Coda Conduct

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm summertime, fun time, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte from 939 the River WRSI in Northampton, Massachusetts.

This week, Coda Conduct.

Jean files suite,

I mean suit, against her sister Liz.

Jean notes that when Liz plays music on the piano, she doesn't play a song all the way through to the double bar, and that leaves Jean feeling flat.

Liz doesn't understand what's from Atta and thinks this is a minor issue.

Will playing songs through to the end be Liz's new forte?

Or has the tenor of their dissonance left Gene in treble?

Can the sisters be of one accord?

Only one man can diminish, I mean decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

How dare you, Monty Belmonte?

How dare you?

I can't help myself.

I'm going to get to the cultural reference, but hang on.

First of all, it's great to hear your voice again.

Summertime, fun time, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte from WRSI The River in Northampton, Massachusetts, famed for his puns and wordplay.

What was the one Liz doesn't understand?

What's...

What's Fermata?

What is your cultural reference?

What is that?

It's a musical notation.

It means like you hold that note for a long time.

Yeah, I've got guest producer Joel Mann here at WERU in Orland, Maine, nodding along to that.

Is that correct, Joel?

Flamada.

And you're a musician, right?

Flamada.

Okay.

And a man of not only not many words, but apparently just one word today.

Fermada.

I'll get to the bottom of that and many more items of importance, but first we have to have this obscure cultural reference.

Here it is.

It's short.

I gave everything to it I was able to give.

What I have here accomplished, I will never achieve again.

End quote.

Summertime, fun time, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte.

Please swear the litigants in.

Gene and Liz, please rise and raise your G-Clef hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or piano man, Billy Joel, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact when he tickles the Ivories, the Ivories don't think it's very funny?

Yes, I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Gene and Liz, you may be seated.

That tickling the ivories joke got a rare smile from Joel Mann here in Orland, Maine, where I am recording, as this is the summertime for me, WERU.org, or W-E-R-U-89.9 FM.

And, of course, here with guest bailiff of the summertime fun time variety, Monte Belmonte of WRSI The River.

And of course, Gene and Liz, who have a fight for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, Gene and Liz.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced when I entered the courtroom.

It's not a piece of culture.

It's a direct quote.

Can you you tell me who said those words?

It's a person.

Gene, what's your guess?

I'm going to go with Billy Joel.

Billy Joel.

William Jenkins Joel.

That's his full name, Monty.

I learned that today.

William Jenkins Joel.

All right, I'm going to enter his full name into the guest book.

And now I turn to Liz.

What is your guess?

Carly Simon.

Carly Simon, a great musical artist who I was just listening to the greatest hits of Carly Simon last night as I was making dinner lists on long playing record, on vinyl.

One of my very favorites.

I will enter that into the guest book as well.

Joel Mann, you like Carly Simon?

Yeah, of course.

Who's better?

Carly Simon or James Taylor?

Say it, Joel.

James Taylor.

No, wrong.

Nope.

That's the wrong.

Totally wrong.

I love James Taylor.

We can't have New England without James Taylor.

Carly Simon, I think, is the more enduring artist.

Monty, do you agree?

100%.

Yeah.

What if James Taylor is listening right now and starting to cry?

Sweet Baby James.

I love James Taylor.

I love Carly Simon.

I love Sweet Baby James, and I love when they do Mockingbird together.

But I was just thinking last night, Carly Simon not only has the pipes, but has a more diverse career as a songwriter and performer.

I'm getting in trouble now.

James Taylor, I love you.

Livingston Taylor, I love you.

But for all of that, all guesses are wrong.

You know who I was quoting?

Who?

Let me give you a hint.

Now can you guess?

Liz?

James Comwell.

Babe.

Babe?

Actually, that does sound like a line from Babe.

You're right, though.

The music was featured in Babe and Babe Pig in the City, which is, of course, two of the favorite films of this podcast.

But I was quoting the composer Camille Saints speaking of his own symphony number three in C minor Opus 78, aka organ symphony, so-called because some of the parts were played on livers and kidneys.

No, it had a big organ in it.

And that theme was borrowed by Babe.

Pig in the City and by Babe for the song If I Had Words.

And the song If I Had Words, the pop version of that song actually was made popular before Babe by Scott Fitzgerald and Yvonne Keeley in 1977 with a reggae beat.

I was listening to it as I drove all the way here.

Liz,

why is this the obscure cultural reference?

Because I played this song in a little clip I submitted.

Well, you did send some evidence of you playing this exact song.

This song is a point of contention in this case, and we're going to hear all about it right now.

Gene, you bring this case seeking justice.

What is the nature of this dispute?

So I've known Liz her whole life.

I'm her younger sister.

And as long as I've known her, she has not played songs all the way through without stopping.

On the piano specifically.

Correct.

On the piano.

Probably elsewhere too, but I'm not sure.

And when you say she stops, how do you mean she stops?

She plays a little bit and she goes, I'm not feeling it.

And she walks out of the room.

No, she will stop if she messes up or if she misses a note or loses her place or becomes distracted.

She will stop playing and she will go back either to the beginning of the song or go back a couple of measures and start playing again.

And it's just an endless loop of playing and stopping and playing and stopping.

So it's not just like,

nope,

nope, but

no.

It's not that.

It's ba-da-da.

Nope.

Ba-da-da.

Nope.

Ba-da-da-da.

Nope.

Is that which one is it?

A or B?

With B being the later one?

It's actually a combination of both.

So you might get either one of those.

It's A or B, ab or ba.

It's sort of A sharp.

Oh, Monty Belmonte, how dare you?

Yes, or B flat.

Okay, Liz, how do you respond to this?

Haltingly?

Yes.

I do not understand.

First of all, everyone makes mistakes, so you kind of have to pause, generally speaking, when you make a mistake.

Liz, when you say everyone, does that include me, Judge John Hodgman?

Are you saying that I make mistakes?

Possibly not you, but most other people make mistakes.

Sure, of course they do.

Of course they make mistakes.

Do you deny that you stop and start again on playing the piano?

I definitely stop and start.

I will also

stop and move on to another piece.

But I think her original issue was that I never keep going and I absolutely keep going.

I definitely don't always go back a couple measures.

I will play the song all the way through if that's what I'm feeling at the moment.

So, what moves you to stop a song, an error, or you're not feeling it anymore?

I mean, I would say probably more so

not feeling it.

However,

I definitely make errors.

I am a very mediocre pianist.

It's more of a have fun, just play for entertainment, get people interested in singing.

That's more my vibe.

Well, yeah, and I appreciate that, but you can also appreciate that starting a song and then stopping several times and then giving up on it to go play The Entertainer by Scott Joplin or whatever, and then stopping that one is not exactly fun for everyone if you're having a little sing-along.

Wouldn't you agree?

I do agree with that.

I think if it was something that was pre-organized, maybe to say, okay, we're going to play this song and this song and we're singing.

But it's more off the cuff, just kind of playing.

And I would love to play Scott Joplin, but Jean would probably be more apt to play Scott Joplin because she's a better pianist than me.

Oh, the gauntlet has been thrown down.

Jean, you don't have a right to complain because you're a better pianist.

All right.

You are grown human beings, correct?

Yes.

Yes.

You have children of your own.

Correct.

You're not child musical prodigies who are forced to play for your parents' amusement.

You are grown-ups.

So tell me a little bit about your family history with music and with the piano and why this issue is even happening in your lives.

I mean, how often do you guys get together for a little piano session?

When we were growing up, we had a family piano, and sometimes we even had two pianos in the home.

And there was always someone playing the piano.

It was hard to even get time to play.

And so Liz has played for a long time.

I've played for a long time.

Liz is a much better pianist than she's making herself out to be.

But, you know, we had all of the songbooks.

So like we had the James Taylor, we had the Billy Joel, we had the Bruce Springsteen and the Beatles and all of that.

And we would play and sing frequently.

Oh, and show tunes too.

So it's been part of our family life.

Oh, what an adorable Wes Anderson movie you grew up in.

Where did you grow up jockeying for piano rights?

In Columbus.

Columbus, Ohio, home of James Thurber, namesake of the Thurber Prize for American Humor, Vacation Land by John Hodgman, runner-up, not the winner, 2018.

Oh, well.

But still, Columbus is a fine town, the capital of Ohio.

Yes.

And how often do you guys get together?

And how often do you guys break out the old piano and sing a song?

I would say anytime we are in a place with a piano, we always end up at the piano.

Do you both have pianos in your home?

Yes.

And do you both still live in Ohio?

Yes.

We're both in Columbus.

How many other siblings are there in the piano family?

There are six other siblings.

Six plus you?

Yes.

Monty, am I doing my math right?

Is that eight?

I believe eight is enough.

yeah i'm not sure if you heard that but you made joel man laugh again monty it's my my great joy wowee and do they all rock piano or are some of them doing some hammered dulcimer no dulcimer um my brother plays guitar and i think the rest of us are just piano i played a little trombone in high school but uh

that's it wait who's speaking right now this is gene gene i'm sorry i lost track there for a second you played a little trombone in high school yes all right i've heard everything I need to in order to make my verdict.

Gene is the winner.

Judge John Odwin rules, that is all.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Womp, womp, womp, womp.

That's a sad trombone for Liz.

Liz, you better tell me you blew some flugel horn or something to counteract that incredible musical judo that Gene just pulled.

I did play...

trombone in middle school.

I'm assuming we all shared the same trombone,

but I did not play it for long.

I played violin for a little bit and mostly piano.

I love the fact that you guys had to compete for piano time in your home as though it were a television or a Sega.

And I love the fact that, like, I go to Jean and she's like, I played some trombone in high school.

I'm like, Liz, you better get some trombone in your life.

She's like, I do.

I played the same trombone.

And now I'm picturing, like, your mom, like, when you were growing up, did you two get thrown in the basement and your mom threw a trombone down the stairs and goes, the first one who becomes proficient in trombone eats dinner tonight?

That's a fair depiction of your childhood, right?

That's pretty fair.

Okay, Jean, this bothers you because why?

Because I do like to sing along and I also like to kind of know where the music is going to go.

So if I'm expecting a song to sound a certain way, it's just jarring to my ears to have it be stopping and all of that.

And I don't care if Liz makes mistakes.

She's right.

We all do make mistakes, but you have to carry on when you make a mistake for your audience.

And so that's one thing.

And the other thing is that when we are singing, I always end up having to play because I do play songs all the way through.

And it's usually Liz's music and I have to sight read it.

So that makes me feel really, really nervous because I'm trying to sight read and keep up with other people.

And I feel like if it's her music, she should be the one playing it.

If we're at my house and it's my music, I can play it.

What do you mean it's her music?

It's her compositions?

No, it's just her sheet music.

Oh, but they're existing songs.

Yes.

Name some of the songs you love to sing together.

You mentioned William Jenkins Joel.

Yes.

James Taylor.

Carly Simon.

Yes.

Should I feel bad about liking Carly Simon more than James Taylor, you guys?

Well, we love James Taylor.

I mean, we love Carly, but we just went and saw James Taylor not that long ago, didn't we?

With Bonnie Wright.

Yeah.

She came with us.

Do you think he listens to this podcast?

Oh, that would be great.

Well, I feel bad that I would make that comparison.

Comparisons are the enemy of joy.

No, wait a minute.

This is a judge show.

Of course, I made a comparison.

I stand by my judgment.

I apologize for a moment of weakness there.

I guess maybe I am fallible after all.

Let's take a quick recess.

We'll be back in a minuet.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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Court is back in session.

Let's get back to the courtroom to hear more of the case.

Gene, do you feel that Liz is a perfectionist?

In some ways.

Go on.

Liz is an artist for sure.

She's a very, very talented artist.

And I think in her own drawing art, she

is able to go in a very flowy way and just make things happen.

And she doesn't overthink things.

But I do think when she plays piano, she's just hard on herself.

So I guess that is perfectionism.

What do you think is the source of her being hard on herself?

I don't know.

You can't express yourself through song anymore, you guys.

We're getting real here.

If you had to use words, would you say that Liz feels paralyzed by her mistakes that she's not able to get it right maybe she's the older sister correct she is yes yeah

usually the older sister well who's the eldest in the family not me I'm the fifth

I don't know the typical psychological profile of a fifth child I can usually do an old eldest child, youngest child, middle child, and only child.

But maybe the fifth child is like, oh, yeah, classic song stopper and starter.

Liz, why do you feel you can't just push on through, especially during a sing-along with your siblings who

probably love you a tremendous amount, even though they judge you very harshly?

I definitely think I can.

I think that Jean makes up this stuff in her head and determines that I'm stopping when she actually stops too.

I don't know.

I think maybe she's focused on me and I don't know.

I don't think it's a big deal.

Do you think she focuses on you too much?

I think definitely more of the gatherings are at my house.

So

I am playing the piano more.

I'm initiating piano playing.

I'm initiating different types of songs.

I might be pulling out five different piano books and a bunch of different sheet music because I like it when we get to sing and play.

So it might just be that we have a limited amount of time and I want to cover a bunch of songs.

May I ask if your hesitancy at the keyboard may have something to do with your choosing and playing songs that you are less familiar with in an effort to mix it up?

Sure, maybe.

Jean might be giving me a little more credit.

I am pretty mediocre.

I am not very good at sight reading.

I'm really bad with timing.

And it's more of just like the interest in the music

for me.

So that's probably why I don't play very well and stop when I make mistakes and take too long to move forward with the song.

Huh.

Gene, how does it make you feel when

Liz says that she's less of a pianist than you think she is, that she's really mediocre?

Because I mean, I hear it classic fifth child mediocrity complex

textbook, but I'd like to hear in your words how it makes you feel when Liz runs herself down.

It makes me very sad.

I am the eighth child.

I am the youngest.

It makes me really sad because I totally disagree that she's a mediocre pianist.

She practices and she plays a lot.

And

I think she enjoys it a lot as well, which is really kind of the most important thing.

So it just, it makes me sad that she thinks that and that she thinks that I'm judging her for that reason.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying you're mediocre.

I don't view it negatively.

You play piano, you have fun, and I think it's okay.

She's a good pianist.

Hone in for a second on the impulse to stop.

You get a note wrong?

Yes.

I might not even be able to read the,

what are those things called?

Those codas and the repeats.

Like, I'm just in my own world when it comes to piano playing.

So I may just get stuck and I'm trying to read the words, I'm trying to read the music, and I just can't necessarily keep going.

When you're struggling with this stuff, when you're struggling with reading the notation and figuring out the coda

and the, what's it called again, Monty and Joel, Fermata, stigmata?

Fermata.

Fermata.

Burrata?

Spell it for me.

Spell this term.

F-E-R-M-A-T-A.

Fermata.

Yes.

What does it mean again?

It's like a sustained note for an indefinite amount of time.

And Joel, what's the notation for it?

A A little oopla.

Why are you even...

What are you doing to me?

You're teaming up to gaslight me with your made-up words.

It's confusing.

I acknowledge that, Liz.

So here's what I'm asking.

It's been a long time since I've read sheet music.

And when you're struggling through and you're playing the song and you're making a mistake and you're going back,

is that torture for you or is that fun for you?

I'd say it's, I mean, closer to torture going back and trying to figure it out.

And I'm just like, let's move move on to something I know better.

Like

Junkie's Lament by James Taylor.

All right.

I get it.

You guys love James Taylor.

So when you're doing this, when you're playing a song and you're getting it wrong and you're going back and you're starting, and other people are trying to sing along or are watching you, is it fun?

Do you have fun even though you're not playing the song correctly?

No, I think it's fun.

And when there's more than one person singing, believe me, I think Jean's, again,

I think she's just looking at this incorrectly.

I think I keep playing through.

I think when there's more than one person singing, I keep going, especially at Christmas.

I play a lot of different Christmas songs.

I will have people gathered around.

Yeah, the more people sing, the more noise there is to cover your errors.

Correct.

Gene, Liz contends that if the family is together and everyone's singing, all 35 of you or whatever, are singing and covering up her errors, that she pushes through, that she doesn't stop and start.

This is a counter contention.

Is this true or false?

False.

Go on.

I very rarely experience her playing a song and continuing on.

And I believe I submitted an affidavit from my brother that also supports that.

All right.

Yes.

Let's look at some of the evidence you sent in.

But before I do, let me clarify.

Though Liz says when people sing along, she pushes on.

You say that is false.

So that means, first of all, your sister is a liar.

And second of all, at Christmas time or whenever you're all together and you're singing along, and it's like, God rest ye,

Jerry Mentleman.

Sorry.

And you're singing God.

We'll just, we'll go with it.

God rest ye, Jerry Mentleman.

And she realizes, oh, I accidentally played Mentalman instead of gentlemen and stops over.

Everyone has to take a deep breath and start singing again.

It's like, God rest ye, Jerry Mentle.

Oh, nope.

Hang on, everybody, start again.

God rest ye, merry gentlemen.

Like, you all have to stop and start singing again, right?

Yes.

Let's take a look at this evidence.

This is submitted by Gene.

We have some photos here, which, of course, will be available on the Judge John Hodgman page at maximumfund.org or on our Instagram at judgejohnhodgmanAllOne word.

And of course, first of all, we are leading with adorable pets.

Here is an adorable cat, Simon, that belongs to Liz, quote, just because he is very cute.

He is a very cute marmalade cat.

Proves nothing about this case.

And this gene would be your dog, Skye, laying in front of your piano where you practice, quote, playing songs without stopping, end quote.

Correct.

Now, this is a very cute dog, and he's lying on that floor next to some toys.

What kind of dog is this?

This is an Akita?

She's not.

She's a Shiba Inu.

Same family.

But I was pretty close, though, right?

Yep.

Yeah.

See, Joel and Monty, I know words.

No kinds of dogs.

Akita, Mina, Mina, oobla, oobla.

All the good dogs.

You're your very own Jerry Mentleman.

Come on down to Jerry Mentleman's.

We got Akitas.

We got ooblas.

Jerry Mentelman's adopt an older Akita Center, Columbus, Ohio.

Don't rest ye till you get on down to Jerry Mentleman's.

I had to backtrack and make it into an adoption center for older pets so that it wasn't just a puppy mill.

But Gene, you drop in some shade against your sis here when you say you practice playing songs without stopping.

Would you say that playing a song without stopping is the goal of a song, Gene?

I mean, when Camille Sanson wrote a Babe, Pig in the City theme, he did not write, oh, I hope that people will stop this song in the middle a few times before they get to the end.

The point is to do the whole thing through, right?

Yes.

Would you say that the method of perfecting a song, of being able to play it all the way through, is a matter of what they say in the music biz, practice, practice, practice?

Yes, and practicing with intent.

Would you say that Liz needs to practice more?

I don't think she does.

I think she practices a lot.

I think she just needs to have the intention of not stopping if she messes up.

Here's a picture of you and Liz

and your son Jude, Gene.

What an adorable family.

Quote, enjoying a concert at the zoo where the musicians played all of the songs without stopping.

Again, a little shade thrown.

Were the musicians animals?

Not that time, no.

Or do you always go to the zoo to hear music?

Weird choice.

Weird choice.

Go to a concert hall.

You know what I mean?

Go to an amphitheater.

The Columbus Zoo, though, it's very famous.

Jack Hannah, right?

Yes.

What kind of music are they playing at the zoo?

I think it was like a Caribbean band, but I can't remember.

So you're saying that Liz does practice, but she just doesn't get better.

Interesting.

Exactly.

I also have an affidavit from one of your many siblings.

Liz, you're going to have to guess which one it is.

I cannot recall a time in recent memory when Liz has played more than two lines of a song without stopping multiple times.

She has made it impossible to sing along with If I Had Words from the movie Babe, which is a shame because that is a beautiful song.

Which of your siblings is that, Liz?

Jim?

Jim, that's right.

What birth order is Jim?

He is sixth.

Classic sixth child.

Team up with eighth child to throw fifth child under the bus.

Jim goes on to say, however, I should also mention, although not necessarily relevant to this case, that most everything Liz plays does sound like a polka.

I'm not sure the court can do anything about that.

Liz, is that true?

Does everything you play sound like a polka?

It's not the first time I've heard that.

I guess I do.

I am not very good at timing, and I have a natural polka beat in my head.

I'm Polish.

You just, well, I mean, maybe you should have stayed to that umpa trombone, you know?

Maybe that was your Metier.

Liz, you submitted some evidence as well.

Your submission says, this is me playing a song all the way through.

Proof it can be done, not well, though.

Case dismissed.

Question mark.

And and now we're going to listen to it.

Sounds like a polka.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my oobla now, and I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Gene and Liz, we heard Liz playing the piano.

Did you grow up Liz playing like a mean 16-handed piano with

seven other siblings and yourself trying to fight for that piano in the home?

Shh, yes.

Can you really all play together, like very many of you at the same time, and to do songs songs all together as a family?

We used to play duets.

Not octets?

No.

Now, Gene, I grew up as somebody playing the piano, and I was terrible, and my dad always used to complain about me starting and stopping, which gave me such ajada and fear to continue to learn that it created some sort of paternal piano trauma.

And even though you're the youngest child, do you think you may be doing untold psychological damage to your sister Liz?

I hope not, but I probably have, yes.

And Liz, when you're down and troubled and you need a helping hand and nothing, whoa, nothing is going right, close your eyes and think of Judge John Hodgman and soon he will be there to brighten up even your darkest nights.

People can be so cold, they'll hurt you and desert you and take your soul if you let them, but don't let them.

Judge Hodgman will be back with this decision in just a minute.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years i know where this has ended up but no

no you would be wrong we're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing yeah you don't even really know how crypto works The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcast.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

we still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else, too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Monty, were you.

I couldn't quite hear you.

Were you quoting song lyrics when I was in my chambers?

Yes, I was.

Yeah.

I have a feeling that song was about me.

I mean, call me vain, but I'm pretty sure that song was about me.

Don't you?

Don't you think so?

Don't you?

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't.

Don't you?

Here's another quote.

Not a song.

I'm going to read this one out.

It's another obscure cultural reference, another chance for either Liz or Gene to take it away.

We've never done this before in Judge John Hodgman, but listening to the testimony today inspired me.

You're a merciful God.

He destroyed his own beloved rather than let a mediocrity share in the smallest part of his glory.

But don't worry, I will speak for you, Father.

I speak for all mediocrities in the world.

I am their champion.

I am their patron saint.

Liz, who am I quoting?

Carly Simon.

No,

no.

Oh, you guys are taking your revenge upon poor Dodgman here.

Gene, have you a guess?

Clarence Darrow?

Clarence Darrow?

I was quoting F.

Murray Abraham as Salieri in the movie Amadeus.

Oh, good one.

Because Salieri knew that he was a mediocrity

and loved the music of Mozart.

And all Salieri wanted to do was play music and write music, but he was only okay at it.

And of of course, Mozart was beyond a prodigy, an otherworldly perfect music machine.

And even though Mozart was a perfect music machine, he didn't hate Salieri.

He kind of thought Salieri was fine.

And this is in the play and movie by Peter Schaefer, of course.

This is not historical necessarily, but the, or we don't know for sure, but in the play, in the movie, Salieri, it's this beautiful character piece where Salieri is consumed by his frustration with his own mediocrity.

And Mozart wasn't bothered by him.

He thought he was a friend.

And yet the comparison that Salier felt constantly made him sad and frustrated.

Comparisons bring no joy, right?

Comparison is the enemy of joy.

You compare yourself to another.

And I don't bring this up necessarily because Liz, you have a Salieri complex and Gene, you have a Mozart complex.

There's an element of that, right?

There's a whiff of that.

There's a little oobla of that.

That's not exactly why I brought up this comparison.

I brought up the comparison because, Liz, you shared that recording, and I'm going to say

it's mediocre.

I'm sorry.

Liz,

it's mediocre in the best way.

And I have to say that it reminded me of the scene from Amadeus, where Salieri has composed a little entrance music to welcome Mozart to the Austrian court.

And the Emperor of Austria, Austria, who's an amateur musician, asked to play it for Mozart and he plays it very haltingly.

And it doesn't help that the tune itself is very ponderous and frankly unmusical.

And so it's this comedic moment where Mozart doesn't even know how quickly to walk in because the tune is so hesitant.

And it's this moment where Salieri just recognizes like, yeah, there's a limit to where I can go.

And you said something about timing, that you have difficulty with timing.

And I heard that too in your playing, a little lack of a natural musical motion.

And so when I say that you're a mediocrity, I say that with respect.

I love that Salieri gave that speech at the end, that he would be the patron saint of mediocrities everywhere.

Because it is a moment of true self-understanding when you realize there are limits to my talent and here are where my failings are, right?

even if

other people don't recognize that or want you to not feel that way, if you know that it's true, you know that it's true.

So I hope you don't take it as malice, that I acknowledge what you told me, that you have issues with timing.

You are a little hesitant.

You don't play with a sense of sureness.

I hope that doesn't hurt your feelings.

I'm trying to see you and to acknowledge also that you're extremely brave to put the music out there.

You know, anyone is, right?

Anyone who's not a a prodigal,

super duper musician who doesn't even know their own limits is going to feel nervous about performing, especially for an unknown audience of listeners all around the world, right?

And also that you are comfortable with, it would seem, the fact that you are not as great a musician as your sister, but you're okay with it and you still want to play music.

and still want to have a good time with your friends and your family playing music, that you still love it.

And I think that's a very healthy, good place to be.

And I'm sorry that Gene cannot acknowledge that.

You are a mediocrity.

You're the patron saint of mediocrities for the Judge John Hodgman podcast, as far as I'm concerned.

At the same time, there's a competing premise in this court, which is that if it's not fun for everyone, it's no fun at all.

If you get pleasure by sitting down and working your way slowly and hesitantly through a piece of music, or you get pleasure learning a new piece of music, and you stop and you start and you stop and you start and you figure it out, and you're doing that on your own, that's great

but I have to agree that stopping and starting a song in a sing-along

is a real um

what it's a musical term that you might not have heard a buzzkill Monty you deal with a lot of professional musicians in your role as a as a DJ and music aficionado and showtune aficionado there in Northampton is it typical for during a recording session or a concert for an artist to stop and start the song over and over again?

A concert, no.

A recording session, potentially.

A recording session, potentially.

All right.

Thank you for undermining me a little.

That's fine.

No.

Neither of those cases, it's true.

No, you're right.

I mean, but it's a different situation, right?

In a recording session, you're trying to get it right.

I stop and start as we record this.

That's how it goes.

I make mistakes.

I'm fallible.

I admit it.

James Taylor is great.

I've seen fire and I've seen rain.

Oh, Joel, you back at me.

Joel, when you're laying down bass with Night Flight and the field hippies on the porch of the Pentagohead In Tuesday evenings in Castine, Maine.

If I hit a wrong note.

Yeah, what do you do?

I make sure the next time I'm at that exact spot, I hit the wrong note again.

Ha ha ha!

Consistency.

Exactly.

That's what they call jazz.

Yeah, but

consistent wrong notes.

That's what they call jazz.

You can't stop the trio.

You can't stop the other night flights.

No, no.

Got to keep going.

It's really called night and day trio.

Everyone.

Pentagoad in Tuesdays.

Got to keep going.

Why?

Why do you got to keep going?

Well, because most of the time other people won't even know you've made a mistake.

Yeah, I mean, because that's context.

It's okay to make mistakes.

It's important.

It's how you learn.

But you make mistakes in private, or if you make mistakes in public, you pretend they don't happen.

Singing along and playing along and playing music together is something that doesn't happen a lot in United Statesian family life these days.

It is precious.

It is wonderful.

I'm so happy that your family grew up doing this.

I'm I'm so happy it was not a basement trombone fight, but apparently an atmosphere of mutual respect and prodding to do better and a desire to have fun with each other.

And so I want to encourage you to continue to do it.

I want everyone to listen and to be brave and bring out a ukulele or learn a trombone or another musical instrument.

Singing along is something that our culture needs a lot more of than less of.

And I am glad, Liz, that you are trying to keep this tradition tradition alive.

But I have to agree with Gene and Jim

and many, I presume your other siblings, that it's not fun for everybody when you stop the song and have to start again.

It is jarring.

It's a jarring thing.

The beauty of a song is that it keeps going.

You know, when you think about it, if I had words to make a day for you,

I sing you morning, I'd sing a morning.

See, now I messed it up, Nancy.

it's now it's terrible now everyone feels mad right

everyone who's listening is around the world i didn't even mean to mess it up i did these lyrics are wrong

if i had words to make a day for you i'd sing a morning golden and new i made a mistake but i'm going on

i would make this day last for all time

made a mistake i'm going on give you a night deep in and i don't remember the rest stopping and starting it's just everyone's mad at me now I'm mad at me.

I'm so mad at me, Joel.

I practiced so hard.

Joel's so mad.

Monty, are you mad at me?

No, you sounded beautiful.

I would make this day last fall.

That's the note.

That's the incredible thing Saint Son does in that.

What note is that?

You have perfect pitch, don't you, Joel?

Monty?

One of you guys.

Oobla?

F-sharp?

Yeah.

Oh, that's the beauty of a song, right?

When you get it right,

it's the anticipation to that note that is making the whole part of that first song so exciting.

And if you've never heard it before, and it goes, uh, goes for all time, instead of just repeating for all time, or whatever it was, that's amazing, right?

That's what a song is.

You gotta do it all the way through, and you gotta not make mistakes.

And when you do make mistakes, as I did, a couple of notes in there were pretty sour, but I kept going because I knew if I could get the end, I could stick that landing, everyone would be happy, and everyone would be together.

So, Liz, what I'm saying is, instead of getting more and more songs out and then abandoning them to get songs you're more familiar with,

don't go for quantity, go for quality.

Get five songs down, down cold, this one included.

I know you could play it all the way through.

I heard you get through it.

I do believe that you can get less hesitant and more musical in your presentation.

It's not all polka.

But at the very least, play them all the way through.

Five songs that you have cold.

I'm going to be singing this song all the way home in this drive.

I'm going to get it right every time, Joel.

But that's part of it.

Playing in public is nerve-wracking, and then you got to practice, practice, practice.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Another case in multi-measure rest as we near the coda.

Gene, you seem to have won this case.

Does this seem like now perhaps perhaps the responsibility is greater on you to be the one who does all the playing until Liz gets at least five full songs in her quiver for a public performance at your gigantic family gatherings around her piano?

I am willing to take on that responsibility while Liz gets her five songs together.

You got to get your five songs together too, Gene, because you were saying you have trouble following Liz's sheet music.

Learn some songs in her repertoire.

Liz, do you have any idea what your five songs might be?

Probably five James Taylor, just since everybody knows James Taylor and, you know, we'll get a lot of good singing and harmonizing.

So I'm pretty committed to that.

As someone who hosts a morning radio show that was previously hosted by Rachel Maddow, I know what it's like to be the patron saint of mediocrity.

So I hope you don't hurt too much with Judge John Hodgman's decision.

And as a consolation prize, you will be receiving a Salieri Fermata sandwich from Jerry Mendelman's Deli.

Thank you both for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank Jeremy Frank for naming this week's episode Coda Conduct.

If you'd like to name a future episode, follow Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

We regularly put out a call for submissions there.

Follow us on Twitter.

I'm at Monty Belmonte.

Judge Hodgman is at Hodgman.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets.

Hashtag JJHo.

And check out the maximum fun subreddit to discuss the episode.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff.

This week's episode was recorded by Jimmy DeRosa at Orin Judeo Recording in Columbus, Ohio, and Joel Mann at WERU Orland, Maine.

How sweet it is to be loved by Joel.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

And now for some swift justice, where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment.

Angela says, I think bringing a vegetable plate to a potluck is a cop-out, and no one really likes them.

My husband disagrees with me.

Prove him wrong.

One point of clarity here.

I'm not sure whether Angela is talking about a vegetarian dish or a plate of vegetables.

If she is bringing a vegetarian lasagna or a vegetarian chili, I will not eat it.

But it's going to make someone there very, very happy.

Because lots of times at potlucks, vegetarians get overlooked.

if you're talking about a plate of vegetables then we're talking about crudité and that is not a main dish that is an appetizer so if you've been asked to bring a main dish and you're bringing crudité

uh you better up your game you better bring me something that is not just cut up celery and broccoli from the wawa or the store 24 or the cumberland farms you got to go to the farmer's market and get the greatest broccolis and little radishes and fresh beans and really good stuff and really make it look gorgeous and maybe add some cheese to the side, some really nice feta cheese and make some dip.

If you make your own onion dip, if you make onion dip from scratch, no one will be sad at that potluck.

You got to really dress up a plate of vegetables at a potluck in order for it to stand out.

I don't want some green room crudité that comes in the pre-sectioned containers with some stale cherry tomatoes.

Jennifer Marmor knows what I'm talking about.

That's the crudité we get in green rooms when we do Judge John Hodgman tours.

Now, I'll eat that stuff.

I'll enjoy that a lot.

In a green room context, that's delicious.

But at a potluck, when you bring some food to someone's house, you want it to look generous.

You want it to look good, and you want it to be good.

All right, that's how I feel about that.

Summertime, fun time, guest mail of Monty Belmonte, take us out.

That's about it for this week's episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfun.org/slash jjhoe or email hodgman at maximumfun.org.

No case too small.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

If I had words to make a day for Liz and Jean,

I'd sing a morning golden and new.

I would make this day last for all time.

Give you a night deep in moonshine.

Finally, that one wasn't so bad.

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