Achoodication

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, a choo-decation.

Luke files suit against Stephanie.

Stephanie refuses to say, bless you, when someone sneezes.

Luke thinks it's a pleasant practice in which she should engage.

She says, it's annoying.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and joins me, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, in presenting an obscure cultural reference.

Judge Hodgman, that's a very nice hat you're wearing, and I don't mean that in an Eddie Haskell type way.

Thanks.

Shut your piehole.

Oh, Bailiff Jesse, swear them in.

Luke and Stephanie, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that while he is both myth and legend, he is not man, but merely an incorporal form of pure justice?

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Luke and Stephanie, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that Jesse mostly paraphrased and I helped out with as I entered the courtroom.

Luke, you bring the case.

Why don't we start with you?

Judge, I am going to guess an episode of Happy Days.

An episode of Happy Days, a television show.

Any particular episode?

The Eddie Haskell reference made me think of television, so just any old episode of Happy Trace.

That was a Leave it to Beaver thing, but that's cool.

Happy Days.

We'll put it in there.

I wonder whether Leave-It-Beaver existed in the Happy Days of Everse.

They could have watched that.

I think the timing could have worked.

They could have made an Eddie Haskell reference.

Interesting guess.

What about you, Stephanie?

Do you have a guess for the guess book?

You can guess leave it to beaver or something else.

I would suggest something else.

Okay, I'll go with my prepared answer, which is an excerpt from the book Quiet by Susan Kane.

That's an interesting guess.

I was going to lead you down a garden path to help you guess a better guess, but that one's too interesting to pass up.

Even though it and all of your guesses are wrong, I apologize.

I was quoting from a movie.

What is your age?

Is if I may ask?

You can ballpark it for me.

I am 39.

Steph is 38, about to turn 39 in November.

What decade would you say is most known for metacultural references, such as referencing Eddie Haskell?

Children of the 80s?

Children of the 80s, yes.

I'm thinking the 90s.

That was the birthplace of Mystery Science Theater 3000, after all, which is not what this reference is.

What movie made in 1992 about grunge rockers looking for love in Seattle featured a plot line where all Bridget Fonda wants is someone who will say, bless you, after she sneezes.

Singles.

Singles.

Singles.

Yes, you got it.

Well done, babe.

Yeah, well done.

So I find in your favor.

Bye-bye.

Good podcast.

We did it, Jesse.

Do you want to get a cup of coffee?

Yeah, I don't drink coffee, but yeah, I mean, I get some herbal tea or something.

I apologize.

You know, I get a cookie, you know, whatever.

I thought we could go down to that favorite overstuffed couch 90s coffee shop called

Migraine Triggers with a Z for triggers.

But no, let's meanwhile stay here in the present day of 2019.

If you're listening from the far future or the past, Time Travelers, we're in 2019 right now.

And Luke brings a case against Stephanie regarding something she does not like.

Tell me about the case, Luke.

So, Judge, I'm bringing the case against my wife, Stephanie, because she refuses to say bless you when she hears someone sneeze.

And I guess I'm bringing the case for two main reasons.

First, as kind of needy and childish as it may sound, I wish that she would tell me bless you after I sneeze.

And that could have something to do with the fact that I grew up in the South and come from kind of a bless you family.

And then the second reason, and perhaps more importantly, I feel that Steph is kind of missing out.

on the goodwill surrounding the bless you experience.

And by that, I mean it just feels nice to give and receive bless you's, not just to friends and families, but also to strangers.

And it's kind of a way of creating empathy and goodwill to our fellow human beings in the world, which is something we could maybe use more of these days.

So I'd just like for Steph to get in on the enjoyment of the bless you experience.

Just get in on the enjoyment of religion regarding sneezing.

Not God bless you.

It doesn't have to be religious, just some kind of acknowledgement.

Could be the Great Void, bless you.

Satan, bless you.

Yeah.

Cthulhu bless you.

Odin bless you.

Yes, absolutely.

All right.

When Stephanie sneezes, you say bless you, and Stephanie, you go, oh, stop it.

Yeah.

Well, because I feel like at this point, it's like he's trying to tease me.

Oh, and he's trolling you with his blessings.

Yeah, he's trolling me.

Because he knows you don't like it.

I think he does it as a reaction, but he knows that he's teasing me.

You guys are married, it says here.

Yes.

Legally wed in 2016.

You've been together since 2012.

Is all that accurate?

Correct.

That is correct.

How long has this been a problem in your relationship?

Probably not since day one, because you don't mention things like that until about month three or four, I don't know, of dating.

No, all the magazines say don't sneeze in front of your man for at least two years.

Yeah.

So sneezing day one, talking about it month six, say.

I don't know.

Okay, so quite a few years.

And why do you dislike it so much?

Or being blessed by him?

It's not that I mind the being blessed so much.

It doesn't come naturally for me to say it.

That's kind of why I don't say it.

Like, I don't think to say it.

And when he does it, then it's fine.

It's not that I mind it.

It's just that then I have to kind of respond to and say, oh, thank you, you know, or like, and if he's in the other room, and then I have to yell across the room, thank you.

And the whole interaction is just kind of unnecessary, it seems to me.

What's your natural reaction when someone sneezes?

Contempt?

Nothing.

It's just another noise in the world.

Just there's lots of noises in the world and it just kind of passes me by, just like someone coughing or someone dropping a cup across the room.

It's not like you're a lion looking for the most sickly wildebeest.

No, no, it's just like it just passes.

through the world, just like any other loud noise.

I had understood this to be that you disliked him saying bless you to you, but also your begrudge being expected to say bless you to him.

Yeah.

Which is more important to you so that I know, like that he should, that he should lay off the expectation that you bless him?

Correct.

Yes, that's the more important.

You don't mind being told bless you when you sneeze because once again, just another noise in the world.

Or you mind it less.

Do you have feelings about sneezing in general?

Is this a loaded topic for you?

No, it doesn't weird me out or anything like that.

Okay.

Part of the reason that blessings are offered after a sneeze historically, culturally, in the West is that a sneeze is a weird involuntary spasm.

You know, in ancient Grecian times, you were considered to be touched by one of the gods when you sneezed.

It was a good omen.

Whereas what I remember from my fifth grade urban folklore was that in medieval times, sneezing was an involuntary spasm that meant you might be being possessed by a demon and therefore quick, quick bless you.

It is a powerful thing in certain cultures, but not to you.

It is obviously powerful to Luke, but you think he should get over himself.

Yeah, I mean, to me, it's not any different from like coughing or like, I don't know, having the hiccups or burping or something.

Like, it's just

a thing that happens, you know?

Part of our gross reality.

Right.

Hey, Luke, do you say things when Stephanie coughs or burps or farts?

No, I don't, Judge.

So you sent in some evidence and I have these photos here.

And of course these photos are available on the Judge John Hodgman page at maximumfund.org as well as on our Instagram page, Instagram.com, famous website slash judgejohnhodgman.

And at first glance, I'm looking at these two photos, and the first one is like, oh, brother, these people are now just sending in pictures of animals for no reason, has nothing to do with the case.

Because they just want Jesse to react to the cute animals.

What a monster I've created.

Well, there are two cute cats here.

Jesse, can you see these cats?

Lucy and Mouse.

Oh.

Yeah.

It's cute.

They're sleeping butt to butt, as you pointed out.

Who sent in this picture?

I guess we're going to do that.

I guess we did as a joint effort.

Jointly?

Oh, yeah, okay.

Whoever it is wrote in, some folks are allergic to cats and cause them to sneeze.

Like, that's a stretch, you guys.

Stop it.

I'm happy to look at those cute cats sleeping butt to butt.

How old are they?

About three and about 13, almost.

Oh, wow.

How about that?

And they get along okay?

They do.

Yeah.

Well, that's good to know.

But then you send in another photo, which I'm very glad you sent in.

This is, quote, a picture of the drawer where our handkerchiefs live along with our koozies.

Steph and I, Luke, you're writing here, obviously, are both big handkerchief users.

They come in handy after a good sneeze and hopefully a bless you.

Yeah, I got the message there, Luke.

This drawer is a picture of obsession.

And not just one obsession with handkerchiefs, but another, I would say, even more puzzling obsession, koozies for beverage cans.

You have a lot of both, and they're both stored together in one drawer.

John, does your home not have a koozie and a handkerchief drawer?

Sure, no.

I mean, of course I have my Hankuzi cubby.

I mean, every home built since the Victorian era has had one of those.

In my Hankuzi cubby, I only keep like 20 to 30 of each.

And for those of you who are listening at home who don't know what a beer koozie or a beverage koozie is, it's like an insulated sock that you put onto a cold beverage can to keep it cold.

Has nothing to do with sneezing, has nothing to do with personal hygiene, but it's nothing to do with anything, but it's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, at least eight in there,

and then probably one and a half times as many handkerchiefs.

Why do you have so many handkerchiefs, Luke?

Well, actually, the koozies are kind of more, I take responsibility for those because along with koozies and also t-shirts, I kind of use them as collectibles.

So when I go to a, I don't know, a neat place or someone gives me one for free, I'll put it in the koozie drawer.

And it's the same with with t-shirts.

And I must admit that the responsibility for the handkerchiefs belongs to Steph.

She put me kind of on track with using handkerchiefs and it's something that I really enjoy, but I'll toss it over to her.

Something I really enjoy.

I mean, I have handkerchiefs too.

They're great.

And of course, as anyone who visits the Put This On shop knows, a pocket square or a bandana or a neckerchief can be a great accessory.

But Stephanie, Stephanie, tell me about your love of hankies.

Well, ours are fully utilitarian.

They're not for looks.

But in the winter, you got to go through a few a day.

So that's why the volume is there.

Are these cotton or linen?

Cotton.

Upgrade your lifestyle.

And also, Judge, if I may add another reason for the volume is for some reason, at the end of the day, I'll end up with like four handkerchiefs in my pockets.

It's kind of like I'll just put one in my pocket and forget about it and then get another one.

I know I'm not doing myself any favor here, but that kind of adds to the need for the volume because I have sticky hands and fingers when it comes to handkerchiefs, I guess.

Wait a minute, do you mean literally sticky or you're stealing them from?

No,

I'm not sure which is which is better.

I have sticky hands and I'm a thief.

Yeah, they just end up in my pockets.

And the reason why it was a big deal to me is I was coming from a place where when I would sneeze and I need to try to not to gross anyone anyone out, but like maybe use like a cotton, like a cotton napkin or something.

And so when you go from using a cotton napkin to a nice hanky, it's really an upgrade.

You haven't used a nice hanky.

We just confirmed that you're using cotton instead of linen.

Cotton is more flexible and pliable.

It's thinner.

A linen handkerchief is going to be softer.

It's going to be more absorbent.

It's an overall better handkerchief experience.

Not that there's anything wrong fundamentally with a cotton handkerchief other than it not being the superior linen handkerchief.

It will still work.

Cotton dries faster, though.

Linen dries faster.

Sorry, I hate to correct all of your textile assumptions, but as a textile professional, I have to say you're wrong on all fronts.

Luke and Stephanie, permission to privately address my bailiff for a moment, please.

Sure.

Thank you.

Jesse, I wear linen shirts from time to time, and they're scratchy to me, and my cotton shirts are soft.

How is it what you're saying can be true?

Well, you're probably not wearing particularly high-quality linen shirts.

That's probably true.

But linen certainly is more absorbent and dries faster.

Those are two of the great reasons to use linen.

The main reason we don't use linen in shirts as much is simply that it wrinkles much more, which is not an issue with handkerchiefs.

And the put this on handkerchief that I found last night on my laundry pile, would that be a linen handkerchief?

Yeah, our kind of go-to, the sort of first put this-on pocket square is white linen.

And that is white Irish linen.

It's the good stuff.

I would say, like, if people are looking for something to blow their nose on, you could go on Etsy or eBay or another second-hand store and look for old linen handkerchiefs that are still in their bags or boxes.

You might be surprised at how freely available they are and how affordable they are just because they were a common gift item and the way that people blew their nose until the 70s or so.

You don't want to carry around a little linen sachet of snot in your pocket all day long?

I understand.

They're better to me than the Kleenexes and the disposable tissues just make me sneeze more.

They just give off that tissue dust.

I'm saying tissue in a funny way on purpose.

That's not how I actually say tissue.

I'm sorry.

Thank you, Luke and Stephanie, for let me clarifying that with my good friend and bailiff Jesse Thorne.

I want to get back to what's saying here, Luke.

Your upgrade was not to linen, but in fact to a cotton handkerchief from a cotton table napkin, which leads me to believe that either you had previously been walking around with table napkins in your pockets, wrong, or you had been stealing table napkins from restaurants, wrong, or you had been blowing your nose in cloth napkins at restaurants, which is wrongest of all.

Which were you?

Wrong, wrong, or wrongest?

I'd have to go with wrongest, Judge.

What I was thinking of when I said that is, you know, when you go to a kind of a fast food establishment and they give you napkins along with whatever you're ordering.

You're talking about paper napkins.

Paper napkins.

Not cotton.

Sorry, Judge.

That was the upgrade for me.

Paper napkins to cotton handkerchiefs.

And you both, you live in Tennessee.

Is that what it says here?

We live in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Chattanooga, Tennessee?

A man on an airplane who was going back to Chattanooga told me Chattanooga was Broadbandville, USA.

Is that true?

Fiber optic.

stem to stern down there in Chattanooga.

That's correct.

Yeah.

That is correct.

It's one of the many wonderful things about our great city.

Tell me one other one.

Not that I'm skeptical.

I just am curious.

It's just a beautiful city.

It's nestled in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains along the Tennessee River.

Lots of things to do outdoors.

Two weekends ago, we went rafting down the Ocoee River, hiking, you know, world-class climbing.

I feel like I'm a member of the Chattanooga Tourism Board, but it really is a wonderful place.

Eastern Tennessee?

Yes, southeastern Tennessee.

Mountain area.

Yes.

Right.

And how about choo-choos?

You have any choo-choos there?

Yeah, we do.

Great city for choo-choos.

How far are you from Knoxville?

About an hour and a half.

Oh, I liked Knoxville a lot.

I haven't been there for a long time.

I'll have to come see you guys.

You can borrow one of our handkerchiefs if you come visit.

Can I use your computer?

I need to download some files.

Sounds good.

All right.

And what do you do there in Tennessee, Stephanie?

I work for the state of Tennessee in the Division of Air Pollution Control.

Oh, all right.

And Luke, how do you spend your time aside from working for the Chattanooga Choo-Choo Choo Tourist Board?

I'm an attorney.

So the reason I asked about where you were from is like, where are you getting your paper napkins from before?

Any good chains?

Any good local mom-and-pop burger joints that I should know about?

Or, you know, if you're just going to Sonic or whatever, I don't know.

Waffle House?

You have a Waffle House there?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Have several waffle houses, and they do have a high-quality paper napkin.

Yeah.

And what drawer do you keep all your stolen Waffle House napkins in?

The one just below our koozi handkerchief drawer.

Let's take a quick recess.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Court is back in session.

Let's return to the courtroom.

for more justice.

So who does the laundry in this house?

We both do.

So Stephanie, is there ever a a case where you're throwing some laundry in or taking some laundry out of the dryer that belongs to Luke and you discover that his pockets are stuffed with koozies and handkerchiefs?

Every single week, yeah.

Really?

All the time.

Yeah.

How did the koozies and the handkerchiefs come to live together?

We'll get back to your case in a minute, but there's a lot that I did.

How did you decide, oh, you got your koozie on my handkerchief.

You got your handkerchief next to my koozie.

Hey, you know what?

This tastes great.

They're accessible to everyone in the house.

We actually got rid of a lot.

We Marie condoed those koozies at one point.

You're talking about simplifying your life by getting rid of things you don't really need anymore?

Like koozies, excessive amounts.

So you got rid of a lot of koozies?

Yes, and we still have a lot, yeah.

And Steph really, to be fair, doesn't really ever use the koozies.

Those are primarily mine.

And like I say, they're kind of more...

collectibles to a degree, but also we have friends over and you know a lot of times people want koozies so they're useful things to have around but I guess I should kind of take more responsibility for

the number of koozies.

So when you're at a party at Luke and Stephanie's, you might be going around.

Anybody?

Koozie?

Kerchief?

Koozie?

Hanky?

Yeah, right.

A couple of the koozies are from friends' weddings, so they're kind of mementos.

A few are from trips that we've been on.

And like I said, I kind of have a koozie and a t-shirt problem.

As long as you've got a system, then there's no problem.

I don't think you have a problem.

As you know, the precedent on the Judge John Hodgman podcast is what separates a hoarder from a collector is a display mechanism.

I'll tell you this, John.

The precedent on the Judge John Hodgman podcast certainly isn't, as long as you've got a system, there's no problem.

No, but it's, I mean to say specifically a system that his koozy fascination isn't out of control.

They're stored neatly and they are in use.

How many handkerchiefs do you think a person should have, Jesse Thorne?

Well, I mean, it depends on how often you're carrying a handkerchief.

I don't have particularly severe seasonal allergies, so I'm really only carrying one when I have a full-on cold, in which case, case, you know, five or six is plenty.

I just do the laundry regularly.

But I think given the lifestyle we've heard described on this episode so far, which is pretty sneezing-centric, then it seems like the number that they have, which looks like maybe 15 or 20, is pretty appropriate.

It would suggest that sneezing is a big part of your lives.

Do you have allergies, Luke?

Do you sneeze a lot?

Does Stephanie sneeze a lot?

I don't have allergies, and I wouldn't say that we sneeze more than usual, would you, babe?

No, I don't think we're big time.

I don't think we have major allergies.

I think we have a little bit of allergies, but we live in an area that's got a lot of pollen during allergy seasons.

Yeah, that's what I heard about Chattanooga, pollen town, broadband pollen town.

Yeah.

Do you ever say bless you to Luke?

I absolutely do.

I have been doing it, especially since he brought this case against me.

Why have you been doing it, especially since he brought the case against you?

Because,

well, okay, so when I do it, though, it's not natural and it's not probably out of kindness.

I know he's expecting it and it's kind of like there's a anticipation in the room until it happens.

So I have to like finish his sneeze by saying, bless you, or it's never going to be finished.

Luke, how do you feel if you sneeze and you hear nothing?

Well, I...

To be fair, this has been going on for several years.

So I don't really, and I feel like I've kind of poisoned the well when it comes to the bless you's with regard to Steph because the first time I sneezed around Stephanie and like there was kind of no acknowledgement or anything I literally thought I was like huh she she just must not have heard me because I mean that's just what that's what people are you know that's just the thing you do and then after a few times I was like huh so I finally addressed it and Steph does not come from a bless you family so I certainly recognize that my kind of it's I wouldn't call it a need but it's certainly it sounds needy and childish but that's not the only reason I brought the case.

Perhaps an even more important reason is that I really do think that it's a good way to kind of promote goodwill towards fellow humans, even if they're perfect strangers.

And you can kind of identify bless you people.

Say you're in like an elevator and someone sneezes, and then you hear somebody else in the elevator say bless you.

You're like, oh, that's my people.

You know, that's a kind of person that's a person that gets it.

You're correct that it's a fairly common courtesy.

I mean, I would say,

you know, honestly, Stephanie, I mean, is the term bless you in particular offensive to you?

I just kind of feel like it shouldn't be another person's sort of responsibility to respond to everyone else's sneeze.

Like, I think the sneeze is your sneeze, and it's your kind of, you should say, excuse me, like you would if you coughed or anything else.

You see a sneeze as a matter of personal responsibility?

Well, I mean, I just don't think it should necessarily be my responsibility to kind of say something about it all the time.

Right.

That's the American dream, to live free of the burden of other people's sneezes.

Right.

That's why we pressed ever westward to get further and further from sneezers.

I don't mind if everyone's sneezing around me.

I just don't think they should expect that I should say something to them.

You don't think your tax dollars should go to their sneezes.

Correct.

A sneeze on your part does not constitute an empathy emergency on my part.

What do you think, Luke?

I mean, you travel through the world obviously much more attuned to this issue than I am.

I feel like sneezing in mean New York City is, well, it's pretty common that someone will say bless you or something like that.

And in my experience, and like I said, I think maybe even more so in the South, it's kind of a common courtesy.

So not hearing it maybe stands out a little bit more to me than someone who else, you know, maybe another part of the country where they're not, if there is such a part of the country where they're not as accustomed to saying bless you.

What parts of the country are you you talking?

I feel like I'm getting into some real cultural code here.

I wasn't meaning to speak in code, only to say that, like I said, I think perhaps the South has a reputation of being, you know, maybe more courteous.

Well, I think the South uses more flourish sometimes in their language.

Like you'll say, honey and baby and darling and all that stuff.

Yeah, like bless your heart.

You wouldn't say bless your heart after a sneeze.

Well, if it was a particularly foolish sneeze.

Well, bless your heart sneezing again.

People say bless you all the time here in New York City.

We're real America, too, you know.

I know.

No disrespect.

But, I mean, I feel like I didn't quite drill down on what I wanted to ask you, Stephanie, which is, is there an element to

the religious component of bless you that makes you more uncomfortable, say, than gesunteit, which is like good health, or can I get you a hanky from my drawer or something?

Is there an extra charge to bless you than anything else you might say?

Or is that not an issue for you?

So like I've been told, and the reason I use my prepared answer, that book quiet, is that I've been told I was quiet my whole life.

And so I asked my sister about this issue.

And does she say, bless you?

And her response was, only if I know they can hear me.

And for me, that was really like interesting because I'm like, it's been a problem for me, especially, you know, and if I'm, and if certainly if there's other people in the area, they'll always say, bless you, and I'll never have to say it.

But if it's just me alone with someone and they're like across the room or in another room, then I'll have to like yell.

And I really don't want to have to do that.

You know, like, I just would rather just be in my own little like world, just stay where I was in my mind, thinking whatever I was doing, washing the dishes, rather than yell across the house when someone sneezes.

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Not to be too presumptuous, but based on your voice, I would guess that you are not from one of the misanthropic coastal elite cities where people don't say honey baby to each other all the time.

It sounds like you might be from Tennessee or from the American South.

Is that true or do I have that wrong?

Yeah, I grew up in Chattanooga.

You grew up in Chattanooga.

All right.

Did you grow up as well, Luke, in Chattanooga?

Yes, yes, I did.

Oddly enough, I had a lot of mutual friends growing up, but it wasn't until after I came back from law school that we both kind of connected.

Lovely.

So this is not a difference in your broader cultural upbringing.

You're both from the exact same hometown.

It's just that.

Well, go ahead, please.

My parents didn't say, bless you.

They're not from the South necessarily.

My mom is from New York.

Oh, okay.

One of those creeps.

So she would say, hey, I'm walking here.

I don't think that's why I shouldn't say it because I've surveyed other family members, her sisters and my cousins and stuff, and they do say it.

So that's not why.

But to me, it's not so much a geographic issue.

It's more of an introversion, perhaps.

To me, a sneeze doesn't have to be like transactional.

Has anyone outside your relationship noticed or commented on the presence or lack of bless yous?

Has this been noted by anyone who is not Luke?

No, but I've asked my brother and sister if they say it too, because I told them that he always brings it up.

My two younger siblings said that it's crazy, and they never say it.

And,

you know, their

significant others or spouses don't seem to mind.

Just Luke is hung up on it.

Right.

Now that it's become such a thing, when he says, bless you, do you feel like he's teasing you or trolling you?

Yeah.

Does he like go over the top in any way?

Does he say it in a particularly like

blessing?

Yes.

Yeah, he says, blessing.

He says, doesn't that feel nice to hear that?

Oh,

oh,

oh, oh.

Would you say that Luke is more extroverted than you are?

Yes.

Hmm.

Interesting.

And Luke, there's one thing I wanted to drill down on again as well.

Let's say you were to sneeze right now and there was total silence.

Or let me put it this way.

When you sneeze and it's just you and Stephanie in the room and there's just dead silence, how do you feel?

I'll go back to how I felt, you know, right when I discovered this.

I don't want to call it an issue.

That's probably too strong a word, but it kind of made me feel like confused, I guess, and a little, you know, just kind of

not acknowledged in a way that I am used to being acknowledged, which again, I realize sounds kind of needy and childish.

And it's such a simple thing to do.

I mean, it's literally just saying two words.

So I guess I didn't understand why Steph, knowing that it's an important thing to me, as I guess as silly as that may sound, like why she couldn't just kind of humor me and say it.

Interesting.

See, what I was trying to get at was like, did you feel, because it's such a cultural touchstone, it's such a cultural habit in your growing up for someone to say, bless you after you sneeze, that you might feel a little anxious to hear silence, a little like there's something missing in this this communication circuit, or maybe a little worried that you're going to be possessed by a demon unless Stephanie speaks up.

Right.

And I'll acknowledge that there's certainly a degree on my end, just because I was so accustomed to it, maybe of almost like superstition, where even if I hear someone sneeze, and this might sound odd and weird, but whatever.

Like if I hear someone sneeze, I'll still kind of under my breath say, bless you to them, even if I know they they can't hear me because I think that like there's maybe some kind of superstition, like neuroses that I have.

So, and I hate to make you know, Steph kind of bear that burden of kind of itching that scratch.

But yeah, like you said, if I if I sneeze and I don't hear anything, like it is kind of like

something's just hanging out there, it's anxious.

Are there any other areas in life where you feel possessed by intrusive magical thoughts?

No, I don't think so, Judge.

Any other superstitions?

I will knock on wood.

It's like, you know, I say something, I'll, you know, when I, I don't know, don't want to jinx myself, I'll knock on wood.

Nothing else really springs to mind.

But yeah, I guess to some degree, it is kind of a compulsion that Steph kind of has to bear the brunt of.

So if I were to find in your favor, Luke, you would ask me to order Stephanie to say bless you after you sneeze at the very least.

The order would be just for like a length of time, for maybe like a month or three weeks to kind of like give like meaningful blessings to not just to me but maybe even to other people to see if like she actually enjoys it because I've like I said I feel like I've poisoned the bless you well with Stephanie so but just for her to give it kind of a good faith college effort for a finite period of time and then an evaluation to see if in fact she actually enjoys the practice.

And Stephanie, what would you have me order if I were to rule in your favor?

I would just ask that I be left to kind of decide for myself when I feel comfortable to give out a bless you.

I do say bless you sometimes if I feel like the situation warrants it.

Like my daughter, she said that she'll say it like if she's trapped in an elevator with someone because she feels like it would be awkward not to say anything.

But so like in a situation like that, I will do it.

Like if no one else is around and I'm in close quarters with someone, I will say it just because I know that it's sort of a thing that people expect.

But like at home and stuff like that, I just want to kind of be left to be quiet if I'm being quiet, if I don't want to talk or, you know, holler across the room or whatever.

But at home where you're with your loved one, love means never having to say bless you.

Yeah, kind of, I feel.

Like, you know.

Even though he says it's important to him.

Yeah.

I guess, yeah, he does have this thing where it feels like it's incomplete if it's not said.

I get that.

Is he needy in any other way like this where he needs to be seen or validated?

Maybe a little late to open up this can of worms.

Yeah,

I mean,

not in.

He likes to be told he's doing a good job when he's doing a good job.

You know, he's likes to be thanked for things he does.

Like, probably more so than like the house I grew up in, probably.

Much more acknowledgement went on in his childhood than in mine, probably.

So that's probably the difference, you know.

So like he'll ask to be acknowledged for things that it would never occur to me to like be like, oh, great, you did that.

That's great, you know.

That's very interesting.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I am going to go into my clean room.

of a chambers and get into my hyperbaric chamber and consider this.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Did the two of you know there's a whole Wikipedia article called Response to Sneezing?

And it's just a list of what every culture in the world does.

The infrequent Vietnamese response is, and forgive me Vietnamese speakers for my pronunciation.

I'm looking at it in English and also couldn't read it if it was written in Vietnamese.

Kum Mui,

which means rice with salt.

I like it.

My favorite is Igbo.

And again, apologies to any Igbo speakers, but it's Nndo,

which just means sorry.

I like that one because it's kind of shady, you know, like,

that's on you, dude.

Strong.

I agree with those.

I like

to hear this.

Let's choose from the list.

I'm a big fan of the Spanish language version, which typically the response, at least in Latin America, is salud, which means to health or to your health, just as gusunta does.

But in some places in Latin America, some people say salud the first time, and then the second time they say dinero, and the third time amor, meaning health, money, and love.

I like it.

It's very complicated.

I also like the people who just have, who just have nonsense words, like prosit is what they say in Sweden, and it just has no meaning.

How do you feel about your chances in the case, Stephanie?

I don't know.

Okay,

not

great.

How do you feel about having been forced to make noises this whole time?

Very stressful.

Luke, how are you feeling about your chances?

Not so great, to be honest with you, Jesse.

Not so great.

I know that the judge typically doesn't

like to force people to do things that they don't want to do.

So I think I'm kind of on shaky ground precedentially.

But yeah.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all of it when we come back in just a second on Judge John Hodgman.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lom.

I'm Caroline Roper and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

First of all, Luke, I would like to offer you validation.

I see you.

You did a good job.

Thank you, Judge.

Bless you, Luke.

Stephanie, while you do not need to hear this because you are not addicted addicted to acknowledgement in the way Luke is, I understand that this was stressful to you to some degree as a more introverted person, and you did a great job.

It is, of course, the point of etiquette, the rituals that we have around interactions at the table and in elevators and everywhere else, is to make everyone feel comfortable.

And I think that that's what Luke is trying to get at, which is that this is a polite gesture to say, I hope you're feeling okay, essentially.

But of course, if saying bless you and feeling a social obligation to say thank you to someone else's bless you genuinely makes Stephanie uncomfortable, well, now we've got two issues of comfort that are coming into

collision.

And one of the things that is true about this particular collision is that unlike pardon me and excuse me, which you would naturally say when you farted, burped, or coughed, because you feel a burden for putting your germs and smells into the world, especially if you are in an elevator.

The sneeze is a highly charged thing, as I alluded to earlier.

In Western European culture, at least, this is something that has a certain charge to it.

And I appreciate why it has a certain extra charge to Luke.

I have a hard time saying bless you to people.

And it is because

I try not to use any religiously inflected language.

I am an agnostic.

I lean towards atheism, but I think it is the height of arrogance to suggest that there may not be something outside of our perception in this reality.

And therefore, I simply say, I don't know.

But I do know that when someone sneezes, it's not because Apollo has touched their brow or that Beelzebub is poking this finger, his pointing finger up at your nose.

And to me, it feels weirdly,

I almost want to say heretical to my belief system to bless someone else, even if it's to make them feel nicer.

I don't even know what I would say.

I guess I do say it, but I kind of flinch.

It's charged.

There's superstition involved here.

And I'm not a superstitious person, but I am someone who, until probably the age of 35, still believed somewhere deep in his heart that if I was still in the bathroom after the toilet finished flushing, Satan was going to get me.

I was convinced of this.

Even if you are in the room with your loved one and you know that she's not about to be possessed by the devil, or you're not going to be possessed by the devil, to not hear that conclusion of the culturally established communication cycle, to borrow some Scientology terminology.

Achu gazuntite, achu, bless you.

You can feel a little cut off from there.

I get where you're coming from on this, Luke.

I feel you, okay?

I acknowledge you.

I validate you.

Bless you.

Thank you, Judge.

But you're right.

You poisoned the well, man, because the whole point of this, the whole argument that you're making to me coming into this courtroom is it makes everyone feel good.

doesn't it feel good to say and receive bless yous

it makes everyone feel good and Stephanie's missing out on this

but when you say bless you to her you're not saying it to make her feel good you're saying it to shame her

you're saying doesn't that feel good she doesn't need your bless shaming

if she says it to you fine good if you say it to her be generous i'd like to read to you a little quote from a book it's a short thing from from a book called Medallion Status by me, John Hodgman, the new book by John Hodgman.

Available at bit.ly slash medallion status, all capital letters, all one word.

It'll take you to wherever you like to buy books, whether it's an online retailer or a local indie shop.

And this is about what I learned as an only child who was

addicted to validation and acknowledgement.

What I learned from the audition process when I started to audition for acting roles.

After you say your lines into the camera, sometimes the person in the room is encouraging.

Sometimes they suggest you try it again.

And that is when you know you have failed and you will not get the job.

But mostly the other person in the room has eyes that are distant and inscrutable, and they are silent.

I eventually took this as a kindness.

They don't want you to get your hopes up.

If you grew up as I did, confusing praise with oxygen, the audition room is the utter vacuum of deepest space.

But you can survive there.

This is just general life dope for you, Luke.

Validation, acknowledgement, it can be addictive.

But if you don't get it, you will survive and you'll be stronger if you just make like Stephanie and tolerate silence in all aspects of your life.

You do not need praise or acknowledgement or validation.

You are great.

Bless you.

Thank you, Judge.

That said,

Stephanie, I think you are right to say something in an elevator, lest they figure out that you're an alien from outer space.

In your own home,

I think you should be able to enjoy, at the bare minimum, freedom from teasing on this subject, freedom from trolling, freedom from bless shaming.

This all needs

to be taken down a thousand levels of importance in your relationship in order to get to where you want to be.

Here's what I'm going to order.

For the next three months, no sneeze shall be acknowledged in the house.

This is therapy for you, Luke.

It's like a kind of anti-immersion therapy.

It's a deprivation therapy.

So you can start realizing you can exist in that silence, that no devil is coming for you just because you weren't acknowledged this one time.

And then for three months

after that, when Stephanie sneezes, Luke, you can say, bless you.

Don't be saying, bless you under your breath, because those bless you'ren't for the world.

They're for you.

They are an expression, I think, of superstition more than care for others.

But just say, bless you.

Let him have that.

You do not need to say thank you.

But you might feel you want to.

And if you do, great.

And for those three months, when Luke sneezes and he's in the room, you don't have to say, bless you.

You have to channel your mother's inner New Yorkness and just say, forget about it.

And after that, you can do what you want.

It's your bodies.

It's your noses.

I think you'll come out of this better on the other side, in any case, in terms of respecting each other.

What he wants, which is to just be seen, and what you want, Stephanie, which is to never be seen, or at least not have to go through the burdens of being seen and acknowledging being seen in this highly charged moment of involuntary spasm in which we lose control of our bodies.

It's a weird thing.

Sneezing is a weird thing.

It's a moment of vulnerability in a way that coughing and burping is not.

You are overtaken by a strange spirit when you sneeze.

And some people want to be seen and some people don't want to be seen when that happens.

You need to expect what each other feels feels about their sneezes.

But I will say this, there shall never be, not for the next three months or the following three months or for the rest of time,

any expectation in your home that anyone should have to yell, bless you, from one room to another.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Luke.

This is a pretty clear rebuke.

How are you feeling?

I appreciate the judge's honesty and candor, and I'm quite frankly not surprised.

And I think that perhaps after this six-month period, hopefully the well will no longer be poisoned.

But it's kind of what I was expecting, but he really, as he does, he put it in a much more eloquent way than I ever could.

So I'm good with it.

Stephanie, how do you feel?

I feel good.

All I wanted is to be able to be sincere.

especially at home.

And, you know, if that means not saying anything or saying something either way.

Luke and Stephanie, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books.

Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank Steve Runyon for naming this week's episode a judication.

If you'd like to name a future episode, you can like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets.

Hashtag JJ H O.

I'll have have seen what people have to say about the show.

You can also check out the Max Fund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com to discuss this episode.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman, the perfect place for superfluous pictures of butt-to-butt cats.

Make sure to follow us there.

This week's episode recorded by Rob Beckett at WUTC in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Our editor is Jesus Ambrosio.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Sue says, my professor thinks it's funny to irritate his law partner by using the term irregardless.

I don't think it's funny.

Tell him he's wrong, and I'm right.

Irregardless is a word that gets people very angry.

People use it instead of regardless.

And angry people say, that's not a word.

Guess what?

It is a word.

It's in the dictionary, the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

And even though they say it's non-standard, and even though they say a hot dog is a sandwich, the dictionary is the dictionary.

So

you can be mad about irregardless,

but you can keep it to yourself, like most of all pedantry.

I hate pedantry that masks itself as altruism even worse.

Sounds to me like Sue supposedly coming to the defense of the law partner by getting mad at the professor for using the term irregardless, because she thinks it's not a word.

But you know what, Sue?

It's none of your business.

That's between the partners, Sue.

That's not you.

That's it for this week's Judge John Hodgman episode.

You can submit cases at maximumfund.org slash jjho or email hodgman at maximumfund.org.

As you can tell, no case is too small.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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