Dr. Goofus and Mr. Gallant

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket.

And with me is Brooklyn, New York City's own Judge John Hodgman.

Hi, John.

Hi, Jesse.

How are you?

I have a problem.

Oh, gee, this is very mysterious.

How can I help you?

Yeah.

How can I help you, buddy?

You know that I love to solve mysteries.

I'm the new Spencer for Hire.

They got rid of Marky Mark.

Now it's me.

This is truly you're talking, of course, about the Robert B.

Parker series of Boston-based detective novels, Spencer?

Well, no, Spencer is the character.

Spencer for Hire was the TV adaptation starring Robert Urich and Avery Brooks as Hawk.

They shot some of that at Brookline High School.

Later remade as a streaming film starring Marky Mark.

Yes.

No, I know about that, but that's not part of the Spencer extended universe as far as I'm concerned.

Not part of my head canon.

Got it.

Well,

how much of it did they shoot at Brookline High School in Massachusetts?

That's a good point.

That's a good point.

0%, I believe.

So it doesn't exist.

This is what I'm doing to qualify to be the new Spencer for hire.

I got an answering service, and I'm going to call it from a payphone down by the docks.

That's all you need to be a detective.

Yeah.

Any messages?

He also is a very, it was also a gourmet cook.

Well, listen, I have a message for you.

First of all, you've solved my problem in terms of mood.

I was in a fine mood.

Now I'm in a great mood because you reminded me of Spencer.

But the mystery remains, Spence,

because I walked into my office to record this podcast.

My office smells like a dog.

It smells like a wet dog has been all through this office.

And I don't, did you come over here with Sissy and Coco and rub them all over the walls?

No.

Did Jonathan Colton get kicked out by his wife?

Jonathan Colton is not a dog.

He's just got a lot of dogs.

I love a dog.

I love a cat.

I love a dog.

I love a cat.

I love them both.

But a dog smell is one that I only know from ancient memory of my Aunt Janice and Uncle Dunk's dog Chips.

This is what it smells like in here, and I don't know what's going on.

Chips is a good dog.

But it's very unnerving because, you know, this is not supposed to be.

And then also, Jesse, I did the crossword this morning.

Apparently, my Sunday solve did not get counted towards my streak.

Yeah, I'm back on it.

I'm back on the crossword now.

Wow.

That was my New Year's resolution giving up in my A-hole on Reddit.

I can't read that anymore.

I think I've seen all the A-holes.

I think I know all the A-holes personally now.

So I'm a little out of sorts because I don't know why this place smells like a dog and I don't know how to get my streak back.

So there's injustice in this world and we've got to solve it.

I've got my streak going.

Never going to stop it.

Not a crossword streak, though.

What's your streak?

Goofus and Gallant.

Wait, Goofus and Gallant, that's a column from Highlights magazine.

That's not a puzzle.

No, it's a puzzle because you see what Goofus would do and what Gallant would do.

It's different.

And you figure out.

So the puzzle is

seeing the difference.

Those of you who don't know, Highlights Magazine for Children has,

I don't know if it still exists, has or had a column called Goofus and Gallant describing how the gallant young gallant, the chivalrous person with good manners, would handle, say, being invited to Mrs.

McGillicuddy's tea or luncheon.

And he would say, thank you very much, and he would arrive properly dressed.

But that goofus boy whose name says it all, he's a goofus.

He would show up nude, right?

He wouldn't even RSVP.

He wouldn't answer, and then she wouldn't presume he wasn't coming, and then he'd show up nude.

Maybe he wouldn't bring anything.

I don't know if he would show up nude.

Yeah, clothes.

That's what he wouldn't bring.

Wouldn't bring a bottle of wine or whatever.

Goofus was frequently nude.

He would bring a bottle of rye whiskey to a tea party and he'd be nude.

Or maybe he'd be wearing like a tea towel.

That's all he'd be wearing.

Because he's a goof.

He's a goofus.

He's not polite.

So you would read that and you would determine which one you were in the situation?

Because you're always gallant, Jesse.

The two are brothers, not identical twins.

Is that true?

Well, you're doing a little Wikipedia-ing during our podcast?

Because that's a little goofus.

Leave that to me.

Originally, they were identical twins.

Then they were portrayed as brothers, but not twins.

Later,

they were two simply unrelated boys.

These days, there's some theory that they're two sides of the same kid.

Are you talking about a Dr.

Goofus and a Mr.

Gallant type situation here?

It's one kid?

You'd have to ask Judy Burke, editor of Highlights magazine.

Gallant shares his orange, but Goofus goes down to the ill part of town and stays out till 2 a.m.

drinking port wine.

That's what it says here.

That's not a real Goofus and Gallant.

That's why you don't have a streak like I do.

Here's a case from Carrie in Seattle.

After 32 years of marriage, I recently discovered that when I kiss my wife Jan, she sometimes keeps her eyes open.

Now I don't know if she's looking at me or not, and I think this is weird.

Please order her to keep her eyes closed when we kiss.

That would be a bold expansion of presidential powers.

The judicial branch really making a claim laying claim to...

Let's leave aside the issue of whether or not I should order her to keep her eyes closed when she and Carrie kiss.

I got to put this to the J squad.

Jennifer Marmor, is that weird?

I mean, I guess it's kind of weird.

I haven't thought about it.

No, I'm just looking for a gut check here.

A gut check from the J squad.

Yeah, it's weird.

Kind of weird.

Jesse Thorne, what's the old gut tell you?

It's weird, but I done it.

Well,

it feels weird because it feels asymmetrical.

You know what I mean?

Like,

this is asymmetrical kiss warfare because he didn't know for 32 years that this was going on, which makes me wonder if you're paying attention, Carrie.

What I really want to know is, how did he find out?

What happened?

How long have you been suspicious of this?

And when did you check?

Or did you find out accidentally because you secretly film your kissing sessions?

If so, I think you're even.

That's double weird.

Surveillance kissing is weird.

But if you've only opened your eyes while kissing for the first time in 32 years, J Squad Gut Check to me says that's also a little weird.

Yeah, haven't you ever heard a noise while you were kissing?

Like, what was that?

Ding-dong.

Oh, it's goofus.

Swinging your nose around like a blind dog.

What was that noise?

Carrie, we learn, I think we mostly learn how to kiss initially like from people kissing in the movies and TV.

And I think that there's a strong bias towards eye closing in those situations.

But those situations are fictional.

And once you find yourself with a romantic partner who is willing to put their lips on yours,

really you need to learn kissing from each other.

You need to learn what you like about kissing and how you like to do it because there's definitely no hard-fast rule that you have to keep your eyes closed.

And you can find your own kiss surveillance love language that works for the both of you.

But I think it's clearly not working for you, Carrie.

And I think you need to try to communicate to your wife without using a podcast intermediary that it makes you feel a little uncomfortable and ask her why.

What is she trying to do?

What is she looking for?

Spicy for this podcast, I have to say.

How did I do, Jesse?

Did I handle that goofishly or gallantly?

I think that was gallant, but I'd have to talk to the folks from Highlights magazine, specifically Highlights editor Judy Burke.

Still Wikipediaing.

I can't believe it.

I'm on mentalphiloss.com.

Okay, well, here's something from Lucian in Mountain View, California.

I did it like this.

No, I'm reading it.

Okay.

Here's something from Lucian in Mountain View.

Have you or Jesse seen the movie Hard Target starring Jean-Claude Van Damme?

My partner, Blair, refuses to watch it, but it has so much going for it.

A mulleted Jean-Claude Van Damme punching a snake, Wilfrid Brimley playing a Cajun survivalist/slash chemist, and so much action, so many kicks.

I want to screen it for my birthday outside with a projector for all our friends.

Blair says, if I do, she'll just use her phone.

I think this is harsh.

Please order her to watch it for my birthday.

I know it's not a good movie, but it's pretty darn exciting and full of unforgettable scenes.

See Snake Punch.

I have seen Snake Punch, and it is unforgettable.

He picks up a rattlesnake.

Well, rattlesnake's about, John Claude Van Damme is

about to kiss Yancey Butler, the female lead of that movie.

And she's closing her eyes.

This is why maybe you keep them open.

She's closing her eyes, waiting for that kiss to come, hoping.

And he's starting to, but John Claude Van Damm doesn't close his eyes.

He's leaning in for the kiss.

But you know that JC V D's got his eyes open.

And sure enough, over her right shoulder, as will happen in Louisiana, where this is set, a rattler, a big rattlesnake, comes up over her shoulder like, hello, and goes,

and Jean-Claude Van Damme, who is

an incredible action person, grabs it with his left hand.

And then the camera turns around and we have a close shot on Jean-Claude Van Damme.

holding this rattlesnake.

And first he taps it on the head to try to knock it out.

But rattlesnake's not having it.

It's like, no way.

And then John Claude Van Dam closes his fist and he doesn't kiss it, but he puts one on that rattlesnake's kisser.

Kapow.

Boom.

And the best part about this scene is they genuinely use a fist sound effect.

That totally fake boom

that never happens in real life.

Oh, I know.

I've never been in a fight, thank heavens, or whatever.

But no way

does it sound like that when you hit a snake.

I can say that for sure.

It does not sound like a martial arts fist contact sound effect.

And that rattlesnake goes out like a light.

I have seen hard target.

Jesse Thorne, have you seen hard target?

No, I'm more of a point break guy.

All right.

In point break, Keanu punts a dog.

He what?

Somebody, there's a dog gets thrown at someone, and they catch it and go, ah!

And then Keanu punts it out of the scene.

With his foot?

Yeah.

I mean, you wouldn't punt with your fist.

I don't know.

Well, look, he doesn't punt it with a long pole like a gondola.

Like a punter on the River Cam in Cambridge, England.

No, I'm talking about a punter, like a punter on the Minnesota Vikings.

I don't like that at all.

And you know who else would not like that?

Because I love dogs and I love cats.

And I gotta say, I didn't even like seeing the snake get punched.

It was upsetting.

I'm sure he would not want to see a dog get kicked.

That's terrible.

You know who would really not like that?

John Wick.

That's true.

He loves dogs.

He loves dogs.

His whole killing spree is inspired by someone who messes with his dog.

What if we had Keanu Reeves and then a D.H.

Keanu Reeves movie where John Wick goes after young Keanu Reeves from Point Break, and they never explain why they look exactly alike.

Young Keanu Reeves from Point Break is a cool guy.

It says, while chasing a fleeing bank robber, Johnny runs through a home.

The robber stops on the back porch and waits until Johnny approaches and throws the homeowner's pit bull at Johnny.

Johnny then pulls the dog off of him and kicks the dog out of view.

This scene was shot in cuts using a fake dog and a real one.

The real pit bull was gently tossed by the trainer into the actor's arms at a distance of approximately one and one-half feet.

The dog had been prepared for this stunt and was comfortable with the action.

The ground was padded underneath them to ensure complete safety.

The toss was completed successfully and no harm came to the animal.

A fake dog was used when Johnny kicked the dog.

You can trust point break.

Catherine Bigelow would not steer us wrong on the matter of dog safety.

Where are you getting this, Wikipedia?

I'm getting this from the American Humane Society of Hollywood.

Well, I don't care.

I don't care for, I don't even, I mean, I didn't expect that they actually hurt a dog.

I just don't think it's a nice thing to watch on a screen.

I would be upset by it.

It happens pretty fast.

It really just emphasizes the fact that the movie is completely bananas.

Not as bananas as Hard Target.

I'll tell you this.

Because even though I have seen it, and I saw it because it's John Wu's first American movie, it let off his incredible 90s American trio films, Hard Target, Broken Arrow, and Face Slash Off.

Cool action director, cool action movies.

But I also love Lance Henriksen, who's the bad guy in it.

And I I don't feel so bad about Wilfred Brimley either.

Never really got into Jean-Claude Van Damme.

I like this movie okay.

I like Time Cop fine.

That's it.

That's all I needed.

The movie JCVD is pretty cool.

I have not seen it.

Maybe I should give it a try.

Yeah.

But I'll tell you this, even though I have seen this movie and

it is reliably bonkers.

And that snake is fake too.

I don't need to go on a website to see it.

It's obviously a puppet.

But I will say this.

I didn't remember that it ends.

And this is a spoiler warning.

So if you want to to watch the movie, Blair, if I order you to watch this movie, you got to stop listening now.

Okay?

All right, here we go.

Jean-Claude Vadim, apparently, and I've not seen it recently, finally triumphs over Lance Henriksen by dropping a grenade into his pants.

Anyway, it's a goofy movie.

Lucien and Blair, by the way, have been on before.

Lucien's coming back for another snake bite at the apple with this one.

Blair used to cover Lucian's eyes during gross parts of movies, like snake attacks, I would guess, because she wanted to shield him from gross stuff and scary stuff.

And I ordered her to stop doing that.

Don't put your hands in someone else's face unless they ask you to.

But now we have this question.

Do I order Blair to watch Hard Target for Lucian's birthday?

As Natalie and Chance make their way by foot through a bayou, Chance spots a six and a half foot eastern timber snake just above Nat's head.

So he grabs the snake, punches it, and bites off its rattle.

He then rigs the snake as a booby trap for their pursuers.

The trick works, as the snake drops onto a man, biting him in the face and killing him.

Another man shoots the snake, blowing off the snake's head.

This very potent scene was accomplished with the use of a real snake, a mechanical snake built by a special effects company, and a snake made of a papier-mâché-type material.

All of the violent action was accomplished with the special effect snake or the papier-mâché snake, which was edited with footage of the real snake.

Jesse Thorne, movie pet detective, gets to the bottom of the case.

Humanehollywood.org.

Hey, Jesse, next time you go down to the docks and check your answering machine or whatever, call into your messaging service.

I'm going to have a new assignment for you.

What the heck is a Papier-Mache type material?

Just Papier-Mache.

We have a name for it.

I don't know.

Maybe they.

I want to know what new kind of Papier-Mache-esque material they pioneered for hard target.

Maybe they made it with cotton jersey instead of newspapers.

I'm going to say this.

It is harsh not to watch your partner's favorite movie or one of their favorite movies, no matter how bad, if it's a special occasion on their birthday.

That's harsh, Blair.

That's harsh.

But I can't force you to watch it.

Lucian, screen your movie for your friends and then just see what happens.

Maybe, maybe she'll use the phone, or maybe the incredible allure, the undeniable chemistry between Jean-Claude Van Damme and Yancey Butler, television's witchblade, might get her to look up from that phone.

Or maybe it won't.

You can live with it.

It's okay for someone not like something, but it's fun to revisit Hard Target.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partners.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week, and we have a case from Zane.

My sister believes that taco meat is in the taco.

I believe taco meat is on the taco.

Please end our dispute about how to use the words in and on.

Sincerely, Zane, P.S., this dispute is not about the taco or the taco meat.

Wait, what?

What was the last part?

What was that P.S.

again?

This dispute is not about the taco or the taco meat.

I think Zane is trying to get a weird disclaimer at the end of it.

I think Zane

is trying to sneak this past the all food disputes have been settled rule.

Oh, I see.

Oh, well, you know, you're too clever for your own good because you just confused me.

I forgot about that rule.

And I just wanted to know what Jesse Thorin had to say about whether a protein, a taco, a filling, doesn't have to be meat, obviously.

Is that in the taco or is that on the taco?

I have a Chase Guad gut check on that personally, but I'm going to ask you for yours, Jesse.

Well, some types of tacos, the answer is obvious.

What type of taco?

You get like

most tacos that papa are like closed up and then fried whole.

Okay, right.

Like almost like an empanada or something.

Almost like an empanada.

But with, you know, with a tortilla instead of pastry or whatever.

Right.

And in those, obviously the answer is in.

All right, but what about a taco truck taco?

What about a corn tortilla?

And let's say you're going to get carne asada.

Okay, let's say I'm going to get carne asada on two corn tortillas.

Yeah, two corn tortillas.

Yeah, I caught that.

You know what, Goofus?

I got the correction.

I got the look.

Look, I didn't agree to hear this case without appreciating that there was going to be some taco knowledge-based shaming here.

I want to get it straight.

Two corn tortillas.

Got it.

Thanks for letting me know.

What would you choose?

Carneasada might be too down the middle for you.

What do you want?

Lengua?

Cabeza.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cabesa is my favorite.

But I usually get, I'll get a variety.

If there's a good carnitas, that might be my favorite.

Good carnitas.

But sometimes a carnitas is like dry if it's not a carnitas.

Dry carnitas is not for me either.

Cabeza, okay.

What are you going to, the cabesa?

I'm not talking about any cilantro you might put on or a dash of lime or any little bits of onion or radish or whatever.

Anything anything you get out of the little fixins bar.

The baseline protein, the cabesa in this case, is that in the taco or on the taco?

I think that it's probably on the taco until such time as I pick it up to eat it.

There's a transmutation.

Yeah.

Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.

Yeah.

I think by enveloping the meat with the taco as I lift the taco, I'm probably transforming it from being on to in.

I love that answer.

My gut check was in, but I like this better.

I think it's right.

I also don't know what the situation is where you're saying meat on or in the taco.

The specific style of taco.

Yeah, well, I mean, why would you say that the meat is on or in the taco?

Like, I put a bunch of meat on that taco?

My gut check was that if it's the core ingredient of the taco, aside from the two tortillas, obviously, then it is not a topping.

And therefore, it is in.

And I think that Zane is talking about a taco truck taco or a two tortilla taco.

Because if we're talking about an Americanized taco night taco, hard shell style, you know, that's in, that's in there.

You're putting your, you're filling in that taco shell for sure.

So the fact that there's any debate whatsoever means that Zane is dealing with a, you know, what starts as two flat tortillas with some something in the middle.

I get it.

But it's, it's a, it's a change.

It's a transmutation, sure.

But what I was thinking of was transubstantiation, which I like this because transubstantiation, especially in the Catholic Church, this is the magical change that happens when the priest says a blessing over the wine and the wafer, magically changing it into the blood and body of Jesus Christ.

And the priest says, let us proclaim the mystery of faith, which is basically saying like, I know this is impossible, but the mystery of faith allows it to happen.

And young John K.

Hodgman is in there going,

what are you even trying to do here, buddy?

We know that that's not changing.

It's not a magic trick.

Try to be a religion.

Don't be a magic act.

That's when I lost my faith.

Anyway, because I love ritual and because I love prayer, and I appreciate your answer, Jesse, that the picking up of the taco, it does transform that food from one thing into another.

And in that ritual, it becomes the case that the filling is inside the taco.

Hey, Jesse, since that, I really thought that was going to be really quick, so I added an extra one into the docket real quick.

You want to hear it?

Yeah.

Another little puzzler.

My mom and I work.

This is from Catherine, who lives in Berkeley, California.

My mom and I work together at our family's bookstore.

It's Arinda Books in Orinda, California.

And we're usually the last ones to leave at night.

She insists on walking me to my car, but I insist on walking her to her car.

Who's right?

Feels like a logic puzzle.

Chase Quad, you got a gut check on this one?

Who should walk the other person to the car, mom or daughter?

First of all, I just want to give a shout out to all mother-daughter bookstore teams.

I mean, how could you not?

And by extension, all Judge John Hodgman listeners.

They are either literally or metaphorically mother-daughter bookstore teams.

Also, what if you had a mother-daughter bookstore team?

who solve mysteries, cozy mysteries, in Berkeley, California.

Come on.

We just got Linda Holmes rich.

Sorry, Linda.

Sorry, Linda.

You did it again.

You wrote another, you have to write another book.

Okay, so I'm presuming that the walking back to the car is an issue of safety, right?

Making sure someone safely gets to their car at the end of a shift.

That's what I'm getting from this, as opposed to just company.

So should the adult daughter walk the mom to her car because the mom is older

and deserving of that consideration?

Or should the mom walk the daughter to the car because it's her daughter and she is responsible for her safety?

They're both adults.

It's a real toss-up for me.

Jennifer Marmor, you got to gut check.

I think they should take turns.

And perhaps if they wanted to go an extra mile with that,

whoever is walked to their car will then drive the other person to their car.

Whoa.

Well, I love that solution.

It's got one flaw.

You should park closer to the store.

It's Berkeley, though.

I'm assuming that parking is really difficult.

It's Arinda.

I checked.

Look,

I asked her which bookstore it was, and it's Arinda Books.

And I asked because you always want to buzz market a bookstore that's being run by an incredible mother-daughter team.

But also because I wanted to check out the parking situation.

And it's got kind of, I don't want to say strip mall has bad connotations, but you know what I'm talking about.

It's got a kind of

parking lot in the front, and there are several storefronts.

So there's a parking lot.

Okay, well, that changes my entire point of view then.

Really?

But they want those spots for their customers.

These are business people.

So, okay, so they're going to park a mile away or go the extra mile, as it were.

Jesse, what's your gut chick?

I'll tell you what.

Probably the person in my life who I've admired the most, and I'm now 40 years old.

And there have been other people I admired.

You know, I've admired my mother and father.

You know, my dad was close friends with a guy named Ed Roberts who I really admired.

I admire my wife.

Probably the person I admire most though is I used to take the 26 Valencia bus in San Francisco to school.

And we would go down the street called Brotherhood Way in the southern part of San Francisco.

And every morning there was a woman in a sweatsuit.

I'd say she was about 50 years old, walking for exercise.

And this was early in the morning, quiet street, not a rough neighborhood, but not an easy one either.

And as she walked confidently down the sidewalk for exercise, she held an extended collapsible baton.

And I just thought, this is the most foolproof anti-crime situation I've ever seen in my life.

There's no way that anyone perpetrating any crime would ever target the person who's holding an extendable baton right because they might be daredevil yeah exactly this woman might have been daredevil for all i know yeah i don't know whether she was uh

practicing law on behalf of the poor people of hell's kitchen that's what he does right he does which is arguably more important than being daredevil yeah i mean it's better it's it helps the community a lot more than him standing on roofs and sniffing out crimes punching people in necks i just think it's a great it's a great chance for both of them to carry collapsible batons.

But that said, I feel like this is one of those situations where the metaphorical baton has been passed and the daughter should be taking care of the mother.

I think the time has come in each of their lives that the mother should accept that she can be cared for.

And I do think it's sensible that

if they have concerns for their safety,

that the mother then drive the daughter to her car.

Listen to gallant over here all of a sudden.

Goofus hath become gallant.

Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.

You transubstantiated yourself.

You were always gallant, Jesse.

Yeah, see, I thought the solution was that if you're going to try to overall minimize the time that any one person is walking alone, then whoever is closest gets a walk to their car and the other person then goes on because the whole issue is they're not parked in the exact same spot, right?

Then you wouldn't have the issue.

You won't have someone walking to the further car and then walking back to the car.

That's increasing the amount of time.

So I was going to say to Catherine, hey, if you want to make sure, if you want to make sure that you walk your mom,

just make sure you park further away.

But I like,

I take it back.

J-Squad saves the day again.

Just walk her to her car.

And then if she feels like it, she can drive you to your car.

That's sweet.

Extra time together.

Maybe that's a curse.

You've been working all day selling books, solving mysteries.

Maybe you need some alone time.

But I think that that's exactly right.

Just drive the other person to their car once you get to the car.

Simple as that.

Here's something from Barrett in Louisville.

My wife and I were playing 20 questions on a road trip.

I had chosen something for my wife to guess.

At some point, my wife discovered it was a film.

She asked if it was fantasy.

Obviously, I could only say yes or no.

After struggling with what my answer would be, I eventually said yes.

As you can probably guess, the game derailed, and once I revealed the answer, my wife was irate.

We've been together 11 years,

and at the time, this was perhaps the most heated debate we'd ever had.

Well, J Squad,

can either of you guess the movie?

You can ask 20 questions.

Star Wars.

No.

Star Wars is a fantasy.

I'm going to spoil my ruling here and give you a hint.

It's not a fantasy.

That's why this is a dispute.

Okay, then my next guess has got to be Moneyball.

It's not Moneyball.

Love, actually.

You guys don't even know how to play 20 questions or love.

You're supposed to be asking questions.

Okay.

It's not love, actually.

That's three.

Is it Moneyball?

No.

Koofus.

With Brad Bitt.

Yeah, no, I understand.

Is it based on a book?

No, that's a great question.

No, it's not based on a book.

Did you know that the other day I was scrolling through a streaming service and one of the categories it offered me was movies based on books.

And I thought, who is thinking, God, I'd love to watch a movie based on a book right now?

It's not money ball okay it's not money ball i'll tell you what i'm not going to reveal it i'll reveal it to you guys off mic later i have another question john okay

is there a money ball 2 no there's not it's not money ball 2 there is no money ball 2 i didn't guess whether it was i just was wondering if there was oh i can i confused there yeah Well, it's not Money Ball 2.

It's none of the Money Balls.

It's not in the Money Ball extended universe at all.

Got it.

Moneyball was based on a book, wasn't it?

The Money Ball was based on a book.

Yeah, that's right.

Michael Lewis.

It's an original story.

All right, here's what I'm going to tell the listeners.

This is a movie.

I'm giving you a leg up.

This is a movie.

It's an original story.

It is not based on a book.

And sorry so much, Barret.

It is not a fantasy, and you knew it.

This is one of those situations.

Take it from me.

A 20-question player, when you are the person who is offering the answers.

I understand why you said this.

I understand why you felt like you had to say

fantasy because it's definitely not,

it's not grounded in humanity,

in human real life.

But it doesn't have any wizards in it.

You know what I'm saying?

It's got to have a wizard in it to be a fantasy, pretty much.

You know what fantasy means.

You knew you were wrong.

So you as the person has to say,

no.

Or if it leans more towards fantasy, but it's not quite there, then you go,

yes.

You got to say, just like that.

Give information.

You're playing a game.

You're having fun on your road trip.

You don't want to mess it up.

Give false information.

It's not a fantasy, this movie.

I'm not going to say what this movie is because I want everyone to guess it on the Reddit.

Oh, my gosh.

What's the matter?

I got to know what it is.

I'll tell you off mic.

I'm gallant.

I'm gallant.

I want people to guess it on the Reddit or guess it in the comments of the Judge John Hodgman Instagram page at JudgeJohn Hodgman.

You can ask up to 20 questions per username and your username better not be Barrett from Louisville because then I'll know you're a cheat.

And again, it's not moneyball.

It's an original story.

It's not based on a book.

It's not fantasy.

And when you figure it out, you're going to understand why Barrett's wife was mad.

Let's go to a break.

I'll tell you in the break, Jesse.

When we come back, justice delayed.

Also, if you work in Hollywood, drop me a line.

I got a great pitch for a spin-off series for streaming about Kevin Euclis, the third baseman, first baseman, known as the Greek god of walks.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while maybe you never listened and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years i know where this has ended up but no

no you would be wrong we're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing yeah you don't even really know how crypto works The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lollum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from clearing the docket to talk about what we have going on.

What have you got going on?

Oh boy, Jesse David Reese and I are in the final stages of this secret project that we've been working on together.

And

I hope that we'll have some news for you very soon, but

in terms of what that is and when you might be able to enjoy it.

But until then, and completely apropos of nothing, please take a look at our TV show Dick Town

over there on FX on Hulu and very easy to get there.

B-I-T.ly/slash Dick Town.

And boy, oh boy, Jesse Thorne, I'm feeling a little bit bad because last week I recommended a new book by our friend John Darnell, and I called it by the wrong name, as I often do.

I called it the Devil House when it's really just called Devil House.

I picked it up from Books Are Magic, and I'm reading it, and it is really good.

And, you know, John is one of those people who, like, he's one of the greatest songwriters and lyricists, and one of the most sensitive, smart, just people of goodwill in this world.

He's an incredible magic the gathering player.

He's got no business being a great novelist, but he is one anyway.

And if you haven't read his books before, Wolf and White Van or Universal Harvester,

and now Devil House, I really highly recommend them.

They're incredibly smart reads.

So check it out while you're waiting for the secret project, among other things.

What do you got going on, Jesse?

Well, I'm glad you mentioned JD

because John Darnell is on Bullseye with Jesse Thorne this week, my NPR show.

He's participating in a segment called I Wish I'd Made That,

and his choice is the first Depeche Mode album.

And

if you are friends with John Darneill on Facebook, which I am, you know that there is

no finer or more perceptive,

insightful critic and thinker on the subject of popular music.

Like

John's insights on pop music of all kinds, and I mean, you'd think, look, John Darnell hangs around playing an acoustic guitar and writing narrative

songs with wordy lyrics, and he was once famous for his lo-fi production and so on and so forth.

You'd think that his insights on the kind of music that I like would be lacking.

But like, if you want to know what John Darnell thinks about like cameo or Earth, Wind and Fire or something, the answer is he knows everything about it and has incredible insights.

So, I'm sure he has incredible insights into Depeche Mode.

I think it's going to be a really cool segment.

Let's get back to the docket.

No!

What?

What?

The

hey, everybody, we're back.

I just told Jennifer and Jesse the movie that Barrett was using as the basis for his 20 Questions game.

You can hear their response.

It is not a fantasy, correct?

It's not even, it's not a fantasy at all.

It's not even, I think Jennifer's guess of love actually is more of a fantasy than the movie that Barrett said was a fantasy.

It barely even has fantastic elements in it.

Don't give any hints to the listeners.

I've already told them as much as I want them to know.

Well, I'm speechless.

Love actually doesn't have a wizard in it.

Speechless might be more of a fantasy than this movie.

Sheesh.

So mad.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgen podcast.

It's time for Justice delayed jesse that's correct jesse oh now i'm reading my part again once again i your judge have dug deep deep deep back into my uh judge john hodgman inbox to recover an email with a case in it that i not only did not resolve but as in this particular case i not only didn't resolve it i didn't even respond to the person Didn't even, that was a goofest thing to do, and I apologize, because this segment of Justice Delayed goes all the way back 10 years to January the 5th, 2011.

This person wrote to me, and I did not respond.

Goofus.

Go ahead, Jesse.

Read the letter if you please.

My name is Brock, and I have a very simple dispute.

Magneto versus Magneto.

I bring the case against my wife, Amy, and also Stan Lee, and also everyone involved with all three X-Men movies.

This is 2011.

There were only three

The villain is Magneto because he has the power of magnetism, which is a real word, rather than the power of magnetism.

I have been reading comic books since I was 12 years old, and I have always read his name as Magneto.

My wife claims I'm wrong, just because Magneto is popular.

Please rule in my favor.

My cell phone number is

Thank you for your swift justice.

We redacted the cell phone.

This goes all the way back to when there was no form at maximumfund.org slash JJHO and people just wrote emails and gave me their cell phone numbers so that we could contact them and also said I could add it to my database and sell it to various companies.

Just kidding.

Not true.

That last part.

Without getting into the pronunciation of this character's name, Jesse Thorne, you know the character Magneto or Magneto?

You know who that we're talking about here?

Yeah, he's like a purple guy with a helmet that can throw nails and bridges and stuff.

That's right.

Jennifer Marmor, are you familiar with this character?

Magneto or Magneto?

I am.

This is a miracle of modern culture, as far as I'm concerned, because when Tim McGonagall and I were 11 years old, bobbing around in the bay in Little Compton, Rhode Island, staying with his mom, Suzanne, we would just sit out there all day and we would just talk about who

should be the various characters in an X-Men movie.

We loved the X-Men.

We wanted to see those X-Men's on the screen.

We were thinking who would play.

I don't even remember any of our fantasy casts because I also remember the distinct 11-year-old despair that we felt overshadowing the entire conversation because we knew there would never, ever, ever be an X-Men movie because comic books were marginal culture then, relatively, to certainly where they are now.

And no one would ever care to put Magneto or Magneto on a screen and have him throw nails at Wolverine or whatever.

Everyone would say it's too silly.

And also, there's no way to get Nightcrawlers' hands correct.

Wouldn't look good.

Yeah, you couldn't design good enough gloves.

It turned out all you needed was Alan Cumming.

That guy can do anything.

He literally can do anything, including putting on special gloves.

But this was back, you know, in the ancient past.

We had no way of making mechanical snakes out of some kind of Papier-Mâché type material.

Things were very limited back then.

Apart from Superman, any attempt to make a superhero movie had failed.

But mostly there was just like this disgust that mainstream culture had for these characters because they were teenage soap operas and power fantasies.

Now that's all we care about.

But at the time, there were grown-ups who were like, no.

And I even remember when I was a,

I was a freelance writer for magazines part-time when

Lord of the Rings came out.

And I was interviewing one of the promotional people for Lord of the Rings.

And behind the scenes, he was like, no one's going to care about this fantasy movie.

greasy kid stuff.

Our biggest fear is that people are going to laugh this out of theaters because of Hobbits.

They were wrong.

So are Tim McGonigal and I.

We got it right.

I never would have guessed that a mere 29 years later in 2011,

everyone in the J-Squad would know the name of Magneto.

Magneto is his name, Brock.

I guess you could have made that mistake back then, though.

Like, I guess you could have thought it was Magneto if you were a kid reading comics.

And according to a screenrant.com article I read on this subject, oh,

it feels nostalgic to read websites about nerd culture now.

But according to this article, apparently this was a debate for in the early years of the X-Men.

How do you pronounce the name, Magneto or Magneto?

Stanley said that it was a debate starting from the very beginning.

So you could have made this mistake, Brock, if you only read comics and you never watched television.

Because the fact fact is, as far back as 1978,

this character, Magneto, appeared on the Fantastic Four cartoon and was called Magneto.

He appeared twice more in Spider-Man and then Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends in 1980 and 1981.

He was Magneto.

They called him that.

And don't everybody who's already writing your letters to me about the 1967 Spider-Man, where a character named Dr.

Magneto shows up.

It's a different character.

It's not Magneto.

That's Dr.

Matto Magneto.

You're going to send me those letters anyway.

I can feel it.

I can feel you like, well,

John, you can just text this to Elliot Kalen.

You don't need to go through a whole thing on the air.

I don't need to text it to Elliot Kalen because Elliot Kalen knows.

Brock is the one who 10 years ago didn't know for sure.

And by the year 2000, a full 11 years before you wrote me, Brock, it was well established.

This character's name was Magneto, along with Professor Xavier, which should really be pronounced Xavier, but it isn't.

But here's the thing, Brock,

good news for you.

Also in this screenrant.com article I read,

I learned that there was someone else as recently as 2020 who thought he should be called Magneto.

And that person famously said so on Twitter.

And there was a superstorm, a magnetic superstorm around this, because it was Ian McKellen.

Ian McKellen said, I don't understand why he's not called magneto.

The word is magnet.

This was in 2020.

That's why I waited, Brock.

That's why I waited nine years for Ian McKellen to weigh in.

And then I had to wait two more years, roughly, just to make sure he didn't change his mind.

I'm sorry, Brock.

I'm sorry, sir, Ian McKellen.

It's magneto.

You know, like the real word, magneto,

which is an alternator with with permanent magnets used to generate current for the ignition in an internal combustion engine.

End quote, Merriam-Webster's dictionary, magneto, not a sandwich.

Do you know why I always knew it was magneto?

No.

It's a portmanteau.

You know what a portmanteau is?

Sure.

It's a word you make up.

Take two words and match it together.

Exactly.

So the two words here are mag.

because he has magnetic power.

Sure.

That makes sense.

And then Nito, because it's neat to, because he's throwing bridges around.

Yeah, it is.

He's a purple helmet.

It's Nito, all right.

Yeah.

I have some pretty good superpower, I gotta say.

I tell you what, it's better than Daredevil super sniffing.

That's fair.

Good sense of smell that guy has.

Hearing, hearing too, I guess.

You know, radar sense.

I'd still take power of magnetism.

The docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Our editor is Valerie Moffat.

Writing in right now to clarify some stuff about Marvel is Elliot Kalen from The Flophouse.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your judgejohnhodgman tweets, hashtag jjho, and check out the maximum fun subreddit to discuss this episode.

Now, Judge Hodgman, we're always looking for cases.

You can always email your cases directly to us at hodgman at maximumfund.org.

You include all your contact information and everything, your phone number and so forth.

Or you can just go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO, where there's a form there, any kind of case.

But this week we are particularly looking for Valentine's Day cases because Valentine's Day is coming up.

So

romance cases.

Do you have a dispute with someone on the subject of romance?

And it doesn't have to be a romantic partner.

Like, did your dad embarrass you on a date that you were going on the prom or whatever?

Or did your friend crash on your couch on the very night of your wedding like my friend Adam did when Charles and Vanessa got married?

Wow.

Yeah.

Or do you have someone like me pushing Valentine's Day on you when you hate this holiday and you'd rather just ignore it?

Let us know, maximumfund.org slash JJHO or email me at hodgman at maximumfund.org.

We always take all cases again, but romance cases.

If you got a romance case, okay.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hey, everybody, it's your Judge John Hodgman.

I'm waiting for you in secret after the credits.

I promised you last week that I would finally wrap up our Great Lakes Speech Report series with the last Great Lake that I had yet to report on, and that is Lake Superior.

And Jesse Thorne does not care about Great Lakes Beach Report.

Sorry about that.

He doesn't, so I'm doing it.

over here by myself after the credits.

Jennifer Marmor is still here.

She has to be captive audience.

You're the producer.

So, Jennifer Marmor, have you ever been to Lake Superior?

No, I haven't.

Have you ever been to any of the Great Lakes or on any of the Great Lakes?

I'll list them for you.

Okay.

First one we did was Lake Michigan.

I have seen

Lake Michigan.

I've seen Lake Michigan.

With my personal eyeballs.

Yeah, I've clapped eyes on Lake Michigan, as they would say, in Downton Abbey Land.

Right.

But I've not been inside of it ever.

Me either.

Lake Huron?

Nope.

Nope.

Me neither.

Lake Erie?

No.

Alas.

I've never been to Cleveland.

Can you believe it?

No, I actually can't.

I know.

I know.

I feel terrible about it.

Well, you'll get there one day, I'm sure.

Oh, you know what?

I've seen Lake Ontario, of course.

I've been to Toronto.

Wow.

Big smoke.

So I've seen Lake Toronto, but I haven't been inside of it.

Okay.

And certainly I've never been anywhere near Lake Superior.

Lake Superior is the world's largest lake by surface area, excuse me, the world's largest freshwater lake by surface area, and the third largest freshwater lake by volume, second largest lake of any kind in the world after what?

Why am I saying freshwater lake, Jennifer Marma?

Do you know why?

No, but I'm sure you have a great reason.

Because you got to count that Caspian Sea.

Caspian Sea dwarfs Lake Superior, both in surface area and volume.

But we're not counting it because you know why?

It's brackish.

It's a mix.

It's not exactly saltwater, but it's a mix of salt and freshwater.

Brackish.

I know.

It's gross.

Look, Lake Superior by area is about 32,000 square miles.

What would you guess the Caspian Sea is by area?

Surface area.

Every time you ask me to guess something like this, I freeze.

This is Price's Right style.

I apologize.

What was Lake Superior again?

31,700 square miles.

One dollar.

You're the closest without going over.

Caspian Sea, 143,000 square miles of surface area.

By volume, Lake Superior is the third largest lake in the world by volume.

2,900 cubic miles of water.

Caspian Sea, 18,800 cubic miles of brackish water.

Holy cow.

Yeah, Lake Superior indeed.

But before we roast this lake's obvious insecurity problem, let let us not forget this, Lake Superior.

This is the lake that simply wrecks the Edmund Fitzgerald.

This is the lake whose lowest depths were not plumbed.

When do you think we reached the bottom of Lake Superior in human history?

Jennifer Marmer, if you had to take a guess, and you can't guess $1.

This is the year 2022 that we're recording this.

I would guess 1930.

1985.

No one had been down to the very bottom of Lake Superior till 1985.

That's when

lake professor Jeffrey Val Klump took his Johnson Sea Link II submersible all the way down to the bottom, 122 fathoms and one foot below sea level.

This is the lake whose islands have lakes that have islands in them.

It's that big.

Oh my gosh.

It's the size of South Carolina and Austria combined, but then cut in half.

It's the size of either South Carolina or Austria.

It's a lake.

What an interesting duo.

Yeah, yeah, look.

I'm doing what I can with Wikipedia these days.

It's a great lake, and it's got some great beaches.

It borders not one, but you know, these beaches, I think you'll find are tend to be

a little bit more rugged than some of the other Great Lakes beaches we've been talking about.

It borders not one, not two, but three United States and one Canadian province.

So let's go around the horn starting north in Ontario.

We're talking about Pebble Beach.

We're talking about Stone Beach.

We're talking about Gravel Beach.

These are the names of beaches.

You're getting a sense of the kinds of beaches you're going to encounter up there on the northern shore of Lake Superior.

These are but a few of the accurately named main-like painful beaches.

of the northern shoreline.

The north of the lake, much like its west and south and east, offers more isolated, as I say, rugged experience compared to the wild parties and the swim-up bars at Put-in-Bay Island and tropical Lake Huron.

Excuse me, Lake Erie, sorry.

These are beaches for hiking and sketching and contemplation of mortality and kayaking and canoeing and getting out of the car and looking at the beach and then getting back into the car and going home.

But there are a few soft sand gems on the Ontario shore of Lake Superior, notably Sandy Beach of Thunder Bay.

They got so excited they called it Sandy Beach.

I can understand.

As well as across Lake Superior, the other Sandy Beach.

In the city of Wawa.

Then there's, I know.

Then there's Catherine's Cove in Lake Superior Provincial Park, boasting white sand beaches and still

relatively warm waters.

This spot was described by Google user Igor Kapco as Cuba in Ontario.

Plus, if you're over there in Catherine's Cove, follow the trail to the shallow water water by the sand dunes and then walk into it because you can walk through the water to picturesque bathtub island.

It's a short, navel-deep walk over a sandbar.

Go see the natural stone pool on the island.

You're already wet.

Go get in it.

That's fun.

And if it's August, you probably won't freeze.

On to Michigan's Upper Peninsula, aka Secret Wisconsin.

You ever been to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan?

No, I haven't.

It's part of Wisconsin, but Michigan likes to claim it.

Yeah.

It makes no sense that it's part of Michigan.

It's not even a part of the Mitten.

Right.

Destination.

Follow me, Jennifer Marmor, to Marquette,

largest city in the UP.

Hometown of National Treasure Joe Parra.

And of course, Presque Isle Park, a picturesque bit of forest and rock.

A peninsula jutting into Lake Superior's southern shore, which was either designed by Frederick Law Olmsted, or it was so beautiful that Frederick Law Olmsted refused to design it.

Wikipedia is unclear on this.

It's a little pretty contradictory, actually, Wikipedia.

Get it together.

Whatever the case, we can say this for short.

It definitely has shoreline, and some of it is a pebbly beach.

But for arguable fun and the arguable sun, more locals go to McCarty's Cove.

to enjoy the soft sand lake breezes and they force their children to go swimming in the water's tolerable temperatures while they just watch them because it's too cold to go swimming really.

I bet it gets pretty warm in August.

Yeah.

In Marquette.

I bet you can go get some night swimming in there.

But hey, before you leave Marquette, Jennifer Marmor, you know you gotta check out

Superior Dome.

Ooh.

It's the largest wooden dome in the world.

Yeah, I'll check that out.

Marquette looks like an interesting town.

Yeah.

But still, you must leave.

For what trip to Michigan's Upper Peninsula would be complete without a trip to Santa Monica?

Record scratch?

What?

That's right, there's a beach in Michigan, Upper Peninsula, Santa Monica Beach,

Michigan.

Hey, youpers.

That's what you call people in the upper peninsula, youpers.

I got more conflicting info from Wikipedia on this one.

Is Santa Monica Beach distinct or just another name for Agate Beach?

which is famous for its agates and other non-sand rocks?

Because I read they're the same, but then they seem to be different.

Either way, congratulations, Upper Peninsula, for being confusing and

misleading at the same time.

Leaving the peninsula of many questions, chief of which is, why isn't Wisconsin behind?

On now to the Badger State, America's Dairyland.

Those are the two nicknames of Wisconsin.

What do badgers and cows have in common, Jennifer Marmor?

One dollar.

Yeah.

They all share a dollar?

They do.

Some of them are black and white.

None of them are red all over.

But they are both terrestrial animals.

They're land animals.

Yes.

Because Wisconsin is mostly land.

Guess what?

With 132 plus miles of shoreline between Saxon, Wisconsin, and Superior, Wisconsin, Wisconsin's brief novelty shoreline makes it the New Hampshire of Lake Superior.

Set off in your kayak from Myers Beach to explore the dramatic sandstone caves of the Apostle Island National Seashore.

This is a place I want to go to.

Google right now, Apostle Island, well, I even just Google Myers Beach, Wisconsin.

I want you to see these sea caves that they got.

Keep going.

This is...

Yeah, right?

Hello.

They got a sandy beach, but they also have access to the Apostle Island National Seashore, which is a series of islands that are almost literally undermined.

They're not mined, but like they're wormed through with these dramatic caves that you can kayak through, these sandstone caves.

And it truly looks like a bizarre trip through time.

And guess what happens during the winter?

They become ice caves when you do not want to be there, I figure.

Probably not.

Totally cool, though.

Or you can move westward to arguably enjoy the sands of Cornucopia Beach upon the shallow waters of Siskuit Bay.

Actually, there are a lot of sandy peaks throughout the Wisconsin shoreline.

Look them up.

They all look pretty good to me.

I couldn't, I they all look good.

So let's hop across the John A.

Blatnick Memorial Bridge, aka Interstate 535, connecting Superior, Wisconsin with, now Jennifer Marmer, you got to know this, right?

These are the twin, the twin cities, not St.

Paul and Minnesota, but Superior, Wisconsin.

And where in Minnesota?

In Minnesota?

Yeah.

Duluth?

You're right!

Yay!

How did you know that?

I looked at a map.

You looked at a map.

map.

Duluth is correct.

I wouldn't have guessed.

I wouldn't have either.

I just happen to be.

Duluth, Minnesota, the zenith city of the unsalted seas.

I wish I could take credit for that phrase, but that one belongs to Dr.

Thomas Preston Foster, the founder of Duluth's first newspaper, coined that term in a 4th of July speech in the late 1800s.

Duluth, which I had previously known only

as the namesake of the Duluth Trading Company, which bought the best-made company, company, which makes the shirts that fit me well.

But in fact, it's a whole city with a lot going on.

Guess where Pie Alla Mode was invented, Jennifer Marmor.

Was it in Duluth?

It was.

Wow.

Guess where Gino's pizza rolls were invented?

Can't have been Duluth.

It was Duluth.

Oh my gosh.

Guess which place is known throughout the world for its amazing 15-foot wave swells, drawing surfers who who are from all over.

Surfers, it can't be Duluth.

It's gotta be California somewhere.

No,

it is waves to rival California and Hawaii because Lake Superior is a big old lake.

It's also the birthplace of Bob Dylan.

I like Duluth and I want to check it out.

So let's go back to surfing.

Yes, if you're a Duluthy, you could enjoy the sandy shores of Park Point Beach.

But just a shy 15 miles north of downtown is Stony Point, Point, where surfers gather from around the region and the world to ride those 15-foot swells in water averaging 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

Look up the Lake Superior surfers of Duluth.

They are wearing some thick, thick wetsuits.

Because if you were to perish in the waters of Lake Superior,

here's a fun fact, your corpse won't decompose.

It's too cold.

It inhibits bacterial growth and they're the ones that eat your body and give off gases which make you float to the the surface if you drown.

They'll never find your body if you die in that Lake Superior.

You'll just sink to the bottom perfectly preserved.

So have fun surfing.

And hey, Superians of Wisconsin, I'm sure Superior is pretty great.

I'm sorry that I didn't talk more about Superior, Wisconsin.

I'm sure your waters are just as murderous.

But I had to move on to Minnesota.

North of Duluth, of course, there's a lot of Minnesota shoreline.

But as we wind the clock back up to Canada, our beaches get increasingly main-like and menacing.

Make sure to check out the jagged rocks of Iona Beach that sing as they shift in the wind.

True story.

The dramatic black sands of Black Beach, the fist-sized stones of Two Fish House Beach, the Hollow Rock, which is a hollow rock in Grand Portage.

And then there is wilderness again until we return to Thunder Bay.

That's it.

That's the end of our Great Lakes Beach Report for Lake Superior and indeed for all the Great Lakes.

It began last August in episode 529 Sweet Corn Season when I made fun of Bethany and Kate for claiming to have gone to a lakefront beach with cabanas instead of an actual beer garden.

And I said there's no such thing as a real beach on a Great Lake.

And now after Lake Michigan, Huron, Erie, Ontario, and now Lake Superior, I know.

That was pure ocean chauvinism.

And I apologize.

Jennifer Marmor, I am going, unless things change, I am going to Chicago in April

and I am not going to get into Lake Michigan.

Sorry.

That's the right choice.

I will stop for once on Lakeshore Drive and go onto that beach and speak my apology

to Lake Michigan.

I know that apology will carry over to Lake Huron because they are hydrologically identical.

They're essentially one large lake.

I will apologize to Mackinac Island.

I will apologize to Cleveland for never visiting.

We got to get Judge John Hodgman over there.

And to Lake Erie, where I want to hang out.

Maybe go to Putin Bay Island.

Yeah.

Apologize to Lake Ontario and Lake Superior.

You're all pretty great.

And you have some great beaches.

Which one should we go to first?

On tour.

Cleveland, I think, would probably be a good idea, right?

Yeah, definitely Cleveland.

Definitely Cleveland.

I'm going to check out those Indiana dunes.

Oh, yeah.

I'm going to check them all out.

Maybe when it's warmer.

And hey, if you've got a beach or a town on a Great Lake that you think I should know about, let me know.

Hodgman at MaximumFund.org.

It doesn't have to be Cleveland.

I'm not sure that we can necessarily do a show there.

It depends on the size, but I'm certainly interested in the area and I'd love to know about all the cool things to see them do around the Great Lakes.

And hey.

If you know about a great beach on the Caspian Sea, hey, I could swim in some brackish waters.

Email me at hodgman at maximumfund.org and let me know.

And maybe we'll do the greatest lake beach report.

But that's for the future.

For now, I'm Judge John Hodgman.

We'll talk to you next time.

Thanks, Jennifer.

Bye, everybody.

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