Jerky Duty

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Jerky Duty, Adara brings the case against her friend Bobby.

They host a radio show together.

Bobby likes to do fake celebrity phone calls on air.

Adara thinks that while it's sometimes funny, it's not always successful.

She'd like him to limit his fake calls.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

So, you have a podcast, Judge John Hodgman, which is getting a lot of attention.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Would you call it a controversial podcast?

Yeah, I would call it controversial.

A lot of people do not like what is in this podcast.

So what's the podcast about?

Well,

basically, it's the ultimate argument settler.

Can you go into that a little bit more?

No.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Adara Bobby, please rise, raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he was an original member of the Jerky Boys?

Yes.

I do.

Judge Hodgman?

You may be seated with all your shoes and glasses.

For an an immediate summary judgment.

Well, first of all, I should say this is our last recording session here in the studios of WERU with super producer, guest producer Joel Mann.

Joel?

The joy and laughter will leave with you.

I'm glad to leave only darkness behind.

Thank you for doing it all this summer.

It's been great, John.

Make sure you check out Joel and his jazz trio night and day on the porch of the Pentago at Inn every Tuesday evening from 5 to 8 p.m.

all the way through the end of this month, September.

It's the most beautiful time in Maine, and I'm not going to be here, I'm afraid.

So, Joel, you can also make a guess on this one.

Maybe you'll win for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either or any of you, Adara, Bobby, or Joel, name the piece of culture that I was referencing when I entered the courtroom?

Why don't we start with you, Adara?

All right.

I just forgot the name of the movie I was going to reference.

So let's go with Good Morning Vietnam.

Good morning, Vietnam.

Good morning, but I prefer to be called Jesse.

I just remembered my original guess.

It's Don't Think Twice, the movie by Mike Berbiglia and Ira Glass.

Don't Think Twice, the movie by Mike Berbiglia and Ira Glass.

How much did Mike and Ira pay for you to guess that?

So now there are two guesses in.

So Bobby, I'm going to allow you to make two guesses.

Yeah.

They were really writing me about getting like a lot of guesses lined up to guess your pop culture reference.

And I was like, I'm not going to practice anything.

Good for you.

That's my attitude whenever I do this.

I take it you don't have a guess.

You're playing for time, so I'm going to give you a hint.

I have a guess.

It popped in my head.

My guess is that it was a conversation between Alexander Grambell and his assistant when they were first testing out the telephone.

All right, well, those are all wrong.

Joel, it's up to you.

Can you guess?

Here, I'm going to give you the hint since Bobby didn't want it.

What if I told you, Joel, that that the band Madness rules

by definition because they invented ska?

I was going to say Martha Stewart and Snoop Dogg on the cooking show,

but now I'm totally confused.

Well, all guesses are wrong.

Judge Hodgman, I know this one.

Do you, Jesse?

I knew it before the hint.

Well, that's because I gave it to you.

Sent the thing to you.

Oh, no, that's right.

You didn't know the answer when I sent it to you.

Okay, go ahead.

I only saw the the dust of the script.

I didn't see anything else besides that script of that exchange.

It's absolutely true.

That's our friends Sean Worcester and Tom Sharpling on the best show on WFMU, now known as The Best Show, from their classic album, Rock, Rot, and Rule.

Absolutely.

Rock, Rot, and Rule.

1997, Jesse Thorne.

21 years ago.

That album can buy alcohol now.

That's how classic it is.

Surprised, Joel, you didn't know about this classic album of comedy.

These guys are really the Joe Bird and the field hippies of long-form radio comedy.

Tom Sharpling hosts a show called The Best Show.

It was originally a radio show.

Now it's a web show.

And it's a call-in show with real callers, but every week when he's available, John Worcester, who's the drummer for Super Chunk and Mountain Goats and a bunch of other bands, would call in as a character of a wide array of different characters that he would do.

And the first and perhaps most seminal one of these was his character, Ronald Thomas Klantel, author of a book called Rock, Rot, and Rule, The Ultimate Argument Settler, in which he just lists names of bands and then a single word next to them delineating whether they rock, whether they rot, or do they rule.

So for example, Madness, the band Madness, rules by definition because they invented ska, but David Bowie rots because too many changes.

Now, Joel Mann, you work at radio station.

Did the band Madness invent ska?

No.

Of course not.

Of course they didn't.

But this got people so angry that they called up and started yelling at John Worcester in character.

And it's one of the funniest 47 minutes that I've ever listened to.

And I encourage you all to go find it wherever you can.

I believe it's part of the big box set of the best show, which is worth having if you like radio.

And if you like fake voices, Bobby.

Because this one's for you.

You call and do your own show with fake voices.

You didn't get rock, rot, and rule?

No.

Guess what?

I rule against you.

Immediate summary judgment in Adar's favor.

No, no, Tom Sharpling.

Good heavens.

So tell me your story, you guys.

First of all, Bobby, I'm already against you because you call all nuts peanuts.

Oh, no.

I was trying to keep that a secret.

No, nothing's a secret from me.

You guys, I already ruled on a case between you, you guys, because you

really, John,

nothing is a secret from you.

He sees all.

Yeah, that's why I'm so wise.

Okay.

Because I put Nest cameras into every home in America.

John Hodgman is not only a podcast, it's also a panopticon.

We've known each other a long time.

I consider us very good friends, but I didn't know that I held no secrets from you.

I know it all.

I know everything, Jesse.

Well, no, I don't know everything, but I definitely know that Adara and Bobby wrote in a case that I adjudicated in the New York Times magazine.

And it was you, Adara, who brought the complaint, or was it someone else that Bobby adjudicated?

No, it was me.

Yeah, she's got a lot of problems with me.

Yeah, Bobby calls all nuts pee nuts because he thinks all nuts are the same.

And this made me very upset because words have meaning.

And also,

some nuts aren't true nuts.

Some are legumes.

Some are droops.

So there you go.

Bobby, you're already too down now.

I've grown from that experience, though.

I have a new understanding.

That's right.

And you're about to have a new new one.

I'm just trying to imagine just eating a macadamia nut and thinking it was the same as a peanut.

It's just sickening.

Where do you guys live again?

Ashland, Oregon.

Ashland, Oregon.

Well, that explains it, Jesse.

They only have one kind of nut there.

Brazil nuts.

It's a very sad town.

Ashland, Oregon.

That is in southern Oregon, is it not?

That is.

Yeah, I don't want to blow up anybody's spot, but that's not too far from where my friend Bruce Campbell lives or lived.

I actually haven't spoken to him in a couple of years, so please don't chase him down and tell him I gave up his location.

John, do you think we could get Bruce Campbell to be in the Oregon Shakespeare Festival based in Ashland, Oregon?

I think that probably he could.

That's right.

More Ashland connections, the Shakespeare Oregon Festival.

Also, us.

Okay, yeah, let's get back to you, Bobby.

And you, Adara.

Yeah, Bobby and Adaro, where do you stand on that one water fountain in Ashland, Oregon that puts out gross mineral water?

We have subjected friends to it who are visiting and then laughed at them after they drank from it.

I enjoy it.

Classic pranks.

Is it mineral water straight up from the ground like in Saratoga Springs?

And it sort of tastes like you're licking the inside of a pipe?

Yes.

Yeah.

That's a wonderful summary.

It's very silver.

Like you're licking the inside of a pipe where a bunch of hard-boiled eggs were stored for too long.

That's it.

But it has healing powers, so.

That's pseudoscience, Bobby.

Is that how Ashland, Oregon got settled?

Was it a hot springs curing waters kind of town?

Or was it primarily known for its free form radio?

A little of both.

And some gold.

Yeah.

People went out there chasing freeform radio, and when they found the gold, they stayed.

All right.

What is your radio show?

What station is it on?

This is the topic of conversation.

We have a radio show called Dream Infringement.

It is on KSKQ, our local community radio station,

which we love dearly.

And every week we come up with a theme and tell stories and play songs about that.

And it's interspersed with a lot of banter because we have a lot to say.

And there are four hosts.

You are 50% of the hosts of this show.

Yeah.

Who are the other hosts?

My wife, Emily, and our good friend, Jennifer.

Fantastic.

Give me the day it's on every week and the time.

Every Monday from 6 p.m.

to 7 p.m.

Pacific Standard Time.

Well, that sounds very cute, and I'm grateful to use this podcast to buzz market your show.

I listened to a little bit on some of the SoundCloud clips that you sent over as evidence.

All that evidence is be posted on the Judge John Hodgman page on maximumfund.org because it is SoundCloud evidence.

It will not be on our Instagram page at instagram.com/slash judge Sean Hodgman, but you should go there and follow it anyway because it's a lot of fun.

It's a lot of banter, it's a lot of talk and friends getting together once a week to enjoy each other and probably four or five listeners tuning in, and then it's available on the web, I presume, as well.

That is, Bobby is our biggest fan.

He listens more than anyone.

I do.

And the problem here is that Bobby, in the tradition of Ronald Thomas Klantel

and other radio fake callers, a la Phil Hendry, you call into the show or pretend to call into the show.

Oh man, I just got a big nod of approval from Joel Mann on that Phil Hendry reference.

I really touched some spot in Joel on that one.

I'm glad that that got to you, Joel.

Thank you.

You call in or pretend to call in as characters, as famous people who are not you.

Is that right?

Yeah, yeah.

It's mainly for our pledge drives.

I thought it would be really fun to kind of mix things up

and keep things moving kind of, you know, so it isn't a drag through the whole hour

of us just begging people to donate money.

And I just thought it would be I thought it would be like something to kind of like, you know, mix it up a little bit and keep things

interesting.

He says it's mainly for the pledge drive.

He did do one this very Monday.

and

in the past couple months, I would say around one per episode.

So how long has this been going on, Adara?

Since our spring pledge drive.

So that would be May.

So a few months.

Started at the pledge drive, but now you're saying he's gotten a little bit of a taste for it.

What kind of characters does he play when he calls in, Adara?

He will play a variety of people.

A lot of people that I don't really know because I was raised by hippies without popular culture.

Also born in the late 90s, so she missed all of that.

I am as old as your obscure cultural reference.

Oh, wow.

Well, congratulations on being able to buy alcohol.

It has been thrilling.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Happy birthday.

It's an exciting life event.

So you don't know even the names of the people that he's pretending to be?

No,

I do.

So tell me that.

His first one ever was Dr.

Oz.

Also a proponent of pseudoscience.

And on Monday, he did Batman.

He's also done Justin Bieber,

Gilbert Gottfried, Tim Gunn,

and Michael Kors.

You don't know who any of these people are?

I know who Tim Gunn and Michael Kors are.

I have heard of Batman.

But you don't know who he is.

I guess he's some kind of, I don't know, guy who loves bats.

Hang on a second.

Adara, would you cover your ears?

Bobby, Joel, Jesse, let's not tell Adara who Batman is.

Let's just have her believe that there's been this comic book since the 20s about a guy who loves bats.

Every issue is just a guy going, I love those bats and taking care of bats

and nothing happens or something.

Anything else you want to trick her with?

He probably has to get some insects to feed him.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

He's a bat keeper.

Signal to to Adara.

She can take her hands off her ears now.

Oh.

And I'm back.

Adara, tell us what you think Batman is.

Well, from Monday, I heard a lot about

a fitty.

Wrong.

It's about a guy who likes bats.

This is true.

Okay, let's move on.

Bobby.

Yeah.

Give me some of your Batman.

Oh, no.

It's kind of like,

hi, I'm Batman.

It's not good.

I mean, that's the whole point.

I would agree.

Thank you.

I would agree.

The whole point.

No, no.

Stand by.

This is my podcast.

It's not your radio show.

My podcast.

Let me hear you, Justin Bieber.

Hey, guys, want to make some pop music?

All right.

I mean, it's uncanny.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I follow him on Instagram.

I listened to a little of your call-in as Robert Downey Jr.

Give me a little RDJ.

Okay.

I'm a big-time movie star.

It's bad.

I know it's bad.

I agree.

What I love about that is you're doing the joke of not doing an impression, but describing who you are.

Right?

So it's like, hi, I'm Batman.

I'm a man who loves bats, like everyone knows, through popular culture.

Or, hey, I'm Justin Bieber.

I'm a pop singer.

You're not changing anything.

But with Robert Downey Jr., like, you're not only doing that non-joke, but you're also being woefully unspecific.

Not even like, hi, I'm Robert Downey Jr.

I star in the Avengers films.

It's like, hi, I'm Robert Downey Jr., a man with three names.

Let me hear you, Gilbert Godfrey.

Oh, no.

I don't know what's going to come out because I only did it that one time.

So.

Okay, here we go.

I'm really hoping that you say I'm Batman again, but here we go.

You do your thing.

Hey, guys, what's going on?

It's bad.

I know it's bad.

Yeah, but in that one, at least you're trying.

Yeah, I had to cover half my face to do it.

I'm pretty sure you're trying to do Al Pacino.

I think you're trying to do Gilbert Gottfried as Christian Bale as Batman.

Let's take a quick recess and hear about another one of the great shows from MaximumFund.org.

We'll be back with more Judge John Hodgman in just a moment.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfund.org slash join.

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The court of Judge John Hodgman is back in session.

You've heard some of Bobby's celebrity impressions.

Now let's get back into the courtroom to hear why he does these impressions on his radio show with Adara.

So obviously with these fake calls, you're not fooling anybody.

What's your inspiration for doing this?

Well, okay.

I

have been an avid listener of the Judge John Hodgman podcast for like a couple years.

And when I first discovered it, I was listening to myself.

You call all my callers fake?

Is that what you're saying?

You just call it fake?

Yeah, why do you think people love this show so much?

They tune in to hear the magic of the man of a thousand voices.

Hey guys, I'm the bad brother and I'm the other bad brother.

Remember that one?

That's a great hit.

Hey, it's me, a lady who has a chart chart for how close she is in friendship to everybody in a wife.

I'm walking here.

I tell you, I don't get no respect.

I got a system for how to do the dishes around the house.

My wife doesn't like it.

I get no respect.

Okay, what were you saying, Bobby?

What was your inspiration?

When did you get this idea?

So I was listening to an old episode of Judge John Hodgman, and there was this episode.

We were getting, like, it was the week of our pledge drive.

It was coming up and there was a lot of nerves between the four of us of like, what are we going to do?

And then I heard this episode where you were,

uh, you were acting, you were like doing a character, which was like Bruce Banner.

Like, you were kind of between Bruce Banner and the Hulk.

And you're talking about how you had dropped your money down a sewer grate and you're trying to get it back.

I don't remember all the specifics.

I tried to find it, but I couldn't.

I feel like a man suffering from amnesia.

Yeah, so you're saying that this whole concept came from you having one weird malaria dream?

Well, I heard that, and it was really funny to, it was just you doing your own voice and then saying you were the Hulk.

And

it was really, I don't know, it was funny to kind of see.

Jesse Thorne's reaction and

I thought, I'm going to bring something like this to the table.

It'll be great for the pledge drive.

And so I came up with like a bunch of really crazy scenarios that would ultimately end in us, you know, in me asking, like, how am I supposed to donate this money if I wanted to?

And then they provide the information on air.

And they loved it.

I could tell.

They really enjoyed it.

They were like, what?

Because I surprised them with it.

And they were kind of thrown off a little bit.

But they also seemed to really, they thought it was funny, I thought.

Adara, you wouldn't be here if you thought it was funny.

What do you think of the man of a single voice?

And,

well, and two voices, the Bobby voice and his weird mutant Godfrey voice.

And what kind of energy does it bring to your radio show?

So, I will say, I actually thought that the Robert Downey Jr.

one kind of funny, entertaining.

But I would also say that the phone calls take a long time

and

that

I think that Bobby has done funnier bits.

What bits would you have him do?

I totally love Bobby.

I think he's great on the air.

Look, we all love Bobby.

We all love Bobby off the air.

But what's a best Bob bit?

I think

the best Bobby bits are not necessarily like planned out bits.

Not that these are planned out because he is never more prepared than we are.

He generally starts out not knowing who he's going to impersonate and then expects us to also run with it.

Is there one that has gone spectacularly wrong?

I would say that among the ones that have gone the most wrong, the one where he talked about baseball was probably

the most disastrous in that it wasn't actually a fake phone call, but we were all very confused by it.

And the Robert Downey Jr.

one also went pretty disastrously wrong in that Jennifer thought it was an actual phone ringing and kept trying to answer the studio phone because it was a pledge drive, and if we don't answer the phones, then we don't get the money.

I am chomping at the bit right now.

I have so much I want to say.

Oh, no, you are not, sir.

Oh, no, you are not chomping at any bits in my courtroom.

You're champing at the bit.

Oh, yeah, I can be a petant about it.

Champing at the bit is the phrase you wish to be using.

Apologies, Your Honor.

I'll let you champ a second more, champ.

Let's take a little listen to this Robert Downey Jr.

bit.

Speaking of being on top,

I think we have

another celebrity that's scheduled to call in any minute now.

What?

Yeah, any minute now.

He's,

I told him, call in around 7:32

and a half minutes.

So we should wait and that was 6.32, I'm sorry.

Yeah, call us when we're not here.

Call Marco.

Call Marco.

All right.

Oh.

And we have a call.

We do?

We do.

Where did the phone go?

I think this is our celebrity calling in right now.

All right.

Jennifer, you want to answer that phone?

The celebrity phone call?

Oh, not the real life one that's happening.

It's still ringing.

Oh, no.

Nope.

We can't find the phone.

You answer it.

Hello.

Hi there.

This was just so well done.

Hi there.

I'm Mr.

Ed.

This is Robert Downey Jr.

All right.

There was a phone ringing.

Was that a fake phone?

Is that a phone sound effect?

It was fake, yes.

But it sounds a lot like the actual phone in our studio.

Yeah.

It It was confusing.

And Bobby, A, you were not definitely not doing a Robert Downey Jr.

voice.

And B, you didn't even sound like you were on the phone.

Obviously, you were standing there right in front of them.

All of a sudden, you're claiming to be Robert Downey Jr.

How is it that your co-hosts aren't going to start thinking that maybe they're having a stroke?

And just the way I felt, like,

I was having a mental collapse, or you were describing my doing a Bruce Banner, you know, between Bruce Banner, Hulk bit, losing my money down a well or whatever thing that never happened, gaslighting me with that stuff.

This is disruptive to your cohort.

Don't you agree?

I understand that it is

like it does throw them off,

but I feel like I've done a lot of experimenting in the studio with different bits and different, like, I've just kind of put things out there.

And a lot of it is dependent on their reaction.

And they tend to,

how should I say this?

Like, thrive

in

an environment with boundaries and

rules, you know, that kind of thing.

And so I feel like when I can kind of create a- Only child paradise is what you mean.

When I can create a situation that does throw them off, it's really fascinating to me to see like what

they do about it.

And so.

So creating chaos and disruption for your co-hosts, for your own amusement, is the benefit.

Is it a benefit to the show?

Do you have any feedback from your listener about this?

People like this thing?

Well, I don't...

There's not a lot of listeners who

will say,

I really liked that last show and this is why.

I would disagree.

Well, you have more friends.

You have more friends that are listeners.

Adara, what kind of feedback have you gotten for Bobby's celebrity impressions?

So, what I would say to that is that we haven't gotten any feedback on it.

Whereas with other things we do, we might have someone call in and say, I'm really enjoying what you're doing.

Keep it up.

Bobby, you do these during the pledge drive.

Have they ever engendered any pledges?

I mean, I feel that I personally have drawn pledges.

I don't know if the phone calls themselves have motivated people to take out their wallets.

I would say that our station manager once called in and made a pledge during our show, but I wouldn't say that that was because of the phone bit.

But we may not be able to find out if it was connected.

We do ask why they donated.

We do?

Yeah.

Okay.

Have you only ever gotten one pledge?

And it was from the station man.

That really was what that story seemed to be suggesting.

On our last pledge drive, we got two pledges, and we did get a record for our

monetary donations.

So.

But how was the person connected to the show that made the biggest pledge?

I'll allow this question.

It does seem to be leading, but I'll allow it.

I'll see where he's going with it, Adara.

Answer the question, please.

The biggest pledge we got was from

a person in the community who Bobby knows.

Bobby has done work for him.

But he was a KFKQ fan before knowing Bobby and enjoyed our show before he knew Bobby was on it.

What kind of work do you do for this billionaire in Ashland who gave your station a billion dollars?

I clean windows.

Is this a radio station or are you guys just talking loud in a city park?

You can't see where Joel Mann and I are right now, W-E-R-U, but this is an old-time community radio station, community-supported, right, Joel?

That's right.

And this place is a dump, but I'll say this.

It's full of great people, great music, and a lot of community support.

And it's been around for 30 years.

Jesse Thorne's Maximum Fund.

network is also pledge drive supported.

Money is raised.

It sounds like you guys guys are just getting two or three pledges.

What's the size of the station?

What's going on?

Well, the station is slightly larger than a studio apartment.

How long has it been around?

Almost 10 years, maybe.

It's changed hands and names a number of times.

Yeah.

What other kind of stuff do they have on the station?

There's like

Reggae.

They play a lot of demographics.

I got the picture.

I got the picture.

Reggie.

That's all I need to know.

I know exactly what kind of radio station this is.

There's the dog with the bandana who has the folk show.

There's also a lot of world music.

Do you have any white people with dreadlocks who do fake Jamaican patois?

A lot, yes.

Yeah.

It's a classic.

It's Ashland, Oregon.

Come on.

So this is a new enterprise, relatively new.

Where does your show rank in the popularity of the station?

It doesn't sound like you're big earners for the station.

I'd say we're up there.

Yeah.

Adara?

A lot of people have called us new and vibrant.

And fresh.

And fun.

Yeah.

Right.

All right.

I got you.

A lot of programmers have mentioned that we bring like a youthful voice

because we're always like, we're always looking up.

I don't want to.

I don't know if this is like buzz marketing, but we're always Googling things.

And I don't think they do that very much.

Pretty much this whole episode is a buzz market for your show.

You understand that, right?

That's the goal.

I realize that now.

Bobby, how much preparation you put into these gags?

You just start and you don't even know who you're going to be?

So, okay.

When it first started out,

I...

You know what?

I really...

You know what, Bobby?

I like this.

Bobby, stop.

Stop.

Bobby, stop.

I know that you're a fan of the Judge Sean Hodgman show, and I love your energy.

But you are starting and stopping with very little flow.

Collect your thoughts.

Okay.

Answer your question.

Dara, how much effort does Bobby put into these characters?

How much planning does go into them, the best of your knowledge?

Well, you've listened.

So I would say that you can probably tell that there isn't a lot of planning.

For example, in the Dr.

Oz call, he didn't actually know what Dr.

Oz did.

What was his guess?

That he was a doctor in Oz?

That he was a physician in the Emerald City?

Specializing in houses falling on people?

He's a large animal veterinarian specializing in horses that change color.

He said something about Oprah and that he might be a surgeon.

That's pretty close.

Yeah, I mean, throw in Love's Blueberries and you got a pretty good picture of Dr.

Oz.

Would you like this bit to continue or would you like it to end?

I mean, you're bringing this to court.

I have the power to shut down this whole line of arguable comedy from

Bobbity.

Excuse me.

Luckily, this isn't radio.

It's a podcast, so we can edit it.

But leave it in.

I'll leave in my mistakes.

You want me to shut down Bobbity on this one?

So what I would say to that is that originally, I really wanted it to not happen again.

But after talking to Bobby about it, he seems really passionate about it.

And as co-hosts, I would feel sad if he had to stop doing something that he loved,

but I would like some conditions to be attached to it.

All right, what conditions?

I want him to know who he is going to impersonate before he starts the call

and to tell the person that he is calling that he will be calling them and impersonating this person and the direction that he wants to go.

Not a script, but just like,

this would be the general ending that I would like, so that we can support him in his comedy.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me, Bobby.

What do you think about that?

Does that go against your desire to throw your co-hosts and friends into chaos and confuse them for your own amusement?

Well, I do like the idea of having

a Rolodex of celebrity names in my head.

That's what I do when I first...

get into the studio and I'm preparing for lots of calls, I guess, for a pledge drive.

So I have a few names in my head, and I like the randomness of them not knowing who it's going to be, because I think that it's like a phone call that's coming in, and you don't know

who it's going to be.

And I like the idea that it would catch them off guard, and then they have to

adjust for that.

But we hate phone calls.

Is it a call-in show?

It is not.

It's not.

All right.

So I'm about ready to make my verdict, but

before I do, I want to ask Adara a couple of follow-up questions.

And while I'm doing that, at some point, Bobby, I just want you to go ring-ring, and then I want you to be a character.

Much like your show, it isn't a call-in show.

And I want to see how this goes here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Okay.

So you get ready anytime you're ready.

So Adara, a little bit earlier, Bobby mentioned he wanted to have a Rolodex in his head.

Now, you're 21 years old, old, so you don't know what a Rolodex is.

A Rolodex is a kind of device for cataloging bats, such as Are Loved by the Batman in the famous.

Oh, excuse me for a minute, Adara.

Telephone here.

Very strange.

Jesse, can you reach the phone and hand it to me?

Yeah, here you go.

Thanks.

Hello, Judge Sean Hodgman Show.

You're on the air.

Hello, this is star Carl Weathers from Predator.

I'm a celebrity.

Oh.

You might remember me from that movie.

Yeah, right.

Like, you even needed to say his name.

We all thought immediately that's Carl Weathers from Predator.

Carl, you know what?

I got to say, you're selling yourself short.

You just, all you need to do is say, this is the star of Predator.

And I'm going to think, that's got to be Carl Weathers of Action Jackson and, of course, the Rocky movies.

How are you, Carl?

Oh, I've been better.

What's going on?

Well,

they want to make another Predator, and they want me to be in it, but I haven't really kept up with my exercises, so

I'm afraid I won't have the bod that I had when we first did it.

Are you out of shape?

Is that what you're saying?

Basically.

Yeah.

What's your exercise routine?

Um, well, uh, I do a jog like every other day,

but it's a struggle for me.

Quick question, Carl.

When you talk about doing a jog, are you talking about a short run or a single step?

It's a good, uh, a good 15-minute jog.

Well, I'm going to tell you something, Carl Weathers, that is more than I do of a day for exercise.

Well, then why am I calling you?

I wanted you to be my trainer.

Oh, no, wait a minute.

Just because I'm indolent and out of shape doesn't mean I can't be a trainer.

I can follow you in a car and throw, you know, slabs of meat at you, just like Ian Rocky did, that crusty old man Mick, throw slabs of meat at him, get him to run faster up those stairs to the museum in Philadelphia.

That's what I can do.

I can do that for you, Carl Axon Jackson Weathers.

That's the kind of energy I need.

When do you start shooting?

In three months.

What's your goal weight?

160 pounds.

160 pounds?

And what's your current weight, if I may ask?

I'm 300 pounds.

Yeah, that's a lot of meat I'm going to have to throw at you.

And you can't eat any of it once I throw it, Carl.

You understand that?

I do.

That's just training meat.

And quick question before I move and and leave my family and move out to Ashland, Oregon, where you currently live, to start training you to be in the new Predator film, which is shooting in three months, even though I think it's coming out in two months.

Is this the sequel to the new one?

Yeah, it is.

Oh, okay.

Before I make this commitment, Carl,

has the studio actually called you and expressed interest in having you be in the film?

Or are you just putting yourself on tape?

I really think the script that I wrote is going to get picked up.

It's It's got some good stuff in it.

And seen.

You know what, Bobby?

What?

I think I have everything I need in order to make my decision.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Bobby, how are you feeling about your chances in the case?

Not good.

Adara, how are you feeling?

I feel

also not great.

Yeah, I

get the sense, partly, that if I were more willing to kind of step back and let Bobby lead, which I recently discovered is what he really wants out of these phone calls, a chance to just be funny against what's essentially a robot that gives yes or no answers.

it would go better.

And I guess I could be a more generous person and just let him do that.

Have either of the two of you listened to the community radio show that I did that became this podcast empire back when the manager of my community radio station was Judge John Hodgman producer Jennifer Marmor?

No, but it sounds really good.

Yeah, where do I find it?

It's not, and you shouldn't, but I'm still judging you for not having heard it.

We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a minute.

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

You may be seated.

First of all, Bobby,

I have zero memory of doing a bit as Bruce Banner turning into the Hulk

while confronting Pennywise the Clown at a sewer grate, or whatever it was.

I can't even imagine the circumstances that would get me to that part or that I would be doing a case.

Jesse, do you have any memory of this at all?

No, it's all kind of a haze to me.

You know what?

For a minute, I thought I remembered it, but then I realized that was just the time that me and Jordan did the Sound of Young America, our college radio show, in our underpants at the base of the UCSC campus and interviewed Mark Maron.

And Mark Maron never let us live it down for now 18 years.

Bobby, do you remember what verdict that was, what episode that was?

I need to know.

Or are you just playing with my mind?

Are you playing with my mind for your own amusement the way you're playing with the minds of Adara and Emily?

And what's the other name of the other co-host?

Jennifer.

Jennifer, Jennifer, are you playing with my mind the way you're playing with their minds?

No, no.

It was, okay, all I remember is it was a pledge drive that you were doing the bit on.

All right.

Was it a pledge drive for Judge Sean Hodgman?

Yeah, yeah.

It was a pledge drive for...

I'll interrupt you there.

It was a pledge drive for maximum fun.

Yeah, you guys were clearing the docket, I think, possibly, but

yeah, you were definitely the Hulk.

and you were struggling to reach it because of your big hand.

I'm struggling.

I'm about to turn into the Hulk right now if you don't let me talk.

It was the pledge drive for maximum fun.

It was obviously not a pledge drive for WFMU back when the best show was on WFMU because I contributed to some of the pledge drives there.

And if you had heard me there, then you would have listened to the best show with Tom Sharpling.

and John Worcester, and then you would know a little bit better how to do these fake call-ins.

Because those call-ins,

they sound like he's making it up as he goes along.

It sounds like improv.

But as a matter of fact, whatever character John is doing, he plans out where he wants to go and what's going on and how to wrap it up.

And Tom and he work on that together and they have a general sense, as Adara was saying, of how it's going to go.

And it has this beautiful feeling of strangeness because they take their time.

Like a lot of freeform radio, there isn't a lot of time constraints because there are no advertising.

And they take their time and they go to weird places, and it sounds like it's made up on the spot, but in fact, it's got direction and purpose.

And it's a beautiful work of art that I would encourage you to listen to.

Because though everyone has the idea in life,

that we'll just do it on the fly.

It'll be fun.

In fact, doing it on the fly is mostly fun for the people who are doing it and not so much fun for the people who are there to see it.

Right?

Because the people who are there to see it, if they sense that you are not prepared, if you don't have a plan,

then they're going to feel at sea, at loss.

They're going to feel like, oh, I'm not central to this.

This isn't being made for anyone other than the people who are making it.

I should just leave or turn off the radio.

What is it that Jimmy Pardo always talks about, Jesse Thorne?

The term sprezzatzura?

Sprezzatura.

Sprezzatura.

It's an Italian word, I believe, right?

It's an appetizer of some kind, Jesse?

Yeah, I think it's Italian for mozzarella sticks.

Right.

No, it is the illusion of spontaneity that is grounded in preparation.

And even within improv,

which, by the way, I do very little of, and what little I do is pretty...

Even improv

is founded upon preparation, whether that is rehearsal, training, learning how the other person works, and supporting them when they're doing their thing and backing off when you're doing your thing.

All that preparation goes into the improvisational moment of improv.

Now look, you guys have a lot of energy.

I'm not surprised that people who listen to the radio station are like, this is a breath of fresh air.

Oh, I've got to wave wave this pot smoke away from me.

This is a breath of fresh air here in Ashland, Oregon.

Love hearing these young people talk.

But you guys have to get better.

You have a basic natural energy that I enjoy.

But Adara, I'm going to be blunt.

You know, you come to my podcast to plug your thing.

So this is the critique now.

You're more comfortable on your own show than on mine, Bobby.

But Adara has got flow.

She can say those sentences.

She doesn't stop herself in the middle of stuff.

She gets her words out.

She's got a radiolicious voice.

You've got funny, but you were a little jumpy on this show.

You kind of were not getting your point across.

You were kind of backing off your words.

You were circling back around to something that we had already covered and that kind of thing.

You got to get better.

And you got to get better through preparation.

But I will say this, Bobby.

That Carl Weathers thing was was pretty funny.

I enjoyed doing that with you.

That was fun.

I enjoyed it too.

You got smooth then.

Did you feel it?

Did you feel that energy when you were on top of what you were saying?

I did.

It was magic.

Well, yeah.

Imagine if you were working with a truly skilled improviser.

But the fact is, what I was doing with you

was giving you places to go.

And you saw where to go and you went there.

Or you went in a different direction that was even more amusing for me.

You know, I was providing a certain amount of structure, which is what the straight person does in these contexts, and you were weaving around that.

And I did that because you had no structure, other than I'm Carl Weathers star of predator, which is actually a pretty funny joke that Carl Weathers would think of himself as the star of predator rather than thinking of himself as Apollo Creed or something else.

That was a good joke.

And I think that if you guys work together

to prepare a little bit more and to support each other, which Adara is more than willing to do, this can be a good bit.

But I think you have to get over the idea, Bobby, that the fun part is being disruptive for your co-hosts.

Because then you're just making the show for, not even for each other, you're making the show for yourself.

And that's when people turn off.

Got to make the show for the world.

Everybody who's out there listening.

So you've got to be smooth.

You got to think ahead.

You got to prepare.

I've done lots of these episodes where I've not prepared enough and it is not fun for me and I don't think it's great for the audience.

So I really work hard now to really get ahead of my words.

I don't always do it, but the effort, I hope, shows.

And I think that this bit can work.

I think that you've got the chops and you get better when you do it.

And Adara is sitting there going, I want to help you.

Don't.

mess us up.

Don't make fake phone call sounds when we're not expecting it.

Don't come in there and not know who you're doing or why you're doing it.

They're here to help you.

So I'm going to allow this bit to continue, but I am definitely going to rule in Adara's favor and suggest certain strictures, some of which she asked for.

One of which is that you know who you're doing, that you let them know who you're doing, you give them at least an inkling of where you want to go with it.

So that they can support you and give you the structure that you need to get your jokes out.

And then if you go in weird directions, they'll know that you're going off in a weird direction and you're doing it for a a reason and they'll help you get around to it.

And I think it would make sense for you guys to do a little rehearsal of this stuff off radio.

I know this is just fun time local radio.

We're all just spinning Joe Bird of the field hippies at the end of the day.

But, you know, take it seriously if you're going to do it at all.

Because I think you guys can do better than two pledges in a pledge drive.

I think you'd probably do four or six or eight or ten.

So you're definitely going to figure out who you're going to do.

You're going to plan it out a little bit.

You're going to say who wants to take this call from Carl Weathers, who believes that he's going to be in the next Predator movie but isn't actually going to be in it.

And one of them will say, me.

And then you're going to go into another room and you're going to call the studio.

You're going to learn how to take that call in the studio.

Or at least fake a phone call so that it's not just clearly you sitting there talking to them, but it sounds like a phone call.

And you're going to do one more thing, which is you're going to go back and listen to Rock, Rot, and Rule by Sharpling and Worcester.

You're going to go back and listen to as many Sharpling and Worcester phone calls as you can because he's not calling in his celebrities mostly.

He sometimes calls in as Gene Simmons.

Forgot about that.

That's a good gag.

And you should not feel self-conscious about borrowing, not actual bits or words, but getting inspiration, ideas.

approaches for how to do these conversations.

I think you'll enjoy them a lot.

I think you'll learn from them a lot.

And I think think you guys will get to have something that is all your own pretty soon if you work at it a little bit more.

You can't just go on a fairly popular podcast and drop the name of your show.

What is it?

Dream Intruders?

Very close.

Dream Infringement.

Dream Infringement.

On what station again?

KSKQ.

And where can it be found online?

You can find us on SoundCloud by searching Dream Infringement.

And we're also on Instagram and Facebook under Dream Infringement.

You've got a great radio voice, Adara.

You can't just go on a popular podcast and say those words and think that's all it takes.

You got to make your thing the best it can be, and I know you can do it.

Now I'll say, this is the sound of gabble.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Adara, how are you feeling right now?

I am feeling excited, excited to get better and do do good improv.

And

I also got Bobby a consolation prize.

So I'm going to give that to him now.

What?

There you go.

Thank you.

It's a little enamel pin of Fry from Futurama.

He's my favorite character.

Bobby, how are you feeling?

Pretty good now that he got that enamel pin.

I'm feeling humbled because John Hodgman set me straight about not finishing my sentences.

I do feel that

I am

not

very prepared when I do my phone calls, and I know that they can benefit from that.

And I know that doing research is going to help.

I've learned a lot.

You really should be happy from this because this is going to give you a chance to listen to the legendary Sharpling and Worcester telephone call, The Gorch, in which Roland Gorchnik claims to be the original model for the Fons

and tries out,

insists that they play his regional hit from the 1950s, Chain Fight Tonight, and tries out his catchphrase, 63 years cool and still doing it, baby.

I'm already laughing.

You know, the lesson here, Tom and John Worcester spend hours writing the material for those calls.

They only appear to be purely improvised.

So I think you've got a lot of work ahead of you, but if you put in the work, you'll have some fun.

Thank you both of you for coming on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

In just a minute, we'll dispense some swift justice.

But first, our thanks to Adam Labonte, or possibly Labonte, for naming this week's episode Jerky Duty.

If you'd like to name a future episode like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, that's where we ask for your suggestions.

It's worth doing just to see all the dumb dumb puns that people come up with.

You can follow us on Twitter at Hodgman and at Jesse Thorne.

Hashtag you judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJ H O.

We always love to see what you think about the show.

And check out the Maximum Fund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com to discuss this week's episode.

This week's episode, by the way, recorded by Jared Garcia at Blackstone Publishing and Downpour.com in Ashland, Oregon, and also by Joel Mann at WERU Radio in Orland, Maine.

We'll see you next summer, Joel.

Our producer, the ever-capable Ms.

Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Gabrielle says, my office mate insists on letting women off of the elevator first, even when he's right by the door.

I'm a woman.

I'd prefer no morning traffic jam.

Shouldn't chivalry be dead?

I am a fan of people being polite to each other and allowing other people to exit first or what have you.

And I prefer that this be done in a gender-neutral way.

You know, whatever way most efficiently evacuates an elevator or a small space and keeps things moving and keeps everyone happy.

And part of keeping everyone happy is if you're a man in an elevator with a woman, don't be weird.

Don't make any weird movements.

Don't act in any...

unusual ways or ways that might make another person feel uncomfortable.

And I think that it is fair that if you are standing,

you know, the elevators are very enclosed spaces where bad things could happen.

And I think even a nice gesture might be interpreted as a warning or a fear moment for a woman, especially if she is on her own or for a man for that matter.

So I would say that the best way to exit an elevator, if you're in the front, leave.

Don't be making any weird sort of twist arounds to kind of say, ladies, because that's no, we don't need it.

We don't need it in that case.

I think Gabrielle is absolutely right.

And in the same vein, I would like to point out that

we settled a docket question back in episode 371 into the teal.

A woman was in a dispute with her boyfriend.

When she went over to a boyfriend's house, she wanted to lock the doors at the house when he was of the habit to leave them unlocked.

And she especially wanted to do this while showering.

And we had a conversation about it.

And ultimately, we ruled in her favor.

If it makes her more comfortable to lock the doors, she should.

But a number of people wrote in saying that we really downplayed the concern and fear that women have when they're alone in a home.

It certainly was not our intention to downplay that, but enough people wrote in pointing this out that I feel that we must have, and I apologize for that.

Absolutely, stand by the ruling and will re-emphasize that if you are in a vulnerable position, whether you're a man, a woman, or non-binary, you're taking a shower, you're home alone, you're walking through a creepy basement, you should lock the door.

You should do what it takes to make yourself feel and know that you are safe and comfortable.

And don't let any podcast tell you different.

So that's my apology for that one and my ruling for the other one, Ben or anybody.

Don't be creepy on elevators in general.

And I'm saying all this totally cognizant of the fact that this is my last time here in studio for the summer with Joel Mann and Joel living in Maine.

You probably don't even know what an elevator is.

No, I've heard it referenced, but.

it's not something you see a lot here.

No.

No, I think they had one at the Bangor World's Fair a couple of years ago, just as a display right now.

Just as a display, right.

Joel, I just want to say thank you so much for making the summer such a treat.

Thank you, John.

Same thing.

Really appreciate it.

It's been a lot of fun.

You can go hear Joel, as they say, play at the Pentago at Inn Tuesday nights through the end of September.

Jesse Thorne, what did you think?

Do you agree or disagree with my ruling?

I agree entirely with your ruling.

And I wanted to add about that case that came up a few weeks ago that

I think that one of the most important

things for a person with privilege to learn about their own privilege is that their own experience is not universally applicable.

Men who have many forms of power in our culture, economic power,

often physical power, cultural, hegemonic power, don't have the same experience as women.

And so, in situations like that,

where if you are a man like you or me, John, and you don't immediately understand or recognize the feelings that a woman is having in a certain situation, I think that a good way to move forward is to listen and presume that what feedback you are getting is coming in good faith and

not start a fight about it.

Huzzah to that

and huzzah to Maine.

I don't know why I'm huzzahing.

It's not a Renfair,

but it is a little old-timey.

But I am getting ready to go back to the future

New York City.

And I just want to say again, thank you, Maine, for having me.

And thank you, Jesse, for as always for being such a great bailiff.

And I guess we'll see you next time on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast, New York City Edition.

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