie Awards.

And she created them.

And she just worked for her whole life long and then...

passed away very peacefully in 20 2017 at the age of 99.

June Foray, Talkie Tina.

You better be nice to her.

So that's your trip down memory lane.

Now let's hear this case.

Who seeks justice before this court?

I do.

And that would be Leanne, yes?

Yes.

Leanne, what is the nature of your dispute?

Abigail has accumulated quite the creepy doll collection, among other creepy things, on the piano in our living room.

And

it is right inside the front door.

So anybody who comes over is immediately greeted by a very creepy sight.

and I would like for you to rule that Abby must move all of the creepy memorabilia into her own room.

Okay, and Leanne, you are Abby's mom.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

And Abby, will you confirm that Leanne is your mother?

That's correct.

How do you respond?

First of all, perfect.

Second of all, how do you respond to these charges?

I would like to say that my dolls bring joy and wonder to the eyes of anybody that sees them.

And I would even go as far as to claim that my mom is trying to quash my silliness and

trying to turn me into something that I'm not.

And my dolls, who are alive, deserve to have the eyes of the public on them at all times.

I will be the judge of the delight that they bring to my eyes.

And I'm going to look at a photograph of your dolls that we are going to share, obviously, on our showpage at maximumfund.org, as well as our Instagram account at judgejohnhodgman.

And

I am looking at them now.

And

okay, well,

Jesse Thorne, can you please finish the show?

Because I'm going to run away in terror now.

That's the real reason I'm here.

People don't know that we record about three times as many episodes as we release because I run away in terror about a third of the time.

The other third of the time, I'm just paralyzed with terror.

I don't even run away.

And Jesse has to take over.

I'm looking at this photograph.

It's spectacular.

Let me just say it's spectacular, Abby.

It has a sort of sick flatness to it that really adds to the.

It's framed perfectly.

The depth of field is terrifying, but it's also spectacular.

What are we looking at, Abby?

If you had to count, how many figurines and dolls are

loaded atop this?

It looks to me like it's a stand-up piano.

Is that correct?

Yes, Your Honor.

I don't have a picture with me, but I would say around 20, if you're counting the disembodied head and leg and arm and the cardboard cutout of Nick Carter in his mid-30s and 40s.

I would count all of those things for sure.

Yes.

Yes.

Everyone needs to stop driving while listening to this, pull over and bring up the show page or the Instagram because

this is a remarkable collection and one that I really appreciate.

And there are also, so there are about, I'm going to describe it this way.

There are about 20 figurines, including the disembodied head, etc.

I would say two-thirds or maybe a little higher percentage are the kind of your classic frilly China doll face creepy doll style

with frilly dresses.

There is a cardboard cutout of Nick Carter in his 30s.

There are a couple of other style of dolls.

There's a kind of almost cupie-style doll.

And then there's one doll, and she isn't wearing a dress.

She's just down to her basic doll structure.

And she's got, she's sitting there with another doll's head in her lap.

And then there's a kind of like an animal of some kind.

Maybe I can close it, close in on that, on that little animal there.

No, it's not there.

But I do have some close-ups on some of the different dolls.

I'm going to mention their names.

Do they all have different personalities, Abby?

Oh, quite.

Absolutely.

The main personalities you want to look out for are Ruth and Delilah.

Uh, yeah, I'm gonna get to them last.

That's called called a tease in podcast land.

I'm gonna mention a couple of names first, and you can tell me a little bit about them.

Does that sound all right to you?

Yes, Your Honor.

All right.

Prudence.

Tell me about Prudence.

Oh, Prudence is the perfect Victorian child, meant to be seen but not heard.

I just quoted the tag that is on the side of the doll.

She is absolutely beautiful, and all she does is sit there.

She's the perfect Victorian child.

You're saying this is the one doll that does not get up in the middle of the night and wander the house?

Probably.

She sits there.

Yeah.

Veronica?

Oh, Veronica is new to the family.

She's a bit spicy, I'd say.

You know, she has some sass to her.

What's the kind of thing that Veronica would say?

Get out of my house.

Okay.

Jesse, back over to you.

That didn't sound like your voice, Abby.

Or was that Leanne trying to make a case for herself?

It was not me.

It was Abigail.

Okay, yeah.

That's

a spicy haunted doll.

Okay.

What about Betty?

There's a close-up of Betty.

Betty has very...

Cool, toussled hair.

Toussiled hair?

I don't know how you say that word.

You know what I'm saying.

Yes, so Betty is very interesting.

She came to me bald and was very insecure about being bald.

The hair that you see is a wig that I made out of my sister's ex-boyfriend and her hair, and I worked very hard on it.

And the back of her head has a rat tail

that is made out of my friend's hair, and she is living happily now with a full head of beautiful, real hair.

And this is a combination of your sister's hair, her boyfriend's hair, and your friend's hair.

Is that right?

Yes, Your Honor.

Looks amazing.

It looks amazing.

This is, everyone's going to be clamoring for the Betty.

This is going to be the haircut of the decade.

Head hair?

Head hair.

Classic head hair.

And now here we go.

Delilah and Ruth.

These two.

We were already talking about them before.

What can you tell me about them?

Delilah and Ruth have a presence that you can only understand if you're there with them.

They do not like to be moved or touched.

They need respect to be left alone.

They absolutely love sitting on the piano and they are best friends.

My mom likes to pull off Delilah's hair and yell, wig, and that makes Delilah very angry.

I have to do a lot of groveling with Delilah and Ruth just not to do anything bad to my mother.

Leanne,

do you take off Delilah's hair and say, wig?

I have in the past.

I have not in quite a while since Abby has stressed to me the distress that that causes the doll and Abigail herself.

What about fear for your own life?

Why would you take that risk?

I didn't really understand the gravity of the situation at the time when I was doing that.

Abby really let me know that it's not okay.

And so I haven't done it since.

Abby, would it be fair?

And

would it offend you if I say these are some creepy dolls?

No, they're absolutely creepy.

All right.

We're on the same page then.

Okay, good.

And what do you think Ruth and Delilah would get up to if they were moved?

Murder.

Okay, fair enough.

Fair enough.

Celianne, why could you not possibly want this collection of creepy dolls on your piano?

I think the picture speaks for itself.

I think it is a wonderful array that Abby can keep in her own space.

I think forcing the entire family to witness the monstrosity is just not something I'm interested in doing any longer.

Let me understand.

You say the entire family.

Now, Abby is your daughter.

She's 20.

Is that correct, Abby?

Yes, Your Honor.

All right.

How many other siblings are there?

Abby has two siblings.

And what age order are we talking?

Ava is 22 and Olivia is 15.

And they all live in the house?

They do, yes.

Are you empowered to speak for them?

Have they sent you as their emissary?

Do they have the same issue with these dolls?

So

I sent in two writings.

Ava

basically wrote in and said that she is terrified to move the dolls.

And Olivia wrote in and stated that

they are on my side and would like them moved.

So one of them is terrified to move them and the other, and so is arguing that they should stay.

Correct.

But is also terrified by them.

Correct.

I see.

And the other, ah,

sorry.

I was looking for those affidavits, and I scrolled down and I realized I missed one of these.

I didn't see Debbie down here at the bottom of the page.

Who's got a

truly Joker-like smile.

Who is Debbie?

Abby?

Debbie is a doll that my mom actually gifted me.

She looks very similar to my boss named Debbie

from when I worked at Savers, who was my favorite boss.

And the reason why I have a lot of these dolls.

And I just think it's interesting that she gifts me one of the creepiest ones and then is like, Abby, you gotta move them, you know?

Yeah, this is not a traditional, like, sort of porcelain-faced China doll.

This is like a big caricature doll with a, with a, like a mold, a molded plastic scene head with a frozen rictus of a smile.

And when you say that Debbie reminds you of your favorite boss at Sabers, is that because you captured her soul and essence and trapped it in Debbie?

Honestly, I haven't seen my boss Debbie since, so I can't answer that with certainty.

But,

you know, she looks like a caricature of my boss.

Thank you for your frankness.

I'll let the mystery be then.

So Olivia and Ava both have their own issues with this.

How long long has the display of dolls been there?

Well,

we moved into the house in 2019, and

it began around that time when Abigail started working at Savers.

Like she said, it's a thrift store

and it started with one and then it just kind of accumulated from there.

So it's been a few years.

Are these dolls that you mostly got from work at the thrift store, Abby?

Where are you picking them up?

Yes, sir.

90% of them are from savers, but once I bought one, my co-workers started to

gift them to me.

So I didn't even buy most of them.

I started to become known around the

workplace for loving the dolls, and I would receive them as gifts.

And I just think it's disingenuous to move them.

Okay.

And Leanne, when did the collection start getting

out of hand, in your opinion?

I feel like once she began to make a wig for the dolls, once she began to bring home body parts like legs and head, and also

body parts.

I mean, there are body parts in the form of the human hair that she used to make the wig.

But when you're saying legs and stuff, you're talking about doll legs.

I am talking about doll legs, as far as I know.

Made from human body parts.

You'd have to ask Abby.

Sure.

Such as her sister's ex-boyfriends.

Yes.

The one that no longer lives in the home.

Yeah.

I think between the one that has the doll hair,

Debbie, and the clown that moves, it's kind of a musical one.

And so sometimes when you open and close the front door, you'll hear just a creepy music for a minute and the clown will be moving.

Those ones are my least favorite.

Why is the clown

moving on its own when the door opens?

Because he's warning you.

Okay.

What is the warning?

Don't come in?

I'm not quite sure.

You just have to listen to your heart, Your Honor.

And Leanne, if you had to guess, aside from obviously the doll warning us, is there a mechanical element to the musical clown that causes it to, that triggers it to play when the door opens?

Um, I'm not sure.

I think, yeah, it perhaps is not completely unwound and then

it, uh, the movement triggers it.

I'm not really sure.

It's not just when the door opens and closes, Your Honor.

Oh, when else does it?

When you need to hear it.

It plays when I need to hear it?

Yeah.

Does it do it when you're playing the piano?

It does do it when I'm playing the piano.

Uh-huh.

It does it sometimes when I'm watching TV late at night.

Where Where is the clown in this photo?

On the far right.

The one closest to the door.

A gray.

No, he's green.

Oh, green.

He's like a nightmarish harlequin?

Yes.

Oh, okay, I see now.

I got it now.

Does he have a name?

No, I only name the ones that come to me.

Got it.

So he's withholding his name currently.

Yes, Your Honor.

All right.

And I noticed that there are a couple of decorated crucifixes hung above the dolls.

Maybe I should have asked about those.

Yes, those are my crucifixes.

I really love crosses, and my favorite movie is the 2018 movie The Nun.

And I decorated them both in honor of that movie.

Now, I've not seen The Nun, but I believe it's part of the Conjuring universe.

Yes, sir.

They're a series of interconnected films that started with the movie The Conjuring, directed by David Wan, following the exploits of paranormal investigators, Ed and Lorraine Warren, real-life paranormal investigators, who until recently had in their possession in a museum in their home in Connecticut what they believed to be a haunted doll called Annabelle, who was the inspiration for the Annabelle movies, which are part of the Conjuring Universe.

Is that correct?

Just correct, Your Honor.

And were you aware that that museum is closed now?

I am aware of that.

Were you one of the people who tried to sneak into that museum after it was closed?

No, but I've dreamt about it.

All right.

Everything's falling perfectly into place.

Judge Hodgman, just for your information, because I know you're an atheist, most people who say, I love crosses, it's because of their association with

a particular horror film.

Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Let me ask you this, Abby.

Are you familiar with the haunted doll Robert in Key West, Florida?

No.

Okay.

I'm going to share this one with you.

You're going to like this.

One of the original top haunted dolls that was an inspiration for many a haunted doll story is Robert, who was

an old German Stife doll, a rare Stife doll in the sense that he was in the shape of a human boy as opposed to a bear or another animal.

And he belonged to a painter in Key West named Robert Eugene Otto, and he's still on display there.

And I believe anyone who sees him has

negative things happen to them afterwards.

Only when you see them in person.

I'm going to send this over to you, Jesse and Valerie, the picture of Robert.

It's a very creepy, it's a very creepy doll holding a very creepy doll.

Robert is holding his own little stuffed little

dog doll, and they're both very scary to me.

Honestly, I find him charming.

You find him charming?

He's got a nice sailor's outfit on.

I'd have Robert in my house.

No sweat.

In any case,

the creepy doll motif has a long history both in

film and television and obviously in your living room, Leanne and Abby.

Abby, these dolls used to be in your room.

Is that correct?

They got moved out when this house guest came?

No, I started collecting them when she already lived there.

Got it.

So they have never been in my room.

This is their home then.

They've never been displaced before.

That is so right.

This is their home.

And they're there on the piano.

You play the piano?

I do.

I am a musician, and I

love to play the piano, and I love to play a lot of other instruments.

And my mom absolutely loves to hear me play.

Leanne,

how do you respond to that accusation?

Do you love to hear Abby Abby play?

Yes, I do very much so.

She's a very great musician.

What kind of songs do you play?

Phil Collins songs?

Um, oc I mean, o occasionally.

I I like to make covers of songs that I like.

Um, just play anything.

How often do you play the piano?

Um, every single day.

And where did the piano come from?

The one that's in the living room uh used to be my grandpa's and was at his house until it got moved to ours.

Okay.

Does it have a uh personality?

Does your grandpa live in the piano?

No, he doesn't.

He lives in Orem, I think.

But the piano's name is Diego.

Oh, okay.

What is Diego's personality?

He's just a piano, John.

Sorry.

You're right.

Stupid of me to ask.

Oh, John, you blew that one.

I know.

I don't know what I was saying.

What was I even saying?

John, do you need me to come in and host the rest of the show?

Yeah, you're right.

I'm not running away in horror.

I'm slouching away in shame.

What's your favorite song to play and sing?

I am really into playing the piano and harmonica at the same time.

I really like to play,

I'm learning the promised land by Bruce Springsteen right now.

Cool.

And I like to

learn songs that my family likes.

Like my mom really loves the band Blake Street Dive.

And so I do covers of that.

And I do K-pop songs and such.

You ever cover the song Tubular Bells?

No.

Tubular Bells is a song by Mike Oldfield that was used in the

soundtrack for The Exorcist.

Your dolls might like it.

It's very creepy.

I'll look into it.

Yeah.

Tubular Bells.

Leanne,

what did you do to deserve a child like this?

Well, I'm lucky enough to have Abby as a child.

She's super creative and fun, and I love it.

And

I just want to go back and say, I in no way want to quash her silliness.

We are very close.

We're best friends.

We hang out all the time.

I love being silly with her.

I just can't handle the creepy any longer.

Do you, do they scare you?

Slightly, but I have gotten really good at avoiding it.

You know how when you have something in your own house, sometimes you don't really notice it.

I don't really notice it unless I am possibly having company come over.

I would like to say also,

I

kind of run the opposite of whatever a tight ship is in our house, right?

I let my kids have their individuality and I encourage it and I think it's great.

And I've always said that once we have our own home, you can decorate your room however you like it.

I have not made her take down her Nicholas Cage pillow that is facing out in the window to the street so anyone walking by can see a giant Nicolas Cage pillow.

Is it a full step?

Is it head only or a full body pillow?

It is head only.

Oh, okay.

Where's the body?

Yeah.

What did you do with the body, Abby?

What'd you do with Nicholas Cage's body?

I'll never tell.

Okay.

Made it into doll parts.

Made it into doll parts.

Yeah, that's quite a sacrifice, I would say.

An outward-facing Nicholas Cage head in the window, I would say, for sure, Leanne.

What else?

What else have you enabled of all your kids?

I mean, in general, I just, I allow them to be themselves.

I think it's great that they're individuals.

It's just encroaching on my own mental sanity at this point.

Oh, really?

A bunch of creepy dolls on top of a piano the moment you walk in?

Abby, do you intend to be getting more dolls and add more dolls to the pile of dolls?

Well.

Oh, to put it short, yes.

What rate, Abby, would you say these dolls are going to be coming into this house?

One a week, one a month, one a what?

Well, ever since I stopped working at Savers, they've been coming in a lot slower, probably once every four months.

Right.

And you feel the dolls don't want to live in your room?

No, they don't.

I have a family of fake skeletons that live in my room where the dolls would go, and they are also alive, and they would not get along with my dolls, especially not Ruth or Delilah.

This is a whole new, whole new group.

It's now the ballad of rats and dolls and skulls.

Yes, sir.

How large are the skeletons?

Full-size skeletons?

No, they're the size of toddlers.

Manny and Giselle, they're married.

That's okay.

Now, Jesse, you got to take over again.

That just chilled me to the chilled.

My heart is ice now.

I can't bump blood because of the ice in my heart.

Where are you putting these skeletons?

They're on the dresser that is the only place that otherwise the dolls would go.

I procured all of them except for my skeleton Manny while I was in

an orphanage in Latvia.

While I was in inpatient care for my mental health, they just kept coming to me.

And now I have a beautiful family.

Manny and Giselle, their son Stanley Derek, their doctor Doc,

their cousin Aldo, and their chef Gino, and their

scarecrow friend lasagna.

Lasagna or lasagna?

Lasagna.

Oh, okay, got it.

Scarecrow friend lasagna.

And the scarecrow is a skeleton as well?

No.

Okay.

He is a scarecrow head.

With the body of Nicholas Cage?

Sorry, go ahead.

Scarecrow head with what?

Taped to a stick.

Oh, right.

Now I understand this affidavit from your sister, Ava, because I was looking at this a minute ago and I couldn't quite parse what was going on here.

Because I hadn't heard about this family of skeletons.

Ava wrote in to say, I didn't want to choose a side when it came to this, this, but if I'm being honest, the dolls scare me.

I'm genuinely worried that if we displace them or try to relocate them, there will be trouble.

I'm worried the whole energy of the house will shift since they're so temperamental.

If moved, the place where the dolls would end up is near some skeletons they have beef with.

That was a sentence I didn't understand until just now.

Now I understand it very well.

Ava goes on, now I'm not saying the skeletons are alive as well, but making the dolls angry is not something I want to deal with ever.

Abigail has built up the doll's powers so much that in my mind they'll do something super spooky of move to her room.

Even guests know not to move with the dolls when they come over.

My friend Jeff once said that he doesn't look the dancing one in the eyes because he's scared she'll come to life and attack him like an angry goose.

Overall, I don't really want to mess with the powers that may or may not be on the off chance that something really will happen.

That's Ava.

It's a tie in this household, Leanne, right?

Because Olivia and you want those dolls out of of there, and Ava and Abby obviously want the dolls to stay.

And Ava is terrified.

That's correct.

I feel like I should get two votes, though, since it's my home.

Oh, right.

You're the adult.

But they're all adults.

Except for Olivia.

Except for Olivia.

There are three adults living there.

And it sounds to me, Abby, like

you plan to be living there for a while still.

It's not like you're planning to move out anytime soon, right?

Oh, no.

I love living with my family.

Yeah.

Sounds terrific.

Your family and your dolls and your rats and your skeletons.

They're all part of the family, sincerely.

Sorry, may I also add that I think the dolls are just an example of a bigger issue,

which is that my mom doesn't know how to let go and have a little fun sometimes.

Whoa,

wow.

Holy cow.

Objection, Your Honor?

I'm super fun.

Sustained.

What is your response to that?

Do you not know how to let go and have fun sometimes, Leanne?

I mean, there are times when fun is not appropriate, but I feel like I'm pretty fun, especially with Abby.

I think we have a lot of fun.

Specificity is a solo narrative.

Describe one fun thing you have ever done with your child.

I'm not good under pressure.

We laugh and sing songs all the time.

We're

pretty silly.

Yeah, but Abby is saying that's not true.

Abby, can you give me some evidence of your mom not being able to cut loose and have fun?

Because I think there's a distinction from being freaked out by dolls and not being able to have fun.

Yes, so me and my mom spend a very large amount of time together.

She can be fun occasionally, whenever we're with each other, but she takes on the responsibilities of her job very intensely.

And for some reason, it always seems to be end of quarter at her job.

And she's always running around saying, it's end of quarter.

I can't do this right now.

And, you know,

I just think that

she needs to worry less about end of quarter and worry more about

shaking that rump, you know?

Worry less about end of quarter.

I don't know.

I'm going to write that down.

I'm going to needle point that on a piece of quilting fabric.

Absolutely.

Worry less about end of quarter.

Worry more and think more about shaking that rump, Leanne.

Can't be end of quarter all the time.

I'm going to laser etch that into a worn block of wood and sell it to Ross HomeGoods.

I'm going to paint it on a piece of driftwood and hang it in my cottage.

I'm going to license that to our friend Liz Gilbert.

See what she gets for an advance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's already.

It's already hit.

I just got a notification.

It just hit the best seller list.

Number one.

We'll take half, Liz.

She did the work of writing the book.

She did the work of writing the book, of course.

Well, you know, we got to give royalties to Abby, obviously.

No.

Whoa, Jesse Thorne.

Wow.

No, I must insist.

She signed the contract before she came on.

We own this.

No, no, we don't.

I'm not afraid to sue.

Leanna can't be ended quarter all the time, but you have a job.

I do have a job, and

I am a single mother of three children, two adult children that I'm trying to maintain the household for.

Obviously, there are times when I am needing to be serious and an adult.

And so I believe that's Abby's reaction to me not always being able to chill out and hang out.

There are times when it's just not possible.

Yeah,

you have a job, and that job is to be whatever you are professionally and also to be a mom.

Right.

Do Olivia or Ava also have collections that are spilling out into the house?

No, they do not.

Do they feel edged out in any way by Abby's collections and the dolls?

Do they feel like, I wish I had some space on that piano to put my, I don't know, what's the scariest thing you can think of?

My jar of mummified voles?

Well,

I mean,

in addition to the dolls,

Abby also has her cousin's teeth in a container

on the piano.

On the piano?

That's pretty creepy.

No, they're in my room.

It's in my DNA bucket.

Would you explain what a DNA bucket is, please?

Of course, Your Honor.

Thank you.

My DNA bucket is a collection of my family and friends' DNA, such as hair, fingernail clippings, a sock that was worn for a long time and got sweaty and then was never washed in case I need to make voodoo dolls,

make a wig,

sell some teeth online.

Sure.

Wait, this is a money-making scheme?

You never know.

I don't know why you're raising your eyebrows.

You're just about to steal Abby's IP and sell it to Liz Gilbert.

I mean, my plan was a good plan.

This isn't about my plan.

Everyone knows it was a good plan.

So, Leanne, you've heard that these dolls have beef with these skeletons.

Is there any other place where the dolls can go that wouldn't disrupt the delicate balance of rats, skeletons, and dolls and feelings?

Not that I can think of.

I think they just belong in.

If she wants to make her room a creepy environment, I'm all for that.

The crosses can also go in her room.

I I would like you to rule that as well.

I also gasped at a

theme that I want for my living room.

What theme do you want for your living room?

I haven't even really had a chance to really decide that.

We haven't decorated because right after we moved in, it was COVID and there was a leak in the roof.

And so it's been quite challenging.

And then all of a sudden, I look over and we have a giant doll collection along with Nick Carter.

Yeah, the Nick Carter thing.

Can you explain that, Abby?

I meant to.

I feel like every time I look at this image, there's something else I want to ask about.

I have a deep, deep love for the Backstreet Boys, Your Honor.

Nick Carter is my favorite member of the Backstreet Boys, and

I received that cardboard cutout from my mom,

who for some reason likes to give me things and then pretend like she didn't give them to me.

So there he is.

He's just old.

and, um,

well, he's just in his mid-30s.

Come on, he's not old.

Boy, oh boy, put me in my grave.

Oh, he's 43, actually.

That photo is from him in his mid-30s.

But he's 43.

He's a grown-up.

This is a hard one, I gotta say.

Abby,

let's leave the skeletons out of this for a second.

Let's just say that there happened to be a special shelf in your room far away from the skeletons.

A good doll shelf.

You know what I mean?

A good, you know what I mean by a good creepy doll shelf?

Yeah, a good hardy shelf.

A good hardy shelf.

Exactly.

Thank you, Abby.

And it just happened to be there, and it wasn't going to be encroaching on any skeleton turf.

If you were to move those dolls in there, I know how the dolls would feel, vengeful.

How would you feel?

You're making me tear up right now.

Um,

uh, I would be devastated.

The dolls just,

along with being alive, bring me so much joy being able to play the piano while looking at them.

I think that my mom needs to take into account that sometimes the driving force for me to continue practicing my music is that I get to bring joy to the dolls and I get to look at the dolls when I'm playing in the living room.

And

just

logistically speaking, the the piano can't fit into your room, or can it?

I have my own keyboard that is in my room but um

but it doesn't have any creepy dolls on it to look at it doesn't and it's not big enough for all of the dolls and the piano um in the living room is is the one that i really love to play

you consider the creepy dolls to be like liberace's candelabra yes or like gandalf's wand that was a nice abby show unless the dolls are on the piano exactly aretha franklin's purse that was a nice cultural reference save there, Abby, because obviously, Jesse, they don't know who, no one knows who Liberace is anymore.

Do you know why Aretha Franklin brought her purse on stage with her and put it on the piano for every show?

No, why?

Because she got paid in advance in cash for every show.

She put it in the purse and brought it on stage with her.

There we go.

You know what?

I respect that, Jesse.

I respect that.

Possible anecdote for one of your books, Liz.

Abby.

We get half.

What is it again?

Think less about end of quarter, think more about shaking your rump?

Yes, sir.

It was shaken that rump.

Shaken that rump.

Okay, yeah.

Sorry, Valerie.

But do you hear your, do you hear your mom's concern that

it doesn't fit in with her vision for the living room?

How do you respond to that, Abby?

My mom is very constantly embarrassed of the way that our front yard and our house looks at all times.

And I honestly don't think she has any plans to decorate anytime soon.

She just is kind of panicking

running around about how ugly our house is, but doesn't really do anything about it.

Well, so she's...

She's got a job and she's taking care of at least one minor child.

There's a lot of responsibilities that your mom has, too.

Wouldn't you agree, Leanne?

I would agree.

And Leanne, what's wrong with your front yard now?

So, since we've moved in, it's been one issue after another.

We had to get our roof replaced right after we move in.

We moved in, and it resulted in plenty of leaks.

There was no sprinklers, and the hose connection was broken, so I wasn't able to water our lawn.

So, our

lawn has died, and a big storm came and blew over the big tree that we had in our yard.

So I am planning on doing something with it.

I just haven't figured out how to do it.

I'm going to do like this house.

I never really thought about it, but now

I'm just trying to draw a connection here that maybe there's something, things are just going wrong in this house over and over again.

It's possible.

I don't want to throw more gasoline into the fire, but I do have my own ghost named Claire.

You do have your own what now?

My own ghost.

His name is Clint.

And is Clint a helpful house genie

or a poltergeist?

Oh, he's not evil at all.

We went to his psychic.

He is real.

I am going to tell this really quickly.

I accidentally summoned him on a trip to California.

He died when he was 17 years old, 40 years ago.

He's from Germany, but he died on a trip to California.

He used to live with me in the basement that I slept in, our last house, and now has moved into this new house and is sometimes around, sometimes not.

But the psychic said that he is not evil, he is neutral, and that if I keep him around, he may bring me money.

What's his relationship to this frog down here?

And then Nick Carter from the Backstreet Boys.

Are they friends?

Do they hang out?

Frenemies?

No, Clint doesn't like to leave my room.

So

he just hangs out with, you know, the rats, the skeletons, etc.

But this is so you're saying that if the house is haunted at all, it's not

an evil haunting.

No, not at all.

I got you.

He's not poking holes in the roof, Clint.

No.

Okay.

He loves home decoration as much as the next guy.

So this is a relatively new home for you.

Obviously, things, Leanne, got put on pause because of lockdown and the early early years of the pandemic.

Right.

What does this home represent to you?

Well, it's my first home.

I'm a new homeowner.

So

I think my kids were adults by the time I was able to afford my own home.

But it was a pretty big deal because we previously rented, and I was always really nervous about, you know, putting holes in the walls or decorating in a certain way.

So I was pretty excited to allow my kids to be able to express themselves in their own room, in their own way.

So

I noticed you said in their own room very pointedly.

Yes.

And it's true, I have not yet

decorated or figured out a true aesthetic for the home yet.

But, you know, I work a lot.

I do work a lot.

And there's a lot of things going on with the house.

And so that's next on my list.

Do you worry about encroachment?

That is to say

that.

Abby or other members of your household are going to end up decorating this house before you have a a chance to?

No,

Abby's sibling Olivia and I actually have some plans in the works kind of of how to decorate.

Olivia is taking an interior design class.

And so they're helping me come up with some ideas.

And Olivia, they're the one who's on your side about getting rid of these dolls.

Correct.

And Olivia says, In their affidavit, when my mother says she is embarrassed to have people come over and see this collection of scary dolls, I understand.

I feel her shame about these dolls.

Is that true?

Do you feel shame about these dolls?

You know, to be honest, I haven't had a whole lot of people, my friends over since the pandemic and stuff.

So

I would say that

I had a co-worker that came over to drop something off.

I was down in the basement, so I didn't actually

let him in, but Olivia answered the door and kind of just- Were you in the basement or the third sub-basement?

I was in the basement in my home office.

And then a door opened, and then you went into that basement too?

Did you see the movie Barbarian?

I did not.

No.

That was a scary movie.

Okay, you have a home office in the basement.

Someone came by to drop something off.

And I was quite relieved that I wasn't up there and I didn't have to

invite him in and explain the doll collection.

But he did mention the pillow, the Nicolas Cage pillow.

And then every once in a while, he'll text me and ask me how Nicholas Cage is doing.

And

I would say would say that most people, you know, they really want to decorate their home how they want to.

And most people wouldn't allow a Nicholas Cage pillow to be the first thing that you saw as you came up to the front door.

You could have had a whole episode about that Nicolas Cage pillow, but you're saying that you don't have a problem with that.

Well, I wouldn't say I don't have a problem with it, but it fits within the scope of what I've agreed to allow my kids to do, which is decorate their room however they want.

Oh, so whose room faces the street?

It's not in the

living room window.

It is in Abigail's bedroom window, but it is right by the front door, so you can't miss it.

So anyone walking by our house sees the Nicholas cage pillow.

And to me, it seems like it would look absurd if I was walking by.

And it's probably people in the neighborhood are talking about it, but I've allowed them to decorate their room.

And so I, even though I ask her politely, please take it down, I respect that she does not want to take it down.

But this piano, if people are not clear, is right inside the main living room, inside, right?

It's the first thing you see when you open the front door.

Correct.

And the first thing you hear is that creepy clown music.

Sometimes, yes.

Well, you hear that Abby says she would be devastated if I were to order those dolls moved.

How does that make you feel?

It's not my intent to devastate Abigail.

It's not my intent to quash any of her joy or silliness.

I absolutely love her silliness and her joy, but I do feel like

her

stated devastation is one part of the reason why I haven't forced her to move the dolls, but rather brought her on here so that she can get away.

Okay, so the dolls will be mad at me.

So the dolls, all right, I got you.

So Abby will be devastated and it'll be my fault.

And then the dolls are going to come get me.

And then Clink's not going to be so neutral either, I have a feeling.

Once that gavel goes down, trying to get out of this scot-free.

That is true.

You're calling me in like Max Von Cedo and the Exorcist.

Fix this problem for me.

I would say probably that is correct.

Tubular bells, Jesse Thorne.

Tubular bells.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Leanne, how are you feeling about your chances here?

I don't know.

I'm on the fence.

I think

Bolt's fence might fall down.

Like a rational adult, but also he seems a little bit scared of the dolls.

So I don't know.

It could go either way.

Abby, how do you feel?

I feel like the right decision is going to be made.

I feel like John Hodgman has realized that my mom has brought him in so that he has to take the brunt of the evil from the dolls, and that is very selfish of her.

I feel like I am extremely adorable and likable, and no one would want to ever hurt my feelings.

And I am a big fan of yours.

Thank you.

Jesse.

No, I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings.

It's not the kind of thing I'm into.

Maybe John Hodgman wants to hurt people's feelings.

Maybe that's his thing.

Not me.

I'm a nice guy.

Nice to everybody.

Leanne, if you could like put one thing on top of the piano, what would it be?

A nice shawl?

A candelabra liberati style?

A doily?

No.

A person full of money.

I don't know.

I would probably get a worse full of money.

Yes.

That would be great.

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about this when we come back in just a second.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.

We serve it up every monday for you if you're listening and if not we just leave it out back and goes rotten so check it out on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts

all right we're over 70 episodes into our show let's learn everything so let's do a quick progress check have we learned about quantum physics yes episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else, too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, what have you got going on right now?

Well, you know, nothing.

It's not that I have nothing going on, but it would be a violation of the work stoppage order that I am honoring as a member of the Writers Guild of America East to promote struck productions.

Therefore,

there are things that I have worked on.

that I've mentioned before on this podcast that I am not going to cross a picket line to speak about right now because the Writers' Guild of America, chapters East and West, as you may have heard, as of this recording, are on strike.

They've been fighting for weeks before the expiration of their contract, longer than weeks, to try to secure

a system of compensation, particularly in the streaming era, that would provide writers

with more stable and predictable and better compensated work in a very, very highly profitable industry.

And the associated movie and television producers would rather that contract expire than to make concessions such as prohibiting the use of AI

on

union jobs.

So that is to say,

the WGA went to the producers and said, and the studios and said, if it's a union contract job, we don't want you to use chatbots to create storylines.

We don't want you to use chatbots to

replace us.

We don't want you to take our work and feed it into language learning models so that later on they can get better and then replace us.

And the studios said,

no, we want to do that.

To be fair, John, they said they would be willing to have an annual meeting on the subject.

Yeah, that's right.

Their counter was, let's have an annual meeting on the state of emerging technology.

Not sufficient.

And so, as of the 2nd of May, writers have been on strike, including me.

I am a member of the WGA and have been for many years, and I'm a proud member of a union that is willing to go to the mats for its membership.

You know, a lot of people have ideas that people in the WGA are all high-powered, highly paid,

do-nothing script doctors who just rake it in and eat a lot of craft services.

And the truth is that the membership is really, really increasingly diverse, and most of the membership does not make a lot of money.

And all of the membership contributes an imaginable amount of

value

by making things up out of nothing for people to act and film and put on television.

So it's really, really important.

I believe in the WGA when they say that this is an existential crisis for writers.

I believe in strong unions.

I think every industry should have one.

It's hard to be on strike and it's hard for everyone.

I hope it doesn't last too long, but I hope that everyone is aware of why it's happening.

And if you don't know why or don't understand or have more questions, this sounds like self-promotion, but it's the easiest thing for me to say is go to my link in bio, as they say, my link tree, link tr.ee slash hodgman.

Go to my Instagram account, it's in my bio or whatever.

And I link to all of the information about the WGA strike there, and you can learn about it and spread the word.

I mean, let people know as the strike goes on, if it goes on longer, if it's, I hope it's resolved by the time I say this, but if it goes on longer, people people will want to know what's happening.

And so I just want to make you aware of what's going on.

And I'd add that if you want to support artists who are affected by this strike, you can go to entertainmentcommunity.org and support the Entertainment Community Fund,

who are supporting not just writers, but also other people whose work is affected by this strike, who are a significant number of people across the entertainment industry who are standing in solidarity to support the writers and their guild.

So go to entertainmentcommunity.org and you can choose under gift designation to support film and television.

Yeah, it's a great organization.

Thank you, Jesse, for letting them know.

Anything you got going on you want to talk about?

Well, there is no strike of

public radio hosts who own their show anyway.

I'm glad to hear it.

Bullseye marches on, as does Judge John Hodgman.

I'm very grateful to say because our show is associated with a network that is good.

We've got some stuff recorded long before the strike, including a great interview with the amazing Stanley Tucci

and coming up next week, something really special with Lonnie Listensmith, one of the great jazz keywordists of all time, and just the most delightful and charming man ever.

Oh, and Mary Steen Burgen, who's now my best friend.

Yes.

We're getting married.

Sorry, Ted Danson.

And my wife, who I love.

Oh, my goodness.

This is a real plot twist in the Judge John Hodgman bored-to-death universe.

Getting married to Mary Steen Burgen.

Wow.

Okay.

She's the greatest lady ever.

That's one of your weddings I will attend.

We'll be back in just a second, Judge John Hodgman.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

There are a lot of ways to come at this case.

On the one hand, this is an issue of shared space.

You know, whether it's

romantic partners, roommates, parents, children.

You know, you're always going to have conflict over shared space.

Some people, as we've discussed in the podcast before,

have different senses of what is tidy and what is clean.

And so, for example,

if you are married to me, you might not see how pairs of shoes all over the place makes me feel like I'm going to trip all the time.

You might not see those shoes at all.

Similarly, you know, you get used to seeing things in in a home.

People get used to putting their things down in certain places.

It might not be where you would want them to be, but you're sharing the house with these people, and that ends up happening.

I mean, we're going into it, and this also has an empty nest element to it.

That is to say, my family is about to go into an empty nest stage where, for a period of time, at least, both of our adult children will be out of the home.

And there is this sense of how much do we reclaim it?

How much do we,

how much do we,

how much do we reclaim?

Hang on a second.

What am I even talking about?

Leave all this in.

The dolls are staying because I'm scared.

That's what's happening.

Trying to wrap all this stuff up in some kind of thing.

The dolls are scary.

I don't want to move them.

I don't want to be the person to move them.

I don't want this job, Leanne.

No.

Thank you so much, Judge John Hodgeman.

Well, hang on,

of course.

Abby, of course.

I'm not your exorcist, right?

Because, first of all, I'm scared of the dolls.

Second of all,

in the exorcist, Reagan, the girl in the exorcist, was inhabited by Satan.

And Abby's just likable.

There's no comparison here.

If your daughter were inhabited by Satan, then I would be like, well, I'm not the one to do it because I'm not Max Von Cito, but maybe get an exorcist in.

But this is a person expressing joy.

You know,

look, you know, as well as Ava and Olivia know that Abby is unquashable.

No one's going to quash Abby's silliness.

It's not possible.

And Abby is singular and how did you put it, Abby?

Adorable.

Adorable and adorable.

Thank you.

Now, I have a lot of sympathy for you, Leanne.

This is a new home.

This is a fresh start.

This is

a fresh start that was delayed due to pandemic reasons, due to new roof reasons, due to a series of

weirdly catastrophic events that may or may not be a curse.

One of those dolls is probably responsible for it.

One of them, but I can't say which one.

I'm not a doll whisperer, right, Jesse?

Are you?

No, sir.

Right.

I understand your frustration because you are an adult.

You have raised two children to quote-unquote legal adulthood, and one more is coming right behind.

You've done incredible work.

And you're obviously a very supportive mom and parent.

And you definitely deserve a room of your own in the Virginia Wolf sense, a sense of space that is yours to curate as you see fit.

And to a degree, it is unfair.

that these dolls just started colonizing the top of this piano before you and Olivia had a chance to decorate the whole home.

In a way, it is unfair too, because I think that you know that when people come into this house and they see a bunch of creepy dolls on top of a piano, unless they know your family already, in which case they would be like, oh, those must be Abby's.

Mostly people are going to be like, that's got to be hers.

It's going to be, it's got to belong to Leanne.

She must love these bananas dolls.

I agree that it's not fair,

but it's where we're at now.

The dolls are there.

The dolls have made their home there.

And Abby is very invested in them being there.

And Abby has made compelling emotional arguments for why they cannot share space with Clint, the rats, and the skeleton crew.

And I know that it's very hard.

But unfortunately, I feel like the best thing for everyone is for the dolls to maintain this annex on top of the piano until Abby is ready in conversation with the dolls to move them.

Now, Abby, I think that you need to respect that your mom is being forced into what already existed as a de facto compromise that I'm now making official by allowing this to continue, and that your mom deserves to have space and deserves to decorate her house and her the shared space of the house that she has purchased for you all to live in, she deserves to have ownership of it as well.

The house does not belong to the dolls.

I know the dolls probably were going to kill me just for saying that, and I apologize.

But I will stand up to them this far, which is to say the house is not theirs,

and you need to respect that your mom,

your mom's style is different than yours.

She does have a quarter to consider,

an end of quarter to consider.

And it's part of her style is to think about the end of quarter as well as thinking about shaking that rump.

And that's a balance that

you need to respect.

So

I am suggesting to you, and I know that these dolls come into your life somewhat providentially.

They just sort of show up from friends and so forth, right?

But I think that it's important that this doll,

there's a very thin line between a collection and a hoard, and that is display capability.

I do think that you've reached maximum doll display capability on this piano.

I think this colony of dolls is stable.

I think this colony of dolls is powerful.

And I would urge you to do nothing to disrupt this colony of dolls, either by taking any away, moving them, or adding any at this point.

Yes, sir.

Is that acceptable to you, Abby?

Absolutely.

All right.

And I and

please communicate with them that

I am standing up to them, but I don't want any problems.

You have nothing to worry about, Judge Sean Hodgman.

Okay,

good.

So, Leanne, I know this might be a disappointment to you.

That's an understatement.

And I know it's hard, but

you have three very,

you know, you have three very special children, and you have a a house that is trying to balance everybody in there.

And I think right now these dolls are part of that balance.

That may change in the future, but right now it's part of the balance.

And

I wouldn't want to upset it for

not just reasons of doll vengeance, but just for emotional balance as well.

This is the sound of a gabble.

I got a haunted doll watch.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Leanne, how do you feel?

I'm actually in shock and very disappointed and sad, but happy for Abby.

Do you think there's anything you can do for yourself, like just self-care type stuff?

I'll try.

Maybe put a candle lumber up there in addition to the dolls.

There's no room for anything else, unfortunately.

Abby, how do you feel?

I feel

like the correct choice was made.

I do have sympathy for my mother,

and I will

not let my collection become a hoard.

But I think we all know that this ended the way it was supposed to.

Leanne, I am sorry that you're disappointed.

Is there anything that I could order as compensation?

Can we at least move the crosses and maybe the voodoo stuff?

I think that the crucifixes

should be a part of negotiation.

Okay.

Can I order Abby to help you with any other projects in the home that need help?

There's just so many projects.

I mean

there's nothing I can think of right now.

I'm actually very, very surprised and shocked and I can't really think of anything except that I'm going to have to live with those dolls and I have a smidge of regret for coming on here because now I have to abide by the ruling because I was actually really sure that I would win because,

you know, I thought that a neutral adult would see the

terrifying nature of the display.

So, yeah,

I'm not sure I can think of anything that would really

dominate.

Well,

I'm really sorry to let you see that.

It's okay.

I respect your decision.

I mean, I appreciate that it's

a challenging display to live with.

Yes, it is.

And I really feel very strongly that

I understand and encourage you to make the rest of the house absolutely your own on your own terms.

You deserve that for sure.

Yes, you do.

Thanks.

But, you know, when a child expresses themselves in a very meaningful way and they're in your home and you want to share that home, sometimes that's what happens.

Sometimes you get a piano full of creepy dolls.

Sometimes you get a piano.

Being a parent, I'm afraid, in my opinion.

So I'm sorry to let you.

I feel you.

I'm really sorry to let you down.

I think that Abby hears you.

I hear you.

So

thanks.

Welcome.

But I mean, like, can I order her to do a chore or something?

I just want to, since I have this power before we leave.

Well,

she can clean her room.

She can clean the bathroom.

What about that Nicholas Cage pillow?

I'm afraid of the crucifixes too, I'm going to be honest.

Yeah, no.

She could take the Nicholas Cage pillow out of the window.

Joshua,

no, this is not great.

This is not part of it.

This is not part of it.

That would be fantastic.

I think one should think seriously about taking Nicholas Cage out of the window.

That would actually

be great.

That would make me feel a lot better.

I think that that's

a reasonable sacrifice.

Just give him a little break.

A permanent break.

I think you've overstepped your bounds.

Let's take Nicholas Cage out of the window for a little while.

Start there.

Yes, sir.

I mean, I'm not afraid of you, Nicholas Cage.

I am a little bit afraid of Nicholas Cage, honestly.

Aren't we all?

But I got to be brave at a certain level here.

All right.

You're both wonderful, and I wish you the very best.

Thank you very much for being a part of the show.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

In a moment, we will have Swift Justice.

First, our thanks to Redditor Junk Mutluck.

Junkluck.

For naming this week's episode Dolly Pardon.

Join our conversation about the show on the Maximum Fun subreddit, maximumfun.reddit.com.

And when you're over there, watch out for Junk Muttluck.

We're still asking for title suggestions there as well.

Keep an eye out for those.

Evidence and photos from our program posted on the Maximum Fun show page for this episode and on our Instagram account at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to follow us there.

Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

Our producer is Valerie Moffat.

Our litigants this week were recorded at Ignite Studios in Salt Lake City.

Salt Lake City, the Azores of the American West.

Now, let's get to Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment.

Maggie writes, My fiancé and I disagree about the best way to provide water to guests when hosting a party.

He says eight-ounce water bottles are the perfect size.

People tend to lose track of a full water bottle or a cup.

I hate the waste of mini bottles and prefer letting guests get a glass and serve themselves.

Who's right?

I'm going to solve this Reddit style.

Premarital divorce him.

Go immediately to the nuclear option.

No, but seriously, eight ounce bottles, those are no good.

That's just pure waste.

Just pure waste, Obviously, I think, Maggie, you've got the ticket right there.

Provide them with cups, plastic or recycled plastic if you must, or reusable in your home, and let them just let them fill up their water from a, I don't know, the refrigerator or a pitcher or like one of those urns for punches or whatever.

Not an urn, but you know what I mean, Jesse.

Like one of those big glass things that has a little tap at the bottom of it, and you make some cucumber water in it, whatever.

Oh, sure.

Yeah, get one of those.

I'd like to hear disputes about party fouls.

Party foul disputes.

That's perfect.

If you have a dispute about a party foul, what to do at a party, what not to do at a party, what to bring to a party, what not to bring to a party, potluck disputes.

Those are popular, popular potluck disputes.

Fancy dress disputes.

I have a question about double dipping.

Go ahead.

So obviously, dipping it into the dip, then crunching, then dipping the crunch end back into the dip.

That's a no-go.

Correct.

I'm interested to hear, and we're going to save this for the party fouls episode of Judge Sean Hodgman.

Yeah.

I'm interested to hear if we've got a long dipper.

Long dipper like a crostini.

Yeah.

Grasped in the center.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

You dip, crunch, turn, and dip.

I don't know.

Is that, what about that?

Grassini, I think is what I'm thinking of.

That long breadstick.

Yeah, what about that?

See you hold in the middle like a double-sated lightsaber.

Dip, crunch, turn, dip, crunch.

I'll save my ruling for later when we hear it.

And you know what?

Whatever your dispute is, please send it to us.

Maximumfund.org slash JJ H.

O.

Maximumfund.org slash JJ H.

O.

And speaking of Liz Gilbert, you know, she told a story once about a friend of hers who went to France and was invited to a costume party.

Uh-huh.

And he didn't get there until he realized that a costume party in France apparently just means everyone dressed like it's Versailles.

And he was dressed as a lobster.

I think I remember that story correctly.

Liz, if you're listening, let us know and we'll let you know in our party foul dispute episode.

But meanwhile, maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho.

For any dispute that you might have of any kind, big or small, we hear as a mall.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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