Send Podcasts, Lobster Roll

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket.

And with me is Brooklyn's only podcaster,

Judge John Hodgman.

That's right.

Look, I was up in Maine, and then I got a telegram saying Brooklyn has no podcasts.

It said, please send podcasts, comma lobster rolls.

So I hopped into my Mitsubishi Delica and zoomed down the coast.

That was just a little.

I know.

I got you thinking about a Mitsubishi Delica.

I'm going to be in my, in my Delica subreddit looking at delicas now.

A Delica is a Japanese adventure van.

Like, you need to say more words after that.

I just couldn't love looking at them more.

Except for John, do you know about Subaru Sambar Classic?

No, what's that all about?

It's even better than a delica.

For me, it's not better than a delica for practical purposes, but it's also Japanese only.

It's what they call a K-car,

which is a class of car in Japan that has a sort of very small engine that's encouraged by tax and emissions laws.

And it's an adorable van that is actually quite tiny.

but also immensely capable.

But unfortunately, after learning that there was one for sale at an extraordinarily affordable price right near my home, I learned that they cost about $5,000 to $10,000 to bring to California emissions standards.

Oh, so you can't, yeah, obviously.

Yeah, it's not going to work.

I know that you love Mitsubishi Delicas.

And for those who have not yet

pulled over to the side of the road to Google this vehicle, it looks like a 1980s

sort of VW Vannegan style camper van, except it's about seven feet off the ground.

Somehow it's seven feet off the ground with wheels about the size of pancakes.

Like it's very, it's a very, and silver dollar pancakes.

Tiny, little, tiny little wheels, but it has off-roading capabilities.

And I was thinking about it because we genuinely saw one on the road as we were as we were speeding south from Maine to bring podcasts to Brooklyn.

And my wife was like, what is that?

I said, it's a Mitsubishi Delka.

And we both were like, how, how that thing does not tip over on any curve, I do not know.

It is so top heavy.

Yeah, how it reaches a speed above 45 miles per hour is what I want to know.

Oh, so beautiful.

I had the whole thing that I was going to do about small cans of spicy hot V8, which is, but we'll have to save that for next time because we've got a lot of justice to clear.

And

what I basically learned is small cans of spicy hot V8

will last.

They'll keep until next time.

They'll keep in your refrigerator for months and months until you discover them as a sweet surprise in the back of your fridge once you've come back from Maine to Brooklyn.

That's all.

So I basically did it.

When you need a little treat while you look through pictures on

the battle wagons subreddit, it's another one I like.

Okay, here's a case from Zoe.

I recently mentioned to my husband that since I was about 10, when I see a late 90s Subaru Imprezzo wagon, particularly a red one, I see late 90s Christian Slater.

The slicked back hair is an obvious parallel,

but it also appears to wear a slight sneer.

My husband, who has had a crush on Slater roughly his whole life, disagrees, primarily due to being offended at the concept of a sexy man being compared to a vehicle.

I know I'm right and I'm willing to die on this hill.

Now, they were kind enough to send us pictures of Christian Slater.

Yes.

I mean, I think we've all got a pretty good picture in our head of Christian Slater.

Excuse me, Jesse.

Let me interrupt for one moment.

Zoe

and their husband, not kind at all, did not send us photos of either Christian Slater or the Subaru Impreza wagon.

That was Jennifer Marmor who went out and sourced those photos.

Thank you, Jennifer.

I enjoyed their confidence that the slicked back hair on Christian Slater was an obvious parallel to the Subaru Impreza, which if you haven't seen a Subaru Impreza, a Subaru Impreza is

a compact wagon.

You might be thinking of a different 90s Subaru wagon, the Legacy, which is a little bigger.

You know, it's more of a full-size.

This is like

a sporty hatchback slash wagon, kind of interesting.

We should just do car talk from now on.

I mean, this is what this is the podcast that Brooklyn wants.

Yeah,

two guys talking about cars,

yeah.

It's sporty.

Now, look, here's what I'm going to say: I don't think that there's anything for Zoe's husband to be offended by

vis-a-vis comparing a sexy man like Christian Slater to a car.

Anyone who remembers the 1980s Saturday morning cartoon Turbo Teen

about a

So both of you.

About a teen who's driving his cool sports car through a rainstorm, accidentally crashes into a science lab in the midst of a molecular transfer experiment and gains the powers to turn into his car.

And you see him transform

his hands into

wheels and his butt into a trunk nose.

It's very sensual.

Don't go to YouTube and look at the opening credits for Turbo Teen unless you're ready to be a little bit repulsed.

But it's very interesting and funny.

But Jennifer Marmor pulled these pictures and I would say, look, I wouldn't mind being compared to a cool car.

Someone said, hey, there's John Ojman.

He looks like a, I don't know, what's a cool car, Jesse?

A jaggy.

A Mitsubishi delica?

No,

I don't think I can carry a Mitsubishi delica.

I wish I could.

I mean, you have have very small wheels.

That's true.

But I will take this issue, first of all, the Christian Slater she's talking about is not late 90s.

I think she wants to say

late 80s, early 90s Christian Slater.

That's classic Christian Slater.

Yeah.

Jennifer Marma, are these photos from late 90s or what period of Christian Slater are we looking at here?

They're from late 90s.

Thank you.

Yeah, I wanted to be true to the letter.

One of them is from Very Bad Things.

The other one is from Bed of Roses.

Thank you for doing the work that Zoe refused to do yeah no offense zoe

not even sending in a photo now here is a photo of the of a of a subaru impreza wagon red just like zoe said do you know what model year this is jennifer marmor it's in 1996 1990 that counts as late 90s right sure i think so i will say look looking at it i'm gonna hold for a reveal in a second looking looking looking at this first photo i'm definitely gonna say

no that doesn't look like christian Slater to me.

Does it look like Christian Slater to you, Jesse, from the front?

It has a distinctive brow line, and I think that is the element that is closest to Christian Slater, who himself has a distinctive brow line.

Yeah, but you know what, but he has that smirk, and I'll tell you what, that second photo, if you look at that car from the car butt view, that looks like Christian Slater to me.

So you think the butt of the car looks like Christian Slater?

I think that looks like Christian Slater.

I think that's a real, I get it now it may be the power of suggestion i went to a website called gear patrol just because i wanted to see other cars that looked like humans yeah and gear patrol talked about a phenomenon called para parid i don't know if i'm pronouncing this correctly paredolia which is the human tendency to see human features in inanimate objects including cars.

And maybe it's because you put Christian Slater's

face into my mind.

But when I look at that rear view of the Subaru Impreza and that kind of jutting jawline of its bumper, and then the way the hatchback slicks back, I see Christian Slater there for sure.

I don't know if you're seeing this in the photograph, but I also noticed that, like Christian Slater, there's a lot of junk in the trunk.

But, Jesse, I shared with you a link to this Gear Patrol page, and I want to ask your opinion on something.

Okay.

I've got the link here.

Yeah.

Navigate to it using your browser.

Sure.

Now, there are a lot of cars in this article that seem to be smiling at you,

including the incredibly adorable Austin Healy Sprite Mark I, which truly looks like a smiling Miyazaki character.

Yeah, it truly, I was about to say that it looks like Thomas the Tank engine, perhaps because it's an Austin Healy, but

you're right.

It does look like a Miya Heale.

It looks like the cat bus,

the face of the cat business totoro.

It does.

But may I ask you to scroll all the way down?

Because I want your opinion on this.

This might just be my paradolia or whatever talking

to the 2020 Toyota Highlander, which is staring very grimly straight on in your face in this photo.

Kind of scowling.

Do you see it?

Yeah, I see it.

Is that Danny Trejo or no?

Oh, wow.

Yeah, why not?

Sure.

That's Danny Trejo.

I mean, it's probably my par bedorpirop where you put Danny Trejo into my mind.

And you could have shown me a picture of Thomas the Tank Engine.

I would have said it looked like a- I didn't put Danny Trejo into your mind.

Iconic character actor Danny Trejo,

known for his

rude tude and his tasty tacos.

That's right.

Do you know who looks like a Mitsubishi Delica to me?

Who's that?

The actor Richard Kind.

Doesn't he kind of?

Well, they look the same in my heart because I love them both so much.

I mean, like,

I just, everyone, you know,

after you pull over and whatever you're driving and Google Richard Kind and Mitsubishi Delica and tell me if you don't think

that beautifully top-heavy, squared-off Mitsubishi Delica doesn't look a little like Richard Kind's sweet, sweet head.

Just tell me what you think.

By the way,

before we move on, I was perusing the Wikipedia page

for Turbo Teen.

Uh-huh.

Only good can come of this.

Continue.

And

under the section called Reception, I quote, in the Encyclopedia of American Anime and Television Shows, David Perlmutter writes, despite a basis in somewhat plausible science, it was not produced competently enough to make its premise believable.

David Pearlmutter, what we he turns his hands into tires.

What is the semi-plausible science?

He turns his junk into trunk.

David Pearlmutter, you got something to answer for, son.

Here's something from Michelle.

My dispute is with my father, Ken.

He refuses to try guacamole.

He's never eaten it, says it's gross, and he just knows he would hate it.

Wow.

The family has begged him to try it and promised that if he truly doesn't like it, we'll never bother him about it again.

Please order my dad to try guacamole, as I cannot bear the idea he would live an entire life and never know really good, fresh guacamole.

I agree that people like what they like,

but can a man make that argument if he's never tried the subject subject in question?

I submit he cannot.

What do you think, Jesse?

Can a daughter force her father to try guacamole?

I mean, John, I feel that as a native Californian and a millennial, I have to recuse myself from this conversation.

You have a guacamole tap in your house, don't you?

Yeah, exactly.

I have hot and cold running guacamole.

Every home in Los Angeles comes with a mocajete built-in,

the famous lava rock mortar and pestle.

You know those kind of soda machines that you find in a fast food restaurant with six spigots, you know, for your Fanta and your so-on and so forth.

That's right.

You're mistaken.

I have that, but for different colors of salsa.

Salsa Rojo, salsa verde.

All the varieties.

Yeah.

But on the other hand, guacamole especially.

Guacca salsa.

Have you ever had that?

That's like a tomatillo salsa with some avocado in it.

It's cool.

That sounds very good.

You know what?

I'll try it.

I'm young.

I'm not set in my ways yet.

Right.

Michelle's dad.

Look, guacamole is delicious.

But on the other hand, it's green and gross.

I mean, I could see how a person could grow up seeing only not-so-good guacamole

in various

chain restaurants or supermarkets and be like, I don't want to put that avocado snot on my toast.

I get it, but can you force someone to try something?

You know, one time in my life, in our life as

a human family, we were very, very, very fortunate to be offered free lodging in the city known as Venice, Italy.

And we went.

And if you ever have an opportunity to go to Venice, Italy,

and I hope that we'll all have an opportunity to go somewhere else soon in the not too distant future.

It's just one of the most, it's full of clichés, and it's just equally so special and specific and magical.

And in this city, there is a very famous dish called sardine and sour, which in the Venetian dialect means sardines in the flavor.

And these are very, very Venetian dish of sardines that are fried.

and then marinated for a long time in vinegar and pine nuts.

And they take on this gelatinous consistency and they look gross.

And I ordered them for the table the first night we got there.

We had just gotten off the airplane and went to a restaurant and I ordered them.

And I looked at them and I said to my son, who was a young teenager at the time, 14, this is a very classic Venetian dish.

I think we should try this.

And he looked at it and he said, that looks gross.

No, thank you.

And he was correct.

He was correct.

He was correct.

And I was very jet-lagged and a little giddy to be in this new place.

And I had this idea.

I'm like, son,

I used his name.

I don't call him son.

I said, would you take a bite if I gave you a 20 euro note that I just got out of the ATM at the airport?

Now, this made my wife extremely mad because she doesn't like to bribe children.

for curiosity, for experimentation, for life.

She was really, really offended by this.

And she was also really mad because I lied to protect myself.

Because the truth is, it wasn't a 20-euro note.

It was a 50-euro note.

I just went nuts.

I really wanted my son to try this fish.

You just bit in and locked on.

Yeah, I'm just like, this has to happen.

We're making a memory here.

And he looked at the 50-euro note and he's like, okay.

And we both tried it.

And it was gross.

I got to say.

I'm sure.

I mean, he earned his 50 euros.

That was a 50 euro bite for sure.

And later,

and he, that was the money that he got to spend in Venice, and he and he saved it and he held on to it until he blew it all on an extremely creepy harlequin mask at the end of the trip, which now hangs on his wall, making memories.

Yeah, you got to carry those nightmares with you.

I still feel that this was a good exchange.

I feel that, yes, one should encourage curiosity for its own sake.

But,

you know, some people just don't want to try a thing.

And part of their right as humans,

especially if they're an adult human, if they're 14 years old, or your father,

to start saying, it's just not.

I just don't want.

I just don't care for it.

I don't want to try it.

I don't want to try it.

Your father isn't a child.

Your father may have missed out on very good guacamole.

He certainly missed out on very bad guacamole.

But I think that it's okay for him to not try guacamole, for him to set that limit.

And I equally think that it's okay,

as two humans, to make a bargain,

pay your father to try guacamole.

Simple solution.

Pay your dad.

Now he's not 14.

I don't think...

20 or even 50 euros is going to do it for him.

Since he's avoided this his whole life, I don't know.

What do you think is a fair pay your dad to try guacamole price?

Yeah, I mean, you're also going to have to pay a tax for the fact that he's going to have to figure out how much what you're paying him is worth in American dollars.

But

off the top of my head, I mean, I think if I were a dad or possibly grandpa,

I would start very seriously considering abandoning my anti-guacamole principles around 100 euros.

Yeah.

You know, I know that as an adult with an adult parent, I am sometimes looking for an opportunity to help support my adult parent,

you know, to make some contribution to my adult parent's financial well-being in a way that doesn't suggest that they can't help themselves.

And, you know, if I slid mom a 100 euro note, which I definitely keep on hand,

I'd be glad to have the excuse.

100 Euros sounds fair to me, Michelle.

That's the price.

I mean, you have to consider this isn't just a matter of aversion to, you know, creamy vegetables.

I can understand, or an aversion to

the mild flavor of the avocado, or an aversion to

theoretically, but not practically foreign foods, or

an aversion to cilantro.

This is for your father a matter of principles.

So you have to pay him enough to abandon his principles.

We all have our purchasing point.

As a great man named Francis once said, my dad says everything's negotiable.

Here's the other reason.

Here's the other reason why you have to dig deep, Michelle.

Because when you say,

we've promised that if he truly doesn't like it, we will never bother bother him about it again, you and I and the world know that's a lie.

If he tries it and doesn't like it, you will bother him about it again.

So you got to front load the payment for all of the aggravation you are going to cause him after he violates his principle as an adult human being.

For all of the bugging you're going to try to get him to do it again.

But I just say, 100 euro a pop, go get a fresh 100 euro note from a European ATM if and when you can get one.

and the truth is my son and I made a memory that day we both ate that gelatinous fish and he got a creepy mask I don't see the problem yeah it's a lot better than if you just spent it on an IMAX movie that was the other option the IMAX IMAX movie about canals the IMAX in Venice is the best

Let's take a quick break.

We're going to hear from this week's partner.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfun.org/slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?

It's true.

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It was made in, made in.

But Made In isn't just for professional chefs, it's for home cooks too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with Made In cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable

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We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

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And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

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It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's...

griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware.

I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket and we have here a case from Julie.

My husband goes to bed before I do on weeknights.

Instead of saying good night, he's taken to saying bye.

I request an injunction on this sinister habit and ask he instead be ordered to say good night like a normal person.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

P.S., I volunteered with you many times during the Georgia runoffs.

It was so fun to see you on those calls, and I appreciate you and Zach keeping me politically involved.

Thank you so much, listener Julie.

And thank you again for listener Zach of those great Democrats at Somerville for roping me into some incredible Zoom rooms where we did a bunch of get-out-the-vote calls.

It's good to be politically involved no matter what your political position is.

But yeah, that is sinister to say bye instead instead of good night.

I was trying to think of a creepier thing to say.

Like goodbye forever.

It just feels like, you know,

I don't know.

I couldn't think of anything as creepy as bye.

So weird.

Goodbye.

I now away to the land of dreams.

Even that just feels like a cutesy act.

Do you know what I mean?

That feels like what a couple of Neil Gaiman lovers would say to each other before they go to bed.

Yeah, that's true.

Cute, cozy goth.

What about you, sleep, I'll watch?

What do you say when you say good night, Jesse, in your household to anyone?

What's like good night, sweet dreams, sleep tight?

In my family,

we all say to each other, good night and good luck in tribute.

In tribute to the great Edward R.

Morrow.

That's a great thing to say.

We sort of, our whole, honestly, our whole life is a tribute to the journalistic values of the Tiffany Network.

In my family, usually my wife, I will say good night to my wife.

She'll go to bed before me.

And she will say in response, good night.

Please don't stay up until 2 a.m.

trying to finish the terrible film adaptation of one of your favorite novels, Winter's Tale by Mark Helprin, that was created by a famous screenwriter, Akiva Goldsman.

His sole directorial effort, it cast a bunch of very high-powered stars and is really almost makes you hate the thing you love.

That's a terrible thing.

Do you ever read Winterstale, Jesse?

No, I haven't read Winter's Tale.

When over the winter in Maine, I was picking up my mother-in-law.

She was staying with us.

We were getting her out of the city.

That's part of why we were in Maine.

And she had gotten a book from the library, and it was Winterstale by Mark Helpern.

And I was like, that was one of my favorite books when I was in my 20s.

It's a beautiful, beautiful book.

I think it holds up.

I don't know.

I haven't read it since then, but I loved it.

And she said, oh, well, I really loved Charles Dickens.

And a person I respect said, of contemporary novels, this one is the only one you can really call Dickensian.

And I said, oh, yeah, well, I get it because it's a novel about class and social position.

It's got a cast of many people.

It's got a beautiful romance between an orphan and a woman who who is suffering of tuberculosis.

It has drama and melodrama.

I said, one thing that you may not, and she's like, oh, this sounds really great.

And I said, well, yeah, it's terrific.

I really remember enjoying it so much when I was in my 20s.

And it's so much about New York, too.

And I miss New York.

And then one thing, though,

I said to my mother-in-law, it has certain elements of magical realism in it.

And she was like, well, what do you mean?

I said, well,

the main character has a horse,

and they discover the horse can fly.

And at that moment, my mother-in-law got very silent, rolled down the window, and threw the book out into the snow.

That's not true.

But it's clear that she would turn.

I could hear her mind go, not for me, never mind.

Like, we had nothing.

Like, I love my mother-in-law, but this is so rare that she will take out a book that I was like, I'm excited that you're reading this.

I'd love to talk to you about it.

It's got a horse that can fly.

Funk.

Nope.

Anyway, Julie's husband, please say goodnight to your wife, Julie.

She deserves not to be freaked out before going to bed.

And unless and until he does so, Julie, you may take revenge by saying to him

what the great,

great, wonderful character Livia from iClaudius says to her son before he leaves her.

You may kiss me and take your leave.

Yes, I'm watching iClaudius again.

Don't ask me how this happened.

It's happening.

I'm doing it anyway.

Here's something from a listener who identifies himself as,

you know,

as soon as we get into the listeners giving

their own names,

we know we're getting in trouble here, but let's see what it is.

A listener who identifies himself as

this is an all caps, garden dog.

One word, all caps, garden dog.

My mom and dad have been married for 30 years.

They don't want to go to court, but I hope you will weigh in.

My mom is an essential worker at a hospital.

When the pandemic started, they started sleeping in separate rooms for obvious reasons.

Now that they have both been vaccinated, they're planning to sleep in the same room again.

But I heard both my parents say they actually like sleeping in different rooms.

They both go do stuff at night, like peeing.

Then no one can sleep.

Please tell them it is okay to sleep separately.

That is okay if they want to.

I suppose I could tell them.

Sincerely, Garden Dog.

I'm just disappointed that Garden Dog didn't sign the letter with

their famous

catchphrase, woof woof.

I can't believe I'm watching iClaudius again.

It just happened last night, Jesse.

My son, the one from the other story that I talked about.

Yeah.

Now, he's 15 now.

We watched iClaudius together at an age for him when it was wildly inappropriate and above his pay grade.

But he loves iClaudius.

And then,

you know, Max Fun Drive is coming up.

We'll talk about that in a minute.

But,

you know, a couple of Max Fun Drives ago, I was talking about iClaudius and watching it with my son and backed myself into a corner/slash dare that if we reached a certain membership level, Elliot Kalen and I, and then joined by Jordan Cowling, would do an iClaudius podcast called iPodius.

And I had to do a whole separate podcast, and I watched it again with my son.

I felt that was good for me.

I was good on iClaudius.

Then, just last night, my son says, I want to watch iClaudius again.

And what am I going to say?

No?

What am I going to say?

He's disappearing before my eyes.

We've got to keep making these memories.

Your son wants you to watch iClaudius with you.

You've got to sit down and watch iClaudius.

It's still great.

It's still great.

I asked him to pay me 50 euros, and he said, fine.

That was our deal.

No, I'd do it for nothing.

But the thing about iClaudius is that was the source of the maxim on Judge John Hodgman that it is okay for spouses to sleep in separate rooms.

I became fascinated with the idea of spouses sleeping in separate rooms because,

at least as

portrayed in the cardboard rec room replica of Rome that is the iClaudius set,

spouses in ancient Rome

around the turn of BCE to

AD or whatever, would sleep, they would have separate chambers, and it just seemed so relaxing.

And I said, you know, look,

you know, you deserve space when you sleep.

And

if you have the space for it and the means for it, I highly recommend a king-sized bed.

And if you have the space for it and the means for it, go full I Claudian

and get

separate king-size beds in separate villas that are connected by a beautiful reflecting pool.

That's the ideal way for a couple to sleep.

Should I order this married couple of 30 years to sleep in separate rooms?

I'm very torn by it, Jesse.

This has always been a thought experiment and a joke, but now it's real.

I don't take garden dogs' request lightly.

Woof, woof.

What do you think I should do?

I think you should order a reflecting pool.

If you're going to order anything,

the reflecting pool, to have the reflecting pool in between is ideal because that way you never wake your partner up when you go to reflect.

They both do stuff at night, like peeing and reflecting.

Yeah.

Yeah, you can pee into the pool.

I think you cannot order them to sleep in separate bedrooms.

I don't think that Garden Dog, despite their obvious authority on most matters,

has standing to ask you to order the parents to sleep in separate rooms.

But I think you could

order Garden Dog

to tell both parents,

You've both expressed to me that you like sleeping in separate rooms, and it does not reflect poorly on your love or your relationship to do so.

So if that seems like a good situation to you, you should consider it and know that you won't be judged.

I mean, look, Garden Dog's mom is an essential worker at a hospital.

And,

you know, I can't imagine

how much rest Garden Dog's mom needed.

Never mind the necessary isolation

from the family in order to not transmit anything that she might be bringing home.

And I can appreciate why garden dogs, mom, and dad, now that they are vaccinated, now that we're all starting to maybe begin to begin to begin to hope to feel

that we're going to be able to get back together someway, that we're going to be able to build a new and better normal, that we're going to be able to eat sweet and sour sardines in another place sometime,

that they might feel some obligation

to,

you know, get back together, an obligation to sleep in the same room when their preference might be to keep it going the way it's going.

And I think if there's one thing through this whole awful, tragic, unnecessary, painful experience of loss and trauma

that we can take away from it is do whatever you want.

Just do whatever you

do, whatever you need in order to make

your life

bearable for you.

I think if that is your guiding principle, Garden Dogs, Mom and Dad, and Garden Dog,

I think that Jesse is absolutely right.

Like, if they are feeling an obligation to rejoin the marital bed when, in fact, they sleep better in separate rooms, let them know.

Do whatever you want.

If in their hearts they kind of need to come back together again, even though there's going to be the peeing and the reflecting,

do what you need to do.

But take a moment.

I think one of the things we maybe got out of this, I hope, is a moment to really think about

what we value as a country, as a civilization, and just in our personal lives.

Like

what is important for me?

And to set some new guidelines.

in the personal realm at least of do what you need to do.

It's no big deal.

Nobody has to do anything.

What do you think about that, Jesse?

You know, during this past year, my father died.

Yeah.

And I've thought a number of times about a car ride that I took with my dad.

And it was in my

El Camino.

I've had two El Caminos.

This was my 82, I think.

And we were riding the El Camino, and I had-

Yeah,

I had on the stereo.

Only car named after a road.

Sorry.

Sorry, I'm interrupting your

probably heartbreaking story about your dad with some car talk jokes.

I apologize.

Please, I will step back.

I was driving my El Camino with my dad in the passenger seat, and I had on

the stereo an album called The Dude by a rapper named Devin the Dude.

And I was just thinking about this earlier today as I was listening to this album.

This CD is like the CD that's in my car for when something's wrong with my Bluetooth.

And

I was listening to this song called Do What You Want to Do by Devin.

And Devin is a rapper who raps almost exclusively about

marijuana cigarettes and kissing and hugging.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I understand.

But he's also a real sweetheart.

Two things that are legal in many states now.

Yeah.

And,

you know, the theme of that song, which is a really wonderful song, is

basically do what you want, you're grown.

And in fact, the chorus as do what you want, you're grown, you make decisions on your own.

No one will suffer but you, so do what you want to do.

I'm leaving out a few profanities, profanities, but

that's it, right?

And my dad, who, you know, my dad was not particularly a hip-hop fan.

He was probably 65 years old, something like that at this point, you know.

He turned to me and he said, I left out some profanities before, but you'll have to bleep this one, Jennifer.

He turned to me and he said, you know, Jesse, this is a good song.

And every time I hear that song, I think of my dad saying

what he said about it.

but I also think of this kind of received wisdom from my dad, which was, you know, my dad was certainly not someone who was dismissive of others.

My dad was a professional organizer and activist his entire life.

You know, he was an organizer.

He really deeply cared about others.

But I think the thing that ultimately resonated for him about that song

was that he had had some terms of his life dictated

by forces that he could not control, his parents,

his time in the Navy,

and so forth.

And I think that a big part of him liberating himself to be happy was giving himself permission to make the choices that he wanted to make for him and his life.

And that doesn't have to be a matter of not being caring.

So

I'm very grateful to him to have turned and said that goofy thing to me as this

wonderful, but slightly goofy song played.

And so

if you're out there and you're a person comfortable with immense amounts of profanity,

I really recommend that song.

It's the song that I've actually found myself turning to for comfort

when I have been really sad over the past year, which has been plenty of times.

And

it reminds me of my dad and him turning to me and saying that.

So

it's wonderful advice in almost any situation, as long as you're the kind of person who by default considers others.

Well, that's the thing.

I mean,

I would argue that

you don't like one of the things that we might have thought before this experience is you have to be like Michelle's dad Ken

of a certain age to earn the right to say I want to do this.

I don't want to do this.

I know what I want to do with my life and I don't want to be pushed around by external forces or even the expectations that I've put on myself, you know?

But you don't have to be an older guy to say, no, I'm not going to eat that guacamole unless you give me 100 euros.

Instead of the own terms of your life.

It's the only one you have.

You create a life of meaning for yourself by taking a moment to check in with what is really meaningful to you.

And when you do, that is not inconsistent with being caring for others.

If anything, I think that it enhances caring for others because you appreciate that everyone is doing their own math in terms of what do I got to get paid to eat this guacamole, to do this thing that I don't want to do, and how do I make sure that I do the things enough, that I have enough time in my life to do the things that I do want to do.

And if you also want a song that has less swear words in it, but has a similar message, there's also Do What You Like by Digital Underground.

Let's take a quick break.

When we come back, we turn,

for expert opinion, to a famous bassoonist.

That's right.

The only way

we could possibly deliver on this is if it turns out that

George Clooney plays the bassoon on this side.

We'll be back in just a minute.

Stick around and find out.

Yeah.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Here's a case from Matt.

My wife and I have a dispute, which, to my surprise, has not been settled on your podcast.

She claims vanilla is the absence of flavor.

What?

E.G., you are so vanilla.

I say it is a flavor and one of the best flavors.

Now,

Jesse, I think it was a couple of times ago that I was like, you know what?

We can't let our podcast become simply a fan podcast for the podcast, The Dough Boys.

Yeah, I can't.

Obviously, are they more successful than us?

Yes.

Obviously, yes.

Are they more talented than us?

Probably.

Well, here's the thing.

I think they're like, like all

they're like a virus.

They just get in my head and I just want to listen to those Doughboys.

Like a good kind of virus where you want to spread it around.

You want to give the Doughboys virus to people because I have to say, you know, there's very little that has given me as much comfort as listening to these two guys, Mike Mitchell and Nick Weiger, review

chain restaurants and fast food restaurants

badly

and yell at each other and then love each other.

It's just one of the greatest chemistries of all time.

And of course, in the Doughboys expanded universe, you know a couple of things.

Mike Mitchell is from Quincy, Massachusetts.

Nick Weiger is a Southern California surfer dude who's a little bit of a heat seeker.

He likes spicy food.

He also famously, famously played bassoon in his high school band.

That's why I nicknamed him Double Read.

And gets very angry when people say that vanilla is the absence of flavor.

Nick Weiger opens the Doughboys with a historical take on whatever they're reviewing that day.

I got him to do a little clip here on vanilla for us.

The vanilla plant, native to South and Central America, is painstakingly hand-pollinated by growers.

And according to a 2017 Smithsonian magazine piece, natural vanilla sells for about $300 a pound.

So why is this expensive exotic bean also considered boring?

It turns out, vanilla as slang for plain didn't come into common usage in the U.S.

until after the Sexual Revolution, when 70s swingers used the word to mock conventional sex.

Vanilla, then, meant conventional or default, not plain.

Over time, the sexual association faded and vanilla became a generality for all things dull.

But, and this is key, the food industry still makes a distinction.

Note the separation between plain and vanilla when it comes to, say, almond milk or yogurt.

Vanilla may be conventional, but it is not synonymous with plain.

Vanilla is a flavor.

I have never been able to decide all these years.

And, you know, Nick and Mike are both,

I consider them both actual friends of mine, and I love them both.

And while I've known Mike longer, I think we can all agree that I'm probably more of a Wagger.

But I have never been able to decide whether I think Nick does a great job of those complicated written pieces or a bad job.

There was a little some, there's a little, and I think Weiger will appreciate this.

There was a little something AI about what was going on there.

Do you know what I mean?

He has a vaguely text-to-speech quality, Nick Weiger.

It feels

like Nick wrote that.

I, you know, Nick Weiger is not the only beloved celebrity podcaster who loves vanilla the flavor.

Our friend friend Jimmy Pardo from Never Not Funny has been on record for 15 years on his show that his favorite flavor of ice cream is vanilla, and that vanilla is a flavor.

And in fact, before vanilla ice cream existed, before vanilla became widely available enough to be the default flavor of ice cream, ice cream had a basic dairy milky flavor.

Is that true?

Yeah, and that flavor is different from the flavor of vanilla.

I mean, Jennifer Marmor is nodding right now, and the reason is that she and I are both ice cream enthusiasts who make ice cream.

So she knows there's a big difference.

That's a sweet cream.

Yeah, there's a big difference between sweet cream ice cream and vanilla ice cream, and they're both wonderful.

Sweet cream is plain ice cream without vanilla.

Just it's just unflavored ice cream.

Is that correct, Jennifer Marmor?

Yeah.

I used to get that.

Got some sugar.

Yeah, no, right.

I mean, I I used to get that at JP Licks in Massachusetts, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

That was some good stuff.

But vanilla is.

Look, I'll tell you one thing.

There's only one podcaster in Brooklyn, and he also loves vanilla.

That's me.

And I'll say one other thing to Matt and Matt's wife.

It doesn't take long on the vanilla Wikipedia page to appreciate that this is an exotic being with a long and, I mean, a long and problematic history that is prized throughout the world because it only comes from a single plant, the vanilla orchid, that is very difficult to pollinate.

It has to be hand-pollinated even to this day.

And when you try to say that vanilla is nothing, then you're erasing Edmund Albius, the black man, who at the age of 12, when he was a boy, invented a more efficient way to hand-pollinate the vanilla orchid in 1841 that is still used today, thus making the worldwide vanilla bean trade possible.

His discovery was so significant that the French white botanist Jean-Michel Claude Richard tried to steal credit for Albius' pollination technique for years.

Took credit, tried to steal the credit for this technique.

And only recently has Edmund Albius' botanical innovation been properly credited to him.

So, Matt's wife, do not erase Edmund Albius and this history just because

your imagination is bland.

Bland like a flavorless ice cream.

Sweet cream, bland imagination.

You know, John, I like complicated ice creams, and I love all ice cream.

But there's a part of me that thinks at any moment a switch could flip in my head, and I'll just turn into the grandpa from Mad Men eating vanilla ice cream with salt on it.

I forgot about that.

I'm going to do that tonight.

I think it was chocolate ice cream, but it's

it.

Yeah.

Well, then Jesse just invented a new thing.

Oh,

vanilla ice cream with some big old flakes of salt?

I may never come back.

That may be it for me.

I'm retiring.

I love a malted milk ice cream, too.

Anyway, let's get, let's, this is not ice cream talk any more than it's El Camino talk.

Did you get any letters this week that were not disputes?

And specifically, did you get any letters that were, I don't know, photographs of young people in 1948 eating Cheez-Its?

Yes, of course I did.

Of course I did.

But before we get to that, I want to say thank you to the many, many, many listeners who wrote in regarding pineapple on pizza, which I had said probably started in Hawaii.

But in fact, the blame lies in Canada.

Listener Jen wrote in to say, I'm sure you've heard from approximately

two, I don't know how to say this number, 230-948-230-98 people

about pineapple on pizza.

So delicious, according to ListenerGen, yet I feel I would be remiss if I didn't send along John Green's excellent episode of the Anthropocene Reviewed, which is another podcast.

You know what?

Here at Maximum Fun, we spread it around.

Different, that's on

WNYC podcast.

We love podcasts.

We love podcasters.

John Green got there first.

He explained the whole origin of pineapple on pizza coming from Greek immigrants living in Canada.

Go take a listen at wnyc.org, my local in Brooklyn, New York public radio station.

Now, we also heard from Kelly about Cheez-Its.

Jesse, she shared a photo of her dad.

This is a photo of her dad at his second birthday in 1948,

pictured

looking at his cake, but on the table as well, two 1948-era boxes of Cheez-Its.

And I want you to take a look at this kid and how happy he is.

1948.

This kid, you never seen

a more

delighted look on a child's face as he sits literally in front of a white picket fence.

A big cake with two candles on it and a box of cheese that's being raided by, I believe,

his sister.

His sister.

Yeah.

His sister, Christine.

Kelly, who wrote in, does not know who the incredibly cool kid who's standing behind the two of them, who's just wearing pants, suspenders, and no shirt is.

That's an incredible look.

I gotta be honest with you, I think that those pants are not held up by suspenders.

I think those are just laces.

I think those pants are laced up by the suspender buttons.

Well,

it's an incredible moment in time here in the very, very small town of Endicott, Washington in Whitman County.

Current population 305, then population about 600, 1948.

Jesse, look at this kid.

Can you guess what this kid's name is?

I can.

I have no guess.

Jimmy James.

The man's so nice, they named him twice.

Just like Stephen Roots' character on news radio.

But this guy, this kid is owning the name Jimmy James so hard in this photo.

And very sadly, I have to say, I asked because I was like, is your father still living?

Could we get a photo of him eating some Cheez-Its today?

Because Cheez-Its are better than Cheez Nips.

That's what started this whole thing.

And Kelly wrote back to say, very sadly, Jimmy James died unexpectedly of a heart attack at the age of 40, 1988.

And she sent a photo of him

depicting him in what she describes as, quote, in peak manhood.

And I have to say,

I totally agree with her.

Jimmy James killed it as a two-year-old.

Jimmy James killed it in.

peak manhood.

Look at those Cheez-Its cheeks.

What a great guy.

What an incredible tie.

What an incredible jacket.

All these photos.

There's a smirk on his face.

This guy was a regular Christian Slater.

I don't know.

I don't know what card he looks like, but I'll tell you something, Jesse, that you're going to not deny.

Stephen Root, the actor who plays Jimmy James, P.T.

Cruiser.

Full stop.

You know it's true.

Sure.

In any case,

all these photos will be available over at the Judge John Hodgman page at maximumfund.org,

where you will find news news of upcoming Max Fun drives.

Just a little tease.

You can also go and subscribe, if you will, please, to the Judge John Hodgman Instagram account at Instagram.com slash JudgeJohnHodgman, if you're an Instagram user.

It would be lovely.

If you wanted to not only like any of these photos, because they're very likable, but you could also save them or send them to a friend or comment in more than four words.

Guess what?

I guess I've been told that helps with the algorithm.

Anyway, go check out the incredible Jimmy James over there.

You may notice in the corner of one of the photos, there's a bit of a handwritten card, and I asked Listener Kelly what that was.

And she said that it was a poem that accompanied a gift that Jimmy James's grandmother gave him for his, for this second birthday.

And maybe, just maybe,

I will read this poem as a surprise post-credit sequence after the episode.

But meanwhile, Jesse, is the docket clear?

It is.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is the wonderful Jennifer Marmer.

You can follow us on Twitter at Hodgman and at Jesse Thorne.

We are, as John mentioned, on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your JudgeJohn Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJ Ho, and check out the Maximum Fun subreddit, maximumfun.reddit.com to discuss this episode.

We need your cases today and every day.

Go to maximumfun.org/slash JJ Hoe or just email them to hodgman at maximumfun.org.

And we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Surprise post-credit sequence.

I'm sure you're surprised.

No, you're not.

This is now, the post-credit sequence is now a fixture of the Judge John Hodgman podcast universe, the JJ Hoe P.U.

I've now made new homework for myself.

Good job, Hodgman.

Anyway,

I'm very happy to join you here after the credits for a little extra content, because what I have for you is the poem,

as my father-in-law pronounces it, the poem

that Jimmy James's grandmother, Kelly's great-grandmother,

wrote to accompany her gift to Jimmy James on his second birthday

that he enjoyed.

I don't think he probably read it himself.

It was probably read to him while he was stuffing his face with cheese-its.

A week ago it came to me,

soon two years old, our James will be.

I'll make a sweater like his eyes, blue as Whitman County skies.

I knitted early, I knitted late.

I got it done at any rate.

Pickles not made and fruit not canned, dust grew thick on every hand, and still I purled and knit and cabled, all other work for the time was tabled.

I know this verse is pretty hammy, but it comes with lots of love from Grammy.

Oh man,

good job, Grammy James.

God, or whoever speed both of you, Cheese of Cheeks and Grammy James.

That was a beautiful poem.

And I, Jimmy James, I hope you wore that sweater because those pickles did not get made and that fruit did not get canned.

Talk to you next time.

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