Trash Action Lawsuit

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I am guest bailiff Gene Gray filling in for Jesse Thorne.

He's not on this beach.

This week, trash action lawsuit.

Kelly brings a case against her husband, Andrew.

Their next-door neighbors tend to leave their garbage cans at the curb for a long time after the trash collectors come through.

Andrew wants to bring the neighbors' cans back to the house for them, but Kelly thinks it's too passive-aggressive for him to do so.

I have so many opinions.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Thank you, Guest Bailiff Gene Gray.

Here it comes.

I'm sad because I'm happy.

And I'm happy because I'm mad.

And I'm mad because it sounds sappy to be happy when you're sad.

Supreme Guest Bailiff, Gene Gray, please swear the litigants in.

Kelly and Andrew, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever else.

I do.

I do.

You didn't rise, but okay.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that I have heard him pronounce despite as despite to spite people.

Do.

I do.

All right.

Well, Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Ah, guest bailiff, Gene Gray, so happy to have you back.

Jesse Thorne couldn't make it today.

Gene

stepping in.

One of our very favorite guest bailiffs, Gene Gray, if you don't know, last name is spelled G-R-A-E.

That's right.

To avoid copyright infringement suits from Marvel Comics?

No.

No.

No.

I like the AE

before

Elon Musk and Grimes Ruined.

I like fairies.

Yeah.

I like the encyclopaidia.

Yeah, right.

Big, big fan of the AE.

Big fan of the AE, and I'm a big fan of the Jean Grey AE.

Jean Grey.

Comedian, storyteller, performer, singer, musician, polymath,

pastor

her own Louis Pasteur.

Louis Pasteur.

Louis Pasteur of her own church, the Church of the Infinite You,

which started as a show in the basement of Union Hall here in Brooklyn.

It's a legit daytime church.

It's also a legitimate daytime drinking church.

Yeah.

Now available to all on twitch.tv.

We'll tell you where to find it and when to find it, and it's important that you find it.

But meanwhile, we're here to discuss because it's very special.

It's very special, Gene, as are you.

You're my friend.

You're my friend, too.

Can I just say, before we get into this, how excited I am?

Because I love confrontation.

All right, proceed.

Let's go.

I do not care for it.

I do not care for it.

That's why I am the judge

and not the litigant, so I can tell people who's right and wrong, and then I can sneak away.

That's the point of a podcast, is no one ever sees each other.

No one has to see each other face to face.

But in fact, now because

we're doing all kinds of things differently and we're all recording from home now,

I can see the litigants.

This is case number two in history, Gene,

where I've been recording from home and I can see the litigants' faces and their nice faces.

Does it change it for you?

It does, mainly because I can remember their names and know who's speaking.

Because

their names are attached to their faces, which is really...

Yes.

Honestly, we should have that in all of life.

I don't understand why.

Just name tags all the time.

Name tags everywhere.

But Kelly and Andrew, nice faces.

This is your confrontation, not mine.

You may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture I referenced when I entered the courtroom.

Kelly, what's your guess?

I'm going to go with a Shel Silverstein poem.

It's very Shelvey Silversteiny.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's very Shelvey Silversteiny.

Okay, we'll put that into the guess book.

I'm not saying it's wrong or right or medium.

Everything.

There are no wrong answers except for the one that I say is wrong.

Andrew, what is yours?

The word sappy

put me in a certain time frame, so

I'm going to guess something by James Thurber.

Something by James Thurber.

To use a sports metaphor, that's a fairly good ballpark for my kind of thing.

My book, Vacationland, as you know, did not win the James Thurber Prize for American Humor in 2018, but was a finalist.

I'd like to change my guess to Dorothy Parker then.

You can't Algonquin roundtable your way out of this, Andrew.

Nice cuts, nice drops.

But all guesses are wrong.

I'm going to give you another hint, but this one is non-binding.

If Jesse had been here, because this fits so well,

I would have used this quote, but I would have changed certain names.

So see if this gives you a better clue.

John Hodgman is the exact opposite of how I think you should behave.

I just think of it as a negative view of the positive mind I have.

Jesse Thorne is sweet and nice and also sympathetic, as kids can identify with him, even though he looks like such a bizarre character, eight feet two inches and a beak 18 inches long.

Any guess now as to which piece of popular culture I was referencing?

Kelly?

Andrew?

It's from Sesame Street.

It is from Sesame Street.

The song I quoted, and I did not sing it because I don't know this one.

The lyrics to the song, I'm Sad Because I'm Happy by Oscar the Grouch.

Wow.

For this is a case about trash cans.

Yes.

You never thought about trash cans, did you?

You're just like, oh, it sounds like Shel Silverstein.

And I know Hodgman loves complaining about not winning that Thurber prize.

The cultural reference has to refer to the case.

And in this case, yours is a case of trash cans.

The quote that I gave you as the hint, of course, was Carol Spinney.

The late Carol Spinney, talking about Oscar being the opposite of Big Bird.

In any case, I thought also that Oscar the Grouch, Gene,

Oscar the Grouch is the best, right?

Because he loves confrontation.

He loves confrontation.

He's very blunt, and

he's not doing it in a malicious way.

He's like, I just want to, let's just talk about it.

Right.

Like now,

it's going to happen now.

What's wrong with you?

Yeah.

Why don't you move into a trash can and maybe you would want to address some things immediately?

But because you're so comfy where you are, you're not doing that.

Yeah, that's right.

He's like, I live in the trash.

Check your privilege.

This is what you should be seeing.

Talk about it now.

Also, I feel like we're all living in a trash can right now.

Like, Oscar the Grouch never left that trash can.

Well, to be fair, it was very large on the inside.

Like, he lived in a loft.

Yeah.

The trash can, you'll recall, Kelly and Andrew, from Sesame Street, Oscar's trash can is larger on the inside than on the outside.

It's huge.

It's a TARDIS.

It's a TARDIS.

Yeah, basically.

Everyone knows that Oscar the Grouch is a time lord.

This is known.

This is known.

Anyway, so here we all are in our respective trash cans, talking to each other through these tin cans, making human connection wherever we can.

A lot of can talk.

So, Kelly, you bring this case

to my court.

And what is the justice that you seek?

What is the problem with your husband?

I would like Andrew to let go of the idea of bringing the trash cans back for our neighbors because I don't feel it comes from a place of good spirit.

I think it comes from a place of

nosy neighbor

and

a bit of passive-aggressive

messaging as to

how you need to take care of your cans.

So let me see that I understand what's going on here.

Now, you live in

a suburban type environment, right?

Detached houses.

Yes.

And whereabouts do you live?

And I would prefer your specific street address.

We live in southeastern Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia.

Okay.

And the way trash collection works in your neighborhood is,

first of all, it gets collected, which right now seems like a freaking god or whatever damned miracle.

I'm so glad we have a civilization still

working on it, working on holding on to it.

But in any case,

you put your trash out in bins, right?

We call them cans.

We call them cans.

The trash

at your curb, right?

Yep.

Right?

Yep.

Twice a week.

What are the days?

Tuesday and Friday.

Tuesday and Friday.

And the trash collector comes and takes away the trash and leaves the bins behind, leaves the cans behind.

And then each homeowner goes out to collect those bins and brings them back up into your garage or whatever.

Correct.

Yep.

Right.

But your neighbors don't do it.

And Andrew wants to do what, Andrew?

When your neighbors don't bring their trash cans back up to their houses and leave them hanging around on the street looking like literal trash,

you want to do what?

I want to take them back away from the street and return them to where the neighbors store their trash cans when they're not out for trash.

And I presume they store them in their living room and you get them into the living room by throwing them through the windows.

Yes.

Because the plate has windows.

With a brick in the bottom for good measure, yeah.

Yeah, exactly so.

No, where would I like when you're when you're doing this trespassing,

where do you drop off the cans?

So they keep their hand cans right on the side of their house.

So

it's a very short distance from the street to where their cans go.

It doesn't require me to open a gate or go into a backyard.

It's just a matter of pulling them about 18 feet from the street up to the next step.

and next to their property right while holding their property correct yeah in the morning

and how long has this been going on that it's been getting on your nerves

uh

about 10 years oh boy oh boy this is a neighborly fight for the ages and how often do you go out there and like kelly how like what's the standard operating procedure now that andrew does this and you want him to stop or that andrew wants to do it but you tell him don't do it he wants to do it and and so there is a bit of a backstory um in that the previous occupant of the house was a wonderful woman who she was our neighbor when we first moved in 20 years ago

hang on hang on i'm just going to interrupt you for a second keep keep rolling on this gene cray i realize that we don't have uh we don't have any stings for this show you know what i mean we don't have we don't have any like backstory like backstory you know what i mean like all right do you can you give me a quick backstory sting that we can drop in

do the that bit before you want me to just say it right now no just do it do it now and and and I'll make Kelly start all over again

backstory backstory backstory backstory

thank you all right Kelly start again and say there's a bit of a backstory and then leave a pause so that we can insert that and Jennifer Marmer producer leave this all in I want people to see what goes on behind the scenes

so there is a bit of a backstory.

Backstory, backstory, backstory.

Again, our previous neighbor

was a wonderful woman when we first moved in.

She was in her 80s.

She was our neighbor for about 10 years.

And as she, she was very independent well into her 80s and early 90s.

And she got to a point where she couldn't.

take the trash.

She wanted to, and

she had about a teaspoon's worth of trash, but would diligently bring it out every Tuesday and Friday.

And she struggled with the cans.

And so we walk our dog every morning and pass their house.

We live on a dead-end street.

And so

in going past their house, we developed a system for our older neighbor where we would take the can out for her as we pass by to leave for the dog walk.

And then the trash men would usually come by by the time we returned.

And Andrew would return the can up to her porch and help her out.

And so he wants to do this now with the new neighbors,

who are a lovely couple,

but a perfectly capable

couple.

What happened to your older neighbors?

She did pass away at the age of 96.

Very, very rude of her.

Very rude.

But she was beloved.

Yeah, no, that's wonderful.

And so, and they are a wonderful couple.

I have no complaints about them as neighbors,

but they just leave their cans out much longer than anybody else on the street.

And so he wants to, on the way back from the dog walk, return the cans

to their property.

And I feel like it's a different situation and that it's going to be seen as passive-aggressive and judgmental.

Andrew,

how well do you know?

Are these your next-door neighbors?

These are our next-door neighbors.

On which side?

On our left side facing the street?

No, I think he meant on

your mother's or your father's side.

So how well do you know them, Andrew?

I didn't know them terribly well.

In the last couple of weeks, I've gotten to know them quite a bit better, which has been very nice.

We haven't really had that opportunity in the past, but

I know them a little.

They are actually relatives of Ann Eady, so they are members of her family.

We know them.

We know their child.

We know their parents for friendly hellos across the fence.

Okay.

We know their dogs.

You know their names.

You don't have to say their names.

I don't want to, you know.

Do you know if they're listeners to this podcast?

I do not know that factually.

Why not?

Because this would be the record-breaking passive aggression if you came up here on this podcast to send your neighbors a little message.

Let's take a quick recess, and we'll be back with more of Kelly and Andrew's case in just a moment.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

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Andrew, now that you know your neighbors so very well, their old pals, friendly, you know their dogs or whatever, have you just said to them, would you please bring your trash cans up?

No,

I have not.

I say that as though that's an impossible thing for anyone to say.

To me, that's more judgmental than just bringing the cans up.

My portion of the backstory, which Kelly, of course, can't speak to, is

hold for the sting.

Hold for the sting.

Andrew's backstory, backstory, backstory, which Kelly can't speak to.

Backstory.

All right, go on, Andrew.

For a while, for maybe a year or so

or more, the cans would lay in the street.

I would get bothered about it.

I would grouse and complain to Kelly about it, but I wouldn't do anything and I would just come inside.

And after a little while, I thought to myself, well, this is silly.

If it's bothering me, why not do something about it?

If I did the same for the former resident there without being asked, why not do the same for the current resident who lives there without being asked?

So I'll put the can back and

we're both winners.

Their cans are back and it's not bothering me.

So if I understand this correctly, your backstory is that your relationship with Aunt Edie,

you're helping her with the cans started by your just doing doing it one day.

And then eventually she caught on and said, thank you for trespassing.

Thank you for bringing my property back to my property.

Don't know why there's a horse's head in this one.

Message received, I guess, but if you don't mind doing it for me, that would be great.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would put them up on her porch and she didn't like it, but she understood that her

limitations made that the most practical solution.

Okay.

She was grateful for the effort, but it bothered her that she couldn't do it on a personal level.

She was very independent.

Jean, make up names for these neighbors, please.

Jamis.

That is James.

Jamis.

Jamis.

And

Lammis.

Jamis and Lammis.

And the last name?

Flerb.

Jamis and Lammis Flerb.

Go ahead.

Jamis and Lamis Flurb.

Hi, I'm Jamis.

I'm Lammis.

We're the Flurbs.

I know it's cute, isn't it?

That's how they introduce themselves.

We know.

We know.

We know.

We know.

We know our first names sound alike.

Anyway, we're the flurbs.

Just moved into the neighborhood.

Don't know the rules.

Hope someone will tell us at some point.

You guys like trash cans?

You guys like trash cans.

We're proud of our cans.

So proud.

We like the world to see them.

How long do the flurbs leave the cans out for, Andrew?

Routinely, they're out there for the next trash collection day.

Two days.

A couple of days.

Yeah.

Yeah, but then after the last trash collection day, do they just roll it over to the next week?

Do they ever bring them back?

They do occasionally bring them back.

Yes.

They do eventually bring them back.

Come on, Frank.

But they've been out there for multiple days.

Come on.

Why does this bother you so much?

Well,

they are the only people on the street who leave their trash cans out that long.

Right.

The cans are very visible.

They're unattractive.

They are sometimes in the street.

No, I understand the nature of the complaint, but I mean,

aside from people having to drive around them,

it obviously strikes a deeper chord with you.

How does it make you feel when you see those cans line all over the place?

It seems like it would be a very small thing to take care of.

And sometimes I'm just...

put out that somebody won't do something

which seems quite small to take care of the street.

Gotcha.

Yeah, okay.

Well, in fact, you send in some evidence.

Oh, Kelly, do you want to jump in?

It's a dude thing.

There's a little bit of a, Andrew sees it a little bit of a competition in the men of the street to who brings their cans back first

and quickest and everything.

Is this a competition that exists in real life or only in Andrew's mind?

I think it's only in Andrew's mind.

Andrew, have you considered inviting everyone to join a Google spreadsheet and say, what would be fun is we all time how long it takes for us to get our trash cans back and we can fill in our best times on the spreadsheet.

Wouldn't that be fun?

Well, I have prepared such a document.

Is that true?

Did not submit it, but.

No.

Well, you did submit some evidence.

And Gene Gray, do you have the evidence?

I do.

I do.

I have it right here.

I'm looking at exhibit A here, the trash can in question.

Please note that there are no no other trash cans visible.

Now, all these extremely dramatic photos will be hosted on our Judge John Hodgman page, maximumfund.org.

And I'm going to tell you right now,

this picture of a lonely trash can on a suburban street is definitely going to be the number one most faved pic on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram for sure.

Who posted this pic?

Who sent in this exhibit to me?

I did.

Yeah.

So when you look at that can, you're what?

Tell me, like, narrate your feelings.

Just look at it right now.

When I look at that can, I think the street would be better if that can was not there.

I'm going to make the street better.

I'm going to put that can back.

May I ask a question here?

Kelly,

does Andrew have these feelings about other items within the household when things may be out of place?

to him or

are not put away.

To be fair, he's very

in that he will take it upon himself to put things away and to straighten.

He's wonderful around the house.

I can't say anything bad about that.

But say, if you had been using something, using an item and stepped away, do you find that these things get put away before you may be done with them?

Yes.

All right.

Ah.

Check me out.

Gene Gray, permission to add a sting of my own?

Incredible question, question, question, question.

Crunch found, found, found.

Kelly, what's an example of a thing that got put away before you were done using it?

Well, you know, I might leave a glass next to the sink and say, I will take care of that, but I need to go do something first.

And then by the time I get back, it is in the dishwasher.

Yes.

You've even given indication that you're going to be coming back to it?

Yeah, I'm bringing this up because my husband has to say things like that to me.

I'm still using this item.

Don't do anything with it.

Because you'll clear it away, Gene.

Oh, yes, I will.

Right.

100%.

So you're a little bit Team Andrew here, it sounds like.

No, I'm not.

No, I'm not.

No, don't get me wrong.

I just wanted to see if it was coming from the same place.

I understand where it's coming from.

And maybe the problem is coming from inside the house, calling from inside the house.

May I just clarify that?

All right.

Andrew, go ahead.

In this example

kelly

if you place the glass near the sink near the dishwasher and you say i will take care of that are you indicating that you are going to reuse the glass or are you indicating that in a few moments time

you are going to put it in the dishwasher does it matter i feel like we're not even here gene this is incredible it does matter Because if you were indicating to me that you were going to reuse that glass is one thing.

But if you are saying in a few moments, I'm going to put that into the dishwasher, and I, to be a good guy, put it in the dishwasher for you,

then

we've both benefited.

You've not had to put the dish in the dishwasher.

You were not going to reuse it.

It was a dirty dish.

I saved you a step, and I got the counter cleared.

Question, Andrew.

What is your profession?

Professional hair splitter?

Close enough.

I'm a fundraiser.

Oh, all right.

Does that require splitting hairs?

Let's just say it requires looking at things from a lot of different perspectives.

All right.

That's fair.

God.

Andrew.

Why is this an issue?

Why is this whole thing an issue?

You've got all the right tools in place.

All of them.

Oh.

Is scolding a part of this show?

It hasn't been before.

Can we just put that in?

Can I just have a one-on-one with Andrew at some point point during this?

I will allow it.

I will refuse myself.

Not yet.

Not yet.

May I introduce one other

item in what I think is Germaine to this story?

Yeah, of course.

So our next-door neighbor has a snowblower.

Okay.

And in the winter, when it snows,

he snowblows our front walkway.

That's very nice.

This is the same neighbor?

These are the flerbs?

Yes, it's the flerbs.

Jamis Flerbs?

Is it Jamis or a Lammis?

Let's say

Lammis Flerb is the snowblower.

So Lammis will snowblow our front walkway, the sidewalk and the front walkway.

He'll do several on the street.

We've never asked him to do that for us.

We appreciate it, and I do not take it as a judgment that I haven't shoveled fast enough.

Kelly, I see you want to jump in there.

I do.

So I believe that Mr.

Flerb

is doing our neighbor on the other side of our house.

He goes down and does their entire walk and front walk and driveway apron.

And so the reason he does our front walk, while it is very much appreciated and everything, it's because it's on the way

to where he's going.

And it would be a really,

really bad move to go around or to stop snowblowing the

snowblower through your right yeah

well I mean it's truly a mystery for the ages what Mr.

Flurb's motivations are there's no way to ever know

and I've made him brownies for doing that really did you let him know that you did it

did you leave them in the counter in your house yeah exactly these are for the flurbs I mean it's not appropriate for us to let them know yeah

uh so let me just make you understand clearly Andrew, before I give you a chance to respond.

When Flerb

snowblows,

it's the sidewalk in front of your home.

Correct.

But he, in this case,

he does not snowblow your walkway up to your door or your driveway, right?

No, that is correct.

Right, okay.

It is a Schradinger's cat mystery as to whether Flerb is doing this as a favor to you or just because it's more convenient to keep blowing, as it were.

Correct.

Keep on blowing.

Keep blowing, blowing.

Much like our sidewalk being on the way to the other house,

the trash cans and putting them back are on the way to our house.

Right, but you understand that what you're doing is different in the sense that you are going on to, you're taking their property and going on to their property, whereas the sidewalk is shared.

It is communal to the neighborhood.

Okay, I see that point, yes.

These second exhibits, exhibits B and C,

are adorable.

And I just want to discuss, first of all, they're essentially dramatic renderings

of the situation in the house.

Your dog Penny here, the caption is this photo depicts our dog Penny stalwartly watching the street for trouble.

Please note this work is exhausting, and sometimes Penny needs to rest her head, and Penny is resting her head on your couch, looking out that window, staring perhaps with dismay at that lone trash can.

And then we have here an action shot of

frustration.

Which I enjoy.

Now, Kelly and Andrew looking out the window at that at that one trash can.

Andrew's hands extended

in almost a crucified position of dismay.

It's Penny and Andrew, but yeah.

Like,

what would be your vocalization there, Andrew, when you see that?

Like, what's the what?

I believe that's a, come on.

Come on, that's right, it's a classic.

Come on, that's exactly what I mean.

I have done this, this position with our cat littles directly at many things outside of the window.

So, as soon as I saw this, I was like,

I want to tell him how much I relate,

except you're such an easy fix.

Oh, Andrew, I feel you, but I don't feel you.

All right, Gina, I'm going to ask Andrew to approach the bench for a quick scold sesh.

Scold sesh.

I'm going to recuse myself from this, Andrew.

This has no bearing on what my decision may ultimately be.

But

our guest bailiff has requested a scold sesh.

Thank you.

And

I think you're going to get one.

So please approach the bench.

Andrew.

I think this is probably the case

where I can relate to something so much.

I don't like

things and especially loan items and especially after things are clean and you can see that things are clean

being left

out

making everything uncomfortable.

It makes me very uncomfortable inside.

I don't like a messy computer desktop.

I'm like, why can't you just You can rein all that in.

And

I learned that

I very early on in life, I'm like, hey, if something's bothering you and it's, it feels like it's a reasonable thing to say, that a good thing to do is to be able to confront people about it.

And it seems like you're taking those steps at home.

I see that that happens.

And then

it seems like you might be living with a lot of frustration not being able to say things out of the home.

And

you need to.

It's okay.

It's okay to say, hey, something's bothering me.

It's all right.

It's not trespassing to do that.

It is trespassing to actually trespass

to physically use your body.

But to verbally be able to do that

is something that's good for you.

It's something that's good for relationships.

It's something that's good for everyone.

And

as a person who

would

very much

triply consider trespassing on anyone's grounds, because

it's a very important thing that I had to learn to be able to confront people.

I really, really

I feel like we're all around the same age.

You gotta do this, man.

You can't.

Whoever that dog was is a green.

Thank you.

Is that Penny?

Is that Penny in the back?

Penny?

No, don't apologize.

Penny is back there being like, come on, man.

Let's.

We got all the stuff she was saying.

I was in the picture.

Exactly.

Dog cameo.

However, the judgment goes today, I just want you to leave here,

remembering not to stifle yourself anymore, because it can be really unhealthy.

And

it's okay to say things that you need to say.

And Skull Sesh!

Gene, what do you think, like, because we all hate the idea

of, for example, doing call banking, even for politicians who we love,

even when the election is perhaps the most high stakes election in our lifetime, it is uncomfortable for us to call up our neighbors in the United States

cold and say, hey, would you consider voting for this person rather than destroying what's left of civilization?

And often there is a script that goes along with it.

that helps the person get into it.

So if you were writing a script for Andrew, and Andrew, I'm not really in Kelly's favor necessarily.

I'm just hearing all the evidence.

But I take Gene Skoldsch under advisement.

And if you were to write a script for Andrew,

what would you have him say or do in order to express himself productively and get the outcome that he wants?

Well, I think forming it yourself is great, and you know how to do that because you're in fundraising, and you don't get into fundraising without knowing how to get money out of people.

Like

you're a salesman.

You know what to do.

However, I think it's really important to start with

because these are people you know and people you've spoken to before and it's not coming out of nowhere is to say hey I've got something that's been bothering me for a really long time

and I've been trying to work out like why I haven't said it before.

I would even bring up the fact that this happened.

Because what you don't want when you approach someone and start telling them something and you're like, hey, I've been thinking about it.

And they might talk to other people and they're like, have you been, did you do an entire, did you start a mini series about this before you spoke to me?

You want to give them all the information and you want everything to be out in the open so that you guys can actually have a clean slate relationship.

So I think, you know, form your own thing, but the most important thing to include is to be completely honest about it.

Even if it seems like what you're telling them might be unreasonable to them, it's not unreasonable to you.

That's really important.

So Andrew, if you went over to the flerbs or or you waited until you saw them next time, sort of whatever,

and

you said, uh,

hi.

Um

I just wanted you to know that um it's a small thing and I'm sorry to bring it up, but

when you don't bring your bins back up, it just is a point of distraction to me.

It's a me thing, but it's something that I notice, and

I've even went so far as to go on a podcast almost literally trashing you about it.

Do you mind bringing the cans back up, or would you mind if I just brought them back up if that would be easier?

Like, if you said that,

what do you think would happen?

What are you afraid might happen?

I think that's judgmental to my way of thinking.

That to me seems a little bit like a scold sesh for our neighbors for not bringing their bins back up.

But aren't you already doing that inside?

See,

I don't sincerely believe that that's what I'm doing inside.

I really don't think...

Me putting the cans back is scolding

my neighbors.

Now, if my neighbors asked me to ever ever stop, if they saw me do that and said, dude, don't do that, I wouldn't continue it.

But to me, I sincerely believe that it's not a scolding as much as it's just being neighborly and we all benefit.

So, Kelly, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me rule?

So, to be fair to Andrew, I'm not looking for him to confront the flurbs.

And I know you can't legislate thought,

but

I just don't want it to bother him.

I don't want him to get frustrated.

I don't want him to make himself older than he is and the street busybody.

You know, I don't, I just would rather he see it as the small thing that it is and that they have other things to worry about and that,

you know,

to live and let live.

So, Andrew, have you done this yet or is this just a dream?

Returning the cans?

Yeah.

To the flerbs.

Yes.

I have done that.

I've done that at least once in Kelly's presence, and it did not go well.

I asked him not to.

Right.

And have the flurbs ever acknowledged it?

Have they ever said anything about it?

No.

Nothing.

How many times would you say you have done it?

I have not done it more than

six times.

Okay.

Just for a moment.

Kelly, I want you to turn off your audio, okay?

So you can't hear.

Go into a cone of silence.

Kelly has taken off her headphones.

I can see that.

It's the benefit of this new way of doing things.

She can't hear what you're saying.

Andrew, how many times, really?

25?

30?

35?

No, really.

Six.

Yeah, it's like six because

it wasn't very long ago that I even started to do it.

For a while, I just...

Walked past.

Kelly can come back online.

You have no idea how he does this this every day, even when the cans aren't there.

No.

He verified that it is only done it the half dozen times.

I believe that.

Honestly, Guess Bale of Gene Gray, this is truly something of a game changer for me because now it's written into the silent code of the neighborhood.

Obviously, this is not a neighborhood where people express themselves to each other that much.

Yeah, no, no.

I would love to go talk to the entire neighborhood.

If I may, what I would like to know is that if Andrew found his cans

put back

every day before he had a chance to get home or before it was on his time frame,

how he would feel?

Incredible question, question, question.

I'll allow it.

Andrew, how would you feel if you came home and saw your cans having been canhandled by another person

all up alongside your house or whatever,

you knew that someone else had been fondling your cans how would you feel i would not have a problem with that uh

i have a real problem with it i'm thinking about it right now and it feels weird to me

sorry i will say there's one small caveat which is if somebody brought them up out of the street and put them onto my driveway alongside the house which is not where i keep them but it would if they're out of the street i'd have no issue with it

we keep ours in the backyard if they brought them through our gate and put them in our backyard that would, yeah, that would skeeve me out a little bit.

Would you, would you?

But if somebody brought them.

Sorry, Andrew.

I was just going to ask if you would rather have them talk to you about it rather than to touch them first.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not sure I believe that answer.

Well, I think I've heard enough in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go in my tough right plastic shed next to my chambers,

sit here for a moment, contemplate.

I'll be right back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise slightly as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Kelly,

how are you feeling about this?

How do you feel like it went?

I'm feeling pretty good.

I don't want to force Andrew into anything he doesn't want to do in regards to confrontation, but

as far as the nature of the case, I think I'm feeling pretty good.

Okay, Andrew, how are you doing?

I've been pretty rough on you today.

Yes,

scold sessions have not made me feel great about my chances.

I am hopeful that with two scold seshes, I will have been informed enough by the court that perhaps the judge will see in my favor.

We will see what Judge John Hoshman has to say about that.

We'll be right back.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years i know where this has ended up but no no you would be wrong we're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing yeah you don't even really know how crypto works The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Thank you, Kelly.

Andrew, you may be seated.

Andrew, I appreciate why you are

sensitive to the scold sesh.

It's no fun.

Scold seshes are no fun.

To receive?

Or to give.

But your argument that moving the trash bins

silently is somehow not a scold, mm mm.

No way.

The story that you tell yourself that you're being a nice guy, that's not what's going on.

Once when I was in my 20s and I worked at a literary agency, I shared a floor with two other cubicles and the other young assistants on the floor, they did not get along all the time.

And one of the complaints was the woman who was not me felt that the man who was not me smelled bad.

B-O, body odor.

And one day,

I hear her over the cubicle say to him, hey,

something stinks around here.

I happen to have this can of deodorant.

Why don't we both put some on?

And he got furious because he knew what it was.

It was a scold.

She couldn't do this.

I was just trying to be nice to him.

What not be nice?

You're correcting the universe the way you want it to be.

And I understand.

This argument that you give about moving the glass before Kelly's done with it because you're being nice to save her a step, or you're moving the bins because you're being neighborly.

This is a story you're telling yourself.

You're moving these things because you want the universe to be a certain way.

You are correcting the world to fit what you want it to be, which I also get a lot.

I mean, I don't know if you guys saw the Kenneth Branagh murder on the Orient Express.

I never cared for Urkule Poirot.

Me, I'm a Miss Marple guy.

That's the way I've always been.

To me, Urku Poirot was just this fatuous,

busybody busybody

show-off

until I saw Kenneth Browna step in a pile of manure,

some kind of feces.

I don't know whether it was dog poop or something.

In the opening scenes, he steps in, and he's walking through the city, and he steps in dog poop, let's say it was.

And the look on his face, because Kenneth Brown is a professional actor, he's good at it.

Look on his face is so pained.

And then he takes a step back, and then he puts his other foot in the dog poop.

Because as he explains,

it's not the dirt that annoys me, it's the imbalance.

And all of a sudden, Urkule Poirot became a real character for the first time in all of my experience of reading or watching these Urkule Poirot mysteries.

Which goes back a long way because I'm a weird.

And

the problem is he is cursed with perception and an intrinsic need for balance.

And I'm not suggesting this is you, but once you understand that Poirot is working out of a compulsion to do what he has to do, it's not only merely a much more interesting character, but a much more human character.

And he's channeling his compulsion for good.

Your living room acting in this shot is incredible.

You're a Kenneth Branagh of frustration in the living room.

This is obviously staged.

I mean, Kelly, you did not capture this in the moment.

I captured him with his arms down.

But then he lifted his arms, yes.

Yeah, but who told him to lift his arms?

You're a great director.

He's a great actor.

But I feel in you this feeling of like, come on.

I don't want to look at this cam anymore.

And that's fine.

I don't think you should have to look at it either.

The flurbs are flurbing up.

It doesn't matter why they're doing it.

They're flurbing up.

They're not following the rules.

And it's causing you distraction.

And you have a right to take care of that.

And that's why, Kelly, I'm sorry to say, I cannot find in your favor.

I can't compel Andrew

to stop feeling the way he's feeling.

Because this is a deep thing.

This is something he thinks about.

And I don't think that it's necessarily bad that he's done this six times.

Because the flurbs don't seem to mind.

The flurbs don't give a flurb about anything.

Maybe.

Which is all the more reason, Andrew,

that it should not be a problem to just let them know that this is what you're doing and get their permission.

Because you have to get their permission.

You can't.

You can't.

You can't be going on people's property with their property, touching their property

without their permission.

And it will be granted.

I guarantee you.

Flurbs don't flirb it.

They don't flurb.

I'm going to rule.

I can't rule in Kelly's favor.

I'm going to rule in your favor.

I think you should do it.

I think it's a neighborly thing to do.

I think it's a nice thing to do.

But the next time you do it, you have to say hi to them.

Ding-dong, maybe, a little ding-dong.

Or you can write a note, but just say, you may have noticed that

I've moved your cans back from the curb

a couple of times.

I hope that that doesn't bother you.

I'm glad to keep doing it, but if you prefer me not to, I won't.

And then see what they say.

I'm sure they're going to be like, yeah, thanks for doing that work for me.

But it's just, this is a principle of law.

Like,

it's a minor thing.

But the fact that you did it for Aunt Edie before does not set a legal precedent for you to do it whenever.

Are really not on your side here, Andrew?

I would have ordered Kelly.

I would have told you to take your headphones out.

In fact, you know what?

Take your headphones out, Andrew.

There we go.

Turn about his fair play.

Kelly.

Sometime in the future, take your time.

I want Andrew to forget all about this.

I want him to forget the other, like, take years.

By then, the flurbs and you will be on great terms.

It'll be great.

And one day,

without telling Andrew, I want you to take those bins in

and secretly put them by the side of the house before he can get to them and document what he says about it.

He's going to be expecting it for weeks, months, maybe even a year.

But when he doesn't notice,

this has receded into the back of his mind, let me know what happened.

Do it.

Let me know what happened.

All right, Andrew.

You're good.

We were just talking about how much we love you.

Oh, this is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom again.

That's a lot of ins and outs.

Much like my feelings on this case.

Kelly, how do you feel about this verdict?

I think it was fair.

Um, and in good faith, and and and to um meet Andrew where he's at, I'm willing to have the conversation with the flerbs so that he can do what he feels compelled to do.

I'm excited.

I think this went well.

I would have ruled differently, but then again, I'm a real judge.

Andrew, your feelings on this verdict.

I think the judge

had great wisdom in the verdict.

I think this is absolutely the correct thing to do.

I think it leads with positivity.

I think it allows everybody a graceful way to

not

continue with this if anybody's uncomfortable with it, but it also gives everybody a graceful way to continue with it if everybody's okay with it.

I'm very pleased.

Thank you, Kelly.

Thank you, Andrew.

I'm so happy.

I'm so happy we got to this place.

Andrew, you can't touch all this stuff, Sam.

You can't.

You can't.

You can't.

Get out of here.

And that's another case in the books in this voice.

Before we dismiss

what?

Gene,

before we continue, let me just say what a delight it is to have you on again.

Oh, it's always fun.

Gene Gray, Church of Infinite You

is every other Sunday afternoon.

That's right, because every Sunday is too much.

Too much.

And you can follow Gene Gray on Instagram at Genie Gregio and on Twitter at Gene Greasy.

I've got those memorized.

Thank you.

Type Gene Gray into your Google machine.

Gene of the Grays on Twitch TV.

That's right.

That's Gene J-E-A-N of

T-H-E-G-R-A-E-S, because you love the A-Es.

Just got to get these plugs in before we get to Swift Justice so people know.

Follow Gene, find out when church is, find out all the things that she's doing because everything she's doing is great.

Thank you.

There's a couple more shows coming up, so be sure to get ready for Sunday brunch, which is going to be every Sunday that church church is not.

And

I'll be DJing and cooking a meal because I like to multitask.

Also on Twitch.

Gene Gray, making work for yourself.

That's right.

Yeah, making it hard.

All right.

Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank Logan Green for naming this week's episode Trash Action Lawsuit.

If you would like to name a future episode, just like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

We regularly put out a call for submissions there.

Follow us on social media.

I am on Instagram at John Hodgman.

I'm on Twitter at Hodgman.

And Gene, of course, at GeneGreasy.

And on Instagram at GeneGregio.

We just talked about it.

Hashtag your JudgeJohn Hodgman tweets.

Hashtag JJ Ho.

Check out the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss the episode.

Gene, I've been popping into the subreddit.

A lot of nice people over there.

And of course, check out the pictures of Penny and a frustrated Andrew on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman, where we regularly post the evidence and other fun stuff from our listeners.

And thank you to Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Gene,

since you are the guest bailiff,

but

as we know, a real-life judge.

Yes, clearly.

I'm going to let you take Swift Justice.

I'm going to pitch it to you.

Now, I'm taking a break as we go to Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with the quick judgment.

Douglas says, my wife Molly loses her keys constantly and refuses to use the keyhook I hung up inside the door even though she admits that it helps her keep track of her keys judge in this case Gene Gray

would you please order Molly to use the keyhook Molly you gotta use that goddamn key hook what are you doing you know what it's for it's for hooking your keys on so you don't lose them all you gotta do is start a routine use that Use the key hook, Molly.

Judgment.

It's true that if you know that you're you're losing your keys all the time and you know that the hook helps, you got to put the keys on the hook.

And it's the same thing.

You build new habits in life.

It only takes three times.

After the third time that you put those keys on the hook, it's a thing.

That's about it for this week's episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho

or email me.

Hodgman at maximumfund.org.

That's hodgman at maximumfund.org.

I get those emails.

I read them.

I sort them.

I can't reply to all of them.

I try,

but my eyes will pass over them.

And I know that this is true.

There is no case too small.

There is only cases too medium.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

That's Gene Gray, everybody.

See you next time.

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