And Baby Makes Plea

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, and Baby Makes Plea.

Allison brings the case against her husband, Jeremy.

They're trying to make room in their home to accommodate the baby they have on the way, but they can't figure out a way to accomplish this while maintaining Jeremy's workroom.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

In a world where podcasts are shunned, we believe in them, not only in the act of producing a better product, but in the sheer joy of doing or becoming.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Alison, Jeremy, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that in his workroom he produces only best-selling books?

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

New England Independent Book Award-winning books, I dare say.

At least one.

You got a NIBA?

I got a NIBA.

New England Independent Book Awards event was the greatest thing.

It was in Providence, Rhode Island.

Wait a minute.

I said NIBA as though the word England, the first letter is an I.

I think I don't know whether they call them nibas or nibas

or niebies, but I got one for nonfiction.

Vacationland.

True stories from Painful Beaches available now at bit.ly slash painful beaches.

But listen, Allison and Jeremy, also check out Print Bookstore in Portland, Maine.

They're great.

Allison and Jeremy, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture I referenced when I entered the courtroom.

Allison, begin guessing.

I am afraid I have no idea, so I'm going to say Tommy Wizzo's classic film, The Room.

Tommy Wizzo's classic film, The Room.

Solid guess?

I'm putting it in the guess book.

Jeremy, your turn.

What's your guess?

I'm going to guess that it's from a book.

I'm going to guess Good, Clean, Fun.

Good book my wife got from me in 2017.

Oh,

yeah, that's an interesting guess, right?

Because it's a book about woodworking and you're a woodworker.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Jesse Thorne, that's two solid guesses.

Solid like walnut, a big hunk of walnut wood.

It's a kind of wood.

Like a beautiful burl wood.

Like a beautiful burl wood.

And what about you, mystery friend of the court, who has been sitting here silently, listening, listening, always listening?

What is your guess?

Thank you, Judge.

My guess would be: it sounded like

a slight paraphrasing of a George Nakashima quote.

One guess is correct.

It is a quote from the famous Japanese-American

woodworker and furniture builder, George Nakashima.

Of course, he was not talking about podcasts, but what was he talking about, Nick?

He was talking about manual skills, I believe.

The virtue of manual skills.

Was that from his book, The Spirit of the Tree, Nick, originally?

It was in an essay that he wrote.

Right.

Well, I don't have time for all of his essays when I can get all the great literature in the world quoted in your book, Gumption, by Nick Offerman, which is where I found that quote today.

Oh.

I just laid my hand on your book here.

This is before Good Clean Fun.

This is Gumption relighting the torch of freedom with America's gutsiest troublemakers.

George Nakashima is one of those.

He is a woodworker.

You are a woodworker.

Jeremy is a woodworker.

Allison.

You and Jesse and I are not woodworkers, so it's a fair match.

Speak for yourself.

I built a birdhouse in the Columbia Park Boys Club on Guerrero Street in San Francisco.

I know.

I apologize.

I don't mean to besmirch your handyism.

Sounded weird.

Bird counts.

But hey, we buried the lead.

Nick Offerman is here, everybody.

Friend of the court, Nick Offerman.

Star of film, television, the stage, the printed word, Nick Offerman.

How are you doing, Nick?

I'm very well.

Thank you.

It's an honor to be back in the courtroom.

Well, it's a delight to have you here.

And later,

remind me to tell you a story about a George Nakashima desk that I have for you.

But right now,

we're going to settle up some justice between Jeremy and Allison.

Let's get to the dispute.

It says, you guys live two hours east of Austin in Texas, and I know that you're going to have a human child in July.

That's lovely.

What do you both do all day?

Allison, what do you do all day in your normal life?

Well, I work for a foundation here in town that focuses on helping more Texas students complete education after college.

Oh, that's a wonderful foundation.

Do you want to name it?

Sure.

It's called Greater Texas Foundation.

Greater Texas Foundation?

I'm writing it down so I can put it out of business.

All right.

Now, Jeremy, what do you do all day?

I'm a software developer with Texas AM.

I work on an internal research grants management program.

That's wonderful.

And you're a part-time woodworker among other projects that we're going to get to.

And you guys, you are married to each other and expecting this child in July.

Do I have all the facts of the case before me?

Yes.

Jeremy, would you say that the focus of your software software is agriculture or manufacturing?

Mining?

Or AM?

Or ampersands?

A little bit everything.

Sure.

Allison, tell me the nature of the dispute.

So we have three bedrooms in our home.

One is ours.

The second one is currently Jeremy's workroom.

And the third one has been a fun hodgepodge random room of requirement ever since we live uh we moved in last year.

So it's part sewing room for me, part storage.

It's where we hide things when people come over and we want to convince them the rest of our house is clean.

And up to this point, this has also been where we have stashed guests when they come to stay with us because it's pretty easy to just blow up an air mattress and put them in there.

Yeah, before you go any further, Allison, I'm just going to say I'm going to find in your favor, this is the sound of a gabble.

You win because

you said hodgepodge.

That's the secret word.

I'm glad.

I wasn't sure if you would view that as a slur or as a compliment.

No, no, I've been waiting nine years for someone to say it.

I've had it on a post-it since we started this podcast.

Anyone says Podge, Podge, they automatically win.

John, we've been doing this show for a long time with people from all across this great nation, and there's nothing that makes me more green with envy than when someone describes a guest room they have.

Right.

Well,

it's true that you folks are living the dream of a married couple with zero human children.

You have space to spare, but that is about to come to an end, and that's part of the issue here, right?

What's the dispute here?

Where do you want to install this baby when it comes?

Well,

assuming all goes well and the baby arrives with all the necessary parts and everything, we're planning to use that.

Yes, yes.

As always with these things, there is a hodgepodge of caveats and finger crosses.

But presuming that all works out the way it should, you want to put a baby in a room.

Which room?

It'll be that spare room.

Spare room where your sewing is.

That's right.

Well, that's nice.

You don't want to kick Jeremy out of his workroom.

For a Judge John Hodgman case, that would have been move one for a lot of spouses.

Well, too many sharp tools and metal and wood filings all over the place.

Well, I think it's possible to move those things, but

you don't have to put your baby to bed on a bandsaw.

It's like lead paint.

You have to do tool abatement.

Yeah.

You tie your baby to a bandsaw and your baby goes, Do you expect me to talk?

And he's like, No, my baby, I expect you to sleep sleep tight.

All right.

So, why doesn't Jeremy want the baby in the sewing room?

We'll call it the Hodgepodge Lodge from now on.

So, Jeremy is okay with having this baby in the spare sewing room.

Hodgepodge Lodge, excuse me.

No, I think he said hodgepodge lodge.

Nick, what did you hear?

I heard hodgepodge lodge.

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness.

Hearing those words in Nick Offerman's dulcid tones, really,

I'm retired now.

All right, here we go.

Okay, I'm back in it.

I'm back in.

So, what were you saying about the Hodgepodge Lodge or the HPL?

So, we agree on having our baby live in the Hodgepodge Lodge, but I would like to create a space for guests when they stay with us.

I feel like at this point in our adult lives, we should be able to offer people something a little bit more comfortable than an air mattress and give them a little bit of space to spread out.

And in my mind, the only viable option I see is taking some space in the workroom since it's the only remaining room without a human being in it and making a little guest nook for people who come to see us.

But clearly, if guest room goes into workroom, workroom has to go away.

No guests.

Who are the guests that are going to come?

Moms and dads?

Grandmoms and granddads?

Right?

You're not going to make them sleep next to his work table.

Well,

that's what we're trying to figure out.

All right.

Nick, you have a wood shop, do you not?

I do.

It is separate from my domicile,

which

it's more of a hodgepodge garage.

I was very interested that your workshop is separate from your domicile.

Because that is usually where workshops are.

They're not usually in spare bedrooms if you can help it.

I mean, right?

Aren't they normally in a garage or a basement?

Quite often.

It depends what is being made and said workspace.

I'm curious because the hodgepodge lodge also has sewing going on in there, which to me is also a very charismatic pursuit.

And I'm curious what percentage of time is spent between sewing and whatever is being what and I'm also curious what is it being made in the workspace.

Yeah, I think that those are really good questions.

And I know that Allison and Jeremy sent in a whole bunch of very charming photos of the spaces in question.

And maybe we can get a little bit more specificity to this soul of narrative by looking at them now.

Of course, all of the evidence will be available on the show page, the Judge John Hodgman showpage at maximumfund.org, and as well on our Instagram account.

Our tag there is Judge John Hodgman.

First photo.

So the first thing I see here is,

I presume this is your bedroom.

This is a room that has no no metal shavings or sewing machines in it, so this has to be your bedroom, right?

So that's actually the Hodgepodge Lodge with the air mattress in it.

Oh, excuse me.

Excuse me.

You'd think I'd be able to recognize my own lodge.

Okay, so this is Hodgepodge Lodge in guest configuration currently.

So what we have here is a wall-to-wall carpeted room with a large air mattress in the middle of it, and it looks like some lumber stacked up off to the side.

Is that what that is?

That is correct.

Is this for your projects?

It is for a future project.

Okay.

Is that mahogany?

African mahogany.

Yes.

Man.

Make us a new dining table.

Yeah, girl.

First of all, points to Nick Offerman for his wood spotting.

Second of all, Allison, thank you for just telling me what the project was instead of being really mysterious about it the way Jeremy was.

New dining table.

I like it.

Okay, now I see how it's all fitting together.

This is the view of

the Hodgepodge Lodge from the foot of the bed where we see your sewing table and your sewing machine and also a printer that looks like

state-of-the-art 1999 jet inkjet printer.

That is accurate.

So let's go to what Nick Offerman was getting at a few seconds ago, Allison.

What do you do with the sewing machine?

What are your projects?

What are your hobs?

Well, I am very much a novice sewer.

I don't have the same level of a skill Jeremy does.

So I've made three main things so far since I started a couple years ago.

A large variety of tote bags, which make for good Christmas gifts.

I have made some misshapen sock monkeys that I was very proud of.

And I made a large black rat snake costume to wear to my office Halloween party last fall.

Now you're telling me.

See a rat snake?

Yeah.

Yes.

A large rat snake costume.

That's correct.

You're telling me you sent in all these photos and there have to be about 500 of them that you sent in.

And not one of them is you in a rat snake costume.

I didn't know if that would be relevant to the case or not.

Send it in.

It's totally relevant to the case.

I'm holding you in contempt of court currently.

Send it in so I can put it on the Instagram.

So that costume was because my office is located outside of town in the middle of a cow pasture.

One day we spotted like an eight-foot-long snake crawling up the side of the building trying to get to a bird's nest.

And all work ceased for about half an hour while we were watching to see if it would get it or not.

And it did not, luckily.

But anyway, when we decided to have a Halloween costume contest later that year, I thought.

That would be a winning idea.

Yeah, I want to see that costume.

But now we're moving into Jeremy's workroom.

And I don't know if you guys over there at Maximum Fun HQ can see this, but this is a portal into an untethered mind.

This room.

You're not wrong.

Are you just upset that he has an Atari and not a ColecoVision?

My eye was absolutely drawn to the Atari video computer system, the Atari 2600 box that you've got.

on your industrial shelving there above looks like a can of old paint in a u-haul box and then you have a desk area with a couple of monitors uh then you have a guitar in the corner.

And this looks to be the fabled workbench kind of off to the side.

I actually have a question.

Looking at the workbench area, I see a faded cutout of a car from the early to mid-1980s on the wall.

Am I to presume that is a hodgepodge Dodge?

That is not a work of my own.

I inherited that from my uncle, who owned a car that you might see pictures of later.

Along on the wall as well, there is a violin or viola bow and a bulletin board that is conspicuously and eerily blank.

And then work stuff.

Nick Hoffman, you're an expert in this field.

What are you seeing here?

What kind of things do you think he's making on this workbench?

Well,

to the left of the workbench is what appears to be an electric guitar in process.

So my guess is that Jeremy's main focus of study is Luthery.

That is correct.

No, Nick nailed it again.

It's like he's some kind of expert.

I'm a fan of justice.

Well, I'm glad you are because we are now renaming this podcast to Nick Nailed It, which really

could be a good woodworking podcast for you, Nick.

Yeah.

Luthery, for people at home who don't know, is the

construction of lutes,

the medieval stringed instrument preferred by Sting.

And also, in a more expansive definition, all guitar-type instruments.

And indeed, I've gone along here in this vast album that you've sent.

And here is a rather grim-looking closet that's full of guitars.

And then we get to the backyard, and we'll talk about that in a minute.

So tell me about your projects.

Tell me what you do in this workroom.

Tell me about why it's important to you, Jeremy.

I felt I should say my workspace is actually kind of distributed.

We do have a garage.

The garage is messy and not conducive to all sorts of work.

So the garage is really,

I have a bandsaw and drill press and some saws.

And that's where the real messy work happens.

So in the workroom, it's a lot more

fine sanding.

I do a lot of wet sanding to get things.

you know, nice and pretty when I'm finishing them and

a little bit of hand cutting.

Nothing too messy.

It's inside.

So you're saying that you have a garage,

but the garage is where you do the dirty work and you focus these other two rooms on your sanding?

Well, sanding, and I do some electronic work too.

Is it fair to characterize the decor in these two rooms as garage-like?

That's absolutely fair.

I would also like to add, Jeremy has not mentioned one half of the garage is taken up by his 1980 Mustang, which he is working on rebuilding as well.

Right.

And there is a photo of the Mustang.

This is the Mustang that

you inherited.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay.

And it looks like you've got a ways to go.

It doesn't have a hood.

It definitely has an engine.

I don't see headlights.

And then there's also a picture of you using a giant Game Boy.

What's that?

That is a Halloween costume my friend wanted to build and he asked me if I would help with the woodwork on it.

Oh, okay.

It appears to have a functional screen.

Is this a giant functional Game Boy?

A giant functional wearable Game Boy.

Holy cow.

That's a lot of work.

Let's take a quick break and hear about another wonderful show provided to your ears by maximumfun.org.

We'll be back in just a second on Judge John Hodgman.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

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Just go to maximumfund.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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It's true.

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But made-in isn't just for professional chefs.

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And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made-in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

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you know she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot uh she can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Court is back in session.

Let's return to the courtroom to hear more of the case.

It's clear that you're handy.

You're making Game Boys, Boys, you're making dining room tables, and this is all on top of your regular job.

Well, Allison, you can't argue that Jeremy isn't using this room.

No, not at all.

He uses it all the time.

But how are you going to fit a guest bed into

the disordered hellhole that he has made it into?

No offense, Jeremy.

But I wouldn't want to sleep in that room.

I know cars that wouldn't want to sleep in that room.

Well, it would take some creativity and a little bit of art of cleaning up, joy of cleaning up.

I can't remember what it's called.

Tidying.

You're talking about the new Judge John Hodgman Netflix show, the all-the-time science of cleaning it up.

It's going to be the runaway hit of 2019.

I think my concern would be that when it comes to things that you might not necessarily want to have inside of an adult home, an enormous Game Boy costume that works as a Game Boy is probably on the list.

However, there is no doubt that touching that would spark joy.

I mean, it depends to some extent on what game cartridge is in there.

Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle is less fun than Mario Land, but still, both are pretty fun.

And depending on how handy Jeremy is with wiring, it might even spark injury.

We're beating up on Jeremy.

Nick, what do you think about his workroom there?

What do you think is going on?

You like it?

Well, I mean, I get it.

I understand that there's machinery in the garage that I wish were pictured because I love to admire both the drill press and the bandsaw at any given opportunity.

And when you're building instruments, there is a certain degree of fine work that requires bench space and a less dusty atmosphere, as would be found in a bedroom like this.

But in terms of this dispute, and given Jeremy's skill set,

my leaning is toward,

you know, I'm in a happy marriage, thankfully, and so

I tend to

try to find some solution when my wife asks something of me.

Like, can we turn the guest sleeping space into,

can we somehow find accommodation for that in your workroom?

And so I would look to Jeremy's skills and say, well, I'm seeing a lot of available wall space for shelving, both in the workroom and in the Hodgepodge Lodge.

And I think somewhere in the evidence, even it was suggested the idea of a Murphy bed.

And so, to my way of thinking, without seeing the square footage, I feel like there's room for cleverness in that second room.

That workbench could be

possibly rigged to hinge up against the wall so that the room has a convertibility to it.

I mean, I appreciate your appeal to cleverness here.

And we already know that Jeremy is very clever.

It truly would be a thing to pull off if you could walk into a room where a dude sounds guitar bodies and then flip a lever and a Rube Goldberg contraption turns it into an appealing guest room.

Jeremy, why is this not a challenge that you wish to undertake?

It sounds fun.

I haven't started studying Rube Goldberg machines yet.

His primary focus, to be clear, has been Luthery, the creation of British Idris Elba vehicles.

Well thrown.

It was well thrown.

I'm not going to catch it, though.

That was a long way to ramble for a light crumpet.

That's Luther's tagline for the TV show Luther, isn't it?

If you guys think I haven't just spent this whole time trying to think of an excuse to say hodgepodge fuselage, you are completely mistaken.

You also sent in two other items, and I'll just summarize them very quickly.

Several views of a backyard that includes a chain-link fence cage where I presume you store the zombies when you catch them for your experiments.

And as well, a really, really

adorable announcement video that the two of you made along with your cats, Tobias and Pumpkin, and your dog Garfield, saying the baby is on the way.

And all of that's going to be available online.

I'll talk about the announcement video in a second.

What am I looking at with regards to this backyard?

Why are we looking at this?

We included that in the evidence because one of the options we talked about for

finding a new space for some of his work would be to put up some kind of shadow workshop in the backyard.

But that giant zombie storage murder cage is kind of a big impediment for us.

So that came with the house when we bought it.

It probably was once functional, but it is now all overgrown with trees and weeds and has,

I don't know,

I don't know what mysterious things are inside.

I've been kind of afraid to look.

But that would be, we would have to do extensive work on the backyard to get it ready to install some kind of workshop.

And we are down to less than three months before this child gets here.

So, Jeremy, do you feel that you're not, there's no chance to build a workshop before July?

Or at least, I mean, you don't have to get it all done before the birth of the baby.

You can continue to be working on it.

Right?

Well, if the rumors are correct about

baby preparedness, no, No, there's not enough time.

Aaron Ross Powell, now Jeremy, it looks like a reasonably sizable backyard.

Is it within your family's means to go down to the big box

hardware retail store to buy one of those sheds with windows that looks like a little house?

Good question.

It is an option.

It's Texas and it's hot and humid, and those are things that must be accounted for.

If you want

work on fine instruments, and I use that term very loosely, just dealing with humidity and how it interacts with the wood or paint.

Do you have an option in your town of a shared workspace?

Do you have, you know, sort of artists' lofts that you can rent a space in?

Not that I know of.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

You mentioned that you own the house, right?

Yes.

How long do you think you both will live there in that house?

At least a few years.

Right.

But your family's getting bigger.

I mean, you have two cats and a dog,

and

you're going to have this child.

And Jeremy's got a

whole thing going.

I mean, he's got more than one workspace.

Obviously, one classically in the garage, but also

a whole dedicated workspace in the house where he's doing some heavy-duty stuff.

Jeremy, what does the work mean to you?

A lot.

All right.

Good enough.

Thanks.

Oh, sorry, what?

So I started building guitars about 2010.

I built a very crude mandolin-like instrument.

But the second thing I built, my friend asked me if I could build him a guitar.

And I said, sure.

And it was a big learning experience.

But what I found in the process is it's really fun to make stuff that you can give to someone and they can appreciate and they can use and they can make music with it.

And so it's a thing that I really enjoy.

Sure.

It's a beautiful thing.

I always say

it's a great way to say I love you for those who don't like to say things like that.

You just hand them a handmade electric guitar.

And then maybe rip out a sweet I love you solo.

You could also just play them a recording of Nick Offerman saying a hodgepodge lodge.

Another beautiful thing.

But I don't think anyone is asking you to give that stuff up.

Are you, Allison?

Is there anything about it that bothers you?

No, I respect and appreciate Jeremy's work.

And that's why this is hard for me too, because I don't want him to feel like I'm trying to push that out of his life.

I realize the value that it brings him and it brings value to me too.

I think for me, the struggle is just trying to figure out.

So like even now without a child in our lives, it's hard fitting in such a huge passion, like physically and time-wise and money-wise.

And so trying to figure out what is that going to look like when we have the added responsibility of keeping a kid alive.

Allison, do both of you intend to work full-time when the baby arrives?

I'm going to cut down to like 75% time.

I'll be working full-time.

Do you anticipate that maybe some of these projects might naturally fall by the wayside a little bit, Jeremy?

Like, you're working on the Mustang and you're working on the guitars.

Is there anything else that you're working on?

Dining room table?

I think those are the big three.

Well, he's also doing some work with the local business incubator involving a router, which I don't know much about.

CNC router.

And then he picks up projects.

So sometimes friends will come to him and they'll need a repair made or something like that, or just like a fun idea, like the Game Boy.

And so he'll pick that up too.

Sure.

Yeah, he needs a little bit of giant Game Boy time.

Obviously, so.

Can I ask a practical question, Your Honor?

Please.

Also in this workroom is pictured a pretty substantial workstation that I'm guessing has to do with

your software work, a couple monitors and a bunch of computer gadgets that are above my pay grade to recognize.

In the picture,

to reflect accurately, he appears to be using one of the two giant monitors to watch a YouTube video about cars.

What goes down at your workstation, Jeremy?

Play games, work on software occasionally, and

watch, you know, I like to watch videos of just making stuff.

But that's not, you work in an office.

You don't work there.

I do work in an office.

Right.

So when Allison says that she respects your Lutheran and your Mustanging and your other passions, it sounds sincere.

She says she doesn't want to push you out of this room.

Do you believe her or is she just lying to us?

I mostly believe her.

Is it all just a hodgepodge mirage?

Oh, man.

Allison, why is it important to you to have guests?

I mean, why is an air and why is an air mattress not okay?

I mean,

in my opinion, an air mattress is a great hint to guests that they are not welcome to come to my house.

Yes.

So what's important about having a good guest space?

I've been thinking about this a lot.

I think a lot of it kind of goes back to like my own family's sort of culture and values.

So I know growing up, we always, I mean, not always, but

I think my parents tried to make it clear that our home was open to others.

So if we had friends or family coming to visit, there was no question of sending them to a hotel.

They always stayed with us.

And we would do the same thing when we travel.

And I've benefited from that as well.

So like when I was a college student, I was living eight hours away from home, but there were families I got to know who would welcome me into their home to stay the night if I needed to.

And I just always appreciated that.

And so when I think about our own home and family, I want to be that kind of warm, welcoming place too.

And

part of that involves like not just accommodations, but actual comfortable accommodations where someone who's tired from traveling or stressed out or whatever can actually sort of relax.

Are your families far enough away that in order to visit you to spend time or help with your child, they would have to spend the night?

So my parents are in South Carolina, so that's a big yes for them.

And then Jeremy's family is about an hour away.

Right.

So it's really you want to shove Jeremy's workbench into the corner so your mom and dad can come and stay with you.

A little bit.

And I don't answer.

That sounds nasty.

I don't mean it that way.

Sorry, I spoke over you.

Please say what you were saying.

Oh, yeah, just, and I don't anticipate them staying for a super long time after we have the baby, but I know they are planning to come and help for a little while.

And so I want them.

to be comfortable while they're here, especially since they have like back problems and things like that.

If they're offering to help, I want to at least accommodate them.

Yeah.

And are you going to do any co-sleeping with the baby?

Because I know that Jeremy, you suggested that you make the baby's room into the guest room and the baby come sleep with you when your parents-in-law come and visit, right?

I suggested many things.

I think you're right.

I think at the beginning it won't be as big of an issue because we'll have, I do think we'll have the baby in the room with us while we're adjusting.

But

Of course, you never know how things will go until you actually have the baby.

But I'm thinking that before too long, we would want him sleeping in his own room.

And I mean, eventually, the baby is going to want to sleep in the room with the giant Game Boy.

The baby's going to want to sleep.

Can you turn the Giant Game Boy into a crib?

That's what I'm wondering.

Why didn't we think of that?

You will want to have a door that closes sooner rather than later, because I really urge everyone to look at this adorable birth announcement video with the fantastic cats, Tobias, and Pumpkin, and the dog named Garfield hilariously.

But you know, Garfield's going to be so happy to see that smelly, new, helpless thing in the house that is your baby.

But your cats are not going to like it.

And

if that baby's sleeping with you, they're going to sneak right up on that baby and steal its breath.

I'm still working on imagining that baby playing that giant Game Boy.

Oh.

Baby's first words are Dr.

Mario.

Nick, do you have any questions that would help clarify things for you before I go into

my chambers and make my verdict?

Just a couple more details.

I'm focusing.

I feel for me, I'm leaning towards finding a solution in the workroom.

So one question, Jeremy.

To the left of the computer workstation, there's a set of shelves, and it looks like it's more storage than

practicable things that need to come in and out frequently.

Would that be a correct assessment?

Yes.

So, you know,

by my way of thinking,

the garage seems like it has some bare walls.

And there's not a lot of extra space around that Mustang, but there are great ways to hang shelves so that you still sort of have floor space.

So, I mean,

I think it's a fun challenge, especially given your proficiency with tools, to find a solution that uh gives your wife everything you need but still allows you to do your fine fret work

at your bench when your in-laws are not sleeping in there i have a question for you jeremy the garage is it heated it is not it is not heated and is it someplace where you could work year-round well the door is not insulated it gets a little cold in the winter and a little hot in the summer very hot in the summer sure All right.

Well, let me just review very quickly.

If I were to rule in your favor, Allison,

what would you have me order?

So two things.

One would be for us

to convert at least part of the workroom into a space that would work for guests.

The second thing would be

since Jeremy would have to scale back a little bit in order to make that happen, maybe to use this time as we're getting ready for the baby in the first few months to kind of slow down on projects and think about longer term what kind of space and what kind of opportunities he wants to really make the most of.

Oh, you just dropped a real bomb now.

Now you're saying like, maybe give up the little projects and let's work on the big project of your life.

Well, you know, we haven't talked about this much, but as he mentioned, he spends 40 hours a week programming and not getting to work on the things that he's passionate about.

And

he's been so busy with everything.

I don't know.

I just think this might be an interesting time to kind of sit back and think about what things, how things could look differently in the future.

Well, the good news is that once you have an infant, you're going to find you have a lot of time on your hands.

You're really going to be able to take care of all those projects.

Oh, yeah.

Jeremy, what's the solution you want?

I want to be able to work on stuff as I please.

And having your mom and dad-in-law in there sleeping late when you want to,

you know, string some guitars, that's no good for you?

I could work around

it as a guest room,

the percentage of the room allocated for that.

All right.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I am going to go out into my chambers garage where I will put on a couple extra layers because it's a little chilly and sit in my dead Mustang.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Jeremy, if you were going to give up one of these beautiful hobbies of yours, which would it be?

Can I say working?

Allison, if you were to have your husband give up one of these beautiful hobbies of his, which would it be?

Oh no.

I hate to say it, but maybe the Mustang.

How are you feeling about your chances, Allison?

About in the middle.

Honestly, with the number of decisions we've had to make getting ready for a baby, I'll just be happy to have any decision made that I did not have to come up with.

Jeremy, how are you feeling?

Well, I want to believe that people love art.

And I think I do art.

So I think I have a good shot.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

One of my great regrets in my life

is that a long long time ago, when I was on a series of commercials and making some money, I had the opportunity to buy a George Nakashima desk, and I didn't do it

because I thought it's a work of art, and I can't use it as a desk.

And all that money went to my children instead, like food and stuff for them.

And I can't afford it now.

What a waste.

Sickening.

Now, what does this have to do with your case?

Nothing.

I just wanted to tell Nick Offerman that I had my hands on a George Nakashima desk once.

Now it's cool.

Judge Hodgman, I text Nick Offerman when there's a George Nakashima desk on the Antiques Roadshow.

That's where I'm at.

Yeah, it's exciting.

An incredible craftsperson.

You should check out the chapter in Nick's book, Gumption, about it.

And you should check out all of Nick's books.

And you should check out George Nakashima.

The point is, it has nothing to do with your case other than a general sense of make hay and buy desks when the sun shines.

The sun is shining on you guys right now.

I hope it always shines on you.

The video you made was totally adorable.

All your pets are adorable.

And you definitely have more time and energy now to do stuff than you're going to have for the next 20 years of your life.

So you're right to be thinking about this and get this sorted out now.

Because all that spare time is going to be very, very much compromised as soon as this wonderful new arrival arrives.

You know what it's a good time to do?

Go and build a workshop in your backyard.

You have a zombie cage you're not using.

Get a shed or build a workshop.

I mean, you should be salivating at this chance to improve your property and improve your investment in this home that you own.

It'll make your home more valuable and it'll give

Jeremy what he needs, which is truly space on site at home.

So he can continue to be a committed dad.

but space on site to work on things that are very

important to him.

You deserve that space.

And I want my verdict to reflect the fact that you deserve that space to pursue these passions.

And they are real passions to you.

This court would never deny them to you.

But before I get to the verdict, let me also say that Allison, you're also right to try to accommodate guests in your home.

I appreciate that you will be

soon at a time in your parenthood, early parenthood, where you really want to share that baby with your parents and give back to them for giving to you,

rather than where I am in parenthood, later parenthood, where I just want to lock the world out, paint the windows black, and hoard the children to myself because they're disappearing before my eyes.

So, even though what you're proposing to me seems like the obvious solution to me is no guest room,

I can appreciate where you're coming from there, and I don't want to deny that to you either.

But I think that it is very, very hard to find a compromise because we are dealing with reality here.

Jeremy is currently taking two major spaces in your house for his projects.

Some would argue that's not fair.

One major space devoted to his projects is plenty.

But he's made this argument that he's got to have that bandsaw out in the garage plus the Mustang plus the inside room to do his fine work.

You want to be the kind of person who wants to bring people into your house for a guest room.

You don't have the room because Jeremy is using it now.

I appreciate Friend of the Court Nick Offerman's suggestion

that

you find some clever way to build in a Batman-style retractable

fake bookshelf that reveals a secret master bedroom just past the beautiful work desk.

I mean, Nick Offerman is my hero.

I'm looking at this room, and I'm not seeing what he's seeing.

I'm seeing a lot of wasted space, yes, but not a lot of space in general.

And it would be very hard, I think, for both Jeremy

and your mom and dad to share that space, Allison, because it's being used for different things.

This is a tough one.

I mean, am I really going to sit here and rule that lovely Jeremy gets to keep his room full of old U-Haul boxes and Atari video computer system games

and

juvenilia

video games and stuff.

He's about to become a father.

He's got to make room.

He already has the garage to himself.

Am I really going to make that ruling?

Right now I am.

And here's why.

It's not exactly fair to be occupying this much space.

I know that it's wonderful to give your friends guitars and stuff.

It's not entirely fair to occupy all this space.

It is a good thing to do to give a place for your mother and father-in-law to sleep in.

You have to have a space of your own, but it can only be one space.

The only reason I'm ruling in your favor right now is essentially it's a stay of execution

because you have no idea

how much of your life is going to be absorbed by this child.

You think you know, but you don't know.

And I think that you need to, before you make a change, before you figure out which of these spaces you're going to give up eventually to consolidate into the garage or a workshop or a slightly off-site area and get your hobby out of the bedroom and into a proper workshop where it belongs, you're going to need to adjust to the new reality and really see and feel just how much time you have for these various projects.

Because there may be a natural culling

that would allow you to realize, yeah, you know, this Mustang has to be put on hold,

or I can find a way to make fewer guitars this year, or I'm not going to have time to do the Game Boy manufacture or whatever.

I think that you're going to find that things will kind of fall away naturally and then you're going to be able to be a little bit more

with a basis in reality say, yeah, I don't need all this space.

I can make this work for you, Alison, love of my life and child to be named later and all of my pets and cats and dogs.

Because this is a small space.

It's a small space you guys have.

And it is.

Even though you have two extra rooms and Jesse Thorne is really marveling at it.

You're about to share it with a whole other human being on top of that menagerie of pets.

You are going to have to give up some space eventually, Jeremy.

But what I'm going to order right now

is that you first of all clean up your room.

And you got to clean up the hodgepodge lodge too.

Because it's messy in there.

You're young people without kids.

You can afford to be messy.

But pretty soon, that baby is going to be crawling around and putting Atari controllers in its mouth and gnawing on your guitar.

You're going to have to get stuff off the floor.

You have to tidy this up.

It's the all-the-time sorcery of cleaning it up with John Hodgman on streaming service to be named later.

And

you have to tidy enough of that, of that spare room, so that when your parents-in-law come, they can have the choice of sleeping on a modest air mattress in that room, because those shells can definitely go into the garage right now.

You can shove a modest air mattress into that corner.

This is not undoing my verdict because it's not what Allison wants.

She wants a real bed in there.

That may come later.

But for now, emergency air mattress in that room.

And you can give your parents the choice of sleeping on an air mattress next to Jeremy's gaming system and empty Chick-fil-A cup on top of it, which is currently pictured.

or staying in a nice Airbnb a block away.

I think they'll choose the Airbnb.

Well, we'll see what happens.

Your number one job is to get ready for that baby.

That means getting a room ready for that baby.

That baby room is going to be really important.

All the other rooms in the house don't matter yet.

You'll get there when you need to get there, but you don't have to have the guest room set up yet.

You have to see how that baby is going to warp your life in a new direction and then make the decision about how you're going to utilize the rest of your space.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that's all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Allison, how do you feel?

I feel good.

I think that's a fair ruling and keeps us from having to...

It gives us time to think through and make the changes that are going to be the best in the long run.

Jeremy, are you prepared to follow the judge's orders?

It's a lot of junk to clean out, but I think I can make do.

Can I ask one more quick question that may or may not be of use?

Is your garage attached?

It is.

You might consider...

I mean, I'm always very grateful for the sensitive justice delivered on this program.

And I think

Judge John Hodgman has gotten to the point that the main project is the family, is the nucleus of you two and your child.

And so that requires the most comfortable space, the closest to the nucleus of where you sleep and where you make food and so forth.

And, of course, I'm a huge proponent of your crafting, but that is something that is more manageably traveled to another space, garage, yard, what have you.

But you might look into

what kind of investment it would take to simply insulate and acclimatize your garage so that when you do have occasion to

spray finish or do fine work on your instruments, you can then flip on the AC or heater.

You know, that would go a long way towards freeing up that room.

Yeah.

It's a better solution than making the baby sleep in the Mustang, that's for sure.

That was my other option.

Alice and Jeremy, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books.

In just a moment, Swift Justice.

But first, we want to thank Brock Maust for naming this week's episode and Baby Makes Plea.

If you want to name a future episode, you should like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

We regularly put out calls for submissions there.

You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets.

Hashtag JJHO.

And make sure to check out the Max Fund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com if you want to chat about this episode.

We're also on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff.

And our thanks to Nick Offerman for joining us this week.

He's on the All Rise tour right now.

You can find more information at offermanwoodshop.com slash events for dates and more info.

Nick, is the Offerman Woodshop still engaged in the practice of Luthery?

It is, yeah.

I'm desperately trying to finish my batch of 11 ukuleles,

and that's preparing the shop to then make them for sale.

I imagine we're probably still a good year out from from that occasion.

We can see it through the mist, though.

Yeah.

And don't forget your brand new podcast, Nick.

Nick nails it.

That's right.

You only have to do one a year.

This was the first one.

You always won in 2020.

I'm game.

Thank you so much for being here.

This week's episode, recorded by Mark Edwards at KAMU Radio in College Station, Texas.

Our producer is the great Jennifer Marmer.

Now Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Are you ready for this, Nick?

I'm ready.

Katie says, My boyfriend thinks it's cruel that I put a collar on my cat, and he insists she's happier without it.

I'm worried we'll need it if she ever gets out, since it has my phone number on the tag.

He says she's too happy to ever run away.

Nick, I'll let you take a swing at this first before I give you my legal opinion.

Oh, boy.

Well,

I

would be happier without wearing pants,

but

things happen sometimes out of our control.

And no matter how happy your pet is, what if it should somehow go missing through some sort of accidental happenstance, like a large raptor bird swooping down and carrying it off?

Carrying it right out of your boyfriend's hands as he offers it to the sky, hoping that someone will take this cat away.

So I 100%.

I have little dogs, and I

would never

take their tags off just because you need to be able to retrieve them if they should get lost, regardless of their mood.

Yeah.

It should not surprise anyone that I agree with Nick Offerman, friend of the court.

I hope your boyfriend runs away.

That's what I hope.

It's not his cat.

Collars on cats is a thing.

Everyone knows it.

It's pretty common.

It's not unusual.

Collars on cats.

And they're essential if they're outdoor cats at all, for the reasons that Nick pointed out.

Put a collar on your boyfriend and maybe get one of those kinds that gives him a little shock every time he strays out of his lane.

That's what I say.

Jesse Thorne, do you disagree?

No, but I would say if you are going to put a collar on your boyfriend, make sure it's a breakaway collar.

Because if he's chasing a bird and he gets hung up on something, we don't want him to asphyxiate.

So ordered.

Nick Offerman, thank you for joining us on the program.

What a joy it's been to have you in your, I'm going to say,

Levi's vintage clothing shirt.

LVC?

Double RL.

Double RL.

Very close.

Very close.

Nick, it's always a joy to see you.

Thank you very much.

It's a privilege.

Thank you for having me.

You can submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO or email hodgman at maximumfund.org.

We are particularly looking for cases for our Los Angeles live show coming up June 6th here in LA.

We hope we will see you there whether or not you have a case.

But if you do have a case, make sure to send it in to us and indicate that you are in Los Angeles.

No case is too small.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Nick nails it again.

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