Blob Justice

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Blob Justice.

David files suit against his wife, Kayleigh.

David would like to keep a jellyfish tank in their home.

Kaylee is opposed.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is made from the finest, delicious, healthy, organically grown microphones and computers.

It is full of zest, natural goodness, and contains the amazing mother of podcasts, which occurs naturally as connected strand-like chains of internet justice molecules and is highly regarded throughout history.

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Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

David and Kaylee, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's the one that started the fire in Tracy Morgan's shark tank?

Yeah.

Yes.

Very well, Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

It wasn't easy.

It wasn't easy starting a fire underwater.

No.

With a bunch of sharks around.

People blamed Tracy Morgan because he's eccentric, but it was actually you because you are eccentric.

Yep, and I am an amazing underwater welder.

Kaylee and David, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced?

Did not quote directly because it changed a couple of words.

Whenever I said podcast, I was actually saying something else.

Get it?

When I entered the courtroom.

David, let's start with you.

I really thought it was going to be jellyfish-related.

Food.

Oh, did you think it was going to be jellyfish-related?

Well, maybe it is, and you just don't see the connection, sir.

It seemed cooking-related.

It's obvious, David, that you're a jellyman.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to guess it was something by Julia Child.

Oh, that's a good guess.

Something by Julia Child, perhaps a recipe for jellyfish

that is in the French tradition, but simple enough that you could make at home.

All right, well, we'll put that guess in the guest book.

What about you, Kaylee?

Do you have a guess?

I was reading something about a group of school children who are making jellyfish sea salt caramels.

I wonder if it was about these jellyfish sea salt caramels.

Uh

pardon me while I vomit.

Okay, we'll edit out the sound of my retching.

I'm back now.

Interesting guess.

I'll add that to the guest book.

Of course, I'm here in Maine in my summertime self-exile to the state of Maine at WERU in Orlando, Maine, with guest producer Joel Mann.

Joel, do you have a guess?

Guy Fietti, diners, drive-ins, and dives.

Very nice pronunciation of Guy Fieti.

Thank you very much, Joel.

Bailiff Jesse Thorin, just to round out the quadruptic.

Do you have a guess?

Yeah, it's definitely those jellyfish caramels that the school children.

Jellyfish caramels.

Well, you're right.

it's all about those jellyfish caramels kaylee you win what no i didn't know what you're talking about

i don't know whether you can even cook jellyfish never mind put them into a caramel maybe that's something that david the jellyfish expert can answer but i'm not sure that he will be able to because david yes you are a jellyfish expert right i'd like to think so what happens when you get stung by a jellyfish me personally or

oh i don't know sorry are you not a human?

Does something different happen to you when you get stung by a jellyfish?

Do you turn into a superhero?

Jellymon?

It hurts, Your Honor.

It hurts.

It hurts, doesn't it?

Doesn't it?

Your favorite non-fish hurts humans.

And what happens if you get stung by a jellyfish?

What do you put on that in order to stop hurting?

And don't say urine.

That is a folk remedy.

Caramels.

Not caramel.

I was going to say urine.

I was going to say urine.

The jellyfish I work with don't sting, Your Honor.

We'll see about that.

Look, your book, Jellyfish Smart, I'm Street Jellyfish Smart.

Another reference to that Casper Hauser sketch, Mundo de Peros, Jesse.

Yeah, I loved it.

Two episodes in a row.

Check it out.

Mundo de Perros.

Casper Hauser Comedy Podcast.

Yeah.

I'm telling you what I know

from

years of living part-time in Maine.

But more specifically, five minutes this morning when I read a newspaper article in the Portland Press Herald about the resurgence of jellyfish on the beaches of Maine.

Since 2014, there's been a huge influx of dead jellyfish, dead jellies, and some live jellies showing up on the beaches of Maine.

We don't know whether it's because of the overfishing is taking out their competition, so they're growing in population or whether there's something to do with climate change.

Who knows?

It's happening.

And you know what?

In the beaches of southern Maine, short sands beach, long sands beach, what the lifeguards are carrying around with them in spray bottles to alleviate people's jellyfish stings.

I'll tell you one thing.

It's not their urine.

Apple cider vinegar, my friend.

Apple cider vinegar.

They spray it on people's legs when they get stung.

Hey, Joel Mann, you ever get stung by a jellyfish yes?

I did.

And did you pee on your own leg?

No, I didn't.

What did you do?

Did you just suffer?

I just suffered.

Yep, that is the way of the Maine person.

So that was quoting to you from the back label of my personal favorite brand of apple cider vinegar.

I get no money for this.

They don't sponsor this podcast.

I'm talking about Bragg's B-R-A-G-G-Apostrophe S apple cider vinegar.

The only apple cider vinegar with the mother, which is like a weird, gross floaty at the bottom of the bottle of apple cider vinegar.

Guess where I bought it, Joel?

The Brooklyn store.

No.

Brooklyn General Store?

Wrong.

No.

Walmart.

No.

Come on, Joel.

Where am I going to get some fancy apple cider vinegar in this town on this peninsula?

Blue Hill Co-op.

Blue Hill Co-op.

Just a little local color there.

Anyway, there we go.

If you get stung by a jellyfish, I'm talking about a white cross jellyfish.

I'm talking about a moon jellyfish.

I'm talking about a comb jellyfish.

I'm talking about a lion's mane jellyfish.

Those are the jellyfish of Maine.

Spray a little apple cider vinegar on there.

You just learned something, jellyfish expert.

I did.

So let's talk about this.

David, you want a tank of jellies in your home.

It says here that you guys met in high school and have been married for 12 years.

That's delightful.

Oh, thank you.

And you are a professor at UC Davis and you've been studying jellyfish for 10 years.

So you live in California.

Is it an apartment or a freestanding home?

It's a freestanding home.

We just bought it a little less than a year ago.

Congratulations.

Which is a pretty amazing thing to do in California.

Couldn't talk too much of the style, but I guess the important thing is the room that I want the jellyfish in.

I think Kaylee presented some evidence on that.

As far as you're concerned, the style is mid-century jellyfish lacking.

Yes.

So, David, tell me why you want a jellyfish tank.

That needs an answer?

Yes.

Yes, it really does.

I mean, I know that you study jellyfish.

Yes.

You want to have some in your home.

Tell me why.

The jellyfish that I study, they tend to be very small.

I don't get to really enjoy the big, full-grown jellyfish that you see at aquariums.

And

I think it would be a great conversation piece.

It would be a way for me to share science

with people who come to visit us.

And it would just look really cool.

Let me make this clear.

The jellyfish that you study are small.

So you want to have some real monsters in your life.

You want to get some big ones in your house.

So I study the moon jellyfish, which you said you have out by you.

Yeah, yeah.

So they can get to a pretty good size as adults, you know, over a foot, I guess, in diameter.

But when I work with them, I tend to work with very small ones, maybe just less than an inch.

So

they're easier to work with in the lab, but just less fun to look at.

Closer to the size of, say, a Werther's original.

You could probably fit a few dozen of them on a Werther's original.

They're very small.

I mean, you'd have to if you were a schoolchild and you wanted to make a Werthers original.

And Kaylee, apart from the very obvious reason, why are you opposed to having a jellyfish tank?

I mean, they're gross, right?

I don't want to put that on you.

Maybe you don't find them gross.

What's your feeling?

Well, that's the whole thing.

It's like, I'm not opposed to a jellyfish tank forever.

I just think right now is a particularly awful time to put a jellyfish tank in our home.

And yeah, part of that is like a nice, pristine, beautiful jellyfish tank that makes us feel like we're in the Monterey Bay Aquarium.

Sounds potentially cool,

but that's going to take a lot of work and upkeep to make it not stinky and gross.

I'm trying to figure out why you say this is a bad time because you just bought this house.

Maybe financially you're not able to undertake a huge installation of a new tank.

Yeah, so that's a huge part of it.

The other part of it is we have a five-month-year-old.

Oh, congratulations.

Human or jellyfish?

Human.

Yeah.

Full human.

No jellyfish.

You mean your husband hasn't been secretly experimenting on your five-month-old in his lab?

I will make a human-jelly hybrid, even if I have to sacrifice my own child.

I will create a jellymon.

You know that they call him mad at the university.

Mad, I say.

Exactly, exactly.

So you got a lot going on, is what you're saying.

Yeah.

So it's all the things.

It's the money.

It's the time of upkeep.

It's also the room.

David didn't really go into the details of it, but our house is like super early 1970s, California ranch house.

Like the room looks like that.

It looks like something like a little out of the Brady bunch with the rocks.

And I just feel like with the wrong type of tank, it could just look like bad psychedelic,

I don't know, suburban house.

Like, I feel like we would just have to put in black lights.

I hate to say it, Kelly, but the way you describe this house, it sounds like the perfect house to have a jellyfish tank in.

Come on, yeah, I'm pretty pumped about it, just hearing you describe it.

You know, apart from a conversation pit, that's exactly what this house is missing.

Right, yeah, some pink Floyd posters and some black lights.

I mean, what is a jellyfish tank if not a living lava lamp?

Exactly, exactly.

You know, I'm right, Kayleigh.

That's part of this, too.

It's like we've been moving around from apartments for like forever since we got married, lots of little teeny apartments.

And this is our house.

And I mean, maybe in 10 years, five years, I'll be chiller and like ready to lean into psychedelic ranch house.

But right now, I just am like thinking about how to have a nice house.

Let's take a quick recess.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Court is back in session.

Let's get back to the courtroom for more justice.

David, could you describe the jellyfish tank that you would like to install in your home?

Well, as a matter of fact, Jesse Thorne, I believe that David sent in some photographic evidence of exactly that.

Yeah, if you turn to figure two.

All right, all right, David.

Give us all a minute here.

I'll lead us through this.

So if you turn to figure two,

you'll see some buzz marketing for a website called jellyfishart.com,

from which David has stolen an image

of a jelly tank.

These images, all of this evidence, of course, will be available on the Judge John Hodgman show page at maximumfun.org and at our Instagram page, which I urge you to follow along for fun evidence and other delightful surprises at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

All right, Jesse Thorne, do you have figure two in front of you, sir?

I do.

It appears to be a promotional image promoting the sale of

junky-looking jellyfish tanks.

Well, I'm seeing this jellyfish tank, and it's sort of tall and either angled or cylindrical.

It's hard to tell from this angle.

But it's like this tall, sort of dark black monolith with three glowing jellyfish within.

And that seems fairly attractive enough as fish and marine aquatic tanks go.

As long as you buy your furniture from the Sharper Image catalog.

Yeah, it looks exactly like, yeah, you're right.

It kind of looks like an air purifier from the Sharper Image.

But then you have all this other junky marine stuff surrounding it.

Packages of Chemipure Blue and Jelly Salt and a wild remote control with different colored buttons on it to very carefully monitor the temperature of the tank.

There's a clear bag full of something brown that I can only presume is miso.

Exactly.

Jellies love miso soup.

I think what this is reinforcing to me, at least, David, is that keeping an aquatic tank requires a lot of merch.

There's a lot of stuff and a lot of intensive care that goes into taking care of things under the sea, right?

So I'm not defending this particular tank.

Oh, well, thank you for showing us your fourth choice.

Jellyfish require very special tanks.

They're very bad swimmers.

And so that's why you have to keep water flow always going, which is why when you see them in aquariums, they tend to be in these big circles, like these circular tanks.

Yeah.

I don't see them in aquariums, because if I go to an aquarium, you know what I'm skipping?

The jellyfish.

Sorry.

Oh, look at some real fish.

You should check them out.

You need someone with personality.

I think jellyfish are cool.

I see them in the aquarium.

Thank you.

I'm not a heartless monster like Judge John Hodgman.

I'm not a heartless monster.

I'm just a snob.

I'm a snob.

I admit it.

I admit I have standards.

I happen to think jellyfish are one of the classiest undersea creatures.

I want to see a thing with dead dolls' eyes.

I don't want to see some Lovecrafty and ancient old one.

But okay, everyone likes what they like.

You like jellyfish, Jesse Thorne.

You like jellyfish.

Kaylee and I are over here going, no, I'm jellyfish.

But it's cool.

I get it.

You love them.

So they need special care.

As Kaylee knows, I've spent a lot of years trying to build these tanks.

Yeah.

And they tend to not go too well.

So I provided this as evidence that, you know, we don't have to go through that process again.

That there's a number of commercial tanks available.

And actually, I think that the remote with the buttons, I'm pretty sure, is actually just changes the color of the lights.

Just to make the jellyfish turn different colors for your own amusement.

Yeah, who's the monster, sir?

Who's the monster?

Well, I love how a sentence that I never thought I would hear on this podcast, though I should have expected it at this point.

I've tried to make several jellyfish tanks in my life.

That's a great sentence.

Love it.

That is a sentence that tells a novel's worth of stories.

Speaking of a novel's worth of stories, what happened when you tried to build jellyfish tanks in the past?

Did you end up in a Tracy Morgan shark tank situation?

No, so

they'd be part of larger systems with lots of water going through, you know, like water tables.

And I'd come back the next day after working on it, you know, all day, and either all the jellyfish would be gone

or sitting at the bottom of the tank.

Wait a minute, they'd be gone.

You mean they flew the coop?

They're like, we're out of here.

I think I speak for all of us.

We don't have brains.

We don't have eyes.

But we have enough of a nervous system to know that this sucks.

Bye.

Possibly.

Yeah.

And Dave started working on the jellies jellies right after we got married.

So like these are my memories too.

Like I remember like going to the Home Depot and trying to buy like blinds to try to like MacGyver a jellyfish tank.

It's not that I don't love the jellies.

You know, I've been on this like jelly journey with Dave.

You're just not ready for the jellies.

Yeah, I just don't want that in my house.

Ask it again, Jesse.

Do it again.

You're just not ready for these jellies?

Yes.

I get it.

But I would have to say, Kaylee, if you, I mean, and any listener, if you ever want to hear the sound of trauma in a person's voice, rewind this podcast to the moment where David says, I've tried to build several jellyfish tanks.

And just listen to Kayleigh go,

yeah.

Kaylee, was he trying to build them in your home or in his lab?

No, in the lab.

But like, it was, you know, know, first starting out grad students.

I think the money came out of our like sad little newly married grad student budget to like go to Home Depot.

So you're suing for damages.

It's not just to stop this from happening.

Past damages.

And if you and all within the sound of my voice will turn to figure three,

you will see a photograph, I presume, of the den.

in which David wants to place this jellyfish tank.

And indeed, I mean, you've got a big stone fireplace and a slanted post-in-beam ceiling.

It looks a little bit like Mr.

Brady's den in the Brady Bunch.

Totally.

And it seems to me you already have a jellyfish tank.

I see one in the corner here.

So why are we even talking about this?

So Kaylee submitted a picture on her evidence of the room.

I asked for a copy of it so I could add in the hypothetical jellyfish tank to show how good it would look.

What?

You mean this is an altered photograph?

Yes, Your Honor, but.

It looks really real.

It looks really real.

I'm not joking.

It looks good.

You did a good job.

Thank you.

It kind of looks to me like it belongs there, honestly.

Oh, no.

It kind of looks to me like it belongs there.

Oh, no.

Let me turn to figure four.

Oh,

same room, but now

the skeleton of a giant ground sloth?

How did that happen?

This is not a joke, everybody.

David photoshopped in

the articulated skeleton of an extinct giant ground sloth.

And by extinct, they're all extinct.

It's not this one's extinct.

Why am I looking at this image of a.

I mean, not that I am ever sad to look at an image of an articulated skeleton of a giant ground sloth, but why am I looking at this particular image?

Well, first of all, I mean, let me commend you on recognizing a giant ground sloth skeleton.

Yeah, we've all been to the La Brea tar pits, buddy.

I used to work there.

Really?

Bragg.

Yeah.

I'm trying to demonstrate my reasonableness because, as Kaylee knows, the other thing I've wanted since we've been dating in high school was an articulated giant ground sloth skeleton.

That's true.

I just loved every moment and pause and word in that sentence.

I saw where it was going and I just enjoyed the ride.

Starting with, I'm trying to prove my reasonableness.

Can I just say, Judge Hodgman, that this giant ground sloth skeleton, honestly, I think it looks pretty good in that room.

I think the palette in particular is complementary to the rest of the stuff going on in the room in a way that the jellyfish tank, which is a much more reasonable item of home decor, much less Nick Cageyan,

doesn't.

I think the giant ground sloth looks good and those jellyfish look kind of whack.

If I could just, if you look at the mantle in the living room, you'll see that there is already a cast of a sabertoothed cat skull and the claw of a giant ground sloth already on the mantle.

Yeah, sounds good.

Good point, Thaley.

You mean it fits the theme.

That's right.

That ground sloth skeleton really brings the room together.

Yeah, I mean, can you imagine if the La Brea tar pits just had one claw in it?

Let me ask you this question, David.

When you were photoshopping in this

giant ground sloth skeleton, I mean, is this to scale?

Is that how large it would be in there?

That particular species?

There are certainly ground sloth skeletons you could get about that size.

And again, it's part of my reasonable.

You're the right guy.

Yeah.

Well, look, I don't want to blow your source, but where are you going to get this giant ground sloth skeleton?

Because this podcast is going in a very different direction, I'm afraid, for you, Kaylee.

Where would you get this this giant ground sloth skeleton?

Only if you tell me where you're getting it.

Are you going to Skulls Unlimited in Oklahoma City?

Do they have a full cast?

They're the best articulators that I know of animal bones.

They're great.

Yeah, you know who I'm talking about, right?

Skulls Unlimited in Oklahoma City.

Oh, yeah.

They did my ferret skeleton for the back of my book.

That is all.

But you seem to know of at least one source where you could get a giant ground sloth skeleton.

An actual one?

I would imagine that would be very expensive.

You're talking about a replica, right?

Yeah.

Yes, Your Honor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you can't get a real ground slot skeleton on a jellyfish researcher's salary.

No.

No.

I think even the replicas are like $30,000.

Oh, my gosh.

So again, the jellyfish tank is much more reasonable.

Remind me to start my verdict with the sentence, this is what happens when you marry a person you meet in high school.

Okay, can you all remind me of that?

Kaylee,

you have sent in some evidence as well.

This evidence, I dare say, is somewhat more human.

Is a picture of your delightful child.

Who is this person, this five-month-old?

That is our son, Theo, who is five months old and requires a lot of care, a lot of time.

Time that would probably be better spent hanging out with Theo than cleaning jellyfish tanks.

He's very adorable.

And I like the little swaddling situation that's going on in this other photo.

For those of you listening and can't look at the internet right now, we have a photo of Theo sitting quietly on a carpet.

This is a human baby.

It's not just a skeleton.

There's other stuff all around the skeleton that makes it very cute and alive.

And there is a skeleton.

It's not an invertebrate.

It is a vertebrate, just like you and me, unlike certain jellyfish I know.

And here he is sitting up on a carpet, which is looking great.

And here he is lying down, displaying the Moro reflex so beautifully.

Yeah.

Taking a little nap at the foot of the bed.

And that photo, I submitted it to kind of prove the point that we already have a pet, and it's a cat.

Oh, here is your cat.

Oh, look at your cat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a little sweet.

And my phone used to be full of pictures just of the cat, and the cat used to get lots of love and attention.

And now the only pictures the cat is in is if she's like a cute backdrop for the baby in some capacity.

Yep.

That is what your cat has become and believe me, your cat knows it.

Yeah.

Is this beautiful baby ambulatory or otherwise locomotive?

No,

but he will be soon and I'm actually hoping to turn the den into his like playroom area, hence the other kind of trepidation about the tank.

That's a good idea.

When you're choosing a playroom area, you want the one with the most sharp rocks in it.

I know.

I know.

That's a good point.

However, I think it's worth asking, have either of you considered the implications of a toddler in a room with a giant jellyfish tank, or for that matter, a replica giant sloth skeleton?

Yes, and that's why I'm kind of on this train of maybe jellyfish tank someday.

Right now is a terrible day.

What day is the jellyfish day?

I mean, when you say jellyfish day someday, do you mean someday or do you mean no day, but I'll say someday to push this off until never?

No, no.

I would be okay with it one day.

Like, there'd be like a number of things that would have to happen for it to be good.

Like, I'd want a really pretty tank that doesn't, you know, make me sad to look at.

And Theo would have to be past the age where I worried he'd like bang on the glass or do anything.

I don't really know what babies do.

This is our first baby.

I don't know what to be afraid of, but.

I imagine there's a number of things he could do.

So no, yeah.

I think there could be a day in which there's jellies, but now is just a bad day.

How many rooms do you have in your home?

We have three bedrooms, a kind of larger front room that has like a living room and kitchen kind of combo thing, and then this small den off to the side.

So you have a lot of room.

Seems like you could fit a jellyfish tank in there somewhere.

But where?

What else would this den be used for if not for jelly?

I mean, baby play?

Yeah.

That's the thought.

I've got grand designs.

Theo's got his own room.

Theo's got his own room.

Yeah.

It's not very big, though.

There's not a lot of room for like ambulin.

The den is more ambulin space for Theo.

Yeah.

David, what kind of jellyfish are you going to keep in this tank?

I'm going to give you some choices.

You want some moons?

Yeah.

What about a lion's mane?

What about a comb?

What about a man oh war?

What about an Atlantic sea nettle?

What about a cannonball jellyfish?

What about a cabbage hat jellyfish?

Or a blue rubber jellyfish or a mauve stinger or a sea wasp or an immortal jellyfish?

What about a four-handed box jellyfish, David?

What about a Dutch treat or a space queen or a chocolate or a granddaddy purple?

Those last four are not jellyfish.

Those last four are strains of cannabis.

But the rest are real jellyfish names.

Most of those are pretty poisonous.

Yeah, that's what's exciting.

I got them off on a website named A List of Popular Jellyfish.

And when I clicked on a list of popular jellyfish, I expected to see zero jellyfish.

Because they're not popular.

So why should we like jellyfish so much David what do you love about them oh my goodness what isn't there to love about jellyfish I mean okay now imagine you're talking to a different person who is not you

because you point out a lot of these guys are poisonous they're very alien looking they're very strange yeah you know they're not pettable I mean, it's one thing to have an aquatic tank in your house to be keeping fish or shrimps or other little creatures of of the sea.

Already you're sending a message to the world that's like, I'm on the margins.

I love weird things that do not look like me.

And I need to have something bubbling in the background all the time.

No offense to all of our aquatic tank keeping listeners.

I've seen some of your tanks.

They're wonderful, but it's a time-intensive and a resource-intensive hobby to take care of things that cannot return affection in any way.

So tell me about when you started getting into jellyfish and why you like them so much and why you want to have them in your home.

Well, to be fair, the cat doesn't give us any love either.

Jeez.

We keep her around.

Yeah, that's because the cat has figured out your game.

You've just replaced it with a child.

What's the name of the cat?

Miyazaki.

I'm with Miyazaki.

Miyazaki's life has just taken a big downturn.

It's true.

It's a premium nerd cat name.

I support that very strongly.

It's true.

But stop dancing around this question, David.

You're the jellyfish lover.

Tell me why you should have them in your home.

I love jellyfish because when I look at them, I see some of the oldest animals alive today.

They're so simple.

They don't have brains.

They don't have a backbone, but they do have a nervous system.

They can move around.

They've got very simple organs, very simple sensory systems.

And so I like to study and to understand where nervous systems came from, how eyes and ears evolved.

And also, just the more you explore them, the more bizarre they are.

If you turn to figure 1B that I submitted, they've got these complex life cycles.

And it turns out

a lot of people know about this immortal jellyfish.

It's gotten some media attention, but probably many kinds of jellyfish, including the moon jellyfish that I want to raise,

can reverse their life cycle.

They can go back from being adults to babies.

They have some life stages that can regenerate no matter how many pieces you cut them into.

Other stages live for a few years and pass away.

And we're always finding out new things about them.

So it would be a great research boon to me to have these animals around so I could observe them

all the time.

Are you going to be cutting them up at home?

Are you going to be cutting them up to see if they regenerate?

In your den?

Where my children play?

It's a reference to the Godfather Part two.

Trying to think how how to answer.

Are you going to be observing or are you going to be doing research at home?

Observing at home.

You know, they do pretty interesting things themselves.

I would argue no.

You have the opportunity every day

to study, think about, dissect, and investigate jellyfish.

Now you want to bring them home.

Kaylee, does David have difficulty keeping a boundary between home and work?

Oh, yeah, totally.

But I mean, to be fair, we both do.

We both work from home a lot.

Tell me about your profession.

Sure.

So I'm an art historian.

I work on different exhibitions, and I just finished my own PhD last year.

May I ask you a question?

Yeah.

In your home, on the walls.

Yeah.

Do you have any art?

Yes.

Case closed.

I find in David's favor.

This is the sound of the dabble, Judge John.

just kidding.

But the art doesn't require feeding.

That's true.

What kind of care is involved in a jellyfish tank?

How much attention would need to be paid to it?

It's much easier than a usual fish tank.

They need some brine shrimp.

Kaylee is already rolling her eyes.

They need some brine shrimp.

You have to keep it.

She knows that the scientific name is Sea Monkeys.

You keep the water flowing.

You keep it clean.

There's not too much more to it.

Do you have to take a little net, one of those little nets, and do a thing?

I mean, you know what I'm talking about?

A little tiny net to pull things out?

I mean, you probably have to take them out once in a while to give the tank a good cleaning.

I mean, we'd probably want to keep the tank cleaner at home than I keep them in the laboratory.

Yeah, I bet you have some stanky tanks up in your lab.

Yeah.

Right, Kayleigh?

You know what I'm talking about.

I can picture it.

They are very stinky.

That's part part of this.

And he has jellyfish tanks in the lab.

It's not like he's bereft of jellyfish.

You said stinky.

There's something that can't be shown on a Photoshop image of a Brady Bunch den, and that's smell and sound.

Yes.

Right?

Yes.

Is this going to smell bad, David?

Yes.

For real.

Be honest.

I think it's a good idea.

It's your best, but I'm asking, David.

Objection.

Is it going to smell bad, David?

They smell fine.

They smell like water and living creatures decaying.

Like, it doesn't.

It's not the best smell.

Only if they are decaying.

Yeah, which they will be.

I thought they were immortal, and now all of a sudden you're accusing David of you're pre-accusing David of killing these jellyfish.

Yeah.

He's not putting immortal jellies in there.

It's that other kind that he likes.

I would like to make the argument that in a technical sense they can't die.

Oh, gosh.

I will allow this argument.

Great.

How, in a technical sense, can they not die?

Even if perhaps the bulk of the animal is smelly and decaying, that many of the cells of the jellyfish will probably go back to becoming

those simple little polyps that, again, if you turn to figure 1B.

I studied figure 2B.

1B.

I know what a polyp is.

I know what a Medusa stage is.

I got it all under control now.

Larva, polyp, Medusa.

It's the life cycle of the moon jellyfish.

Yeah.

Figure 1B.

Yeah.

And look at the figure 1A.

They're pretty.

They're pretty.

They look like the moon.

Yeah, they are pretty.

Oh, see, Kaylee, so you admit that jellyfish are pretty.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They look like little floating flowers.

They're pretty.

Yeah, they're kind of like living art.

With perhaps the longest history of all, since they are prehistoric in nature.

How much time a week are you going to have to spend on this tank?

I do think one of the fair arguments Kaylee has is that

I'm pretty good when I'm reminded to

help out around the house and get chores done.

Perhaps left on my own, I'm not always the best.

So, as to how often I have to clean the tank and take care of the tank, I don't think it would take too much work.

Yeah.

You'd think I'd have a better answer.

i think he's saying it would it would take as often as i bug him to do it is what it comes down to kaylee uh how is uh david as a co-parent he's excellent truly excellent like and that's kind of part of this too is i feel like we're doing a it's hard right but i feel like we're doing a good job and the idea of adding like one more like kind of straw on top of this is kind of terrifying how it works i think in our relationship right now which, you know, for better or worse, probably we should think about changing it, but is we kind of both have a really good, even share of the actual hands-on doing of the things, but I kind of take the role of like the project manager for the house.

So at any given time, I know like, you know, what if we need to buy more bar soap, or like, what is the next thing, you know, on the horizon we need to get for Theo, or what kind of extra cleaning around the house needs to be done beyond the obvious things.

And if I have to like add to my to-do list and mental to-do list, like buy brine shrimp, I'm going to be pretty bummed out.

Do you think David's self-diagnosis is someone who needs to be reminded to do certain chores that he will otherwise forget to do?

Is that accurate?

Yes.

So if I were to order in your favor, Kaylee,

you would say a jellyfish tank down the road, and also it has to be aesthetically appealing to you.

Yes.

And currently the one that is in play is not aesthetically appealing to you.

Yes.

And obviously, David, if I were to rule in your favor, it's jellyfish all the way down, right?

Get a tank tomorrow.

Get these moon jellyfish floating around being uncanny and weird as soon as possible, correct?

Yes.

I think you got it earlier, which is if not now,

when.

I'd also accept a giant ground floss skeleton.

All of us would, sir.

All of us would.

From a generous benefactor of some kind?

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my room full of black light posters of giant ground sloth skeletons, and I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Kayleigh, you've presented a compelling case.

How are you feeling about your chances?

I think less good than I thought I would.

I think Dave's kind of just winning over with the jellyfish facts.

Did you partly fall in love with him because of his extensive knowledge of jellyfish facts?

I mean, not the jellyfish.

Not the jellyfish facts in particular, but the kind of like love and wonder in the things around us.

Yeah, sure.

David, how are you feeling about your chances?

I'm torn.

I'm kind of amazed that the judge doesn't find jellyfish aesthetically pleasing.

That's kind of what I was banking on.

But I think Kaylee did the best for me by calling it a psychedelic suburban home.

That might help me out.

Okay, we'll see what Judge Sean Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his binding verdict.

Okay, does anyone remember the sentence that I was going to use to start my verdict, Kaylee or David?

This is what happens when you marry your high school sweetheart or something to that effect.

Absolutely.

First of all, thank you for remembering because I wasn't sure I had it right.

And yes, that's exactly what it is.

This is what happens

when you marry your high school sweetheart as someone who has married his own high school sweetheart.

And Jesse Thorne, you too, right?

Yeah, I'm married to my high school sweetheart.

What about you, Jewel man?

I don't want to talk about it.

Okay.

Wow.

Oh, Jewel.

Here's one benefit to marrying your high school sweetheart.

When you fall in love with someone in high school,

there is no threat that you are falling in love

with anything but that person person and their legitimate, genuine passions and aspirations, right?

You know, we're all good people.

We're not looking for life partners because they got a lot of money.

You know, we're looking for people of substance for the most part in this life.

We're not looking for people who've got some fancy job.

But, you know, once you reach a certain age and you're a professional, probably you're going to be looking for someone who's in your same field.

Probably you're only going to be meeting people who are in your same field.

You're going to have certain standards of your life that you want to uphold.

And And maybe you might be tempted to marry someone because of their position or their or you know what they bring to the table socially or whatever else, like things that are compromised a little bit.

That's what being a grown-up is, is compromising, making hard compromises and sometimes very pragmatic compromises that are anti-romantic.

or not necessarily romantic, let's put it that way.

But when you're in high school and you fall in love with someone, it's because they love jellyfish so much, you know, or they love art history so much.

You know, it's like there are a lot of challenges to falling in love when you are a teenager and maintaining that relationship.

And it's not always for the best by any means.

Do you know what I mean?

But when it works out, then you know you have faith.

You know, you fell in love with somebody because of who they are in a kind of real-world vacuum.

And you are falling in love with someone who is, I hope, attuned to their true passions.

And the truth is, what ends up happening is if those relationships continue, you ideally know what you're getting into.

You're going to end up married to a jellyfish expert.

Which, you know, David, you're a lucky person because,

well, you know, if you had to put that on a Tinder profile, I bet you would be attracting a lot of other jellyfish-interested people, you know.

You don't want to be hanging around with just jellyfish people all the time.

David, that's what you'd be stuck with, honestly.

Let's face it.

If you were starting dating today, it would be a jellyfish or some other invertebrate expert.

Probably.

And that person would be like, yeah, let's get that tank in here right now.

Let's never have children, never have a cat, giant ground sloth,

and giant jellyfish tank.

And by the way, all these lights are black lights now.

And in this alternate timeline, you'd be staring at your jellyfish, and you wouldn't have ever known the other world, right?

In this alternate timeline, you'd be staring at your jellyfish tank.

You'd be staring at your giant ground sloth.

And you wouldn't understand why you weren't entirely happy.

You would know, as everyone in every science fiction alternate timeline understands, that something's not right.

You have to get back to the original timeline in which you marry your high school sweetheart, Kaylee, a person who is willing to push back a little bit.

That friction, that production friction between married couples, you know, or unmarried couples.

It doesn't, you know, marriage doesn't matter.

It's just a piece of paper.

And by the way, everybody, just go live with each other.

I don't care anymore.

I don't care if you're married or not.

But, you know, be in in love ideally with, you know, the whole human being and be respectful of their fascinations because that's what you fell in love with, but also be respectful of your own limits.

And I think a jellyfish tank is going to look good in this den.

I think this den was made for a jellyfish tank.

And I think it was a big assumption on your part, David, that I was just going to go along with your love of jellyfish.

You know, I don't love them.

I think they're gross.

Joel Mann, what do you think about jellyfish?

Free the jellyfish.

What do you mean?

Let them go free.

Let them go free and die in the wild.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

How do you think people in Maine feel about jellyfish?

Thumbs up or thumbs down?

I don't think they think about it much.

Well, when you see one on the beach, right, it's gross.

It's gross.

Yeah, they're gross.

They're gross.

And David, you waltzed into my courtroom thinking that I...

A nerdy type, would be like, ooh, but I also love the jellyfish.

Why are the women not allowing us to have what we want?

That's not me, man.

I hate them.

I hate jellyfish.

Gross.

Even seeing them in a tank, I'm like,

I'll walk away from that.

I'm going to go see a seal at the aquarium.

I'm going to watch a jellyfish undulate.

Gross.

But even though I don't love jellyfish and really would love a giant ground sloth, I think that you should get a jellyfish tank in that den.

One of these days.

Hmm.

Here comes the turn.

Because the truth is, you cannot make an argument that you don't have enough jellyfish in your life.

You're with them all the time.

You're with them in your lab.

A.

B, your lab stinks.

The tanks aren't clean enough.

I don't know whether that's your fault or your assistant's fault or whatever, but it's not a lot of evidence that you're going to do a better job maintaining this tank in your home.

C, you also say that you essentially rely on Kaylee to be your daily reminder of the things that need to be done.

And I love the Absent-Minded Professor Act, but right now you have a five-month-old.

And really,

when you are home, that needs to be the focus of your study.

If you like jelly, you really see the thighs of a baby.

Holy moly.

Nothing's better than that.

You basically have a slightly more advanced jellyfish that you've got to take care of at home right now.

And you have gone through the purchase of a home.

I think it is eminently reasonable for Kaylee to say, slow your roll, David.

Let's have a jellyfish tank down the road.

Let's focus on what we've got right now.

Now, I wondered and worried that Kaylee was saying someday, meaning, haha, never.

But she seems legit.

I take her at her word that she means someday.

Right now, you need to be present for

your son and for your wife during a very challenging time of child rearing.

And frankly, much like you guys are neglecting Miyazaki and they know it, I'm a little concerned that those moon jellyfish are going to be neglected because you're going to be having a lot of parenting to do in the next year and a half.

So in this sense, I am definitely siding with Kaylee.

But Kaylee, you need to put a date on this.

It is not fair to your beloved David.

to kick this down to some unknown future.

You need to be comfortable with setting a date.

Okay.

And, frankly, style of tank.

Yeah.

So do you have that date?

I'm ordering you to think of one right now.

Which of Theo's birthdays

will be the day Theo receives a giant jellyfish tank?

That's pretty cute.

I don't know, eight?

No, too long.

I'm going to say

third birthday.

Oh, whoa.

Nope, fourth, fourth.

Fourth is good.

And here's why.

Three-year-old, still an untameable monster.

That three-year-old is still going to pull that jellyfish tank off the wall and on top of himself at some point.

Four years old, they're chiller.

They've got a measure of curiosity in the world.

Theo will have visited David's lab at the university.

If that is, the university has not yet kicked him out for his unorthodox experiments.

He'll know what his dad is up to, and he'll be so excited.

to have a weird psychedelic tank in the den.

The tank will look good.

It will not look like a sharper image tank.

You're going to have to do better than what you've picked out so far.

But in the three and a half years before this happens, David, you can not only hope for, but maybe help develop new and better and more aesthetically appealing jellyfish tank designs and technology.

All right.

And you will have a lot of fun, you and your son and your very, very patient wife,

staring at those jellies.

And, you know, and then as soon as Theo graduates from high school, you're getting a ground sloth.

I promise you.

Start saving now.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Kaylee, how do you feel?

That's fair.

I want Dave to be the one who's doing all the, you know, tank picking out and everything, but other than that, that seems fair.

I'm actually kind of excited to see Theo play with the jellyfishes and learn about them when he's older.

Have you seen these tanks?

I think you should participate in the picking out part.

Yeah.

Not the cleaning, but the picking out part.

Yeah, that's probably a good bet.

David, how are you feeling?

Feeling good.

I like the idea of linking it to Theo's birthday.

I think that increases the chance that it's going to happen.

And...

Yeah, I think there were some fair points in there that maybe now is not the best time.

This is our first time leaving him alone, actually, right now.

And all all that talk about fat thighs, you know, just made me miss him.

Aw, thank you guys for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books.

In a moment, we'll have some swift justice.

We want to thank Andrew Lurchin for naming this week's episode Blob Justice.

If you'd like to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, you can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and check out the Max Fun subreddit to discuss this week's episode.

We're also on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman, where you can see all of the strange artists' renditions of this 1970s style family den.

You can also see evidence there for past cases.

It is a fun place to visit.

This week's episode was recorded by Genevieve Bowman at UC Davis Academic Technology Services.

UC Davis, of course, home of one of the world's greatest cows with a giant hole in the side of it that you can reach your arm into.

Our producer is the capable Jennifer Marmor.

Judge Hodgman, are you ready for Swift Justice?

Yes, Jesse, I am ready.

Jamie says, my husband thinks tennis balls are

green.

Well, that's it.

Okay.

Guess what I think, Jesse?

What?

I think they're green, too.

They look green to me.

What do they look like to you, Jesse?

They also look green to me.

They look green to both of us.

Joel Mann, what do they look like to you?

Green, green, round.

Green, and that's true.

That's a good point.

Yeah,

we should have specified shape.

Green and spherical, they look like to us, but guess what, Jamie?

Your husband and Joel and Jesse and I are technically wrong.

Their color is very specifically optic yellow is the name of the color of a tennis ball.

Thank you, Wikipedia.

They have been optic yellow since 1972 because people could not see white tennis balls, which was the traditional color before that, on television well enough.

Now, optic yellow does look awfully green, and there are some arguments made as to why some people see them as more yellow and green and more green than yellow, and I don't really follow those arguments.

All I know is that it is called yellow.

It looks green, much like...

the color of a school bus.

What color is that, Joel Mann?

Yellow.

That is, okay,

I was going to say orange, but okay.

You're right.

Optical yellow.

No, no, they are national school bus glossy yellow.

That is the official color of the school bus.

It was invented in 1939 by Frank Sear, a teacher at Teachers College, who was charged by the federal government to come up with the design and color of a school bus.

He spent seven days, there was a seven-day conference on school bus design and color, and they came up with federal standard number 595A, color 13432, national school bus glossy Yellow, or National School Bus Chrome.

I know all of that from Wikipedia as well, including the inventor of the color Frank Cear.

But who is the Frank Cear of optic yellow?

I don't know.

Who designed this color?

This is what I want to know.

If you know, write to me at hodgman at maximumfund.org.

But yes, Jamie, while they look green, they are optic yellow.

And that's all I have to say about that.

That's it for this week's episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash jjho or email hodgman at maximumfund.org.

No case is too small.

We loves them all.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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