Right to Redress

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, right to redress, Morgan files suit against her sister, Sarah.

Sarah is getting married in November and asked Morgan to be her maid of honor.

According to Sarah, Morgan has an alternative style.

Sarah would like Morgan to alter certain aspects of her appearance for the wedding.

Morgan doesn't think she needs to change.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

When you punish a person for dreaming their dream, don't expect them to thank or forgive you.

The best ever death metal podcast out of Max Fun will in time both outpace and outlive you.

Hail Satan.

Hail Satan.

Hail Satan.

Hail Satan.

Tonight.

Hail Satan.

Hail Satan.

Hail hail.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, will you swear them in, please?

Morgan and Sarah, please rise and raise your right hands.

hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever?

Yes, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he

personally added piercings before his wedding?

I do.

I do.

Very well.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Morgan and Sarah, you may be seated.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you guess the piece of culture that I reference as I enter the courtroom?

Morgan, I could hear in your voice that you knew it.

I could hear it in your voice.

You know this one, don't you?

I genuinely wish I did because that sounded absolutely amazing.

Oh, I'm so excited.

I'm so excited that you don't know.

I'm sure, Sarah, you don't know.

Yeah, I'm not going to lie on that one.

I do not.

Yeah.

Because Morgan is the alternativa sister.

Yes.

Yeah.

And you are not.

No.

But you are both from around and maybe living in the

area of Denton, Texas.

Yes.

Sarah lives a little more south, but I am in Denton, yes.

Okay.

Yeah, you're in Denton, Morgan, and you don't know this song?

Oh.

I love how Morgan's like, oh, like she didn't realize until this moment that it was a song.

I was singing a song.

It was more of an incantation in your performance.

It's true.

It's true.

Morgan, what's your guess?

I want to say Rocky Horror Picture Show.

It's not that far off.

I know one listener, or potential listener who might be, and friend of the court who might be laughing very hard at that.

Tim Curry.

We can just say it's Tim Curry.

Tim Curry.

Sarah, Morgan has made her guess something from Rocky Horror Pictures Show.

It's a valid guess.

What would your guess be if you had to guess, and you do have to guess?

Well, we were discussing My Chemical Romance's return at lunch, so I'm going to go with My Chemical Romance.

My Chemical Romance.

Do they have songs?

Hodgman's more.

I should explain.

Hodgman's more of an evanescence guy.

Oh, okay.

Can I change my guess to evanescence?

I'm going to use the line that was presented to Jonathan Colton when he was in elementary school and mentioned that he enjoyed the band Kiss.

And his teacher said, What kind of music do you like?

He goes, Kiss.

She goes, Is that a band or a song?

That's how I feel about both of those things.

Evanescence, My Chemical Romance, something from Rocky Horror Picture Show.

All guesses are wrong.

It is, of course, the best ever death metal band out of Denton

by

Mountain Goats.

Our friend John Darnell, friend of the court, and occasional.

Morgan, now you're feeling it right.

I did tell my sister before we started that she should just guess something from the Mountain Goats just because.

Yeah.

That would have been so exciting, Sarah.

If you had only done what your sister said, you would have walked away with this.

That's why we're here.

I can't listen to my sister.

Yeah, without any knowledge of the Mountain Goats, without any emo leanings at all, with zero piercings or hair or hair colors,

you would have walked away with this and now we're have to hear the case.

So let me recap as I understand it.

Now, Sarah,

you are to be wed, correct?

You're to be married.

Yes.

Morgan is your younger sister by one year, and you've asked her to be your, what they call maid of honor, right?

Yes.

But you have a concern about how she will appear at your wedding.

Tell me about that.

Well, Well, since my sister was a little girl, she's been allowed to dye her hair whatever color she wants and any hairstyle she wants.

So she has

both sides shaved and has a blue color hair right now and a piercing between her eyes.

And so that concerns me that she'll outlook me on the wedding day.

Like she'll outdo me.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Morgan, you bring the case to this court.

You would like me to order your sister to stop cramping your style.

Tell me your side of this.

I was actually a little surprised when she asked me to be her maid of honor, and obviously I was extremely grateful and happy for this opportunity.

Earlier this year, she had just kind of offhandly made some comments about my natural hair color.

And then on my birthday, whenever I had gotten kind of the piercing in question, she did make a comment like as soon as she saw it that, you know, it would have to be out for the wedding.

I just personally don't think that she has anything to worry about because our family knows who I am and what I look like and no one expects anything less from me.

I don't think so.

Let's describe your style.

You've talked about a piercing that is between somewhere on your face.

Yes.

But it is not what people would typically consider to be a nose or septum ring, right?

No.

So it's called a bridge piercing because it's on the smallest part of the bridge of your nose, which is right between your eyes.

Ooh, right between the eyes.

Does that go through cartilage?

Or just skin?

It's actually just skin.

It's like right on top of like the base of your nose.

I think I speak for all Judge John Hodgman listeners when I say that I'm currently pinching that part of my face

and wondering what that would be like.

Jesse, you would understand that as a place where a pince nez goes.

Oh, yeah, sure.

Well, me and my friends from the bull moose party, yes.

Pince Nez being the kind of eyeglasses that stereotypically you see a Teddy Roosevelt wear, and they don't have arms that go over your ears because it just pinches your nose.

It pins your nez.

Yeah, and John said that to me specifically because he knows about my robust physical outdoorsman's lifestyle.

That's right.

What has he called it again?

The strenuous life.

Yeah, the strenuous life.

The strenuous life of Jesse Thorne.

We'll, of course, go to evidence.

We have photos of both of you and different stages of your life that are all be available on the JudgeJohnHodgman page at maximumfund.org as well as on our Instagram page, Instagram.com/slash judgejohnhodgman.

But before we do, Morgan, because I'd like to hear you describe, overall, besides your bridge-piercing, how would you describe your style?

And how would you describe Sarah's style?

And this can be what you wear, how you do your hair, or as Fred Rogers would say, all those things that are not what you wear and how you do your hair.

I'm part of, I guess, what most people label as like the goth and punk community.

So I have only black clothes.

I like lots of kind of like spikes and like leather accessories.

I do have a full mohawk, so it's completely shaved on both sides all the way down.

My hair is a little too long to spike it right now, but I can indeed spike it into like a full mohawk.

And it is colored.

I have lots of tattoos.

My ears are gauged.

What does that mean?

I'm sorry.

I'm 48 years old.

I have the big holes in my ears.

Big holes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Got it.

I've been to a coffee shop.

I know what you're saying.

Yeah, my style kind of fluctuates between kind of like classic, almost 80s kind of goth look to a kind of contemporary punk style.

It never goes to a classic 80s punk look, like the guy that Spock does the Vulcan death grip on the bus in Star Trek 4.

Oh, it can sometimes.

Yeah, absolutely.

If I go to like an old school show, then I definitely try to kind of pull that out.

Now, look, I'm not going to touch the internet.

I will risk the wrath of petants writing me letters to say what I'm going to say without touching the internet just to keep the flow of conversation going.

I believe that that character in Star Trek 4, The Voyage Home, is known as Bus Punk Number 2.

Uh-huh.

And I believe I've met him in real life.

And I believe that his name is Kirk.

Well, I got to look it up.

That song that he's playing on his boombox, or at the time we would have said Ghetto Blaster, on the back of that bus is a song by his own band.

He was working on the production of the film, and they were like, hey, you're a punk rock guy.

Will you be the punk rock guy?

And they're like, we need a punk rock song to play.

And he's like, yeah, what about one of my band's punk rock songs?

And so, yeah, it was a local punk guy from the Bay Area in 1986 or whenever that film was shot.

Kirk Thatcher is the name of the song.

And Kirk Thatcher is someone I met at Comic-Con.

I was introduced to him by Ken Plume.

So, full circle, let's get back to the case.

I apologize for using the internet, and I suspect that I'm going to get letters anyway.

So, all right, I got the picture now.

Morgan, you're classic Star Trek 4 punk.

How would you describe Sarah's style?

Like, more of a class of 1984 punk?

Does she like gutter punk?

Is she like Gilman Street?

Does she like sex pistols, crust punk?

Yeah, what's her story?

Hardcore, like shaved head and a flight jacket?

I was going to say anti-racist skin head or two-tone ska or what's going on?

New York dolls, glam.

I just want to repeat, I'm 48 years old.

She's very colorful and kind of,

I don't want to say classic adult because I'm also an adult, but

though, I mean, she wears a lot of, she does sometimes wear graphic tees.

We're both extremely nerdy.

Like, I'm wearing a Harry Potter shirt right now.

She usually has like, she has lots of Star Wars t-shirts, but she's very well put together.

Kind of, I don't want to say classic girly kind of prep look, I guess.

Morgan, just for the point of clarification, are you wearing a gothic Harry Potter shirt?

It's just a black shirt with the Harry Potter symbol on it.

Got it.

It's not like a gravestone that says Harry Potter on it.

I mean, I'm I'm also wearing layers of rosaries and a black leather jacket.

So I would expect no less, Morgan.

What a delight.

Do you have those pointy black fingernails?

I think those are so cool.

Yeah, no, I actually work as a cook, so I can't really paint my nails, unfortunately.

You gotta have short nails, right?

Yes.

Yeah, right.

Okay.

Sarah, how would you describe Morgan's style if you were to use your own words and your own style?

Yeah, I would just say like people that don't know my sister and just pass down the street just think she's just a gothic,

you know, with all the leather and everything.

So I guess just like classic gothic that people say.

And then I guess I'm more of the preppy wearing dresses and stuff type.

I don't know.

I'm more of the girly type.

So like a Lindsay Sterling from Evanescence type.

I would go with that, yes.

I use the internet again, I admit it.

That's fair.

Since I'm using the internet, let's take a look at the evidence because I think it's going to illuminate a lot for us and the audience.

If you're listening along while driving the car, don't look at the internet.

But if you're sitting at home, take a moment and look at the evidence with us, won't you?

You both sent in photos.

And

I'll flip a challenge coin to decide whose evidence I'm going to look at first.

I have this 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea challenge coin.

If it comes up Nautilus, it's going to be Morgan.

Nautilus, Morgan, here we go.

I can see this bridge piercing.

It looks very painful, but it's your style.

I'm not going to say anything.

It's not for me.

You say I have a mohawk, and I see it right here when it's all spiked up.

But otherwise,

you know, your hair is in a blue configuration here and a green configuration here.

And even though the sides are shaved, it's like a secret mohawk because

I wouldn't think that you had a mohawk in these photos.

Yes, I actually did that on purpose a few years ago.

I was working for, I don't want to buzz market, a big no, go ahead.

We've given up on that.

Okay.

I was working for Chick-fil-A.

Oh, you know what?

We don't say that.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I was working for Big Chicken.

We call them BIC, Big Intolerant Chicken.

Okay.

And, you know, of course, they had me.

I had to do my hair a normal color for that job.

And kind of in retaliation, I decided to shave my head.

But in order to kind of have some level of professionality, I did a much thicker mohawk than the kind of classic look so that when my hair is down, it's a lot easier to cover.

However, I don't ever really wear my hair down.

It's quite rare that I do that because my long hair makes me a a little uncomfortable and so it's usually up in a ponytail in which you can see like the shaved sides.

That is evidence, piece of evidence too, here, how I usually wear my hair ponytail and bangs pushed aside and it looks, you know, if I were the owner of a um an anti-gay chicken sandwich company and looking for a respectable person to hire, I would hire you.

Luckily I'm not in that position.

Luckily I have a um I co-host a very tolerant podcast.

Oh, you no longer work for Chick-fil-A, do you?

No, I was only there for about a year.

Um what do you do?

What do you do now?

You work as a bakery, you say?

I run my own freelance bakery company where I make custom cakes, cupcakes, cake pops, that kind of stuff.

Now, that's a job for a goth.

Come on.

That's a great career for a punky goth, a guffy punk, a gunk.

Morgan has given us pictures of all of the various levels of intensity of her personal look, and she looks really great with all of them.

I agree.

I'm curious about picture number five.

You are being patted on the head by a stormtrooper.

What is that story?

Yeah, so our family went to Disney World.

I think this particular occasion might have been four years ago.

My father and I had heard about how, at

Hollywood Studios, the stormtroopers will walk around and they're hunting for traitors and rebels.

And if they decide upon you, they will actually take you with them for questioning and you go into the back with them.

Oh, I don't know how.

This is supposed to be a theme park, not some kind of sleep-no-more immersive experience.

You're not alone, stormtrooper.

Did you get picked?

No, and that's the unfortunate thing.

But I was trying to kind of push it to be picked.

So I created my own.

The outfit I'm wearing that photo, I made myself.

It was kind of like an original character cosplay type thing.

And so I spray painted like the Empire symbol on a shirt and I put an anarchy symbol over it.

And I spiked up my Mohawk.

And every time the Stormtroopers would pass by me, I would yell at them and tell them, you know, that the rebels are out there.

And so this particular stormtrooper came up to me.

And of course, I got excited because I thought they were going to pick me.

But instead, he kind of just stared down at me and then was like petting my mohawk.

And we did able to catch a picture of that it was pretty awesome it's a pretty cool picture but i guess the i guess the stormtrooper is like

she wants it too mad

she wants to get picked up and now the other question i have about the evidence that you sent in morgan is uh number seven the day my sister chose her wedding dress you're all holding up signs and i can't make out what sarah's sign says so this is you and presumably a mom and some other bridesmaids or attendants all of them holding up signs that say yes as in say yes to the dress What does Sarah, what does your sign in that picture say?

So I guess, fun fact, my sister's wedding is actually Harry Potter-themed.

And so I had made us these signs for kind of, you know, in a kind of classic way where one side of it says yes and one side of it says no.

So when she would come out, you kind of flip the sign.

And then I made one personally for her for when she found it.

It says, I said yes, the dress.

But all of the font is in kind of like the Harry Potter font that you see like on the books.

And then it was with like a shiny material.

So that's why it's kind of hard to see in that picture.

Right.

It's a little lightning bolty.

Yeah.

Oh, I got you.

Okay.

Yeah, that's why it looks weird.

Let's take a quick recess.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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Sarah, when are you getting married?

I am getting married November 25th.

This year, it's coming right up.

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's coming.

We've got to settle this debate.

It's coming.

November 25th?

I don't know.

November 25th, I'm recording I Potius episode 6 that day.

I just can't make it.

But I want to come to this wedding.

I can make some arrangements.

I mean,

we can reschedule.

Well, maybe that will be my ruling.

Here's my question.

Harry Potter theme, tell me all about it.

What makes it a Harry Potter theme?

And whom are you marrying, if I may ask?

So my fiancé's name is Mark, and he is a high school math teacher.

And we both are obsessed with Harry Potter.

So, my fear of when I tell people Harry Potter wedding is people imagine like a Halloween party.

So, it's still kind of like a rustic wedding with Harry Potter stuff here and there.

So, we kind of have marquee letters that spell Lumos and different characters of stuff sitting around and just little touches here and there.

And we're going to have a honeyduke's candy station.

And so, yeah.

Don't worry.

It's still a contemporary wedding.

There will be hay bales.

You don't have to worry.

There will be hay bales.

Exactly.

What house are you in?

I am Hufflepuff.

Yeah.

You know what?

That's what the thing told me, too.

Really?

I answered a questionnaire that my son gave me a while ago.

That's awesome.

That's what I turned out to be.

Hufflepuff.

The dumbest sounding one.

Sorry.

Hufflepuff.

Oh, my gosh.

Do you think she ever, do you think J.K.

Rowling ever goes back and goes, that was a bad call?

I should have workshopped that a little bit more.

I don't know, John.

I feel feel like you grading Harry Potter houses by goofy soundingness is a pretty, like, what do you think?

You're going to be a rocktronica?

Is that a band or a song?

I don't know.

Just saying a word.

It's like at the end of the day, you're choosing which Harry Potter guy you are.

All right.

But look, this is a Harry Potter-themed wedding.

Isn't there going to be some dress-up to this thing?

No, none.

That's where it stops.

That's where it stops.

That's where you draw the line.

Yes.

Yes, there's a line.

You sent in some evidence as well.

And in all fairness, let's talk it through.

I mean, there's this great photo of the two of you next to a Jawa.

Is this the same trip to...

It's not Galaxy's Edge at Disneyland or Disney World.

This is before that.

Yeah, this was much before, much to our dismay.

Right.

And either this is a very tall Jawa or you are both

moderately sized humans.

We're both pretty short, yeah.

Okay.

And this is one of the great photos of all time because you have this jaw while you have Morgan with her straight-up mohawk and her, you know, pick-me-I'm a rebel terrorist outfit on.

And Sarah, you're just wearing your cute ears and pigtails and running shorts and sneakers.

That's, would you say this accurately describes your difference in style?

Very accurate.

Yeah.

And would you say that you're very different as people, too?

Yeah, I think we both have...

very different personalities.

We were not extremely close growing up because of that.

We have very different interests.

I mean,

you're like a Slytherin.

I'm a Hufflepuff.

Morgan's like part of the rebellion.

I'm part of the Empire.

I mean, we're on the opposite levels of everything.

Yeah.

I am frankly embarrassed that I did not pick Morgan as a Slytherin until you mentioned it, Sarah.

But you're right.

You know your sister well.

But

are you really Team Empire?

I mean, that's a genocidal fascistic organization.

Oh, yeah.

This is this is an argument we have a lot.

I'm glad to hear that you have a conversation about, you have a big conversation about this.

Jesse, cancel the next two podcasts.

Sarah, what's your dispute over the Empire?

I mean, because it's got Darth Vader.

You can't go against Darth Vader.

I'm all about Darth Vader.

And Kylo Ren is bay.

The whole movies are about how you can go against Darth Vader.

She is Stockholm's room.

I mean, Kylo Ren and Darth Vader, I just can't, I just can't.

I want to be on their side.

I want to be on their ship.

Can I just make the way she says Darth Vader canonical from here on out?

That's a Texas Darth Vader.

Were you excited in the trailer for the new Star Wars movie when it looks like Ray's going to go dark side?

I was more excited about the scene of Kylo Wren with rain pouring down on him.

You like Kylo Wren.

Oh, yeah.

You love Kylo Wren's style, and yet you look at your sister and you say no.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, your sister is really Kylo Wren.

To be fair, Kylo Wren is pretty evanescence-y.

I would say he's a little emo.

Yeah, yeah, this is true.

A little emo?

Do you see his hair?

He's very, very angsty.

Yeah, you like Kylo Wren.

You like the dark side.

Yes.

But you don't want the dark side as your bridesmaid.

So you sent in some photos of one photo here of Morgan in a maroon or burgundy dress.

What is the significance of this dress?

So that is the dress that she's going to be wearing.

I am letting her wear to the wedding a different dress than the rest of the bridesmaids.

So she has her own style dress, even though it's not her style, it's my style still, but it's different than the rest of the bridesmaids, so she can stand out some.

What are they wearing?

They are wearing kind of the same thing, just with one shoulder.

Oh, okay, but different color or the same color.

Yeah, it's essentially the same exact style, but they have just one shoulder strap instead of like a full dress top.

I gotcha.

And Morgan, is this a preview of what you want your look to be at this wedding?

That just happens to be the only picture I took in it when it first got delivered to me.

One of the reasons why, I mean, I don't know why she submitted it, but one of the reasons why I submitted the photo is because my hair was a little bit purple at the time.

And you can see just my bangs in that picture, but it is a purple color, which is the color I planned on doing for the wedding.

Oh.

I did not know we were having purple hair.

This is new.

So you're changing from blue to purple?

Well, if I wear blue, I'll look like an American flag.

Oh my gosh.

I'm trying to policy myself a little bit.

I thought purple was better than the bright blue.

We should explain the flag thing.

Morgan has stars in her eyes.

So, Sarah, you would have Morgan not have a hair.

What color hair would you have?

Would you force her to conform to the Empire's wishes?

The Empire requires brown hair or black hair that just doesn't stand out.

Interesting.

Why is this important to you?

Because growing up, she's always had colorful hair.

And every time there's pictures of us, everybody talks about my sister.

So she's more kind of the well-known sibling of us.

So on the wedding day, I kind of I want to outshine my sister.

Glad you're open about that.

Let me be honest.

I object to that.

No, no, not yet, Morgan.

Do you feel overshadowed by Morgan?

And her style, yeah.

But when it comes to personality, I end up being the crazier one.

So we balance each other out.

Yeah, I feel like Morgan is like on the side of like anti-fascism.

And you're on the side of like, I don't know.

I'm kind of dark force curious.

What do you do in your regular life, if I may ask?

I am a veterinary technician at an animal hospital.

Oh, thanks for that work.

That's incredible.

Thank you.

Morgan, how did you feel when Sarah asked you to be her maid of honor?

I actually almost cried.

It was a very kind of touching moment.

Like I said, we were never really that close growing up, and we've gotten much closer in our adult years.

And so, whenever she asked me that, it really meant a lot to me that she wanted me to be in this role for her.

When you say, oh, I'm going from blue to purple, and she's asked you to have no non-natural hair color at all, are you poking her a little bit?

I'm not trying to aggravate her or get like a ruse out of her by discussing this.

I just more feel like I was just kind of taken aback when she asked me to do this.

And since we never really had a full conversation about it, I just kind of figured I might as well keep doing what I'm doing until it gets to a point where she's like, okay, really, though.

And you've been involved in the wedding.

You made those signs and everything else.

Are you excited to be a part of the wedding?

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

Are there any areas where you would compromise that she is asking you to compromise on?

I think the one thing that I can concede is the piercing because I do understand, I mean, since I've gotten it, I've had a lot of people tell me they've never seen it before and it's extremely like, not to say weird, but very unique.

And I do understand that it's kind of the one thing that is very much out there more so than my usual look.

I don't have any other facial piercings.

You know, I honestly don't have that many piercings in general compared to my tattoos at least.

I can absolutely concede that as long as she allows me to put a spacer in, which is something she also...

doesn't want.

A spacer would prevent the piercing from closing?

It's just a clear bar that you can put in that just fills up, you know, obviously the space of it, but you can't see it.

It's not an attention getter.

It's not a conversation starter the way the full, the full-on metal bar would be.

Yes, but she thinks that even if with the spacer in, it would still be noticeable, which I don't believe so.

Just out of curiosity, if you didn't put the spacer in, is there the chance that the piercing would close over the course of a day?

No, absolutely not.

It's healed at this point.

I've had it since July, and if I had to take it out for the one day, it wouldn't cause any problems.

Morgan, I'm looking at the picture of this burgundy dress, which is the dress that your sister picked out for you.

And wow, I would certainly say that I wouldn't call it punk rock.

You know, I went to arts high school in the great goth revival of the late 1990s, and I could certainly see one of the many vampire the masquerade enthusiasts who I knew,

the many

skinny puppy concert goers

wearing this dress.

Is your objection that you would prefer to wear

something

more

martial or that you would prefer to wear something more

that is black?

Like, what exactly is your upset with this deep red, lacy dress that is, to be honest, a little gothic?

I actually don't have that big of a problem with the dress.

I had told her whenever she first asked me to be maid of honor that I would do anything that she wants to make this the perfect wedding for her.

Her whole life, you know, my sister's been one of those girls who's always dreamed about like the perfect wedding.

And, you know, we tease Mark because before they even met, she already had like her wedding essentially planned out.

And, you know, so I

absolutely, from the beginning, was like, I will wear whatever you want me to wear.

Like, you know, even if you want me in heels, I'll do that.

Like, that, that hasn't been a problem.

Especially with the style of the dress.

I do enjoy lace and so I do like the kind of look of that.

I do

I do attend vampire balls and stuff like that, so there's a way for me to recycle this dress.

Sarah, what have you told Mark he's going to wear?

And how, and how have you told him he's going to live?

Yeah, I he was not happy that I got to see him in his suit for the day, but I went within the store and picked it out and

told him what he was going to be wearing: a navy suit and burgundy tie.

Basically, a navy suit and burgundy tie?

Is he Gryffindor?

He is a Ravenclaw, actually.

Like, This theming is all off, Sarah.

No, I know.

Sarah, do you have colors for the wedding?

I know from my experience editing the blog, put this on, that often weddings are built around a palette.

Yeah, so we're looking at like navy burgundy and gold.

Wait, you're Hufflepuff, too, right?

You and me, right, Sarah?

Yeah, yeah.

What's this burgundy and gold business?

Well, it's got to be like my vision with touches of Harry Potter, but my vision isn't yellow.

And you have to be careful not to let the vision of others participating in the event slip in sideways.

Exactly.

It's my vision or the high vision if you're Sarah.

Yeah.

That's what that means.

Exactly.

Honestly, John, I have to say that speaking as someone who's gotten a lot of panicked emails from grooms about the colors that their partners to be or their partners and spouses to be have chosen without consulting them and the closed dilemmas that it puts them in.

It sounds like Mark at least got off pretty easy because,

frankly, a burgundy tie in a navy suit, you could do a lot worse than that in general.

Yep, that's absolutely absolute classics.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How long have you been dreaming of this wedding, Sarah?

When did you first envision the Harry Potter-ness of it and the dream of it?

Well, the Harry Potter was

when I first met Mark.

I honestly just dreamed of this big, like classy, crazy, huge, expensive wedding.

I mean, I'm not getting the expensive part, but it's going to be, it's, and then when we first met, we were always talking about Harry Potter.

He hosted me a Harry Potter movie night when we were first dating.

And so it just kind of became our thing and going to Universal Studios and whatnot.

So whenever we got engaged right away, we were like, we have to have Harry Potter.

I should explain to you, John.

I'm looking at this in the evidence and you're not.

She's saying Harry Potter party, but to save money, it's actually a Barry Porter party.

And I also, before I go into my Chamber of Secrets to make my decision, what kept you and Morgan apart when you were younger as sisters?

And when did you start to become friends again and why?

We moved around a lot.

We were both Air Force brats, and so you'd think we'd be really close, but we were just always clashing in personality.

And because we were having to only be with each other when we were moving, you know every few years we were like sharing bedrooms doing everything together we just kind of fought all the time so in a way it's like we were really close because we were only always stuck to each other but we would fight with each other a lot and then when we kind of got to adulthood and realized you know how much you know being around each other really meant I think it was probably like four years ago we just you know, we just clicked, put our differences aside.

Was one of you more resistant to the relationship than the other for sure i would say uh because i'm the big sister i was kind of like that uh you know i'm too good for a younger sibling stop following me around and trying to be my friend and stuff at school that was definitely me and you know she'd try to run up to me at school and i'd be like oh my gosh this girl's annoying and just go away and uh that's kind of what we were like so yeah she she was she you know was sweet and kind of looked up to me growing up but i i was the resistant one i will admit to that and now when you hear about her saying how touched she was that you asked her to be the maid of honor, that she is more than happy to wear the dress that you picked out for her, though it's a little different than the others for sure.

She's willing to take out the piercing, you know, she's excited to be a part of your wedding.

How does that make you feel?

Super excited and super happy.

I'm so glad she's like really happy to be a part of it for sure.

How would you have her change her appearance to actually be part of your special day?

I would have her just more natural hair and natural beauty, no piercings on the face.

All right.

And Morgan, I think all you're asking for is basic bodily autonomy.

Yes.

I just personally think that my sister is so beautiful and so radiant.

I mean, especially in her wedding dress, like whenever she chose it, the reason why we all thought it was the one as soon as she came out, I just started bawling.

And so I think she underestimates how much on her wedding day she's absolutely going to stand out more than I will.

Because, first of all, no one's there for me.

You know, this is her day.

And, you know, everyone's coming in from, you know, we have family flying in from Scotland to be there for her.

And And I think that, you know, she's going to look absolutely gorgeous.

And I think all eyes will be on her, regardless of if my hair is blue or not.

Are any dudes going to wear kilts from Scotland?

Yes.

Yeah, I knew it.

Yeah, are any dudes going to wear quick kilts who are definitely not from Scotland?

That's it.

That's it.

Can I get a kilt for the wedding?

Probably our uncle.

Yeah, there's a few people that have heard about it, and they have all asked if they could join in and wear kilts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't want to tip my hand as to my ruling, but that's where your real problem lies.

Dudes who are not Scottish wearing kilts.

True.

Sarah, who is going to be at this wedding who doesn't already know Morgan?

Basically my in-laws.

None of them have met her

or really seen her.

So yeah, a lot of in-laws.

Are you concerned about how they're going to react to her

alternative aesthetic choices?

Oh, yes, very.

They are very conservative.

Let me ask you this, Morgan, though.

Seriously.

However, you present yourself at the wedding, are you going to go up to these in-laws like they're stormtroopers and be like, yeah, check me out, Nark.

Arrest me.

Well, actually, I will be meeting them a couple of days before the wedding because Mark's mom is hosting a dinner so that she can meet all of Sarah's family.

Oh, interesting.

So

we won't be meeting at the wedding, which I think will be.

a good thing.

If you were to have your way, Sarah, for the pre-wedding, for the rehearsal dinner.

I don't want to push my boundaries here.

I don't want to push the buttons even more because we haven't discussed this part.

But

I would like her to tone it down for meeting the in-laws, yes.

Which I plan on doing.

I mean, part of the evidence I submitted is photos of with me, with my family.

Certain occasions, I do tone down my appearance.

You know, I will wear just all black.

I will even sometimes wear a dress and I will do less accessories.

But the hair is still the hair.

Like the bridal shower picture that you submitted.

Yeah, I just wore an all-black, you know, I wore like a cardigan and stuff.

I didn't even put like any makeup or anything like that on.

In this bridal shower picture, I noticed you have something around your neck, Sarah.

Is that a snitch?

Yes, it is.

Yeah, good.

I got the eye.

Still got the eye, Jesse.

I don't know my chemical romance, but I still gave the snitch when I snitched.

All right, I'm going to go commune with the basilisk in my chamber of secrets.

I'll be back in a moment with Line Ferris.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Sarah, how are you feeling about your chances?

I'm on either side.

I'm really scared, to be honest, because I'm real close to the wedding and Bridezilla is coming out.

So if I don't get my way, I don't know how I'm going to react, but I'm very hopeful.

Have we had any Bridezilla incidents already?

Very minor.

A few.

Not too bad.

This might be the first, first big one.

So we'll see.

This is a referendum on Bridezilla, it sounds like.

Morgan, how are you feeling?

I'm actually not too sure.

I came in pretty confident, and now I'm a little split.

I really, I don't know.

Well, we'll see what Judge Sean Hodgman has to say about it when we come back in just a second.

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Dum dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dum.

That's all we can play.

That's all we can play, John.

You don't have ASCAP BMI.

Sorry if I just caused the complete liquidation of maximum fun, but I had to do it.

Is Is that going to be what you go down the aisle to, Sarah?

No.

That's actually a genius idea, though.

Oh, I'm sure it's been done a gazillion times.

True.

I'm very glad that your theming of the wedding is low-key theming, that you're not all wearing

robes

and so forth.

That it is an expression of something that you and Mark really enjoy together, but it is not going to be overwhelming your style of the wedding because all that stuff has been done before.

And what a wedding is about is not, I mean, to a degree, it is the pageantry, it is the excitement and the generosity to your friends and family members that you get to show and shower them with past hors d'oeuvres and gratefulness that they're there.

But it's also about acknowledging the real bond that you are making with a different person.

This is a hard one because I do respect, especially that, you know, when people are throwing their wedding, brides and grooms are brides and brides, and grooms and grooms, or thems and they're, or whoever the couple that are getting married.

And I suppose more than one.

I mean, I'm just trying to be open to everything.

But, you know, the people who are getting married really do have the right, I think, and the privilege to curate the day, to create the day that is going to feel special to them while also being generous to everyone else.

And you don't want a lot of wild, wacky chaos sowers out there trying to make it all about them.

Whether that person is

maybe getting too drunk at the bar and insisting on making toasts that have not been pre-approved, or whether that is a person who is dressed counter the theme.

If you're throwing a Harry Potter, light Harry Potter theme, you don't want someone wandering in from the Maze Runner.

And yet, I have to balance your right to curate your day, and I say you, because you're the one I'm speaking to, and Mark seems, you know, utterly subservient to you and acquiescent to whatever you desire, which is one way to begin a marriage, Against the expression of personhood that is your sister and has been established for a long, long, long period of time.

Like, this is who your sister is.

And while you are not the same person, you have come to love her as she is, she obviously has genuine and clearly generous desire to be your helper in this and not to overshadow you.

She is not trying to be a maze runner in your Harry Potter universe.

She's trying to be herself.

And I think, in fact, she's shown remarkable self-modulation to different situations in terms of how she expresses herself.

I mean, there's some serious mohawk pictures in here.

You know what I mean?

Like, this could have happened.

She could have been that sister.

It's like, I can't believe you're not letting me totally wear my mohawk all the way up.

And otherwise be dressed up as

I'm trying to to think of some good cultural reference, Jesse.

What's one?

Geez, I guess the only cultural reference I really know is Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home.

Does it fit with that at all?

Thank you.

Yes, she could have said, like, I'm sorry, it's my expression of myself to dress as buspunk number two,

the great Kirk Thatcher at your wedding.

I still would be, even though that would be, I think, ungenerous to one sister, I still would be in the same bond of balancing rights: your right to curate your day and your sister's right to curate herself and her life.

Here is the thing that I can say about both of you.

First of all,

even if I did not have all of this evidence to look at,

you're both wonderful human beings, and it's going to be great.

It's going to be a great day.

It's going to be a great day.

Your sister loves you, and I could be saying that to either one of you, and it would be true, right?

You both

tend to shy away for obvious reasons on commenting on people's superficial looks.

as I am a man and you both identify as women, it is a dangerous game to play.

But I'm going to say you both look amazing.

You have incredible style, both of you, in completely different ways.

And all these photos, I'm like, that's a wedding I want to go to because those both look like great people.

And I'm going to say that, you know, from Mohawk up to Mohawk down, Morgan, you've got incredible taste.

And I'll say, Sarah, like that outfit that you're wearing with the golden snitch is is so different from Morgan and so totally you.

I think the way you express yourselves and yet are still such close friends is really, really wonderful.

And I think that you have to let your sister express herself.

She is given a lot of ground already.

She's wearing a dress that is within your color palette.

It is basically matching in color to your other attendance dresses.

She has offered to remove her piercing.

And I think you should take her up on that offer.

Because with great respect, Morgan, I think it's an incredible statement, but it is a capital S statement.

And the fact that you offered without prompting to like, maybe I'll take this out and leave this be shows a lot of generosity of spirit.

And I think that that is one area where certain conservative grandmoms would be like, I want to enjoy this wedding, but I have to talk about the thing on her nose.

You know, like, that's an incredibly generous thing.

I got to hold the line with the hair.

I'm sorry, Sarah.

I know, I know it's your day, and I do not want to get roasted Bridezilla style.

I get it.

But I know, hang on.

It's going to be okay.

Because I don't think that there has been a time in your sister's life when she has not modified her hair in some way.

It's who she is.

And you are entwining your family with Mark's.

And Mark's family may find that challenging.

But honestly, in this day and age, if you put that photo of Morgan in the bridesmaid's dress with that purple hair and put that up on a social media platform.

I think most people just stand up and applaud.

She looks great.

She looks great.

It's going to be fantastic.

I promise you.

And I urge you to take your sister's word at its value, which is

you are going to totally shine.

You will not be overshadowed by your punk younger sister anymore.

There is no doubt this is your day.

And you're very lucky that I did not order that she dress up as Snape because that would be

amazing.

That is the bullet that you dodged down in Denton, Texas today.

By all rights, by theming, by who your sister is, who is another character that you could have gone as, Morgan, that would have been appropriate to your style?

Bellatrix Lestrange.

Yeah, Bellatrix Lestrange.

That's the one I was looking for.

Oh, I really want to drop the gavel on Bellatrix Lestrange.

That would be so incredible.

Sarah, I think you should really consider that

before you despair.

I could consider it.

I mean, she could be Bellatrix.

She just can't be my maid of honor.

Oh, no.

I understand why this ruling may be difficult to take, but I think your sister has given considerable ground and I think her motives are good.

And I don't want you to go into your wedding thinking for a moment that one streak of purple hair is going to take anyone's eyes off of you.

Certainly, no one's going to be looking at Mark because, as far as I can tell, he doesn't exist.

So, unfortunately, I find, well, no, I say, fortunately, I find in Morgan's favor, if the look that you're presenting is the one that you presented in the evidence, I say, go forth.

And I say, nope, no piercing.

I think I'll take you up on that offer.

I can't rule on whether the spacer or not.

I think probably if you can just do without anything on the bridge of your nose or wear a decorative pince nes instead, do that.

But you're working hard to honor your sister on a very special day.

And I think that deserves a certain small measure of reciprocity.

And you know, Sarah, what you'll learn is as soon as that wedding starts is some of it's going to go exactly as you dreamed and a lot of it isn't.

And what doesn't go the way you imagined is probably going to be the most memorable stuff.

That's what the big question mark of joining your life with someone else and joining your life with someone else's family is all about, is that wild and exciting question mark.

And that's what Morgan's always been in your life, and that's how it's going to continue.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Morgan, how do you feel?

I feel great.

This is definitely what I wanted.

I can absolutely am okay with taking out the piercing as long as I get to keep my hair.

And I completely agree with the judge.

I mean, this is about Sarah, and she's going to look amazing regardless of how I look.

Have you ever thought about doing your hair like specifically within the color palette at the wedding?

Maybe a navy blue?

I did discuss that as like kind of to be funny and monotonous, but I think it would be a little too much.

Sarah, how do you feel?

I feel

good.

I'm lying a little bit.

I'm okay.

I'm very open to this whole thing.

I'm going to listen to the judge.

I swore into it.

And,

but I'm a little, I'm a little, I thought I would get this.

I thought this was all, I thought I had this right in the basket.

So I'm a little shocked.

Sarah, I think what you'll find, speaking of someone who went through a wedding once in my life,

is that

a wedding is a celebration of you, the bride.

It is a celebration of your partnership with your spouse to be.

And it's also a celebration of the community in which you inhabit.

It is about this group of people who have made you who you are and who will

hopefully sustain you through your marriage.

And it's wonderful from my perspective that your sister, who you love so much so clearly,

will bring something of herself to that celebration.

This is true.

Yeah.

I think you're going to have fun, Sarah.

Everybody's going to be throwing you up in the air or whatever.

It's going to be a fun thing.

It'll be great.

It'll be great.

It'll definitely be fun no matter what.

So I'm really excited.

Here's the truth, Sarah.

All weddings are perfect.

That's why people like weddings.

That's all I expect.

A wedding in a flooded basement is beautiful.

That's all I expect.

perfection.

Sarah Morgan, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books.

In a minute, Swift Justice.

First, our thanks to Michael Landy for naming this week's episode Right to Redress.

If you'd like to name a future episode like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, you can also follow us on Twitter.

John is at Hodgman.

I am at Jesse Thorne.

John is on Instagram at John Hodgman.

You should hashtag your tweets, hashtag JJ Ho, and check out the Maximum Fun subreddit.

That's at maximumfund.reddit.com to chat about this week's episode.

The show is on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman, where you can see the evidence for this week's case and other fun stuff.

This week's episode was recorded by Paul Rogers at Addict of Sounds.

Our producer is Hannah Smith.

Our editor is Jesus Ambrosio.

And we also want to congratulate our on-leave producer, Jen,

on the birth of her beautiful child.

Oh, is that why she's been away all this time?

Yeah, she was making a human life.

Oh, she was experiencing the magic of childbirth with her husband and her dog, George?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I guess I can't be mad anymore.

I just miss her, that's all.

Of course.

Congratulations, Jennifer Marmor.

Congratulations, Jennifer.

Thank you, Tahanna, for filling in.

She's doing a wonderful job.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment.

Jeff says, After daylight savings in both autumn and spring, I like to say things like, This time last week, it'd be lunchtime instead of whatever time it currently is.

I sometimes do this months after the fact as well, when literally no one is expecting it.

I'm often met with groans whenever I do this.

Am I a human monster?

Groan.

Groan.

Groan.

Yeah, you are, Jeff.

Stop it.

Yeah, it's annoying.

Don't be annoying.

Don't be.

You know that.

I mean,

if you didn't know that it was annoying, if it was like a joke you were trying out or like a fun thing you were going to give a twirl, if you didn't have feedback already in the form of groans, then no harm, no foul, as they say in podcasting.

But all harm, all foul.

Use language to be precise and don't confuse people on purpose for your own amusement.

I feel like you wrote that in just to be yelled at.

So you got what you wanted, Jeff.

Groan.

You know what my principle is?

If your bit is going to be antagonizing and annoying people, you'd better be Elliot Kalen.

You mean co-host of iPodius, the 12-episode special miniseries about the TV show I Claudius that Ellie and I are recording together as we speak, and we hope we'll drop all episodes by Saturnalia this year?

Yeah, that's exactly the guy I'm talking about.

Oh, good.

I'm glad I got that plug-in.

Hashtag always be plugging.

Is that about it for this week's episode?

Yeah, you can submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO or email Hodgman at maximumfund.org.

No case is too small.

Look, we'll do the deciding.

You send in the question.

We'll do the deciding.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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