The Crumble One

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket.

And with me, as always,

is Southeastern Canada's number one humorist, Judge John Hodgman.

Oh, you take that crown away from the king, the current reigning monarch

of main humorists and frankly, funny comedians.

the main comedian bob marley not the not not the deceased reggae performer you ever see bob marley perform joel yes i have yeah very funny very funny guy this is not bob marley redemption song no uh

two little birds no no no

birds are there

some a certain number of birds but i'll tell you what

If and when we get to go back to the Blue Hill Fair

and Bob Marley is performing comedy at the Blue Hill Fair over Labor Day weekend,

every little thing will be all right.

Because Jesse,

I saw Bob Marley on the bill and I'm like, I got to do my comedy research, as David Reese would say.

I've heard about this guy a lot.

I'm going to have to go watch him.

And he killed, he's really, really funny.

He's an incredibly talented stand-up comedian.

And there are not many comedians who can stand on stage and hold a crowd filling that grandstand when between the stage and the grandstand is about 100 feet of ox pull track.

It was like empty space.

It was incredible.

Yeah.

The only other act I've ever seen hold the crowd that hard

and knock the shed down at the Blue Hill Fair, of course, is the George Stevens Academy jazz band directed by Mr.

O, right, Joel?

Correct.

Yeah.

Who's a member, by the way, of the Night and Day Trio.

Yes, he is.

Performed at the state theater with us back in the before times.

I was going to guess En Vogue, but not this time.

Yeah.

No, one of the differences, Mr.

O, he's going to get it.

Yeah.

Mr.

O's incredible.

Let's get into some justice.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Not yet, because I was just going to say, here I am, as always, in the solar-powered studios of WERU in Orland, Maine.

But not as always.

This is our last Rollick and Docket from the wintertime, centertime season.

I'm saying farewell to Joel Mann today

as I return to my home in Brooklyn, New York, and we will continue, obviously, with the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast there.

Joel, I'll see you again in the future, obviously, but it's been a pleasure to be here with you at WERU.

It'll be a lonely, dark, cold place when you leave.

It is with me here.

That's the problem.

But real quick, Jesse, Market report.

I've talked a lot about what you can find at the trade wins, but I don't give enough shout-outs to the Blue Hill Co-op.

I found some incredible, I didn't know that they would have Shaoxing cooking wine there, so I get to make my beef with broccoli tonight.

But also, I got myself an egg salad sandwich because I had been eyeing their egg salad sandwiches at their deli department there at the Blue Hill Co-op.

And I had no reason to get one, but this time I decided to splurge and celebrate with an egg salad sandwich, which I ate alone in the parking lot in my car, because I got some good news that I cannot share yet

you, Jesse, or you, Jennifer, or you, Joel, or anybody.

But it is some very, very good, somewhat egg salad sandwich-related news.

And keep an ear to the internet.

And when I can tell you about it, I will.

And the last thing I will say, Joel, is I made another batch of cowboy crackers for you.

I see them right here.

Yeah, because I know you found the last batch underwhelming.

I'm kind of worried now.

And because you said it was not spicy enough.

And I can't leave Maine without whelming Joel Mann at least once.

All right, so Mole Man, these cowboy crackers, they're regular saltines.

I followed the Southern Living magazine recipe,

but I doubled all the spices.

I doubled the garlic.

I doubled the onion powder.

I doubled the ranch powder.

And I, three and a half, and the previous recipe was one and a half tablespoons of, and I put Aleppo peppers, Aleppo pepper flakes.

This is one and a half tablespoons of regular McCormick flakes, a tablespoon of Aleppo flakes, and another tablespoon of Goju Chang Korean red pepper flakes.

Just looking at them, I think you're trying to kill me.

No,

this is, I know that you are an intense person, so I made an intense cracker for an intense man.

Cheers to you.

I'm going to enjoy one as well.

Sorry, people with me, Sophie.

Here we go.

Wow.

that's hot.

Now you're talking.

Whoa.

I think you're making.

I think you're.

I think you're making it.

No, no.

The top of my head starts to pool up water.

No.

That's when it's hot enough.

I just had it.

It's fine.

It's hot.

It's good.

It's better, though, I think.

Much better.

Yeah.

This is better.

Good job.

Better stuff.

Thank you.

Thank you, Joel.

You did a good job, too.

All right.

Now, let's move forward.

Here's a case from Maggie in Saunderstown,

Rhode Island.

Is it named after, John?

You're an expert on Rhode Island.

Yeah.

Is that named after George Saunders?

It absolutely is.

Thank God.

I think we should name all our towns.

Every state at minimum should have one town named after George Saunders, the great George Saunders.

Yeah, George Saunders, by the way, Plug, got a new book out called A Swim in a Pond in the Rain,

in which four Russians give a masterclass on writing, reading, and life.

And George Saunders just, it's like a read-along, like you read Chekhov's short stories along with George Saunders in this book my wife is reading it and loves it George is the greatest if anyone out there hasn't read George Saunders

it's much better than this podcast it is wow don't waste your time with this show when you could be reading George when you could be reading Civil Warland and Bad Decline

that's that should be your priority brain dead megaphone that should be your priority George Saunders one of the greatest Americans audiobook of Lincoln and the Bardo features

Judge John Hodgman, a friend of the show,

Nick Offerman, among many, a cast of many, and not me.

Yeah.

Nick Offerman gets it.

Nick Offerman gets it.

He's always going to get it.

With Read George Saunders.

This time and every time.

This original subtitle of the In Vogue song?

You're Never Gonna Get It in Read George Saunders.

It's for a little known fact.

Anyway, Maggie asks, my husband Brendan does not want to to live in a haunted house.

We're shopping for our first home and have our eye on the white mountains of New Hampshire and the surrounding areas over the border in Maine.

I've always loved the idea of owning a house at least a century old with lots of character and history.

While Brendan isn't opposed to the house being older, he's concerned about the potential that ghosts might live with us.

Uh-oh.

I would be thrilled if there was paranormal activity in my home.

I see it as a bonus.

Please tell my husband that purchasing a 100-plus year-old New England farmhouse with ghosts included is not only reasonable, but could lead to some great experiences for the next stage of our lives.

Jesse, you believe in ghosts?

No.

What do you think I am?

Mike Mitchell?

I don't want to.

All right, let me just put the kaibosh on any Dough Boys references today.

Yeah.

Doughboys, wonderful boys, Mike Mitchell and Nick Double Reed Weiger.

Love them.

Love the podcast.

But Jesse Thorne, how long have we been doing this podcast?

More than 10 years.

11 years, something like that?

Yeah.

Jennifer Marmer, check the records.

How many times have we appeared on Good Morning America?

Checking

zero.

Zero times.

And the Doughboys were on Good Morning America this morning.

No more talk about them.

They're getting all the attention they need.

Joel, do you believe in ghosts?

No.

No.

Jennifer, do you believe in ghosts?

I'm open to it.

You're open to it?

My grandma's house supposedly had ghosts, and she and my mom and aunt have very compelling stories about it.

But

I don't believe it, but I believe them.

I believe my mom.

I like your take, Jennifer Marmor, because

I'm like Maggie.

I'm open to it.

I think Jennifer Marmor's mom and grandma and aunt are a pack of liars.

Oh, no.

Who are you going to call when you're...

Especially Jennifer Marmor's mom, who's our commercial real estate agent.

Yeah, but

that means she's.

Look, if you're a commercial real estate agent and you believe in ghosts,

then you have an extra ethical responsibility to warn your clients away from ghost houses, aka haunted houses.

Haunted boba shops in her case.

But I'll tell you what, I'm with Maggie.

I would love for there to be ghosts because the truth is, if there are ghosts, then there might be something akin to an afterlife.

And unlike Bigfoots and Yetis and Nessis and other cryptids,

which I think are entirely plausible that there could be creatures that we have not discovered yet on this earth, check out the history of the okapi, y'all.

Ghosts, to me, I just would love it if they were real because I would rather not believe what I ultimately, I think, have come

slowly and deeply believe that when we pass away, that's it.

We don't get to hang around in Civil War-era clothes in a house as ectoplasm.

That's it.

I guess what I'm saying is Brendan doesn't really have much to worry about because I don't think there are ghosts.

But I wish there were.

I think what they really have to worry about is that 100-year-old house.

in the white mountains of New Hampshire or Maine.

I'll tell you something.

I'm going to miss a a lot about living up here in Maine.

This is the longest I've ever spent in Maine.

I love it.

I have no internal desire to return to reality.

This is it for me.

But I have a family that has told me that I have to go with them back to Brooklyn, New York, and I love them.

But one thing I will not miss is being in a house is just.

You understand, Jesse, because you live in Los Angeles in a house.

A house is just homework.

It's just chores.

You have to shovel.

We have to shovel the snow.

You don't have snow, obviously, but you know, this is what we were talking about in the podcast the other week.

It was like snow shoveling.

You got to make sure that

everything works.

You got to make sure that the furnace is working.

You got to make sure you can't leave a thing open and have rain come in.

It's just work

compared to the condominium in which I live, which is a glorified dorm room.

You're going to get a lot of work up there in the White Mountains, Maggie and Brendan, keeping yourself warm in a hundred-year-old house.

I'll tell you what, right, Joel?

Absolutely.

That's right.

Wood stove or pellet stove?

I would go with a pellet because you don't want spiders in.

Yeah, but what if your electricity goes out?

You turn the generator on.

Yeah, that's what that's my advice right there.

John, if the electricity goes out, you just huddle with the spiders.

Spiders are not, you know, I don't know what it's like in California where the spiders might be cute and cuddly.

You don't want to huddle with the spiders in Maine or New Hampshire.

Here's what you're going to do:

you're going to move into that 100-year-old house, Brendan.

You're not going to have anything to worry about

because I don't think that there are ghosts.

And if there are, it's going to be an exciting distraction from the endless nights of dark and cold that are going to become your life.

You're going to have fun with those ghosts.

Absolutely invest in a generator.

Your power will go out.

When that generator kicks in, you're going to be like, ooh, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened in my life.

I get to have light.

Scare the ghosts away.

But you will also want to invest in an ectoplasmic containment unit like they had in the basement of the firehouse and ghostbusters.

Don't tell the EPA about it.

In New Hampshire, they'll look the other way, trust me.

New Hampshire looks the other way at everything.

New Hampshire is so busy looking the other way that it never sees a thing.

In Maine, you might have to fill out a form.

But in New Hampshire, you can have an ectoplasmic containment unit down there in the basement.

You'll never get in trouble, just in case, in case they're ghosts.

You know, I visited a friend of Judge John Hodgman and mine and yours named Jenny in New York City.

Yeah.

And I went up into her apartment,

very nice apartment, very tasteful apartment.

Looked out the window.

What do you think I saw?

Ghost.

No, the cot dang fire station from Ghostbusters.

The gold derned fire station from Ghostbusters in which Annie Potts worked?

The very one.

Now that's a picture window.

You know what I mean?

That's a room with a view.

You look out, you see the golderned fire station from Ghostbusters?

Thunder turtles, that's a view.

Jason, let me tell you one thing about ghosts.

One last thing.

This is a little ghost story.

So settle in.

Jennifer Marmor, put in some spooky sounds.

Thank you.

Many years ago,

when I was actively writing and publishing books, might happen again, I don't know.

I was having dinner with my editor, Brian Tarte, who had just bought a very old house in the country.

And he was afraid of those ghosts.

So who was he going to call?

The psychic.

He was afraid his house would be haunted.

And he published a very famous psychic who wrote books about psychicism.

So he called this person who was a woman.

And he said, I am concerned that my house might be haunted.

And she said, where is it?

And he told her the name of the town and the address.

There was a pause on the line.

And she said,

it's fine.

And he said, what do you mean?

She said, no ghosts.

He said, what?

She said, it's not haunted.

He said, don't you want to come up and visit the house?

She said, no.

She said, you can just tell me on the phone?

And she said, yes.

I'm psychic, Brian.

End of story.

Case closed.

Case closed.

Here's something from Reyna.

I seek a ruling against my boyfriend, Sam.

The other day, I was putting some hot sauce on my pizza when Sam tried to insinuate insinuate that I was technically eating pineapple on pizza since the hot sauce has pineapple juice in it.

First of all, I would never ruin a pizza by eating it with pineapples.

Second, this cannot possibly count as pineapple on pizza because it's just pineapple juice in a condiment and not the fruit itself.

Another thing, it's really loosely pineapple flavored.

It's technically al pastor.

Please tell Sam he is wrong.

Otherwise, I owe him a pineapple pizza with real fruit cry face emoji.

I never realized until this moment that looking at the script that you can actually italicize emojis.

I didn't know you could do that.

Not only is that cry face emoji sad because of pineapple pizza, which is sad,

but it's italicized.

You can italicize emojis.

Good to know.

So this hot sauce is called a serrano piña alpastor-ish

sauce.

That's the name of the sauce.

Right.

And alpastor, for those who do not know, Jesse, you could probably explain what alpastor means.

It's a type of taco meat that is cooked on a spit in a Middle Eastern style

via Mexico.

So

Middle Eastern cookery made its way to Mexico and turned into this pork that's cooked on a spit with slices of pineapple and spicy stuff.

Right.

And the pineapple is part of that marinade that makes it al pastor-ish, as it were.

Yes, pineapple is part of many marinades, not just for its flavor, but also because it is a natural tenderizer.

You took the pineapple right out of my mouth.

And I say thank you, Jesse, because I like pineapple fine, but I don't care for it on pizza.

Joel, do you like pineapple on pizza?

Absolutely.

You do?

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

You're in trouble now.

Send your letters to me and I'll send them to Joel.

Oh, I'll tell you, pineapple on pizza is very controversial.

I guess it's a Hawaiian thing, right, Jesse?

Is that where pineapple on pizza comes from?

West coast by a Hawaiian pizza.

If you told me it was Hawaiian, I would believe you, given that Hawaii was transformed by colonizers into essentially a pineapple factory in the 19th century.

Well, I could have Googled it, but I didn't.

There's a great book about Hawaii and that history by our friend Sarah Vowell called Unfamiliar Fishes.

I've read it.

Maybe I remembered something.

Oh, great book.

Why not listen to the Sound of Young America interview that I did with her about that very book at a church?

That's a great idea.

That's a great idea.

It's got to be in the archives at maximumfund.org.

Search up Sarah Vowell with two L's.

Normally do not use Facebook.

I know that we have a very active fan community in Facebook, and I'm a member of that group, and I will dip in from time to time to thank people for being engaged.

I know that that's where we search for and source our

episode titles when we're doing live litigant cases, which are coming back, by the way.

And I love everybody who's on Facebook.

For me, it's just,

that's just not where I live most of the time.

However, there is a,

where I live some of the time is Maine.

And there is a Facebook group for a community here in Maine, the community in which I live, in which we trade news about whether that pothole will destroy your car or not.

Real folksy stuff.

When's Bob Marley coming to town, that kind of thing.

And while I was joining that group, I joined a little group

of aficionados of New Haven-style pizza, of which I am one.

New Haven, Connecticut claims not only to be the birthplace of Yale University, but also claims to be the birthplace of the hamburger at Louis' Lunch.

Not probably not true.

And the greatest pizza in the world

there on Wooster Street, Sally's and Pepe's.

And I would say probably true.

Really, really, really good, thin, delicious pizza.

Frank Peppy's in particular is famous for their white clam pizza.

I enjoy it very much.

Very, very.

One could get into it.

One could get into it.

And I do.

In fact, they don't even call it pizza there.

They call it a pizza.

It's one word, A-P-I-Z-Z-A, or a beats, a beats.

So I joined this group of New Haven a pizza-style pizza aficionados,

and it's driving me up a tree, frankly, because

for every post about

the road quality in the town where I spend part of my time in Maine and or

wood stoves that are available for $25 or whatever, I get like 35 posts from this New Haven Pizza Group.

They just don't stop talking about it.

It's making me feel sick to my stomach about pizza, which I don't want to feel.

It's too much a pizza.

Stop, slow it down.

Irv Pinski, I love you.

Slow your role in that group.

It's too much.

And I would say 75 to 80% of them the past month have been jokes about how terrible pineapple is on pizza.

It's like a sin to the New Haven A Pizza group.

They're so mad about it.

And I would say once a day, someone reposts the same video of how to eat pizza with pineapple on it.

And it shows a person cutting up a whole pizza that looks very delicious and it has pineapple on it.

And as soon as they finish cutting it up, they walk it over to the garbage and throw it in the trash.

That's the video.

Ha ha.

People are mad about it.

And I say, what I always say on this podcast is post less, and people like what they like.

I don't think there's anything wrong with liking pizza.

I cannot look Joel the Mole Man man in the eye through the glass

if I hated pineapple and pizza the way these people in the New Haven Pizza Group hate pineapple and pizza.

It's fine.

You like what you like.

But the question, Jesse Thorne, to you is:

A, does this count as pineapple and pizza?

This Al Pastor hot sauce?

B, should this sauce be on pizza?

Because I'm not sure about that.

A, no, of course this isn't pineapple and pizza.

Okay.

Among other things,

our writer inner Reina

sent a picture of the ingredients

on this.

Yep.

In order of appearance, fermented serrano peppers,

water,

vinegar,

Onion.

Yep.

Pineapple juice.

Yep.

It is not even one of the first one, two, three, four ingredients.

Right.

Pineapple juice appears in this, but it is a hot sauce.

All hot sauces.

I don't mean to insult any hot sauce aficionados, of which I'm sure there are thousands listening to this podcast.

Yep.

But all hot sauces are basically just a combination of spiciness and vinegar.

Like,

there's little changes around the edges, but basically it's a thing to make your food taste vinegarier and spicier.

And that's what this is.

This is not a pineapple thing.

It's a thing that has a tiny bit of pineapple so that a small hot sauce bottler can get reviewed on hot sauce blogs.

Okay.

Would you put an alpastor style sauce on your pizza?

I personally wouldn't, but I don't have a problem with someone doing that.

I mean, there's people that love to put hot sauce on everything.

That's true.

And it makes perfect sense to me.

Now, I will say this,

John?

Yeah.

Putting al pastor on pizza sounds kind of good to me.

There you go.

You're going to get in trouble with the New Haven Pizza Group, but I think some Al Pastor pizza would be pretty good.

And I don't like pineapple pizzas, so.

Yeah, you don't like it?

That's fine.

Joel, you ever put hot sauce on your pizza?

No, red pepper flakes.

Red pepper flakes.

Oh, I forgot to mention, also in the cowboy crackers that I made for you, I would say two teaspoons of the hot sauce that my son made with the red peppers from the Shaws grocery store up on the high street in Ellsworth.

I'm going to eat another one right now.

Good.

Okay, maybe mute yourself this time.

Reyna, fear not.

This is not pineapple on pizza.

This is your own weird thing that you like on pizza.

I don't think I would put this hot sauce.

I like a hot sauce on pizza.

I don't think I would do this, but maybe I'll try.

And by the way, Sam, Reyna's boyfriend, you're wrong.

However, it's fine that you like pineapple on pizza.

Reyna, I think you should buy Sam a pineapple pizza just for fun.

Just be nice to each other.

And you know one last thing I'll say?

You know what is saucy, aside from this sauce, Jesse?

You know what's saucy?

What's that?

This little ceramic frog they have posing next to the sauce.

Look at that little frog.

Got their little hand under their chin in a fairly seductive pose.

We'll put that up on the Instagram page at JudgeJohn Hodgman.

Frog's going, hey, Rivet.

It's the sound of frogs.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partner.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

John, have you been eating off your made-in

plates and bowls lately?

Are you talking about my world-famous entree bowls?

Yeah, I'm talking about entree bowls, but you know what?

It's okay to put a more voluminous

appetizer into those bowls.

I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you what.

I've got made in regular plates.

I've got made in salad plates.

I've got made in regular bowls.

And then I got these entree bowls.

And you know, I got the entree bowls.

I specifically asked for them for the holidays, for my wife was a whole human being in her own right because

Our children grew up and moved away.

And that means all we do is eat dinner in front of the television.

And if you're sitting on a couch, there's no better way to eat your meal than out of an entree bowl.

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I was on that show, and you know, the first thing that happened when

I got on set was people said to me, what a great outfit.

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

It's our final rollicking docket show

from Maine and also Los Angeles.

We're clearing the docket and we have a case here from Amanda of Hopkinton, Massachusetts.

Another town in New England.

During the pandemic, my husband TJ has taken to self-soothing by going through his old 1980s and 1990s nostalgia items.

These include G.I.

Joe's, mixtapes, and baseball cards.

While going through cards with our 10-year-old son, my husband discovered that somehow our child obtained a Pat Mahomes rookie card that is apparently worth hundreds of dollars.

When asked how he got this card, our son reported a friend gave it to him in second grade.

He can't remember who.

My husband insists this card was legally obtained according to the rules of elementary school recess and that it is ours to sell.

I insist the card must be held on to so that it can be returned to the rightful owner's parents when they discover the mistake.

I respectfully request that the judge rule my husband cannot sell this card, or at least cannot sell it until he has sold his own garbage pail kid card.

Are you kidding me?

That he recently found in his collection that is apparently worth much, much more.

Now, to be clear, the Are You Kidding Me aside, that is from Amanda in Hopkinton, Massachusetts.

You would never say something like that about an original series, Adam Baum.

Right.

That's a valuable garbage pail kid.

Absolutely.

I looked it up.

Amanda said in a photo of the garbage pail kid, kid, Adam Baum,

that TJ, her husband, has been self-soothing with recently, gross.

Nostalgia, I get it.

This is okay time, I think.

I've been reading some old comic books.

It's a hard time.

You got to...

When my mom would go out looking through junk shops in western Massachusetts and picking up old junky antiques and stuff or things that she liked to collect and that sort of thing,

she would get home and then she would say, well, it's time to fondle the goods.

And that was a great pleasure for her

to take out the stuff she found in junk shops and fondle the goods.

And so that's why I go to the big chicken barn and I pour through those massive cardboard boxes of

one

weird kid's comic book collection.

He, she, or they started collecting comics right around the time I stopped collecting comics.

So there's a lot, and there's a lot of DC in there, which is not my thing.

And I've been going there for years, and every time I go, some new, even though I've fingered every comic book nostalgically in those boxes, I find some new Legion of Superheroes comic that I've never seen before, and I take it home and I fondle the goods.

That makes me feel good.

Nostalgia is a good feeling.

I know that it's the most toxic impulse, but mainly that's the case outside of a pandemic and as a governing principle or the soul of a political party.

That's when nostalgia is worse.

So I get it.

And this Adam Bomb card that TJ has been fondling recently in order to make himself feel okay,

first of all, I'm glad to see that he's got it in plastic.

It's preserved.

I can't tell what condition it is in.

It does not say whether it is mint, extra good, fine, or whatever.

But one that is in mint condition, Jesse Thorne, selling on eBay right now, guess how much money that Adam Bomb will get you.

And were you talking about a PSA 10?

yeah i'm specifically talking about a 1985 tops gpk atom bomb checklist 8a psa 9 mint

a 9 huh yeah i'm gonna say a thousand dollars three thousand eight hundred ninety nine dollars and ninety nine cents selling right now on ebay

but of course

tj's atom bomb you know, might not be that particular one.

Many of them are selling in the hundreds of dollars, $400, $100.

It really depends on the condition.

It's a valuable card.

It's a valuable card.

So TJ knows whereof he speaks.

Now, I wanted

when it comes to this Patrick Mahomes card.

Now, I don't know about sports.

I picked this one out myself personally from the pile because I just presumed that Patrick Mahomes was going to be some kind of baseball player.

And Jesse, you were going to be able to wax poetically about this incredible ball player

and all the interesting facts about this person.

But it's not.

it's a football player.

It's a football quarterback.

Football quarterback,

I believe, for the Kansas City Chiefs.

That's correct.

The Super Bowl runners-up

this year, Kansas City Chiefs.

Sorry, Rob Riggle.

I know it hurts.

Patrick Mahomes,

I went, because I don't know about this stuff, I went to Beckett.com, which I gather is a website and price guide for these kinds of collectibles and learned a few things.

One of them is that I learned that Patrick Mahomes is the biggest star in football, not named Tome Brody, whoever that is.

Big star.

And when Amanda said that this card was worth hundreds of dollars, I mean, there are a lot of Patrick Mahomes rookie cards.

And they, and, and yeah, Beckett has a few that are listed in like the $200 ranges.

But Beckett has a list of 37 Patrick Mahomes rookie cards in order of value.

And at the baseline, 200 bucks but the top one

three hundred thousand dollars

yeah there is a real the context for this john is that there is a has been over the past year year and a half a huge sports trading cards bubble right um

there's like been a tulip madness around sports trading cards over the past 25 years since uh baseball cards in particular hit their last peak

there was a sort of collapse in the sports card industry because in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when I was a kid and collected baseball cards, baseball cards were so overproduced that it was basically impossible for them to be collectible because it's, you know, it's there's there's just not enough demand to make anything valuable that there's 400,000 of or whatever.

It was like the variant cover comic book market glut of the 90s.

That was the bust.

Exactly.

So that sort of tanked the industry.

And over time, they've moved to essentially a gambling-based model.

Sure.

That means that they strictly control the volume of production on certain cards.

So when you open a pack of cards, you are trying to get limited run insert cards that may have an autograph or maybe holographic or have a piece of a uniform.

And the value is not in the actual, you know, there is almost no inherent value in, for example, a splinter of Mike Trout's bat.

You know,

most people who would want Mike Trout's bat would prefer to have the entire bat.

But...

Because they have so skillfully manipulated the odds of getting certain things and not getting other things and so on and so forth, It's gotten to the point that a pre-professional Mike Trout rookie card sold for more last year than the most valuable baseball card of all time, the legendarily most valuable baseball card of all time, the T206 Hans Wagner.

which is a tobacco card of arguably the greatest baseball player of all time, of which only like 200 to 400 were produced because of either some kind of contract dispute.

Either he objected to tobacco

or he didn't think he was getting paid enough.

You know, that's all been famously for decades a million-dollar, multi-million-dollar card.

This Mike Trout card from 10 years ago sold for something like two or three million dollars.

So there's a crazy bubble going on right now, and it is driven by pandemic-related supply shortages

and pandemic-related nostalgia excesses.

And it's particularly hot in non-baseball cards.

So basketball cards is one of the biggest areas because there's a lot of speculators in China.

And Pokemon cards is another big one.

Okay, I'm back.

Sorry, Jesse.

I had to drive 15 minutes down the road to get some chicken tenders from the shell station.

Just wanted to share some context on trading card issues.

I listened to every word and I found it fascinating.

And I'm glad that you're here to help me adjudicate this because, yeah, I mean, I don't know which Patrick Mahomes rookie card this is.

It's probably not a $300,000 one, but Amanda is not wrong that

based on its condition, it could go anywhere for a couple of hundred dollars to thousands to tens of thousands of dollars.

And I guess my question to you, Jesse, I mean, my instinct is, yeah, if you're 10-year-old, first of all, remind me, how old are are you if you're in second grade you're generally seven or eight years old right so this kid who's 10 amanda and dj's kid

he's he's had this patrick mahomes card for about two or three years

and i'm sure that he has eaten many chicken nuggets all over it using it as a placemat

putting in his bicycle spokes Doing that game where you try and throw it as close as you can to the wall without touching.

Right.

Seeing if it's flammable.

All kinds of things that kids do with valuable trading cards when they don't know their value.

Or maybe this kid knows.

Maybe this kid's a shark.

You know what I mean?

Maybe this kid hit the playground and saw this other kid going, I got this Patrick Mahomes.

I'll trade you this for that variant cover of Spider-Man number one by Todd McFarlane.

And Amanda's kid knew, oh,

I'm going to get rich.

He was more of an Eric Larson guy anyway.

And now the kid's saying, now, Amanda, your son is saying, I don't even know who it was.

There's no way I can return the card.

I think it is possible, and this is something that we cannot evaluate from our viewpoint.

I think it is possible that this kid sincerely doesn't remember whose card it is.

And,

you know, it's also possible that the kid panicked and lied.

That's also something a 10-year-old might do.

But if this kid sincerely doesn't remember whose card it is,

you know,

they got it fair and square.

You know,

I think it's theirs.

Oh, so you disagree.

They should keep it.

I think if

he knew whose card it was that he got, I think it would be appropriate to

give it back to the kid or at least offer it back to the kid.

I think if he actually doesn't know and the person doesn't show up, you know,

what are you going to do?

Sure.

Yeah, I think probably the kid is not lying.

I mean, I'm more concerned about TJ trying to make out like a bandit with this thing.

I think TJ's going to go behind his own son's back.

You think TJ's trying to middleman this thing?

He's going to give his kid 50 bucks and sell it for 250?

Yeah,

TJ's the ones going like finders, keepers.

It's been three, two to three years.

Put the card into your safe deposit box with your Atom bomb.

Keep it safe.

If after five years no one has come to claim it, then it's yours.

I'm talking about a collective five years.

So you have, you know, two or three more years of holding on to this thing.

But you want to keep it in trust for whatever poor kid your son accidentally swindled.

Unless your son gave away something even more valuable.

We need to know what the story is.

We need to make a good faith effort to find find this kid.

Keep the card in trust.

Once you are five years out, then I guess it belongs to your child.

But it belongs to your child, TJ, not to you.

That's his nostalgia, not yours.

Let him keep it for his own son and his own self-soothing later.

You can't sell it, TJ.

If your son wants to sell it, that's fine.

Here's something from Carrie of Sierra Madre, California.

My husband Andrew is from Freeport, Maine.

His favorite band is Fish.

I'm not from New England and am not a Phish fan.

We've been together for over 18 years, during which time I have quietly endured literally thousands of hours of fish music.

In fan parlance, this makes me a fish wife.

We now live in Los Angeles and have two small children, ages 4 and 2, who he is actively grooming to be fish fans.

He plays the music, of course, but also regularly plays videos of live shows from decades past and dances around the living room with the kids.

They love this.

I believe they would love it regardless of the choice of music.

There is still time to stop what I see as a future of three against one fish fandom in my home.

Will you please rule that Andrew, in recognition that my fish wife dues have been more than paid, expose our children to music we can all enjoy?

Please make the meandering jams stop.

Hmm.

Oh boy.

Joel, you like fish?

You like the band Fish?

Somewhat.

Jonathan Fishman, the drummer, lives right down the coast here.

Yeah, in Portland, Maine.

No.

No.

No.

Where does he live?

Lincoln.

Lincoln.

Lincolnville.

Boy, you just blew up his spot.

Not just Lincolnville.

Oh, yeah.

How do they compare to Joe Bird and the Field Hippies?

No comparison.

Which is is better?

Joe Bird.

All right.

You're going to get letters.

What's your email address, Joel?

Should I give out your email address?

All right, no, send them to me, hodgman at maximumfund.org.

I'll forward the letters to Joel.

He can respond to them if he wants.

As long as no one forwards any fish letters to me.

I'll CC you, Jesse.

On all the letters that Joel gets, I'll CC you, just so you can see them.

just for the record.

Phish, if you don't know, P-H-I-S-H, they are a very, very popular, what you'd call jam bands that were founded in Burlington, Vermont, just a few states over.

People love them.

I did a show in Burlington, Vermont.

I know I wrote about this.

It was in medallion status.

I was doing a show, a comedy show in Burlington, Vermont with our friend David Reese.

And we were greeted there by Burlington resident Ryan Miller of the band Guster,

who we share a mutual friend, and he said, I'm going to show you around town.

And at one point, he came into my dressing room and he said, hey, you want to meet?

Now, see, I can't remember.

Mike Gordon is the bassist, right?

Yeah, I'm getting a nod from Joel.

Phew.

You want to meet Mike Gordon?

I'm like, I don't know who that is.

He says, it's the bassist from Fish.

I'm like,

I don't really need to, but.

When you're in Burlington, Vermont, and the bassist from Fish shows up backstage, you kiss the ring.

That's Burlington Burlington royalty.

Poor Mike Gordon had no idea who I was and didn't want to meet me either.

But we did our job.

We did our jobs.

We was having a snack off of the craft services.

We did our jobs.

It was great.

It was a great moment.

People love fish.

And they are controversial because some people don't love fish.

John, most people don't love fish.

That's not.

I don't want you to present this as though these are equivalently sized groups of people.

Almost everyone hates fish.

Some people love fish.

That's not true.

Joel is really laughing.

I've never seen him smile before.

He's really laughing now through the glass.

I don't even, look, if you're one of the, I'm not trying to come down on the people who love fish.

I sincerely wish them the best.

But it is not a type of music.

It's not like, you know, a Justin Timberlake song where

some people love it, most people people are fine with it, and some people hate it.

This is a type of music that, if you played it for 100 Americans, two would think it was the greatest thing of all time,

10 would just sit impassively,

and 88 would actively despise it.

I just want everyone to know that I was back at the shell station getting more chicken tenders.

I don't hear a thing that Jesse Thorne said.

I certainly do not endorse it.

I just want everyone to know that I'm changing my email address so even john won't have it so you can't email him to get to me i don't believe that jesse thorne a very good friend would come so hard after my very good friend mike gordon the bassist of fish

i said look i read our friend nathan rabin uh pop culture writer nathan rabin wrote a beautiful book about yeah uh basically getting into the insane clown posse and fish yeah he sort of joined their cultural cult yeah That's what they are.

There's cultural

fan cultures.

Yeah.

And it was a, and it was a beautiful and moving book that led me to believe that it would be wonderful to be into fish.

I sincerely don't have a problem with anyone who's really into fish.

Ooh, wow.

I just want to make it clear, most people, if they heard fish, would be like, not only is this not for me, I actively dislike it.

Boy, you know what, Jesse Thorne, I know that in Los Angeles, you have to be a very talented driver because it's their main way of getting around, but I didn't realize how skillfully and quickly you can drive in reverse.

I'm not, I'm just trying to be clear, John.

Away from the forest fire you just started in your mentions.

It seems like a wonderful fan culture, but it is a very specific taste that is

very much an acquired taste.

Now,

look, here's something I'm a little embarrassed to say, that even though

Mike Gordon and Ryan Miller, chief guster of Guster,

and Mike Gordon, the bassist of fish, even though we go back years and years and years, we're very close friends.

Until I saw this letter, I never even thought about it.

I've never even heard a fish song.

And they're not songs all the time either.

No.

They're just extended jazz odysseys.

So I wrote to Carrie and I said, what is Andrew's favorite quote-unquote song?

And she wrote back saying, first of all, I appreciate your putting song in quotes.

This is my husband's response to the question.

And he said, my favorite song is Reba, but the point is that my real favorite song is when they make up new music off the cuff that goes on for 25 minutes.

And that can come and can start at any song, any time, pretty much.

My favorite version of Reba is from the Clifford Ball, August 17th,

my son's birthday, 1996.

He's not, he was much later, but same day.

August 17th, 1996, Andrew says, I was there, second row, and here's the video.

And he sent me a YouTube link.

I'm not going to share my screen and make you go through this.

It says, my favorite, it's a 15-minute song.

So my favorite part is from minute 1330 to 1430.

The climb around this minute is pure bliss.

And I dialed it up.

And as I was pasting in the photo of the garbage pail kid into this docket,

the song was working its way into my head.

And you know what I was doing, Jesse?

Tapping your toes.

I was actually doing some table drumming.

Table drumming.

I was grooving to it.

I was grooving to it.

I could get it.

When I read Nathan's book, John, there was this whole part about how wonderful their version of Boogeyon Reggae Woman is.

How undeniably spectacular their version of the Stevie Wonder classic, Boogeyon Reggae Woman, is.

And I finished the book and I put it down.

I was looking forward to seeing Nathan and talking to him about the book.

And I said, you know, I believe my friend Nathan Rabin.

Nathan Rabin was,

you know, he wrote the rap reviews for the A.V Club when I was a kid.

You know, I read them and

I dialed up this fish version of Boogey on Reggae Woman.

And

I like the Stevie Wonder version.

Yeah.

I was going to say, I was going to say that

at the end of our rural road here in Maine, one of the things I'm going to miss is the

incredible driving of the UPS driver who comes through because sometimes he can't turn around and he's got to back out the entire road.

And I thought I would never see better backtracking, but now I have.

I preferred fish as a reading experience look

I tapped my toes and I grooved to this song Andrew I'm not going to rule against one of the privileges of being a parent is is getting to share with your kids

and this is a message to TJ too

one of the privileges of being a parent is getting to share with your kids the things that you love the culture books stories movies that you love

one of One of the things that should not be a pleasure is going through your kids' belongings to see if they have secret value that you can then sell behind their backs, TJ.

But Andrew,

and I'm sorry, Amanda, I get it.

If you're not part of this culture, you could definitely feel alone in your family.

But

the only solution for

a culture that you don't like is more culture that you do.

You got to just start programming these kids with the stuff that you love.

You know, get in there.

I don't know.

What's the counterfish, Joel?

Scallops.

Amanda, pick something you love and love passionately and get your kids to love it

and maybe play

In a Gata Divida by Iron Butterfly for them.

That'd be a good thing.

You know, John, my wife hates it when I listen to jazz music.

Right.

And I sometimes, you know,

I'm not a serious jazz guy, but I'll sometimes listen to

jazz music that is as certainly as or more divisive than

fish.

Yeah.

And this story has inspired me to gather my children in the living room, put on the Pharaoh Sanders album Karma.

and listen to the creator has a master plan and dance around and see what happens.

Just give it a shot.

I'd love to watch it.

And if Teresa wants to go in an adjacent room and turn on Ani DeFranco and we have a little

acquired taste music off, find who the children prefer,

so be it.

Let's take a quick break.

When we come back, we'll have more of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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Join me and a bevy of special guests as we discuss every episode of Archer starting from the very beginning.

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The wizards answer eight by eight.

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They number 64

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and 62 they soon shall be, as one by one the wizards die, till one remains to reign on high.

Join us for Taz Royale, an oops all-wizards battle royale season of the adventure zone every other Thursday on maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

John, have you got anything in the mailbag there?

Yeah, I got a few letters.

I definitely got a few letters, Jesse.

Good.

You better clear them out because you're going to need all the room you can get in there.

I know it's weird.

This episode hasn't even aired yet, and I'm getting messages from Apple saying I need to buy more storage.

I'm getting too many letters.

No, I got, look, I love hearing from everybody.

Hodgman at maximumfund.org or maximumfund.org slash jjho, where you can submit your disputes.

Or if you take issue with something I say, explain why you do.

And share stuff.

I'll tell you what, Jesse Thorne.

Jennifer Marmor knows this.

We got an incredible letter from a woman including photos of her father in 1948 at his two-year-old birthday party enjoying a box of Cheez-Its.

You remember Cheez-Its, the greatest cheesecracker, aka the toasted rare bit in a cracker form?

Yeah, by an absurdly wide margin.

Go ahead.

Not going to share that with you.

We're going to wait till next week.

That's a tease.

Because we got a big one right now.

An audio letter, as it were.

I do want to say thank you to

T.

That was just an initial.

T.

Also, Jess, Brian, Barbara, Evan, Allen, and listener, Jeff.

I normally don't say last names, but

as with Dan Grubb last week,

I got to give it up for Jeff Wanco.

Great last name, Jeff Wanco,

who did get into Google Maps and did find

that community pool in Bridgeton that Alexandra referred to.

It really does exist.

I found getting all of these satellite images in my email to be a little bit creepy.

I don't want to blow up this community pool.

I don't want to blow up the spot.

I know it's a community center, so I can tell because there's some tennis courts there.

It's clearly a community center.

I'm sure it's lovely in the summertime, but I don't want to blow up their spot with a bunch of Judge John Hodgman listeners.

Joel, I'll send the address to you, though, in case you want to check it out.

Great.

Okay.

But thank you guys.

I'm not going to share that, but I did get this letter from Samuel.

Samuel said, I trained a neural network on the Judge John Hodgman transcripts.

You know, we have transcripts of many of the episodes now.

So for people who prefer to read the episodes, there are transcripts available.

And Samuel trained a neural network on the Judge John Hodgman transcripts and got the network to write a 90-second Judge John Hodgman episode.

And I was like, that's great, Samuel.

What's a neural network?

And he explained, it's a statistical model.

It starts out knowing nothing about language, but I handed all the online transcripts for J.J.

Ho,

and I made the network think about it overnight.

And in the morning, I gave it a word to start with.

and asked the program to write its own episode.

The program decides what letter is most likely to come after the word I gave it, and then which letter is most likely to come after that, and so on.

This is what's called a computer herald.

Oh, is it?

A computer herald.

I thought you were saying a real thing.

That's an improv game.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, this episode, this 90-second episode, which I'm going to share my screen and share with you now, and we'll post it obviously on the Judge John Hodgman showpage at maximumfund.org.

And this episode is what you get when a machine learns how to speak based only on Judge John Hodgman episodes.

This is performed by Samuel, by the way.

Welcome to the KYAYSIN2 in Orland, Maine, here on Maximum Fun.

New episode of Judge John Hodgman Cole Van Ovarius.

That was an actual three-point Love Island movie.

I am this week's episode, Sunbasket, Jesse Thorne, and the Maverick Court of Movie Crush.

Yeah, it's the best best title for a podcast.

Here's something from Savannah.

Their cat down and fell.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong.

No, but you're wonderful.

Compassion.

This is what I'm talking about.

Judge John Hodgman.

Here's something from Samadar's Jazz.

You know what?

I think a Dracula could come.

Uh, will you see a Dracula?

No.

Bit.ly slash Batbabasu Circis Dro.

Alright, speaking of the house is infested with bats.

That is my favorite, number one, immutable religious practice.

Support humans.

Here's something from the Crumble one.

Bit.ly slash Bat Bros courts.

I thought, is buttleg?

Buttleg.

Right.

Uh, can I put it a different way with with no leaf blowers?

The leaf blower is justice.

Plot holes, universe.

I don't want to know this beef available at putthisonshop.com.

Cannibalism is really good.

Wait a minute.

Jennifer, please rise as Judge John Hodgman, extra rabbit oven.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Rockrad.

Thank you, Samuel.

We can always rely on the crumble one, am I right?

We can always rely on the crumble one.

Joel, you couldn't see it, but there was a Joel Mann cameo in there.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah, you were given a line in that one.

Check that out at maximumfun.org on the Judge John Hodgman page.

Samuel shared his surprise, which probably shouldn't have been surprised to learn that the computer learned that

bit.ly links are almost as important as anything else we say.

Enough that two would be featured.

Bit.ly

bat broscorks and bit.ly

bat bosustra joe

and those links will be available and obviously you've probably just written them down now but i i i hopped in before samuel could get to them and i and i i connected them one to that youtube video so you can see it for yourself and two The other one goes to weru.org to thank you, Joel, for hosting us for these past several rollicking weeks.

I know that you just had your membership drive.

Yep.

That's over by the time this comes out, but you can always go and check out weru.org by going to bit.ly, capital B, capital A, capital T, capital B, capital R, capital O, capital S,

small K, small O, capital R, K, S, Bat Broscorks.

And thank you, Samuel, for sharing that.

Not only a fun, rollicking good time that really wraps up a lot of the rollicking, but also

makes me realize we don't have to do this anymore.

How many transcripts do we have, Jesse?

More than 10?

Oh, many, yeah.

Yeah, we're going to have to do at least one episode that's just

a full hour of that.

Okay, Jennifer?

Sure.

We'll take a break.

We'll take a vacation.

Before we end the rollicking and all these wonderful weeks in Maine, I just want to say thank you again to Joel and everyone here at WERU.

I really do look forward to it.

Joel, stop shuffling papers over there.

I cannot wait till I get back to Brooklyn.

But we've had a really wonderful time here together, all of us, and the Judge John Hodgman Show will continue to rollic and dispense justice as always.

And we'll be back here in Maine when the time comes.

But before I take my leave, there's just one more thing I have to do.

Joel, are you ready?

Ready.

We're off to outer space.

We're leaving Mother Earth

to save the human race

Our star blazers

Searching for a distant star heading off to Iskindar Leaving all we love behind Who knows what danger we'll find

We must be strong and brave Our home we've got to save Gojo

if we don't in just one year Mother Earth will disappear Fighting with the gamelons we won't stop until we won.

Then we'll return.

And when we arrive, the earth will survive with our star

blazers.

Thanks for your patience, everybody.

Hit the credits, Jesse.

Well, with that, the docket's clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer, our engineer in Maine.

The man, the myth, the legend, the one and only Joel Mann, program and operations manager at WERU Community Radio in Orland, Maine.

You can listen to WERU at weru.org.

You can follow Joel on Instagram at the Main Man.

This is our last week recording with Joel for now.

Our thanks to Joel for lending us your voice these winter weeks.

In addition to, of course, your studio at WERU.

Thank you, Joel.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your judgejohnhodgman tweets, hashtag jjho, and check out the maximum fund subreddit, maximumfund.reddit.com to discuss this episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO or email Hodgman at maximumfun.org.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Surprise post-credit sequence, Joel, you had something you wanted to share?

In the immortal words of Joe Bird and the Field Hippies.

How much fun it's been.

How much fun it's been.

How much fun it's been.

That was creepier than I thought it was gonna be.

Thanks, Joel.

Yay.

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